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mrblisterdundee
02-24-2016, 01:02 AM
Apparently, members of the Warriors organization are split on whether to try and add Kevin Durant (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/report-warriors-internally-split-on-prospect-of-adding-durant-397217.html).


The Golden State Warriors are themselves frightened (if tantalized) by the possibility of adding impending free agent Kevin Durant, according to ESPN's Zach Lowe.
With recent reports suggesting the Warriors would have the inside track to nab Durant if he chooses not to re-sign with the Oklahoma City Thunder this summer, Lowe reports that "there is some division within the Warriors" about whether that would indeed be the best thing for the franchise.

I personally would not target Durant. There's example after example of too many stars gumming things up. I hope the Blazers can pry Harrison Barnes away. But if Golden State has the ability to sign Barnes long-term, that should be their first move.

IKnowHoops
02-24-2016, 01:22 AM
Apparently, members of the Warriors organization are split on whether to try and add Kevin Durant (http://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/report-warriors-internally-split-on-prospect-of-adding-durant-397217.html).


I personally would not target Durant. There's example after example of too many stars gumming things up. I hope the Blazers can pry Harrison Barnes away. But if Golden State has the ability to sign Barnes long-term, that should be their first move.

I hope it happens. If I'm a GM, I don't pass on the chance to add him.

GunFactor187
02-24-2016, 01:40 AM
Don't try to fix what's not broken as the cliche says.

Jeffy25
02-24-2016, 02:05 AM
What would adding him cost them? Barnes?

akesh99
02-24-2016, 02:12 AM
If they're able to retain Steph, Klay and Draymond then who cares who it costs them? If I'm the Dubs I'm all in for KD.

Chronz
02-24-2016, 02:13 AM
The hesitation on their part is fear of failure.

jerellh528
02-24-2016, 02:27 AM
I feel like durant is one of those rare players who can be added to literally any team and make them better. If you have the opputunity to add KD, you do it. We saw what happened last finals when curry wasn't at his best and klay wasn't hitting his shots, Cleveland was able to pull out a couple wins, with KD that's just another elite option the opposing team has to worry about destroying them. Gs probably wouldn't have the record they do now, but would be that much more dangerous to face in the playoffs

FOXHOUND
02-24-2016, 03:45 AM
You never EVER pick Harrison Barnes and a couple of role players in their 30's over a top 3 player in the NBA in his prime. This Warriors team already has an expiration date between Curry's insanely fortunate contract running out in two years and the afore mentioned Bogut, Livingston and Iguodala who are all in their 30's, who all also expire in two years.

They are already going to transition into a more traditional team over the next few years, with Barnes playing a bigger role if he's capable. Why wouldn't you do that with Durant instead, who next year will only be making like $7-8M more than Barnes anyways? It would completely change the dynamic, but they would be much better over the next 5 years overall.

EDIT: They currently only have Thompson, Green and Looney on the books for 2018. So, even if Durant did go there on a 1+1 deal to reup at a 35% max, they would still be able to keep that core four by simply renouncing the rights on Bogut/Livingston and maybe even Iguodala. Curry's cap hold is only going to be $16M, which with a cap of a projected $110M is once again insanely beneficial.

Being that those players will be in their mid 30's by then I see them doing that anyways because after that offseason they'll never have cap space again. Better to spread that wealth to fill out the roster than blow it on declining players. Or, in this case, keep Kevin Durant and built a team around that ridiculous four instead of a Harrison Barnes who will be making $20M.

nastynice
02-24-2016, 04:01 AM
Depends on what we have to give up. Losing Bogut AND Livingston would be a MAJOR blow, I think both those guys are insanely underrated as far as what they do for this team. If it costs Barnes and Iggy, I'd be all for it

KnicksorBust
02-24-2016, 09:00 AM
It would make them worse defensively.
Hurt their depth.
Take the ball out of Steph's hands.
Force them to change their offense.

No split necessary. Pass on Durant.

MonroeFAN
02-24-2016, 09:05 AM
I don't sign him and the idea that they are basically having this discussion/struggle with themselves is super arrogant.

The chances of them signing him likely aren't even good.

likemystylez
02-24-2016, 10:06 AM
Don't try to fix what's not broken as the cliche says.

thats like telling a great nba player never to work on his game in the offseason. The great players and the great teams are always looking for ways to get better.

likemystylez
02-24-2016, 10:08 AM
I don't sign him and the idea that they are basically having this discussion/struggle with themselves is super arrogant.

The chances of them signing him likely aren't even good.

I havent heard any soundbites or seen any actual quotes from anybody in the warriors front office regarding kevin durant one way or the other. So before assuming they are arrogant- the writer of this story might just be making stuff up (knowing the warriors cant really refute anything)

SteBO
02-24-2016, 10:15 AM
I understand the split....one of the reasons is as Chronz says, a fear of failure compared to expectations (see how close the HEAT were to failing miserably; they won two championships, and one of them you can thank Ray Allen for). The other one is the fact that they're on pace to win roughly 70+ games and have guys on pretty good deals (Curry's being the cream of the crop). If I'm GS, why break it up? And say they do go out of their way to get KD, do you guys understand what KD is gonna go through? Should be the same thing LBJ went through coming to MIA if you're at all interested in consistency. In fact, I'd argue this scenario is worse considering the Warriors are a ready-made champion as it is.

All of that being said, if I had a chance to run the league for roughly the next decade, I take it.

Stinkyoutsider
02-24-2016, 10:26 AM
Chemistry is important here so I would have a small amount of doubt for going after Durant. The team is on a historic run this year and if they don't struggle to win the title this year, I think I would be leaning a little more towards seeing if Durant would take less than the max to come to the Warriors. If not, then look to further cement the team's depth instead.

I'm wondering if Durant would change his style of play to suit the Warriors as well. We all know Durant is a dominant player but he would have to change a little. I think he's used to isolating and going at his guy one one one and we all know how well the Warriors move the ball.

likemystylez
02-24-2016, 10:27 AM
I understand the split....one of the reasons is as Chronz says, a fear of failure compared to expectations (see how close the HEAT were to failing miserably; they won two championships, and one of them you can thank Ray Allen for). The other one is the fact that they're on pace to win roughly 70+ games and have guys on pretty good deals (Curry's being the cream of the crop). If I'm GS, why break it up? And say they do go out of their way to get KD, do you guys understand what KD is gonna go through? Should be the same thing LBJ went through coming to MIA if you're at all interested in consistency. In fact, I'd argue this scenario is worse considering the Warriors are a ready-made champion as it is.

All of that being said, if I had a chance to run the league for roughly the next decade, I take it.

If durant just talks to both sides behind closed doors and says he wants to go to the warriors, I dont think it will be nearly as bad as the lebron james decision saga where he emberessed the cavs and his home town on national TV. (LOL_ btw... the cavs didnt hesitate to bring him back after that- so they must not have hated him too much for it)

Another thing to note- OKC has already shown that they are willing to throw away superstar players who want to be there and get pennies on the dollar (IE James harden)- so whys it such a big deal when they lose another one for a different reason)

Aleksandar
02-24-2016, 10:31 AM
What split? They are crazy if they don't want to sign Durant. If they pass on a chance to sign Durant(meaning they give up on some of their players, and Durant doesn't sign with them) it's another story.

They are going to have to overpay Barnes anyway, so passing on Durant would be insane.

likemystylez
02-24-2016, 10:31 AM
Chemistry is important here so I would have a small amount of doubt for going after Durant. The team is on a historic run this year and if they don't struggle to win the title this year, I think I would be leaning a little more towards seeing if Durant would take less than the max to come to the Warriors. If not, then look to further cement the team's depth instead.

I'm wondering if Durant would change his style of play to suit the Warriors as well. We all know Durant is a dominant player but he would have to change a little. I think he's used to isolating and going at his guy one one one and we all know how well the Warriors move the ball.

he has never played in a system like the warriors and with players as capable and willing to move the ball and generate good shots for the team. He might not score 30 points a night every night- but he will get so many good looks that id expect his efficiency to go way up.

Im not worried about durant desiring to isolate (as oppose to getting clean easy looks all night)- I might be concerned if it were westbrook

valade16
02-24-2016, 10:36 AM
I understand why they would be hesitant because they are doing so well now and there might be a fear of disrupting that success, but to have 4 players the caliber of Curry, KD, Green and Klay all 28 years old or young is literally unprecedented.

It's funny when I hear the critique of it would make their defense worse or would KD be able to co-exist in the Warriors offense because those were the same things everyone said about LMA going to the Spurs. Not only did those fears not come to fruition, but the Spurs got better on offense and defense and are nearly as good as the Warriors.

And LMA is not nearly the player Durant is. They are going to win multiple titles either way, but adding Durant is the right move here.

likemystylez
02-24-2016, 10:36 AM
What split? They are crazy if they don't want to sign Durant. If they pass on a chance to sign Durant(meaning they give up on some of their players, and Durant doesn't sign with them) it's another story.

They are going to have to overpay Barnes anyway, so passing on Durant would be insane.

that kinda says it all

Scoots
02-24-2016, 11:01 AM
I don't sign him and the idea that they are basically having this discussion/struggle with themselves is super arrogant.

The chances of them signing him likely aren't even good.

I don't see why it's arrogant. I assume every NBA front office is analyzing every player in the NBA, college, and internationally for fit and availability at all times. That's what a good front office does.

MonroeFAN
02-24-2016, 11:04 AM
This is taking it a step beyond analyzing I think. It's as if they already signed him.

If this is just reporting then my apologies, it's not their FO's fault.

Scoots
02-24-2016, 11:21 AM
This is taking it a step beyond analyzing I think. It's as if they already signed him.

If this is just reporting then my apologies, it's not their FO's fault.

The rules are very clear and very harsh for any front office person saying a players name and speculating about their future employment on the record ... so I think it's safe to say it was Lowe doing some digging and putting together a piece he knew would get some traction.

I imagine similar conversations are happening about Dwight Howard this season ... do we want him, how much will he demand, what will he do to our team concepts ... common conversations all over the league, they just don't usually get bits and pieces leaked.

mrblisterdundee
02-24-2016, 12:40 PM
If durant just talks to both sides behind closed doors and says he wants to go to the warriors, I dont think it will be nearly as bad as the lebron james decision saga where he emberessed the cavs and his home town on national TV. (LOL_ btw... the cavs didnt hesitate to bring him back after that- so they must not have hated him too much for it)

Another thing to note- OKC has already shown that they are willing to throw away superstar players who want to be there and get pennies on the dollar (IE James harden)- so whys it such a big deal when they lose another one for a different reason)

Even the Thunder's front office isn't dumb enough to think Durant is expendable. That said, I think their other mistakes might have convinced Durant that he isn't winning anything with that group.
I personally hope the Oklahoma City Thunder implode, and the ownership group sells to some tech billionaire(s) who relocate the team back to Seattle.

KnicksorBust
02-24-2016, 12:55 PM
I understand why they would be hesitant because they are doing so well now and there might be a fear of disrupting that success, but to have 4 players the caliber of Curry, KD, Green and Klay all 28 years old or young is literally unprecedented.

It's funny when I hear the critique of it would make their defense worse or would KD be able to co-exist in the Warriors offense because those were the same things everyone said about LMA going to the Spurs. Not only did those fears not come to fruition, but the Spurs got better on offense and defense and are nearly as good as the Warriors.

And LMA is not nearly the player Durant is. They are going to win multiple titles either way, but adding Durant is the right move here.

Lame comparison. Duncan/Parker/Ginobili are at the ends of their careers. Duncan especially barely gets to 10 points and had a 0 point game this season. The Spurs desperately needed talented offensive big man for the future. His fit is a lot smoother. Everyone knows Durant is probably the best iso scorer in the NBA. The idea that you can seamlessly merge him on the Warriors makes no sense.

Plus the LMA experiment won't be proven a success until we see how it plays out in the post-season.

FOXHOUND
02-24-2016, 01:13 PM
Lame comparison. Duncan/Parker/Ginobili are at the ends of their careers. Duncan especially barely gets to 10 points and had a 0 point game this season. The Spurs desperately needed talented offensive big man for the future. His fit is a lot smoother. Everyone knows Durant is probably the best iso scorer in the NBA. The idea that you can seamlessly merge him on the Warriors makes no sense.

Plus the LMA experiment won't be proven a success until we see how it plays out in the post-season.

They would have to make some changes, but Durant would fit into the Warriors style just fine. He has an eFG% of 60.8% on catch and shoot which account for 25.1% of his FGA, 65.3% when he takes 0 dribbles which accounts for 37.4% of his FGA (by far highest of his dribble splits) and 61.9% when he shoots the ball in under 2 seconds from getting it which accounts for 48.3% of his FGA (by far highest of his ball time splits).

Is Durant a great ISO scorer who ISO's a lot? Absolutely, but he's an amazing scorer in every way. He would have zero issue fitting into a great offensive system like that. Meshing with Curry? He already plays with Westbrook, who is as ball dominant and a high volume shooter as anyone in the NBA. Running around, spotting up, passing, etc? All thing he already does at a high level. Playing high effort D? Again, no issue.

The trick is mixing up the rotation and roles. Durant wouldn't fill Barnes role, he would fill Thompson role. Imagine the same offense they have now, only a 6'11 Durant in the place of Thompson, and as a result of being a far better player him being more involved. I think what would happen is a role reversal with Thompson and Iguodala, with Iguodala filling the Barnes role in the starting 5 and Thompson becoming a ridiculous 6th man playing 30-32 MPG just like he does now. Green's usage would also go down, which is only good because he isn't a 3rd of the offensive player Durant is.

With Curry-Thompson-Durant-Green, you keep 2-3 of them on the court at all times and late in games all 4. Right now teams get a breather and a bit of chance to come back when Curry is out. Imagine a world where it's the 2nd/3rd quarter and Curry is coming out for Kevin freaking Durant, and vice versa lol. Nobody would be able to compete with them.

Scoots
02-24-2016, 01:21 PM
Plus the LMA experiment won't be proven a success until we see how it plays out in the post-season.

And next year when Duncan and Ginobli retire.

Sly Guy
02-24-2016, 01:26 PM
they'll try. And they should, cuz on paper it's the right thing to do without question. But I wouldn't. I love KD, and I love watching the dubs play, but there's only so much ball to go around, and you aren't maximizing KD and the investment you'll be making giving him a huge contract when steph, klay and co all need their shots too.

2-ONE-5
02-24-2016, 01:40 PM
they dont need him. they sell out every game, they are must watch TV, have a ring and possibly a 2nd coming this year, and ahead of the pace to set the wins record. How can they be any better with KD? Would be lame if it happened and be awful for the league.

valade16
02-24-2016, 01:51 PM
they dont need him. they sell out every game, they are must watch TV, have a ring and possibly a 2nd coming this year, and ahead of the pace to set the wins record. How can they be any better with KD? Would be lame if it happened and be awful for the league.

I really hope they don't get KD for this very reason. The Warriors are extremely good now, but them adding KD would be shut the league down because they're about to run it for the next 5-10 years good.

It'd be like the 90's Bulls. It'd be like the 80's Lakers with no 80's Celtics to challenge them.

likemystylez
02-24-2016, 01:51 PM
they dont need him. they sell out every game, they are must watch TV, have a ring and possibly a 2nd coming this year, and ahead of the pace to set the wins record. How can they be any better with KD? Would be lame if it happened and be awful for the league.

They have 5 losses (5 failures). Atleast 2 of those came as a result of sitting key players and not having the superstar depth to get wins when key players are sitting.

There is definitely room to improve.

Until a team goes 82-0 and never trails in a game- it is always possible to get better, and I for one applaud a team that strives to get better whenever possible and doesn't settle.

Hawkeye15
02-24-2016, 01:55 PM
I feel like durant is one of those rare players who can be added to literally any team and make them better. If you have the opputunity to add KD, you do it. We saw what happened last finals when curry wasn't at his best and klay wasn't hitting his shots, Cleveland was able to pull out a couple wins, with KD that's just another elite option the opposing team has to worry about destroying them. Gs probably wouldn't have the record they do now, but would be that much more dangerous to face in the playoffs

much of that was due to GS being a newbie to success imo. I think now that they have one out of the way, they will be a different team.

ewing
02-24-2016, 01:56 PM
and i for one welcome our new insect overlords

likemystylez
02-24-2016, 01:56 PM
I really hope they don't get KD for this very reason. The Warriors are extremely good now, but them adding KD would be shut the league down because they're about to run it for the next 5-10 years good.

It'd be like the 90's Bulls. It'd be like the 80's Lakers with no 80's Celtics to challenge them.


wait the 90s bulls were bad for the league?

We would get the chance to watch one of the most dominant reigns in the history of pro sports. I think it would be great for the NBA. LOL- Ironically... even if the warriors won 70+ games for 5 straight yrs.... espn would be questioning if they were for real.

MonroeFAN
02-24-2016, 02:12 PM
They have 5 losses (5 failures). Atleast 2 of those came as a result of sitting key players and not having the superstar depth to get wins when key players are sitting.

There is definitely room to improve.

Until a team goes 82-0 and never trails in a game- it is always possible to get better, and I for one applaud a team that strives to get better whenever possible and doesn't settle.

No team is ever going 82-0. You're replacing two or more rotation pieces of one (if not the) best team in the history of the NBA to add a player who is just going to take the ball out of the hands of a better player. Why would even want to risk it?

valade16
02-24-2016, 02:14 PM
wait the 90s bulls were bad for the league?

We would get the chance to watch one of the most dominant reigns in the history of pro sports. I think it would be great for the NBA. LOL- Ironically... even if the warriors won 70+ games for 5 straight yrs.... espn would be questioning if they were for real.

I didn't say bad I said shut down the league, and they would. It would probably be good for the NBA but terrible for fans of every other team but Golden State's.

likemystylez
02-24-2016, 02:16 PM
I didn't say bad I said shut down the league, and they would. It would probably be good for the NBA but terrible for fans of every other team but Golden State's.

ahhhh- well nobody was concerned when golden state was the joke of the league for 20 yrs and every team had a free game against them... they can deal with team on the schedule that's likely to be a loss

Scoots
02-24-2016, 02:18 PM
No team is ever going 82-0. You're replacing two or more rotation pieces of one (if not the) best team in the history of the NBA to add a player who is just going to take the ball out of the hands of a better player. Why would even want to risk it?

That's just Stylez saying he's never going to be happy being a fan of one of the greatest teams ever. Even if they went 98-0 on the season he'd complain about something.

likemystylez
02-24-2016, 02:19 PM
No team is ever going 82-0. You're replacing two or more rotation pieces of one (if not the) best team in the history of the NBA to add a player who is just going to take the ball out of the hands of a better player. Why would even want to risk it?

pretty much the same reason every team in the league is willing too... its Kevin Durant.

Warriors offense isn't about certain players taking over and creating their own shot. warriors move the ball and get as many good shots as they can in a game. no egos on the warriors. Durant might not score 30 a game but hed be favored to win a championship every yr for the rest of his prime.

tredigs
02-24-2016, 02:34 PM
pretty much the same reason every team in the league is willing too... its Kevin Durant.

Warriors offense isn't about certain players taking over and creating their own shot. warriors move the ball and get as many good shots as they can in a game. no egos on the warriors. Durant might not score 30 a game but hed be favored to win a championship every yr for the rest of his prime.

I think they sacrifice because they all went through the process together and because the veteran Iguodala was willing to take a "back-seat" role in order to help shore up the bench issues.

Kevin Durant is not Andre Iguodala. And bringing him in could cause massive ruffling of the feathers for guys like Draymond and especially Klay (who would be moved down to distant 3rd option, despite likely thinking he's first option worthy already). If they were to win this season, that could and likely would only make that worse. I feel like while on the surface they're bright enough to understand that this is a business, they would question why they needed to lose core pieces for a historically great team (with frankly historically great chemistry) in order to bring in another star. If they were to start in a rut and we had some situation where some shade was cast by a guy like Klay or Draymond (who will 100% no longer be seeing their normal usage) at management and/or KD, you'd have mass media immediately questioning the decision and that's where we'd have to see how strong this new teams fortitude was (and rest assure, it is a new team at this point). A future situation of Klay demanding a trade at some point would not entirely shock me if this went down.

This is not as simple as "see star, get star". It may end up being the right decision (if this is even something KD is even interested in... which, who the hell knows), but the Warriors are in a unique situation where they need to be smart about how big of a shakeup they want to make to this team.

For what it's worth, I'm all for losing Barnes (not worth his next price tag) AND not adding Durant, but I would definitely want them to try to swing a proper 3/D SF in Barnes' stead.

All in all, I'll trust Bob Meyers and co here. They 100% know what they are doing.

2-ONE-5
02-24-2016, 02:41 PM
They have 5 losses (5 failures). Atleast 2 of those came as a result of sitting key players and not having the superstar depth to get wins when key players are sitting.

There is definitely room to improve.

Until a team goes 82-0 and never trails in a game- it is always possible to get better, and I for one applaud a team that strives to get better whenever possible and doesn't settle.

thats a bit extreme dont you think?

Hawkeye15
02-24-2016, 02:54 PM
I think they sacrifice because they all went through the process together and because the veteran Iguodala was willing to take a "back-seat" role in order to help shore up the bench issues.

Kevin Durant is not Andre Iguodala. And bringing him in could cause massive ruffling of the feathers for guys like Draymond and especially Klay (who would be moved down to distant 3rd option, despite likely thinking he's first option worthy already). If they were to win this season, that could and likely would only make that worse. I feel like while on the surface they're bright enough to understand that this is a business, they would question why they needed to lose core pieces for a historically great team (with frankly historically great chemistry) in order to bring in another star. If they were to start in a rut and we had some situation where some shade was cast by a guy like Klay or Draymond (who will 100% no longer be seeing their normal usage) at management and/or KD, you'd have mass media immediately questioning the decision and that's where we'd have to see how strong this new teams fortitude was (and rest assure, it is a new team at this point). A future situation of Klay demanding a trade at some point would not entirely shock me if this went down.

This is not as simple as "see star, get star". It may end up being the right decision (if this is even something KD is even interested in... which, who the hell knows), but the Warriors are in a unique situation where they need to be smart about how big of a shakeup they want to make to this team.

For what it's worth, I'm all for losing Barnes (not worth his next price tag) AND not adding Durant, but I would definitely want them to try to swing a proper 3/D SF in Barnes' stead.

All in all, I'll trust Bob Meyers and co here. They 100% know what they are doing.

I really want my Wolves to pluck Barnes away in FA. He would fit what they need at SF

Tony_Starks
02-24-2016, 03:24 PM
It's a pretty huge assumption to say KD would even want to play for the Warriors.

Nothing we have seen from him indicates that he would join a rival peer to ring chase. He wants to beat Steph, not tag along.

Plus it seems like him and Russ may end up reuniting in the next destination and Russ for SURE is not with the super team.

likemystylez
02-24-2016, 03:26 PM
thats a bit extreme dont you think?

not at all- I don't expect any team to go 82-0, my point was just that it is possible to improve even if you are already historically great.

2-ONE-5
02-24-2016, 03:31 PM
no thats extreme. losing 9-10 games and winning back to back titles doesnt leave room for much improvement. No guarantee the record improves with KD and its doubtful KD is even interested.

LOb0
02-24-2016, 03:33 PM
not at all- I don't expect any team to go 82-0, my point was just that it is possible to improve even if you are already historically great.

You could also get worse..

likemystylez
02-24-2016, 03:36 PM
It's a pretty huge assumption to say KD would even want to play for the Warriors.

Nothing we have seen from him indicates that he would join a rival peer to ring chase. He wants to beat Steph, not tag along.

Plus it seems like him and Russ may end up reuniting in the next destination and Russ for SURE is not with the super team.

its definitely an assumption, but it isn't baseless. supposedly kevin Durant has indicated that he wants to win a championship. going to the warriors looks like the best chance of that (not saying its impossible anywhere else)

The one thing I think is worth noting is this though. In the fall- Stephen A smith came out with a report that Durant was strongly considering the lakers and Stephen a smith talked to people close to Durant about his desire to play for the lakers.

Durant came out and immediately said that was not true and SAS and his un named BS source didn't hear Durant say any of that, because Durant had no desire to play for the lakers.......that proves kevin Durant is perfectly willing to shut down rumors if they are BS.

Durant has not disputed this rumor at all, and its pretty loud over the last month. That doesn't mean that the warriors are necessarily his first choice right now- but he is not against it or he would shut the rumor down as fast as possible.


to be fair though... woj didn't say Durant said he wanted to go to the warriors, his article was why Durant to the warriors is a good fit for Durant in his career now and how it isn't as crazy as it sounds. its possible.

likemystylez
02-24-2016, 03:37 PM
You could also get worse..

its possible that any team could get worse with the addition of Durant. nobody knows for sure how something will work. That isn't going to stop 10-15 teams for having a strong desire to sign him this summer.

likemystylez
02-24-2016, 03:39 PM
no thats extreme. losing 9-10 games and winning back to back titles doesnt leave room for much improvement. No guarantee the record improves with KD and its doubtful KD is even interested.

he has not shut it down, and if he isn't- that's fine warriors are good either way. LOl Durant coming to the warriors is more doing him a favor than it is him doing the warriors a favor

Tony_Starks
02-24-2016, 03:50 PM
its definitely an assumption, but it isn't baseless. supposedly kevin Durant has indicated that he wants to win a championship. going to the warriors looks like the best chance of that (not saying its impossible anywhere else)

The one thing I think is worth noting is this though. In the fall- Stephen A smith came out with a report that Durant was strongly considering the lakers and Stephen a smith talked to people close to Durant about his desire to play for the lakers.

Durant came out and immediately said that was not true and SAS and his un named BS source didn't hear Durant say any of that, because Durant had no desire to play for the lakers.......that proves kevin Durant is perfectly willing to shut down rumors if they are BS.

Durant has not disputed this rumor at all, and its pretty loud over the last month. That doesn't mean that the warriors are necessarily his first choice right now- but he is not against it or he would shut the rumor down as fast as possible.


to be fair though... woj didn't say Durant said he wanted to go to the warriors, his article was why Durant to the warriors is a good fit for Durant in his career now and how it isn't as crazy as it sounds. its possible.

Well technically he didn't address the Lakers specifically, his main gripe was "I never talked to SAS, nobody in my camp talked to SAS....blah blah...

So his gripe was more with someone acting like they have inside info when they don't, but he didn't shoot down the team.

Sense then he has softened his stance and not been so abrasive when New York or Washington were brought up, for example. He was just ambiguous but complementary.

I would say the Lakers are in play, depending on what the young bucks show for the remainder of the season.

For what it's worth after the Thunder blew us out and we were more competitive the next time, KD did small talk with B Scott on camera saying "you guys have been playing a lot better lately."

So read what you will into that but I took it as he is at the least paying attention.

Regardless of the Lakers chances I see Golden State as a super long shot for them chemistry wise and him competition wise....

2-ONE-5
02-24-2016, 03:57 PM
he has not shut it down, and if he isn't- that's fine warriors are good either way. LOl Durant coming to the warriors is more doing him a favor than it is him doing the warriors a favor

the rumor isnt KD wanting to sign with GS its about GS making a run at him. What is KD supposed to say to that?

likemystylez
02-24-2016, 04:02 PM
Well technically he didn't address the Lakers specifically, his main gripe was "I never talked to SAS, nobody in my camp talked to SAS....blah blah...

So his gripe was more with someone acting like they have inside info when they don't, but he didn't shoot down the team.

Sense then he has softened his stance and not been so abrasive when New York or Washington were brought up, for example. He was just ambiguous but complementary.

I would say the Lakers are in play, depending on what the young bucks show for the remainder of the season.

For what it's worth after the Thunder blew us out and we were more competitive the next time, KD did small talk with B Scott on camera saying "you guys have been playing a lot better lately."

So read what you will into that but I took it as he is at the least paying attention.

Regardless of the Lakers chances I see Golden State as a super long shot for them chemistry wise and him competition wise....

LOL if he signs with the lakers it will basically be adding credibility to the same thing he so strongly contested earlier. ALso lakers haven't done anything to improve their image from when he rejected it earlier. Infact it kinda looks like theyre tanking. and that's exactly what Durant does not want to get involved with.

LOl so he chooses between a team trying to be the best team ever in the warriors and a team trying to lose as much as possible to get a high draft pick..... hmmmm if he wants to win rings- warriors look like the choice.

Passing on the warriors to go sign with the lakers looks like a decision that could haunt him for the rest of his life and take any chance away from winning rings for the rest of his career.

likemystylez
02-24-2016, 04:04 PM
the rumor isnt KD wanting to sign with GS its about GS making a run at him. What is KD supposed to say to that?

I thought the rumor was about the warriors being significant front runners to land him?

kobe4thewinbang
02-24-2016, 04:08 PM
Seconding "if it's not broke don't fix it." Plus, Durant needs a lot of touches to function properly. Depending on Curry to give up the ball for 3's (I don't really think KD should limit his still developing game to long balls) is the plight of Kevin Love. Plus, egos have to exist somewhere and this is Curry's team. Yes, Curry has off nights shooting the ball and so does Klay but Durant would likely mess up chemistry and his defense is not the best so why pay him a huge amount of money to be underused and possibly add too many cooks in the kitchen.

likemystylez
02-24-2016, 04:10 PM
Seconding "if it's not broke don't fix it." Plus, Durant needs a lot of touches to function properly. Depending on Curry to give up the ball for 3's (I don't really think KD should limit his still developing game to long balls) is the plight of Kevin Love. Plus, egos have to exist somewhere and this is Curry's team.

if Durant considers the warriors hed have to check his ego at the door in an interest to win championships. if he wants to keep shooting 25 times a night he can join the tankfest over at the lakers and be a lotto team for the next 5 yrs

kobe4thewinbang
02-24-2016, 04:13 PM
if Durant considers the warriors hed have to check his ego at the door in an interest to win championships. if he wants to keep shooting 25 times a night he can join the tankfest over at the lakers and be a lotto team for the next 5 yrsYeah, but like I added to my post, if you limit Durant to less than 25 shots a game, is he really being used to the best of his talents? And I don't think any team with Durant is a lottery team. He may not quite be LeBron but he's not quite Kobe either. I think he could get a poor team into the playoffs by himself, and with the Lakers as example he'd have some help (Russell, Randle, Clarkson).

nycericanguy
02-24-2016, 04:14 PM
The fact that this is even a discussion shows how ridiculous the league has gotten. Guys just want everything given to them as easy as possible.

likemystylez
02-24-2016, 04:15 PM
Yeah, but like I added to my post, if you limit Durant to less than 25 shots a game, is he really being used to the best of his talents? And I don't think any team with Durant is a lottery team. He may not quite be LeBron but he's not quite Kobe either. I think he could get a poor team into the playoffs by himself, and with the Lakers as example he'd have some help (Russell, Randle, Clarkson).

Durant would get more open looks with the warriors than he ever had in his career.


how would joining the lakers improve his chances of winning a ring next yr? from everything im hearing- he does not want to join a 4 or 5 yr plan- he wants to go somewhere where he could compete for a ring immediately. randle and Clarkson are not gonna be competing for a ring next yr

kobe4thewinbang
02-24-2016, 04:15 PM
The fact that this is even a discussion shows how ridiculous the league has gotten. Guys just want everything given to them as easy as possible.See James, LeBron (Miami Heat).

likemystylez
02-24-2016, 04:17 PM
The fact that this is even a discussion shows how ridiculous the league has gotten. Guys just want everything given to them as easy as possible.

wtf- hes killed himself for 9 yrs with okc? while they are throwing away superstars to save a dime rather than try to build a contender.


pffft as easy as possible????

kobe4thewinbang
02-24-2016, 04:18 PM
wtf- hes killed himself for 9 yrs with okc? while they are throwing away superstars to save a dime rather than try to build a contender.


pffft as easy as possible????The Warriors with Durant are not a "contender"; they're a 99% lock to win the title.

phantasyyy
02-24-2016, 04:23 PM
if Durant considers the warriors hed have to check his ego at the door in an interest to win championships. if he wants to keep shooting 25 times a night he can join the tankfest over at the lakers and be a lotto team for the next 5 yrs

Or he can just stay with OKC.. lol I mean its not a given hes leaving that franchise yet, and WB is still the best talent avaiable out there for him to play with.

On topic though its going to take a whole lot of things to go right for the stars to align with KD joining the Warriors. As others have stated its going to come at a cost of gutting their rotational players as well as disrupting possibly the best team chemistry besides maybe SA. At the very minimum Barnes + Livingston and/or /Ezeli will have to go. Then the following year Iggy/Bogut will have to take some discounts from the 11m they're being paid now to fit in the salary cap - especially with Green/Thompson on max/near maxes, KD on his newly minted super max, and Curry signing his new super max. Thats essentially 4 max contracts with pretty much crumbs to fill out the rest of the roster.

Not to mention adding KD bumps every1s offensive pecking order down a peg or two.
Curra/Durant 1a/b
Thompson 3
Green 4
Whoever else 5.
While also losing the Green's ability to handle the ball and make plays with Durant needing touches as well.

The only realistic scenario I see the Warriors adding KD in the offseason is say for example the get upset in the 1st/2nd round by a huge margin. Otherwise why breakup the quartet core of Curry/Thompson/Barnes/Green while all them are entering/are in their respective primes. Just shuffle the deck with complimentary players when Iggy/Bogut get older...

kobe4thewinbang
02-24-2016, 04:24 PM
Durant would get more open looks with the warriors than he ever had in his career.


how would joining the lakers improve his chances of winning a ring next yr? from everything im hearing- he does not want to join a 4 or 5 yr plan- he wants to go somewhere where he could compete for a ring immediately. randle and Clarkson are not gonna be competing for a ring next yrIs there a stat that can show if Durant is better on catch-and-shoot rather than isolation shots? He had that one 3 off a pass from Westbrook and missed it in the game that eliminated OKC versus the Spurs. I think he's better with the ball in his hands prior to a shot, but again, a stat would help.

phantasyyy
02-24-2016, 04:26 PM
I really want my Wolves to pluck Barnes away in FA. He would fit what they need at SF

Dont get to watch much Wolves games but i always wondered why Lavine doesnt start at the 2, and Wiggins the 3 for you guys? With a Rubio/Lavine/Wiggins/Deng/Towns lineup or something of that nature.

I mean they both have the size to handle the respective SG and SF positions. Also with Wiggins wouldnt he better suited for the SF position with his bigger size, defensive chops, and inability to stretch the floor on a consistent basis?

Scoots
02-24-2016, 04:27 PM
no thats extreme. losing 9-10 games and winning back to back titles doesnt leave room for much improvement. No guarantee the record improves with KD and its doubtful KD is even interested.

Stylez is the least happy Warriors fan. He prefers to complain about everything.

Tony_Starks
02-24-2016, 04:43 PM
The fact that this is even a discussion shows how ridiculous the league has gotten. Guys just want everything given to them as easy as possible.


As far as KD is concerned it's not a discussion, this is all media speculation just like they had Lebron going to New York for like 3 years. Lol

Not really fair to put him in the "can't beat em join em" category just yet.

shep33
02-24-2016, 05:27 PM
People need to go back and forgive Bron then lol. If KD jumps ship to the Dubs, that looks way worse than Bron going to Miami.

Scoots
02-24-2016, 05:37 PM
People need to go back and forgive Bron then lol. If KD jumps ship to the Dubs, that looks way worse than Bron going to Miami.

KD to Warriors is not the same ... Miami got Wade, Bosh, and LeBron all to sign below market in the same offseason to take an average team to go for a title. The Warriors would be simply adding 1 free agent, probably at close to market value to continue winning.

I still think KDs most likely landing spot is OKC.

SteBO
02-24-2016, 05:38 PM
People need to go back and forgive Bron then lol. If KD jumps ship to the Dubs, that looks way worse than Bron going to Miami.
They'll never do it. 1)Miami's hated as a sports town, 2)most people love the Warriors, and 3)most people like Durant as a personality and actually buy this humble act he puts on from time to time. Sad, but the truth.

likemystylez
02-24-2016, 05:46 PM
Is there a stat that can show if Durant is better on catch-and-shoot rather than isolation shots? He had that one 3 off a pass from Westbrook and missed it in the game that eliminated OKC versus the Spurs. I think he's better with the ball in his hands prior to a shot, but again, a stat would help.

A stat to see if a player is better at shooting while covered vs while open? I kinda assumed that was common sense. its like wondering if a player prefers winning or losing if he has a choice.

but lets base it on one missed open shot LOL

Bostonjorge
02-24-2016, 05:50 PM
Durant would fit perfect. Already plays a lot off the ball In OKC. Will have a team that can spread the floor and curry who is great passer out of the double team will give Durant one on one matchups Durant would be the MVP easily and warriors go back to back.

Bostonjorge
02-24-2016, 05:55 PM
Only con I can think of is Barnes ability to play the 4 and be really effective.

Scoots
02-24-2016, 06:07 PM
A stat to see if a player is better at shooting while covered vs while open? I kinda assumed that was common sense. its like wondering if a player prefers winning or losing if he has a choice.

but lets base it on one missed open shot LOL

I think he's talking about catch and shoot vs dribbling into a shot ... both accuracy and frequency. Those numbers are available.

likemystylez
02-24-2016, 06:17 PM
I think he's talking about catch and shoot vs dribbling into a shot ... both accuracy and frequency. Those numbers are available.

well he referenced one missed open shot as proof that he might prefer to be covered (IE play isolation). I cant think of a player who would prefer to get less open looks

TrueFan420
02-24-2016, 06:29 PM
People need to go back and forgive Bron then lol. If KD jumps ship to the Dubs, that looks way worse than Bron going to Miami.

Situations are a little different. They wouldn't all be teaming up to take a mid level team greatness. It would be KD joining a contender. He'd also play second fiddle to Curry. Also I assume if this were to happen they wouldn't turn it into an hour special where they promise not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6 championships. Basically implying they're planning on being better than Jordan/the Bulls whom many consider the best team ever in the modernish era.

Hawkeye15
02-24-2016, 06:29 PM
See James, LeBron (Miami Heat).

I think Durant leaving Westbrook, and Ibaka, is a bit more ridiculous than leaving Mo Williams and Big Z on one leg

TrueFan420
02-24-2016, 06:33 PM
I think Durant leaving Westbrook, and Ibaka, is a bit more ridiculous than leaving Mo Williams and Big Z on one leg

I don't think James got hate for leaving. It was widely recognized that the Cavs were poorly constructed. I think it was more about how he did it. That one hour special was a joke. I don't care what he stated after the fact about how he was going to donate the money earned. He's stupid rich if he cared that much he could just donate the money and not make a spectacle, all eyes on me, out of his free agency.

Hawkeye15
02-24-2016, 06:50 PM
I don't think James got hate for leaving. It was widely recognized that the Cavs were poorly constructed. I think it was more about how he did it. That one hour special was a joke. I don't care what he stated after the fact about how he was going to donate the money earned. He's stupid rich if he cared that much he could just donate the money and not make a spectacle, all eyes on me, out of his free agency.

ehh, not sure on that. I do read a good amount of people that hate him purely because of the decision show, but a large portion also hate him because unlike some of the greats prior to him who won chips, he left his team.

Anyways, some people will never get over his actions. He himself basically got rid of the people he surrounded himself with, and mentioned he would have done it much differently. I watched it, I was absolutely blown away when he said, "south beach". I couldn't believe he did it publically like that. But, I really don't care at the end of the day. He signed up for it because it pumped a lot of money into charity, but he obviously didn't have anyone in his corner that stepped up and said, "uh, hey Bron, this is kind of a stab in the city of Cleveland's heart, the way you are doing this".

But I read a lot of people who just scream, "he needed stars!". Uh, they all do haha. Luckily for Magic, Bird, Jordan, Duncan, and Kobe, their initial teams provided plenty of those.

Aust
02-24-2016, 06:52 PM
They'll never do it. 1)Miami's hated as a sports town, 2)most people love the Warriors, and 3)most people like Durant as a personality and actually buy this humble act he puts on from time to time. Sad, but the truth.

You think he puts on a fake public act?

likemystylez
02-24-2016, 06:53 PM
why are people saying everyone hates LeBron so much over the decision anyway? I mean the team he screwed over the hardest and embarrassed was not only willing to but excited to resign him and bring him back in at the first chance they got.

mngopher35
02-24-2016, 06:57 PM
If you don't think Lebron got hate for leaving and joining stars (which is exactly what durant would be doing but to a way more extreme extent) then you weren't paying attention. It still gets brought up today ffs. Sure that outside stuff like the decision and pep rally also got hate (imo just gave those who wanted to more chances, like a hometown pep rally is really that horrible) but that was one of the most hated on teams/athletes I've seen recently.

In this scenario durant would be leaving for a better team, with a better player than himself, after having great support throughout his career (despite fo mistakes). I'm not in the business of telling these players where to play or how to live so it isn't as big of a deal to me but it would obviously be worse from a neutral stand point.

likemystylez
02-24-2016, 07:06 PM
If you don't think Lebron got hate for leaving and joining stars (which is exactly what durant would be doing but to a way more extreme extent) then you weren't paying attention. It still gets brought up today ffs. Sure that outside stuff like the decision and pep rally also got hate (imo just gave those who wanted to more chances, like a hometown pep rally is really that horrible) but that was one of the most hated on teams/athletes I've seen recently.

In this scenario durant would be leaving for a better team, with a better player than himself, after having great support throughout his career (despite fo mistakes). I'm not in the business of telling these players where to play or how to live so it isn't as big of a deal to me but it would obviously be worse from a neutral stand point.

Durant is not the same situation though. LeBron collaborated with 2 other super stars. Lebron didn't do it quiety- he made sure the whole country stopped what they were doing and watched him screw over his home town. (Kind of a classless and unprofessional move)

Durant would be one player leaving for a better team. Just like chris mullin let the warriors know he wanted to be traded and was sent to the pacers (who he thought were a contending team).

And on top of that- the cavs forgave LeBron and brought him back..... so its not that big of a deal if the team that got screwed over the hardest forgave him and loves him again

mngopher35
02-24-2016, 07:13 PM
Is there a stat that can show if Durant is better on catch-and-shoot rather than isolation shots? He had that one 3 off a pass from Westbrook and missed it in the game that eliminated OKC versus the Spurs. I think he's better with the ball in his hands prior to a shot, but again, a stat would help.

nba.com has some stats that can help...

On catch and shoot Durant 60.8 EFG% and 42 3pt% both above his overall averages.

Durant has easily his highest EFG% when he takes 0 dribbles as opposed to putting it on the floor (65.3 down to 55 just from adding 1 dribble and it drops again at 3+). Although for 3's it doesn't drop too much until you hit 7+.

With what we usually see and this data I think it is safe to think he is better when he is put in position to just shoot as compared to having to create (as are most).

Edit: Here is link if you wanna look around http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201142/tracking/shots/?p=kevin-durant&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season

mngopher35
02-24-2016, 07:23 PM
Durant is not the same situation though. LeBron collaborated with 2 other super stars. Lebron didn't do it quiety- he made sure the whole country stopped what they were doing and watched him screw over his home town. (Kind of a classless and unprofessional move)

Durant would be one player leaving for a better team. Just like chris mullin let the warriors know he wanted to be traded and was sent to the pacers (who he thought were a contending team).

And on top of that- the cavs forgave LeBron and brought him back..... so its not that big of a deal if the team that got screwed over the hardest forgave him and loves him again

The biggest thing ever talked about was and has been how Lebron needed to leave Cleveland and join two superstars to win hurting his legacy (to the group that hated on the move). How no other great needed to pair with that much talent (not that I agree, it's just ridiculous hate). That Cleveland team was far worse than the teams OKC has given Durant so he has less of a reason to leave and he would also be joining a better team than that Heat team was as well. I mean he won't even be the best player on the team so he would have left to join someone better even.

I totally agree with you that it isn't a big deal, I am saying it is a more extreme example of what Lebron has been getting hate for years. Obviously a team will take back an all time great player when they haven't made the playoffs since like late 90's without him. I don't think Durant/Warriors will get as much hate because Durant is much more liked and there were a couple groups who already disliked lebron and just used that as an excuse to pile on. I do think there would still be a decent amount of hate aimed at them if this happened though.

likemystylez
02-24-2016, 07:30 PM
The biggest thing ever talked about was and has been how Lebron needed to leave Cleveland and join two superstars to win hurting his legacy (to the group that hated on the move). How no other great needed to pair with that much talent (not that I agree, it's just ridiculous hate). That Cleveland team was far worse than the teams OKC has given Durant so he has less of a reason to leave and he would also be joining a better team than that Heat team was as well. I mean he won't even be the best player on the team so he would have left to join someone better even.

I totally agree with you that it isn't a big deal, I am saying it is a more extreme example of what Lebron has been getting hate for years. Obviously a team will take back an all time great player when they haven't made the playoffs since like late 90's without him. I don't think Durant/Warriors will get as much hate because Durant is much more liked and there were a couple groups who already disliked lebron and just used that as an excuse to pile on. I do think there would still be a decent amount of hate aimed at them if this happened though.

so if LeBron didn't jump ship and go to the heat, and he stuck it out and the cavs never put talent around him... he would have no championships and people would be comparing him to melo.

so in a few yrs- would Durant rather be compared to a guy like LeBron or a guy like melo?

mngopher35
02-24-2016, 07:35 PM
so if LeBron didn't jump ship and go to the heat, and he stuck it out and the cavs never put talent around him... he would have no championships and people would be comparing him to melo.

so in a few yrs- would Durant rather be compared to a guy like LeBron or a guy like melo?

Well we don't know for sure what would have happened but I definitely agree with your basic point of going to a great team was clearly the right call. He was already clearly past Melo but he likely wouldn't have just been rated top 3 by espn lol. Again I am not saying Durant can't/shouldn't do it but it is clearly a more extreme example of that so it would get hated on some.

Also if Durant won a title with OKC and was the best player (remember this is still a very good team with a top 5 player) it would help his legacy more than being 2nd fiddle and winning a couple. Now GS would obviously be positioned for more than that but like I said this would be an even more extreme example because he wouldn't just be with Klay/Green, on top of that there is already Curry who is the best player in the league.

phantasyyy
02-24-2016, 07:50 PM
why are people saying everyone hates LeBron so much over the decision anyway? I mean the team he screwed over the hardest and embarrassed was not only willing to but excited to resign him and bring him back in at the first chance they got

Well duh.. they welcomed him back at first sight/opportunity. What team wouldnt want a returning MVP and best player in the game rejoining their team - especially with the team being gifted 3/4 #1 overall picks since his he left to bolster the talent of the team for him to rejoin. I mean time heals all wounds but you can bet there a **** ton of Cavs fans that are still mad as hell that he won two chips with Miami - with Cleveland left to suffer.I mean if he fails to actually win one with Cleveland I personally think his decision to leave will be scrutinzed even further.

likemystylez
02-24-2016, 07:54 PM
Well duh.. they welcomed him back at first sight/opportunity. What team wouldnt want a returning MVP and best player in the game rejoining their team - especially with the team being gifted 3/4 #1 overall picks since his he left to bolster the talent of the team for him to rejoin. I mean time heals all wounds but you can bet there a **** ton of Cavs fans that are still mad as hell that he won two chips with Miami - with Cleveland left to suffer.I mean if he fails to actually win one with Cleveland I personally think his decision to leave will be scrutinzed even further.

if he fails to win in Cleveland- that actually serves to justify that going to Miami was the right decision. Infact, I cant think of a stronger piece of evidence to make people agree with his decision to leave the cavs.

shep33
02-24-2016, 07:58 PM
Situations are a little different. They wouldn't all be teaming up to take a mid level team greatness. It would be KD joining a contender. He'd also play second fiddle to Curry. Also I assume if this were to happen they wouldn't turn it into an hour special where they promise not 1, not 2, not 3, not 4, not 5, not 6 championships. Basically implying they're planning on being better than Jordan/the Bulls whom many consider the best team ever in the modernish era.


I still think this is worse though. I agree with you on the spectacle, but my gawd, Bron left a trash team in Cleveland with zero help and ownership that was terrible at the time to say the least.

KD is leaving behind a very good team with a top 5 NBA player.

But talent wise... without a doubt this Warriors team > Miami when Bron first joined. Curry, Klay, Draymond... add KD to that mix? Disgusting.

I think KD being the 2nd fiddle tells us how weird that is. Everyone knew Bron was the best player on Miami when he got there.


Again, I'm not saying he should get flack, but if LBJ got it, and yeah the spectacle was awful, but the hate was gonna be there regardless, then KD should get it.

likemystylez
02-24-2016, 08:04 PM
I still think this is worse though. I agree with you on the spectacle, but my gawd, Bron left a trash team in Cleveland with zero help and ownership that was terrible at the time to say the least.

KD is leaving behind a very good team with a top 5 NBA player.

But talent wise... without a doubt this Warriors team > Miami when Bron first joined. Curry, Klay, Draymond... add KD to that mix? Disgusting.

I think KD being the 2nd fiddle tells us how weird that is. Everyone knew Bron was the best player on Miami when he got there.


Again, I'm not saying he should get flack, but if LBJ got it, and yeah the spectacle was awful, but the hate was gonna be there regardless, then KD should get it.

that cavs team wasn't as bad as people say. They had the best record in the league the 2 yrs right before LeBron left. I understand they didn't win it all, but having the best record in the nba eliminates you from being a trash team doesn't it?

lets look at the last two yrs for okc. last yr they didn't even make the playoffs and this yr they wont even have the best record in their conference let alone the nba

mngopher35
02-24-2016, 08:33 PM
that cavs team wasn't as bad as people say. They had the best record in the league the 2 yrs right before LeBron left. I understand they didn't win it all, but having the best record in the nba eliminates you from being a trash team doesn't it?

lets look at the last two yrs for okc. last yr they didn't even make the playoffs and this yr they wont even have the best record in their conference let alone the nba

Durant was injured most of the year and Westy had injuries too lol.

Lets try this a different way quick (I can come back with more evidence if needed but common sense should kick in). Would you trade 26 y/o Mo, 26 y/o AV, and 33 y/o Jamison for Current Westbrook? We are talking arguably their top 3 not even being worth 1 of Durants teammates and honestly the entire roster outside Lebron wouldn't net him via trade. They were role players who fit around Lebron but to compare that to having Westbrook and Ibaka would be insane.

Durant was arguably outplayed by his teammate the last time he was in the playoffs, no one on Cleveland those years was even close (outside of Lebron in 09 and 10 none of the other top 6 in minutes played had a PER at 15+, in comparison Westy lead the Thunder in PER last playoffs for OKC)

shep33
02-24-2016, 08:34 PM
that cavs team wasn't as bad as people say. They had the best record in the league the 2 yrs right before LeBron left. I understand they didn't win it all, but having the best record in the nba eliminates you from being a trash team doesn't it?

lets look at the last two yrs for okc. last yr they didn't even make the playoffs and this yr they wont even have the best record in their conference let alone the nba

Different league though. The west was dominant last year and okc had brutal injuries. Cleveland with bron had no chance beating a western opponent in the NBA finals

likemystylez
02-24-2016, 08:44 PM
Different league though. The west was dominant last year and okc had brutal injuries. Cleveland with bron had no chance beating a western opponent in the NBA finals

im still not convinved that a 60 win team is trash... even in the weaker conference. they were still a top 4 or 5 team in the league... kinda like okc is now

mngopher35
02-24-2016, 09:14 PM
I really want my Wolves to pluck Barnes away in FA. He would fit what they need at SF

Dont get to watch much Wolves games but i always wondered why Lavine doesnt start at the 2, and Wiggins the 3 for you guys? With a Rubio/Lavine/Wiggins/Deng/Towns lineup or something of that nature.

I mean they both have the size to handle the respective SG and SF positions. Also with Wiggins wouldnt he better suited for the SF position with his bigger size, defensive chops, and inability to stretch the floor on a consistent basis?

Sam Mitchell. He is finally coming around to this but most minny fans have wanted the same thing for a while. That lineup you listed is exactly what I want to see with Tyus (to see what we have) and shabazz (earned) getting solid pt off the bench.

phantasyyy
02-24-2016, 09:17 PM
if he fails to win in Cleveland- that actually serves to justify that going to Miami was the right decision. Infact, I cant think of a stronger piece of evidence to make people agree with his decision to leave the cavs.

Not necessarily he came back to a Cleveland loaded with assets and an owner willing to go to into the deep end in terms of luxury taxes for him to finally a win a ring for Cleveland. Not to mention hes had a pretty huge influence in terms of roster construction and coaching decisions. The Cleveland roster has been 100% molded to his individual skills, as was the Cleveland team prior to his decision. Only difference this time is that he has two real allstars in Kyrie and Love...unlike say Mo Williams and Big Z.

I mean people **** on that his Cleveland team prior to Miami and sure it lacked the talent overall as compared to other championships teams. But it was molded to fit around his individual talents similair to the way the 2001 76ers were fitted around Iverson. As with both teams they lacked a 2nd option to be successful.

In terms of team comparisons though between this years OKC and 2010 Cleveland its really no comparison in terms of which team has more talent. The key difference is OKC is too top heavy in (WB/KD/IBAKA) and that Cleveland team was full of role players (Mo, West, Z, Shaq, Hickson, Jamison)

likemystylez
02-24-2016, 11:41 PM
Not necessarily he came back to a Cleveland loaded with assets and an owner willing to go to into the deep end in terms of luxury taxes for him to finally a win a ring for Cleveland. Not to mention hes had a pretty huge influence in terms of roster construction and coaching decisions. The Cleveland roster has been 100% molded to his individual skills, as was the Cleveland team prior to his decision. Only difference this time is that he has two real allstars in Kyrie and Love...unlike say Mo Williams and Big Z.

I mean people **** on that his Cleveland team prior to Miami and sure it lacked the talent overall as compared to other championships teams. But it was molded to fit around his individual talents similair to the way the 2001 76ers were fitted around Iverson. As with both teams they lacked a 2nd option to be successful.

In terms of team comparisons though between this years OKC and 2010 Cleveland its really no comparison in terms of which team has more talent. The key difference is OKC is too top heavy in (WB/KD/IBAKA) and that Cleveland team was full of role players (Mo, West, Z, Shaq, Hickson, Jamison)

Right- it took lebron leaving for the cavs to start gathering assets. So if he had stayed there, they wouldnt have guys like irving, and probably not love.

Lebron wanted to win a championship, and if cleveland cant get it done even with this roster.... he was right to go to miami. people would be ripping on him either way. he leaves clevland to get rings... he has a bad image. he stays with the cavs and never wins a ring... that hurts his legacy too.

and sorry to mention it- but with the emergence of the warriors with or without durant- i dont think the cavs are getting closer to that championship in the next few yrs either.

Scoots
02-25-2016, 12:01 AM
I don't care one way or another about LeBron's decision. He's irrelevant now :)

I do think I've decided I don't want the Warriors to add KD. I want them to keep winning and being great without that crutch.

Saddletramp
02-25-2016, 02:37 AM
Right- it took lebron leaving for the cavs to start gathering assets.

Because without LeBron they were trash.


So if he had stayed there, they wouldnt have guys like irving, and probably not love.

Because those guys were acquired with #1 overall picks (directly with Kyrie and via Wiggins in the case of Love). LeBron never had a Westbrook (or Harden, or Ibaka). If Duramt can't win where he's at, it's way worse than what LeBron did. He's admitting that he can't win with a pretty stacked team throughout the years (something LeBron never had in Clevelamd before he left).


Lebron wanted to win a championship, and if cleveland cant get it done even with this roster.... he was right to go to miami. people would be ripping on him either way. he leaves clevland to get rings... he has a bad image. he stays with the cavs and never wins a ring... that hurts his legacy too.

Not every team is gift wrapped with multiple lottery picks, injuries to keep salaries down, a second round pick exploding into a triple double machine/DPOY candidate, a first time coach implementing a game changing system, vets taking discounts and tanking to finally put it all into place.

You said those Cavs teams weren't trash before LeBron left but without him, they got 3 of the next 4 1st overall picks. Of course they were trash without LeBron.


and sorry to mention it- but with the emergence of the warriors with or without durant- i dont think the cavs are getting closer to that championship in the next few yrs either.

You're probably right.

PatsSoxKnicks
02-25-2016, 05:06 AM
I think they sacrifice because they all went through the process together and because the veteran Iguodala was willing to take a "back-seat" role in order to help shore up the bench issues.

Kevin Durant is not Andre Iguodala. And bringing him in could cause massive ruffling of the feathers for guys like Draymond and especially Klay (who would be moved down to distant 3rd option, despite likely thinking he's first option worthy already). If they were to win this season, that could and likely would only make that worse. I feel like while on the surface they're bright enough to understand that this is a business, they would question why they needed to lose core pieces for a historically great team (with frankly historically great chemistry) in order to bring in another star. If they were to start in a rut and we had some situation where some shade was cast by a guy like Klay or Draymond (who will 100% no longer be seeing their normal usage) at management and/or KD, you'd have mass media immediately questioning the decision and that's where we'd have to see how strong this new teams fortitude was (and rest assure, it is a new team at this point). A future situation of Klay demanding a trade at some point would not entirely shock me if this went down.

This is not as simple as "see star, get star". It may end up being the right decision (if this is even something KD is even interested in... which, who the hell knows), but the Warriors are in a unique situation where they need to be smart about how big of a shakeup they want to make to this team.

For what it's worth, I'm all for losing Barnes (not worth his next price tag) AND not adding Durant, but I would definitely want them to try to swing a proper 3/D SF in Barnes' stead.

All in all, I'll trust Bob Meyers and co here. They 100% know what they are doing.

In reading this thread, I'm not sure that anyone actually read the entire Lowe article. It was fantastic. I think he seems to believe the Warriors should go for Durant because "it's Kevin freaking Durant" but he does outline the potential chemistry issues the Warriors might have and the fact that it's hard to break up a 70 win team with such great chemistry.

HOWEVER, there are a number of factors mentioned both in the Lowe article and Woj's report that highlight how it is probably the right move. Firstly, regarding the chemistry, in Woj's initial article, he mentioned that the Warriors think Durant would fit in seamlessly with their culture. By all accounts KD is an unselfish teammate (one need only listen to his MVP speech...) and we've seen him in OKC always willing to let Westbrook shoot more and basically "enable" Westbrook. This was especially the case a few years ago when people use to criticize Westbrook shooting more than KD etc. and KD would always come to his defense. So by all accounts, as a teammate, I think he appears to be unselfish. And regarding the OKC situation this year- where they're still iso'ing a lot, I think if you read between the lines (from the early reports coming from training camp), KD was willing to try to more ball movement etc. stuff that Billy Donovan wanted to implement but Westbrook seemed like the guy who wasn't that interested. But if you do watch OKC, KD has been playing off the ball more this year with Westbrook dominating the ball more. And KD is such a great shooter (his C&S 3pt% is 41.8% and overall eFG% of 60.1%) that he can play off the ball. I feel like early in his career, they actually would run him off screens more and he'd catch and shoot. Basically, he did more off the ball. And you can get a sense of that if you look at his career Ast'd% on 3-pt attempts: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/d/duranke01.html#shooting::none

Edit: Here's the actual data (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/off-screen/?dir=1&sort=Time&CF=Poss*GE*25&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PT=player&OD=offensive) on Durant coming off screens. He's doing that fairly frequently as it is in OKC so that's one aspect that wouldn't be that different.

Notice for a few years, it was even up above 90%. And even above 80% for a bunch of years. In the last 3 years, that's gone down a ton. But basically, he has the skills to do it. As I mentioned, he's a terrific C&S shooter so he can play off the ball. Also of interest, he's scoring at 1.05 PPP on plays where he's the roll man in the P&R so you could attempt to use him as the screener in a Curry-Durant P&R (or even use the inverted combo since Curry can screen and Durant is a good ball handler).

Finally, just looking at this (http://stats.nba.com/playtype/#!/cut/?dir=1&sort=PPP&CF=Poss*GE*25&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&PT=player&OD=offensive), Durant is the 3rd most efficient player in the league on cuts (1.62 PPP is insane btw). Now he doesn't do it very often but he clearly has that ability.

So I think people who are saying he's only an isolation scorer are not seeing the whole picture. He does a ton of things well, he just doesn't do them that often (like cut to the basket). But theoretically, you add him to GS, where the culture of ball movement, player movement is well established and I don't see why he wouldn't fit in well. As we saw with those stats, he's a capable scorer off ball (be it cuts or spot up or off screens) and given the way he's allowed Westbrook to "run wild" while he takes more off a backseat despite being the better player says enough in terms of him "fitting in" with Curry being the #1 option. That wouldn't be much different tbh.

Also, something else that's not getting mentioned: Curry plays A TON off the ball too. I think people are forgetting that. Ultimately the Warriors are a team with players who all excel at playing off ball including their superstar but can go get that iso shot with Curry if they need it. Durant basically is no different- his #'s are great in some of those off ball situations I mentioned above. And if he's on the ball, guys like Curry and Klay have proven they can play off ball.

Anyways, I think the Warriors pretty much see exactly what I mentioned above. As for how Klay and Draymond would react to having their usage cut down, I get the impression Draymond would be fine with it since he considers himself the "do everything else" player. But I suppose you could be understandably skeptical how Klay would react given his "I'm the best SG in the league" comments etc. He might not like being the 3rd option. But KD and Steph? I think they'd be totally fine. Steph isn't the type of player to ***** about shots and well, we've seen KD with Westbrook so don't think he is either.

So that's addresses the whole fit thing. But there's more to consider for the Warriors. Haven't seen this mentioned in any of the posts in this thread but Zach talks about it in the article and it's a very real smart reason to go after KD. Not all of the Warriors role players are very young. Bogut, Iggy and Livingston are 30+ with 2 of them having very real legit injury histories. How long are those guys going to be useful players? Also, all of their contracts are going to be coming up soon which means you'd have to pay them too. And between the 3 of them, they'll make as much as KD if not more. You also have Barnes, who will probably get a max. Ezeli too. And then the big elephant: Curry's not going to continue to make peanuts going forward. He'll need to be extended too. Ultimately, it's probably going to end up being impossible to keep the current team for more than a few more years because of the ages and prices of many of the role players. And if you end up losing all those role players because either they're too old or too expensive, how are you in a better situation than if you let them go and added KD instead?

So really what people fail to understand is that the Warriors, while taking a risk with chemistry, would also be extending their window by adding another star whose in the same age range. It's impractical to expect the current Warriors team to be the same 4-5 years down the line. Hell, even MJ's Bulls went through 2 different iterations with the 2 different 3-peats. The core remained the same but the guys around them changed. Ultimately, the Warriors would be keeping the 3 most important guys and that's what most important.

Finally, again, it seems people didn't read the whole article. The Warriors would actually be able to KEEP 2 of those 4 guys and sign KD. So they wouldn't even be losing everyone. My guess is they'd keep Ezeli since he's younger and doesn't have an injury history like Bogut (how many years does he realistically have anyways?) and then they might keep Iggy since Barnes money is likely to get out of control. Out of those 4, Livingston is easily the most replaceable (he's got a negative RAPM this year and for his career after all so the idea that he's this vital piece to this team is a little misguided).

So you'd have your core 4 guys (including KD), Ezeli, either Iggy or Barnes and then you'd really only be worried about 2 bench spots to get to 8 guys which is more than fine for a playoff rotation. That won't be that hard with all the people flocking to the Warriors to ring chase. And with the way the Warriors draft, they might be able to fill those 2 rotations spots with picks too. And voila, your team is essentially as deep as you have now, except you also have another superstar on your team. (And to be honest, I kinda think the Warriors depth is a bit overrated- I mean they blow a **** ton of 30 point leads in the 4th. Contrast that with the Spurs, who have spent a larger% of their minutes up by 20+, mainly because their bench can maintain and usually extend those leads.)

So to sum it up, I think a) everyone needs to actually read that whole Lowe article, there are A LOT of excellent points in there and b) I think Chronz has got a point about there being a fear of failure more than anything. By all accounts, the move makes a lot of sense basketball wise. And as I mentioned, their best path to extending their window might actually be signing Durant because ultimately all those bench guys are going to either continue to age and/or get more expensive or more likely both so that it becomes impossible to keep the exact team together. And if you look throughout the post salary cap history, most teams don't stick with the same role players throughout their entire run i.e. the Bulls in their 2 different 3-peats or the Spurs having different sets of role players in a lot of their championships. Ultimately role players can be replaced if your coaching staff is elite and understand how to get the best out of players and put them in position to succeed. And there is no doubt that Kerr understands that. Not only that but his stars believe in the culture he's built which means whatever role players do come in, they'll fall in line. And I think the fact that the 2 biggest stars at that potential team- KD and Steph seem so unselfish would mean their chemistry would ultimately be fine (tho I understand skepticism regarding Klay).

Oh and regarding Kerr and the coaching staff, they're excellent. I'd have full confidence in his ability to integrate KD into the Warriors. He's had tons of experience (played with the GOAT after all) and I think ultimately that a lot of the stuff that the Warriors emphasize, KD is already pretty good at. The biggest difficulty for KD might be becoming a quicker passer (making decisions faster) to keep the flow and movement going (ironically an on ball issue) but as far as off ball, I think that aspect of his game is pretty underrated (if for the reason it's not utilized much but look at his #'s in some of those situations and they're great- i.e. like his efficiency on cuts is just insane).

PatsSoxKnicks
02-25-2016, 05:12 AM
It would make them worse defensively.
Hurt their depth.
Take the ball out of Steph's hands.
Force them to change their offense.

No split necessary. Pass on Durant.

KoB, respect you but gotta disagree pretty heavily here. See my post above. Also, read the whole Zach Lowe article ;) He gives plenty of reasons that it makes sense, not the least of which is the fact that keeping their existing team for more than a few years is not probable for age and/or money reasons.

Also, cmon, I know you watch a ton of bball. How do you not see how well Curry plays off the ball? And seems like you're underrating KD as a defender. As for the other points (changing offense and hurting depth), read my post above for how that's not true ;)

MonroeFAN
02-25-2016, 06:23 AM
It's a pretty huge assumption to say KD would even want to play for the Warriors.

Nothing we have seen from him indicates that he would join a rival peer to ring chase. He wants to beat Steph, not tag along.

Plus it seems like him and Russ may end up reuniting in the next destination and Russ for SURE is not with the super team.

For as much crap as I give you here, this is a good post.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
02-25-2016, 11:22 AM
What would adding him cost them? Barnes?

There was a article a while back giving all the option how to get Durant. Warriors have to like trade Bogut and Iggy. Also renounce a bunch of guys and let Barnes/Ezeli walk.

valade16
02-25-2016, 11:35 AM
There was a article a while back giving all the option how to get Durant. Warriors have to like trade Bogut and Iggy. Also renounce a bunch of guys and let Barnes/Ezeli walk.

I believe an article posted in this thread said it would cost them Barnes and 2/4 of Bogut/Ezeli/Iggy/Livingston.

Hawkeye15
02-25-2016, 11:51 AM
Durant is not the same situation though. LeBron collaborated with 2 other super stars. Lebron didn't do it quiety- he made sure the whole country stopped what they were doing and watched him screw over his home town. (Kind of a classless and unprofessional move)

Durant would be one player leaving for a better team. Just like chris mullin let the warriors know he wanted to be traded and was sent to the pacers (who he thought were a contending team).

And on top of that- the cavs forgave LeBron and brought him back..... so its not that big of a deal if the team that got screwed over the hardest forgave him and loves him again

so we will just give Durant a pass for lucking out and having one of the greatest teams of all time with stars in their prime with cap room, right? Do you remember the teams that cleared cap room for LeBron? Why would he have wanted to join them?

I just think people get worked up about how player A improved his situation, versus player B. Nothing was, or can be proven, what happened was James went to Miami in FA.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
02-25-2016, 12:03 PM
I believe an article posted in this thread said it would cost them Barnes and 2/4 of Bogut/Ezeli/Iggy/Livingston.

Still gutting their bench out. 2 or 3 starters gone then. Also doubt Curry and Klay stay at the high shooting pace. They will come down to earth and have a stinker season soon enough. Also probably injury plagued season. Every team goes through it.

eDush
02-25-2016, 12:14 PM
There was a article a while back giving all the option how to get Durant. Warriors have to like trade Bogut and Iggy. Also renounce a bunch of guys and let Barnes/Ezeli walk.

That would NEVER happened. They would offer both of them to OKC for them to agree to a sign and trade for trading Durant to the Warriors in order to maximize his super duper max contract otherwise their would be no incentive for OKC to do that unless he stays. I doubt Durant would sign the lesser 4 year standard max without some form of S&T involved.

Barnes will be sought after from up to 6 teams that would offer him the max this off season when the salary cap still rockets (from those in the know) and OKC would NEED a championship winning SF to replace Durant if he does leave. It just makes sense people :nod:

THE MTL
02-25-2016, 12:18 PM
I think taking the ball out of Steph and Draymond hands would hurt them. Team is on pace to win 70 games. You don't touch that team!!! Lol

Tony_Starks
02-25-2016, 01:15 PM
The very first thing Andy V remarked about when he got to GS was the team unity. Everyone getting along and pulling for each other.

It's not just the players they have, a lot of them are cast always who weren't highly regarded before they came, it's the fit. They are all interchangeable pieces.

When you got something going like that you don't even think about trying to rock the boat.

GS doesn't have to change a thing, the rest of the league has to figure out how to beat them.

kobe4thewinbang
02-25-2016, 01:30 PM
A stat to see if a player is better at shooting while covered vs while open? I kinda assumed that was common sense. its like wondering if a player prefers winning or losing if he has a choice.

but lets base it on one missed open shot LOLLots of players were/are better "in the clutch" with a defender on them rather than when they're open. MJ, Kobe, Curry and Durant. So you can't overgeneralize.

kobe4thewinbang
02-25-2016, 01:33 PM
well he referenced one missed open shot as proof that he might prefer to be covered (IE play isolation). I cant think of a player who would prefer to get less open looksYou can't really guard Durant anyway unless you're tall as hell too. The other night, Durant made the game winning shot on the break with a defender on him. Just saying I've seen him do that more often than I've seen him make open shots.

kobe4thewinbang
02-25-2016, 01:36 PM
I think he's talking about catch and shoot vs dribbling into a shot ... both accuracy and frequency. Those numbers are available.Cool. Thanks.

kobe4thewinbang
02-25-2016, 01:45 PM
nba.com has some stats that can help...

On catch and shoot Durant 60.8 EFG% and 42 3pt% both above his overall averages.

Durant has easily his highest EFG% when he takes 0 dribbles as opposed to putting it on the floor (65.3 down to 55 just from adding 1 dribble and it drops again at 3+). Although for 3's it doesn't drop too much until you hit 7+.

With what we usually see and this data I think it is safe to think he is better when he is put in position to just shoot as compared to having to create (as are most).

Edit: Here is link if you wanna look around http://stats.nba.com/player/#!/201142/tracking/shots/?p=kevin-durant&Season=2015-16&SeasonType=Regular%20SeasonThanks for finding it! I do see that Durant is better with a defender closely on him rather than a lax defender which I think supports what I'm saying. Durant shoots worse when the defender leaves him more open than not or wide open. He does shoot best without dribbling, but one dribble only drops his accuracy by 1%. And on 3PTers, he's better after taking a dribble than not taking one. I wasn't looking at EFG, though, but strictly FG%. And he actually shoots slightly better on pull ups than on catch and shoot.

Now it might not be all bad for the Warriors to have someone like Durant to be reliable with the ball, but I'm not convinced that purely catch and shoot is going to showcase his talents since he tends to miss the more open he is. He might just be playing the coach style (not sure how that has changed since Brooks left, as I only watch highlights of OKC) or maybe he does like pulling up more than catching and shooting.

Scoots
02-25-2016, 01:53 PM
It comes down to does KD want to be a Warrior ... then it's how bad he wants to be a Warrior and how good he wants the Warriors to be around him.

Chronz
02-25-2016, 02:29 PM
Thanks for finding it! I do see that Durant is better with a defender closely on him rather than a lax defender which I think supports what I'm saying.
Not really. Im just now jumping in so I dont know what was said before this but KD is prolly the best off the ball superstar, offensively speaking hes pretty much complete now.

As for the numbers, his highest eFG% is easily when hes "open". And his "wide open" eFG% is still higher than the "very tight" situations. If you combine both wide open and open shots, they crush the contested figures.

If you guys are looking at just jumpshots then its a closer argument but I think that might be because Durant vary rarely has to alter his shot anyways.

Keep in mind, a defender can be near you in a wide open layup situation whereas you could be chucking an emergency heave with no one around you. Thats why the sample size is so important. Only like 6% or so of his shots were wide open so there a high variance there.

Chronz
02-25-2016, 02:37 PM
That would NEVER happened. They would offer both of them to OKC for them to agree to a sign and trade for trading Durant to the Warriors in order to maximize his super duper max contract otherwise their would be no incentive for OKC to do that unless he stays. I doubt Durant would sign the lesser 4 year standard max without some form of S&T involved.

Barnes will be sought after from up to 6 teams that would offer him the max this off season when the salary cap still rockets (from those in the know) and OKC would NEED a championship winning SF to replace Durant if he does leave. It just makes sense people :nod:

Whats your godfather offer for KD?

Iggy-Barnes-Ezeli-????

OR

Blake Mofukn Griffin - Austin MOFUKN Rivers

KnicksorBust
02-25-2016, 04:04 PM
They would have to make some changes, but Durant would fit into the Warriors style just fine. He has an eFG% of 60.8% on catch and shoot which account for 25.1% of his FGA, 65.3% when he takes 0 dribbles which accounts for 37.4% of his FGA (by far highest of his dribble splits) and 61.9% when he shoots the ball in under 2 seconds from getting it which accounts for 48.3% of his FGA (by far highest of his ball time splits).

The problem is I'm not foolish. I'm not saying Durant wouldn't fit. I'm saying it's a forced fit. Obviously a super talented player could be successful in a ball movement offense with other incredibly talented players drawing attention way from him. It's not like the Dream Team lost to Angola because Barkley couldn't fit with MJ. Overwhelming talent will still win games.


Is Durant a great ISO scorer who ISO's a lot? Absolutely, but he's an amazing scorer in every way. He would have zero issue fitting into a great offensive system like that. Meshing with Curry? He already plays with Westbrook, who is as ball dominant and a high volume shooter as anyone in the NBA. Running around, spotting up, passing, etc? All thing he already does at a high level. Playing high effort D? Again, no issue.

Do you honestly believe he would still have the same volume of touches playing with Curry/Klay/Draymond? It's a 2 man show in OKC. It'd be a 4 man show in GState.


The trick is mixing up the rotation and roles. Durant wouldn't fill Barnes role, he would fill Thompson role. Imagine the same offense they have now, only a 6'11 Durant in the place of Thompson, and as a result of being a far better player him being more involved. I think what would happen is a role reversal with Thompson and Iguodala, with Iguodala filling the Barnes role in the starting 5 and Thompson becoming a ridiculous 6th man playing 30-32 MPG just like he does now. Green's usage would also go down, which is only good because he isn't a 3rd of the offensive player Durant is.

Staggering in the minutes would help but at the end of the games...


With Curry-Thompson-Durant-Green, you keep 2-3 of them on the court at all times and late in games all 4. Right now teams get a breather and a bit of chance to come back when Curry is out. Imagine a world where it's the 2nd/3rd quarter and Curry is coming out for Kevin freaking Durant, and vice versa lol. Nobody would be able to compete with them.

No doubt they'd be a monster. The best argument to me is that Curry/Klay/Durant probably double as 3 of the best OFF-BALL players in the NBA as well. Their cutting/spot-up shooting is elite. However, the ball would stagnate more. They would lose defenders/depth. And you would be telling one of the best scorers in NBA History to play spectator AGAIN. Scary thought.


It comes down to does KD want to be a Warrior ... then it's how bad he wants to be a Warrior and how good he wants the Warriors to be around him.

I hope he doesn't want to be a Warrior. I try very hard to be consistent with my beliefs but this one is tough. I had no problem with LeBron forming the super team in Miami. I think the Cavs blew it the first time around and you shouldn't be stuck playing for an incompetent franchise. However, I would be mad if Durant bails on OKC. Westbrook and Ibaka is enough to get it done. He needs to win a ring with the Thunder.

2-ONE-5
02-25-2016, 04:10 PM
could you imagine the backlash KD would get if teh Warriors didnt win or even make it to the finals

likemystylez
02-25-2016, 04:15 PM
could you imagine the backlash KD would get if teh Warriors didnt win or even make it to the finals

the most pathetic reason I've heard not to put yourself in the best position to win a championship when the opportunity is right infront of you.

Obviously its a possibility he wont win a championship, but his chances would be really really good. In contrast- if he decides against the warriors an then watches the warriors be dominant for the next 3 - 4 yrs and win a few championships... that's the kind of decision that could haunt you the rest of your life.

2-ONE-5
02-25-2016, 04:51 PM
where did i say the fear of not winning it all should be a reason for KD not to join GS? he has a good chance to win a ring with a number of teams in the league. Sorry its not haunting to miss potentially miss out on a ring by joining one of the best teams of all time. KD doesnt give the impression he wants to Lebron easy way out, i think he wants to beat GS more than he wants to join them personally.

Chronz
02-25-2016, 04:58 PM
where did i say the fear of not winning it all should be a reason for KD not to join GS? he has a good chance to win a ring with a number of teams in the league. Sorry its not haunting to miss potentially miss out on a ring by joining one of the best teams of all time. KD doesnt give the impression he wants to Lebron easy way out, i think he wants to beat GS more than he wants to join them personally.

Bron didn't join a historically great team, don't put this potential union on equal footing

valade16
02-25-2016, 04:58 PM
I hope he doesn't want to be a Warrior. I try very hard to be consistent with my beliefs but this one is tough. I had no problem with LeBron forming the super team in Miami. I think the Cavs blew it the first time around and you shouldn't be stuck playing for an incompetent franchise. However, I would be mad if Durant bails on OKC. Westbrook and Ibaka is enough to get it done. He needs to win a ring with the Thunder.

I kind of have the same sentiment however when you break it down OKC's management has been every bit as inept as Cleveland's was, they just started from a better spot (having KD, Russ and Ibaka vs. just Bron).

This is their 7th season being a quality team with KD, Russ and Ibaka and the only good players they have are... KD, Russ and Ibaka.

They've managed to turn Harden, Jeff Green, and Reggie Jackson into Enes Kanter and Dion Waiters.

Outside of getting KD, Russ, Harden and Ibaka they have been absolutely terrible.

85BearsDefense
02-25-2016, 05:04 PM
Anyone saying pass on Durant is a registered idiot. Can you imagine how many open 3's Durant would get next to Curry? And vice versa. Durant would have 1 on 1 matchups the entire game and if you helped down then boom Thompson wide open 3, Curry open 3. Its not even a question. Hes a top 5 player in the league.

nastynice
02-25-2016, 05:45 PM
If dubs DID add kd, it would probably be the funnest team to ever watch play

likemystylez
02-25-2016, 06:49 PM
If dubs DID add kd, it would probably be the funnest team to ever watch play

I for one can't think of anything funner

:D

Saddletramp
02-25-2016, 08:00 PM
I for one can't think of anything funner

:D

You can respond to my post although that wouldn't be funner, it'd just be you realizing that you were wrong, which I assume you've done since you haven't responded.

likemystylez
02-25-2016, 08:23 PM
where did i say the fear of not winning it all should be a reason for KD not to join GS? he has a good chance to win a ring with a number of teams in the league. Sorry its not haunting to miss potentially miss out on a ring by joining one of the best teams of all time. KD doesnt give the impression he wants to Lebron easy way out, i think he wants to beat GS more than he wants to join them personally.

if he leaves OKC which is what this is all contingent on- its pretty clear he would be leaving to win. There are not a number of teams out there that clearly give him a better chance than OKC. The warriors are one of them- and with him- that better chance could last the next 5 or 6 yrs.

all this crap about not going to a contender... in any other field- the best at their profession are fighting to get into the best companies. Best highschool players are trying to play for the best college programs. ITS BS that its different. people are just haters

likemystylez
02-25-2016, 10:31 PM
Because without LeBron they were trash.



Because those guys were acquired with #1 overall picks (directly with Kyrie and via Wiggins in the case of Love). LeBron never had a Westbrook (or Harden, or Ibaka). If Duramt can't win where he's at, it's way worse than what LeBron did. He's admitting that he can't win with a pretty stacked team throughout the years (something LeBron never had in Clevelamd before he left).



Not every team is gift wrapped with multiple lottery picks, injuries to keep salaries down, a second round pick exploding into a triple double machine/DPOY candidate, a first time coach implementing a game changing system, vets taking discounts and tanking to finally put it all into place.

You said those Cavs teams weren't trash before LeBron left but without him, they got 3 of the next 4 1st overall picks. Of course they were trash without LeBron.



You're probably right.

Lebron on that cavs team had back to back 60 win seasons- that team wasnt trash.

Did that cavs team hand away a guy like james harden- then turn around and pay a guy like kanter more than harden was asking for? (That alone should make durant question how bad the team wants to win games)

IKnowHoops
02-25-2016, 10:43 PM
Lebron on that cavs team had back to back 60 win seasons- that team wasnt trash.

Did that cavs team hand away a guy like james harden- then turn around and pay a guy like kanter more than harden was asking for? (That alone should make durant question how bad the team wants to win games)

After Lebron, there were no Hardens or Westbrooks to trade for a Kanter. And those teams without Lebron were trash. As soon as he left they were the worst team in the NBA.

likemystylez
02-25-2016, 10:48 PM
After Lebron, there were no Hardens or Westbrooks to trade for a Kanter. And those teams without Lebron were trash. As soon as he left they were the worst team in the NBA.

they didnt trade harden for kanter.


but on to the point. no clevland dint have guys like harden. but the cavs were trying to bring in talent. they failed, but they were trying. iod rather have a team trying to do right and fail, than have to rely on ownership that is throwing away mvp talent to save money then turning around and spending more money on a guy like kanter

nastynice
02-26-2016, 02:22 AM
I don't think if KD were to consider the dubs it would be about getting a ring. I think t would be about wanting to go down as the best team in the history of basketball. That would be the clear objective. The thing is, are the dubs willing to make that move while already being on pace for a historical season, and would KD be wanting to chase that specific legacy? If the answer to both is yes, then they will find a way to make this happen.

Saddletramp
02-26-2016, 02:41 AM
Lebron on that cavs team had back to back 60 win seasons- that team wasnt trash.

As soon as LeBron left, that same team (sans LeBron) was the worst team in the league and got the next 3 out of 4 number one draft picks. You don't know what you're talking about.


Did that cavs team hand away a guy like james harden- then turn around and pay a guy like kanter more than harden was asking for? (That alone should make durant question how bad the team wants to win games)

They didn't pay Harden how many years ago? Now that Durant/Westbrook are about to leave, they're finally paying people? You don't see the difference? They paid a rookie extension to KD and Westy but couldn't for Jeff Green or Harden. But now that one or both might leave soon, you want to throw in that they paid a guy like Kanter?

I'm on vacation in New Orleans and drunk as AF and you still don't know what you're talking about.

eDush
02-26-2016, 10:19 AM
Whats your godfather offer for KD?

Iggy-Barnes-Ezeli-????

OR

Blake Mofukn Griffin - Austin MOFUKN Rivers

It depends on which team Durant wants to go to, not which offer OKC deems best and ask him to go there during the off season :laugh2:

Btw Chronz - who is that on your signature clip:confused: ...it looks like MJ but he wouldn't act like that hmm

eDush
02-26-2016, 10:29 AM
I don't think if KD were to consider the dubs it would be about getting a ring. I think t would be about wanting to go down as the best team in the history of basketball. That would be the clear objective. The thing is, are the dubs willing to make that move while already being on pace for a historical season, and would KD be wanting to chase that specific legacy? If the answer to both is yes, then they will find a way to make this happen.

Not when you never ever won a championship ring before. Once you get it, then you think about winning one in your hometown, then you think about your legacy. Melo is still waiting to get his first ring which is fleeting which many great players NEVER won the big one. Kobe could have won more with Shaq so it has nothing to do with being on a dynasty team. So Durant first order is to get his ring above all else, then he will go back to the District of Columbia to try to win one at home like Lebron is doing now. He is not thinking about being on the greatest team which is reserve for role and bench players on that roster to brag, trust me on this :nod:

Go Warriors! :flag:

likemystylez
02-26-2016, 11:00 AM
[
QUOTE=Saddletramp;30760478]As soon as LeBron left, that same team (sans LeBron) was the worst team in the league and got the next 3 out of 4 number one draft picks. You don't know what you're talking about.


That team with lebron james is at the same level or better than OKC currently is with Durant.

People act like lebron left a horrible situation in cleveland and durant is in such a great situation now.

Why are you babbling about what happened after lebron james left???


They didn't pay Harden how many years ago? Now that Durant/Westbrook are about to leave, they're finally paying people? You don't see the difference? They paid a rookie extension to KD and Westy but couldn't for Jeff Green or Harden. But now that one or both might leave soon, you want to throw in that they paid a guy like Kanter?

I'm on vacation in New Orleans and drunk as AF and you still don't know what you're talking about.[/QUOTE]

SO wait- you make an even better point than I was making.

THE OKC ownership is willing to spend money when they might lose stars, but they arent willing to spend money on a trio that many think would have a couple championships right now?

I compare kanter to harden because- one of the big arguments is that they didnt want to pay harden that kind of money because he was their 6th man. HARDEN WAS WAYYYYY WAYYY WAYYY MORE PROVEN than kanter and they had no problem paying kanter that money to come off the bench.

Maybe durant leaving okc will help them spend more money on players in the future LOL

eDush
02-26-2016, 05:09 PM
[[QUOTE]QUOTE=Saddletramp;30760478]
I compare kanter to harden because- one of the big arguments is that they didnt want to pay harden that kind of money because he was their 6th man. HARDEN WAS WAYYYYY WAYYY WAYYY MORE PROVEN than kanter and they had no problem paying kanter that money to come off the bench.
...the Beard is a superstar, Kanter is a role player and will not get anywhere close to the max from any team. Stupid comparison.

We all saw what the beard did last night after his team was down 21 points against the team that beaten the Warriors not long ago. The Bread started stirring the pot in the 4th quarter to win the game 119 - 105 scoring over Lillard like a rag doll :eek:

I know the Warriors don't want to face the Rockets in the first round if they going to start stirring he pot on us :(

likemystylez
02-26-2016, 05:37 PM
[QUOTE=likemystylez;30760692][...the Beard is a superstar, Kanter is a role player and will not get anywhere close to the max from any team. Stupid comparison.

We all saw what the beard did last night after his team was down 21 points against the team that beaten the Warriors not long ago. The Bread started stirring the pot in the 4th quarter to win the game 119 - 105 scoring over Lillard like a rag doll :eek:

I know the Warriors don't want to face the Rockets in the first round if they going to start stirring he pot on us :(

Ummmm.... wow

ok where to start. The whole point of my post was that I wouldn't trust OKC to build a championship team ... and I referenced they let harden go for nothing because they didn't want to pay him. Then they turn around and pay someone like kanter more than harden was asking for.

If I were KD- id feel better trusting the warriors to build a championship team than okc. If my goal was to win a championship- warriors are a step up

Saddletramp
02-26-2016, 06:42 PM
That team with lebron james is at the same level or better than OKC currently is with Durant.

People act like lebron left a horrible situation in cleveland and durant is in such a great situation now.

Wow. Not even close. LeBron didn't have an Ibaka, let alone a Russell friggin' Westbrook.


Why are you babbling about what happened after lebron james left???

To show how bad that Cleveland team was without LBJ. Duh? Last year OKC barely missed the playoffs without Durant in the torrid West with Westbrook missing significant time. Cleveland turned into the worst team in the league for multiple years.


SO wait- you make an even better point than I was making.

THE OKC ownership is willing to spend money when they might lose stars, but they arent willing to spend money on a trio that many think would have a couple championships right now?

I compare kanter to harden because- one of the big arguments is that they didnt want to pay harden that kind of money because he was their 6th man. HARDEN WAS WAYYYYY WAYYY WAYYY MORE PROVEN than kanter and they had no problem paying kanter that money to come off the bench.

Maybe durant leaving okc will help them spend more money on players in the future LOL

You still don't know what you're talking about. Perkins is gone now so that's what the Kanter money is replacing. Plus, the cap has went up.

If Durant and Westbrook leave, OKC will be crushed and it will set back that franchise years. They won't be Cavs 2011 bad but they won't be a playoff team for sure. They did not think that Harden would be as valuable as he has become, or else they would have never have let him leave.

End of the day, the OKC brass is crapping nickels right now.


Learn how to quote. Also, why am I wasting my time with you?

likemystylez
02-26-2016, 07:04 PM
Wow. Not even close. LeBron didn't have an Ibaka, let alone a Russell friggin' Westbrook.



To show how bad that Cleveland team was without LBJ. Duh? Last year OKC barely missed the playoffs without Durant in the torrid West with Westbrook missing significant time. Cleveland turned into the worst team in the league for multiple years.



You still don't know what you're talking about. Perkins is gone now so that's what the Kanter money is replacing. Plus, the cap has went up.

If Durant and Westbrook leave, OKC will be crushed and it will set back that franchise years. They won't be Cavs 2011 bad but they won't be a playoff team for sure. They did not think that Harden would be as valuable as he has become, or else they would have never have let him leave.

End of the day, the OKC brass is crapping nickels right now.


Learn how to quote. Also, why am I wasting my time with you?


LMAO- you went out of your way to respond to me responding to a completely different poster to try and entice me to respond to you. I bit the bait.

MAke up all the excuses you want about why they let harden go and used more money to pay a lesser bench player in kanter. at the end of the day they are sitting there with no rings and none in the near future unless golden state implodes.

If durants number one priority is winning a championship, the warriors make sense. if inning it all isn't what hes interested in most- warriors prob don't want him anyway

mngopher35
02-26-2016, 08:05 PM
LMAO- you went out of your way to respond to me responding to a completely different poster to try and entice me to respond to you. I bit the bait.

MAke up all the excuses you want about why they let harden go and used more money to pay a lesser bench player in kanter. at the end of the day they are sitting there with no rings and none in the near future unless golden state implodes.

If durants number one priority is winning a championship, the warriors make sense. if inning it all isn't what hes interested in most- warriors prob don't want him anyway

I don't think many people disagree that if he wants to win GS makes the most sense. It is the comparison of his teammates like Westy/Ibaka and role players like Kanter/Adams/mix of guards now Foye to the likes of Mo Williams and Andy V and better role players like Jamison/Parker/old Shaq/bigZ/Hickson. Yes they were able to win in the regular season playing off Lebron (Westbrook actually does more creating than Durant for OKC) but when defenses tightened on them at all in the playoffs they couldn't handle it nor could they play defense against Dwight.

How many times was Lebron outplayed by a teammate in the playoffs in Cleveland (or at least debatable)? That happened the last time Durant made it to the post season. How many times were one of Lebrons teammates in the MVP discussion? Westbrook right now is 4th on the MVP ladder after finishing there last year (and the season following 2012 finals Westy/Harden and Durant were all top 10 in votes). How many times did Lebron have a teammate top 5 in DPOY voting? Ibaka has done it multiple times. Has Durant had a playoffs where the top 5 in minutes didn't reach a 15 PER in the post season? That happened in both years you reference for Cleveland.

Durant has clearly been surrounded by more talent in OKC than the first stint for Lebron in Cleveland. It really isn't that close. In my last post which you ignored I asked would you trade Mo/Andy V/Jamison (33) for Westbrook? Easy answer and teams certainly would "gut" that group for a player like Westy, they just didn't have good enough players to get that type of value back.

mngopher35
02-26-2016, 08:19 PM
I will however say that you are correct okc has made poor decisions the biggest one being harden. That doesn't make them the same situation though because Cleveland also lacked top level talent which okc does not despite those decisions.

eDush
02-26-2016, 09:55 PM
^^^ the Cavs was willing to go over the lux tax threshold to pay super max to Lebron, Kyrie, Love, and pay close to max to TT while OKC would not want to touch the tax even barely which would not even happen if they had sign the Bread unless they kept the same roster thru the following trade deadline. Any team that is scared to pay tax don't deserve to compete for a championship since all they care about is $$$ :(

I'm sure Stylez agrees with me there :nod:

Saddletramp
02-27-2016, 02:46 AM
LMAO- you went out of your way to respond to me responding to a completely different poster to try and entice me to respond to you. I bit the bait.

MAke up all the excuses you want about why they let harden go and used more money to pay a lesser bench player in kanter. at the end of the day they are sitting there with no rings and none in the near future unless golden state implodes.

If durants number one priority is winning a championship, the warriors make sense. if inning it all isn't what hes interested in most- warriors prob don't want him anyway

Bolded: You were wrong. Like, really, really wrong. And multiple people called you out on it. Didn't know it was a private conversation. But yeah, most things you said were awful and wrong.

Non-Bolded: Gopher addressed it.

IKnowHoops
02-27-2016, 02:52 AM
they didnt trade harden for kanter.


but on to the point. no clevland dint have guys like harden. but the cavs were trying to bring in talent. they failed, but they were trying. iod rather have a team trying to do right and fail, than have to rely on ownership that is throwing away mvp talent to save money then turning around and spending more money on a guy like kanter

No I agree with your opinion on the front offices of both franchise. My only point was...that cleveland team without Lebron was definitely trash...not a playoff team...bottom 5 teams in the league easily...50/50 they are the worst team in the NBA without Bron.

IKnowHoops
02-27-2016, 03:02 AM
I don't think if KD were to consider the dubs it would be about getting a ring. I think t would be about wanting to go down as the best team in the history of basketball. That would be the clear objective. The thing is, are the dubs willing to make that move while already being on pace for a historical season, and would KD be wanting to chase that specific legacy? If the answer to both is yes, then they will find a way to make this happen.

All of this.

This is why I think it should be done. They can do something that has never been done. They can become the clear cut best team ever. Thats better than simply winning the chip. As a GM I have to take the gamble knowing I'm not loosing Curry, Klay, or Green. I try to keep Iggy for defense and Livingston for his height mismatch he gives all the other PG's and then if I can still add Durant to that, I do it with no hesitation every time.

Chronz
02-27-2016, 04:05 AM
This would go above and beyond ring chasing.

Chronz
02-27-2016, 04:07 AM
[QUOTE=eDush;30761495]

Ummmm.... wow

ok where to start. The whole point of my post was that I wouldn't trust OKC to build a championship team ... and I referenced they let harden go for nothing because they didn't want to pay him. Then they turn around and pay someone like kanter more than harden was asking for.

If I were KD- id feel better trusting the warriors to build a championship team than okc. If my goal was to win a championship- warriors are a step up

Its not just about winning a chip for some guys, its about establishing something new and your own. Piggy backing off the team thats already won without you, is currently doing things that have never been matched and sport a plethora of talent as is, and hopping on would not help Durants legacy much. Like when Tmac forced his way out of Orlando, sure he could've gone to San Antonio, frankly they could have really used him but he chose Houston in part for the challenge. Sure there was Yao, but the team was in shambles for years.

likemystylez
02-27-2016, 08:58 AM
Bolded: You were wrong. Like, really, really wrong. And multiple people called you out on it. Didn't know it was a private conversation. But yeah, most things you said were awful and wrong.

Non-Bolded: Gopher addressed it.

not really that wrong, Lebron with that cavs team had back to back 60 win seasons. They didnt win a championship but that tea (with lebron was a very good team). IMO that team with lebron was comparable to OKC with Durant.

You started going off on a tangent on the team without lebron. But if the teams are comparable with lebron and with durant, and the piecves other than lebron and durant are far better on OKC than those cavs team.... that just means lebron > Durant to about the same level that the rest of the okc roster is > than the cavs team.

That cavs team had about as much chance of winning a championship as this current okc team..... oh yeah and there is the chance that westbrook leaves next summer and durant is sitting there with Paybe, Singler, Kanter and mitch mcgary.

But Hey Durant shoulnt mind that situation. he wont ever win a championship but he will still have ownerships list of excuses for letting 2 of the top 5 players in the league go for nothing. Some of those excuses may even be valid. That should help his legacy!

valade16
02-27-2016, 09:58 AM
I don't think winning a title when you haven't won one is ever going to hurt a players legacy, it just depends on how much it helps it.

likemystylez
02-27-2016, 10:08 AM
I don't think winning a title when you haven't won one is ever going to hurt a players legacy, it just depends on how much it helps it.

pretty much this.

people who say its such a horrible idea are just haters. they are use to seeing the warriors at the bottom of the standings and they dont want to see change.

as a lifelong warriors fan, I for one am tired of the mikki moore type free agent signings, its about time the warriors got some quality players via free agency

BKLYNpigeon
02-27-2016, 10:20 AM
Clyde Drexler went to Houston to win Championships. We don't discredit him or the championship any less. He's one of the top 50 players in the NBA and everyone still holds him a very high regard.

Drexler played 12 seasons with Portland before leaving to Houston.

This is currently the 9th season for Durant on OKC. I don't know how much more he can do.



Id rather be like Drexler then have my career end up like T-Mac.

Saddletramp
02-27-2016, 01:33 PM
I see stylez still doesn't understand the difference between the LeBron and Durant situations. Whatever. Waste of time.


Clyde Drexler went to Houston to win Championships. We don't discredit him or the championship any less. He's one of the top 50 players in the NBA and everyone still holds him a very high regard.

Drexler played 12 seasons with Portland before leaving to Houston.

This is currently the 9th season for Durant on OKC. I don't know how much more he can do.



Id rather be like Drexler then have my career end up like T-Mac.

Drexler's situation was similar to Durant's but not as much as you'd think. Porrland's window was pretty much closed by then and the Blazers traded to get something for him (plus he asked for it and wasn't jerking anyone around like players always do these days). Although Houston had just won a title the previous year, with Jordan gone the league was still pretty much wide open; not 30 team wide open but nobody was Warrior dominating. Durant would also be going to the Warrior dominating team. It would be more like if Drexler left to go to the Bulls the year before Jordan took his sabbatical.

Drexler also has ties to Houston (high school and college), KD doesn't to the Bay Area. And KD is above Drexler in all time rankings and is only going to go further. And at the time of the team changes, KD is still prime, Drexler was on the other side.

Drexler proved he couldn't be the #1 to get a championship. If Durant signs with the Warriors it'll be a ring chasing move. If he doesn't win one by the time his next contract is up, it's one thing but if he signs with the Warriors this offseason, he's proving that he doesn't think he can lead a team to a title. It's the whole "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" thing.

Drexler's legacy took a bit of a hit (although I'm not sure the Rockets win the second championship without him). KD would definitely especially since it doesn't look like the Warriors need him. He's just be a latcher. Latchers get less respect.

mngopher35
02-27-2016, 02:20 PM
I see stylez still doesn't understand the difference between the LeBron and Durant situations. Whatever. Waste of time.


I'll gladly take over the debate with Stylez on the topic if he wants to respond to me quoting him.

Scoots
02-27-2016, 03:04 PM
I will however say that you are correct okc has made poor decisions the biggest one being harden. That doesn't make them the same situation though because Cleveland also lacked top level talent which okc does not despite those decisions.

I'm not sure they did make a poor decision in letting Harden go. This version of Harden would make the Thunder more talented, but his lack of D and need for the ball might have made the whole thing not work any better than it does now when they are starting their best defensive SG since they don't need the offense but do need the D.

mngopher35
02-27-2016, 03:19 PM
I will however say that you are correct okc has made poor decisions the biggest one being harden. That doesn't make them the same situation though because Cleveland also lacked top level talent which okc does not despite those decisions.

I'm not sure they did make a poor decision in letting Harden go. This version of Harden would make the Thunder more talented, but his lack of D and need for the ball might have made the whole thing not work any better than it does now when they are starting their best defensive SG since they don't need the offense but do need the D.

Kanter hurts their defense more than harden would though. That's part of why it has dropped recently and he definitely isn't as good offensively. Guard defense is much easier to cover up than big man defense (their current biggest issue is also sg). On top of this even in 2012 with harden and before Ibaka was at his peak (even durant and westy have improved) they had the 11 drtg in the league (currently 14 despite those improvements). The amount harden hurts a team on that end really gets overstated around here.

Adding harden and rounding out the rest with defense would have been a better team. Even if we still disagree harden would have gotten more in return via trade at a later time anyway. It was most definitely a mistake to let him go.

Chronz
02-27-2016, 03:20 PM
not really that wrong, Lebron with that cavs team had back to back 60 win seasons. They didnt win a championship but that tea (with lebron was a very good team). IMO that team with lebron was comparable to OKC with Durant.
Not even close. You're talking about a team with depth vs a team with star power galore. That team with depth could survive the loss of any role player because they had the ultimate swiss army knife at their disposal but if they went without Bron to cover any mistakes, well, we saw how quickly they floundered. Without Bron, those Cavs teams are lottery bound and fighting for the #1 pick. At best they fall out of the bottom 3. Whereas those Thunder could actually go .500 IN THE WEST with both Durant AND Westbrook missing heavy time. I mean you're talking about a team that could make the Finals lacking star power but couldn't win a single game in the 7 Bron missed. I know thats such a small sample size but look at that squad, they relied on Bron for everything.

BKLYNpigeon
02-27-2016, 03:22 PM
I see stylez still doesn't understand the difference between the LeBron and Durant situations. Whatever. Waste of time.



Drexler's situation was similar to Durant's but not as much as you'd think. Porrland's window was pretty much closed by then and the Blazers traded to get something for him (plus he asked for it and wasn't jerking anyone around like players always do these days). Although Houston had just won a title the previous year, with Jordan gone the league was still pretty much wide open; not 30 team wide open but nobody was Warrior dominating. Durant would also be going to the Warrior dominating team. It would be more like if Drexler left to go to the Bulls the year before Jordan took his sabbatical.

Drexler also has ties to Houston (high school and college), KD doesn't to the Bay Area. And KD is above Drexler in all time rankings and is only going to go further. And at the time of the team changes, KD is still prime, Drexler was on the other side.

Drexler proved he couldn't be the #1 to get a championship. If Durant signs with the Warriors it'll be a ring chasing move. If he doesn't win one by the time his next contract is up, it's one thing but if he signs with the Warriors this offseason, he's proving that he doesn't think he can lead a team to a title. It's the whole "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" thing.

Drexler's legacy took a bit of a hit (although I'm not sure the Rockets win the second championship without him). KD would definitely especially since it doesn't look like the Warriors need him. He's just be a latcher. Latchers get less respect.


Its a tough Situation in OKC, if Durant has inside knowledge that Westbrook is leaving, he should leave as well. That wind would be closing because of Free Agency.

You don't need a connection to a city to make it justifiable. Its all about fit.

If Durant thinks that no team he joins or forms is going to beat the Warriors in the next 3 years; Why waste that time and last 3 years of your prime playing for nothing. Join the Warriors, carve out a role and be a Dynasty.

likemystylez
02-27-2016, 03:28 PM
Not even close. You're talking about a team with depth vs a team with star power galore. That team with depth could survive the loss of any role player because they had the ultimate swiss army knife at their disposal but if they went without Bron to cover any mistakes, well, we saw how quickly they floundered. Without Bron, those Cavs teams are lottery bound and fighting for the #1 pick. At best they fall out of the bottom 3. Whereas those Thunder could actually go .500 IN THE WEST with both Durant AND Westbrook missing heavy time. I mean you're talking about a team that could make the Finals lacking star power but couldn't win a single game in the 7 Bron missed. I know thats such a small sample size but look at that squad, they relied on Bron for everything.

Ok you seem to really be focused on the cavs without lebron. I could not have been more that i was referring to the cavs with lebron james. Im not sure how it could have been overlooked when I said "with lebron" literally in every sentence.

One more time- That cavs team WITH LEBRON JAMES had back to back 60 win seasons. IMO they had a similar chance to win a championship as the current OKC team with durant.

I understand that Durant has a better supporting cast. However LEBRON WAS a lot better than durant.... so again their teams with lebron and with durant were comparable

valade16
02-27-2016, 03:30 PM
Clyde Drexler went to Houston to win Championships. We don't discredit him or the championship any less. He's one of the top 50 players in the NBA and everyone still holds him a very high regard.

Drexler played 12 seasons with Portland before leaving to Houston.

This is currently the 9th season for Durant on OKC. I don't know how much more he can do.

Id rather be like Drexler then have my career end up like T-Mac.

As someone said it's not an identical comparison but I think you nailed the last part. Clyde is thought of way more favorably in an all-time sense than T-Mac yet if you narrowed it down to just how good they were it would be a lot closer comparison.

Obviously the ring vastly helped Clyde's legacy to finally win one, and he went to a team that had just come off a championship.

likemystylez
02-27-2016, 03:30 PM
I'm not sure they did make a poor decision in letting Harden go. This version of Harden would make the Thunder more talented, but his lack of D and need for the ball might have made the whole thing not work any better than it does now when they are starting their best defensive SG since they don't need the offense but do need the D.

If you let a guy like harden go (second runner up for mvp last year) and a lot of people said he should have won it. Its kinda laughable right now. If you let a guy like james harden go, even if you believe he isnt right for your team. Good management gets something more for that level of talent in return.

Chronz
02-27-2016, 03:33 PM
Clyde Drexler went to Houston to win Championships. We don't discredit him or the championship any less. He's one of the top 50 players in the NBA and everyone still holds him a very high regard.
He would STILL be held in very high regard either way, whats your point with this vagueness? Clyde's run was underrated IMO, not many people really put it in high regard from what I've seen. Clyde went to a team that was falling apart tho, he resurrected them. What Durant would be doing would be unprecedented, again, hes joining a team that is doing historical **** without him. Houston was struggling to find the magic from last years squad, it wasn't anything close to resembling this power house we have in the Dubs.

And why do you guys use the word discredit? Ummm, it would help if you guys quoted people but assuming you're talking about me, I said the ring wont do much to help his legacy if it comes with such cowardice.


Drexler played 12 seasons with Portland before leaving to Houston.
Yup?


This is currently the 9th season for Durant on OKC. I don't know how much more he can do.

Then leave and make a power of your own, find an organization that needs the lift and you trust has the pieces necessary to compete with the powers of the time. Thats what every other superstar has done, I honestly cant remember a single moment when a star decides to join the very team that has already dominated the basketball world in ways that we've never seen. Rings always add to a players legacy, it just wouldn't add much.



Id rather be like Drexler then have my career end up like T-Mac.
Its funny cuz both Tmac and Drexler joined the same team and both joined a team they could potentially put over the top.
Anyways, this makes no sense, is KD in danger of scoliosis or something? Better hope he doesn't break his leg again because if that happens, guess what, being like Tmac means it doesn't matter which team you join, your career as a star is already over. Being like Drexler would mean you stay healthy and watch as you never win a F.MVP.

Scoots
02-27-2016, 03:39 PM
If you let a guy like harden go (second runner up for mvp last year) and a lot of people said he should have won it. Its kinda laughable right now. If you let a guy like james harden go, even if you believe he isnt right for your team. Good management gets something more for that level of talent in return.
I intentionally didn't address what they got for him, i was just talking about the idea of Harden being off the team not necessarily being bad in itself.

Chronz
02-27-2016, 03:46 PM
Ok you seem to really be focused on the cavs without lebron. I could not have been more that i was referring to the cavs with lebron james. Im not sure how it could have been overlooked when I said "with lebron" literally in every sentence.
I know what you said, establishing a players talent base is important when determining their support. Its not all that matters but its important. Also, Bron cant play the full 48 for that team. You eventually have to play without Bron and when they do, thats when the lack of talent, particularly come playoffs comes into play. The workload for Bron gets heavier come playoffs.


One more time- That cavs team WITH LEBRON JAMES had back to back 60 win seasons. IMO they had a similar chance to win a championship as the current OKC team with durant.
They were EASILY the least talented team to ever win as much as they did, a testament to their depth and Brons motor. Sadly, come playoffs, teams run shorter rotations so whatever advantage you had by running above average players all game is gone. Not only that but you had to deal with a negligent coach and a plethora of injuries.

Lemme ask you this, do you think those Cavs teams had as much of a shot to win a championship as Brons teams in Miami? If so, we will simply have to agree to disagree because you simply dont understand the importance of talent come playoffs. If the answer is no, then you should see why citing their superior win tally is such hallow analysis. Shouldn't we dig deeper, into the actual ability of his performing cast. I mean, his 2nd best player was a notorious playoff choker, why is that so impressive to you when KD gets to play with an MVP caliber player? Keep in mind alot of **** went wrong with those Miami teams given Wade and Bosh's injuries and they still came away with B2B chips, in Cleveland, everything had to go right for them to even have a chance. There is no possible way Durant has as low odds of winning as Bron had in Cleveland back then, none.



I understand that Durant has a better supporting cast. However LEBRON WAS a lot better than durant.... so again their teams with lebron and with durant were comparable
No he wasn't ALOT better, and the difference in supporting cast is greater come playoffs.

Chronz
02-27-2016, 03:53 PM
I don't think winning a title when you haven't won one is ever going to hurt a players legacy, it just depends on how much it helps it.

Like I said, in this situation, "Not much".

likemystylez
02-27-2016, 03:57 PM
I intentionally didn't address what they got for him, i was just talking about the idea of Harden being off the team not necessarily being bad in itself.

Ummm well thats kind of ridiculous isnt it?. You have to take into consideration what a team gets in return on a trade or like 90% of non salary dump trades are questionable

Scoots
02-27-2016, 04:09 PM
Ummm well thats kind of ridiculous isnt it?. You have to take into consideration what a team gets in return on a trade or like 90% of non salary dump trades are questionable
No, i really don't. The merits of the organizations decision to move harden has nothing to do with how they move him. The warriors made the right decision to move Ellis regardless of what they got for him in trade. They are separate.

likemystylez
02-27-2016, 04:17 PM
No, i really don't. The merits of the organizations decision to move harden has nothing to do with how they move him. The warriors made the right decision to move Ellis regardless of what they got for him in trade. They are separate.

I see.... well I think they were as good or better with Harden than without him.

but if you are going to get rid of a player with that type perceived value- not going out and getting a very good piece or 2 in return is not what I want to see in an organization supposedly trying to win a championship

Scoots
02-27-2016, 05:00 PM
I see.... well I think they were as good or better with Harden than without him.

but if you are going to get rid of a player with that type perceived value- not going out and getting a very good piece or 2 in return is not what I want to see in an organization supposedly trying to win a championship
Can't argue that.

BKLYNpigeon
02-27-2016, 05:46 PM
Personally, I don't want Durant on the Warriors. I also don't want to resign Barnes at a max deal. It's going to kill the warriors depth.

The money can be spent wisely elsewhere.

Knick bag
02-27-2016, 06:09 PM
I just don't see KD going to join the leagues best team to get a ring. Everybody wants to win but I get the impression KD wants to beat the man to be the man (Rick Flair voice). Joining GS is like using a cheat code on PS4.

TDE
02-27-2016, 07:45 PM
Durant
Steph
Green
Thompson

That would destroy Lebron's chance from ever winning a championship for Cavs. so I don't want that to happened.

TDE
02-27-2016, 07:46 PM
I just don't see KD going to join the leagues best team to get a ring. Everybody wants to win but I get the impression KD wants to beat the man to be the man (Rick Flair voice). Joining GS is like using a cheat code on PS4.
Lebron did it in the East, and u don't see him getting any flack over it now.

Chronz
02-27-2016, 08:16 PM
Lebron did it in the East, and u don't see him getting any flack over it now.

When did he ever join a team that had already won and was currently dominating the league in ways we've never seen before, all this without him. If he joins a ready made championship team it would be truly unprecedented

True Sports Fan
02-27-2016, 08:41 PM
This KD vs. LeBron argument is hilarious.

KD had a better team easily then LeBron did when he left

Also, it's not 100% certain the move would be effortless. It's hard transitioning into a different role sometimes. I'm sure they'd be rolling after a while but the 82-0 claim is ridiculous

TDE
02-27-2016, 08:42 PM
When did he ever join a team that had already won and was currently dominating the league in ways we've never seen before, all this without him. If he joins a ready made championship team it would be truly unprecedented

He did join two other All-star players that pretty much guaranteed them a championship, so much so that he thought he could even win 7 championships. Also Durant won't be joining the same team that won it. They will start over with the same core players. But the team would look different.

Chronz
02-27-2016, 09:32 PM
He did join two other All-star players that pretty much guaranteed them a championship, so much so that he thought he could even win 7 championships.

No it didn't guarantee anything (As they lost twice), and he said that to hype up his fan base. If we are taking Bron at face value regardless of context then we can bring up how he said it would be alot of hard work and all that. Maybe Bron did think he could have a team like GS does now but he went out and created it, he saw how Boston and LA were winning with immense talent and he got himself some horses to battle it out. He didn't simply join the Lakers and piggyback off their success.

TDE
02-27-2016, 10:03 PM
Bro, every one knew they were going to win a championship. It's going to happen if your the best player in the league and you join a top 3 and top 10 player.

Chronz
02-27-2016, 10:48 PM
Bro, every one knew they were going to win a championship. It's going to happen if your the best player in the league and you join a top 3 and top 10 player.
Eventually yes but they were close to only winning1 and even that one could've been detailed due to injuries so it's never a guarantee. I disagree with your classification of Wade and Bosh too.

Either way, still a far different comparison.

eDush
02-27-2016, 10:57 PM
He did join two other All-star players that pretty much guaranteed them a championship, so much so that he thought he could even win 7 championships.

No it didn't guarantee anything (As they lost twice), and he said that to hype up his fan base. If we are taking Bron at face value regardless of context then we can bring up how he said it would be alot of hard work and all that. Maybe Bron did think he could have a team like GS does now but he went out and created it, he saw how Boston and LA were winning with immense talent and he got himself some horses to battle it out. He didn't simply join the Lakers and piggyback off their success.

If that's true then any superstar can create their own team too to win.

IKnowHoops
02-28-2016, 12:13 AM
He would STILL be held in very high regard either way, whats your point with this vagueness? Clyde's run was underrated IMO, not many people really put it in high regard from what I've seen. Clyde went to a team that was falling apart tho, he resurrected them. What Durant would be doing would be unprecedented, again, hes joining a team that is doing historical **** without him. Houston was struggling to find the magic from last years squad, it wasn't anything close to resembling this power house we have in the Dubs.

And why do you guys use the word discredit? Ummm, it would help if you guys quoted people but assuming you're talking about me, I said the ring wont do much to help his legacy if it comes with such cowardice.


Yup?


Then leave and make a power of your own, find an organization that needs the lift and you trust has the pieces necessary to compete with the powers of the time. Thats what every other superstar has done, I honestly cant remember a single moment when a star decides to join the very team that has already dominated the basketball world in ways that we've never seen. Rings always add to a players legacy, it just wouldn't add much.



Its funny cuz both Tmac and Drexler joined the same team and both joined a team they could potentially put over the top.
Anyways, this makes no sense, is KD in danger of scoliosis or something? Better hope he doesn't break his leg again because if that happens, guess what, being like Tmac means it doesn't matter which team you join, your career as a star is already over. Being like Drexler would mean you stay healthy and watch as you never win a F.MVP.

Kukoc?ahahahahaha, I mean he was a star. They were saying he was better than Petrovic.

IKnowHoops
02-28-2016, 12:25 AM
Durant
Steph
Green
Thompson

That would destroy Lebron's chance from ever winning a championship for Cavs. so I don't want that to happened.

See I don't think it would destroy his chances anymore than they are now. He would simply need to make some trades of his own. He'd have to somehow get Anthony Davis and Russell Westbrook, but either way, he's gonna go out and get a few people and thats the kind of NBA drama we need after what we've seen over the last 8 seasons.

IKnowHoops
02-28-2016, 12:28 AM
This KD vs. LeBron argument is hilarious.

KD had a better team easily then LeBron did when he left

Also, it's not 100% certain the move would be effortless. It's hard transitioning into a different role sometimes. I'm sure they'd be rolling after a while but the 82-0 claim is ridiculous

I put this out there totally joking around, but only that team could make the joke work.

TDE
02-28-2016, 01:44 AM
Eventually yes but they were close to only winning1 and even that one could've been detailed due to injuries so it's never a guarantee. I disagree with your classification of Wade and Bosh too.

Either way, still a far different comparison.


People just here are saying they would be worst team with Durant, so it does guarantee them anything either.

Also Wade was without Question a top 3 player in 09-10 and you could not find 10 players that year that were putting up better numbers than Bosh that year either.i hate when people try to discredit players just to prop up Lebron.

Wade was straight up posting 27/7/5 and Bosh was putting up 24/11/3.

Top 3 and 10. No question, that was the consensus then.

Scoots
03-05-2016, 12:29 PM
I heard something interesting ... the Warriors are built and driven by guys who have been doubted and with a chip on their shoulder. A description that doesn't appear to fit Durant. The Warriors NEED to win to prove they belong as individuals and as a team. Durant has belonged from day 1. Bogut and Livingston are the highest drafted players on the team and both have had to come back from "career ending" injuries and are always one play from missing time. It goes on and on all over the roster ... guys who were too small, too slow, not athletic enough, couldn't stay healthy.

Also, the Warriors only want players who make good decisions in stressful situations ... I don't know that that describes KD either.

None of the Warriors players filter their opinion through representatives or have intrusive "advisors" ... the press around the team have a very high level of access and the team encourages it. I don't know that KD would fit that model.

It would be very fun to see KD as a Warrior ... but it's not without significant risk

Gander13SM
03-05-2016, 01:12 PM
I heard something interesting ... the Warriors are built and driven by guys who have been doubted and with a chip on their shoulder. A description that doesn't appear to fit Durant. The Warriors NEED to win to prove they belong as individuals and as a team. Durant has belonged from day 1. Bogut and Livingston are the highest drafted players on the team and both have had to come back from "career ending" injuries and are always one play from missing time. It goes on and on all over the roster ... guys who were too small, too slow, not athletic enough, couldn't stay healthy.

Also, the Warriors only want players who make good decisions in stressful situations ... I don't know that that describes KD either.

None of the Warriors players filter their opinion through representatives or have intrusive "advisors" ... the press around the team have a very high level of access and the team encourages it. I don't know that KD would fit that model.

It would be very fun to see KD as a Warrior ... but it's not without significant risk

That first part absolutely does describe KD. All the "2nd best" chat. Always coming second in everything he does. He desperately wants to prove he's the greatest.

KD has a massive chip on his shoulder. Evident by the way he handles the media.

If the Warriors can retain Curry-Klay-Green-Ezeli-Livingston. I see no reason not to add Durant. When you have an opportunity to add one of the greatest players of the past 20 years onto your roster you do it.

Think of it this way. If he wanted to join San Antonio with Parker - Green - Leonard - Durant - ?

Do you think for a second they wouldn't do that?

He's a high character guy. He's not a diva like Dwight or LeBron. He's not a hot head like Westbrook or Cousins. Hes a great fit for this Dubs team.


And hey. If it doesn't work. So what? They would have the biggest trade chip in the league in KD.

And if Curry leaves for Charlotte or elsewhere, you would still have a top 3 player in the league to build around.


This is an absolute no brainer.

phantasyyy
03-05-2016, 06:03 PM
KD joining the Warriors would be similiar to say Lebron in 2010 joining the Celtics or the Lakers.. both teams at the time that were vying for a Chip every year during their runs with Celtics winning 1 and Lakers 2.

It would be adding Bron to an already proven championship team, putting them way over the top in their respective conferences/league.

Comparing the two to the actual decision of joining up with the 3 allstars is also similair due to the fact that you already knew Boston's championship window was closing and with him robbing Cleveland of top contender status it set Miami up for a Final's appearence every year(which is what they accomplished). I mean you could argue that the two they did lose - Dallas/Spurs were just years that anybody emerging from the East would have lost. 2011 was the year of Dirk, with that Dallas squad just smashing everybody on route to their first championship, and playing Miami 5 years after the previous finals matchup that was robbed from them was just the icing on he cake.

In 2014 - there really isnt no explanation needed with the Spurs on a vengeance for their 2013 collapse and that team displaying the best teamwork to end that mini-dynasty

phantasyyy
03-05-2016, 06:11 PM
I'd love for the Spurs to get KD... haha i'd love to for Pop to get to coach another once in a generation type of player in Durant - no offense to Kawhi-he is great in his own right, but imagine a line-up featuring Kawhi and KD and Aldridge?

eDush
03-05-2016, 06:53 PM
I'd love for the Spurs to get KD... haha i'd love to for Pop to get to coach another once in a generation type of player in Durant - no offense to Kawhi-he is great in his own right, but imagine a line-up featuring Kawhi and KD and Aldridge? you can't have a lineup with both Kawhi and KD as they play the same position yet you still bring up his name. Pop don't want him on his club anyways he prefer Kawhi:nod:

Gander13SM
03-05-2016, 06:58 PM
you can't have a lineup with both Kawhi and KD as they play the same position yet you still bring up his name. Pop don't want him on his club anyways he prefer Kawhi:nod:

KD Is more than capable of being a 4 in today's league if there's a solid defensive C beside him.

eDush
03-05-2016, 07:53 PM
you can't have a lineup with both Kawhi and KD as they play the same position yet you still bring up his name. Pop don't want him on his club anyways he prefer Kawhi:nod:

KD Is more than capable of being a 4 in today's league if there's a solid defensive C beside him.

Then you can't use Aldridge so I win again. LA was told he will KOT have to play the 5 nor will he make a good one which mean you either need to trade him or Kawhi depending on where you want to use KD. I doubt any of them will want to come off he bench cause they are too good to. I win again :(

eDush
03-05-2016, 07:55 PM
If the Warriors gets him....they will trade Barnes. See how easy that is :clap:

Gander13SM
03-06-2016, 06:04 AM
Then you can't use Aldridge so I win again. LA was told he will KOT have to play the 5 nor will he make a good one which mean you either need to trade him or Kawhi depending on where you want to use KD. I doubt any of them will want to come off he bench cause they are too good to. I win again :(

Lmao what age are you? You sound like a child.

Again, nobody is saying this will happen. Stop panicking. Lmao. I've never seen anyone panic and get so defensive over a hypothetical. "What? NO THEY CAN ONLY SIGN WITH US THEY CANT SIGN WITH ANYONE OMG STOP IT STOP SAYING THESE THINGS!!!! I WIN I WIN I WIN IT CANT HAPPEN"

You sound like a 12 year old.

I know the Warriors fans want their team to be the Spurs really bad. Always have. They loved the way they moved the ball, loved their coach. And now they love that their team is playing similar and having the same level of success. Who can blame them. They're infatuated with them. Which is why I tried to make Warriors fans understand if the Spurs would take the risk of signing him, the Warriors should too.

Gander13SM
03-06-2016, 06:07 AM
If the Warriors gets him....they will trade Barnes. See how easy that is :clap:

They will need to do more than that. Barnes is a free agent. They can't trade him unless they sign and trade. They would need to let Barnes walk and trade either Bogut or Iguodala (or use stretch prov on Bogut and trade Dre) and one of their higher earning bench guys.

It's not a simple move to make. They would need to make a lot of moves to get it to work.

Chronz
03-06-2016, 06:21 PM
People just here are saying they would be worst team with Durant, so it does guarantee them anything either.
Thats absurd, if thats true then he stands even less to gain in victory, I just dont see any motivation to join. And you can continue trying to spin this as a similar situation but if the core unit has ALREADY WON a chip without you, is doing historic things without you, and you somehow make them worse, then thats a hollow victory.
I honestly dont see him making them worse but even if he does, you're not going from HISTORICALLY GREAT to something other than a favorite. Miami wasn't that stacked, the team had serious holes up and down the rest of the roster and had problems with meshing.


Also Wade was without Question a top 3 player in 09-10 and you could not find 10 players that year that were putting up better numbers than Bosh that year either.i hate when people try to discredit players just to prop up Lebron.
Both were on the decline, Bosh wasn't a top-10 guy. Acknowledging hat he put up big numbers in a contract year on a team he quit on while playing a style he admitted to abandoning to preserve his health isn't discrediting him, thems just the facts.


Wade was straight up posting 27/7/5 and Bosh was putting up 24/11/3.

Top 3 and 10. No question, that was the consensus then.
Wade was for a year, but he was also on the decline, had health problems of his own and shared an overlapping skillset with Bron, not exactly the perfect match.

Bosh put up superficially high numbers(high rebounding next to Bargnani/**** defense etc.) and he also preserved his body over fighting for a playoff spot so you're insane if you think he was top-10. And again, neither had done anything in years before the union and they sought to take out the prevailing powers that had trampled their teams.

Scoots
03-08-2016, 11:08 AM
Lmao what age are you? You sound like a child.

Again, nobody is saying this will happen. Stop panicking. Lmao. I've never seen anyone panic and get so defensive over a hypothetical. "What? NO THEY CAN ONLY SIGN WITH US THEY CANT SIGN WITH ANYONE OMG STOP IT STOP SAYING THESE THINGS!!!! I WIN I WIN I WIN IT CANT HAPPEN"

You sound like a 12 year old.

I know the Warriors fans want their team to be the Spurs really bad. Always have. They loved the way they moved the ball, loved their coach. And now they love that their team is playing similar and having the same level of success. Who can blame them. They're infatuated with them. Which is why I tried to make Warriors fans understand if the Spurs would take the risk of signing him, the Warriors should too.

Please don't lump all Warriors fans in with eDush. :)

MILLERHIGHLIFE
03-09-2016, 09:46 AM
It's possible to land Durant if he wants to go there. But wont be same team after they do all this to get him.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/how-the-warriors-can-afford-to-sign-kevin-durant-043710075.html

Trade Iggy. Stretch provision Bogut and Thompson. Withdraw qualifying offer to Barnes and renounce him. Renounce the cap holds on Mareesse Speights, Leandro Barbosa, Brandon Rush, James McAdoo, Ian Clark, Jermaine O’Neal and Ognen Kuzmic would free up $17 million in cap space. Also all this has to be done prior to signing him. So would have to be some under the table agreement.

Cause if Warriors did all this and Durant had change of heart and stayed with Thunder. Warriors be gutted out. Also even if all this was done and Durant signed. This team would take some time to gel. Also article mentions Ezeli could get more then his caphold on open market. So not sure if he stays in the deal or not.

Scoots
03-09-2016, 10:00 AM
It's possible to land Durant if he wants to go there. But wont be same team after they do all this to get him.

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/how-the-warriors-can-afford-to-sign-kevin-durant-043710075.html

Trade Iggy. Stretch provision Bogut and Thompson. Withdraw qualifying offer to Barnes and renounce him. Renounce the cap holds on Mareesse Speights, Leandro Barbosa, Brandon Rush, James McAdoo, Ian Clark, Jermaine O’Neal and Ognen Kuzmic would free up $17 million in cap space. Also all this has to be done prior to signing him. So would have to be some under the table agreement.

Cause if Warriors did all this and Durant had change of heart and stayed with Thunder. Warriors be gutted out. Also even if all this was done and Durant signed. This team would take some time to gel. Also article mentions Ezeli could get more then his caphold on open market. So not sure if he stays in the deal or not.

1. Tough for them to stretch Thompson since he's not a Warrior anymore ... I don't think you can stretch a player already cut ... or maybe they already stretched him?

2. The Warriors wouldn't do any of that without Durant fully on board, and if Durant is on board then theoretically he would be on board to win rather than for max money and the roster changes might not be so drastic.

3. Losing Clark, McAdoo, Rush, O'Neal, and Kuzmic is essentially nothing ... Speights is not losing much.

4. Barnes isn't needed with Durant.

5. I hate the idea of losing Bogut and Iguodala but they are getting older quickly and won't be good enough much longer. But replacing what they do for this team will not be easy.