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View Full Version : Report: Howard and Harden tried to get each other traded in 2013



shep33
02-17-2016, 06:03 PM
http://nba.nbcsports.com/2016/02/17/report-dwight-howard-and-james-harden-tried-to-get-the-other-traded-from-rockets-in-2013/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


Awkward

DR_1
02-17-2016, 06:05 PM
Yikes

Hawkeye15
02-17-2016, 06:16 PM
1st thought: "Trade my all star teammate"

2 months later: "Get me more help"

shep33
02-17-2016, 06:17 PM
1st thought: "Trade my all star teammate"

2 months later: "Get me more help"

yup

Laker Legend42
02-17-2016, 06:45 PM
This is kinda funny to me. We've been hearing how Houston is the best and and the forefront of using analytics in team building. Clearly analytics doesn't factor in how guys mesh together and how they will get along. You didn't have to be a genius or do a lot of thinking when you initially decided to put arguably the best center in the game(at the time) alongside one of the best guards in the league. This is the issue teams will have if they decide to concentrate solely on analytics. I will also say. I have to side with Dwight Howard. Josh smith just got back in Houston and get more shot attempts than Howard.

ManningToTyree
02-17-2016, 06:46 PM
Dwight is walking drama how could anyone want his headache at this point? When he was elite I understood teams overlooking it but now I can't see the reasoning

JasonJohnHorn
02-17-2016, 06:58 PM
You have to look at people, not just stats.

Howard has proved that he is immature and has too much ego.

I still remember Orlando's trip to the final when he got into a post-game interview and started complaining about not getting enough touches in the paint and calling out SVG on that. Like WTF? Are you serious. You team is on the way to the finals and is kicking @$$ and taking names along the way, and you gotta complain about your personal stats in the playoffs when your team is winning?

And the worst thing is that SVG caved on that and gave him more touches in the finals and Howard responded with racking up offensive fouls and getting pulled out of them games early.

The in LAL he's teamed up with the league's ultimate winner, and best pick-and-roll point guard, and he complains that he's not getting enough balls in the post and doesn't want to run pick-and-rolls even though they are effective plays? Like wtf?


I wouldn't have even chased after him if I was Houston unless it was to get a trade bait to turn around and use to get more pieces.


Howard is an awful offensive player and a solid rebounder and defender. but his ego doesn't see his limits. He thinks he's Hakeem and he's pretty fawking far from that.

So you look at his stats and think: we got a great offensive team and a weak defensive SG; Howard fits in perfectly according to stats. Great. Umm... not so great, because he thinks he can pull of the Dream Shake and take 15 footers and will complain when he's not the first option on offense.


That's who he is. It doesn't sound like he's fixed that problem yet and until he does, he will hold whatever team he is on back.

CHANGO
02-17-2016, 07:12 PM
Both of this players are a joke. As simple as that.

houstonfan
02-17-2016, 07:36 PM
Thoughts of Rockets fans:

2012-13: Took the Thunder to 6, fought hard, getting Harden was a great idea! Just need to build with Parsons and Harden

2013-14: Yes we got the best center in basketball! 54 wins is solid! This is a really fun team to watch and they seem to genuinely love playing with each other and Parsons just hit that game winning layup to force game 7 back in Hous…. **** YOU LILLARD!

2014-15: Not even mad we lost Parsons, Ariza fits better. We were one or two plays away from beating Golden State in games 1 and 2 in the WCF and lost a fairly competitive series, somehow Josh Smith fits in here? Just need one more playmaker to help Harden and this team can win a title.

2015-16:Ty Lawson for absolutely nothing! Bring him off the bench and have him run the show while Harden takes a break…wait we are starting him? That seems like a bad idea. Why is Dwight getting the 7th most shots on this team while shooting 61% from the field? Wow we are 0-5 vs Denver and Brooklyn? WTF happened? I hate this team. I really hate this team.

Saddletramp
02-17-2016, 07:49 PM
Thoughts of Rockets fans:

2012-13: Took the Thunder to 6, fought hard, getting Harden was a great idea! Just need to build with Parsons and Harden

2013-14: Yes we got the best center in basketball! 54 wins is solid! This is a really fun team to watch and they seem to genuinely love playing with each other and Parsons just hit that game winning layup to force game 7 back in Hous…. **** YOU LILLARD!

2014-15: Not even mad we lost Parsons, Ariza fits better. We were one or two plays away from beating Golden State in games 1 and 2 in the WCF and lost a fairly competitive series, somehow Josh Smith fits in here? Just need one more playmaker to help Harden and this team can win a title.

2015-16:Ty Lawson for absolutely nothing! Bring him off the bench and have him run the show while Harden takes a break…wait we are starting him? That seems like a bad idea. Why is Dwight getting the 7th most shots on this team while shooting 61% from the field? Wow we are 0-5 vs Denver and Brooklyn? WTF happened? I hate this team. I really hate this team.

Spot on.

Ariza's Better
02-17-2016, 08:00 PM
Got to question the article. Blinbebury is not the most trusted "journalist" and has clashed with Harden before.

MTar786
02-17-2016, 08:16 PM
Thoughts of Rockets fans:

2012-13: Took the Thunder to 6, fought hard, getting Harden was a great idea! Just need to build with Parsons and Harden

2013-14: Yes we got the best center in basketball! 54 wins is solid! This is a really fun team to watch and they seem to genuinely love playing with each other and Parsons just hit that game winning layup to force game 7 back in Hous…. **** YOU LILLARD!

2014-15: Not even mad we lost Parsons, Ariza fits better. We were one or two plays away from beating Golden State in games 1 and 2 in the WCF and lost a fairly competitive series, somehow Josh Smith fits in here? Just need one more playmaker to help Harden and this team can win a title.

2015-16:Ty Lawson for absolutely nothing! Bring him off the bench and have him run the show while Harden takes a break…wait we are starting him? That seems like a bad idea. Why is Dwight getting the 7th most shots on this team while shooting 61% from the field? Wow we are 0-5 vs Denver and Brooklyn? WTF happened? I hate this team. I really hate this team.

this

D-Leethal
02-17-2016, 08:51 PM
This team is by far the easiest team to root against in the NBA. Clips are close, but at least they have Redick and his fully tatted sleeve.

Chronz
02-17-2016, 08:57 PM
This team is by far the easiest team to root against in the NBA. Clips are close, but at least they have Redick and his fully tatted sleeve.

like it do you. hes definitely played with more of a mean streak this year too

Laker Legend42
02-17-2016, 09:00 PM
This team is by far the easiest team to root against in the NBA. Clips are close, but at least they have Redick and his fully tatted sleeve.
Golden state is moving up the ranks. Not because of the players but because of the fans. I know lakers fans are bad but I listen on Siriusxm and the golden state fans call asking why no one likes their team. If someone says this team or that team might have a good chance to beat them they are upset. One guy was mad because the host said something about how well okc played rather than saying golden state had a bad shooting night but still found a way to win.

Laker Legend42
02-17-2016, 09:04 PM
Thoughts of Rockets fans:

2012-13: Took the Thunder to 6, fought hard, getting Harden was a great idea! Just need to build with Parsons and Harden

2013-14: Yes we got the best center in basketball! 54 wins is solid! This is a really fun team to watch and they seem to genuinely love playing with each other and Parsons just hit that game winning layup to force game 7 back in Hous…. **** YOU LILLARD!

2014-15: Not even mad we lost Parsons, Ariza fits better. We were one or two plays away from beating Golden State in games 1 and 2 in the WCF and lost a fairly competitive series, somehow Josh Smith fits in here? Just need one more playmaker to help Harden and this team can win a title.

2015-16:Ty Lawson for absolutely nothing! Bring him off the bench and have him run the show while Harden takes a break…wait we are starting him? That seems like a bad idea. Why is Dwight getting the 7th most shots on this team while shooting 61% from the field? Wow we are 0-5 vs Denver and Brooklyn? WTF happened? I hate this team. I really hate this team.
Agreed. I never understood why they put ty Lawson along side a shooting guard that dominates the ball. Also ever since hardens "I'm the real mvp" rant he hasn't shown up the way he said that he would.

Scoots
02-17-2016, 09:05 PM
Golden state is moving up the ranks. Not because of the players but because of the fans. I know lakers fans are bad but I listen on Siriusxm and the golden state fans call asking why no one likes their team. If someone says this team or that team might have a good chance to beat them they are upset. One guy was mad because the host said something about how well okc played rather than saying golden state had a bad shooting night but still found a way to win.
Dude ... Don't listen to call in shows ... They are all terrible :)

numba1CHANGsta
02-17-2016, 09:09 PM
They're both overrated so could care less

Sandman
02-17-2016, 09:12 PM
Dwight Howard is the real Big Baby

Teeboy1487
02-17-2016, 09:25 PM
Tried to tell you Houston fans. Howard is a POS.

More-Than-Most
02-17-2016, 09:38 PM
Dwight is walking drama how could anyone want his headache at this point? When he was elite I understood teams overlooking it but now I can't see the reasoning

Nobody listened to laker fans when they were saying this

Sandman
02-17-2016, 09:42 PM
Nobody listened to laker fans when they were saying this

**nobody listened to Magic fans when they were saying this

Saddletramp
02-17-2016, 10:12 PM
I really don't think it's all on Howard. It seems that's it's on Harden. Almost like no matter what he/the team does it won't beat GS so it ultimately won't matter. But if one has to go, it's going to be Howard.

nastynice
02-17-2016, 10:22 PM
**nobody listened to Magic fans when they were saying this

True, but coming out of Orlando his upside just seemed so high, I could see why teams would happily take on his diva attitude. Now, it's just starting to get disappointing. He still brings a lot to the table, especially in the paint, but just don't know if it's worth the money or the trouble

nastynice
02-17-2016, 10:26 PM
I really don't think it's all on Howard. It seems that's it's on Harden. Almost like no matter what he/the team does it won't beat GS so it ultimately won't matter. But if one has to go, it's going to be Howard.

So much talent between the two, but there's just something missing mentally with both of them. Like they don't believe in themselves or their abilities or something, I don't know. Lebron gets a lot of heat for not having that killer mentality, and he really doesn't, but these two guys have absolutely ZERO of that in them. There's just no good reason they shouldnt be a legit heavy threat

Sandman
02-17-2016, 10:51 PM
True, but coming out of Orlando his upside just seemed so high, I could see why teams would happily take on his diva attitude. Now, it's just starting to get disappointing. He still brings a lot to the table, especially in the paint, but just don't know if it's worth the money or the trouble

Fair point! Over the last year, year and half after the finals appearance you could just see the change in attitude. Like somebody else pointed out, the Magic won a deciding game to advance and he still *****ed about getting the ball. It is one thing to ***** about getting the ball when you lose, it is a diva primadonna thing to ***** about getting the ball when you win.

He had everything he wanted in Orlando -- he was the big fish in a little pond, like he needs to be. At the time, I thought the biggest crime was giving Rashard Lewis a Kobe contract. Looking back, it was firing Stan Van Gundy and not giving him the credit he deserved.

Dwight had the team built around him. 4 shooters to spread the floor. An average PG in Jameer but a point forward in Turkoglu and Rashard Lewis the $25m man. Gortat the perfect backup -- they won a ****ing Game 7 with Gortat in the starting lineup because Dwight racked up too many technicals and got a 1 game suspension.

He will never have that again, and every time he chirps it is like music to my ears.

CHANGO
02-17-2016, 10:54 PM
It's funny that people want to blame it all on Howard here... I mean, yeah we know Dwight immaturity issues already, but let's talk about the other superstar too. Harden showed to training camp overweight, plays 0 defense and his leadership abilities are non existent. Both are a joke, but of the two one is supposed to be the leader and best player of the team, and that's Harden.

Sandman
02-17-2016, 10:59 PM
So much talent between the two, but there's just something missing mentally with both of them. Like they don't believe in themselves or their abilities or something, I don't know. Lebron gets a lot of heat for not having that killer mentality, and he really doesn't, but these two guys have absolutely ZERO of that in them. There's just no good reason they shouldnt be a legit heavy threat

I'm not sure about this.

Dwight definitely prefers to blame his teammates

But Harden's shortcomings are on defense and just chucking the ball in general. If anything I'd say Harden needs to dial down the killer will the ball and figure out a way to find it going the other way.

Howard is what he always has been. The biggest and most athletic player on the floor. He's an amazing defender with 0 manual dexterity. If Dwight just knew what he COULDN'T do, he would never have a problem.

Maybe I'm giving Harden too much credit, but Kobe couldn't play with this guy either.

Sandman
02-17-2016, 11:01 PM
It's funny that people want to blame it all on Howard here... I mean, yeah we know Dwight immaturity issues already, but let's talk about the other superstar too. Harden showed to training camp overweight, plays 0 defense and his leadership abilities are non existent. Both are a joke, but of the two one is supposed to be the leader and best player of the team, and that's Harden.

The difference is Harden doesn't play 0 defense and turn and ask somebody else why they didn't have his back

kingsdelez24
02-17-2016, 11:42 PM
I remember watching Howard rip apart Robin Lopez in the 2014 playoffs while Harden chucked for 36 percent on the series. Parsons was the main ball handler at some timea and they looked a lot more cohesively, kind of like how Dwight played with Turk.

As much of a primadona Dwight is and has been for most of his career, Harden should not have as much freedom as he does playing his ugly, flop based, stat padding style. He's the most overrated player I've ever seen. He's what Jamal Crawford would have been if he had the ball for 90% of his teams possesions

Sandman
02-17-2016, 11:52 PM
I remember watching Howard rip apart Robin Lopez in the 2014 playoffs while Harden chucked for 36 percent on the series. Parsons was the main ball handler at some timea and they looked a lot more cohesively, kind of like how Dwight played with Turk.

As much of a primadona Dwight is and has been for most of his career, Harden should not have as much freedom as he does playing his ugly, flop based, stat padding style. He's the most overrated player I've ever seen. He's what Jamal Crawford would have been if he had the ball for 90% of his teams possesions

This is 100% true, Harden is a great off ball player and they have done a great job picking the worst fits at the point

PatsSoxKnicks
02-18-2016, 12:41 AM
Got to question the article. Blinbebury is not the most trusted "journalist" and has clashed with Harden before.

Agreed, this seems like ********. I highly doubt this gets out unless the writer made it up. The Houston front office would've heard about it and I doubt they leaked it.

Aust
02-18-2016, 01:44 AM
So familiar, haha oh man it keeps getting better

Aust
02-18-2016, 01:54 AM
I remember watching Howard rip apart Robin Lopez in the 2014 playoffs while Harden chucked for 36 percent on the series. Parsons was the main ball handler at some timea and they looked a lot more cohesively, kind of like how Dwight played with Turk.

As much of a primadona Dwight is and has been for most of his career, Harden should not have as much freedom as he does playing his ugly, flop based, stat padding style. He's the most overrated player I've ever seen. He's what Jamal Crawford would have been if he had the ball for 90% of his teams possesions

Great post. Howard and Turk were money!

PatsSoxKnicks
02-18-2016, 06:38 AM
Great post. Howard and Turk were money!

Not really a great post. Far from it. Harden honestly gets underrated by casual fans at the moment because his game is "ugly" to watch but to most nuanced NBA fans (i.e. scouts, stat community, etc.) they understand the value he brings to the Rockets. Look at his +/- numbers (his ORPM is enormous) and his impact on the Rockets offensively. Yeah he sucks on defense but he far far outweighs that with his offense. Also consider the Rockets have a bunch of crap talent on offense surrounding Harden (Lawson becoming a bum overnight has hurt them a ton). Not only that, he's still a year removed from finishing 2nd in the MVP voting. A little crazy to sit there and say he's overrated because a half season of disappointing play which is still better than 90% of the players in the NBA.

Also for all everyone wants to say about Howard/Harden leadership issues, it's kinda amazing that people forget that same duo overachieved last year with the Rockets (sure the Clippers might've choked more than the Rockets won but they still were underdogs in that series and got further than expected). Now I'm not disputing the Rockets have chemistry issues but I'm sure a lot of that has to do with a lot of their role players also underperforming and not just the stars. No one on that team can hit a 3 outside of Harden (and Bev) and Lawson has been such a massive disappointment. Honestly, surprised Lawson isn't getting more blame considering he's the only guy they added from the team last year (which yes, again overachieved) and he's been beyond terrible. Like worst PG in the league terrible.

Also not saying Harden hasn't been a bit disappointing this season but players have down years. He certainly didn't come to camp in good shape which doesn't look good. But he's not the first star player to do that and won't be the last. Pretty sure Kyle Lowry came into either last season or the year before overweight and now the guy is having a tremendous season after getting into shape. Let's see what Harden does next year before people bury his rep. Also, let's stop with the mythmaking of his "ugly" game making him overrated. The whole "he won't get calls" thing was proven wrong in last year's playoffs. And his FT rate is actually similar in the postseason.

Vinylman
02-18-2016, 08:55 AM
**nobody listened to Magic fans when they were saying this

haha ... well played

JJ_JKidd
02-18-2016, 10:13 AM
McHale is blessed for not having to deal with these two girls

Tony_Starks
02-18-2016, 10:14 AM
-Shaq was right about Dwight Howard

-Barkley was right about Morey

-Khloe was right about Harden

Vee-Rex
02-18-2016, 11:31 AM
Harden's game just doesn't translate to a winning culture.

Houston needs to go all in one way or another. If they're gonna trade Dwight, I'd heavily consider trading Harden as well. I'd look to get the Nets pick from Boston along with some young talent. Ainge would give up that pick for Harden in a heartbeat. Would probably take 3 teams to pull off a trade, but man I just don't see a glimmer or spark of hope for Houston with Harden at its core.

It would take an extremely special/unique setup around him for them to have a chance at a title, and even then GS would still be heavy favorites.

kingsdelez24
02-18-2016, 11:28 PM
The rockets would get a lot of value for Harden. Advanced stats mean nothing if he's eating up so much usg% playing an ugly game. Its easier to build a team and system around Howard than it is Harden

KnicksorBust
02-19-2016, 08:35 AM
Harden's game just doesn't translate to a winning culture.

Houston needs to go all in one way or another. If they're gonna trade Dwight, I'd heavily consider trading Harden as well. I'd look to get the Nets pick from Boston along with some young talent. Ainge would give up that pick for Harden in a heartbeat. Would probably take 3 teams to pull off a trade, but man I just don't see a glimmer or spark of hope for Houston with Harden at its core.

It would take an extremely special/unique setup around him for them to have a chance at a title, and even then GS would still be heavy favorites.

They won 56 games and went to the WCF last year in a loaded conference before losing the Warriors. :laugh:

what are you people talking about? Harden is an amazing player.

Tony_Starks
02-19-2016, 10:36 AM
*

Speaking with ESPN’s Russillo & Kanell, “The Admiral” weighed in on Cousins and Howard’s lack of maturity. “To me that’s extremely frustrating. I saw Dwight [Howard] coming out of high school, his first couple of years in the pros, it looked like he was just going to go crazy and I was excited. He was one of those super athletic seven footers that I always prided myself on being one of those guys that can run and jump, so I was excited to see what he could do. I think it’s a little bit of immaturity.”*“Those guys haven’t learned how to get along with their coaches, their teammates. At some point you got to grow up. At some point you got to figure out how to help make this team better instead of being the center of attention.*I got to make these guys better. ”*

–*via*ProjectSpurs.com

*

Vee-Rex
02-19-2016, 11:02 AM
They won 56 games and went to the WCF last year in a loaded conference before losing the Warriors. :laugh:

what are you people talking about? Harden is an amazing player.


You can't tell me that if they traded Howard (which was the necessary stipulation I repeatedly stated if I would try to trade Harden), they'd be in great shape to continue forward with just Harden.

They don't have any good assets to bring in another star with Harden, and I HIGHLY doubt Houston (with just Harden and no Howard) would be an attractive FA destination for the big names. Hell, they can't even get anyone to go there WITH Howard and Harden, how would they do it without Howard?

On top of all of the above, there's plenty of people that, for valid reasons, believe the Rockets vastly overachieved last year. In finishing 2nd in the conference as well as beating the Clippers.

That was last year.

This year, they may not even make the playoffs. And if they hit the 7th or 8th seed they're going to get destroyed by the Spurs or Warriors.

Harden is an exceptional player that needs an exceptional team around him to succeed because he's not only ball dominant and somewhat streaky on offense, but he's a complete liability on defense. If I were a GM and I ONLY had Harden and I knew it'd be difficult/near-impossible to draw other stars I'd be tempted to push the reset button especially if I know I can get a **** ton of assets in return for him.

YAALREADYKNO
02-19-2016, 11:04 AM
Lmao well they're both divas so I'm not surprised

nycericanguy
02-19-2016, 11:07 AM
Morey had a good thing going but I think he is just too star struck. He seems to gut the roster every year to try to get max salary slots.

They let go Lin, Asik, Parsons... off the top of my head, 3 solid role players, just to chase guys like Melo & Bosh. Morey is already talking about having 2 max salary players this offseason.

You don't need 4 max guys to win, he needs to just put some solid role players around Howard & Harden.

Vampirate
02-19-2016, 11:27 AM
The problem with Harden is he has an all star impact, not a superstar one. He's a superstar on offense, however his defense is so bad it brings his overall impact down to All Star level instead of being a genuine superstar level.

Tony_Starks
02-19-2016, 11:32 AM
Morey had a good thing going but I think he is just too star struck. He seems to gut the roster every year to try to get max salary slots.

They let go Lin, Asik, Parsons... off the top of my head, 3 solid role players, just to chase guys like Melo & Bosh. Morey is already talking about having 2 max salary players this offseason.

You don't need 4 max guys to win, he needs to just put some solid role players around Howard & Harden.


Wait wait wait, don't forget Morey is the analytic advanced stat genius.

It is theoretically impossible for him to have screwed this team completely up....

Aust
02-19-2016, 04:47 PM
You can't tell me that if they traded Howard (which was the necessary stipulation I repeatedly stated if I would try to trade Harden), they'd be in great shape to continue forward with just Harden.

They don't have any good assets to bring in another star with Harden, and I HIGHLY doubt Houston (with just Harden and no Howard) would be an attractive FA destination for the big names. Hell, they can't even get anyone to go there WITH Howard and Harden, how would they do it without Howard?

On top of all of the above, there's plenty of people that, for valid reasons, believe the Rockets vastly overachieved last year. In finishing 2nd in the conference as well as beating the Clippers.

That was last year.

This year, they may not even make the playoffs. And if they hit the 7th or 8th seed they're going to get destroyed by the Spurs or Warriors.

Harden is an exceptional player that needs an exceptional team around him to succeed because he's not only ball dominant and somewhat streaky on offense, but he's a complete liability on defense. If I were a GM and I ONLY had Harden and I knew it'd be difficult/near-impossible to draw other stars I'd be tempted to push the reset button especially if I know I can get a **** ton of assets in return for him.

Yeah, I don't think a team can win it all with Harden as the top guy.

CHANGO
02-19-2016, 07:20 PM
They won 56 games and went to the WCF last year in a loaded conference before losing the Warriors. :laugh:

what are you people talking about? Harden is an amazing player.

Sorry but, a star player that can't defend and shows overweight to training camp isn't a winning player.