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View Full Version : Should Cavaliers & Clippers swap PGs? Kyrie Irving-Chris Paul trade?



kobe4thewinbang
01-26-2016, 02:42 AM
http://m.bleacherreport.com/articles/2610896-what-does-nba-2k-say-about-cleveland-cavaliers-trading-for-chris-paul

Thoughts? Article says Clippers should willingly take a step back while Spurs and Warriors wallop each other and take a younger PG over Paul, who will be 31 soon? They did a project with 2K and CP3's Cavaliers won more within 20 playoff simulations. LeBron would have another ball handler, but I dunno, guess it's better than Irving's Wade-like scoring mentality.

goingfor28
01-26-2016, 02:55 AM
It's certainly an interesting thought

Jeffy25
01-26-2016, 03:01 AM
Helps the Clippers in the long run, helps the Cavs for the next two years

BKLYNpigeon
01-26-2016, 03:03 AM
maybe next season, too big of a trade to make mid season.

jerellh528
01-26-2016, 03:17 AM
Yea they should, clippers main pieces Blake and deandre are relatively young still and would be able to grow with kyrie. Meanwhile cp3 and Lebron can do their best to get a ring, maybe Lebron is that missing piece cp3 needs to finally win one. I think both teams would actually be cool with this.. cavs in win now mode with their roster and James' age, and clips get one of the better young pgs in the game not yet at his peak with plenty of star power.

IKnowHoops
01-26-2016, 03:59 AM
Because of age, to even it up, Id need a package deal of CP3 and Blake for Kyrie and Love. A trade of this magnitude would add some serious spice to this NBA season. It think something huge is going to happen trade wise because no team as currently constructed has any semblance of a chance against GS.

ManningToTyree
01-26-2016, 04:03 AM
While it's incredibly rare when two star players are traded for each other (even more so at the same position) this actually makes a lot of sense.

MTar786
01-26-2016, 04:59 AM
if i were the clippers i would just trade paul for irving now and have the cavs overpay. Clips have no chance vs the warriors anyway. No one does. they should trade for the long term now.

Chronz
01-26-2016, 05:12 AM
Would Doc do it? It would help both teams cuz Cp3 can still defend and can be trusted to actually run the offense before falling into iso . Still, i do like the Blake fit with Kyrie but the guy has progressed slower than expected defensively and he wouldn't help DJs game as much

More-Than-Most
01-26-2016, 05:12 AM
Yes the cavs should... He would be the perfect fit for their team but I think the clippers would have to give up more... You dont just trade away someone with kyries potential for a 31 year old superstar

IKnowHoops
01-26-2016, 05:43 AM
Would Doc do it? It would help both teams cuz Cp3 can still defend and can be trusted to actually run the offense before falling into iso . Still, i do like the Blake fit with Kyrie but the guy has progressed slower than expected defensively and he wouldn't help DJs game as much

Would Love help DJs game?


Yes the cavs should... He would be the perfect fit for their team but I think the clippers would have to give up more... You dont just trade away someone with kyries potential for a 31 year old superstar

Thats why I think a Paul/Griffin for Irving/Love is in order. Just turn the league upside down.

I do think Cp3 would really help Brons game and efficiency. At this stage playing strictly the 3 would be awesome for Bron, and having Blake in Lue's faster pace style would be a better fit.

Would love to see that team. #pipedreambutstill

basch152
01-26-2016, 05:58 AM
This is about the only blockbuster trade speculation I've ever seen that actually makes sense.

Aleksandar
01-26-2016, 12:58 PM
Personally, I think Paul is better player than Irving will ever be. Love gets a lot of blame for his defense, but Kyrie may be an equally big reason the Cavs are behind Warriors/Spurs right now. That's just me though.

I would never do it, if I'm Clippers.

aman_13
01-26-2016, 01:03 PM
I like this idea. More so for Paul because I really want him to win a ring. I don't think it will happen with the Clippers.

valade16
01-26-2016, 01:03 PM
Personally, I think Paul is better player than Irving will ever be. Love gets a lot of blame for his defense, but Kyrie may be an equally big reason the Cavs are behind Warriors/Spurs right now. That's just me though.

I would never do it, if I'm Clippers.

While I agree you have to remember CP3 is 30. Kyrie Irving is 23. Blake is 26 and Jordan is 27, so you'd have a longer time with the group together by trading CP3 for Kyrie.

Scoots
01-26-2016, 01:52 PM
If I'm the Cavs yes, the Clips no.

mngopher35
01-26-2016, 01:57 PM
I wouldn't mind this cause I think it's cp3s best shot at a ring...

How long will he stay better than kyrie though, like 2 more years?

Hawkeye15
01-26-2016, 02:02 PM
I don't think Irving has grown much since his first year. Still a putrid defender, who dribbles the air out of the ball at times. I don't like his fit next to Griffin as much as I do CP3's

JasonJohnHorn
01-26-2016, 02:09 PM
I had suggested this as soon as LBJ went back to Cleveland. It makes more sense for LBJ to run with a guy who's skill set is already fully developed, and CP3 would be better for Love than Kyrie.


Also, CP3 has that killer instinct where he busts his @$$ of on every play.

But that said... it seems obvious that the Clips are getting the short end of the deal, and though people might say "Kyrie is younger" there is no promise that he will stay in LAC.

Vee-Rex
01-26-2016, 02:19 PM
I had suggested this as soon as LBJ went back to Cleveland. It makes more sense of LBJ to run with a guy who's skill set is already fully developed, and CP3 would be better for Love than Kyrie.


But that said... it seems obvious that the Clips are getting the short end of the deal, and though people might say "Kyrie is younger" there is no promise that he will stay in LAC.

Kyrie still has 4 years left on his contract, and it's a pretty good contract considering how high the cap will be extending. There's a decent chance CP3 would not be a major piece in LAC's title contention in 4 years, so it really wouldn't matter if Kyrie left after his contract.

Edit: I suppose the argument could be made that the Clippers would be worse off short-term and kill their title chances, so my above comment is null if Kyrie left.

I realize with CP3 the Cavs would be a better team. It's a better fit for us. I'd be sad to lose Kyrie though since he's my favorite player.

BKLYNpigeon
01-26-2016, 02:28 PM
you know, CP3 is more ball dominate the Kyrie.

you think lebron wants to play pick and roll? lol.

Tony_Starks
01-26-2016, 02:30 PM
CP3 is wasted next to Lebron. He dominates the ball too much. He doesn't have the range of Kyrie nor the slashing skills of Wade to adapt, and we all know Lebron needs the rock so really what's the purpose? It would be in name only.

Wrigheyes4MVP
01-26-2016, 02:34 PM
Makes sense for both teams, but its hard to trade CP3 for a player who will never be as good as he is now.

mavwar53
01-26-2016, 02:58 PM
Awful trade for the clips cp3 is the only player besides Pierce that brings any sense of winning attitude on the Clips. Irving can't carry a team the way CP3 does.

Nikeman
01-26-2016, 03:42 PM
3 things:

1) Cp3 will be better than Irving ever is, and Irving is injury prone as hell even at 23. cp3 doesn't have a game predicated on athleticism, and provided he remains healthy, I think he could be an 18/10 guy until 35. Blake has been out for a while, and I still think that team is a couple players away from being very good. They've been searching for a player to take over the SF player for it seems like a decade now. They've brought in many players who just haven't worked out, lance Stephenson, josh smith, etc etc. They have a good starting 5 that I think can play with anyone, the bench is what kills them.

2) To those saying Cp3 is the perfect fit for LeBron, nobody who needs the ball is a good fit next to LeBron. LeBron is too ball dominate and requires players to alter their game significantly to accommodate him. Cp3 may be a better fit than Irving, but when his game will be altered significantly playing with Bron.

3) By doing this, you kill Cleveland's future. Currently constructed, with Kyrie at 23 and Love at 26, two of out of Cleveland's Big 3 is built to play another decade with LeBron maybe 5 years. You guys already traded 20 year old Wiggins, I don't think they want to get any older.

phantasyyy
01-26-2016, 04:14 PM
I too think that CP3 skills would be a lot more redundant next to Lebron.. with both requiring the ball to make plays and such. But you also have to take in to account that it allows CP3 to play off the ball as well which up to this date hasn't happened all that much. If there is one knock against Paul its the fact that he rarely takes over a game with his scoring prowess choosing to get his teammates involved and such and I think playing off Lebron would open up Paul to put up some gaudy scoring numbers..

That said a straight up trade of Kyrie for CP3 would be overwhelmingly in the Cavs favour.. As others have mention Kyrie imo just isn't as good as fit on the Clippers roster as CP3 would be after an adjustment period. Sure he is a lot younger I don't think his skill set would mesh as nicely with Blake/DJ, as he is more in the mould of combo-guard..as in a SG in a PG's body. Not to mention it will weaken the Clippers already weak perimeter defense.

I mean if your the Cavs you would be all over it, but for the Clippers its probably not something as enticing since they are essentially in a win-now mode and doing so would set back the franchise a year or two as the chemistry needs to be rebuilt and the offensive system revamped.

bucketss
01-26-2016, 04:33 PM
It's certainly an interesting thought

beasted86
01-26-2016, 04:36 PM
I'm confused why people are talking about Kyrie Irving as if he is going to help the Clippers retool and get better long term.... :confused:

Please explain. Anyone?

Kyrie has never helped anyone win anything but high lottery picks. If Clippers were going for full rebuild mode, they should have done a trade like this 6 months ago and let DJ walk at the same time, and not bring in old vets like Pierce and Smith, while keeping Crawford. It's pointless now.

Irving is a 2nd or 3rd option complimentary player who isn't worth a superstar like CP3 straight up. Any number of add-on draft picks from the Cavs are fruitless unless they are to be received 5 years from now without lottery protection.

Chronz
01-26-2016, 06:19 PM
CP3 is wasted next to Lebron. He dominates the ball too much. He doesn't have the range of Kyrie nor the slashing skills of Wade to adapt, and we all know Lebron needs the rock so really what's the purpose? It would be in name only.
That's what they said about Wade and Bron and Wade declined fast. Sometimes talent trumps fit and the truth is, Bron is handling ball more than he ever has, in part because Kyrie is such an average facilitator. Bron could use the help.

This also neglects the fact that CP3 is one of the few impact defenders at the 1, so you don't need the ball to experience that upgrade.

Chronz
01-26-2016, 06:24 PM
I'm confused why people are talking about Kyrie Irving as if he is going to help the Clippers retool and get better long term.... :confused:

Please explain. Anyone?

Kyrie has never helped anyone win anything but high lottery picks. If Clippers were going for full rebuild mode, they should have done a trade like this 6 months ago and let DJ walk at the same time, and not bring in old vets like Pierce and Smith, while keeping Crawford. It's pointless now.

Irving is a 2nd or 3rd option complimentary player who isn't worth a superstar like CP3 straight up. Any number of add-on draft picks from the Cavs are fruitless unless they are to be received 5 years from now without lottery protection.
I'd rather lose and have the best team possible than hope for the future but it Would bring in a cheaper contract and give the team more time to find guys to grow with the younger core. Its more about the window than anything. Blake's facilitation skills are on full display without CP3 so i think we could survive more than most but im conflicted on this

KDSpurman4
01-26-2016, 06:28 PM
How does this help the Clippers?

I see irving as a non competitive person and a player that is average 15 ppg on 40% shooting. That's Wesley Matthews.

Vinylman
01-26-2016, 07:05 PM
3 things:

1) Cp3 will be better than Irving ever is, and Irving is injury prone as hell even at 23. cp3 doesn't have a game predicated on athleticism, and provided he remains healthy, I think he could be an 18/10 guy until 35. Blake has been out for a while, and I still think that team is a couple players away from being very good. They've been searching for a player to take over the SF player for it seems like a decade now. They've brought in many players who just haven't worked out, lance Stephenson, josh smith, etc etc. They have a good starting 5 that I think can play with anyone, the bench is what kills them.

2) To those saying Cp3 is the perfect fit for LeBron, nobody who needs the ball is a good fit next to LeBron. LeBron is too ball dominate and requires players to alter their game significantly to accommodate him. Cp3 may be a better fit than Irving, but when his game will be altered significantly playing with Bron.

3) By doing this, you kill Cleveland's future. Currently constructed, with Kyrie at 23 and Love at 26, two of out of Cleveland's Big 3 is built to play another decade with LeBron maybe 5 years. You guys already traded 20 year old Wiggins, I don't think they want to get any older.

The bolded is hilarious... no one will be playing in Cleveland once Lebron is gone ... the city is a **** hole and the organization is garbage... the Cavs have a 3-4 year window and it doesn't look good right now...

WaDe03
01-26-2016, 07:15 PM
McRoberts for Irving. I think it's a perfect swap because when McRoberts plays the 20 games he plays in a season he only looks to pass which would give LeBron all of Irvings shots. If McRoberts is wide open for a layup he will find a way to pass it to LeBron and that will only build good chemistry for the team as a whole.

WaDe03
01-26-2016, 07:18 PM
How does this help the Clippers?

I see irving as a non competitive person and a player that is average 15 ppg on 40% shooting. That's Wesley Matthews.

Make as many threads/posts as you can in the hour you have left before you're banned yet again. I have faith in you.

valade16
01-26-2016, 07:24 PM
How does this help the Clippers?

I see irving as a non competitive person and a player that is average 15 ppg on 40% shooting. That's Wesley Matthews.

Wesley Matthews is one of the most competitive players in the NBA... Smh

beasted86
01-26-2016, 08:08 PM
I'd rather lose and have the best team possible than hope for the future but it Would bring in a cheaper contract and give the team more time to find guys to grow with the younger core. Its more about the window than anything. Blake's facilitation skills are on full display without CP3 so i think we could survive more than most but im conflicted on this

What window? Trading Paul for Irving closes the window and puts you in no man's land. Too good to win the lottery, too bad to make the playoffs or be any sort of threat if you sneak in. Like I said, if they were going this way then they needed to do it months back and approach free agency differently.

I could see the Clippers as a full on clone of the Kings with one superstar (Griffin/Cousins), and one good player who puts up stats, but doesn't contribute a whole lot to wins (Gay/Irving). LAC does have Jordan, but he probably regresses with a much weaker facilitator and a lesser pick and roll threat. Also something has to be said for Paul's leadership, love him or hate him.

If I'm Balmer, no way I can sign off on that trade. I'm sticking with the ship with Paul, Griffin, Jordan and simply hoping to get a nice young wing in free agency instead like Harrison Barnes as my solution to try and lengthen the window.

Jeffy25
01-26-2016, 08:20 PM
Yea they should, clippers main pieces Blake and deandre are relatively young still and would be able to grow with kyrie. Meanwhile cp3 and Lebron can do their best to get a ring, maybe Lebron is that missing piece cp3 needs to finally win one. I think both teams would actually be cool with this.. cavs in win now mode with their roster and James' age, and clips get one of the better young pgs in the game not yet at his peak with plenty of star power.

And Kyrie can shoot his heart out, where as it's possibly hurting the Cavs to have him do that.

Chronz
01-26-2016, 08:42 PM
What window? Trading Paul for Irving closes the window and puts you in no man's land.
It closes that window for the foreseeable future but it also elongates our window to eventually find the right pieces around a new big-3 beyond years 2-3.


Too good to win the lottery, too bad to make the playoffs or be any sort of threat if you sneak in.
If relatively healthy (which is a gamble with Kyrie), I dont see them sneaking in, but comfortably in, albeit without HCA, and thats with a young Kyrie.


Like I said, if they were going this way then they needed to do it months back and approach free agency differently.
But things dont always work that way, now we went all in and Doc the Dunce isn't a master of free agency, he foolishly denied Whiteside the chance to earn a roster spot among other baffles, he needs as many cracks at this thing as he can get if hes gonna stay in charge.


I could see the Clippers as a full on clone of the Kings with one superstar (Griffin/Cousins), and one good player who puts up stats, but doesn't contribute a whole lot to wins (Gay/Irving). LAC does have Jordan, but he probably regresses with a much weaker facilitator and a lesser pick and roll threat. Also something has to be said for Paul's leadership, love him or hate him.

Agreed, the only hope that its not that drastic, Blake isn't the playmaker CP3 is, especially in the PnR, but the hope is that Irving can make the basic pass that allows Blake to pick apart the defense. I mean Blake does a good job of that with a bum like Austin running the O, we would be around a .450 team without CP3 (assuming everyone else is healthy) so adding Irving at least makes us a .550 team, you find the right fit around those guys and your contending again.


If I'm Balmer, no way I can sign off on that trade. I'm sticking with the ship with Paul, Griffin, Jordan and simply hoping to get a nice young wing in free agency instead like Harrison Barnes as my solution to try and lengthen the window.

I would stay the course too but its not an absurd proposition. Im not all that familiar with the cap specifics but I dont know how much we could improve without a big discount (the way the top 2 teams currently enjoy). I honestly dont know what to make of Blake, hes yet to find any consistency defensively and his offense (while elite) isn't that hard to replace because wings have it easier than bigs. Blakes never had a team built around his unique skills so I would be open to it but at the same time, Im not sold on his emergence so CP3 is a mandatory presence for contention, much more than BG, but how long can CP3 stay at this level? Kyrie might be a nice option in 2 years when its too late to trade for him. Sometimes I wish we never traded for CP3 and kept the eventual #1 pick, just because we would have sucked a few years and acquired some draft talent without Doc interfering. A more well rounded team can defeat high end talented clubs with flaws up and down the roster.

basch152
01-26-2016, 10:31 PM
I don't understand why people think it would be a bad trade for the clippers.

With cp3 you have what, 3 years left at most? Do you really think the clippera are going to do anything in the next three years with the warrios and spurs playing like they are?

On the other hand with irving you have a good 10 years to build a team.

beasted86
01-26-2016, 11:32 PM
I don't understand why people think it would be a bad trade for the clippers.

With cp3 you have what, 3 years left at most? Do you really think the clippera are going to do anything in the next three years with the warrios and spurs playing like they are?

On the other hand with irving you have a good 10 years to build a team.
Firstly that's carrying a lot of assumptions on Paul's ability to extend his career, and on both Irving's free agency decisions and on his health.

But assuming things go something like you suggest... 3 years of a superstar end of prime Chris Paul or 10 years of 23 year old Rudy Gay? Is there anyone who takes Rudy Gay over his past 10 years in the NBA?

To make a somewhat more lifelike analogy based on actual history, 3 years of end of prime Shaq, or the next 10 years of 24 years old at the time Lamar Odom with the HEAT?

I guess that's all what it comes down to. How you evaluate Irving as a talent and how much you think he can help a team win. For those who value Irving a lot this seems reasonable.

Chronz
01-26-2016, 11:37 PM
Firstly that's carrying a lot of assumptions on Paul's ability to extend his career, and on both Irving's free agency decisions and on his health.

But assuming things go something like you suggest... 3 years of a superstar end of prime Chris Paul or 10 years of 23 year old Rudy Gay? Is there anyone who takes Rudy Gay over his past 10 years in the NBA?

To make a somewhat more lifelike analogy based on actual history, 3 years of end of prime Shaq, or the next 10 years of 24 years old at the time Lamar Odom with the HEAT?

I guess that's all what it comes down to. How you evaluate Irving as a talent and how much you think he can help a team win. For those who value Irving a lot this seems reasonable.
I would take the final 3-4 years of Shaq in this scenario.

KnicksorBust
01-26-2016, 11:40 PM
Great trade for the Clippers.

Chronz
01-27-2016, 12:01 AM
Great trade for the Clippers.

You a big fan of his? If there were a way for him to just gracefully study CP3's positioning in the PnR and when to gamble for steals, he'd be a 2-way player. Instead hes the kind to challenge Kobe 1v1 when he should be learning the nuances of controlling a game with your passing. Hes young and talented tho

mrblisterdundee
01-27-2016, 07:58 PM
maybe next season, too big of a trade to make mid season.

I think Chris Paul could fit pretty seamlessly into running Cleveland's offense, while letting LeBron James play more off the ball. Plus Paul provides way better defense than Kyrie Irving. I think Paul and James can be a part of a big three for at least another five years. Maybe they go the Spurs way and take pay cuts in their mid-30s, allowing Cleveland to retool while keeping that veteran advantage.
I would not trade Blake Griffin for Kevin Love, though. Irving might be young and have potential as a big-time scorer, but Griffin is the best asset in that entire scenario. I think Irving for Paul is fair, considering where each team is at.

mrblisterdundee
01-27-2016, 08:13 PM
The bolded is hilarious... no one will be playing in Cleveland once Lebron is gone ... the city is a **** hole and the organization is garbage... the Cavs have a 3-4 year window and it doesn't look good right now...

Totally; take two desperate all-time greats; put them in a desperate city; and let them go FU mode all the way to the promised land for the next few years. And even when Paul and James decline significantly, they could be like Tim Duncan and Manu Ginobili, playing 20-25 minutes per game and taking salary cuts to help their team retool around them and continue competing even longer. Of course, the Spurs also have highly competent ownership.

Bostonjorge
01-27-2016, 10:27 PM
I say make it happen give Cleveland paul and Griffen. Warriors still win a title. Curry's greatness would take a huge leap and cap off the greatest season for sure.

Meth
01-28-2016, 01:58 AM
would someone elaborate as to why Chris Paul is a great fit for the Cavs especially playing with Lebron? would the Cavs drastically improve?

DetroitBadBoy
01-28-2016, 11:53 AM
Put LeBron in as your starting point guard, huge mismatch every night if they build the team correctly around him. Go out and target big guards and big SFs with 2 way ability using Kyrie and Love as the trade chips. Both have had opportunities to try and lead a team as number 1 options with unimpressive results. Both have been unimpressive sidekicks to LeBron. They are very expendable and could result in getting back some good 2 way players.

Cleveland's front office has failed LeBron time and time again to put the right pieces around him. Trading for Love was big but they sacrificed the next potential phenom at the time(who has turned into a two way stud), to get him.

KnicksorBust
01-28-2016, 12:39 PM
You a big fan of his? If there were a way for him to just gracefully study CP3's positioning in the PnR and when to gamble for steals, he'd be a 2-way player. Instead hes the kind to challenge Kobe 1v1 when he should be learning the nuances of controlling a game with your passing. Hes young and talented tho

I actually am a big Kyrie guy. When healthy he is a special offensive player. TBH if I was Doc and actually had to make the trade, I probably keep Paul and just try and win the title every year that I have him. But I do think that Kyrie is so dynamic offensively and his ability to play off the ball would work really with Griffin who is an underrated passer imo. There is no doubt DeAndre would suffer from the switch though.