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View Full Version : Lebrons Teammates Haven't Played "Meaningful" Games Yet...



Tony_Starks
03-08-2016, 10:51 AM
He has thrown this out there publicly several times this season.

Initially I had no problem with it because I saw it as a motivation.

He's used it a couple more times through the season tho, most recently last night after a disappointing loss to the Grizzlies.

The thing is at what point does it cease being motivational and just become throwing your guys under the bus?

We know Kyrie and Loves resume pre-Lebron return. Why belabor the obvious? Chris Bosh had never played a "meaningful" game either prior to the big 3 era but when the time came he balled out.

Pau Gasol couldn't even win a single playoff game as the man, he even got flat out punked his first Finals, but Kobe stayed in his ear and eventually had him playing at the highest level.

Bottom line is if you really have game it doesn't matter, when the time comes they'll either adapt with the right leadership or fold under pressure.

What does continuing to rub their inexperience in accomplish at this point?

Chronz
03-08-2016, 02:08 PM
Bosh balled out? Pau was leading teams/nations to glory/playoffs and he didn't get punked at all, Bosh has played worse in every one of his playoff runs.

mngopher35
03-08-2016, 02:22 PM
Not sure but saying it after a game like last night would seem like he is saying "we can't just be content at the top of the East" type of thing. They need to keep working and improving as a team so when the big games come they will be ready as a whole. Have to look a little more into the context though as I rarely follow much of the post game activities. If him stating this starts rubbing them the wrong way then they probably aren't ready for the pressure of the big games though as media will be far more critical (already articles saying they are running out of time and it is March for example)...

Vee-Rex
03-08-2016, 03:14 PM
I'm tired of LeBron and his wimpy, cryptic messages and always running to social media to express that stuff. Dude needs to grow up. As much as he wants to be an incredible leader, he fails when he takes it out of game. Be an ******* sometimes during games if you want, but taking it to social media is where he fails.

I'm tired of Irving playing hero-ball in chunks of the game. He tries to distribute at times but ends up passing it when he should shoot, and shooting it when he should pass. He just. doesn't. get. it. Low BBIQ for sure, and although he's still only 23 so it could improve, I'm not sure if it ever will.

I'm also tired of Kevin Love and his maddening inconsistencies with efficiency. I'm convinced that he was overrated in Minny. Talented offensively, but can't make shots consistently. Cavs have been feeding him wide open looks at the beginning of games and then going away from him when he misses.

Add on the fact that both Love and Irving suck defensively... and there's most of our problems.

My prediction:

The Eastern Conference playoffs is gonna be a dogfight. It will NOT be easy for Cleveland, and I bet we'll get pushed to 7 games. Whoever comes out the West will win.

Unless the Cavs win the title, I see Love getting traded in the offseason. Maybe if we package Love with a couple 1st rounds (kill off our future), Shumpert, Mozgov, maybe Utah will let us look at Derrick Favors.

Tony_Starks
03-08-2016, 05:20 PM
Bosh balled out? Pau was leading teams/nations to glory/playoffs and he didn't get punked at all, Bosh has played worse in every one of his playoff runs.


Even though Bosh was in a entirely different role he has been a very reliable stretch big during their run, with plenty of huge shots during that time. If anything they screwed up in their usage of him...ala Kevin Love.

Gasol got swept out the playoffs twice as the leader of the Grizz. Teams with well balanced talent and excellent coaching in Fratello and Hubie. Couldn't get a solitary game. And he got COMPLETELY punked our first trip to Boston, ask-a-Laker fan. In fact don't ask a fan, go check Gasols statements afterwards. He blatantly admits he wasn't ready for their physicality and concedes he let himself get pushed around.

The point is both of them had to learn by experience and leadership, not calling them out in the press for something they couldn't change anyway.

Hawkeye15
03-08-2016, 05:32 PM
Even though Bosh was in a entirely different role he has been a very reliable stretch big during their run, with plenty of huge shots during that time. If anything they screwed up in their usage of him...ala Kevin Love.

Gasol got swept out the playoffs twice as the leader of the Grizz. Teams with well balanced talent and excellent coaching in Fratello and Hubie. Couldn't get a solitary game. And he got COMPLETELY punked our first trip to Boston, ask-a-Laker fan. In fact don't ask a fan, go check Gasols statements afterwards. He blatantly admits he wasn't ready for their physicality and concedes he let himself get pushed around.

The point is both of them had to learn by experience and leadership, not calling them out in the press for something they couldn't change anyway.

you sure you were watching every Miami series Bosh played in haha?

Tony_Starks
03-08-2016, 05:41 PM
Not sure but saying it after a game like last night would seem like he is saying "we can't just be content at the top of the East" type of thing. They need to keep working and improving as a team so when the big games come they will be ready as a whole. Have to look a little more into the context though as I rarely follow much of the post game activities. If him stating this starts rubbing them the wrong way then they probably aren't ready for the pressure of the big games though as media will be far more critical (already articles saying they are running out of time and it is March for example)...



Here's from last night

I can sit up here and say that we're a team that's ready to start the playoffs tomorrow, but we're not," James said in the locker room afterwards. "We're still learning, we still have things that happen on the court that just, that shouldn't happen. But then you look and see our guys are still learning how to play winning basketball, so you kind of put it in perspective."


http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2016/03/lebron_james_memphis_grizzlies_2.html



In itself nothing egregious but just last week after the Pacers loss:

We got a lot of guys that haven't played meaningful basketball in their career. And it sucks, but you look at our guys that mean much to our team ... these guys haven't played a lot of meaningful basketball games and (haven't had) a lot of games to learn and experience, so every game for us is experience.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2016/03/lebron_james_his_wish_for_the.html


I mean they lack experience, ok we get it. But to keep bringing it up after losses starts to sound like "hey this ain't on me, these guys don't know what they're doing" after a while.

There's a fine line between motivation and placing blame imo.

YAALREADYKNO
03-08-2016, 05:42 PM
Bosh balled out? Pau was leading teams/nations to glory/playoffs and he didn't get punked at all, Bosh has played worse in every one of his playoff runs.

Pau was getting swept in Memphis lol

mngopher35
03-08-2016, 06:00 PM
Here's from last night

I can sit up here and say that we're a team that's ready to start the playoffs tomorrow, but we're not," James said in the locker room afterwards. "We're still learning, we still have things that happen on the court that just, that shouldn't happen. But then you look and see our guys are still learning how to play winning basketball, so you kind of put it in perspective."


http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2016/03/lebron_james_memphis_grizzlies_2.html



In itself nothing egregious but just last week after the Pacers loss:

We got a lot of guys that haven't played meaningful basketball in their career. And it sucks, but you look at our guys that mean much to our team ... these guys haven't played a lot of meaningful basketball games and (haven't had) a lot of games to learn and experience, so every game for us is experience.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2016/03/lebron_james_his_wish_for_the.html


I mean they lack experience, ok we get it. But to keep bringing it up after losses starts to sound like "hey this ain't on me, these guys don't know what they're doing" after a while.

There's a fine line between motivation and placing blame imo.

Last nights doesn't seem like anything (and actually true) to me but the other one is a bit more. I always think this stuff gets way overblown anyways for players. We have seen coaches use the media like this to try and motivate players/teams as well. Heck didn't JR Smith have similar comments? Seems to be a real issue for the team. Hard to say for sure what is enough and what is too much with such limited access to these teams when they aren't playing games (film/practices rooms etc.)

One thing I will say though is that Lebron seems to hate losing and is a poor sport about it sometimes. He is bad at talking to the media in general but add in doing it right after a loss and it can hit another level. Neither of these are really horrible where I think he is that in the wrong though, just saying he has said some dumb things after losses before haha.

Hawkeye15
03-08-2016, 06:03 PM
Pau was getting swept in Memphis lol

In a time where the west was absolutely brutal, and his team was getting an 8th seed every year. Seriously, look at his rosters...

ghettosean
03-08-2016, 06:37 PM
Bosh balled out? Pau was leading teams/nations to glory/playoffs and he didn't get punked at all, Bosh has played worse in every one of his playoff runs.

His championship saving rebound was just as big as Ray Allen's finals saving 3 pointer. Without either player Lebron would most likely be 1 - 3 in the finals in Miami assuming he still beats OKC.

Hawkeye15
03-08-2016, 06:49 PM
His championship saving rebound was just as big as Ray Allen's finals saving 3 pointer. Without either player Lebron would most likely be 1 - 3 in the finals in Miami assuming he still beats OKC.

people always leave out, that without LeBron having an awesome 4th quarter (something like 14 pts, 3 rebs, 3 assists, a block), including a 3 with 20 seconds to go to bring Miami within 2.

It's ridiculous honestly haha, people act like LeBron is the only guy to have role players step up at big times. Robert ****ing Horry anyone? Steve Kerr? Derrick Fisher? Sean Elliot? List goes on and on

But nope, LeBron's needs to be brought up endlessly.

Slug3
03-08-2016, 06:49 PM
One thing I remember about Miami those 4 years is that they would just go through the motions for 3 quarters of a game and then the last 5 minutes would turn it on and win the game. They did that a lot. I see that a lot with the Cavs at the moment as well, but they are not able to flip that switch (I guess thats what they called it) to finish the games. I remember the Laker teams with Shaq and Kobe use to do this all the time as well.

Slug3
03-08-2016, 06:52 PM
people always leave out, that without LeBron having an awesome 4th quarter (something like 14 pts, 3 rebs, 3 assists, a block), including a 3 with 20 seconds to go to bring Miami within 2.

It's ridiculous honestly haha, people act like LeBron is the only guy to have role players step up at big times. Robert ****ing Horry anyone? Steve Kerr? Derrick Fisher? Sean Elliot? List goes on and on

But nope, LeBron's needs to be brought up endlessly.

A lot of people needed Role players help to win, that goes for anyone including MJ. I do think there is really one Finals series though that Lebron just shrunk away and that was the 2011 Finals against Dallas. It was hard to watch him in those 4th quarters where he didn't want the ball and just stood in the corner doing nothing.

5ass
03-08-2016, 07:28 PM
Yes lets give all the credit to kobe for bringing the best out of pau. Phil jackson had nothing to do with it.

kdspurman
03-08-2016, 07:37 PM
Maybe he's just sort of setting it up so he can leave next year , and feel justified in doing so. Assuming they don't win it all ofcourse.

ghettosean
03-08-2016, 07:44 PM
His championship saving rebound was just as big as Ray Allen's finals saving 3 pointer. Without either player Lebron would most likely be 1 - 3 in the finals in Miami assuming he still beats OKC.

people always leave out, that without LeBron having an awesome 4th quarter (something like 14 pts, 3 rebs, 3 assists, a block), including a 3 with 20 seconds to go to bring Miami within 2.

It's ridiculous honestly haha, people act like LeBron is the only guy to have role players step up at big times. Robert ****ing Horry anyone? Steve Kerr? Derrick Fisher? Sean Elliot? List goes on and on

But nope, LeBron's needs to be brought up endlessly.

What does this have to do with what Chronz said? Lebron did have a big 4th quarter though if acknowledging that is what you want.

Additional comment:

This is a thread about Lebron so take a chill pill people are going to talk about him in this thread... SMH :facepalm:

SteBO
03-08-2016, 07:53 PM
People love to point Bosh's numbers, but you do realize he was playing as 3rd option, right? Without him, LBJ has no rings to this day. Without Wade, LBJ has nothing outside of statistical dominance to show for his greatness. LBJ was a primary cog to Miami's success those 4 years, but it wasn't ALL him as is the case with every great player that's won. Wade & Bosh weren't role players either....

On topic, either this is simply a cry for attention because of GSW, or LeBron really doesn't understand the negative message he's sending to his mates. Or, LeBron does understand, but simply doesn't give a damn. Or he's ****ing with people. Either way you slice it, he isn't being a leader in that spot, he's just being the know-it-all winner guy that nobody likes. I couldn't care less about the tweets, but he knows damn well the message he's sending with ALL of it because he knows the media and fans will nitpick his every words to the nth degree.

Tony_Starks
03-08-2016, 08:00 PM
Maybe he's just sort of setting it up so he can leave next year , and feel justified in doing so. Assuming they don't win it all ofcourse.


I can't see that.

If he's setting anything up it would be to trade either Love or Kyrie for a more battle tested guy.

Almost reminds me of how Shaq used to throw Eddie Jones under the bus talking about "if he had a shooter" and we went out and got Glenn Rice to appease him.

ghettosean
03-08-2016, 08:29 PM
People love to point Bosh's numbers, but you do realize he was playing as 3rd option, right? Without him, LBJ has no rings to this day. Without Wade, LBJ has nothing outside of statistical dominance to show for his greatness. LBJ was a primary cog to Miami's success those 4 years, but it wasn't ALL him as is the case with every great player that's won. Wade & Bosh weren't role players either....

On topic, either this is simply a cry for attention because of GSW, or LeBron really doesn't understand the negative message he's sending to his mates. Or, LeBron does understand, but simply doesn't give a damn. Or he's ****ing with people. Either way you slice it, he isn't being a leader in that spot, he's just being the know-it-all winner guy that nobody likes. I couldn't care less about the tweets, but he knows damn well the message he's sending with ALL of it because he knows the media and fans will nitpick his every words to the nth degree.

Thank you drives me crazy to read how bad Bosh was during Lebrons days on the heat as opposed to accepting a role and playing within it all for the success of the team. He was/is the ultimate team player and did all of the above with no ego and remained a great locker room guy and teammate.

Very underrated on that squad and it shows.

kdspurman
03-08-2016, 08:42 PM
I can't see that.

If he's setting anything up it would be to trade either Love or Kyrie for a more battle tested guy.

Almost reminds me of how Shaq used to throw Eddie Jones under the bus talking about "if he had a shooter" and we went out and got Glenn Rice to appease him.

That's true... you never know with him I guess. Him bolting would be kind of a dick move, considering he kinda put all this stuff together in Cleveland.

I guess we'll see how it unfolds. If Kyrie and/or Love struggle come post season, I'm sure we'll get more cryptic messages lolz

J_M_B
03-08-2016, 08:51 PM
Bosh definitely sacrificed the most on those Heat teams and I wish the masses would appreciate that more. The ultimate team player. The guy completely transformed his game for the good of the team. He didn't only expand his range beyond the arc, but he absolutely anchored that defense. He was arguably the best big pick and roll defender in the league and that's from a guy that didn't give a **** about that end of the floor in Toronto. He didn't pout about taking 10 or 11 shots a game either. Much respect.

nastynice
03-09-2016, 02:44 PM
people always leave out, that without LeBron having an awesome 4th quarter (something like 14 pts, 3 rebs, 3 assists, a block), including a 3 with 20 seconds to go to bring Miami within 2.

It's ridiculous honestly haha, people act like LeBron is the only guy to have role players step up at big times. Robert ****ing Horry anyone? Steve Kerr? Derrick Fisher? Sean Elliot? List goes on and on

But nope, LeBron's needs to be brought up endlessly.

X2. That dude busted a 3 when down 5 with like 15 sec left, and NO ONE gives him credit for that. Allens 3 is meaningless if Lebron doesn't hit the one before.

JasonJohnHorn
03-09-2016, 03:58 PM
It's true.

When he was in Cleveland the first time, he played several game-sevens, got to the NBA finals, and pushed his team. In Miami, he was paired with Wade, who had played big games, and role players who has done the same: Haslem, Allen, Jemaine O'Neal, Eddie House, Mike Bibby. I mean, eve guys at the end of the bench had been in deep playoff runs and championship games. That is huge. Guys who have been through the fire know how to prepare themselves mentally and response to tough situations.


Kyrie and Love never had a playoff game before James, and neither one of them was in the NBA finals last year. They need to learn to start treating regular season games like they matter, because if they don't, they won't know how to win when they need to win.

This team was on pace for 60 wins; now they'll be lucky to pull out 58 wins, which might not seem like a lot, but it might cost them the first seed, and it will kill them psychologically in the playoffs. In this east, that roster should be a 65-win team. I realize Irving was out the first part of the season, but they were still on pace for 60 wins when he came back, and now they've gotten worse.



Whatever happens in the offseason, I think it's time to call up the Clippers and see if they'll take Kyrie for CP3.

Bostonjorge
03-09-2016, 04:10 PM
I think cavs will tank to 2nd seed on purpose. 1st seed gets you bulls in the 1st rd and Miami in the second. 2nd seed gets you Pacers and Boston. Calling it right now.

Scoots
03-09-2016, 09:39 PM
It's a real thing ... the Warriors went from a first round exit to the finals last year and it got to them a little. It could be a thing for Kyrie and Love too.