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View Full Version : NBA awards ballot, Part 1 (Zach Lowe)



KnicksorBust
04-12-2016, 02:25 PM
http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/15186679/nba-awards-ballot-part-1

MOST VALUABLE PLAYER
1. Stephen Curry
2. Kawhi Leonard
3. LeBron James
4. Kevin Durant
5. Chris Paul

ROOKIE OF THE YEAR
1. Karl-Anthony Towns
2. Kristaps Porzingis
3. Nikola Jokic

DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR
1. Draymond Green
2. Kawhi Leonard
3. Paul Millsap

COACH OF THE YEAR
1. Steve Kerr
2. Gregg Popovich
3. Terry Stotts

SIXTH MAN OF THE YEAR
1. Andre Iguodala
2. Will Barton
3. Ed Davis

MOST IMPROVED PLAYER
1. C.J. McCollum
2. Kemba Walker
3. Ian Mahinmi

valade16
04-12-2016, 02:44 PM
Isn't the Warriors record actually better under Luke Walton than Steve Kerr?

ewing
04-12-2016, 03:26 PM
Isn't the Warriors record actually better under Luke Walton than Steve Kerr?

yeah no way you can give Kerr coach of the year when he didn't coach 1/2 the year.

valade16
04-12-2016, 03:31 PM
yeah no way you can give Kerr coach of the year when he didn't coach 1/2 the year.

I agree. Would a player ever win MVP if he had only played half the season? It should be the same standard for coaches.

Rivera
04-12-2016, 03:39 PM
Not a bad list. Tbh I never woulda thought iggy for 6 man. His skill set doesn't really translate for box scores and usually 6th man goes to the best scorer off the bench. Are his numbers really that good for 6th man consideration?

I still think will Barton will get it

No way Kerr is the COY he missed to much of the season

If they want to give it to the Warriors as a team award i can go with that but not just for Kerr

I like the Portland coach and think he should win it. The award normally wouldn't go to him he doesn't have enough wins but with what we thought this team would be compared to where they actually are is remarkable

Personally my top 3 choices for COY is Portland coach, Brad Stevens and Pop

IndyRealist
04-12-2016, 04:05 PM
Glad to see Barton and Davis get some recognition. No idea why Davis keeps bouncing around the league.

ewing
04-12-2016, 04:13 PM
Not a bad list. Tbh I never woulda thought iggy for 6 man. His skill set doesn't really translate for box scores and usually 6th man goes to the best scorer off the bench. Are his numbers really that good for 6th man consideration?

I still think will Barton will get it

No way Kerr is the COY he missed to much of the season

If they want to give it to the Warriors as a team award i can go with that but not just for Kerr

I like the Portland coach and think he should win it. The award normally wouldn't go to him he doesn't have enough wins but with what we thought this team would be compared to where they actually are is remarkable

Personally my top 3 choices for COY is Portland coach, Brad Stevens and Pop


all 3 guys would be deserving.

valade16
04-12-2016, 04:21 PM
Fun fact: If Popovich wins COY he will have the most such awards ever. He is currently in a tie for most all-time with Pat Riley and Don Nelson at 3 apiece.

Another fun fact: Popovich is the only coach of the 3 to have won every award with the same franchise and Riley is the only one of the 3 to have won it with all different franchises.

IndyRealist
04-12-2016, 04:48 PM
After reading the article I take issue with this passage

"Advanced stats wonks have argued he should win the award, and he has a strong case to leapfrog Porzingis for the No. 2 slot. Jokic leads all rookies in adjusted plus-minus by a mile; he's ninth in the whole stinking league, right ahead of DeMarcus Cousins! He's an intuitive, nasty defender -- better than you'd guess, given his ho-hum athleticism.

But you can't make a case based on a single, all-in-one stat, especially one questioned by team insiders with access to the real secret sauce: analytics derived from SportVU tracking data. Towns kills by those metrics, sources tell me, and he laps the field by most other public statistical measures."

That is the very issue with proprietary metrics and SportVU in particular. It's a product they are selling, so what they are exactly looking at is a trade secret. There's no way to know if they are looking at garbage, you just have to take their word for it.

Take for instance an example that was in an nba.com article in SportVU's infancy, which said that SportVU showed that Brook Lopez what a better rebounder than Reggie Evans, because more of his rebounds were contested and he traveled farther to get them. That conclusion is highly questionable when you consider that Evans might be better at anticipating rebounds so he's simply closer to the ball, and worked to get free for the rebound before the ball hit the rim.

Of course I'm not saying that KAT doesn't deserve ROY or that these teams are out there flailing wildly in a sea of SportVU data, but take undisclosed "insider" data with a grain of salt.

You can see the article here: http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/09/16/sportvu-adds-to-the-conversation/

ewing
04-12-2016, 04:54 PM
After reading the article I take issue with this passage

"Advanced stats wonks have argued he should win the award, and he has a strong case to leapfrog Porzingis for the No. 2 slot. Jokic leads all rookies in adjusted plus-minus by a mile; he's ninth in the whole stinking league, right ahead of DeMarcus Cousins! He's an intuitive, nasty defender -- better than you'd guess, given his ho-hum athleticism.

But you can't make a case based on a single, all-in-one stat, especially one questioned by team insiders with access to the real secret sauce: analytics derived from SportVU tracking data. Towns kills by those metrics, sources tell me, and he laps the field by most other public statistical measures."

That is the very issue with proprietary metrics and SportVU in particular. It's a product they are selling, so what they are exactly looking at is a trade secret. There's no way to know if they are looking at garbage, you just have to take their word for it.

Take for instance an example that was in an nba.com article in SportVU's infancy, which said that SportVU showed that Brook Lopez what a better rebounder than Reggie Evans, because more of his rebounds were contested and he traveled farther to get them. That conclusion is highly questionable when you consider that Evans might be better at anticipating rebounds so he's simply closer to the ball, and worked to get free for the rebound before the ball hit the rim.

Of course I'm not saying that KAT doesn't deserve ROY or that these teams are out there flailing wildly in a sea of SportVU data, but take undisclosed "insider" data with a grain of salt.

You can see the article here: http://hangtime.blogs.nba.com/2013/09/16/sportvu-adds-to-the-conversation/


What issues do you have?

IndyRealist
04-12-2016, 05:02 PM
What issues do you have?

That a big part of his analysis is based on secret, proprietary data he doesn't have access to judge the merits of. They could be looking at garbage, or throwing darts at a ouija board, he has no way of knowing. That's the issue with a lot of newer metrics. These guys are trying to sell a product, so they're putting out numbers without telling you how they got there. There's no way of judging whether they're doing anything even remotely reasonable.

Saddletramp
04-12-2016, 05:16 PM
Curry/Towns/Pop/Leonard/Barton/McCollum

spreadeagle
04-12-2016, 05:33 PM
Raptors got no love, Id put Lowry over Paul for MVP and maybe Casey on best coach list (hes improved their record every year for 5 yrs straight )

cg_la00
04-12-2016, 06:56 PM
1) westbrook should be an mvp candidate easily. 18 triple doubles in a season is insane

2) dont see the love for jokic tbh. i really dont get it

3) brad stevens is more deserving for COY over the portland coach just because boston doesnt have a star player. he took that team into the top tier of the east with absolutely no one on his team.

numba1CHANGsta
04-12-2016, 07:07 PM
This season Westbrook has been more valuable to OKC than KD

ewing
04-12-2016, 10:00 PM
That a big part of his analysis is based on secret, proprietary data he doesn't have access to judge the merits of. They could be looking at garbage, or throwing darts at a ouija board, he has no way of knowing. That's the issue with a lot of newer metrics. These guys are trying to sell a product, so they're putting out numbers without telling you how they got there. There's no way of judging whether they're doing anything even remotely reasonable.

well if they tell you Brook Lopez is a better rebounder then Reggie Evans you know they are being unreasonable.

prodigy
04-13-2016, 01:28 AM
Curry has lost a lot of steam as MVP for me. Westbrook and LeBron just have crazy all around stat lines that Curry can't touch.

odiz
04-13-2016, 04:03 AM
Curry has lost a lot of steam as MVP for me. Westbrook and LeBron just have crazy all around stat lines that Curry can't touch.

The only thing Lebron is doing slightly better than Curry this year is rebound. Have a look at that crazy stat line again...

Westbrook also has the impressive stat line of 14 4th quarter leads blown and 39% shooting in the 4th quarter on the year.

prodigy
04-13-2016, 04:52 AM
The only thing Lebron is doing slightly better than Curry this year is rebound. Have a look at that crazy stat line again...

Westbrook also has the impressive stat line of 14 4th quarter leads blown and 39% shooting in the 4th quarter on the year.

over the last couple weeks in crunch time LeBron is avg 28-8-8. he's on another level right now.

Westbrook also destroys Curry in triple doubles.

LeBron almost single handily beats teams by himself and can lead subpar teams to the finals. Curry can't sorry.

odiz
04-13-2016, 06:07 AM
over the last couple weeks in crunch time LeBron is avg 28-8-8. he's on another level right now.

Westbrook also destroys Curry in triple doubles.

LeBron almost single handily beats teams by himself and can lead subpar teams to the finals. Curry can't sorry.

So Lebron has played really well for a few weeks of meaningless basketball when his team already had the 1 seed locked up.

You're right Westbrook destroys everyone in triple doubles. Give him the MVP.... And make sure Draymond gets runner up. Rondo and The Greek Freek definitely need to be 3 and 4 also. Curry only has 2 so i don't think he should even crack the top 10.

Htownballa1622
04-13-2016, 07:30 AM
Coaching is more than just being on the sideline.

They have meetings and kerr was in contact with the entire coaching staff while out.

Coaching isn't just the game day. Kerr absolutely deserves it.

They've got the best record in history for crying out loud.

ewing
04-13-2016, 08:04 AM
That a big part of his analysis is based on secret, proprietary data he doesn't have access to judge the merits of. They could be looking at garbage, or throwing darts at a ouija board, he has no way of knowing. That's the issue with a lot of newer metrics. These guys are trying to sell a product, so they're putting out numbers without telling you how they got there. There's no way of judging whether they're doing anything even remotely reasonable.

blindly following is not impressive, that said these all in one stats is where people really into this stuff lose me. To me it defeats the purpose. I love the fact that stats tell us more about efficiency, how people score well etc- %s from different spot, off the catch, off the dribble, going left or right etc. Those stats are breaking it down for me on the other hand any all in one stat is just telling me the final score and seems lame.

ewing
04-13-2016, 08:06 AM
Coaching is more than just being on the sideline.

They have meetings and kerr was in contact with the entire coaching staff while out.

Coaching isn't just the game day. Kerr absolutely deserves it.

They've got the best record in history for crying out loud.


I don't think texting Luke counts for that much. He was basically an adviser for most of the season

BallDontLie
04-13-2016, 08:53 AM
over the last couple weeks in crunch time LeBron is avg 28-8-8. he's on another level right now.

Westbrook also destroys Curry in triple doubles.

LeBron almost single handily beats teams by himself and can lead subpar teams to the finals. Curry can't sorry.

well you dont win MVP with a good 2-3 week run and you dont win it by having a lot of triple doubles....

LanceUpperCut
04-13-2016, 09:01 AM
Triple doubles don't mean **** in the long run. There a fun stat to talk about but that's about it.

Htownballa1622
04-13-2016, 09:43 AM
I don't think texting Luke counts for that much. He was basically an adviser for most of the season

If you think all he did was text then idk what to tell u.

He still has won 35 out of 40 and potentially 36 out of 41.

That's an 88% win rate.

He's about to be 140 wins and 24 losses after tonight's game in the past 2 years.

If kerr doesn't win it, he should never win it.

valade16
04-13-2016, 10:04 AM
If you think all he did was text then idk what to tell u.

He still has won 35 out of 40 and potentially 36 out of 41.

That's an 88% win rate.

He's about to be 140 wins and 24 losses after tonight's game in the past 2 years.

If kerr doesn't win it, he should never win it.

I'm sorry but if Curry only played 41 games this season would he win MVP? Heck no. If a player can't get MVP for only playing half the season a coach shouldn't be able to get COY for coaching half a season.

Luke Walton's Wikipedia says he went 39-4 when Kerr resumed coaching duties. So Kerr is 33-5 and potentially 34-5. Either way, Walton actually led the team to a better record than Kerr did on the sideline.

He should and will eventually win the COY award, but it shouldn't be for coaching half a season when your assistant comes in and has a better record than you do.

mavwar53
04-13-2016, 10:33 AM
Isn't the Warriors record actually better under Luke Walton than Steve Kerr?

Kerr was at many practices, he assigned Walton as head coach, he put together the coaching staff and still is dealing with discomfort while he's coaching one of the 2 greatest regular season teams of all time as of right now.

mavwar53
04-13-2016, 10:39 AM
Curry has lost a lot of steam as MVP for me. Westbrook and LeBron just have crazy all around stat lines that Curry can't touch.

You lost everything when you said they have crazy stat lines, so basically you could lose every game as long as you had crazy stat lines. I'd call 15 games of 8+ 3's a crazier stat line than 18 triple doubles but hey that's just me, pretty sure that hasn't been done before.

ewing
04-13-2016, 11:00 AM
Kerr was at many practices, he assigned Walton as head coach, he put together the coaching staff and still is dealing with discomfort while he's coaching one of the 2 greatest regular season teams of all time as of right now.

last year doesn't count. He only attended about 1/2 there games, did not travel with the team half the season, did not make substitutions or in game adjustments for 1/2 the season. he shouldn't win it.

Pfeifer
04-13-2016, 11:02 AM
over the last couple weeks in crunch time LeBron is avg 28-8-8. he's on another level right now.

Westbrook also destroys Curry in triple doubles.

LeBron almost single handily beats teams by himself and can lead subpar teams to the finals. Curry can't sorry.

Pls explain how Lebron does it by himself when he has Love, Irving, ect. He even has a defensive specialist in Shumpert.
I don't get the no love for the raps. Even if it's just Casey.

DboneG
04-13-2016, 12:52 PM
MOST VALUABLE PLAYER
1. Stephen Curry...they are talking unanimous vote here. He's a had a great season, but, unanimous?! I don't think so. The NBA hype machine in full force. This guy just don't throw enough assist with the amount of time he has the ball in his hands. Good/Suspect defense.
2. Russell Westbrook...has been a triple-double machine this year. Could someone vote for him over Curry? Sure! Even though he has melted down in the fourth quarter a few times, he's has an amazing season! Ferocious dunks, sharing the ball better, being a leader on the floor.
3. Chris Paul...what he has done all season, and taking it to another level when Blake was not with the team has MVP all over it. He could actually get a first place vote or two. NBA hype machine won't allow it.
4. LeBron James...he's the King! What can I say? Look at his numbers...he's actually getting better towards the playoffs.
5. Draymond Green...has just been awesome this year, triple-doubles, defense, hustle, leadership....I can go on and on.

ROOKIE OF THE YEAR
1. Karl-Anthony Towns....unanimous vote here. Keep it up young fella!
2. Kristaps Porzingis...."it's better to burn-out than to fade away." WAIT! He faded away. I wish him well. Let's hope he gain weight during the off season, and stop growing.
3. Nikola Jokic...real good season.
4. Josh Richardson...will be making noise for some years to come.
5. Justise Winslow...same thing. He'll be around doing it for years to come. Has a NBA body.

DEFENSIVE PLAYER OF THE YEAR
1. Draymond Green...This is my pick
2. Kawhi Leonard...NBA hype...although I can't anything away from him. He's a very good defender.
3. Hassan Whiteside...shouldn't be off anyones's list with his defensive play this year.

COACH OF THE YEAR
1. Terry Stotts...is my pick. He's done a great job, considering the players he's lost.
2. Gregg Popovich...this is who will win. NBA hype machine. He's had a superb season.
3. Brad Stevens.... has his team playing tremendous basketball. Very bright future.

SIXTH MAN OF THE YEAR
1. Will Barton....my choice here. He's been consistent all year. Good energy, defense, scoring, dunking on people.
2. Jamal Crawford...has a good year. Let's hope he don't have a bad playoff like last year.
3. Enes Kanter...OKC needed scoring off the bench, we all thought that would be Dion Waiters lighting it up from three. But, it was Kanter scoring, rebounding, and playing defense.
4. Evan Turner....a big reason why the Celtics are playing well. Big guard play, assists, little things...setting picks, hustle, helping out.

MOST IMPROVED PLAYER
1. C.J. McCollum....gets the nod here.
2. Kemba Walker....had a great year here also.
3. Ian Mahinmi....also, a very good year!
4. Step Curry...yes, he has improved! wow!

basch152
04-13-2016, 03:13 PM
How is 50-45-90 not a crazy stat line?

Doesn't curry have the most points per shot in nba history?

How can you aruge westbrook, a questionable efficiency player deserves an MVP over a player who is arguably the most efficient player ever, and who is leading his team to the most, or tied for the most wins in one season.

Btw, he'll be joining durant and bird as the only player to get 40 50 90 while averaging 25+.

And he might become the only player ever to get 40 5p 90 while averaging 30 ppg...

ewing
04-13-2016, 03:24 PM
I'm sorry but if Curry only played 41 games this season would he win MVP? Heck no. If a player can't get MVP for only playing half the season a coach shouldn't be able to get COY for coaching half a season.

Luke Walton's Wikipedia says he went 39-4 when Kerr resumed coaching duties. So Kerr is 33-5 and potentially 34-5. Either way, Walton actually led the team to a better record than Kerr did on the sideline.

He should and will eventually win the COY award, but it shouldn't be for coaching half a season when your assistant comes in and has a better record than you do.

What if Curry went to some of the practices when he was out and gave Klay advice?

FlashBolt
04-13-2016, 06:48 PM
Brad should get the COTY. Sorry but what this man has done with the Celtics has been overachieved. Steve Kerr getting this just shows that the only criteria that matters is the record.. which I don't think is enough to take into consideration of actual coaching ability. Don't want to hear it about the guy "sending text and advice" while he's at home eating chicken noodle soup. Give me a break.

As for MVP, I do think Curry deserves it realistically but when I think about it, when Curry has one rough game, his team usually still has a very favorable chance of winning any game. When LeBron has one rough game, they are pretty much going to struggle big-time. Their record without LeBron this season is 1-4 (won by one point vs Dallas). And the LAME-O in earlier post even suggested that LeBron is playing on a "stacked" team with Love and Irving. Not making a case for Bron at all since Curry should be the favorite but I feel he's being slighted big time here. Kawhi? I'll get plenty of hate from people but I don't think he is the 2nd MVP in this league. He's a top five player but I don't see how he is as responsible for the Spurs success as much as how LeBron is for his respective team.

prodigy
04-14-2016, 01:16 AM
So Lebron has played really well for a few weeks of meaningless basketball when his team already had the 1 seed locked up.

They did not have 1 seed locked up. they just clinched it last game lol




You're right Westbrook destroys everyone in triple doubles. Give him the MVP.... And make sure Draymond gets runner up. Rondo and The Greek Freek definitely need to be 3 and 4 also. Curry only has 2 so i don't think he should even crack the top 10.

Are any of those guys on Westbrook's Level? thanks, BTW never said Westbrook was MVP lol

prodigy
04-14-2016, 01:19 AM
Pls explain how Lebron does it by himself when he has Love, Irving, ect. He even has a defensive specialist in Shumpert.
I don't get the no love for the raps. Even if it's just Casey.

Well they play like complete garbage whenever LeBrons not in the game. Because Raps have no shot sorry.

prodigy
04-14-2016, 01:20 AM
5. Draymond Green...has just been awesome this year, triple-doubles, defense, hustle, leadership....I can go on and on.

Explain the bolded part please lol

prodigy
04-14-2016, 01:24 AM
Brad should get the COTY. Sorry but what this man has done with the Celtics has been overachieved. Steve Kerr getting this just shows that the only criteria that matters is the record.. which I don't think is enough to take into consideration of actual coaching ability. Don't want to hear it about the guy "sending text and advice" while he's at home eating chicken noodle soup. Give me a break.

As for MVP, I do think Curry deserves it realistically but when I think about it, when Curry has one rough game, his team usually still has a very favorable chance of winning any game. When LeBron has one rough game, they are pretty much going to struggle big-time. Their record without LeBron this season is 1-4 (won by one point vs Dallas). And the LAME-O in earlier post even suggested that LeBron is playing on a "stacked" team with Love and Irving. Not making a case for Bron at all since Curry should be the favorite but I feel he's being slighted big time here. Kawhi? I'll get plenty of hate from people but I don't think he is the 2nd MVP in this league. He's a top five player but I don't see how he is as responsible for the Spurs success as much as how LeBron is for his respective team.

This, you just worded it better then me lol

FlashBolt
04-14-2016, 01:24 AM
I'm not a fan of two players being on the same team both being in a top five MVP list unless it was a Kobe+Shaq type effort carrying a bunch of nobodies. Warriors collectively aren't nobodies so if you have Draymond in your top five, just how valuable is Curry?

Aust
04-14-2016, 01:36 AM
C's/Blazers/Spurs coach for COTY

Htownballa1622
04-14-2016, 11:33 AM
I'm sorry but if Curry only played 41 games this season would he win MVP? Heck no. If a player can't get MVP for only playing half the season a coach shouldn't be able to get COY for coaching half a season.

Luke Walton's Wikipedia says he went 39-4 when Kerr resumed coaching duties. So Kerr is 33-5 and potentially 34-5. Either way, Walton actually led the team to a better record than Kerr did on the sideline.

He should and will eventually win the COY award, but it shouldn't be for coaching half a season when your assistant comes in and has a better record than you do.

I disagree. Coaching and playing is different. Players get judged on court.

Coaches are judged on results which can mean off court too.

They just finished up having the greatest regular season and if u think it's not based on HIS SYSTEM then idk.

His team is great but they weren't this great when Jackson was the coach.

I get Luke did well as a placeholder but Kerr is the architect.

Kerr should win it.

valade16
04-14-2016, 01:55 PM
I disagree. Coaching and playing is different. Players get judged on court.

Coaches are judged on results which can mean off court too.

They just finished up having the greatest regular season and if u think it's not based on HIS SYSTEM then idk.

His team is great but they weren't this great when Jackson was the coach.

I get Luke did well as a placeholder but Kerr is the architect.

Kerr should win it.

So if a coach implemented his system in the offseason and didn't coach a game based on that he should be able to win COY?

Kerr will eventually win a COY award, but it shouldn't be for the year he only coaches half the games. We will just have to agree to disagree on this point I suppose.

Htownballa1622
04-14-2016, 11:21 PM
So if a coach implemented his system in the offseason and didn't coach a game based on that he should be able to win COY?

Kerr will eventually win a COY award, but it shouldn't be for the year he only coaches half the games. We will just have to agree to disagree on this point I suppose.

Coaching 0 games is much different than missing the initial months.

I agree he will but I think it will be this year. It's the greatest regular season ever. Why not this year?

But I hear ya. There are many legitimate candidates. I guess we'll see how it plays out.

FlashBolt
04-14-2016, 11:28 PM
Criteria of winning games is always the #1 factor for MVP and COTY. By this theory, Kerr wins. If you ask me, Pop or Brad should win.

Scoots
04-15-2016, 12:44 AM
over the last couple weeks in crunch time LeBron is avg 28-8-8. he's on another level right now.

Westbrook also destroys Curry in triple doubles.

LeBron almost single handily beats teams by himself and can lead subpar teams to the finals. Curry can't sorry.

Not that it's the be-all-end-all of stats, but I was surprised to see that among players with at least 1500 3pt attempts Westbrook is the 4th worst 3pt shooter of all time. He's shooting well below the Mendoza line and still put up 341 3s this year. Westbrook is the 13th best 3pt shooter on the Thunder but the only person who put up more is Durant. Westbrook is totally amazing and an MVP finalist no doubt, but sometimes I wonder what he's thinking.

FlashBolt
04-15-2016, 01:03 AM
Not that it's the be-all-end-all of stats, but I was surprised to see that among players with at least 1500 3pt attempts Westbrook is the 4th worst 3pt shooter of all time. He's shooting well below the Mendoza line and still put up 341 3s this year. Westbrook is the 13th best 3pt shooter on the Thunder but the only person who put up more is Durant. Westbrook is totally amazing and an MVP finalist no doubt, but sometimes I wonder what he's thinking.

Part of what makes Westbrook great is he doesn't think about his shot selection, though. He just plays and more often than not, it works in his favor.

valade16
04-15-2016, 02:20 PM
Criteria of winning games is always the #1 factor for MVP and COTY. By this theory, Kerr wins. If you ask me, Pop or Brad should win.

by that measure Pop, Brad and Stotts all won more games than Kerr this season.

Chronz
04-15-2016, 04:10 PM
Part of what makes Westbrook great is he doesn't think about his shot selection, though. He just plays and more often than not, it works in his favor.Wat makes you Think he doesn't think about shot selection. You don't think it's improved over the years? You don't think he absorbed anything from Durant in that regard