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ewing
03-23-2016, 10:17 AM
This guy is averaging 17, 14, and 4 blocks since the break. It seems like at the start of the season PSD loved him, then they hated him. I'll admit i haven't seen a ton of Heat games but i'm a fan. What are people opinion of Whiteside? Where does he wind up next year? ect

Gander13SM
03-23-2016, 10:31 AM
My opinion of him? I have very mixed feelings towards him.

1. I can't stand him. I think he's an arrogant piece of **** who only cares about stuffing his own stats and would be a horrible fit for any team looking to play any sort of team-oriented basketball (he won't be signing with Spurs, Warriors or Hawks. Put it that way). This could just be because it's a contract year, but I doubt it. He's a dick.

2. I think he's overrated by box score enthusiasts. Blocks aren't that valuable if you're volley ball spiking the ball out of bounds and giving the opponent extra possessions... or if you're getting out of position and leaving your team defensively vulnerable just to try and get an extra block to your tally.

3. He's actually really skilled. And all the advanced stats (defensively) back up his case for being one of the best big men in the league defensively and in regards to rebounding.

4. He came from being a 33rd pick that ended up playing in Lebanon of all places to a stat stuffing NBA star. Fair play to him, I wouldn't have the drive to do something like that.


I don't like him. But I'm slowly coming around to the fact that he is very skilled and has worked hard to get to where he is, he's still young so he's probably just trying to enjoy the moment. Regardless, I still don't like the way he will jump over team mates to get a rebound so that it's credited to his totals etc. I just don't like his attitude. But then again for the most part I don't like players like him, although there are exceptions.


Where do I think he'll end up? Well if the rumours are true that he's unhappy with his current role in Miami and his team mates think he's a complete dick. I'm going to guess he ends up with a team like Houston (let D12 walk), Lakers (star attraction, gives them a good young core for building around) or maybe Brooklyn depending on what their salary situation is, I can't imagine it's great.

But I think he'll end up staying in Miami.

yungincome
03-23-2016, 10:48 AM
Lakers

WaDe03
03-23-2016, 11:17 AM
Finally got his head on straight. Long meeting with Spo and Riley have him with the right mindset. That's all us Heat fans have been waiting for. He's a straight monster and should be DPOY All-NBA 1st team defense and MIP. Would be 6th man of the year but he's ineligible. Best center in the East 2nd best in the league behind Cousins.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
03-23-2016, 11:28 AM
Lakers

please god no

Dade County
03-23-2016, 11:52 AM
He's still learning the game.

In time he will learn the game behind the game... The inner working of the association his apart of.


He also is still learning how Pat Riley and the HEAT organization do things behind the scenes.


I see him playing for the HEAT next year. He will earn the respect from most fans this upcoming playoffs.

But I do feel that Spo is taking it to far with Whiteside still coming off the bench. A very dangerous mind game, Whiteside is still immature and he will most likely take it the wrong way.

Big Zo
03-23-2016, 11:53 AM
He also went from being one of the worst free throw shooters in the league, to damn near automatic. He's made huge strides within just a few months.

KnicksorBust
03-23-2016, 11:56 AM
This whole Wade/Bosh/Dragic/Deng/Stat core has a short window. Winslow/Whiteside are the future. I don't think he goes anywhere.

WaDe03
03-23-2016, 11:59 AM
Yea he's like 80+% from free throw since the break and his jumper has also been basically automatic. Riley said he's never seen anything like the way Whiteside has progressed.

WaDe03
03-23-2016, 12:00 PM
This whole Wade/Bosh/Dragic/Deng/Stat core has a short window. Winslow/Whiteside are the future. I don't think he goes anywhere.

Don't forget JRich and Tyler Johnson. JRich may be our best rookie lol. Riley said he's trying to get Wade to play until he's 40 lol.

Tony_Starks
03-23-2016, 01:04 PM
If and ONLY if he stays with Miami under Riley and Spo he could develop into a quality allstar caliber Center.

If he leaves he'll be Andrew Bynum 2.0 and some teams big mistake.

ewing
03-23-2016, 01:12 PM
I thought the Heat didn't have bird rights or the room to give him decent money this off season?

ewing
03-23-2016, 01:12 PM
Can they keep him? How?

DODGERS&LAKERS
03-23-2016, 01:20 PM
Can they keep him? How?

I think I remember reading somewhere that either Wade had to take a huge pay cut or the Heat had to make the choice between Whiteside and Wade. I'm not sure how accurate that is

WaDe03
03-23-2016, 01:27 PM
From what I've read the Heat only have 48M tied up for 2016 and 5M of that is McRoberts who will probably be traded so about 43M.

Scoots
03-23-2016, 01:36 PM
I was in favor of the Warriors bringing in Whiteside when he was in the wilderness because he had shown his talent. When he got the call he showed he belonged in the NBA fairly quickly. But mentally he's still suspicious at best.

I can't say he's the 2nd best C in the NBA ... I don't know that I'd have him in my top 5 right now. But he's been very good lately for sure. (Gasol, Towns, Cousins, Jordan, Drummons, Horford I have above Whiteside at the moment ... with Towns going up fast and Cousins slipping)

The problem he and Dwight have is they want to play on teams that play inside out and I don't know how many teams there are like that anymore.

Bring The Heat
03-23-2016, 01:42 PM
I think he stays with the Heat because we are basically the only team that believed in him.. He was waived by several teams and one point was unemployed playing at the YMCA... The Heat gave him opportunity other teams didn't. The Heat have been developing this guy, along with the hard work he has put in has paid tremendous dividends. I think he stays with us because somebody like Pat Riley and Spoelstra will humble him and keep his head on straight since he has had some issues in the past acting up.

It's no coincidence he has become a great player now and reaching his potential since joining the Miami Heat. They have done a phenomenal job in his development as a player. He knows that.

WaDe03
03-23-2016, 01:53 PM
Whiteside also said he doesn't want to be the focal point on a losing team so keep that in mind during free agency.

RCarlson85
03-23-2016, 01:54 PM
My opinion of him? I have very mixed feelings towards him.

1. I can't stand him. I think he's an arrogant piece of **** who only cares about stuffing his own stats and would be a horrible fit for any team looking to play any sort of team-oriented basketball (he won't be signing with Spurs, Warriors or Hawks. Put it that way). This could just be because it's a contract year, but I doubt it. He's a dick.

2. I think he's overrated by box score enthusiasts. Blocks aren't that valuable if you're volley ball spiking the ball out of bounds and giving the opponent extra possessions... or if you're getting out of position and leaving your team defensively vulnerable just to try and get an extra block to your tally.

3. He's actually really skilled. And all the advanced stats (defensively) back up his case for being one of the best big men in the league defensively and in regards to rebounding.

4. He came from being a 33rd pick that ended up playing in Lebanon of all places to a stat stuffing NBA star. Fair play to him, I wouldn't have the drive to do something like that.


I don't like him. But I'm slowly coming around to the fact that he is very skilled and has worked hard to get to where he is, he's still young so he's probably just trying to enjoy the moment. Regardless, I still don't like the way he will jump over team mates to get a rebound so that it's credited to his totals etc. I just don't like his attitude. But then again for the most part I don't like players like him, although there are exceptions.


Where do I think he'll end up? Well if the rumours are true that he's unhappy with his current role in Miami and his team mates think he's a complete dick. I'm going to guess he ends up with a team like Houston (let D12 walk), Lakers (star attraction, gives them a good young core for building around) or maybe Brooklyn depending on what their salary situation is, I can't imagine it's great.

But I think he'll end up staying in Miami.

In regards to the first statement I bolded, you should probably actually watch some games or some highlights before making an assumption like this. He keeps balls in play on blocked shots better than anyone in the NBA right now. If it's at all possible to keep it in play he does. Really the only time he doesn't is if it's along the baseline where there's no room to keep it in. A large majority of the time, his blocks lead to fast breaks and scores on the other end because he keeps it in play.

In regards to the second bolded statement, would you not want someone on whatever team you follow to go aggressively after every rebound? It's not always easy to tell who you're fighting for a rebound with. I want him going hard after every rebound rather than backing off in hopes that someone else gets it.

I'm not sure why doing his job as a center and going hard to get blocked shots and rebounds is a bad thing. Just because he's kind of young and immature at times it means that he's doing that with the goal of stat stuffing? If it were Tim Duncan or someone like that he would just be praised for his hard work and hustle.

ewing
03-23-2016, 01:58 PM
In regards to the first statement I bolded, you should probably actually watch some games or some highlights before making an assumption like this. He keeps balls in play on blocked shots better than anyone in the NBA right now. If it's at all possible to keep it in play he does. Really the only time he doesn't is if it's along the baseline where there's no room to keep it in. A large majority of the time, his blocks lead to fast breaks and scores on the other end because he keeps it in play.

In regards to the second bolded statement, would you not want someone on whatever team you follow to go aggressively after every rebound? It's not always easy to tell who you're fighting for a rebound with. I want him going hard after every rebound rather than backing off in hopes that someone else gets it.

I'm not sure why doing his job as a center and going hard to get blocked shots and rebounds is a bad thing. Just because he's kind of young and immature at times it means that he's doing that with the goal of stat stuffing? If it were Tim Duncan or someone like that he would just be praised for his hard work and hustle.


I agree with this. Dude goes and get rebounds- good for him. He strong as ****, a freak, and has young legs. Same with blocks. He does have the wrap of chasing blocks and maybe he chases rebounds early to detriment of team defense sometimes as well, i'm not sure- i haven't watch enough. Even if he does though, young players chase the ball. They are playing hard but not smart at times. This may lead to some empty stats but i don't see it as stat stuffing. Regardless, you need talent to get those #s and by reports he seems to be learning.

L@ker4Life
03-23-2016, 01:59 PM
If and ONLY if he stays with Miami under Riley and Spo he could develop into a quality allstar caliber Center.

If he leaves he'll be Andrew Bynum 2.0 and some teams big mistake.

What?!? C'mon man! :eyebrow:

Bring The Heat
03-23-2016, 02:39 PM
Like poster said above if you been watching games, many of his blocks have stayed in play and lead to fast breaks so that statement from the previous poster is completely inaccurate. Alonzo Mourning who was the best at this has been mentoring him and it has shown.

Scoots
03-23-2016, 02:50 PM
He's been a lot better since the ASB ... is he going to get/demand the max is the only real question.

Tony_Starks
03-23-2016, 02:52 PM
What?!? C'mon man! :eyebrow:



Nah man. I holler 'd at Mitch, we prefer Horford over Whiteside! :cool:

WaDe03
03-23-2016, 02:58 PM
He's been a lot better since the ASB ... is he going to get/demand the max is the only real question.

He deserves at least double the money Tristan Thompson or Chandler Parsons makes if that tells you everything. He could demand the max or he could sign at somewhat of a discount. He's already said he doesn't want to be the focal point of a bad team so I would think he's at least open to discussing a discount.

Slug3
03-23-2016, 03:13 PM
He deserves at least double the money Tristan Thompson or Chandler Parsons makes if that tells you everything. He could demand the max or he could sign at somewhat of a discount. He's already said he doesn't want to be the focal point of a bad team so I would think he's at least open to discussing a discount.

So he should get a 5 year 164 million deal? Thats essentially 32.5 million a year. I don't think he is worth that at all.

ewing
03-23-2016, 03:32 PM
So he should get a 5 year 164 million deal? Thats essentially 32.5 million a year. I don't think he is worth that at all.

where are you getting that? I don't think that is where the max projects to be for whiteside

SteBO
03-23-2016, 03:41 PM
He's gonna get the max....it's only a matter of whether or not Miami's willing to give it to him and based on what Pat Riley said at the HEAT's family fest, I can safely say he's gonna offer it. He's been nothing short of awesome since the break, and he's impacted the games defensively in a positive way. Night and day compared to pre-ASB in terms of attitude and willingness to put the team ahead of himself.

Scoots
03-23-2016, 04:06 PM
where are you getting that? I don't think that is where the max projects to be for whiteside

He was just responding to WaDe03 saying "He deserves at least double the money Tristan Thompson"/

ewing
03-23-2016, 04:07 PM
He was just responding to WaDe03 saying "He deserves at least double the money Tristan Thompson"/

ohhhh..... my bad

Slug3
03-23-2016, 04:25 PM
ohhhh..... my bad

Yeah just responding to him saying he should get double. I think the most Whiteside can get is around a 4 year 90 million deal.

ewing
03-23-2016, 04:29 PM
Yeah just responding to him saying he should get double. I think the most Whiteside can get is around a 4 year 90 million deal.

that's what i thought too. which would saddle you with whiteside til he is 30. you have to like him b/c its a bit of gamble for a guy that doesn't have that much experience but it seems pretty reasonable to me

WaDe03
03-23-2016, 04:51 PM
So he should get a 5 year 164 million deal? Thats essentially 32.5 million a year. I don't think he is worth that at all.

I meant it as if they are making that much money he deserves whatever he can get. He's much better than both of them.

Damn, everyone's trying to nitpick every little thing I say.

phantasyyy
03-23-2016, 05:09 PM
I think he stays with the Heat because we are basically the only team that believed in him.. He was waived by several teams and one point was unemployed playing at the YMCA... The Heat gave him opportunity other teams didn't. The Heat have been developing this guy, along with the hard work he has put in has paid tremendous dividends. I think he stays with us because somebody like Pat Riley and Spoelstra will humble him and keep his head on straight since he has had some issues in the past acting up.

It's no coincidence he has become a great player now and reaching his potential since joining the Miami Heat. They have done a phenomenal job in his development as a player. He knows that.

That's wishful thinking at best... obviously he'll consider the heat until another team backs up the brinks truck to throw that max contract at him.. I mean the dude is making under a million this year, and has bounced around the world before settling back into the NBA. I'm sure he's itching to ink that guaranteed contract to reward him for staying the course and finally dominating..

Can a Heat fan clarify if you guys can even afford him after resigning Wade? I mean you don't have his bird-rights..

Slug3
03-23-2016, 05:41 PM
I meant it as if they are making that much money he deserves whatever he can get. He's much better than both of them.

Damn, everyone's trying to nitpick every little thing I say.

I actually knew what you meant, I just wanted to give you a hard time. :)

Slug3
03-23-2016, 05:51 PM
That's wishful thinking at best... obviously he'll consider the heat until another team backs up the brinks truck to throw that max contract at him.. I mean the dude is making under a million this year, and has bounced around the world before settling back into the NBA. I'm sure he's itching to ink that guaranteed contract to reward him for staying the course and finally dominating..

Can a Heat fan clarify if you guys can even afford him after resigning Wade? I mean you don't have his bird-rights..

Without including cap holds are salary is at 48 million with the cap projected at 90 million. Add 20 million for Wade, 1 million for Tyler Johnson and 3 million for UD and the holds are 24 million. So about 72 million with salary and cap holds. I don't think we keep deng so might renounce his rights along with Amare and Green, but if we didn't with those 2 the cap hold would be around 3 million, so nothing too big. Then maybe Joe Johnson at 5 million (I can only assume). So in reality we CAN resign Whiteside to most likely a near max next year, but it leaves us with really nothing else to go after.

McAllen Tx
03-23-2016, 05:58 PM
Miami shouldnt have a problem resigning Whiteside if they make him their priority. Problem there is if they sign him 1st starting $21 million (max for him) they wont have enough $ to offer either KD or LBJ a max contract without having to renounce their cap hold on Wade. If they do that they also renounce their bird rights to him and Wade would have to take a big paycut. All last summer Wade wanted a long term contract so I dont think that would go to well with him.

If Miami dont prioritize Whiteside he will most likely sign somewhere else cause would have to take less then max if they sign either KD or LBJ.

Miami doesnt have all this spending money some posters make it seem they have.

If Riley spends too much time courting either KD or LBJ and not sign either he could end up w/o Whiteside also.

WaDe03
03-23-2016, 06:00 PM
I actually knew what you meant, I just wanted to give you a hard time. :)

Haha it's all good!

Scoots
03-23-2016, 07:07 PM
$94M for 4 years (I think that's the max Miami is allowed to offer) is betting pretty hard on him. Then he'll be 30 for his next deal.

mrblisterdundee
03-23-2016, 07:39 PM
Hassan Whiteside will be the second-most sought after center this summer, after Andre Drummond. I'd put his value right up there with DeAndre Jordan's.
Dallas should go hard after him, as should Boston, Chicago and Miami.

mrblisterdundee
03-23-2016, 07:42 PM
Without including cap holds are salary is at 48 million with the cap projected at 90 million. Add 20 million for Wade, 1 million for Tyler Johnson and 3 million for UD and the holds are 24 million. So about 72 million with salary and cap holds. I don't think we keep deng so might renounce his rights along with Amare and Green, but if we didn't with those 2 the cap hold would be around 3 million, so nothing too big. Then maybe Joe Johnson at 5 million (I can only assume). So in reality we CAN resign Whiteside to most likely a near max next year, but it leaves us with really nothing else to go after.

If Wade cares about the Heat competing, he'll take a pay cut. He's not worth $20 million anyway.

Slug3
03-24-2016, 09:38 AM
If Wade cares about the Heat competing, he'll take a pay cut. He's not worth $20 million anyway.

I mean I could see a 3 year 45 million deal for him. But Wade has been pretty stubborn thinking he is worth more than he is. The biggest problem here is that we don't know what the situation is with Bosh.

Stinkyoutsider
03-24-2016, 10:13 AM
I think the Whiteside situation is a tough one for the Heat going forward...

He seems like he's sort of a headcase sometimes? Loosing the focus on the big picture and causing a few problems with an outburst or 2.

But, a player who's athletic and has the ability to improve in spurts is a player you have to hold onto. If he can make leaps in skill in the future like he has this year, then you keep him and you put resources around him (like an Alonzo Mourning or some kind of mentor) that can try to keep his attitude in check. Players, especially big men, like Whiteside don't grow on trees...

Vinylman
03-24-2016, 11:14 AM
He's gonna get the max....it's only a matter of whether or not Miami's willing to give it to him and based on what Pat Riley said at the HEAT's family fest, I can safely say he's gonna offer it. He's been nothing short of awesome since the break, and he's impacted the games defensively in a positive way. Night and day compared to pre-ASB in terms of attitude and willingness to put the team ahead of himself.

How is Miami going to offer him the max without renouncing Wade? They can't go over the cap to sign Whiteside unless the CBA has changed in the last month.

J_M_B
03-24-2016, 11:40 AM
How is Miami going to offer him the max without renouncing Wade? They can't go over the cap to sign Whiteside unless the CBA has changed in the last month.

Miami only has Bosh, Dragic and McRoberts on the books, plus the two rookies. They have cap space. Riley's biggest problem is trying to resign Wade & Whiteside AND an outside FA. That's where it gets tricky.

WaDe03
03-24-2016, 12:13 PM
I mean I could see a 3 year 45 million deal for him. But Wade has been pretty stubborn thinking he is worth more than he is. The biggest problem here is that we don't know what the situation is with Bosh.

He's been underpaid his whole career to help out the team. Nothing about that is stubborn. He may have had a high asking price this summer but it was a 1 year deal and had no effect the team. He got his biggest paycheck of his career. He did this because he's about to take a huge pay cut possibly a Dirk/Duncan type deal to put a great team together.

Vinylman
03-24-2016, 12:18 PM
Miami only has Bosh, Dragic and McRoberts on the books, plus the two rookies. They have cap space. Riley's biggest problem is trying to resign Wade & Whiteside AND an outside FA. That's where it gets tricky.


You are forgetting the cap holds for the other roster spots... they add up quickly.

If Miami takes the option on Richardson they will have 5 guys under contract for $49 million ... you then have to add 7 cap holds at the rookie minimum (around 500k I believe) that takes their total to $52.5 million leaving them $38 million to work with

So at $52.5 they would have to renounce everyone but wade (assuming his hold is $20 million which is probably low) ... that leaves $17.5 million for Whiteside which is below his max.

They might be able to trade McBob to get Whiteside's number higher but how do you propose they can sign ANOTHER FA?

naps
03-24-2016, 04:30 PM
That's^^ why Riley said Whiteside is making his free agency plans difficult. Miami wont have enough to sign another FA if they want to keep both Wade and Whiteside at their assumed prices unless ofcourse they agree to work something out with a wink wink deal. That's a difficult situation to be in specially if you are whiteside. First big payday. You just cant expect someone to leave nearly 100 millions on the table out of loyalty assuming he gets paid the year after when Miami will have his bird rights. If he gets injured, he's screwed for life.

McAllen Tx
03-24-2016, 05:43 PM
That's^^ why Riley said Whiteside is making his free agency plans difficult. Miami wont have enough to sign another FA if they want to keep both Wade and Whiteside at their assumed prices unless ofcourse they agree to work something out with a wink wink deal. That's a difficult situation to be in specially if you are whiteside. First big payday. You just cant expect someone to leave nearly 100 millions on the table out of loyalty assuming he gets paid the year after when Miami will have his bird rights. If he gets injured, he's screwed for life.
No way Whiteside dont get paid this summer. Riley needs to know really quick who he's gonna prioritize (Whiteside or KD) cause the other isnt gonna wait on him. Miami dont have $ for both and Wade.

FlashBolt
03-24-2016, 05:51 PM
So you can't get rid of Bosh. Wade is a keeper I'm guessing. You need Dragic as the PG. Hopefully Joe has made enough money off Brooklyn that he doesn't care about money. You have Whiteside wanting the max (which I think is tricky because no other franchise would have had the patience the way Miami has had with him). I'm guessing Miami plans on signing another marquee free agent? Don't see how it's possible here. Miami doesn't have a bunch of options here. Dragic has been amazing for them lately -- showing signs of being an 18/5/7 player again. Bosh is a keeper (who can you trade him for and his relationship with the organization makes him a keeper, he's still a top ten PF and there aren't great PF's in the free agency next season), Whiteside is a must for this team. He's the only guy on the Heat capable of making it tough for the Cavs. The other top free agents are SF's/SG's; LeBron, KD, and DeRozan. I just don't see them getting any of those guys. This team will most likely be the same next season. Certainly good enough to win, IMO.

FlashBolt
03-24-2016, 05:55 PM
He's been underpaid his whole career to help out the team. Nothing about that is stubborn. He may have had a high asking price this summer but it was a 1 year deal and had no effect the team. He got his biggest paycheck of his career. He did this because he's about to take a huge pay cut possibly a Dirk/Duncan type deal to put a great team together.

Underpaid? Sorry, but if you're telling me Wade was underpaid, you're just wrong here. He wasn't worth the max the times the Heat had the big three besides their first season. He was paid the right price IMO because he sat way too many games. Your max player shouldn't be sitting out 20-30 games per season.. So there is no argument for Wade to be underpaid here. Now, if you meant Wade can get the max.. well, I really don't think any other management would have settled for Wade sitting out games. Not every team had the luxury of LeBron James to say "Go take a break, LeBron got this tonight." And then you come into a situation where Wade is 34, wants to retire as a Heat, but wants to get paid like he's 24. That's a huge problem. Does he deserve it? Yeah, he's been incredibly loyal to them. But he's not worth it. That's for Wade to decide anyhow. I just don't see how Wade can play up to 38 and be paid $20 million+ per year. That's worse than Kobe.

Scoots
03-24-2016, 06:20 PM
You have Whiteside wanting the max (which I think is tricky because no other franchise would have had the patience the way Miami has had with him).

At the money he was making and what he's shown on the court EVERY team would have had the patience to stick with him. You can't teach height and he's got it. Look at what Sacto has done to their team for Cousins.

FlashBolt
03-24-2016, 06:24 PM
At the money he was making and what he's shown on the court EVERY team would have had the patience to stick with him. You can't teach height and he's got it. Look at what Sacto has done to their team for Cousins.

I never said they wouldn't have. I just think Miami has handled him pretty well. Not every franchise can do that for you.

Scoots
03-24-2016, 06:32 PM
I never said they wouldn't have. I just think Miami has handled him pretty well. Not every franchise can do that for you.

You literally said "no other franchise would have had the patience"

FlashBolt
03-24-2016, 06:46 PM
You literally said "no other franchise would have had the patience"

Just curious, is there a reason you didn't quote the finished sentence.
Full sentence: "You have Whiteside wanting the max (which I think is tricky because no other franchise would have had the patience the way Miami has had with him)."

I never said a team wouldn't have patience with Whiteside. My point was that Miami has done a great job with Whiteside.

WaDe03
03-24-2016, 07:20 PM
Underpaid? Sorry, but if you're telling me Wade was underpaid, you're just wrong here. He wasn't worth the max the times the Heat had the big three besides their first season. He was paid the right price IMO because he sat way too many games. Your max player shouldn't be sitting out 20-30 games per season.. So there is no argument for Wade to be underpaid here. Now, if you meant Wade can get the max.. well, I really don't think any other management would have settled for Wade sitting out games. Not every team had the luxury of LeBron James to say "Go take a break, LeBron got this tonight." And then you come into a situation where Wade is 34, wants to retire as a Heat, but wants to get paid like he's 24. That's a huge problem. Does he deserve it? Yeah, he's been incredibly loyal to them. But he's not worth it. That's for Wade to decide anyhow. I just don't see how Wade can play up to 38 and be paid $20 million+ per year. That's worse than Kobe.

There was a time Wade was the best player in the world and this year is the first year he's made 20M so yes he's definitely been underpaid and has always taken less to help the team. I don't understand how someone could think otherwise.

beasted86
03-24-2016, 07:59 PM
Underpaid? Sorry, but if you're telling me Wade was underpaid, you're just wrong here. He wasn't worth the max the times the Heat had the big three besides their first season. He was paid the right price IMO because he sat way too many games. Your max player shouldn't be sitting out 20-30 games per season.. So there is no argument for Wade to be underpaid here. Now, if you meant Wade can get the max.. well, I really don't think any other management would have settled for Wade sitting out games. Not every team had the luxury of LeBron James to say "Go take a break, LeBron got this tonight." And then you come into a situation where Wade is 34, wants to retire as a Heat, but wants to get paid like he's 24. That's a huge problem. Does he deserve it? Yeah, he's been incredibly loyal to them. But he's not worth it. That's for Wade to decide anyhow. I just don't see how Wade can play up to 38 and be paid $20 million+ per year. That's worse than Kobe.

The flaw to start your entire rant is none of the big 3 were making the max during the 4 year run. They all signed for about a $3M discount off their max which ended up totaling about $25M over the 6 year deal factoring in raises. Best case scenario that I'd begin to buy into your "paid the right price" argument is the very last year of that deal where he made $18M in 13/14 to average 19 on 55% FG, but also miss 28 games, his highest volume since 08.

Also pay is always subjective, but you have to think in comparative terms. If you supposedly say Wade was paid just the right amount, I think you need to evaluate the entire market of contracts signed at or around that time. Was Joe Johnson overpaid or just right? Carlos Boozer? Stoudemire? Rudy Gay? Paul Pierce? All those guys signed in 2010. Suddenly you look around and if you think all of these guys were overpaid to produce less every year than Wade was as a second option, that would tell you something is wrong with your financial valuation and you need to adjust. I refuse to agree Wade is the "just right" barometer earning $16M in his second year of that contract, putting up 22/5/5 and 1.3 blk on 50% FG, or 21/5/5 and 1.9 stl on 52% the following season making $17M. That would mean too many people in the NBA were overpaid at the time.

We_need_players
03-24-2016, 09:52 PM
Hassan Whiteside will be the second-most sought after center this summer, after Andre Drummond. I'd put his value right up there with DeAndre Jordan's.
Dallas should go hard after him, as should Boston, Chicago and Miami.

Drummond isn't leaving Detroit and I'm pretty sure the whole NBA knows that. I don't think Whiteside is better than Drummond but I think he will be more sought after than Dre because he's unrestricted and because of what I said before.

I'd like to see him in Dallas or Boston, I think they're two of his biggest suitors as said by you!

Scoots
03-24-2016, 11:00 PM
Just curious, is there a reason you didn't quote the finished sentence.
Full sentence: "You have Whiteside wanting the max (which I think is tricky because no other franchise would have had the patience the way Miami has had with him)."

I never said a team wouldn't have patience with Whiteside. My point was that Miami has done a great job with Whiteside.

I DID quote the full sentence, you replied that you didn't say it, so I re-quoted you ACTUALLY LITERALLY saying it. The other words in the sentence don't change the meaning of that part of the sentence. If what you meant was that Miami did a good job you should have said that and left out the part where you said "no other franchise would have had the patience" because that ACTUALLY LITERALLY means you think that "no other franchise would have had the patience" that Miami has had. I don't understand why you want to drag this out. This is 1+1=2 stuff and you are arguing that you never said 1+1=2 and in fact that you said 32/8=4 ... it's nonsense.

Scoots
03-24-2016, 11:02 PM
There was a time Wade was the best player in the world and this year is the first year he's made 20M so yes he's definitely been underpaid and has always taken less to help the team. I don't understand how someone could think otherwise.

I think his failure to understand is either that he's incapable of understanding simple logic, or that he's a troll, and we are just feeding him.

WaDe03
03-24-2016, 11:07 PM
I think it's probably both lol.

5ass
03-25-2016, 12:31 AM
I want the Magic to offer him a max contract if Hassan can pass the character test for Hennigan. I said last year that he was going to prove to the best center in the east in 2016. Personally I'm not a big fan of Drummond, so I didn't think he had strong competition. I don't mean to say Drummond isn't pretty good, but he's nothing special IMO. Vucevic is a good center himself, but if the Magic sign Hassan they could be a great defensive team and have elite potential on that end. We could keep Vucevic and bring him off the bench as a PF/C or trade him.

MonroeFAN
03-25-2016, 06:20 AM
So you can't get rid of Bosh. Wade is a keeper I'm guessing. You need Dragic as the PG. Hopefully Joe has made enough money off Brooklyn that he doesn't care about money. You have Whiteside wanting the max (which I think is tricky because no other franchise would have had the patience the way Miami has had with him). I'm guessing Miami plans on signing another marquee free agent? Don't see how it's possible here. Miami doesn't have a bunch of options here. Dragic has been amazing for them lately -- showing signs of being an 18/5/7 player again. Bosh is a keeper (who can you trade him for and his relationship with the organization makes him a keeper, he's still a top ten PF and there aren't great PF's in the free agency next season), Whiteside is a must for this team. He's the only guy on the Heat capable of making it tough for the Cavs. The other top free agents are SF's/SG's; LeBron, KD, and DeRozan. I just don't see them getting any of those guys. This team will most likely be the same next season. Certainly good enough to win, IMO.

Win what?

Ty Fast
03-25-2016, 08:49 AM
He'll go to the highest bidder. I could see the Mavs getting him.

S.L.ugger
03-25-2016, 09:43 AM
I wonder which center Cuban is gonna go all-in to get..

McAllen Tx
03-25-2016, 10:11 AM
Win what?

Right, IDK what he thinks they're good enough to win.

FlashBolt
03-25-2016, 12:19 PM
There was a time Wade was the best player in the world and this year is the first year he's made 20M so yes he's definitely been underpaid and has always taken less to help the team. I don't understand how someone could think otherwise.


I never said he wasn't underpaid for some years. You said he was underpaid his entire career. I simply don't think so when you consider his cost-benefit during some of those years in the Big Three era.


The flaw to start your entire rant is none of the big 3 were making the max during the 4 year run. They all signed for about a $3M discount off their max which ended up totaling about $25M over the 6 year deal factoring in raises. Best case scenario that I'd begin to buy into your "paid the right price" argument is the very last year of that deal where he made $18M in 13/14 to average 19 on 55% FG, but also miss 28 games, his highest volume since 08.

Also pay is always subjective, but you have to think in comparative terms. If you supposedly say Wade was paid just the right amount, I think you need to evaluate the entire market of contracts signed at or around that time. Was Joe Johnson overpaid or just right? Carlos Boozer? Stoudemire? Rudy Gay? Paul Pierce? All those guys signed in 2010. Suddenly you look around and if you think all of these guys were overpaid to produce less every year than Wade was as a second option, that would tell you something is wrong with your financial valuation and you need to adjust. I refuse to agree Wade is the "just right" barometer earning $16M in his second year of that contract, putting up 22/5/5 and 1.3 blk on 50% FG, or 21/5/5 and 1.9 stl on 52% the following season making $17M. That would mean too many people in the NBA were overpaid at the time.

You're right, pay is subjective. It can also be biased when you determine who is under/overpaid. But that doesn't mean someone who is overpaid has to be the benchmark here. Wade was underpaid in 2010. He was still a top five player and IMO, was clearly the best player in 2008-2009. But you have to agree with me in that Wade took a huge nosedive in the years 2011-present.

2011-2012, he sat out 17 games in a lockout season. On a per game basis, he ranked top five in pay. Do you think he should have been paid as a top five player?

2012-2013, he was good.. but he also missed 13 games. On a per game basis, he ranked second in pay. That's only below Kobe's monstrous $30,000,000 contract.

2013-2014, he missed 28 games. Again, on a per game basis, he ranked second in pay. Below of course, Kobe.

So really, you can look at it from a simplistic view and say well, Wade only made $16 million... yeah, but if you were paid $16 million and worked one day, does that mean you're not overpaid? I believed his contract was just about right. I'm not comparing him to Joe's/Kobe's contract. Clearly Kobe just had an amazing agent/connection with his team and Joe's contract is still crippling the Nets as it is. But to say Wade was underpaid when on a per game basis (which is what you judge how someone is under/overpaid via their value/contribution), he was consistently getting paid as a top two player? Btw, I agree that Joe/Booz//Stoudemire/Gay were overpaid. But using them as the benchmark doesn't make sense here. We clearly established that they were overpaid. Overpaid based on what???? Obviously, someone who was worth their contract and was paid the right amount. I think Wade was paid the right amount.. he should be paid as a top five player because he had the most to sacrifice having James/Bosh come in. However, we can't pretend that if a player misses games, that doesn't hurt the team; it does.



I DID quote the full sentence, you replied that you didn't say it, so I re-quoted you ACTUALLY LITERALLY saying it. The other words in the sentence don't change the meaning of that part of the sentence. If what you meant was that Miami did a good job you should have said that and left out the part where you said "no other franchise would have had the patience" because that ACTUALLY LITERALLY means you think that "no other franchise would have had the patience" that Miami has had. I don't understand why you want to drag this out. This is 1+1=2 stuff and you are arguing that you never said 1+1=2 and in fact that you said 32/8=4 ... it's nonsense.


Dude, can you read? Scroll up. I said that "No other team would have had the patience the way Miami had with him." That doesn't in any form imply that I said no team would have the patience. It's just when you compare it to the way Miami had neutered him, it's not the same level of patience. Ex: No other team would have developed him the way the Spurs did. Does that mean that NO team can develop that player? No, it's just a comparison to the development in Miami that players can go through. So what you did was completely fabricate a sentence that clearly had a BUT in it. Don't try and put the blame on me here and call me the troll when it's simple reading comprehension that you couldn't fulfill. Do you even know what a troll means? Don't just go around tossing that name around just because you see others doing it.

I feel I have to break this down even further for you.

You said I said no team would have the patience for Whiteside.
I said I never said that.

Here is what I also included in that same sentence that you seemed to have not added for some reason (but claimed you added the full sentence?)

"would have had the patience the way Miami has had with him."

If you can't comprehend that, you have bigger problems to worry about than coming onto PSD and calling someone a troll.

Ex: "No other team is as strong as the Warriors."

Does that imply that no team is strong? Do yourself a favor and think about that then let me know where the trolling comes into effect.

Scoots
03-25-2016, 12:37 PM
Here is what I also included in that same sentence that you seemed to have not added for some reason (but claimed you added the full sentence?)

I DID quote the full sentence in the very first quote. Can you read? http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?907034-Hassan-Whiteside&p=30811905#post30811905

FlashBolt
03-25-2016, 12:41 PM
I DID quote the full sentence in the very first quote. Can you read? http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?907034-Hassan-Whiteside&p=30811905#post30811905

This is what you said after:

You literally said "no other franchise would have had the patience"
^--- you didn't include the entire quote on this one.

Which makes it out to be that I'm saying zero teams would have had the patience.

I never said they wouldn't have had the patience, though. Which is where the finished sentence: "would have had the patience the way Miami has had with him." falls into place.

Maybe it was misunderstanding but you shouldn't call someone a troll when the misunderstanding comes from your end.

Slug3
03-25-2016, 12:50 PM
Win what?

Games, Duh!!!!!!!..... "You play to win the Game"

Scoots
03-25-2016, 12:58 PM
This is what you said after:

You literally said "no other franchise would have had the patience"
^--- you didn't include the entire quote on this one.

Which makes it out to be that I'm saying zero teams would have had the patience.

I never said they wouldn't have had the patience, though. Which is where the finished sentence: "would have had the patience the way Miami has had with him." falls into place.

Maybe it was misunderstanding but you shouldn't call someone a troll when the misunderstanding comes from your end.

Okay, so you can't read. I posted your whole quote. You said you never said it. I replied to that and did not include the whole quote THE SECOND TIME. You still said you never said it, and said again that I didn't include the whole quote EVEN THOUGH I DID INCLUDE THE WHOLE QUOTE AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF THIS STUPID DISCUSSION. I post a link to me quoting you saying it and you still seem to think you never said it.

You. Said. It.

I'm not sure you can read, but if what you intended to say was that Miami did a better job developing Whiteside than any other team could then I KNOW you can't write. And if that was what you intended then you are wrong in that as well. As I said SO MANY posts ago, at the money Whiteside was making every team would have tried to develop him and I think several would have had a reasonable chance to do a similar job to the job Miami did with him.



nev·er
ˈnevər/
adverb
adverb: never

1. at no time in the past or future; on no occasion; not ever.

I didn't say you were a troll. I said "I think his failure to understand is either that he's incapable of understanding simple logic, or that he's a troll, and we are just feeding him." So, if you can read then you know that I said you were EITHER a troll or stupid ... and you decided that meant that I was calling you a troll. I admit I don't know if you are just stupid.

FlashBolt
03-25-2016, 01:03 PM
There was a time Wade was the best player in the world and this year is the first year he's made 20M so yes he's definitely been underpaid and has always taken less to help the team. I don't understand how someone could think otherwise.


The flaw to start your entire rant is none of the big 3 were making the max during the 4 year run. They all signed for about a $3M discount off their max which ended up totaling about $25M over the 6 year deal factoring in raises. Best case scenario that I'd begin to buy into your "paid the right price" argument is the very last year of that deal where he made $18M in 13/14 to average 19 on 55% FG, but also miss 28 games, his highest volume since 08.

Also pay is always subjective, but you have to think in comparative terms. If you supposedly say Wade was paid just the right amount, I think you need to evaluate the entire market of contracts signed at or around that time. Was Joe Johnson overpaid or just right? Carlos Boozer? Stoudemire? Rudy Gay? Paul Pierce? All those guys signed in 2010. Suddenly you look around and if you think all of these guys were overpaid to produce less every year than Wade was as a second option, that would tell you something is wrong with your financial valuation and you need to adjust. I refuse to agree Wade is the "just right" barometer earning $16M in his second year of that contract, putting up 22/5/5 and 1.3 blk on 50% FG, or 21/5/5 and 1.9 stl on 52% the following season making $17M. That would mean too many people in the NBA were overpaid at the time.


Okay, so you can't read. I posted your whole quote. You said you never said it. I replied to that and did not include the whole quote THE SECOND TIME. You still said you never said it, and said again that I didn't include the whole quote EVEN THOUGH I DID INCLUDE THE WHOLE QUOTE AT THE VERY BEGINNING OF THIS STUPID DISCUSSION. I post a link to me quoting you saying it and you still seem to think you never said it.

You. Said. It.

I'm not sure you can read, but if what you intended to say was that Miami did a better job developing Whiteside than any other team could then I KNOW you can't write. And if that was what you intended then you are wrong in that as well. As I said SO MANY posts ago, at the money Whiteside was making every team would have tried to develop him and I think several would have had a reasonable chance to do a similar job to the job Miami did with him.

Okay, I'm simply encouraged that you are just acting stubborn here. Not going to waste any time arguing over who's right or wrong here anymore. You said I said no team team would have the patience.. go and find where I said that. If not, just call it a day and admit that we make mistakes.

Scoots
03-25-2016, 01:34 PM
Okay, I'm simply encouraged that you are just acting stubborn here. Not going to waste any time arguing over who's right or wrong here anymore. You said I said no team team would have the patience.. go and find where I said that. If not, just call it a day and admit that we make mistakes.

Found it! http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?907034-Hassan-Whiteside&p=30811855#post30811855

See, right where you say "no other franchise" ... I took that to mean you meant "no other franchise" as in none of the teams in the NBA ... as in not any of them other than Miami ... that's none right? Then you continued with "would have had the patience" ... as in only Miami would have the patience to employ him for 1.5 years and try to make him better. It's what you said. Those were your words ... "no other franchise" It's this stubbornness of yours that confuses me, if what you meant was Miami did a better job than other teams would have then fine, but YOU keep coming back to saying you never said what you said. I guess I will not call it a day ... unless you think you made a mistake?

FlashBolt
03-25-2016, 02:08 PM
Found it! http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?907034-Hassan-Whiteside&p=30811855#post30811855

See, right where you say "no other franchise" ... I took that to mean you meant "no other franchise" as in none of the teams in the NBA ... as in not any of them other than Miami ... that's none right? Then you continued with "would have had the patience" ... as in only Miami would have the patience to employ him for 1.5 years and try to make him better. It's what you said. Those were your words ... "no other franchise" It's this stubbornness of yours that confuses me, if what you meant was Miami did a better job than other teams would have then fine, but YOU keep coming back to saying you never said what you said. I guess I will not call it a day ... unless you think you made a mistake?

The selectivity of this post is all I need to see how incredibly stubborn you are. You didn't find anything. You cut off my sentence into two and then tried to pinpoint that as my argument.. Good job, Scoots.

No where in any of my post did I state that zero teams wouldn't have had any patience with Whiteside. If I say, "No team is as good as the Warriors." Does that to you mean that zero teams are good? Have you established the English vocabulary as in your own terms now?

WaDe03
03-25-2016, 02:09 PM
Win what?

More games than the Pistons.

Scoots
03-25-2016, 03:32 PM
The selectivity of this post is all I need to see how incredibly stubborn you are. You didn't find anything. You cut off my sentence into two and then tried to pinpoint that as my argument.. Good job, Scoots.

No where in any of my post did I state that zero teams wouldn't have had any patience with Whiteside. If I say, "No team is as good as the Warriors." Does that to you mean that zero teams are good? Have you established the English vocabulary as in your own terms now?

This is baffling to me too.

You said "no other franchise would have had the patience" which you think means that some other franchise would have had the patience? In your mind is "no" and "some" the same word?

The ONLY argument I made was that some other team would have had the patience Miami had. That was it. Then you said you never said what you said. Sure I'm being stubborn, but no more stubborn than you are.

Now we have this semantic nightmare to decode "No where in any of my post did I state that zero teams wouldn't have had" ... I assume by "No where" you meant "Nowhere" ... so to restate, at no point in any post did you state that no team would not have had any patience ... a triple negative ... so at no point did you say that any team had patience? I'm pretty sure you said Miami had patience with Whiteside.

On to the next:
"No team is as good as the Warriors." (thanks I agree) Does that to you mean that zero teams are good?

No, that means that in your opinion no teams are as good as the Warriors, or I assume play as well either, though I do think their work in the community is undervalued.

Slug3
03-25-2016, 03:54 PM
This is baffling to me too.

You said "no other franchise would have had the patience" which you think means that some other franchise would have had the patience? In your mind is "no" and "some" the same word?

The ONLY argument I made was that some other team would have had the patience Miami had. That was it. Then you said you never said what you said. Sure I'm being stubborn, but no more stubborn than you are.

Now we have this semantic nightmare to decode "No where in any of my post did I state that zero teams wouldn't have had" ... I assume by "No where" you meant "Nowhere" ... so to restate, at no point in any post did you state that no team would not have had any patience ... a triple negative ... so at no point did you say that any team had patience? I'm pretty sure you said Miami had patience with Whiteside.

On to the next:

No, that means that in your opinion no teams are as good as the Warriors, or I assume play as well either, though I do think their work in the community is undervalued.

In reality no team he was with before had any patients to help develop him, but I am not convinced no other team would not have picked him up and tried after. I would assume he would have kept killing it in the D league as well and gotten a chance. But really there was still a reason he was on a few teams and it didn't work out. Hopefully now that he's a little older and even Miami has limited his minutes when he was acting immature so now maybe its starting to click for him. I think if he can continue his drive to get better even after his big contract then he will be able to help any team for a long time.

Scoots
03-25-2016, 04:31 PM
In reality no team he was with before had any patients to help develop him, but I am not convinced no other team would not have picked him up and tried after. I would assume he would have kept killing it in the D league as well and gotten a chance. But really there was still a reason he was on a few teams and it didn't work out. Hopefully now that he's a little older and even Miami has limited his minutes when he was acting immature so now maybe its starting to click for him. I think if he can continue his drive to get better even after his big contract then he will be able to help any team for a long time.

I'm sure other teams were willing to give him a try when he was killing it in the D-league. I'm also sure other teams were willing to give him a shot after his first half year in Miami. As for other NBA teams giving up on him ... it's not like Sacramento is a model franchise in handling players.

I really hope he keeps improving both for him and for the NBA ... and probably for Heat fans too.

FlashBolt
03-25-2016, 05:50 PM
This is baffling to me too.

You said "no other franchise would have had the patience" which you think means that some other franchise would have had the patience? In your mind is "no" and "some" the same word?

The ONLY argument I made was that some other team would have had the patience Miami had. That was it. Then you said you never said what you said. Sure I'm being stubborn, but no more stubborn than you are.

Now we have this semantic nightmare to decode "No where in any of my post did I state that zero teams wouldn't have had" ... I assume by "No where" you meant "Nowhere" ... so to restate, at no point in any post did you state that no team would not have had any patience ... a triple negative ... so at no point did you say that any team had patience? I'm pretty sure you said Miami had patience with Whiteside.

On to the next:

No, that means that in your opinion no teams are as good as the Warriors, or I assume play as well either, though I do think their work in the community is undervalued.

Where am I being stubborn? I have zero reason to be when you're just half-quoting people and then trying to fixate yourself on being correct. You know what? You win. Does that help this situation better? Don't call someone a troll, though, when it was a misunderstanding on YOUR part. Read it again. I clearly said that Miami has had more patience than any other team would have regarding Whiteside. That doesn't mean they wouldn't have any patience -- just not the same the way Miami has put up with it.

Again, you even agree with me here.

"No team is as good as the Warriors." (thanks I agree) Does that to you mean that zero teams are good?
No, that means that in your opinion no teams are as good as the Warriors, or I assume play as well either, though I do think their work in the community is undervalued.

Translating this into the "patience" argument, you are basically arguing that I said there are no good teams out there. But I NEVER said that. I said there could be good teams out there but they aren't as good as the Warriors.

I really have trouble deciphering what your meaning is. Maybe it's coming from a different angle that I am not aware of but you haven't made any of that evident here. You're just full-quoting my post, then half-quoting it in another, and then saying I said things by using that half-quote. Half-quotes are half-quotes.

Scoots
03-25-2016, 06:23 PM
Where am I being stubborn? I have zero reason to be when you're just half-quoting people and then trying to fixate yourself on being correct. You know what? You win. Does that help this situation better? Don't call someone a troll, though, when it was a misunderstanding on YOUR part. Read it again. I clearly said that Miami has had more patience than any other team would have regarding Whiteside. That doesn't mean they wouldn't have any patience -- just not the same the way Miami has put up with it.

Again, you even agree with me here.

"No team is as good as the Warriors." (thanks I agree) Does that to you mean that zero teams are good?
No, that means that in your opinion no teams are as good as the Warriors, or I assume play as well either, though I do think their work in the community is undervalued.

Translating this into the "patience" argument, you are basically arguing that I said there are no good teams out there. But I NEVER said that. I said there could be good teams out there but they aren't as good as the Warriors.

I really have trouble deciphering what your meaning is. Maybe it's coming from a different angle that I am not aware of but you haven't made any of that evident here. You're just full-quoting my post, then half-quoting it in another, and then saying I said things by using that half-quote. Half-quotes are half-quotes.

It's VERY simple. You are being stubborn in that you keep coming back and saying you never said something you did say. You said it. Live with it. It's in IIRC post #50 of this thread, and then again and again and again after that. The parsing of language is normal in a discussion of reason and semantics which you have made this. You could have just said "I meant that Miami did a good job with Whiteside" yet you insist on saying over and over that you never said what you did, in actual quoted fact, say.

But that's okay ... I'm just fine being stubborn.


no other franchise would have

By the way the "work in the community" bit was about your misuse of the word "good" ... it was a little jape.

beasted86
03-25-2016, 08:36 PM
You're right, pay is subjective. It can also be biased when you determine who is under/overpaid. But that doesn't mean someone who is overpaid has to be the benchmark here. Wade was underpaid in 2010. He was still a top five player and IMO, was clearly the best player in 2008-2009. But you have to agree with me in that Wade took a huge nosedive in the years 2011-present.

2011-2012, he sat out 17 games in a lockout season. On a per game basis, he ranked top five in pay. Do you think he should have been paid as a top five player?

2012-2013, he was good.. but he also missed 13 games. On a per game basis, he ranked second in pay. That's only below Kobe's monstrous $30,000,000 contract.

2013-2014, he missed 28 games. Again, on a per game basis, he ranked second in pay. Below of course, Kobe.

So really, you can look at it from a simplistic view and say well, Wade only made $16 million... yeah, but if you were paid $16 million and worked one day, does that mean you're not overpaid? I believed his contract was just about right. I'm not comparing him to Joe's/Kobe's contract. Clearly Kobe just had an amazing agent/connection with his team and Joe's contract is still crippling the Nets as it is. But to say Wade was underpaid when on a per game basis (which is what you judge how someone is under/overpaid via their value/contribution), he was consistently getting paid as a top two player? Btw, I agree that Joe/Booz//Stoudemire/Gay were overpaid. But using them as the benchmark doesn't make sense here. We clearly established that they were overpaid. Overpaid based on what???? Obviously, someone who was worth their contract and was paid the right amount. I think Wade was paid the right amount.. he should be paid as a top five player because he had the most to sacrifice having James/Bosh come in. However, we can't pretend that if a player misses games, that doesn't hurt the team; it does.

Still very much the flawed argument. Overpaid players are very much the benchmark because they are the ones that set the entire market.

A player and his agent always look at it from the perspective of the highest paid players in comparative terms and use that to determine current or forecasted worth. The added "kicker" is value to the team which will always be biased upward to a higher amount.

Keeping on the initial subject of Whiteside, he and his agent are forecasting his value based on what DeAndre Jordan got last summer, and whoever signs first out of Drummond and Whiteside, the other's agent will also use that as a benchmark. I promise you none of these guys agents are looking downward and saying "well Omer Asik got $12M and I'm better", all that matters is the very top of the market.

Secondly, the HEAT were often holding Wade out in games he could have or would have otherwise played if they didn't have the talent strong team. Using pay per game is flawed when the HEAT are playing for a championship and not regular season records and holding him out. The truth of his injury availability is evidenced by the playoffs where he might have missed like 2 games in 4 seasons.

Lastly, taking all of that into account I'm still taking Wade in 75-85%% of games over most players in 90-95%. Contracts are restricted by experience. So systematically older players make more and much of that pay isn't going to be in on court production, but rather the large following they garner and fans they are putting in the seats along with media coverage. An older player will more than likely have more fans and coverage than a newer player so they should be paid as such. Wade has always been a huge fan favorite and puts fans in the seats, period. He gets a huge ovation when announced even in visiting arenas. So collectively on the court and intangibles factored in, yes he was underpaid at least 3 of the 4 years.

kobe4thewinbang
03-26-2016, 12:20 PM
I hope the Lakers outright nab him, or work a deal for that draft pick with Miami. I think they need a good center for the future. He's on my 2K team with Derozan, lol. I doubt Riley loses him though.

Cracka2HI!
03-27-2016, 03:28 PM
I think the Lakers will get him. Miami may have made a mistake benching him. I can see him wanting to go to team where he can be the biggest star. I can also see Miami messing around and trying to get LeBron back and the Lakers swooping in.

naps
03-27-2016, 05:54 PM
To me it all depends on his postseason. If he shows up big time, he will have teams lined up on his door. If he folds, none will be touching him at his expected price.