PDA

View Full Version : Is 02/03 Duncan the greatest solo merking ever?



sheesh
03-31-2016, 11:54 AM
Duncan won league MVP and Finals MVP that year.

Robinson was old and on the way out. Ginobili was a rookie and not very effective for some reason that year. He averaged 7PPG that year and 9PPG in the playoffs that year. And Parker had a horrible playoff run that year, really just horrible.

Bruce Bowen was the second best player on the championship team.

I watched some of the Spurs playoff run that year. And I got to say it was the greatest solo beatdown I've ever seen. The entire NBA just got merked by Duncan.

Hawkeye15
03-31-2016, 12:49 PM
the 94' Rockets team was basically Dream and some shooters

ewing
03-31-2016, 12:50 PM
What's merking? Sounds unsavory

sheesh
03-31-2016, 01:20 PM
the 94' Rockets team was basically Dream and some shooters

I'll have to look into that more then. Though 02 Spurs were basically a washed up Robinson. Rookies Parker (basically played like one) and Ginobili, a defensive specialist and Duncan.

sheesh
03-31-2016, 01:20 PM
What's merking? Sounds unsavory

Complete and undeniable domination.

Hawkeye15
03-31-2016, 01:31 PM
I'll have to look into that more then. Though 02 Spurs were basically a washed up Robinson. Rookies Parker (basically played like one) and Ginobili, a defensive specialist and Duncan.

If I remember right, Dream had a very young Horry, rookie Cassell, Otis, Vernon, etc. Duncan's year, and Dream's year, they were so far and away their teams best player.

The Spurs defense was nasty that year though, remember that.

ewing
03-31-2016, 01:39 PM
If I remember right, Dream had a very young Horry, rookie Cassell, Otis, Vernon, etc. Duncan's year, and Dream's year, they were so far and away their teams best player.

The Spurs defense was nasty that year though, remember that.

Dream had Horry, Sam I am, Mad Max, Kenny Smith, and Otis Thrope. I don't you can be the greatest one man show when you had a better supporting caste then the team it took you 7 games to beat in the finals

sheesh
03-31-2016, 01:44 PM
If I remember right, Dream had a very young Horry, rookie Cassell, Otis, Vernon, etc. Duncan's year, and Dream's year, they were so far and away their teams best player.

The Spurs defense was nasty that year though, remember that.

Tim Duncan being a top 1-3 defensive player of all time has some to do with that as well. And yes Bruce Bowen was a monster out on the perimeter defense too. But he was just a defensive specialist and was their second best player that year.

valade16
03-31-2016, 01:46 PM
Duncan's 02/03 Spurs run is up there for best individual performance of all time, but there are some comparable ones.

Tony Parker while young did contribute 15.5 PPG and they team had Parker, Ginobili, Stephen Jackson, D-Rob, Bowen, and Malike Rose. They also had Steve Smith, Steve Kerr and Kevin Willis on the bench. They still had a lot of veteran voices and players.

Hakeem's 94 Rockets had Otis Thorpe as their 2nd leading scorer at 14.0 PPG and the team also featured Vernon Maxwell, Kenny Smith, Sam Cassell, Mario Elie and Robert Horry.

But going back Rick Barry in 1975 was pretty remarkable as well. He averaged 30.6 PPG, 5.7 RPG, 6.2 APG on 46.4% FG and 90% FT. His 2nd leading scorer was a rookie Jamaal Wilkes at 14.2 PPG and the team featured Charles Johnson, Butch Beard, Clifford Ray and Jeff Mullins.

Those would be the top 3 in my opinion.

Here is their individual stats in that year compared for anyone who wants to take a look:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2003&p1=duncati01&y2=1994&p2=olajuha01&y3=1975&p3=barryri01&p4=&p5=&p6=

valade16
03-31-2016, 01:54 PM
Dream had Horry, Sam I am, Mad Max, Kenny Smith, and Otis Thrope. I don't you can be the greatest one man show when you had a better supporting caste then the team it took you 7 games to beat in the finals

That's no different than me saying "Duncan had David Robinson, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, Stephen Jackson, Bruce Bowen, Steve Smith, Steve Kerr and Kevin Willis!"

In reality, most of those players were really household names at the time:

That was Robert Horry's 2nd season in the league, Sam Cassell's rookie season (in which he averaged 17 MPG) and Kenny Smith is well... Kenny Smith.

You're right his supporting cast was about equal to Ewing's that season, but doesn't that argument also work against Duncan?

Duncan's Spurs beat one of the weakest Finals teams in recent memory in a Nets team that hadn't even won 50 games in a weak east and featured Kenyon Martin, Richard Jefferson, Kerry Kittles and a washed up Mutombo.

Duncan had a better supporting cast than the Finals team he faced too.

sheesh
03-31-2016, 01:57 PM
Duncan's 02/03 Spurs run is up there for best individual performance of all time, but there are some comparable ones.

Tony Parker while young did contribute 15.5 PPG and they team had Parker, Ginobili, Stephen Jackson, D-Rob, Bowen, and Malike Rose. They also had Steve Smith, Steve Kerr and Kevin Willis on the bench. They still had a lot of veteran voices and players.

Hakeem's 94 Rockets had Otis Thorpe as their 2nd leading scorer at 14.0 PPG and the team also featured Vernon Maxwell, Kenny Smith, Sam Cassell, Mario Elie and Robert Horry.

But going back Rick Barry in 1975 was pretty remarkable as well. He averaged 30.6 PPG, 5.7 RPG, 6.2 APG on 46.4% FG and 90% FT. His 2nd leading scorer was a rookie Jamaal Wilkes at 14.2 PPG and the team featured Charles Johnson, Butch Beard, Clifford Ray and Jeff Mullins.

Those would be the top 3 in my opinion.

Here is their individual stats in that year compared for anyone who wants to take a look:

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2003&p1=duncati01&y2=1994&p2=olajuha01&y3=1975&p3=barryri01&p4=&p5=&p6=

Sure, but were those guys any good at that point of their careers though? 02-03 Spurs was a unique situation where you had Duncan at his absolute apex, Robinson at his worse and Ginobili and Parker looking like complete prospects.

Yes, the names were there, but that's about it. Just the names and not the players we knew. Good post though.

Hawkeye15
03-31-2016, 01:58 PM
Dream had Horry, Sam I am, Mad Max, Kenny Smith, and Otis Thrope. I don't you can be the greatest one man show when you had a better supporting caste then the team it took you 7 games to beat in the finals

Sam was a rookie though, right? Horry wasn't Big Shot yet. If you go look at the numbers, there is a severe drop off in production from Dream to anyone else.

ewing
03-31-2016, 02:12 PM
That's no different than me saying "Duncan had David Robinson, Tony Parker, Manu Ginobili, Stephen Jackson, Bruce Bowen, Steve Smith, Steve Kerr and Kevin Willis!"

In reality, most of those players were really household names at the time:

That was Robert Horry's 2nd season in the league, Sam Cassell's rookie season (in which he averaged 17 MPG) and Kenny Smith is well... Kenny Smith.

You're right his supporting cast was about equal to Ewing's that season, but doesn't that argument also work against Duncan?

Duncan's Spurs beat one of the weakest Finals teams in recent memory in a Nets team that hadn't even won 50 games in a weak east and featured Kenyon Martin, Richard Jefferson, Kerry Kittles and a washed up Mutombo.

Duncan had a better supporting cast than the Finals team he faced too.

Well, i disagree with you about the Nets. I do think they had a better supporting caste. K-Mart, JR, Kittles, and Harris were all good players and so was the Mount. They did sweep the Pistons in the EFC and then the same team took the eventually champion Pistons 7 the next year. Spar me with the "they did win 50 games stuff"- so what? they won 49. Duncan at his best was a lot better then Kidd at his best and put up insane #s that series. They also won in 6 and it was a pretty convincing 6. I was at a couple of the games and it was the kind of series you never got the feeling the NJ could win.

On the other hand, Dream was in a 7 game war, his supporting caste was at worst a push, and TD beats him statically.

ewing
03-31-2016, 02:16 PM
Sam was a rookie though, right? Horry wasn't Big Shot yet. If you go look at the numbers, there is a severe drop off in production from Dream to anyone else.


Robert Horry was absolutely at his best. Big Shot Rob was a fat lazy spot shooter that never played close to his potential and you are missing the point :)

sheesh
03-31-2016, 02:17 PM
Well, i disagree with you about the Nets. I do think they had a better supporting caste. K-Mart, JR, Kittles, and Harris were all good players and so was the Mount. They did sweep the Pistons in the EFC and then the same team took the eventually champion Pistons 7 the next year. Spar me with the "they did win 50 games stuff"- so what? they won 49. Duncan at his best was a lot better then Kidd at his best and put up insane #s that series. They also won in 6 and it was a pretty convincing 6. I was at a couple of the games and it was the kind of series you never got the feeling the NJ could win.

On the other hand, Dream was in a 7 game war, his supporting caste was at worst a push, and TD beats him statically.

You were at some games? Damn that's nice.

What I remember is Duncan dominating the glass, especially the offensive boards. On defense he just sucked up the entire end of the floor. Like a black hole almost, you just couldn't do anything at the rim.

ewing
03-31-2016, 02:21 PM
You were at some games? Damn that's nice.

What I remember is Duncan dominating the glass, especially the offensive boards. On defense he just sucked up the entire end of the floor. Like a black hole almost, you just couldn't do anything at the rim.

Yeah i was at game 3 and 4. It was present from my now wife :)

Hawkeye15
03-31-2016, 02:21 PM
Robert Horry was absolutely at his best. Big Shot Rob was a fat lazy spot shooter that never played close to his potential and you are missing the point :)

He was a 2nd year player dude, hit 31% from three in the finals, and wasn't Robert Horry yet. Don't forget that team blasted the Malone/Stockton Jazz the series prior.

I do remember, that finals was the WORST finals on the eyes I can ever remember. So boring.

ewing
03-31-2016, 02:27 PM
He was a 2nd year player dude, hit 31% from three in the finals, and wasn't Robert Horry yet. Don't forget that team blasted the Malone/Stockton Jazz the series prior.

I do remember, that finals was the WORST finals on the eyes I can ever remember. So boring.

i know once that dude got a little cash he stopped showing up 75% of the time. young Robert was the best version of Robert Horry. Dude could have turned himself into an all star. I doubt think he averaged double figures after year 3. That Horry was a good player and deserves mention as part of the supporting caste which wasn't any worse then the team they barely beat. Dirks finals is a hell of a lot more impressive then Dreams IMO. Yeah Dream is great but you guys are putting him on a pedestal

valade16
03-31-2016, 02:30 PM
Well, I disagree with you about the Nets. I do think they had a better supporting caste. K-Mart, JR, Kittles, and Harris were all good players and so was the Mount. They did sweep the Pistons in the EFC and then the same team took the eventually champion Pistons 7 the next year. Spare me with the "they did win 50 games stuff"- so what? they won 49. Duncan at his best was a lot better then Kidd at his best and put up insane #s that series. They also won in 6 and it was a pretty convincing 6. I was at a couple of the games and it was the kind of series you never got the feeling the NJ could win.

On the other hand, Dream was in a 7 game war, his supporting caste was at worst a push, and TD beats him statically.

Mt. Mutombo a good player? He averaged 5.8 PPG | 6.4 RPG | 1.5 BPG on 37% FG with an 11.2 PER and .076 WS/48. D-Rob was at 8.5 PPG | 7.9 RPG | 1.7 BPG on 47% FG with an 17.8 PER and a .172 WS/48. It would be a ridiculous stretch to even claim they were a push that season let alone that Mutombo was better.

You probably shouldn't be bringing up the Finals games because the Nets winning 2 vs. the Spurs was bad, The Nets had gotten swept by the Lakers the last season.

Also, Lucious Harris a good player? By that measure Malike Rose and Stephen Jackson were great players lol

ewing
03-31-2016, 02:38 PM
Mt. Mutombo a good player? He averaged 5.8 PPG | 6.4 RPG | 1.5 BPG on 37% FG with an 11.2 PER and .076 WS/48. D-Rob was at 8.5 PPG | 7.9 RPG | 1.7 BPG on 47% FG with an 17.8 PER and a .172 WS/48. It would be a ridiculous stretch to even claim they were a push that season let alone that Mutombo was better.

You probably shouldn't be bringing up the Finals games because the Nets winning 2 vs. the Spurs was bad, The Nets had gotten swept by the Lakers the last season.

Also, Lucious Harris a good player? By that measure Malike Rose and Stephen Jackson were great players lol


I didn't compare D Rob to Mount. Mount had value, thats all i am saying. I said the Nets had a better supporting caste then the Spurs that year and Houston supporting caste was at worst a push compared to NY in 94. Also while Stephen Jackson was baller Mailk Rose was 100% trash- see i can be objective.

valade16
03-31-2016, 02:42 PM
i know once that dude got a little cash he stopped showing up 75% of the time. young Robert was the best version of Robert Horry. Dude could have turned himself into an all star. I doubt think he averaged double figures after year 3. That Horry was a good player and deserves mention as part of the supporting caste which wasn't any worse then the team they barely beat. Dirks finals is a hell of a lot more impressive then Dreams IMO. Yeah Dream is great but you guys are putting him on a pedestal

Not really, nobody is saying it was head and shoulders the best or anything.

If we're talking Finals, I'd say Hakeem's is more impressive than Dirk's individually but the Mavs beating the Heat was more impressive overall. Dirk's Gamescore was 16.6 and his TS% was 53.7%. Hakeem's Gamescore was 21. Not to mention Jason Terry averaged 18 PPG that series on 60% TS. Hakeem's next best scorers were Maxwell and Horry who scored 13 and 10 PPG on 36% and 32% FG and 22% and 30% 3. They scored 166 points on 170 shots. Hakeem's 2nd best player that series by Gamescore was Otis Thorpe at 10.4 and he scored 9 PPG that series. Horry was 2nd best at 7.9 Gamescore. Dirk had 3 other teammates record a 10+ Gamescore (Terry, Chandler and Marion). The only 2 players who really failed to score efficiently were Marion and Barea, but Terry, Chandler, Kidd and Stevenson were all really efficient.

That Finals wasn't Dirk taking over, it was the Mavs as a unit.

Rivera
03-31-2016, 02:42 PM
I will still contend KGs playoff where cassel and spree is the best basketball I've ever seen anyone play. Including MJ. What he did with that team breaking down in the playoffs was incredible. He was the PG and would post people up. I've never seen anyone give more heart and soul on the floor and I've never seen someone so exhausted at the end to show how much he put into that playoff run

ewing
03-31-2016, 02:49 PM
Not really, nobody is saying it was head and shoulders the best or anything.

If we're talking Finals, I'd say Hakeem's is more impressive than Dirk's individually but the Mavs beating the Heat was more impressive overall. Dirk's Gamescore was 16.6 and his TS% was 53.7%. Hakeem's Gamescore was 21. Not to mention Jason Terry averaged 18 PPG that series on 60% TS. Hakeem's next best scorers were Maxwell and Horry who scored 13 and 10 PPG on 36% and 32% FG and 22% and 30% 3. They scored 166 points on 170 shots. Hakeem's 2nd best player that series by Gamescore was Otis Thorpe at 10.4 and he scored 9 PPG that series. Horry was 2nd best at 7.9 Gamescore. Dirk had 3 other teammates record a 10+ Gamescore (Terry, Chandler and Marion). The only 2 players who really failed to score efficiently were Marion and Barea, but Terry, Chandler, Kidd and Stevenson were all really efficient.

That Finals wasn't Dirk taking over, it was the Mavs as a unit.


who was going have a good team offensive against the 94 knicks? no one. both offensive almost completely revolved around Dirk and Hakeem. Hakeem's caste was not over matched at most spots in terms of talent though.

PowerHouse
03-31-2016, 02:49 PM
PSD really needs to study up on the '75 Warriors.

That was Rick Barry and a bunch of chumps.

ewing
03-31-2016, 02:52 PM
PSD really needs to study up on the '75 Warriors.

That was Rick Barry and a bunch of chumps.


Before my time, but i am sure Vlade and copy and paste some metric stats that make watching the games unnecessary.

valade16
03-31-2016, 02:59 PM
PSD really needs to study up on the '75 Warriors.

That was Rick Barry and a bunch of chumps.

Agreed. That's why I included him. They were very fortunate that they avoided the Cowens/Hondo Celtics in the Finals that season (the Celtics won the title the season before and after 75), though they did sweep the team that beat the Celtics in the ECF that year (the Bullets).

Hawkeye15
03-31-2016, 03:01 PM
Not really, nobody is saying it was head and shoulders the best or anything.

If we're talking Finals, I'd say Hakeem's is more impressive than Dirk's individually but the Mavs beating the Heat was more impressive overall. Dirk's Gamescore was 16.6 and his TS% was 53.7%. Hakeem's Gamescore was 21. Not to mention Jason Terry averaged 18 PPG that series on 60% TS. Hakeem's next best scorers were Maxwell and Horry who scored 13 and 10 PPG on 36% and 32% FG and 22% and 30% 3. They scored 166 points on 170 shots. Hakeem's 2nd best player that series by Gamescore was Otis Thorpe at 10.4 and he scored 9 PPG that series. Horry was 2nd best at 7.9 Gamescore. Dirk had 3 other teammates record a 10+ Gamescore (Terry, Chandler and Marion). The only 2 players who really failed to score efficiently were Marion and Barea, but Terry, Chandler, Kidd and Stevenson were all really efficient.

That Finals wasn't Dirk taking over, it was the Mavs as a unit.

People completely underrate how good the Mavs team played in that finals. On both ends. Look at the amount of three's, and what percentage Dirk's teammates shot and made. Their defensive game plan was spot on.

valade16
03-31-2016, 03:02 PM
Before my time, but i am sure Vlade and copy and paste some metric stats that make watching the games unnecessary.

:laugh2: I must have won the argument since you've resorted to Ad Hominem attacks :)

I saw the 94 Finals, I saw the 03 Finals, I saw the 11 Finals. Trying to use the eye test to claim Dirk's Finals series vs. the Heat was more impressive than Hakeem's Finals in 94 is even worse than resorting to stats. Everybody saw Hakeem thoroughly outplay Ewing that season and everybody saw Jason Terry have a monster series for the Mavs (and LeBron play badly).

ewing
03-31-2016, 03:03 PM
:laugh2: I must have won the argument since you've resorted to Ad Hominem attacks :)

I saw the 94 Finals, I saw the 03 Finals, I saw the 11 Finals. Trying to use the eye test to claim Dirk's Finals series vs. the Heat was more impressive than Hakeem's Finals in 94 is even worse than resorting to stats. Everybody saw Hakeem thoroughly outplay Ewing that season and everybody saw Jason Terry have a monster series for the Mavs (and LeBron play badly).


were you a virgin in 94? how bout 03?

valade16
03-31-2016, 03:04 PM
People completely underrate how good the Mavs team played in that finals. On both ends. Look at the amount of three's, and what percentage Dirk's teammates shot and made. Their defensive game plan was spot on.

That is actually the Finals I remember most vividly because it was the only sporting event my wife actually got into. We went to the bar and watched every single game that series and my wife loved it. We both had to see if the Mavs could upset the mighty Heat. Dirk is also one of my favorite players so I was really pulling for them.

Hawkeye15
03-31-2016, 03:06 PM
That is actually the Finals I remember most vividly because it was the only sporting event my wife actually got into. We went to the bar and watched every single game that series and my wife loved it. We both had to see if the Mavs could upset the mighty Heat. Dirk is also one of my favorite players so I was really pulling for them.

I was just glad that either LeBron or Dirk won their first ring. Always wanted both to win one. When they did, I went back to not caring if they ever won another game again haha

valade16
03-31-2016, 03:08 PM
were you a virgin in 94?

Do you mean sexually or in regards to watching basketball? Because the answer was both. I do however own the 93-94 Rockets 'Clutch City' Champions DVD and have watched virtually the entire series in its entirety multiple times.

Hakeem and Ewing are two of my top 5 favorite players ever. I have watched nearly their entire careers in some fashion.

Hawkeye15
03-31-2016, 03:12 PM
all I could think of when I met Ewing at Trent Tucker's bball camp, was that his nostrils were so big, I could have easily fisted him

ewing
03-31-2016, 03:18 PM
Do you mean sexually or in regards to watching basketball? Because the answer was both. I do however own the 93-94 Rockets 'Clutch City' Champions DVD and have watched virtually the entire series in its entirety multiple times.

Hakeem and Ewing are two of my top 5 favorite players ever. I have watched nearly their entire careers in some fashion.

this being your experience explains way you resort a wall of stats with no context to back up your position

ewing
03-31-2016, 03:19 PM
all I could think of when I met Ewing at Trent Tucker's bball camp, was that his nostrils were so big, I could have easily fisted him


that's awesome Trent was the man

ewing
03-31-2016, 03:20 PM
all I could think of when I met Ewing at Trent Tucker's bball camp, was that his nostrils were so big, I could have easily fisted him


that's awesome Trent was the man

JasonJohnHorn
03-31-2016, 03:22 PM
the 94' Rockets team was basically Dream and some shooters

That is really underselling that roster.

They had a great rotation of guard: Mad Max, Kenny Smith, Cassell.... they had an All-Star PF in Thorpe, and Horry's play in that playoffs made him look like a young Pippen; he was stuffing stats across the board (which makes his lack of all-around game after that quite frustrating).

That was a great all-around team. Their skill sets complimented each other, and they really ushered in the 3-point era.

valade16
03-31-2016, 03:24 PM
this being your experience explains way you resort to a wall of stats with no context to back up your position

To clarify, are you now saying that because I didn't watch the game live or as it happened that me seeing the same footage is somehow less valid in terms of an eye test? Are you really saying that your eyes are better than mine for having watched the same thing?

ewing
03-31-2016, 03:34 PM
To clarify, are you now saying that because I didn't watch the game live or as it happened that me seeing the same footage is somehow less valid in terms of an eye test? Are you really saying that your eyes are better than mine for having watched the same thing?


my eyes were informed by those entire playoffs, that whole season, the season before. yes my eyes were better.

R. Johnson#3
03-31-2016, 03:45 PM
Didn't win it all but 2000/01 Iverson was basically him and a bunch of defenders with no offensive game.

valade16
03-31-2016, 03:46 PM
my eyes were informed by those entire playoffs, that whole season, the season before. yes my eyes were better.

Well in that case I shall refrain from talking about any basketball before my time or that I personally didn't witness as it was happening!

But my eyes were informed by the playoffs, the season and the season prior for the 11 Finals, and suffice it to say my eyes don't agree with your eyes that Dirk dominated that series and beat the Heat, but rather that it was the entire Mavs team playing an incredible game plan both offensively and defensively that defeated the Heat.

In fact, your inability to see that really has me questioning your eyes as a trusted source of basketball acumen, even informed as they were for the 94 Finals...

ewing
03-31-2016, 03:55 PM
Well in that case I shall refrain from talking about any basketball before my time or that I personally didn't witness as it was happening!

But my eyes were informed by the playoffs, the season and the season prior for the 11 Finals, and suffice it to say my eyes don't agree with your eyes that Dirk dominated that series and beat the Heat, but rather that it was the entire Mavs team playing an incredible game plan both offensively and defensively that defeated the Heat.

In fact, your inability to see that really has me questioning your eyes as a trusted source of basketball acumen, even informed as they were for the 94 Finals...

good i win and now you sound like someone that talking is about something that they know something about. I disagree and think the Mavs offensive game plan was almost totally centered on Dirk. So not only did he drop 27 a night in a low scoring series his present was responsible for most the buckets his teammates got. JJ Beara can make things happen and JT isn't quite Steve Novak but vast majority of that team offensive was created by Dirk. When you add in the fact that his caste had far less talent then the team they beat i find his one man show to be quite impressive

valade16
03-31-2016, 04:03 PM
good I win and now you sound like someone that talking is about something that they know something about. I disagree and think the Mavs offensive game plan was almost totally centered on Dirk. So not only did he drop 27 a night in a low scoring series his presence was responsible for most the buckets his teammates got. JJ Beara can make things happen and JT isn't quite Steve Novak but vast majority of that team offensive was created by Dirk.

Was Hakeem's presence less responsible for the points his teammates got? Was there anyone who could actually create their own shot on those 94 Rockets to a greater degree than Dirk's teammates in 11? (Note: I'm not giving my opinion because apparently I'm unable).

But even when Dirk had bad games the Mavs won. Dirk shot 6/19 in Game 4 and the Mavs won and then outdid that in Game 6 when he went 9/27 including 1/7 from deep. He had the lowest FG% on the team that game. Not a single Mavericks player that played that day shot worse than him and the Mavs won by 10 points.

Dirk didn't have a bad series by any stretch, but he didn't have an all-time dominant one by any stretch either.

nastynice
03-31-2016, 04:10 PM
What's merking? Sounds unsavory

He meant murk. Like murking fools left and righT

ewing
03-31-2016, 04:14 PM
Was Hakeem's presence less responsible for the points his teammates got? Was there anyone who could actually create their own shot on those 94 Rockets to a greater degree than Dirk's teammates in 11? (Note: I'm not giving my opinion because apparently I'm unable).

But even when Dirk had bad games the Mavs won. Dirk shot 6/19 in Game 4 and the Mavs won and then outdid that in Game 6 when he went 9/27 including 1/7 from deep. He had the lowest FG% on the team that game. Not a single Mavericks player that played that day shot worse than him and the Mavs won by 10 points.

Dirk didn't have a bad series by any stretch, but he didn't have an all-time dominant one by any stretch.


To answer the first question, i don't think so. At least i don't think so against the knicks in the finals. To answer the second question, yes. Sam Cassell, Maxwell, Horry, and Kenny Smith were as good or better creators then everyone the Mavs roaster not named JJ berera. The rockets had a significantly better play makers. Kenny Smith and Jason Terry are actually very similar players stylisticly IMO. You do have a point with regard to Dirk's off nights. Dream didn't have any bad night in his finals. nothing like 9/27.

JasonJohnHorn
03-31-2016, 08:49 PM
I think the OP is underestimating that team in this case.

D-Rob was averaging 2.4 blocks per36, enough to put him in the top five this season. He was still a stellar shot blocker, and a double-digit rebounder, and still a VERY smart player.


Parker played a little under his standards in the post season, but Stephen Jackson was playing good, all-around ball, as was Manu, and though he shot poorly inside the arc, he was at 38% from beyond the arc in the post season. Yes, he was a rookie, but he was making good plays and showing his all-around game.

D-Rob had limited minutes, but he was shooting near 55% and averaging 10+ boards per36. They also had vets like Steve Smith and Kevin Willis sitting at the end of the bench, so even when they were bringing on guys in the closing minutes of a quarter/half, they were still putting on guys who had lots of experience.

I do agree that the team was a little weak, and that Duncan was a beast that year. 100%. But it's not like he did that all by himself.

sheesh
03-31-2016, 10:47 PM
I think the OP is underestimating that team in this case.

D-Rob was averaging 2.4 blocks per36, enough to put him in the top five this season. He was still a stellar shot blocker, and a double-digit rebounder, and still a VERY smart player.


Parker played a little under his standards in the post season, but Stephen Jackson was playing good, all-around ball, as was Manu, and though he shot poorly inside the arc, he was at 38% from beyond the arc in the post season. Yes, he was a rookie, but he was making good plays and showing his all-around game.

D-Rob had limited minutes, but he was shooting near 55% and averaging 10+ boards per36. They also had vets like Steve Smith and Kevin Willis sitting at the end of the bench, so even when they were bringing on guys in the closing minutes of a quarter/half, they were still putting on guys who had lots of experience.

I do agree that the team was a little weak, and that Duncan was a beast that year. 100%. But it's not like he did that all by himself.

DRob was okay, when he actually on the court. But still had a minimal impact in the grand scheme of things.

Basketball is a team game, nobody does it all by himself, but 02-03 Duncan is arguably the closest we've ever seen somebody do it all alone.

Somebody else has to take shots. And when they take shots some of them will go in the basket. Which will give them points.

DODGERS&LAKERS
03-31-2016, 11:14 PM
I like what Dirk did in 2011.

ewing
04-01-2016, 10:43 AM
I think the OP is underestimating that team in this case.

D-Rob was averaging 2.4 blocks per36, enough to put him in the top five this season. He was still a stellar shot blocker, and a double-digit rebounder, and still a VERY smart player.


Parker played a little under his standards in the post season, but Stephen Jackson was playing good, all-around ball, as was Manu, and though he shot poorly inside the arc, he was at 38% from beyond the arc in the post season. Yes, he was a rookie, but he was making good plays and showing his all-around game.

D-Rob had limited minutes, but he was shooting near 55% and averaging 10+ boards per36. They also had vets like Steve Smith and Kevin Willis sitting at the end of the bench, so even when they were bringing on guys in the closing minutes of a quarter/half, they were still putting on guys who had lots of experience.

I do agree that the team was a little weak, and that Duncan was a beast that year. 100%. But it's not like he did that all by himself.


I don't think so. It is the NBA. you are going have teammates that don't completely suck if you win any game. That said what TD did with that squad is hella impressive. I will concede that a case can be made for Hakeem being a bigger one man show then Dirk, Vlade got me there. Dream more dominate, Dirk more improbably. That said i don't any case being made for anyone i've seen being more dominate then TD that year and winning it all other then the great one. I feel we have left him out the conversation b/c he's just kind of a given.

valade16
04-01-2016, 11:31 AM
I don't think so. It is the NBA. you are going have teammates that don't completely suck if you win any game. That said what TD did with that squad is hella impressive. I will concede that a case can be made for Hakeem being a bigger one man show then Dirk, Vlade got me there. Dream more dominate, Dirk more improbably. That said i don't any case being made for anyone i've seen being more dominate then TD that year and winning it all other then great one. I feel we have left him out the conversation b/c he's just kind of a given.

That's all I ever wanted :)

In all seriousness. Yeah Duncan's year was insanely impressive. As was Hakeem's in 94. As was Rick Barry's in 75. As was Dirk's 11.

If you're making a short list of Title winners with the least help they would all be on it. Dirk's while not the most impressive on an individual level, was certainly the most remarkable for who they defeated in the Finals.

IKnowHoops
04-01-2016, 03:17 PM
Duncan won league MVP and Finals MVP that year.

Robinson was old and on the way out. Ginobili was a rookie and not very effective for some reason that year. He averaged 7PPG that year and 9PPG in the playoffs that year. And Parker had a horrible playoff run that year, really just horrible.

Bruce Bowen was the second best player on the championship team.

I watched some of the Spurs playoff run that year. And I got to say it was the greatest solo beatdown I've ever seen. The entire NBA just got merked by Duncan.

I watched that entire season for the Spurs. Admiral, Parker, Ginobli, Jackson were all better than Bruce Bowen. I think D Rob had 17/14 and 4 blocks in the close out game. Rob was a shell of himself, but at no point was Bowen better than him. He was a great one on one defender and could hit the wide open corner 3, but he was no where close to an old decrepit D rob who could still turn away 90% of the NBA at the rim.

KnicksorBust
04-06-2016, 11:35 AM
50 replies and still no one with the right answer?

Shaq in 2000.

valade16
04-06-2016, 11:47 AM
50 replies and still no one with the right answer?

Shaq in 2000.

Are you saying that because of the playoffs? Because Shaq had a young Kobe dropping 20 PPG and Glen Rice plus the assortment of high quality role players that defined the Lakers 3-peat. He definitely had more talent around him than Duncan in 03, Hakeem in 94, or Barry in 75.

If we're going to say Shaq in 2000 why not Jordan in 91?

KnicksorBust
04-06-2016, 11:55 AM
Are you saying that because of the playoffs? Because Shaq had a young Kobe dropping 20 PPG and Glen Rice plus the assortment of high quality role players that defined the Lakers 3-peat. He definitely had more talent around him than Duncan in 03, Hakeem in 94, or Barry in 75.

If we're going to say Shaq in 2000 why not Jordan in 91?

Pippen and Ho Grant were huge in that Finals in 91 meanwhile Shaq carried the team on his back vs. Indiana. I'm sorry... I mean Shaq solo MERKED Indiana in the Finals.

IKnowHoops
04-06-2016, 01:01 PM
Pippen and Ho Grant were huge in that Finals in 91 meanwhile Shaq carried the team on his back vs. Indiana. I'm sorry... I mean Shaq solo MERKED Indiana in the Finals.

LOL...Shaq deserves some consideration. Instead of looking at the names, look at how those names performed. Just look at the actual numbers and its easy to see who had the least help.

Duncan's Spurs are being so underrated. They had awesome team defence with 2 mobile 7 footers down low. They had Popovic as coach, known for making players better and putting them in positions to make plays.

That team balled, Duncan was the biggest part, but he didn't carry that team. That team was still a beast. They did a lot of things great and were deep as it gets.

valade16
04-06-2016, 01:09 PM
Pippen and Ho Grant were huge in that Finals in 91 meanwhile Shaq carried the team on his back vs. Indiana. I'm sorry... I mean Shaq solo MERKED Indiana in the Finals.

I assumed you were referring to the playoffs that season which is why I asked. I thought the OP meant for an entire season. If it's just a playoff run or a playoff series yes Shaq is in serious contention.

Hawkeye15
04-06-2016, 01:27 PM
Pippen and Ho Grant were huge in that Finals in 91 meanwhile Shaq carried the team on his back vs. Indiana. I'm sorry... I mean Shaq solo MERKED Indiana in the Finals.

if we are talking one series, hell yes Shaq is at the top of the list for that finals.

kdspurman
04-06-2016, 02:07 PM
Duncan was just a monster on both ends in that Nets series. His numbers were crazy..

Averaged 24.2 points 17.0 boards 5.3 assists and 5.3 blocks with an overall PER of 32. All this while keeping Kenyon Martin pretty much in check on the other end of the court, particularly in that close out game. He was a force on both ends

KnicksorBust
04-06-2016, 02:39 PM
Duncan was just a monster on both ends in that Nets series. His numbers were crazy..

Averaged 24.2 points 17.0 boards 5.3 assists and 5.3 blocks with an overall PER of 32. All this while keeping Kenyon Martin pretty much in check on the other end of the court, particularly in that close out game. He was a force on both ends

Shaq 38 points 16.7 boards 2.3 assists and 2.7 blocks. If you compare their game score to their teammates it's more obvious.

For Duncan vs. Nets finals he had a game score of 24.1 and DRob came in 2nd at 11.9
For Shaq vs. Pacers finals he had a ridiculous game of 30.6 and Kobe came in 2nd at 9.7

Kobe was doo doo in that finals and Shaq just ate Dale Davis (all-star that season) and Rik Smits alive. Merk Merk Merk

kdspurman
04-06-2016, 02:53 PM
Shaq 38 points 16.7 boards 2.3 assists and 2.7 blocks. If you compare their game score to their teammates it's more obvious.

For Duncan vs. Nets finals he had a game score of 24.1 and DRob came in 2nd at 11.9
For Shaq vs. Pacers finals he had a ridiculous game of 30.6 and Kobe came in 2nd at 9.7

Kobe was doo doo in that finals and Shaq just ate Dale Davis (all-star that season) and Rik Smits alive. Merk Merk Merk

I didn't come in saying it was better than Shaq, I just hadn't seen anyone post his actual numbers yet. Shaq was a beast during that run, no doubt about it. But that doesn't change what I said about Timmy lol