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MTar786
03-08-2016, 10:19 AM
in order form the year 2000, the best the nba has had to offer.. Lets see your rankings. heres mine (off the top of my head)

1. Shaq
2. Curry (might surpass shaq sooner than later)
3. kobe
4. Lebron (for me, it could go either way between kobe and lbj)
5. Duncan
6. Wade
7. Durant
8. Kg
9. Dirk
10a. westbrook (i know most wont have him here but i do)
10b. Tmac (same with this one)


honorable mentions All these guys could replace tmac, I just liked it this way
cp3, allen iverson, steve nash, chris webber, Anthony davis and a few others.

JasonJohnHorn
03-08-2016, 10:31 AM
I don't know how one could pick anybody but Duncan for #1 in that era.


the only player to push his team to 50+ wins every season. Best two-way player in that group. Elite all-time defensively, and though his offense is second to very few big men, he's always had the humility to let it facilitate for other players.

No player has improved teammates the way Duncan has; no player has had as high a defensive impact every year; no player has won more ring, or more games. No player has been as solid a rebounder every year in that time frame. Only one player has more ASGs, and several of them he didn't deserve. Nobody has more finals MVPs in that group.


I'm not sure how Curry and Shaw get ahead of Duncan, nor LBJ or Kobe.


If you want to say who had the highest peak year... ok... the doors open. But if you are talking between 2000 and now, nobody has been able to do what Duncan has year in and year out.


The only edge that Kobe has is he's won 5 rings in that time, where Duncan has won 4, because his first ring came in 99.

HandsOnTheWheel
03-08-2016, 10:52 AM
Still way too early to be ranking Curry above the greats.


Shaq
Duncan
Kobe
Lebron (interchangable at #3)
Wade
Curry
Dirk
KG
Durant
9/10: PP, AI, WB, Nash, Pau, CB, VC, TMac, AD, Melo.

MTar786
03-08-2016, 10:55 AM
im not ranking careers. im talking about most impressive players you have seen since the 2000 season onwards. thats why i have tmac there too.

HandsOnTheWheel
03-08-2016, 11:14 AM
Top 10 players like it says in the title, or top 10 most impressive? Big difference.

Tony_Starks
03-08-2016, 12:48 PM
Shaq
Kobe
Duncan
Lebron
Wade
KG
KD
Iverson
Steph
Paul Pierce

FraziersKnicks
03-08-2016, 01:11 PM
Duncan
Bron
Shaq
Kobe
KG
Dirk
Wade
KD
CP3
Curry

FraziersKnicks
03-08-2016, 01:29 PM
Duncan
Bron
Shaq
Kobe
Dirk
KG
Wade
KD
Curry
CP3

Timmy is a no brainer. I've got Bron over Shaq because Shaq was only really elite until around 2003-04. I take LeBron's career over 4 years of Shaq dominance.

Curry has been incredible for the past 3/4 seasons but that's not enough to put him above guys like KD/Wade/Dirk/KG who have entire career's of brilliance.

J_M_B
03-08-2016, 01:41 PM
Duncan
LeBron
Kobe
Shaq
KG
Wade
Dirk
Durant
CP3
Curry

DanG
03-08-2016, 02:16 PM
So peaks basically?

Shaq
LeBron
Kobe
Curry (if he keeps his play up through the playoffs)
Duncan
Wade
Dirk
KG
KD
T-Mac

WaDe03
03-08-2016, 02:26 PM
Wade
Wade
Wade
Wade
Wade
Wade
Wade
Wade
Wade
Wade

Hawkeye15
03-08-2016, 02:53 PM
Duncan
Bron
Shaq
Kobe
Dirk
KG
Wade
KD
Curry
CP3


this would be my order as well currently.

mngopher35
03-08-2016, 03:06 PM
Shaq
Lebron
Duncan

I think these three are pretty easy to rank at the top. Shaq/Lebron might both be in top 5 ever for peak level dominance and Duncan's defense easily has him up there as well (that 03 run was incredible, one of best ever). Can switch order within but no one would move down a level imo.


Kobe
Curry - tough to rank before he finishes this season but he will fit in with that group above with elite playoffs
Dirk
Wade
KG
Durant

You can mix these guys up a little as well but none of them had the peak level of the top 3. Kobe was most consistently great if you will but his peak level was below those above. I just put curry in between where he was last season and likely falls after this season but he is on track to join the list above if he is close to his RS performance.

Last I probably put CP3 or maybe TMAC

Jeffy25
03-08-2016, 03:20 PM
Since the 2000-20001 season to today:

WS - LeBron, Dirk, Duncan, Garnett, Kobe, Paul, Pau, Nash, Wade, Howard
PER - LeBron, Paul, Shaq, Durant, Wade, Duncan, Dirk, Garnett, Kobe, Curry
TS% - Curry, Nash, Harden, Durant, Howard, Yao, Amar'e, Shaq, Manu, Dirk (LeBron)


LeBron and Duncan have to your top 2 players. Shaq and Kobe have seen declines during this time, and Garnett and Dirk belong in the top 5. Durant and Curry are too new to the group, and Chris Paul and D. Wade deserve some discussion.

My ranking would be as follows:

1. Duncan
2. LeBron
3. Kobe
4. Dirk
5. Garnett
6. Shaq
7. Chris Paul
8. Pau Gasol
9. Curry
10. Durant

Jeffy25
03-08-2016, 03:21 PM
So peaks basically?

Shaq
LeBron
Kobe
Curry (if he keeps his play up through the playoffs)
Duncan
Wade
Dirk
KG
KD
T-Mac

As a Laker fan, you are required to have Kobe above Bron, don't you know that?

mngopher35
03-08-2016, 03:52 PM
Wait it seems like some are doing prime and some just overall since 2000. Mine was based off peak level but Duncan to top shaq down below Kobe at least and curry/durant below the guys who have been around for longer spans if just in total since 2000.

FraziersKnicks
03-08-2016, 04:28 PM
Shaq
Duncan
Dirk
Garnett
Kobe
Webber
James
Curry
Durant
Chris Paul

Chris Webber above LeBron?

Are you actually Chris Webber?

celticsman2009
03-08-2016, 04:44 PM
Duncan
Shaq
Lebron
Kobe
Garnett
Dirk
Pierce
Curry
Durant
Wade

NFLNBA
03-08-2016, 04:47 PM
Shaq - Most dominate player ever
Kobe - Only player comparable to best ever
Duncan - Just a solid player. Behind Kobe to me because he had same trio and coach entire time, not even best player on team last couple finals appearances
Lebron - Does everything except come up in biggest games. 2-4 in Finals...we all know should be 1-5 if not for Ray Allen
Garnett - Dude was a beast on both ends. Waisted a lot of years in Minny

Bostonjorge
03-08-2016, 04:55 PM
Seeing how Kobe dominated the championships since then how could he not be #1.

Shaq still had those couple of seasons where he would of destroyed the dream the way shaq destroyed young prime Duncan.

NFLNBA
03-08-2016, 05:17 PM
Seeing how Kobe dominated the championships since then how could he not be #1.

Shaq still had those couple of seasons where he would of destroyed the dream the way shaq destroyed young prime Duncan.

People put a lot of into Kobe only having 1 MVP which most of us that are old enough watched him get robbed many times of it. Year he averaged 35,5,5 which hasn't been done since MJ, he lost to Nash because Kobe's Lakers were only 7th seed. Thats why i dont get the MVP award. It doesnt go to best player....it goes to best player with great teammates and overall team. Anyone that can take a team that starts Smush Parker and Kwame Brown 7 games against a 2 seed deserves that MVP award lol KObe waisted a lot of prime years on a bad squad unfortunately. He had to threatn leaving to bring in Gasol to change things for him

mngopher35
03-08-2016, 05:47 PM
People put a lot of into Kobe only having 1 MVP which most of us that are old enough watched him get robbed many times of it. Year he averaged 35,5,5 which hasn't been done since MJ, he lost to Nash because Kobe's Lakers were only 7th seed. Thats why i dont get the MVP award. It doesnt go to best player....it goes to best player with great teammates and overall team. Anyone that can take a team that starts Smush Parker and Kwame Brown 7 games against a 2 seed deserves that MVP award lol KObe waisted a lot of prime years on a bad squad unfortunately. He had to threatn leaving to bring in Gasol to change things for him

Actually it has more to do with not overrating him for his teams accomplishments and looking at the individual (for example winning as 2nd option is not as impressive as being the best player in the league which you seem to try and use against only Duncan but not Kobe which is ignoring major context). His MVP alone doesn't take him out of the running for a top spot here it is that he didn't spend much time as the clear best player in the NBA throughout his career. Shaq only has 1 MVP but there is a strong argument that he has the highest peak out of any of these guys. It is the context behind the awards and not just the awards themselves that make people drop Kobe lower on the list and have others at the top.

Shaq was clearly the most dominant player in the league 00-01 and likely 02, Duncan had a few years mixed in at the top from 02-05 or so but 03 especially was unbelievable and clearly best in league, Lebron spent about 5 or more years widely considered the best, Kobe on the other hand has a mix of years where you could argue it but it was never clear cut on top like the others. His level of defense in his prime/peak was not at the same level as the other 3 (granted they are all bigger which helps them anchor and in Lebrons case also versatility). His level of passing/creating doesn't really separate him too much from the bigs due to the attention they garnered from defenses and is clearly below Lebron. His rebounding isn't as good as anyone of them. His scoring is the one area where he comes out on top here but Lebron and Shaq weren't far off in the combination of volume+efficiency. All in all as an individual he just doesn't quite reach the level of these three.

It is interesting because I always see 06 mentioned like you did as the year he was clearly the best player but his playoff performance was bad and his team lost first round. Then those same people want to point to team success (for example you mentioned Lebrons finals record as holding him back which is ridiculous for other reasons as well) as a main factor to raise him higher. I agree 06 is probably his best argument as top player in the game since it was his peak and his defense was dropping off as time went on but you have to realize then ranking an individual goes far outside of team success.

Dade County
03-08-2016, 06:04 PM
Shaq
Duncan
Lbj
Kobe
Wade
KG
KD
Dirk
Curry
?

europagnpilgrim
03-08-2016, 06:19 PM
Duncan
Bron
Shaq
Kobe
Dirk
KG
Wade
KD
Curry
CP3

Timmy is a no brainer. I've got Bron over Shaq because Shaq was only really elite until around 2003-04. I take LeBron's career over 4 years of Shaq dominance.

Curry has been incredible for the past 3/4 seasons but that's not enough to put him above guys like KD/Wade/Dirk/KG who have entire career's of brilliance.

Shaq was elite rookie year to 04', but good try and for his age and big man and injury history 05' also, go name a rookie big man- Center who posted like 24ppg and 14rpg, and I bet they were all elite off top

Kush McDaniels
03-08-2016, 06:22 PM
Curry can't be above Lebron, Duncan, Shaq, Kobe, Dirk, KG, Wade... I'm not sure if I'd put him above CP3 or KD yet either. He's great right now, but he has been playing at this level for only 2ish seasons now.

Lakers + Giants
03-08-2016, 07:03 PM
1 Shaq
1 Duncan
3 Lebron
4 Kobe
5 Curry (need at least 1 more mvp season from him to launch him above kobe and maybe even bron)
6 Garnett
7 Nowitzki
8 Durant
9 Wade
10 CP3

Shammyguy3
03-08-2016, 10:45 PM
Shaq - Most dominate player ever
Kobe - Only player comparable to best ever
Duncan - Just a solid player. Behind Kobe to me because he had same trio and coach entire time, not even best player on team last couple finals appearances
Lebron - Does everything except come up in biggest games. 2-4 in Finals...we all know should be 1-5 if not for Ray Allen
Garnett - Dude was a beast on both ends. Waisted a lot of years in Minny

Duncan, just a solid player? How does Duncan having the same trio (he hasn't really) and coach the entire time be a negative for him? Duncan's Been the best player on his teams more than Kobe has (4 times), and their levels of production the past three years have been widely in favor of Duncan (even at one year older).

Lebron does show up in big games. His teams have often let him down. I love how a Finals record comes down to one player though, and then just beneath that you say Garnett was a beast on both ends but waisted years in Minnesota even though Garnett way under-produced his regular season prowess when it came to the playoffs

valade16
03-08-2016, 11:09 PM
I took it to mean in terms of best peak you ever saw after the year 2000. Mine would be (not necessarily in order):

TIER 1:
Shaq
Bron
TD
Curry (could be #1)
Kobe

TIER2:
Dirk
Wade
KG
KD
T-Mac

LA_Raiders
03-08-2016, 11:23 PM
1. Kobe - folks around here have short term memory
2. Shaq
3. Duncan
4. KG
5. LeBron
6. Wade
7. Paul Gasol
8. Dirk
9. Chris Paul
10. Durant

WaDe03
03-09-2016, 12:56 AM
Curry isn't anywhere near the 2 way player Wade, Kobe, or LeBron were. The guys great but he's not better than any of them. I figured I would just comment on some of the perimeter players on people's lists.

More-Than-Most
03-09-2016, 01:23 AM
Since the 2000-20001 season to today:

WS - LeBron, Dirk, Duncan, Garnett, Kobe, Paul, Pau, Nash, Wade, Howard
PER - LeBron, Paul, Shaq, Durant, Wade, Duncan, Dirk, Garnett, Kobe, Curry
TS% - Curry, Nash, Harden, Durant, Howard, Yao, Amar'e, Shaq, Manu, Dirk (LeBron)


LeBron and Duncan have to your top 2 players. Shaq and Kobe have seen declines during this time, and Garnett and Dirk belong in the top 5. Durant and Curry are too new to the group, and Chris Paul and D. Wade deserve some discussion.

My ranking would be as follows:

1. Duncan
2. LeBron
3. Kobe
4. Dirk
5. Garnett
6. Shaq
7. Chris Paul
8. Pau Gasol
9. Curry
10. Durant

Spot on and this would be mine as well... There is 0 argument for the top 2 outside of James and Duncan... Yet I see people having Kobe/Shaq/Curry over james :rolleyes:

More-Than-Most
03-09-2016, 01:26 AM
1. Kobe - folks around here have short term memory
2. Shaq
3. Duncan
4. KG
5. LeBron
6. Wade
7. Paul Gasol
8. Dirk
9. Chris Paul
10. Durant

No they do not have short term memory... They just understand that championships when evaluating 1 individual is dumb when every other single area goes for said players... There is no argument or weight for anyone besides Duncan/Bron 1 and 2... There just isnt.. Someone please give their reasoning.

Jeffy25
03-09-2016, 01:38 AM
Spot on and this would be mine as well... There is 0 argument for the top 2 outside of James and Duncan... Yet I see people having Kobe/Shaq/Curry over james :rolleyes:

Shaq might have been the most dominant, but we are cutting his peak in half with the 2000 season there. And you have to group in his long decline here.

My 3-6 could be interchanged based on how much you want to value peak vs longevity

mngopher35
03-09-2016, 02:11 AM
No they do not have short term memory... They just understand that championships when evaluating 1 individual is dumb when every other single area goes for said players... There is no argument or weight for anyone besides Duncan/Bron 1 and 2... There just isnt.. Someone please give their reasoning.

I put Shaq at 1 because the op stated in the 4th post he is not talking careers but most impressive players we have seen in the span aka peak. That is my argument for not having Lebron and Duncan 1/2 but I could see the argument for any of the 3 honestly.

Bostonjorge
03-09-2016, 05:15 AM
Actually it has more to do with not overrating him for his teams accomplishments and looking at the individual (for example winning as 2nd option is not as impressive as being the best player in the league which you seem to try and use against only Duncan but not Kobe which is ignoring major context). His MVP alone doesn't take him out of the running for a top spot here it is that he didn't spend much time as the clear best player in the NBA throughout his career. Shaq only has 1 MVP but there is a strong argument that he has the highest peak out of any of these guys. It is the context behind the awards and not just the awards themselves that make people drop Kobe lower on the list and have others at the top.

Shaq was clearly the most dominant player in the league 00-01 and likely 02, Duncan had a few years mixed in at the top from 02-05 or so but 03 especially was unbelievable and clearly best in league, Lebron spent about 5 or more years widely considered the best, Kobe on the other hand has a mix of years where you could argue it but it was never clear cut on top like the others. His level of defense in his prime/peak was not at the same level as the other 3 (granted they are all bigger which helps them anchor and in Lebrons case also versatility). His level of passing/creating doesn't really separate him too much from the bigs due to the attention they garnered from defenses and is clearly below Lebron. His rebounding isn't as good as anyone of them. His scoring is the one area where he comes out on top here but Lebron and Shaq weren't far off in the combination of volume+efficiency. All in all as an individual he just doesn't quite reach the level of these three.

It is interesting because I always see 06 mentioned like you did as the year he was clearly the best player but his playoff performance was bad and his team lost first round. Then those same people want to point to team success (for example you mentioned Lebrons finals record as holding him back which is ridiculous for other reasons as well) as a main factor to raise him higher. I agree 06 is probably his best argument as top player in the game since it was his peak and his defense was dropping off as time went on but you have to realize then ranking an individual goes far outside of team success.

Kobe has eliminated more of all the players listed and more times combined in the playoffs then any other player. Since 2000 Kobe has more Rings, points, all star selections and all NBA teams then anyone listed. Most 60 point games ect.....Eliminated more 50 win teams in the playoffs. Has a dynasty and a back to back, only shaq has a dynasty and James and Wade have a back to back.

You look up the weakest conferences in the leagues history and since 2000 the east will have many spots on the top 10. Can we evenly compare a player putting up amazing individual numbers against tier 2-3 teams evenly against players putting up similar numbers but against the elite teams?

James has a losing record against teams with 50 wins or more during the playoffs. That makes his individual
numbers against tier 2-3 teams less impressive. Duncan and pop easily figured how to beat James. Kobe on the other hand has dominated pop in head to head playoff matchups.

mngopher35
03-09-2016, 05:40 AM
Kobe has eliminated more of all the players listed and more times combined in the playoffs then any other player. Since 2000 Kobe has more Rings, points, all star selections and all NBA teams then anyone listed. Most 60 point games ect.....Eliminated more 50 win teams in the playoffs. Has a dynasty and a back to back, only shaq has a dynasty and James and Wade have a back to back.

You look up the weakest conferences in the leagues history and since 2000 the east will have many spots on the top 10. Can we evenly compare a player putting up amazing individual numbers against tier 2-3 teams evenly against players putting up similar numbers but against the elite teams?

James has a losing record against teams with 50 wins or more during the playoffs. That makes his individual
numbers against tier 2-3 teams less impressive. Duncan and pop easily figured how to beat James. Kobe on the other hand has dominated pop in head to head playoff matchups.

Almost everything you said has to do with team accomplishments not individuals. Again there is a major difference between playing on Cleveland from 03-10 and starting your career with Phil and Shaq so right off the bat we need to look far deeper than team accomplishments. I agree the east is worse but if you look at their career numbers Kobe and Lebron have better (similar) stats against the west for their careers (outside of DRTG which isn't supposed to be used for individuals anyways). The east is less talented overall but normally teams try and make up for their lack of star power with defense and slowing the pace (even top teams that won over the span like Boston and Pistons are more defense). An example of how team accomplishments don't give the whole story is 09 playoffs where Lebron could put up 38.5, 8, 8 on amazing efficiency yet his team would still lose to one of those 50 win teams (while Kobe at 32.4, 7.4, 5.6 and worse efficiency would end up with FMVP). The difference here is that Kobe's teammates could keep Dwight in check (it certainly wasn't him) and he has another player (Pau) stepping up as well with amazing efficiency. To people just judging off team success this is one of the best years in Kobe's career while being a failure for Lebron. Context matters far more than simply looking at which teams won.

When it comes to comparing them as individuals everything I said comes into play and it is why Kobe is below the other three on my list. Again though I was talking about peak play since that is what the op seemed to mention (and his list looked that way).

mrblisterdundee
03-09-2016, 03:02 PM
Duncan
Bron
Shaq
Kobe
Dirk
KG
Wade
KD
Curry
CP3

Timmy is a no brainer. I've got Bron over Shaq because Shaq was only really elite until around 2003-04. I take LeBron's career over 4 years of Shaq dominance.

Curry has been incredible for the past 3/4 seasons but that's not enough to put him above guys like KD/Wade/Dirk/KG who have entire career's of brilliance.

Shaq was a beast for a little over a decade. The differences were whatever team he was on. It wasn't like 1960, when Chamberlain dominantly rolled in as one of two 7-footers among a majority of shorter, less athletic white players in a league averaging significantly more points and rebounds.
Give Shaq his due. He is the most physically dominant center in the history of basketball. If he had a better work ethic and got along better with Bryant, he'd have at least a couple more ships.

FraziersKnicks
03-09-2016, 03:09 PM
Shaq was a beast for a little over a decade. The differences were whatever team he was on. It wasn't like 1960, when Chamberlain dominantly rolled in as one of two 7-footers among a majority of shorter, less athletic white players in a league averaging significantly more points and rebounds.
Give Shaq his due. He is the most physically dominant center in the history of basketball. If he had a better work ethic and got along better with Bryant, he'd have at least a couple more ships.

Oh I completely agree, I'm not arguing Shaq's dominance. I have him top 5 all-time. But from 2000 onwards he only really had 4/5 elite years. He falls victim to having a prime that straddles 2 decades (94-05 or something).

That's why I've got LeBron and Timmy ahead of him. They've just got a bigger body of work from 2000 onwards.

mrblisterdundee
03-09-2016, 04:35 PM
Oh I completely agree, I'm not arguing Shaq's dominance. I have him top 5 all-time. But from 2000 onwards he only really had 4/5 elite years. He falls victim to having a prime that straddles 2 decades (94-05 or something).

That's why I've got LeBron and Timmy ahead of him. They've just got a bigger body of work from 2000 onwards.

I guess I spaced on that time issue. Shaq was drafted in 1992, so it's crazy how much longevity he had, even leaving some work ethic on the table. I would be willing to revise my rankings and move him down two spots to account for it.

1. Tim Duncan
2. Lebron James
3. Shaquille O'Neal
4. Kobe Bryant
5. Kevin Garnett
6. Dwyane Wade
7. Dirk Nowitzki
8. Stephen Curry
9. Kevin Durant
10. Pau Gasol

celticsman2009
03-09-2016, 05:50 PM
I'm surprised people don't include Pierce in the discussion. I may be a Celtics fan, but I'd take prime Pierce over CP3.

Lakers + Giants
03-09-2016, 06:12 PM
I'm surprised people don't include Pierce in the discussion. I may be a Celtics fan, but I'd take prime Pierce over CP3.

prime pierce over prime cp3? I woudnt

look! big kids
03-09-2016, 06:45 PM
I would have the following ten guys, in loose sequential order:

Lebron
Shaq
Duncan
Curry
Garnett
Durant
CP3
Kobe
Wade
Dirk

I tend to value multi-year “peak interval” over longevity, individual contributions (including strength of individual “burden”) over team success, sustained excellence over specific playoff and series results, and of course several other personal (e.g. aesthetic) preferences, such as for player intelligence, multifacetedness, and efficiency over scoring volume and the fortune of great teammates.

This is nothing at all rigid; Kobe could be moved up some spots, perhaps Wade can even move up a bit, Paul can move down a bit, and several others could certainly be justified in being placed above Curry, although at the moment I’m one in the choir of awed onlookers who feels they’re witnessing a talent of such magnitude that it resembles something like a Primary Fact. Again, while my own list values statistical evaluation and insight, we have to acknowledge that the final call is aesthetic.

Gametime
03-10-2016, 06:52 PM
Shaq
Duncan
Dirk
Garnett
Webber
Kobe
James
Durant
Curry
CP3

honorable mention
B. Wallace, Amare, Nash, Iverson, Howard, Vince, Parker, Leonard, Draymond

Gametime
03-10-2016, 06:55 PM
I would have the following ten guys, in loose sequential order:

Lebron
Shaq
Duncan
Curry
Garnett
Durant
CP3
Kobe
Wade
Dirk

I tend to value multi-year “peak interval” over longevity, individual contributions (including strength of individual “burden”) over team success, sustained excellence over specific playoff and series results, and of course several other personal (e.g. aesthetic) preferences, such as for player intelligence, multifacetedness, and efficiency over scoring volume and the fortune of great teammates.

This is nothing at all rigid; Kobe could be moved up some spots, perhaps Wade can even move up a bit, Paul can move down a bit, and several others could certainly be justified in being placed above Curry, although at the moment I’m one in the choir of awed onlookers who feels they’re witnessing a talent of such magnitude that it resembles something like a Primary Fact. Again, while my own list values statistical evaluation and insight, we have to acknowledge that the final call is aesthetic.

I don't think you remember how much of a matchup problem teams had with Dirk Nowitzki. 7'0"245 postgame, mid range and three point game. He could drive the ball aswell.