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View Full Version : 76ers Could Look To Trade Jahlil Okafor In Offseason



spreadeagle
03-27-2016, 01:38 PM
If Joel Embiid is healthy this summer, the belief is the Philadelphia 76ers will try to trade Jahlil Okafor this summer. If he isn't, the 76ers will have to choose between Okafor and Nerlens Noel.

Okafor and Embiid are an unlikely pairing as they both will have liabilities defending athletic power forwards.

The Boston Herald had reported that the Sixers had a deal in place to trade Okafor to the Boston Celtics at the Feb. 18 trade deadline.

Okafor and Noel have struggled to coexist as well. http://www.philly.com/philly/sports/sixers/Jahlil_Okafor_uncertain_future_with_the_Sixers.htm l

Scoots
03-27-2016, 01:47 PM
So, if Embiid isn't healthy they trade nobody? I guess we'll get some kind of answer this offseason then.

IndyRealist
03-27-2016, 01:55 PM
In other news, water is wet.

Alayla
03-27-2016, 02:10 PM
In other news, water is wet.

Pretty much this trading Okafor made sense from the moment he was drafted.
It was a pick I would do 10 times out of 10 if I'm hinkie in that situation at the time but in 100% retrospect id rather have Devin Booker personally.
Outside of that any deal involving Okafor needs to be for an allstar or very good player at a position of need.

DboneG
03-27-2016, 02:15 PM
Yes, I think Jahill Okafor could get traded in the offseason. His off court trouble(s) raised a flag in the 6ers organization. Okafor's dad had expressed displeasure that his son was going to play for the organization. They told the 6ers through their agent, not to draft him. And the 6ers drafted him anyway. Choosing the best player available.causing a logjam of big men on the team. Jahill don't play with a chip on his shoulder, or a sense of urgency. His defense is suspect, rebounding could be better, his scoring is good. He have a lot of upside.

If I were the 6ers...I'd dump him.

GiantsSwaGG
03-27-2016, 02:27 PM
They should of drafted KP

Scoots
03-27-2016, 02:30 PM
outside of that any deal involving okafor needs to be for an allstar or very good player at a position of need.

lol

DboneG
03-27-2016, 02:37 PM
Right...looking back, Devin Booker would have been a nice pick up for them.

DanG
03-27-2016, 02:45 PM
it depends how the lottery goes, if the Sixers end up with #1 or #2 and the Lakers get the 3rd pick then:

Lou Williams + #3 (Hield? Dunn? Murray?) for Okafor?

Ish Smith
Hield/Lou
Ingram or Simmons
Noel
Embiid

Idk lol

WaDe03
03-27-2016, 02:46 PM
MCW Embiid and Okafor. 3 wasted years of the tank. Please move this team to the D League.

More-Than-Most
03-27-2016, 03:58 PM
MCW Embiid and Okafor. 3 wasted years of the tank. Please move this team to the D League.

this is all this thread will be and it boggles my mind how we sixers fans continually have to deal with this baiting in the general forum... you bring nothing to the topic at all about the pros/cons/strengths/weaknesses and why or why not they should do this but instead go your obvious trolling/baiting route that so many in here take and its getting old. How about your further yourself as a poster and try bringing anything at all to the topic.

valade16
03-27-2016, 04:01 PM
The most troubling thing for me if I were a 76ers fan would be the mistaken belief by the organization that how good a player is during their rookie season is as good as they'll ever be.

Alayla
03-27-2016, 04:14 PM
lol

I of course mean in a package and not straight up but we are not trading him in order to go backwards I assure you of that much. (This coming from someone who really doesn't like Okafor on this team.)

kobe4thewinbang
03-27-2016, 04:14 PM
And to think one time this time actually reached the NBA Finals and stunned the Lakers in one game.

Trade Okafor? Trade the best player they've drafted in the past years that isn't injury-prone or otherwise useless?

When do they start moving forward, actually?

Alayla
03-27-2016, 04:15 PM
The most troubling thing for me if I were a 76ers fan would be the mistaken belief by the organization that how good a player is during their rookie season is as good as they'll ever be.

When did they ever once state or imply this in any way?

Alayla
03-27-2016, 04:17 PM
And to think one time this time actually reached the NBA Finals and stunned the Lakers in one game.

Trade Okafor? Trade the best player they've drafted in the past years that isn't injury-prone or otherwise useless?

When do they start moving forward, actually?

Trading Okafor is part of moving forward you don't move forward with 3 centers the organization is very high on Embiid and Noel and are looking to fill holes and package Okafor for a potential upgrade somewhere of need.

Alayla
03-27-2016, 04:19 PM
it depends how the lottery goes, if the Sixers end up with #1 or #2 and the Lakers get the 3rd pick then:

Lou Williams + #3 (Hield? Dunn? Murray?) for Okafor?

Ish Smith
Hield/Lou
Ingram or Simmons
Noel
Embiid

Idk lol

Okafor for 3 is exactly the opposite direction we are headed if we wanted that we would have taken the boston package said to include the Brooklyn pick.

Scoots
03-27-2016, 04:19 PM
When did they ever once state or imply this in any way?

I think the implication is that they moved MCW and KJ and now supposedly Okafor very quickly ... they are not giving them much time to develop.

Scoots
03-27-2016, 04:21 PM
Trading Okafor is part of moving forward you don't move forward with 3 centers the organization is very high on Embiid and Noel and are looking to fill holes and package Okafor for a potential upgrade somewhere of need.

It makes sense ... assets are assets and if you can't use them to get better there is no point in getting the assets in the first place. The shame of it is that the Sixers bets haven't been paying off thus far. Not that they are bad bets, just that they seem to keep losing a little on each bet aimed at getting better.

Alayla
03-27-2016, 04:22 PM
MCW Embiid and Okafor. 3 wasted years of the tank. Please move this team to the D League.

MCW was an 11th pick from the same year of the holiday trade that we flipped for the lakers pick that's a win
Embiid the jury is still out on
Okafor just had a very strong rookie season and is in no way a waste of a pick gtfo :D

Alayla
03-27-2016, 04:33 PM
I think the implication is that they moved MCW and KJ and now supposedly Okafor very quickly ... they are not giving them much time to develop.

MCW they honestly got an offer they should never realistically have gotten for.
KJ kinda forced our hand but that's actually the only move I was upset with in this rebuild.
Okafor everyone really should have seen coming.

But people like Noel Covington and Grant have conversely been given a very long leash.
Its more like we are trying to figure out who are keepers and who we should move.

basketballkitty
03-27-2016, 04:43 PM
First things first, Joel Embiid healthy has the athletic ability to stay with any C & PF in the league. So yeah he can easily guard either. Same with Noel, but he is easier more Okafor is young, and has shown more Offensive force Inside the paint then any other C ever given the same age. He will be a Monster on Offense and Rebounding very soon. And you never give those players away for just Draft picks, cause until they can actually prove they can play, they're just that, unproven prospects. If he is moved, the most obvious deal would be Okafor going home to Chicago in a deal for Jimmy Butler. After this season the Bulls will have no C on their team. And it is clear that there are some sort of issues between Rose and Butler. Which would explain why Chicago almost had a deal done with Orlando for Butler, but Orlando pulled out.


That is the deal I can see that would most make sense.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-27-2016, 04:57 PM
logic does not apply to Sixers

Scoots
03-27-2016, 05:09 PM
MCW they honestly got an offer they should never realistically have gotten for.
KJ kinda forced our hand but that's actually the only move I was upset with in this rebuild.
Okafor everyone really should have seen coming.

But people like Noel Covington and Grant have conversely been given a very long leash.
Its more like we are trying to figure out who are keepers and who we should move.

I didn't think much of MCW and predicted he'd be moved a year before he was. He struck me as a career backup type. KJ was really smart maneuvering on his part, he had faith in himself and took advantage of it to get a deal that got him his freedom. Okafor, if he's moved, it's because he isn't one of the Sixers 5 best players to play as a team together and the best time to move him is when he's been a starter rather than if he's a bench player next year.

It all makes sense, and I applaud the Sixers ownership, front office, and coaches for actually trying something new ... it's just that people look at the transaction line without the whole story and come to the conclusion that the Sixers are not trying to get better and not trying to develop players.

Stunner
03-27-2016, 05:35 PM
Come home to Chicago

McAllen Tx
03-27-2016, 05:51 PM
And to think one time this time actually reached the NBA Finals and stunned the Lakers in one game.

Trade Okafor? Trade the best player they've drafted in the past years that isn't injury-prone or otherwise useless?

When do they start moving forward, actually?

You do know that Oak had minor knee surgery and out for the season right?

basketballkitty
03-27-2016, 06:06 PM
You do know that Oak had minor knee surgery and out for the season right?



How is that Injury Prone ? That type of procedure has been done to MJ 9 times in his career. It's just usually an Off-season thing. It's nothing.

Bostonjorge
03-27-2016, 06:39 PM
Okafor the only player worth anything in philly right now. Embiid is a bust. Trading Okafor and having Embiid carry the offense will set philly up for failure and 9-10 wins next season.

WaDe03
03-27-2016, 07:06 PM
Do philly fans support the tank?

europagnpilgrim
03-27-2016, 07:16 PM
MCW Embiid and Okafor. 3 wasted years of the tank. Please move this team to the D League.

What makes it far far worse is they have had throughout its historic franchise players such Big Dipper and Doc J and Barkley and Moses and The Answer and few others I am missing, its all good to draft the best player available as long as you have a clue on who to package(for a player of need) so it wont cause a logjam or bad fit, that's where they went wrong

its hard to build from tanking but not hard to build a competitive good young team in the process when compiling top 3 picks for years in a row like Philly, they are acting like they have The Answer the way they have drafted athletic bigs the past few years, they should have drafted Russell to compliment Noel and soon to hopefully be healthy Embiid

but I guess if you couldn't build around The Answer in his youth then they deserve to be in a D league, YMCA for that matter in this era

Alayla
03-27-2016, 07:18 PM
What makes it far far worse is they have had throughout its historic franchise players such Big Dipper and Doc J and Barkley and Moses and The Answer and few others I am missing, its all good to draft the best player available as long as you have a clue on who to package(for a player of need) so it wont cause a logjam or bad fit, that's where they went wrong

its hard to build from tanking but not hard to build a competitive good young team in the process when compiling top 3 picks for years in a row like Philly, they are acting like they have The Answer the way they have drafted athletic bigs the past few years, they should have drafted Russell to compliment Noel and soon to hopefully be healthy Embiid

but I guess if you couldn't build around The Answer in his youth then they deserve to be in a D league, YMCA for that matter in this era

1. He was picked before our pick.
2. Its not the same FO that had Iverson lol.

valade16
03-27-2016, 07:32 PM
I didn't think much of MCW and predicted he'd be moved a year before he was. He struck me as a career backup type. KJ was really smart maneuvering on his part, he had faith in himself and took advantage of it to get a deal that got him his freedom. Okafor, if he's moved, it's because he isn't one of the Sixers 5 best players to play as a team together and the best time to move him is when he's been a starter rather than if he's a bench player next year.

It all makes sense, and I applaud the Sixers ownership, front office, and coaches for actually trying something new ... it's just that people look at the transaction line without the whole story and come to the conclusion that the Sixers are not trying to get better and not trying to develop players.

But they are factually not trying to get better right now, and they haven't been trying to get better for the past 3 years. They've been trying to get worse so down the road they can get better. If you truly think they've been trying to get better the last 3 years I don't see how you can applaud them as by any objective measure they've failed in that task.

Given that, I'm not going to applaud them for trying to be bad and succeeding. I will applaud them when they actually start to implement the far more difficult phase of their plan.

Scoots
03-27-2016, 07:41 PM
But they are factually not trying to get better right now, and they haven't been trying to get better for the past 3 years. They've been trying to get worse so down the road they can get better. If you truly think they've been trying to get better the last 3 years I don't see how you can applaud them as by any objective measure they've failed in that task.

Given that, I'm not going to applaud them for trying to be bad and succeeding. I will applaud them when they actually start to implement the far more difficult phase of their plan.
I applaud the effort. I was not judging the results.

IKnowHoops
03-27-2016, 08:26 PM
I'd give them Rubio and Shabazz for him as a Wolves fan.

ewing
03-27-2016, 08:54 PM
Pretty much this trading Okafor made sense from the moment he was drafted.
It was a pick I would do 10 times out of 10 if I'm hinkie in that situation at the time but in 100% retrospect id rather have Devin Booker personally.
Outside of that any deal involving Okafor needs to be for an allstar or very good player at a position of need.


then they should have traded the pick on draft night or taken someone else

More-Than-Most
03-27-2016, 09:17 PM
then they should have traded the pick on draft night or taken someone else

Sure if your an idiotic GM and franchise and want to deal from a position of weakness then this would make perfect sense. You draft the best available when you are one of the 3 worst teams in basketball and trying to trade away a pick with a player on the board that every team knows you want to trade away because of the abundance of talent you have at the position equates to getting bad value... drafting him was smart.... playing him and seeing how good he is was also smart... trading him away if Embiid is healthy also fits... Him or Noel have to go if Embiid is fully healthy... Drafting him with Russ off the board was 100 percent the right move... trading him if Embiid is healthy is again 100 percent the right move... We took the best available at a position where we have another huge question mark player in Embiid

Mell413
03-27-2016, 09:22 PM
If they had no intention of keeping Okafor they should have just taken Porzingis. I didn't have a problem with them blowing it up, but I don't think they have executed it all that well so far.

basketballkitty
03-27-2016, 09:23 PM
Sure if your an idiotic GM and franchise and want to deal from a position of weakness then this would make perfect sense. You draft the best available when you are one of the 3 worst teams in basketball and trying to trade away a pick with a player on the board that every team knows you want to trade away because of the abundance of talent you have at the position equates to getting bad value... drafting him was smart.... playing him and seeing how good he is was also smart... trading him away if Embiid is healthy also fits... Him or Noel have to go if Embiid is fully healthy... Drafting him with Russ off the board was 100 percent the right move... trading him if Embiid is healthy is again 100 percent the right move... We took the best available at a position where we have another huge question mark player in Embiid





Being Healthy is a given for Embiid, even right now he is completely healed according to the expert Doctors. But being Healthy, and being able to play in this league are two different things. And Hinkie already stated that Embiid will not play in any summer games. So the earliest anyone will ever see of him won't be til the pre-season starts.....well after summer. So Philly will have to trade someone before then, like On draft night. Or right after July 1st when the new Salary Cap kicks in. But either way, a deal will have to be done well before Joel ever sees the court. Either that, or hold on to all of them, and move one maybe during the trade deadline next season.

ewing
03-27-2016, 09:39 PM
Sure if your an idiotic GM and franchise and want to deal from a position of weakness then this would make perfect sense. You draft the best available when you are one of the 3 worst teams in basketball and trying to trade away a pick with a player on the board that every team knows you want to trade away because of the abundance of talent you have at the position equates to getting bad value... drafting him was smart.... playing him and seeing how good he is was also smart... trading him away if Embiid is healthy also fits... Him or Noel have to go if Embiid is fully healthy... Drafting him with Russ off the board was 100 percent the right move... trading him if Embiid is healthy is again 100 percent the right move... We took the best available at a position where we have another huge question mark player in Embiid

sounds like what you are doing now.

IKnowHoops
03-27-2016, 09:43 PM
Oak would look nice next to Towns in a T wolves jersey.

Stunner
03-27-2016, 09:43 PM
Take Jimmy Butler and our 1st this year and give us your lower round 1st picks this year and next years 1st

Scoots
03-27-2016, 10:19 PM
I didn't have a problem with them blowing it up, but I don't think they have executed it all that well so far.

It certainly hasn't worked like they hoped.

basketballkitty
03-27-2016, 10:30 PM
Take Jimmy Butler and our 1st this year and give us your lower round 1st picks this year and next years 1st



So it would be what ?


Okafor, or Miami & OKC 1st this draft, and our 2017 1st for Butler and the Bulls 2016 1st rounder ?

mngopher35
03-27-2016, 10:33 PM
Oak would look nice next to Towns in a T wolves jersey.

Why? We need shooting and defense more than anything and he provides neither. It also arguably forces Towns out of position making him less valuable.

As for the thread I wonder if he has lost value now due to early antics, this injury (although very minor), and the knowledge that they have too many centers on the roster. Not saying he won't get something good in return, I just wonder if it will be considered equal value for his talent level/age/potential.


Edit: Or maybe instead of the injury concerns which might not change anything, him having the largest negative on/off differential of any remaining player (wroten was slightly worse in that area). None of these ruin his skill set or potential but the extra questions might take away from his initial perceived value (where some thought he could/should go #1).

Aust
03-27-2016, 10:49 PM
That was quick. I think Boston could be a good fit.

basketballkitty
03-27-2016, 10:51 PM
Why? We need shooting and defense more than anything and he provides neither. It also arguably forces Towns out of position making him less valuable.

As for the thread I wonder if he has lost value now due to early antics, this injury (although very minor), and the knowledge that they have too many centers on the roster. Not saying he won't get something good in return, I just wonder if it will be considered equal value for his talent level/age/potential.




That incident in Boston was a one time thing. And he was baited by the fan who also first attacked him. Now was it wrong ?...yes. Okafor should have walked away. But stop acting like it was a huge deal. Okafor has been a great citizen his entire life. And as far as there are multiple teams interested in any player, that team will always have the upper hand.

Aust
03-27-2016, 10:58 PM
That incident in Boston was a one time thing. And he was baited by the fan who also first attacked him. Now was it wrong ?...yes. Okafor should have walked away. But stop acting like it was a huge deal. Okafor has been a great citizen his entire life. And as far as there are multiple teams interested in any player, that team will always have the upper hand.

It wasn't a one time thing. He got in another fight after the first.

Stunner
03-27-2016, 11:00 PM
So it would be what ?


Okafor, or Miami & OKC 1st this draft, and our 2017 1st for Butler and the Bulls 2016 1st rounder ?

It would Butler and Bulls 2016 for Okafor and those 3 picks

naps
03-27-2016, 11:04 PM
Woah that was quick to give up on the results of a 82 game sucking Al Jefferson version 2.0.

Scoots
03-27-2016, 11:10 PM
Woah that was quick to give up on the results of a 82 game sucking Al Jefferson version 2.0.

He didn't make it to 82 games. He's not gone yet. He had one foot out the door when he was drafted as he had a reasonable chance of not fitting in the process.

basketballkitty
03-27-2016, 11:13 PM
It wasn't a one time thing. He got in another fight after the first.


It was the same Incident cause it happened at that same time. A different Incident would mean it happened on a later date. The other guy was one who also attacked, or ran up on Okafor and started it first. Okafor reacted badly yes I agree. He could have hurt that man seriously, or himself. But it WAS the same One time Incident.

basketballkitty
03-27-2016, 11:15 PM
It would Butler and Bulls 2016 for Okafor and those 3 picks



I would do it. But Chicago would likely have to take back some Salary as well...most likely Carl Landry...to make the numbers work. He will be on his last year anyways, so no big deal for the Bulls to release him, or keep if they want.

mngopher35
03-27-2016, 11:28 PM
That incident in Boston was a one time thing. And he was baited by the fan who also first attacked him. Now was it wrong ?...yes. Okafor should have walked away. But stop acting like it was a huge deal. Okafor has been a great citizen his entire life. And as far as there are multiple teams interested in any player, that team will always have the upper hand.

For the most part I agree but he was ticketed for 108 MPH, had the incident in Philly where allegedly a gun was pulled on him, and then the Boston stuff as well (http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/76ers--jahlil-okafor-allegedly-got-in-a-second-fight-in-boston--and-there-s-video-190952697.html). It doesn't ruin his character completely but it is something that is now added for a team to consider when trading for him (along with the other things mentioned).

Again I don't see any of them as too major but it could lessen his value in a trade overall compared to back when he was considered a possibility for #1.

KINGOFSPORTS
03-27-2016, 11:41 PM
Okafor was a terrible pick. I'm glad it's common knowledge now

IKnowHoops
03-27-2016, 11:43 PM
Why? We need shooting and defense more than anything and he provides neither. It also arguably forces Towns out of position making him less valuable.

As for the thread I wonder if he has lost value now due to early antics, this injury (although very minor), and the knowledge that they have too many centers on the roster. Not saying he won't get something good in return, I just wonder if it will be considered equal value for his talent level/age/potential.


Edit: Or maybe instead of the injury concerns which might not change anything, him having the largest negative on/off differential of any remaining player (wroten was slightly worse in that area). None of these ruin his skill set or potential but the extra questions might take away from his initial perceived value (where some thought he could/should go #1).

No 20 year olds play good defense. He's already a good rebounder and scorer. Towns can play both center and PF. Because Towns is such a good shooter, maybe PF will be better for him. It may make towns better and put him more in position. I like his potential...if this was the best he was ever gonna be on defense, offense, shooting etc, then I'd be with you, but he will end up being a good to great player in all the ways a center/pf needs to be, so I think that would look good and develop nicely next to a developing towns.

Id still take Ben simmons first even if we got Okafor, but he'd be a nice piece to get fro Rubio IMO

Stunner
03-27-2016, 11:52 PM
I would do it. But Chicago would likely have to take back some Salary as well...most likely Carl Landry...to make the numbers work. He will be on his last year anyways, so no big deal for the Bulls to release him, or keep if they want.

Let's get it done , how much do y'all like Covington? Would y'all include him or nope

mngopher35
03-28-2016, 12:07 AM
No 20 year olds play good defense. He's already a good rebounder and scorer. Towns can play both center and PF. Because Towns is such a good shooter, maybe PF will be better for him. It may make towns better and put him more in position. I like his potential...if this was the best he was ever gonna be on defense, offense, shooting etc, then I'd be with you, but he will end up being a good to great player in all the ways a center/pf needs to be, so I think that would look good and develop nicely next to a developing towns.

Id still take Ben simmons first even if we got Okafor, but he'd be a nice piece to get fro Rubio IMO

I understand he isn't completely developed but he is bad on that end and even had questions coming in if he would ever be average or better. I like his potential for the skills he has but those skills do not fit what we currently need to add to our core. He is likely an elite scorer but we have plenty of that with our young group already and need other areas to round out the team. (Rubio for him doesn't seem realistic and even if it was I would look for a 3rd team for him in that scenario where we get something else).

Towns is capable of playing pf but if he plays center his value is amplified because he will bring the general rim protectors out to the 3 pt line by stepping out. He brings the most value at Center and Okafor brings the most value as a scorer, neither of which is used completely right with a trade and it only hurts our weakest area of defense.

basketballkitty
03-28-2016, 12:19 AM
Let's get it done , how much do y'all like Covington? Would y'all include him or nope




Cov is too valuable. Put him around better talent then we have now and he really explodes cause he can shoot, and rebound. Plus he has 3 years left on a deal that pays him 1 million per year. So he is very Cap friendly.

5ass
03-28-2016, 12:29 AM
You don't say... I could see Hinkie trading Noel too if he doesn't want to pay him a max contract in 2017.

basketballkitty
03-28-2016, 12:56 AM
You don't say... I could see Hinkie trading Noel too if he doesn't want to pay him a max contract in 2017.



I doubt unless he has a breakout season next year that no other team will offer Noel a Max contract at over 21 million a year. Even with the Cap going up again, there will be too many other free agent options. A team will offer him a good deal yes, but Philly will match it. Players like Noel, just like Tyson Chandler never lose trade value.

IKnowHoops
03-28-2016, 01:11 AM
I understand he isn't completely developed but he is bad on that end and even had questions coming in if he would ever be average or better. I like his potential for the skills he has but those skills do not fit what we currently need to add to our core. He is likely an elite scorer but we have plenty of that with our young group already and need other areas to round out the team. (Rubio for him doesn't seem realistic and even if it was I would look for a 3rd team for him in that scenario where we get something else).

Towns is capable of playing pf but if he plays center his value is amplified because he will bring the general rim protectors out to the 3 pt line by stepping out. He brings the most value at Center and Okafor brings the most value as a scorer, neither of which is used completely right with a trade and it only hurts our weakest area of defense.

I would hate to have him become an above average defender with Tim Duncan like offense and rebounding and think we passed because we wanted a proven good defender that won't really even matter until 2 years from now anyway.

Noah has good defense, would you rather have him or a prime Tim Duncan with average D?

I think judging a 19 year old's defense and condemning him for it is premature. Again, all 19 year olds are very bad on defense. He's a big body who is only going to get bigger and stronger. He will be able to push around 99% OF THE LEAGUE IN 4 YEARS.

mrblisterdundee
03-28-2016, 01:19 AM
Boston could benefit from Jahlil Okafor's inside scoring. A good lottery pick, Marcus Smart and Jared Sullinger would be a good offer. Okafor isn't great defensively; but offensively, he's started out faster than DeMarcus Cousins, and is on a cheap contract for several years.

5ass
03-28-2016, 01:22 AM
I doubt unless he has a breakout season next year that no other team will offer Noel a Max contract at over 21 million a year. Even with the Cap going up again, there will be too many other free agent options. A team will offer him a good deal yes, but Philly will match it. Players like Noel, just like Tyson Chandler never lose trade value.

Deandre Jordan got a max, noel could get one too.

Scoots
03-28-2016, 01:29 AM
I think judging a 19 year old's defense and condemning him for it is premature. Again, all 19 year olds are very bad on defense. He's a big body who is only going to get bigger and stronger. He will be able to push around 99% OF THE LEAGUE IN 4 YEARS.

I'm just being pedantic, but Dante Exum played very good D at 19.

WaDe03
03-28-2016, 01:39 AM
Justise is a great defender. But I do agree most of the time younger guys are too weak/slow to defend the NBA bodies at a young age.

basketballkitty
03-28-2016, 01:39 AM
Boston could benefit from Jahlil Okafor's inside scoring. A good lottery pick, Marcus Smart and Jared Sullinger would be a good offer. Okafor isn't great defensively; but offensively, he's started out faster than DeMarcus Cousins, and is on a cheap contract for several years.


All respect but that is a laughable offer. Smart has zero value. Boston has been looking to Dump him for a year now. His defense is highly overrated. And he couldn't hit water with the B-Ball if he threw it off the Titanic. And Sullinger...forgetting the fact that we have zero need for him. But he also is a restricted free agent, and if we wanted him, we could just sign him.

mngopher35
03-28-2016, 02:29 AM
I would hate to have him become an above average defender with Tim Duncan like offense and rebounding and think we passed because we wanted a proven good defender that won't really even matter until 2 years from now anyway.

Noah has good defense, would you rather have him or a prime Tim Duncan with average D?

I think judging a 19 year old's defense and condemning him for it is premature. Again, all 19 year olds are very bad on defense. He's a big body who is only going to get bigger and stronger. He will be able to push around 99% OF THE LEAGUE IN 4 YEARS.

The issue is that we would then never have a good defense while getting a better fit with great talent might be possible. I am not saying I wouldn't want him just for Rubio because value wise he has more around the league, but it would never happen and if it did I would try and cash in on that value in another way not just keep him.

I am saying I wouldn't go for Okafor for the value it would actually take to get him though (including our pick at least to your scenario) because it doesn't fit right. You may see Duncan type potential but I just don't think he gets there (even outside of defense, rebounding, IQ and shooting range seem like a reach). I think he can be a bit better than Big Al but not a fit for our team so I don't get the point in going after him. Sure if he turns into Duncan it would suck but if the more likely scenario where he doesn't happens we may have just screwed up by putting most of our assets outside Lavine/Wiggins/Towns into one somewhat risky talent who going in we knew wasn't a great fit.

You can keep saying he will get better at defense but I don't think he ever becomes an anchor and he can't guard 4's (likely has issues with P&R as well). This won't magically change as he gets better but the IQ/size could help him when he develops for sure, more in the 1v1 scenarios and limiting other deficiencies though. Towns can't always anchor guarding 4's and we don't know for sure where Lavine/Wiggins end up on that end so having someone likely to be somewhat of a liability at the 5 surrounding them is a risk not worth taking when we could instead just keep building on what we have and surround them with talent that fits. I guess just agree to disagree here but I would be disappointed if that was our direction this off-season.

naps
03-28-2016, 05:06 AM
He didn't make it to 82 games. He's not gone yet. He had one foot out the door when he was drafted as he had a reasonable chance of not fitting in the process.

By that "result of 82 game sucking" i meant they tanked shamelessly the year before to get a top pick (Oka) that they are now thinking about moving already.

IKnowHoops
03-28-2016, 05:10 AM
The issue is that we would then never have a good defense while getting a better fit with great talent might be possible. I am not saying I wouldn't want him just for Rubio because value wise he has more around the league, but it would never happen and if it did I would try and cash in on that value in another way not just keep him.

I am saying I wouldn't go for Okafor for the value it would actually take to get him though (including our pick at least to your scenario) because it doesn't fit right. You may see Duncan type potential but I just don't think he gets there (even outside of defense, rebounding, IQ and shooting range seem like a reach). I think he can be a bit better than Big Al but not a fit for our team so I don't get the point in going after him. Sure if he turns into Duncan it would suck but if the more likely scenario where he doesn't happens we may have just screwed up by putting most of our assets outside Lavine/Wiggins/Towns into one somewhat risky talent who going in we knew wasn't a great fit.

You can keep saying he will get better at defense but I don't think he ever becomes an anchor and he can't guard 4's (likely has issues with P&R as well). This won't magically change as he gets better but the IQ/size could help him when he develops for sure, more in the 1v1 scenarios and limiting other deficiencies though. Towns can't always anchor guarding 4's and we don't know for sure where Lavine/Wiggins end up on that end so having someone likely to be somewhat of a liability at the 5 surrounding them is a risk not worth taking when we could instead just keep building on what we have and surround them with talent that fits. I guess just agree to disagree here but I would be disappointed if that was our direction this off-season.

I feel ya. But saying he doesn't help with shooting I think is wrong. For a center, he's got more than enough range.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qFTynQbzz1I

valade16
03-28-2016, 08:06 AM
How many players does Philly have that are genuinely thought of as cornerstones or core pieces for their rebuild?

2-ONE-5
03-28-2016, 08:50 AM
yea we didnt have a deal in place with Boston. I dont think he should be traded and the report is mostly just accurate speculation. But if he is traded and it brings in an established all-star talent i wont complain but the thought of potentially having Ingram, Okafor, Heild (If we get LAL pick) next year has me really excited.

2-ONE-5
03-28-2016, 08:58 AM
What makes it far far worse is they have had throughout its historic franchise players such Big Dipper and Doc J and Barkley and Moses and The Answer and few others I am missing, its all good to draft the best player available as long as you have a clue on who to package(for a player of need) so it wont cause a logjam or bad fit, that's where they went wrong

its hard to build from tanking but not hard to build a competitive good young team in the process when compiling top 3 picks for years in a row like Philly, they are acting like they have The Answer the way they have drafted athletic bigs the past few years, they should have drafted Russell to compliment Noel and soon to hopefully be healthy Embiid

but I guess if you couldn't build around The Answer in his youth then they deserve to be in a D league, YMCA for that matter in this era

lol dude you know that Russell was picked before the Sixers right?

ewing
03-28-2016, 09:05 AM
How many players does Philly have that are genuinely thought of as cornerstones or core pieces for their rebuild?

I don't think they have any. Oka would be a nice place to start IMO but it appears they have ****ed that up.

ewing
03-28-2016, 09:06 AM
yea we didnt have a deal in place with Boston. I dont think he should be traded and the report is mostly just accurate speculation. But if he is traded and it brings in an established all-star talent i wont complain but the thought of potentially having Ingram, Okafor, Heild (If we get LAL pick) next year has me really excited.

I think Ingram would fit great next to Okafor. I like Heild too. that would be interesting

warfelg
03-28-2016, 09:49 AM
I'm just being pedantic, but Dante Exum played very good D at 19.

Also, for anyone that bothers to give a hint at looking into things, Okafor had a top 10 historically bad rookie year on defense. The guys that are terrible like that and manage to become even average defenders are so low anyways.

I keep thinking that a guy like Serge Ibaka or Anthony Davis would be great parings for Okafor because they are great at rotating from outside the paint and getting weakside blocks. Noel isn't that great at it, he's better at being in the paint with the rim to his back and watching everyone come at him.

I personally think Okafor will be ok as a man defender, but will never become an impact help defender in the way some think a guy of his size should.

warfelg
03-28-2016, 10:07 AM
Also there was like only a 5% chance that he made it to the end of his rookie deal in Philly anyways. With 3 centers on the roster the timeline to evaluate and decide what to do with them. Especially when one of those centers is coming up for an extension soon.

Green_Monster
03-28-2016, 10:21 AM
All respect but that is a laughable offer. Smart has zero value. Boston has been looking to Dump him for a year now. His defense is highly overrated. And he couldn't hit water with the B-Ball if he threw it off the Titanic. And Sullinger...forgetting the fact that we have zero need for him. But he also is a restricted free agent, and if we wanted him, we could just sign him.

The part I put in bold is completely false, basically to a laughable point. I honestly don't know how you believe any of that to be true. How can you be so misinformed?

Stinkyoutsider
03-28-2016, 10:28 AM
The 6ers really didn't have much of a choice at the time they drafted Okafor. People saw him as a top quality prospect who was ready to contribute from day one. It just so happened that he played the same position that Embid and Noel play.

I honestly believed that both Okafor and Noel could play together in the same lineup and succeed. Okafor would be the offensive specialist and Noel would be the defensive specialist. Noel could have developed a solid mid/long range jumper (not sure if he was working on this) to give Okafor room to work. Embid could come off the bench in his first year of being healthy.

But, as we kind of found out, Noel and Okafor don't combine well. So, there's a logjam so I can understand trading Okafor because he has the most value of the 3.

We all can say Devin Booker could have been a better selection but we didn't know that at the time. I think the 6ers should be happy this isn't pro soccer because they could be relegated to a lower league. Not saying at all that I would want this to happen to the 6ers but it would be nice to have a relegation playoff series to show that the 6ers are still trying to put a good product on the court even though us fans interpret their moves differently...

warfelg
03-28-2016, 10:52 AM
I honestly believed that both Okafor and Noel could play together in the same lineup and succeed. Okafor would be the offensive specialist and Noel would be the defensive specialist. Noel could have developed a solid mid/long range jumper (not sure if he was working on this) to give Okafor room to work. Embid could come off the bench in his first year of being healthy.


He tried and it isn't good. Noel will always be a DeAndre/Tyson Chandler type player. Great defense, a few putbacks, pick and roll game, and anything outside of that is bonus. I've said it since the start with him, yet some people want to talk about his offense like he should be putting up 20 a night.

basketballkitty
03-28-2016, 11:37 AM
Smart is an elite defender but he doesn't have an offensive game. I can understand a team not having much interest because he's more of a spark off of the bench on the defensive end guy. He'll play well on offensive here and there, but most nights it's just a handful of missed 3's. Basically, a game changer on defense, but there's just no offense to support it.

I'm not even calling him a good player at his current stage. I just think he fits well with the Celtics and their identity.



Problem with Smart is his attitude...he refuses to stop shooting, even though his Coach has told him to ease up when he is in the game. But Smart just brushes him off. Another thing is where he was drafted...# 5. No matter what he does or does not do, he and his agent will likely ask for the moon. In reality, the Celts could replace Smart with draft prospect " Gary Payton Jr " And not only do they get a much better person, they get as good a defensive player, if not a better one.

Green_Monster
03-28-2016, 11:40 AM
Problem with Smart is his attitude...he refuses to stop shooting, even though his Coach has told him to ease up when he is in the game. But Smart just brushes him off. Another thing is where he was drafted...# 5. No matter what he does or does not do, he and his agent will likely ask for the moon. In reality, the Celts could replace Smart with draft prospect " Gary Payton Jr " And not only do they get a much better person, they get as good a defensive player, if not a better one.

Once again, almost none of that is true. Do you have a personal vendetta against Marcus Smart?

basketballkitty
03-28-2016, 01:20 PM
Once again, almost none of that is true. Do you have a personal vendetta against Marcus Smart?




Other then Smart has failed Impress in two seasons now, can't facilitate an offense, has no shooting skills, and almost started a Race War while in college based on a outright Lie...Nothing. Fact is, forgetting Okafor for a moment...the Sixers IF offered wouldn't deal their own undrafted rookie PG TJ McConnell straight up for Smart. And for good reason...McConnell is better. There how's that ?

Tony_Starks
03-28-2016, 04:08 PM
I wouldn't be so hasty with Okafor. If nothing else he'll be a capable low post guy. Possibly could become at least adequate defender/ rebounder with the right guidance.

Also I wouldn't count on Noel. First chance he gets he is going escape that mockery with the quickness.

I just saw a interview from him the other day talking about how hard it's been dealing with years of losing that badly.

That's gotta take a serious toll on you, could screw up your career.

2-ONE-5
03-28-2016, 04:34 PM
newsflash: no player likes to lose.

Aust
03-28-2016, 05:18 PM
It was the same Incident cause it happened at that same time. A different Incident would mean it happened on a later date. The other guy was one who also attacked, or ran up on Okafor and started it first. Okafor reacted badly yes I agree. He could have hurt that man seriously, or himself. But it WAS the same One time Incident.

It did not happen at the same time, it happened afterward. You can have multiple incidents on the same date. He got into two separate fights.


That incident in Boston was a one time thing.

Those incidents in Boston were a one time thing.

da ThRONe
03-28-2016, 08:07 PM
You take BPA during the draft with the understanding that you may have to trade someone if there's a redundancy in skillset.

ewing
03-28-2016, 08:30 PM
i honestly think it sucks for the sixers. Oka is not a guy any team should be looking to trade right now. you can trade anyone if you get a hull but this guy ideally isn't on the block for anyone. He is 20, 7 foot, 260lbs with an elite offensive skill set. Still it almost seems like they have to do something. i honestly don't know. You can say BPA all day but it still seems the sixers have painted themselves into a corner with that philosophy.

McAllen Tx
03-29-2016, 03:37 PM
How is that Injury Prone ? That type of procedure has been done to MJ 9 times in his career. It's just usually an Off-season thing. It's nothing.

You can write it off as nothing but at the end of the season he will have missed about 25 (give or take) games due to injury.

Cause MJ had this surgery 9 times has absolutely nothing to do with Okafor. Im sure if I wanted to I can look up a player that it didnt work as well as MJ. But again it would have absolutely nothing to do with Okafor.

Im not saying Okafor is injury prone but I will say noone, as of right now, can say he definitely isnt. We'll see in the next year or 2. Not a good sign though that he's already having knee issues at 20.

Scoots
03-29-2016, 04:05 PM
You can write it off as nothing but at the end of the season he will have missed about 25 (give or take) games due to injury.

Cause MJ had this surgery 9 times has absolutely nothing to do with Okafor. Im sure if I wanted to I can look up a player that it didnt work as well as MJ. But again it would have absolutely nothing to do with Okafor.

Im not saying Okafor is injury prone but I will say noone, as of right now, can say he definitely isnt. We'll see in the next year or 2. Not a good sign though that he's already having knee issues at 20.

When teams are tanking missed games due to injury are often fictitious. Other front offices know the truth.

BallDontLie
03-29-2016, 04:13 PM
well he really did get surgery its not like we made that up.

ewing
03-29-2016, 04:14 PM
Idt the sixers should be moving Oka to make room for a guy that hasn't played in 2 years and a guy with a lower ceiling (neol). I think they should do nothing. I can see the pressure though.

BallDontLie
03-29-2016, 04:26 PM
agreed. he wont be moved just to be moved, though. I imagine if any are dealt it at the trade deadline or after next season.

McAllen Tx
03-29-2016, 05:14 PM
When teams are tanking missed games due to injury are often fictitious. Other front offices know the truth.

True, but in this case it wasn't fictitious. Okafor did have surgery and will miss 20+ games because of it.

When was Philly ever in danger of not having the worst record

Scoots
03-29-2016, 05:26 PM
True, but in this case it wasn't fictitious. Okafor did have surgery and will miss 20+ games because of it.

When was Philly ever in danger of not having the worst record
But could he have put off the surgery?

In 2012 Curry had an exploratory surgery on his ankle and missed a lot of games. He made it clear he could have continued to play with no negative effect and later said he was ready to come back but the team kept him off the court to tank. They didn't fake the surgery but the reason and the recovery were exaggerated.

McAllen Tx
03-29-2016, 06:20 PM
But could he have put off the surgery?

In 2012 Curry had an exploratory surgery on his ankle and missed a lot of games. He made it clear he could have continued to play with no negative effect and later said he was ready to come back but the team kept him off the court to tank. They didn't fake the surgery but the reason and the recovery were exaggerated.

Im not saying teams dont exaggerate injuries, especially teams that are tanking. I dont believe for a second that Nash was injured all of last season. But we cant automatically assume every injury is an exaggeration.

Philly tends to exaggerate the other way though. They covered up Holidays injury. They drafted Noel and I dont remember what crap they sold the fans but he ended up missing the whole season. Till this day he still seems to miss alot of games. They drafted Embiid after breaking his foot and he missed a whole season. Same bone breaks again and they sell the fans that he's still growing LOL. And they bought it, let's see whats the excuse next year - "It repaired too good and caused another bone to break."

I think Okafors surgery is precautionary but I wouldnt put no even money on it. Phillys medical staff is horrid. Easily the worst in every major sport.

The points I was making are you cant call Okafors injury "nothing" & not every case or outcome from surgery is the same for different players.

Scoots
03-29-2016, 06:22 PM
Im not saying teams dont exaggerate injuries, especially teams that are tanking. I dont believe for a second that Nash was injured all of last season. But we cant automatically assume every injury is an exaggeration.

Philly tends to exaggerate the other way though. They covered up Holidays injury. They drafted Noel and I dont remember what crap they sold the fans but he ended up missing the whole season. Till this day he still seems to miss alot of games. They drafted Embiid after breaking his foot and he missed a whole season. Same bone breaks again and they sell the fans that he's still growing LOL. And they bought it, let's see whats the excuse next year - "It repaired too good and caused another bone to break."

I think Okafors surgery is precautionary but I wouldnt put no even money on it. Phillys medical staff is horrid. Easily the worst in every major sport.

The points I was making are you cant call Okafors injury "nothing" & not every case or outcome from surgery is the same for different players.
That is exaggerating the same way I'm talking about.

Of course all injuries are not exaggerated. But all injuries for tanking teams are suspect.

warfelg
03-29-2016, 06:22 PM
agreed. he wont be moved just to be moved, though. I imagine if any are dealt it at the trade deadline or after next season.

I do agree on the moved to be moved. I think the hard part is, because we drafted BPA for 3 years, we put ourselves in this position to have to accelerate the evaluation part of a player and their development.

It's one of the places that we shot ourselves in the foot with BPA drafting.

warfelg
03-29-2016, 06:27 PM
That is exaggerating the same way I'm talking about.

Of course all injuries are not exaggerated. But all injuries for tanking teams are suspect.

I think it sounded worse than it was because of the timing. A slight tare in the meniscus is usually a 3-4 week injury, and if this were December it wouldn't be a big deal. But because it happened with 3 weeks left and it came out as "shut down for the season" it sounds worse.

Alayla
03-29-2016, 09:08 PM
Im not saying teams dont exaggerate injuries, especially teams that are tanking. I dont believe for a second that Nash was injured all of last season. But we cant automatically assume every injury is an exaggeration.

Philly tends to exaggerate the other way though. They covered up Holidays injury. They drafted Noel and I dont remember what crap they sold the fans but he ended up missing the whole season. Till this day he still seems to miss alot of games. They drafted Embiid after breaking his foot and he missed a whole season. Same bone breaks again and they sell the fans that he's still growing LOL. And they bought it, let's see whats the excuse next year - "It repaired too good and caused another bone to break."

I think Okafors surgery is precautionary but I wouldnt put no even money on it. Phillys medical staff is horrid. Easily the worst in every major sport.

The points I was making are you cant call Okafors injury "nothing" & not every case or outcome from surgery is the same for different players.

Nothing really was stated in regards to Noel.
Embiid did grow 2 inches that was a factual statement.
But even if both of these things went exactly as you say it still has nothing to do with Okafor.
This type of Injury is very common and I cant recall anyone's career being hampered by it.

Scoots
03-29-2016, 09:23 PM
Nothing really was stated in regards to Noel.
Embiid did grow 2 inches that was a factual statement.
But even if both of these things went exactly as you say it still has nothing to do with Okafor.
This type of Injury is very common and I cant recall anyone's career being hampered by it.

Broken bones in the feet of bigs and torn meniscus issues have both been related to chronic issues for others in the past. It's not necessarily going to happen here, but they have been ongoing issues for others.

5ass
03-29-2016, 09:35 PM
Broken bones in the feet of bigs and torn meniscus issues have both been related to chronic issues for others in the past. It's not necessarily going to happen here, but they have been ongoing issues for others.

Pretty sure Embiid had some back issues too.

Alayla
03-29-2016, 11:58 PM
Broken bones in the feet of bigs and torn meniscus issues have both been related to chronic issues for others in the past. It's not necessarily going to happen here, but they have been ongoing issues for others.

Oh no I argee with Embiid is Okafor I was referring to.

warfelg
03-30-2016, 08:06 AM
Broken bones in the feet of bigs and torn meniscus issues have both been related to chronic issues for others in the past. It's not necessarily going to happen here, but they have been ongoing issues for others.

I can say what's bothering a bunch of us Sixers fans is other guys around the league get injuries (Butler's Knee, Blake's Hand, AD's Knee and Shoulder) and people aren't running around laughing about how those injuries can be ongoing issues or anything like that. The couple posts I've seen on them were "well they'll get better and be better than ever". But with the Sixers players that get hurt, it's almost always "well it's been a degenerative issue with other players".

Scoots
03-30-2016, 08:18 AM
I can say what's bothering a bunch of us Sixers fans is other guys around the league get injuries (Butler's Knee, Blake's Hand, AD's Knee and Shoulder) and people aren't running around laughing about how those injuries can be ongoing issues or anything like that. The couple posts I've seen on them were "well they'll get better and be better than ever". But with the Sixers players that get hurt, it's almost always "well it's been a degenerative issue with other players".
I don't know of any other 1st round players who have yet to play multiple years after the draft because of injury.

warfelg
03-30-2016, 08:20 AM
I don't know of any other 1st round players who have yet to play multiple years after the draft because of injury.

I was referring to the reaction of Jahlil's injury.

BallDontLie
03-30-2016, 09:01 AM
True, but in this case it wasn't fictitious. Okafor did have surgery and will miss 20+ games because of it.

When was Philly ever in danger of not having the worst record

like around the time the Suns started tanking at first when Knight went down i was worried we could pass at least, if not more one of LAL, PHX, BKN. When Ish came in and we played like .500 ball for a minute.

BallDontLie
03-30-2016, 09:04 AM
Im not saying teams dont exaggerate injuries, especially teams that are tanking. I dont believe for a second that Nash was injured all of last season. But we cant automatically assume every injury is an exaggeration.

Philly tends to exaggerate the other way though. They covered up Holidays injury. They drafted Noel and I dont remember what crap they sold the fans but he ended up missing the whole season. Till this day he still seems to miss alot of games. They drafted Embiid after breaking his foot and he missed a whole season. Same bone breaks again and they sell the fans that he's still growing LOL. And they bought it, let's see whats the excuse next year - "It repaired too good and caused another bone to break."

I think Okafors surgery is precautionary but I wouldnt put no even money on it. Phillys medical staff is horrid. Easily the worst in every major sport.

The points I was making are you cant call Okafors injury "nothing" & not every case or outcome from surgery is the same for different players.

how is our med staff the worst in sports? Noel hasnt missed any time due to his ACL injury, just little stuff here and there hes missed time for which is normal for most players. Everyone else has been pretty healthy on a consistent basis. No set backs for Hollis Thompson or Covington after they both came back this year, etc.

warfelg
03-30-2016, 09:09 AM
how is our med staff the worst in sports? Noel hasnt missed any time due to his ACL injury, just little stuff here and there hes missed time for which is normal for most players. Everyone else has been pretty healthy on a consistent basis. No set backs for Hollis Thompson or Covington after they both came back this year, etc.

I think the worst thing that could be said about them is they are overly cautious about guys coming back from serious injuries (Noel, Embiid, Wroten, Marshall, MCW). But when it comes to normal in season bumps and bruises, I feel as though we get off pretty easy with only one or two games.

JOSKOMANG4
03-30-2016, 11:04 AM
Okafur & 2016 pick to hawks for jeff teague & knicks pick.

Hawks lineup: Okafur/milsap/1st overall pick:simmons)/korver/shroeder

sixers lineup: Embiid/noel/saric/top 5 pick: Buddy hield/teague.

Scoots
03-30-2016, 11:09 AM
I think the worst thing that could be said about them is they are overly cautious about guys coming back from serious injuries (Noel, Embiid, Wroten, Marshall, MCW). But when it comes to normal in season bumps and bruises, I feel as though we get off pretty easy with only one or two games.

It's really fairly simple ... the Sixers staff is part of the process and the process doesn't value wins as much as the future health of the players, so dragging out the recovery process until the players are 100% is an easy call to make. It does not mean the Sixers training staff is sub-par at all.

warfelg
03-30-2016, 11:23 AM
It's really fairly simple ... the Sixers staff is part of the process and the process doesn't value wins as much as the future health of the players, so dragging out the recovery process until the players are 100% is an easy call to make. It does not mean the Sixers training staff is sub-par at all.

I don't think they are dragging it out but as they've said setting the guy up for a long career. Maybe I'm drinking to kool aid on that one, but Noel might be the only one you can feel they really dragged it out.

But your right on the last point. Caution with players is being used interchangeably with sub-par. And it's a pet peeve of mine when people do things like that.

And some of these what were they supposed to do? Let Okafor play with a torn meniscus or let Embiid play with a broken bone? That's why I don't get people saying we're holding them out for tank reasons. I mean, they were hurt, they needed surgery, they got it.

Synyster89
03-30-2016, 12:51 PM
Okafur & 2016 pick to hawks for jeff teague & knicks pick.

Hawks lineup: Okafur/milsap/1st overall pick:simmons)/korver/shroeder

sixers lineup: Embiid/noel/saric/top 5 pick: Buddy hield/teague.

So in your scenario:

76ers get: Jeff Teague and Buddy Hield

Hawks get: Jahlil Okafor and Ben Simmons

...umm, why would the Sixers ever do this? We would be giving up the two players with the highest upside in the deal. :confused:

BallDontLie
03-30-2016, 01:31 PM
I still dont want to trade the man but if we can package him in a deal for Butler im all for it.

HeartOfStarks
03-30-2016, 01:39 PM
So in your scenario:

76ers get: Jeff Teague and Buddy Hield

Hawks get: Jahlil Okafor and Ben Simmons

...umm, why would the Sixers ever do this? We would be giving up the two players with the highest upside in the deal. :confused:

I also don't know what pick he's talking about. The Raps have our pick this year with Denver having right to swap. Where do the Hawks and Knicks pick come into play??

valade16
03-30-2016, 01:39 PM
So in your scenario:

76ers get: Jeff Teague and Buddy Hield

Hawks get: Jahlil Okafor and Ben Simmons

...umm, why would the Sixers ever do this? We would be giving up the two players with the highest upside in the deal. :confused:

Yeah I'm not sure I'd trade either Okafor or Simmons for Teague + Hield, let alone both.

D-Leethal
03-30-2016, 07:00 PM
Okafor for Russell

Aust
03-30-2016, 09:20 PM
Okafor for Russell

Please god no

Alayla
03-30-2016, 09:43 PM
Please god no

Pretty much my feelings in a nutshell only on the otherside.
Okafor for Russell would be way overpaying for Russell imo.

Aust
03-31-2016, 12:18 AM
Pretty much my feelings in a nutshell only on the otherside.
Okafor for Russell would be way overpaying for Russell imo.

We both agree it's an overpay for the other side. I bet many fans feel this way.

More-Than-Most
03-31-2016, 12:31 AM
We both agree it's an overpay for the other side. I bet many fans feel this way.

Most sixers fans will scream NOOOOOO and most laker fans will scream noo... Russ has much more potential but OKA has shown more so far... Lakers fans were on board for OKA until they got Russ and sixer fans were against OKA until they got him... Funny how that works : )

Aust
03-31-2016, 12:34 AM
Most sixers fans will scream NOOOOOO and most laker fans will scream noo... Russ has much more potential but OKA has shown more so far... Lakers fans were on board for OKA until they got Russ and sixer fans were against OKA until they got him... Funny how that works : )

I wanted him SO freaking badly(almost as bad as KAT) and then when we drafted Russell I prayed we would make a trade with you.

More-Than-Most
03-31-2016, 02:47 AM
I wanted him SO freaking badly(almost as bad as KAT) and then when we drafted Russell I prayed we would make a trade with you.

Same boat as you man... I want russ so bad and want to trade OKA for him even now... I think Russ has more potential than anyone right now where is OKA is more of the sure thing... I get baked when I say Id take him over anyone in the redraft... Id take Towns/Russ 1 and 2 with oka 3 and Porz 4 :Shrug:

McAllen Tx
03-31-2016, 06:15 AM
I don't think they are dragging it out but as they've said setting the guy up for a long career. Maybe I'm drinking to kool aid on that one, but Noel might be the only one you can feel they really dragged it out.

But your right on the last point. Caution with players is being used interchangeably with sub-par. And it's a pet peeve of mine when people do things like that.

And some of these what were they supposed to do? Let Okafor play with a torn meniscus or let Embiid play with a broken bone? That's why I don't get people saying we're holding them out for tank reasons. I mean, they were hurt, they needed surgery, they got it.

Again, I agree that Oka having surgery is most likely precautionary then him being injury prone. In OP I was simply saying to a poster who said "Oka wasn't injury prone" that he was out for the season cause of minor knee surgery. That was it, no more then that.

Some Philly fan took it to a whole new level telling me how it was "nothing" and MJ had the surgery 9 times.

I looked up a few articles about NBA players and meniscus tears and they pretty much say the same thing - "most" players come back w/o a problem, didnt say "all".

When Drs have to cut open a part in your body to repair something I wouldnt call it "nothing".

Then here you made my point, you said Oka had a meniscus tear and he needed surgery and he got it So bottom line is Oka will have missed 25 games this season due to injury. Thats the only point I was trying to make in my OP.

I hope and Im positive he is in the majority and it wont be a lingering factor going forward. I am concerned for him though that he's already having these issues at 20.

valade16
03-31-2016, 09:05 AM
Same boat as you man... I want russ so bad and want to trade OKA for him even now... I think Russ has more potential than anyone right now where is OKA is more of the sure thing... I get baked when I say Id take him over anyone in the redraft... Id take Towns/Russ 1 and 2 with oka 3 and Porz 4 :Shrug:

Is there a specific reason you have Russell and Okafor ahead of Porzingis? I just can't fathom that considering Porzingis is so young and was supposed to take years to develop and he's already playing better than Russ and Okafor.

BallDontLie
03-31-2016, 09:42 AM
Wouldnt really say Porz was playing any better than Okafor was, you could argue either but they were basically even but in 2 polar opposite situations but both were much better than Russ. He just overrates Russ bcuz he refuses to be wrong about him and Okafor after everything he said in the off-season last year. To put Towns and russ in the same breath is just laughable right now.

HeartOfStarks
03-31-2016, 10:15 AM
Wouldnt really say Porz was playing any better than Okafor was, you could argue either but they were basically even but in 2 polar opposite situations but both were much better than Russ. He just overrates Russ bcuz he refuses to be wrong about him and Okafor after everything he said in the off-season last year. To put Towns and russ in the same breath is just laughable right now.

On the defensive end I'd definitely say KP is far ahead of Okafor, his impact (& future projected impact) on that side of the court is undeniable.

Because KP is actually a 2 way player I definitely put him ahead of Okafor (obvi I'm a Knick fan as well but...) still think that's sound reasoning.

A redraft as it stands right now IMO would look something like Towns-KP-Booker if anything. Okafor 4th. Just my opinion based on what I've seen this year. We'll see how it plays out 3-4 years down the road.

HeartOfStarks
03-31-2016, 10:18 AM
Not to mention Okafor and Russell are the standouts for two biggest off the court boneheads so far from this draft as well. Always a red flag to me

BallDontLie
03-31-2016, 10:27 AM
On the defensive end I'd definitely say KP is far ahead of Okafor, his impact (& future projected impact) on that side of the court is undeniable.

Because KP is actually a 2 way player I definitely put him ahead of Okafor (obvi I'm a Knick fan as well but...) still think that's sound reasoning.

A redraft as it stands right now IMO would look something like Towns-KP-Booker if anything. Okafor 4th. Just my opinion based on what I've seen this year. We'll see how it plays out 3-4 years down the road.

I mean KP had a lot more help on the defensive end and clearly was the better shot blocker (which he should be) but he cant really guard Cetners (Okafor bullied him every time when we played) and Oak did a good job with his 1v1 paint D but it was his rotations and help D that were bad, he also was good with boxing out his man. I wouldnt argue who was better bcuz both have a case depending on how you want to look at everything and you wouldnt be wrong either way. As for the off court stuff Okafor seemed to bounce back from all of that after a week or 2 and has been a model citizen since as far as we know. Im still sickened by the street fights though but its in the past.

HeartOfStarks
03-31-2016, 10:36 AM
I mean KP had a lot more help on the defensive end and clearly was the better shot blocker (which he should be) but he cant really guard Cetners (Okafor bullied him every time when we played) and Oak did a good job with his 1v1 paint D but it was his rotations and help D that were bad, he also was good with boxing out his man. I wouldnt argue who was better bcuz both have a case depending on how you want to look at everything and you wouldnt be wrong either way. As for the off court stuff Okafor seemed to bounce back from all of that after a week or 2 and has been a model citizen since as far as we know. Im still sickened by the street fights though but its in the past.

On the offcourt stuff I hear you, hopefully that was more of a onetime thing and doesn't become some sort of pattern. He may very well be totally fine moving forward and nothing negatively newsworthy ever happens with him. And I hope that's the case, cause he is obviously super talented.

On the D thing though, just to be clear, KP not being able to guard big centers (and believe me this is actually a huge point of discussion/contention internally in the Knicks forum), in my eyes isn't such a big thing. Technically right now KP isn't actually a center. He's a 4. And yes he has a lot more help with Lopez next to him (although isn't Noel supposedly a great defender? Serious question I just don't see many Sixer games), but all that said I still think there's a consensus among most NBA fans, analysts and execs that Porzingis is already a pretty damn good defender, and Okafor has historically struggled on that end. That was my only point.

Looking forward to seeing what the 6ers do this offseason, I like Saric and I think if you guys can figure out the big man rotation, draft a solid guard and maybe even sign a solid FA guard or 2, you'll be in a sweet spot. I'm not so much of a hater of Hinkie's moves as much as others I don't think, I'm curious to see how the 6ers play out over the next few years...

BallDontLie
03-31-2016, 12:43 PM
On the offcourt stuff I hear you, hopefully that was more of a onetime thing and doesn't become some sort of pattern. He may very well be totally fine moving forward and nothing negatively newsworthy ever happens with him. And I hope that's the case, cause he is obviously super talented.

On the D thing though, just to be clear, KP not being able to guard big centers (and believe me this is actually a huge point of discussion/contention internally in the Knicks forum), in my eyes isn't such a big thing. Technically right now KP isn't actually a center. He's a 4. And yes he has a lot more help with Lopez next to him (although isn't Noel supposedly a great defender? Serious question I just don't see many Sixer games), but all that said I still think there's a consensus among most NBA fans, analysts and execs that Porzingis is already a pretty damn good defender, and Okafor has historically struggled on that end. That was my only point.

Looking forward to seeing what the 6ers do this offseason, I like Saric and I think if you guys can figure out the big man rotation, draft a solid guard and maybe even sign a solid FA guard or 2, you'll be in a sweet spot. I'm not so much of a hater of Hinkie's moves as much as others I don't think, I'm curious to see how the 6ers play out over the next few years...

Noels a solid defensive player but the problem was Okafor isnt ready to guard 4's yet and Noel is capable but the problem was it took Noel away from the basket where he wasnt contesting or blocking as many shots, we also had more defensive oriented players last year compared to offensive oriented this year who cant stop a nosebleed on the perimeter so it made Okafor look even worse and thats why the advanced stats look extra bad, at least to me.. We experimented a bunch with Noel and Okafor between switching roles, coming off the bench etc, and they started to click a little bit right before Okafor went down so it gave some hope moving forward even with a small sample size.

As for KP i agree hes not a center yet but with his height hes prob going to have to be in a year or two to keep a some wear off those knees, im sure hell gain another 20ish lbs over the next 2 years like Noel has too (give or take).

Alayla
03-31-2016, 08:59 PM
On the offcourt stuff I hear you, hopefully that was more of a onetime thing and doesn't become some sort of pattern. He may very well be totally fine moving forward and nothing negatively newsworthy ever happens with him. And I hope that's the case, cause he is obviously super talented.

On the D thing though, just to be clear, KP not being able to guard big centers (and believe me this is actually a huge point of discussion/contention internally in the Knicks forum), in my eyes isn't such a big thing. Technically right now KP isn't actually a center. He's a 4. And yes he has a lot more help with Lopez next to him (although isn't Noel supposedly a great defender? Serious question I just don't see many Sixer games), but all that said I still think there's a consensus among most NBA fans, analysts and execs that Porzingis is already a pretty damn good defender, and Okafor has historically struggled on that end. That was my only point.

Looking forward to seeing what the 6ers do this offseason, I like Saric and I think if you guys can figure out the big man rotation, draft a solid guard and maybe even sign a solid FA guard or 2, you'll be in a sweet spot. I'm not so much of a hater of Hinkie's moves as much as others I don't think, I'm curious to see how the 6ers play out over the next few years...

Hes an All NBA level defender I wish it was something that got discussed more but its brushed off since everyone hates his offensive game.

More-Than-Most
03-31-2016, 09:36 PM
Is there a specific reason you have Russell and Okafor ahead of Porzingis? I just can't fathom that considering Porzingis is so young and was supposed to take years to develop and he's already playing better than Russ and Okafor.

He actually is on a much better team and actually has help unlike Oka and somewhat Russ... Porz outside of like a 2 week span was crap this year :shrug:

He would fit on our team better and he has more upside than OKa but like Russ has a higher risk of being a bust... Also he really needs some frame and meat because he gets dominated inside by people just as big or bigger

HeartOfStarks
03-31-2016, 11:05 PM
He actually is on a much better team and actually has help unlike Oka and somewhat Russ... Porz outside of like a 2 week span was crap this year :shrug:

He would fit on our team better and he has more upside than OKa but like Russ has a higher risk of being a bust... Also he really needs some frame and meat because he gets dominated inside by people just as big or bigger

I watch every single Knick game in full and I'm sorry but you saying he was crap outside of a 2 week span is utter BS. I'm guessing you are WAY less familiar with the Knicks than I am and I consider myself an objective critic.

The Knicks stunk this year (as usual), we have the worst backcourt in the league, and KP was an absolute BEAST for a 20 year old rookie. Again, I've watched every single game in full - he hit a wall for a relatively short time and was underwhelming, but for the VAST majority of the year he's shown a ton of potential on BOTH ends of the floor, his advanced stats (especially compared to other rookies) are impressive, his PPG & Rejection numbers are impressive, he's a WAY better rebounder than anyone thought he'd be, so yeah, in conclusion... Crap outside of two weeks? No you're just wrong sorry.

Pretty sure consensus around the league is that statement is complete BS as well.

BallDontLie
04-01-2016, 08:50 AM
Hes an All NBA level defender I wish it was something that got discussed more but its brushed off since everyone hates his offensive game.

i cant go that far. He has the potential but hes not close to that level yet.

BallDontLie
04-01-2016, 08:52 AM
I watch every single Knick game in full and I'm sorry but you saying he was crap outside of a 2 week span is utter BS. I'm guessing you are WAY less familiar with the Knicks than I am and I consider myself an objective critic.

The Knicks stunk this year (as usual), we have the worst backcourt in the league, and KP was an absolute BEAST for a 20 year old rookie. Again, I've watched every single game in full - he hit a wall for a relatively short time and was underwhelming, but for the VAST majority of the year he's shown a ton of potential on BOTH ends of the floor, his advanced stats (especially compared to other rookies) are impressive, his PPG & Rejection numbers are impressive, he's a WAY better rebounder than anyone thought he'd be, so yeah, in conclusion... Crap outside of two weeks? No you're just wrong sorry.

Pretty sure consensus around the league is that statement is complete BS as well.

yea he likes to get extreme with his views to fit his own agenda. I do think Porz got a little overrated in the first half of the season but there is no arguing hes had nothing more than a solid rookie season so far and not just a 2 week hot streak, thats ridiculous to suggest

Alayla
04-01-2016, 09:06 AM
i cant go that far. He has the potential but hes not close to that level yet.

A lot of defensive stats disagree with you as well as a lot of people around the league.
People forget this guy was in the DPOY conversation as a rookie.
All that being said though that still has very little to do with Okafor's defense.

HeartOfStarks
04-01-2016, 09:31 AM
yea he likes to get extreme with his views to fit his own agenda. I do think Porz got a little overrated in the first half of the season but there is no arguing hes had nothing more than a solid rookie season so far and not just a 2 week hot streak, thats ridiculous to suggest

No doubt, a lot of Knicks fans like to do the same thing, not a huge deal but just like to point out BS where it bubbles up

KP was definitely overhyped for that beginning stretch when he was dunking on dudes' heads (before NBA adjusted to that little highlight trick), but overall he's just a guy that already does a lot of things well - very multidimensional/dynamic player IMO.

Okafor is a monster in the post - I think in the right situation he can do very well. And the right situation may still be Philly.

Here's a question for you - do you think Saric can start at the 3 or do you project him more as a 4?

BallDontLie
04-01-2016, 10:23 AM
A lot of defensive stats disagree with you as well as a lot of people around the league.
People forget this guy was in the DPOY conversation as a rookie.
All that being said though that still has very little to do with Okafor's defense.

he wasnt in the DPOY convo last year, he got one 3rd place vote. Impact and eye test matter more than advanced stats, that will never change. He's not considered at that level by his peers or even most fans, he has all the talent in the world on that end to get there but in no way is he there right now. I hope we see it as early as next year when there will be much better all around talent beside him.

BallDontLie
04-01-2016, 10:25 AM
No doubt, a lot of Knicks fans like to do the same thing, not a huge deal but just like to point out BS where it bubbles up

KP was definitely overhyped for that beginning stretch when he was dunking on dudes' heads (before NBA adjusted to that little highlight trick), but overall he's just a guy that already does a lot of things well - very multidimensional/dynamic player IMO.

Okafor is a monster in the post - I think in the right situation he can do very well. And the right situation may still be Philly.

Here's a question for you - do you think Saric can start at the 3 or do you project him more as a 4?

i think he's a 4, doesnt seem like he can defend the wing at all but he will see some time at the 3 for matchup purposes i imagine. Im not the biggest Saric fan overall but still intrigued by him. Wont be shocked if hes used in a package to land a star type player though

Alayla
04-01-2016, 07:50 PM
he wasnt in the DPOY convo last year, he got one 3rd place vote. Impact and eye test matter more than advanced stats, that will never change. He's not considered at that level by his peers or even most fans, he has all the talent in the world on that end to get there but in no way is he there right now. I hope we see it as early as next year when there will be much better all around talent beside him.

A rookie on an awful team getting a 3rd place vote is massive.
His impact is VERY noticeable so I'm not sure where your going there.
As for the eyetest that's when subjectivity gets involved so its not even worthy of comment but from MY eyes I'm seeing exactly what the stats are showing an elite Defender does he have some weaknesses? sure but the overall package of his defense is exceptionally strong.

FlashBolt
04-01-2016, 09:01 PM
Wth is wrong with the Sixers.. are they just planning on collecting draft picks and then trading the ones that aren't going as planned? Maybe they like Embiid better? This tanking thing is a total joke.. time for Silver to step up.

Alayla
04-01-2016, 10:21 PM
Wth is wrong with the Sixers.. are they just planning on collecting draft picks and then trading the ones that aren't going as planned? Maybe they like Embiid better? This tanking thing is a total joke.. time for Silver to step up.

the idea was never to win with all the rookies/youngins it was to collect the assets needed to trade for a star when one is available. Expect Philly to make a push at names like Jimmy Bulter or (unfourately imo) Blake Griffin in the off season using okafor as a trade chip and yes they are high on Embiid btw.

Scoots
04-02-2016, 12:06 AM
Okafor would have actually had a better season if Ish Smith had joined the team in the offseason. It's really hard to play great D as a slow footed big when you are not getting much help from the guards.

I think Okafor is still being underrated.

It all comes down to Embiid's health ... if he's not 100% then Okafor is going nowhere.

5ass
04-02-2016, 12:28 AM
the idea was never to win with all the rookies/youngins it was to collect the assets needed to trade for a star when one is available. Expect Philly to make a push at names like Jimmy Bulter or (unfourately imo) Blake Griffin in the off season using okafor as a trade chip and yes they are high on Embiid btw.

Is that how sixers fans have always seen it?

FlashBolt
04-02-2016, 12:31 AM
the idea was never to win with all the rookies/youngins it was to collect the assets needed to trade for a star when one is available. Expect Philly to make a push at names like Jimmy Bulter or (unfourately imo) Blake Griffin in the off season using okafor as a trade chip and yes they are high on Embiid btw.

That's just pathetic... NBA should get to the bottom of this. There is literally nothing wrong with Okafor and next you know, Sixers are going to end up with Noel, Embiid, Simmons, and Okafor. With all their cap space available as well, they are practically spending nothing.

warfelg
04-02-2016, 08:48 AM
Is that how sixers fans have always seen it?

Frankly and the short answer: yes.

The longer answer:
Our FO, coaches, and owners have actually been very honest with us as to what's going on. It doesn't get play in the national media because it doesn't jive with the story they've been telling.

At the very beginning (I don't remember if was the into press conference or post draft) Hinkie said that there are three ways to acquire a superstar:
1) To draft one. This was the easiest way because there's no one else to have to work with or counter.
2) Trade for one. This one is harder because not only does one have to be available to trade for but you have to have the assets to make it work and more than other teams.
3) Sign one in FA. The rarest of all. Need cap space, good players, and a player come free. Basically cross off the list.

So on the first one. We've been in position to draft superstars. One potential guy for that has been hurt (Embiid) and the other just finished his rookie year. We'll be in a place to draft one this year. And before giving the Khawi/Lillard/George/Curry excuse, look into NBA history at how rare it is for a superstar to NOT be a top 3-5 pick. It's extremely rare.

The next one. We were very lacking in assets when Hinkie got here. We traded a first in the failed Bynum trade. We traded a first to get Arnet Moultrie. Some of the players on the team at that time included Jrue Holiday, Evan Turner, Lavoy Allen, Spencer Hawes, Kwame Brown (yea...), Thad Young. Now if you were trading a superstar would you want that in a package and looking like you wouldn't get any picks? Hell naw.

And on the last one, our cap was maxed out. So we were limited in who we could sign.

The FO has always been open when it comes to injuries about where players are recovering and when surgeries were successful. And one thing they have said through Noel, Wrotens, Embiids, and now Okafors recovery has been the same: this is about the long term health of the plays, not getting on the court as fast as possible.

So anyways. The plan has always to be in position to acquire a superstar in one of those three ways.

5ass
04-02-2016, 01:29 PM
Frankly and the short answer: yes.

The longer answer:
Our FO, coaches, and owners have actually been very honest with us as to what's going on. It doesn't get play in the national media because it doesn't jive with the story they've been telling.

At the very beginning (I don't remember if was the into press conference or post draft) Hinkie said that there are three ways to acquire a superstar:
1) To draft one. This was the easiest way because there's no one else to have to work with or counter.
2) Trade for one. This one is harder because not only does one have to be available to trade for but you have to have the assets to make it work and more than other teams.
3) Sign one in FA. The rarest of all. Need cap space, good players, and a player come free. Basically cross off the list.

So on the first one. We've been in position to draft superstars. One potential guy for that has been hurt (Embiid) and the other just finished his rookie year. We'll be in a place to draft one this year. And before giving the Khawi/Lillard/George/Curry excuse, look into NBA history at how rare it is for a superstar to NOT be a top 3-5 pick. It's extremely rare.

The next one. We were very lacking in assets when Hinkie got here. We traded a first in the failed Bynum trade. We traded a first to get Arnet Moultrie. Some of the players on the team at that time included Jrue Holiday, Evan Turner, Lavoy Allen, Spencer Hawes, Kwame Brown (yea...), Thad Young. Now if you were trading a superstar would you want that in a package and looking like you wouldn't get any picks? Hell naw.

And on the last one, our cap was maxed out. So we were limited in who we could sign.

The FO has always been open when it comes to injuries about where players are recovering and when surgeries were successful. And one thing they have said through Noel, Wrotens, Embiids, and now Okafors recovery has been the same: this is about the long term health of the plays, not getting on the court as fast as possible.

So anyways. The plan has always to be in position to acquire a superstar in one of those three ways.

LOL you know that's not true. Sixers fans claiming Okafor and Noel are going to make a dominant front court in tge offseason. Or that Okafor was drafted for insurance for embiid. Or that saric is going to come over and join a great front court rotation. The short answer is really no, but Sixers fans will never admit it. That is why I always told Sixers fans not to get attached to their players. I said that 3 years ago when every Sixers fan here was telling me how wrong I am. And no hankie would never ever make it clear he's just drafting players as trade chips. It is not in his interest. How is he supposed to market his players if he admits it?

warfelg
04-02-2016, 01:36 PM
LOL you know that's not true. Sixers fans claiming Okafor and Noel are going to make a dominant front court in tge offseason. Or that Okafor was drafted for insurance for embiid. Or that saric is going to come over and join a great front court rotation. The short answer is really no, but Sixers fans will never admit it. That is why I always told Sixers fans not to get attached to their players. I said that 3 years ago when every Sixers fan here was telling me how wrong I am. And no hankie would never ever make it clear he's just drafting players as trade chips. It is not in his interest. How is he supposed to market his players if he admits it?

You do realize it was about a small percent of fans that said insurance. Or Noel/Okafor was a long term solution.

It was always about acquiring a superstar via one of the three ways I listed. And given that you didn't really respond to what I stated about it, I'm not going to bother to go much further with it.

5ass
04-02-2016, 02:16 PM
You do realize it was about a small percent of fans that said insurance. Or Noel/Okafor was a long term solution.

It was always about acquiring a superstar via one of the three ways I listed. And given that you didn't really respond to what I stated about it, I'm not going to bother to go much further with it.

Not a small percentage at all. A lot of fans were claiming MCW and KJ were going to develop into something special. And every once in a while you have sixes fans throwing out their line up in 2017-2018 and saying OMG saric, noel, okafor. embiid. I could go on and on about that. Look you can stay in denial if you want, but sixers fans every year claim they're getting that superstar with their top pick. They're so convinced that the pick will be a dominant player. That is why they accept being this damn terrible. Not until recently did the trade ideas start to pop up when some finally realised hinkie isn't really trying to build a team. After drafting Okafor it clicked for some of you guys, but do not try to convince me that has been the logic all along. I argued with sixers fans for days a couple of years ago trying to get them to see my perspective, and I'm sure some still remember it.

warfelg
04-02-2016, 02:50 PM
So let me get this right. VCBaller said it was to be in place to make a move when needed.

You ask if that's the way we've always seen it.

I say yes because there are three ways to acquire a superstar (easiest to hardest): draft, trade, sign. The process has been about being in position to get a superstar any one of those three ways.

Then you proceed to tell me I'm wrong because some fans have gotten excited about players? You realize there's like 10 active posters on PSD and a bunch of idiots that like anything shiney and new. That's such a small sliver of actual Sixers fans.

5ass
04-02-2016, 03:42 PM
So let me get this right. VCBaller said it was to be in place to make a move when needed.

You ask if that's the way we've always seen it.

I say yes because there are three ways to acquire a superstar (easiest to hardest): draft, trade, sign. The process has been about being in position to get a superstar any one of those three ways.

Then you proceed to tell me I'm wrong because some fans have gotten excited about players? You realize there's like 10 active posters on PSD and a bunch of idiots that like anything shiney and new. That's such a small sliver of actual Sixers fans.

No what he said is that the idea was never to win with these guys and that they have always been merely trade assets. Also if hinkie's plan was always to make a big trade, why did he destroy his relationship with other GMs and agents to where they had to hire Colengelo?

warfelg
04-02-2016, 03:48 PM
He said the plan was to never win with ALL the rookies/young guys. Reading comprehension is important.

5ass
04-02-2016, 04:19 PM
He said the plan was to never win with ALL the rookies/young guys. Reading comprehension is important.

Lol nice try. Try reading the whole post first. Big part of reading comprehension is to first read.

basketballkitty
04-02-2016, 04:30 PM
Hinkie has acquired a lot of good assets since he has arrived. In fact, some of our younger players during this last trade deadline were among the most wanted players by other teams. This according to Yahoos adrian wojnarowski.
He wrote that several teams wanted not only Covington and Hollis Thompson, but our undrafted rookie PG Mcconnell. Jerami Grant might be the most under the radar young player in the league. His ability to draw fouls is pretty amazing considering he only attempts 7 shots a game. So the likes of Noel, Okafor, and Saric & Embiid not withstanding, the Sixers and Hinkie have done a very good job at acquiring what the first step needed...which is very good young tradeable assets. Next is to turn some of those assets and picks into a couple of good young Star players.

Alayla
04-02-2016, 05:04 PM
the idea was never to win with all the rookies/youngins it was to collect the assets needed to trade for a star when one is available. Expect Philly to make a push at names like Jimmy Bulter or (unfourately imo) Blake Griffin in the off season using okafor as a trade chip and yes they are high on Embiid btw.

.

Alayla
04-02-2016, 05:08 PM
Lol nice try. Try reading the whole post first. Big part of reading comprehension is to first read.

I would rather you not misrepresent me it was blindingly obvious what I was saying.
As warfleg said there are 3 ways to get a star player.
Trading for one was always the most likely situation for us people need to actually consider just how many assets we have amassed in such a short time.

Alayla
04-02-2016, 05:10 PM
Okafor would have actually had a better season if Ish Smith had joined the team in the offseason. It's really hard to play great D as a slow footed big when you are not getting much help from the guards.

I think Okafor is still being underrated.

It all comes down to Embiid's health ... if he's not 100% then Okafor is going nowhere.

All down to who you talking to ive seen him over and underrated massively so its hard to say.

5ass
04-02-2016, 05:15 PM
.

LOL its right there after that sentence. You said the idea was always to collect assets for a star.

Alayla
04-02-2016, 05:20 PM
Not a small percentage at all. A lot of fans were claiming MCW and KJ were going to develop into something special. And every once in a while you have sixes fans throwing out their line up in 2017-2018 and saying OMG saric, noel, okafor. embiid. I could go on and on about that. Look you can stay in denial if you want, but sixers fans every year claim they're getting that superstar with their top pick. They're so convinced that the pick will be a dominant player. That is why they accept being this damn terrible. Not until recently did the trade ideas start to pop up when some finally realised hinkie isn't really trying to build a team. After drafting Okafor it clicked for some of you guys, but do not try to convince me that has been the logic all along. I argued with sixers fans for days a couple of years ago trying to get them to see my perspective, and I'm sure some still remember it.

MCW was overrated as fk I wont argue with you there. I never liked him as a long term soutltion and Hinkie didn't as well apparently.
I have never seen even one sixers fan get pumped up about having 4 frontcourt players ever since Okafor was drafted the conversation has always been ok now who gets moved.
Its natural to be excited about the draft that's one of the 3 ways to gain a star as warfleg recently pointed out.

That 4th statement is flat out wrong Hinkie said from the beginning what he was planning on doing and any educated fan would know the plan was never to trot out with the players we have now going forward. He outright stated when he was hired his goal was to find a superstar by any means.

Your arguments with sixers fans has always been down to perspective you bash us because your convinced we don't understand what's going on we fully understand it we just have no issues with it. The people getting attached to players are a very small minority and I have been saying from the beginning all of these kids are assets there are some I would strongly prefer to keep such as Noel and I was miffed about the KJ move. But at the end of the day its always been maxiumizing assets not simply building through the draft that was just an important step toward getting the assets in the first place.
If we happened to get a superstar doing it that would have been a bonus its fans of OTHER teams who think we are trying to tank endlessly until we find a generational talent.

5ass
04-02-2016, 05:30 PM
.

LOL I'll get into this later but did you guys not justify the whole tanking process by saying it's in the purpose of drafting that generational talent? I mean the purpose was to get that number 1 pick, no? Otherwise they really didn't need to be all that bad, did they? I wish I cared enough to look up the old threads... to show you how you justified the whole tanking process last year. And how different it is today.

Chronz
04-02-2016, 06:14 PM
MCW was overrated as fk I wont argue with you there. I never liked him as a long term soutltion and Hinkie didn't as well apparently.
I have never seen even one sixers fan get pumped up about having 4 frontcourt players ever since Okafor was drafted the conversation has always been ok now who gets moved.
Its natural to be excited about the draft that's one of the 3 ways to gain a star as warfleg recently pointed out.

That 4th statement is flat out wrong Hinkie said from the beginning what he was planning on doing and any educated fan would know the plan was never to trot out with the players we have now going forward. He outright stated when he was hired his goal was to find a superstar by any means.

Your arguments with sixers fans has always been down to perspective you bash us because your convinced we don't understand what's going on we fully understand it we just have no issues with it. The people getting attached to players are a very small minority and I have been saying from the beginning all of these kids are assets there are some I would strongly prefer to keep such as Noel and I was miffed about the KJ move. But at the end of the day its always been maxiumizing assets not simply building through the draft that was just an important step toward getting the assets in the first place.
If we happened to get a superstar doing it that would have been a bonus its fans of OTHER teams who think we are trying to tank endlessly until we find a generational talent.

Kj wanted to get dealt. Why the anger?

warfelg
04-02-2016, 06:24 PM
Kj wanted to get dealt. Why the anger?

I'm miffed as well from the way the situation went down. It's not that he wanted to get dealt, as much as he wanted more playing time and his mother non-stopped *****ed about how her son deserved to be a starter (lol) on a playoff team (even more lol). So Hinkie dealt him to a team that uses him to foul 5 times in :30.

Bostonjorge
04-02-2016, 06:34 PM
Do sixers fans and management think Embiid can carry a offense?

Alayla
04-02-2016, 06:37 PM
LOL I'll get into this later but did you guys not justify the whole tanking process by saying it's in the purpose of drafting that generational talent? I mean the purpose was to get that number 1 pick, no? Otherwise they really didn't need to be all that bad, did they? I wish I cared enough to look up the old threads... to show you how you justified the whole tanking process last year. And how different it is today.

No never once at any time did I say that would it be ideal? Sure but that was not strictly speaking the goal.
The goal was to bottom out and collect assets and find a superstar trades draft FA etc and build around that star.
No one with a head on there shoulders ever thought we where going to roll into a season with 12 rookies or sophmores and start winning. If a player we draft does not project to be a superstar they will be moved in a deal that raises our chances at getting one in the short or the long term.
Okafor is unlikely to be that guy but has high value to many teams with a very high possibility of getting us that guy.
No ones views on the process have changed or at least not mine at any point this was always about getting a star by any means and building around that guy.
As for why we needed to bottom out to do that? We had no assets in the first place our most valuable asset was Jrue Holiday and we maximized his value.

Alayla
04-02-2016, 06:39 PM
Do sixers fans and management think Embiid can carry a offense?

Anything with Embiid remains to be seen most sixers fans are just praying he sees the court right now.

McAllen Tx
04-02-2016, 11:06 PM
how is our med staff the worst in sports? Noel hasnt missed any time due to his ACL injury, just little stuff here and there hes missed time for which is normal for most players. Everyone else has been pretty healthy on a consistent basis. No set backs for Hollis Thompson or Covington after they both came back this year, etc.

Im assuming Phillys med staff do extensive medical exams on potential draftees. Im also assuming the FO puts their medicals staff exams as the most important criteria before drafting a player. And you guys drafted Embiid #3.

I graduated from HS 24 years ago, I remember very little from Health class but I do remember that girls stop growing at 17/18 & boys stop growing at 21 for the most part.

Your med staff had to give the OK to draft Embiid, an 18 yr old with a broken foot that needs a whole year to recover, but how? Did they not know that he can still potentially grow? Or did they feel comfortable cause surely they have alot of experience (with positive results) fixing still growing kids feet to play in the NBA?

Also, do they not know that Embiids job will require that he runs sprints at full speed, jump, land, plant, cut all on a bone probably as thick as a pencil.

Im sure his foot is gonna seem to heal but for how long?

I really like Noel but it seems he can have a great game giving it his all but then follows it up taking it easy for a couple of games then has to sit out a game or 2.

I see Embiid having this same kind of impact. Can have a great game but then will have to take it easy for a few then having to rest some games.

This falls on your medical staff giving the OK to draft these guys high in the draft.

Alayla
04-02-2016, 11:20 PM
Im assuming Phillys med staff do extensive medical exams on potential draftees. Im also assuming the FO puts their medicals staff exams as the most important criteria before drafting a player. And you guys drafted Embiid #3.

I graduated from HS 24 years ago, I remember very little from Health class but I do remember that girls stop growing at 17/18 & boys stop growing at 21 for the most part.

Your med staff had to give the OK to draft Embiid, an 18 yr old with a broken foot that needs a whole year to recover, but how? Did they not know that he can still potentially grow? Or did they feel comfortable cause surely they have alot of experience (with positive results) fixing still growing kids feet to play in the NBA?

Also, do they not know that Embiids job will require that he runs sprints at full speed, jump, land, plant, cut all on a bone probably as thick as a pencil.

Im sure his foot is gonna seem to heal but for how long?

I really like Noel but it seems he can have a great game giving it his all but then follows it up taking it easy for a couple of games then has to sit out a game or 2.

I see Embiid having this same kind of impact. Can have a great game but then will have to take it easy for a few then having to rest some games.

This falls on your medical staff giving the OK to draft these guys high in the draft.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/noelne01.html
Noel plays the vast majority of games..

hugepatsfan
04-03-2016, 12:49 PM
Only way moving Okafor makes sense to me is if it's as part of a package for someone like Jimmy Butler or a pretty much one for one swap of him for a similarly talented player at another position - i.e. Okafor for Ingram's draft rights.

McAllen Tx
04-03-2016, 02:47 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/n/noelne01.html
Noel plays the vast majority of games..

Do you even know what you're showing me?

There was one stretch that Noel played like 25 straight games but for the most part hes played 7-9 games and takes 2 games off then again 7-9 games then 2 off.

Is it precautionary? Could be but it doesn't give a good impression. From the outside it looks like hes damaged goods. To date hes missed 15 games and counting this season.

TDE
04-03-2016, 03:11 PM
If 76ers land Simmons, they would get low balled by the league. It's not a situation where Philly can make it work with 4 interior players and NBA knows that.

basketballkitty
04-03-2016, 03:16 PM
If 76ers land Simmons, they would get low balled by the league. It's not a situation where Philly can make it work with 4 interior players and NBA knows that.



No they wouldn't cause Okafor would be wanted by several teams looking for an elite NBA Center. Teams would outbid one another to secure his services. And Simmons, he means nothing as it goes to Okafor cause he can play pretty much any position. No he chose not to shoot jump shots in college. That's because why should he ? He dominated in a way that no other NCAA freshman has ever done before. If the time comes where he needs to develop a jumper...I'm sure he can/will. But getting him does not lower Okafor's trade value.

da ThRONe
04-03-2016, 05:14 PM
No they wouldn't cause Okafor would be wanted by several teams looking for an elite NBA Center. Teams would outbid one another to secure his services. And Simmons, he means nothing as it goes to Okafor cause he can play pretty much any position. No he chose not to shoot jump shots in college. That's because why should he ? He dominated in a way that no other NCAA freshman has ever done before. If the time comes where he needs to develop a jumper...I'm sure he can/will. But getting him does not lower Okafor's trade value.

The Knicks were laterally the only team Carmelo wanted to play for when he left Denver, and New York outbid themselves. If Okafor is available this off season teams will be offering a ton to get him no matter what Philly roster looks like.

TDE
04-03-2016, 05:17 PM
Agree to disagree

basketballkitty
04-03-2016, 05:43 PM
Agree to disagree


It's anyone's right to be wrong. Look, like it or not but even average C's are wanted at a high cost. It doesn't mater to Philly cause if need be, both Embiid, who won't be asked to start or play a ton of time early on, and Noel can play PF...especially on D. Okafor has proven he is a Tim Duncan-like clone at PF on offense at least. So since a lot of teams would love to have that.....there is leverage for Hinkie. This applies as long as the players have shown Game. And don't have any red flags against them. And none of them do. I still say that no matter his age and offensive stats that it is Noel who truly is the most wanted Center that they have. I have heard many teams since last year have made offers for him.