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View Full Version : All it takes to break a defense



Scoots
02-29-2016, 04:07 PM
It seems to me having 1 player on the floor who is genuinely awful on D breaks team defense down nearly completely.

The best defenses have 5 players doing their best at the defensive job they are best at, even when some of the players are not physically gifted to be elite defenders ... just just have to be trying hard and doing their job. There can be no pride on D as pride leads to stat hunting which means you are leaving your assignment which means the D is breaking down again.

Good D sometimes means you are going to look like you are getting scored on when it was the scheme to allow that shot.

Just like 1 really bad offensive player can mess up an offense 1 really bad defensive player is even more destructive to a team's defense.

I'm a Warriors fan, and an NBA fan. The Warriors couldn't play with Avid Lee and have their D work. Speights and Barbosa were bad defenders and couldn't get on the floor until they bought in on D. They'll never be good, but they are doing their assignments as well as they are able.

I've seen some truly horrendous defense from some players this year and it completely breaks down the team defense.

Slug3
02-29-2016, 04:22 PM
A good shot blocker in the middle can help cover up some bad wing D sometimes.

europagnpilgrim
02-29-2016, 05:28 PM
a coach who has a great team D scheme can cover up 1 player easily, just as a great offense can cover up on other side

to me dray green isn't a great on offense but the shooters and finishers around him cover that up and open him up tremendously

past others who people on here claim like a Pierce or The Answer weren't great defenders but played under Thibs and L Brown and the D was top notch for most part

Aldridge and Parker aren't great defenders but under Pop scheme they have top 2 defense in league, its about the scheme and personnel combo, im sure you can name a few players who fit your thought on this topic though

its about scheme then effort-buying in, offense is about play-shot makers for most part which Klay-Barnes-Curry cover that up triple fold, then the bench with Livingston-Iggy-Barbosa and dare I say even Speights(mid range shot maker)

mngopher35
02-29-2016, 05:43 PM
A good shot blocker in the middle can help cover up some bad wing D sometimes.

Yup. If you have a big man who is bad at defense it hurts more than a guard who doesn't play defense (anchors are huge importance and it's partially why so many bigs rank highly since they can have more impact on that end). Isiaah Thomas on Boston is bad defensively but they are in the top 5 drtg. Wade is bad defensively at this point but Miami is top 5 as well (not like Dragic is great either). Bucks going from Pachulia to Monroe however is a big reason their d dropped from 4 to 23 imo.

Edit: I wanna add that the poster above me is right as well and scheme/coaching can also help cover up one bad defender.

Scoots
02-29-2016, 06:11 PM
I don't even think scheme can really cover for 1 bad defender because good offense just automatically targets that bad defender over and over. Also having to use 4 guys to cover 5 means those 4 have longer distances to cover which means the time open for the offense is greater.

I don't think it's possible to have 1 zero on either side of the ball and have that unit be good overall.

Draymond Green is excellent at offense, he's not a very good scorer. Andrew Bogut is a bad scorer but he's still good on offense. Passing is part of offense.

Kush McDaniels
02-29-2016, 06:26 PM
did you intentionally say "Avid Lee" because he has no D?

R. Johnson#3
02-29-2016, 06:31 PM
I don't even think scheme can really cover for 1 bad defender because good offense just automatically targets that bad defender over and over. Also having to use 4 guys to cover 5 means those 4 have longer distances to cover which means the time open for the offense is greater.

I don't think it's possible to have 1 zero on either side of the ball and have that unit be good overall.

Thibs had one of the best defenses in the league year after year with Carlos Boozer on the floor.

IndyRealist
02-29-2016, 07:13 PM
Pacers have done a pretty good job covering Monta Ellis.

flea
02-29-2016, 07:20 PM
Teams can hide poor defensive and offensive players, depending on the talents of the rest of their team. By and large though, it's true that it's much harder to hide a poor offensive guard and a poor defensive big than anything else.

Hell half the starting centers in the NBA can't shoot or score any better than the worst guards in the game. Conversely, the best defensive guards are not very impactful on overall team defense. CP3 and Beverly are classic cases of this. To be an elite defense though you generally need either no weak links or a transcendent defensive player.

Scoots
02-29-2016, 07:48 PM
did you intentionally say "Avid Lee" because he has no D?

Hehe, yeah. It's childish but I just couldn't stop myself :)

Scoots
02-29-2016, 07:59 PM
Thibs had one of the best defenses in the league year after year with Carlos Boozer on the floor.

As much as I dislike Boozer his bad D wasn't so much a lack of effort but a lack of ability. He'd try to get in the way he was just slow and had bad technique too often. Also the Bulls were a good defensive team, but they did it in part by playing PAINFULLY slow which makes D easier overall.

But you are right in that the Bulls did have a stingy D and bad defenders. Not quite turnstiles but bad.

Chronz
03-01-2016, 03:39 PM
What would be the least talented team to be elite defensively? Is that even a coherent question.

xbrackattackx
03-01-2016, 03:47 PM
What would be the least talented team to be elite defensively? Is that even a coherent question.

I'm taking this questions as

"What teams lose games/have a losing record that are elite on D?"

Or

"Whats the least talented team offensively, that was elite Defensively
and also wins?"

Or

"What's the Least talented(at defense) elite defense ever?"

IndyRealist
03-01-2016, 04:16 PM
What would be the least talented team to be elite defensively? Is that even a coherent question.

I feel like everyone here thinks the Celtics are punching way out of their weight class. They're 4th defensively with players considered marginal role players or fringe starters (and 11th offensively). Does that answer the question?