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View Full Version : If Wolves get #1 pick, would you trade Lavine, Wiggins, and Simmons for AD?



IKnowHoops
03-17-2016, 01:07 AM
If the wolves get dumb lucky and get the #1 pick and take Ben Simmons in the draft, would you trade Lavine, Simmons, and Wiggins for AD if your the Twolves? If your New Orleans?

ImOnFire12
03-17-2016, 02:21 AM
I could see the wolves saying no and the pelicans saying yes. Davis has been a bit of a dissapointment this season with his injuries and perfmorajce compared to last year. If the wolves do end up getting the number 1 pick they should continue to build on what they have

Rubio
Lavine
Wiggins
Simmons
KAT

I think people will be surprised on how good of a team they'll be in the next 2 years. A core of Wiggins,Lavine, Kat, Jones, Muhammed and their top 10 pick is a nice start. All they need is a better starting PG.

ImOnFire12
03-17-2016, 02:24 AM
What I meant to say is a pg that could shoot. Rubio is a horrendous shooter. Rubio should get traded on draft night. Luckly for the wolves there are a lot of avaiable pgs. They should go after Teague/DS

unleashthebeast
03-17-2016, 03:01 AM
Lol no the Wolves arent trading their entire core outside of KAT. Lavine-Wiggins-Simmons-KAT is by far the best young core in the league if they get that pick. ****, wherever they pick they're gonna add another good young piece to a tremendous core.

IKnowHoops
03-17-2016, 03:25 AM
What I meant to say is a pg that could shoot. Rubio is a horrendous shooter. Rubio should get traded on draft night. Luckly for the wolves there are a lot of avaiable pgs. They should go after Teague/DS

I agree with trading Rubio, but I think they should try to get a PG through the draft either this year or next year. This team is young and they should get a young talented PG that can grow with he team. In a perfect world the Wolves would be able to get #1 pick and draft Ben Simmons, and then trade Rubio for a pick that would net them Kris Dunn.

Quinnsanity
03-17-2016, 03:36 AM
Can we also point that Minny's offense dies when Rubio isn't on the court? I completely get bashing him for not being able to shoot, but he's so good at literally everything else. Why can't we all get on Wiggins and LaVine for not shooting? Rubio can survive without shooting. I'm not sure those guys can.

Sadds The Gr8
03-17-2016, 03:45 AM
Can we also point that Minny's offense dies when Rubio isn't on the court? I completely get bashing him for not being able to shoot, but he's so good at literally everything else. Why can't we all get on Wiggins and LaVine for not shooting? Rubio can survive without shooting. I'm not sure those guys can.

yea. The bashing of his game has gone overboard to the point that he's underrated.

IKnowHoops
03-17-2016, 04:00 AM
Can we also point that Minny's offense dies when Rubio isn't on the court? I completely get bashing him for not being able to shoot, but he's so good at literally everything else. Why can't we all get on Wiggins and LaVine for not shooting? Rubio can survive without shooting. I'm not sure those guys can.

I know but shooting to me is very important. And even besides shooting, he's not that good at driving and finishing at the rim. He's not a threat to score. And just as big of a factor is his age. He's 26 while everyone else is 20. By the time our guys are good enough to win, Rubio will be on the decline. Id rather draft a 20 year old scoring PG who can dish as well like Kris Dunn. Heck I would probably try Bobby Heild at PG. Dude can stroke the 3 nasty.

IKnowHoops
03-17-2016, 04:02 AM
yea. The bashing of his game has gone overboard to the point that he's underrated.

I agree, hopefully they can trade him and get a good return while he is at the highest point he's ever been value wise...since he's been in the NBA

Gander13SM
03-17-2016, 04:38 AM
I could see the wolves saying no and the pelicans saying yes. Davis has been a bit of a dissapointment this season with his injuries and perfmorajce compared to last year. If the wolves do end up getting the number 1 pick they should continue to build on what they have

Rubio
Lavine
Wiggins
Simmons
KAT

I think people will be surprised on how good of a team they'll be in the next 2 years. A core of Wiggins,Lavine, Kat, Jones, Muhammed and their top 10 pick is a nice start. All they need is a better starting PG.

uhh... what?

Davis has had injuries this year, that's the only disappointing thing about his season as an individual.

He's averaging 24, 10 and 2. Identical to last year aside from the blocks which are down. And his clutch stats are great. Pretty sure he's now top 20 in the all time list for most points in a single game after that 59pt performance this year. The only other players to even come close to that (since total rebounds were recorded) are Chris Webber with 51 and 26. And Shaq in 2000 with 61 and 23. Davis had a higher FG% and FT% than both of those guys for those games.

The difference is he's played 10 fewer games. The guys never played 70 games in a season though let alone 82. People need to accept that's who he is. A 70 game season is a best case scenario from him.

HouRealCoach
03-17-2016, 04:45 AM
No on both sides... KAT, Wiggins, Lavine, Dieng, and Ben Simmons can end up being a nightmare

mngopher35
03-17-2016, 04:59 AM
Not the first or second pick but outside of that I would likely do the trade. Towns and AD would be such a great combo imo. With the way the league is headed big men who can defend/rebound/shoot/handle are becoming more important and having two elite ones? Definitely worth consideration, it's essentially playing small ball without actually going small.

mudvayne387
03-17-2016, 07:33 AM
No way in hell.

This T-Wolves team has the makings of something great. Truthfully I take Ingram over Simmons if I'm Minnesota and have the 1st pick anyways .

dnl123
03-17-2016, 07:55 AM
As a Wolves fan I have to play devil's advocate here. AD is the best player out of this bunch by a long shot. Wiggins will probably never be as good as AD in my opinion. If the Wolves didn't have to give up KAT in a deal for AD I would absolutely be willing to hear a trade for AD, but I can't imagine the Pelicans are readily trying to move him. AD is only 23 years old. I can't imagine the one two punch KAT and AD would be defensively.

North Yorker
03-17-2016, 08:26 AM
If the Wolves got a top 2 pick in the lotto, I'd offer up a package for Paul George.

Top 2 pick+ Lavine+ Dieng. Indy would probably hold out for Wiggins but I'm not sure they would get a better package than that for PG.

Alayla
03-17-2016, 10:08 AM
Yes and anyone saying no is being impossible Simmons is effectively an unknown Lavine may never figure it out and AD is immeasurably better than Wiggins.
Having a frontcourt of KAT and AD would instantly stop all this direction of the league bullcrap I think people are getting way to down on bigs overall at this point the injuries are a bit worrying but when you have a top 5 player and a player with top 5 potential on your roster you make it work especially if the older of the 2 is 23.

beasted86
03-17-2016, 11:39 AM
yea. The bashing of his game has gone overboard to the point that he's underrated.

Can't be paid $60M to chuck bricks and miss layups. He deserves whatever criticism.

Sadds The Gr8
03-17-2016, 11:43 AM
Can't be paid $60M to chuck bricks and miss layups. He deserves whatever criticism.
His contract is pretty average with the current cap. I've come to hate guards who can't shoot also but Rubio is different. He's a top defender (unlike rondo) and a top passer (unlike Payton) at the position. I don't think you can win titles with him but I definitely think you can win games. He makes teammates better even tho he's flawed. I appreciate his game more now.

beasted86
03-17-2016, 11:49 AM
His contract is pretty average with the current cap. I've come to hate guards who can't shoot also but Rubio is different. He's a top defender (unlike rondo) and a top passer (unlike Payton) at the position. I don't think you can win titles with him but I definitely think you can win games. He makes teammates better even tho he's flawed. I appreciate his game more now.

It's not like I'm saying he's the worst player in the NBA or anything like that, but for me he's clearly not a starting PG. If he is, then he ranks among the bottom 10. I don't want to pay that guy double digit millions if I'm a smart GM.

He's probably best suited coming off the bench like he was used in Spain, and being paid like a bench player instead.

Hawkeye15
03-17-2016, 12:05 PM
It's not like I'm saying he's the worst player in the NBA or anything like that, but for me he's clearly not a starting PG. If he is, then he ranks among the bottom 10. I don't want to pay that guy double digit millions if I'm a smart GM.

He's probably best suited coming off the bench like he was used in Spain, and being paid like a bench player instead.

problem with your statement is, every team he has ever been on better with him on the floor. Literally every one. No matter the makeup. He is elite at rebounding, defense, and distributing. He is 5th in real +/- in the NBA, and first in defensive +/- by a mile.

The thing with Rubio is, he has either gotten hurt, or played overseas, instead of consistently working on his jumper. Like now for instance, he is in a 10-15 game period (18-45 from three) where his shot looks great. But, will that ever stay? That has been the problem forever.

But he absolutely isn't a bottom 10 PG, nor should he come off the bench. However, you had better construct the right team around him if you plan to win multiple playoff series at some point.

I have come full circle on Rubio. I now think he is vastly underrated by most.

Sadds The Gr8
03-17-2016, 12:16 PM
problem with your statement is, every team he has ever been on better with him on the floor. Literally every one. No matter the makeup. He is elite at rebounding, defense, and distributing. He is 5th in real +/- in the NBA, and first in defensive +/- by a mile.

The thing with Rubio is, he has either gotten hurt, or played overseas, instead of consistently working on his jumper. Like now for instance, he is in a 10-15 game period (18-45 from three) where his shot looks great. But, will that ever stay? That has been the problem forever.

But he absolutely isn't a bottom 10 PG, nor should he come off the bench. However, you had better construct the right team around him if you plan to win multiple playoff series at some point.

I have come full circle on Rubio. I now think he is vastly underrated by most.
Yea he's definitely one of the most underrated players in the league. He gets treated like a bum when he's clearly a plus player.

It's not like I'm saying he's the worst player in the NBA or anything like that, but for me he's clearly not a starting PG. If he is, then he ranks among the bottom 10. I don't want to pay that guy double digit millions if I'm a smart GM.

He's probably best suited coming off the bench like he was used in Spain, and being paid like a bench player instead.
He's definitely not a bench player. There are probably 15-18 pg's better but it depends on who's surrounding him. I think he'd be awesome on a team like Dallas. People act like Rubio is some sort of scrub or something. Guess that's what bad shooting and being associated with awful teams does.

I was way down on him the last 2 years but this year I have respected his game.

Scoots
03-17-2016, 12:27 PM
Yes and anyone saying no is being impossible Simmons is effectively an unknown Lavine may never figure it out and AD is immeasurably better than Wiggins.
Having a frontcourt of KAT and AD would instantly stop all this direction of the league bullcrap I think people are getting way to down on bigs overall at this point the injuries are a bit worrying but when you have a top 5 player and a player with top 5 potential on your roster you make it work especially if the older of the 2 is 23.

I agree with you ... too bad OKC hasn't been able to make that formula work.

IKnowHoops
03-17-2016, 02:11 PM
I agree with you ... too bad OKC hasn't been able to make that formula work.

I think they made it work, but then f'ed it up when they traded away Harden and Green. MN I think will have a team as good as OKC in about 3-4 more years. They just have to keep it together.

I have no doubt that if OKC would of kept it together, they would of won a title.

Bostonjorge
03-17-2016, 02:12 PM
That's way to much to trade for any player. Simmons goes to minny and everyone has a new favorite team. Missing piece is Phil Jackson. Phill will have his SG scorer in Wiggins, his point forward in Simmons and his great passing big in towns.

I want Simmons on my team of course but Minny is a perfect place for Simmons. Puts another team with start power in the championship race.

IKnowHoops
03-17-2016, 02:20 PM
If the Wolves got a top 2 pick in the lotto, I'd offer up a package for Paul George.

Top 2 pick+ Lavine+ Dieng. Indy would probably hold out for Wiggins but I'm not sure they would get a better package than that for PG.

Again, to me its about age. I want my stars the same age...Lavine, Wiggins, Simmons, Towns, etc. I even want half of my roll players to be young like my stars. I don't care what age the other half of my roll players and glue guys are.

But I don't want to pay 25 million for Paul George at this point. All that's going to do is stop my ability to build because of his salary and ****** the growth of my young prospects.

The wolves have the best team for there age group right now. It will stay that way if we keep this group together all the way to a championship in about 5 years. I don't want to mix in win now guys, with guys that aren't read to win. It will just bring us to a place where we are just going to be a playoff team that cant get over the hump because by the time young guys get good, then the Paul Georges will be on the decline. We need a bunch of great players in there primes all hitting at the same time to win rings.

europagnpilgrim
03-17-2016, 02:35 PM
i would package something to try and entice the Pelicans but not that type of package seeing AD injury history early in his career, but I would try and shake up something because the Wolves are in the same boat of the old clippers when they were piling on high lottery after high lottery draft picks and also like the Celtics before the KG and R Allen moves

they have too much youth and need a ripe all/super star type to go with AD also if they were to acquire him somehow, I don't see it since they just gave him a super max deal but you never know

Kyben36
03-17-2016, 02:43 PM
2 #1 overall picks plus lavine, i say no. from the timberwolves point of view. truthfully, Wiggins is exactly what they need with the A game of Towns, a wing defender +.

the First overall pick could go in any number of directions.

Aleksandar
03-17-2016, 04:24 PM
I would say yes, also bring Calipari to coach Towns/Davis :)

IKnowHoops
03-17-2016, 05:23 PM
i would package something to try and entice the Pelicans but not that type of package seeing AD injury history early in his career, but I would try and shake up something because the Wolves are in the same boat of the old clippers when they were piling on high lottery after high lottery draft picks and also like the Celtics before the KG and R Allen moves
they have too much youth and need a ripe all/super star type to go with AD also if they were to acquire him somehow, I don't see it since they just gave him a super max deal but you never know


I disagree. I think they are in the same position as OKC when they were winning less than 30 games a season with Westbrook and Durant on the squad. The Celtics and Clippers had no potential young all-stars. Towns is a beast. Wiggins and Lavine are improving and have way more upside than anyone the Clippers or Celtics had. Who was the best Clipper then, Candyman? Maggette? I'll take Wiggins and Lavine right now over both those dudes in there prime. Candyman had a good season or two but then went right to crap. I think Wiggins is definitely better than Maggette ever was right now, and Lavine is trending that way. Celtics had Big Al who was pretty good, but I like both Wiggins and Lavine to surpass him as players.

Lavine and Wiggins are 2 of the top 5 athletes in the NBA. I know athletic ability is not everything but it is huge in regards to potential and both are trending upwards. I like both very much. Both of them have Tmac/Westbrook potential and based on Wolves history, I'm just happy to have that hope!!! And I want to let them play out. I don't want to trade them, give up on them. I want to ride or die with them. Part of me doesn't want them to be good to quick because I would love a great pick this year and next year.

beasted86
03-17-2016, 05:26 PM
problem with your statement is, every team he has ever been on better with him on the floor. Literally every one. No matter the makeup. He is elite at rebounding, defense, and distributing. He is 5th in real +/- in the NBA, and first in defensive +/- by a mile.

The thing with Rubio is, he has either gotten hurt, or played overseas, instead of consistently working on his jumper. Like now for instance, he is in a 10-15 game period (18-45 from three) where his shot looks great. But, will that ever stay? That has been the problem forever.

But he absolutely isn't a bottom 10 PG, nor should he come off the bench. However, you had better construct the right team around him if you plan to win multiple playoff series at some point.

I have come full circle on Rubio. I now think he is vastly underrated by most.

Needing a team custom fit to him inherently speaks to his lack of starter value.

Curry, Westbrook, Paul, Irving, Lilliard, Wall, Lowry, Parker, Teague, Thomas, Kemba, Jackson, Conley, Dragić, Knight/Bledsoe, Rondo, Holiday are comfortably better to me. Russell and Mudiay are inherently better than him because they are 19 year old rookies.

So maybe not exactly 20, and even if you debate 1 or 2 names, way too close to the bottom 1/3rd of PGs. I'm not starting him shooting 35% every season on a team I expect to make the playoffs, he can help us off the bench.

Hawkeye15
03-17-2016, 05:44 PM
Needing a team custom fit to him inherently speaks to his lack of starter value.

Curry, Westbrook, Paul, Irving, Lilliard, Wall, Lowry, Parker, Teague, Thomas, Kemba, Jackson, Conley, Dragić, Knight/Bledsoe, Rondo, Holiday are comfortably better to me. Russell and Mudiay are inherently better than him because they are 19 year old rookies.

So maybe not exactly 20, and even if you debate 1 or 2 names, way too close to the bottom 1/3rd of PGs. I'm not starting him shooting 35% every season on a team I expect to make the playoffs, he can help us off the bench.

no, it speaks to the fact that he will never be elite, even though he is elite as a few phases of the game is all.

I am also curious how he handles a 7 game series in which he is game planned to force him to score.

I don't agree with your list of PG's better than him. At all. But, you are becoming the consensus, which is why I say he is now underrated. Without improving his scoring, he does set a limit on his impact. But he is so good defensively, rebounding the ball, and running an offense (obviously his passing is second to none), that he still has a positive impact on the floor since day 1 and counting.

beasted86
03-17-2016, 05:49 PM
no, it speaks to the fact that he will never be elite, even though he is elite as a few phases of the game is all.

I am also curious how he handles a 7 game series in which he is game planned to force him to score.

I don't agree with your list of PG's better than him. At all. But, you are becoming the consensus, which is why I say he is now underrated. Without improving his scoring, he does set a limit on his impact. But he is so good defensively, rebounding the ball, and running an offense (obviously his passing is second to none), that he still has a positive impact on the floor since day 1 and counting.

Out of curiosity, which straight up trade from the list above makes the team better getting Rubio in the deal?

As is, no tweaking, just a player swap.

CHANGO
03-17-2016, 06:07 PM
HELL NAW. You are basically trading your core for one piece, Wolves already have Dieng as a PF/C.

IKnowHoops
03-17-2016, 08:11 PM
HELL NAW. You are basically trading your core for one piece, Wolves already have Dieng as a PF/C.

I agree with ya. I want the wolves to trade Rubio and Dieng for draft picks. From what Hawk was saying, Wolves probably aren't going to want to try and match what Dieng is going to get on the open market when he becomes a free agent.

I have no problem trading Rubio and Dieng and taking a step back in the win column if it results in top five picks over the next two seasons. Add that to the Wolves own top five picks and that is 4 top five picks during the next two seasons(just let me dream yall).

Even if it took both Rubio and Dieng to get one pick(top 1 or 2) I'd be all for it.

I don't mind loosing right now at all.

Raps08-09 Champ
03-17-2016, 08:24 PM
Lol no.

Mave1002
03-18-2016, 12:15 AM
I could see the wolves saying no and the pelicans saying yes. Davis has been a bit of a dissapointment this season with his injuries and perfmorajce compared to last year. If the wolves do end up getting the number 1 pick they should continue to build on what they have

Rubio
Lavine
Wiggins
Simmons
KAT

I think people will be surprised on how good of a team they'll be in the next 2 years. A core of Wiggins,Lavine, Kat, Jones, Muhammed and their top 10 pick is a nice start. All they need is a better starting PG.

CONLEY
Lavine
Wiggins
Simmons
KAT

A trade of #1 for Clarkson/Randle should be also considered.

Clarkson
Lavine
Wiggins
Randle
Kat

Russell/Simmons + FA help for the Lakers

IKnowHoops
03-18-2016, 01:24 AM
CONLEY
Lavine
Wiggins
Simmons
KAT

A trade of #1 for Clarkson/Randle should be also considered.

Clarkson
Lavine
Wiggins
Randle
Kat

Russell/Simmons + FA help for the Lakers

WHAT? The wolves would not trade simmons for any Laker player(s).

Even the dumbest idiot wouldn't do that. Clarkson aint no PG anyway. Thats a complete s--- trade.

mngopher35
03-18-2016, 01:56 AM
Out of curiosity, which straight up trade from the list above makes the team better getting Rubio in the deal?

As is, no tweaking, just a player swap.

I will just say that we wouldn't make the trade for Parker/Knight/Teague/Rondo/Dragic at the very least and you could add in Jrue as well (we have volume scoring taken care of with Lavine/Wiggins/Towns). He is better than those guys for any teams that don't strictly have a need for scoring and could use a distibutor/defense (parker on the list for age). Kings/Hawks/PHX (not Bledsoe but for Knight) likely get better with Rubio.

He is arguably the best floor general/passer and defender of the bunch. Outside of Rondo he is the best rebounder as well. I haven't looked at the on/off for everyone but he is at +10.4 which is highest on the Wolves for major players and likely of all the pg's mentioned (we get worse both offensively and defensively). He is 5th in RPM among all pg's and the next closest of those mentioned is Dragic at 13 then Jrue at 18. While his shooting is bad he is hitting the 3 ball at a similar percentage as Dragic (.6 shots less per game) and Jrue (1.6 less shots per game) and his overall scoring efficiency is in their range although on lesser volume. Overall offensive efficiency he is clearly above everyone mentioned (outside Parker at 111 ORTG, Rubio 112).

Basically what Hawk said about Rubio being underrated by the general fan is right at this point, especially for us. That is why I find it very unlikely we end up trading him because his value to us will be higher than other teams offers. I wouldn't count him out as a starting pg at all but you do need to make sure you have scoring/shooting around him which is why he will never be elite in pg rankings. Rubio has pretty much always made his teams better when he is on the floor despite that limitation.

PurpleJesus
03-18-2016, 03:07 AM
If the Wolves were looking to make a big move like this, I would prefer for it to be someone who would compliment KAT, rather than take away from him. KAT and Davis inside is nice on an all star team, but maybe not so much on an NBA team. Lavine and Wiggins + a top 3 pick sounds better to surround KAT with, rather than another high usage interior player.

Gander13SM
03-18-2016, 04:16 AM
Needing a team custom fit to him inherently speaks to his lack of starter value.

Curry, Westbrook, Paul, Irving, Lilliard, Wall, Lowry, Parker, Teague, Thomas, Kemba, Jackson, Conley, Dragić, Knight/Bledsoe, Rondo, Holiday are comfortably better to me. Russell and Mudiay are inherently better than him because they are 19 year old rookies.

So maybe not exactly 20, and even if you debate 1 or 2 names, way too close to the bottom 1/3rd of PGs. I'm not starting him shooting 35% every season on a team I expect to make the playoffs, he can help us off the bench.

1. He's a better defender than anyone on that list not named Lowry, Parker or Conley.

2. He's a better passer than every other player on that list. All of them. His court vision is on par with anyone on that list as well.

3. He's as good a rebounder as anyone on that list.


Also, Rondo, Westbrook, Irving, Kemba, Wall, Dragic and Teague are perfect examples of players who need the "right team" around them to maximise their talent. It's not just Rubio.

For example. Rubio on the Hawks this year > Teague. But Teague with Minnesota? Yuck.

And the Dragic/Wade experiment isn't exactly working out, you criticise Rubios contract when Miami paid Dragic $85 million to average 12 and 4? That's Darren Collison numbers, and he's being paid what? 15 million over three years? Off the bench?

Your bias is so obvious as soon as you put Dragic in there, he's overpaid way more than Rubio, rebounds worse, defends worse and isn't a fraction of the distributor Rubio is. Only thing he does better (much better) is scoring, purely because he's efficient.

Mave1002
03-18-2016, 06:23 AM
WHAT? The wolves would not trade simmons for any Laker player(s).

Even the dumbest idiot wouldn't do that. Clarkson aint no PG anyway. Thats a complete s--- trade.

Okay, I get that youknowhoops but then you speak like everything is set in stone. Memphis gave us one of the s------ trades in basketball history, (technically, the clips did, too) and it got us a couple of chips. People do forget easily.

We'll never know till then.

IKnowHoops
03-18-2016, 09:32 PM
Okay, I get that youknowhoops but then you speak like everything is set in stone. Memphis gave us one of the s------ trades in basketball history, (technically, the clips did, too) and it got us a couple of chips. People do forget easily.

We'll never know till then.

Your absolutely right. I don't know anything for sure. But the trade just sounded extra extra Sh---- to me and I spit my soda out all over my screen when I read it. So between cleaning up the mess and re-reading it, i was a lil mad

leafswin2011
03-18-2016, 11:16 PM
Can we also point that Minny's offense dies when Rubio isn't on the court? I completely get bashing him for not being able to shoot, but he's so good at literally everything else. Why can't we all get on Wiggins and LaVine for not shooting? Rubio can survive without shooting. I'm not sure those guys can.

Thats what I was thinking,when you have a bunch of good young players ESPECIALLY if they get Simmons wouldn't you rather a great defensive pg then a guy who would be taking shots away from the other guys.If Kat is shooting over 50% in the next few years I want to get him as many touches as possible,then having wiggins and simmons you want these guys getting the ball.

IKnowHoops
03-19-2016, 03:57 AM
Thats what I was thinking,when you have a bunch of good young players ESPECIALLY if they get Simmons wouldn't you rather a great defensive pg then a guy who would be taking shots away from the other guys.If Kat is shooting over 50% in the next few years I want to get him as many touches as possible,then having wiggins and simmons you want these guys getting the ball.

99.9% agree. I definitely want a pass first PG...like Chris Paul though. A guy that you can't leave open or he will drain on you. Having Rubio distribute is great for the offense. But when teams dont need to guard him allowing defenses to essentially play 5 on 4, then those players that are so good, won't be as effective. If Rubio could stroke, he would be great. But being so bad at shooting hurts our young players offense as well. I want the wolves to draft a pass first PG who can drain. I don't want Kyrie, I want a guy like Paul. Now I know Chris Paul's are just hanging around so I know spouting that off is obvious, but it ain't gonna happen. I don't mind letting guys audition though. Pass first...drain shots...I'd give Buddy Heild the chance.

MiamiBoy77
03-20-2016, 02:43 PM
If I were the wolves I would take Hield over Simmons.

There is just not enough spacing on the court if your lineup was Rubio, Lavine, Wiggins, Simmons, KAT

As sick as they'd be

IKnowHoops
03-20-2016, 03:28 PM
If I were the wolves I would take Hield over Simmons.

There is just not enough spacing on the court if your lineup was Rubio, Lavine, Wiggins, Simmons, KAT

As sick as they'd be

I really love Hield, but I can't co-sign that one. Right now that lineup is on the floor with Dieng instead of Simmons. Simmons would give more range than Dieng would, and much more versatility and playmaking. Plus Lavine is starting to become a pretty good 3 pt shooter. Kat has awesome range for a guy of his size. Also the end game (in my mind anyway) is to trade Rubio and Dieng for Picks and come up with that PG that can stroke from outside but is pass first.

Simmons has to much upside IMHO for me myself to pass up. What the wolves do, well they have been doing pretty well with young players lately. Now if the Wolves get the 5th or 6th pick and land either Dunn, Heild, or Skal, I will be extatic. If we have the opportunity to draft Simmons at the 1 or 2 and we select someone else, I will be pissed.

beasted86
03-20-2016, 03:39 PM
1. He's a better defender than anyone on that list not named Lowry, Parker or Conley.

2. He's a better passer than every other player on that list. All of them. His court vision is on par with anyone on that list as well.

3. He's as good a rebounder as anyone on that list.


Also, Rondo, Westbrook, Irving, Kemba, Wall, Dragic and Teague are perfect examples of players who need the "right team" around them to maximise their talent. It's not just Rubio.

For example. Rubio on the Hawks this year > Teague. But Teague with Minnesota? Yuck.

And the Dragic/Wade experiment isn't exactly working out, you criticise Rubios contract when Miami paid Dragic $85 million to average 12 and 4? That's Darren Collison numbers, and he's being paid what? 15 million over three years? Off the bench?

Your bias is so obvious as soon as you put Dragic in there, he's overpaid way more than Rubio, rebounds worse, defends worse and isn't a fraction of the distributor Rubio is. Only thing he does better (much better) is scoring, purely because he's efficient.

Dragic is averaging about 14/6/4 and is a way better player than Rubio via reputation. Personally speaking, Rubio traded for Dragic murders our chances at a playoff spot. Worst case scenario, the Wolves are no worse off with swapping Dragic and Rubio straight up on the current Wolves team. I feel this is just common sense consensus, but you can ask around if you care at all.

We're not talking about maximizing talent. Most players in the NBA need a certain group around them to maximize their talent. Most players in the NBA are system players at varying degrees. But we are talking about simply being a player than can hit better than 35% of their shots in a given season. If Rubio needs the perfect glove fit team for that to happen, he's not good enough to start.

On a somewhat related topic, I need to rant about something...
I honestly don't want to hear about defense from a point guard, because the PG position is the weakest its been defensively in a while. There isn't even 1 singular "shut down" point guard in the NBA, and it's been like that for a while. Furthermore on the topic of Rubio/Dragic, Goran has much better defensive numbers. I had hopes for Payton growing into the Tony Allen '08 of the PG position but he's failed to live up to my expectations. Conley, Beverley, Payton, Paul, Lowry, Rubio, Dellavedova, Bradley, Hill, Smart, Bledsoe, Chalmers, Joseph, Holiday, Richardson, etc... will all "harass" their way into getting 30+ dropped on their head on 50% plus FG% at least twice a month. No point guard in the NBA currently makes a big impact defensively night to night. Best you can hope for defensively from a PG nowadays is someone who is willing to fight over a screen so he doesn't leave his big man on an island. That's about as much impact as you are getting and a couple steals. Unless we are talking about the difference between Conley and Calderon it probably isn't worth bringing up.

IamAlwaysRight
03-20-2016, 03:55 PM
too much timberwolves talk on this board. As long as they have a trampstamp on the back of their jersey they will always suck