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View Full Version : Pistons back in playoffs for first time since 08-09



Howard_Zinn
04-08-2016, 09:51 PM
Congrats to Stan Van Gundy and Detroit.

HouRealCoach
04-08-2016, 09:59 PM
I hope they get to the second round

JWO35
04-08-2016, 10:37 PM
SVG has brought this team out of the Dumars Dark Ages faster than I thought he would...can't wait to see some playoff basketball from the Pistons again!

spreadeagle
04-08-2016, 10:44 PM
hes made some great moves, they will get smoked by my Raptors in the playoffs if they play them though, but good for them none the less

ewing
04-08-2016, 10:46 PM
big fan

Aust
04-08-2016, 11:52 PM
Good to see Detroit back there again. As OP said, it's been awhile.

PurpleLynch
04-09-2016, 05:57 AM
Nice,I like this. Pistons are a fun and young team that will benefit from this playoffs experience.

GoferKing_
04-09-2016, 06:03 AM
Nice. Good job Stan and the whole organization. You deserved it. I will root for you in the POs. Shame, my Kings are so incompetent...

MonroeFAN
04-09-2016, 10:29 AM
hes made some great moves, they will get smoked by my Raptors in the playoffs if they play them though, but good for them none the less



Didn't realize Steel City was in Canada.

Don't really have the greatest playoff track record now do you?

JasonJohnHorn
04-09-2016, 10:49 AM
SVG has brought this team out of the Dumars Dark Ages faster than I thought he would...can't wait to see some playoff basketball from the Pistons again!

Dark age? You realize that Dumars got this team a championship, back-to-back finals appearances, and SIX straight conference finals appearances. The 'dark ages'?

The only teams that saw more success than the Pistons while Dumars was in charge were the Lakers, the Spurs and the Heat.

He was rebuilding and had his hands tied by the Donaldson, who wouldn't let him re-sign Ben Wallace, then pressured him to use the cap space he had following the Iverson trade to sign whoever was available, which wasn't much. And then he had to deal with new management and an expectation to win immediately or lose his job, so he swung for the fences with the Smith/Jennings additions. And the ownership brought Phil Jackson in to find a 'new coach' (Cheeks). That wasn't Dumars.

And had Donaldson allows Dumars to re-sign Ben, than Kobe may have okayed the trade that would have sent him to Detroit. A trade Dumars worked out and would have brought Detroit another ring almost certainly.

The Smith signing wasn't bad; Smith just became a bad player. Had he played as well in Detroit as he had in Atlanta, Detroit would have been a playoff team.

The only mistakes that Dumars made was passing up on Klay, and drafting Darko. The Klay mistakes was on him, but any number of teams were picking Darko.


There are only 3 active GMs who have won more championships than Dumars, and only 6 who have won a championship.

Dumars is in pretty rare company as far as GMs go, and considering that he had a huge job cut out for him, and that Detroit is not a free agent destination, I'd say he did an amazing job.

'Dark ages' is not a fair assessment.


And keep in mind, that SVG actually had a WORSE record last year than Cheeks put up. I'm happy to see Detroit back in the playoffs, and I know Dumars was struggling a little, but I don't think it's fair to $#!T on all the AMAZING work he did while in Detroit. If he were running a team like New York or LA where free agents were likely to flock, and the ownership was willing to spend, he would have seen far more success.

Happy to see the Pistons back in the playoffs, but there's no need to dump on Dumars to celebrate this accomplishment.

JasonJohnHorn
04-09-2016, 10:59 AM
I'm curious to see how Drummond and Jackson respond to the pressure.

If they had a couple of stronger 3pt shooter, I think SVG could get this team to the conference finals. if they weren't facing the Cavs in the first round.


I hate when Detroit and Toronto play each other in the playoffs.... I don't know who to root for.
I went to a game back in 02 when the Pistons and Raptors played in the playoffs, in Detroit. SO many Toronto fans in that building. When the Pistons were on offence, you could hear the crowd chanting defence. It was quite odd. So many Canadian flags and purple jerseys in the crowd that night.


Hopefully free agency will bring in some pieces that Detroit can really build on.

MonroeFAN
04-09-2016, 11:49 AM
Don't know who to root for? What the ? Go be a half assed fan for another organization.

And drop this "SVG had a worse record than cheeks" nonsense. Year 1 of SVG was a feeling out process, and if that wasn't obvious to you than no one needs to hear your basketball related opinion as often as we do. SVG has twice the amount of expectations and responsibilities. As soon as he got the players he wanted he performed to our expectations. There are zero valid comparisons to make between Cheeks and SVG or the state of our franchise when they were at the helm.

JasonJohnHorn
04-09-2016, 02:21 PM
Don't know who to root for? What the ? Go be a half assed fan for another organization.

And drop this "SVG had a worse record than cheeks" nonsense. Year 1 of SVG was a feeling out process, and if that wasn't obvious to you than no one needs to hear your basketball related opinion as often as we do. SVG has twice the amount of expectations and responsibilities. As soon as he got the players he wanted he performed to our expectations. There are zero valid comparisons to make between Cheeks and SVG or the state of our franchise when they were at the helm.


Yes... I'm from Canada, so I root for the Raptors; and I live in Windsor so I grew up on the Pistons. Sorry if that doesn't make me a big enough fan for you. Besides, I'm more fan of the game.


And yes... it was a feeling out process.... was Cheek's. It was his first season after all, no?

And if you think there are zero points of comparison, I can think of several: Jennings, Singler, Monroe, Smith, Drummond. But you are right, Cheeks didn't have Jackson, Augustine, or Butler. So how could be be expected to do as much? And he was given zero room to fail from the starting gate, where as SVG was allowed to take a step back.


But you're right. There no 'valid' comparisons to make.


Look... SVG is doing a good job, but getting this team into the playoffs isn't a miracle. And a lot of what he's doing is an extension of what Dumars set up for him. Namely Drummond.

Kush McDaniels
04-09-2016, 03:00 PM
Raptors gotta take them seriously. No more of this losing in the first round ****.

Blink
04-09-2016, 03:15 PM
Yeah much rather have Toronto due to their 1st round misfortunes but still only think it's only a 5 maybe 6 game series.

R. Johnson#3
04-09-2016, 03:31 PM
They will be a top 5 team in the East next year.

5ass
04-09-2016, 03:50 PM
Good step for their team development, but can they become contenders? I wouldn't be terribly surprised because Stan has been great, and I said in the off season that they would most likely make the play offs, but I just don't really like Jackson and Drummond. Not that they're bad players, but I'm not sure I'd want them to be the most important pieces to a core.

Howard_Zinn
04-09-2016, 03:57 PM
Good step for their team development, but can they become contenders? I wouldn't be terribly surprised because Stan has been great, and I said in the off season that they would most likely make the play offs, but I just don't really like Jackson and Drummond. Not that they're bad players, but I'm not sure I'd want them to be the most important pieces to a core.

Jackson is clutch in the 4th quarter. Top 3 in the NBA in that regard..

5ass
04-09-2016, 04:03 PM
Jackson is clutch in the 4th quarter. Top 3 in the NBA in that regard..

Ok.. but I still wouldn't want him as a #1 option if I'm building a real contender. JMO

Howard_Zinn
04-09-2016, 04:03 PM
Drummond pouts a bit. Tobias, Jackson, Pope, Morris play their ***** off.

Blink
04-09-2016, 04:07 PM
Ok.. but I still wouldn't want him as a #1 option if I'm building a real contender. JMO

We will never win with Reggie being our #1 scoring option. Drummond FT shooting will be exposed heavily in whatever series we end up in.

But it's a nice core that I'm glad we have and realize we will have to give up some of it to land a better contending option.

5ass
04-09-2016, 04:16 PM
We will never win with Reggie being our #1 scoring option. Drummond FT shooting will be exposed heavily in whatever series we end up in.

But it's a nice core that I'm glad we have and realize we will have to give up some of it to land a better contending option.

Agreed. With Drummond about to hit FA and get a max contract, and taking on Tobias' contract, they're quickly losing cap space. So yeah I think a trade is most likely to take this team to championship contention.

DetroitBadBoy
04-09-2016, 04:32 PM
I like our matchup with the Cavs over Toronto. We have 4 guys who can get in front of LeBron and mitigate him with Morris, Tobias, Stanley, and KCP. Reggie and Kyrie matchup is basically an offensive battle all game. Now that we have Tobias, we have a great option for defending Love. Either way, I'm ready for some playoff basketball.

JWO35
04-09-2016, 06:01 PM
Dark age? You realize that Dumars got this team a championship, back-to-back finals appearances, and SIX straight conference finals appearances. The 'dark ages'?

The only teams that saw more success than the Pistons while Dumars was in charge were the Lakers, the Spurs and the Heat.

He was rebuilding and had his hands tied by the Donaldson, who wouldn't let him re-sign Ben Wallace, then pressured him to use the cap space he had following the Iverson trade to sign whoever was available, which wasn't much. And then he had to deal with new management and an expectation to win immediately or lose his job, so he swung for the fences with the Smith/Jennings additions. And the ownership brought Phil Jackson in to find a 'new coach' (Cheeks). That wasn't Dumars.

And had Donaldson allows Dumars to re-sign Ben, than Kobe may have okayed the trade that would have sent him to Detroit. A trade Dumars worked out and would have brought Detroit another ring almost certainly.

The Smith signing wasn't bad; Smith just became a bad player. Had he played as well in Detroit as he had in Atlanta, Detroit would have been a playoff team.

The only mistakes that Dumars made was passing up on Klay, and drafting Darko. The Klay mistakes was on him, but any number of teams were picking Darko.


There are only 3 active GMs who have won more championships than Dumars, and only 6 who have won a championship.

Dumars is in pretty rare company as far as GMs go, and considering that he had a huge job cut out for him, and that Detroit is not a free agent destination, I'd say he did an amazing job.

'Dark ages' is not a fair assessment.


And keep in mind, that SVG actually had a WORSE record last year than Cheeks put up. I'm happy to see Detroit back in the playoffs, and I know Dumars was struggling a little, but I don't think it's fair to $#!T on all the AMAZING work he did while in Detroit. If he were running a team like New York or LA where free agents were likely to flock, and the ownership was willing to spend, he would have seen far more success.

Happy to see the Pistons back in the playoffs, but there's no need to dump on Dumars to celebrate this accomplishment.
I stand by my "Dumars Dark Age" comment...I don't devalue what he did for this franchise from 2003-2008, but anything after that he completely turned the Pistons into a circus. I understand the ownership thing that kinda handcuffed him in trades and free agent signings, but you can't make excuses on his piss poor drafting(yes I know he drafted Drummond [insert blind squirrel finding the nut joke]) combine with the crap trades and signings he was given the green light to do. Not to mention his revolving door at Head Coach once we fired Flip was fired...

basketballkitty
04-09-2016, 06:43 PM
Detroit has to be very careful going forward. I Am NOT a huge Drummand fan. He is a average defensive Center, and he is a MAJOR Hindrance for them late in close games with his terrible FT shooting. Giving him a Max offer is very Iffy. He'll get it. And they will be a marginal team going forward. But, is 38-44 wins a year for the next 10 years what you want ???

Sadds The Gr8
04-09-2016, 06:48 PM
I like our matchup with the Cavs over Toronto. We have 4 guys who can get in front of LeBron and mitigate him with Morris, Tobias, Stanley, and KCP. Reggie and Kyrie matchup is basically an offensive battle all game. Now that we have Tobias, we have a great option for defending Love. Either way, I'm ready for some playoff basketball.
You have a way better chance to beat us than the Cavs...

Blink
04-09-2016, 06:55 PM
I like our matchup with the Cavs over Toronto. We have 4 guys who can get in front of LeBron and mitigate him with Morris, Tobias, Stanley, and KCP. Reggie and Kyrie matchup is basically an offensive battle all game. Now that we have Tobias, we have a great option for defending Love. Either way, I'm ready for some playoff basketball.

You're underestimating postseason LeBron. I still have nightmares from 07.

CityofTreez
04-09-2016, 07:41 PM
Congrats to the Pistons and their fans.

basch152
04-09-2016, 09:41 PM
I'm curious to see how Drummond and Jackson respond to the pressure.

If they had a couple of stronger 3pt shooter, I think SVG could get this team to the conference finals. if they weren't facing the Cavs in the first round.


I hate when Detroit and Toronto play each other in the playoffs.... I don't know who to root for.
I went to a game back in 02 when the Pistons and Raptors played in the playoffs, in Detroit. SO many Toronto fans in that building. When the Pistons were on offence, you could hear the crowd chanting defence. It was quite odd. So many Canadian flags and purple jerseys in the crowd that night.


Hopefully free agency will bring in some pieces that Detroit can really build on.

Stronger 3 pt shooters?

Hasn't morris been shooting over 60% from 3 since we acquired harris?

Harris is as good of a 3pt shooting PF as you'll find.

And one of kcps biggest strengths when drafted was 3pt shooting.

Unless you mean he needs to have the best shooters in the nba...

NYKnickFanatic
04-09-2016, 09:41 PM
We know Toronto is a really good regular season team. Will be interesting to see if the Pistons can upset them in the first round.

Wade n Fade
04-10-2016, 01:32 AM
Joe Dumars really set that franchise back quite a bit, so it took a little longer than the Pistons' fanbase wanted to wait for their squad to make the playoffs. SVG is a great coach, but people will always give him **** about being too reliant on three point shooting and mismanaging the 09 Finals.

JasonJohnHorn
04-10-2016, 09:34 AM
Stronger 3 pt shooters?

Hasn't morris been shooting over 60% from 3 since we acquired harris?

Harris is as good of a 3pt shooting PF as you'll find.

And one of kcps biggest strengths when drafted was 3pt shooting.

Unless you mean he needs to have the best shooters in the nba...

I hadn't realized. That is amazing for Morris

Still... I have concerns that there aren't enough guys to spread the floor, and the season ave for Morris and Harris is .360, which is good, but nobody on the team shoots .400. Jackson and Toliver have decent 3pth shots, and Bullock is great, but he doesn't play much.


My issue is that they have a few guys who shoot around .350, but I feel like if they had a couple that shot .400, then SVG could really take advantage of that.

I know .350 and .360 sound great, and if this were 2000, they'd be one of the best 3-pt shooting teams in the league, but today's standards are higher. The Cavs have 3 guys shoot over .400 and another shooting .380, and James has brought his up over the last quarter of th season. So yeah... a few guys shooting .350 isn't good eough.

Lowry has a better percentage than anybody on the Pistons, as do Carroll and Ross.

So... do they have to have the best? No. But they have to have something better than the teams they are likely to face.

You have to put it into context. And just becauee Pope was drafted for three point shooting doesn't mean he's good at it. He's shooting .300. I mean, Dumars brought Datome in because he was one of the best 3pt shooters in Europe, then he shot .120?

Look at what the Raptors and Cavs got... it's not like Detroit is top five in the league on 3-pt shooting. Bot of the teams they are facing have at least three or four guys who shoot better than anybody on Detroit.

JasonJohnHorn
04-10-2016, 09:38 AM
Joe Dumars really set that franchise back quite a bit, so it took a little longer than the Pistons' fanbase wanted to wait for their squad to make the playoffs. SVG is a great coach, but people will always give him **** about being too reliant on three point shooting and mismanaging the 09 Finals.

I don't get why people want to dump on Dumars. It is a small market team that is hard to get free agents to, and he built a title contender, won a ring, got the the conference finals 6 years in a row, and then the team fell apart because of aging, ownership demands, changes in ownership, and a couple of bad signings that were done under pressure.


Dumars put together a champion. Let's wait until SVG does that before we bash Dumars and go on about how much better SVG is.
Dumars has accomplished something only 6 current GMs have manages, which means he's done more than the other 24.

lakerfan85
04-10-2016, 10:09 AM
Joe dumars drafted Darko over Melo, Bosh, and Wade..

Lim
04-10-2016, 11:31 AM
The detroit pistons will beat the Toronto raptors.

JasonJohnHorn
04-10-2016, 12:33 PM
Joe dumars drafted Darko over Melo, Bosh, and Wade..

And a lot of GM's and draft boards had Darko going second.

If you say a GM is bad just because he drafted a bust ahead of an All-Star, then pretty much every GM is awful.

The draft is a crap shoot, and while some GM's are much better than others, every one has missed the boat with a couple of key picks.


I have more of an issue with Dumars drafting Knight over Klay because most people had Klay going ahead of Knight. But with Darko, a lot of people had him going in the top three.


But look at what Dumars has done. He picked up Prince, Maxiell, Amir Johnson, Greg Monroe, Andre Drummond, Kris Middleton. These guys turned into trade pieces and solid pieces. He shouldn't have traded Middleton, granted, but Frank made Middleton look like $#!T the way he played him. And Monroe could have been a great trade piece a couple of seasons back, but the coach that the ownership brought in (Cheeks) wasn't using him properly and then SVG held onto him all season when he could have, at the very least, gotten a pick out of the deal instead of losing him to free agency.

SVG is doing a fine job. The team is progressing. But had Dumars been able to make deals after Davison passed (his wife didn't want Dumars committing money long term when she was selling the team), and had the new ownership not put a timeline on Dumars and given him the space that they then gave to SVG, then things would have been drastically different.

Again... Dumars had his hands tied in a lot of situations. The Kobe trade for example; had Davison let Dumars give Ben the money he wanted, Kobe would have been far more likely to take that deal because he wanted to play with Billups, Ben, and Sheed. And the Josh Smith signing was a good signing; there was just no way to see that his performance would tank that badly, and the fact that the ownership brought Phil Jackson in to essentially pick the coach for the team Dumars was putting together was a recipe for disaster.



At the end of the day, only three active GMs in this league have seen more success than Dumars, and given that he took over a team that just lost a franchise player, and managed to turn them into a champion within five years in a market that has a hard time getting free agents, and that he managed to build that contender when his highest draft pick was #9 is impressive (the 2nd pick came after he already put the team together and it was Philly's pick).

Every GM makes mistakes with the exception of Jerry West. I'm not saying Dumars is the greatest, but the way people trash him just shows that people only remember the last thing you did or the worst thing you didn, even after you've done any number of amazing things.

Isiah Thomas was a horrid GM. Rip on him all you want. He screwed up the Raptors and the Knicks. But there's no need to hate on Dumars for not being perfect when he's accomplished more than 24 of the GMs currently in the game. That's like hating on the 7th or 6th best player in the league because even those he's better than 95% of the league, he's not as good as the best guy.

Blink
04-10-2016, 12:34 PM
KCP needs to get wayyyy more consistent from 3. Love his energy/defense.

If we were to pull outhe another trade from no where I'd say it's for a better SG.

beasted86
04-10-2016, 12:44 PM
Pistons have a solid team, but I agree SG is the weak spot. Caldwell Pope and the constant injured Meeks is not enough.

I would have tried to swing a deal for Eric Gordon using those 2 at the deadline with fillers. Pelicans would have probably taken KCP rather than lose Gordon for nothing this summer.

Wade n Fade
04-10-2016, 01:20 PM
Joe dumars drafted Darko over Melo, Bosh, and Wade..

He also signed Charlie Villaneuva and Ben Gordon to expensive contracts. Brandon Jennings wreeks of Dumar desperation too. There something to be said from being champs to becoming a laughing stock, it is Al Davis esque.

JasonJohnHorn
04-10-2016, 01:43 PM
He also signed Charlie Villaneuva and Ben Gordon to expensive contracts. Brandon Jennings wreeks of Dumar desperation too. There something to be said from being champs to becoming a laughing stock, it is Al Davis esque.

Davison wanted the team to stay in the playoffs and gave Dumars marching order to use the cap space generated from the Iverson trade THAT offseason. If you remember, the only notable player available was Odom, and Dumars when after him hard, but he chose to stay in LAL.

That left Dumars with few options.

It was the same thing when the new ownership came in. They essentially told Dumars to get back in the playoffs or lose his job. Had they said the same thing to SVG, do you think he would have been making the best moves for the long term? Of course not.

The ownership has to take ownership for the culture they create.

The bottom line is no GM in this league has put together a team that made it to 6-straight conference finals.


Now... is there a reason we have to turn this 'congrats to the Pistons and SVG' thread into a 'let's $#!T on Joe Dumars' thread?

Blink
04-10-2016, 01:48 PM
I'm a Pistons fan but you can argue the East was pretty damn weak in that stretch. Amazing nonetheless but it wasn't the western conference.

spreadeagle
04-10-2016, 09:28 PM
Didn't realize Steel City was in Canada.

Don't really have the greatest playoff track record now do you?

Im from the Canadian Steel town, Hamilton lol

ombada
04-11-2016, 05:12 AM
If the season ended today they would be playing the cavs. Pacers have the tie breaker and play the knicks and Bucks.

Pistons play the Heat and Cavs.

i would say its more likely the the Pistons end up in the 8th playing the Cavs.

JWO35
04-11-2016, 08:58 PM
If the season ended today they would be playing the cavs. Pacers have the tie breaker and play the knicks and Bucks.

Pistons play the Heat and Cavs.

i would say its more likely the the Pistons end up in the 8th playing the Cavs.
This
Pacers last 2 games are way easier than the Pistons, hopefully you guys slip up tho :p

But I fully anticipate a Cavs v Pistons 1st round matchup

Chronz
04-11-2016, 09:18 PM
You guys aren't a fan of kcp?

JWO35
04-11-2016, 10:13 PM
You guys aren't a fan of kcp?

A good majority of Piston fans are pro-KCP(some view him as untouchable)...but there are some(like me) that are skeptical of him as a full time starting SG. There's no question he's a legit defender, but he's too inconsistent IMO on the offensive side of the ball to be a full-time starter.

I would prefer him as a 6th man, he's tradable in my eyes but he's far form a filler/throw-in.

Wade n Fade
04-11-2016, 10:20 PM
Davison wanted the team to stay in the playoffs and gave Dumars marching order to use the cap space generated from the Iverson trade THAT offseason. If you remember, the only notable player available was Odom, and Dumars when after him hard, but he chose to stay in LAL.

That left Dumars with few options.

It was the same thing when the new ownership came in. They essentially told Dumars to get back in the playoffs or lose his job. Had they said the same thing to SVG, do you think he would have been making the best moves for the long term? Of course not.

The ownership has to take ownership for the culture they create.

The bottom line is no GM in this league has put together a team that made it to 6-straight conference finals.


Now... is there a reason we have to turn this 'congrats to the Pistons and SVG' thread into a 'let's $#!T on Joe Dumars' thread?

If LeBron wouldn't have ran out of town, Miami would be the heads on Eastern Conference favorite year in year out. It will happen again if he or KD form a new "superteam" in the Eastern Conference. I think Larry Brown deserves more credit than Dumars.

prodigy
04-13-2016, 04:44 AM
If LeBron wouldn't have ran out of town, Miami would be the heads on Eastern Conference favorite year in year out. It will happen again if he or KD form a new "superteam" in the Eastern Conference. I think Larry Brown deserves more credit than Dumars.

Cavs are east fav year in and year out lol. I mean are you really picking someone to beat them. I feel a sig bet sir???