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View Full Version : Had Kobe been draft by the Spurs?



JasonJohnHorn
04-12-2016, 09:25 PM
Other than obviously winning more championships, how do you think being drafted by the Spurs would have impacted Kobe as a player?

A lot of people criticize him for playing hero-ball, but at the same time, PJax and others have noted that he had a drive to win, while Shaq was a bit of a clown in the locker room.

Had Kobe been mentored by the likes of DRob instead of Shaq, and grew as a player with a consummate professional like Duncan, and a team-first coach like Pop, would Kobe have developed differently? Would he have put up circus shots like he did early in LAL and alienate teammates? Or would he have developed differently?


This isn't meant to be so much a conversation about stats and rings, but more so a conversation about the kind of game Kobe played, and the kind of relationship he would have had with teammates. I'm just curious as to how much having Shaq as a 'mentor' vs. DRob/Duncan as a teammate/mentor would influence how he played and how he has been perceived.


Thoughts?

Jamiecballer
04-12-2016, 09:28 PM
Jordan

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Jamiecballer
04-12-2016, 09:28 PM
Or traded in short order.

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Bostonjorge
04-12-2016, 10:06 PM
8 titles and 8 final MVP's

Chronz
04-12-2016, 10:09 PM
Does the coach get him traded the way Phil Jackson tried? Which of the 2 coaches strikes you as more forgiving? Developing with DRob instead of Shaq would be a definite down grade as DRob was a ***** who shied away from contact while Shaq was a pure beast.

Chronz
04-12-2016, 10:12 PM
8 titles and 8 final MVP's
That makes zero sense. Stop trolling

jerellh528
04-12-2016, 10:13 PM
Popovich as kobes developmental coach and mentor would've been interesting to see. But there's zero telling what woulda, coulda happened or how he would've been different as a player

Bostonjorge
04-12-2016, 10:26 PM
That makes zero sense. Stop trolling

How's is it trolling? Spurs with Kobe become a super team. Every year Spurs had a chance at a title and Kobe puts them over the hump.

Depending who shaq teams up with no other team is stopping them.

slaker619
04-12-2016, 10:57 PM
I think Pop would trade him if he couldn't get through to him

Chronz
04-12-2016, 11:27 PM
How's is it trolling? Spurs with Kobe become a super team. Every year Spurs had a chance at a title and Kobe puts them over the hump.

Depending who shaq teams up with no other team is stopping them.
Hows he winning BOTH more chips and fmvp? That's utterly impossible and almost nothing you said was true.

FOXHOUND
04-12-2016, 11:32 PM
Hows he winning BOTH more chips and fmvp? That's utterly impossible and almost nothing you said was true.

Well considering Kobe knocked the Spurs out of the playoffs a good amount, it's safe to say that having him would have prevented that lol. I think Kobe and Duncan would have been a perfect pair. Kobe hated that Shaq was lazy and Duncan doesn't care about the limelight.

However, Duncan was a better player than Kobe earlier in their careers so I don't see the argument that Kobe would win every Finals MVP. But Parker and Leonard won over Duncan, and Ginobili had a solid case in 05, so really it's not absurd to think that Kobe would win like 6 of the 8 Finals MVP's in this hypothetical lol.

Scoots
04-13-2016, 12:14 AM
He would have been traded to the Lakers as he refused to play for any other team.

JasonJohnHorn
04-13-2016, 02:55 AM
He would have been traded to the Lakers as he refused to play for any other team.

I thought he had disputed that claim. He's mocked Charlotte for trading him, saying they could have build a champion around him. Had he forced that trade, it seems like he wouldn't be in a position to mock them.

And he busted his @$$ off in the workouts because he wanted to be draft in the top-five. Left a lot of teams with a good impression. Most said he was the best or second best SG in the draft (behind Jerry Stackhouse; which was high praise considering the Stackhouse was an NBA ready SG with college experience).

I heard he had wanted to be drafted by Philly (home town), or a contender, or somebody who could soon be a contender.

It's hard to know... but had the Spurs worked out a deal for him, it would have been ideal for both parties. He'd have been in line for ROY instead of riding the pine like he did in LAL, as SAS saw DRob go down with injury. They brought Nique in that year just to entertain the fans during a losing season, but Kobe could have done that himself, and still lost enough games to get them the first pick, given how low his efficiency was that year.


But again... this thread was more to generate a conversation about how the players you play with can shape your growth. Were he to play alongside DRob and Duncan, who shared his work ethic and desire to win, and who carried a more professional demeanour, as opposed to the friendly giant/clown persona that Shaq had, where he didn't develop a full skill set, and though he worked hard, relied more on his size, would Kobe have developed different relationships with those around him? And would he have in turn become a different kind of player?

I'm sure being drafted by or traded to a team that was one win shy of 60 the year before and had made it out of the first round 3 out of the previous 4 seasons would have been appealing to Kobe.

More-Than-Most
04-13-2016, 03:56 AM
It would have been the ideal fit in my opinion. This dudes work ethic is insane.... Pop would have kept him shackled in terms of how he acts on and off the court all while helping further his game even more.... He would have played next to a tim duncan who might not be as dominant as shaq but who was just as good or better all while having the personality that would have meshed better with a Kobe bryant and thus he would have never undermined the team like he did.... Had Kobe been with that spurs team with a duncan I think he probably wins 6 plus championships all while being even more efficient... This is all speculation but Kobe was actually a great defender early on in his career... Had he been with pop he would have remained that way longer all while being a smarter basketball player to go along with that 2nd to none work ethic and a ridiculous team around him.

kdspurman
04-13-2016, 09:47 AM
Does the coach get him traded the way Phil Jackson tried? Which of the 2 coaches strikes you as more forgiving? Developing with DRob instead of Shaq would be a definite down grade as DRob was a ***** who shied away from contact while Shaq was a pure beast.

Bit of a stretch there, tbh

Stinkyoutsider
04-13-2016, 10:49 AM
If I remember correctly, I think Eddie Jones was still with the Lakers when Kobe came to the team? Eddie Jones was a great pro and had the kind of personality to show Kobe how to be a pro. I can't remember but I also think Ceballos was with the team at the time. He was a very good pro too. Kobe could learn the ropes from those 2 guys alone. Forgot the team also had Elden Campbell and Byron Scott. I'm sure Kobe leaned on Byron Scott for guidance.

I think that Kobe could have learned a lot from David Robinson. No disrespect to Tim but I believe he was a young player too and needed to have a mentor. We all know how driven Kobe was to be successful and to win and what better player to be around than the Admiral.

Kobe was in a good situation either way imo. He was so driven to succeed (kind of stubborn too lol) that I believe he would have sought out a mentor if it wasn't Shaq. And, those 2 couldn't get along anyways so I'm sure Kobe didn't look to Shaq for guidance too often.

RaiderLakersA's
04-13-2016, 11:04 AM
Kobe was young and malleable. Sure, he wanted to be great, but he didn't start bucking the system until he saw how the "leadership" operated in Shaq, who relied 1000% on his God-given ability as opposed to working and training to be the best. Kobe would have thrived in a system like Pop's for that very reason...because above all else, Pop expects you to do the work and not glide by on natural talent. I think Kobe, Duncan and Pop would definitely have challenged the Celtics and Lakers for the number of overall titles in a 20 year period. I think they could have managed 10 titles at least.

RaiderLakersA's
04-13-2016, 11:05 AM
If I remember correctly, I think Eddie Jones was still with the Lakers when Kobe came to the team? Eddie Jones was a great pro and had the kind of personality to show Kobe how to be a pro. I can't remember but I also think Ceballos was with the team at the time. He was a very good pro too. Kobe could learn the ropes from those 2 guys alone. Forgot the team also had Elden Campbell and Byron Scott. I'm sure Kobe leaned on Byron Scott for guidance.

I think that Kobe could have learned a lot from David Robinson. No disrespect to Tim but I believe he was a young player too and needed to have a mentor. We all know how driven Kobe was to be successful and to win and what better player to be around than the Admiral.

Kobe was in a good situation either way imo. He was so driven to succeed (kind of stubborn too lol) that I believe he would have sought out a mentor if it wasn't Shaq. And, those 2 couldn't get along anyways so I'm sure Kobe didn't look to Shaq for guidance too often.

Eddie Jones and Nick Van Exel were the starting guards when Kobe was acquired by the Lakers.

KnicksorBust
04-13-2016, 02:40 PM
Other than obviously winning more championships, how do you think being drafted by the Spurs would have impacted Kobe as a player?

A lot of people criticize him for playing hero-ball, but at the same time, PJax and others have noted that he had a drive to win, while Shaq was a bit of a clown in the locker room.

Had Kobe been mentored by the likes of DRob instead of Shaq, and grew as a player with a consummate professional like Duncan, and a team-first coach like Pop, would Kobe have developed differently? Would he have put up circus shots like he did early in LAL and alienate teammates? Or would he have developed differently?


This isn't meant to be so much a conversation about stats and rings, but more so a conversation about the kind of game Kobe played, and the kind of relationship he would have had with teammates. I'm just curious as to how much having Shaq as a 'mentor' vs. DRob/Duncan as a teammate/mentor would influence how he played and how he has been perceived.


Thoughts?

I am firmly in the camp of it would have only made him better. Kobe's drive combined with his disdain for Shaq's work ethic I believe led to him feeling even more entitled to play hero ball the way he did. Duncan's leadership and intelligent play would have jedi mind-tricked Kobe into playing more unselfishly. Plus he never would have had those lost seasons in the mid 2000s where he played with Smush-Walton-Kwame-etc. That was him at his most deadly offensively and those years were wasted. The funny thing to me is I can almost imagine Duncan/Kobe winning 6-7 rings and then a PSD thread "What if Kobe didn't get to play with Duncan and had played with Shaq?" We would probably correctly realize that it would be a dynasty for 3 years until their egos got in the way. :laugh:

With Duncan you don't have that problem. It reminds me of KG/Marbury. That should have been a decade of playoff runs. Titles? Don't know. But runs yes. I have a hard time imagining a teammate that Kobe would respect more than Tim Duncan. The synergy of personalities is surreal. All of it is weaved together under the guidance of Pop. I'd like for someone to find me the player that ruined a Spurs team in the last 20 years. Doesn't exist. Pop knows how to play to his teams strengths. He is doing it again this year! Dominant bigs? Sure slow it down and play elite defense. Then he transformed them into an elite offense for 5-6 years with constant motion and ball movement. Now he's found a way to merge LMA and Kawhi and create a new foundation that will continue his legacy. I'm having a hard time believing he couldn't coach a top 5 talent/worker like Kobe. I could see those two up at 3am drinking wine and watching film and loving every second. I see them more as kindred spirits than Kobe and Phil.

Long story short... haha... I think it works and works better than Kobe/Shaq ever did. Kobe reaches an even higher level of play and the Spurs are even more successful than they were without him.

basch152
04-13-2016, 02:58 PM
Well, you have a spurs team LIKELY(not guaranteed to be better) than they already were, and whose main competition in LA wouldn't have been as good.

It's possible they win every championship from 97 to 2005 at least, if not 2009.

I mean at some point you have a team with parker, manu, kobe, duncan, and robinson on it.

Scoots
04-13-2016, 04:14 PM
IIRC, Arn Tellem said well before the draft that Kobe wouldn't play for anyone other than the Lakers and Jerry West sort of confirmed it years later and worked out the trade days before the draft. Arn, IIRC, didn't let Kobe work out for Charlotte or New Jersey I think. But I'm not going to try to find all those old stories on the net now.

When it's in nobody's best interest to refute what a superstar says I guess they can re-write history.

Had Kobe STAYED on the Spurs for that tanking season they may have been greater, but they may have been worse. They may have won too many games and not had the #1 pick to use on Duncan, and that alone would have massively changed the Spurs future. Kobe is Kobe and he and Timmy/Pop may have clashed in some fundamental way that brought the whole thing down.

Chronz
04-13-2016, 05:37 PM
Lol some of you guys really think Kobe didn't start bucking the system until he experienced shaq? You're talking about the guy who was manufacturing his brand/image before even entering the league. Having a hard time imagining him allowing his handlers guide him to a small market like san Antonio. So how do they acquire Kobe? The best scenario is Lakers allowing Phil to do what he wanted when he found Kobe uncouchable several years whilst winning titles. Sorry but if the Zen master and a group of vets had a hard time reigning Kobe in, i don't see the spurs doing any better. People underrate just how serious shaq and Kobe were about winning. Shaq wasn't this lazy slob throughout the entirety of his career.
They grew apart but that could've happened to anyone who challenged Kobe. Kobe would've been incensed with the "can he win without Duncan" talk just as much as the Shaq talk did. You guys really don't know Kobe if you think he was this malleable youngster, dude had a blue print from day one and was driven to execute it.

Kobe prolly ditches SA first chance he gets and signs with his favorite team. Hell, Duncan was VERY close to leaving them for Orlando if not for a last second conversation with Drob/Pop and that's a much greater team player than Kobe and imo, a man with superior morals

Chronz
04-13-2016, 05:39 PM
IIRC, Arn Tellem said well before the draft that Kobe wouldn't play for anyone other than the Lakers and Jerry West sort of confirmed it years later and worked out the trade days before the draft. Arn, IIRC, didn't let Kobe work out for Charlotte or New Jersey I think. But I'm not going to try to find all those old stories on the net now.

When it's in nobody's best interest to refute what a superstar says I guess they can re-write history.

Had Kobe STAYED on the Spurs for that tanking season they may have been greater, but they may have been worse. They may have won too many games and not had the #1 pick to use on Duncan, and that alone would have massively changed the Spurs future. Kobe is Kobe and he and Timmy/Pop may have clashed in some fundamental way that brought the whole thing down.

Yeah we need more context for this hypothetical. How do they acquire him, when does he join, how does LA build it's empire? Shaq doesn't go his entire career without a few chips

Ps kobe didn't demand la, he demanded a large market to boost his brand

Quinnsanity
04-14-2016, 05:40 AM
I just wrote about this yesterday, conveniently enough.

I actually think if Kobe would've gone to college for a year, this would've happened. I think if Kobe would've gone to Duke for a year, there wouldn't have been any secrets, everyone would've known how good he was going to be, and he would've brought his draft stock to roughly Duncan's level and, because San Antonio already had Robinson, would've decided to take Kobe as a better fit next to him.

ewing
04-14-2016, 05:44 AM
he would have been great.