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JasonJohnHorn
01-09-2016, 03:13 PM
Came across this on Reddit:
http://i.imgur.com/FgqGV7U.png

I realize we all know how great Duncan is, but at 39, to still be averaging double-digit rebounds per36 (neither Malone or Kareem managed that, and there were more possessions in their respective eras), AND to be shooting at above his career average at that age (which I can't think of any player who has managed that) just seems mind boggling to me. I realize he has a decreased role, but so too did Malone and Kareem in their final season.

Looking at where he is leading the way: career playoff minutes? That is insane. People make note that Pop has saved Duncan from wear and tear by managing his minutes, but he is FIRST ALL TIME in playoff minutes, AND is currently 13th all-time for regular season minutes (not to mention his 4 years in college (three of the guys ahead of him on minutes didn't even play college, so when you factor that in, he's got even more milage). If you include Duncan's nearly 4500 minutes in college, he's well ahead of the players who didn't go to college in terms of total career minutes (though applying the same addition to Kareem would put him at over 60 000 career minutes, which would likely be untouchable).

What makes this even more impressive to me is that he's doing it on a team that is not only a contender, but that he is an anchor on a team that is on pace to win nearly 70 games.

He's also first in career playoff blocks (over Hakeem) and is behind only Wilt and Russell in career playoff rebounds.

I jut get more and more dumbfounded by the accomplishments of this player every season.

What elements of Duncan's career accomplishments are you most impressed by?

Chronz
01-09-2016, 04:27 PM
Absurd longevity. Hes entering KAJ level of respect.

Kush McDaniels
01-09-2016, 04:35 PM
I feel like he could play another 5 years in some capacity if he truly wanted to, and still be effective/efficient in those minutes.

Redrum187
01-09-2016, 04:41 PM
Duncan's defense was close to Olajuwon's. His longevity is close to KAJ. His impact felt. His IQ off the charts. His demeanor humble yet confident. Pop couldn't ask for a better player to coach.

I say fug Tyson Chandler for stealing Duncan's DPOY award. He's never won one but is my generation's greatest defensive bigman since Olajuwon.

slashsnake
01-09-2016, 04:52 PM
A great player who found the perfect situation where he could extend his career as a great role player. Always had "old man" game, where it wasn't built on speed, quickness, athleticism. Nice to see him in that situation rather than a lot of the older vets where they are forced to be carrying teams on their own far too long.

flea
01-09-2016, 05:11 PM
A great player who found the perfect situation where he could extend his career as a great role player. Always had "old man" game, where it wasn't built on speed, quickness, athleticism. Nice to see him in that situation rather than a lot of the older vets where they are forced to be carrying teams on their own far too long.

He had a very movement-oriented offensive post game when he was young, and was a better athlete than people give him credit for. Everyone knows he's one of the 3 or so best defenders ever, but sometimes his offensive abilities are forgotten. For half his prime he was the only serious offensive threat in the halfcourt on his team and consistently kept his team's offense among the best.

That Pop "saved his legs" is also kind of a fiction. Yes he played less after 30, and maybe some other coach would have run him into the ground but I doubt it - old guys just can't go that hard. KG played the exact same MPG from age 31-35 as did Duncan (31.2). Duncan played more MPG than both Ewing and Olajuwon from 23-30 and 22-30 respectively (when each of them entered the league).

This doesn't even count expanded playoffs. His MPG speak for themselves, it had nothing to do with Pop and everything to do with his conditioning and dedication to the game (like KAJ).

Hawkeye15
01-09-2016, 06:40 PM
What I remember most, is like 6-7 years ago, he looked like the decline had set in. And then all of a sudden, he was back as an all NBA player. His longevity of production is unreal. At top 7 player ever, and just a constant example of how an athlete should treat his profession and act.

FlashBolt
01-09-2016, 08:55 PM
He's top five ever. What doesn't this man have?

Rings
MVP's
Final MVP's
All-NBA everything
All-NBA defense
Longevity
Stats
Coach-able

Only knock on him is? Idk. He missed a putback over Shane Battier? Haha.

Redrum187
01-09-2016, 09:32 PM
He's top five ever. What doesn't this man have?

Rings
MVP's
Final MVP's
All-NBA everything
All-NBA defense
Longevity
Stats
Coach-able

Only knock on him is? Idk. He missed a putback over Shane Battier? Haha.

His only knock is his marketability (which isn't really one in my book). It affects his popularity which is what many people use to justify (consciously or subconsciously) a top 5 selection.

mngopher35
01-09-2016, 09:33 PM
I gotta agree Flash, I have him in my top 5 as well. One of the best defenders ever, reaching top all time longevity levels, near the top in accolades (plus should for sure have DPOY by now), statistically is way up there too, great all around offensive game.

LOb0
01-09-2016, 10:00 PM
The only thing that sucks is that single finals loss. He would have been a perfect 6-0. But he did get revenge which is the best closure. Losing that finals and then coming back and destroying Miami had to feel so great for him.

JasonJohnHorn
01-09-2016, 10:43 PM
His only knock is his marketability (which isn't really one in my book). It affects his popularity which is what many people use to justify (consciously or subconsciously) a top 5 selection.

I think it's that, and he wasn't the kind of guy that felt compelled to be the center of the offense. We see guys like K Malone and Jordan, and Kobe have careers where they score 25+ points for most of their careers. Duncan, like Garnett, didn't need to do that. He let his presence be felt on offence so defences would play him honest and things would open up for teammates. That made the team better. This is forgiven in point guards like Magic, because it is expected that they pass, but for front court and wing players, people like to see scoring. That is why Wilt and Kareem get so much more love than Russell (or at least one of the reasons).

Duncan could have been dropping 25-30 a game from his rookie year, right up to 32 years of age at least, but never felt like he had to force it. For that reason, people see 18 a game and drop him from the conversation.

The marketability is part of it, for sure, but I think his unselfishness on offense causes people to shy away.

JasonJohnHorn
01-09-2016, 10:45 PM
The only thing that sucks is that single finals loss. He would have been a perfect 6-0. But he did get revenge which is the best closure. Losing that finals and then coming back and destroying Miami had to feel so great for him.

That game six was Pop's fault. He took Duncan out of the game at a time when they needed a defensive rebound. Game six would have been in the bag had Duncan been in the court. Love Pop, but he pulled a boner on that one.

kdspurman
01-09-2016, 11:43 PM
That game six was Pop's fault. He took Duncan out of the game at a time when they needed a defensive rebound. Game six would have been in the bag had Duncan been in the court. Love Pop, but he pulled a boner on that one.

I disagree with this.. I've said why many of times on here, but there were many more reasons they lost that game. Tim in the game at that time, he just didn't have the mobility for switching the p&r.
Pop was not the reason they lost..

I will say, had they won that game/series, I don't think they have the run they did in 2014. So either way, TD ends up with 5

valade16
01-10-2016, 12:55 AM
Are we talking career or simply how good they were? He falls differently on my lists.

JasonJohnHorn
01-10-2016, 12:02 PM
I disagree with this.. I've said why many of times on here, but there were many more reasons they lost that game. Tim in the game at that time, he just didn't have the mobility for switching the p&r.
Pop was not the reason they lost..

I will say, had they won that game/series, I don't think they have the run they did in 2014. So either way, TD ends up with 5

First off... great GIF. LOVE IT.

Secondly, I don't think it was the P&R they needed to worry about: it was the 3. The important thing was defending the perimeter, and rebounding. They were up by 3 and could afford a 2pt FG. Duncan wouldn't have let Andersen (or was it Bosh) get that offensive rebound, who then kicked it out to Allen for the 3 to force the OT. That is why they lost the series.

Vogel did the same thing in the Indy series, pulling Hibbert off on the final play and letting Miami get the ball.

Frankly, had Vogel not done that, it would have been the Spurs/Pacers in the finals.

As for taking Duncan off. That would have been the series had they won, and a championship. Just in principle, Duncan deserved to be on the floor. But for sound basketball... when you are up by three, you need to guard the three point line and make sure you don't give up a offensive rebound. It's hard to defend off an offensive rebound, because everybody is crashing the boards and suddenly has to turn around and defend. They needed their best perimeter defender and rebounders on the floor. I love Pop, but even my high school coach pounded that home to us in close games.


I think you are right, though; they came back the next year with something to prove. I'm not sure they would have had that motivation had they won. In fact, I think it likely that TD and Manu would have retired after that. Still... they never seem like a team that needed the motivation, and I think winning back-to-back for the first time would have meant something to TD and Pop. But I thought his exact same thing.

kdspurman
01-10-2016, 01:04 PM
First off... great GIF. LOVE IT.

Secondly, I don't think it was the P&R they needed to worry about: it was the 3. The important thing was defending the perimeter, and rebounding. They were up by 3 and could afford a 2pt FG. Duncan wouldn't have let Andersen (or was it Bosh) get that offensive rebound, who then kicked it out to Allen for the 3 to force the OT. That is why they lost the series.

Vogel did the same thing in the Indy series, pulling Hibbert off on the final play and letting Miami get the ball.

Frankly, had Vogel not done that, it would have been the Spurs/Pacers in the finals.

As for taking Duncan off. That would have been the series had they won, and a championship. Just in principle, Duncan deserved to be on the floor. But for sound basketball... when you are up by three, you need to guard the three point line and make sure you don't give up a offensive rebound. It's hard to defend off an offensive rebound, because everybody is crashing the boards and suddenly has to turn around and defend. They needed their best perimeter defender and rebounders on the floor. I love Pop, but even my high school coach pounded that home to us in close games.


I think you are right, though; they came back the next year with something to prove. I'm not sure they would have had that motivation had they won. In fact, I think it likely that TD and Manu would have retired after that. Still... they never seem like a team that needed the motivation, and I think winning back-to-back for the first time would have meant something to TD and Pop. But I thought his exact same thing.

Thanks :)

And yea they were worried about the 3, but TD just didnt have the mobility to switch out to the perimeter when the inevitable P&R came. So if he's in, and guarding Lebron at the point line, he's not in the paint to get the rebound anyway.

Pops quote sums it up in this link.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/tim-duncan-not-surprised-gregg-popovich-sat-him-202739972.html

Don't want to derail your thread too much with this discussion lol.. but I'm glad it happened, it allowed me to witness the best ball I've ever seen from the 2014 Spurs.

DboneG
01-10-2016, 01:35 PM
Absurd longevity. Hes entering KAJ level of respect.



Kareem Abdul-Jabbar never played soft like Timmie. Maybe in the latter part of his career, Kareem knew it was time to hang it up. Timmie plays soft almost every third game. (maybe he's injured...I don't know). Timmie is on the soft side, he has had a stellar career. He should thank David Robinson every day.



Timmie never had a Go-To shot like Kareem. The guy had to wear goggles! Because, guys kept poking in the eye to try and stop him. Timmie?! Let him shoot.
Timmie never battled as many great players like Kareem. Maybe, because, he's soft.
Timmie never had that many game winning shots like Kareem. Why is that?
Kareem was a 6-time MVP, you can make a very good debate, by saying Kareem was the greatest player of all-time. You can't do that with Timmie.

kdspurman
01-10-2016, 01:47 PM
^ you really need to educate yourself on Tim Duncan. That's 1 of the most absurd things I've seen on here. And I've seen some stuff

Gander13SM
01-10-2016, 01:49 PM
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar never played soft like Timmie. Maybe in the latter part of his career, Kareem knew it was time to hang it up. Timmie plays soft almost every third game. (maybe he's injured...I don't know). Timmie is on the soft side, he has had a stellar career. He should thank David Robinson every day.



Timmie never had a Go-To shoot like Kareem. The guy had to wear goggles! Because, guys kept poking in the eye to try and stop him. Timmie?! Let him shoot.
Timmie never battled as many great players like Kareem. Maybe, because, he's soft.
Timmie never had that many game winning shots like Kareem. Why is that?
Kareem was a 6-time MVP, you can make a very good debate, by saying Kareem was the greatest player of all-time. You can't do that with Timmie.

Lmao. Disproved your "soft" comments in the other thread. You ran away and never returned. Don't make me embarrass you again.

DboneG
01-10-2016, 02:36 PM
Maybe it was his "soft" touch around the basket...

Gander13SM
01-10-2016, 02:44 PM
Maybe it was his "soft" touch around the basket...

I think your head is soft.

JasonJohnHorn
01-10-2016, 02:54 PM
Thanks :)

And yea they were worried about the 3, but TD just didnt have the mobility to switch out to the perimeter when the inevitable P&R came. So if he's in, and guarding Lebron at the point line, he's not in the paint to get the rebound anyway.

Pops quote sums it up in this link.
http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/tim-duncan-not-surprised-gregg-popovich-sat-him-202739972.html

Don't want to derail your thread too much with this discussion lol.. but I'm glad it happened, it allowed me to witness the best ball I've ever seen from the 2014 Spurs.

Fair point. I forget who Miami had on the court at the time. If I remember right, it was Allen, Wade, LBJ, Bosh and Andersen. In that case, leaving Duncan on, and I think Splitter was there too.... I'd likely have one of them on Bosh and one on Andersen (though Bosh had hit a couple three's that year).

The trick there is to GIVE the other team an fairly open two, but to make sure they eat the clock up to get it. Making the stop isn't important: eating the clock is. You can eat a two and still win. You can allow a potential three. Allen is the real threat: your best defender, or a very good defender needs to go on him. Wade needs a tall long body cause he's only 6'3, and LBJ needs Leonard to push him to a spot where he isn't comfortable shooting three (LBJ has a three on the right side of the elbow I think that he hits a high percentage from, but most everywhere else he's below average).

I've run that over in my head so many times because the Spurs should have sealed up the win there. It was so frustrating. It was all wrapped up and I was ready to start celebrating. Man that was a heart breaker.

JasonJohnHorn
01-10-2016, 03:07 PM
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar never played soft like Timmie. Maybe in the latter part of his career, Kareem knew it was time to hang it up. Timmie plays soft almost every third game. (maybe he's injured...I don't know). Timmie is on the soft side, he has had a stellar career. He should thank David Robinson every day.



Timmie never had a Go-To shot like Kareem. The guy had to wear goggles! Because, guys kept poking in the eye to try and stop him. Timmie?! Let him shoot.
Timmie never battled as many great players like Kareem. Maybe, because, he's soft.
Timmie never had that many game winning shots like Kareem. Why is that?
Kareem was a 6-time MVP, you can make a very good debate, by saying Kareem was the greatest player of all-time. You can't do that with Timmie.

Kareem was notorious for coasting in the regular season, even during his prime. They even made a joke about it in the movie Airplane ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2A194yTWoQ ). Don't bring that 'soft' BS in here with Kareem as you template. Kareem was tough, yes, (he broke his fore arm one season smashing it on another player), but when you are talking about a guy who never averaged double-digit rebounds per36 past the age of 34 when Duncan's managed to do it until 39, you obviously don't know how 'hard' somebody has to be to get double-digit rebounds in the NBA. Name a 'soft' player that ever averaged 12+ boards for 5 straight seasons. Or a 'soft' player that average 11 boards or more for 20 seasons. Or one who averaged double-digit boards per game for 13 straight years. Or 10+ boards per36 for two decades? Can't do that, can you.

Never had a 'got to' shot? You've never seen that 15-footer bank shot, have you? Do you watch any Spurs games. TD has several moves that jumpstart the offence and get them must-have buckets.

Never battled great players? You mean, like Hakeem? And Shaq? And Zo? And Garnett? Right.

Game winning hots? you don't need them when you are up by 10 at the end of the game.

MVP? It's an individual award. Kareem won MVP one year when he didn't even make the playoffs. That would never happen to day.

And when Duncan won all of his titles, the league had no less than 29 teams. Kareem won his first title when there were only 17 teams. There were only 22 for his second title.

Kareem is amazing A basketball legend, and one of the very best to ever play the game.

But your comparison.... totally off base. I'm not saying that Duncan is better than Kareem, but I am certainly saying that he has managed to play at a level for a long period that easily puts him at the same level as Kareem. To deny that is to say the sun goes around the earth despite the evidence to the contrary.

kdspurman
01-10-2016, 04:00 PM
Fair point. I forget who Miami had on the court at the time. If I remember right, it was Allen, Wade, LBJ, Bosh and Andersen. In that case, leaving Duncan on, and I think Splitter was there too.... I'd likely have one of them on Bosh and one on Andersen (though Bosh had hit a couple three's that year).

The trick there is to GIVE the other team an fairly open two, but to make sure they eat the clock up to get it. Making the stop isn't important: eating the clock is. You can eat a two and still win. You can allow a potential three. Allen is the real threat: your best defender, or a very good defender needs to go on him. Wade needs a tall long body cause he's only 6'3, and LBJ needs Leonard to push him to a spot where he isn't comfortable shooting three (LBJ has a three on the right side of the elbow I think that he hits a high percentage from, but most everywhere else he's below average).

I've run that over in my head so many times because the Spurs should have sealed up the win there. It was so frustrating. It was all wrapped up and I was ready to start celebrating. Man that was a heart breaker.

Nah Anderson was out, otherwise Timmy would've been in for sure. It was Bosh,Lebron,Wade,Allen,Chalmers.. and they had been running that p&r with Lebron and Bosh to get the Spurs bigs to defend Lebron on the perimeter. It would have created a mismatch and possibly an even easier 3 than they got.. I mean who really knows at this point.

It was the toughest loss as a fan I've ever experienced. It made .4 seem comical to me. I was ready to celebrate too haha. But like I said, it made 2014 that much sweeter. Especially cause it came against Miami.

DboneG
01-10-2016, 04:16 PM
Timmie is just a Pick-and-Roll player. He will do that garbage Lil' soft spot up. He's not a sound ball handler, he's not the quickest player, he's not flashy passer, Timmie never been that good moving without the ball. YOU CAN HAVE HIM! He's a soft batch.

He should thank David Robinson all the time. It was David battling Hakeem!!

PurpleLynch
01-10-2016, 04:49 PM
Kareem Abdul-Jabbar never played soft like Timmie. Maybe in the latter part of his career, Kareem knew it was time to hang it up. Timmie plays soft almost every third game. (maybe he's injured...I don't know). Timmie is on the soft side, he has had a stellar career. He should thank David Robinson every day.



Timmie never had a Go-To shot like Kareem. The guy had to wear goggles! Because, guys kept poking in the eye to try and stop him. Timmie?! Let him shoot.
Timmie never battled as many great players like Kareem. Maybe, because, he's soft.
Timmie never had that many game winning shots like Kareem. Why is that?
Kareem was a 6-time MVP, you can make a very good debate, by saying Kareem was the greatest player of all-time. You can't do that with Timmie.

Educate yourself in all things Nba's related. You started early as one of the most ignorant poster on Psd in few days.

SPURSFAN1
01-10-2016, 04:52 PM
This dude is a moron. :clap:

Gander13SM
01-10-2016, 05:07 PM
The same guy that grabbed 20 boards over Shaq & the Lakers while dropping 30 points on them? The same guy that averaged 25-16-5-3 on his way to a chip? The same guy that posterized Ben Wallace and made him his bi*** ?

That guy is soft?

Can't argue with that... clearly he's marshmallow soft.

ewing
01-10-2016, 05:33 PM
I think your head is soft.

:laugh: thats the best post i've seen in a while

DboneG
01-10-2016, 06:07 PM
I guess there's a bunch of soft guys here. Because it takes a soft individual to like another soft individual.

Timmie could grab 50 rebounds in a game! He would still be soft.


"Can't argue with that... clearly he's marshmallow soft." No Timmie is Keeblers cookies soft-batch "soft". He'll crumble on you.



You can have him. But, him on your team...

JAZZNC
01-10-2016, 06:29 PM
I guess there's a bunch of soft guys here. Because it takes a soft individual to like another soft individual.

Timmie could grab 50 rebounds in a game! He would still be soft.


"Can't argue with that... clearly he's marshmallow soft." No Timmie is Keeblers cookies soft-batch "soft". He'll crumble on you.



You can have him. But, him on your team...

Seriously have you ever watched the guy play ever in your life? TDwas so far from soft. You aren't the defender and rebounder Duncan is by being soft. And yes I will gladly take his two decades of elite play on my team any day of the week. And you keep talking about Robinson like he was a tougher guy than Duncan, you realize all of Robinson's teams **** their pants come playoff time before Duncan showed up and took Robinson to two titles....and I guess you have forgotten about the 3 rings Duncan got without Robinson....but yeah Duncan owes his career to Robinson. Whatever helps you sleep at night.

JasonJohnHorn
01-10-2016, 06:35 PM
Nah Anderson was out, otherwise Timmy would've been in for sure. It was Bosh,Lebron,Wade,Allen,Chalmers.. and they had been running that p&r with Lebron and Bosh to get the Spurs bigs to defend Lebron on the perimeter. It would have created a mismatch and possibly an even easier 3 than they got.. I mean who really knows at this point.

It was the toughest loss as a fan I've ever experienced. It made .4 seem comical to me. I was ready to celebrate too haha. But like I said, it made 2014 that much sweeter. Especially cause it came against Miami.

Yeah... I just went back to the play. Good argument. Everybody on the floor was hitting 3's that post season. TD would have had to step and out get back quick.

JasonJohnHorn
01-10-2016, 06:39 PM
Timmie is just a Pick-and-Roll player. He will do that garbage Lil' soft spot up. He's not a sound ball handler, he's not the quickest player, he's not flashy passer, Timmie never been that good moving without the ball. YOU CAN HAVE HIM! He's a soft batch.

He should thank David Robinson all the time. It was David battling Hakeem!!

Should he thank DRob for the other 3 rings he won without him?

I think your answer to that is: "Yes. Obviously. I'm a troll."

DboneG
01-10-2016, 06:54 PM
Whenever you are 7'0"-7'1" like this guy...and always want to play power forward. You are soft.

This guy Timmie is only playing the center position now because he's slow, he lost a step. Otherwise, he prefer to battle and shoot over shorter guys. That's soft.

JasonJohnHorn
01-10-2016, 07:15 PM
Whenever you are 7'0"-7'1" like this guy...and always want to play power forward. You are soft.

This guy Timmie is only playing the center position now because he's slow, he lost a step. Otherwise, he prefer to battle and shoot over shorter guys. That's soft.

One of the toughest defenders to ever play the game, and best rebounders, and 5X champion is 'soft' because when he started, he played power forward because his team already had David Robinson?

And he's usually listed as 6'10 or 6'11. NOT 7'1.

His coach puts him at PF on offence because he has range and can spread the floor. On defence, he plays C and anchor one of the best defences in the history of the game.

But at the end of the day, I guess if playing what you call 'soft' gets you 5 rings and two decades worth of 50+ win teams, then that is obviously the way to go.