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View Full Version : Kevin Love is what gives the Spurs or Warriors the edge in the Finals!



Derick713
01-15-2016, 05:13 AM
Kevin Love just isn't versatile enough to off-set the damage that Green, Barnes, Aldridge, and Diaw do. When Love is on the floor he's a liability given he's not long, agile, quick, tall, or athletic enough to minimize the effect of Spur and Warrior players. When you watch the Cavs play against the Warriors or Spurs it's clear they lack advantages. Plus LeBron James on the backside of his prime isn't enough to make-up the difference. The Cavs have to work so hard to stop the Spurs and Warriors and then need complete games from Irving and James to have a shot at being in the games. The Cavs and Spurs will forces James and Irving to work so hard that it's possible the Cavs will get overwhelmed in a series because the quality of depth is so one-sided.

The Spurs and Warriors are complete teams that can negate James and Irving with the likes of Curry, Parker, Leonard, and Iguodala. The rest of the Cavs roster doesn't seem to stack up with the likes of Thompson, Green, Barnes, Livingston, Aldridge, Diaw, Mills, and Ginobili.

There's one team that has the players the Cavs need and that's the Pelicans. The Pelicans are in rebuilding mode and will look to deal Gordon, Asik, Anderson, and maybe Evans. The Cavs need to make a deal simply to match-up with the Spurs and Warriors. The Cavs need to make it easier on James and Irving and that means they need pieces that fit better than what they have. Right now it's hard to tell where the Cavs will get consistent offensive outside of Irving, Smith, and James. The Cavs really need one more play maker that can get them over the top.

More-Than-Most
01-15-2016, 05:40 AM
Looked fine tonight :shrug:

They have the team they have... Are the spurs and warriors better? Yes... But with how talented all 3 of these teams are anything can happen in a 7 game series.

Honestly it seems like the NBA forum just hates Love and Derozan for some really odd reason.

YAALREADYKNO
01-15-2016, 09:31 AM
Looked fine tonight :shrug:

They have the team they have... Are the spurs and warriors better? Yes... But with how talented all 3 of these teams are anything can happen in a 7 game series.

Honestly it seems like the NBA forum just hates Love and Derozan for some really odd reason.

Don't forget Kobe and Iverson

BKLYNpigeon
01-15-2016, 10:03 AM
Love is the weak Link on the Cavs.

Yanks All Day
01-15-2016, 10:03 AM
Cleveland lost by 6 in Golden State to the defending champs and 4 in San Antonio to the team playing the best basketball in the NBA. They're ok.

Kevin Love is at a disadvantage defensively, but he's also a mismatch on offense. He'll give you typically 15-20 points and 10 rebounds. He's not the problem. Last night, San Antonio's biggest strength wasn't down low. The rebounding numbers were almost the same. It was backup point guard play. Matthew Dellavedova looked over-matched out there when trying to run the offense. He is what he is: a backup defensive PG who can hit 3s and throw lobs to Thompson. But every time he put the ball on the floor, something bad happened.

I know Mo Williams didn't play, so they actually have a solution there, but if the strategy is to let Matthew Dellavedova handle the ball when Kyrie Irving sits, that's a recipe for disaster against good teams. Still, losing by 4 in San Antonio (where the Spurs are now 23-0) isn't reason to write anything off, especially in January.

PayDaPiper
01-15-2016, 10:33 AM
But if Love was healthy last year don't the Cavs win it all? lol

D-Leethal
01-15-2016, 10:50 AM
If Chris Bosh in Miami was used the same way he was used offensively but had Love type defense they probably don't win any chips. If you aren't utilizing Love for this full capabilities on offense he is a huge net negative because he is a sieve on D and doesn't bring much intangible play to the table at all outside of outlet passing.

SteBO
01-15-2016, 10:59 AM
Until Love becomes more of a focal point for their offense, threads like this are gonna continue to pop up. D-Leethal is spot on with his post....and it's the only thing skeptical I have to say about Blatt's lineup change to insert Thompson there. Maybe a Cavs fan can enlighten me here, but TT doesn't strike me as a rim protector....

BKLYNpigeon
01-15-2016, 11:20 AM
Love is a Way better player then David Lee.

but, they said the same thing when David Lee was on the Warriors. He produced great numbers, was an Allstar, but what just terrible on defense. Drayman Green stepped into the starting line up last year and the rest is history.

Tony_Starks
01-15-2016, 11:27 AM
Love is a defensive liability but his range and rebounding more than compensate for it.

If and when they lose it won't be because of lack of talent, they have the pieces to win multiple chips.

Just so happens Spurs vs Warriors is the real NBA Finals this year.

Vee-Rex
01-15-2016, 12:02 PM
Love is what he is. There's no way around it. Cavs got the pieces, but the Spurs/Warriors are just legendary-style teams.

Losing to GS by 6 in GS and to SA by 4 in SA isn't anything to panic about. It's not that the Cavs are bad - the Spurs/Warriors are just extraordinary and have extraordinary coaches (when Kerr comes back at least). They're still human though, so nothing is guaranteed.

RenegadeRiot36
01-15-2016, 12:17 PM
Love was fine last night, he's not the problem. I think the major issues for them are a mixture from drop in the offense when Delly is in and poor shooting from Kyrie recently. He looks just as electric, if not more electric as before the injury but having watched him the last several games he still hasn't gotten his shot under him yet. He used to be automatic with most of these shots that he's missing. Once he gets it figured out, I'm sure they'll be fine.

The Cavs are also very susceptible to team wide shooting slumps, and they really look bad when they happen (i.e. 3rd quarter, most of 4th in last night's game). That is a problem that needs to be managed.

kdspurman
01-15-2016, 12:22 PM
Love started out well in the 1st, but they absolutely went at him in the 4th quarter and exposed him defensively.

http://www.si.com/nba/2016/01/15/spurs-cavaliers-finals-matchup-lebron-james-kevin-love-defense

He can be a factor as we saw early on, at least offensively. He is who he is defensively, but he still doesn't seem fully integrated yet offensively, and as long as they're healthy now, they'll have time to figure it out

KnicksorBust
01-15-2016, 12:32 PM
Love started out well in the 1st, but they absolutely went at him in the 4th quarter and exposed him defensively.

http://www.si.com/nba/2016/01/15/spurs-cavaliers-finals-matchup-lebron-james-kevin-love-defense

He can be a factor as we saw early on, at least offensively. He is who he is defensively, but he still doesn't seem fully integrated yet offensively, and as long as they're healthy now, they'll have time to figure it out

What a great breakdown. Fundamentally (reference intentional) Love just makes so many critical mistakes.

Hawkeye15
01-15-2016, 12:35 PM
With Irving/James dominating the ball so much, Love is relegated to a spot up shooter and rebounder.

Is what it is.

KnicksorBust
01-15-2016, 12:41 PM
With Irving/James dominating the ball so much, Love is relegated to a spot up shooter and rebounder.

Is what it is.

Yep it Bosh in Miami again. Offensively someone has to take a hit and it's again going to be the big man in this modern game where playmakers rule the day. I just caught this though...


The Cavs really need one more play maker that can get them over the top.

If LeBron James and Kyrie Irving isn't enough playmaking then dear god my Knicks are screwed.

Bron > Kobe
01-15-2016, 01:03 PM
Don't forget Kobe and Iverson

And Melo and Isiah Thomas

TrueFan420
01-15-2016, 01:52 PM
What gives the Warriors and Spurs the edge over the Cavs is that those two teams players are fully committed to the team first and foremost. Cavs players don't seem to have fully bought in. As well as the Warriors and Spurs star players being able/willing to play off the ball. This enables their magnificent offenses to move the ball and always find open looks. The Cavs team relies on Bron, Irving and to a lesser degree Love to create open looks for others around them not good ball movement.

Hawkeye15
01-15-2016, 01:54 PM
What gives the Warriors and Spurs the edge over the Cavs is that those two teams players are fully committed to the team first and foremost. Cavs players don't seem to have fully bought in. As well as the Warriors and Spurs star players being able/willing to play off the ball. This enables their magnificent offenses to move the ball and always find open looks. The Cavs team relies on Bron, Irving and to a lesser degree Love to create open looks for others around them not good ball movement.

I think it is more so that they have LeBron who barely cares about the regular season, and their other 2 stars have minimal playoff experience. I don't know if that team will ever have the chemistry of GS or SA for instance.

Tony_Starks
01-15-2016, 03:09 PM
Keep in mind how deep the Cavs are in the front court. They have the luxury of being able to pay offense defense with Love/ TT/Andy.

It's not like they have to live and die with Love, that's why they were so successful in their playoff run last year.

Irving is crucial to championship hopes tho....

TrueFan420
01-15-2016, 03:14 PM
I think it is more so that they have LeBron who barely cares about the regular season, and their other 2 stars have minimal playoff experience. I don't know if that team will ever have the chemistry of GS or SA for instance.

Maybe but for me it's not about the records of the regular season but more so how they look. The Warriors and Spurs teams look close. And they all either make sacrifices for the betterment of the team in some way (some more than others but all of them non the less). Both teams star players are also effective with/without the ball allowing for their role players to get great looks and for themselves without having to create it on their own. Lebron and Irving are not great off the ball which makes the offensive system that the Warriors and Spurs run to excellence harder for the Cavs to emulate. They rely on their stars to get theirs and create for the role players. Whereas the Warriors and Spurs offenses are designed to move the ball and often find open looks for their role players on the 3rd or 4th pass.

Hawkeye15
01-15-2016, 03:27 PM
Maybe but for me it's not about the records of the regular season but more so how they look. The Warriors and Spurs teams look close. And they all either make sacrifices for the betterment of the team in some way (some more than others but all of them non the less). Both teams star players are also effective with/without the ball allowing for their role players to get great looks and for themselves without having to create it on their own. Lebron and Irving are not great off the ball which makes the offensive system that the Warriors and Spurs run to excellence harder for the Cavs to emulate. They rely on their stars to get theirs and create for the role players. Whereas the Warriors and Spurs offenses are designed to move the ball and often find open looks for their role players on the 3rd or 4th pass.

I agree with all of that actually. But keep in mind, both Irving, and Love, were #1 options on bad teams and had to do everything. This is still all new to them. The Warriors and Spurs players evolved into what they are together. There is a reason throwing together a team of stars isn't typically the answer for long term success against a teams that was built through the draft and came up together. Sure pure talent sometime will overcome (Miami for example), but to be successful for the long haul, the Spurs model wins everytime.

Quinnsanity
01-16-2016, 03:52 AM
People really don't appreciate Kevin Love anymore. More than any other big man in the league, he is the one who presents the biggest problem to Golden State's death lineup. Draymond gives up way too much size to him down low, but fronting him presents other issues because he's a good enough shooter that Cleveland could just go the other way and send him curling back around the other way to take pop-a-shot 3's. It becomes a pick your poison scenario not unlike the choice teams have to make against the Curry-Draymond PnR late in games. Most teams choose to blitz Curry and use Iggy's defender to meet Draymond, and then hope Iggy misses. Kevin Love is a much more dangerous offensive player than Iggy, and though the plays are obviously very different the dynamic is similar. Draymond could front Love and then chase him around, opening up the paint for LeBron, or he could let Love post up and hope for the best despite Love's awesome post skills and five-inch height advantage.

As far as San Antonio goes, I'm comfortable enough with Love on Duncan. It's not ideal, but I think Love's biggest defensive deficiency is his reaction time. It's not like Duncan is going to zoom past him, everything he does at this point is so deliberate that Love should theoretically be able to keep up and do a passable job. If anything, the team that terrifies me against Love specifically is the Clippers, but they won't get out of the West. Blake does very well against Love. But again, non factor.

KnicksorBust
01-16-2016, 11:36 AM
Maybe but for me it's not about the records of the regular season but more so how they look. The Warriors and Spurs teams look close. And they all either make sacrifices for the betterment of the team in some way (some more than others but all of them non the less). Both teams star players are also effective with/without the ball allowing for their role players to get great looks and for themselves without having to create it on their own. Lebron and Irving are not great off the ball which makes the offensive system that the Warriors and Spurs run to excellence harder for the Cavs to emulate. They rely on their stars to get theirs and create for the role players. Whereas the Warriors and Spurs offenses are designed to move the ball and often find open looks for their role players on the 3rd or 4th pass.

I agree with all of that actually. But keep in mind, both Irving, and Love, were #1 options on bad teams and had to do everything. This is still all new to them. The Warriors and Spurs players evolved into what they are together. There is a reason throwing together a team of stars isn't typically the answer for long term success against a teams that was built through the draft and came up together. Sure pure talent sometime will overcome (Miami for example), but to be successful for the long haul, the Spurs model wins everytime.

I dont know if that is true.

Lakers add Gasol = two titles
Boston adds KG and Ray = title first season
Miami adds Bron-Bosh = two titles

Talent is still number 1.

ewing
01-16-2016, 01:00 PM
Keep in mind how deep the Cavs are in the front court. They have the luxury of being able to pay offense defense with Love/ TT/Andy.

It's not like they have to live and die with Love, that's why they were so successful in their playoff run last year.

Irving is crucial to championship hopes tho....


absolutely, he need to go ham for them to win a title. Love a good player, he's just a whipping boy

blahblahyoutoo
01-16-2016, 01:34 PM
Love started out well in the 1st, but they absolutely went at him in the 4th quarter and exposed him defensively.

http://www.si.com/nba/2016/01/15/spurs-cavaliers-finals-matchup-lebron-james-kevin-love-defense

He can be a factor as we saw early on, at least offensively. He is who he is defensively, but he still doesn't seem fully integrated yet offensively, and as long as they're healthy now, they'll have time to figure it out

the author is grasping here. there were maybe 2 bad, even embarrassing, defensive lapses in that video but the rest weren't his fault. duncan scoring on him is a bad defensive play? nword please.

basch152
01-16-2016, 02:00 PM
I dont know if that is true.

Lakers add Gasol = two titles
Boston adds KG and Ray = title first season
Miami adds Bron-Bosh = two titles

Talent is still number 1.

This is horrible logic.

The lakers needed a big man to run their triangle offense, and were lost without one. They wete dominating with bynum before gasol got there before he went down with injury.

Kg and ray again, actually filled purposes. They gave you an all time great defender and 3 pt shooter.

Bron and bosh didn't mix well.

Love is one of the best offensive players in the nba, but he's relegated to 3rs option in cleveland, and most of his offensive talent is wasted, and suddenly the offense that had made up for his bad defense his entire career wasn't covering it up as much. Love is just a terrible player to have as a third option. The cavs didn't need more scoring, they needed a defender and rebounder that could occasionally score.

Love needs to be on a team where he can lead an offense and be the main scorer while being surrounded by strong defenders to make up for his weak defense.

kdspurman
01-16-2016, 02:20 PM
the author is grasping here. there were maybe 2 bad, even embarrassing, defensive lapses in that video but the rest weren't his fault. duncan scoring on him is a bad defensive play? nword please.

Not even close.. Did you read what he wrote or just look at the videos? The Duncan fadeaway was obviously better offense and defending pretty well. But it was emphasizing the point how they went right at Love to close out the game because that was their easiest exploit.

He made some poor decisions and his instincts defensively aren't very good.

flea
01-16-2016, 02:24 PM
This is horrible logic.

The lakers needed a big man to run their triangle offense, and were lost without one. They wete dominating with bynum before gasol got there before he went down with injury.

Kg and ray again, actually filled purposes. They gave you an all time great defender and 3 pt shooter.

Bron and bosh didn't mix well.

Love is one of the best offensive players in the nba, but he's relegated to 3rs option in cleveland, and most of his offensive talent is wasted, and suddenly the offense that had made up for his bad defense his entire career wasn't covering it up as much. Love is just a terrible player to have as a third option. The cavs didn't need more scoring, they needed a defender and rebounder that could occasionally score.

Love needs to be on a team where he can lead an offense and be the main scorer while being surrounded by strong defenders to make up for his weak defense.

Lol what? Bosh is the perfect big man for Lebron, I can't think of a better one in the NBA still. They won 2 titles and 4 EC championships together...

Quinnsanity
01-16-2016, 03:59 PM
Wait can we not make Bosh/Love comparisons? Bosh turned himself into the perfect modern big man to coexist with LeBron. He grew into an excellent defender who could blitz the PnR in Miami's scheme without compromising the integrity of the entire defensive structure as he was fast enough to race back inside or rotate to the corner if need be (well... until that Spurs series). He got better and better at catching and shooting to the point that it's now probably his most dangerous offensive weapon. Oh, and he's a GREAT passer. Love is very different. He processes things slowly. The key to playing with LeBron as a big man is reaction time. That's why he struggles. That's never been Bosh's problem. The only real similarities are that they're both bigs and they both became the third option when they joined LeBron.

Arch Stanton
01-16-2016, 04:49 PM
I just think they will need some time to incorporate Kyrie and Shump back in the line up. Love started the season well. Since last January 13, 2015, the Cavs are 43-5 with Love, James, and Irving in the line up. LeBron is statistically much better with KLOVE in the line up. They haven't had a whole lot of time to practice with everyone back. When they get the opportunity, they need to develop packaged plays featuring Love, for the Spurs and Warriors.

Derick713
01-16-2016, 11:05 PM
The Cavs have a match-up nightmare if they face the Spurs in the Finals. Love and Thompson don't have a single advantage over Aldridge and Duncan. Love and Thompson are undersized while having less offensive potential when compared to Aldridge and Duncan. James will be worn down by Kawhi and Irving will be batting Parker. The Cavs have less depth and their star players will have to work so hard to get anything easy. The Spurs can count on getting timely shots from Mills, Green, and Ginobili. West and Diaw also give the Spurs great options and mins off the bench.

Arch Stanton
01-16-2016, 11:24 PM
The Cavs have a match-up nightmare if they face the Spurs in the Finals. Love and Thompson don't have a single advantage over Aldridge and Duncan. Love and Thompson are undersized while having less offensive potential when compared to Aldridge and Duncan. James will be worn down by Kawhi and Irving will be batting Parker. The Cavs have less depth and their star players will have to work so hard to get anything easy. The Spurs can count on getting timely shots from Mills, Green, and Ginobili. West and Diaw also give the Spurs great options and mins off the bench.

Huh? Love/TT out-scored Duncan/Aldridge 28-15 this past Thursday, so I'm not sure you can say it's a match up nightmare. I'm not discrediting the Spurs, as they are a great team. But the Cavs played poorly and only lost by 6 in SAS. Kyrie has only played 12 games and is getting back to form. I'd still probably take the Spurs over the Cavs in the finals, if all are healthy. But I think it's pretty close.

Arch Stanton
01-16-2016, 11:27 PM
^^^ and Love/TT out rebounded Duncan/Alridge 26-14, so yeah you're full of it.

Arch Stanton
01-16-2016, 11:32 PM
The Cavs have a match-up nightmare if they face the Spurs in the Finals. Love and Thompson don't have a single advantage over Aldridge and Duncan. Love and Thompson are undersized while having less offensive potential when compared to Aldridge and Duncan. James will be worn down by Kawhi and Irving will be batting Parker. The Cavs have less depth and their star players will have to work so hard to get anything easy. The Spurs can count on getting timely shots from Mills, Green, and Ginobili. West and Diaw also give the Spurs great options and mins off the bench.

Okay you must be a Spurs homer. Cavs also have a pretty deep bench. Delly, Mills's Aussie Bros., is shooting over 40% from 3. Cavs also have a bench including AV, Jefferson, Shump, and Mo Williams. Good luck in Cleveland in 2 weeks. Maybe we will get some homer calls like the Spurs had on Thursday?

kdspurman
01-16-2016, 11:39 PM
Huh? Love/TT out-scored Duncan/Aldridge 28-15 this past Thursday, so I'm not sure you can say it's a match up nightmare. I'm not discrediting the Spurs, as they are a great team. But the Cavs played poorly and only lost by 6 in SAS. Kyrie has only played 12 games and is getting back to form. I'd still probably take the Spurs over the Cavs in the finals, if all are healthy. But I think it's pretty close.

I don't think either team played well. It came down to defense honestly. Spurs were on their 3rd game in 4 nights, and up until then LMA had been playing very well.

It's tough to really take much from 1 regular season game. I don't think either side can claim much of an advantage, aside from coaching and defense from the Spurs side.

But from an individual player standpoint, there's no clear advantages. Yes SA went at Love a lot to close the game, but who knows maybe next time he goes off on the other end

Arch Stanton
01-16-2016, 11:48 PM
I don't think either team played well. It came down to defense honestly. Spurs were on their 3rd game in 4 nights, and up until then LMA had been playing very well.

It's tough to really take much from 1 regular season game. I don't think either side can claim much of an advantage, aside from coaching and defense from the Spurs side.

But from an individual player standpoint, there's no clear advantages. Yes SA went at Love a lot to close the game, but who knows maybe next time he goes off on the other end

No doubt! And I completely agree. I was just responding to the OP who stated that Duncan/Aldridge were a match up nightmare for Love/TT, when the stats from Thursday's game prove otherwise. As I said, I think SAS is a better team, assuming they are healthy. But the Cavs have a legitimate shot against them in a 7 game series IMO.

kdspurman
01-16-2016, 11:54 PM
No doubt! And I completely agree. I was just responding to the OP who stated that Duncan/Aldridge were a match up nightmare for Love/TT, when the stats from Thursday's game prove otherwise. As I said, I think SAS is a better team, assuming they are healthy. But the Cavs have a legitimate shot against them in a 7 game series IMO.

Match up nightmare is totally a stretch. The guy I thought who would have the biggest impact didn't play much (Diaw), and maybe that was design by Pop. West was our best big ..

JR and Kyrie terrify me personally, cause they can get hot so quickly. When you have firepower like that, you'll always have a shot. I'm not mentioning LeBron cause I feel somewhat better with Kawhi battling him lol.

Arch Stanton
01-17-2016, 12:17 AM
Match up nightmare is totally a stretch. The guy I thought who would have the biggest impact didn't play much (Diaw), and maybe that was design by Pop. West was our best big ..

JR and Kyrie terrify me personally, cause they can get hot so quickly. When you have firepower like that, you'll always have a shot. I'm not mentioning LeBron cause I feel somewhat better with Kawhi battling him lol.

I'm more terrified of SAS than GS, because of Leonard. He is the ultimate LeBron stopper. And an MVP candidate. No disrespect to GS, but I think we have a better shot against them over SAS. That game where Kyrie had 57 last year Parker had 30, which is pretty good. Spurs also have one of the greatest coaches so yeah....

Bostonjorge
01-17-2016, 12:48 AM
I'm more terrified of SAS than GS, because of Leonard. He is the ultimate LeBron stopper. And an MVP candidate. No disrespect to GS, but I think we have a better shot against them over SAS. That game where Kyrie had 57 last year Parker had 30, which is pretty good. Spurs also have one of the greatest coaches so yeah....

Golden state just had the finals shock. OKC big 3 got it and James got it in his first two. No way curry, klay and green all disappear in the finals again. I can see love and Irving getting getting finals shock. Golden state is winning the title this year. Golden state don't have to worry about James as much as Cleveland has to worry about Curry.

ewing
01-17-2016, 01:32 AM
I don't think either team played well. It came down to defense honestly. Spurs were on their 3rd game in 4 nights, and up until then LMA had been playing very well.

It's tough to really take much from 1 regular season game. I don't think either side can claim much of an advantage, aside from coaching and defense from the Spurs side.

But from an individual player standpoint, there's no clear advantages. Yes SA went at Love a lot to close the game, but who knows maybe next time he goes off on the other end

i disagree. You guys have a clear advantage on the bench. The Cavs have clear edge with top tear talent.

Arch Stanton
01-17-2016, 02:05 AM
Golden state just had the finals shock. OKC big 3 got it and James got it in his first two. No way curry, klay and green all disappear in the finals again. I can see love and Irving getting getting finals shock. Golden state is winning the title this year. Golden state don't have to worry about James as much as Cleveland has to worry about Curry.

So your saying San Antonio has no shot then, correct?

Derick713
01-17-2016, 02:59 AM
Maybe nightmare match-up was a bit of a stretch. In a Finals match-up the Spurs will be a more locked in animal than they already are. I don't think Aldridge and Duncan will find it overly difficult defending Love and Thompson. I can safely assume that Aldridge and Duncan will be well rested in a series given the quality of West and Diaw as back-ups. A series with the Spurs could tire out Love and Thompson given they will have to work harder on both ends more so than Duncan and Aldridge. If The Spurs expose a match-up and force LeBron to defend a PF or C then that makes Kawhi even more dangerous. The Cavs don't really have an offensive or defensive difference maker that plays center or power forward. The Cavs front court is a glue/guts front court that does all the dirty work and gets buckets when their available. There's a reason that David Blatt wasn't playing Love in 4th quarters last season.

Arch Stanton
01-17-2016, 03:26 AM
Maybe nightmare match-up was a bit of a stretch. In a Finals match-up the Spurs will be a more locked in animal than they already are. I don't think Aldridge and Duncan will find it overly difficult defending Love and Thompson. I can safely assume that Aldridge and Duncan will be well rested in a series given the quality of West and Diaw as back-ups. A series with the Spurs could tire out Love and Thompson given they will have to work harder on both ends more so than Duncan and Aldridge. If The Spurs expose a match-up and force LeBron to defend a PF or C then that makes Kawhi even more dangerous. The Cavs don't really have an offensive or defensive difference maker that plays center or power forward. The Cavs front court is a glue/guts front court that does all the dirty work and gets buckets when their available. There's a reason that David Blatt wasn't playing Love in 4th quarters last season.

Come on dude! A finals series between these two teams comes down to the LeBron/Leonard, and Irving/Parker match-ups. I love Tim Duncan, he's a HOF, but he nor Aldridge are the BIG concern for this potential series. LeBron is the best player on the court, on most days, and Leonard is a LeBron stopper. Can LeBron overcome this? If not, can Blatt game plan to get Leonard off LeBron or use Irving to take advantage of this scheme? I'm way more concerned with Leonard and Parker than I am with 39 year old Duncan and Aldridge, who also isn't a great defender.

Bostonjorge
01-17-2016, 05:13 AM
So your saying San Antonio has no shot then, correct?

I'm saying Cleveland has no shot. I still favor GS over SA. Home court and have multiple defenders to throw at Leonard. GS just look invisible right now. Also having the best player in basketball gives you the edge.

murphturph
01-17-2016, 10:54 AM
Just imagine this line up, and cap flexibility sheesh.
Iriving
Shump
Wiggins
Lebron
Thompson/Mozzy

Talk about mismatches and versatility. And the Cavs could afford more peaces. Thank god Wiggins ended up with the Wolves.

Arch Stanton
01-17-2016, 01:17 PM
Just imagine this line up, and cap flexibility sheesh.
Iriving
Shump
Wiggins
Lebron
Thompson/Mozzy

Talk about mismatches and versatility. And the Cavs could afford more peaces. Thank god Wiggins ended up with the Wolves.

Lol... Except Wiggins is a poor shooter, so he couldn't help to stretch the floor. And they'd still be over the cap or close to it. Yea thank god he's with the TWolves.

Arch Stanton
01-17-2016, 01:19 PM
I'm saying Cleveland has no shot. I still favor GS over SA. Home court and have multiple defenders to throw at Leonard. GS just look invisible right now. Also having the best player in basketball gives you the edge.

Okay, so you're a hater!!!!! Thanks!

DavidGrant
01-17-2016, 03:41 PM
LeBron can only play on the same team with three point shooters and nothing else. Because he can't score the ball in tight traffic. He doesn't have the footwork or fakes to score inside with defense around so he has to have 4 other amazing three point shooters standing on the three point line the entire game. It's really a boring style of basketball and it's not a winning style. It may get past the lackluster East with some help from the league office in the way of officiating but it will never beat a good team like the Spurs, Warriors, Clippers or Thunder.

Derick713
01-19-2016, 12:00 AM
Come on dude! A finals series between these two teams comes down to the LeBron/Leonard, and Irving/Parker match-ups. I love Tim Duncan, he's a HOF, but he nor Aldridge are the BIG concern for this potential series. LeBron is the best player on the court, on most days, and Leonard is a LeBron stopper. Can LeBron overcome this? If not, can Blatt game plan to get Leonard off LeBron or use Irving to take advantage of this scheme? I'm way more concerned with Leonard and Parker than I am with 39 year old Duncan and Aldridge, who also isn't a great defender.

At the end of the day the Spurs and Warriors have offenses that can overcome whatever the Cavs throw at them. The Cavs roster lacks play makers, shooting, and floor spacing to complete against teams that get points from everywhere. The Cavs are built around James and Irving with the hope that those two can carry the offensive load. James and Irving would be spent early in a series with the Spurs or Warriors. I think most would rank the supporting players of the Spurs and Warriors above the Cavs supporting players.

The Cavs know they will have to beat either the Spurs or Warriors in the Finals. Right now the Warriors and Spurs are deeper and more experienced. They've got better talent, shooting, versatility, depth, and coaching. Right now the Cavs just aren't on the level of the Spurs and Warriors.

I think you should be concerned with Aldridge because Pop will maximize him in a series more so than Blatt will maximize Love.

Scoots
01-19-2016, 01:05 AM
anything can happen in a 7 game series.

Actually in a 7 game series the better team tends to win while in shorter series or a single game the lesser teams have a better chance.

likemystylez
01-19-2016, 01:21 AM
Actually in a 7 game series the better team tends to win while in shorter series or a single game the lesser teams have a better chance.

He might mean injuries and/or suspensions? I would think thats the only thing he could be talking about when saying "anything could happen in a 7 game series"- but I agree- a 7 game series should make the outcome MORE predictable, and should mean picking the better team to win is a safer bet.

More-Than-Most
01-19-2016, 06:38 AM
He might mean injuries and/or suspensions? I would think thats the only thing he could be talking about when saying "anything could happen in a 7 game series"- but I agree- a 7 game series should make the outcome MORE predictable, and should mean picking the better team to win is a safer bet.

No I meant anything can happen in a 7 game series because some players get hot and others go cold... The best team doesnt always win in a 7 game series ESP out west... Matchups/Coaching/Injuries/Hot and cold streaks... I think the warriors are the best team by far this season and the most talented team we have seen since the bulls... I wouldnt be surprised if the Spurs or Thunder or Clippers knock them out... If any of these teams did would you consider them better? I sure as hell wouldnt.

Scoots
01-19-2016, 11:44 AM
No I meant anything can happen in a 7 game series because some players get hot and others go cold... The best team doesnt always win in a 7 game series ESP out west... Matchups/Coaching/Injuries/Hot and cold streaks... I think the warriors are the best team by far this season and the most talented team we have seen since the bulls... I wouldnt be surprised if the Spurs or Thunder or Clippers knock them out... If any of these teams did would you consider them better? I sure as hell wouldnt.

But the longer the series the less influence a hot streak or a cold streak has a chance of being the difference. In a single game elimination a bottom seed can advance on the back of one player having a good shooting night. In March Madness a bottom seed has a chance against a top seed, but if they played 3 game series a bottom seed would essentially never advance. In a 5 game series it's even less likely, and in a 7 game series it's incredibly unlikely.

Injuries and fatigue are always factors ... but in a 7 game series the better team is going to win the vast majority of the time.

D-Leethal
01-19-2016, 01:02 PM
They will get their clocks cleaned by GSW worse than they did last year. Last year they did as good a job as you possibly could in uglying up the game, stopping the high powered GSW offense and trying to win in low scoring, defensive battles. GSW will have no issues putting up 115+ on these guys with Love and Kyrie in the fold. Cavs can't match their offensive firepower and defensive balance.

Hawkeye15
01-19-2016, 02:04 PM
Lol... Except Wiggins is a poor shooter, so he couldn't help to stretch the floor. And they'd still be over the cap or close to it. Yea thank god he's with the TWolves.

Wolves fans are happy with the outcome. And so should Cleveland be.

BKLYNpigeon
01-19-2016, 02:47 PM
Its still a long season... Steph or Tony Parker can get injured and we would totally have a different conversation right now.

Hawkeye15
01-19-2016, 02:59 PM
Its still a long season... Steph or Tony Parker can get injured and we would totally have a different conversation right now.

so could Love or Irving

oh wait...

lamzoka
01-19-2016, 03:02 PM
As of right now the Cavs have no chance against the Spurs or the Warriors. I also think its better for LeBron's legacy to not make the Finals than getting there and losing again.

Cavs should call the Kings and see they willing to swap Cousin, Gay and Marco Belinelli for Love, Mozgov, Mo Williams and a pick. Pray Joe Johnson gets bought out after the trade deadline.

D-Leethal
01-19-2016, 03:25 PM
Spurs and Warriors are teams with balance that play like well oiled machines. Cavs are just another LeBron-led, star-laden team that was thrown together without any regard for fit and balance and it shows on the court against great teams when their talent can't just demolish their opponent. Not much different to the Miami squads.

Quinnsanity
01-19-2016, 03:57 PM
Spurs and Warriors are teams with balance that play like well oiled machines. Cavs are just another LeBron-led, star-laden team that was thrown together without any regard for fit and balance and it shows on the court against great teams when their talent can't just demolish their opponent. Not much different to the Miami squads.

I have so many problems with this post. My main one: those Miami teams played brilliantly together. They were built entirely around the open 3's LeBron creates offensively and maximizing the insane athleticism of LeBron and Wade defensively by blitzing PnRs. Those peak Miami teams were right up there with GSW and SA, this Cleveland team is probably a step behind. Though there are any number of metrics that put them right in that stratosphere when LeBron, Irving and Love are all playing at the same time. They just haven't quite figured out their rotations yet, or how to maximize everyone on the roster. I think they're a wing away as well. But the amount of crap the Cavs get for playing a lot of iso is ridiculous. I don't see how a team that's 4th in offense and 7th in defense has no regard for balance.

Hawkeye15
01-19-2016, 04:04 PM
I have so many problems with this post. My main one: those Miami teams played brilliantly together. They were built entirely around the open 3's LeBron creates offensively and maximizing the insane athleticism of LeBron and Wade defensively by blitzing PnRs. Those peak Miami teams were right up there with GSW and SA, this Cleveland team is probably a step behind. Though there are any number of metrics that put them right in that stratosphere when LeBron, Irving and Love are all playing at the same time. They just haven't quite figured out their rotations yet, or how to maximize everyone on the roster. I think they're a wing away as well. But the amount of crap the Cavs get for playing a lot of iso is ridiculous. I don't see how a team that's 4th in offense and 7th in defense has no regard for balance.

Bosh was a better fit than Love is with 2 ball dominant wings, and we aren't seeing the same LeBron we saw in Miami either, his lateral speed gets worse by the year. He was still an all world defender in Miami, he isn't anymore, and Love/Irving are putrid defenders. So I do agree this is a different scenario, and that you can't just pair it with the 3 star team he was on prior.

Scoots
01-19-2016, 05:28 PM
The Cavs are playing great D at times, and efficient O at times and their averages make them one of the best teams in the NBA ... but they seem broken at times too. It's strange because they have players who can play different ways that they can use to best effect ... but it seems like the mix isn't being managed quite right.

kubernetes
01-19-2016, 05:36 PM
Sorry, but this Cavs team is not built to beat the Spurs or Warriors.

To people who think the talent level is close, how? Where? Look at their respective rosters. Apart from Lebron and maybe Delly, the entire Cavs team is composed of one-way or one-dimensional players (or in Mozgov's case, zero dimensions). Every lineup they throw out there has glaring holes and compromises.

Now look at the Spurs and Warriors-- their rosters are full of competent two-way players. They don't give up anything when they change lineups. They can plug and play with different guys and not fear that they're giving up something on one end of the floor.

Even more specifically, look where the Cavs' starting lineup is weakest defensively: Kyrie and Love. What do the Spurs and Warriors do really really really well? The 1-4 PnR. I've long been of the opinion that if Kyrie and Love had been healthy for last years finals, the Cavs would have gotten swept. It would have turned into a shoot-out against a team that is vastly better at that style of play on both ends of the floor. The Cavs played the best series they possibly could against the Warriors--a defensive grindfest-- but their roster of one-way guys eventually showed its limitations against a well-rounded team.

murphturph
01-19-2016, 05:48 PM
Cavalier management surrounded Lebron with 2 offensive stars. They should have surrounded him with one offensive star (kyrie), and everybody else 3 and D players. Shoulddaa Kept Wiggins or at least traded him for an older defensive talent. smh

Derick713
01-20-2016, 12:00 AM
In last years Finals the Warriors might of had nerves while finding it hard to take the Cavs seriously without Love and Irving. Plus the Warriors had careless tendencies which they've reduced this season. The Cavs were fighting as hard as they could while the Warriors probably knew they would win based on their depth. Kerr played to wear down James and make sure no other Cavs players got in rhythm. The Warriors are now head and shoulders better than the Cavs and they know it.

LeBron's current Cavs are less athletic and have less floor spacing than his teams with the Heat. LeBron doesn't have parts around him that give him more space. Irving and Smith are streak shooters.

Derick713
01-20-2016, 12:20 AM
This season represents the Cavs best shot at a title. They've got the 10 Million Trade Exception and should deal Love, Varejao, and Shumpert if they can get upgrades. The Cavs should aim to have Smith, Delladova, and Thompson come off the bench.

Right now the Cavs might go after Rudy Gay, Jeff Green, and Joe Johnson.

LOb0
01-20-2016, 02:53 AM
This season represents the Cavs best shot at a title. They've got the 10 Million Trade Exception and should deal Love, Varejao, and Shumpert if they can get upgrades. The Cavs should aim to have Smith, Delladova, and Thompson come off the bench.

Right now the Cavs might go after Rudy Gay, Jeff Green, and Joe Johnson.


lol that wouldn't help at all.

LivinLakers
01-20-2016, 03:12 AM
But if Love was healthy last year don't the Cavs win it all? lol http://s.coop/1xpjb http://financeisok.com/loan/images/21.gif probably not. I think Warriors still win. But it would probably be a little closer. The Cavs are just an incomplete team. But it is not the playoffs yet. So just chill and let's see how it plays out.

Derick713
01-20-2016, 03:59 AM
There's no way of telling what would of happened in last years Finals if everything was equal. If Mozgov and Love can't make the Warriors pay for going small then the Cavs don't have a line-up that can out score the Warriors. Right now the Warriors can use Iguodala, Barnes, Green, and Thompson on James. James is really the only true small forward the Cavs have while the Warriors have 4. And all of them make 3's and play defense.

The Cavs need another forward that can make 3's and make it harder on Thompson, Green, and Iguodala. Love can't defend Green. Shumpert and Smith are too small against Thompson and Barnes.

KnicksorBust
01-20-2016, 09:04 AM
The Cavs are playing great D at times, and efficient O at times and their averages make them one of the best teams in the NBA ... but they seem broken at times too. It's strange because they have players who can play different ways that they can use to best effect ... but it seems like the mix isn't being managed quite right.

Have they really had the time to gel yet?

Scoots
01-20-2016, 11:35 AM
Have they really had the time to gel yet?

I would think a year and a half would be enough to be pretty close.

LOb0
01-20-2016, 12:26 PM
I would think a year and a half would be enough to be pretty close.


Love, Kyrie and Bron haven't played together even like half a season if I remember correctly. However I don't think that's this teams real problem.

KnicksorBust
01-20-2016, 12:32 PM
I would think a year and a half would be enough to be pretty close.

During that year and a half how often were all 3 healthy and on the court together?

Scoots
01-20-2016, 03:05 PM
During that year and a half how often were all 3 healthy and on the court together?

That's not something I have control over :)

You would think being paid millions of dollars to do something for a living they might have been able to talk over and work out how they are going to play together even if they were having trouble staying healthy. And IIRC the only player to miss significant regular season games last year was LeBron. I think Love and Irving were both well over 70 games last year and I think LeBron just under. This year Irving was certainly around for practice even when he couldn't get on the floor.

We are talking about 3 players who many were saying were top 10 in the NBA a few years ago ... they can't figure it out?

Vee-Rex
01-20-2016, 03:55 PM
That's not something I have control over :)

You would think being paid millions of dollars to do something for a living they might have been able to talk over and work out how they are going to play together even if they were having trouble staying healthy. And IIRC the only player to miss significant regular season games last year was LeBron. I think Love and Irving were both well over 70 games last year and I think LeBron just under. This year Irving was certainly around for practice even when he couldn't get on the floor.

We are talking about 3 players who many were saying were top 10 in the NBA a few years ago ... they can't figure it out?

James/Irving/Love have only lost 3 games this year:

Warriors twice
Spurs once
(Irving didn't play in that Portland loss)

Arch already stated that "Since last January 13, 2015, the Cavs are 43-5 with Love, James, and Irving in the line up."

So, I think if you're insinuating that there's something wrong with this group then you're just flat out wrong. Pre-January 13th (before trades), it made sense that they would struggle to gel a bit. The Heat's big three went through similar issues.

Can they improve? I think so, but it'll be extremely difficult and will take terrific coaching for that to happen. Are they better than GS? No. Could they ever be? Probably not. Can they still find a way to win a championship if everything goes right? Absolutely.

Honestly, people are far too critical after Monday night's game and are failing to realize it was just one game. The Cavs are too easily mentally affected during the game, and that became obvious when they let Portland decimate them after that tough Christmas day loss.

SteBO
01-20-2016, 04:42 PM
They've had enough time to figure it out....and honestly, those three guys as a whole isn't really the issue I have. It's just that if Love isn't a) getting his touches, or b) making plays when he gets his touches, then what does he bring to the table? Floor spacing? That can only carry you so far.

Wade/Bosh worked out just fine alongside 'Bron and Wade is a non-shooter. Bosh is. In CLE, both Irving and Love can shoot. Offensively, there's nothing worry about. Defensively is where the Cavs are gonna struggle against the elite of the league when said teams are at their best, not to mention that their supporting cast simply isn't as good as people made them out to be.

Laker Legend42
01-20-2016, 11:36 PM
Let me start by saying this isn't a "I hate lebron" post and at the same timeout not in support of Kevin love. This is what you get when you allow a player have control over who stays and who goes. Lebron asked for Kevin love. Now you add him to a list of other guys who need the ball in order to be effective. Kevin love just doesn't fit. That's not his fault. I think the cavs would have been better off with Wiggins. In Minnesota Kevin love was the big fish In a very small pond. At the same time it makes no sense to take a guy who likes to post up,play at the elbow as well as shoot the three and make him primarily a spot up shooter.


Doing that minimizes loves effectiveness as a rebounder. Most players today allow offense dictate how they are gonna play. If they aren't involved much on offense they won't be envolved in any other aspect of the game. I think the cavs need to trade Kevin love

Scoots
01-21-2016, 12:30 AM
James/Irving/Love have only lost 3 games this year:

Warriors twice
Spurs once
(Irving didn't play in that Portland loss)

Arch already stated that "Since last January 13, 2015, the Cavs are 43-5 with Love, James, and Irving in the line up."

So, I think if you're insinuating that there's something wrong with this group then you're just flat out wrong. Pre-January 13th (before trades), it made sense that they would struggle to gel a bit. The Heat's big three went through similar issues.

Can they improve? I think so, but it'll be extremely difficult and will take terrific coaching for that to happen. Are they better than GS? No. Could they ever be? Probably not. Can they still find a way to win a championship if everything goes right? Absolutely.

Honestly, people are far too critical after Monday night's game and are failing to realize it was just one game. The Cavs are too easily mentally affected during the game, and that became obvious when they let Portland decimate them after that tough Christmas day loss.

I was responding to someone who said they hadn't played together enough to have gelled as a team. I was contending that they should have had enough time by now. I wasn't saying anything about them as players or as a team.

YOUGOTAGETUP
01-21-2016, 12:42 AM
They've had enough time to figure it out....and honestly, those three guys as a whole isn't really the issue I have. It's just that if Love isn't a) getting his touches, or b) making plays when he gets his touches, then what does he bring to the table? Floor spacing? That can only carry you so far.

Wade/Bosh worked out just fine alongside 'Bron and Wade is a non-shooter. Bosh is. In CLE, both Irving and Love can shoot. Offensively, there's nothing worry about. Defensively is where the Cavs are gonna struggle against the elite of the league when said teams are at their best, not to mention that their supporting cast simply isn't as good as people made them out to be.

Miami actually didn't really pan out and even the former NBA players that talk on ESPN and TNT know that. They never really had a good offense. Also sometimes they'd advance in the playoffs because of the refs. Half the time you looked at their record and it would be like 20 and 20.
They got lucky to play a team that wasn't ready in the 2012 Finals and that shouldn't have even been there. That series was rigged in the WCF between SA and OKC. Then in 2013 they were saved and bailed out. They never really played great basketball. usually only averaging about 98 points and giving up something like 94.

The Cavs just need to move the ball.

YOUGOTAGETUP
01-21-2016, 12:47 AM
I was responding to someone who said they hadn't played together enough to have gelled as a team. I was contending that they should have had enough time by now. I wasn't saying anything about them as players or as a team.

usually only takes a game or so. You either can pass or you can't. this is normal for lebron, wasn't he struggling when they added Shaq, Ben Wallace and Jamison,
Also was Miami not 20 and 20 his first year in Miami? Even after in the following years they would underachieve usually to like 56 wins in an easy east.
Then now this again. Did anyone stop and think that maybe james is the james harden of the East.