PDA

View Full Version : What Team had the best Defense Ever?



Gametime
03-11-2016, 02:46 PM
I'll throw some teams out and get right to it.

Knicks 91-94
Pistons 87-90
Pistons 03-05
Bulls 90-94
Bulls 95-98
Lakers 80-85
Celtics 81-86
Rockets 92-95
Spurs 99


hm Mavericks 2011

KnicksorBust
03-11-2016, 03:35 PM
Ironically you picked the worst of the Celtics options and left out the two best.

No 60s Celtics?

No 2007-2009 Celtics?

List is lacking.

Gametime
03-11-2016, 03:38 PM
I wasn't listing everyone.

Cetlics from 2008 were good. I don't think they were as good though the following year.

Celtics in the 60's were great too.

Why do you not like the Celtics from 81-86?

TO Rapz
03-11-2016, 04:11 PM
2015 Saints

ManningToTyree
03-11-2016, 04:25 PM
Late 80s pistons

Gametime
03-11-2016, 04:45 PM
Carlisle is 4-10 in games decided by 3 points or less. That is a coaches stat.

Carlisle is 10-23 in games vs .500 or better teams.


Do you still think Carlisle is this "giant killer" that can beat teams with a better roster than his?

Gametime
03-11-2016, 04:46 PM
One series doesn't make a "career".

Ball_Out
03-11-2016, 04:50 PM
03-05 pistons

Scoots
03-11-2016, 08:49 PM
2015 warriors. Only team in nba history to be #1 in pace and in D.

Tony_Starks
03-11-2016, 10:52 PM
Don't know about best ever but the -04 Pistons could lock up anybody. Ben/ Sheed/ and Tay up front was NO joke!

mrblisterdundee
03-12-2016, 12:15 AM
The 1990-91 through 1997-98 Bulls had the seventh-, fourth-, seventh-, sixth-, second-, first-, fourth- and third-best defensive rating in respective seasons, according to Basketball-Reference. Top-10 offenses and defenses win championships, and they won six out of eight available.
The only time they didn't have the necessary top-10 offense was when Michael Jordan retired. Even his 17-game return in 1994-95 helped lift the team to a top-10 offense.
In the six championship seasons, the Bulls won nearly 79 percent of their games in the regular season and 71 percent of their playoff games.

kdspurman
03-12-2016, 12:20 AM
99 spurs were amazing... 04 pistons. Just naming some of the more recent teams

IKnowHoops
03-12-2016, 12:27 AM
I'll throw some teams out and get right to it.

Knicks 91-94
Pistons 87-90
Pistons 03-05
Bulls 90-94
Bulls 95-98
Lakers 80-85
Celtics 81-86
Rockets 92-95
Spurs 99


hm Mavericks 2011

Spurs 99 for me.

Chronz
03-12-2016, 01:50 AM
This is a no brainer, 2004 Pistons. Only team that would be the best regardless of the era (imo).

JasonJohnHorn
03-12-2016, 09:05 AM
You list starts off great:

Knicks 91-94
Pistons 87-90
Pistons 03-05
Bulls 90-94
Bulls 95-98

I don't know that I'd go in that order, but those are all stellar defensive teams.

The Doc/Thibs Celtics with Garnett/Rondo/Pierce were great.

The Pop/Duncan Spurs deserve credit for the longevity of their defense.

The Riley Heat of the 90's was a great defensive team.


And obviously the Celtics of the 60's.


I wasn't crazy about the defense of either the Celtics or the Lakers of the 80's; they were good defenders, even great, but not among the greatest. They each had strong defensive players (DJ + Cooper), but relied more on their stellar offensive weapons.

ewing
03-12-2016, 09:18 AM
This is a no brainer, 2004 Pistons. Only team that would be the best regardless of the era (imo).

I have them and the 93-94 knicks as my 2. The Piston are by far the best IMO since they cleaned up the game some. Both teams were great defensively and both had a special ability to completely shut down teams for long stretches.

KnicksorBust
03-12-2016, 10:28 AM
This is a no brainer, 2004 Pistons. Only team that would be the best regardless of the era (imo).

No brainer? They didn't even lead the league in Drtg. Spurs were #1 in 04.

ewing
03-12-2016, 11:34 AM
No brainer? They didn't even lead the league in Drtg. Spurs were #1 in 04.

Rasheed Wallace was not acquired until mid season.

KnickNyKnick
03-12-2016, 11:59 AM
2004 Pistons, incredible defense. i cant deny this.

PowerHouse
03-12-2016, 12:49 PM
Out of that list the late 80s Pistons were the team most well known for there lock down defenders and aggressive style of defense. They have my vote.

europagnpilgrim
03-12-2016, 02:32 PM
Wherever Larry Brown and Thibs coached

B Russell Is the best anchor man ever

Sly Guy
03-12-2016, 05:13 PM
This is a no brainer, 2004 Pistons. Only team that would be the best regardless of the era (imo).

I kinda agree. More than any other teams mentioned, I think the 04' pistons relied more on their defensive prowess to win games than any other. Typical scorelines when that team was involved had the winner scoring 75, and the loser scoring in the 60's.

Scoots
03-12-2016, 06:25 PM
I kinda agree. More than any other teams mentioned, I think the 04' pistons relied more on their defensive prowess to win games than any other. Typical scorelines when that team was involved had the winner scoring 75, and the loser scoring in the 60's.

The Utah Jazz are by far the slowest paced team in the NBA this year at 91.3 ... that Pistons team was at 87.9 which is just incredibly slow, and a slow pace helps your defense a lot. That Pistons team DRtg was 95.4 which is very low, but for comparison this years Spurs play at a considerably faster 94.5 pace and have a DRtg of 97.8 ... they play considerably faster but only give up a little in defensive efficiency over the Pistons, and these Spurs are having to deal with a league that has gone 3 happy compared to what those 04 Pistons dealt with.

I don't think it's possible to declare the best defense ever since the game has changed so much over the years. The 04 Pistons were a great defensive team, no question ... I just can't say best ever.

ewing
03-12-2016, 08:49 PM
The Pistons boasted the best defensive player in the league and one of the best ever in 04 (big Ben), Wallace might have been second to Ben in terms of bigs and was the best one on one post defender in the league, Prince was super long, versatile, and great on the perimeter (an all defensive team guy in his own right at the time), Billups was an elite defensive PG and was backed up by the best pressure guard in the league in Lindsey hunter, Rip was a decent defender. they had bigs like Corless and Elan Campbell coming off the bench. After the Wallace trade they were dominate on that end. Sorry you cant compare any team in the league right now to that one in terms of defensive impact.

naps
03-13-2016, 06:54 AM
2004 pistons in my time of closely watching the nba. The greatest defensive juggernauts I have ever seen. Hands down.

90's Bulls, Riley's Knicks and Heat of 90's were great too.
And if the rules allowed, I dont think anyone could ever come out as the better defense than those bad boys of late 80's.
Another great defensive team from recent memory is the '08 Celtics. That Garnett led team was awesome.

KnicksorBust
03-13-2016, 07:27 AM
No brainer? They didn't even lead the league in Drtg. Spurs were #1 in 04.

Rasheed Wallace was not acquired until mid season.

What is your excuse for them not leading the league next season and ranking 3rd?

ewing
03-13-2016, 07:55 AM
What is your excuse for them not leading the league next season and ranking 3rd?

that wasn't part of the conversation. after acquiring Wallace, they went on a ridiculous run at the end of the season. judging that team with the stat you used doesn't make sense.

KnicksorBust
03-13-2016, 08:04 AM
What is your excuse for them not leading the league next season and ranking 3rd?

that wasn't part of the conversation. after acquiring Wallace, they went on a ridiculous run at the end of the season. judging that team with the stat you used doesn't make sense.

So you think the way to judge the best defensive team of all-time is basing it on their performance in a half season stretch on a snails pace? If they were as ridiculous as you described why wouldn't it carry over into next season? The logic doesn't add up.

ewing
03-13-2016, 08:42 AM
So you think the way to judge the best defensive team of all-time is basing it on their performance in a half season stretch on a snails pace? If they were as ridiculous as you described why wouldn't it carry over into next season? The logic doesn't add up.

here look at the game logs for this team from feb 27th on (3 weeks after acquiring Wallace)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DET/2004_games.html

yes, they played slow but also blew people out and held teams to under 90 every night. you know something else controlling pace takes talent. if it didn't everyone would just play at a snails pace when the Warriors came to town. Yes, i it makes sense to give credit to a team that added a player mid season and then dominated both regular season and post season defensively. Why weren't they as good the next year? Well b/c its a game and that's how sports work, they aren't machines. The Pistons did bring back a lot of the same talent and were still a very very good defensive team. so there was a carry over but the game isn't played in a lab and you can't expect the same exact results all the time. Sorry you can't get over the one stat that you looked up on basketball reference. Hey, i picked the Piston that year and won **** ton of money when they blew out the unbeatable Lakers. Good thing i didn't depend on there season's Drtg, right?

basch152
03-13-2016, 09:19 AM
Lol, that pistons team from march 4th until the 30th played 11 games and only allowed two teams to score over 80, including the record 5 game stretch of not allowing even 70.

KnicksorBust
03-13-2016, 10:53 AM
So you think the way to judge the best defensive team of all-time is basing it on their performance in a half season stretch on a snails pace? If they were as ridiculous as you described why wouldn't it carry over into next season? The logic doesn't add up.

here look at the game logs for this team from feb 27th on (3 weeks after acquiring Wallace)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DET/2004_games.html

yes, they played slow but also blew people out and held opportunities to under 90 every night. you know something else controlling pace takes talent. if it didn't everyone would just play at a snails pace when the Warriors came to town. Yes, i it makes sense to give credit to a team that added a player mid season and then dominated both regular season and post season defensively. Why weren't they as good the next year? Well b/c its a game and that's how sports work, they aren't machines. The Pistons did bring back a lot of the same talent and were still a very very good defensive team. so there was a carry over but the game isn't played in a lab and you can't expect the same exact results all the time. Sorry you can't get over the one stat that you looked up on basketball reference. Hey, i picked the Piston that year and won **** ton of money when they blew out the unbeatable Lakers. Good thing i didn't depend on there season's Drtg, right?

The best defense of all-time was never the best defense for an entire season just a 3 week stretch where they played vitaly potapenko and linton johnson. I am the crazy one. Got it. :)

Maybe if you made an actual argument I would take you seriously.

ewing
03-13-2016, 12:41 PM
The best defense of all-time was never the best defense for an entire season just a 3 week stretch where they played vitaly potapenko and linton johnson. I am the crazy one. Got it. :)

Maybe if you made an actual argument I would take you seriously.

what are you even talking about?

Chronz
03-13-2016, 03:02 PM
No brainer? They didn't even lead the league in Drtg. Spurs were #1 in 04.
Midseason trade+playoffs=best. Spurs dont get the title for being a unit longer.


The Utah Jazz are by far the slowest paced team in the NBA this year at 91.3 ... that Pistons team was at 87.9 which is just incredibly slow, and a slow pace helps your defense a lot. That Pistons team DRtg was 95.4 which is very low, but for comparison this years Spurs play at a considerably faster 94.5 pace and have a DRtg of 97.8 ... they play considerably faster but only give up a little in defensive efficiency over the Pistons, and these Spurs are having to deal with a league that has gone 3 happy compared to what those 04 Pistons dealt with.

I don't think it's possible to declare the best defense ever since the game has changed so much over the years. The 04 Pistons were a great defensive team, no question ... I just can't say best ever.
Who told you that lie? Thats like discrediting elite offenses for playing fast, people cant really have it both ways on that front. While there is a minor correlation between pace and efficiency, its not close to being the relevant factor you suggest here, besides, you miss out on part of the reason they played so slow, teams weren't getting any open looks against them and had to use up the entire clock. So sure, the Pistons were a slow it down team, but they also made you play incredibly slower in the halfcourt regardless of your principles.

And its smart to note the environmental changes in their leagues, thats why its best to look at the league adjusted rates, not just their raw ratings.

Chronz
03-13-2016, 03:07 PM
here look at the game logs for this team from feb 27th on (3 weeks after acquiring Wallace)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DET/2004_games.html

yes, they played slow but also blew people out and held teams to under 90 every night. you know something else controlling pace takes talent. if it didn't everyone would just play at a snails pace when the Warriors came to town. Yes, i it makes sense to give credit to a team that added a player mid season and then dominated both regular season and post season defensively. Why weren't they as good the next year? Well b/c its a game and that's how sports work, they aren't machines. The Pistons did bring back a lot of the same talent and were still a very very good defensive team. so there was a carry over but the game isn't played in a lab and you can't expect the same exact results all the time. Sorry you can't get over the one stat that you looked up on basketball reference. Hey, i picked the Piston that year and won **** ton of money when they blew out the unbeatable Lakers. Good thing i didn't depend on there season's Drtg, right?

Did you really? Thats always been my claim to fame within my group of friends. Did you do it cuz you hated LA or truly believed it? I had a mixture of loathing the Lakers (Kobe and his fans had really soured them for me by this point) and knowing the Pistons were underrated. That stretch of games under 70 was so exciting, it was hilarious when the Nets broke the streak and celebrated a loss like they just won the Finals.

Chronz
03-13-2016, 03:43 PM
Lol, that pistons team from march 4th until the 30th played 11 games and only allowed two teams to score over 80, including the record 5 game stretch of not allowing even 70.
Im trying to find the clip of the Nets fist pumping when they broke 71 in a bad loss.


The Pistons boasted the best defensive player in the league and one of the best ever in 04 (big Ben), Wallace might have been second to Ben in terms of bigs and was the best one on one post defender in the league, Prince was super long, versatile, and great on the perimeter (an all defensive team guy in his own right at the time), Billups was an elite defensive PG and was backed up by the best pressure guard in the league in Lindsey hunter, Rip was a decent defender. they had bigs like Corless and Elan Campbell coming off the bench. After the Wallace trade they were dominate on that end. Sorry you cant compare any team in the league right now to that one in terms of defensive impact.
It was such a fun team to watch because they controlled tempo like few teams ever have. Saw them for many of those games and I saw their core 4 (before Wallace) lock up AI and Tmac in the playoffs before that. In fact, if it wasn't for Tmac lighting them up at a historic clip, they may have never discovered the gem they had in Prince.

They pressed the **** out of your backups, you already mentioned Lindsey, combining him with Mike James gave them 2 pitbulls. Seemed like every player complimented their partner on the perimeter or the post. They had a wiry tall sg and a bulky pg so they would often swap assignments if need be, they had Tay if anyone had to be hidden. Then theres what truly made them special, the Wallace Bros and that key 3rd big off the bench depending on matchup/year. They were the only team that had an answer for either Shaq or Duncan but it wasn't the same guy (or group of guys) so its pretty hard to nominate any one of them as the best post defender.

Generally speaking Sheed was their designated post defender (prolly their best one tbh) which allowed Ben to roam and provide the best help in the L. If you're facing Duncan or KG, Sheed was the guy (McDyess as well the following year) but against Shaq, it was Ben who told the coach to provide zero help. Like a tool kit you can maximize, they had a solution for everything, if not for Sheeds defensive brain fart, we may be thinking of them far differently.

TheMightyHumph
03-14-2016, 12:22 AM
Knicks '68-'74

ewing
03-14-2016, 08:38 AM
Did you really? Thats always been my claim to fame within my group of friends. Did you do it cuz you hated LA or truly believed it? I had a mixture of loathing the Lakers (Kobe and his fans had really soured them for me by this point) and knowing the Pistons were underrated. That stretch of games under 70 was so exciting, it was hilarious when the Nets broke the streak and celebrated a loss like they just won the Finals.


Yeah, being contrarian might have played into it a little bit and people were so against me i was thinking i might be totally wrong on this but i picked the Pistons. My biggest reason was b/c i remember through out the playoffs telling people that Shaq looked like he had no lift. Again, people said i was crazy but thats what i saw. The Piston were good, big, and Shaq didn't have lift.