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CodeRed
04-02-2016, 11:32 PM
Barnes was a highly touted High School player who was expected to be the "next big thing", and an eventual number one pick. He's disappointed a bit but has still been a quality player. I'm expecting him to get a pretty substantial offer in free agency that I'm assuming the Warriors can't/won't match. I'm just wondering what everyone's opinion is on what his ceiling may be. I haven't seen much of his game so I'm also interested in his strengths and weaknesses at this current time. Could his game improve when he's not surrounded by stars? He's the fourth option in his starting lineup, but could he excel is a second option?

Alayla
04-02-2016, 11:38 PM
That's a really compelling question my gut says 3rd option but he has all the tools you would want for him to evolve into a 2nd guy on a contender or a first on a playoff 8th seed i really feel like he is a guy that his ceiling is wherever he wants it to be but i think given his skillset now he is in an ideal situation.

naps
04-03-2016, 02:54 AM
I happen to think the team that offers him the crazy contract this off-season will regret. In other words, he will be overpaid vastly. He is the 5th best on their starting 5. Bogut doesnt put up huge stats but dont be fooled, he morphed his game according their needs. IIRC, they were starting Brandon Rush while Barnes was out and warriors were just being the warriors. Now, I do think he can be a 3rd option on offense on a contender given a larger role. But as a second option? Probably NOT.

greg_ory_2005
04-03-2016, 03:24 AM
I see him as an Ariza type. A really good role player, but should no way be one of your top options (example Ariza the first time in Houston). He's best at around 4th option, where he isn't the focus and can just hit open shots and play defense.

sep11ie
04-03-2016, 03:36 AM
I see him as an Ariza type. A really good role player, but should no way be one of your top options (example Ariza the first time in Houston). He's best at around 4th option, where he isn't the focus and can just hit open shots and play defense.

I was about to say this pretty much word for word man. I really thought I was reading my post before I typed it.

Heediot
04-03-2016, 07:44 AM
He is more of a glue guy role player. A very poor version of Kawhi/Butler. The current situation is the ideal scenario you want him in. As a fourth option who knows his role. He will be paid like a number 2 option, but the team that gets him will probably regret it.

North Yorker
04-03-2016, 09:36 AM
I think he would fit in well in either Portland or New Orleans but yea he will definitely be overpaid.

hugepatsfan
04-03-2016, 10:29 AM
I can see BOS making a run depending on how their pursuit of bigger names go. I think he'd fit really well in Stevens system as that 3/4 hybrid. Would open up some interesting possibilities with him and Crowder at the forward spots. We're going to have like $40M of cap space even if we pick up Amir Johnson's bloated player option. Ainge is going to want to use his cap space in the next couple of years because they have a lot of guys expiring in 2-3 seasons that will take up the cap space once they re-sign to bigger deals. So while he'll still want to maintain flexibility to sign a true stud FA should one want to come to Boston, I think he'll start to get more and more willing to overpay for a guy like Barnes just to lock in another quality piece before the cap is gone with nothing to show for it.

Vinylman
04-03-2016, 03:29 PM
I happen to think the team that offers him the crazy contract this off-season will regret. In other words, he will be overpaid vastly. He is the 5th best on their starting 5. Bogut doesnt put up huge stats but dont be fooled, he morphed his game according their needs. IIRC, they were starting Brandon Rush while Barnes was out and warriors were just being the warriors. Now, I do think he can be a 3rd option on offense on a contender given a larger role. But as a second option? Probably NOT.

regret? nah...

if he signs elsewhere it will be for only 4 years and will also have the effect of bringing GS back to the pack... brandon rush is no barnes over and 82 game season

additionally, if he really sucks it is obvious by his third year that there will be another amnesty provision due to the expected new CBA.

JasonJohnHorn
04-03-2016, 03:41 PM
Barnes is a big fish is a lake with some giant fish.

The guy's shot was a little off this year, but he was coming back from injury and had a slow start. I think he is also out of sorts because when Jackson was coaching, it looked like he was going to be the third option and big part of the team, but then Kerr moved Green up when Lee went down, and he got the shot that I think Barnes was expecting.


But when you look at what he does: he's a solid 3pt shooter (and could be great), a solid rebounder for his position, he's a strong passed, and though his assists are meagre (2.2 per36), he has a better than 2-1 ast-trn ratio. He seems to be a coachable guy, so I expect his defense would improve dramatically under a guy like Pop or Thibs. And he shoots around .500 inside the arc.

He's not as good a shooter as Klay, and not as strong a defender as Green, so obviously Kerr is going to be favouring those guys. But that said, I think he's ready for a break out year. I expect he could be a solid first option on a fringe playoff team, and that could be a great second or third option on a contender. And if he were on a roster like the 04 Pistons, he could very well be the first option on a team like that (though a team like that only really comes around once every 20 years).


It's hard to shine when you are playing next to a once-in-a-generation player like Curry, the leagues best all-around player in Green, and perhaps the second best shooter the league has ever seen in Klay. But the fact that he's not causing friction and the team is winning if proof this guy is mature enough to be the kind of player you want on your team if you are building a champion.

greg_ory_2005
04-03-2016, 03:43 PM
I was about to say this pretty much word for word man. I really thought I was reading my post before I typed it.

:clap:

Kyben36
04-03-2016, 05:13 PM
ive allways liked barnes, but somebody will pay him max money, and he will be a huge disapointment like he has been thus far, he is an athletic wing shooter, who can defend, you can ask him to do too much, its just not his style. he is nothing more than a 4th option like he is today, no team will be able to work with him as their 3rd best player. ive heard some bulls fans say he is jimmy butler potential before, but thats just not true, he has had oportunites, and squandered them, he is fine with mediocrity, even though his teammates greatness should push him to want to be better.

Saddletramp
04-04-2016, 03:37 AM
I see him as an Ariza type. A really good role player, but should no way be one of your top options (example Ariza the first time in Houston). He's best at around 4th option, where he isn't the focus and can just hit open shots and play defense.


So $32M over 4 years, like Ariza is currently paid. Let's round up for (cap) inflation: $44M/4 years. Guarantee he gets more than that.

BKLYNpigeon
04-05-2016, 03:16 PM
Barnes will get a Max Deal and it won't be from the Warriors.

Hes offensively a bit limited, but plays good Defense, Can Guard the PF or Center at times and he's a good Rebounder.


He's still only 23 years old. Just one year older then Buddy Heild. lol


at best he could be a better version of Ariza.

or he could just end up being Jeff Green or Marvin Williams.

nycericanguy
04-05-2016, 03:57 PM
Reminds me of Jeff Green, I don't see star potential, he rarely even scores 15 and has many single digit outings. I get he's on a great team, but he doesn't show flashes of being a legit go to guy, if anything his %'s are inflated because he's almost an afterthought for defenses.

He'll get close to max though.

KG2TB
04-05-2016, 04:47 PM
Barnes is a big fish is a lake with some giant fish.

The guy's shot was a little off this year, but he was coming back from injury and had a slow start. I think he is also out of sorts because when Jackson was coaching, it looked like he was going to be the third option and big part of the team, but then Kerr moved Green up when Lee went down, and he got the shot that I think Barnes was expecting.


But when you look at what he does: he's a solid 3pt shooter (and could be great), a solid rebounder for his position, he's a strong passed, and though his assists are meagre (2.2 per36), he has a better than 2-1 ast-trn ratio. He seems to be a coachable guy, so I expect his defense would improve dramatically under a guy like Pop or Thibs. And he shoots around .500 inside the arc.

He's not as good a shooter as Klay, and not as strong a defender as Green, so obviously Kerr is going to be favouring those guys. But that said, I think he's ready for a break out year. I expect he could be a solid first option on a fringe playoff team, and that could be a great second or third option on a contender. And if he were on a roster like the 04 Pistons, he could very well be the first option on a team like that (though a team like that only really comes around once every 20 years).


It's hard to shine when you are playing next to a once-in-a-generation player like Curry, the leagues best all-around player in Green, and perhaps the second best shooter the league has ever seen in Klay. But the fact that he's not causing friction and the team is winning if proof this guy is mature enough to be the kind of player you want on your team if you are building a champion.

The only problem I have with this is due to the fact he is on such a great team that loves to move the ball around, and is surrounded with such great talent, his efficiency isn't anything special. It's average, and that's with him taking a back seat and having the luxury of a great supporting cast. If he goes to another team, and expected to be a bigger factor, his efficiency will almost assuredly go down. Unless he greatly improves his game. That's still possible, but he hasn't really shown major improvements over the past couple of seasons. He's been relatively the same player his whole career. I wouldn't even think about giving him a max contract.

dhopisthename
04-05-2016, 06:46 PM
with the new salary cap rise a max would start anywhere from 22-24 million. the days of mediocre players getting maxes will be mostly over. he will still get a ton because there will be a ton of teams with a ton of cap.

basketballkitty
04-05-2016, 07:03 PM
with the new salary cap rise a max would start anywhere from 22-24 million. the days of mediocre players getting maxes will be mostly over. he will still get a ton because there will be a ton of teams with a ton of cap.



He turned down 18 million a year from the Warriors before the season. Bad choice cause even with the Cap going up, I don't see Barnes getting anything near that in free agency. He's just not worth that.

greg_ory_2005
04-05-2016, 07:29 PM
So $32M over 4 years, like Ariza is currently paid. Let's round up for (cap) inflation: $44M/4 years. Guarantee he gets more than that.

Well of course he's gonna get a max or near max deal. He just isn't worth one

xxplayerxx23
04-05-2016, 08:05 PM
He's not bad. I think depending on the team he could be a 13-15 PPG scorer with good defense

Saddletramp
04-06-2016, 02:14 AM
Well of course he's gonna get a max or near max deal. He just isn't worth one

I know. He should be around that $11M per year but he'll sucker some team for around double that. I just hope the Warriors match.

Vinylman
04-06-2016, 09:56 AM
He turned down 18 million a year from the Warriors before the season. Bad choice cause even with the Cap going up, I don't see Barnes getting anything near that in free agency. He's just not worth that.

So many teams will have money this year that it will be virtually impossible for him to get less than $20 million per year...

Warriors will still have the advantage though because they can give him an extra year so there are trade-offs...

mrblisterdundee
04-06-2016, 11:52 AM
He can be a good three-and-D combo forward. I want the Blazers to make a hard run at him this summer.

JasonJohnHorn
04-06-2016, 07:10 PM
The only problem I have with this is due to the fact he is on such a great team that loves to move the ball around, and is surrounded with such great talent, his efficiency isn't anything special. It's average, and that's with him taking a back seat and having the luxury of a great supporting cast. If he goes to another team, and expected to be a bigger factor, his efficiency will almost assuredly go down. Unless he greatly improves his game. That's still possible, but he hasn't really shown major improvements over the past couple of seasons. He's been relatively the same player his whole career. I wouldn't even think about giving him a max contract.

Good points. I still think he's got it in him, but you raise some legit concerns. I think his inefficiency this year is in part due to his slow return to form after coming back from injury. But yea.... he seems to have dipped a little bit, and when you see a guy like Kevin Martin on a team where he is the 3rd of 4th option, his percentages go way up; as the first option, they go down.


At the same time, Harden seemed to manage pretty well without Westy and KD opening things up for him. Some players need a lot of shots to get a rhythm. Perhaps that is the case with Barnes.

Either way.... though I'd hate to see him leave GSW unless they got a better player to replace him, I am curious to see what this guy could do as the first or second option on a team.

JasonJohnHorn
04-06-2016, 07:12 PM
I know. He should be around that $11M per year but he'll sucker some team for around double that. I just hope the Warriors match.

People said the same thing about Harden. I remember peopel moaning: This guy has never even started, and he's making the max? Turns out it was a pretty good deal. And on the plus side for Barnes, he's a decent defender, unlike Harden.

dhopisthename
04-06-2016, 08:15 PM
People said the same thing about Harden. I remember peopel moaning: This guy has never even started, and he's making the max? Turns out it was a pretty good deal. And on the plus side for Barnes, he's a decent defender, unlike Harden.

harden in his 3rd year vs barnes in his 4th

harden put up 17/6/5 on an efg% of .582 ts% of .660
Barnes put up 11/2/5 on an efg% of .525 ts% of .555

they are in no way similar

Heediot
04-07-2016, 10:17 AM
His main weakness is ball handling. If he can improve that to a Derozan (who really sucked when he came into the league and gradually built it) level it will open up his game. This weakness makes him easier to defend and limits his full offensive potential. It will also help him get to the line more as well. If he could improve that facet of his game then he will be worth the fat contract he is going to get, other wise he will be a disappointment if you want him as a number 2 to help carry the offensive load. I don't think he lacks killer instincts from my intuition, I just think he doesn't have the fully developed arsenal to get his shot off when ever he wants most of the time. Other than that he has a well rounded game.

Hawkeye15
04-07-2016, 10:40 AM
I wouldn't mind my Wolves throwing him a 3 year, $36 million offer this summer, depending on where we land/pick in the draft. I think he could be a perfect 3 and D guy in between Wiggins and Towns, and has shown he can play either forward position.

JasonJohnHorn
04-07-2016, 02:01 PM
harden in his 3rd year vs barnes in his 4th

harden put up 17/6/5 on an efg% of .582 ts% of .660
Barnes put up 11/2/5 on an efg% of .525 ts% of .555

they are in no way similar

They are different players, certainly. But they are both players with the potential to do more than they were while playing in the shadow of great players.


I didn't say that Barnes was as good as Harden, just that Harden got similar criticism.

And worse for Barnes is that he's 4th option right now; Harden at least was the third option.


And those stats don't account for Harden's weak defense. You want to put out an argument with raw stats like that... go ahead.

And it's not like the Rockets lottery season is bolstering an argument that Harden's so great.

On top of that, Barnes has been over .500 inside the arc the last two seasons, and over .380 from beyond the arc. Harden has never had a season as good a Barnes's best season behind the arc, and his last two seasons are lower than Barnes from inside the arc.

Harden's a better rebounder and better passer, sure, but Barnes is a better defender.


But again... you are speaking to an argument I didn't make. I merely pointed to the fact that both were playing under the shadows and people are both questioning whether they were worth max-dollars before they ever got a chance to be a first option. That, whether you care to admit it, IS similar, and that is ALL I said.


If you want to argue that Harden is better, find somebody who said Barnes is better to do it with.

dhopisthename
04-07-2016, 06:40 PM
They are different players, certainly. But they are both players with the potential to do more than they were while playing in the shadow of great players.


I didn't say that Barnes was as good as Harden, just that Harden got similar criticism.

And worse for Barnes is that he's 4th option right now; Harden at least was the third option.


And those stats don't account for Harden's weak defense. You want to put out an argument with raw stats like that... go ahead.

And it's not like the Rockets lottery season is bolstering an argument that Harden's so great.

On top of that, Barnes has been over .500 inside the arc the last two seasons, and over .380 from beyond the arc. Harden has never had a season as good a Barnes's best season behind the arc, and his last two seasons are lower than Barnes from inside the arc.

Harden's a better rebounder and better passer, sure, but Barnes is a better defender.


But again... you are speaking to an argument I didn't make. I merely pointed to the fact that both were playing under the shadows and people are both questioning whether they were worth max-dollars before they ever got a chance to be a first option. That, whether you care to admit it, IS similar, and that is ALL I said.


If you want to argue that Harden is better, find somebody who said Barnes is better to do it with.

there are ways to quantify bad defense. They aren't perfect, but its pretty in line with what other stats say and what people think. like in 2014 harden has a negative 2.84 which lines up with what most people thought

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/year/2014/sort/RPM/position/2


whats funny if you look at this year Harrison Barnes he is a negative 1.18

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM/position/5

also harden had good per 36 numbers, elite efficiency, and showed that he had play making skills. Barnes has shown that the can shoot. sure he can be a 3&D guy, but not much else.

Chronz
04-07-2016, 07:04 PM
People said the same thing about Harden. I remember peopel moaning: This guy has never even started, and he's making the max? Turns out it was a pretty good deal. And on the plus side for Barnes, he's a decent defender, unlike Harden.

Harden was a decent defender when he didn't carry the entire offense. There were also other factors that hinted that Harden was just itching to break out that don't Apply to HB

europagnpilgrim
04-07-2016, 07:04 PM
I see him as an Ariza type. A really good role player, but should no way be one of your top options (example Ariza the first time in Houston). He's best at around 4th option, where he isn't the focus and can just hit open shots and play defense.

I see where you coming from but he is a much better post player and creator of his own shot than Ariza, Ariza can drive every now and then but he is mostly a spot and catch shooter and a nice defender

Barnes can do a little more offensively and he has the nba frame to be a good caliber defense, if his head is focused, with passers like Bogut and Curry and D Green he is playing his part until next season when some team overpays for his services, then he will show his abilities more so

but he is a at best quasi second but strong strong 3rd option

Monta is beast
04-08-2016, 03:01 AM
I dont want the warriors to go after kd i want barnes back. Thats the only way barnes leaves imo is if we get durant. he could put up numbers but i dont see him as a true #1 or #2. Hes so versatile tho, clutch, tenacious etc. I think his versatility is underrated