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Rocco007
03-12-2016, 08:02 PM
My unbiased opinion...
Minny has better athletes in their 3...for sure...
But the Lakers have the harder workers and the smarter players in their 3...
Lavine and Wiggins are what they are at this point ...Swag Bros are buzzing right now...No telling where this goes...IMO...

My money rides with the LA Kids for the next 5-10 years...
Intangibles...better suited to reach their potential and overachieve in LA's tradition as opposed to Minny's...Thoughts?
:smoking:

bgdreton
03-12-2016, 08:05 PM
Easily Min

Gander13SM
03-12-2016, 08:11 PM
Minnesota. Lakers don't have anyone even remotely close to KATs level or upside.

Wiggins is going to be every bit the scorer as anyone on that Laker squad.

LaVine is arguably already one of the most athletic guards of the last 10 years or so. I'm not sure on how he turns out yet though to be honest, I prefer him as a bench guy with Rubio running the floor.

CHANGO
03-12-2016, 08:12 PM
Minnesota by a mile, KAT is a legit future superstar top 5 player for sure, some people think Wiggins will be there too. Lavine is getting better with more playing time. They are a better fit and also better individual players.

Scoots
03-12-2016, 08:21 PM
Next 5 years? Give me the Warriors young core with Curry the oldest at 27, Thompson 26, Ezeli 26, Green 25, Barnes 23.

Or how about Utah with Gobert, Hayward, Favors, Hood, Burks, Exum, and Lyles all under 25, playing as a team and playing good D.

europagnpilgrim
03-12-2016, 08:21 PM
Randle already had a major injury his infant season but he is a nice player, nothing special
Clarkson came out of nowhere for the most part, streaky player, nothing special
Russell shouldn't even be in LA according to most pre draft, best player out of the group

Lavine is a slam dunk all star weekend phenom, streaky player
Towns is runaway ROY according to most, the best player of the bunch
Wiggins should of stayed to form a dynamic athletic defense tandem with Lebron, steal for Minny

with all that said the combo of Wiggins and Towns are better than those 3 in LA, Minny wins that for now and later

Gander13SM
03-12-2016, 08:39 PM
Next 5 years? Give me the Warriors young core with Curry the oldest at 27, Thompson 26, Ezeli 26, Green 25, Barnes 23.

Or how about Utah with Gobert, Hayward, Favors, Hood, Burks, Exum, and Lyles all under 25, playing as a team and playing good D.

Warriors are about to overpay Barnes who on a good day is an above average forward with a good ceiling but on most days is absolute garbage.

They're about to give a max contract to an alternate universe Jeff Green.

That young core is finished if that happens. Can't extend Curry with Dray,Klay,Barnes maxed out and Iguodala/Bogut being paid what they are.

Hello Charlotte.

odiz
03-12-2016, 08:51 PM
Warriors are about to overpay Barnes who on a good day is an above average forward with a good ceiling but on most days is absolute garbage.

They're about to give a max contract to an alternate universe Jeff Green.

That young core is finished if that happens. Can't extend Curry with Dray,Klay,Barnes maxed out and Iguodala/Bogut being paid what they are.

Hello Charlotte.

Curry's current contract runs through next season. The only 2 contracts on the books after that are Dray and Klays. Plenty of space to re-sign Curry, Ezeli and more. And I doubt Barnes gets re-signed anyway, he hasn't been playing great and management aren't too fond of him.

RLundi
03-12-2016, 08:55 PM
I'd pick Minnesota's but LA's has a lot to offer too. I'm unsure if the Wolves' core will be together for the next 5-10 years. I'd have more confidence in LA being able to keep everyone together since it's generally a more desirable location and franchise (no shade, Wolves fans).

But as far as raw talent and potential go, I'm not sure if any team's all-25-and-under core (like Philly, Orlando, LA, Portland, Milwaukee, Boston) rivals the T-Wolves'.

aman_13
03-12-2016, 08:56 PM
Minny.

5ass
03-12-2016, 09:12 PM
Wolves easily just because of Towns. Don't think Wiggins or Lavine will be anything special. Lakers aren't even second or third for me among young cores. There's a lot of nice young cores in the league.

jerellh528
03-12-2016, 09:16 PM
Minny is better, that's bout to change when we get Simmons or Ingram. LOL

Teeboy1487
03-12-2016, 09:24 PM
Minny's core is better no doubt. They have the best young core in the nba.

CHANGO
03-12-2016, 09:33 PM
I also forgot Dieng, he is a solid C.

Bruno
03-12-2016, 09:37 PM
Minny is better, that's bout to change when we get Simmons or Ingram. LOL

x2, were talking about Towns here.

but LAL will jump them if Ingram pans out and Russell becomes a special player.

Bruno
03-12-2016, 09:39 PM
I also forgot Dieng, he is a solid C.

Great player but he's older than Rubio by almost a year. he's a part of their mid-core, by age.

ewing
03-12-2016, 09:45 PM
Randle already had a major injury his infant season but he is a nice player, nothing special
Clarkson came out of nowhere for the most part, streaky player, nothing special
Russell shouldn't even be in LA according to most pre draft, best player out of the group

Lavine is a slam dunk all star weekend phenom, streaky player
Towns is runaway ROY according to most, the best player of the bunch
Wiggins should of stayed to form a dynamic athletic defense tandem with Lebron, steal for Minny

with all that said the combo of Wiggins and Towns are better than those 3 in LA, Minny wins that for now and later



I actually loved Randell in college and thought think he has the tools but i don't see him reaching his potential. When i have watched him he is constantly over dribbling, is often out of control, and he hasn't developed touch. Right Minn is definitely looking better.

ewing
03-12-2016, 09:46 PM
Next 5 years? Give me the Warriors young core with Curry the oldest at 27, Thompson 26, Ezeli 26, Green 25, Barnes 23.

Or how about Utah with Gobert, Hayward, Favors, Hood, Burks, Exum, and Lyles all under 25, playing as a team and playing good D.


yeah of course warriors are set up better for the next 5 years. That wasn't the question

Scoots
03-12-2016, 10:08 PM
yeah of course warriors are set up better for the next 5 years. That wasn't the question
I know ... Just reacting to the op's "next 5". :)

KAT is the best rookie so whatever team he's on is going to look great.

Aust
03-12-2016, 10:12 PM
TWolves.

Twolves - Bucks trios would be an interesting conversation.

Bostonjorge
03-12-2016, 10:31 PM
Minny for sure. I also like Wiggins over Towns. I'm not down on Towns at all I just think Wiggins is the best player on that team.

Kyben36
03-12-2016, 10:32 PM
Minnesota by a mile, and its not even close, one player in that list is what looks to me to be a future HOF, which is KAT, so he beats out anything the knicks currently have.

Wiggins can be a solid #2 in this league.

not sold on Lavin, he is too young, but still a good player


Lakers- Clarkson may not even be in that core, he and Russell would have a hard time playing together, and Randall, despite some promise, needs serious work on his right hand, the guy has none at all.

TrueFan420
03-12-2016, 10:50 PM
Minny and it's not close.

JLynn943
03-12-2016, 11:10 PM
Very easily Minnesota for reasons already mentioned numerous times.

Alayla
03-12-2016, 11:14 PM
When I saw this thread I knew it was made by a Lakers fan.
In no way is the core of LA anywhere near the core of Minny.
I know Lakers fans are accustomed to winning and expect everything to always go there way but come on now.

Raps18-19 Champ
03-12-2016, 11:33 PM
I hope Wolves get the #1 pick. Go get Simmons.

C- Towns
PF- Simmons
SF- Wiggins
SG- Lavine
PG- Rubio

Would be a fun team on the fast break with Rubio handling the ball.

jerellh528
03-12-2016, 11:52 PM
Why do ppl say Russell and clarkson can't play together wth lol. Am I missing something? I've watched every game this season and they seem to play together fine to me.

More-Than-Most
03-13-2016, 12:37 AM
The Wolves but its not as big of a gap as people are making it out to be... Russ has just as much if not more talent than Towns... Towns is more of a sure thing.... I am not a randle fan though and think he is never gonna be anything worth a damn... Id give the Edge to the wolves though because Wiggins even though i dont like how wiggins has progressed... He should be much better than he is esp with a guy like towns in the line up

basch152
03-13-2016, 12:42 AM
Pistons have a young core of drummond, kcp, harris, and johnson all 23 or younger and then jackson is only 25.

Still, minny is probably the best.

Two players that have top 5 potential.

Aust
03-13-2016, 01:09 AM
Why do ppl say Russell and clarkson can't play together wth lol. Am I missing something? I've watched every game this season and they seem to play together fine to me.

I don't get it either. Watching the games, I've seen them play better together as the season progresses.

GunFactor187
03-13-2016, 01:10 AM
I hope Wolves get the #1 pick. Go get Simmons.

C- Towns
PF- Simmons
SF- Wiggins
SG- Lavine
PG- Rubio

Would be a fun team on the fast break with Rubio handling the ball.

I'm hoping for this scenario myself.

shep33
03-13-2016, 01:42 AM
Minus core easily. Just because of KAT. I was high in Wiggy, but I dunno. He can't dribble or shoot.

ManningToTyree
03-13-2016, 01:46 AM
Minny because of Towns

DODGERS&LAKERS
03-13-2016, 02:22 AM
Whatever team Towns is on. But for the rest of the guys, Wiggins has not shown he is better than Randle, Russell, or even Clarkson. Clarkson has had the best stats after Towns above all these guys but he is also 22 last year and 23 this year. Those extra years really help. Randle is 15 pts 13 rebounds per 36 in his rookie year. I don't know Russell's numbers since the all star break but I'm pretty sure he has outplayed everyone except Towns during that span. I thought Lavine was just going to be another Gerald Green. Big leaper with no game. He has shown good improvement from his horrible year last year though. I would like to revisit this thread after the ping pong balls fall in June though.

IKnowHoops
03-13-2016, 02:28 AM
Would be so sick for MN to get Ben Simmons. Rubio should average 12 asst a game.

Rubio should be great for everyone development as he will put guy in scoring position often.

Keep him until either Tyus beats him out or the next Chris Paul/Steph/Kyrie comes out and trade him for a high pick...whichever happens first, either way trade for a high pick.

Monta is beast
03-13-2016, 02:30 AM
Why do ppl say Russell and clarkson can't play together wth lol. Am I missing something? I've watched every game this season and they seem to play together fine to me.

Because neitherare good outside shooters and need the ball to be effective. Eventually Clarkson is gonna have to go.

IBleedPurple
03-13-2016, 02:35 AM
Easily Wolves

DODGERS&LAKERS
03-13-2016, 02:42 AM
Because neitherare good outside shooters and need the ball to be effective. Eventually Clarkson is gonna have to go.

They are both shooting 36% from three. That's not sharp shooter but that's enough to spread the floor. Russell was shooting in the mid 20 for most the year. He's been shooting over 40% for over a month.

Monta is beast
03-13-2016, 02:49 AM
From the outside looking in clarkson should be used as a piece either to move up in the draft or to acquire a better player. It doesnt have to be this offseason, but i dont see them as a fit. Like i said they both need the ball to be effective. Maybe its cause i watch curry and klay and they fit like a glove so i guess i could be wrong just my oppinion on the situation. As for the op its min and not close at all. Randle could be a career bench player i havent seen anything that shows me he'll be a star, i think clarkson is a nice player but not an all star, russel is the only i see that could eventually turn into something special.

If im drafting between the two teams right now

KAT


1A Russel
1B Wiggins
Clarkson
Lavine
Randle

jerellh528
03-13-2016, 02:50 AM
Because neitherare good outside shooters and need the ball to be effective. Eventually Clarkson is gonna have to go.

They're actually both good outside shooters, post ASB Russell is shooting .463% from 3 and clarkson is shooting .403 from 3. Yeah clarkson isn't what you would call a pure shooter but he hits his shots.

In perspective klay is .387 and curry is .485 from 3 since the ASB.

Obviously no where close to as good as those two, but they're improving and can shoot.

Monta is beast
03-13-2016, 02:51 AM
Lavine might be ahead of clarkson too honestly

Monta is beast
03-13-2016, 02:53 AM
Those are sample sizes. Players get hot players get cold. I think russel will eventually be really good at shooting the three i think clarkson kind of is what he is tho

bolts4ever
03-13-2016, 02:53 AM
I think Minny has a higher ceiling for sure. But I do think Lakers core will be more successful.

Monta is beast
03-13-2016, 02:55 AM
How will lal be more successful. KAT looks like a once in a lifetime talent, kind of reminds me of kg, and he could be better. Wiggins if he can figure it out could easily be a #1 option. I really dont see how lal core compares i really dont

KingstonHawke
03-13-2016, 03:27 AM
Lakers, who I've been rooting for since Kobe showed up, are so stupid. They should've drafted Okafor. Him, Randle, and Clarkson could all be all stars together in the future.

As it stands, that MN 3some could be something special.

Jeffy25
03-13-2016, 06:04 AM
Min, this isn't close.

naps
03-13-2016, 06:20 AM
Lol. Russell played couple of big games and already this? Randle and Clarkson are not gonna be stars for sure. Their ceiling is role players. On the other hand, KAT and Wiggins both have top 5 potentials. This is beyond crazy to think it's even close. They are other young cores I would rather have over the Lakers core.

KnicksorBust
03-13-2016, 07:29 AM
Next 5 years? Give me the Warriors young core with Curry the oldest at 27, Thompson 26, Ezeli 26, Green 25, Barnes 23.

Or how about Utah with Gobert, Hayward, Favors, Hood, Burks, Exum, and Lyles all under 25, playing as a team and playing good D.

Is Scoots trolling???

bolts4ever
03-13-2016, 08:11 AM
How will lal be more successful. KAT looks like a once in a lifetime talent, kind of reminds me of kg, and he could be better. Wiggins if he can figure it out could easily be a #1 option. I really dont see how lal core compares i really dont

1. Lakers Wil have an easier time rebuilding with their core through FA.

2.I see a different drive in the Lakers core than with Minny an external hunger that's evident when you watch them play. I feel LAL core is more likely to reach their ceilings than Minny. Just an opinion.

DanG
03-13-2016, 09:07 AM
Minny because of KAT, but these are the two best young cores for sure.

Top players right now:

1. KAT
2. Wiggins
3. Clarkson
4. Russell
5. Randle
6. LaVine

KAT and Wiggins are guaranteed All-Stars in my opinion, but Russell-Clarkson-Randle all have the potential to become one too.

R. Johnson#3
03-13-2016, 09:52 AM
Karl Anthony Towns is going to be the best big man and one of the best players in the league for years to come. His game is so diverse already. There's no telling how great he will be. The fact that he has two athletic freaks with game beside him is exciting as hell.

Giannis94
03-13-2016, 09:59 AM
Bucks!

Teeboy1487
03-13-2016, 10:48 AM
When I saw this thread I knew it was made by a Lakers fan.
In no way is the core of LA anywhere near the core of Minny.
I know Lakers fans are accustomed to winning and expect everything to always go there way but come on now. One overzealous Laker fan does not represent all of us. A matter of fact, most of us in this thread have said Minny. Besides, the OP is known for terrible threads.

Teeboy1487
03-13-2016, 11:03 AM
This is why I rarely post here anymore. Too many posters with ****ing agendas and can't be objective to save their life. Such a ****** site now.

mike_noodles
03-13-2016, 11:47 AM
My unbiased opinion...
Minny has better athletes in their 3...for sure...
But the Lakers have the harder workers and the smarter players in their 3...
Lavine and Wiggins are what they are at this point ...Swag Bros are buzzing right now...No telling where this goes...IMO...

My money rides with the LA Kids for the next 5-10 years...
Intangibles...better suited to reach their potential and overachieve in LA's tradition as opposed to Minny's...Thoughts?
:smoking:

Your unbiased opinion is very biased. Wiggins is what he is? That is laughable. Were any great players fully developed in their 2nd season at 21 years of age, no, no they weren't. I'll take Minny's core in a heartbeat even if you don't include Lavine over the entire Lakers team.

Giannis94
03-13-2016, 12:11 PM
Middleton/Jabari/Giannis is definitley better than the Lakers trio

PurpleJesus
03-13-2016, 12:48 PM
My unbiased opinion...
Minny has better athletes in their 3...for sure...
But the Lakers have the harder workers and the smarter players in their 3...
Lavine and Wiggins are what they are at this point ...Swag Bros are buzzing right now...No telling where this goes...IMO...

My money rides with the LA Kids for the next 5-10 years...
Intangibles...better suited to reach their potential and overachieve in LA's tradition as opposed to Minny's...Thoughts?
:smoking:

Harder workers by who's estimation? KAT and Lavine are absolute gym rats. KAT has the mentality and drive to be one of the greats. His mentality and intensity is on par with KG in his early years.

Raps18-19 Champ
03-13-2016, 12:55 PM
I lolled at some of the Wiggins comments.

jerellh528
03-13-2016, 01:21 PM
x2, were talking about Towns here.

but LAL will jump them if Ingram pans out and Russell becomes a special player.

Yeah it's obviously minny at this point, although I would've like to see how the lakers youngins played all year with free range of the team like minny's have been able to. Our young guys have had to overcome The Kobe FWT and Byron Scott's "coaching" lol. They've looked really good lately though

NFLNBA
03-13-2016, 01:26 PM
Right now Minny.

Towns>>Randle
Wiggins>Clarkson
Lavine<<Russ

Towns is already a borderline star while Randle is a double double machine but out of control, small, and ZERO shot. Clarkson you can call a small poor mans Derozan. Russ is the only one who tips scales in favor of LA. He has shown a lot last 20 games. He is averaging 20 pts last 12. He seems to be more of a SG though IMO.

NOW.....when you consider Nance and future of Simmons or Ingram they would then have better young core.

So as of now the Wolves, by next year, we could all be saying Lakers

Russ
Clarkson
Ingram or Simmons
Randle
Nance

Raps18-19 Champ
03-13-2016, 01:30 PM
Right now

1. KAT
2. Wiggins
3. Russell
4. Clarkson
5. Randle
6. Lavine

Potential

1. KAT
2. Wiggins
3. Clarkson
4. Russell
5. Randle
6. Lavine

I can't see how this is close because even if Lakers draft Simmons, they'll have KAT to match a similar production. And while Russell/Clarkson have been playing good, Wiggins has a much better chance to be an All star type player than they will.

NFLNBA
03-13-2016, 01:48 PM
Right now

1. KAT
2. Wiggins
3. Russell
4. Clarkson
5. Randle
6. Lavine

Potential

1. KAT
2. Wiggins
3. Clarkson
4. Russell
5. Randle
6. Lavine

I can't see how this is close because even if Lakers draft Simmons, they'll have KAT to match a similar production. And while Russell/Clarkson have been playing good, Wiggins has a much better chance to be an All star type player than they will.

Potential i see as

KAT - Wolves
Russ - Lakers
Wiggins - Wolves
Randle - Lakers
Clarkson - Lakers
LaVine - Wolves


Im not sure how you think the addition of Simmons or Ingram doesnt tip scales with Nance as well. Lakers would have 5 young studs to Wolves 3. Russ,Clark,Simmons/Ingram,Randle, Nance to KAT, Wiggs, LaVine

Simmons is one of most sought after prospect since Lebron and Ingram gets Durrant comparisons.

Raps18-19 Champ
03-13-2016, 01:56 PM
Potential i see as

KAT - Wolves
Russ - Lakers
Wiggins - Wolves
Randle - Lakers
Clarkson - Lakers
LaVine - Wolves


Im not sure how you think the addition of Simmons or Ingram doesnt tip scales with Nance as well. Lakers would have 5 young studs to Wolves 3. Russ,Clark,Simmons/Ingram,Randle, Nance to KAT, Wiggs, LaVine

Simmons is one of most sought after prospect since Lebron and Ingram gets Durrant comparisons.

Someone like Nance isn't going to tip the scales. Not even close. Wolves have a top 5 pick as well this year to balance it to out with Ingram/Russell/Clarkson/Randle vs KAT/Wiggins/Lavine/Heild(or Bender/Murray/Dunn/etc).

Ingram/Simmons and KAT are destined for superstardom most likely so it's (almost) a wash. Wiggins is the one to tip the scales because he has more star potential the remaining guys. Russell has star potential but Randle/Clarkson/Lavine I wouldn't bet on being a star. Those 3 can be good productive players but for a young core, the higher star potential, the better.

DanG
03-13-2016, 02:20 PM
Randle is being underrated. He is averaging 12/10 in his rookie year in 28 Mpg. All he needs is a mid-range shot and you have 15/10 (at the very least) guaranteed in the future. He is actually a very good passer for his size too, but he hasn't gotten a chance to really show it since the Lakers lack talent and an offensive system.

jerellh528
03-13-2016, 02:30 PM
Randle is being underrated. He is averaging 12/10 in his rookie year in 28 Mpg. All he needs is a mid-range shot and you have 15/10 (at the very least) guaranteed in the future. He is actually a very good passer for his size too, but he hasn't gotten a chance to really show it since the Lakers lack talent and an offensive system.

He'll do that in his sleep. Since the all star break he's been averaging 15/11 and no where close to a finished product.

mngopher35
03-13-2016, 02:32 PM
Maybe I am missing something but why does Clarkson have more potential than Lavine? Lavine is almost 3 years younger and made a nice improvement this season compared to last (despite Mitchell forcing him into pg role early on) while Clarksons play has actually dropped off some statistically. Now part of that is Clarkson not having the ball as much but outside of the assists dropping per 36 he also has been less efficient overall (drop 3 pts in ortg). Now Clarkson has improved the 3 ball which is nice but he hasn't improved much overall from last season like Lavine did and is also older. Lavine was always considered raw but extremely athletic/talented so with his bump in play from last season I just don't get why he isn't up there when talking about potential.

I think Towns is the clear best right now of the group with Wiggins/Russell in the next tier. After that you could make an argument for any of the 3 but statistically right now Randle is the worst (look at efficiency and advanced statistics, great rebounder but has a long way to go outside of that) and when using potential I am not sure why Clarkson would be over Lavine given what I mentioned above. I actually liked Randle coming in so I can agree with saying he has more potential than Lavine.

Adding in Simmons/Ingram for LAL and Bender/Murray/Hield for us would help even it out a bit but I don't think any of the prospects will have the impact/potential of Towns this year (it's pretty rare a rookie does). I wouldn't trade Towns+Wiggins for Russell, their pick, and Clarkson even if it was top 2. Add in Lavine+our pick compared to Randle wouldn't sway me either.

Chronz
03-13-2016, 02:51 PM
Minny for sure. I also like Wiggins over Towns. I'm not down on Towns at all I just think Wiggins is the best player on that team.

You cant be that blind.

Scoots
03-13-2016, 03:10 PM
The logic that a future draft pick to the Lakers should make a difference baffles me. There is some reason to believe the Wolves will get a better draft pick than the Lakers.

In general the Lakers talent projection is pretty extreme in this thread.

andy2518
03-13-2016, 03:16 PM
KAT is an absolute beast. I think if Russell can keep this up or even get better than we can have this debate.

IKnowHoops
03-13-2016, 03:25 PM
Potentially Lavine could be better than any laker. He's way more athletic than any Laker and is still super young.

Scoots
03-13-2016, 03:44 PM
Potentially Lavine could be better than any laker. He's way more athletic than any Laker and is still super young.

I always see this game of his as a rookie when I think of what he could become: http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201504110GSW.html

MonroeFAN
03-13-2016, 03:51 PM
I would take KAT and Wiggins over all 3 of the Laker players and whoever they draft in the first round this season (if they have a pick), plus maybe their pick next year.

This isn't even close IMO.

MonroeFAN
03-13-2016, 03:59 PM
Whatever team Towns is on. But for the rest of the guys, Wiggins has not shown he is better than Randle, Russell, or even Clarkson.

Not a single one of you called this nonsense out?

This is the biggest load I've ever heard.

Bostonjorge
03-13-2016, 04:06 PM
You cant be that blind.
Wiggins has put up some stronger single games. He's shown he can finish over anyone. Elite finisher around the rim. Always guards the top wing players and never had any veteran wing to mentor him. His deep ball needs work but I can see him getting into the top 15-10 in scoring next season.

Towns has the best big man teacher ever in KG. Towns has been consistent playing at a high level for sure. Shooting, rebounding and defending. He is a all around big man but he also plays off of Wiggins. For me all towns is missing is that go to scorer mentality but it's only been 1 season.

Raps18-19 Champ
03-13-2016, 04:07 PM
Would those same people here really not trade Clarkson and/or Russell for Wiggins?

Ball_Out
03-13-2016, 04:18 PM
Anything not in favor of the Lakers is my choice

Ball_Out
03-13-2016, 04:19 PM
Would those same people here really not trade Clarkson and/or Russell for Wiggins?
Lmao. HELL NO

Teeboy1487
03-13-2016, 04:47 PM
Right now

1. KAT
2. Wiggins
3. Russell
4. Clarkson
5. Randle
6. Lavine

Potential

1. KAT
2. Wiggins
3. Clarkson
4. Russell
5. Randle
6. Lavine

I can't see how this is close because even if Lakers draft Simmons, they'll have KAT to match a similar production. And while Russell/Clarkson have been playing good, Wiggins has a much better chance to be an All star type player than they will. I think Russell has more potential than Clarkson but other than that I tend to agree. The potential of KAT and Wiggins is huge though. I just don't understand this comparison (Rocco threads always confuse me). Wiggins and KAT were the last two number 1 overall picks and most likely the last two ROTY. It's not even close though. However, I do love our young core.

Raps18-19 Champ
03-13-2016, 05:01 PM
I think Russell has more potential than Clarkson but other than that I tend to agree. The potential of KAT and Wiggins is huge though. I just don't understand this comparison (Rocco threads always confuse me). Wiggins and KAT were the last two number 1 overall picks and most likely the last two ROTY. It's not even close though. However, I do love our young core.

I mixed it up. I meant to say right now, Clarkson has been better than Russell but Russell has more potential.

shep33
03-13-2016, 05:04 PM
Lavine might be ahead of clarkson too honestly

Offensively Lavine is decent, but overall, Clarkson is superior.

PurpleJesus
03-13-2016, 05:09 PM
I don't speak for all Wolves fans, but as a Wolves fan I do know that there is a high percentage (but not over 50%) of fans that are starting to like Lavine over Wiggins. Wiggins hasnt added another element to his game yet. Right now, he is basically just a scorer. Add in that he doesnt have the work ethic (not necessarily a bad work ethic) or intensity that the other two have, some fans are getting a little down on him.

mngopher35
03-13-2016, 05:11 PM
Offensively Lavine is decent, but overall, Clarkson is superior.

As of this season I would agree he has been a little better but overall with potential I'm not so sure. Basing it off this season alone Randle has a good argument to be at the bottom of the group though.

Teeboy1487
03-13-2016, 05:17 PM
As of this season I would agree he has been a little better but overall with potential I'm not so sure. Basing it off this season alone Randle has a good argument to be at the bottom of the group though.
I know Lavine is younger but overall, I seeing their careers playing out similarly. I don't think one will be much superior than the other. Just my opinion. Clarkson truly came out of no where. The guy was not suppose to be this good. My question is, why so much hate for Wiggins? People are so obsessed with pure shooting now.

PurpleJesus
03-13-2016, 05:30 PM
My question is, why so much hate for Wiggins? People are so obsessed with pure shooting now.

Whether its warranted or not, people see a young millionaire with a perceived lackadaisical attitude and feel he doesnt deserve what he has. As far as the player aspect, he doesnt really do anything outside of score, and if all you are is a scorer, you have to shoot better from the line, and from 3 than what he is doing. He should get better though.

As far as raw scoring goes, he is in an elite category for his age. Cracked some top 10 list about a month ago for most points scored by something like a 2nd year player, or player under 22. Broke a Timberwolves rookie record for most consecutive 20 point games. Youngest player in the league to currently be averaging 20+ ppg.

DODGERS&LAKERS
03-13-2016, 05:44 PM
Not a single one of you called this nonsense out?

This is the biggest load I've ever heard.
If it was nonsense, people would have jumped on it. Heck you would have done it yourself if it was that easy. But people see the numbers and see what i see. You probably looked at the numbers and hoped someone could manipulate the way your heart wants. But by all means prove me wrong

jerellh528
03-13-2016, 05:46 PM
I see it like this:

Now:
KAT
Clarkson
Wiggins
Russell
Randle
Lavine

Potential:
KAT
Russell
Wiggins/ Randle
Lavine
Clarkson

Minny overall, although since Byron has been actually playing them and Kobe/Lou havent played much, the gap has closed a bit. I would've liked to see how lakers youngins performed all year if given free range of the team like minny's youngins have.

mngopher35
03-13-2016, 05:46 PM
I know Lavine is younger but overall, I seeing their careers playing out similarly. I don't think one will be much superior than the other. Just my opinion. Clarkson truly came out of no where. The guy was not suppose to be this good. My question is, why so much hate for Wiggins? People are so obsessed with pure shooting now.

I guess we just differ a little bit on this opinion. I see how Clarkson overall dropped off a little bit this season compared to Lavine making clear improvements. Considering their age and the potential Lavine was considered to have coming in I just would likely guess he continues his trend. I don't think Clarkson will continue to decrease year after year or anything (his surrounding talent/fit this yr is likely the biggest issue) but already being older and not improving year 1 to 2 in the same manner isn't quite the same to me.

With that being said I think both players may end up excelling more in a 6th man role than as a starter with their skills. Lavine just has that extra potential to me where he could become a legitimate starting SG if his progress continues at this rate and I don't see that outlook for Clarkson at either position.

As for Wiggins PJ covered most of it in that many feel like he isn't fully engaged all the time. With his athleticism and size he should fill up the stat sheet/produce a bit more in many peoples minds (his rbd% is actually slightly lower than Lavine). Right now he is a scorer with major potential and some want to see the overall game develop more/quicker. I am not in the group that would compare or take him over Lavine but I think if you said which player are you more surprised about their play so far Lavine might be the answer this season.

MonroeFAN
03-13-2016, 06:06 PM
If it was nonsense, people would have jumped on it. Heck you would have done it yourself if it was that easy. But people see the numbers and see what i see. You probably looked at the numbers and hoped someone could manipulate the way your heart wants. But by all means prove me wrong

Prove you wrong? Russell has been good for like 5 games. Now all the sudden he's more proven than a 2nd year player averaging 20 PPG?

Randle is likely the most in-efficient big in the league playing big minutes.

Clarkson is the most proven of the 3 and he hasn't done anything more than Wiggins has.

Teeboy1487
03-13-2016, 07:02 PM
I guess we just differ a little bit on this opinion. I see how Clarkson overall dropped off a little bit this season compared to Lavine making clear improvements. Considering their age and the potential Lavine was considered to have coming in I just would likely guess he continues his trend. I don't think Clarkson will continue to decrease year after year or anything (his surrounding talent/fit this yr is likely the biggest issue) but already being older and not improving year 1 to 2 in the same manner isn't quite the same to me.

With that being said I think both players may end up excelling more in a 6th man role than as a starter with their skills. Lavine just has that extra potential to me where he could become a legitimate starting SG if his progress continues at this rate and I don't see that outlook for Clarkson at either position.

As for Wiggins PJ covered most of it in that many feel like he isn't fully engaged all the time. With his athleticism and size he should fill up the stat sheet/produce a bit more in many peoples minds (his rbd% is actually slightly lower than Lavine). Right now he is a scorer with major potential and some want to see the overall game develop more/quicker. I am not in the group that would compare or take him over Lavine but I think if you said which player are you more surprised about their play so far Lavine might be the answer this season.
Clarkson did improve from last year. Stats wise, he increased his scoring by 4 points and increased his 3pt percentage by 5 points. He is a much better 3pt shooter than he was last year. I also think he is a 6th man on an elite team. The problem I have with Jordan is his defense. Until he learns the proper fundamentals defensively, he will not be considered a starter for me on an elite team. I think Jordan has shown more improvement from his first year than Lavine has. As for potential, Jordan is older, but I just can't see Lavine surpassing him that much. Lavine should be better right now considering their draft position. Clarkson gets the edge for me right now. Clarkson is actually second in scoring among 2nd year players.

mngopher35
03-13-2016, 07:26 PM
Clarkson did improve from last year. Stats wise, he increased his scoring by 4 points and increased his 3pt percentage by 5 points. He is a much better 3pt shooter than he was last year. I also think he is a 6th man on an elite team. The problem I have with Jordan is his defense. Until he learns the proper fundamentals defensively, he will not be considered a starter for me on an elite team. I think Jordan has shown more improvement from his first year than Lavine has. As for potential, Jordan is older, but I just can't see Lavine surpassing him that much. Lavine should be better right now considering their draft position. Clarkson gets the edge for me right now. Clarkson is actually second in scoring among 2nd year players.

Look at the per 36 numbers for Lavine and Clarkson, not just totals. Lavine was behind Clarkson in both pts and assists last year but is now ahead per 36 minutes (Clarkson didn't change much on pts while ast dropped per 36). On top of this Clarkson also had a drop in overall offensive efficiency while Lavine had a solid jump. He's still not quite where Clarkson is this year but part of that actually might be forcing him to play point early on (since January he has slightly less turns per minute and 47% and 40% shooting) and his volume is now higher per minute. So Clarksons per minute numbers dropped a bit as did his overall efficiency whereas Lavine improved overall (drop in assists but not as large and turnovers dropped big with that). Clarkson has improved his 3 pt shooting which is a good sign and part of that ties into the slightly different situation (more catch and shoot now).

This isn't to say Clarkson is bad or that these numbers tell the whole story (surrounding players definitely contribute to the drop). It does make me a little worried that Clarksons initial outburst last year might have been more to do with just being the main handler on a bad team once Kobe was out. Similar to Tyreke Evans and his start compared to following years but Clarkson older than he was as well.

Edit: To your point about the draft position meaning Lavine should be better that isn't necessarily true. Your draft position is not based on the player you are now but the potential you have as well and he was considered one of the higher potential players. The issue is his production in college wasn't great which is why him having this current level of play (actually scoring/assisting more than college per 40 minutes in his per 36) plus that potential is exciting and different than a 23 year old who surprised early in a main guy role but this season didn't really improve on that. He certainly hasn't shown more improvements than Lavine I don't know where that is coming from.

numba1CHANGsta
03-13-2016, 07:30 PM
This is how id rank them:

KAT
Russell
Wiggins
Clarkson
Randle
Lavine

Wiggins is overrated IMO, he'll end up being an Andre Iguodala type of player, no superstar potential. Lakers have more balance and you add a Simmons or Ingram and that will just put them as the best young corp in the NBA.

mrblisterdundee
03-13-2016, 07:44 PM
Both Karl-Anthony Towns and Andrew Wiggins are better than anyone on the Lakers. We won't have a real idea of how good D'Angelo Russell is until Kobe Bryant's out of the way. Right now, he's about equal with Jordan Clarkson and slightly ahead of Julius Randle and Zach LaVine.
But Minnesota has a much broader core than the Lakers, with fairly young assets like Ricky Rubio, Shabazz Muhammad and Gorgui Dieng. If only they can offload Nikola Pekovic.

PhlyHighPhilly
03-13-2016, 08:06 PM
My unbiased opinion...

:smoking:

Lol

IKnowHoops
03-13-2016, 08:45 PM
I'd easily take Wiggins or Kat over any young Laker. I do love what I've been seeing from Deangelo. The upside of Lavine and Wiggins is unknown due to them both being so young and so explosive and athletic. The versatility they will have based off the athletic ability seperate a them from the Laker bunch. Towns is just so much better than everyone that I don't even need to mention him.

Raps18-19 Champ
03-13-2016, 08:52 PM
If it was nonsense, people would have jumped on it. Heck you would have done it yourself if it was that easy. But people see the numbers and see what i see. You probably looked at the numbers and hoped someone could manipulate the way your heart wants. But by all means prove me wrong

Yes, it's OUR responsibility to prove that statement wrong. Not the other way around.

Teeboy1487
03-13-2016, 09:09 PM
Look at the per 36 numbers for Lavine and Clarkson, not just totals. Lavine was behind Clarkson in both pts and assists last year but is now ahead per 36 minutes (Clarkson didn't change much on pts while ast dropped per 36). On top of this Clarkson also had a drop in overall offensive efficiency while Lavine had a solid jump. He's still not quite where Clarkson is this year but part of that actually might be forcing him to play point early on (since January he has slightly less turns per minute and 47% and 40% shooting) and his volume is now higher per minute. So Clarksons per minute numbers dropped a bit as did his overall efficiency whereas Lavine improved overall (drop in assists but not as large and turnovers dropped big with that). Clarkson has improved his 3 pt shooting which is a good sign and part of that ties into the slightly different situation (more catch and shoot now).

This isn't to say Clarkson is bad or that these numbers tell the whole story (surrounding players definitely contribute to the drop). It does make me a little worried that Clarksons initial outburst last year might have been more to do with just being the main handler on a bad team once Kobe was out. Similar to Tyreke Evans and his start compared to following years but Clarkson older than he was as well.

Edit: To your point about the draft position meaning Lavine should be better that isn't necessarily true. Your draft position is not based on the player you are now but the potential you have as well and he was considered one of the higher potential players. The issue is his production in college wasn't great which is why him having this current level of play (actually scoring/assisting more than college per 40 minutes in his per 36) plus that potential is exciting and different than a 23 year old who surprised early in a main guy role but this season didn't really improve on that. He certainly hasn't shown more improvements than Lavine I don't know where that is coming from. If we judged potential by PER 36, James Harden has more potential now than Steph Curry. Demarcus Cousins has more potential than Anthony Davis. I like and hate that stat at the same time. It's good to judge bench players somehwhat, but I think it's negatively impacts players getting quality minutes. Clarkson's point guard skills did take a hit somewhat, but he has not set up the offense as much as he did last year. Lakers ran alot of pick and roll last year and that's where he thrived. This year, alot more Byron's Princeton which means alot of isos. The Lakers specifically wanted Jordan to improve his catch and shooting abiliy and off the ball skills. I think he has done a terrific job this year at that. Overall, I think he is a better player. The next stop in his progression is defense. I just don't agree Clarkson is not improving. I have watched every second he has played even in the summer league. He is a better player and a love his progression. I hate that upside is based entirely on age. I think it should be based on talent and work ethic.

My point is judging by PER, PPG, FG percentages, and the eye test, I still believe both players will have similar careers. Of course Lavine can be slightly better and he should considering his draft position. I think Clarkson has overachieved tremendously. As a late 2nd round pick and "up there in age", I didn't expect much. Now, he is one of the best young players in his draft class. Like I said, 2nd in scoring among 2nd year players. All rookie 1st team last year.

As for draft position, I think anyone would expect a lottery pick to be a better player than a 2nd round pick despite their ages. I think age is an overrated circumstance here because all 4 year players are not made the same. Look at Wade and Lillard. I honestly don't think Clarkson is that much more season than Lavine. Both are 2nd year players in the nba. I am judging their progression from year 1 to year 2 in the nba.

I don't know where this Clarkson is worst than last year is coming from myself. He has an entirely different role from last year and is doing well. In terms of stats and on paper in terms of ppg, percentages, and PER, Zach Lavine showed slight improvements and Clarkson slightly showed improvement in his numbers as well.

Monta is beast
03-13-2016, 09:45 PM
This is how id rank them:

KAT
Russell
Wiggins
Clarkson
Randle
Lavine

Wiggins is overrated IMO, he'll end up being an Andre Iguodala type of player, no superstar potential. Lakers have more balance and you add a Simmons or Ingram and that will just put them as the best young corp in the NBA.

No core comes close to the warriors. Curry is 27, draymond and klay are 26. None of them have hit there prime yet. Yall can get ingram simmons whoever yall are in the warriors era, realize that ****

Monta is beast
03-13-2016, 09:46 PM
Min core scares me tho. Lakers dont

mngopher35
03-13-2016, 10:15 PM
If we judged potential by PER 36, James Harden has more potential now than Steph Curry. Demarcus Cousins has more potential than Anthony Davis. I like and hate that stat at the same time. It's good to judge bench players somehwhat, but I think it's negatively impacts players getting quality minutes. Clarkson's point guard skills did take a hit somewhat, but he has not set up the offense as much as he did last year. Lakers ran alot of pick and roll last year and that's where he thrived. This year, alot more Byron's Princeton which means alot of isos. The Lakers specifically wanted Jordan to improve his catch and shooting abiliy and off the ball skills. I think he has done a terrific job this year at that. Overall, I think he is a better player. The next stop in his progression is defense. I just don't agree Clarkson is not improving. I have watched every second he has played even in the summer league. He is a better player and a love his progression. I hate that upside is based entirely on age. I think it should be based on talent and work ethic.

I am using it to compare the same player though. I agree the situation is different but Clarkson does not have the same per minute production (drop in assists) nor the efficiency when you compare even to last season. Also per minute Curry is still easily the best player so not sure where you came to that conclusion. Per minute just lets us compare them at the same rate, it can be misused when comparing 15 mpg players to 30 mpg players for sure but Clarkson has played a few more minutes per game so obviously the totals will increase a little bit just due to that. His actual play has not however as shown by those rate stats, it is a different story for Lavine and even Wiggins. On top of this the drop in efficiency while having less production per minute signifies a drop off, although as we said situation is a factor here for sure.


My point is judging by PER, PPG, FG percentages, and the eye test, I still believe both players will have similar careers. Of course Lavine can be slightly better and he should considering his draft position. I think Clarkson has overachieved tremendously. As a late 2nd round pick and "up there in age", I didn't expect much. Now, he is one of the best young players in his draft class. Like I said, 2nd in scoring among 2nd year players. All rookie 1st team last year.

Even Clarksons PER, WS/48, BPM have all dropped while Lavines have all improved though. My point is when you have someone 3 years younger increasing his level of play while the other has at the very least not done that (while production has dropped) it is a clearly different projectory. This is why I brought up Tyreke because he actually won ROY but dropped off in following years. I think the situation Clarkson was in helped produce the level that got him those awards and when he isn't running the show for a bad team he drops off a bit. We will have to see as it is too early to say for sure and you watch him more than I do but it is definitely worth noting and gives reason to the claim Lavine has more potential.


As for draft position, I think anyone would expect a lottery pick to be a better player than a 2nd round pick despite their ages. I think age is an overrated circumstance here because all 4 year players are not made the same. Look at Wade and Lillard. I honestly don't think Clarkson is that much more season than Lavine. Both are 2nd year players in the nba. I am judging their progression from year 1 to year 2 in the nba.

I don't know where this Clarkson is worst than last year is coming from myself. He has an entirely different role from last year and is doing well. In terms of stats and on paper in terms of ppg, percentages, and PER, Zach Lavine showed slight improvements and Clarkson slightly showed improvement in his numbers as well.

Judging off their production year one to year two Clarkson has stepped back and Lavine has stepped forward though. Per 36, efficiency, advanced stats all point to this I am not sure where you find your numbers. The only thing that changes it is Clarkson has gotten better at the 3, maybe a little defensively (hard to say in my limited time watching), and played more minutes. I agree his situation plays into this decrease but it shouldn't be ignored (or claimed that it is improving). Overall though it is very clear comparing them who improved more year 1 to year 2. Lavine was only a lottery pick due to potential, I will say that again. Even in college he didn't produce at a high level, he was just extremely talented and raw. He is starting to put it together and being 3 years younger is important when we are talking about a raw product like this.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
03-13-2016, 11:23 PM
I feel like Wiggins is getting severely underrated in here.

numba1CHANGsta
03-13-2016, 11:30 PM
No core comes close to the warriors. Curry is 27, draymond and klay are 26. None of them have hit there prime yet. Yall can get ingram simmons whoever yall are in the warriors era, realize that ****

Sorry to burst your bubble bruh but what you see from those three right now is what you're gonna get. They're already in their prime and have been in the league much longer than any of MIN or LAL young core.

Lakers + Giants
03-13-2016, 11:49 PM
what makes our rookies smarter and harder workers? You can't just say **** like that to back up your opinion. Youre backing up an opinion with an opinion, lmao.

xxplayerxx23
03-14-2016, 12:09 AM
People really **** on Wiggins to much. He's going to be great. Year 2 and we are already saying he is what he is Jesus Christ.

IKnowHoops
03-14-2016, 01:29 AM
People really **** on Wiggins to much. He's going to be great. Year 2 and we are already saying he is what he is Jesus Christ.

I know. As if Kobe and Tmac didn't improve after year 2. Wiggins is trending pretty well compared to those two. So is Lavine who is also very young.

Monta is beast
03-14-2016, 01:38 AM
Sorry to burst your bubble bruh but what you see from those three right now is what you're gonna get. They're already in their prime and have been in the league much longer than any of MIN or LAL young core.

Sorry to burst your bubble bruh but currys in the running for most improved player coming off an mvp so to say he wont get better is redundant as ****. Draymond will get much better offensively thats just a fact and klay still could improve his overall game.

Bubble bursted

Monta is beast
03-14-2016, 01:41 AM
And fyi a players prime is generally considered to be betweem 28-32 in basketball which none of them are currently in. But if it so happens that they've reached there peak (which imo they havent) ill take the best player in the world, a defensive player of the year candidate and most versatile player in the league and an all star sg everyday of the week. But like i said i still see improvements from all 3, mainly draymond

Monta is beast
03-14-2016, 01:46 AM
But cmon when teams gms are stating there structuring there roster to try and compete with the warriors kind of says it all. As long as we got those three i dont see no one competing with us. Not saying were gonna win the chip year in and year out cause that just dont happen. But i am saying we are witnessing pure dominance right now. Im definitely not worried about the lakers

numba1CHANGsta
03-14-2016, 02:08 AM
Sorry to burst your bubble bruh but currys in the running for most improved player coming off an mvp so to say he wont get better is redundant as ****. Draymond will get much better offensively thats just a fact and klay still could improve his overall game.

Bubble bursted

Do you not know how to read? I said what you see from them RIGHT NOW is the best they will ever get. So it don't matter if he wins MIP or not, these players will never reach their max potential with all three playing on the same team, even if one left the team and played somewhere else they would still be the same player but will just have more looks since they wouldn't have the other two players to split baskets with. Besides your argument is irrelevant since we're talking about 1st/2nd year players not players who have been in the league for 4-7 years.

Monta is beast
03-14-2016, 02:12 AM
It would be hard to be apart of an online forum if i didnt know how to read. You gotta be the most redundant person on here

Monta is beast
03-14-2016, 02:13 AM
And im saying i promise you they will all get better. Draymond, thompson, Curry in that order.

Monta is beast
03-14-2016, 02:14 AM
Min>la

Monta is beast
03-14-2016, 02:15 AM
Minnesota will be a playoff team in 2 years cant say that forsure about the lakers

IKnowHoops
03-14-2016, 02:26 AM
Minnesota will be a playoff team in 2 years cant say that forsure about the lakers

All they need to do is hit on there next two drafts, hopefully get extremely lucky and get the #1 pick again and get Ben. If not I really like Buddy.

Trade Rubio after this season for a high pick, and then get two good picks the following year and then starting that 3rd year, Lavine, Wiggins, and Towns should be good enough to get MN into the playoffs no matter how those 3 picks turn out.

If MN hist on those picks, then the team will just get better and better as Lavine, Wiggins and Towns progress, as well as the 3 draft picks they pick up. Fill in the rest of the club with vets and biggest need allstar and this team will be ready to go on a very productive run.

Scoots
03-14-2016, 04:13 AM
It would be hard to be apart of an online forum if i didnt know how to read. You gotta be the most redundant person on here
I know you can read, but I'm not sure you know the meaning of redundant.

Scoots
03-14-2016, 04:14 AM
Do you not know how to read? I said what you see from them RIGHT NOW is the best they will ever get. So it don't matter if he wins MIP or not, these players will never reach their max potential with all three playing on the same team, even if one left the team and played somewhere else they would still be the same player but will just have more looks since they wouldn't have the other two players to split baskets with. Besides your argument is irrelevant since we're talking about 1st/2nd year players not players who have been in the league for 4-7 years.
I think the warriors core is still getting better. I don't see any reason to think they have peaked.

Hawkeye15
03-14-2016, 09:27 AM
Wolves fairly easily

MILLERHIGHLIFE
03-14-2016, 09:50 AM
I'd take my Bucks over both these teams easily. Yeah Wolves have the upper hand with another high lottery pick. Giannis going wild with triple doubles. Parker finally being the guy we thought he was raining in shots from all over. Middleton the perfect third fiddle.

Iron24th
03-14-2016, 09:52 AM
Minny's core is better until we get simmons or ingram then we'll talk.

Tony_Starks
03-14-2016, 11:26 AM
Right now KAT gives Minny the edge. He's legit.

A few things remain to be seen:

-what will they do with Lavine? Will he be locked in at 2? Combo guard? PG?

-will Wiggins commit to elevate his defense to a elite level? The skills are there for him to become perineal 1st team all D, if he commits to it.

-How high is Randles ceiling once he gets someone to actually teach him fundamentally? He's giving us a easy double double now basically playing playground hoops.

Alayla
03-14-2016, 02:29 PM
I'd take my Bucks over both these teams easily. Yeah Wolves have the upper hand with another high lottery pick. Giannis going wild with triple doubles. Parker finally being the guy we thought he was raining in shots from all over. Middleton the perfect third fiddle.

The bucks are low key on fire right now and frankly as a Philly fan they have a roster im really jelly of Middleton is exactly the type of SG i like the most Giannis is a video game and Parker is finally coming into his own wanted him so bad in the draft. but idk KAT is so good will be interesting to see but people shouldn't sleep on the bucks.

Rocco007
03-14-2016, 03:46 PM
Alright...Time for me to chime in boys...
If you noticed in my original post...I mentioned that LA has the smarter and harder working young players over Minny's group...Forget ceiling or potential...because on the NBA level, it's about being smarter and working harder than your opponent...consistantly...You don't have to be the best athlete in order to get it done...Curry is pretty good athlete but not great for NBA standards...but he is smart and works harder than most...
For example...
There's no doubting how hard and how much improvement we have seen from Jordan Clarkson since he was drafted 46th overall 2 years ago. Anyone objects or need facts let me know.

There's no doubting how hard and how much improvement we have seen from D'Angelo Russell since the beginning of this season. Anyone objects or need facts let me know.

There's no doubting how hard and how much improvement we have seen from Julius Randle since he broke his leg 2 mins into his rookie season 1 year ago. Heck he has improved every month. Anyone objects or need facts let me know.

Minny is a different story...Wiggins and Lavine are standout athletes...That's it...Nothing more, nothing less...
Zach Lavine was statistically the worst player in the NBA last season...He is a new age athlete...can dunk for sure...can shoot when he's hot...but what else? He can not play the 1 in the NBA...Lacks the smarts...So what will he be? Poor man Jamal Crawford???
I have included excerpts from an article that illustates my points...Wiggins is the same type player...No substance on the court...Poor man's Rudy Gay???
Neither can lead a franchise...just not built for it...You can't learn heart, motor and natural instincts.
I will refrain from criticizing KAT...But I will say, for all the glory and big stats for KAT...Minny has 21 wins this season...again fruitless...
Minny doesn't even have great highlights of team play...I don't see how this trio can remotely be better than Russell, Clarkson and Randle...They don't even work well together...which should be the clear definition of your CORE players...



Now, to be clear, this is not to write Wiggins off by any means. He's 20 years old. It's far too early to put his career in stone. As well, Wiggins is fighting against exponentially higher expectations compared to, say, Zach and Bazz; he is a #1 overall pick, after all.

That said, Wiggins has taken several steps back this season, from an already weak set of overall skills, and it's gotten to a point where I think it can't be chalked up to just youth and inexperience.

Compared to last season, Wiggins has regressed in everything non-scoring related. His rebounding, assists, steals, blocks (and likewise, reb%, ast%, stls% and blks%) are all down. His three point rate has gone up, but his three point shooting percentage has gone down, and his Box +/-, Replacement Player score, and RPM are all thoroughly negative.

Andrew Wiggins Points/36 (TS%) Rebounds/36 (reb%) Assists/36 (ast%) Steals/36 (stls%) Blocks/36 (blk%) Usage% Value over Replacement Box +/- RPM
2014-2015 16.8 (.517) 4.5 (7.2) 2.1 (9.8) 1.0 (1.5) 0.6 (1.3) 22.6 -0.2 -2.3 -1.66
2015-2016 21.0 (.524) 3.8 (6.1) 1.9 (9.5) 0.9 (1.2) 0.5 (1.2) 27.8 -0.2 -2.4 -3.56

This statistical decline is most telling when compared to fellow sophomore Zach LaVine, who was by most statistical measures the worst player in the NBA last season as a rookie.

2015-2016 Points/36 (TS%) Rebounds/36 (reb%) Assists/36 (ast%) Steals/36 (stls%) Blocks/36 (blk%) Usage% Value over Replacement Box +/- RPM
Andrew Wiggins 21.0 (.524) 3.8 (6.1) 1.9 (9.5) 0.9 (1.2) 0.5 (1.2) 27.8 -0.2 -2.4 -3.56
Zach LaVine 19.4 (.527) 4.6 (7.4) 4.8 (24.2) 1.0 (1.4) 0.2 (0.4) 26.7 0.2 -1.2 -3.05

Part of this, honestly, needs to be genuinely credited to Sam Mitchell. Sam gets fairly criticized for a lot, but Zach's progress is one thing he deserves praise for. I really believe that Mitchell's 'tough love' strategy and combination of sternness and caginess have gotten through to Zach in a way that, quite frankly, Flip Saunders was never going to.

But a large part of this has to be attributed to Wiggins simply not doing enough.

This has been a constant criticism of Wiggins since his college days at Kansas. The lack of instinct. The tendency to 'float'. Andrew isn't, as Nate would say, a 'do-stuff' player. As he commented a few weeks ago:

I like to think of each player like a bucket of production. Every bit of production that gets poured in adds to the overall total. Rebounds, steals, deflections, miles run, points, TS, etc and whatever.

I think certain items put in that bucket are more highly rated than others. Scoring being #1 on that list. It's the easiest to see both in the box score and in person. It's also pretty hard to do efficiently.

Wiggins has a long way to improve his shooting/shot selection in order for his scoring to be a dependable net positive for the team. That's what is so limiting about his game/future prospects if he doesn't diversify his game. It's also why he sticks out. His thing, he doesn't do it that great, and isn't showing much of anything else. It's also the easiest thing to see on the court and in the box score.

I think the catch is that the do ish guys tend to be the best ones. The bar for scoring efficiency is pretty high and (I'm using this as a matter of short hand because I don't want to check across the board) the only 3 players in the top 20 RPM right now who are there mainly for scoring are Curry, Durant, and Harden. And those guys do other things, too.

What will be key if the Wolves ever make the playoffs with this group is having a wing player who can defend, defensive rebound, have a higher TS with more 3point efficiency as part of it, and maybe get a few more steals. This is 95% of the game and the team will be much better for it if Wiggins can improve his value during that time instead of the other 5.

And here:

He's a volume scorer who is a net negative producer compared to the average position player in non-scoring situations while gaining his scoring advantage by almost doubling up the free throw attempts of his SG peers (he shoots 7% less than the average sg at the line).

Development-wise, I don't get why this dude is being force-fed iso scoring instead of being asked to, say, grab 10 rebounds a game or get 3 steals on a given night. He's not that good of a scorer where him having more chances to do so is going to make a big dent. Him rebounding better, getting more steals, being a defensive monster...these are things he can likely improve much more than his scoring (and would also be better for the team), which is hugely dependent on the idea of a subpar free throw shooter taking a lot of free throws (never mind the post up attempts). The coaching staff needs to be force-feeding him do-**** challenges every night that don't involve scoring the ball.

This is dead on, both in terms of what makes a good player good, and why Wiggins is causing problems. "Lacking diversity" is a very generous way to put Andrew's current production, and it is indeed apparent in the box score. Every advanced statistic is a derivative of the basic box score, and as we can see above, Wiggins is thoroughly negative on them all. Some, alarmingly so.

No more was this apparent than last Friday's game against the Jazz, in which Wiggins played 36 minutes without grabbing a single rebound or making a single assist. That is inexcusable. And unfortunately, not far off from normal for Andrew. He has tallied 4 or fewer rebounds in over half his games thus far (70-130), including 30 games of less than 2 rebounds, and 6 games of 0 rebounds. Likewise, he's had 89 games of 2 or fewer assists, including 23 of 0 assists.

http://www.canishoopus.com/2016/2/1/10880850/the-timberwolves-need-to-start-getting-a-lot-more-from-andrew-wiggins

Hawkeye15
03-14-2016, 04:22 PM
justify it to yourself all you want. KAT is a future superstar, so the Wolves win this question simply by that.

Wiggins/Lavine/Bazz/whatever they draft with another top 5 pick, along with Towns, is the best young core in the NBA.

Simple.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
03-14-2016, 05:04 PM
justify it to yourself all you want. KAT is a future superstar, so the Wolves win this question simply by that.

Wiggins/Lavine/Bazz/whatever they draft with another top 5 pick, along with Towns, is the best young core in the NBA.

Simple.

But they don't have the grit and smarts da Lakers do doe!

Monta is beast
03-14-2016, 05:05 PM
I know you can read, but I'm not sure you know the meaning of redundant.

Redundant is unnecessary repetition. Saying someone cant read when there responding to what you wrote would be redundant...

R. Johnson#3
03-14-2016, 06:25 PM
[QUOTE=Rocco007;30796532]
Alright...Time for me to chime in boys...
If you noticed in my original post...I mentioned that LA has the smarter and harder working young players over Minny's group...Forget ceiling or potential...because on the NBA level, it's about being smarter and working harder than your opponent...consistantly...You don't have to be the best athlete in order to get it done...Curry is pretty good athlete but not great for NBA standards...but he is smart and works harder than most...
For example...
There's no doubting how hard and how much improvement we have seen from Jordan Clarkson since he was drafted 46th overall 2 years ago. Anyone objects or need facts let me know.

There's no doubting how hard and how much improvement we have seen from D'Angelo Russell since the beginning of this season. Anyone objects or need facts let me know.

There's no doubting how hard and how much improvement we have seen from Julius Randle since he broke his leg 2 mins into his rookie season 1 year ago. Heck he has improved every month. Anyone objects or need facts let me know.

Minny is a different story...Wiggins and Lavine are standout athletes...That's it...Nothing more, nothing less...
Zach Lavine was statistically the worst player in the NBA last season...He is a new age athlete...can dunk for sure...can shoot when he's hot...but what else? He can not play the 1 in the NBA...Lacks the smarts...So what will he be? Poor man Jamal Crawford???
I have included excerpts from an article that illustates my points...Wiggins is the same type player...No substance on the court...Poor man's Rudy Gay???
Neither can lead a franchise...just not built for it...You can't learn heart, motor and natural instincts.
I will refrain from criticizing KAT...But I will say, for all the glory and big stats for KAT...Minny has 21 wins this season...again fruitless...
Minny doesn't even have great highlights of team play...I don't see how this trio can remotely be better than Russell, Clarkson and Randle...They don't even work well together...which should be the clear definition of your CORE players...


Instead of looking at numbers you need to watch Karl Anthony Towns play basketball. He will soon be unstoppable on offense. He can literally do everything and he's only going to get better.

You bring up the fact that Randle and Russell have both improved over the course of this year which is true but Jordan Clarkson seems to be replicating what he did last year. I'm not saying he won't improve eventually but he hasn't built on last season. He's just taking more shots. It's also almost as if you've ignored Wiggins' and Lavine's improvement from last season too which has been significant. Wiggins especially. I'm not banking on Lavine being a superstar but he doesn't need to be. Wiggins is going to be great and Towns is going to be legendary.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
03-14-2016, 06:31 PM
The bucks are low key on fire right now and frankly as a Philly fan they have a roster im really jelly of Middleton is exactly the type of SG i like the most Giannis is a video game and Parker is finally coming into his own wanted him so bad in the draft. but idk KAT is so good will be interesting to see but people shouldn't sleep on the bucks.

Well if Embiid comes back 110% healthy next year and starts to string along a bunch of 20 point games and does the dream shake. Man oh man. East be looking tough when 76ers ready to spend this summer on their backcourt. 76ers could be scratching for playoffs next year with the right contracts signed. You guys need a back court then your in this discussion in this thread as well. East doesn't seem the same when Celtics,Bucks,76ers aren't fighting with each other for playoffs.

PurpleJesus
03-14-2016, 08:25 PM
I still don't get how OP keeps claiming the LAL guys are harder working. There literally might not be a guy in the league as committed as KAT to being great. Just watch the VICE video on him. And Lavine apparently works so hard in the gym that the training staff had to ask him to take a step back.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
03-14-2016, 08:50 PM
I still don't get how OP keeps claiming the LAL guys are harder working. There literally might not be a guy in the league as committed as KAT to being great. Just watch the VICE video on him. And Lavine apparently works so hard in the gym that the training staff had to ask him to take a step back.

lol ya I found it funny that he kept on mentioning how LaVine was the worst player in the league last year yet doesn't care to explain why he might be one of the most improved players this season. He also brought up that the T-Wolves record was poor, so what does that say then about the Lakers who are worse?

Hell the Timberwolves head coach died before the season started and they're still doing pretty well considering the situation.

Chronz
03-14-2016, 09:19 PM
lol ya I found it funny that he kept on mentioning how LaVine was the worst player in the league last year yet doesn't care to explain why he might be one of the most improved players this season. He also brought up that the T-Wolves record was poor, so what does that say then about the Lakers who are worse?

Hell the Timberwolves head coach died before the season started and they're still doing pretty well considering the situation.
The main thing I've learned in all my years as a mere spectator..... FLF
Forgive Laker Fans

Tony_Starks
03-14-2016, 09:38 PM
The main thing I've learned in all my years as a mere spectator..... FLF
Forgive Laker Fans


I find it kinda ironic that the same guy that seemingly takes issue with posters not using any statistical evidence to support their claim and just complain/ lazily group people that disagree with them as "haters"

....would then turn around and respond to a well articulated argument, one backed by statistical data that supports his subjective opinion, and brush it off with a dismissive broad brush of "Forgive Laker Fans."

Alayla
03-14-2016, 09:56 PM
How is this thread STILL going wow...

Rocco007
03-14-2016, 11:26 PM
I still don't get how OP keeps claiming the LAL guys are harder working. There literally might not be a guy in the league as committed as KAT to being great. Just watch the VICE video on him. And Lavine apparently works so hard in the gym that the training staff had to ask him to take a step back.

First off...I'm grouping everyone together as a core...If you are not improving, does it mean you are not working hard enough?
Zach Lavine last year.

By the standard per-game stats, Zach LaVine looks like a promising young guard with tons of potential, but the analytics tell a completely different story.

Among rookies this year, LaVine ranked fifth in points per game (10.1), seventh in minutes per game (24.7) and fifth in double doubles (4). After looking at these numbers and remembering he’s only 19 years old, it’s understandable to think LaVine could one day become a top-tier offensive guard. However, per-game stats can be deceiving. These numbers tell us a player’s value in quantity but not in quality.
A few years ago, we would look at his stat line and categorize the rookie as a future up and comer, but now, in the age of analytics, we know these numbers are misleading. Many of his numbers are inflated because the Wolves had several injuries and little to any scoring punch; which means LaVine simply looted stats on an offensively inept team.

According to LaVine’s shot chart, he’s basically shooting below the league average everywhere on the court besides right under the rim. He may be the best dunker in the league and possibly NBA history, but outside of leaping unfathomably high, LaVine’s game is extremely limited.

According to ESPN, LaVine ranked dead last among all 84 NBA point guards in Real Plus or Minus (-6.89) and Wins Above Replacement (-5.36). Some might blame LaVine’s low numbers on his untalented supporting cast, but according to 82games.com, the Wolves are actually 11.4 points worse with LaVine on the court. LaVine’s net rating is the lowest on the Wolves roster. To sum it up, LaVine, by these numbers, was the worst player on the worst team in basketball. Yikes.
http://dunkingwithwolves.com/2015/04/23/zach-lavines-rookie-season-numbers/

This year...Lavine...
3 more points a game...same assists same same rebs....
He's not even projected as a starter anymore...more of a 6th man...tweener...Weighs 170 soaking wet...
Hit the gym like Clarkson and the boys have...
By comparison...
Clarkson is head and shoulders a better player..has more game...
someone here said Clarkson hasn't improved this year???What???...Have you watched a single Laker game??
Clarkson has been our best player this year...

Rocco007
03-14-2016, 11:36 PM
lol ya I found it funny that he kept on mentioning how LaVine was the worst player in the league last year yet doesn't care to explain why he might be one of the most improved players this season. He also brought up that the T-Wolves record was poor, so what does that say then about the Lakers who are worse?

Hell the Timberwolves head coach died before the season started and they're still doing pretty well considering the situation.
The Lakers and Minnesota are having 2 differently bad seasons...
Minnesota came into this year with high expectations...
Your "Core" was set...
Am emerging superstar Wiggins and an emerging star Lavine...with an "HOFer in the making" KAT...a HOFer on the bench...KG coming back home...A healthy Rubio...This was supposed to be a good year...a break out year...The West is having a supbar seasaon overall...Minny couldn't compete for an 8th seed given all their supposed talent???
The Lakers came into this season on a trial basis...Kobe's retirement and the development of the young players all were muddied up together and the kids didn't get to play consistantly...But now that they are getting the time as starters????....
Well, Lakerfans feel pretty good moving forward...with a potential lottery pick in hand...

There is a difference between players and ballers...The Wolves have players...can't fight their way out of a wet paperbag...
The Lakers have Ballers...We have game...grit...heart...and confidence...
We will eventually break through a brick wall...

ewing
03-14-2016, 11:39 PM
do you think purple make you more convincing?

Yanks All Day
03-15-2016, 12:02 AM
I don't think either the Lakers or Wolves have the best young trio. The Milwaukee Bucks do. Middleton-Giannis-Parker have as high a future ceiling as any trio in basketball. They're flying under the radar in part because of early season struggles and Jabari's injury, but they're rounding into form now.

If its Lakers or Timberwolves? It's clearly the Wolves. But their ceiling might not be as high as people like to think. KAT is clearly a superstar in the making, but Wiggins and LaVine have a long way to go before they're going to be a contending team. The Lakers, on the other hand, all have a long way to go. No superstar yet. That's the difference.

Side note: Brandon Ingram should be the first overall pick, especially if the Lakers get #1. Longer player who actually has an offensive game and can actually shoot the ball. Translates better to the NBA game, especially once he grows into his body. He's 18 months younger than Simmons and is arguably already a better player. Simmons has no offense outside of 5 feet from the rim, where he's not going to be living in the paint like he did at LSU. Adding Ingram to Russell, Clarkson, and Randle would be a great complement to the talent they already have.

IKnowHoops
03-15-2016, 12:48 AM
I don't think either the Lakers or Wolves have the best young trio. The Milwaukee Bucks do. Middleton-Giannis-Parker have as high a future ceiling as any trio in basketball. They're flying under the radar in part because of early season struggles and Jabari's injury, but they're rounding into form now.

If its Lakers or Timberwolves? It's clearly the Wolves. But their ceiling might not be as high as people like to think. KAT is clearly a superstar in the making, but Wiggins and LaVine have a long way to go before they're going to be a contending team. The Lakers, on the other hand, all have a long way to go. No superstar yet. That's the difference.

Side note: Brandon Ingram should be the first overall pick, especially if the Lakers get #1. Longer player who actually has an offensive game and can actually shoot the ball. Translates better to the NBA game, especially once he grows into his body. He's 18 months younger than Simmons and is arguably already a better player. Simmons has no offense outside of 5 feet from the rim, where he's not going to be living in the paint like he did at LSU. Adding Ingram to Russell, Clarkson, and Randle would be a great complement to the talent they already have.

If the lakers got the first pick and the Twolves got the second pick, I pray the Lakers listen to you because I want Ben for the Wolves. Wolves need a PF not a SF. The lakers need a SF so hopefully it works out great for both teams.

mngopher35
03-15-2016, 02:29 AM
Rocco007 you have a lot of posts so I will just address a good chunk here and wait for your reply (if I missed things feel free to include in your response, I'm sure I did since I skimmed some). You keep focusing on random stats here and there with certain players so let me put them all right here for everyone to see with all the players included. This way instead of just cherry picking we get the whole picture (basics per 36 minutes). In parenthesis I will put where each of them rank among the 6 players involved so it isn't as hard to compare each since I'm sure when I post format will look weird.

Wiggins: 21.3 pts (1), 2 ast (t-4), 3.7 reb (6), 104 ortg (t-2), .533 TS% (3), 16.4 PER (2), .061 WS/48 (2), -2.5 BPM (5), on/off net +5 (1), -2.25 RPM (4)

Towns: 20.5 pts (2), 2 ast (t-4), 11.9 reb (2), 112 ORTG (1), .592 TS% (1), 22.9 PER (1), .154 WS/48, (1), 2.8 BPM (1), on/off net +3.3 (2), .65 RPM (1)

Lavine: 18.4 pts (3), 4.2 ast (2), 4.1 reb (5), 102 ORTG (4), .534 TS% (2), 14.2 PER (5), .044 WS/48 (4), -1.8 BPM (4), on/off net -6.6 (5), -3.19 RPM (5)

Russell: 17.3 pts (5), 4.6 ast (1), 4.5 reb (2), 99 ortg (5), .522 TS% (t-4), 14.6 PER (4) .023 WS/48 (6), -1 BPM (t-2), on/off net -1.3 (3), -2.06 RPM (3)

Clarkson: 17.4 pts (4), 2.9 ast (3), 4.4 reb (3), 104 ortg (t-2), .522 TS% (t-4), 15 PER (3), .047 WS/48 (3), -1 BPM (t-2), on/off net -4.3 (4), -1.63 RPM (2)

Randle: 15.1 pts (6), 2 ast (t-4), 13.5 reb (1), 97 ortg (6), .482 TS% (6), 14.1 PER (6), .031 WS/48 (5), -4.4 BPM (6), on/off net -9.2 (6), -4.67 RPM (6)


Now this isn't the whole story by any means but with your randomness of which to use and cherry picking of stats I thought I would just put a bunch of them together to compare everyone (tried to get most of the ones I've seen and a couple more using bball reference and espn for rpm). This doesn't take into account that Lavine spent part of the season being forced into a pg role when he clearly just isn't one. It doesn't take into account the Laker team on/off might be affected because they have worse teammates playing with them etc etc. What I think we can see here though is that Towns is clearly the best player of this group and Randle is the worst based off statistics. Minnesota players are 1-3 in scoring per minute and also 1-3 in scoring efficiency which is a big aspect (the article you referenced called it the most important and we have volume and efficiency lead; that might have been your opinion actually hard to tell in the post but either way I would agree). When it comes to Rebounding+Assists the Lakers do have the edge but for two of your players being handlers/creators the gap really isn't that big here. Rebounding is the aspect where I believe Wiggins needs to show more effort and it shows here giving the edge to Lakers. The rest of the results are somewhat mixed and I will just leave it at this based off those stats. You kept harping on one thing here or there so I thought I would help provide the total picture with all of them involved for true comparison.

When it comes to Clarkson I have multiple posts already if you want to see more but I will also explain it here as well. Clarkson has improved his 3pt shot this season but overall offensively not so much especially statistically like you were pointing out for Wiggins earlier. He has arguably improved his defense (that is his bit of boost in RPM) but I haven't seen enough to say for sure (about 10 games, didn't notice much) and the Laker fan I was talking with complained about it still so probably not a major improvement even if he has.

Outside of that his overall shooting efficiency is basically unchanged, his points per 36 minutes are basically unchanged, and he has about 2 less assists per 36 minutes (bigger drop than Wiggins with a .1 drop in assists and .7 drops in rebounds). If we use your reasoning of a very little drop being an issue he also dropped in blocks per 36 and rebounds per 36 but those were minor like most for Wiggins in your earlier analysis (just staying consistent for you). On top of this Clarkson had a drop of his overall offensive efficiency from 107 ortg to 104 ortg this year. Overall Wiggins improved points per 36, PER, WS/48, ORTG, TS%, his +/- and had bigger increase in ORPM (barely, neither much) and smaller decrease in BPM (barely again, neither much). Clarkson however decreased in PER, ORTG, assists per 36 by almost 2, and his +/- without major increases in many other stats like Wiggins had. Somehow you felt it was clearly needed to point out Wiggins hasn't improved despite this (and Lavine some which I could also get into if you want) while laughing off the idea for Clarkson. This is part of the reason I wanted to include many of the numbers above for everyone to see and compare. Just this difference in your analysis here clearly shows me there is some bias in your posts and you try and twist things to favor one side. It was obvious with the work ethic type comments as well (as if any of us can be sure or hang around both these teams sessions, as mentioned at least Towns/Lavine are known for this).

mngopher35
03-15-2016, 03:37 AM
The Lakers and Minnesota are having 2 differently bad seasons...
Minnesota came into this year with high expectations...
Your "Core" was set...
Am emerging superstar Wiggins and an emerging star Lavine...with an "HOFer in the making" KAT...a HOFer on the bench...KG coming back home...A healthy Rubio...This was supposed to be a good year...a break out year...The West is having a supbar seasaon overall...Minny couldn't compete for an 8th seed given all their supposed talent???
The Lakers came into this season on a trial basis...Kobe's retirement and the development of the young players all were muddied up together and the kids didn't get to play consistantly...But now that they are getting the time as starters????....
Well, Lakerfans feel pretty good moving forward...with a potential lottery pick in hand...

There is a difference between players and ballers...The Wolves have players...can't fight their way out of a wet paperbag...
The Lakers have Ballers...We have game...grit...heart...and confidence...
We will eventually break through a brick wall...

Thought I would respond separately this since I just saw it. This is hindsight at it's best and again not surprising how you twist things. http://www.si.com/nba/2015/07/16/nba-standings-predictions-hornets-thunder-celtics-blazers-mavericks
Those were the pre-season over/under predictions for each team. Minnesota was set at 23.5 wins and Lakers at 29.9.

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/los-angeles-lakers-miami-heat-golden-state-warriors-new-york-knicks-las-vegas-over-under-win-totals-2015-16-season-092915

Here is another one showing the Vegas odds (more reliable) with Minnesota at 25.5 wins and Lakers at 29.5 wins.

Now obviously things haven't gone the Lakers way so all of a sudden the outlooks were far different coming in and we were the ones supposed to compete? Minnesota has been more competitive this year while the lakers have not no matter if you want to call us ballers or players I don't really care, it is just a way for you to twist things and insert your opinion again.

IBleedPurple
03-15-2016, 04:53 AM
Who the hell expected the Wolves in the playoffs?

JOSKOMANG4
03-15-2016, 09:39 AM
Definitely Minnesota. All they need is a coach like Tom Thibs to coach them.

Current Depth Chart:

C-Diong/Pek
PF-Towns/Payne
SF- Wiggins/
SG- Lavine/Muhammed
PG- Rubio/T.Jones

Draft Kris Dunn, PG from Providence. Trade Rubio to a team w/cap Space & a need for a PG(Nets, Knicks, Bucks).

Tony_Starks
03-15-2016, 10:25 AM
Russell is averaging 21 and 4 on 46% since ASB. He is 19 years old.

Randle is averaging a double double on 28 minutes of playing time. He is 21 years old.

When the seasons over neither player will even have a season of starting experience under their belt.

Although Minnys core looks better at the moment, it's certainly within reason to think our core will eventually be the better of the two.

Hawkeye15
03-15-2016, 10:42 AM
Russell is averaging 21 and 4 on 46% since ASB. He is 19 years old.

Randle is averaging a double double on 28 minutes of playing time. He is 21 years old.

When the seasons over neither player will even have a season of starting experience under their belt.

Although Minnys core looks better at the moment, it's certainly within reason to think our core will eventually be the better of the two.

One team has Towns. That team wins this question, simply from that, unless Wiggins/Lavine have literally topped out and never improve..

People forget, both teams are getting another high lottery pick, but the Wolves also have Bazz, and their other rotation plus player is 25 in Rubio. So they aren't exactly an aged roster sitting around a few teens.

nycericanguy
03-15-2016, 11:12 AM
MIN easily... Clarkson is average.

and did someone say that Lavine & WIggins at this point are what they are?...lol. WTF? They both just turned 21 with HUGE upside... especially Lavine IMO. to suggest they have peaked while bringing up Clarkson's potential when he is about to turn 24?

Yea all bias aside it's MIN easily. Beware of Russell putting up big numbers late in the year when the games don't matter anymore and there is no more pressure... alot of guys start putting up big numbers now... not saying Dlo won't be good, but Towns has put up 20 & 10 when the games mattered and the pressure was on.

Knick bag
03-15-2016, 11:29 AM
KAT is better than everyone on both list. Wiggins is next. Randle plays no D. Like both young cores but Minny easily. Respect DLo

MILLERHIGHLIFE
03-15-2016, 11:32 AM
Definitely Minnesota. All they need is a coach like Tom Thibs to coach them.

Current Depth Chart:

C-Diong/Pek
PF-Towns/Payne
SF- Wiggins/
SG- Lavine/Muhammed
PG- Rubio/T.Jones

Draft Kris Dunn, PG from Providence. Trade Rubio to a team w/cap Space & a need for a PG(Nets, Knicks, Bucks).

As Bucks fan I say no to Rubio now with Giannis playing point forward. Rubio doesn't stretch the floor. Also Bucks just need a role player at PG as catch and shoot 3 point specialist. 3 and D. No need to break the bank at PG now with Giannis beasting. Also wouldn't give up any assets anyway. Don't need a high usage player at PG.

DillyDill
03-15-2016, 03:09 PM
I love my Lakes to death but Twolves hands down, they have potentially 3 superstars I'm a huuuugggeee believer in Lavine (Ucla Bias). Plus another top 5 pick future dynasty without question just gotta grow together and pay everybody when time comes.

B'sCeltsPatsSox
03-15-2016, 03:28 PM
The Lakers and Minnesota are having 2 differently bad seasons...
Minnesota came into this year with high expectations...
Your "Core" was set...
Am emerging superstar Wiggins and an emerging star Lavine...with an "HOFer in the making" KAT...a HOFer on the bench...KG coming back home...A healthy Rubio...This was supposed to be a good year...a break out year...The West is having a supbar seasaon overall...Minny couldn't compete for an 8th seed given all their supposed talent???
The Lakers came into this season on a trial basis...Kobe's retirement and the development of the young players all were muddied up together and the kids didn't get to play consistantly...But now that they are getting the time as starters????....
Well, Lakerfans feel pretty good moving forward...with a potential lottery pick in hand...

There is a difference between players and ballers...The Wolves have players...can't fight their way out of a wet paperbag...
The Lakers have Ballers...We have game...grit...heart...and confidence...
We will eventually break through a brick wall...

No one expected the Timberwolves to make the playoffs.

Probably because they don't have that "willingness to run through a wall" factor going for them, obviously :rolleyes:

5ass
03-15-2016, 03:44 PM
As Bucks fan I say no to Rubio now with Giannis playing point forward. Rubio doesn't stretch the floor. Also Bucks just need a role player at PG as catch and shoot 3 point specialist. 3 and D. No need to break the bank at PG now with Giannis beasting. Also wouldn't give up any assets anyway. Don't need a high usage player at PG.

Common misconception about Rubio. His USG% is 42nd among PGs, but I get what you're saying.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/usageRate

Hawkeye15
03-15-2016, 03:51 PM
Common misconception about Rubio. His USG% is 42nd among PGs, but I get what you're saying.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/usageRate

Rubio's real +/- rating is 5th for PG's, his defensive +/- is 1st by a mile.

Still can't shoot a lick outside the occasional open 3 ball haha

Rocco007
03-15-2016, 04:01 PM
Thought I would respond separately this since I just saw it. This is hindsight at it's best and again not surprising how you twist things.
Those were the pre-season over/under predictions for each team. Minnesota was set at 23.5 wins and Lakers at 29.9.

Here is another one showing the Vegas odds (more reliable) with Minnesota at 25.5 wins and Lakers at 29.5 wins.

Now obviously things haven't gone the Lakers way so all of a sudden the outlooks were far different coming in and we were the ones supposed to compete? Minnesota has been more competitive this year while the lakers have not no matter if you want to call us ballers or players I don't really care, it is just a way for you to twist things and insert your opinion again.

YOU ARE FAR MORE VERSED THAN I AM IN ANALYTICS...
But I will say this...Last night's game is my point in a nutshell.
Lavine scores 28 with a -8 5 fouls and nothing else...
Wiggins scores 22 and nothing else...
KAT 17 and 10...
Rubio 17 asssits...
and you lose to the worst team in the NBA since the All star break...

Alot of fluffy stats with nothing to show for it...

Now if KAT is everything you all are claiming...why can't he carry the team to wins???
If KAT is a superstar STUD...why can't he will his team to more wins than 21 at this juncture???
I don't remember the last big man superstar that couldn't will his team to some victories...and it's not a lack of surrounding talent...

The Wolves are filled with players that don't impact the game effectively to win...
Some will blame the coach.....But Lavine and Wiggins have been boom or busts prospects since HS and College...no secret there....
Minny has started Wiggins and KAT from day 1.
Lavine has gotten alot of chances to prove himself...and I actually like how Mitchell has started all 3 with Rubio....makes sense...
Lavine is a gym rat some say..."The staffers need to run him out"...What;s he doing?? practicing dunks I'm sure...
Wiggins is a zombie on the court...No instincts at all...no motor...no real skillset...no polished moves...he just plays...
I like Lavine...But I don't see how his game translates effectively...He needs to get bigger and stronger...Is he Lou Williams? No...doesn't have that kind of game...Is he another Jamal Crawford? Again, I don't see that kind of guile in his game...Not a smart player...


Some are asking how can I assume LA's trio works harder than Minny's trio?
Well, lets look.
Jordan Clarkson had to work his way into his position as a 46th pick..He hits the gym...adds muscles..continues to refine his game as the competition caught up to him...excellent in the paint...has become a very reliable shooter..why are his assists down? He plays more off the ball now...as a SG or combo...
Julius Randle broke his leg last year...and was benched this season...adds muscle...loses weight...Has game off of the dribble, in the post and will eventually have a nice outside game...again adversity...
D'Russelll was benched this season...adds muscle...shot is smoother...more aggressive on the court...
again has faced adversity...

Byron Scott has made his young guys work...Our last loss to NYK, he benched the starters the whole 4th quarter....for perceived lack of sustained effort...


Again Minny and LA have horrible records for 2 different reasons... Minny is underachieving...
Minny fans were going crazy when they started 8-8...Now all of a sudden, we were supposed to be bad... If KAT
is the beast you all claim, he should be leading this team to victory...
As of now...I see alot of fluff but not a whole lot of substance... IMO

Minny KAT #1 Wiggins #1 Lavine #13 (fk me he whispered when drafted by Minny)
LAL Randle #7 Russell #2 Clarkson #46

SMH...Kudos Mitch Kupchak

True Sports Fan
03-15-2016, 04:04 PM
:laugh:

MILLERHIGHLIFE
03-15-2016, 04:24 PM
Common misconception about Rubio. His USG% is 42nd among PGs, but I get what you're saying.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/hollinger/statistics/_/position/pg/sort/usageRate

Well just saying with Giannis running the show having Rubio be a waste and over kill. Yeah Rubio defense be nice and fit into the system that way. Yet doesn't stretch the floor. Bad enough Monroe be linked to trade rumors to Pelicans this offseason. Worried we end up with Holiday then his high usage would mess things up besides being injury prone. Worse case we have to eat Asik horrible contract and incentive be we get Pelicans lottery pick. Think its #6. Could be Murray or Hield there then at #10 could be Skal or whatever.

DanG
03-15-2016, 04:38 PM
I don't think either the Lakers or Wolves have the best young trio. The Milwaukee Bucks do. Middleton-Giannis-Parker have as high a future ceiling as any trio in basketball. They're flying under the radar in part because of early season struggles and Jabari's injury, but they're rounding into form now.

If its Lakers or Timberwolves? It's clearly the Wolves. But their ceiling might not be as high as people like to think. KAT is clearly a superstar in the making, but Wiggins and LaVine have a long way to go before they're going to be a contending team. The Lakers, on the other hand, all have a long way to go. No superstar yet. That's the difference.

Side note: Brandon Ingram should be the first overall pick, especially if the Lakers get #1. Longer player who actually has an offensive game and can actually shoot the ball. Translates better to the NBA game, especially once he grows into his body. He's 18 months younger than Simmons and is arguably already a better player. Simmons has no offense outside of 5 feet from the rim, where he's not going to be living in the paint like he did at LSU. Adding Ingram to Russell, Clarkson, and Randle would be a great complement to the talent they already have.

Passing: Simmons
Post game: Simmons
Rebounding: Simmons
Defense: Simmons
Basketball IQ: Simmons
Size: Simmons
Shooting: Ingram

The only question mark for Simmons is his killer instinct. There is no way the Lakers pick Ingram if they get the 1st pick. People are overreacting to Simmons' play lately because his standards are so high. There is nothing wrong with him playing in the paint because the Lakers already have good shooters in Russell & Clarkson. LeBron, MJ, Magic weren't good shooters either when they came in to the league, you can learn that. Also, Simmons and Russell were teammates in high school so they have good chemistry. This would be a no-brainer for the Lakers.

2-ONE-5
03-15-2016, 04:54 PM
YOU ARE FAR MORE VERSED THAN I AM IN ANALYTICS...
But I will say this...Last night's game is my point in a nutshell.
Lavine scores 28 with a -8 5 fouls and nothing else...
Wiggins scores 22 and nothing else...
KAT 17 and 10...
Rubio 17 asssits...
and you lose to the worst team in the NBA since the All star break...

Alot of fluffy stats with nothing to show for it...

Now if KAT is everything you all are claiming...why can't he carry the team to wins???
If KAT is a superstar STUD...why can't he will his team to more wins than 21 at this juncture???
I don't remember the last big man superstar that couldn't will his team to some victories...and it's not a lack of surrounding talent...

The Wolves are filled with players that don't impact the game effectively to win...
Some will blame the coach.....But Lavine and Wiggins have been boom or busts prospects since HS and College...no secret there....
Minny has started Wiggins and KAT from day 1.
Lavine has gotten alot of chances to prove himself...and I actually like how Mitchell has started all 3 with Rubio....makes sense...
Lavine is a gym rat some say..."The staffers need to run him out"...What;s he doing?? practicing dunks I'm sure...
Wiggins is a zombie on the court...No instincts at all...no motor...no real skillset...no polished moves...he just plays...
I like Lavine...But I don't see how his game translates effectively...He needs to get bigger and stronger...Is he Lou Williams? No...doesn't have that kind of game...Is he another Jamal Crawford? Again, I don't see that kind of guile in his game...Not a smart player...


Some are asking how can I assume LA's trio works harder than Minny's trio?
Well, lets look.
Jordan Clarkson had to work his way into his position as a 46th pick..He hits the gym...adds muscles..continues to refine his game as the competition caught up to him...excellent in the paint...has become a very reliable shooter..why are his assists down? He plays more off the ball now...as a SG or combo...
Julius Randle broke his leg last year...and was benched this season...adds muscle...loses weight...Has game off of the dribble, in the post and will eventually have a nice outside game...again adversity...
D'Russelll was benched this season...adds muscle...shot is smoother...more aggressive on the court...
again has faced adversity...

Byron Scott has made his young guys work...Our last loss to NYK, he benched the starters the whole 4th quarter....for perceived lack of sustained effort...


Again Minny and LA have horrible records for 2 different reasons... Minny is underachieving...
Minny fans were going crazy when they started 8-8...Now all of a sudden, we were supposed to be bad... If KAT
is the beast you all claim, he should be leading this team to victory...
As of now...I see alot of fluff but not a whole lot of substance... IMO

Minny KAT #1 Wiggins #1 Lavine #13 (fk me he whispered when drafted by Minny)
LAL Randle #7 Russell #2 Clarkson #46

SMH...Kudos Mitch Kupchak



leading contender for post of the year.

Monta is beast
03-15-2016, 04:58 PM
Dude with the purple writing is a homer. His argument to begin with was that the lakers have the harder workers..smh. everyone who knows basketball will tell you its minesota and it isnt close. End of discussion. Im a warriors fan have been since claxton, foyle, murphy etc. I know basketball i feel like allot of ppl on here do to obviously, but some ppl get to caught up in there own team.

Monta is beast
03-15-2016, 04:59 PM
leading contender for post of the year.

Bruh if psd had shaqtin a fool this dude is on it

mngopher35
03-15-2016, 05:06 PM
YOU ARE FAR MORE VERSED THAN I AM IN ANALYTICS...
But I will say this...Last night's game is my point in a nutshell.
Lavine scores 28 with a -8 5 fouls and nothing else...
Wiggins scores 22 and nothing else...
KAT 17 and 10...
Rubio 17 asssits...
and you lose to the worst team in the NBA since the All star break...

Alot of fluffy stats with nothing to show for it...


Again you just look at minor things here and there while ignoring the entire context. Young teams lose on a regular basis, it is happening with the Lakers as well. What happened literally the game before this? We beat OKC on a buzzer beater.

If you want to go that route Lakers last game the lost to the Knicks while your trio combined for 23 points (9/30 shooting, under 33%), 13 rebounds and 5 assists. Simply calling out single games means very little but at least our players were productive in the one you did.


[B][FONT=Tahoma][SIZE=3][COLOR="#4B0082"]Now if KAT is everything you all are claiming...why can't he carry the team to wins???
If KAT is a superstar STUD...why can't he will his team to more wins than 21 at this juncture???
I don't remember the last big man superstar that couldn't will his team to some victories...and it's not a lack of surrounding talent...

Wanna know what Lebron did when he joined the cavs? Missed the playoffs back to back years and he was considered more ready than Towns while also being one of the best prospects ever (coming in Towns was the potential and Okafor was supposed to have that immediate impact). He was amazing for a rookie butthese guys don't come in and start playing HOF level immediately (although he did increase the wins by more than Towns will from last season, again top 7 player ever). Wanna know what happened when Clarkson increased his minutes from last season and you added Russell/Randle? You got likely got worse in the win column (SRS has dropped and likely stays below as well) because young players rarely impact it very much. We are on track to match/surpass the predicted record set for us while the Lakers are behind theirs. Not that I think it means much just talking to your point here.


The Wolves are filled with players that don't impact the game effectively to win...
Some will blame the coach.....But Lavine and Wiggins have been boom or busts prospects since HS and College...no secret there....
Minny has started Wiggins and KAT from day 1.
Lavine has gotten alot of chances to prove himself...and I actually like how Mitchell has started all 3 with Rubio....makes sense...
Lavine is a gym rat some say..."The staffers need to run him out"...What;s he doing?? practicing dunks I'm sure...
Wiggins is a zombie on the court...No instincts at all...no motor...no real skillset...no polished moves...he just plays...
I like Lavine...But I don't see how his game translates effectively...He needs to get bigger and stronger...Is he Lou Williams? No...doesn't have that kind of game...Is he another Jamal Crawford? Again, I don't see that kind of guile in his game...Not a smart player...

Almost all opinion and overall pretty hilarious, feel free to respond to the actual point I made in my previous post. I get you like you players but there is a reason so many are calling out some things you are saying. You are letting your bias get in the way of an actual evaluation/analysis. Wiggins/Lavine are definitely raw but as I showed before they have been improving overall. Replace Wiggins with Russell and Randle with Lavine in your sentences.


Some are asking how can I assume LA's trio works harder than Minny's trio?
Well, lets lookd.
Jordan Clarkson had to work his way into his position as a 46th pick..He hits the gym...adds muscles
Julius Randle broke his leg last year...and was benched this season...adds muscle...loses weight...Has game off of the dribble, in the post and will eventually have a nice outside game...again adversity...
D'Russelll was benched this season...adds muscle...shot is smoother...more aggressive on the court...
again has faced adversity...

Byron Scott has made his young guys work...Our last loss to NYK, he benched the starters the whole 4th quarter....for perceived lack of sustained effort...

Yet all that work lead to the decreased stats/impact I pointed out for Clarkson in my post while Wiggins the zombie and Lavine only working on his dunks lead to improved stats/impact. Again you have nothing to really base any of this on other than your own opinion which at this point is just clearly biased. They were benched because they weren't producing either like I pointed out as well. Why does not producing or a lack of effort leading to benching proving your point? If that happened in the PHX game you mentioned you would have jumped all over it. Again though these guys are all young so I won't harp on these minor details like you keep trying to for Minny.

On top of this I also covered it in an earlier post but when you pick someone based off potential more than current impact (at least Lavine was arguably even all 3 were as high as they were due more to that) they likely will take time to develop. As my earlier post pointed out we are starting to see that potential shine through so adding to the stats/impact we also have that going for us. Clarkson was a great surprise but again I covered his decline in impact and he is already olderthan any of these guys. That potential is very important when talking about 20 year olds and their future (I guess part of this is to the last thing you said too but it's a major part of drafting you can't just ignore).



Again Minny and LA have horrible records for 2 different reasons... Minny is underachieving...
Minny fans were going crazy when they started 8-8...Now all of a sudden, we were supposed to be bad... If KAT
is the beast you all claim, he should be leading this team to victory...
As of now...I see alot of fluff but not a whole lot of substance... IMO

Minny KAT #1 Wiggins #1 Lavine #13 (fk me he whispered when drafted by Minny)
LAL Randle #7 Russell #2 Clarkson #46

SMH...Kudos Mitch Kupchak



Again let me post this here since I have clearly covered this in a previous post, copy and paste the main part:

This is hindsight at it's best and again not surprising how you twist things. http://www.si.com/nba/2015/07/16/nba...zers-mavericks
Those were the pre-season over/under predictions for each team. Minnesota was set at 23.5 wins and Lakers at 29.9.

http://www.foxsports.com/nba/story/l...-season-092915

Here is another one showing the Vegas odds (more reliable) with Minnesota at 25.5 wins and Lakers at 29.5 wins.

The Lakers were projected to do better but are doing worse. The Wolves were projected to do worse and are doing better/as projected. If anyone has underachieved here it is the Lakers (maybe they should work harder amirite?) while Wolves are "on track". I won't harp on this issue because I understand that coaching is a big issue for both teams and young players don't shoot a bottom team into the playoff convo right away but stop twisting so many things lol.

Rocco007
03-15-2016, 05:40 PM
Again you just look at minor things here and there while ignoring the entire context. Young teams lose on a regular basis, it is happening with the Lakers as well. What happened literally the game before this? We beat OKC on a buzzer beater.

So Lavine and Wiggins are still raw as 2nd year players...ok,
And KAT is still a rookie ...ok...
Russell is a rookie...playing the toughest position in the NBA...
KAT, it can be argued is playing the easiest position in the game? Yes/No?

RAW sometimes is code for "no bball IQ" or a dumb*ss player...see Gerald Green...I think he is still RAW...

Randle is essentially a rookie...He's averaging a double double...He plays like a grown *ss man...an amazing athlete for his size... easy to overlook his age...#manchild

So I hear a lot of excuses for being dumb or unmotivated...errr young or raw...but none of it applies to the Lakers???

Do not compare KAT to Lebron...Let's compare KAT to Anthony Davis...The most recent celebrated young big...

He doesn't effect the game like AD...

Does KAT even demand a double team???

I don't understand the KAT "STUD" monicker...unless we're talking fluffy stats that don't translate into wins...

Hawkeye15
03-15-2016, 05:42 PM
So Lavine and Wiggins are still raw as 2nd year players...ok,
And KAT is still a rookie ...ok...
Russell is a rookie...playing the toughest position in the NBA...
KAT, it can be argued is playing the easiest position in the game? Yes/No?

RAW sometimes is code for "no bball IQ" or a dumb*ss player...see Gerald Green...I think he is still RAW...

Randle is essentially a rookie...He's averaging a double double...He plays like a grown *ss man...an amazing athlete for his size... easy to overlook his age...#manchild

So I hear a lot of excuses for being dumb or unmotivated...errr young or raw...but none of it applies to the Lakers???

Do not compare KAT to Lebron...Let's compare KAT to Anthony Davis...The most recent celebrated young big...

He doesn't effect the game like AD...

Does KAT even demand a double team???

I don't understand the KAT "STUD" monicker...unless we're talking fluffy stats that don't translate into wins...





go put KAT's rookie season next to AD's. KAT's kills his bud. He is a superstar within 2 years.

Rocco007
03-15-2016, 06:08 PM
go put KAT's rookie season next to AD's. KAT's kills his bud. He is a superstar within 2 years.

Fluff..There's nothing behind those stats...No one goes into a Minny game thinking they have to stop KAT...
Once that happens, you will see a drop in production...
Anthony Davis had a presence on the floor, even as a Rookie...He only shot 10 times a game...and played less minutes than KAT...
But he had a presence that KAT does not possess...and never will...

How are you a superstar STUD when the opposition doesn't care to stop or control you??? Does KAT force double teams??? I need someone to let me know...

More-Than-Most
03-15-2016, 06:18 PM
Passing: Simmons
Post game: Simmons
Rebounding: Simmons
Defense: Simmons
Basketball IQ: Simmons
Size: Simmons
Shooting: Ingram

The only question mark for Simmons is his killer instinct. There is no way the Lakers pick Ingram if they get the 1st pick. People are overreacting to Simmons' play lately because his standards are so high. There is nothing wrong with him playing in the paint because the Lakers already have good shooters in Russell & Clarkson. LeBron, MJ, Magic weren't good shooters either when they came in to the league, you can learn that. Also, Simmons and Russell were teammates in high school so they have good chemistry. This would be a no-brainer for the Lakers.

Really? Because those 2 things esp the IQ is what people are so down on him about on top of not playing anyone worth a damn and having the worst entitled pos attitude in the world.

mngopher35
03-15-2016, 06:22 PM
So Lavine and Wiggins are still raw as 2nd year players...ok,
And KAT is still a rookie ...ok...
Russell is a rookie...playing the toughest position in the NBA...
KAT, it can be argued is playing the easiest position in the game? Yes/No?

RAW sometimes is code for "no bball IQ" or a dumb*ss player...see Gerald Green...I think he is still RAW...

First of all we have recently seen young rookie pg's have good rookie seasons yet not improve a ton moving forward the next season (Clarkson, MCW in last few years made first team without much improvement following). Not every situation is the same and I like Russells potential more but you just keep on ignoring context to say whatever your opinion is. I could say that Russell will be the exact same purely off biased opinion and those previous instances but unlike you I am not here to twist any little thing I can.

Next it is true that raw players don't always pan out but out of curiosity did Gerald Green up his points per 36 by 4 pts while simultaneously increasing his scoring efficiency year 1 to 2? Lavine did. Did he improve his overall ortg as well as PER/WS/BPM pretty significantly? Lavine did. It isn't just that Lavine has potential it is that we have already seen that potential turn into bigger impact from year one to two so it gives reason to think that may continue since he was drafted high based off said potential.


Randle is essentially a rookie...He's averaging a double double...He plays like a grown *ss man...an amazing athlete for his size... easy to overlook his age...#manchild

So I hear a lot of excuses for being dumb or unmotivated...errr young or raw...but none of it applies to the Lakers???

What in the world are you talking about? I have consistently refrained from using pure opinion, twisting info, and making things up as I go to discredit Lakers players and prop up the Wolves like you have done. I even stated I really like the potential of Russell/Randle, in fact this is the first time since Shaq I made a Lakers franchise in 2k due to them haha. All of these guys have potential but based on current production and the improvements we have seen from year 1-2 the Wolves have the better trio (that isn't even mostly to do with Wiggins/Lavine, Towns is easily the main factor/difference).


Do not compare KAT to Lebron...Let's compare KAT to Anthony Davis...The most recent celebrated young big...

He doesn't effect the game like AD...

Does KAT even demand a double team???

I don't understand the KAT "STUD" monicker...unless we're talking fluffy stats that don't translate into wins...





Is this the same AD who had very similar stats to Towns his rookie season (Ad with less volume, similar efficiency, mix in advanced stats)? The same AD who's team improved by 6 wins his rookie season from previous year (Wolves currently at 5)? Ok that seems like a fair comparison, looks like Towns is headed for a top 5 player in the future right? I'm not sure I get what the point of this was other than to point out Towns is clearly the best of this entire bunch so far (which is the main reason Wolves are most peoples choice).

Rocco007
03-15-2016, 06:46 PM
First of all we have recently seen young rookie pg's have good rookie seasons yet not improve a ton moving forward the next season (Clarkson, MCW in last few years made first team without much improvement following). Not every situation is the same and I like Russells potential more but you just keep on ignoring context to say whatever your opinion is. I could say that Russell will be the exact same purely off biased opinion and those previous instances but unlike you I am not here to twist any little thing I can.

Next it is true that raw players don't always pan out but out of curiosity did Gerald Green up his points per 36 by 4 pts while simultaneously increasing his scoring efficiency year 1 to 2? Lavine did. Did he improve his overall ortg as well as PER/WS/BPM pretty significantly? Lavine did. It isn't just that Lavine has potential it is that we have already seen that potential turn into bigger impact from year one to two so it gives reason to think that may continue since he was drafted high based off said potential.



What in the world are you talking about? I have consistently refrained from using pure opinion, twisting info, and making things up as I go to discredit Lakers players and prop up the Wolves like you have done. I even stated I really like the potential of Russell/Randle, in fact this is the first time since Shaq I made a Lakers franchise in 2k due to them haha. All of these guys have potential but based on current production and the improvements we have seen from year 1-2 the Wolves have the better trio (that isn't even mostly to do with Wiggins/Lavine, Towns is easily the main factor/difference).



Is this the same AD who had very similar stats to Towns his rookie season (Ad with less volume, similar efficiency, mix in advanced stats)? The same AD who's team improved by 6 wins his rookie season from previous year (Wolves currently at 5)? Ok that seems like a fair comparison, looks like Towns is headed for a top 5 player in the future right? I'm not sure I get what the point of this was other than to point out Towns is clearly the best of this entire bunch so far (which is the main reason Wolves are most peoples choice).

Forget stats...
KAT is not AD....not even in the early going and definately won't be what AD is today....Again, does anyone go into Minny games thinking they need to stop or control KAT? I have not heard...even when LAL plays Minny...KAT is not the monster you are trying to build up...I want to know why Minny isn't winning more games...They started 8-8 and have won 13 games since...WHY??? You have a beast in KAT...

More-Than-Most
03-15-2016, 07:04 PM
Forget stats...
KAT is not AD....not even in the early going and definately won't be what AD is today....Again, does anyone go into Minny games thinking they need to stop or control KAT? I have not heard...even when LAL plays Minny...KAT is not the monster you are trying to build up...I want to know why Minny isn't winning more games...They started 8-8 and have won 13 games since...WHY??? You have a beast in KAT...


He is a rookie O.o
One Rookie Nomatter how great cant force a team to win his team a ton of games O.o
Curry was a guy nobody thought would ever be the best player in basketball and look at him today
AD is better of course but lets not act like KAT wont progress and further become a beast.

The Year AD entered the league his team won 27 games with him having a less impressive season than towns.. AD then became a beast the next year and his team managed to win 7 more games then when he wasnt great at all... He then became a top 5 player in all of basketball and his team won a whole 45 games and that same top 5 player in basketball now has his team on pace to win 29 or so games... This is what happens when we try to use wins/losses for one player like AD who is a great 1 way player right now.

mngopher35
03-15-2016, 07:06 PM
Forget stats...
KAT is not AD....not even in the early going and definately won't be what AD is today....Again, does anyone go into Minny games thinking they need to stop or control KAT? I have not heard...even when LAL plays Minny...KAT is not the monster you are trying to build up...I want to know why Minny isn't winning more games...They started 8-8 and have won 13 games since...WHY??? You have a beast in KAT...


Is this a joke? Not only do you have yet to address the points I have made in basically every post but you keep ignoring what I say to question me on the same issue and push biased opinion. Is it just that you agree with everything else I have said so far then? Good, glad we agree.

Where in the world do you get the idea that teams don't worry about Towns but did with AD? Even last year he wasn't receiving major attention to the degree of the true elite players, he plays within the flow more often than not (haven't watched enough to know if that has changed since they are bad this yr). Towns does get doubled but certainly isn't at the elite of the elite as a rookie. For reference though Davis was assisted on 76.5% of his shots as a rookie while Towns is on 66.6% of his. Again not sure where this idea of Davis being a guy to dump it to and create is coming from but as a rookie he probably did it less than Towns.

Why have the Lakers only won 14 games total with all of their young talent? Why did Pelicans only win 27 games Davis rookie year? We both agree Lebron is better than Towns so why did it take him 2 seasons before making the playoffs? Could it be that as I said before young players don't impact the win column to a major degree most of the time. Maybe having arguably the worst coach in the league plays into it as well. Again feel free to actually read and respond to all my counter points in the previous posts unless you agree with them (also to ensure I don't have to keep covering these things multiple times).

IKnowHoops
03-15-2016, 08:40 PM
Forget stats...
KAT is not AD....not even in the early going and definately won't be what AD is today....Again, does anyone go into Minny games thinking they need to stop or control KAT? I have not heard...even when LAL plays Minny...KAT is not the monster you are trying to build up...I want to know why Minny isn't winning more games...They started 8-8 and have won 13 games since...WHY??? You have a beast in KAT...


Find me a 20 year old monster not named Lebron/Shaq/Kareem

Find me a player that has put up numbers like Kat at 20 who didn't become a top 3 player in the NBA

Find me a 20 year old who could will his team to playoff success not named Kareem


Kobe is arguabley the second best SG ever. He was dog ish his second year compared to what he would become. Take a breath and come back to reality.

jerellh528
03-15-2016, 10:21 PM
Find me a 20 year old monster not named Lebron/Shaq/Kareem

Find me a player that has put up numbers like Kat at 20 who didn't become a top 3 player in the NBA

Find me a 20 year old who could will his team to playoff success not named Kareem


Kobe is arguabley the second best SG ever. He was dog ish his second year compared to what he would become. Take a breath and come back to reality.

I agree that KAT is going to be a beast and he's putting up a historic rookie season and probably will be a top 5 player in the league one day. But you contradict yourself using Kobe as your example lol, prolly not the best choice to use for a rookie compared to what he would become because it totally undermines what you're trying to say

IKnowHoops
03-15-2016, 10:27 PM
I agree that KAT is going to be a beast and he's putting up a historic rookie season and probably will be a top 5 player in the league one day. But you contradict yourself using Kobe as your example lol, prolly not the best choice to use for a rookie compared to what he would become because it totally undermines what you're trying to say

Please elaborate on how I am undermining my argument? You must not understand my argument.

jerellh528
03-15-2016, 10:30 PM
Please elaborate on how I am undermining my argument? You must not understand my argument.

I prolly don't understand your argument honestly. Just forget I said anything

IKnowHoops
03-15-2016, 10:46 PM
I prolly don't understand your argument honestly. Just forget I said anything

LOL...The point is, Talented young rookies who work hard are nowhere near their prime at 18,19,20 years old. They get better.

Rocco007
03-16-2016, 01:38 PM
Despite the struggles, Kings' star DeMarcus Cousins still thinks the Lakers have a bright future ahead of them.


"I love Julius' game," Cousins told assembled media after the game (via Bob Garcia of Sports Out West), "He's very talented, very versatile. The great thing about it, when he puts his game all together, he's going to be a problem in this league."

DeMarcus Cousins: "The whole young (Lakers) core is very talented. D'Angelo is coming along, Jordan is coming along. It's just about time."

DeMarcus Cousins: "It's a matter of time before it's clicking for all three of those guys (DA, JC, Randle). They're going to be a problem."
:smoking:

greg_ory_2005
03-16-2016, 01:49 PM
Minny.

Rocco007
03-16-2016, 01:50 PM
Am I the only one that feels Porzingis will be more dominant and a bigger problem than KAT once he grows into his NBA body?
I've been more impressed by the Euro kid...he's a bigger star than KAT already...
So if we are looking at pure stats...how much better is KAT than Porzingis and Okafor???

I mean we are creating a beast that doesn't exist...If Okafor played for a functioning Franchise, his stats would be better....the kid has been depressed...still puts up decent numbers...

Hawkeye15
03-16-2016, 01:52 PM
Am I the only one that feels Porzingis will be more dominant and a bigger problem than KAT once he grows into his NBA body?
I've been more impressed by the Euro kid...he's a bigger star than KAT already...
So if we are looking at pure stats...how much better is KAT than Porzingis and Okafor???

I mean we are creating a beast that doesn't exist...If Okafor played for a functioning Franchise, his stats would be better....the kid has been depressed...still puts up decent numbers...

the stats have already been shown to you. You don't understand them. So why continue to ask?

Statistically, KAT projects as a superstar.

jerellh528
03-16-2016, 01:55 PM
Am I the only one that feels Porzingis will be more dominant and a bigger problem than KAT once he grows into his NBA body?
I've been more impressed by the Euro kid...he's a bigger star than KAT already...
So if we are looking at pure stats...how much better is KAT than Porzingis and Okafor???

I mean we are creating a beast that doesn't exist...If Okafor played for a functioning Franchise, his stats would be better....the kid has been depressed...still puts up decent numbers...

No. Porzingis and okafor don't hold a candle to KAT

Rocco007
03-16-2016, 02:11 PM
Is this a joke? Not only do you have yet to address the points I have made in basically every post but you keep ignoring what I say to question me on the same issue and push biased opinion. Is it just that you agree with everything else I have said so far then? Good, glad we agree.

Where in the world do you get the idea that teams don't worry about Towns but did with AD? Even last year he wasn't receiving major attention to the degree of the true elite players, he plays within the flow more often than not (haven't watched enough to know if that has changed since they are bad this yr). Towns does get doubled but certainly isn't at the elite of the elite as a rookie. For reference though Davis was assisted on 76.5% of his shots as a rookie while Towns is on 66.6% of his. Again not sure where this idea of Davis being a guy to dump it to and create is coming from but as a rookie he probably did it less than Towns.

Why have the Lakers only won 14 games total with all of their young talent? Why did Pelicans only win 27 games Davis rookie year? We both agree Lebron is better than Towns so why did it take him 2 seasons before making the playoffs? Could it be that as I said before young players don't impact the win column to a major degree most of the time. Maybe having arguably the worst coach in the league plays into it as well. Again feel free to actually read and respond to all my counter points in the previous posts unless you agree with them (also to ensure I don't have to keep covering these things multiple times).

I will be honest...You send out too much info at once for me to read through entirely...My eyes start to go cross eyed after a while...so I take cliff notes...

You make good points...and I will say this is a matter of opinion for the most part...stats don't tell the whole story...I personally don't think much of Wiggins as a player...from a star standpoint...He will coast through his career and make a ton of money...I doubt he ever makes an All star game...I see him as a poor man's Rudy Gay type player...Young players don't have to be polished by age 20/21/22, but they should show desire...See another Canadian lazy player...picked #1 by Cleveland out of UNLV...He's out of the league right now...

As far as the Lakers' and their 14 wins...
We are a proud organization and we would never tank on purpose to the average fan's eye...But I do think we are not playing our best rotations and using that as a vehicle to play competively but lose games at the end...
For example. Most LA fans will tell you that Tarik Black should be seeing alot more minutes...Black at 5 and Randle at 4 is a bruising front lineup...for the most part this season they have kept him under wraps...No real reason given...Hibbert should be playing no more than 15 mins a game at this point...It's obvious the NBA is going in a different direction but we are still sticking to the script...
Also Larry Nance jr has been begging to play next to Randle...
Finally Scott has asserted him at the SF slot and has benched Swaggy P...
If the Lakers l had rolled out out this line up on a consistant basis... we would be much better record wise right now...just on pure hustle and speed...
and then we have Kobe...who the Lakers are sitting periodically with bs injuries...All designed to lose games...or at least not put us in the best position to win games...very evident when you look at how we play vs the good teams in the NBA...
So again, Minny and LA are having 2 differently bad seasons...

sjbirds
03-16-2016, 02:23 PM
Is this a joke? Not only do you have yet to address the points I have made in basically every post but you keep ignoring what I say to question me on the same issue and push biased opinion. Is it just that you agree with everything else I have said so far then? Good, glad we agree.

Where in the world do you get the idea that teams don't worry about Towns but did with AD? Even last year he wasn't receiving major attention to the degree of the true elite players, he plays within the flow more often than not (haven't watched enough to know if that has changed since they are bad this yr). Towns does get doubled but certainly isn't at the elite of the elite as a rookie. For reference though Davis was assisted on 76.5% of his shots as a rookie while Towns is on 66.6% of his. Again not sure where this idea of Davis being a guy to dump it to and create is coming from but as a rookie he probably did it less than Towns.

Why have the Lakers only won 14 games total with all of their young talent? Why did Pelicans only win 27 games Davis rookie year? We both agree Lebron is better than Towns so why did it take him 2 seasons before making the playoffs? Could it be that as I said before young players don't impact the win column to a major degree most of the time. Maybe having arguably the worst coach in the league plays into it as well. Again feel free to actually read and respond to all my counter points in the previous posts unless you agree with them (also to ensure I don't have to keep covering these things multiple times).

I will be honest...You send out too much info at once for me to read through entirely...My eyes start to go cross eyed after a while...so I take cliff notes...

You make good points...and I will say this is a matter of opinion for the most part...stats don't tell the whole story...I personally don't think much of Wiggins as a player...from a star standpoint...He will coast through his career and make a ton of money...I doubt he ever makes an All star game...I see him as a poor man's Rudy Gay type player...Young players don't have to be polished by age 20/21/22, but they should show desire...See another Canadian lazy player...picked #1 by Cleveland out of UNLV...He's out of the league right now...

As far as the Lakers' and their 14 wins...
We are a proud organization and we would never tank on purpose to the average fan's eye...But I do think we are not playing our best rotations and using that as a vehicle to play competively but lose games at the end...
For example. Most LA fans will tell you that Tarik Black should be seeing alot more minutes...Black at 5 and Randle at 4 is a bruising front lineup...for the most part this season they have kept him under wraps...No real reason given...Hibbert should be playing no more than 15 mins a game at this point...It's obvious the NBA is going in a different direction but we are still sticking to the script...
Also Larry Nance jr has been begging to play next to Randle...
Finally Scott has asserted him at the SF slot and has benched Swaggy P...
If the Lakers l had rolled out out this line up on a consistant basis... we would be much better record wise right now...just on pure hustle and speed...
and then we have Kobe...who the Lakers are sitting periodically with bs injuries...All designed to lose games...or at least not put us in the best position to win games...very evident when you look at how we play vs the good teams in the NBA...
So again, Minny and LA are having 2 differently bad seasons...


Didn't you say Russell would be like magic his rookie year n carry the Lakers to the playoffs?

HouRealCoach
03-16-2016, 02:29 PM
Minnesota easy... I'll take Greek freak and Parker over LA

Rocco007
03-16-2016, 02:30 PM
the stats have already been shown to you. You don't understand them. So why continue to ask?

Statistically, KAT projects as a superstar.

...So that I better understand where you are coming from...Are you a Minny fan or just a KAT?

Rocco007
03-16-2016, 02:33 PM
If you are a Minny fan, being frustrated with Wiggins is a given...lol...so let's stop the BS...You know what I'm talking about...

Hawkeye15
03-16-2016, 02:34 PM
...So that I better understand where you are coming from...Are you a Minny fan or just a KAT?

Minnesota. And NBA. I also don't wear homer glasses, which is easy to do when your team sucks forever.

Pull up KAT against Duncan, Ewing, Zo, Davis, any of them. He is having as good of a rookie year as any big man in the last 25 years. This coming from someone who is very hard on Wolves players, because of the long track record of suckitude.

Hawkeye15
03-16-2016, 02:37 PM
If you are a Minny fan, being frustrated with Wiggins is a given...lol...so let's stop the BS...You know what I'm talking about...

I am not frustrated with Wiggins, I saw his complacency in college. He probably tops out as a very good scoring, 1-1 defender. His total lack of rebounding annoys me, as does his defense, team wise. That being said, he is 20, and still learning. I don't see superstar with Wiggins, but I do see a player who can be a big part of a contending team, and score 20-25 a night on above average efficiency and make life difficult for an isolation wing scorer on the other end.

I still take him over anything the Lakers have until proven otherwise, simply due to his athletic potential, and what we do know about him. But, that is because I have no idea where he tops out. He has the body/athletic ability to be elite, but I don't think he mentally has what it takes, so he probably ends up a low level all star for years.

Rocco007
03-16-2016, 02:45 PM
Minnesota. And NBA. I also don't wear homer glasses, which is easy to do when your team sucks forever.

Pull up KAT against Duncan, Ewing, Zo, Davis, any of them. He is having as good of a rookie year as any big man in the last 25 years. This coming from someone who is very hard on Wolves players, because of the long track record of suckitude.

Then you should be excited about KAT...
Bottomline, the eye test still tells me...LA's trio will be the better CORE group moving forward...

I don't see the hunger in any of your players like I do in LA...IMO

Statistically, Randle with his double doubles and Russell for a 19 year old PG are both having historically good first seasons...It's a scoring league now...Okafor is still averaging 17 a game...what is he???

Hawkeye15
03-16-2016, 02:49 PM
Then you should be excited about KAT...
Bottomline, the eye test still tells me...LA's trio will be the better CORE group moving forward...

I don't see the hunger in any of your players like I do in LA...IMO

Statistically, Randle with his double doubles and Russell for a 19 year old PG are both having historically good first seasons...It's a scoring league now...Okafor is still averaging 17 a game...what is he???


well recorded results don't agree with your eyes. And you haven't watched KAT play if you don't think he has "hunger" or whatever you deem it.

How about waiting 2 years, then revisiting when it matters? 19-20 year olds don't win NBA games. Better to wait a couple years and see where they are at then.

I will take Minnesota's core over any young core in the NBA currently (by young I mean their key guys are extremely young).

I am more excited as a Wolves fan because it looks like we have a roster that once it develops, won't top out as a 5 seed that gets shredded round 1 every year. Bout it.

btw, Towns has more double doubles than Randle, outscores him, rebounds at the same rate, is a much better defender, shooter, and passer. Wiggins is the 4th fastest player to 2500 points in the modern NBA. The Wolves will be the first team in history to have 3 players 21 and under be their top 3 scorers.

The only player doing anything historical is Towns.

mngopher35
03-16-2016, 03:20 PM
I will be honest...You send out too much info at once for me to read through entirely...My eyes start to go cross eyed after a while...so I take cliff notes...

I am mostly just responding to the constant opinions with little/twisted basis you are throwing out there, if you want a discussion you should at least read what is being said before repeating the same B.S. over and over. It wouldn't be so much if you actually responded to the points but I have to keep repeating the same things because that's what you are doing (and I actually respond to what you say).


You make good points...and I will say this is a matter of opinion for the most part...stats don't tell the whole story...I personally don't think much of Wiggins as a player...from a star standpoint...He will coast through his career and make a ton of money...I doubt he ever makes an All star game...I see him as a poor man's Rudy Gay type player...Young players don't have to be polished by age 20/21/22, but they should show desire...See another Canadian lazy player...picked #1 by Cleveland out of UNLV...He's out of the league right now...

Your analysis, even outside of stats, continues to be ridiculous. If you can't see the obvious difference between Bennett and Wiggins then it just goes to show your own ability to judge bball players. I use the stats to back up my opinions and because you mis-use data and information over and over again so I try to make that clear. Again at any time you could respond and point out what said stats are missing but you don't/can't. You blindly move on to the next biased opinion with no backing. I agree they don't tell the whole story when talking about the future especially but they paint a very favorable picture right now for Minnesota and most of our guys are/have been considered high potential since college/draft. To have the combination of better currently with that long thought notion of potential is why this question is so easy for so many. Again I think Lakers young talent is great but this is a comparison to a team with a bit more (well mostly just with Towns who no one here compares with, at least atm).



As far as the Lakers' and their 14 wins...
We are a proud organization and we would never tank on purpose to the average fan's eye...But I do think we are not playing our best rotations and using that as a vehicle to play competively but lose games at the end...
For example. Most LA fans will tell you that Tarik Black should be seeing alot more minutes...Black at 5 and Randle at 4 is a bruising front lineup...for the most part this season they have kept him under wraps...No real reason given...Hibbert should be playing no more than 15 mins a game at this point...It's obvious the NBA is going in a different direction but we are still sticking to the script...
Also Larry Nance jr has been begging to play next to Randle...
Finally Scott has asserted him at the SF slot and has benched Swaggy P...
If the Lakers l had rolled out out this line up on a consistant basis... we would be much better record wise right now...just on pure hustle and speed...
and then we have Kobe...who the Lakers are sitting periodically with bs injuries...All designed to lose games...or at least not put us in the best position to win games...very evident when you look at how we play vs the good teams in the NBA...
So again, Minny and LA are having 2 differently bad seasons...



Except you ignore the context of Minnesota's season under Mitchell while giving the Lakers a free pass for their worse record do to coaching type issues and opinion. We run the most outdated offense in the league and Mitchell is not good at rotations himself including playing players out of position (Lavine is better as a 2 guard and most of our fans were saying it from the start, that can hurt an individual statistically and the team).

In total you have a better win % with Kobe sitting (although I won't say worse with him since many were easy teams, even though you did lose with him to at least one of those teams). He is no longer a difference maker so pointing that out is just another example of your bias being used as an argument (even some wins with him he plays poorly). You mention how you play against the truly good teams but I don't get the point because outside of the win vs. GS and Boston you lose those games (and only a couple more were within like 5 points while many were blowouts). Again it is always just random opinion from you.

I get that you like your team and have high hopes but this is a comparison between the Lakers and Wolves so you need to be consistent instead of letting that bias blind your judgement to favor LA. It isn't so much your opinion on the topic, it is how often you ignore actual facts while twisting or mis-representing others and ignoring the entire picture.

So far you have used minor statistical drops to bash Wiggins while ignoring the overall improvement he has made. Done basically the same with Lavine. Clarkson has a much bigger drop all around statistically, without those improvements, and is older but you laughed that idea off. You claimed we were playoff bound this season yet pre-season predictions and vegas lines show LA was clearly expected to do better. You bring up a single game for Minnesota where our players performed solidly while ignoring our most recent game before that (beating OKC) and even the most recent Lakers games. You ignore the praise players like Towns/Lavine have gotten for their work ethic and continue to call Minny players lazy and LA players hard workers (ignoring lack of improvement from Clarkson to use as an example of his work ethic). You bring up centers/pg's while ignoring the multiple examples of strong rookie pg (or just main handler) seasons where they didn't improve in following years. You compared Towns to AD which he matches up favorably only to try and make a claim AD is this guy who creates/garners attention even as a rookie which just wasn't true (while ignoring Towns actually is more of a creator in comparison to rookie season). You have completely ignored how other elite players did not impact the win column yet expect Towns to get us to the playoffs (even though we both admit he is worse than Lebron who it took 2 years). In this post you bring up Kobe sitting as a difference maker for winning despite actually having a better record when he sits. There is more but you get the point I hope, just stop with the bs.

Rocco007
03-16-2016, 03:23 PM
well recorded results don't agree with your eyes. And you haven't watched KAT play if you don't think he has "hunger" or whatever you deem it.

How about waiting 2 years, then revisiting when it matters? 19-20 year olds don't win NBA games. Better to wait a couple years and see where they are at then.

I will take Minnesota's core over any young core in the NBA currently (by young I mean their key guys are extremely young).

I am more excited as a Wolves fan because it looks like we have a roster that once it develops, won't top out as a 5 seed that gets shredded round 1 every year. Bout it.

btw, Towns has more double doubles than Randle, outscores him, rebounds at the same rate, is a much better defender, shooter, and passer. Wiggins is the 4th fastest player to 2500 points in the modern NBA. The Wolves will be the first team in history to have 3 players 21 and under be their top 3 scorers.

The only player doing anything historical is Towns.

You say I haven't watched Minny play...You haven't watched LA games either... StarPlayers around the league are talking about our young guns with respect ...WTH is talking about Wiggins and Lavine if it doesn't involve a fastbreak and a windmill dunk?
Curry on DLO...
"He has the total skillset. Will be great for this league moving forward"

Rocco007
03-16-2016, 03:29 PM
Towns has 9 more double doubles than Randle...38 to 29? Not sure how updated that is...All star Draymond Green has 26???...
Keep in mind that Randle was coming off the bench for a while...and Towns takes almost 4 more shots a game...
Per 36
Randle 15 and 13...
Towns 20 and 12...

Man..Look it there...
The Monster vs the nobody...

mngopher35
03-16-2016, 03:31 PM
You say I haven't watched Minny play...You haven't watched LA games either... StarPlayers around the league are talking about our young guns with respect ...WTH is talking about Wiggins and Lavine if it doesn't involve a fastbreak and a windmill dunk?
Curry on DLO...
"He has the total skillset. Will be great for this league moving forward"

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/12/kobe-bryant-andrew-wiggins-scoring-record

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/02/kobe-bryant-andrew-wiggins-michael-jordan-same-moves-video

"It was like looking at a reflection of myself 19 years ago" Kobe Bryant on a match-up with Wiggins.

mngopher35
03-16-2016, 03:38 PM
Towns has 8 more double doubles than Randle...39 to 29? Not sure how updated that is...
Keep in mind that Randle was coming off the bench for a while...and Towns takes almost 4 more shots a game...
Per 36
Randle 15 and 13...
Towns 20 and 12...

Man..Look it there...
The Monster vs the nobody...


Randle 43% shooting, .482 TS% 97 ORTG (this is bad since you don't seem to get stats thought I'd help)

Towns 54% shooting, .595 TS%, 112 ORTG (this is very good on top of that added volume he has)

Wanna get into their defensive ability as well?

Rocco007
03-16-2016, 03:40 PM
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/12/kobe-bryant-andrew-wiggins-scoring-record

http://ftw.usatoday.com/2016/02/kobe-bryant-andrew-wiggins-michael-jordan-same-moves-video

"It was like looking at a reflection of myself 19 years ago" Kobe Bryant on a match-up with Wiggins.

Wiggins stole a move....and Kobe was being nice...he's retiring...PLEASE PLEASE don't ever go there again...lol...

“Yeah, it was a strange feeling, because I remember being Andrew Wiggins. I remember playing against Michael my first year. To be here tonight and to play against him, seeing the baby face and the little footwork or little technique things that he’s going to be much sharper at as time goes on — it was like looking at a reflection of myself 19 years ago. It was pretty cool.”

mngopher35
03-16-2016, 03:50 PM
Wiggins stole a move....and Kobe was being nice...he's retiring...PLEASE PLEASE don't ever go there again...lol...

“Yeah, it was a strange feeling, because I remember being Andrew Wiggins. I remember playing against Michael my first year. To be here tonight and to play against him, seeing the baby face and the little footwork or little technique things that he’s going to be much sharper at as time goes on — it was like looking at a reflection of myself 19 years ago. It was pretty cool.”

LOL just another example of your bias, when someone says something about Wiggins now they are being nice. Right after you specifically said people weren't talking about Wiggins yet a current Laker/all time great and someone you mentioned in this thread had! In that quote Kobe references the match up between himself and the GOAT in comparison, great company to be in. He also seems to think Wiggins is improving unlike you...

“The young guys, I just test them out,” Bryant said. “I wanted to see now if he had developed that shot, which he did. It’s fun to be able to see how much game he added.”

That half-spin fade illustrated as much.

“His first year in the league, he was off-balance with it, exposing the ball too much,” Bryant said. “Now that one, it was textbook. Textbook: Hid the ball well, elevated well, faded well. I was impressed.”

Bryant wanted to see if Wiggins had a counter to that move, but with little more than two minutes left in the game and in his career against the Wolves, he never got the chance.

“Next time, if we were caught in the post, I would have tried to force him to the right shoulder, see if he had developed the technique on that one. It’s a joy to watch their growth. He’s improved a lot since I first played him.”

http://www.startribune.com/kobe-giving-going-away-presents/367935871/

Hawkeye15
03-16-2016, 03:56 PM
Durant called Towns a future HOF'er

Rocco007
03-16-2016, 03:58 PM
Randle 43% shooting, .482 TS% 97 ORTG (this is bad since you don't seem to get stats thought I'd help)

Towns 54% shooting, .595 TS%, 112 ORTG (this is very good on top of that added volume he has)

Wanna get into their defensive ability as well?

Well one guy is a monster and the other is a nobody, right?
Randle will bust KAT's ARSE when they play...and he does given his minutes...
Let's see head to head...Lets keep in mind that Towns is listed at 7ft and Randle at 6'9"...


so the Lakers have beaten the Wolves 2 out 3 this season so far...and the one lost to Minny was by 1 point in OT...
Oct 28th 2015
Towns 32 mins 14 pts 12 rebs
Randle 30 mins 15 pts 11 rebs

Dec 9th 2015

Towns 35 mins 26 pts 14 rebs on 19 shots
Randle 30 mins 20 pts 12 rebs on 13 shots

Feb 2nd 2016
Towns 32 mins 14 pts 10 rebs
Randle 32 mins 15 pts 12 rebs

The MONSTER vs the nobody....SMH #2017lakerswillrise

Hawkeye15
03-16-2016, 03:58 PM
Randle 43% shooting, .482 TS% 97 ORTG (this is bad since you don't seem to get stats thought I'd help)

Towns 54% shooting, .595 TS%, 112 ORTG (this is very good on top of that added volume he has)

Wanna get into their defensive ability as well?

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2016&p1=randlju01&y2=2016&p2=townska01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

I didn't realize how inefficient Randle was. Pretty strong rebounder, he and Towns are fairly similar there. Towns blows his doors off everywhere else.

Rocco007
03-16-2016, 04:00 PM
LOL just another example of your bias, when someone says something about Wiggins now they are being nice. Right after you specifically said people weren't talking about Wiggins yet a current Laker/all time great and someone you mentioned in this thread had! In that quote Kobe references the match up between himself and the GOAT in comparison, great company to be in. He also seems to think Wiggins is improving unlike you...

“The young guys, I just test them out,” Bryant said. “I wanted to see now if he had developed that shot, which he did. It’s fun to be able to see how much game he added.”

That half-spin fade illustrated as much.

“His first year in the league, he was off-balance with it, exposing the ball too much,” Bryant said. “Now that one, it was textbook. Textbook: Hid the ball well, elevated well, faded well. I was impressed.”

Bryant wanted to see if Wiggins had a counter to that move, but with little more than two minutes left in the game and in his career against the Wolves, he never got the chance.

“Next time, if we were caught in the post, I would have tried to force him to the right shoulder, see if he had developed the technique on that one. It’s a joy to watch their growth. He’s improved a lot since I first played him.”

http://www.startribune.com/kobe-giving-going-away-presents/367935871/

He's talking about ONE MOVE!!!!! That no one saw and hasn't seen since...lol...orchestrated for Kobe...

Rocco007
03-16-2016, 04:03 PM
The Monster vs the nobody...

:smoking:

2-ONE-5
03-16-2016, 04:26 PM
from the single post of the year to the poster of the year in the NBA forum.

unreal.

mngopher35
03-16-2016, 04:27 PM
He's talking about ONE MOVE!!!!! That no one saw and hasn't seen since...lol...orchestrated for Kobe...

Again twisting the facts, he is complimenting their growth and improvement if you just read the bold (their implies more than just a single shot by one player fyi) and says he has grown a lot (not just his shot). I have directly called you out and you continue to not respond while showing a complete ignorance of the things you actually decide talk about.

How can anyone take you seriously at this point? You can't even have a legitimate discussion without admitting/showing you don't understand stats/factual information, while also showing an ignorance/bias of your own team. Just calm down and think out a rational response to the direct call out a few posts above explaining your reasons with actual analysis and why you shouldn't just be seen as completely uninformed/biased.

mngopher35
03-16-2016, 04:45 PM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pcm_finder.cgi?request=1&sum=0&y1=2016&p1=randlju01&y2=2016&p2=townska01&p3=&p4=&p5=&p6=

I didn't realize how inefficient Randle was. Pretty strong rebounder, he and Towns are fairly similar there. Towns blows his doors off everywhere else.

Yup, that's why I said statistically he is basically the worst of the 6 this year (as you mentioned rebounding being very good though). I personally liked him coming in and think he can grow as a player still with his ability for sure. His mid and outside shot just hasn't come around yet offensively (actually shooting better from 3 than 10-3 pt line granted small sample) and he always was gonna need work on his defense but he can drive/handle well for a pf to go with the rebounding.

Rocco007
03-16-2016, 05:14 PM
When the MONSTER gets cut down to size...we reach for the Coaches...
Well we still have Byron Scott...and I've explained our rotation..This is a coach that wasn't sold on 3 pointers...This is a coach that was running the Princeton offense....until he realized we need a change...and that happened 2 weeks ago on the fly...
So let me see...
Rubio - Euro Star
Lavine - Star???
Wiggins - Superstar???
The MONTSER - HOFer

plus Pek, etc...
equates to 21 wins????

These guys have played all year together...They started 8-8...21 wins????

Wolvesfan remember when this feeling was running rampant through your heart and veins???
#wecomin


------------------------------------------------
Jeff Munneke ‎‎@MinnesotaMunn


If the #NBA season ended today (We) #Twolves would be the 8th seed in the playoffs.....we have room.....#WeComin

6:10 AM - 4 Dec 2015
-------------------------------------------------------
Before you scoff and dismiss our young basketball team, allow me this. In the latest NBA Power Rankings via USA Today, the NBA’s top team is Golden State. As of this writing (and perhaps beyond), the Warriors are undefeated and looking just like the reigning Champions they are. Without head coach Steve Kerr (who’s healing from a medical procedure), the Champs are amazing and interim bench boss Luke Walton just needs to keep that machine headed in the right direction.

But when you look closer at the rankings you see something that hasn’t been apparent for years. Movement. In fact, a seismic shift in power from West to Eastern Division teams. Golden State and San Antonio are one-two in the top-30 listing but only two other Western teams are in the top-11 (OKC at 4 and Dallas at 8).

For the past few seasons, the Wolves have been mired in the bottom-5. There it’s a hoops haven for the hopeless that now reluctantly houses the LA Lakers, Brooklyn Nets, Kings, Nuggets and even Pelicans. It wouldn’t be a basement without the 76ers and they are there, holding up the cellar.

So, it’s OK by me for officials to roll out the bandwagon from the GOgarage, peel back the tarp and let her tootle down First Ave. for fans to hop on. Better than ever before, now is the time. For not even the naysayers are going to believe it when the Wolves exceed expectations this season.

Clearly, the Wolves late President/Coach Flip Saunders did the right thing back in June by drafting Karl-Anthony Towns. With every passing NBA night, more and more outsiders are looking in and saying what a star KAT already is and what he will be. And forget that fourth quarter hullabaloo stirring around right now. There is a method to Sam Mitchell’s mindset and everyone noted, Mitchell knows KAT’s talent perhaps better than all. It will work out.

http://www.nba.com/timberwolves/simons-says-improvement-rising
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

mngopher35
03-16-2016, 05:26 PM
LOL Pek etc. as someone helping the team. The same Pek who has played 12 games 13 mpg and a total of 54 points on the season. Just keep on showing us how educated you are...

Hawkeye15
03-16-2016, 05:46 PM
LOL Pek etc. as someone helping the team. The same Pek who has played 12 games 13 mpg and a total of 54 points on the season. Just keep on showing us how educated you are...

we have been waiting for Pek's vagina to stop bleeding for nearly 2 years now

mngopher35
03-16-2016, 05:58 PM
we have been waiting for Pek's vagina to stop bleeding for nearly 2 years now

I just hope at this point he realizes he won't be healthy and retires (I think there was talk of him worrying about his future at one point). Not sure he just walks away from the $ though...

Rocco007
03-16-2016, 06:00 PM
Tayshaun Prince
Kmart (was still there for most of the season)
Bazz MO
Tyus Jones
Dieng
KG

Why was the city buzzing In December when you were 8-8???? I'm going to dig into the archives and find out what was being said back then in this forum...

mngopher35
03-16-2016, 06:16 PM
Tayshaun Prince
Kmart (was still there for most of the season)
Bazz MO
Tyus Jones
Dieng
KG

Why was the city buzzing In December when you were 8-8???? I'm going to dig into the archives and find out what was being said back then in this forum...

We exceeded expectations early and fell back down to what was expected after that no doubt, sample sizes matter. It does not change the fact that coming into the season we were predicted to be worse than the Lakers (neither team has made major trades/changes other than dropping a couple vets). I am sure in either forum there were fans excited about their team who overrated their team.

Any chance you will ever actually respond to my earlier posts or have you just decided to ignore every instance where you have been proven wrong?

Rocco007
03-16-2016, 06:31 PM
We exceeded expectations early and fell back down to what was expected after that no doubt, sample sizes matter. It does not change the fact that coming into the season we were predicted to be worse than the Lakers (neither team has made major trades/changes other than dropping a couple vets). I am sure in either forum there were fans excited about their team who overrated their team.

Any chance you will ever actually respond to my earlier posts or have you just decided to ignore every instance where you have been proven wrong?

You and I aren't finished by any stretch of the imagination...
You keep throwing Analytics...you are stuck in that gear...
I keep throwing up stats...I'm telling you why your team isn't winning...
You keep giving excuses for your poor record...none of it holds water...unless you are ready to admit that your team is filled with softies...

But I just sent stats on Head to Head match ups...Throw everything else out...Mano y Mano...and Randle outplayed the MONSTER...Exactly what I said...My boys will beat your boys on the court, in a street fight and also take their GFs while they are at it for good measure...Really just unfair...

Chronz
03-16-2016, 06:37 PM
Tayshaun Prince
Kmart (was still there for most of the season)
Bazz MO
Tyus Jones
Dieng
KG

Why was the city buzzing In December when you were 8-8???? I'm going to dig into the archives and find out what was being said back then in this forum...
Are you trolling. Or are you more than a Lakers fan?

Chronz
03-16-2016, 06:39 PM
You and I aren't finished by any stretch of the imagination...
You keep throwing Analytics...you are stuck in that gear...
I keep throwing up stats...I'm telling you why your team isn't winning...
You keep giving excuses for your poor record...none of it holds water...unless you are ready to admit that your team is filled with softies...

But I just sent stats on Head to Head match ups...Throw everything else out...Mano y Mano...and Randle outplayed the MONSTER...Exactly what I said...My boys will beat your boys on the court, in a street fight and also take their GFs while they are at it for good measure...Really just unfair...

Nvm

I now know

Tbh

That was legitimately funny

Monta is beast
03-16-2016, 06:41 PM
Dude with the purple writing is riding the lakers dick. His main argument is that the lakers core is "hungrier" and "works harder" . If thats the case why the **** is KAT by far the best out of that group. Did he just wake up good at basketball? Na he hits the gym. I dont understand why people are respondong to this clown. Buy him a pack of condoms and call it a day.

Monta is beast
03-16-2016, 06:43 PM
Young players dont win, like somoeone said what did lebron do is his first two seasons? Missed the playoffs. The answer is Minnesota 99% of ppl have said that, this dude is a homer. Point blank perioid.

mngopher35
03-16-2016, 06:44 PM
You and I aren't finished by any stretch of the imagination...
You keep throwing Analytics...
I keep throwing up stats...
You keep giving excuses for your poor record...none of it holds water...unless you are ready to admit that your team is filled with softies...

But I just sent stats on Head to Head match ups...Throw everything else out...Mano y Mano...and Randle outplayed the MONSTER...Exactly what I said...My boys will beat your boys on the court, in a street fight and also take their GFs while they are at it for good measure...Really just unfair...

Lol what? You haven't been responding at all just moving on to more biased opinion. You even admitted to not really understanding stats and used them incorrectly as I have already pointed out. Let me show you again and please read then respond to everything you have not touched on since I last posted on.

So far you have used minor statistical drops to bash Wiggins while ignoring the overall improvement he has made. Done basically the same with Lavine. Clarkson has a much bigger drop all around statistically, without those improvements, and is older but you laughed that idea off. You claimed we were playoff bound this season yet pre-season predictions and vegas lines show LA was clearly expected to do better. You bring up a single game for Minnesota where our players performed solidly while ignoring our most recent game before that (beating OKC) and even the most recent Lakers games (where your trio under performed). You ignore the praise players like Towns/Lavine have gotten for their work ethic and continue to call Minny players lazy and LA players hard workers (ignoring lack of improvement from Clarkson to use as an example of his work ethic). You bring up centers/pg's while ignoring the multiple examples of strong rookie pg (or just main handler) seasons where they didn't improve in following years. You compared Towns to AD which he matches up favorably only to try and make a claim AD is this guy who creates/garners attention even as a rookie which just wasn't true (while ignoring Towns actually is more of a creator in comparison to rookie season). You have completely ignored how other elite players did not impact the win column yet expect Towns to get us to the playoffs (even though we both admit he is worse than Lebron who it took 2 years). In this post you bring up Kobe sitting as a difference maker for winning despite actually having a better record when he sits. There is more but you get the point I hope, just stop with the bs.

On top of this you have now said no one is praising Wiggins to be shown that Kobe (and Durant as Hawk mentioned) have. You claimed Pek as part of the reason we were winning games. You again show your lack of ability with stats by listing only per 36 numbers without efficiency as if it proved anything.

Please respond to all of my points on those issues from previous posts and explain your reasoning, I'll gladly discuss but you seem incapable of ever responding to my counter points.

Rocco007
03-16-2016, 06:47 PM
I just need this question answered ...
Did Julius the nobody Randle outplay the KAT the MONSTER head to head?? As a 4th option on the team...That's GRIT and BALLER mentality... #beastmode
No ifs ands or buts...
Yes or NO?
Analyze that for a while...

mngopher35
03-16-2016, 06:48 PM
Dude with the purple writing is riding the lakers dick. His main argument is that the lakers core is "hungrier" and "works harder" . If thats the case why the **** is KAT by far the best out of that group. Did he just wake up good at basketball? Na he hits the gym. I dont understand why people are respondong to this clown. Buy him a pack of condoms and call it a day.

I let his first few posts go until he kept it up and then another laker fan actually called it a "well articulated argument backed by statistical analysis". Decided it was time to jump in at that point.

YAALREADYKNO
03-16-2016, 07:07 PM
The wolves

Rocco007
03-16-2016, 07:44 PM
Just what I thought...
It's all fun and games until you are asked a question that your ego refuses to answer...

Then you look for help from others...

It's just me here...Locked and loaded... and I smell smoke... :burn:

mngopher35
03-16-2016, 07:52 PM
Just what I thought...
It's all fun and games until you are asked a question that your ego refuses to answer...

Then you look for help from others...

It's just me here...Locked and loaded... and I smell smoke... :burn:

I'm definitely ready to respond but was waiting for your response to my multiple call outs. Do you notice how if I don't answer a question within like an hour you resort to this yet it has been over a day and multiple call outs with no response from you? In fact I have covered almost every point you bring up in your posts and you have yet to respond to 90% of mine so consider that before calling someone out.

I will answer you post covering the topics I mentioned and that one on their head to head all at the same time. I do not want you going off on another tangent because you have no response to what I say. Trust me I have no issues responding to any of your posts because I am not here to prop one side up and knock the other down like you clearly are. I'll continue to wait for you response...

IKnowHoops
03-16-2016, 09:09 PM
You say I haven't watched Minny play...You haven't watched LA games either... StarPlayers around the league are talking about our young guns with respect ...WTH is talking about Wiggins and Lavine if it doesn't involve a fastbreak and a windmill dunk?
Curry on DLO...
"He has the total skillset. Will be great for this league moving forward"

I guess you missed where Kobe said he loves Lavine and Wiggins and wants to work with them in the offseason.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25474986/kobe-wants-to-work-out-with-andrew-wiggins-zach-lavine-in-the-summer

Your Team leader wants to work with MN players in the summer, not the players you say everyone is talking about. Time to wake up bro.

Bring The Heat
03-16-2016, 09:37 PM
Wolves core all day.

More-Than-Most
03-16-2016, 09:47 PM
I just need this question answered ...
Did Julius the nobody Randle outplay the KAT the MONSTER head to head?? As a 4th option on the team...That's GRIT and BALLER mentality... #beastmode
No ifs ands or buts...
Yes or NO?
Analyze that for a while...

Russ outplayed curry does that mean russ-------------->curry? Clarkson outplayed curry does that mean clarkson--------->Curry?

Oka rekt both Porz/Towns this year head to head does that mean Oka------>Them... I can go on and on and on but this argument is just stupid.

Its one ****ing game. You are side stepping arguments/facts directing at you and in turn throw this out and want a discussion? just stop

IKnowHoops
03-16-2016, 10:16 PM
I just hope at this point he realizes he won't be healthy and retires (I think there was talk of him worrying about his future at one point). Not sure he just walks away from the $ though...

Crazy how a guy so swoll is hurt so often

Lakers + Giants
03-16-2016, 10:20 PM
this thread :laugh:

Raps18-19 Champ
03-16-2016, 10:44 PM
I bumped Lavine up. He's 3rd behind Towns and Wiggins.

numba1CHANGsta
03-16-2016, 11:18 PM
We should bring back this topic for next season and see how many people flip flop from MIN to LAL's young core

B'sCeltsPatsSox
03-16-2016, 11:49 PM
We should bring back this topic for next season and see how many people flip flop from MIN to LAL's young core

I looked into the future, the answer to that is 0.

Jets012
03-17-2016, 12:05 AM
This isn't close. Like others have said the T-Wolves have Towns. People don't realize how ****ing good this guy is. He's basically a lock to be a top 3 player barring an injury in my opinion. He does literally EVERYTHING well for a big and he's 20 years old.

He's a solid defender already. Can play on the perimeter and shoot. Efficient under the basket. Fantastic rebounder and even a solid passer.

I'd take just Towns over Russell/Clarkson/Randle. And that's not a knock on those guys, it's just the reality of how ****ing good Towns is. I think he'll end up better than Davis personally. Davis might stat pad, but there's something missing about him in terms of his overall impact on the game. He's overrated defensively.

And for the Lakers fans expecting Randle to turn into a star, I'm afraid you'll be massively disappointed. Randle should turn into an elite rebounder, but that's about it. His offensive game is so limited unless he massively improves his outside shooting which is I guess possible. Crawford doesn't really have much potential in all honesty, but he is a real solid player right now. Russell I really do like though, he should be a all-star.

Minny has the best young core in the league. Forget Utah/LA/Milwaukee, it's Minnesota. And it's basically because they have KAT. And Wiggins isn't that bad as people make him out to be. He's already borderline elite in terms of getting to the line. Like people said, if he can just improve his dribbling and perimeter shooting a tad, he should be a top tier SG.

IKnowHoops
03-17-2016, 12:31 AM
I bumped Lavine up. He's 3rd behind Towns and Wiggins.

The kid has so much freaking potential too. Athletically he is as good as it gets. As great as towns is, the upside of both Wiggins and Lavine is so great that they could both end up being higher point scorers than towns. They would both have to develop solid mid range and 3pt games, but that all they have to do. Now I fully expect towns to be the best player of the bunch, but I feel like Lavine and Wiggins upside potential is close to where Towns is gonna be for sure.

IKnowHoops
03-19-2016, 04:22 AM
YOU ARE FAR MORE VERSED THAN I AM IN ANALYTICS...
But I will say this...Last night's game is my point in a nutshell.
Lavine scores 28 with a -8 5 fouls and nothing else...
Wiggins scores 22 and nothing else...
KAT 17 and 10...
Rubio 17 asssits...
and you lose to the worst team in the NBA since the All star break...

Alot of fluffy stats with nothing to show for it...

Now if KAT is everything you all are claiming...why can't he carry the team to wins???



:rolleyes:

Man against that same team

Clarkson 2-13, 8pts -14
D'Angelo 2-10 9pts -6
Randle 1-9 2pts -8

19 pts on 32 shots for your young core
28 pts on 17 shots for Lavine

You still think the Lakers young core is better?
Without Lou dropping 30 for y'all, you loose by 30.

Please don't say it was one game, because all you do is cherry pick wolves games.

Your young core got utterly annihilated by "the worst team in the league since the all-star break"

Do you still have it in you to spin this performance into a way to show how the lakers young core is better?

Pretend the Lakers are really the wolves and destroy them like you destroyed the wolves for loosing to PHX...with much worse performances by your young core.

Scoots
03-19-2016, 11:22 AM
loose is the opposite of tight.

lose is the opposite of win.

I think people saying the Lakers youngsters are better are residents of Kobestan just looking for a new religion.

IKnowHoops
03-19-2016, 06:39 PM
loose is the opposite of tight.

lose is the opposite of win.
I think people saying the Lakers youngsters are better are residents of Kobestan just looking for a new religion.

Yes, I know.

kobe4thewinbang
03-19-2016, 09:12 PM
Twolves got Towns, Dieng, Wiggins and LaVine. With Rubio seeming to come into his own and get a better jumper, they could make some noise next year. Lakers have three nice ones, but Randle is a year behind everybody else and Russell is only recently showing flashes of being a consistent force. Clarkson is the most proficient, but if they go after DeRozan, I don't see Clarkson hanging around cuz he wants paid too surely. Now the Lakers have the horrible record, so they should get a nice prospect, but waiting for yet another youngster to develop is NOT Lakers style. So, it's surprising that Twolves' youth has played so well already. Lakers got some late bloomers.

Rocco007
03-20-2016, 06:06 PM
:rolleyes:

Man against that same team

Clarkson 2-13, 8pts -14
D'Angelo 2-10 9pts -6
Randle 1-9 2pts -8

19 pts on 32 shots for your young core
28 pts on 17 shots for Lavine

You still think the Lakers young core is better?
Without Lou dropping 30 for y'all, you loose by 30.

Please don't say it was one game, because all you do is cherry pick wolves games.

Your young core got utterly annihilated by "the worst team in the league since the all-star break"

Do you still have it in you to spin this performance into a way to show how the lakers young core is better?

Pretend the Lakers are really the wolves and destroy them like you destroyed the wolves for loosing to PHX...with much worse performances by your young core.

This illustrates my exact point about the TWolves and their softy core players...
I can look at the boxscore and see why the Lakers lost...they all shot bad...
But when I look at the boxscore for TWolves in their lost to Phoe...
I see everybody had a great game...
Your core does this...you can't lose to Phoe...How is that possible?:speechless:

Dieng 12 pts 9 rebs 3 steals 2 blocks
KAT MONSTER 17 pts 10 rebs
Lavine 28 pts 3 rebs
Rubio 13 pts 17 assists 4 steals
Wiggins 22 ps 4 rebs

Vinylman
03-20-2016, 07:00 PM
loose is the opposite of tight.

lose is the opposite of win.

I think people saying the Lakers youngsters are better are residents of Kobestan just looking for a new religion.

nah its just the OP ... everyone in the Lakers forum just laughs at him...

definitely blinded by his homerism

IKnowHoops
03-20-2016, 07:51 PM
This illustrates my exact point about the TWolves and their softy core players...
I can look at the boxscore and see why the Lakers lost...they all shot bad...
But when I look at the boxscore for TWolves in their lost to Phoe...
I see everybody had a great game...
Your core does this...you can't lose to Phoe...How is that possible?:speechless:

Dieng 12 pts 9 rebs 3 steals 2 blocks
KAT MONSTER 17 pts 10 rebs
Lavine 28 pts 3 rebs
Rubio 13 pts 17 assists 4 steals
Wiggins 22 ps 4 rebs

The Wolves lost because there defense is suspect because they are young. They are great athletes but they are still learning the game.

But see that game also illustrates my point. If you get shut down like that against phoenix, you simply are not that good. There is no way phoenix could shout down our core. The fact that the LA core can get held to that low of production tells you they are not that good.

Another thing is the MN core was what kept them in it. In LA's case, the vets kept them in it. Neither core can play good defense, but MN core is much better offensively as that game showed.

Rocco007
03-21-2016, 12:26 PM
The Wolves lost because there defense is suspect because they are young. They are great athletes but they are still learning the game.

But see that game also illustrates my point. If you get shut down like that against phoenix, you simply are not that good. There is no way phoenix could shout down our core. The fact that the LA core can get held to that low of production tells you they are not that good.

Another thing is the MN core was what kept them in it. In LA's case, the vets kept them in it. Neither core can play good defense, but MN core is much better offensively as that game showed.
I respect your allegiance to your team...But the Wolves issues are more than Defense...That score vs Phoe was 107-104....
KAT the MONSTER won't win with Wiggins and Lavine...That group does not mesh well...All individual one on one players....that offer nothing with substance when you break down game film... IMO

Rocco007
03-21-2016, 12:28 PM
nah its just the OP ... everyone in the Lakers forum just laughs at him...

definitely blinded by his homerism

Speaking of obsessed fans... #youfoundmeagain :speechless:

mngopher35
03-21-2016, 03:25 PM
The Wolves lost because there defense is suspect because they are young. They are great athletes but they are still learning the game.


Agreed, our young guys have been playing really well especially since February (which is when Dieng/Lavine became starters and/or got 30 minutes pretty consistently). Lavine/Wiggins/Towns combine for basically 60 pts a game on over 50% from the field in total (and all over 75% ft shooters). Towns 3 pt shooting has fallen off but both Wiggins/Lavine are over 40% during that span. I am not sure how to find it but I wonder how many trios 21 or under have ever had a streak like this or even scored half their teams points in a season like these guys are on track to do?

They are definitely proving capable of carrying the scoring load even at such a young age which is amazing. We are also 8-12 over that span so no drop off there. Once these guys develop a bit, especially when it comes to team defense, we should be in great shape.

Thibs has been brought up before and I had some worry of him running players into the ground but if he can add defense to this group we would look really good. He seems like the right guy for the job, especially if he can manage minutes a little better.

Quinnsanity
03-21-2016, 07:20 PM
There are so many wrong things with this thread ugh. I'd rather have Towns STRAIGHT UP over the Lakers group. He's a goddamn torpedo. I've never seen anything like him.

IKnowHoops
03-22-2016, 03:48 AM
I respect your allegiance to your team...But the Wolves issues are more than Defense...That score vs Phoe was 107-104....
KAT the MONSTER won't win with Wiggins and Lavine...That group does not mesh well...All individual one on one players....that offer nothing with substance when you break down game film... IMO


Bruh, they are super young. They are basically kids playing against grown men. They are nowhere close to there ceiling. If they were already at there peak, then what you say would be true. But THEY ARE NO WHERE CLOSE TO THERE PEAK. This team is right where OKC was when they had Westbrook, Harden, KD and Ibaka and barely won 30 games. The only thing I am worried about is that this team gets good to soon and they are not able to add the last piece. The only good thing is they may not need it. This is going to be a scary team in 2-3 years. If we get Ben in this draft the LA core could get the equivalent of Rookie Shaq or Lebron and still not be on par with young talent.

I'm really hoping the wolves have one more bad season in them. Trading Rubio and Dieng for future picks will help us do that.

IKnowHoops
03-22-2016, 04:11 AM
Agreed, our young guys have been playing really well especially since February (which is when Dieng/Lavine became starters and/or got 30 minutes pretty consistently). Lavine/Wiggins/Towns combine for basically 60 pts a game on over 50% from the field in total (and all over 75% ft shooters). Towns 3 pt shooting has fallen off but both Wiggins/Lavine are over 40% during that span. I am not sure how to find it but I wonder how many trios 21 or under have ever had a streak like this or even scored half their teams points in a season like these guys are on track to do?

They are definitely proving capable of carrying the scoring load even at such a young age which is amazing. We are also 8-12 over that span so no drop off there. Once these guys develop a bit, especially when it comes to team defense, we should be in great shape.

Thibs has been brought up before and I had some worry of him running players into the ground but if he can add defense to this group we would look really good. He seems like the right guy for the job, especially if he can manage minutes a little better.

Man...Thibs would be awesome. Maybe we wait another year and keep this crappy coach we got to help us get another good draft pick. LOL. I know that line of thinking seems dumb, but its MN. Its gonna be hard to attract free agents here. I feel like we need to milk the draft for everything we can. If we add 2-3 more attractive pieces to the team through the draft over the next two years, maybe we can attract one great free agent to put us over the top. If we can't we have what we need to move forward anyway and it will make it impossible for Thibs to run anyone into the ground...which is the only thing about Thibs I'm worried about. I dont want to see Towns and Wiggins playing 41 minutes a game.

Rocco007
03-22-2016, 03:00 PM
Man. Spurs lost...Charlotte held on ...
GS was begging to lose...BUT...it was the Wolves...
I was going to toss up the stats of the Lakers dominated GS from start to finish ...and what my young guns did when they were faced with a challenge...But it's useless...
All I'm hearing is that we are young...
Well so are we...That's what this thread is about...BETTER YOUNG CORE...
Comparing Dieng, Lavine Wiggins and KAT to Durant, Westbrook , Harden and Ibaka???
Ok, well I hope to see Minny in the playoffs next season...
Durant and them went to the playoffs in his 2nd season as a pro and hasn't looked back since...Minny ain't built like that...Your players are soft...your players are one dimensional...and they lack the BBAll IQ...IMO

2-ONE-5
03-22-2016, 03:08 PM
youre the worst. imo

FlashBolt
03-22-2016, 03:09 PM
I'm in love with Towns.. Minny hit the jackpot with this guy. Now you have Wiggins, Lavine, and frickin Towns? If they can sign these guys to long term contracts in the future, this crew is going to be insane in 2-3 years. They obviously need to get rid of Rubio but man, forget about Davis as of now.

IKnowHoops
03-22-2016, 04:55 PM
Man. Spurs lost...Charlotte held on ...
GS was begging to lose...BUT...it was the Wolves...
I was going to toss up the stats of the Lakers dominated GS from start to finish ...and what my young guns did when they were faced with a challenge...But it's useless...
All I'm hearing is that we are young...
Well so are we...That's what this thread is about...BETTER YOUNG CORE...
Comparing Dieng, Lavine Wiggins and KAT to Durant, Westbrook , Harden and Ibaka???
Ok, well I hope to see Minny in the playoffs next season...
Durant and them went to the playoffs in his 2nd season as a pro and hasn't looked back since...Minny ain't built like that...Your players are soft...your players are one dimensional...and they lack the BBAll IQ...IMO


Actually Durant did not go to the playoffs in his second season. It was his third. If we compare raw stats like you want, MN core already is shown to destroy the LA core. You can find one game...sure. But on a game to game basis, MN is completely and totally out playing the lakers. And you can't show any stats that prove otherwise.

Rocco007
03-22-2016, 05:18 PM
Actually Durant did not go to the playoffs in his second season. It was his third. If we compare raw stats like you want, MN core already is shown to destroy the LA core. You can find one game...sure. But on a game to game basis, MN is completely and totally out playing the lakers. And you can't show any stats that prove otherwise.
WTF are you talking about?
How about head to head?
Minny vs LAL...
Let's talk about that?
Go back and look at my posts...
Randle handled KAT the Monster...
We won 2 out of 3...Your lone victory came in OT by 1 point...
we will see next year...
You will be looking for a PG that can shoot...and trying to find a place for Lavine...
Wiggins will be who he is...just playing out there...18 pts 2 rebs in 35 mins...
While LAL core will be high flying... Remember this THREAD>>>

mngopher35
03-22-2016, 05:40 PM
lol he can't even get the most basic facts right. KD to playoffs in 2 years, Lakers beating Minny twice so far. If only we had beaten them twice we would clearly be better right? Oh, wait...(not that it actually means anything in this topic anyways).

I am not surprised to hear that Laker fans also laugh him off, it's almost unbelievable.

Hawkeye15
03-22-2016, 05:45 PM
I think the Lakers young core is arguably the greatest core in the history of sports, not just the NBA. Highly efficient, terrific defenders, heart that can't fit inside a large suit, and toughness that would make John Wayne cry like a *****.

Rocco007
03-22-2016, 06:05 PM
lol he can't even get the most basic facts right. KD to playoffs in 2 years, Lakers beating Minny twice so far. If only we had beaten them twice we would clearly be better right? Oh, wait...(not that it actually means anything in this topic anyways).

I am not surprised to hear that Laker fans also laugh him off, it's almost unbelievable.

But comparing Lavine, Deing, KAT and Wiggins to Russell, KD, Ibaka and Harden makes perfect sense in your world?....smfh
The only Lakerfans that come in here and talk smack ae the same ones I friggin ROAST just like I did you...
and all you do is run for help just like they do. I am used to it my friend...
Wiggins and Lavine will be in there year 3 next season...

So are you saying right now that the Wolves make the Playoffs next year??????????????????????? Please be clear!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
KD played for Seattle in his first year...easy mistake...2nd year in OKC...he went to the Offs 2nd year on OKC...3rd year overall...

And I fully expect Minny to beat LAL head to head from here and out because they are better...RIGHT????????????????????

Rocco007
03-22-2016, 06:08 PM
Wolves lose to GS....Gutless
Lakers beat GS....No Fear
:cricket:

Rocco007
03-22-2016, 06:10 PM
But hey look on the bright side...
At least you are not the Philadelphia 76ers, the worst franchise in Sports...
So there is reason to believe you guys will find the right players to fit around KAT...

Scoots
03-22-2016, 06:32 PM
I was going to toss up the stats of the Lakers dominated GS from start to finish ...and what my young guns did when they were faced with a challenge...

Allow me:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201511240GSW.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201601050LAL.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201601140GSW.html

If you are going to cherry pick one game here or there I'll go ahead and post the other relevant games.

I try not to feed the trolls like this ... but I just couldn't stop myself.

These sorts of posts are why I said that the people picking the Lakers young players were just residents of Kobestan looking for a new king to worship.

The Wolves young players are better and it's not close.

That does NOT mean that the Lakers youngsters are bad or without promise ... just not as good.

I really think the Jazz should be in this conversation too.