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View Full Version : Stephen Curry; First Ever Unanimous MVP?



Gander13SM
03-03-2016, 11:02 PM
Do you think this will happen? I feel like if ever there's been a year recently this is the one, nobody even comes close when you take into account all of the advanced metrics on top of the raw stats, team record and just the general eye test.

BUT I feel like somebody will ruin the vote, just like they did with LeBron back in the day.

If you think it won't be unanimous who do you think will spoil it?

Wade n Fade
03-03-2016, 11:14 PM
No way. Everyone needs to get off Curry's junk. My MVP candidate would be Damian Lillard. The Warriors have won games without Curry. What can the Blazers do without their backcourt? Probably not much. The phrase is "Most Valuable Player," not "Top Player."

Kush McDaniels
03-03-2016, 11:17 PM
No way. Everyone needs to get off Curry's junk. My MVP candidate would be Damian Lillard. The Warriors have won games without Curry. What can the Blazers do without their backcourt? Probably not much. The phrase is "Most Valuable Player," not "Top Player."

Might as well give it to Kyle Lowry with that logic.

Gander13SM
03-03-2016, 11:34 PM
No way. Everyone needs to get off Curry's junk. My MVP candidate would be Damian Lillard. The Warriors have won games without Curry. What can the Blazers do without their backcourt? Probably not much. The phrase is "Most Valuable Player," not "Top Player."

lmao, you can't be serious. Are you new to NBA? Name one MVP where it's been a guy who's team is barely making the playoffs and he's barely a top 10 player in the league.

Curry, by every advanced metric, is having the greatest offensive season in basketball history. There's a reason people are "on his junk".

Scoots
03-04-2016, 12:43 AM
He won't get it unanimous ... but only because there is some guy out there who will vote a different way just to get the recognition.

ManningToTyree
03-04-2016, 01:45 AM
He won't get it unanimous ... but only because there is some guy out there who will vote a different way just to get the recognition. this

JAZZNC
03-04-2016, 03:56 AM
If the Spurs get the third or fourth best record Kawhi will get a vote or two and I would kinda be ok with that. There is at least an argument given his impact on both ends.

Monta is beast
03-04-2016, 03:57 AM
He said damian lillard haha..i got mad love for lillard but you cant be serious

Monta is beast
03-04-2016, 03:59 AM
MVP right. Most valuable player. Warriors would be fighting for a playoff spot without curry. Not one of the most dominant teams in history.

Monta is beast
03-04-2016, 04:00 AM
I could see kawhi getting a few westbrrok could get some of numbers alone

mngopher35
03-04-2016, 04:31 AM
I don't know if it will happen but it is one of the years it should (I think it was 13 when I thought Lebron could/would/should but Melo got one vote). As Scoots mentioned someone might just vote someone else for recognition. He has been unbelievable this year though so I think it is possible.

tredigs
03-04-2016, 04:45 AM
If the Spurs get the third or fourth best record Kawhi will get a vote or two and I would kinda be ok with that. There is at least an argument given his impact on both ends.
Third or fourth best lol wtf? Have you been paying attention my man... they're going to have the 2nd best record by a significant margin and maybe the third best record in NBA history behind the 72 win Bulls and these Warriors. They have not lost a game at home. Their SRS would be #1 in NBA history if the season ended today (just realized maybe you meant 3rd or 4th best... All Time?).

That said, the Warriors embarrassed them in their only h2h so far and Curry has frankly been much better from a pure dominance standpoint than Kawhi.

Spurs do get the Warriors at home twice still though, and both of those are road b2b's for Golden State. So, that's two games San Antonio likely win, and if Kawhi plays awesome, that's going to sway a couple votes I'm sure.

Only way it's potentially unanimous is if:

A) The Warriors win their home game against San Antonio and go through the reg season undefeated at home

B) The Warriors win at least one of the road games against San Antonio and spoil the Spurs own home perfection

C) Curry stays playing Nova through all of this and finishing the season >30/5/5 on >50/40/90 and breaks the record for PER + hits 400+ threes (absolutely obliterating his own record by well over 100).

D) Warriors break 72-10

If he/they did all of the above, I can't see any way that even a self-serving contrarian would have the balls to vote for somebody other than Curry.

Either way, the MVP debate does not exist and has not existed for some time. Which is ridiculously rare (I can't recall it ever being this obvious so early in the year). In that 2012/13 season (where Lebron was 1 vote off in the end), many fans/writers (including myself) had KD as the front-runner until Lebron went Nova in February during the Heats 26 game win streak. That's what changed that vote. KD put up 28/8/5 on >50/40/90 and lead them to the West 1 seed. Prior to that streak and Lebron's amazing month (best of his career), he had a great case for MVP. This season? Kawhi's an amazing all around player, but 20.6/6.7/2.5 just doesn't jump off the page enough to win an MVP award.

HouRealCoach
03-04-2016, 08:19 AM
If the Spurs get the third or fourth best record Kawhi will get a vote or two and I would kinda be ok with that. There is at least an argument given his impact on both ends.

Spurs will have the second best record....

kdspurman
03-04-2016, 08:56 AM
I could see kawhi getting a few westbrrok could get some of numbers alone

Pretty much this. There will be a couple different votes sprinkled in

Scoots
03-04-2016, 09:41 AM
LeBron will get some from writers who want to be in his good graces.

Scoots
03-04-2016, 09:45 AM
Spurs will have the second best record....
I think he meant all time.

Vinylman
03-04-2016, 09:45 AM
If Winhorst has a vote you can forget about it...

JAZZNC
03-04-2016, 11:01 AM
I think he meant all time.

Glad somebody was smart enough to figure that out. Tredigs killing me over that one. If they finish with the third best record of all time Kawhi almost has to get a vote.

Raidaz4Life
03-04-2016, 12:09 PM
Glad somebody was smart enough to figure that out. Tredigs killing me over that one. If they finish with the third best record of all time Kawhi almost has to get a vote.

I don't get how... he would be going up against the guy who got the best record of all time.

Scoots
03-04-2016, 12:19 PM
If Winhorst has a vote you can forget about it...

From what he's said I think Curry would get his vote.

Regardless ... I'd be stunned if someone didn't vote for someone else. Kawhi, LeBron, CP3, AD, Harden.

With who votes for who often becoming known now beat writers often don't want to offend a guy they are covering.

shep33
03-04-2016, 12:47 PM
I think Kawhi might get a vote at least. Don't get me wrong, Curry gets my vote, but damn Kawhi has been phenomenal.

51% from the field, 48.4% from deep, 88% from the line.

Oh and he's the best defensive player in the NBA.

kdspurman
03-04-2016, 01:12 PM
I think Kawhi might get a vote at least. Don't get me wrong, Curry gets my vote, but damn Kawhi has been phenomenal.

51% from the field, 48.4% from deep, 88% from the line.

Oh and he's the best defensive player in the NBA.

He's doing great things. He just doesn't stand out to people cause he's not scoring 30ppg or trying to be too flashy out there.

He's doing things no one else really is. That doesn't take away from what Curry is doing, but he's been terrific.

Scoots
03-04-2016, 01:42 PM
Offense always sells more than D. Curry's all-time best offensive season is going to get him the majority of the votes, but Kawhi is right there and should finish second. I can't really imagine anyone passing Kawhi.

tredigs
03-04-2016, 02:49 PM
Glad somebody was smart enough to figure that out. Tredigs killing me over that one. If they finish with the third best record of all time Kawhi almost has to get a vote.

I realized halfway through my paragraph that's what you might have meant and wrote as much. "All Time" is sort of an important part of the sentence to leave out. You say he "almost has to get a vote", and I agree that he probably will, but why? What would his case over Curry be? It won't be based on individual success, and it won't be based on team success.


Offense always sells more than D. Curry's all-time best offensive season is going to get him the majority of the votes, but Kawhi is right there and should finish second. I can't really imagine anyone passing Kawhi.
If we're being honest he's really not "right there" though. Nothing he does on defense can have anything remotely close to the same impact on the game as what Curry does offensively (and to the opposing TEAM defense). He's also been very strong offensively, but Steph is in a whole 'nother stratosphere, and even stats like "RPM" or "VORP" which will do a great job at understanding how dominant Kawhi has been overall as a player, Curry takes the cake. Those are stats that guys like Ben Wallace have finished top 5 in.

With VORP, Lebron was #1 from 07-13. Durant #1 in '14 (Lebron #2 - Curry #6), and Curry has lead the past two seasons. Curry is #1 in both VORP and RPM. Kawhi #2 in RPM, #6 in VORP.

Edit: Not to go overboard on this one stat here, but I just wanted to see Kobe's results and I though it was super interesting: He finished top 10 in VORP 7 times in his career, never higher than 3rd (did that once). Duncan finished top 3 five times, and top 8 nine times. GARNETT finished top 10 eleven straight years, including FIRST 3 straight years from '03-'05. Can't say that is ultra shocking. His all-around game was maybe even better than Duncan's at his peak. Just two very different landing spots for those two greats.

YAALREADYKNO
03-04-2016, 02:53 PM
I think it'll happen

IndyRealist
03-04-2016, 02:57 PM
A) most voters don't look at advanced metrics. They're sports writers, talking heads, etc that still think PER is cutting edge.
B) there is an argument for Kawhi and Westbrook. They'll each probably get at least one vote.
C) there will always be one c*ckblock, regardless.

kdspurman
03-04-2016, 03:00 PM
No one is arguing Curry isn't the MVP guys lol. But it's not out of the question or out of this world to think Kawhi or Westbrook or anyone else might get a couple votes, just based on how previous seasons have played out

SLY WILLIAMS
03-04-2016, 03:01 PM
He is having one of those unreal seasons that is a large step up from his already good play in prior years. It that way it reminds me a little of when Tmac got on a roll in 2002-2003 where he just could not be guarded at times but he was not this kind of shooter. Durant was close to this level a couple of seasons ago but not this good.

Gander13SM
03-04-2016, 03:11 PM
A) most voters don't look at advanced metrics. They're sports writers, talking heads, etc that still think PER is cutting edge.
B) there is an argument for Kawhi and Westbrook. They'll each probably get at least one vote.
C) there will always be one c*ckblock, regardless.

Westbrook? Who leads the league in turnovers in the 4th quarter and constantly makes bonehead decisions?

If anything, it would be KD. Not Westbrook.

tredigs
03-04-2016, 03:14 PM
No one is arguing Curry isn't the MVP guys lol. But it's not out of the question or out of this world to think Kawhi or Westbrook or anyone else might get a couple votes, just based on how previous seasons have played out

I think everyone's on board with that sentiment. I was just breaking down why that does not necessarily make sense. We say, they should "get a vote or two", but when you break down that an actual person has to decide that X player is in fact the MVP over Y player, it really does not make sense. Like, after those GSW/OKC games that all just played out, how could a person vote Westbrook over Curry for MVP? And so far with the SAS/GSW matchups, same with Curry/Kawhi. Obviously there is more of a story to be had there and I outlined why I thought Kawhi would in fact get a vote, but it still does not make much sense. Especially with Curry as the front runner from the first week of the season on. No MVP award has ever had less doubt tbh.

A) most voters don't look at advanced metrics. They're sports writers, talking heads, etc that still think PER is cutting edge.
B) there is an argument for Kawhi and Westbrook. They'll each probably get at least one vote.
C) there will always be one c*ckblock, regardless.

True of course. I was bringing them up to see if I could find any situation where Kawhi could have an edge on Curry based on some random advanced stat that could better understand his complete impact and a particular writer could use that as his crux for the vote. I couldn't.

Jay 20
03-04-2016, 03:16 PM
He is having such an unreal season and it's coming off his best season statistically and a championship. I have seen conversations about how he could be the most improved player of the year as well as the MVP. No MVP as upped their PPG from their MVP season to the next as much as he has and he is going to have a 90-50-40 season.

I think he is the unanimous MVP.

Would I be shocked if someone did not vote for him and he wasn't? No.

Hopper15
03-04-2016, 05:51 PM
If the Warriors win 73 I think the first place votes will be unanimous for Curry.

Scoots
03-04-2016, 06:09 PM
If we're being honest he's really not "right there" though.

2nd is "right there" ... he's in 2nd. He can't be any closer to 1st than 2nd :)

CHANGO
03-04-2016, 06:19 PM
He should get the unanimous MVP, but in terms of deserving he's not the only one who should deserve the "Unanimous MVP Award" Lebron a couple of years was the clear MVP, Jordan a couple of years too. Etc... But yeah, it probable that it won't happen, haters everywhere.

tredigs
03-04-2016, 06:32 PM
2nd is "right there" ... he's in 2nd. He can't be any closer to 1st than 2nd :)

Lol. Think of it as a 82 kilometer race where one guy soared out to a torrid head start and the 2nd place finisher (and 3rd and 4th) were all 10 kilometers behind even at the end.


He should get the unanimous MVP, but in terms of deserving he's not the only one who should deserve the "Unanimous MVP Award" Lebron a couple of years was the clear MVP, Jordan a couple of years too. Etc... But yeah, it probable that it won't happen, haters everywhere.

Lebron was not the clear MVP until the end of February though.

Scoots
03-04-2016, 07:47 PM
Lol. Think of it as a 82 kilometer race where one guy soared out to a torrid head start and the 2nd place finisher (and 3rd and 4th) were all 10 kilometers behind even at the end.

Yeah, and in the trophy presentation on the tallest stand with the biggest trophy is Curry ... and lo and be hold to his right ... right there is Kawhi :)

LOL

Curry hasn't quite lapped the field, but he can see them up ahead.

IndyRealist
03-04-2016, 08:29 PM
Westbrook? Who leads the league in turnovers in the 4th quarter and constantly makes bonehead decisions?

If anything, it would be KD. Not Westbrook.

You're implying that MVP voting is about who DESERVES the MVP, which it is not. It's about media perception of the players. Westbrook is the story right now, not Durant.

blahblahyoutoo
03-04-2016, 08:32 PM
No way. Everyone needs to get off Curry's junk. My MVP candidate would be Damian Lillard. The Warriors have won games without Curry. What can the Blazers do without their backcourt? Probably not much. The phrase is "Most Valuable Player," not "Top Player."

did you see how much they struggled against ATL without curry??
they'd be a fringe playoff team without curry.

tredigs
03-04-2016, 09:28 PM
Yeah, and in the trophy presentation on the tallest stand with the biggest trophy is Curry ... and lo and be hold to his right ... right there is Kawhi :)

LOL

Curry hasn't quite lapped the field, but he can see them up ahead.

Lol... well now apply that to a situation where the race is then voted on for its Most Valuable Competitor and where there is no podium. Just the trophy or bust.

JasonJohnHorn
03-04-2016, 11:04 PM
If you take Curry off the Warriors, and put in another point guard, say Mike Conley, that would still be an AMAZING team.

You take LeBron James off the Cavs for the entire season and replace him with with Gallinari, that team would suck.

LBJ's Cavs have the best record in the East, and there are not other All-Stars on his team this season, and he's doing better than teams that had two All-Star (TOR, MIA, ATL).

There's no question that Curry is BETTER than LBJ, but is he more valuable to his team?

Given that Curry is the only player currently playing with two other All-Stars, and has last year's Finals MVP as a teammate on top of that, I'd say that team is pretty deep. Just like Shaq and Kobe negated the absolute value of the other during their championship years, Curry's valued is decreased slightly by the fact he plays on an insanely stacked team.




I'd vote for Curry... yes, but I think there is a clear and convincing case for LBJ as MVP depending on how you define the term.

tredigs
03-05-2016, 12:08 AM
Ironic to see someone use the Derrick Rose argument for MVP FOR Lebron. Long story short, the easy response to that is that the Warriors are playing at legend-level, and would be nowhere near that with Mike Conley. They'd be an entirely different team, and one where the offense would suffer tremendously as a result. No Lebron on the Cavs? I'm willing to bet their two other All-Stars (maybe not this season, but that is fans/politics + situation, they are no worse as players) in their prime would figure out a way to make it work. The fact of the matter is that even with Lebron, they are playing at a FAR lower level than the Warriors, and LBJ's production is not anywhere close enough to Curry's to make it a valid argument.

If Lebron was leading the Cavs to a better record than the Warriors despite Curry outplaying him on an individual level? You'd at least have a leg to stand on (the Rose situation).

Bostonjorge
03-05-2016, 12:15 AM
If you take Curry off the Warriors, and put in another point guard, say Mike Conley, that would still be an AMAZING team.

You take LeBron James off the Cavs for the entire season and replace him with with Gallinari, that team would suck.

LBJ's Cavs have the best record in the East, and there are not other All-Stars on his team this season, and he's doing better than teams that had two All-Star (TOR, MIA, ATL).

There's no question that Curry is BETTER than LBJ, but is he more valuable to his team?

Given that Curry is the only player currently playing with two other All-Stars, and has last year's Finals MVP as a teammate on top of that, I'd say that team is pretty deep. Just like Shaq and Kobe negated the absolute value of the other during their championship years, Curry's valued is decreased slightly by the fact he plays on an insanely stacked team.




I'd vote for Curry... yes, but I think there is a clear and convincing case for LBJ as MVP depending on how you define the term.

Yes James is a big fish in little east pond. Curry is the biggest fish in the basketball ocean. You take James off the cavs and add a non all star in kover and that cavs team will still kill the east. Worst case 2nd seed. Now with or without James they lose to GS, San Antonio and OKC anyways.

You take Curry off the Warriors and best case they are 4th seed and maybe even 7th. With Curry they challenge every record any great team has and set new ones along the way. How is James making the Cavs the best east team more impactful or impressive then Curry making the Warriors a GOAT level team?

Scoots
03-05-2016, 02:53 AM
Curry is taking 9 shots a game inside the 3 line and shooting 57% on those shots. He's the 4th guard to ever do that. Penny Hardaway 6'7", Maurice Cheeks 6'1", and Magic 6'9".

Take it to them Mo!

Missing56&33
03-06-2016, 02:50 PM
I haven't seen anything like Steph Curry since Kobe, and MJ in their prime. I enjoy watching him play....I'd be surprised if he didn't win it unanimously. He got my vote.

JAZZNC
03-06-2016, 03:15 PM
I understand where tredigs its is coming from. Kawhi is NOT the MVP. I would view him getting a vote from some one as just a "congrats on leading your team to one of the best records in the history of basketball" thing. I know that may seem like a stupid reason to vote for Kawhi but I wouldn't be upset/surprised if somebody wanted to "reward" him with a vote. That said he if I had a vote I would have to vote for Curry. Curry is going to win in a landslide if it's unanimous or not so who really cares if somebody steals a vote or two?? I'm sure Steph doesn't.

TheNumber37
03-06-2016, 05:08 PM
He should be.

Best player on a 55-5 team. Changing the game with his shooting, ball handling and passing ability.

Lebron or Kwhai may take a couple votes, but that's just devil's advocate talk

Kush McDaniels
03-06-2016, 05:37 PM
The Spurs are also having a great season. Can someone make the argument that Kawhi's defensive impact for the Spurs has been nearly as important as Curry's offence for GSW? (Just playing devil's advocate.) Both are leading the league in defensive/offensive win shares respectively, and are #2 in Defensive/Offensive Rating - not to mention Kawhi is #3 in offensive rating. I would expect Kawhi to be the guy to steal some votes from Curry, if anyone does.

tredigs
03-06-2016, 11:31 PM
The Spurs are also having a great season. Can someone make the argument that Kawhi's defensive impact for the Spurs has been nearly as important as Curry's offence for GSW? (Just playing devil's advocate.) Both are leading the league in defensive/offensive win shares respectively, and are #2 in Defensive/Offensive Rating - not to mention Kawhi is #3 in offensive rating. I would expect Kawhi to be the guy to steal some votes from Curry, if anyone does.

I think i laid out the best case i've seen so far in here for a Kawhi contrarian vote. The Spurs need to hold their part of the bargain, but it's a likely scenario. The Warriors dumb beatdown by the LA Lakers tonight did not help his/their case.

Tony_Starks
03-07-2016, 10:47 AM
He won't get it unanimous ... but only because there is some guy out there who will vote a different way just to get the recognition.


Yeah that's how I feel. Some jerk will ruin it just to go against the grain. Maybe a Lebron Stan or something.

Steph definitely deserves a unanimous vote.

ewing
03-07-2016, 10:52 AM
He should be.

Best player on a 55-5 team. Changing the game with his shooting, ball handling and passing ability.

Lebron or Kwhai may take a couple votes, but that's just devil's advocate talk

He is not changing the game. He is just better at shooting then anyone who has ever played.

TRIUMPHATOR
03-07-2016, 11:43 AM
^ ??? He's not changing the game although he's the best shooter and ball handler ever? (Passes is up for debate)

If that's not changing the game what is?

ewing
03-07-2016, 12:55 PM
^ ??? He's not changing the game although he's the best shooter and ball handler ever? (Passes is up for debate)

If that's not changing the game what is?

I took it as meaning he is changing the way the game is played. He is certainly impacting the games he plays in a big time way but i don't think him or the Warriors are changing the way the game is played. They are just really good. Wilt changed the way the game was played- wider lanes, calling 3 second violations etc. I think Dirk was more of a revolutionary player the Curry. Mike D'antonio changed the way the game was played as coach. Curry is great but i don't think he is changing the game. Oh, and he not the best ball handler ever. that's just silly.

Chronz
03-07-2016, 02:21 PM
Does anyone remember who ruined the shaq and bron mvps? I think someone from Philly voted AI. Sas?

tredigs
03-07-2016, 03:01 PM
Does anyone remember who ruined the shaq and bron mvps? I think someone from Philly voted AI. Sas?

It was a Celtics beat writer I'm pretty sure, I remember reading an article he posted on his vote. Essentially it was the old, "Melo meant more to the Knicks than Lebron meant to the Heat" take.

Scoots
03-07-2016, 06:15 PM
Curry isn't changing the game, but he is putting in stark relief the changes that have been coming.