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mudvayne387
01-13-2016, 09:26 AM
Nearly halfway through the season and the Knicks are one game behind the final playoff spot and only 4.5 games behind Toronto for 1st place. They are greatly exceeding expectations thanks to in large part, the unexpected contributions of Porzingis, the evolution of Carmelo's game, and veteran players like Afflalo and Lopez adding both secondary scoring and defensive intensity. Gone are the days of isolation ball and poor ball movement.

They do not have a first round pick in next years draft, but do own their 1st rounders from there on out.

So my question for non Knick fans is, how do the Knicks go from a competitive but very average Eastern Conference team to legitimate title contender in the next 2-4 years ? In other words, what is the next step in the evolution of Phil Jackson's rebuild ?

2-ONE-5
01-13-2016, 09:42 AM
i wouldnt say the are greatly exceeding expectations. Calderon, AA, Melo, Lopez alone should have been good enough to fight for the 8 seed in the East just like they are doing. As for their future youre gonna have to wait til Melo is moved and see what its for along with if Porz can take the next step over the next 2 years.

NYKnickFanatic
01-13-2016, 09:55 AM
15-2 this season, when scoring 100+.

NYKnickFanatic
01-13-2016, 09:56 AM
i wouldnt say the are greatly exceeding expectations. Calderon, AA, Melo, Lopez alone should have been good enough to fight for the 8 seed in the East just like they are doing. As for their future youre gonna have to wait til Melo is moved and see what its for along with if Porz can take the next step over the next 2 years.

A lot of people have the Knicks missing the playoffs this year.

mudvayne387
01-13-2016, 10:04 AM
A lot of people have the Knicks missing the playoffs this year.

Not only that, but the O/U from Vegas was 29.5 wins.

ewing
01-13-2016, 10:04 AM
They will continue on there current path. Melo won't be moved so long as the team appears to be progressing. They will probably look to upgrade the back court, allow KP to develop, and do there due diligence when it comes to big time FA on the market.

Bklyn24
01-13-2016, 10:07 AM
As for their future youre gonna have to wait til Melo is moved .

I disagree. The Knicks have been playing very well lately and that is mainly because of Melo. Melo is shooting less but still scoring, and at a higher percentage. He is passing, rebounding, and playing defense with a greater intensity than we have seen. If this is the Melo we are going to get get going forward(and that's a big IF,only time will tell), there is no reason for the Knicks to move him. He is making this team ALOT better right now

nycericanguy
01-13-2016, 10:41 AM
Not only that, but the O/U from Vegas was 29.5 wins.

Yup, but PHI fans are saying the Knicks are "stacked" and that's why KP has been better than Okafor...lol.

The natural development of KP & Grant could make them a contender.

But to speed things up they can sign a big like Pau or Noah this summer, two guys that would be great in the triangle. And a PG like Conley, or a wing like Batum/Bazemore. Any two of those guys + another year of KP/Grant development + another year of learning the triangle, and NY could be a top 3-4 team as soon as next year.

nycericanguy
01-13-2016, 10:43 AM
i wouldnt say the are greatly exceeding expectations. Calderon, AA, Melo, Lopez alone should have been good enough to fight for the 8 seed in the East just like they are doing. As for their future youre gonna have to wait til Melo is moved and see what its for along with if Porz can take the next step over the next 2 years.

Calderon is literally the worst starting PG in the league, why do you list him as if he' should help them make the playoffs?...lol. truth be told, Knicks probably have the worst backcourt in the NBA outside of PHI of course. It's the front court that is doing damage now with KP being a huge reason why.

2nd bold is nonsense... I've been on and off the trade Melo bandwagon, but he has bought in. So there's no reason to move him. Dude is putting up 22/8/4 and taking the fewest shots of his career. He's 31, not 35. He can grow with the team for the next 3-4 years on his contract... and as KP grows, Melo can start taking on a lessor role.

ewing
01-13-2016, 10:45 AM
Yup, but PHI fans are saying the Knicks are "stacked" and that's why KP has been better than Okafor...lol.

The natural development of KP & Grant could make them a contender.

But to speed things up they can sign a big like Pau or Noah this summer, two guys that would be great in the triangle. And a PG like Conley, or a wing like Batum/Bazemore. Any two of those guys + another year of KP/Grant development + another year of learning the triangle, and NY could be a top 3-4 team as soon as next year.

Heinkie has it hardwired into some fans (philly and outside) that to build a team you have to be as bad as possible until you have everything you need to be really good. Its not true and highly doubt Melo is going anywhere.

nycericanguy
01-13-2016, 10:46 AM
Heinkie has it hardwired into some fans (philly and outside) that to build a team you have to be as bad as possible until you have everything you need to be really good. Its not true and highly doubt Melo isn't going anywhere.

"TRUST the (lottery ball) PROCESS!"

D-Leethal
01-13-2016, 11:00 AM
"TRUST the (lottery ball) PROCESS!"

"Put all of your faith into what you can't control"

- Sam Hinkie

Toronto Homer
01-13-2016, 11:12 AM
I am a Raptors fans, so I don't like how well the Knicks are playing lately for draft pick reasons, but I am really impressed by how well Melo and KP seem to play together. I think acquiring draft picks should be something Phil should be looking to do and then build around KP, Melo, Grant and continue drafting wisely. I just don't know if the fans would welcome trading talent for picks when they are this close to the playoffs and don't own their own first rounder. They might even be able to trade for picks and remain competitive. Either way, it's good for the NBA when teams like the Knicks are doing well.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-13-2016, 11:23 AM
No pick next draft doesn't help. Backcourt needs a upgrade. Simple answer is cross your fingers in free agency. But everyone has capspace. But most likely best PG in Conley stays with Grizzlies. Also if KP is the Knicks future center then maybe try and trade Lopez for a backcourt piece. Thing is beyond Lopez Knicks don't have much for trading. KP and Melo most likely untouchable. Grant?

Calderon negative value. So I wouldn't try and combine him with anything. Jennings always was a Knicks killer back in the day. He's probably on deck to be had by Knicks. All in all i'd still look to trade Melo to Heat and try and pry away Winslow and down year Dragic. Time KP ready for prime time old Melo be declining bad like Kobe and most likely bad contract to boot on next deal.

Bklyn24
01-13-2016, 11:35 AM
Time KP ready for prime time old Melo be declining bad like Kobe and most likely bad contract to boot on next deal.

Melo is 6 years younger than Kobe. Melo will be 35 when his current deal is done. I think he still has 2-3 GOOD years left in him. By the last year of his contract, KP might be a top 5 player in the league, we may have other good pieces, and 1 year of old, slow Melo may not be a big deal

adidas2307
01-13-2016, 11:40 AM
Melo is 6 years younger than Kobe. Melo will be 35 when his current deal is done. I think he still has 2-3 GOOD years left in him. By the last year of his contract, KP might be a top 5 player in the league, we may have other good pieces, and 1 year of old, slow Melo may not be a big deal

That is quite bold...

nycericanguy
01-13-2016, 11:45 AM
That is quite bold...

He def has the potential to be, and I'd say within 2-3 years. Whether he reaches that potential or not we'll see. He has AD with a 3pt shot potential, and AD is already a top 5 player after 3-4 years. Not to mention KP is 3-4 inches taller.

The great thing about Melo/KP though is that KP will be on a rookie contract throughout Melo's deal. By the time the Knicks have to pay KP, Melo will be off the books.

So essentially the Knicks have KP & Melo locked up for 4 more years at under $30m total...leaving about $80m to fill out the rest of the roster. which is a bargain considering a guy like Derozan alone will be making close to $30m this summer and basically any good player will get $20m going forward.

ewing
01-13-2016, 11:46 AM
No pick next draft doesn't help. Backcourt needs a upgrade. Simple answer is cross your fingers in free agency. But everyone has capspace. But most likely best PG in Conley stays with Grizzlies. Also if KP is the Knicks future center then maybe try and trade Lopez for a backcourt piece. Thing is beyond Lopez Knicks don't have much for trading. KP and Melo most likely untouchable. Grant?

Calderon negative value. So I wouldn't try and combine him with anything. Jennings always was a Knicks killer back in the day. He's probably on deck to be had by Knicks. All in all i'd still look to trade Melo to Heat and try and pry away Winslow and down year Dragic. Time KP ready for prime time old Melo be declining bad like Kobe and most likely bad contract to boot on next deal.


PG is there biggest issue and there isn't an immediate answer on the horizon. They will be looking but unless they can land someone that they think is the answer would rather them stand pat until 2017 then take on a dude like Jenning. I like dennis schroder, he seems unhappy in Alt, and phil did deal with alt this summer. maybe thats a possibility. you are right, with how quickly KP is developing moving him to center makes sense, i don't know if it is Phil plan though- i think he like the twin tower idea. As for Melo the trade you purposed in the only interesting one i have seen but i don't see it happening

ewing
01-13-2016, 11:49 AM
That is quite bold...

no it isn't. You have to gamble on something unless a LeBron falls in your lap. KP developing into there next franchise player is clearly part of the plan.

D-Leethal
01-13-2016, 11:53 AM
They will continue on there current path. Melo won't be moved so long as the team appears to be progressing. They will probably look to upgrade the back court, allow KP to develop, and do there due diligence when it comes to big time FA on the market.

This - I see Phil continuing his slow, methodical approach but will certainly do his part to attract a big time star this offseason. If we don't hit a home run, I'm sure he has a plan B to keep this train moving in the right direction like he did last year.

Captain Moroni
01-13-2016, 12:57 PM
Thing is, by playing well now and being a dominant PG away from being really good, free agents will easily find NYK a place to want to go to.

da ThRONe
01-13-2016, 01:27 PM
IMO if Phil is smart he sells high(or as high as his NTC allows) on Anthony. Trade him to Chicago or Miami where he can be on a team good enough for a title and take back what you can. KP is really talented, but is still several seasons away from being a core member of a title team. Carmelo is in the tail end of his prime.

BKLYNpigeon
01-13-2016, 01:29 PM
Trade a 1st round protected pick for Jordan Clarkson.

nycericanguy
01-13-2016, 01:35 PM
IMO if Phil is smart he sells high(or as high as his NTC allows) on Anthony. Trade him to Chicago or Miami where he can be on a team good enough for a title and take back what you can. KP is really talented, but is still several seasons away from being a core member of a title team. Carmelo is in the tail end of his prime.

nonsense, you put KP on any contender right now and he'd immediately be a core piece. Several seasons away?...haha.

and what is CHI or MIA going to give us for Melo? CHI isn't trading Butler and no one else on the roster is worth Melo, and MIA only has Winslow and he is not enough.

Bklyn24
01-13-2016, 01:40 PM
That is quite bold...

it is a little bit of a bold statement but if you don't think KP has the potential to be a top 5 player in the league in about 3 years(with guys like KD and Lebron reaching the end of their prime years) then you need to start watching this kid more. 20 years old with that size, skill, and smarts hasn't been seen too often in this league

da ThRONe
01-13-2016, 01:46 PM
nonsense, you put KP on any contender right now and he'd immediately be a core piece. Several seasons away?...haha.

and what is CHI or MIA going to give us for Melo? CHI isn't trading Butler and no one else on the roster is worth Melo, and MIA only has Winslow and he is not enough.

Matter of opinions. I think this current path is putting the Knicks on course to be mediocre.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-13-2016, 01:51 PM
PG is there biggest issue and there isn't an immediate answer on the horizon. They will be looking but unless they can land someone that they think is the answer would rather them stand pat until 2017 then take on a dude like Jenning. I like dennis schroder, he seems unhappy in Alt, and phil did deal with alt this summer. maybe thats a possibility. you are right, with how quickly KP is developing moving him to center makes sense, i don't know if it is Phil plan though- i think he like the twin tower idea. As for Melo the trade you purposed in the only interesting one i have seen but i don't see it happening

Yeah I doubt Miami wants to part with Winslow even if it means landing Melo. Then again Miami might be gullible to get another big name. Just to rub it in leBron's face so who knows. So far we heard random off the wall grain of salt rumors of Melo or Cousins to Miami.

colinskik
01-13-2016, 02:06 PM
Matter of opinions. I think this current path is putting the Knicks on course to be mediocre.

Have you watched any Knicks games at all this season? KP is already a core piece. He's the second option behind Melo and the defensive anchor of the team.

colinskik
01-13-2016, 02:10 PM
IMO if Phil is smart he sells high(or as high as his NTC allows) on Anthony. Trade him to Chicago or Miami where he can be on a team good enough for a title and take back what you can. KP is really talented, but is still several seasons away from being a core member of a title team. Carmelo is in the tail end of his prime.

Trading Melo doesn't seem like a viable option any longer. Melo is relishing his role as a leader and teacher and really seems to have a connection to Porzingis. All signs point to him staying with the Knicks for the duration of his contract, if not longer. Seems like he wants to be here more than ever to help this thing succeed.

NYYCowboys
01-13-2016, 02:12 PM
They need to get some backcourt help in the worst way. Calderon and Afflalo would be decent coming off the bench, but they are a way below average starting backcourt pairing. Courtney Lee, and Kent Bazemore would be some nice under the radar FAs to sign, and then I would go all out on Mike Conley. Just on the improved defense alone that Bazemore and Conley would give them over Calderon and Afflalo would make them a contender in the east.

2-ONE-5
01-13-2016, 02:30 PM
lol wow cant even have a normal discussion without Knicks fans taking offense when there was nothing to take offense to. But hey if you wanna bank on a 34 year old Melo in a few years im sure not gonna stop you. Have fun chasing that 8 seed yet again.

bucketss
01-13-2016, 02:31 PM
for some reason i feel melos recent play is due to him getting scared he won't make the all star team.

2-ONE-5
01-13-2016, 02:33 PM
IMO if Phil is smart he sells high(or as high as his NTC allows) on Anthony. Trade him to Chicago or Miami where he can be on a team good enough for a title and take back what you can. KP is really talented, but is still several seasons away from being a core member of a title team. Carmelo is in the tail end of his prime.

how dare you have an opinion different from a knick fan, what is wrong with you and your reasonable thoguhts?

ewing
01-13-2016, 02:39 PM
lol wow cant even have a normal discussion without Knicks fans taking offense when there was nothing to take offense to. But hey if you wanna bank on a 34 year old Melo in a few years im sure not gonna stop you. Have fun chasing that 8 seed yet again.

i don't think anyone is a offended. people just disagree with the idea that you have to be awful until you have all the parts you need. ideally in 2 years Melo is a complementary part. If KP doesn't turn out to be better then andre iguodala the plan didn't work. What do you think they should look to get for Melo anyway?

Beltrans Mole
01-13-2016, 02:50 PM
The Knicks are in way better position right now then anyone and I mean anyone thought they'd be, in large part because of KP playing impactful basketball on both ends of the floor and the Knicks getting solid contributions from vets like AA, Lopez, Thomas etc. However, Melo's game has changed. Like others have stated here, the Knicks really just need a legit PG to come in via FA this summer and they will become a very, very solid team. A team capable of pretty much beating anyone on any given night. They play hard every game and it seems like Fisher is finally getting a good feel for what he wants to do with his rotations. The future is certainly bright.

lamzoka
01-13-2016, 03:12 PM
lol wow cant even have a normal discussion without Knicks fans taking offense when there was nothing to take offense to. But hey if you wanna bank on a 34 year old Melo in a few years im sure not gonna stop you. Have fun chasing that 8 seed yet again.

What is your team chasing?

2-ONE-5
01-13-2016, 03:28 PM
i don't think anyone is a offended. people just disagree with the idea that you have to be awful until you have all the parts you need. ideally in 2 years Melo is a complementary part. If KP doesn't turn out to be better then andre iguodala the plan didn't work. What do you think they should look to get for Melo anyway?

everyone went right into sixer hate mode for no reason at all just bcuz they disagreed with me, i cant lie i laughed at it though. Melo is tricky to trade bcuz only contenders have a need for him and the generally have little value to give up to make it worthwhile. I know you are all sold on KP and im not saying what he will or wont be but before trading Melo have you have to make sure he can be the guy and you wont really know that for another year or 2 despite how happy you are with his play now.

LOb0
01-13-2016, 03:35 PM
I'd shop Melo and see if Boston is willing to give up any of those Nets picks.

da ThRONe
01-13-2016, 03:37 PM
Have you watched any Knicks games at all this season? KP is already a core piece. He's the second option behind Melo and the defensive anchor of the team.

To answer your question yes. KP has an NBA skillset right now not denying that. Do I think k he can be the second best player on a ECF contenders absolutely not. The Knicks aren't even in the playoffs as of now and they have Carmelo playing some of the best ball of his career.

KP is really good but there is no need to get ahead of yourselves thinking he is that type of impact player right now. If he was the Knicks would be a top 5 in conference at the very least.

Bklyn24
01-13-2016, 03:38 PM
lol wow cant even have a normal discussion without Knicks fans taking offense when there was nothing to take offense to. But hey if you wanna bank on a 34 year old Melo in a few years im sure not gonna stop you. Have fun chasing that 8 seed yet again.

I don't think we will be banking on a 34 year old Melo to carry us. KP will be the #1 option, hopefully we will bring in another good player who can be the #2, and Melo will be the #3 option. I know theres a few "if's and maybe's" involved in that scenario but I think its pretty clear that is the direction we are heading in

ewing
01-13-2016, 03:41 PM
everyone went right into sixer hate mode for no reason at all just bcuz they disagreed with me, i cant lie i laughed at it though. Melo is tricky to trade bcuz only contenders have a need for him and the generally have little value to give up to make it worthwhile. I know you are all sold on KP and im not saying what he will or wont be but before trading Melo have you have to make sure he can be the guy and you wont really know that for another year or 2 despite how happy you are with his play now.


Well, it sounds like the Sixer's business model. what i am hearing is you don't even care what you get back so long as you get rid of him and aren't a middle rung team before the table is set.

da ThRONe
01-13-2016, 03:49 PM
Well, it sounds like the Sixer's business model. what i am hearing is you don't even care what you get back so long as you get rid of him and aren't a middle rung team before the table is set.

There are levels. Philly has commited to the long game. IMO what a franchise should do is do their best to create a window for deep playoff runs. I think by the time KP is ready to be the "guy" for deep playoffs runs Melo won't be in his prime. Therefore keeping him is counter intuitive. I think the Knicks can get a significant trade value for Melo. Would it be what he's worth no, but those type of deals where the selling team gets equal vaule for a borderline superstar is rare.

GiantsSwaGG
01-13-2016, 03:53 PM
There are levels. Philly has commited to the long game. IMO what a franchise should do is do their best to create a window for deep playoff runs. I think by the time KP is ready to be the "guy" for deep playoffs run Melo won't be in his prime. Therefore keeping him is counter intuitive. I think the Knicks can get a significant trade value for Melo. Would it be what he's worth no, but those type of deals where the selling team gets equal vaule for a borderline superstar is rare.

I actually agree, and coming from a Knicks fan trading Melo whether it be this year or next will be the next step to being in contention

ewing
01-13-2016, 04:08 PM
There are levels. Philly has commited to the long game. IMO what a franchise should do is do their best to create a window for deep playoff runs. I think by the time KP is ready to be the "guy" for deep playoffs run Melo won't be in his prime. Therefore keeping him is counter intuitive. I think the Knicks can get a significant trade value for Melo. Would it be what he's worth no, but those type of deals where the selling team gets equal vaule for a borderline superstar is rare.


Is this an episode of steinfeld? Seriously i have no idea that that means. Anyway, KP will be 23 when Melo's deal expires. Melo is not a terrible contract, it is not hamstringing NY ability to sign people, and he make NY attractive to FA now b/c the team is not awful. Again, I don't understand this idea that you need to be awful until you have every piece you need under contract at one time. It doesn't make sense and we've only seen it work when superstars team up. Its OK be a middle of the road with youth and flexibility. They are trying to build something, the hardest piece to find is that franchise guy, hopefully we found him.

nycericanguy
01-13-2016, 04:12 PM
lol wow cant even have a normal discussion without Knicks fans taking offense when there was nothing to take offense to. But hey if you wanna bank on a 34 year old Melo in a few years im sure not gonna stop you. Have fun chasing that 8 seed yet again.

No one's offended, just your posts makes zero sense. Melo is 31 now and still a 22/8/4 guy. by the time Melo is 34 we won't be "banking" on him. KP will be 23 and should be the #1 guy by then with Melo being a supporting cast 16-18ppg type player.

PHI fans claiming the Knicks are STACKED and then naming Calderon as a key piece just sounds mad salty tho, and hilarious!... Dont think I've ever seen the words STACKED, KNICKS and Calderon all in the same sentence until PHI fans started saying it...lol.

ewing
01-13-2016, 04:12 PM
I actually agree, and coming from a Knicks fan trading Melo whether it be this year or next will be the next step to being in contention

For what? The one guy gave a trade idea and honestly its not a bad one if you are sold on Goran being a legit starting PG in NY- that plus a excellent developing 2 way wing player- interesting- but explain to me "the you have to trade Melo b/c you have to trade Melo theory?"

colinskik
01-13-2016, 04:19 PM
To answer your question yes. KP has an NBA skillset right now not denying that. Do I think k he can be the second best player on a ECF contenders absolutely not. The Knicks aren't even in the playoffs as of now and they have Carmelo playing some of the best ball of his career.

KP is really good but there is no need to get ahead of yourselves thinking he is that type of impact player right now. If he was the Knicks would be a top 5 in conference at the very least.

They've only started to gel as a team in the past two weeks, which includes Melo's recent all-around type play. They started out with a tough schedule and have some very winnable games coming up. Let's see where they end up in the standings when the chips falls, because KP is and will be the number 2 guy on a team that will most likely make the playoffs. Give them a decent PG and there's no reason they couldn't make a bit of noise.

colinskik
01-13-2016, 04:23 PM
lol wow cant even have a normal discussion without Knicks fans taking offense when there was nothing to take offense to. But hey if you wanna bank on a 34 year old Melo in a few years im sure not gonna stop you. Have fun chasing that 8 seed yet again.

No, the reality is a Knicks fan can't inform the uninformed about their team w/o dolts throwing a hissy fit and hurling insults. You are the uninformed AND the dolt in this scenario.

2-ONE-5
01-13-2016, 05:01 PM
No one's offended, just your posts makes zero sense. Melo is 31 now and still a 22/8/4 guy. by the time Melo is 34 we won't be "banking" on him. KP will be 23 and should be the #1 guy by then with Melo being a supporting cast 16-18ppg type player.

PHI fans claiming the Knicks are STACKED and then naming Calderon as a key piece just sounds mad salty tho, and hilarious!... Dont think I've ever seen the words STACKED, KNICKS and Calderon all in the same sentence until PHI fans started saying it...lol.

lol thats bcuz you didnt see me post the words Calderon, Knicks, and stacked in the same sentence. maybe go back and re-read it and ill continue my response since you just read what you wanted.

2-ONE-5
01-13-2016, 05:04 PM
No, the reality is a Knicks fan can't inform the uninformed about their team w/o dolts throwing a hissy fit and hurling insults. You are the uninformed AND the dolt in this scenario.

lol what?

5ass
01-13-2016, 05:14 PM
As long as they have Phil Jackson, the Knicks are in a great position. The Lopez signing wasn't a smart move though. They should've just saved up that cap space. Should've just kept Jason Smith and added Zaza.

nycericanguy
01-13-2016, 05:20 PM
lol thats bcuz you didnt see me post the words Calderon, Knicks, and stacked in the same sentence. maybe go back and re-read it and ill continue my response since you just read what you wanted.

my bad it was the other PHI fan that said that.. WArfq? something like that.

but you naming Calderon as a reason the Knicks should have made the playoffs anyway is still a reach.

just about everyone had the KNicks at 29 wins, so being .500 halfway through the season is an over achievement.

ewing
01-13-2016, 05:30 PM
As long as they have Phil Jackson, the Knicks are in a great position. The Lopez signing wasn't a smart move though. They should've just saved up that cap space. Should've just kept Jason Smith and added Zaza.

i think they felt they needed a bruiser to make them somewhat respectable and to protect KP. The fact that KP is better then they thought coming in takes away from some of his value. He is a still a nice player though and i don't think its a terrible contract so i while i wasn't crazy about the deal and still aren't its not one that upsets me and still think it could work out

NYYCowboys
01-13-2016, 06:01 PM
As long as they have Phil Jackson, the Knicks are in a great position. The Lopez signing wasn't a smart move though. They should've just saved up that cap space. Should've just kept Jason Smith and added Zaza.

Once the cap rises, and players start to get even more ridiculous money Lopez's deal will actually look reasonable. I have no doubt they'd be able to move him if they wanted to.

GiantsSwaGG
01-13-2016, 06:11 PM
As long as they have Phil Jackson, the Knicks are in a great position. The Lopez signing wasn't a smart move though. They should've just saved up that cap space. Should've just kept Jason Smith and added Zaza.

Lopez has been balling lately

WaDe03
01-13-2016, 07:32 PM
To trade Melo to the Heat.

nycericanguy
01-13-2016, 07:39 PM
To trade Melo to the Heat.

a couple of weeks ago Dragic + Winslow for Melo would have intrigued me.

But Melo truly looks like a different player now, a TEAM player. No way do I trade him for that package now and MIA has nothing else they could offer. I think Melo stays in NY.

da ThRONe
01-13-2016, 07:39 PM
Is this an episode of steinfeld? Seriously i have no idea that that means. Anyway, KP will be 23 when Melo's deal expires. Melo is not a terrible contract, it is not hamstringing NY ability to sign people, and he make NY attractive to FA now b/c the team is not awful. Again, I don't understand this idea that you need to be awful until you have every piece you need under contract at one time. It doesn't make sense and we've only seen it work when superstars team up. Its OK be a middle of the road with youth and flexibility. They are trying to build something, the hardest piece to find is that franchise guy, hopefully we found him.

"Levels" meaning not all rebuilds require the same time frame and overall strategies. If Prozingers is that guy like so many believe then you want his core peaking when he peaks. The Knicks could get in line to max out somebody like Derozan, but really how much closer does that put the Knicks to the ECF? If KP is in line to being a superstar wait until he is considered one and the Knicks will be a lot more attactive to FA's. Sell Melo for the young talent that at the very least you expect to be key role players.

I think you are over stating Carmelo's appeal in this league. When he first signed with the Knicks in his prime what star player left their team to go a play with Anthony? This is a prime Melo not one that's likely to decline before his contracts expires. Yet he's suppose to have that kind of effect with the Knicks at 31 and the team is fighting tooth and nail just to make the playoffs?

There's nothing wrong with planning ahead. In fact I'm arguing in this current league if you want to be a title contender moving forward it will require a very solid plan that requires a few lumps. Players that will be FA's in 3-4 years won't care that the Knicks were a playoff team when they become available. They'll make their decision based on what the team will look like moving forward and that's what GM's of teams that aren't at least really good should be thinking about.

da ThRONe
01-13-2016, 07:42 PM
a couple of weeks ago Dragic + Winslow for Melo would have intrigued me.

But Melo truly looks like a different player now, a TEAM player. No way do I trade him for that package now and MIA has nothing else they could offer. I think Melo stays in NY.

My advice to that is get a 3rd team(maybe even 4th) involved to up the return on Melo.

nycericanguy
01-13-2016, 07:45 PM
My advice to that is get a 3rd team(maybe even 4th) involved to up the return on Melo.

nah, Melo has been really great on and off the court as of late. I havent been the biggest Melo fan but there's no way the Knicks should trade him now. He should be good the rest of his contract.

NYYCowboys
01-13-2016, 07:51 PM
a couple of weeks ago Dragic + Winslow for Melo would have intrigued me.

But Melo truly looks like a different player now, a TEAM player. No way do I trade him for that package now and MIA has nothing else they could offer. I think Melo stays in NY.

I would 100% still do this... As Knicks fans we've seen him play for 5 and a half seasons now, and you're now about to change your opinion of him because of a stretch of 2 weeks where he wasn't a complete black hole, and actually playing the way he was supposed to be.

Dragic, while not having a good year, is an ideal fit for this offense, and is two years younger than Melo, and would be a HUGE upgrade over Calderon. Winslow has the makings of a great defensive player, who is young and on a rookie scale contract, and could be a potential side kick for Porzingis for years to come. I doubt the Heat would even do this deal unless they got desperate.

Bottomline getting as much as possible for Melo while you still can is the best strategy. The fact that he's playing well now only helps us, but I highly doubt Phil Jackson has the balls to trade him anyway.

Bostonjorge
01-13-2016, 08:18 PM
Trade the euro guy

D-Leethal
01-13-2016, 08:25 PM
"Levels" meaning not all rebuilds require the same time frame and overall strategies. If Prozingers is that guy like so many believe then you want his core peaking when he peaks. The Knicks could get in line to max out somebody like Derozan, but really how much closer does that put the Knicks to the ECF? If KP is in line to being a superstar wait until he is considered one and the Knicks will be a lot more attactive to FA's. Sell Melo for the young talent that at the very least you expect to be key role players.

I think you are over stating Carmelo's appeal in this league. When he first signed with the Knicks in his prime what star player left their team to go a play with Anthony? This is a prime Melo not one that's likely to decline before his contracts expires. Yet he's suppose to have that kind of effect with the Knicks at 31 and the team is fighting tooth and nail just to make the playoffs?

There's nothing wrong with planning ahead. In fact I'm arguing in this current league if you want to be a title contender moving forward it will require a very solid plan that requires a few lumps. Players that will be FA's in 3-4 years won't care that the Knicks were a playoff team when they become available. They'll make their decision based on what the team will look like moving forward and that's what GM's of teams that aren't at least really good should be thinking about.

Why not win on the backend of Melo's prime and front end of KP's and adjust accordingly as they age? Melo gives us time to figure out how we will retool around KP, and they can swap roles as #1 guy when the time comes in a couple years to do that, Melo will still be a solid player for a long time. We are acting like he is going from playing some of the best ball of his life to a washed up trainwreck overnight. Guys that play the way Melo plays - utilizing slick shooting in the mid range / posts with fundamentals and footwork - age like fine wine.

KP is gonna be around for 15 years barring a freak injury. We can win in this window and than open another one. Trading Melo because in 5 years Melo isn't gonna be as good as he is now is stupid if we can make noise over the course of those 5 years.

D-Leethal
01-13-2016, 08:29 PM
When Kawhi started turning into an MVP type talent did the Spurs go trade all of the 30-35 year olds? They are gonna win now and retool around Kawhi, hopefully making it a seamless process, I think that is what Phil envisions when he sees the backend of Melo's prime coinciding with the start of Porzingis' in a couple years.

5ass
01-13-2016, 08:54 PM
Once the cap rises, and players start to get even more ridiculous money Lopez's deal will actually look reasonable. I have no doubt they'd be able to move him if they wanted to.
Oh I am taking into consideration that the cap will rise. Still, I don't think it was a smart move. Not a terrible signing, but with Melo making more than 25 mill/yr, you have to be smarter in FA especially if you're looking to target max FAs in the coming offseasons. Zaza is making much less and is the better player, and for 1/10th the price Smith isn't a bad option either.

5ass
01-13-2016, 08:57 PM
Then again maybe my expectations are too high.

da ThRONe
01-13-2016, 10:18 PM
Why not win on the backend of Melo's prime and front end of KP's and adjust accordingly as they age? Melo gives us time to figure out how we will retool around KP, and they can swap roles as #1 guy when the time comes in a couple years to do that, Melo will still be a solid player for a long time. We are acting like he is going from playing some of the best ball of his life to a washed up trainwreck overnight. Guys that play the way Melo plays - utilizing slick shooting in the mid range / posts with fundamentals and footwork - age like fine wine.

KP is gonna be around for 15 years barring a freak injury. We can win in this window and than open another one. Trading Melo because in 5 years Melo isn't gonna be as good as he is now is stupid if we can make noise over the course of those 5 years.

This IMO seems like a fine plan to be a quality team like the Hawks or Raptors for 4-8years. And if the fan base is cool with that no problem. My personal philosophy is to swing for the fense when you acquire that player you think could be one of the better players in the league.

If chasing a title is the goal I think it's illogical to have Melo exiting his prime as KP is entering his. Especially with the money Anthony is due.

ewing
01-13-2016, 11:14 PM
This IMO seems like a fine plan to be a quality team like the Hawks or Raptors for 4-8years. And if the fan base is cool with that no problem. My personal philosophy is to swing for the fense when you acquire that player you think could be one of the better players in the league.

If chasing a title is the goal I think it's illogical to have Melo exiting his prime as KP is entering his. Especially with the money Anthony is due.

we know, they should suck until they have 4 22 years olds on the verge of stardom.

Cal827
01-14-2016, 01:29 AM
It's all good for them this year, but I think they should trade away some of the role players who are getting them unnecessary wins. It would be in their best interest to have a higher draft pick this season..... :D

Cal827
01-14-2016, 01:31 AM
i wouldnt say the are greatly exceeding expectations. Calderon, AA, Melo, Lopez alone should have been good enough to fight for the 8 seed in the East just like they are doing. As for their future youre gonna have to wait til Melo is moved and see what its for along with if Porz can take the next step over the next 2 years.

I was in the Knick troll threads over the summer..... many people thought this team would be one of the two bottom feeders in the East :laugh2:

Now that I think about it and look at the standings.... WHY IS WASHINGTON STILL THERE :laugh2:

ewing
01-14-2016, 09:30 AM
When Kawhi started turning into an MVP type talent did the Spurs go trade all of the 30-35 year olds? They are gonna win now and retool around Kawhi, hopefully making it a seamless process, I think that is what Phil envisions when he sees the backend of Melo's prime coinciding with the start of Porzingis' in a couple years.


The millennials they don't believe in building anything. Give it all to me now

2-ONE-5
01-14-2016, 11:00 AM
my bad it was the other PHI fan that said that.. WArfq? something like that.

but you naming Calderon as a reason the Knicks should have made the playoffs anyway is still a reach.

just about everyone had the KNicks at 29 wins, so being .500 halfway through the season is an over achievement.

i named him as 1 of 4 players who combined with the rest of the team should be able to fight for a 500 record and 8 seed not exactly all that bold. Calderon has pretty solid numbers on the offensive end for his role.

2-ONE-5
01-14-2016, 11:04 AM
Why not win on the backend of Melo's prime and front end of KP's and adjust accordingly as they age? Melo gives us time to figure out how we will retool around KP, and they can swap roles as #1 guy when the time comes in a couple years to do that, Melo will still be a solid player for a long time. We are acting like he is going from playing some of the best ball of his life to a washed up trainwreck overnight. Guys that play the way Melo plays - utilizing slick shooting in the mid range / posts with fundamentals and footwork - age like fine wine.

KP is gonna be around for 15 years barring a freak injury. We can win in this window and than open another one. Trading Melo because in 5 years Melo isn't gonna be as good as he is now is stupid if we can make noise over the course of those 5 years.

serious question, how is Melo having one of the best years of his career? The numbers seem to say otherwise, looks like just another year except his fG% is dipping

ewing
01-14-2016, 11:14 AM
serious question, how is Melo having one of the best years of his career? The numbers seem to say otherwise, looks like just another year except his fG% is dipping


I think Knick fan are so excited to see a healthy and invested Melo that they forget how good he has been in past years. I will say that Melo has been very adaptable this year, as a knick fan one of the frustrating things about Melo was his instance on playing "bully ball" and not wanting certain roles. This year he has been very open to adapting his game plus he has been invested on D. I also think his shooting % could go up some. He shot very poorly to start the season while he was finding his role and coming back from a long lay off. He also has been more selective in recent games.

IDunknown
01-14-2016, 05:05 PM
I was in the Knick troll threads over the summer..... many people thought this team would be one of the two bottom feeders in the East :laugh2:

Now that I think about it and look at the standings.... WHY IS WASHINGTON STILL THERE :laugh2:

It's because Beal was injured for 16 games. He just came back.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-15-2016, 12:51 PM
When Kawhi started turning into an MVP type talent did the Spurs go trade all of the 30-35 year olds? They are gonna win now and retool around Kawhi, hopefully making it a seamless process, I think that is what Phil envisions when he sees the backend of Melo's prime coinciding with the start of Porzingis' in a couple years.

Them 30-35 year olds have a few rings to flash. Melo has nothing to show for. Yeah Phil can flash his rings but he had Jordan/Pippen and Kobe/Shaq so pretty easy. Heck a chimp could of coach and got easy rings as well being in Phil's shoes.

nycericanguy
01-15-2016, 01:09 PM
I was in the Knick troll threads over the summer..... many people thought this team would be one of the two bottom feeders in the East :laugh2:

Now that I think about it and look at the standings.... WHY IS WASHINGTON STILL THERE :laugh2:

funny how that works... trash the Knicks all summer... if they suck you can say "i told u so"...if they do well then they say " well they should have done well anyway."...lol

just about every preseason prediction had them at 29-31 wins. Heck TOR had a predictions thread and many said TOR would get a top 3-5 pick from NY.

now some people want to go back and act like Calderon is supposed to be a key piece to a playoff team..haha

TheIlladelph16
01-15-2016, 01:59 PM
Have you watched any Knicks games at all this season? KP is already a core piece. He's the second option behind Melo and the defensive anchor of the team.

He's a core piece of a mediocre Knicks team that's not even in the playoff picture in the East. He wouldn't be a core piece on plenty of teams in the East and even more in the West.

nycericanguy
01-15-2016, 02:05 PM
He's a core piece of a mediocre Knicks team that's not even in the playoff picture in the East. He wouldn't be a core piece on plenty of teams in the East and even more in the West.

nonsense, a stretch 4/5 that can defend, shoot, block shots, run the floor and rebound would be a core piece on just about ANY team.

bucketss
01-15-2016, 02:10 PM
lets not act like knicks are a good team all of a sudden .... i still heavily doubt they make the playoffs

TheIlladelph16
01-15-2016, 02:17 PM
nonsense, a stretch 4/5 that can defend, shoot, block shots, run the floor and rebound would be a core piece on just about ANY team.

Strongly disagree. He's been good, particularly considering how raw he was seen. He has a lot of potential as well, but as per usual, some Knicks fans are severely overestimating how good he currently is.


lets not act like knicks are a good team all of a sudden .... i still heavily doubt they make the playoffs

That's what I don't understand about the tone in this thread. You have a bunch of people patting themselves on the backs seemingly because the Knicks have defied some expectation of their season. The end result of that is 10th place in the East and a middling roster. What exactly are people celebrating here?

Beltrans Mole
01-15-2016, 02:46 PM
Strongly disagree. He's been good, particularly considering how raw he was seen. He has a lot of potential as well, but as per usual, some Knicks fans are severely overestimating how good he currently is.



That's what I don't understand about the tone in this thread. You have a bunch of people patting themselves on the backs seemingly because the Knicks have defied some expectation of their season. The end result of that is 10th place in the East and a middling roster. What exactly are people celebrating here?

No one is celebrating anything. Knicks fans have every right to be excited considering they won 17 games last year and the Knicks have 20 wins at the halfway point this year. And, like others have stated, most "experts" projected to Knicks to be lucky to win 30 games this season. It's silly to say "10th place in the East" when the Knicks would actually be in the playoffs right now in the West. There's a lot of competitive teams this year in the East and the Knicks are one of those teams...is that so hard to understand?

ewing
01-15-2016, 02:50 PM
Strongly disagree. He's been good, particularly considering how raw he was seen. He has a lot of potential as well, but as per usual, some Knicks fans are severely overestimating how good he currently is.



That's what I don't understand about the tone in this thread. You have a bunch of people patting themselves on the backs seemingly because the Knicks have defied some expectation of their season. The end result of that is 10th place in the East and a middling roster. What exactly are people celebrating here?


the Knicks have a 7'3 guy that looks like he very well could be a foundation player for the franchise, they no longer are a total laughing stock, there games are watchable, they have money to spend, just about all the players on the team are movable. Life is good :nod:

FOXHOUND
01-15-2016, 03:23 PM
I would really love for Phil to get Batum. Love his versatility and his all around game is not only perfect for the triangle, but to be a 3rd piece next to Melo and Porzingis. He's a great modern NBA player, highly skilled, long, athletic and can defend and play multiple positions.

He's been playing in a 3rd best player type role for a while now, so he won't have any major adjustments. He's got playoff experience from Portland and teammate experience with Lopez and Afflalo, if he's still here.

Speaking of Afflalo, I would love for him to pick up that option and be the 6th man but I doubt he doesn't opt out to secure one last contract.

The Knicks are still running plenty of triangle type ball, so while PG play needs to greatly improve it's not like a top PG will ever be a requirement. Melo is going to continue to have the ball plenty and as Porzingis grows he will only get it more. Really just need PG to be strong defensively, hit their open shots and be respectable from a scoring and passing stand point. I still believe Galloway and Grant can develop into those roles, although Grant's shooting definitely needs a big uptick.

A player like Batum is nice because he's a good enough passer to average 5 assists per game, but doesn't need to dominate the ball at all to do it. Also is well experienced off the ball to play off them. I can see him being a highly efficient 18-8-6 type player here with strong D.

Lineup wise, love the idea of the big lineup featuring
Batum-Melo-Porzingis-Lopez. Also love that they slide them all up when Porizngis is at center for a deadly small ball attack. That kind of versatility would give them good matchups vs any team.

But yeah, I think Batum would be my top FA target for those reasons.

mudvayne387
01-15-2016, 03:28 PM
the Knicks have a 7'3 guy that looks like he very well could be a foundation player for the franchise, they no longer are a total laughing stock, there games are watchable, they have money to spend, just about all the players on the team are movable. Life is good :nod:

It's absolutely amazing how short people's memories are on PSD. Two years ago you could argue that the Knicks were in as bad or worse shape than the current Nets. A selfish "star", a roster filled with D-League talent, little cap space, and certainly no hope for the future.

Then Phil Jackson comes along and immediately people are screaming "money grab" or he's too old. A very disappointing season later and the Knicks don't even manage to get a top three pick in the draft. So what does Jackson do ? He does what in hind sight looks like the only logical decision. He takes the player remaining with the highest upside in maybe the entire draft. Once again people are making the Knicks out to be the laughing stock of the league. Darko 2.0 and certainly a project player. We've already seen glimpses of greatness from Porzingis both on offense and defense. Five games into season and he is the 2nd option behind Carmelo. And how about his free agent signings ? B level talent and that I will not argue with. Mid way through the year and Affalo and Lopez both look like solid additions. Both signed to reasonable deals with the cap rising and both certainly tradeable if the Knicks wish to do so.

So while 20-21 may not seem like much to most other teams, for the Knicks it is a solid foundation for which to build on. They will have their picks to themselves after this years draft. They have two rookies who are already contributing on a nightly basis. They have a super star player who for the first time in his career is playing team basketball and making his teammates better. Best of all ? They finally seem to have a plan and system in place to build for the future.

This thread wasn't to brag about the Knicks average season, it was to hear others opinions on how the Knicks can go from middle of the pack to contender. And one things for sure, they seem to be on the right track.

mrblisterdundee
01-15-2016, 04:43 PM
The Knicks are playing a lot better, but they're still trying to sniff the mediocrity of an eighth seed. But at the same time, there's some strong logic toward trading Carmelo Anthony to an actual contendor while his stock is still high. Chicago and Miami would seem like natural suitors, with some more expensive, expiring veteran contracts and young talent to send New York's way.
If the Knicks think they can compete in the next several years, then Keep Carmelo and try to upgrade the back court. Inquire about Rajon Rondo or Darren Collison from Sacramento, but be prepared to give up Jerian Grant and Langston Galloway.
I think Chicago is the single-most appealing trade destination for Anthony. How about Bobby Portis, Doug McDermott, Joakim Noah and Taj Gibson for Anthony and Derrick Williams? If Chicago wants an offensive boost to help Jimmy Butler, Anthony's their best bet. New York gets some intriguing pieces, including a potential starting center in Portis and a good shooter in McDermott.

Pierzynski4Prez
01-15-2016, 05:01 PM
Who is Craig McDermott?

MILLERHIGHLIFE
01-15-2016, 05:15 PM
funny how that works... trash the Knicks all summer... if they suck you can say "i told u so"...if they do well then they say " well they should have done well anyway."...lol

just about every preseason prediction had them at 29-31 wins. Heck TOR had a predictions thread and many said TOR would get a top 3-5 pick from NY.

now some people want to go back and act like Calderon is supposed to be a key piece to a playoff team..haha
Calderon should of been out of the league years ago. Not sure how he got that contract.

nycericanguy
01-15-2016, 05:30 PM
Calderon should of been out of the league years ago. Not sure how he got that contract.

man you really have something against anything knick related...lol.

JC's contract is just over MLE...DAL gave it to him 2 years ago and he helped them win 50 games his 1st year there starting 81 games for them.

at this point though he's a backup being asked to start in NY. at least until/if Grant is ready.

but Saying he should have been out of the league years ago is just ridiculous. he was great for DAL two years ago, hurt last year, and he's been decent this year but isn't really starting material. Alot of teams could use his shooting though, heck the Bucks are a prime example!...

Gander13SM
01-15-2016, 05:40 PM
I remember that stretch of about 3 years where Calderon lead the league in AST:TO

Underrated a few years back. Shame he's in a city like New York at this stage of his career.

mrblisterdundee
01-15-2016, 07:01 PM
Who is Craig McDermott?

Sorry; I meant Doug and updated my post.

ShadyOne
01-16-2016, 11:06 AM
Everyone needs to stop with the trading Melo stuff..

Why would the Knicks trade him? No matter what your opinion of him, the only way it would make sense is if the return was a younger star-level player. No team is trading that for a more expensive, aging version of the guy they are giving up. No way a deal is making the Knicks better. Especially with the way he has been playing. Guy is still a top-level player in the league. And his game was never dependent on athleticism, he will age fine, even more so if he continues to adapt into the all-around player we are starting to see.