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View Full Version : Magic,Celtics will pursue Jimmy Butler via trade this off season



spreadeagle
03-30-2016, 11:58 AM
Whether the Chicago Bulls make the playoffs or not, it's been a disappointing season in the Windy City, and the team is now open to trading franchise player Jimmy Butler as a result, according to The Vertical's Chris Mannix.

The Boston Celtics, who reportedly inquired about Butler's availability before last month's trade deadline, and the Orlando Magic are two teams particularly interested, and the Bulls are prepared to listen to offers, reports Mannix.

The Bulls will be at a crossroads this summer. Their roster is almost entirely held over from the era of Tom Thibodeau, who operated a grinding, defensive system that is the polar opposite of first-year coach Fred Hoiberg's vision for free-flowing offensive sets. That could mean the team will bid farewell to Joakim Noah and Pau Gasol, two unrestricted free agent traditional big men north of 30 years old.

To compound matters further, Hoiberg and Butler still don't see eye-to-eye, according to multiple reports. The latter publicly called out the coach in December, and tension still lingers, according to Mannix.

Butler, who was bequeathed the mantle of Bulls' go-to guy with the decline of Derrick Rose, signed a max contract extension with Chicago last summer. He's averaging a team-high 21 points per game, although his 3-point accuracy has dipped under 32 percent after a marked improvement last year.

Hoiberg, known to be close with Bulls general manager Gar Forman, was named head coach last June after the team's protracted divorce from Thibodeau.

The Bulls, sitting at .500 after Tuesday's win over the Indiana Pacers, are currently two games out of eighth place in the Eastern Conference. If they fail to make the playoffs, it will be their first postseason-free campaign since 2007-08.


http://www.thescore.com/nba/news/995054

Chronz
03-30-2016, 12:37 PM
Damn. Iirc The Bulls fo takes alot of pride in their playoff streak, crazy they may not make it

BallDontLie
03-30-2016, 01:36 PM
well if Butler is actually made available there will be plenty of teams making offers. The Sixers prob have the most to offer and he was scheduled to come in for a visit before he re-signed with the Bulls. I think he only agreed to meet with like 5 other teams. I dont think its likely but an offer revolving around Okafor or Noel and the Lakers pick that we own would be a solid starting point. We also have the Kings 2018 or 2019 unprotected first as well along with OKC and Miami firsts this year.

Okafor/Noel, Saric, Covington LAL first, Miami first, future Sixers first protected in the top 3-5.

WaDe03
03-30-2016, 02:00 PM
well if Butler is actually made available there will be plenty of teams making offers. The Sixers prob have the most to offer and he was scheduled to come in for a visit before he re-signed with the Bulls. I think he only agreed to meet with like 5 other teams. I dont think its likely but an offer revolving around Okafor or Noel and the Lakers pick that we own would be a solid starting point. We also have the Kings 2018 or 2019 unprotected first as well along with OKC and Miami firsts this year.

Okafor/Noel, Saric, Covington LAL first, Miami first, future Sixers first protected in the top 3-5.

All of that for Butler?

BallDontLie
03-30-2016, 02:06 PM
hes under contract for 5 years so hes worth a lot. Also in case that didnt come off clear thats not Okafor and Noel, its one or the other, whoever the Bulls would prefer which im sure is Okafor for a number of reasons.

basketballkitty
03-30-2016, 02:11 PM
hes under contract for 5 years so hes worth a lot. Also in case that didnt come off clear thats not Okafor and Noel, its one or the other, whoever the Bulls would prefer which im sure is Okafor for a number of reasons.





Butler is under contract for 3 more years, not 5. He has a opt-out after 3, and he will likely use it.

Pierzynski4Prez
03-30-2016, 02:20 PM
Still 3 years signed for is a lot in this league. It's still a top 15 player with at minimum 3 years of control in what is a pretty cap friendly deal considering what other FA's will be getting this summer.

If I were the Bulls FO dealing with the C's, I'd expect at minimum the Nets pick, Mavs Pick, + Crowder and Smart (basically throw in). Maybe more, otherwise I'd gladly keep Jimmy to build around. If I was dealing with ORL, it would start around Dipo or Fournier, + Hezonja, + their 1st.

Stunner
03-30-2016, 02:22 PM
Butler is under contract for 3 more years, not 5. He has a opt-out after 3, and he will likely use it.

Still locked up a good amount of time to improve that team , not to mention his contract will be one of the best in the league with the cap increasing . Time he opts out he'll be 29 .

Stunner
03-30-2016, 02:27 PM
Deals I'll prob like is something dealing with Boston / Philly/ or even Phx



Crowder or Bradley / Nets pick / Dallas and a contract they want to dump off for Butler

Okafor / 22nd and Philly 2017 1st / Landry / Grant for Butler and Bulls 1st



Booker / Chandler / Tucker / Pick for Butler and Mirotic

5ass
03-30-2016, 02:35 PM
Still 3 years signed for is a lot in this league. It's still a top 15 player with at minimum 3 years of control in what is a pretty cap friendly deal considering what other FA's will be getting this summer.

If I were the Bulls FO dealing with the C's, I'd expect at minimum the Nets pick, Mavs Pick, + Crowder and Smart (basically throw in). Maybe more, otherwise I'd gladly keep Jimmy to build around. If I was dealing with ORL, it would start around Dipo or Fournier, + Hezonja, + their 1st.

How about Hezonja, Vucevic and a 1st? I wouldnt want to give up dipo he's been really good since the start of the new year. Fournier is a FA.

phantasyyy
03-30-2016, 02:36 PM
Deals I'll prob like is something dealing with Boston / Philly/ or even Phx



Crowder or Bradley / Nets pick / Dallas and a contract they want to dump off for Butler

Okafor / 22nd and Philly 2017 1st / Landry / Grant for Butler and Bulls 1st



Booker / Chandler / Tucker / Pick for Butler and Mirotic

Its a pretty intruging deal the Boston one, i'd think they'd be interested in acquiring Olynyk or Zeller as well with the potential departure of Gasol/Noah though.


That said i really see no package offered to the bulls in which they would trade a stud like Butler for.. I see them letting Noah/Gasol both walk and retool around Rose and Butler with more mobile bigs that can get up and down the floor.

R. Johnson#3
03-30-2016, 02:40 PM
Imagine if Massai shocked the World and pulled off a sign and trade of DeMar and the NYK/DEN pick (10th or 11th) for Butler.

phantasyyy
03-30-2016, 02:45 PM
How about Hezonja, Vucevic and a 1st? I wouldnt want to give up dipo he's been really good since the start of the new year. Fournier is a FA.

Intriguing package, but i dont think it'll be enough for the bulls to bite, would be great for the magic though. Just resign Howard and that would be pretty formidable defensive team..Spacing would be atrocious but
payton-dipo-butler-gordon-howard would be fun to watch on the defesnive end.

Stunner
03-30-2016, 02:49 PM
Imagine if Massai shocked the World and pulled off a sign and trade of DeMar and the NYK/DEN pick (10th or 11th) for Butler.

We don't want no Demar

basketballkitty
03-30-2016, 02:50 PM
I think the many reports about Rose and Butler not getting along are true. And since Rose is not only more loved in Chicago...but is harder to trade, that is why they have been shopping Butler so hard. But what I do know is that if Butler is traded...they will want a Center, and not a 3rd tier one like the scrubs the Celtics have. Their first choice would obviously be Okafor. I mean that is just a fact. Ready to play and be a 20 +Pt and 10 rebound a game player who's game would fit perfectly with Rose. It also allows the Bulls to get Tony Snell more playing time, which is what they want. And if they can get a low salaried player like Covington in that deal, and maybe even Dario Saric...sorry but I don't see anyone beating that deal.

Pierzynski4Prez
03-30-2016, 02:54 PM
How about Hezonja, Vucevic and a 1st? I wouldnt want to give up dipo he's been really good since the start of the new year. Fournier is a FA.

Not enough imo. Maybe Fournier could be included with a S & T.

Green_Monster
03-30-2016, 02:58 PM
Deals I'll prob like is something dealing with Boston / Philly/ or even Phx



Crowder or Bradley / Nets pick / Dallas and a contract they want to dump off for Butler

Okafor / 22nd and Philly 2017 1st / Landry / Grant for Butler and Bulls 1st



Booker / Chandler / Tucker / Pick for Butler and Mirotic

The Celtics might do that if it's Bradley. Doubt they'd do Crowder/Nets pick/Dallas pick though.

I'll continue to preach that Jae Crowder is very underrated. The difference in the level of play of this Celtics team without him is very noticeable.

5ass
03-30-2016, 03:00 PM
Not enough imo. Maybe Fournier could be included with a S & T.

Can't sign and trade him in a package.

phantasyyy
03-30-2016, 03:05 PM
The Celtics might do that if it's Bradley. Doubt they'd do Crowder/Nets pick/Dallas pick though.

I'll continue to preach that Jae Crowder is very underrated. The difference in the level of play of this Celtics team without him is very noticeable.

Crowder is on a real bargain of a contract as well so I too think he'd be a keeper for the Celtics.. That said exchanging Bradley would benefit both teams as it would open up the door for more playing time w/ Smart @ the 2, and McDermott/Snell/Mirotic at the 3.

Green_Monster
03-30-2016, 03:19 PM
Crowder is on a real bargain of a contract as well so I too think he'd be a keeper for the Celtics.. That said exchanging Bradley would benefit both teams as it would open up the door for more playing time w/ Smart @ the 2, and McDermott/Snell/Mirotic at the 3.

Exactly, and the Celtics have nothing at the SF position behind Crowder (Turner is more of a guard) which is part of the reason why they've struggled. They deal from a position which they have better depth if they trade Bradley.

Stunner
03-30-2016, 03:26 PM
The Celtics might do that if it's Bradley. Doubt they'd do Crowder/Nets pick/Dallas pick though.

I'll continue to preach that Jae Crowder is very underrated. The difference in the level of play of this Celtics team without him is very noticeable.

I agree , that nets pick prob top 3 or 4 and puts the Bulls in a great spot to get a top notch prospect seeing it's a top heavy draft . I'll be happy

kobe4thewinbang
03-30-2016, 03:54 PM
Pretty sad and frankly tough to believe a Bulls team hampered only by Noah's injury, led by a mostly healthy Rose and surging Jimmy Butler, are struggling to make the playoffs in the (albeit improving) weak east.

What kind of return would Chicago accept? I question the front office, after that rumor they almost traded Butler at the deadline. Butler should be the future, but the team is in flux with the new coach and all. Gonna be a different Bulls team soon, which is crazy to imagine.

No more Noah?

More-Than-Most
03-30-2016, 04:25 PM
Oka and a future first for butler asap... for ****s sake PLEASE

Aust
03-30-2016, 05:03 PM
Interesting. I think the C's could be a good fit.

valade16
03-30-2016, 05:28 PM
Oka and a future first for butler asap... for ****s sake PLEASE

Trust the process...

Shammyguy3
03-30-2016, 06:04 PM
I think the many reports about Rose and Butler not getting along are true. And since Rose is not only more loved in Chicago...but is harder to trade, that is why they have been shopping Butler so hard. But what I do know is that if Butler is traded...they will want a Center, and not a 3rd tier one like the scrubs the Celtics have. Their first choice would obviously be Okafor. I mean that is just a fact. Ready to play and be a 20 +Pt and 10 rebound a game player who's game would fit perfectly with Rose. It also allows the Bulls to get Tony Snell more playing time, which is what they want. And if they can get a low salaried player like Covington in that deal, and maybe even Dario Saric...sorry but I don't see anyone beating that deal.

The Bulls do not like Tony Snell and do not want to give him more playing time. Exactly how does Okafor fit perfectly with Derrick?

IndyRealist
03-30-2016, 06:34 PM
If it were me, no Butler trade would happen without dumping Rose as well.

KG2TB
03-30-2016, 07:04 PM
If it were me, no Butler trade would happen without dumping Rose as well.

I'd love that but I think the FO values Rose's expiring contract after next season. It also gives them another year to evaluate Derrick's health and production. If he regains elite status, maybe they re-sign him, if he doesn't, use the 20 mil on a loaded 2017 free agent class. Butler makes the most sense to go though because of his value. I'd love a deal with Boston. If the Wolves wanna deal, that'd be more than ok with me too. LaVine, Dieng, and their pick could be tempting for both sides.

basketballkitty
03-30-2016, 07:35 PM
The Bulls do not like Tony Snell and do not want to give him more playing time. Exactly how does Okafor fit perfectly with Derrick?



They don't like Snell ? Then why did they Opt-in his 4th year ? And why has his Minute total gone up every year ?...Cause they don't like him. ?

STRIKERC
03-30-2016, 07:37 PM
Trust the process...

And that's what the process is all about.
Collect assets, wait for a deal like this one and cash in.
Hinkie ever said he was going to win a chip with 15 rookies. Doubt me? Take a look at Houston before and after Harden.

WaDe03
03-30-2016, 08:23 PM
Gerald Green and McRoberts for Jimmy.

valade16
03-30-2016, 08:25 PM
And that's what the process is all about.
Collect assets, wait for a deal like this one and cash in.
Hinkie ever said he was going to win a chip with 15 rookies. Doubt me? Take a look at Houston before and after Harden.

1 Conf. Finals run? I'm sure 76ers fans will be ecstatic to hear that their 3 (soon to be 4) years of watching a terrible team was well worth it to watch them make the conference finals once.

Philly might actually be closer to a championship than Houston right now, and that's saying something...

DboneG
03-30-2016, 09:15 PM
A clean Slate! That's what the Bulls are after.

Fred Hoiberg voiced to management that his new up tempo system will work. I need players that will buy in. Fred Hoiberg inherited Thibs players...so, they will have to get rid of them. Jimmy Butler could stay, but, had voiced displeasure in Fred Hoiberg coaching style a few times. I don't think the respect is there. SO, JIMMY BUTLER HAS TO GO. Pau Gasol will walk at season's end, Joakim Noah will walk, Aaron Brooks will be gone, Taj Gibson could be gone.... I believe the Bulls will let D-Rose walk when his contract is up.

KG2TB
03-30-2016, 09:57 PM
They don't like Snell ? Then why did they Opt-in his 4th year ? And why has his Minute total gone up every year ?...Cause they don't like him. ?

He just lost his playing time for the likes of Justin Holliday who came over at the trade deadline. That should tell you how they feel about him. He was given every chance to succeed in the beginning of the season and like Niko, was gifted a spot in the starting lineup. He's been a major disappointment.

Shammyguy3
03-30-2016, 10:24 PM
They don't like Snell ? Then why did they Opt-in his 4th year ? And why has his Minute total gone up every year ?...Cause they don't like him. ?

No they do not like Snell. They picked up his 4th year because it was a cheap $2.3M and it was before this season even began - meaning, before they found out he's a ****ing terrible player. His minutes have gone up because they needed to find out how good or bad he is. They liked him when they drafted him, yes. But they realize he was a terrible pick for even a 2nd round selection.


He just lost his playing time for the likes of Justin Holliday who came over at the trade deadline. That should tell you how they feel about him. He was given every chance to succeed in the beginning of the season and like Niko, was gifted a spot in the starting lineup. He's been a major disappointment.

This too

Animosity
03-30-2016, 11:32 PM
If people think Butler will given away they are wrong. The Bulls are dysfunctional so why wouldn't teams try and trade for an all-star and one of the best 2 way players in the league. The offer will have to be very good to get GarPax to pull the trigger.

lionel
03-30-2016, 11:38 PM
What about a Demarcus cousins, butler swap straight up. Just winder how his value is perceived by opposing teams fans

Dade County
03-30-2016, 11:59 PM
Bulls over value their players, so Butler will retire a Bull.

Vinylman
03-31-2016, 11:49 AM
Trust the process...

that IS the process

Philly should do Oka plus Lakers pick

JOSKOMANG4
03-31-2016, 12:17 PM
Avery Bradley, Amir Johnson, Mavs & Celtics 2016 1st rd pick for Jimmy Butler.

Amir Johnson could replace Gasol & Noah. Bradley provides them a starting wing.

Celtics acquire a top NBA star while still holding onto the Brooklyn pick.

bulls_big fan09
03-31-2016, 12:34 PM
Avery Bradley, Amir Johnson, Mavs & Celtics 2016 1st rd pick for Jimmy Butler.

Amir Johnson could replace Gasol & Noah. Bradley provides them a starting wing.

Celtics acquire a top NBA star while still holding onto the Brooklyn pick.

Hopefully the Bulls FO passes on deals like this, Bulls should get a top young talent back for Jimmy, he'll have 4 years left and is a top15-20 player entering his prime. Not a whole lot of value in this trade though I could see the bulls doing it if its Crowder instead of Bradley possibly. Bulls FO probably aren't going to be demanding a top pick/young talent but rather a similar talent back trying to win next season:sigh:

Stunner
03-31-2016, 12:46 PM
Hopefully the Bulls FO passes on deals like this, Bulls should get a top young talent back for Jimmy, he'll have 4 years left and is a top15-20 player entering his prime. Not a whole lot of value in this trade though I could see the bulls doing it if its Crowder instead of Bradley possibly. Bulls FO probably aren't going to be demanding a top pick/young talent but rather a similar talent back trying to win next season:sigh:

If he means that nets pick as the Celtics pick I'll be super pissed if we declined this deal

bulls_big fan09
03-31-2016, 12:53 PM
If he means that nets pick as the Celtics pick I'll be super pissed if we declined this deal

Same could take out Amir Johnson and just do Bradley, Brooklyn, and Celtics pick and I'd still be satisfied but wasn't a typo


Celtics acquire a top NBA star while still holding onto the Brooklyn pick.

Stunner
03-31-2016, 01:03 PM
Oh he's dumb Boston not getting Butler without giving up the nets pick
. They aren't getting any all star talent without doing so .


Tbh Boston prob don't want anymore young players , they have enough of those . They need vet all star talent so they can take the next step and that nets pick will play a big factor into them doing so .

effen5
03-31-2016, 01:08 PM
We all know Garpax don't have the balls to make a move.

SDvikes
03-31-2016, 01:12 PM
LaVine and Dieng for Butler....

Go Wolves.

Animosity
03-31-2016, 01:24 PM
LaVine and Dieng for Butler....

Go Wolves.

That will never happen. Bulls FO would let Butler rot before getting fleeced.

Stunner
03-31-2016, 01:57 PM
LaVine and Dieng for Butler....

Go Wolves.

Add y'all 1st this year then deal

valade16
03-31-2016, 02:05 PM
LaVine and Dieng [and Wiggins] for Butler....

Go Wolves.

Fixed.

JLynn943
03-31-2016, 02:23 PM
Cousins and just making the pick we owe them a 2nd round to get that over with for Butler

Stunner
03-31-2016, 02:33 PM
Cousins and just making the pick we owe them a 2nd round to get that over with for Butler

Ehh I rather do a butler for cousins swap and swap of first rounders this year tbh

Wes Mantooth
03-31-2016, 02:35 PM
Jazz have youth and picks the Bulls need. Several different combinations could work. Hood or Burks, Lyles, and a 1st.

Stunner
03-31-2016, 02:38 PM
Jazz have youth and picks the Bulls need. Several different combinations could work. Hood or Burks, Lyles, and a 1st.

I honestly like that but idk something missing , maybe a Hayward for butler swap . I think Gordon been there too long and at the end of the day y'all would win by a landslide if y'all kept Hayward / Favors / Gobert while adding Butler

warfelg
03-31-2016, 02:39 PM
I think I would be comfortable going as far as Okafor, Saric, LAL 1st, Sac 1st (top 10 protected 2018, unprotected 2019) for Butler, Snell, 2018/19/20 lotto protected converts to 2 seconds.

mrblisterdundee
03-31-2016, 02:42 PM
I think the many reports about Rose and Butler not getting along are true. And since Rose is not only more loved in Chicago...but is harder to trade, that is why they have been shopping Butler so hard. But what I do know is that if Butler is traded...they will want a Center, and not a 3rd tier one like the scrubs the Celtics have. Their first choice would obviously be Okafor. I mean that is just a fact. Ready to play and be a 20 +Pt and 10 rebound a game player who's game would fit perfectly with Rose. It also allows the Bulls to get Tony Snell more playing time, which is what they want. And if they can get a low salaried player like Covington in that deal, and maybe even Dario Saric...sorry but I don't see anyone beating that deal.

The Bulls have a center. His name is Bobby Portis Jr. He's proven he can play well when given the time.
I would go for Oladipo over Boston's picks. Build around guys like Oladipo, Portis, and maybe Nikola Mirotic, Doug McDermott and Tony Snell. Let Derrick Rose's deal expire, then sign him at a discount or get rid of him. Use guys like Taj Gibson as trade bait to pick up more assets. Chicago has multiple avenues moving forward.

Stunner
03-31-2016, 02:46 PM
I'll take Okafor over Portis , it's not close

JLynn943
03-31-2016, 02:47 PM
Ehh I rather do a butler for cousins swap and swap of first rounders this year tbh

Kings hands are tied with the first round pick this year. If it's outside of the top 10, Bulls get it. If it's inside the top 10, the 76ers have the right to swap already. Draft night it would be freed up though.

warfelg
03-31-2016, 02:52 PM
I'll take Okafor over Portis , it's not close

Amazes me how divided Bulls fans are. Take it as someone that's been there (AI trade): if you are going to trade a superstar, take the best package that sets you up for a great rebuild. Don't take the one that keeps you competitive.

Now I'm not saying go as bad as we are now. But we tried for years aster trading our superstars to keep it afloat with sub-stars and maxing out role players. We were in cap hell running the one-and-done 6/7/8 treadmill for close to a decade.

mngopher35
03-31-2016, 02:54 PM
I think I would be comfortable going as far as Okafor, Saric, LAL 1st, Sac 1st (top 10 protected 2018, unprotected 2019) for Butler, Snell, 2018/19/20 lotto protected converts to 2 seconds.

I don't think anyone tops this offer, that's a lot of solid assets to rebuild with.

mngopher35
03-31-2016, 02:57 PM
I'm not sure chasing butler makes much sense for Minnesota since we have 3 very young players together who can grow together. My thought of what I would offer was lavine/shabazz/first rounder this year. Probably not enough based on what others have mentioned though.

warfelg
03-31-2016, 03:01 PM
I don't think anyone tops this offer, that's a lot of solid assets to rebuild with.

Yup. And I don't think what most people realize is this is what the process is about:

The chance to jump on a guy like this without crippling the future of the team. We didn't give up a single one of our own picks, we still have plenty of our own assets, and still are loaded on cap space.

We would have our own top 3/4 pick, Noel, Embiid, Covington, Staus, Room for 2 max contracts, OKC pick, Mia pick, crap ton of seconds.

If we came out of the draft and did that trade you could look at Butler, Simmons, Noel as starters. Lawuau, Covington, Valentine (maybe), Embiid, Staus on the bench. And cap space to sign a PG and SF via FA.

BallDontLie
03-31-2016, 03:37 PM
I don't think anyone tops this offer, that's a lot of solid assets to rebuild with.

might be a little too much. That Sac pick could end up being in the top 5 by 2019. I would rather give up the OKC or Miami picks from this year or a future first. But regardless no one can offer a better package than the Sixers.

warfelg
03-31-2016, 04:59 PM
might be a little too much. That Sac pick could end up being in the top 5 by 2019. I would rather give up the OKC or Miami picks from this year or a future first. But regardless no one can offer a better package than the Sixers.

And the more I thought about it the more I rather go a little over and get some filler along with Butler than go under and lose Butler.

Shammyguy3
03-31-2016, 06:18 PM
Avery Bradley, Amir Johnson, Mavs & Celtics 2016 1st rd pick for Jimmy Butler.

Amir Johnson could replace Gasol & Noah. Bradley provides them a starting wing.

Celtics acquire a top NBA star while still holding onto the Brooklyn pick.

would take a higher pick or a much more valuable young player to get Butler. Amir is a solid player and would fit in well but he doesn't replace anything, and Bradley as a starting wing isn't that great on a rebuilding team.


Fixed.

:laugh2: thanks for acknowledging that for me so i didn't have to do it


The Bulls have a center. His name is Bobby Portis Jr. He's proven he can play well when given the time.
I would go for Oladipo over Boston's picks. Build around guys like Oladipo, Portis, and maybe Nikola Mirotic, Doug McDermott and Tony Snell. Let Derrick Rose's deal expire, then sign him at a discount or get rid of him. Use guys like Taj Gibson as trade bait to pick up more assets. Chicago has multiple avenues moving forward.

you're too high on Portis; i'd much rather have BOS's picks than Oladipo - he's a good player but he doesn't have the ceiling that Butler has nor that picks could potentially have. You don't trade Butler and try to remain competitiv; it's a move you make to really bottom out.


And the more I thought about it the more I rather go a little over and get some filler along with Butler than go under and lose Butler.

:nod:

5ass
03-31-2016, 07:45 PM
Per 36 min this year
Oladipo at 23 yrs old- 17.4ppg-4.3apg-5.3rpg
Butler at 26 yrs old- 20.4ppg-4.3apg-5.0rpg

With oladipo having the better career 3 pt%. At 23 years old, Oladipo was better than 23 yr old Butler. I'm just saying Oladipo gets underrated here and so does his potential. I think its very possible he becomes as good as butler. That's why I wouldn't include him in a magic package.

BKLYNpigeon
03-31-2016, 08:06 PM
I would give up Harrison Barnes - Festis Ezili and 1st round pick.

phantasyyy
03-31-2016, 08:50 PM
From what I read it looks like Chi is trying to start anew and that means plenty of bigs in Taj/Noah/Gasol should become available this offseason..

Really intriguing as I've always thought they should've traded of or some of them for some talent in return.

Its a shame though, they're like guaranteed to lose 2/3 at the very least.

Shammyguy3
03-31-2016, 09:05 PM
Per 36 min this year
Oladipo at 23 yrs old- 17.4ppg-4.3apg-5.3rpg
Butler at 26 yrs old- 20.4ppg-4.3apg-5.0rpg

With oladipo having the better career 3 pt%. At 23 years old, Oladipo was better than 23 yr old Butler. I'm just saying Oladipo gets underrated here and so does his potential. I think its very possible he becomes as good as butler. That's why I wouldn't include him in a magic package.

One was a top-prospect coming out of college and the other was a 2nd round pick that the Bulls took with the last pick of the 1st round. Comparing Butler's 2nd year in the league to Oladipo's 3rd year doesn't do anything for evaluating where they currently are. Oladipo was supposed to come in and make an impact right away as a starter and wreak havoc defensively. Butler was supposed to be a bench player like Keith Bogans/Ronnie Brewer for Chicago.

With that said - Butler's offensive efficiency in his second season blow's Oladipo's third season (same age remember) out of the water: 57.4ts% 121 ORtg 0.158 WS/48 versus 53.5ts% 105 ORtg 0.100 WS/48

warfelg
03-31-2016, 09:15 PM
One was a top-prospect coming out of college and the other was a 2nd round pick that the Bulls took with the last pick of the 1st round. Comparing Butler's 2nd year in the league to Oladipo's 3rd year doesn't do anything for evaluating where they currently are. Oladipo was supposed to come in and make an impact right away as a starter and wreak havoc defensively. Butler was supposed to be a bench player like Keith Bogans/Ronnie Brewer for Chicago.

With that said - Butler's offensive efficiency in his second season blow's Oladipo's third season (same age remember) out of the water: 57.4ts% 121 ORtg 0.158 WS/48 versus 53.5ts% 105 ORtg 0.100 WS/48

Not to mention that Butler put up the last two impressive numbers while being the 3rd/4th option in Chicago; Olandipo was supposed to be Orlandos 1st/2nd option.

5ass
03-31-2016, 09:34 PM
One was a top-prospect coming out of college and the other was a 2nd round pick that the Bulls took with the last pick of the 1st round. Comparing Butler's 2nd year in the league to Oladipo's 3rd year doesn't do anything for evaluating where they currently are. Oladipo was supposed to come in and make an impact right away as a starter and wreak havoc defensively. Butler was supposed to be a bench player like Keith Bogans/Ronnie Brewer for Chicago.

With that said - Butler's offensive efficiency in his second season blow's Oladipo's third season (same age remember) out of the water: 57.4ts% 121 ORtg 0.158 WS/48 versus 53.5ts% 105 ORtg 0.100 WS/48

Lol the fact that he wasn't a primary offensive option is the reason why Butler was efficient and anyway I showed you the stats where oladipo is 23 and Butler 26. Doesn't matter what oladipo was supposed to be or where he was drafted. Not like Butler was capable of doing better at that age. Never mind that Butler at age 24 shot sub 40% from FG and sub 30% from 3. Or the fact that Oladipo is considered a bad shooter even though he's a better career 3pt shooter. Or the fact that butler was on a better team at age 23.

5ass
03-31-2016, 09:36 PM
Not to mention that Butler put up the last two impressive numbers while being the 3rd/4th option in Chicago; Olandipo was supposed to be Orlandos 1st/2nd option.

Lower volume usually = higher efficiency. And anyway oladipo isn't allowed to chuck up shots. He plays for skiles. It's not like he has a super high USG.

5ass
03-31-2016, 09:42 PM
Oladipo is 10th in PER among SGs (25+ games), top 5 in RPM. That is despite his adjustment period to a new coach.
Since skiles inserted him back into the starting line up:

35 games: 19.1 PPG-0.7bpg-2spg-4apg-5rpg shooting 48%fg-40%3pt-85%ft

Shammyguy3
03-31-2016, 10:41 PM
Avery Bradley, Amir Johnson, Mavs & Celtics 2016 1st rd pick for Jimmy Butler.

Amir Johnson could replace Gasol & Noah. Bradley provides them a starting wing.

Celtics acquire a top NBA star while still holding onto the Brooklyn pick.


Fixed.


The Bulls have a center. His name is Bobby Portis Jr. He's proven he can play well when given the time.
I would go for Oladipo over Boston's picks. Build around guys like Oladipo, Portis, and maybe Nikola Mirotic, Doug McDermott and Tony Snell. Let Derrick Rose's deal expire, then sign him at a discount or get rid of him. Use guys like Taj Gibson as trade bait to pick up more assets. Chicago has multiple avenues moving forward.


Per 36 min this year
Oladipo at 23 yrs old- 17.4ppg-4.3apg-5.3rpg
Butler at 26 yrs old- 20.4ppg-4.3apg-5.0rpg

With oladipo having the better career 3 pt%. At 23 years old, Oladipo was better than 23 yr old Butler. I'm just saying Oladipo gets underrated here and so does his potential. I think its very possible he becomes as good as butler. That's why I wouldn't include him in a magic package.


Lol the fact that he wasn't a primary offensive option is the reason why Butler was efficient and anyway I showed you the stats where oladipo is 23 and Butler 26. Doesn't matter what oladipo was supposed to be or where he was drafted. Not like Butler was capable of doing better at that age. Never mind that Butler at age 24 shot sub 40% from FG and sub 30% from 3. Or the fact that Oladipo is considered a bad shooter even though he's a better career 3pt shooter. Or the fact that butler was on a better team at age 23.

That's not true at all as evident by Butler's been steadily relied on at a greater level every year and he's still maintained a great efficiency. My fault on the ages, i misread your post.

Still though - I don't understand your point. Oladipo is a good player but he's not the player the Bulls want back in a Butler trade unless we're also getting a high-end draft pick. Oladipo just isn't that good, whereas Butler is a debatable (at least in my mind) top-10 player. Looking at their efficiency rates THIS season now that you brought up my misreading your post:

Butler: 24.3usg% 0.175 WS/48 115 ORtg 55.9ts% 19.6ast% 8.9tov% on the league's 25th best offense
Oladipo: 23.0usg% 0.100 WS/48 105 ORtg 53.5ts% 19.1ast% 12.7tov% on the league's 24th best offense


Safe to say, Butler is on a whole different tier offensively than Oladipo is.


Lower volume usually = higher efficiency. And anyway oladipo isn't allowed to chuck up shots. He plays for skiles. It's not like he has a super high USG.

His usage is actually pretty high, it's low for a first option but high for a second option

Vampirate
03-31-2016, 10:47 PM
Raptors offer, pretty much anyone and picks (except Lowry obv) for Butler.

5ass
04-01-2016, 12:31 AM
That's not true at all as evident by Butler's been steadily relied on at a greater level every year and he's still maintained a great efficiency. My fault on the ages, i misread your post.

Still though - I don't understand your point. Oladipo is a good player but he's not the player the Bulls want back in a Butler trade unless we're also getting a high-end draft pick. Oladipo just isn't that good, whereas Butler is a debatable (at least in my mind) top-10 player. Looking at their efficiency rates THIS season now that you brought up my misreading your post:

Butler: 24.3usg% 0.175 WS/48 115 ORtg 55.9ts% 19.6ast% 8.9tov% on the league's 25th best offense
Oladipo: 23.0usg% 0.100 WS/48 105 ORtg 53.5ts% 19.1ast% 12.7tov% on the league's 24th best offense


Safe to say, Butler is on a whole different tier offensively than Oladipo is.



His usage is actually pretty high, it's low for a first option but high for a second option

I ****ed up Jimmy's age initially, my bad you probably read my post before I edited it and fixed it.

The relationship between efficiency and USG is well known. All you have to do is look at butler's stats this year and last year. This year he has a higher USG%, but his efficiency (and his defense) took a hit. That's not necessarily always the case, but that's what happens more often than not.

Anyway I never said Oladipo was as good as Butler today, but he definitely has that potential IMO. I'm high on Butler, but he's arguably top 10, not clear top 10. He's not what I would consider elite, but not far from that. Oladipo has two years to catch up to where butler was when he exploded (25). I think by that time its very possible he's just as good.

As for oladipo's USG its really not high for a combo guard. http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/sg/sort/usageRate

He was the best player on the Magic this year and was able to lead his team to 33-35 wins. Not bad for a 23 year old. I just think Oladipo gets severely underrated sometimes. He can literally do it all. 5+ blocks, 6+ steals, 37+ points, 10+ assists, 14+ rebounds. 10+ Fts, 6+ 3pt FGM. His season high for each category is very impressive. Despite improving every single season, people still think he is what he is. IMO he's just a late bloomer.

JAZZNC
04-01-2016, 12:44 AM
Jazz give up Hood, Favors, and a 1st for Butler. Wouldn't wanna offer much more than that. But that probably wouldn't get a deal done. I do like a potential line up with Exum, Butler, Hayward, Lyles, and Gobert. Butler and Hayward would work very well together IMO. But it's just a pipe dream....

ChI_ShIzzLe
04-01-2016, 12:46 AM
Obviously nothing is gonna happen until after the draft lottery, so if Philly lands their highly likely top 3 pick, we want that pick + Okafor for Butler. I'll take the opportunity to build a future around Okafor/Simmons, Ingram or Hield and hopefully a healthy Rose for the remainder of his career if he accepts a much cheaper contract.

basketballkitty
04-01-2016, 12:58 AM
Obviously nothing is gonna happen until after the draft lottery, so if Philly lands their highly likely top 3 pick, we want that pick + Okafor for Butler. I'll take the opportunity to build a future around Okafor/Simmons, Ingram or Hield and hopefully a healthy Rose for the remainder of his career if he accepts a much cheaper contract.


You're dreaming. I like Butler as a stable good young player. But Okafor is 7 years younger, and has already proven to be a Dominant post & rebounding Center. His rookie numbers are way better then Cousins accross the board, and without the Attitude and Issues. Plus Chicago would be getting another beloved Chicago Home town product. That right there will help with selling tickets. So no way do they add their 1st rounder which will likely be top-2. Hinkie MIGHT add in a player like Covington, and maybe even Saric's rights. But even then he might demand something else besides Butler coming back.

Stunner
04-01-2016, 01:09 AM
Oh boyyyyyyyy

BallDontLie
04-01-2016, 08:47 AM
Obviously nothing is gonna happen until after the draft lottery, so if Philly lands their highly likely top 3 pick, we want that pick + Okafor for Butler. I'll take the opportunity to build a future around Okafor/Simmons, Ingram or Hield and hopefully a healthy Rose for the remainder of his career if he accepts a much cheaper contract.

well we wont be giving up our own pick inside the top 2 prob not even top 3. It would likely be the LAL pick plus others to be offered. Were not passing on Ingram or Simmons for Butler. Okafor and a top 2 pick would be an overpay if you ask me.

valade16
04-01-2016, 09:20 AM
You're dreaming. I like Butler as a stable good young player. But Okafor is 7 years younger, and has already proven to be a Dominant post & rebounding Center. His rookie numbers are way better then Cousins accross the board, and without the Attitude and Issues. Plus Chicago would be getting another beloved Chicago Home town product. That right there will help with selling tickets. So no way do they add their 1st rounder which will likely be top-2. Hinkie MIGHT add in a player like Covington, and maybe even Saric's rights. But even then he might demand something else besides Butler coming back.

If that's all Hinkie adds to the trade then Hinkie WILL NOT get Butler lol.

BallDontLie
04-01-2016, 10:45 AM
lol yea he's clueless, said the same thing in our forum. The rest of us are willing to trade that LAL pick and then some, just not our own first this year. We have plenty of picks to choose from lol.

ChI_ShIzzLe
04-02-2016, 12:52 AM
You're dreaming. I like Butler as a stable good young player. But Okafor is 7 years younger, and has already proven to be a Dominant post & rebounding Center. His rookie numbers are way better then Cousins accross the board, and without the Attitude and Issues. Plus Chicago would be getting another beloved Chicago Home town product. That right there will help with selling tickets. So no way do they add their 1st rounder which will likely be top-2. Hinkie MIGHT add in a player like Covington, and maybe even Saric's rights. But even then he might demand something else besides Butler coming back.


well we wont be giving up our own pick inside the top 2 prob not even top 3. It would likely be the LAL pick plus others to be offered. Were not passing on Ingram or Simmons for Butler. Okafor and a top 2 pick would be an overpay if you ask me.

I'm glad to see Sixers fans share the same logic as their front office executives. You're getting a proven NBA All-Star who has played more minutes than anyone in the league for the last 3 seasons and other than missing a handful of games, has shown great durability while being one of the best 2-way players in the game.

Instead you wanna keep drafting unknowns and hoping the **** sticks to the wall. Sure hasn't worked out for you guys. Okafor alone will not net you Jimmy Butler. Yes he's got great potential but he's still a very young player and a lot can go wrong still. You are highly underrating Butler if you think he's worth only Okafor. Multiple 1st rd picks will have to be involved if not this year's top 3.

Wade n Fade
04-02-2016, 12:51 PM
I think the Bulls are making a huge mistake by even fielding offers for Jimmy Butler. If anything, they need to get rid of everyone but Jimmy, Gasol, Portis, Snell, Mirotic, and McDermott.

BallDontLie
04-02-2016, 01:00 PM
I'm glad to see Sixers fans share the same logic as their front office executives. You're getting a proven NBA All-Star who has played more minutes than anyone in the league for the last 3 seasons and other than missing a handful of games, has shown great durability while being one of the best 2-way players in the game.

Instead you wanna keep drafting unknowns and hoping the **** sticks to the wall. Sure hasn't worked out for you guys. Okafor alone will not net you Jimmy Butler. Yes he's got great potential but he's still a very young player and a lot can go wrong still. You are highly underrating Butler if you think he's worth only Okafor. Multiple 1st rd picks will have to be involved if not this year's top 3.

well for starters im not on the same page as the other poster, no one in our forum is. I simply said we wont deal both Okafor and our potentially number 1 overall pick this year, thats not smart for us. We have plenty of other picks that im sure would be offered, like i said starting with the Lakers top 3 protected pick, Kings 2019 unprotected pick, etc. You gonna try and tell me the Bulls wouldnt be thrilled with Okafor, Saric, LAL pick, Miami pick and a Sixers future first?

Rndy
04-02-2016, 01:05 PM
Hopefully get some Young players with upside and draft picks. I have zero interest in guys that will potentially keep us still competitive stop putting a bandaid on a gun shot wound. I'm just glad JR doesn't own the Cubs as well he only ruins one of my teams.

Forever35
04-02-2016, 02:30 PM
I don't see Philly, LAL, Suns or Minny trading away the 1st or 2nd pick for Butler... Except for LAL the rest have proven they like the combination of losing and youth...

I definitely see DA trading the 1st or 2nd pick if the C's get lucky for Butler... His salary would have to be matched so Smart + a team optioned Amir Johnson the BK draft pick and the Dal draft pick...

Orlando can offer some talented youth, but their draft pick status is late lottery...

Chronz
04-02-2016, 04:21 PM
You're dreaming. I like Butler as a stable good young player. But Okafor is 7 years younger, and has already proven to be a Dominant post & rebounding Center. His rookie numbers are way better then Cousins accross the board, and without the Attitude and Issues. Plus Chicago would be getting another beloved Chicago Home town product. That right there will help with selling tickets. So no way do they add their 1st rounder which will likely be top-2. Hinkie MIGHT add in a player like Covington, and maybe even Saric's rights. But even then he might demand something else besides Butler coming back.

I don't think any thing you said revolving around Okafor rings true. Was Cousins really that bad as a rook? I doubt it

basketballkitty
04-02-2016, 04:32 PM
I don't think any thing you said revolving around Okafor rings true. Was Cousins really that bad as a rook? I doubt it



I never said Cousins was bad as a rookie. I said Okafor's were better accross the board. And they were. Especially when you consider Cousins went on to a MUCH more stable roster then what Philly has had this past season.

Alayla
04-02-2016, 08:01 PM
I don't think any thing you said revolving around Okafor rings true. Was Cousins really that bad as a rook? I doubt it

Not that I'm defending Basketballkitty here but a lot of things point to Okafor having a better rookie season than Cousins.
I want to know when averaging 17 and 7 on 50% FG became bad?
Yes defensively hes an all time awful mess right now
But DMC was never great on that end himself.
I follow both teams so I really have no adjenda here in fact I dislike Okafor on a lot of levels but purely offensively speaking hes doing better than DMC did.

Dade County
04-03-2016, 12:49 PM
You're dreaming. I like Butler as a stable good young player. But Okafor is 7 years younger, and has already proven to be a Dominant post & rebounding Center. His rookie numbers are way better then Cousins accross the board, and without the Attitude and Issues. Plus Chicago would be getting another beloved Chicago Home town product. That right there will help with selling tickets. So no way do they add their 1st rounder which will likely be top-2. Hinkie MIGHT add in a player like Covington, and maybe even Saric's rights. But even then he might demand something else besides Butler coming back.

Agree...

Just like the Bulls front office, their fan base will over vaule bulls players too.

I dont see them trading butler, they will realize they have to go convince free agents to sign with them & bulid the rest of their team that way.

Bulls front office needs to man up.

basketballkitty
04-03-2016, 01:23 PM
Agree...

Just like the Bulls front office, their fan base will over vaule bulls players too.

I dont see them trading butler, they will realize they have to go convince free agents to sign with them & bulid the rest of their team that way.

Bulls front office needs to man up.




Maybe but, in order to have even 25 million in Cap space, they would have to let Noah and Gasol go. That will leave them very thin. And they won't even have enough to say sign a Marquee PF like Horford with that. And that still leaves them with No Center.

Chronz
04-03-2016, 06:54 PM
I never said Cousins was bad as a rookie. I said Okafor's were better accross the board. And they were. Especially when you consider Cousins went on to a MUCH more stable roster then what Philly has had this past season.
I never said you did. But i just checked the numbers, I've forgotten how bad of a rookie season he had.

basketballkitty
04-03-2016, 06:58 PM
I never said you did. But i just checked the numbers, I've forgotten how bad of a rookie season he had.

Cousins wasn't bad, it just wasn't what Okafor's was when you take in all the factors. Cousins's did make the All-rookie 1st team, and has grown into an elite level Big. Even if it is for hi his own personal numbers, and not the team. But, his numbers will always be desirable by other teams.

Chronz
04-03-2016, 07:02 PM
Not that I'm defending Basketballkitty here but a lot of things point to Okafor having a better rookie season than Cousins.
I want to know when averaging 17 and 7 on 50% FG became bad?
Yes defensively hes an all time awful mess right now
But DMC was never great on that end himself.
I follow both teams so I really have no adjenda here in fact I dislike Okafor on a lot of levels but purely offensively speaking hes doing better than DMC did.

DMC became a good defender under Malone he just stopped displaying it due to the lack of contention. Which is no excuse but the talent is there, not sure if Okafor can develop into the same level of rim protecting but i said that about a rookie Bogut.

Offensively they are pretty comparable, but if we look at Okas numbers since Ish returned hes definitely outplayed DMC.

And fg% is an outdated barometer, on the surface it sounds efficient but he's been well below league average in terms of possession efficiency

Chronz
04-03-2016, 07:05 PM
Cousins wasn't bad, it just wasn't what Okafor's was when you take in all the factors. Cousins's did make the All-rookie 1st team, and has grown into an elite level Big. Even if it is for hi his own personal numbers, and not the team. But, his numbers will always be desirable by other teams.
Not seeing ur argument. Are we comparing him to his own rookie class or how his production stacks up historically? Because i don't see the relevance of an all rookie selection if we're widening the scope, historically speaking, it was objectively bad. Below league average bad.

Vincent
04-03-2016, 07:11 PM
You're dreaming. I like Butler as a stable good young player. But Okafor is 7 years younger, and has already proven to be a Dominant post & rebounding Center. His rookie numbers are way better then Cousins accross the board, and without the Attitude and Issues. Plus Chicago would be getting another beloved Chicago Home town product. That right there will help with selling tickets. So no way do they add their 1st rounder which will likely be top-2. Hinkie MIGHT add in a player like Covington, and maybe even Saric's rights. But even then he might demand something else besides Butler coming back.

The selling the "hometown kid" product really has no bearing. Chicago has been in the top numbers in attendance regardless of who's on the court in the last 2 decades. Selling tickets to the stadium really shouldn't be a factor at all when making player personnel decisions.

basketballkitty
04-03-2016, 07:17 PM
DMC became a good defender under Malone he just stopped displaying it due to the lack of contention. Which is no excuse but the talent is there, not sure if Okafor can develop into the same level of rim protecting but i said that about a rookie Bogut.

Offensively they are pretty comparable, but if we look at Okas numbers since Ish returned hes definitely outplayed DMC.

And fg% is an outdated barometer, on the surface it sounds efficient but he's been well below league average in terms of possession efficiency




Sorry but Under Malone, the Kings were the worst defensive squad in the league. Not blaming all that on Cousins alone but so many times in the past 3 years I have seen DC not even attempt to guard anyone, especially outside the paint. Same to goes for his offense. Most times he would rather not have to work hard down low and Bump & grind, rather he would pull out a Jumper from 12 to 15 feet...most times missing it.


I mean think about it, here is a 6ft,11, 275Lb Man monster in the paint...who in his 6 NBA seasons has never ever shot even 50 % from the field in any season. Okay, I can understand if a fresh Raw rookie Big did that his first season, maybe two. But ALL 6 of Cousins seasons ?



Okafor plays with really no set line-up. Has no players like a Rudy Gay to play with, or a Rondo this season, or a Collison. And yet Okafor did shoot over 50 % in his first year while being his teams go-to guy. And at 19/20. I don't know but that seems pretty Impressive.

mrblisterdundee
04-04-2016, 01:44 AM
But seriously; the Bulls should do what's necessary to keep Butler. He's on a new contract and in his prime. Their whole team has dealt with injury issues, so obviously being healthy is the difference for them. Trading Rose's expiring contract could help with that.