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View Full Version : Are 76ers setting new record for losing?



kobe4thewinbang
04-12-2016, 03:50 PM
I mean, they're freakin' 10-70 right now. Has a team done worse than that? They have 10 wins. 10.

IndyRealist
04-12-2016, 03:51 PM
In the lockout years. Otherwise I think it's 12.

Edit: full year is 11. 93 Mavs and 98 Nuggets.
Edit: 9 in 73.

JPS
04-12-2016, 03:55 PM
72 6ers went 9-73. They already set the record.

5ass
04-12-2016, 03:55 PM
They were just able to avoid the worst record for an 82 game season. That record is 9-73, and set in 1973 by... the Philadelphia 76ers.

ewing
04-12-2016, 03:56 PM
actually they are setting records for acquiring assets

JAZZNC
04-12-2016, 04:05 PM
Assets.....that's all I keep hearing some Sixers fans say. Let me know when any of those assets amount to anything. They have been an atrocity for 3 years. I'd like to see the record for most losses in a 3yr span. I'm sure they are way ahead (or behind) any other franchise for that kinda time span. They have been ran into the ground by a guy who thought he was smarter than the room and was just an idiot. But I guess we have to wait and see what they can get for their "assets". They aren't getting any free agent to go there other than middling players they will overpay. Some of their fans think they are in a good position....

Bring The Heat
04-12-2016, 04:07 PM
How long has this team been in the lottery now?! had top 5 draft picks and been at the very bottom of the East? It's incredible that they are still this BAD.. You would think with so many high draft picks they would improve but they seem to compete for the worst record the past 3-4 years.This organization is so poorly ran its sad.. Sad for the fans and the city..

Vee-Rex
04-12-2016, 04:08 PM
I'd love for the 76ers and Lakers to have a 7-game series during the playoffs. The rivalry between the fans would make it entertaining.

BallDontLie
04-12-2016, 04:16 PM
How long has this team been in the lottery now?! had top 5 draft picks and been at the very bottom of the East? It's incredible that they are still this BAD.. You would think with so many high draft picks they would improve but they seem to compete for the worst record the past 3-4 years.This organization is so poorly ran its sad.. Sad for the fans and the city..

lol 4 years in a row in the lotto (3 in the top 5) and 5 years removed from a 7 game EC Semis series. plenty more teams have been much, much worse. For example its been 12 years since Minny made the playoffs, 10 for the Kings, and 6 for the suns. but yea the Sixers are the A-holes bcuz they dont want to be like a team like the Jazz fighting for the 8 seed to get swept ever year.

warfelg
04-12-2016, 04:19 PM
Don't feel bad for us. We're happy.

Remember the further the bow pulls you back the higher the arrow can go.

valade16
04-12-2016, 04:20 PM
They 76ers are 47-197 the last 3 seasons, and every season has been worse than the last (19 wins, then 18, then 10).

Scoots
04-12-2016, 04:29 PM
actually they are setting records for acquiring assets

You are on fire today! :)

Scoots
04-12-2016, 04:31 PM
Don't feel bad for us. We're happy.

Remember the further the bow pulls you back the higher the arrow can go.

Unless it snaps and your owner shoots himself in the foot :)

warfelg
04-12-2016, 04:34 PM
Unless it snaps and your owner shoots himself in the foot :)

Or the head :P haha.

Tony_Starks
04-12-2016, 04:47 PM
Well since the goal was to lose as tremendously as possible I'd say they are right on point.

Also being that we contributed one of the few wins they got out of this unholy abomination I think it should be illegal for a Laker fan to start this thread.

Oh we can still laugh, just not too hard.

IndyRealist
04-12-2016, 04:53 PM
Watch them turn those assets into a star after some team whiffs on Durant and decides to blow it up at the deadline. Then they get lucky on one pick and suddenly they're in the playoffs with tons of cap space and look really attractive to free agents. Colangelo will win exec of the year when Hinkie really made it happen.

warfelg
04-12-2016, 05:13 PM
Watch them turn those assets into a star after some team whiffs on Durant and decides to blow it up at the deadline. Then they get lucky on one pick and suddenly they're in the playoffs with tons of cap space and look really attractive to free agents. Colangelo will win exec of the year when Hinkie really made it happen.

This is what pretty much what all of us fans expect.

PhillyFaninLA
04-12-2016, 05:41 PM
Stay classy Laker fans....way to represent your fan base....and this isn't a classless troll topic at all...I mean your mother must be so proud...you are trolling people on the internet, can't get classier than that, I hope most other Laker fans understand how you make all of them look

DODGERS&LAKERS
04-12-2016, 06:00 PM
Dude, we only have 16!?!?! Why bait when we were almost just as bad?

5ass
04-12-2016, 06:10 PM
Watch them turn those assets into a star after some team whiffs on Durant and decides to blow it up at the deadline. Then they get lucky on one pick and suddenly they're in the playoffs with tons of cap space and look really attractive to free agents. Colangelo will win exec of the year when Hinkie really made it happen.
And if he doesn't land that star, or lucky pick, what happens? Tank again next year?

IndyRealist
04-12-2016, 06:46 PM
And if he doesn't land that star, or lucky pick, what happens? Tank again next year?

I'm guessing about the same as if they signed a bunch of high priced, long term contracts and the players didn't get along. Or one got injured. Or the players regress. Or the coach can't acclimate the players to the system. Or any of a thousand simply unlucky occurences.

While we're here, can we talk about how tanking is supposedly worse than it's ever been, but the worst team is from 1973, prior to the lottery?

beasted86
04-12-2016, 07:05 PM
Watch them turn those assets into a star after some team whiffs on Durant and decides to blow it up at the deadline. Then they get lucky on one pick and suddenly they're in the playoffs with tons of cap space and look really attractive to free agents. Colangelo will win exec of the year when Hinkie really made it happen.

Firstly, what team is giving up a game changer for what the Sixers have? I remember in another thread someone mentioned a name like Jimmy Butler, a guy who didn't lead his team to the playoffs this year with much better surrounding players. So what caliber player are you talking about? At least 2-3 examples would be nice...because ultimately I feel like you're actually talking about Butler, Hayward, Teague caliber guys who are B or C grade stars that can't turn a 10 win team into a playoff squad alone. We're not talking about Westbrook or Griffin types, are we?

Secondly, overall I feel like fans are living in some fantasy world as to what it takes to contend year in year out, and what it even takes to build up a franchise from a 10 win team. Too many believe every story has a Cinderella finish. I mean, how do you evaluate young talents due for extensions? IE: Nerlens Noel this year October, 6 months from now will be negotiating. Do you extend him or let him hit free agency when the cap rises to $107M and he'll have multiple offers from teams with excess cap space? How on Earth do you negotiate with a guy when your team won 10 games? If you do extend him whatever contract you gave him will be uninsured for knee injury making him difficult to trade if he doesn't pan out. Same thing they will face with Embiid if he ever plays.

beasted86
04-12-2016, 07:08 PM
actually they are setting records for acquiring assets
Assets

STRIKERC
04-12-2016, 08:48 PM
Firstly, what team is giving up a game changer for what the Sixers have? I remember in another thread someone mentioned a name like Jimmy Butler, a guy who didn't lead his team to the playoffs this year with much better surrounding players. So what caliber player are you talking about? At least 2-3 examples would be nice...because ultimately I feel like you're actually talking about Butler, Hayward, Teague caliber guys who are B or C grade stars that can't turn a 10 win team into a playoff squad alone. We're not talking about Westbrook or Griffin types, are we?

Secondly, overall I feel like fans are living in some fantasy world as to what it takes to contend year in year out, and what it even takes to build up a franchise from a 10 win team. Too many believe every story has a Cinderella finish. I mean, how do you evaluate young talents due for extensions? IE: Nerlens Noel this year October, 6 months from now will be negotiating. Do you extend him or let him hit free agency when the cap rises to $107M and he'll have multiple offers from teams with excess cap space? How on Earth do you negotiate with a guy when your team won 10 games? If you do extend him whatever contract you gave him will be uninsured for knee injury making him difficult to trade if he doesn't pan out. Same thing they will face with Embiid if he ever plays.

You seem a little too worried about what Sixers fans believe.
People who say you can't achieve something are usually afraid of your success.

Perhaps you should worry about your team and lets Sixers fan live in their fantasy world.
Too many people are scared of the Sixers process actually working. You are one of them.

mrblisterdundee
04-12-2016, 09:08 PM
Even though it was in a lockout year, the Charlotte Bobcats had the lowest winning percentage ever, with a record of 7-59. So I would say it's a tight race between them and the 1973 '76ers. Philadelphia now has the second- and third-worst winning percentage ever.
And yeah; Hinkie did a terrible job of picking assets. He took the safe route on Okafor and missed out on a great front court rotation in Porzingis and Noel.

IndyRealist
04-12-2016, 09:27 PM
Blah blah blah

Russell Westbrook, Blake Griffin, Chris Paul, Kyle Lowry, Jimmy Butler, etc.

The guy they get doesn't have to turn a 10 win team into a playoff team. He has to turn the team Philly spends all their money on into a playoff team, because Philly has the FLEXIBILITY to buy MLE free agents and cut contracts as necessary. The reason they've been at the bottom every year is because they haven't landed the star yet, so they haven't spent the money on a roster yet. And it's kind of silly to pick on Butler when he's carrying a hobbled Derrick Rose and has a new coach he's butting heads with. Chicago's old and need to reset. That could be with Butler, that could be with Okafor, Robert Covington, and multiple picks. That's what Philly has been counting on. They're simply more patient than you, and if the NBA hadn't interfered we might see it play out. People are going to spend a ton of money this summer, and a lot of teams are going to cap out and still not be contenders. Big salary players will get moved.

Secondly, no one said, "the plan will have you go from 10 wins to contending" as far as I know. I certainly never said that. The plan got Harden to Houston, it didn't make them contenders. The point is to land a star and have the flexibility to build a team around him, and then become an attractive destination for free agents with the assets and flexibility to bring in stars.

ewing
04-12-2016, 09:45 PM
Assets

blah blah blah

ewing
04-12-2016, 09:47 PM
You seem a little too worried about what Sixers fans believe.
People who say you can't achieve something are usually afraid of your success.

Perhaps you should worry about your team and lets Sixers fan live in their fantasy world.
Too many people are scared of the Sixers process actually working. You are one of them.

yeah there just jealous

warfelg
04-12-2016, 09:49 PM
yeah there just jealous

They're**

ewing
04-12-2016, 09:50 PM
They're**

thanks

FOXHOUND
04-12-2016, 09:59 PM
Watch them turn those assets into a star after some team whiffs on Durant and decides to blow it up at the deadline. Then they get lucky on one pick and suddenly they're in the playoffs with tons of cap space and look really attractive to free agents. Colangelo will win exec of the year when Hinkie really made it happen.

False, because Hinkie is not there making decisions any longer. Just because he put the team in a position to do something with cap space and simply just drafting high every year doesn't mean he would have been able to capitalize on those assets.

For example, he drafted Embiid one pick ahead of Aaron Gordon despite already having Noel. Was that the right call? He drafted Okafor one pick ahead of Porzingis despite already having Noel and Embiid. He drafted Saric one pick ahead of LaVine despite having Noel, Embiid and Okafor.

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest that he knows what he's doing in terms of building an actual basketball team or that he would draft or sign the right players. All he proved was that he could lose a lot and make trades to acquire draft picks.

Bring The Heat
04-12-2016, 10:24 PM
reminds me of the Timberwolves when they just kept drafting guards except Sixers keep drafting centers every year lol (noel, embiid, okafor) .... I mean thats just bad decision making

basketballkitty
04-12-2016, 10:26 PM
reminds me of the Timberwolves when they just kept drafting guards except Sixers keep drafting centers every year lol (noel, embiid, okafor) .... I mean thats just bad decision making


Taking the best talent is never a bad decision. You think if they had it to do over again that the Trailblazers would take Sam Bowie over MJ ???

beasted86
04-13-2016, 12:32 AM
Russell Westbrook, Blake Griffin, Chris Paul, Kyle Lowry, Jimmy Butler, etc.

The guy they get doesn't have to turn a 10 win team into a playoff team. He has to turn the team Philly spends all their money on into a playoff team, because Philly has the FLEXIBILITY to buy MLE free agents and cut contracts as necessary. The reason they've been at the bottom every year is because they haven't landed the star yet, so they haven't spent the money on a roster yet. And it's kind of silly to pick on Butler when he's carrying a hobbled Derrick Rose and has a new coach he's butting heads with. Chicago's old and need to reset. That could be with Butler, that could be with Okafor, Robert Covington, and multiple picks. That's what Philly has been counting on. They're simply more patient than you, and if the NBA hadn't interfered we might see it play out. People are going to spend a ton of money this summer, and a lot of teams are going to cap out and still not be contenders. Big salary players will get moved.

Secondly, no one said, "the plan will have you go from 10 wins to contending" as far as I know. I certainly never said that. The plan got Harden to Houston, it didn't make them contenders. The point is to land a star and have the flexibility to build a team around him, and then become an attractive destination for free agents with the assets and flexibility to bring in stars.

I specifically picked those 2 players (Westbrook and Griffin) because I thought there's no way you could use them as examples since they will be expiring next season, and you used them anyway. LOL! Why would the Sixers trade rookies or picks for guys on 1 year contracts/ETO? At that, you include a 3rd mention in Chris Paul who will be 31 who will also be an expiring ETO contract. That's more than likely the worst trade idea I've heard yet. Those guys will not resign with a 10 win team or whatever they improve them to.

Secondly, if you set in motion a plan to be this bad for this long with no set timetable for the rebuild to be complete, the purpose better be contending and long term sustained playoff trips. If there is the possibility to tank for 8 years only to come out of it with 2 years of 5th seed playoff appearances like the Wizards then back to the lottery, then I can't possibly understand why any fan would back this type of rebuild.

JasonJohnHorn
04-13-2016, 02:44 AM
They won't have the record for losingest season ever (which they already own), but they might have very well put together the worst 3-year stretch in the history of the game.

If you combined their win from the last three seasons, they would only have enough wins to get the 8th seed in the West last year. And if you combine any two of their last three seasons, they wouldn't have enough wins to make the playoffs in either conference.


That is pretty bad. I'm not sure what the worst 3-year stretch is, but they've gotta be up there.

basketballkitty
04-13-2016, 03:06 AM
Dallas Mavs hold the worst 3 straight seasons record at 46...Sixers will be close to that with 47, or 48 if they win their last game. But Dallas is the worst.

BallDontLie
04-13-2016, 08:58 AM
Even though it was in a lockout year, the Charlotte Bobcats had the lowest winning percentage ever, with a record of 7-59. So I would say it's a tight race between them and the 1973 '76ers. Philadelphia now has the second- and third-worst winning percentage ever.
And yeah; Hinkie did a terrible job of picking assets. He took the safe route on Okafor and missed out on a great front court rotation in Porzingis and Noel.

please elaborate. maybe go look at everything that has been acquired over the last 3 years first.

BallDontLie
04-13-2016, 09:00 AM
Russell Westbrook, Blake Griffin, Chris Paul, Kyle Lowry, Jimmy Butler, etc.

The guy they get doesn't have to turn a 10 win team into a playoff team. He has to turn the team Philly spends all their money on into a playoff team, because Philly has the FLEXIBILITY to buy MLE free agents and cut contracts as necessary. The reason they've been at the bottom every year is because they haven't landed the star yet, so they haven't spent the money on a roster yet. And it's kind of silly to pick on Butler when he's carrying a hobbled Derrick Rose and has a new coach he's butting heads with. Chicago's old and need to reset. That could be with Butler, that could be with Okafor, Robert Covington, and multiple picks. That's what Philly has been counting on. They're simply more patient than you, and if the NBA hadn't interfered we might see it play out. People are going to spend a ton of money this summer, and a lot of teams are going to cap out and still not be contenders. Big salary players will get moved.

Secondly, no one said, "the plan will have you go from 10 wins to contending" as far as I know. I certainly never said that. The plan got Harden to Houston, it didn't make them contenders. The point is to land a star and have the flexibility to build a team around him, and then become an attractive destination for free agents with the assets and flexibility to bring in stars.

logic.

nice.

Vinylman
04-13-2016, 10:06 AM
And if he doesn't land that star, or lucky pick, what happens? Tank again next year?

There is no way they tank next year... Colangelo is going to get real aggressive and sign a bunch of veterans not matter what happens in the draft or trades...

Its the narrative he wants to set... he will win 28 games next year and be a hero ... which is a joke

IndyRealist
04-13-2016, 11:04 AM
I specifically picked those 2 players (Westbrook and Griffin) because I thought there's no way you could use them as examples since they will be expiring next season, and you used them anyway. LOL! Why would the Sixers trade rookies or picks for guys on 1 year contracts/ETO? At that, you include a 3rd mention in Chris Paul who will be 31 who will also be an expiring ETO contract. That's more than likely the worst trade idea I've heard yet. Those guys will not resign with a 10 win team or whatever they improve them to.

Secondly, if you set in motion a plan to be this bad for this long with no set timetable for the rebuild to be complete, the purpose better be contending and long term sustained playoff trips. If there is the possibility to tank for 8 years only to come out of it with 2 years of 5th seed playoff appearances like the Wizards then back to the lottery, then I can't possibly understand why any fan would back this type of rebuild.

Teams can and do trade picks and players for stars on the last year of their deals. They also do sign and trades once those deals expire.

I didn't even mention what might get traded for Chris Paul, so I have no idea why you think it's the worst trade ever.

Without insider knowledge, the plan is "how to land a star without choking your cap and draining all your assets". Then you're free to fill the roster and pursue free agent stars, since you already have one. It seems pretty open ended and simple, so I don't know why you don't get it.

Do you ever add anything to a conversation, or just go "LOL that's stupid" and call it a day?

Stinkyoutsider
04-13-2016, 11:08 AM
Lucky this isn't professional soccer lol. The 6ers would be finding themselves out of the NBA until they got promoted again...

beasted86
04-13-2016, 12:06 PM
Teams can and do trade picks and players for stars on the last year of their deals. They also do sign and trades once those deals expire.

I didn't even mention what might get traded for Chris Paul, so I have no idea why you think it's the worst trade ever.

Without insider knowledge, the plan is "how to land a star without choking your cap and draining all your assets". Then you're free to fill the roster and pursue free agent stars, since you already have one. It seems pretty open ended and simple, so I don't know why you don't get it.

Do you ever add anything to a conversation, or just go "LOL that's stupid" and call it a day?

What else do you want me to say?

You are the one who presented the scenario that teams will miss out on this summer's free agency and will be looking to trade their stars for the Sixers assets. I asked for 2-3 decent examples of team overhauling-type superstars. You reply with Russell Westbrook who will be on an expiring contract, and Blake Griffin and Chris Paul who both have ETOs which makes them essentially expiring contracts also.

Why would a rebuilding team nowhere near the playoffs trade for these guys on expiring contracts? Why would A list all-stars in their prime want to leave their contending team and stay in Philly once traded there?

Do you think I really need examples of what the 76ers would need to give up for one of these superstar players? Or are you saying these guys will be salary dumped by their team?

I mean it's very much just common sense. It's overall very much LOL-worthy logic.

The only path right nowfor Philly to get an A list star is to keep on their path to draft one, or to trade for a sleeper who suddenly explodes and improves a lot. Because of the cap jump, temporarily there won't be many Harden-like situations since teams (except maybe the Cavs) won't be worrying about the luxury for the next 2 years. It's just one of those wrong place, wrong time for those types of trades.

mudvayne387
04-13-2016, 12:51 PM
Don't feel bad for us. We're happy.

Remember the further the bow pulls you back the higher the arrow can go.

Also the greater the chance that the string snaps and pokes your eye out.

IndyRealist
04-13-2016, 02:04 PM
What else do you want me to say?

You are the one who presented the scenario that teams will miss out on this summer's free agency and will be looking to trade their stars for the Sixers assets. I asked for 2-3 decent examples of team overhauling-type superstars. You reply with Russell Westbrook who will be on an expiring contract, and Blake Griffin and Chris Paul who both have ETOs which makes them essentially expiring contracts also.

Why would a rebuilding team nowhere near the playoffs trade for these guys on expiring contracts? Why would A list all-stars in their prime want to leave their contending team and stay in Philly once traded there?

Do you think I really need examples of what the 76ers would need to give up for one of these superstar players? Or are you saying these guys will be salary dumped by their team?

I mean it's very much just common sense. It's overall very much LOL-worthy logic.

The only path right nowfor Philly to get an A list star is to keep on their path to draft one, or to trade for a sleeper who suddenly explodes and improves a lot. Because of the cap jump, temporarily there won't be many Harden-like situations since teams (except maybe the Cavs) won't be worrying about the luxury for the next 2 years. It's just one of those wrong place, wrong time for those types of trades.
You make the assumption that this 10 win team will be the team going forward, which is the basis of virtually every statement you made. The whole point is to be flexible and not give out big, long term contracts until you've landed a star. As soon as they have that guy, they'll flip almost the entire roster except a few key guys and unload most of their picks to bring in a squad, and be an attractive free agent destination going forward.

KnicksorBust
04-13-2016, 02:20 PM
It is going to be nice for the next GM to take over a team with tons of young assets, cap space, and a top lottery pick. Good thing they had such a great previous GM.

BallDontLie
04-13-2016, 02:22 PM
Lucky this isn't professional soccer lol. The 6ers would be finding themselves out of the NBA until they got promoted again...

oh bcuz in intl soccer only one team gets demoted per league...

Tony_Starks
04-13-2016, 02:55 PM
McConnell had just finished a recent game with the Philadelphia 76ers when he and his father, a few family members and some friends decided to visit an establishment within walking distance of Wells Fargo Center. T.J. was first to the door when a worker announced there was a $10 cover charge, but free admittance with a 76ers ticket stub. “He played,” said Tim McConnell, pointing at his son. The worker still wanted $10.

“No, you don’t understand. He played in the game,” Tim McConnell tried to reason. No matter. It was $10. Such is the respect these days for a 76ers player. Tonight marks the final game of T.J. McConnell’s rookie season in the NBA. Thursday, he will wake up from the dream. Or nightmare. Or both. – via Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

TJ McConnell, Philadelphia 76ers


http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/nba/2016/04/13/Ex-WPIAL-star-TJ-McConnell-grateful-for-the-NBA-experience-despite-Philadelphia-76ers-ups-and-downs/stories/201604130077

ewing
04-13-2016, 03:05 PM
McConnell had just finished a recent game with the Philadelphia 76ers when he and his father, a few family members and some friends decided to visit an establishment within walking distance of Wells Fargo Center. T.J. was first to the door when a worker announced there was a $10 cover charge, but free admittance with a 76ers ticket stub. “He played,” said Tim McConnell, pointing at his son. The worker still wanted $10.

“No, you don’t understand. He played in the game,” Tim McConnell tried to reason. No matter. It was $10. Such is the respect these days for a 76ers player. Tonight marks the final game of T.J. McConnell’s rookie season in the NBA. Thursday, he will wake up from the dream. Or nightmare. Or both. – via Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

TJ McConnell, Philadelphia 76ers


http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/nba/2016/04/13/Ex-WPIAL-star-TJ-McConnell-grateful-for-the-NBA-experience-despite-Philadelphia-76ers-ups-and-downs/stories/201604130077


"Cleveland? I didn't even know they still had a team"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9kwfDlq_hk

mrblisterdundee
04-13-2016, 05:17 PM
please elaborate. maybe go look at everything that has been acquired over the last 3 years first.

Last year, they take Jahlil Okafor over Kristaps Porzingis — not a total disaster, but still a mistake they're now trying to use as trade bait. In 2014, they take Joel Embiid, who hasn't played a single NBA game in two seasons and could be the next Greg Oden — second mistake and potential disaster until he proves otherwise.
In 2013, they take Nerlens Noel, who misses a season and still generally underwhelms based on his potential and the guys drafted after him, including Giannis, Gobert and McCollum — third mistake. Then they Michael Carter-Williams, a stat-stuffing guard who makes a quarter of his threes, can't even crack 70 percent from the free throw line and whose second team wants to trade him away — fourth mistake.

PhillyFaninLA
04-13-2016, 05:51 PM
Last year, they take Jahlil Okafor over Kristaps Porzingis — not a total disaster, but still a mistake they're now trying to use as trade bait. In 2014, they take Joel Embiid, who hasn't played a single NBA game in two seasons and could be the next Greg Oden — second mistake and potential disaster until he proves otherwise.
In 2013, they take Nerlens Noel, who misses a season and still generally underwhelms based on his potential and the guys drafted after him, including Giannis, Gobert and McCollum — third mistake. Then they Michael Carter-Williams, a stat-stuffing guard who makes a quarter of his threes, can't even crack 70 percent from the free throw line and whose second team wants to trade him away — fourth mistake.

You need to judge moves based on when they where made and not in hindsite....every is 100% right when you base your opinions on what happens after the fact

valade16
04-13-2016, 06:04 PM
You need to judge moves based on when they where made and not in hindsite....every is 100% right when you base your opinions on what happens after the fact

This is absurd. You don't judge the picks based on expectations, you judge picks based on results. By this logic Portland was right in drafting Oden over Durant.

You're confusing understanding of why a pick was made with the evaluation of the pick. I understand why Greg Oden was taken over Durant, at the time it was the consensus move, but it doesn't mean it was the right pick. Obviously it was a terrible pick.

You don't get to go back and say a bad pick was good because at the time you thought the pick would be good. All that means is you were wrong in your assessment...

ewing
04-13-2016, 06:11 PM
This is absurd. You don't judge the picks based on expectations, you judge picks based on results. By this logic Portland was right in drafting Oden over Durant.

You're confusing understanding of why a pick was made with the evaluation of the pick. I understand why Greg Oden was taken over Durant, at the time it was the consensus move, but it doesn't mean it was the right pick. Obviously it was a terrible pick.

You don't get to go back and say a bad pick was good because at the time you thought the pick would be good. All that means is you were wrong in your assessment...

My wife does this. If her rational for doing something was not to **** up on purpose the action wasn't a mistake :shrug:

SeoulBeatz
04-13-2016, 06:16 PM
This is absurd. You don't judge the picks based on expectations, you judge picks based on results. By this logic Portland was right in drafting Oden over Durant.

You're confusing understanding of why a pick was made with the evaluation of the pick. I understand why Greg Oden was taken over Durant, at the time it was the consensus move, but it doesn't mean it was the right pick. Obviously it was a terrible pick.

You don't get to go back and say a bad pick was good because at the time you thought the pick would be good. All that means is you were wrong in your assessment...

He could have worded it better, but I think the gist of what PhilyFaninLA was saying is that hindsight is 20/20.

At the time of these moves, they were the right choices to make. I don't recall anyone being up in arms when we picked Embiid over Aaron Gordon at #3. Nor do I remember much of a fuss when we picked Okafor over KP. I do recall people questioning how Okafor would fit, but he was BPA at #3 (once again, at the time of the draft). If anyone had KP higher than Oak on their big boards, well, kudos to you.

Tony_Starks
04-13-2016, 06:19 PM
"Cleveland? I didn't even know they still had a team"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9kwfDlq_hk

Lol man you can't even make this stuff up.

"That'll be 10 bucks unless you have a ticket stub"

Wait, my son actually PLAYED in the game

"OH....that'll be 10 bucks!"

mrblisterdundee
04-13-2016, 06:33 PM
You need to judge moves based on when they where made and not in hindsite....every is 100% right when you base your opinions on what happens after the fact

I'm completely judging the moves based on hindsight. You draft a player because you think they'll be good for years to come. If hindsight is 20/20, that means it gives you the best look at how hood the moves were. And in hindsight, Philly's recent draft choices have been mistakes.

kobe4thewinbang
04-13-2016, 07:29 PM
Dude, we only have 16!?!?! Why bait when we were almost just as bad?Yeah, but the Lakers are in the western conference.

warfelg
04-13-2016, 07:36 PM
McConnell had just finished a recent game with the Philadelphia 76ers when he and his father, a few family members and some friends decided to visit an establishment within walking distance of Wells Fargo Center. T.J. was first to the door when a worker announced there was a $10 cover charge, but free admittance with a 76ers ticket stub. “He played,” said Tim McConnell, pointing at his son. The worker still wanted $10.

“No, you don’t understand. He played in the game,” Tim McConnell tried to reason. No matter. It was $10. Such is the respect these days for a 76ers player. Tonight marks the final game of T.J. McConnell’s rookie season in the NBA. Thursday, he will wake up from the dream. Or nightmare. Or both. – via Pittsburgh Post-Gazette

TJ McConnell, Philadelphia 76ers


http://www.post-gazette.com/sports/nba/2016/04/13/Ex-WPIAL-star-TJ-McConnell-grateful-for-the-NBA-experience-despite-Philadelphia-76ers-ups-and-downs/stories/201604130077

Not really sure how that reflects poorly on us. Xfinity Live! is owned by Comcast, who have nothing to do with the Sixers. If anything it shows the tone deafness of the operators of Xfinity Live! to not realize that it's a "season wrap" celebration for fans of the Sixers and a Sixers player wants to attend.

Comcast is just a bunch of money grubbing whores and if you never deal with them then count yourself as blessed.

PhillyFaninLA
04-14-2016, 05:57 AM
This is absurd. You don't judge the picks based on expectations, you judge picks based on results. By this logic Portland was right in drafting Oden over Durant.

You're confusing understanding of why a pick was made with the evaluation of the pick. I understand why Greg Oden was taken over Durant, at the time it was the consensus move, but it doesn't mean it was the right pick. Obviously it was a terrible pick.

You don't get to go back and say a bad pick was good because at the time you thought the pick would be good. All that means is you were wrong in your assessment...

You judge deals based on information that was available at that time and that time only....you can say it didn't work out, or this player was a best, but you can't say that it was a bad decision at the time because at the time Oden wasn't a bad choice over Durant...either one could have went number 1, only by looking back and seeing how things played out can you say if worked, you cannot judge with hindesite....you need to say at the time this was the circumstances

Oden wasn't a crazy pick at that point, you say its a terrible pick, but at that time you may have made the same pick.

PhillyFaninLA
04-14-2016, 06:00 AM
He could have worded it better, but I think the gist of what PhilyFaninLA was saying is that hindsight is 20/20.

At the time of these moves, they were the right choices to make. I don't recall anyone being up in arms when we picked Embiid over Aaron Gordon at #3. Nor do I remember much of a fuss when we picked Okafor over KP. I do recall people questioning how Okafor would fit, but he was BPA at #3 (once again, at the time of the draft). If anyone had KP higher than Oak on their big boards, well, kudos to you.

Thank you, and that is my point, you can judge a pick on whether it worked out based on hindsight, but you can't judge if it was right at the time with hindsight, you need to use the information that was available then to say if it was right or wrong.

McAllen Tx
04-14-2016, 06:22 AM
Lol man you can't even make this stuff up.

"That'll be 10 bucks unless you have a ticket stub"

Wait, my son actually PLAYED in the game

"OH....that'll be 10 bucks!"

What I'm surprised about is after TJs dad said, "My son actually played in the game," the door guy didn't say,

"Oh.....that'll be 20 bucks!"

BallDontLie
04-14-2016, 08:48 AM
Last year, they take Jahlil Okafor over Kristaps Porzingis — not a total disaster, but still a mistake they're now trying to use as trade bait. In 2014, they take Joel Embiid, who hasn't played a single NBA game in two seasons and could be the next Greg Oden — second mistake and potential disaster until he proves otherwise.
In 2013, they take Nerlens Noel, who misses a season and still generally underwhelms based on his potential and the guys drafted after him, including Giannis, Gobert and McCollum — third mistake. Then they Michael Carter-Williams, a stat-stuffing guard who makes a quarter of his threes, can't even crack 70 percent from the free throw line and whose second team wants to trade him away — fourth mistake.

youre trying to hard. The Pelicans drafted Noel not the Sixers, Noel came here in a trade and is arguably better than every player that went before except probably Oladipo and did you really drop Goberts name who went outside of the lotto bcuz if you wanna play that game why nitpick one team? Mccollum went the pick before ours which led to MCW coming in but do you not know what we got in return for MCW? So how does it matter that the Bucks dont want him when that just makes the trade look that much better. I take an injured Embiid 100 times out of 100 at #3 too. Now go look at allllll of the other assets accumulated the last 3 years and try again. Start with the trade made with the Kings before the season...

ewing
04-14-2016, 09:21 AM
youre trying to hard. The Pelicans drafted Noel not the Sixers, Noel came here in a trade and is arguably better than every player that went before except probably Oladipo and did you really drop Goberts name who went outside of the lotto bcuz if you wanna play that game why nitpick one team? Mccollum went the pick before ours which led to MCW coming in but do you not know what we got in return for MCW? So how does it matter that the Bucks dont want him when that just makes the trade look that much better. I take an injured Embiid 100 times out of 100 at #3 too. Now go look at allllll of the other assets accumulated the last 3 years and try again. Start with the trade made with the Kings before the season...

He's trying too hard? You are one defending a team that just won 10 games.

Tony_Starks
04-14-2016, 09:27 AM
Not really sure how that reflects poorly on us. Xfinity Live! is owned by Comcast, who have nothing to do with the Sixers. If anything it shows the tone deafness of the operators of Xfinity Live! to not realize that it's a "season wrap" celebration for fans of the Sixers and a Sixers player wants to attend.

Comcast is just a bunch of money grubbing whores and if you never deal with them then count yourself as blessed.

Why so serious my man? You can't tell me that you don't see the humor in them not caring he's an actual 76er player and making him pay when people that went to the game got in free.

It's all comedy. We can debate all day on the "process" but what can't be debated is when you're the face of tanking people take the franchise as a joke. That's a byproduct of having a losing culture, it is what it is.

I believe that perception will change becuase Jerry and Son and highly respected but for now?....

valade16
04-14-2016, 09:27 AM
Thank you, and that is my point, you can judge a pick on whether it worked out based on hindsight, but you can't judge if it was right at the time with hindsight, you need to use the information that was available then to say if it was right or wrong.

Then let's use the information available at the time to judge them. Both Noel and Embiid were considered risky picks because of their injuries. Don't act like the 76ers have been unlucky with Embiid's injury when it was his injury history that even allowed them to draft him in the first place.

So judging the pick at the time, it was a very risky pick. Judging it now, one that as of yet hasn't worked out.

warfelg
04-14-2016, 09:42 AM
Why so serious my man? You can't tell me that you don't see the humor in them not caring he's an actual 76er player and making him pay when people that went to the game got in free.

It's all comedy. We can debate all day on the "process" but what can't be debated is when you're the face of tanking people take the franchise as a joke. That's a byproduct of having a losing culture, it is what it is.

I believe that perception will change becuase Jerry and Son and highly respected but for now?....

You do know Bryan Colangelo has openly admitted to tanking and its benefits right?

BallDontLie
04-14-2016, 09:46 AM
He's trying too hard? You are one defending a team that just won 10 games.

what does a discussion about assets have to do with wins? i know the Knicks dont what assets are but come on pay attention.

BallDontLie
04-14-2016, 09:49 AM
Then let's use the information available at the time to judge them. Both Noel and Embiid were considered risky picks because of their injuries. Don't act like the 76ers have been unlucky with Embiid's injury when it was his injury history that even allowed them to draft him in the first place.

So judging the pick at the time, it was a very risky pick. Judging it now, one that as of yet hasn't worked out.

there was nothing risky about Noel. He could have played after the new year in his rookie season if we wanted him to but opted not to risk anything and continue working on his new shooting mechanics. How many games has noel missed due to his ACL in 3 years? Again, the Sixers didnt draft Noel, he was traded for and has played more game than Holiday despite missing an entire season...

ewing
04-14-2016, 09:52 AM
what does a discussion about assets have to do with wins? i know the Knicks dont what assets are but come on pay attention.

i thought winning games was the goal of a team in team sports. Well, i'm just red faced now. Thanks for clearing things up

basketballkitty
04-14-2016, 09:56 AM
i thought winning games was the goal of a team in team sports. Well, just red faced now. Thanks for clearing things up




That is funny coming from a guy who's team sat Melo the final 40 + games last season when the Injury he had was a MINOR one that everyone said would sideline him at most was 5 games....so they could TANK...and get KAT, or Okafor. IRONIC!!!

ewing
04-14-2016, 10:01 AM
That is funny coming from a guy who's team sat Melo the final 40 + games last season when the Injury he had was a MINOR one that everyone said would sideline him at most was 5 games....so they could TANK...and get KAT, or Okafor. IRONIC!!!


Melo was not fully recovered from his surgery when the season began this year and has had knee issues since coming to the knicks. That said the Knicks did tank last year. you should point to the fire sale Phil held instead. anyway, im not too blind to criticize my team

BallDontLie
04-14-2016, 10:25 AM
i thought winning games was the goal of a team in team sports. Well, i'm just red faced now. Thanks for clearing things up

do you ever not troll? lets pretend the Knicks know what winning games is like though.

ewing
04-14-2016, 10:31 AM
do you ever not troll? lets pretend the Knicks know what winning games is like though.

Its not a troll its honesty. i have a thread on the front page making fun of my knicks. you try to make things complicated to cover the oblivious. The Sixers are terrible. they are laughing stock bad and have been for years. your franchise hasn't been making all the right calls.

valade16
04-14-2016, 10:55 AM
there was nothing risky about Noel. He could have played after the new year in his rookie season if we wanted him to but opted not to risk anything and continue working on his new shooting mechanics. How many games has noel missed due to his ACL in 3 years? Again, the Sixers didnt draft Noel, he was traded for and has played more game than Holiday despite missing an entire season...

Of course there was. There was tremendous risk that he wouldn't be the same player he was before the injury. And there was risk given his injury history. He missed an entire season, played 75/82 games and this season played 67/82 games. I wouldn't necessarily be worried about the number of games he's missed, but he isn't a shining example of health either.

He has played more games than Jrue, so in that regard they made a good move. But much like Jon Snow won every battle he fought and still lost the Game of Thrones, you can make good move after good move and not contend for a title. What move has he made that has turned into an out of the park HR maneuver in terms of improving their on-court ability?

I'm not saying it's his fault because a lot of it is luck, but as I showed in a previous post in this thread, his strategy was banking on a tremendous amount of luck to begin with. You can't rely on luck and then blame it when it doesn't work out. You relied on luck, you live with the results.

The 76ers have had what 4 lottery picks since Hinkie? They are:

Noel
Michael Carter-Williams
Embiid
Okafor

So they really have Noel and Okafor thus far that we can judge who are still on the team. Good players? Absolutely. Game changers or stars/superstars? Probably not.

Now, this entire view could change depending on who they draft this offseason, or if Embiid comes back and does well. But as of now, you have two solid players and a boatload of uncertainty in terms of your future outlook.

SeoulBeatz
04-14-2016, 11:26 AM
The 76ers have had what 4 lottery picks since Hinkie? They are:

Noel
Michael Carter-Williams
Embiid
Okafor

So they really have Noel and Okafor thus far that we can judge who are still on the team. Good players? Absolutely. Game changers or stars/superstars? Probably not.

Now, this entire view could change depending on who they draft this offseason, or if Embiid comes back and does well. But as of now, you have two solid players and a boatload of uncertainty in terms of your future outlook.

This is a sound assessment. Noel and Ok may not have been the optimal picks but they're far from useless as players.

Colangelo was given about as much flexibility as a GM could ask for. What he does with that flexibility is what concerns me.

He has a few assets that he'll be able to play around with:

-A couple starters in Nerlens Noel and Okafor.

-A few young role players in Covington, Grant, McConnell, and Holmes.

-Saric and Embiid* joining the team next season.

-A bunch of picks in this years draft:
Our pick (projected #1-#4)
Lakers pick (probably won't convey, top 3 protected)
Right to swap 1sts with the Kings (could come in handy if they land the #1 overall)
Heat pick (#23)
OKC pick (#26)
Nuggets 2nd (#40)


I want Ingram if we land the #1, but I'd be happy with Simmons and Hield has grown on me over the past couple months.

As you said, the draft will be huge in dictating the direction of this team going forward. I just have mixed feelings on whether the Colangelos will make the right moves or not, we'll just have to wait and see.

BallDontLie
04-14-2016, 12:41 PM
Its not a troll its honesty. i have a thread on the front page making fun of my knicks. you try to make things complicated to cover the oblivious. The Sixers are terrible. they are laughing stock bad and have been for years. your franchise hasn't been making all the right calls.

my discussion with the other poster had nothing to do about wins and losses. no one was talking to you and you tried to troll your way in, you succeeded i guess, congrats.

ewing
04-14-2016, 01:34 PM
my discussion with the other poster had nothing to do about wins and losses. no one was talking to you and you tried to troll your way in, you succeeded i guess, congrats.

If you want to PM them do so. you can't really but in on an open message board. you were talking about the Sixers decision making. wins and loses is how sports teams are judged. if a team is winning an average of 15 games a year over a 3 year span they are not making good decisions. you can play all the mental gymnastics you want but that's reality.

BallDontLie
04-14-2016, 01:59 PM
what dude?

chime in all u want but dont try and change the subject so you can continue to troll. the guy said the Sixers did a poor job of collecting assets and that couldnt be more wrong, out record has literally nothing to do with that.

ewing
04-14-2016, 02:22 PM
what dude?

chime in all u want but dont try and change the subject so you can continue to troll. the guy said the Sixers did a poor job of collecting assets and that couldnt be more wrong, out record has literally nothing to do with that.


it couldn't be more right. the sixers have a couple young bigs and future picks. they have a lot of future picks. if future picks were the only thing in the NBA that carried value the Sixers would have the most assets like you seem to want everyone to believe. however some teams actually have proven professionals that play basketball. unless they are overpaid in relation to there contract they are positive assets too and the Sixers don't have any.

Anyway, sorry to get uppity but its the truth. the first post was a response the you saying "you're trying to hard" in relation to someone talking about the Sixers. Fact is the team is terrible and you spend all day defending them from any and all criticism. your statement was ironic.

5ass
04-14-2016, 04:11 PM
I'm guessing about the same as if they signed a bunch of high priced, long term contracts and the players didn't get along. Or one got injured. Or the players regress. Or the coach can't acclimate the players to the system. Or any of a thousand simply unlucky occurences.

While we're here, can we talk about how tanking is supposedly worse than it's ever been, but the worst team is from 1973, prior to the lottery?

Lol do they deserve a congratulations for not being the worst team in NBA history? That record has stood for nearly 45 years... I don't know **** about the 1973 Sixers. Were they purposely this bad? Were they injured? I just don't know and frankly I don't care about something that happened 45 years ago. Today, the Sixers have 10 wins in their THIRD year of their rebuild. The wins keep decreasing. Is the plan to keep decreasing those wins until they somehow land a star?

Also I read a rumour that says the sixers are looking to fire Brown and hire D'antoni as coach. I think that would be their worst mistake yet. Brown deserves better than what he's been put through, and to fire him after all that would be horrible.

IndyRealist
04-14-2016, 04:18 PM
Lol do they deserve a congratulations for not being the worst team in NBA history? That record has stood for nearly 45 years... I don't know **** about the 1973 Sixers. Were they purposely this bad? Were they injured? I just don't know and frankly I don't care about something that happened 45 years ago. Today, the Sixers have 10 wins in their THIRD year of their rebuild. The wins keep decreasing. Is the plan to keep decreasing those wins until they somehow land a star?

Also I read a rumour that says the sixers are looking to fire Brown and hire D'antoni as coach. I think that would be their worst mistake yet. Brown deserves better than what he's been put through, and to fire him after all that would be horrible.

No one said they should be congratulated. But the idea that tanking is atrocious now and it wasn't previously is false. The worst records are fairly spread out.

Agree on the coaching. But Colangelo is probably going to bring in his own guy. I doubt many staffers survive the regime change.

5ass
04-14-2016, 04:24 PM
No one said they should be congratulated. But the idea that tanking is atrocious now and it wasn't previously is false. The worst records are fairly spread out.

Agree on the coaching. But Colangelo is probably going to bring in his own guy. I doubt many staffers survive the regime change.

Has any team had a three year stretch like the sixers just had? They averaged 15.6 wins per season. I don't how to get that information, but maybe someone can think of a team that was terrible for three years?

I've said time and time again, I'm OK with teams tanking for one year, but to do it for 3.5 years is too much.

IndyRealist
04-14-2016, 04:39 PM
Has any team had a three year stretch like the sixers just had? They averaged 15.6 wins per season. I don't how to get that information, but maybe someone can think of a team that was terrible for three years?

I've said time and time again, I'm OK with teams tanking for one year, but to do it for 3.5 years is too much.

Not that bad that I can find. Some teams have a 3 or 4 year run around 23 wins. But the Sixers are openly tanking, and one team does not make an epidemic.

EDIT: Denver 96-99 averaged 15.6 over 3 years.

BallDontLie
04-14-2016, 04:53 PM
Has any team had a three year stretch like the sixers just had? They averaged 15.6 wins per season. I don't how to get that information, but maybe someone can think of a team that was terrible for three years?

I've said time and time again, I'm OK with teams tanking for one year, but to do it for 3.5 years is too much.

you cant tank for one year if you are trying to rebuild a roster, it doesnt work like that unless you already have a good team and suffered too many injuries. you have to let players develop, collect assets, etc which exactly what we have done.

warfelg
04-14-2016, 04:57 PM
Has any team had a three year stretch like the sixers just had? They averaged 15.6 wins per season. I don't how to get that information, but maybe someone can think of a team that was terrible for three years?

I've said time and time again, I'm OK with teams tanking for one year, but to do it for 3.5 years is too much.

There was a stretch that Indy posted. Dallas also had a terrible 4 year window. Seattle/OKC had a terrible window too. I'm not in front of my computer to look at it to know the exacts.

warfelg
04-14-2016, 04:59 PM
No one said they should be congratulated. But the idea that tanking is atrocious now and it wasn't previously is false. The worst records are fairly spread out.

Agree on the coaching. But Colangelo is probably going to bring in his own guy. I doubt many staffers survive the regime change.

The worst part is DAntonio isn't even going to get the job for the right reasons. He's on the staff now but he's going to get it out of fear of losing him to coach elsewhere rather than actually being a better coach.

5ass
04-14-2016, 05:03 PM
Not that bad that I can find. Some teams have a 3 or 4 year run around 23 wins. But the Sixers are openly tanking, and one team does not make an epidemic.

EDIT: Denver 96-99 averaged 15.6 over 3 years.

So two teams in NBA history? I don't remember those nuggets teams TBH, but that was nearly 20 years ago. Maybe they were also trashed for tanking? Or did they try to improve but failed? Or did they just suffer a lot of injuries or what exactly? Because in Hinkie's case he was purposefully trying to get the #1 pick every year.

Anyway that doesn't mean we shouldn't criticize the sixers. Many teams were able to rebuild without being this terrible. If Hinkie considers himself a good GM and takes pride in his job he shouldn't have to tank that hard. Maybe one team does not make an epidemic, but for the epidemic to start, one team needs to initiate it.

5ass
04-14-2016, 05:05 PM
bh
you cant tank for one year if you are trying to rebuild a roster, it doesnt work like that unless you already have a good team and suffered too many injuries. you have to let players develop, collect assets, etc which exactly what we have done.

I mean it depends how you define tanking.

5ass
04-14-2016, 05:09 PM
There was a stretch that Indy posted. Dallas also had a terrible 4 year window. Seattle/OKC had a terrible window too. I'm not in front of my computer to look at it to know the exacts.

The record isn't really the main issue either, its the process that people disagree with. Purposefully trying to rid your team of talent and avoiding adding any is the problem. Thank god they had Brown who was able to get a few more wins out of a d-league roster.

IndyRealist
04-14-2016, 06:36 PM
So two teams in NBA history? I don't remember those nuggets teams TBH, but that was nearly 20 years ago. Maybe they were also trashed for tanking? Or did they try to improve but failed? Or did they just suffer a lot of injuries or what exactly? Because in Hinkie's case he was purposefully trying to get the #1 pick every year.

Anyway that doesn't mean we shouldn't criticize the sixers. Many teams were able to rebuild without being this terrible. If Hinkie considers himself a good GM and takes pride in his job he shouldn't have to tank that hard. Maybe one team does not make an epidemic, but for the epidemic to start, one team needs to initiate it.

Mavs 1991-94 averaged 15.3 wins.

Clippers 1997-2000 averaged 13.6 wins.

Grizzlies 1995-99 averaged 14 wins, but that was the first 4 years of an expansion team.

What you're doing is called moving the goal posts. You set a criteria, and when it turns out you were wrong you develop other criteria and saying that you're still right because of the new measures. You brought up their record over 3 years, which you even state you brought up repeatedly, then when it's untrue "The record isn't really the main issue".

And one thing you said is true: Hinkie was purposefully trying to be as bad as possible. Yet you're judging him for successfully doing what he set out to do. Agree with what he was doing or not, he did it well and stuck to his guns.

And on a tangent, you've said you've been saying this over and over, that you didn't know of any team that was as bad in a 3 year span as the Sixers. Why didn't you just look it up? It took like 15 mins once I was on a computer instead of my phone.

warfelg
04-14-2016, 06:50 PM
The record isn't really the main issue either, its the process that people disagree with. Purposefully trying to rid your team of talent and avoiding adding any is the problem. Thank god they had Brown who was able to get a few more wins out of a d-league roster.

I would argue it's lead us to find guys like Grant, Convington, Stauskis (yea I know he was a lotto pick), Holmes, TJ McConnell, Hollis Thomas, all of who would never have gotten a fair shake if we signed bad vets to overpriced contracts to save face.

We weren't avoiding adding talent. We were avoiding signing guys who wouldn't be a part of a long term solution.

warfelg
04-14-2016, 07:09 PM
Mavs 1991-94 averaged 15.3 wins.

Clippers 1997-2000 averaged 13.6 wins.

Grizzlies 1995-99 averaged 14 wins, but that was the first 4 years of an expansion team.

What you're doing is called moving the goal posts. You set a criteria, and when it turns out you were wrong you develop other criteria and saying that you're still right because of the new measures. You brought up their record over 3 years, which you even state you brought up repeatedly, then when it's untrue "The record isn't really the main issue".

And one thing you said is true: Hinkie was purposefully trying to be as bad as possible. Yet you're judging him for successfully doing what he set out to do. Agree with what he was doing or not, he did it well and stuck to his guns.

And on a tangent, you've said you've been saying this over and over, that you didn't know of any team that was as bad in a 3 year span as the Sixers. Why didn't you just look it up? It took like 15 mins once I was on a computer instead of my phone.

Washington had a 4 year stretch of 22 wins (I know not as low but that's bad), AND a 21 win 3 year stretch.

Denver from 96-99 averaged 15 wins a year.

Over a 5 year span the Wolves averaged 20.8 wins a year.

97-02 the Warriors averaged 19 games a year.

From 08-15 (7 years!!!) the Kings have won 24.7 games on average.

Point being, enough teams have had long spans where they don't really do much. I would be confident in some of these 5-7 year spans that we could end up with more wins on average even with this.

beasted86
04-15-2016, 02:32 PM
^More importantly, I'd be looking what all of those teams did on the outside of those spans.

That's actually what's more applicable to the Sixers than anything else. Basically all of those teams rebuilt twice.

Wizards came out of it with Wall, and are basically headed into a 2nd rebuild this summer if they don't land Durant (unlikely). Wolves got Love and now are rebuilding a 2nd time around Wiggins. Warriors rebuilt around Davis/Captain Jack/Monta and had to rebuild again very shortly after.

This whole 'house clearing' tank move doesn't yield good results no matter how many assets you stack up IMO.

Ultimately it destroys the brand image relegating a team as a 'known loser' where free agents don't want to go/stay, and a consistent loser probably can't organically grow into a winner with a bunch of talented rookies because they probably don't have enough proven leaders. We saw the early 2000s Clippers with Olowakandi, Brand, Miles, Q-Rich, Maggette, Odom, Livingston, etc. All top touted lottery players and no combination of those guys consistently worked.

This seems like a rash judgement, but any management group that feels the only fix is to clear house, probably isn't very good at evaluating talent and fit, and therefore won't make the right trades down the line to finalize the fit.

It just doesn't work to me. But I guess at this point fans have no control over what type of rebuild management sees fit. The owner is clearly comfortable having the worst attendance/worst record, and they will probably never lose money due to luxury tax back payments. I'm also guessing the profit sharing provisions in the CBA have some sort of allowance when you can prove you aren't making any profit. So for now, the Sixers aren't paying out to anyone else.

warfelg
04-15-2016, 03:13 PM
Outside that span was a run within one game of the ECF, trading Vucivic/Moultrie/Iggy/Pick for Bynum who never suited up. We haven't hit the backend of outside so you can't judge how bottoming out worked long term yet.

5ass
04-15-2016, 04:09 PM
Mavs 1991-94 averaged 15.3 wins.

Clippers 1997-2000 averaged 13.6 wins.

Grizzlies 1995-99 averaged 14 wins, but that was the first 4 years of an expansion team.

What you're doing is called moving the goal posts. You set a criteria, and when it turns out you were wrong you develop other criteria and saying that you're still right because of the new measures. You brought up their record over 3 years, which you even state you brought up repeatedly, then when it's untrue "The record isn't really the main issue".

And one thing you said is true: Hinkie was purposefully trying to be as bad as possible. Yet you're judging him for successfully doing what he set out to do. Agree with what he was doing or not, he did it well and stuck to his guns.

And on a tangent, you've said you've been saying this over and over, that you didn't know of any team that was as bad in a 3 year span as the Sixers. Why didn't you just look it up? It took like 15 mins once I was on a computer instead of my phone.
I asked a simple question, because frankly I just didn't feel like looking it up. I said I felt three years of tanking is too much. That is regardless of whether its been done before or not. 15 min is 14 min too long for me to search for that.

People didn't just start criticizing the sixes strategy after their 10 win season. I personally have criticized since the start of the tank, and I predicted Hinkle would be all about assets and not team building. I said theres a lot he hasn't taken into account and that it would cost him his job, and it did. So yeah like I said its not really about their record. Its about the whole process. I don't think its a very successful strategy, and you can see the teams you listed amounted to nothing.


Also I've repeatedly said Hinkie knows how to accumulate assets, so I do give him credit, but to give him credit for being intentionally bad... that's laughable.

5ass
04-15-2016, 04:12 PM
I would argue it's lead us to find guys like Grant, Convington, Stauskis (yea I know he was a lotto pick), Holmes, TJ McConnell, Hollis Thomas, all of who would never have gotten a fair shake if we signed bad vets to overpriced contracts to save face.

We weren't avoiding adding talent. We were avoiding signing guys who wouldn't be a part of a long term solution.

And was that the right thing to do? What about avoiding signing Ish Smith? Hinkie really couldn't pay him his 4-5 mill 2 yr contract, but he's fine paying guys like Landry, Kirilemko, ect.

BallDontLie
04-15-2016, 04:20 PM
Ish wanted to take a chance in FA, both parties failed on that but lets no act like that really matters in the end here, like at all. Hinkie gave a 7 years window to build a contender and he spent the last 3 collecting serious assets to be in position to make a big move if/when presented itseslf on top of developing players from the draft. The next part was set to and will start this offseason. Hinkie didnt fail to build a team bcuz he hadnt attempted to yet.

beasted86
04-15-2016, 04:21 PM
Outside that span was a run within one game of the ECF, trading Vucivic/Moultrie/Iggy/Pick for Bynum who never suited up. We haven't hit the backend of outside so you can't judge how bottoming out worked long term yet.

I think you missed my point. Outside meant on the other end of the rebuild. What did teams do after they cleared house and tanked? It's usually not a sustained playoff run. It's usually another subsequent rebuild shortly after.

Tanking and building through the draft are something every team does, but personally I would never consider a house clearing rebuild unless I already had 1 or 2 good players in hand. If they didn't think Jrue was that guy they could have definitely still traded him, but maybe for another good young guy, not for a draft pick. Same with Turner and Thad. You don't have to trade all of your guys for picks.

warfelg
04-15-2016, 04:21 PM
And was that the right thing to do? What about avoiding signing Ish Smith? Hinkie really couldn't pay him his 4-5 mill 2 yr contract, but he's fine paying guys like Landry, Kirilemko, ect.

Actually Hinkie offered Ish a 4 year deal to stay here. Ish took a 1 year with Washington to try to play elsewhere.

beasted86
04-15-2016, 04:24 PM
Ish wanted to take a chance in FA, both parties failed on that but lets no act like that really matters in the end here, like at all. Hinkie gave a 7 years window to build a contender and he spent the last 3 collecting serious assets to be in position to make a big move if/when presented itseslf on top of developing players from the draft. The next part was set to and will start this offseason. Hinkie didnt fail to build a team bcuz he hadnt attempted to yet.

Why do you say 7 years? A lot of reports are saying an indeterminate timetable. I'd like to see your source for that 7 year quote.

My other question is some of you fans are saying this rebuild is to become a contender and other fans are saying you are rebuilding to get a superstar (you may or may not contend immediately). Which do you think was his goal?

5ass
04-15-2016, 04:42 PM
Actually Hinkie offered Ish a 4 year deal to stay here. Ish took a 1 year with Washington to try to play elsewhere.

You mean the Pelicans, but are you telling me Hinkie couldn't have offered him a 1 yr 3-4 mill contract? That's quadruple what he signed for.

5ass
04-15-2016, 04:45 PM
Ish wanted to take a chance in FA, both parties failed on that but lets no act like that really matters in the end here, like at all. Hinkie gave a 7 years window to build a contender and he spent the last 3 collecting serious assets to be in position to make a big move if/when presented itseslf on top of developing players from the draft. The next part was set to and will start this offseason. Hinkie didnt fail to build a team bcuz he hadnt attempted to yet.

Yet he traded two second rounders to get him back. So it does kind of matter. It had an adverse effect on the team, and you can see acquiring Ish really helped Okafor and Noel.
What makes you so sure the next part would've started this off season? If you failed to land a star do you keep the tank going until you land one?

warfelg
04-15-2016, 04:48 PM
You mean the Pelicans, but are you telling me Hinkie couldn't have offered him a 1 yr 3-4 mill contract? That's quadruple what he signed for.

http://www.libertyballers.com/2015/9/9/9282813/ish-smith-signs-training-camp-deal-with-wizards

warfelg
04-15-2016, 04:50 PM
Why do you say 7 years? A lot of reports are saying an indeterminate timetable. I'd like to see your source for that 7 year quote.

My other question is some of you fans are saying this rebuild is to become a contender and other fans are saying you are rebuilding to get a superstar (you may or may not contend immediately). Which do you think was his goal?

Both. It's hard to be a serious contender without a superstar. So he was looking to contend by having a superstar with a team built around them.

5ass
04-15-2016, 04:53 PM
http://www.libertyballers.com/2015/9/9/9282813/ish-smith-signs-training-camp-deal-with-wizards

Even worse.. he took an unguaranteed contract. So it seems like Hinkie really low balled him.

warfelg
04-15-2016, 04:54 PM
Even worse.. he took an unguaranteed contract. So it seems like Hinkie really low balled him.

Hinkie offered Ish the same deal that Kendal Marshall got. 4 years non-guaranteed.

beasted86
04-15-2016, 04:54 PM
http://www.libertyballers.com/2015/9/9/9282813/ish-smith-signs-training-camp-deal-with-wizards
Where did it say he offered a long term contract?

5ass
04-15-2016, 04:57 PM
Hinkie offered Ish the same deal that Kendal Marshall got. 4 years non-guaranteed.

Ish probably didn't want a long term contract with the cap rise coming. That's totally understandable. Again, like I said a 3-4 mill 1 yr contract would've likely got it done.

beasted86
04-15-2016, 04:59 PM
Even worse.. he took an unguaranteed contract. So it seems like Hinkie really low balled him.

Jared Dudley openly talked about that in an interview how he doesn't like how Hinkie offers players 3 or 4 year non-guarantee contracts.

I agree that's it's false sense of security. All it is is payroll control for the team because they can dump you after a season.

I would bet that Smith gets a legit multi year guarantee from a team this summer.

warfelg
04-15-2016, 05:01 PM
Jared Dudley openly talked about that in an interview how he doesn't like how Hinkie offers players 3 or 4 year non-guarantee contracts.

I agree that's it's false sense of security. All it is is payroll control for the team because they can dump you after a season.

I would bet that Smith gets a legit multi year guarantee from a team this summer.

Well a big part of Ish's reasoning wasn't even the contract. He just wanted the chance to latch on with a playoff team after (1) bouncing around the league and (2) a (personally) successful second half of the season. He even admitted that was the case but it turned out to be a mistake.

beasted86
04-15-2016, 05:03 PM
Both. It's hard to be a serious contender without a superstar. So he was looking to contend by having a superstar with a team built around them.

So are you saying you believed in 7 years you would be contending under Hinkie? The team would have to strike gold with every pick in this year's draft to have a deep team or enough assets to trade for all-stars to hit that timetable 3 more summers from now.

5ass
04-15-2016, 05:06 PM
Well a big part of Ish's reasoning wasn't even the contract. He just wanted the chance to latch on with a playoff team after (1) bouncing around the league and (2) a (personally) successful second half of the season. He even admitted that was the case but it turned out to be a mistake.

So you think he'd rather go to a play off team and get paid 1 mill or less than sign with the sixers, get a starting spot and get paid 4 mill? Keep in mind Ish hasn't gotten a big contract yet. This was his first contract over 1 mill.

warfelg
04-15-2016, 05:09 PM
So you think he'd rather go to a play off team and get paid 1 mill or less than sign with the sixers, get a starting spot and get paid 4 mill? Keep in mind Ish hasn't gotten a big contract yet. This was his first contract over 1 mill.

Yes because wait for it...














...HE'S THE ONE THAT SAID IT!!!

beasted86
04-15-2016, 05:10 PM
Well a big part of Ish's reasoning wasn't even the contract. He just wanted the chance to latch on with a playoff team after (1) bouncing around the league and (2) a (personally) successful second half of the season. He even admitted that was the case but it turned out to be a mistake.
Well its a no brainer, he made the right choice.

At the end of the day, performing well for a playoff team > performing well for a bottom team. There's a bunch of players who used 1 good series as a springboard for a payday. Aside from Jodie Meeks, there aren't a lot of players on a loser who get paid.

warfelg
04-15-2016, 05:10 PM
So are you saying you believed in 7 years you would be contending under Hinkie? The team would have to strike gold with every pick in this year's draft to have a deep team or enough assets to trade for all-stars to hit that timetable 3 more summers from now.

I do. Mostly because we also had the ability to make tons of moves via trades and gobs of cap to make signings over the next 4 years.

basketballkitty
04-15-2016, 05:10 PM
So are you saying you believed in 7 years you would be contending under Hinkie? The team would have to strike gold with every pick in this year's draft to have a deep team or enough assets to trade for all-stars to hit that timetable 3 more summers from now.




Everyone can have their opinion but to me, this draft may be weak overall. But it has what I think IS a truly Transcendent prospect in Ben Simmons. I mean everyone acts like because he never chose to shoot long range that he can't. And that is not true. But that aside, NO other NCAA Freshmen has ever done what he has. He has PG abilities in a 6ft, 10, 245lb Body that is ready to play Day 1. And he HAS Lebron/MJ/Magic/Bird like persona that will likely make him an All-Star in his first year. If Philly can get him, then considering everyone else they have....it WILL be a Hot Spot for pending free agents.

5ass
04-15-2016, 05:12 PM
Jared Dudley openly talked about that in an interview how he doesn't like how Hinkie offers players 3 or 4 year non-guarantee contracts.

I agree that's it's false sense of security. All it is is payroll control for the team because they can dump you after a season.

I would bet that Smith gets a legit multi year guarantee from a team this summer.

Didn't he do the same with KJ Mcdaniels? If he's having so much trouble with these guys, I dont think I'd want him to negotiate with stars looking to renew their contracts.

beasted86
04-15-2016, 05:13 PM
So you think he'd rather go to a play off team and get paid 1 mill or less than sign with the sixers, get a starting spot and get paid 4 mill? Keep in mind Ish hasn't gotten a big contract yet. This was his first contract over 1 mill.

It's not going to be guaranteed, so I don't get why you say $4M. It will be 1yr guaranteed and all the rest as team options.

I wouldn't sign that type of contract unless I didn't feel I was really good enough to even be in the NBA. And certainly not after a decent 12+ ppg season.

basketballkitty
04-15-2016, 05:15 PM
Didn't he do the same with KJ Mcdaniels? If he's having so much trouble with these guys, I dont think I'd want him to negotiate with stars looking to renew their contracts.

Actually he did the opposite. He gave KJ and his agent what they wanted. A 1 year deal where KJ if he wanted could become a restricted free agent...and he did, and signed a new deal with Houston that pays him more then 70 % of what the 1st rounders are making right now from that same draft. So Hinkie did KJ a huge favor by allowing him that rookie contract.

5ass
04-15-2016, 05:19 PM
Yes because wait for it...














...HE'S THE ONE THAT SAID IT!!!
You mean after he was traded back to the sixers? LOL, do you really believe it? Does it make sense to you that he would take an unguaranteed contract over, let's say a 4 mill/yr contract with a player option his second year? Playing for Philly would allow him to start and get a bigger contract later on. At the end of the day we all know money speaks loudest, and Smith has made a TOTAL of "only" 4 mill in his whole career.

IndyRealist
04-15-2016, 05:20 PM
It's not going to be guaranteed, so I don't get why you say $4M. It will be 1yr guaranteed and all the rest as team options.

I wouldn't sign that type of contract unless I didn't feel I was really good enough to even be in the NBA. And certainly not after a decent 12+ ppg season.
Agree with this. Ish did what was best for Ish. Play well for a better team and try to impress your next employer. You don't want to get locked into a long term non-guaranteed deal. What is this, the NFL?

beasted86
04-15-2016, 05:22 PM
Everyone can have their opinion but to me, this draft may be weak overall. But it has what I think IS a truly Transcendent prospect in Ben Simmons. I mean everyone acts like because he never chose to shoot long range that he can't. And that is not true. But that aside, NO other NCAA Freshmen has ever done what he has. He has PG abilities in a 6ft, 10, 245lb Body that is ready to play Day 1. And he HAS Lebron/MJ/Magic/Bird like persona that will likely make him an All-Star in his first year. If Philly can get him, then considering everyone else they have....it WILL be a Hot Spot for pending free agents.

And what happens if you miss out and end up 2nd or 3rd? What happens if Noel has no trade stock as a potential 1yr rental? What if Embiid is a bust? It may be that you want them to be a contender 7 years into this thing more than you think they will be one based on progress at this halfway point.

5ass
04-15-2016, 05:22 PM
Actually he did the opposite. He gave KJ and his agent what they wanted. A 1 year deal where KJ if he wanted could become a restricted free agent...and he did, and signed a new deal with Houston that pays him more then 70 % of what the 1st rounders are making right now from that same draft. So Hinkie did KJ a huge favor by allowing him that rookie contract.

So why couldn't he offer KJ that contract instead of trading him to Houston?

warfelg
04-15-2016, 05:24 PM
It wasn't a $4mil deal. It was a 4 year $4mil total, all 4 years team options.

At least pretend like you did a little googling.

5ass
04-15-2016, 05:28 PM
It's not going to be guaranteed, so I don't get why you say $4M. It will be 1yr guaranteed and all the rest as team options.

I wouldn't sign that type of contract unless I didn't feel I was really good enough to even be in the NBA. And certainly not after a decent 12+ ppg season.

I meant Hinkie could've offered him a 1 yr 4 mill contract. All Guaranteed.

beasted86
04-15-2016, 05:28 PM
You mean after he was traded back to the sixers? LOL, do you really believe it? Does it make sense to you that he would take an unguaranteed contract over, let's say a 4 mill/yr contract with a player option his second year? Playing for Philly would allow him to start and get a bigger contract later on. At the end of the day we all know money speaks loudest, and Smith has made a TOTAL of "only" 4 mill in his whole career.

Hinkie wasn't going to pay him $4M for 1 season even if he provided stability.

Maybe being smarter than himself at the time, Hinkie he felt Marshall was younger, a better fit, and willing to take the 4yr rape deal. Also not paying a mediocre player $4M leaves more flexibility to take on salary in trades. I'm guessing that was his logic.

Overall it just didn't work. Marshall was injured the whole year and they had to spend 2 seconds to get him back.

5ass
04-15-2016, 05:31 PM
It wasn't a $4mil deal. It was a 4 year $4mil total, all 4 years team options.

At least pretend like you did a little googling.
What deal are you talking about? I'm speaking about a hypothetical deal that could've gotten smith to resign.

beasted86
04-15-2016, 05:31 PM
I meant Hinkie could've offered him a 1 yr 4 mill contract. All Guaranteed.
Yes, but instead he gambled on Marshall.

Hinkie clearly likes to gamble.

5ass
04-15-2016, 05:36 PM
Hinkie wasn't going to pay him $4M for 1 season even if he provided stability.

Maybe being smarter than himself at the time, Hinkie he felt Marshall was younger, a better fit, and willing to take the 4yr rape deal. Also not paying a mediocre player $4M leaves more flexibility to take on salary in trades. I'm guessing that was his logic.

Overall it just didn't work. Marshall was injured the whole year and they had to spend 2 seconds to get him back.

Marshall was coming off a serious injury and the sixes had a **** ton of cap space. I'm saying Hinkle could've easily signed Smith to a 4 mill 1 yr deal to provide stability, and it wouldn't have negatively affected things long term. If anything it benefits your assets (Noel and Okafor). You might say 4 mill is too much to pay for Smith, but Hinkie doesn't mind spending millions for players that literally do nothing. Ex Kirilenko, Wallace, ect.

warfelg
04-15-2016, 05:36 PM
What deal are you talking about? I'm speaking about a hypothetical deal that could've gotten smith to resign.

Reference this:

Hinkie wasn't going to pay him $4M for 1 season even if he provided stability.

Maybe being smarter than himself at the time, Hinkie he felt Marshall was younger, a better fit, and willing to take the 4yr rape deal. Also not paying a mediocre player $4M leaves more flexibility to take on salary in trades. I'm guessing that was his logic.

Overall it just didn't work. Marshall was injured the whole year and they had to spend 2 seconds to get him back.

The other part of it is why talk about a hypothetical contract when it was never what was offered? There's what happened and what didn't. Hinkie offered a 4 year deal that was 4 team options, because he wanted to keep flexibility in case it didn't work. Ish was offered a shot with a potential playoff team, took the chance, it didn't work, signed with NO, who became expendable when Jrue came back, which made him available in a trade, and we traded for him to return.

warfelg
04-15-2016, 05:46 PM
Yes, but instead he gambled on Marshall.

Hinkie clearly likes to gamble.

He took a ton of gambles. That one was a fail.

But Covington, Grant, Stauskis, McConnell all paid off.

No GM has a perfect record in terms of picks, signings, and trades. I get that, so do Sixer fans. Aldimer was a fail. Kazimi was a fail. Embiid is an unknown, as is Saric. But Noel and Okafor could be counted as hits. Trading MCW for the Lakers top 3 protected pick was a win.

5ass
04-15-2016, 05:49 PM
Reference this:


The other part of it is why talk about a hypothetical contract when it was never what was offered? There's what happened and what didn't. Hinkie offered a 4 year deal that was 4 team options, because he wanted to keep flexibility in case it didn't work. Ish was offered a shot with a potential playoff team, took the chance, it didn't work, signed with NO, who became expendable when Jrue came back, which made him available in a trade, and we traded for him to return.

A 4 yr deal with 4 team options is a joke. My point is that Hinkie made very little effort to do anything to help the team win now. If he really wanted to resign Smith he could've had him I'm sure. As long as you don't feel the contract will be a hindrance you resign him for the sake of the young players and the franchise. Especially when you're coming off an 18 win season and dont have much talent at that position.

valade16
04-15-2016, 05:50 PM
He took a ton of gambles. That one was a fail.

But Covington, Grant, Stauskis, McConnell all paid off.

No GM has a perfect record in terms of picks, signings, and trades. I get that, so do Sixer fans. Aldimer was a fail. Kazimi was a fail. Embiid is an unknown, as is Saric. But Noel and Okafor could be counted as hits. Trading MCW for the Lakers top 3 protected pick was a win.

I agree, Ish Smith was a bad gamble and a perplexing decision given how well he had played but it wasn't a very disastrous move considering they were able to get him back. How often are you able to mess up and essentially get a mulligan for very little in return?

It certainly wasn't some terrible idea considering how it ended up.

5ass
04-15-2016, 05:52 PM
He took a ton of gambles. That one was a fail.

But Covington, Grant, Stauskis, McConnell all paid off.

No GM has a perfect record in terms of picks, signings, and trades. I get that, so do Sixer fans. Aldimer was a fail. Kazimi was a fail. Embiid is an unknown, as is Saric. But Noel and Okafor could be counted as hits. Trading MCW for the Lakers top 3 protected pick was a win.

Meh Covington, Grant, McConnell, Stauskus are not the type of players you take the time and patience to develop. They're ones you pick up in FA for cheap or develop in garbage time. Stauskus might be a decent role player though.

warfelg
04-15-2016, 06:00 PM
Clearly you haven't watched much or understand some of the special things Covington and Grant do if you don't think they are worth it. Cov is turning into a nice 3nD guy. Grant blocks weakside shots at an unbelievable rate, shooting better from three, and is a good on man defender.

Grant was 11th in the NBA in blocks with 127. T-11th in blocks per game with 1.6.
Covington was 16th in the NBA in 3PT FG's made.
I might not like TJ as a starter, but as a backup a guy that's 8th in the NBA with 37.2 Assist PRCT is worth working with.

Like of the 4 players I listed, you picked maybe the one with the dimmest future as the only one worth developing.

5ass
04-15-2016, 06:07 PM
Clearly you haven't watched much or understand some of the special things Covington and Grant do if you don't think they are worth it. Cov is turning into a nice 3nD guy. Grant blocks weakside shots at an unbelievable rate, shooting better from three, and is a good on man defender.

I have. Nothing special at all. Like I said these are not the guys you take the time and patience to develop. You do your best to support the development of the players that you drafted with your top picks. They should be the main focus.

Btw Grant's 3pt % dropped to 24% this year.

beasted86
04-15-2016, 06:31 PM
Marshall was coming off a serious injury and the sixes had a **** ton of cap space. I'm saying Hinkle could've easily signed Smith to a 4 mill 1 yr deal to provide stability, and it wouldn't have negatively affected things long term. If anything it benefits your assets (Noel and Okafor). You might say 4 mill is too much to pay for Smith, but Hinkie doesn't mind spending millions for players that literally do nothing. Ex Kirilenko, Wallace, ect.
The bolded is one of my ongoing points where I'm critical of how Hinkie approached this tank and draft, and specifically one of the aspects that made this tank job different than the way most other teams tank.

I'm not agreeing with the logic at all, I'm just explaining it.

Mell413
04-15-2016, 06:36 PM
I think it's a sign of a poor rebuild when you're celebrating guys like Stauskas and McConnell. Although with Stauskas at least there was a chance of him living up to his draft slot, but I don't think you can say picking him up has paid off.

beasted86
04-15-2016, 06:41 PM
Am I missing something with Stauskas?

I've been bashing Gerald Green as an inefficient bum in the HEAT forum every chance I get for averaging the same stats that Staukas is putting up.

warfelg
04-15-2016, 06:51 PM
Am I missing something with Stauskas?

I've been bashing Gerald Green as an inefficient bum in the HEAT forum every chance I get for averaging the same stats that Staukas is putting up.

It's two fold for some of us:
1) He's still young, and could contribute. If you can check by date, put in mid-January and his numbers are much much better. He shot 35.6% from January-end of season from 3.
2) We got him, Landry, 2 pick swap chances, and a 1st, for 2 nobodies and a 2nd rounder. We're high on him because he was a no cost investment and anything from him was great.

In terms of long term, I would rank them Grant, Covington, Stauskas, McConnell.

warfelg
04-15-2016, 06:57 PM
I think it's a sign of a poor rebuild when you're celebrating guys like Stauskas and McConnell. Although with Stauskas at least there was a chance of him living up to his draft slot, but I don't think you can say picking him up has paid off.

We're not celebrating. I understand (others don't) that at best they are 2nd/3rd string players who don't see the floor in important minutes. But the fact that we got an UDFA and a player we traded for without giving up anything could both be bench role guys is big.

beasted86
04-15-2016, 07:06 PM
It's two fold for some of us:
1) He's still young, and could contribute. If you can check by date, put in mid-January and his numbers are much much better. He shot 35.6% from January-end of season from 3.
2) We got him, Landry, 2 pick swap chances, and a 1st, for 2 nobodies and a 2nd rounder. We're high on him because he was a no cost investment and anything from him was great.

In terms of long term, I would rank them Grant, Covington, Stauskas, McConnell.

January and February he shot well, but post all-star he still only shot 31.4% from 3, and 39.9% overall. Like I said, I've been trashing Green, and he's a guy who we got for the basic league minimum. Him and Stauskas are clones are far as stats.

Those guys you mentioned aren't likely being looked at by management as long term pieces. The minute they cost too much, they are replaceable with MLE or less guys. Sixers are yet to find a Will Barton type of value, IMO.

ewing
04-15-2016, 09:36 PM
well, i guess if they had resigned Ish they never would have discovered McConnell