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View Full Version : Is LeBron coasting a little or beginning an actual decline?



sheesh
02-20-2016, 02:34 PM
It seems like LeBron is still too young to be actually declining noticeably using the eyetest, but it seems like he is.

To me his middle two seasons in Miami was his peak as a player. Also in his last two seasons at Cleveland before the decision he was dominant too, but not quite as much IMO. He's not finishing at the rim as well. His post effectiveness seems to be dropping. He's not controlling the pace of the game as well. He also basically cannot dunk from the halfcourt anymore.

But his most noticeable decline is his defense. He used to be a dominant defensive player especially in Miami. He smothered people the whole year and into the playoffs. He's not doing that anymore.

Which makes me conclude that he's either preserving for the playoffs at this point in his career. Or he isn't capable of the sustained defensive effort anymore game after game.

jerellh528
02-20-2016, 02:39 PM
Just coasting obvi. He's a top 3 goat, can play pg better than cp3, can guard all 5 positions sustained at an elite level, and if he tried could average a triple double. His last finals performance was the best of all time, I'm pretty certain he's just coasting.

sheesh
02-20-2016, 02:45 PM
Just coasting obvi. He's a top 3 goat, can play pg better than cp3, can guard all 5 positions sustained at an elite level, and if he tried could average a triple double. His last finals performance was the best of all time, I'm pretty certain he's just coasting.

I'm thinking it's mostly coasting as well. But I do believe that his ability as a finisher is slipping.

mngopher35
02-20-2016, 02:56 PM
We do this every year and this time it is when his numbers and defense have stayed about the same or even improved since last season?

Lebron has been declining for a while athletically now and has slowly been decreasing in level of play since like 14. This happens to most/all players as they age and is especially seen in the regular seasons because a little less effort is put in on a nightly basis (aka coasting as they call it but more like proper in season management for older players imo). As was mentioned before just last year we saw Lebron have a spectacular finals where he was the best player on the court with the current best player in the league on the other side. So is he still declining like he has been for the past few years? Yes. Is this anything extreme or worrisome at this point due to some major drop off he's having? No, not quite yet but when it does it should be pretty obvious.

FraziersKnicks
02-20-2016, 03:18 PM
It's a combination of both. He doesn't need to go 110% to secure that #1 seed. But he's also not the physical athlete he was in his last Cleveland years.

His defense this season has actually been its best in the last 3 years.

Sactown
02-20-2016, 03:22 PM
Decline for sure, he's still crazy good and I'm sure he has another gear come playoff time , but how could you blame him? 5 straight finals appearances? That's a lot of extra games .

CHANGO
02-20-2016, 03:24 PM
Both.

Of course he has declined, those years in Miami were another level of play, both on defense and on offense. But he's coasting a little too. You can say this about any star player not named Westbrook or (maybe?) Curry. We saw it last season on the playoffs with him dominating and I'm sure we'll see it again on this season.

Also he's declining in terms of comparing him with his peak in Miami, but he's having a much better season this year than last year.

lamzoka
02-20-2016, 03:26 PM
Lebron is declining.

Everyone from that 2003 is declining. Some of them already washed. (D-Wade and Melo)

aman_13
02-20-2016, 04:09 PM
He's still putting up elite numbers.

FraziersKnicks
02-20-2016, 04:14 PM
He's still putting up elite numbers.

That's the crazy thing. On the decline, playing at 80% and still putting up 25/7/7 on 50% shooting for a #1 seed.

IndyRealist
02-20-2016, 04:50 PM
Once you hit 30 you can start declining physically at any time. Those years spent playing PF didn't help things either. But yeah, he's also coasting. He has the best team in the East by FAR and will likely sleepwalk to the Finals.

sheesh
02-20-2016, 04:53 PM
Both.

Of course he has declined, those years in Miami were another level of play, both on defense and on offense. But he's coasting a little too. You can say this about any star player not named Westbrook or (maybe?) Curry. We saw it last season on the playoffs with him dominating and I'm sure we'll see it again on this season.

Also he's declining in terms of comparing him with his peak in Miami, but he's having a much better season this year than last year.

That's what I was thinking about. Getting past the Spurs or the Warriors won't be easy. It would probably take a Miami type LeBron to win another title this year.

CardinalRed24
02-20-2016, 06:15 PM
I think its pretty obvious, yes, he is declining. He's 31 and has been going hard for 13 years in this league with plenty of mileage used in the regular season as well as the playoffs each year. He's a big boy with a big body frame and it's just starting to all catch up to him now. Obviously he's still a spectacular player and easily ranked in the top 5 however, his days of bruising and bullying his way to the rim constantly throughout each game are over. He knows he has to take it easy and "coast" a little bit throughout the course of a long season BC he knows his body can't handle the wear and tear like he was able to in his mid-late 20s. He's also very smart and I'm sure he looks at guys like Tim Duncan/Paul Pierce and has taken a page out of their notebook. He realizes now that he's starting to run out of time in terms of racking up the titles and he's going about his entire game differently at this point to give himself the best chance come playoff time. Yes, he has lost a little step in his game and over time he will slowly continue to wear down . He is only human. And that's simply the reality of it all.

IKnowHoops
02-20-2016, 07:05 PM
He's be declining physically since his last year in Cleveland before he went to Miami. Your physical prime is 26-27, so after those years your going to start to slow down. Lucky for him he was so far ahead of everyone physically that even at 31 he's the most gifted physical specimen in the NBA.

I don't see him having average NBA athletic ability till he's 39-40.

His long ball has been horrid since he left Miami though. He may want to think about completely tearing down and rebuilding his 3pt shot cause its awful.

Raps18-19 Champ
02-20-2016, 07:37 PM
Decline. The level he was producing at is difficult to repeat for years on end.

sheesh
02-20-2016, 08:23 PM
He's be declining physically since his last year in Cleveland before he went to Miami. Your physical prime is 26-27, so after those years your going to start to slow down. Lucky for him he was so far ahead of everyone physically that even at 31 he's the most gifted physical specimen in the NBA.

I don't see him having average NBA athletic ability till he's 39-40.

His long ball has been horrid since he left Miami though. He may want to think about completely tearing down and rebuilding his 3pt shot cause its awful.

Russell Westbrook is the most athletic player in the NBA and has been for years and still is.

Dade County
02-21-2016, 12:04 AM
He's just Le-Coning...

He will show up when the time is right. No worries Cav's fans.

Kyben36
02-21-2016, 01:11 AM
he will show up when it matters,

IKnowHoops
02-21-2016, 01:47 AM
Russell Westbrook is the most athletic player in the NBA and has been for years and still is.

Being that he is 6-2 and Bron is 6-8, and Russel is 190 and Bron is 260, I feel that the total package from a physicality standpoint is still more of an athletic mismatch for a team, making more of an athletic impact than Russell. Now I will say that the thing Russell does have over Bron is his motor. And yes he is quicker and faster than Lebron. But Lebron can still take off from farther out...by a long shot...which is what makes him athletically harder to deal with.

And just to speak to the argument I'm making, I'd argue that a simple test can be made to tell you who has the best combination of size, speed. ( I left out power cause this test will not represent that). And I think that Lebron obviously has the power advantage so if I am able to prove Lebrons combination of size and speed is superior to Westbrooks size and speed, then I think it is more than clear that Lebrons combination of size, speed and power, is superior to that of Westbrook's, making Lebron the leagues best athlete.

So the test is simple. The person who can dunk from the farthest out is the one with the superior combination of size and speed. You can probably throw leaping ability in there. Hebron can take off from farther out and its not close. And he can still make chase down blocks that show how much more athletic he is than everyone else.

Now if we just ask the question who has the best combination of speed and leaping ability. Then its Westbrook. Size and power have to be accounted for when you are talking about athletes.

LOb0
02-21-2016, 11:18 AM
I don't think he's declined a great deal athletically. His jump shot however has completely left him, thus making the game harder and making his stats drop off a bit.

kdspurman
02-21-2016, 11:50 AM
I don't think he's declined a great deal athletically. His jump shot however has completely left him, thus making the game harder and making his stats drop off a bit.

He was never really a shooter anyway imo. He had it going for a bit, but it was never his strongest area of expertise.

kdspurman
02-21-2016, 11:51 AM
Russell Westbrook is the most athletic player in the NBA and has been for years and still is.

Yea, Westbrook is just a freak lol. His motor is always running

LOb0
02-21-2016, 01:04 PM
He was never really a shooter anyway imo. He had it going for a bit, but it was never his strongest area of expertise.

Yeah but he was at least passable and somewhat of a threat opening up his drives. He's the worst outside the paint shooter in the league now.

ackar
02-21-2016, 01:08 PM
Father Time is undefeated of course he is declining and coasting.

Chronz
02-21-2016, 02:18 PM
Yeah but he was at least passable and somewhat of a threat opening up his drives. He's the worst outside the paint shooter in the league now.

Statistically, that title actually belongs to Kobe last I checked. Bron was an even worse shooter in his youth and that didn't prevent him from getting half court dunks. Hes just less effective in every area of the court, a clear sign of a dip in athleticism, his jumper requires alot of leg work IMO.

JasonJohnHorn
02-21-2016, 02:35 PM
There's an expression that goes like this: How you do anything, is how you do everything.


If he's not staying on top of his game, even if it is a matter of just coasting, then when playoffs come, he won't be on top of his game. That's how it works. Basketball involves skills you need to not only develop, but also maintain. It's like a car. If you let a brand new car sit for twenty years, don't expect it to start when you finally decide to turn the ignition key.

You shot, your defense, these are things you have to keep on top of. We saw Shaq start coasting, and the Lakers team start coasting, and what happened? They watched the Spurs win in 03, and then limped into the finals only to get embarrassed by the Pistons in 04 before the team imploded. That's what happens when you coast.


Is it an actual decline? Or coasting? The question is strictly academic. The fact of he matter is he isn't as good as he was, and that is all that matters.

Chronz
02-21-2016, 03:55 PM
There's an expression that goes like this: How you do anything, is how you do everything.


If he's not staying on top of his game, even if it is a matter of just coasting, then when playoffs come, he won't be on top of his game. That's how it works. Basketball involves skills you need to not only develop, but also maintain. It's like a car. If you let a brand new car sit for twenty years, don't expect it to start when you finally decide to turn the ignition key.
You definitely need to develop habits but its possible to do so without going full bore every game. Not that I would know but I cant even think of a single goat save for MJ and Bird that possibly went ham all the time. Every single athlete slacked in some sense, be it in practice, certain regular season games. I know Hakeem admits to taking nights off. I know Bill Russel and Wilt hated practicing, tho in their day they had more reasons for it.


You shot, your defense, these are things you have to keep on top of. We saw Shaq start coasting, and the Lakers team start coasting, and what happened? They watched the Spurs win in 03, and then limped into the finals only to get embarrassed by the Pistons in 04 before the team imploded. That's what happens when you coast.
You're ignoring the 2 years prior, when they won back 2 back titles despite coasting. Shaq is actually one of the guys I think mastered the art of pacing, he had to, a big guy who plays the way he did, you can only take so much punishment. Those were the classic light switch Lakers, the kind of team that played some of the worst defense all year, but come playoffs sported the best defense in the league. I dont see how they coasted in 04 tho, Shaq was shedding weight from his injury and Karl Malone got hurt, Im sure they coasted but I remember Shaq being motivated for one last paycheck. In 03 Shaq could have and should have sat the entire year to fix his toe, instead he opted for surgery that got him back in time to spare the Lakers (and Kobe) from a lottery bound season. Though if there was ever a year to tank it would have been the Bron draft. Still assuming they were coasting more than usual those 2 years, that stretches their coasting run to 3 Finals and 2 chips. Thats a better stretch than any team you mentioned.



Is it an actual decline? Or coasting? The question is strictly academic. The fact of he matter is he isn't as good as he was, and that is all that matters.
I have a theory on players, forgive the generalities but they usually begin really coasting as they near 30 (tho this can vary depending on physical load/injuries mounted over the years), once they enter the coasting period they generally have 1 or 2 playoff runs that are basically them at their peak and after that you aren't just coasting, but incapable of truly elevating your game via flipping the switch.

Chronz
02-21-2016, 03:59 PM
He's just Le-Coning...

He will show up when the time is right. No worries Cav's fans.

Shouldn't you change your sig by now or are you using it sarcastically?

sheesh
02-21-2016, 04:19 PM
How do you explain guys like Duncan though who was notorious for just going absolutely ham in the playoffs? And he went into a preservation mode shortly after the first two MVP's.

Pop has had him in bubble wrap for a decade. Don't you think that's partly why he's been playing at an absurdly high per minute level at an old age?

sheesh
02-21-2016, 04:21 PM
Also Michael Jordan retired and played in the minors for two years. He basically went ham his entire career. I bet those two years helped him stave off burnout.

I'd imagine that 9 straight Finals appearances would have ruined him.

Ty Fast
02-21-2016, 09:30 PM
He's saving his energy for the Finals like he should be.

Dade County
02-21-2016, 11:59 PM
Shouldn't you change your sig by now or are you using it sarcastically?

Lol... Yes i should

Kevj77
02-22-2016, 12:58 AM
Father Time is undefeated of course he is declining and coasting.Yeah, nobody beats him. I think he's coasting a bit saving it for when it counts so he can go for a title. Still that can be dangerous. I remember as a Lakers fan Shaq doing the same thing, although I think Lebron's level of commitment is much higher. There came a point where Shaq couldn't flip the switch whenever he wanted and dominate all the time. He had to do it in spurts or save it up for an important game.

Sly Guy
02-22-2016, 01:35 AM
you'll only know for sure when it's playoff time. Yes, not giving that same level of effort in the regular season isn't a good sign, but really and always the question will be, can he bring it in the post season?

ManningToTyree
02-22-2016, 02:00 AM
He is physically declining. How he is able to adapt his game to meet that physical decline will determine his sustained greatness. He needs to evolve as a player. He can't blow past anyone and dunk on three people with regularity anymore and he's never been a superior outside shooter.

He needs to make his post game his go to game IMO and pick his spots for the other stuff. But that would mean he would have to relinquish the ball handling to Kyrie for the most part. Don't know if he is willing to do that.

That all said, I still think he has another gear for the post season.

IKnowHoops
02-22-2016, 03:04 AM
Lol... Yes i should

LOL...I always took it as if you were paying homage.

DboneG
02-22-2016, 09:07 AM
Yes, I agree with most of the posts here...he's in decline, but, still an amazing athlete and much wiser. He knows when to coast in games. Also, the reason why he was so big on Kevin Love. It looks like Kevin has figured it out. The Cavs will be so dangerous in the playoffs.

Tony_Starks
02-22-2016, 12:43 PM
Decline is kinda harsh when he's still in the mvp conversation. He can't jump out the gym anymore but his court vision is at a all time high IMO.

The jumper is as broke as it has ever been though. He really needs to get that right before the playoffs.

He's in a good position to coast now. Lue moving Love to the elbows and the block is going to make life a LOT easier for Cleveland.

He's like a new player now.

Hawkeye15
02-22-2016, 12:49 PM
he started his athletic decline 3 years ago. And of course he is coasting, the man has played 100 games each of the last 5 seasons. The peak LeBron is gone. So we will see what that decline phase looks like, even though he won a chip in his first decline year imo, and lost the last 2 years in the finals. It's why I think his championship days might be over. I don't think he is as good as he was late in Cleveland, and his first 3 years in Miami, and I don't trust Love/Irving enough yet.

ewing
02-22-2016, 12:55 PM
He wants this year's choke job to be good

FraziersKnicks
02-22-2016, 12:58 PM
he started his athletic decline 3 years ago. And of course he is coasting, the man has played 100 games each of the last 5 seasons. The peak LeBron is gone. So we will see what that decline phase looks like, even though he won a chip in his first decline year imo, and lost the last 2 years in the finals. It's why I think his championship days might be over. I don't think he is as good as he was late in Cleveland, and his first 3 years in Miami, and I don't trust Love/Irving enough yet.

IMO that ring against the Spurs was LeBron's absolute PEAK. I think that was one of the greatest individual season's ever.

IndyRealist
02-22-2016, 01:02 PM
Decline is kinda harsh when he's still in the mvp conversation. He can't jump out the gym anymore but his court vision is at a all time high IMO.

The jumper is as broke as it has ever been though. He really needs to get that right before the playoffs.

He's in a good position to coast now. Lue moving Love to the elbows and the block is going to make life a LOT easier for Cleveland.

He's like a new player now.

I think it's a stretch to say he's in the MVP conversation. People just include him by default, not due to anything he's actually doing this year. We'll see a substantially more impactful Lebron in the playoffs, but this ain't it atm.

FraziersKnicks
02-22-2016, 01:02 PM
He wants this year's choke job to be good

Last year's "choke" has got to be the GOAT though surely?

Find me another player that averaged 36/13/9 in a series against a hugely superior team without his 2nd and 3rd best players.

What a choke artist.

Chronz
02-22-2016, 02:15 PM
Last year's "choke" has got to be the GOAT though surely?

Find me another player that averaged 36/13/9 in a series against a hugely superior team without his 2nd and 3rd best players.

What a choke artist.

Jerry West had a similar scenario/performance when his Lakers lost Elgin.

tredigs
02-22-2016, 02:34 PM
Just coasting obvi. He's a top 3 goat, can play pg better than cp3, can guard all 5 positions sustained at an elite level, and if he tried could average a triple double. His last finals performance was the best of all time, I'm pretty certain he's just coasting.

Just to be clear, this IS you joking/trolling around, right?

Hangin n Wangin
02-22-2016, 03:30 PM
I'm thinking it's mostly coasting as well. But I do believe that his ability as a finisher is slipping.

LOL someone doesn't know what sarcasm is.

Scoots
02-22-2016, 03:52 PM
Last year's "choke" has got to be the GOAT though surely?

Find me another player that averaged 36/13/9 in a series against a hugely superior team without his 2nd and 3rd best players.

What a choke artist.

It was an amazing performance but had his teammates been there he would have almost certainly had lower box-score numbers but played a MUCH better game overall. And I think the Warriors would have won even sooner. LeBron holding the ball and pounding away at the Warriors D is still the only thing to slow the Warriors offense down in the last year.

CHANGO
02-22-2016, 04:57 PM
i think it's a stretch to say he's in the mvp conversation. People just include him by default, not due to anything he's actually doing this year. We'll see a substantially more impactful lebron in the playoffs, but this ain't it atm.

wut?

Tony_Starks
02-22-2016, 05:04 PM
Just coasting obvi. He's a top 3 goat, can play pg better than cp3, can guard all 5 positions sustained at an elite level, and if he tried could average a triple double. His last finals performance was the best of all time, I'm pretty certain he's just coasting.

Just to be clear, this IS you joking/trolling around, right?


Seeing that all of those things are the typical cliches of the delusional I would say it's safe to say he is joking....

IKnowHoops
02-22-2016, 05:12 PM
Just to be clear, this IS you joking/trolling around, right?

You don't have to ask. You already know.

phantasyyy
02-22-2016, 05:44 PM
I think it's a stretch to say he's in the MVP conversation. People just include him by default, not due to anything he's actually doing this year. We'll see a substantially more impactful Lebron in the playoffs, but this ain't it atm.

Huh? Idk how you can not include him in the MVP conversation.. Dudes still putting up absurd numbers even if they are down from his peak numbers lol. He IS the reason the Cavs are #1 and are pretty much guranteed yet another Finals appearence.

Honestly I think his greatness/peak works against him nowadays with people expecting so much more from what he is presently producing yet if you compare his numbers to everybody except maybe Curry/Westbrook he'd pretty much have a case over anyone else in the L.

JasonJohnHorn
02-22-2016, 11:33 PM
You definitely need to develop habits but its possible to do so without going full bore every game. Not that I would know but I cant even think of a single goat save for MJ and Bird that possibly went ham all the time. Every single athlete slacked in some sense, be it in practice, certain regular season games. I know Hakeem admits to taking nights off. I know Bill Russel and Wilt hated practicing, tho in their day they had more reasons for it.


You're ignoring the 2 years prior, when they won back 2 back titles despite coasting. Shaq is actually one of the guys I think mastered the art of pacing, he had to, a big guy who plays the way he did, you can only take so much punishment. Those were the classic light switch Lakers, the kind of team that played some of the worst defense all year, but come playoffs sported the best defense in the league. I dont see how they coasted in 04 tho, Shaq was shedding weight from his injury and Karl Malone got hurt, Im sure they coasted but I remember Shaq being motivated for one last paycheck. In 03 Shaq could have and should have sat the entire year to fix his toe, instead he opted for surgery that got him back in time to spare the Lakers (and Kobe) from a lottery bound season. Though if there was ever a year to tank it would have been the Bron draft. Still assuming they were coasting more than usual those 2 years, that stretches their coasting run to 3 Finals and 2 chips. Thats a better stretch than any team you mentioned.



I have a theory on players, forgive the generalities but they usually begin really coasting as they near 30 (tho this can vary depending on physical load/injuries mounted over the years), once they enter the coasting period they generally have 1 or 2 playoff runs that are basically them at their peak and after that you aren't just coasting, but incapable of truly elevating your game via flipping the switch.

There is a difference between coasting and pacing.


Duncan paces himself. Stockton paced himself. They didn't put up bad shots. They didn't give up on plays.

And there are any number of franchise players who went all out all the time. Nash. CP3. Kidd. Kobe. Malone. Hakeem (accept maybe the last couple of seasons when his age caught up with him). There's plenty more. That's not to say you have to put the pedal down all the way every game.



As for teams that have 'coasted'. I don't think I'd say the '01 Lakers 'coasted'. Shaq and Kobe put in about 80 minutes a game that year between the two of them, and Kone put in 38 minuntes in 02, and Shaq put in 36. But Shaq also missed about 20 games that year with injury, so they were taking it a little easier on the minuters. I don't think that was coasting.


When you coast, you rely on your talent and play loose. You'll take bad shot. When you pace yourself, you'll be willing to defer on offense to the open man; make the extra pass; focus on boxing out while a younger guy cashes the boards (like Laimbeer did when Rodman started blowing up).

CHANGO
02-23-2016, 05:13 PM
This just shows why he needs to coast or pace himself, or whatever.

http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cb7VjCoW0AA-ePj.jpg

LA_Raiders
02-24-2016, 04:05 AM
He will need a big 4 to win a ship now...

FOXHOUND
02-24-2016, 04:15 AM
I think his physical decline is pretty evident, especially on defense. That's normal for any player at his age though, let alone one with that much mileage. He's still plenty great, he's just no longer at his peak.

Chronz
02-24-2016, 04:18 AM
It was an amazing performance but had his teammates been there he would have almost certainly had lower box-score numbers but played a MUCH better game overall. And I think the Warriors would have won even sooner. LeBron holding the ball and pounding away at the Warriors D is still the only thing to slow the Warriors offense down in the last year.

Depends on ur definition of box-score numbers.

Munkeysuit
02-24-2016, 05:30 AM
13 years in the league, most games every played by any NBA player (at his age) most minutes played by any NBA player (at his age) and 5 straight trips to the NBA finals on top of all the olympic games as well...yea, ANYONE would decline haha!

ewing
02-24-2016, 06:15 AM
he's fine. he's just using "his huge basketball IQ"

kobe4thewinbang
02-25-2016, 03:36 PM
He's still got beast mode on speed dial, but I worry about his back, the cramps he gets, and his tendency to favor 'not the best' scoring opportunities. Still unstoppable on a drive, but he did shoot, what, 5-18 the other night. Ouch. So, yeah, he's declining now but dead stars are just as bright. LOL.

IKnowHoops
02-25-2016, 10:48 PM
he's fine. he's just using "his huge basketball IQ"

Such hatred

europagnpilgrim
02-26-2016, 01:07 AM
LeBron is doing both now and back then, ever since his rookie year because he had the youth on his side and faster gear his first 8 years or so along with high intelligence/feel for the game, now its in his like 13th year so he is in basically shaq/wilt mode, getting ready for finals push for pretty much the rest of his career so no need to go full blast in regular season, playoff time he will be better this year barring no freak injuries from his star co partners

he paced-coasted the best in Miami stretch, 16 shots per game one year, that is a far cry from his 20+ shots he had to take first stint in cleveland

Chronz
02-26-2016, 01:26 AM
There is a difference between coasting and pacing.
I dunno man, its a pretty fine line IMO.


Duncan paces himself. Stockton paced himself. They didn't put up bad shots. They didn't give up on plays.
The guys I mentioned did. Taking bad shots isn't a sign of either, Kobe took a **** load of bad shots, doesn't mean he wasn't trying hard as hell. And what of contextual differences? What if playerB doesn't get to rest the way Duncan/Stockton did? Surely you understand why a player who plays 38MPG may take plays off vs a guy who gets to limit their workload.



And there are any number of franchise players who went all out all the time. Nash. CP3. Kidd. Kobe. Malone. Hakeem (accept maybe the last couple of seasons when his age caught up with him). There's plenty more. That's not to say you have to put the pedal down all the way every game.
Hakeem would disagree with you, when he says he gets to take days off in the NBA, what category does that fall under, pacing or coasting? When we hear the complaints about CP3 not being aggressive enough, that hes deferring too much, hes not coasting, hes pacing? I honestly dont know the difference but it sounds negligible cuz facts are CP3 could do more but he would be risking injury far more often IMO. Dude seems to have alot of lower body issues. I saw first hand when Kobe would coast and his own coach agrees that he steps up his defensive discipline come playoffs. I mean, whats the difference between the 2?



As for teams that have 'coasted'. I don't think I'd say the '01 Lakers 'coasted'.
Then I wouldn't trust your opinion on recognizing a team thats coasting, its absolutely true they coasted and EVERYONE was saying it back then. From analysts to coaches alike.


Shaq and Kobe put in about 80 minutes a game that year between the two of them, and Kone put in 38 minuntes in 02, and Shaq put in 36. But Shaq also missed about 20 games that year with injury, so they were taking it a little easier on the minuters. I don't think that was coasting.
I dont understand your statistical analysis, the MPG between the 2 was fairly constant, why would such a minuscule difference matter more than what they actually accomplished in that time? AGAIN, the Lakers went from playing the WORST defense in the league to the BEST defense in the league come playoffs. Thats CLASSIC LIGHTSWITCH territory and why I consider the 01 Lakers the best team of all-time. They coasted ALL year, then they decided enough was enough and went back to their offensive/defensive principles.

I sincerely hope you have more than MPG to back your baseless opinion because a quick glance shows that Shaq actually played MORE minutes in one of the years you say he coasted than the year you say he merely paced himself. LOL, cmon man, its OK to be wrong



When you coast, you rely on your talent and play loose. You'll take bad shot. When you pace yourself, you'll be willing to defer on offense to the open man; make the extra pass; focus on boxing out while a younger guy cashes the boards (like Laimbeer did when Rodman started blowing up).
Lakers coasted during 2 of the 3 championship seasons then. There is no exclusivity here, you can defer on offense, make the extra pass, box out etc... while coasting as well. You can take bad shots doing both as well. Im struggling to see your points but I do know you're wrong about the Lakers. They took it easy all year and then swept the West.

Chronz
02-26-2016, 01:38 AM
LeBron is doing both now and back then, ever since his rookie year because he had the youth on his side and faster gear his first 8 years or so along with high intelligence/feel for the game, now its in his like 13th year so he is in basically shaq/wilt mode, getting ready for finals push for pretty much the rest of his career so no need to go full blast in regular season, playoff time he will be better this year barring no freak injuries from his star co partners

he paced-coasted the best in Miami stretch, 16 shots per game one year, that is a far cry from his 20+ shots he had to take first stint in cleveland

Interestingly enough, Bron first coasted the year he took the Cavs to the Finals. I remember the expectations on Bron were huge after one of his most impressive seasons to date. For the follow up season all his numbers dipped, it seemed like he wasn't trying hard enough and reporters asked him about it, to which he responded, "who else is putting up my numbers" or something like that. In the end, he got the last laugh as the Cavs overachieved come playoffs.

valade16
02-26-2016, 10:20 AM
And there are any number of franchise players who went all out all the time. Nash. CP3. Kidd. Kobe. Malone. Hakeem (accept maybe the last couple of seasons when his age caught up with him). There's plenty more. That's not to say you have to put the pedal down all the way every game.

Hakeem took games off frequently. He told Kenny Smith before they played the Shaq and the Magic "Kenny, I only have to play against 4 guys a year, this is one of those guys"

Chronz
02-26-2016, 02:30 PM
Hakeem took games off frequently. He told Kenny Smith before they played the Shaq and the Magic "Kenny, I only have to play against 4 guys a year, this is one of those guys"

Hes just gonna say thats pacing, not coasting.

But maybe thats why Hakeems stats in the playoffs are so much more godly than his RS numbers, he actually gives more of a ****. Hes the only guy I know of that absolutely raises his playoff adjusted stats despite the advanced intensity/defense.