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joshhorvath
02-01-2016, 08:58 PM
Just chillin with a couple buddies and we started talking and it made me think...

Gretzky, Jordan, Ruth,Brady amoung others... amoung every sport (NBA,NHL,NFL,MLB).. who is the greatest athlete of all time?

im thinking overall, the top 2 are..

1A) Michael Jordan (NBA)
1B)Wayne Gretzky (NHL)

still1ballin
02-01-2016, 09:07 PM
colby brian

jerellh528
02-01-2016, 09:18 PM
I heard it was a guy name paylay

jerellh528
02-01-2016, 09:20 PM
Realistically it's Jordan, with Ali second probably

krazylegz
02-01-2016, 09:24 PM
jordan and gretzky are probably right on point....jerry rice and jim brown are the greatest nfl players to have ever played,but jordan and gretzky were next level in their respectful sports...ali was great,but old timers would argue sugar ray robinson and rocky marciano were better boxers

krazylegz
02-01-2016, 09:28 PM
actually,after a few mins of thinking wayne gretzky maybe the best of all time,because who was more dominate at his sport??

KnicksorBust
02-01-2016, 09:37 PM
What Ruth did in baseball tops MJ and the rest. He out homered entire teams. He was Wilt's dominance with MJ's success. Plus he could pitch!

tredigs
02-01-2016, 09:38 PM
Brady GOAT? I don't know, i don't think he'd win that poll for the NFL. If we're talking the major US/Canadian sports only, I would say Jordan (Kareem/Wilt/Russell/Magic), Gretzky (Orr/Howe/Lemieux), Ruth (Mays/Bonds/Ted WIlliams), Rice (Montana/W Payton/P Manning/Brady/Brown). Nobody for soccer really either. Pele (Maradona/Messi/C Ronaldo/Zidanne/Beckenbaur).

tredigs
02-01-2016, 09:42 PM
What Ruth did in baseball tops MJ and the rest. He out homered entire teams. He was Wilt's dominance with MJ's success. Plus he could pitch!

Just tough because baseball is so old+advanced currently that he would not currently be the best player, and that definitely hurts his case.

joedaheights
02-01-2016, 11:12 PM
What Ruth did in baseball tops MJ and the rest. He out homered entire teams. He was Wilt's dominance with MJ's success. Plus he could pitch!

I'd like to see MJ in a game without black people in the 20s. He'd probably be so good he could stop, an inning across the street, come back and score 40.

ESPN already did this. It was called sportscentury

MTar786
02-01-2016, 11:31 PM
ali
jordan

IndyRealist
02-01-2016, 11:37 PM
Royce Gracie dominated people 100lbs heavier than him, fighting multiple fights on the same night, and retired undefeated.* UFC 1 had an absurd format and next to no refereeing. I'm surprised no one died.

*(No one counts his comeback for one fight WAY after his prime any more than they count Wizards' MJ).

ewing
02-01-2016, 11:43 PM
jim breuer

Vampirate
02-02-2016, 12:29 AM
Really hard question to ask because in order to answer this, you'd have to be incredibly well versed in every single sport.

tredigs
02-02-2016, 12:47 AM
Royce Gracie dominated people 100lbs heavier than him, fighting multiple fights on the same night, and retired undefeated.* UFC 1 had an absurd format and next to no refereeing. I'm surprised no one died.

*(No one counts his comeback for one fight WAY after his prime any more than they count Wizards' MJ).

Again, like Ruth, he was the FIRST great, but in no way is he the best to ever do it. Prime Anderson Silva probably has that crown.

IKnowHoops
02-02-2016, 03:09 AM
Usain/Mike/Wayne

NYKalltheway
02-02-2016, 09:14 AM
I don't know about other US sports, but it's Ali over Jordan. And Michael Phelps is up there.

JasonJohnHorn
02-02-2016, 09:34 AM
Did Ruth never play in a segregated league?

So among white guys, he was the best.

Beltrans Mole
02-02-2016, 10:14 AM
I guess I'll throw my hat in the ring-- Richard Hidalgo.

IndyRealist
02-02-2016, 10:15 AM
Again, like Ruth, he was the FIRST great, but in no way is he the best to ever do it. Prime Anderson Silva probably has that crown.

Silva has an argument, but so does Matt Hughes and Randy Couture. Each were dominant in their eras, but Royce dominated every competitor in the entire sport. Silva never fought GSP or Jon Jones, and at this point probably never will. Gracie beat on every top competitor in his era, 150lb to 250lb. There's a reason Rousey keeps ducking Cyborg....10lb is a huge advantage, let alone 100lb.

xbrackattackx
02-02-2016, 10:17 AM
Just chillin with a couple buddies and we started talking and it made me think...

Gretzky, Jordan, Ruth,Brady amoung others... amoung every sport (NBA,NHL,NFL,MLB).. who is the greatest athlete of all time?

im thinking overall, the top 2 are..

1A) Michael Jordan (NBA)
1B)Wayne Gretzky (NHL)

Among bro, Among.

tredigs
02-02-2016, 11:10 AM
Silva has an argument, but so does Matt Hughes and Randy Couture. Each were dominant in their eras, but Royce dominated every competitor in the entire sport. Silva never fought GSP or Jon Jones, and at this point probably never will. Gracie beat on every top competitor in his era, 150lb to 250lb. There's a reason Rousey keeps ducking Cyborg....10lb is a huge advantage, let alone 100lb.

Silva never fought out of his weight division because the sport is FAR advanced from its sideshow-level roots. It's sanctioned now, and let's just say we're not going to have any more sumo wrestlers fighting in the heavyweight bouts at this point. Gracie was the first to know BJJ at a high level in the sport, and at this point EVERYONE knows at the very least some BJJ (most are advanced), along with a myriad of other disciplines. It's not the same sport. Silva/Fedor/Jones/GSP >> Couture/Hughes/Gracie.


I don't know about other US sports, but it's Ali over Jordan. And Michael Phelps is up there.

You'd get a lot of push-back in an All Time debate against that for people on Sugar Ray or possibly even Mayweather. But definitely Sugar Ray. I'd definitely think Jordan would win a higher total if only analysts from each sport were to vote on these (just sticking to the major year round sports). I'm sure this poll has been done plenty of times btw.

Scoots
02-02-2016, 11:19 AM
1. Wayne Gretzky
2. Jerry Rice
3. Alexander Karelin

Hawkeye15
02-02-2016, 11:42 AM
Ron Jeremy

Scoots
02-02-2016, 12:04 PM
Ron Jeremy

He's A goat ... not THE GOAT :)

Pfeifer
02-02-2016, 12:11 PM
Hockey : Gretzky/Lemieux, I personally think Lemieux but it's a toss up.

Basketball : Really tough because of different eras but it's MJ.

Baseball : Another hard one but the best player I ever watched was Griffey. Just IMO.

Football : no real way to say best ever because of position but best QB I have seen was Marino/Montana.

Soccer : I think it has to be Messi. He is Maradonna but conditioned and not drunk.

Tennis : Federer. No explanation needed.

Boxing : My fav is Gatti but best ever is tough. Ali was great. Foreman was amazing. Too tough to say.

Golf : Tiger

Honerable mention to guys like Gordie Howe who I think is still playing pro hockey lol. Obviously Ruth, Bonds, ect. Boxing with Tyson, Klitchko, Lewis, ect. Basketball is the only slam dunk with Jordan (pun intended).

ATX
02-02-2016, 12:13 PM
I think any greatest of all time athlete conversation needs to certainly involve Bo Jackson.

Scoots
02-02-2016, 12:16 PM
I think any greatest of all time athlete conversation needs to certainly involve Bo Jackson.

I left him out because he didn't win or last long enough.

PhillyFaninLA
02-02-2016, 12:29 PM
jordan and gretzky are probably right on point....jerry rice and jim brown are the greatest nfl players to have ever played,but jordan and gretzky were next level in their respectful sports...ali was great,but old timers would argue sugar ray robinson and rocky marciano were better boxers

I'd take mario lemieux of gretzky. yes, stats say gretzky is the way to go. I have watched both and if you have equal talent at all positions I think Mario is the better player. Gretzky could sneeze and get an assist with that team.

I'm not saying Gretzky isn't great but I never saw a guy in the NHL do what Mario did pre cancer.

IndyRealist
02-02-2016, 12:33 PM
Silva never fought out of his weight division because the sport is FAR advanced from its sideshow-level roots. It's sanctioned now, and let's just say we're not going to have any more sumo wrestlers fighting in the heavyweight bouts at this point. Gracie was the first to know BJJ at a high level in the sport, and at this point EVERYONE knows at the very least some BJJ (most are advanced), along with a myriad of other disciplines. It's not the same sport. Silva/Fedor/Jones/GSP >> Couture/Hughes/Gracie.


The same logic could be applied to basketball. It's not the same sport as it was in the 90s. Players are bigger, stronger, faster, and the rules are vastly different post Shaq, with hand checking, zone, etc. So Lebron >> Jordan.

This is always the issue comparing across eras.

homie564
02-02-2016, 12:34 PM
Gretzky/Orr dominated their time periods unlike other in hockey. If Orr had played londer, this would he him and it wouldnt even be close (not even figuratively, it literally wouldn't be close lol). Orr may have the best prime in all of sports while Gretzky may be the best "GOAT". Football is way too hard to judge... There's too many players who dominated their positions, and are impossible to compare.

Vinylman
02-02-2016, 12:39 PM
People saying ali is laughable and obviously didn't watch many of his fights...

one of the most overrated fighters ever

dude lost so many fights that were fixed ... jimmy young beat the living **** out of him and couldn't get the decision...

ATX
02-02-2016, 12:39 PM
I was using the literal sense of the question when he asked who is the GOAT "Athlete" , but that differs from the thread title where it just says who is the GOAT...If that's the case you have to make a strong case to not take Jordan.

tredigs
02-02-2016, 12:39 PM
I think any greatest of all time athlete conversation needs to certainly involve Bo Jackson.

Lol? For best player in a video game maybe. Love Bo but c'mon now.

Edit: Nevermind, just saw your explanation in the next post. That makes much more sense.

Munkeysuit
02-02-2016, 01:08 PM
It's honestly a toss up between Ali and Jordan, either could be the greatest of all time.

Lil Rhody
02-02-2016, 01:19 PM
Stevie nicks

tredigs
02-02-2016, 01:23 PM
The same logic could be applied to basketball. It's not the same sport as it was in the 90s. Players are bigger, stronger, faster, and the rules are vastly different post Shaq, with hand checking, zone, etc. So Lebron >> Jordan.

This is always the issue comparing across eras.

Lol no, in no way is that the same logic, and I'm missing your leap of "Lebron >>> Jordan", as if Jordan wouldn't dominate currently as well. If anything it would be like comparing 1940's NBA basketball in its infancy to the current NBA, and saying George Mikan is GOAT.

PhillyFaninLA
02-02-2016, 01:35 PM
Gretzky/Orr dominated their time periods unlike other in hockey. If Orr had played londer, this would he him and it wouldnt even be close (not even figuratively, it literally wouldn't be close lol). Orr may have the best prime in all of sports while Gretzky may be the best "GOAT". Football is way too hard to judge... There's too many players who dominated their positions, and are impossible to compare.

Orr is a great name to add, I almost added him to my post.

IKnowHoops
02-02-2016, 03:47 PM
Silva has an argument, but so does Matt Hughes and Randy Couture. Each were dominant in their eras, but Royce dominated every competitor in the entire sport. Silva never fought GSP or Jon Jones, and at this point probably never will. Gracie beat on every top competitor in his era, 150lb to 250lb. There's a reason Rousey keeps ducking Cyborg....10lb is a huge advantage, let alone 100lb.

Prime Roy Jones Jr is the most dominating force in boxing history

IKnowHoops
02-02-2016, 03:49 PM
Ron Jeremy

Wesley Pipe

IKnowHoops
02-02-2016, 03:54 PM
For football, I love Bo, but because he was equally as awesome and played longer, for me the football GOAT is Barry Sanders!!

Pfeifer
02-02-2016, 04:04 PM
The more I think about it, you have to go with Michael Phelps.

IndyRealist
02-02-2016, 04:35 PM
Lol no, in no way is that the same logic, and I'm missing your leap of "Lebron >>> Jordan", as if Jordan wouldn't dominate currently as well. If anything it would be like comparing 1940's NBA basketball in its infancy to the current NBA, and saying George Mikan is GOAT.

There is a thread RIGHT NOW about how different the NBA is compared to a couple of years ago, thanks to the Warriors. The 90s was a vastly different era, players weren't the physical specimens they are today, and the rules are almost alien by comparison. Handchecking and zone completely changed defense. A "good hard playoff foul" then is a flagrant 2 now.

I"m not arguing that Lebron > MJ, I'm arguing that your logic could be applied just as easily to the NBA, which is why you don't compare across eras you compare a player's dominance within his era. And no one dominated his competition like Royce Gracie did.

He may not be the GOAT of GOATS, but not for any of the reasons you outlined.

tredigs
02-02-2016, 05:05 PM
There is a thread RIGHT NOW about how different the NBA is compared to a couple of years ago, thanks to the Warriors. The 90s was a vastly different era, players weren't the physical specimens they are today, and the rules are almost alien by comparison. Handchecking and zone completely changed defense. A "good hard playoff foul" then is a flagrant 2 now.

I"m not arguing that Lebron > MJ, I'm arguing that your logic could be applied just as easily to the NBA, which is why you don't compare across eras you compare a player's dominance within his era. And no one dominated his competition like Royce Gracie did.

He may not be the GOAT of GOATS, but not for any of the reasons you outlined.
Sorry dude, but you're failing here. Comparing a sport in its true infancy to a sport that was 50 years in and some argue as "The Golden Era", is just ridiculous. The changes from the 80's/90's bball to now are highly nuanced in comparison to the massive fundamental differences in both the fighters and the sport as a whole from UFC1-4 tournament fighting to what the sport is today. He had a 2 year reign against terrible one-dimensional competition. That is nothing close to what we have seen since. He was a pioneer and I guess you could say an "honorary GOAT" for what he helped implement into the modern game, but like any sport in its first few years, it has changed massively since its onset. It would be akin to calling Bart Starr the GOAT for the NFL.

Scoots
02-02-2016, 05:23 PM
For football, I love Bo, but because he was equally as awesome and played longer, for me the football GOAT is Barry Sanders!!

Barry was great, and easily one of the best players in NFL history to watch play the game ... but Jerry Rice got all the records AND played longer than anybody at his position and played at a high level.

IIRC, I was watching a Raiders game (don't remember who the opponent was) and Tim Brown caught his 1000th pass. The game was stopped and he was presented with the game ball and they made a thing out of it. Game starts back up and Rice (Brown's teammate at the time) catches a TD which was his 1500 something catch for his 200 something TD, he flipped the ball to the ref and jogged to the sideline.

Football is hard to evaluate because the different players play such different games and football is so dependent on the TEAM ... I had Jim Brown at the top, Barry made it high up the list ... but nobody in football ever got so far out in front in records that it was an afterthought. NFL films did the top 10 WRs of all time not named Jerry Rice because they knew the gap from Rice to everybody else was so big.

That said, Gretzky is still my number one GOAT ... and I lived in Pittsburgh in Gretzky's prime and was a Penguins/Lemieux fan. To do what Gretzky did with his size/speed limitations is even more amazing. Heck even my spell check knows "Gretzky" :)

joshhorvath
02-03-2016, 01:29 AM
a few more names i thought of were Roger Federer,Tiger Woods & Jack Nickalus

IKnowHoops
02-03-2016, 02:18 AM
The more I think about it, you have to go with Michael Phelps.

Probably, but Usain deserves some consideration.

IKnowHoops
02-03-2016, 02:28 AM
Barry was great, and easily one of the best players in NFL history to watch play the game ... but Jerry Rice got all the records AND played longer than anybody at his position and played at a high level.

IIRC, I was watching a Raiders game (don't remember who the opponent was) and Tim Brown caught his 1000th pass. The game was stopped and he was presented with the game ball and they made a thing out of it. Game starts back up and Rice (Brown's teammate at the time) catches a TD which was his 1500 something catch for his 200 something TD, he flipped the ball to the ref and jogged to the sideline.

Football is hard to evaluate because the different players play such different games and football is so dependent on the TEAM ... I had Jim Brown at the top, Barry made it high up the list ... but nobody in football ever got so far out in front in records that it was an afterthought. NFL films did the top 10 WRs of all time not named Jerry Rice because they knew the gap from Rice to everybody else was so big.

That said, Gretzky is still my number one GOAT ... and I lived in Pittsburgh in Gretzky's prime and was a Penguins/Lemieux fan. To do what Gretzky did with his size/speed limitations is even more amazing. Heck even my spell check knows "Gretzky" :)

Rice does have the career stats argument for sure, but I'd take Randy Moss over Jerry Rice. I have no doubt that if Randy Moss had Joe Montana/Steve Young for the first 13 years of his career, his stats would be stupid.

Conversely Barry did what he did in the worst of conditions.

At the end of the day, its the film that I look at. Barry Sanders is truly one of a kind. On a quickness scale from 1-10 he's playing with a 12. Jerry Rice is the man, and even though I'd rather have Randy, I have no problem with people taking Rice over Moss. He was a very good athlete with the best skills of any WR ever. Having watched both there careers, I would go with Randy. And Barry is the greatest player Ive ever seen play. Bo is right there with Barry though.

LA_Raiders
02-03-2016, 02:38 AM
Kobe, Messi

JJ_JKidd
02-03-2016, 02:56 AM
Muhammad Ali

PhillyFaninLA
02-03-2016, 06:59 AM
Probably, but Usain deserves some consideration.

Carl Lewis and Michael Johnson did much more then Usain did...you also have some guys that faced steroid suspensions and haven't been able to compete against Usain, he is great and super fast but he lost some of his best competition.

IndyRealist
02-03-2016, 10:09 AM
Sorry dude, but you're failing here. Comparing a sport in its true infancy to a sport that was 50 years in and some argue as "The Golden Era", is just ridiculous. The changes from the 80's/90's bball to now are highly nuanced in comparison to the massive fundamental differences in both the fighters and the sport as a whole from UFC1-4 tournament fighting to what the sport is today. He had a 2 year reign against terrible one-dimensional competition. That is nothing close to what we have seen since. He was a pioneer and I guess you could say an "honorary GOAT" for what he helped implement into the modern game, but like any sport in its first few years, it has changed massively since its onset. It would be akin to calling Bart Starr the GOAT for the NFL.

This is the point were neither of us are saying anything new and just shouting louder, so agree to disagree.

TRIUMPHATOR
02-03-2016, 10:34 AM
I'd take mario lemieux of gretzky. yes, stats say gretzky is the way to go. I have watched both and if you have equal talent at all positions I think Mario is the better player. Gretzky could sneeze and get an assist with that team.

I'm not saying Gretzky isn't great but I never saw a guy in the NHL do what Mario did pre cancer.

Blasphemy!

Even if it was that easy for him to rack up all those assists (more assists than any other players total combined points), you forgot to mention that he scored the most goals ever.

Now is he the best Goat ever? There have been some intriguing names in this thread, but my vote is yes.

JasonJohnHorn
02-03-2016, 04:39 PM
Gretzky/Orr dominated their time periods unlike other in hockey. If Orr had played londer, this would he him and it wouldnt even be close (not even figuratively, it literally wouldn't be close lol). Orr may have the best prime in all of sports while Gretzky may be the best "GOAT". Football is way too hard to judge... There's too many players who dominated their positions, and are impossible to compare.

Gretzky and Curry have a similar situation: they are both on stacked teams that one, and they were the best players on those teams. Gretzky moved on, the Oilers still won without him. That says something.

Gretzky was amazing. Obviously. But Mario Lemieux played in the same era and he had some amazingly dominant play that I think you can fairly argue was on a par with The Great One, and on top of it, he had to battle cancer.

Gretzky dominated the window of time during which he played in Edmonton on an incredibly stacked team, but one his own, though his individual play was stellar, he didn't do a lot of winning, and I think you could argue that Lemieux was as dominant as Gretzky was.

jerellh528
02-03-2016, 08:55 PM
Undertaker 21-1

europagnpilgrim
02-05-2016, 10:41 PM
Just chillin with a couple buddies and we started talking and it made me think...

Gretzky, Jordan, Ruth,Brady amoung others... amoung every sport (NBA,NHL,NFL,MLB).. who is the greatest athlete of all time?

im thinking overall, the top 2 are..

1A) Michael Jordan (NBA)
1B)Wayne Gretzky (NHL)

solo most dominating act via athletes has to be none other than Wilt Norman Big Dipper Chamberlain, and its not even close with him being able to play multiple sports and Olympic athlete, he was also a true giant like Andre the Giant wrestler but he was in supreme top flight shape

heard he played pick up with the young Orlando Shaq Diesel and was moving him around like a rag doll at the age of either or pushing 50yrs old, at 45 years old teams were trying to sign him to come back and play, I don't know about greatest but he sure was the most dominant,best

had they kept track of blocks in his early days he would avg. a triple double for his entire career

had it been about just scoring Wilt said he would have averaged 40-70ppg, prior to his 100pt game he was on like a 10 game tear of averaging 70ppg

numba1CHANGsta
02-05-2016, 11:46 PM
It's Jordan easily, name me one athlete that has had the biggest impact not only in sports but in society and the world? Jordan is a global icon and is the biggest influential sports athlete of all time. If you were to ask kids today what sports player they would most want to be like, the vast majority would say MJ. Even someone who plays football, or baseball, or hockey, etc., they all say they want to be the MJ of that sport.

tredigs
02-06-2016, 12:08 AM
It's Jordan easily, name me one athlete that has had the biggest impact not only in sports but in society and the world? Jordan is a global icon and is the biggest influential sports athlete of all time. If you were to ask kids today what sports player they would most want to be like, the vast majority would say MJ. Even someone who plays football, or baseball, or hockey, etc., they all say they want to be the MJ of that sport.

I highly, highly doubt that. European kids would say Messi or Ronaldo, South Americans might say Neymar, and in the US the kids would say Tom Brady or Cam or Curry or Lebron. I highly doubt MJ has that much influence on little kids right now.

tigers.6
02-06-2016, 01:11 AM
This is a discussion that will not be easily resolved. No way there is a clear cut #1 when you are looking across soooo many sports.

Soccer: Ronaldo (Messi, Pele)
Basketball: Jordan (Wilt, Russell)
Football: Sanders (Rice, Brown)
Baseball: Bonds (Cobb, Ruth)
Swimming: Phelps (**** if I know)
Running: Bolt (Johnson, Lewis, Owens)
Boxing: Tyson (Ali, Louis)
Lacrosse: Rabil (Grant, Powell, Brown)
Hockey: Gretzky (Lemieux, Orr, Howe, Bossy)

Every single one of those guys can be argued being the greatest of their sport, or not. In my opinion the two hardest sports to classify as having a "greatest' player is football, due to so many different positions, and hockey. So many great players have played these sports, hard to pick the "GREATEST" across all.

But, what the hell, I'll say the greatest 'athlete' is Jim Brown.

urban85disciple
02-06-2016, 10:38 AM
Jahangir Kahn.

Look him up.

tigers.6
02-06-2016, 11:19 AM
Jahangir Kahn.

Look him up.

psssh, I'd squash him.

IndyRealist
02-06-2016, 02:15 PM
Jahangir Kahn.

Look him up.

555 games undefeated. Holy sh**.

europagnpilgrim
02-06-2016, 03:33 PM
It's Jordan easily, name me one athlete that has had the biggest impact not only in sports but in society and the world? Jordan is a global icon and is the biggest influential sports athlete of all time. If you were to ask kids today what sports player they would most want to be like, the vast majority would say MJ. Even someone who plays football, or baseball, or hockey, etc., they all say they want to be the MJ of that sport.

Wilt came high flying into a euro-white era and completely changed it along with Russell and others after, thing is its hard to want to be like a giant because of his height but he was clearly more dominant as a solo act, blocking 25 shots in many games when blocks were not kept track as stats and having the ability to score 80-100 points a game and grab 40-50 boards a game is nothing to ever compare to, they made rules to cater to Jordan they made rules to hinder Wilt, they didn't follow basketball back in Wilts day like now but he made everyone take notice, he got drafted by Chiefs as TE, played guard for the globetrotters and had Ali the boxing legend attention in a verbal agreement match that never made it to fruition.

Wilt ran 880 dash in less than 2 minutes, shot put over 50 feet, and high jumped Jordans listed height prior to joining the nba, he would have been a dominant athlete in basically any sport

when a player dislocates another players shoulder from a blocked shot on any level let me know, Wilt did that to Gus Johnson in a actual nba game and in college he use to jump from free throw line and dunk those in,nuff said

he was the most athletic and strongest athlete across the board ever, moving-lifting 280lb guys around like a cup of coffee