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GiantsSwaGG
01-06-2016, 10:29 PM
Signed to a Max contract and has been garbage, what happen? Are the Heat regretting signing him?

Redrum187
01-06-2016, 10:34 PM
I think they are. His efficiency has dropped drastically while scoring significantly less. He still doesn't play defense either.

The bright spot Heat fans will be spamming in a few minutes is "He is coming around. Look at his stats since Jan. 1st!"

I'm curious if Heat fans would be willing to trade Dragic for an expiring PG so they could have more money to offer Whiteside instead of letting him walk away next offseason.

HandsOnTheWheel
01-06-2016, 10:47 PM
Easy to make this thread after a game like tonight, huh?

This is nothing new, it's been the same issues facing the Heat all year. With the exception of Chris Bosh, there is not a single player who is a 3 point threat. Team's just way too inconsistent.

Doesn't mean they regret signing Dragic, just means it's taking much longer than it should getting the team to consistently mesh.

bucketss
01-07-2016, 01:55 AM
he needs a more uptempo team.

QueensG718
01-07-2016, 07:01 AM
He's Def lost a step. He's not threat out there

MonroeFAN
01-07-2016, 07:08 AM
Easy to make this thread after a game like tonight, huh?

This is nothing new, it's been the same issues facing the Heat all year. With the exception of Chris Bosh, there is not a single player who is a 3 point threat. Team's just way too inconsistent.

Doesn't mean they regret signing Dragic, just means it's taking much longer than it should getting the team to consistently mesh.

Jesus this app sucks.

MonroeFAN
01-07-2016, 07:09 AM
Easy to make this thread after a game like tonight, huh?

This is nothing new, it's been the same issues facing the Heat all year. With the exception of Chris Bosh, there is not a single player who is a 3 point threat. Team's just way too inconsistent.

Doesn't mean they regret signing Dragic, just means it's taking much longer than it should getting the team to consistently mesh.

Having the next kawhi will help.

wordup45
01-07-2016, 07:19 AM
he needs a more uptempo team.

That's exactly what I think.

IndyRealist
01-07-2016, 09:12 AM
Hassan Whiteside happened. They were going to go uptempo with Bosh at C, then they landed Whiteside and suddenly they have 3 players who excel in the halfcourt. That makes Dragic the odd man out.

GiantsSwaGG
01-07-2016, 09:18 AM
Easy to make this thread after a game like tonight, huh?

This is nothing new, it's been the same issues facing the Heat all year. With the exception of Chris Bosh, there is not a single player who is a 3 point threat. Team's just way too inconsistent.

Doesn't mean they regret signing Dragic, just means it's taking much longer than it should getting the team to consistently mesh.

He's been garbage all season

HandsOnTheWheel
01-07-2016, 09:26 AM
Having the next kawhi will help.

Great point, dude!

HandsOnTheWheel
01-07-2016, 09:31 AM
He's been garbage all season

I know. It's nothing new tho.

MonroeFAN
01-07-2016, 09:39 AM
Having the next kawhi will help.

Great point, dude!

Maybe your resolution this year should be to stop making asinine comments or otherwise live with people calling you out on them.

HandsOnTheWheel
01-07-2016, 09:58 AM
You got me Internet tough guy!

MonroeFAN
01-07-2016, 10:07 AM
I'm not a tough guy dude. Quit back tracking and stop saying stupid ****.

I've no problems with you.

HandsOnTheWheel
01-07-2016, 10:43 AM
I won't even go there.

Anyways, until the team makes a move for shooting, this team (Dragic) will continue failing to coexist.

MonroeFAN
01-07-2016, 10:44 AM
Won't go where? Talk less and listen more. No one GAF.

ATX
01-07-2016, 10:50 AM
Isn't this like the third thread we've had about this topic? And yes, convenient after the first Knicks win over the Heat in their last nine tries. Also, Dragic was not signed to a max. He was signed to a five year, $86M contract, more than $20M less than his max. Pat Riley traded two first round picks for him, thus had to do what it took to retain him in FA. His play has been subpar thus far and relatively early compared to his large (Not max) contract, but he is far from "Garbage". Just wait and see what kind of contracts players will receive once the cap is raised.

D-Leethal
01-07-2016, 10:53 AM
Wasn't Dragic always a 40% 3 point shooter? Next to Wade you obviously got him thinking his was going to stroke it from deep and space the floor for Wade. He thrived next to a similar guard in Bledsoe. Dragic doesn't even look like a difference maker - what the hell does he do well anymore?

KG2TB
01-07-2016, 10:56 AM
I always thought he was a bit overrated even in Phoenix. Good player but to give up a 1st round pick for him and then sign him to a max deal? Bad move, IMO.

D-Leethal
01-07-2016, 10:56 AM
If Dragic isn't supposed to shoot, with Wade and Whiteside who is going to shoot? Of course he was picked up to be one of the guys who can shoot in the starting 5.

Vinylman
01-07-2016, 11:02 AM
It really isn't that big of deal... he will be gone in no more than 3 years via the amnesty provision that will happen when the new CBA is signed...

ewing
01-07-2016, 11:05 AM
If Dragic isn't supposed to shoot, with Wade and Whiteside who is going to shoot? Of course he was picked up to be one of the guys who can shoot in the starting 5.

Yeah i thought he was supposed to be able to shoot too. I guess we can't criticize anyone that doesn't play with 4 guys that shoot 40% from 3. Oh and we should wait for their team to start winning every game by 10 or more

beasted86
01-07-2016, 11:06 AM
Max contract? No.

Garbage? Is that NY/Miami rivalry based hate or just general hyperbole that is a regular thing in sports discussion? Kobe Bryant, Derrick Rose, Ty Lawson, Ricky Rubio, Danny Green... those are the guards that come to mind when I think of guys who are letting their team down based on their expected contribution and their start so far.

Dragić is playing within the system on a team with 5 starters averaging double figure scoring, with two of those starters averaging 19 a game, all while on a team with the 29th out of 30 ranked pace in the league.

Raw statistics at 12/5/3 on 46% doesn't scream "garbage" given those above facts. He would thrive and produce better in a faster paced offense for sure, and his 3PT shot so far has been what I would call garbage.

He's definitely overpaid for what the HEAT ask him to contribute, but definitely not terrible overall given how the cap will rise. But I'm pretty sure you put Dragić on the Rockets with their pace and shooters and his scoring jumps back into the 18 point range quickly.

ewing
01-07-2016, 11:08 AM
I'm not a tough guy dude. Quit back tracking and stop saying stupid ****.

I've no problems with you.

Are you a *****? :)

MonroeFAN
01-07-2016, 11:12 AM
I'm not a tough guy dude. Quit back tracking and stop saying stupid ****.

I've no problems with you.

Are you a *****? :)

Are you yet another mindless member here spitting nonsense?

MonroeFAN
01-07-2016, 11:12 AM
I'm not a tough guy dude. Quit back tracking and stop saying stupid ****.

I've no problems with you.

Are you a *****? :)

Are you yet another mindless member here spitting nonsense? Is this supposed to be an insult?

beasted86
01-07-2016, 11:13 AM
If Dragic isn't supposed to shoot, with Wade and Whiteside who is going to shoot? Of course he was picked up to be one of the guys who can shoot in the starting 5.
You're right, but I also think Riley was a bit delusional with his expectations. Dragić is a career 35-36% shooter from what I recall. That's what I would call an average shooter... And he's also a low volume 3 shooter.

Miami realistically needs a 40% shooting SF along with Bosh having a career year at 40% for the spacing to become decent. Right now it's just bad unless Gerald Green is having one of those nights where he can knock down anything.

ewing
01-07-2016, 11:15 AM
Max contract? No.

Garbage? Is that NY/Miami rivalry based hate or just general hyperbole that is a regular thing in sports discussion? Kobe Bryant, Derrick Rose, Ty Lawson, Ricky Rubio, Danny Green... those are the guards that come to mind when I think of guys who are letting their team down based on their expected contribution and their start so far.

Dragić is playing within the system on a team with 5 starters averaging double figure scoring, with two of those starters averaging 19 a game, all while on a team with the 29th out of 30 ranked pace in the league.

Raw statistics at 12/5/3 on 46% doesn't scream "garbage" given those above facts. He would thrive and produce better in a faster paced offense for sure, and his 3PT shot so far has been what I would call garbage.

He's definitely overpaid for what the HEAT ask him to contribute, but definitely not terrible overall given how the cap will rise. But I'm pretty sure you put Dragić on the Rockets with their pace and shooters and his scoring jumps back into the 18 point range quickly.


He's not garbage but he I think he has definitely a disappointed based on expectation

beasted86
01-07-2016, 11:24 AM
He's not garbage but he I think he has definitely a disappointed based on expectation
His 3 shooting has surely been a let down. But otherwise, what are supposed realistic expectations to swing this the opposite way for you?

Are 3 players supposed to average 19 on Miami given their pace? They simply don't have the players or outside shooters to play at a higher pace.

ewing
01-07-2016, 11:38 AM
His 3 shooting has surely been a let down. But otherwise, what are supposed realistic expectations to swing this the opposite way for you?

Are 3 players supposed to average 19 on Miami given their pace? They simply don't have the players or outside shooters to play at a higher pace.


I don't buy it. Bosh and Wade can both run and are both still good finishers, Green, Johnson, and Whiteside are very good finishers and can run. they aren't a 3 point shooting team but only whiteside is solely a paint player. Dragic should be providing opportunistic pace, he should be creating more for others, and he should putting the ball in the hole a little more. I actually find your team interesting and I thought it would work better with Dragic but dude needs to do more.

noahopz
01-07-2016, 12:47 PM
He has been a let down and a disappointment and in contrast to he hype he has been pedestrian, which for a guy who pulled so many strings to get himself out of phoenix last year the expectation was he would put miami over the top.

the best example i can think of is ty lawson in houston in terms of a guy who had amazing numbers playing in offenses that were predicated on pushing the ball and getting up and down the floor for increased usage rates and blown up output.

as far as his three point prowess he only shot 355 one year and 408 another year since he became a starter in the NBA

he has had percentages of 329 and 340 other years, so he has never been a knock down three point shooter ever, more of a streak shooter who can get hot if there is enough volume.

I do not think he is garbage at all however to be fair

he is one of the most over paid starting point guards in the NBA.

to make 83 million over 5 years while producing raymond felton numbers is pretty bad.

just saying.

beasted86
01-07-2016, 12:59 PM
I don't buy it. Bosh and Wade can both run and are both still good finishers, Green, Johnson, and Whiteside are very good finishers and can run. they aren't a 3 point shooting team but only whiteside is solely a paint player. Dragic should be providing opportunistic pace, he should be creating more for others, and he should putting the ball in the hole a little more. I actually find your team interesting and I thought it would work better with Dragic but dude needs to do more.

Well that might seem that way from an outsiders view, but after Dragić attempting to push the pace and the team having such a mixed bag of results the first couple weeks, Wade and Bosh basically demanded the offense run strictly through them about 3 weeks back.

Dragić has been doing exactly what you're talking about providing opportunistic pace and is often a 1 man fast break with fantastic results. I love it. As a fan I really do wish to play a little more towards that style. But he simply doesn't have running partners. Whiteside doesn't know how to fill the lane and him and Dragić have no chemistry on lob passes. Whiteside is in general a poor pick setter anyhow (most HEAT fans agree).

Surprisingly they don't run a lot of units with Green and Dragić (possibly because of fear of defensive breakdowns?) even though he's probably best suited to run and is the team's most prolific 3 point shooter. Wade does not want to run, he was complaining (although attempting to pass it off as friendly joking) from since last year about the pace being too fast and instead wanting then to "pick their spots" instead of that simply being the way the offense is run most the time.

Really Dragić is a good player handcuffed in this system. Like I said, his shooting has been disappointing from outside, but he's playing within the system that Wade, Bosh, and the rest of the team simply is comfortable playing rather than complaining or starting drama like in Phoenix. This might sound like homer insight, but I can almost tell it's frustrating him but is keeping it inside because A) he just got paid a significant amount, and B) he doesn't want to be known as one of those guys who is a problem guy especially how it ended in Phoenix and seemingly after his own numbers when the HEAT has been winning for the most part.

GiantsSwaGG
01-07-2016, 02:34 PM
He has been a let down and a disappointment and in contrast to he hype he has been pedestrian, which for a guy who pulled so many strings to get himself out of phoenix last year the expectation was he would put miami over the top.

the best example i can think of is ty lawson in houston in terms of a guy who had amazing numbers playing in offenses that were predicated on pushing the ball and getting up and down the floor for increased usage rates and blown up output.

as far as his three point prowess he only shot 355 one year and 408 another year since he became a starter in the NBA

he has had percentages of 329 and 340 other years, so he has never been a knock down three point shooter ever, more of a streak shooter who can get hot if there is enough volume.

I do not think he is garbage at all however to be fair

he is one of the most over paid starting point guards in the NBA.

to make 83 million over 5 years while producing raymond felton numbers is pretty bad.

just saying.

Bingo

ATX
01-07-2016, 04:11 PM
Bingo

You say bingo, even in light of the fact that 5/$86M is much less than what was his available max contract as you stated incorrectly. It's only about 40% of the way through ONE season of his contract, and Beasted even went to the trouble of discussing some of the main reasons for a "Decline" in his numbers through 35 games this season. Naturally though, you weren't creating this thread for any other reason other than furthering your anti-Heat sentiment.

t_money25
01-07-2016, 04:39 PM
It's wayyyy to early to say that about him. This entire roster needs more time to play together and learn eachothers strengths and weaknesses. By March or April this team should be in full stride.

GiantsSwaGG
01-07-2016, 05:14 PM
You say bingo, even in light of the fact that 5/$86M is much less than what was his available max contract as you stated incorrectly. It's only about 40% of the way through ONE season of his contract, and Beasted even went to the trouble of discussing some of the main reasons for a "Decline" in his numbers through 35 games this season. Naturally though, you weren't creating this thread for any other reason other than furthering your anti-Heat sentiment.

So 5yrs $86 putting up Raymond Felton numbers is okay to you? He hasn't lived up to the contract that's why this thread was created

GiantsSwaGG
01-07-2016, 05:16 PM
And for ppl saying he needs more time, he's played with Whiteside and Wade for half a season last year, Bosh was out, so he should have some familiarity yet he's still struggling

Slug3
01-07-2016, 05:21 PM
He doesn't fit in to this team Miami puts out there. Miami wants to be a slow paced defensive first team, but he is a fast paced not good defensive PG. Miami honestly needs a PG who can hit the open 3 and play tough D. Dragic I believe can shoot, but he just doesn't. I think it would be best to move him this offseason because he doesn't fit in Miami, but I am not sure if anyone would want him for what hes making.

WaDe03
01-07-2016, 05:29 PM
Maybe your resolution this year should be to stop making asinine comments or otherwise live with people calling you out on them.

Back to your ways I see. You'll do whatever you can to throw some shade at the Heat and the fans on here. Players are compared all the time to guys that are already in the league. He's 19 years old and already an elite defender. Paul George even gave him praise for his defense but said he also has a lot to learn which makes since because like I said he's only 19. It's would be no different then me saying Stanley Johnson has Jimmy Butler potential which I really think he does. I'm a big fan of his.

WaDe03
01-07-2016, 05:39 PM
I honestly think he's picked it up lately. He was bad last night until the second half where Wade for some reason stopped being aggressive for some dumb *** reason but that's another topic. He has gotten from the start of the season that's for sure. His 3 point shot has definitely been frustrating but some nights it's there some nights it isn't. I agree with everyone saying we need another shooter or 2. As for pace I could be wrong because I don't know the exact numbers but recently I feel like we've been running a lot more and that I've seen Dragic Wade and Deng finishing a lot of those fast breaks. Our defense was just terrible last night so we didn't have many chances to get out and run.

Chronz
01-07-2016, 09:29 PM
Not sure I buy the pace of play talk, yes hes at his best when hes running but Miami was slow last year and he didn't struggle to this degree. Hes used to playing with a ball dominant guard (who struggles spacing the floor) and a rim rushing Center and alongside natural SF's. Bosh is an elite floor spacer too, so I dont understand his struggles. I know hes never been a truly elite distance shooter but he was good for at least 40% on his open/set shots in years past, this year hes bricking all of them.

I think he and Wade have a 1 sided relationship in that Wade benefits from his presence more than vice versa. At least when he played with Bledsoe, the 2 split PG duties more evenly, Wade insists on taking more of the offensive load than anyone hes ever played with so hes not getting his touches anymore, it doesn't help matters that Wade isn't the athlete he used to be to attract all that attention but I think its more about touches than anything. Dragic really looks to score when hes out there without Wade.

I know the sample is small and unadjusted but every single year, Dragic (and the team) performs better when he is the sole ball handler and surrounded by spacers and a bigman. Happened with Bledsoe, it happened with Wade and the Heat last year and its happened in the 273 minutes without Wade this year.

Miami barely sports a positive differential with both guys in but they crush it when Dragic gets to run the show so I think Spo needs to stagger their minutes alot better, they shouldn't have a 75-25 split, it should be an even 50-50. Half of their time on the floor should be as the primary ball handler, should help the Heat mask their shallow bench.

ewing
01-08-2016, 12:24 AM
Not sure I buy the pace of play talk, yes hes at his best when hes running but Miami was slow last year and he didn't struggle to this degree. Hes used to playing with a ball dominant guard (who struggles spacing the floor) and a rim rushing Center and alongside natural SF's. Bosh is an elite floor spacer too, so I dont understand his struggles. I know hes never been a truly elite distance shooter but he was good for at least 40% on his open/set shots in years past, this year hes bricking all of them.

I think he and Wade have a 1 sided relationship in that Wade benefits from his presence more than vice versa. At least when he played with Bledsoe, the 2 split PG duties more evenly, Wade insists on taking more of the offensive load than anyone hes ever played with so hes not getting his touches anymore, it doesn't help matters that Wade isn't the athlete he used to be to attract all that attention but I think its more about touches than anything. Dragic really looks to score when hes out there without Wade.

I know the sample is small and unadjusted but every single year, Dragic (and the team) performs better when he is the sole ball handler and surrounded by spacers and a bigman. Happened with Bledsoe, it happened with Wade and the Heat last year and its happened in the 273 minutes without Wade this year.

Miami barely sports a positive differential with both guys in but they crush it when Dragic gets to run the show so I think Spo needs to stagger their minutes alot better, they shouldn't have a 75-25 split, it should be an even 50-50. Half of their time on the floor should be as the primary ball handler, should help the Heat mask their shallow bench.

good analysis chonrz. If those numbers hold up it is a problem. If they gel as the year goes on like heat fans are suggesting it would be a mistake to not play them together though. Tough call but right now i think he is disappointing and there offensive isn't as good as it should be as a result. I actually hope they stay healthy so we can see it play out

TylerSL
01-08-2016, 01:28 AM
Signed to a Max contract and has been garbage, what happen? Are the Heat regretting signing him?

Dragic didn't sign a max though, he didn't even come close to a max. He signed for over $25 million less than the max at 5 years $85 million. Yeah his numbers are down, but his real issue is he hasn't been hitting his outside shots to save his life. I don't know the numbers, but his 3 point% is probably awful and he doesn't even hit most of his jump shots. He's still been a good floor general and sets the pace for the team, just cant hit shots. Yeah he got a lot of money, but this idea that he got a max is just idiotic...

IndyRealist
01-08-2016, 01:34 AM
Dragic didn't sign a max though, he didn't even come close to a max. He signed for over $25 million less than the max at 5 years $85 million. Yeah his numbers are down, but his real issue is he hasn't been hitting his outside shots to save his life. I don't know the numbers, but his 3 point% is probably awful and he doesn't even hit most of his jump shots. He's still been a good floor general and sets the pace for the team, just cant hit shots. Yeah he got a lot of money, but this idea that he got a max is just idiotic...

29% on 3s, was 32% last year. 51% on 2s, was 54% last year.

MonroeFAN
01-08-2016, 05:28 AM
Maybe your resolution this year should be to stop making asinine comments or otherwise live with people calling you out on them.

Back to your ways I see. You'll do whatever you can to throw some shade at the Heat and the fans on here. Players are compared all the time to guys that are already in the league. He's 19 years old and already an elite defender. Paul George even gave him praise for his defense but said he also has a lot to learn which makes since because like I said he's only 19. It's would be no different then me saying Stanley Johnson has Jimmy Butler potential which I really think he does. I'm a big fan of his.

In what universe is it ok to make statements like "we gave up a win to a team like the Pistons" after being blown out in the first meeting?

Wade is not the #2 SG
Whiteside is not the #1 center
Winslow is not kawhi

If you have realistic expectations for your team I will be fair with you.

WaDe03
01-08-2016, 02:22 PM
In what universe is it ok to make statements like "we gave up a win to a team like the Pistons" after being blown out in the first meeting?

Wade is not the #2 SG
Whiteside is not the #1 center
Winslow is not kawhi

If you have realistic expectations for your team I will be fair with you.

We came out with 0 effort against yall the first game lucky for you yall shot the 3 of your ***** the first 2 games against us and half of our bench along with Dragic was out the 2nd game and the bench couldn't hold a lead. Not to mention Reggie traveled on that pass to end the game. I never said Whiteside is the best center, Cousins is. I believe Wade is a top 3 SG and yea Winslow isn't Kawhi he's a rookie with a lot of potential though. I dont see what you're not understanding about that. I'm not saying Winslow is Kawhi right now I'm saying he has the potential to be because he's 19 and is already elite on defense. He holds his opponents 10% below their 3pt average and Kawhi holds them 7-8%. He's obviously not a better defender but there's already some things he does really good on defense. They also both have that same emotionless style and maturity about them. Players always get compared. It doesn't seem too "asinine" that people were comparing Kobe to Jordan or LeBron to Jordan/Magic because now they're both top 10 all-time. I don't see why it's so crazy to compare someone to somebody that won't even sniff top 20 all time. You said the Pistons and Celtics were the 2nd and 3rd best teams in the East and you want to come at me saying I'm not realistic.

Cavs
Heat
Bulls
Raptors
Hawks
Pacers

Those 6 teams are all better than those 2 and don't give me regular season games because we all know that doesn't mean **** in the postseason where these teams will be way too talent and yall won't be able to beat any of them 4 times in a series. They all also have a lot more postseason experience too. You must be going through something lately you've been coming at everyone on here sideways that disagrees with you. You're not a hard *** man, especially behind a computer screen popping off at everyone. Is everything at work and home ok?