PDA

View Full Version : If OKC kept Harden, would they be the favorite?



LOb0
01-06-2016, 03:12 PM
Its really a shame The Thunder are so cheap because a series with those two teams would have been nuts. Do you think they would beat GS this year if they kept Harden?

AI
01-06-2016, 03:24 PM
A small ball lineup for OKC of Reggie Jackson, Westbrook, Harden, KD and Ibaka would be insane.

xbrackattackx
01-06-2016, 03:27 PM
A small ball lineup for OKC of Reggie Jackson, Westbrook, Harden, KD and Ibaka would be insane.

Who would shoot though...Westy,Jackson and Harden are very ball dominant. I like Okc better with Deron Willams and Brook Lopez. If they would have traded with the Nets.

Deron-Westy-Durant-Ibaka-Lopez would be a nice balanced team.

Tony_Starks
01-06-2016, 03:27 PM
would've had 2 rings by now. Minimum. Especially with small ball.

Scoots
01-06-2016, 03:30 PM
I think that if OKC signed Kent Bazemore they'd be contending. OKC has been so good for so long they have always been one small thing from contending and they keep screwing it up.

The old coach got too much run, the new coach appears to be the wrong coach, health has been a major factor ... I don't know that Harden, Westy, and KD could operate together anymore as all 3 are so ball dominant.

KnicksorBust
01-06-2016, 03:41 PM
Its really a shame The Thunder are so cheap because a series with those two teams would have been nuts. Do you think they would beat GS this year if they kept Harden?

The travesty was letting him go a year too soon. They had the full year of him at his bargain deal.

KnicksorBust
01-06-2016, 03:42 PM
A small ball lineup for OKC of Reggie Jackson, Westbrook, Harden, KD and Ibaka would be insane.

I don't know if Jackson is the missing piece in that lineup but I agree small ball lineups of them vs. GState would be insane. Stretches with Durant and Green as the center.

KnicksorBust
01-06-2016, 03:43 PM
I think that if OKC signed Kent Bazemore they'd be contending. OKC has been so good for so long they have always been one small thing from contending and they keep screwing it up.

The old coach got too much run, the new coach appears to be the wrong coach, health has been a major factor ... I don't know that Harden, Westy, and KD could operate together anymore as all 3 are so ball dominant.

What is wrong with Billy Donovan?

LOb0
01-06-2016, 03:47 PM
What is wrong with Billy Donovan?

lol he appears to not have a concept of the NBA game. Have you missed hundreds of people bashing him?

KnicksorBust
01-06-2016, 03:54 PM
lol he appears to not have a concept of the NBA game. Have you missed hundreds of people bashing him?

Their offense looks great and he is blending Westbrook/Durant better than Brooks ever did. Plus as a team they have one of the best records in the league and are only getting hotter.

LOb0
01-06-2016, 03:58 PM
Their offense looks great and he is blending Westbrook/Durant better than Brooks ever did. Plus as a team they have one of the best records in the league and are only getting hotter.

I don't watch every OKC game so I'm sure people could break it down better but from what I heard was he was resting Durant and Westbrook at the same time which is idiotic, one of them should be on the court at all times. And the Dion Waiters thing, that man needs to be benched asap. He is abysmal. I don't think people were liking the offense in the beginning of the year

5ass
01-06-2016, 04:04 PM
The travesty was letting him go a year too soon. They had the full year of him at his bargain deal.

And for what? To keep Perkins? LMAO. I swear its like the OKC FO fell asleep after they drafted Reggie Jackson.

beasted86
01-06-2016, 04:08 PM
Who is around them? Who is the coach?

Are they are like Miami in the first year of the big 3 where you had a far below average talent like Joel Anthony forced into the main rotation?

Trying to form a realistic mix of current and past guys taking into account keeping as small as possible salaries and such: Westbrook, Harden, Durant, Ibaka, Adams, Telfair, Morrow, Roberson, McGary, Aldrich as their main 10...... Is very good, but I'm not sure that's as good as GSW.

LOb0
01-06-2016, 04:09 PM
And for what? To keep Perkins? LMAO. I swear its like the OKC FO fell asleep after they drafted Reggie Jackson.

To make it even worse, they only would offer harden 55 Million for 4 years. They just signed Kanter to 70 million.

LOb0
01-06-2016, 04:11 PM
Who is around them? Who is the coach?

Are they are like Miami in the first year of the big 3 where you had a far below average talent like Joel Anthony forced into the main rotation?

Trying to form a realistic mix of current and past guys taking into account keeping as small as possible salaries and such: Westbrook, Harden, Durant, Ibaka, Adams, Telfair, Morrow, Roberson, McGary, Aldrich as their main 10...... Is very good, but I'm not sure that's as good as GSW.

In the playoffs that matters alot less. Had Bron not choked Miami would have won that first year. But you're right they could use at least one solid bench guy.

Bostonjorge
01-06-2016, 04:13 PM
No team has the defenseive scheme to stop all 3. Could of been one of the greatest teams ever.

MygirlhatesCod
01-06-2016, 05:53 PM
I don't think it would ever work with harden and westbrook. two ball hogs would ruin every other player on the team.

LOb0
01-06-2016, 07:09 PM
I don't think it would ever work with harden and westbrook. two ball hogs would ruin every other player on the team.

lol instead of that now they only have 3 players on the team

Redrum187
01-06-2016, 10:19 PM
I'm not convinced they would be the favorite.

With as much help as Kevin Durant has had his entire career, he has almost nothing to show for it. How much damn help does he need to win a ring?

I'm reminded of the 11' Finals where there was a big 3-headed monster in the Miami Heat that was slayed by the hands of Dirk Nowitzki and the Mavericks. The Mavericks were simply a better team with roles that were established and executed better than the Heat. Of course, one could argue that the Heat didn't have the continuity that the Thunder would have if their big 3 were still together, but Golden State already has that continuity with perhaps an even better fit and more talented players than the Dallas Mavericks (who destroyed the Thunder's big 3 in the 11' postseason).

Golden State Warriors are like the 11' Mavericks on roids, Thunder's big 3 wouldn't be significantly different, if at all.

FlashBolt
01-06-2016, 10:36 PM
It's not going to work. Would it be fun to watch? Probably. But in a perfect scenario, I don't think you'll be seeing the same Durant and Westbrook. For one, Westbrook is already a better player than Harden. But we won't see this type of Westbrook at all since Harden would take up that USG%. We should have let go of Harden AND Ibaka. That trade for Perkins was a complete waste of our cap and screwed us over at the C position for many years. Our frontcourt is terrible and we still have no bench. I'd take all those over Harden/Ibaka.

basch152
01-06-2016, 10:44 PM
It's like Love in cleveland. You're just wasting offensive talent because there isn't enough shots to go around, meanwhole you have a pretty bad unit on the other end of the court.

DanG
01-06-2016, 11:15 PM
Yes they would be the favourites. I mean you don't win games on paper, but Harden alongisde KD and Westbrook is just too much.

LOb0
01-07-2016, 12:11 AM
I'm not convinced they would be the favorite.

With as much help as Kevin Durant has had his entire career, he has almost nothing to show for it. How much damn help does he need to win a ring?

I'm reminded of the 11' Finals where there was a big 3-headed monster in the Miami Heat that was slayed by the hands of Dirk Nowitzki and the Mavericks. The Mavericks were simply a better team with roles that were established and executed better than the Heat. Of course, one could argue that the Heat didn't have the continuity that the Thunder would have if their big 3 were still together, but Golden State already has that continuity with perhaps an even better fit and more talented players than the Dallas Mavericks (who destroyed the Thunder's big 3 in the 11' postseason).

Golden State Warriors are like the 11' Mavericks on roids, Thunder's big 3 wouldn't be significantly different, if at all.

Bron's all-time bad choke job was why they lost that series.

Redrum187
01-07-2016, 12:37 AM
Bron's all-time bad choke job was why they lost that series.

Naw, his stats were pretty good to great for games 1 and 2 (not to mention what he did prior to the Finals), but Carlisle and his coaching staff with the addition of Dirk playing like the best player on the planet for the entire postseason is the reason the Heat lost.

LOb0
01-07-2016, 12:42 AM
Naw, his stats were pretty good to great for games 1 and 2 (not to mention for the rest of the postseason), but Carlisle and his coaching staff with the addition of Dirk playing like the best player on the planet for the entire postseason is the reason the Heat lost.

Largest Single Regular Season to NBA Finals PPG drop-off

1. Lebron James 2011: -8.9 ppg (26.7, 17.8)

LeBron was terrible in that finals.

IKnowHoops
01-07-2016, 01:17 AM
Largest Single Regular Season to NBA Finals PPG drop-off

1. Lebron James 2011: -8.9 ppg (26.7, 17.8)

LeBron was terrible in that finals.

Exactly, still one of the most unexplainable collapses.

FlashBolt
01-07-2016, 01:21 AM
Largest Single Regular Season to NBA Finals PPG drop-off

1. Lebron James 2011: -8.9 ppg (26.7, 17.8)

LeBron was terrible in that finals.

I agree that it was the most disappointing Finals performance from an NBA superstar ever but at the same time, he wasn't terrible. Disappointing? Most definitely.

numba1CHANGsta
01-07-2016, 01:22 AM
It would have been Cavs vs OKC in the Finals for the next 5 years

Dade County
01-07-2016, 01:29 AM
Naw, his stats were pretty good to great for games 1 and 2 (not to mention for the rest of the postseason), but Carlisle and his coaching staff with the addition of Dirk playing like the best player on the planet for the entire postseason is the reason the Heat lost.

You've lost your damn mind.


Lbj for 4 straight games, in the 4th qtr, avg under 4pts..

He didn't shot, he didn't put any pressure on Dallas D... He didn't setup anyone.

It was not a choke job.

Redrum187
01-07-2016, 02:22 AM
You've lost your damn mind.


Lbj for 4 straight games, in the 4th qtr, avg under 4pts..

He didn't shot, he didn't put any pressure on Dallas D... He didn't setup anyone.

It was not a choke job.

I have every game of that series and have watched it numerous times. LeBron was good-to-great the first 2 games. That's when Carlisle made some adjustments. This is why he is considered 2nd best coach in the NBA today. Carlisle gave the NBA the blueprints to how to play LeBron in the playoffs.

Did LeBron have a noticeable drop off after game 2? Absolutely, but the reason the Heat lost isn't because of LeBron. Give the Mavericks organization (Dirk playing like the best player on the planet) credit rather than condemn LeBron.

edit: I just realize I said "for the rest of the postseason" but I didn't mean games 4, 5, 6. I meant round 1, 2, etc... He was unstoppable prior to game 3 of the Finals.

Redrum187
01-07-2016, 02:29 AM
Exactly, still one of the most unexplainable collapses.

It's easily explained. The Heat didn't have anyone to space the floor nor did they have an excellent fit as a team. The Mavericks also threw Stevenson, Marion, and Kidd at Lebron, letting Wade do his work. Had Carlisle felt Wade was the more dangerous threat, he would have focus his defensive strategy on him rather than LeBron. Pace was also something Carlisle accredited Coach Pop for when defeating the Heat.

LOb0
01-07-2016, 09:44 AM
It's easily explained. The Heat didn't have anyone to space the floor nor did they have an excellent fit as a team. The Mavericks also threw Stevenson, Marion, and Kidd at Lebron, letting Wade do his work. Had Carlisle felt Wade was the more dangerous threat, he would have focus his defensive strategy on him rather than LeBron. Pace was also something Carlisle accredited Coach Pop for when defeating the Heat.


lol no. Bron wasn't even trying to drive and they were guarding him with point guards at times. He was airballing shots 3 feet from the rim. He had an 8 point game. He choked same as he did in 2010 against Boston. No defense makes you not take shots and be aggressive. He was frozen.

That's not to take away anything from Dirk, that was still one of the greatest playoff runs in NBA history. He beat Kobe and Pau, Westbrook and Durant and Wade, Bosh and Bron.

But he did choke, and was one of the worst choke jobs in NBA history.

Dade County
01-07-2016, 10:49 AM
I have every game of that series and have watched it numerous times. LeBron was good-to-great the first 2 games. That's when Carlisle made some adjustments. This is why he is considered 2nd best coach in the NBA today. Carlisle gave the NBA the blueprints to how to play LeBron in the playoffs.

Did LeBron have a noticeable drop off after game 2? Absolutely, but the reason the Heat lost isn't because of LeBron. Give the Mavericks organization (Dirk playing like the best player on the planet) credit rather than condemn LeBron.

edit: I just realize I said "for the rest of the postseason" but I didn't mean games 4, 5, 6. I meant round 1, 2, etc... He was unstoppable prior to game 3 of the Finals.

Dallas had nothing to do with Lbj not trying to score... Go back and re-watch then.

Then after you do that, go back and Watch Lbj vs the Pistons when he was with the Cav's the first go around.

Maybe you might wakeup and notice the truth.



lol no. Bron wasn't even trying to drive and they were guarding him with point guards at times. He was airballing shots 3 feet from the rim. He had an 8 point game. He choked same as he did in 2010 against Boston. No defense makes you not take shots and be aggressive. He was frozen.

That's not to take away anything from Dirk, that was still one of the greatest playoff runs in NBA history. He beat Kobe and Pau, Westbrook and Durant and Wade, Bosh and Bron.

But he did choke, and was one of the worst choke jobs in NBA history.


Nothing to do with that man.

He gave Dallas a championship.

LOb0
01-07-2016, 12:13 PM
Dallas had nothing to do with Lbj not trying to score... Go back and re-watch then.

Then after you do that, go back and Watch Lbj vs the Pistons when he was with the Cav's the first go around.

Maybe you might wakeup and notice the truth.





Nothing to do with that man.

He gave Dallas a championship.

I agree with you. I said defense doesn't make you not aggressive that was all Bron

KnicksorBust
01-07-2016, 12:29 PM
lol no. Bron wasn't even trying to drive and they were guarding him with point guards at times. He was airballing shots 3 feet from the rim. He had an 8 point game. He choked same as he did in 2010 against Boston. No defense makes you not take shots and be aggressive. He was frozen.

That's not to take away anything from Dirk, that was still one of the greatest playoff runs in NBA history. He beat Kobe and Pau, Westbrook and Durant and Wade, Bosh and Bron.

But he did choke, and was one of the worst choke jobs in NBA history.


Dallas had nothing to do with Lbj not trying to score... Go back and re-watch then.

Then after you do that, go back and Watch Lbj vs the Pistons when he was with the Cav's the first go around.

Maybe you might wakeup and notice the truth.





Nothing to do with that man.

He gave Dallas a championship.

Mark Cuban disagrees. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAkVnlA9CJo

Stinkyoutsider
01-07-2016, 01:06 PM
I think one thing that probably should be discussed with this topic is Harden's development as a player if he did stay in OKC. We all know Harden today as the first option in Houston and he has a lot of the scoring burden on him. This wouldn't have been the case in OKC though imo.

During Harden's time at OKC, I liked when he was the distributor and had Durant and Westbrook running the wings. Westbrook has gotten a lot of criticism over his playmaking decisions and I thought this was Harden's greatest strength with the Thunder. It just seemed that Harden didn't care who he passed the ball to as long as they were open.

IMO, the Thunder would have been to the Finals again if the core was held together. Unfortunately, OKC decided to go with a very good post defender in Perkins (at the time) to try to become a more balanced team.

FlashBolt
01-07-2016, 02:19 PM
I think one thing that probably should be discussed with this topic is Harden's development as a player if he did stay in OKC. We all know Harden today as the first option in Houston and he has a lot of the scoring burden on him. This wouldn't have been the case in OKC though imo.

During Harden's time at OKC, I liked when he was the distributor and had Durant and Westbrook running the wings. Westbrook has gotten a lot of criticism over his playmaking decisions and I thought this was Harden's greatest strength with the Thunder. It just seemed that Harden didn't care who he passed the ball to as long as they were open.

IMO, the Thunder would have been to the Finals again if the core was held together. Unfortunately, OKC decided to go with a very good post defender in Perkins (at the time) to try to become a more balanced team.

Which has screwed us for the past few years. He became a huge liability offensively and defensively, he always got into foul trouble/became frustrated and went on a technical spree.

I don't think we need Harden nor did we need Ibaka. We needed a frontcourt presence who we can feed lobs to and thus, create more space for Westbrook/KD. We need a bench because quite frankly, our bench is probably the worst out there. We have guys doing too many things and not understanding their role(s). Donovan is probably a good enough coach at the collegiate level but he is far from being an NBA coach for an ELITE NBA team that has a legitimate shot at capturing the title.

Harden simply wouldn't work on this team. At some point, a team gets too stacked and it'd be best to share the ball among two ball-dominant players rather than three so you can achieve the maximum potential of your player(s). Even now, people are saying Westbrook hogs the ball. How would that work if Harden/KD/Westbrook are all splitting that ball?

LOb0
01-07-2016, 02:21 PM
Mark Cuban disagrees. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAkVnlA9CJo

Cuban also wanted to run an offense though Deandre Jordan. What's your point?

KnicksorBust
01-07-2016, 03:49 PM
Mark Cuban disagrees. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAkVnlA9CJo

Cuban also wanted to run an offense though Deandre Jordan. What's your point?

That an intelligent person with inside knowledge about the defensive strategies of the Mavericks believes LeBron didn't choke. Wouldn't you agree that he brings a unique albeit biased perspective?

FlashBolt
01-07-2016, 06:39 PM
LeBron did choke. What Dallas did had something to do with LeBron playing the way he did but how many times has LeBron faced the same strategy and dominated? He has done well against that system before. Dallas Mavericks may have beaten and won that championship but IMO, LeBron lost it for them. Of course Cuban would say it was what the Mavs did and not what LeBron didn't do... he's giving his team credit and in a time in which everything was about LeBron, you can't blame him. LeBron didn't show up at all. He looked passive, didn't want the ball, looked disinterested, and ultimately, didn't show the same passion he had for the game the following two seasons. I'm one of the biggest James fan's here but there is no question that he had more to do with the loss than what Mavs did.