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Tg11
01-06-2016, 01:03 PM
If anything in your opinion this season who do you think is the most underrated team in the entire NBA?

MonroeFAN
01-06-2016, 02:21 PM
Boston or Detroit, I honestly think they're the 2nd and 3rd best teams in the east and I know I'm not completely alone, but would be in the minority. When the "top" teams in the east begin to play harder schedules you'll see a major shift. Luckily detroit's hardest part of their schedule is about wrapped up.

KnicksorBust
01-06-2016, 03:57 PM
Boston or Detroit, I honestly think they're the 2nd and 3rd best teams in the east and I know I'm not completely alone, but would be in the minority. When the "top" teams in the east begin to play harder schedules you'll see a major shift. Luckily detroit's hardest part of their schedule is about wrapped up.

Detroit was overrated at the start of the season and I called it. Now they are back where they belong.

Grizzlies are the most underrated right now.

tredigs
01-06-2016, 04:56 PM
Clippers. For all their faults this team still has a crazy amount of talent and were unlucky enough/good enough to take out the Spurs in the 1st round last year. I'd still take them in a series over anyone in the East outside of Cleveland, and if they were clicking they could beat Cleveland as well. No way they make it through the West's gauntlet assuming all teams are healthy, but they're a potentially extremely dangerous team to a contender.

kdspurman
01-06-2016, 05:17 PM
Agree w/Clips^ They're still quite dangerous and not talked about much

celticsman2009
01-06-2016, 05:18 PM
Boston

flea
01-06-2016, 05:21 PM
Mavs to me. They've got one of the 3 best coaches and a very good starting unit when they're healthy. The bench seems okay from the games I've seen (Powell/McGee, Felton, Harris/Barrea) but Carlisle always gets a lot out of a bunch of quick guards and athletic big men. I think it'll come down to Dirk having a good playoffs, Parsons getting back to where he was, and Deron continuing to do what he's doing.

All in all, I think they could be as good as the 4th best team in the West.

Redrum187
01-06-2016, 05:25 PM
A lot of people (dare I say majority?) didn't have the Mavericks even making the postseason this past offseason (at least not on PSD threads). They currently sit 5th and have beaten some pretty legitimate teams thus far.

The Clippers were projected to be 3rd or 4th so I don't see them as underrated whatsoever. If anything I'd argue they have been a disappointment. Although, they are finally starting to win some games.

The Grizzlies are essentially in the same book as the Clippers for me. I expected a lot more out of them.

Detroit surprised me early on, but they have come back down to earth.

Orlando Magic might be a good consideration. With Victor on the bench, the team is playing quite well. It's a bit surprising to me to say the least.

MonroeFAN
01-06-2016, 05:27 PM
Boston or Detroit, I honestly think they're the 2nd and 3rd best teams in the east and I know I'm not completely alone, but would be in the minority. When the "top" teams in the east begin to play harder schedules you'll see a major shift. Luckily detroit's hardest part of their schedule is about wrapped up.

Detroit was overrated at the start of the season and I called it. Now they are back where they belong.

Grizzlies are the most underrated right now.

Back to beating eastern conference playoff teams by 20?

Congrats on suggesting they wouldn't win 60 games. I'm guessing you didn't read my comment. We've had basically the hardest schedule now for the 2nd season in a row. But once eastern conference teams have to go out west (like we already have) you're going to be eating your words. Brandon Jennings had 16 & 7 off the bench the other day. **** is going to get real fast.

Until then get off my lawn.

tredigs
01-06-2016, 05:58 PM
A lot of people (dare I say majority?) didn't have the Mavericks even making the postseason this past offseason (at least not on PSD threads). They currently sit 5th and have beaten some pretty legitimate teams thus far.

The Clippers were projected to be 3rd or 4th so I don't see them as underrated whatsoever. If anything I'd argue they have been a disappointment. Although, they are finally starting to win some games.

The Grizzlies are essentially in the same book as the Clippers for me. I expected a lot more out of them.

Detroit surprised me early on, but they have come back down to earth.

Orlando Magic might be a good consideration. With Victor on the bench, the team is playing quite well. It's a bit surprising to me to say the least.

They were "projected to be", sure, but as of right now they are an afterthought and tossed aside as fodder (if brought up at all) when discussing elite teams. Interesting thing is that this newer run is without Blake.

Chronz
01-06-2016, 06:11 PM
Clips.

Bias aside: Clips

Clips aside:

Not the Grizz or the Mavs

5ass
01-06-2016, 06:26 PM
A lot of people (dare I say majority?) didn't have the Mavericks even making the postseason this past offseason (at least not on PSD threads). They currently sit 5th and have beaten some pretty legitimate teams thus far.

The Clippers were projected to be 3rd or 4th so I don't see them as underrated whatsoever. If anything I'd argue they have been a disappointment. Although, they are finally starting to win some games.

The Grizzlies are essentially in the same book as the Clippers for me. I expected a lot more out of them.

Detroit surprised me early on, but they have come back down to earth.

Orlando Magic might be a good consideration. With Victor on the bench, the team is playing quite well. It's a bit surprising to me to say the least.

I feel the Magic were underrated by almost everyone beginning of the season. They're not a top team in the east, but I think they're better than the Celtics, hornets, knicks. If you think they can't win 42 games and make the play offs you're under rating them. I still have 8 eastern conference teams over them including the wizards and pistons. That being said, I believe injuries will probably knock one of those 8 teams out of the play offs.

Redrum187
01-06-2016, 06:36 PM
They were "projected to be", sure, but as of right now they are an afterthought and tossed aside as fodder (if brought up at all) when discussing elite teams. Interesting thing is that this newer run is without Blake.

You have a point. Even I stop talking about them if it weren't for threads asking which teams are disappointing so far this year. However, I don't think a lack of talking about a team automatically means you are underestimating their squad. They have CP3, Griffin, Jordan, Redick and what I thought were going to be solid bench pieces. They are still one of the better teams in the West, no worse than top 6. Anyone who thinks the Clippers were going to be trash all season long must undervalue their stars.

Redrum187
01-06-2016, 06:41 PM
Clips.

Bias aside: Clips

Clips aside:

Not the Grizz or the Mavs

Out of curiosity, Clippers aside, why not the Mavs who have been on par with the Clippers record wise up until a few days ago? The Clippers individual talent is far superior than what the Mavericks have. The reason the Mavericks are relatively on par with the Clippers record wise is more to do with Carlisle being a superior coach to Rivers than it does with the Mavericks having better players (in which I don't think anyone would make that argument).

LanceUpperCut
01-06-2016, 07:04 PM
I do think NYK are underrated somewhat, their not a playoff team but if they stay healthy could be fairly close. But overall I'd say OKC is still a contender and many don't seem to think so.

KnicksorBust
01-07-2016, 06:44 PM
Clips.

Bias aside: Clips

Clips aside:

Not the Grizz or the Mavs

How are the Clips underrated when most people have them in their top 5? ::confused::

flea
01-07-2016, 08:23 PM
Unless the Clips bench gets better I don't think they're underrated at all. In fact I think they probably peaked last year.

DJ is a vet now and unlikely to improve - he doesn't have the hands or skill to be a scorer and it appears he doesn't have the instincts or IQ to be a high level defender. If anything I think he declines as his athleticism does like Howard.

CP3 and Reddick are small guards over the age of 30 - I think hoping that they perform as well as last year is the best one can hope for. Now that's still very good, possibly the best backcourt outside of Warriors, but it's not trending up.

SF is at best like it was last year. Barnes was old and only a role player in his best days, but he still knew the system and played with good defensive intensity. Now I don't even know who starts at SF for the Clips? Wes Johnson? Maybe the depth at the position is better but the starter's production I doubt is. Best I'd say they can hope for there is to stay neutral.

Then there's Blake. I was critical of him to start his career because he was a PF with a SF's size who couldn't bring it defensively inside or out, couldn't hit a J, and didn't have a back to the basket game. He's improved all aspects and is one of my more favored players to watch now - but will he improve from where? He's declined on the boards and still isn't a difference-maker defensively. Will those things change? I am not sure.

Then the bench. IDK, a Clips fan will have to tell me if it's better. It hasn't looked like it in the 5-10 games I've watched. If I were Doc I'd stagger Blake/Paul's minutes better and play big in bench units. If you can't out-shoot other teams' small ball benches then why not beat them up? Paul/Stephenson/Smith/Blake/Aldrich and Rivers/Stephenson/Johnson/Smith/Aldrich as your two lineups when your stars rest. You've got the passing to make it work - look at the Spurs with their giant lineups. Maybe it doesn't work, but it's a thought.

Chronz
01-07-2016, 09:01 PM
Out of curiosity, Clippers aside, why not the Mavs who have been on par with the Clippers record wise up until a few days ago? The Clippers individual talent is far superior than what the Mavericks have. The reason the Mavericks are relatively on par with the Clippers record wise is more to do with Carlisle being a superior coach to Rivers than it does with the Mavericks having better players (in which I don't think anyone would make that argument).

Well we've been without CP3/Blake/Reddick for a few games already and we've been struggling integrating the new guys and finding a consistent rotation. Despite this, they sport the far superior efficiency scores whereas the Mavs seem to be overachieving. Looking at their PT Differential, you'd think they were a .500 team. Dirk-Carlisle led teams tend to overachieve in the clutch so its part of their identity, I just think its alil flukey. I dont see them improving much and I think they slide alot more defensively in the coming weeks. I would LOVE to see them in R.1 tho, hope they sustain their insane ability to win close games but I wouldn't bank on it

Chronz
01-07-2016, 09:02 PM
How are the Clips underrated when most people have them in their top 5? ::confused::

Even if thats true, its a clear separation but its totally justified given how they started the year.

Redrum187
01-07-2016, 10:37 PM
Well we've been without CP3/Blake/Reddick for a few games already and we've been struggling integrating the new guys and finding a consistent rotation. Despite this, they sport the far superior efficiency scores whereas the Mavs seem to be overachieving. Looking at their PT Differential, you'd think they were a .500 team. Dirk-Carlisle led teams tend to overachieve in the clutch so its part of their identity, I just think its alil flukey. I dont see them improving much and I think they slide alot more defensively in the coming weeks. I would LOVE to see them in R.1 tho, hope they sustain their insane ability to win close games but I wouldn't bank on it

Wouldn't "over-achieving" be a significant variable to consider when talking about being underrated?

As for flukey, I'd say the exact opposite. Carlisle consistently squeezes 50 win seasons with inferior talent compared the other 50 win teams. IIRC, the year the Spurs won the championship (2014) Carlisle took the Spurs to 7 games with Calderon at PG, Ellis at SG, Shawn Marion at SF and Dalembert at C. Dalembert and Marion aren't even in the league now, Knick fans have screamed to get rid of Calderon, and Ellis is an average starter.

While the Clippers have been without CP3, Blake, Redick for a few games, the Mavericks, likewise, have had Deron Williams, Wes Matthews, Chandler Prasons miss games due to injury, and have even rested Dirk for multiple games. The difference, even when Blake was healthy and didn't miss any time, the Clippers were still underachieving noticeably.

I could understand if the Mavericks won 3, 4, maybe 5 OTs in a row that it's a fluke and to bet against it, but I think they are at 9 straight OT victories (counting double OT). The reason they win close games that consistently isn't "luck", it's because Carlisle trusts veterans (he has a short leash for rookies). Veterans tend to close out better than younger guys, even if the veterans lack the agility, athleticism, and overall talent as their younger counterparts.

Redrum187
01-07-2016, 10:49 PM
Even if thats true, its a clear separation but its totally justified given how they started the year.

Ironically, I'm not even a Clippers but I think anyone having the Clippers out of the top 6 isn't being 100% objective.

1.) They beat the Spurs.
2.) They have a top 3 PG.
3.) They have a top 2-3 PF.
4.) They have a defensive anchor who eats rebounds for breakfast.
5.) They have a deadly 3PT sniper.
6.) They have a veteran bench.

Prior to the season, I would say a dominant majority of people had Clippers in the top 5 in the West. The fact they have loss so many games with the talent they have gives credence to being overrated, not underrated. If the majority of people have the Clippers out of the top 6 in the West, I'll submit that they are now becoming underrated.

tsubibo
01-07-2016, 11:07 PM
Boston. I am a little surprised that they are at the mid of the playoff race in the east right now.

Chronz
01-07-2016, 11:50 PM
Wouldn't "over-achieving" be a significant variable to consider when talking about being underrated?

As for flukey, I'd say the exact opposite. Carlisle consistently squeezes 50 win seasons with inferior talent compared the other 50 win teams. IIRC, the year the Spurs won the championship (2014) Carlisle took the Spurs to 7 games with Calderon at PG, Ellis at SG, Shawn Marion at SF and Dalembert at C. Dalembert and Marion aren't even in the league now, Knick fans have screamed to get rid of Calderon, and Ellis is an average starter.

While the Clippers have been without CP3, Blake, Redick for a few games, the Mavericks, likewise, have had Deron Williams, Wes Matthews, Chandler Prasons miss games due to injury, and have even rested Dirk for multiple games. The difference, even when Blake was healthy and didn't miss any time, the Clippers were still underachieving noticeably.

I could understand if the Mavericks won 3, 4, maybe 5 OTs in a row that it's a fluke and to bet against it, but I think they are at 9 straight OT victories (counting double OT). The reason they win close games that consistently isn't "luck", it's because Carlisle trusts veterans (he has a short leash for rookies). Veterans tend to close out better than younger guys, even if the veterans lack the agility, athleticism, and overall talent as their younger counterparts.

You could argue that and more, the Mavs may very well sustain their winning% and be a consistent overachiever, but I still think this is going to decline drastically for the first time in forever.Good point about their injuries but I wouldn't call Mathews a significant loss at this point, his initial year is just a recovery year IMO, similar story with Parsons but I guess both are rounding into form. Deron has been a surprisingly productive player and part of why they've been so clutch this year. Blake hasn't really been healthy for awhile from what I heard and CP3 entered the season nursing injuries but yes, we were definitely underachieving, much of it due to growing pains + injuries.

If Parsons+Wesley regain their prior forms, then they will be a legitimately scary first round opponent considering Rick Carlisle coaching history. I can see Zaza having a banner year this late in his career, Dirk has that effect on alot of frontcourt teammates, I just cant see Zaza staying healthy all year. I think they finish beneath the Rockets in the standings/efficiency scale and among all the potential playoff teams, I would love them vs any other so far.

Redrum187
01-08-2016, 01:22 AM
You could argue that and more, the Mavs may very well sustain their winning% and be a consistent overachiever, but I still think this is going to decline drastically for the first time in forever.Good point about their injuries but I wouldn't call Mathews a significant loss at this point, his initial year is just a recovery year IMO, similar story with Parsons but I guess both are rounding into form. Deron has been a surprisingly productive player and part of why they've been so clutch this year. Blake hasn't really been healthy for awhile from what I heard and CP3 entered the season nursing injuries but yes, we were definitely underachieving, much of it due to growing pains + injuries.

If Parsons+Wesley regain their prior forms, then they will be a legitimately scary first round opponent considering Rick Carlisle coaching history. I can see Zaza having a banner year this late in his career, Dirk has that effect on alot of frontcourt teammates, I just cant see Zaza staying healthy all year. I think they finish beneath the Rockets in the standings/efficiency scale and among all the potential playoff teams, I would love them vs any other so far.

But isn't the term "consistent overachiever" contradicting the definition of "fluke"?

"The Golden State Warriors wins are a fluke this season." Mmm... They have proven through their consistent dominance that they are that damn good.

Also, someone who "consistently overachieves" is more likely to be underrated than someone with a higher projection who under-performs, no?

Chronz
01-08-2016, 02:38 AM
But isn't the term "consistent overachiever" contradicting the definition of "fluke"?

"The Golden State Warriors wins are a fluke this season." Mmm... They have proven through their consistent dominance that they are that damn good.

Also, someone who "consistently overachieves" is more likely to be underrated than someone with a higher projection who under-performs, no?

It is. I think this is the year they fall down to earth, I've seen it happen to lots of cores as they age, it doesn't appear to be happening yet tho.

I dont get your GSW comparison because they dominate games entirely.

Consistent overachievers are more overrated IMO, they have a lower ceiling come playoffs. But that really depends on individual perspective, any team, even the best in the league, can be overrated.

JAZZNC
01-08-2016, 03:08 AM
Utah Jazz.

Would be the 8 seed right now and seriously who the hell are we even playing right now besides Hayward? There has been a TON of time missed by starters and still in the playoff hunt. I know I'm being a homer, but I think that what the Jazz are doing is something worth talking about.

Redrum187
01-08-2016, 03:24 AM
It is. I think this is the year they fall down to earth, I've seen it happen to lots of cores as they age, it doesn't appear to be happening yet tho.

I dont get your GSW comparison because they dominate games entirely.

Consistent overachievers are more overrated IMO, they have a lower ceiling come playoffs. But that really depends on individual perspective, any team, even the best in the league, can be overrated.

You definitely have a point with the bold statement. However, the Dallas Mavericks are not part of those "consistent overachievers" in that no one overrates them (at least not on PSD). We can go to the thread in the offseason predicting playoff seeds. The Mavericks were consistently left off. I remember Boston fans were excited at the prospect of getting Dallas' 1st round pick (potential lottery pick) for Rajon Rondo.

As for the GSW statement, I was using your argument than their hot win streak could be attributed to "consistent overachieving". I was trying to show that when people or teams do something for a significant amount of time, it isn't a fluke, it's a direct measurement of their skill/ability.

ewing
01-08-2016, 06:57 PM
Utah Jazz.

Would be the 8 seed right now and seriously who the hell are we even playing right now besides Hayward? There has been a TON of time missed by starters and still in the playoff hunt. I know I'm being a homer, but I think that what the Jazz are doing is something worth talking about.

its jeff withey

kdspurman
01-08-2016, 07:26 PM
Utah Jazz.

Would be the 8 seed right now and seriously who the hell are we even playing right now besides Hayward? There has been a TON of time missed by starters and still in the playoff hunt. I know I'm being a homer, but I think that what the Jazz are doing is something worth talking about.

Yea, that's a good one too. Hopefully you guys get everyone back soon, I think I saw Gobert was at least travelling with the team.

I think they can make the playoffs for sure.

ewing
01-08-2016, 10:12 PM
Yea, that's a good one too. Hopefully you guys get everyone back soon, I think I saw Gobert was at least travelling with the team.

I think they can make the playoffs for sure.

Gobert is the most interesting player in the league to be right now. I have seen so little of him and he seemed to have such a huge impact last year

Chronz
01-09-2016, 06:55 AM
You definitely have a point with the bold statement. However, the Dallas Mavericks are not part of those "consistent overachievers" in that no one overrates them (at least not on PSD). We can go to the thread in the offseason predicting playoff seeds. The Mavericks were consistently left off. I remember Boston fans were excited at the prospect of getting Dallas' 1st round pick (potential lottery pick) for Rajon Rondo.

As for the GSW statement, I was using your argument than their hot win streak could be attributed to "consistent overachieving". I was trying to show that when people or teams do something for a significant amount of time, it isn't a fluke, it's a direct measurement of their skill/ability.
Its games like today that Im talking about, you can be a clutch team, but when so many games go down to the wire, there will be alot of luck determining your win/loss record, whereas what GS is doing is blowing teams out, thats FAR more skill/talent based than squeezing out victories, so I dont like your comparison. What Im holding against Dallas (their win-loss record being far out of line for their efficiency levels and flukish wins) is something I cant really hold against the Dubs.



Overratedness depends on perspective so what Im trying to get across is that they can overachieve in the regular season, but that gets harder to do in the playoffs. And I guess the guys who believed in Dallas the most were always the Dallas fans

Redrum187
01-09-2016, 04:59 PM
Its games like today that Im talking about, you can be a clutch team, but when so many games go down to the wire, there will be alot of luck determining your win/loss record, whereas what GS is doing is blowing teams out, thats FAR more skill/talent based than squeezing out victories, so I dont like your comparison. What Im holding against Dallas (their win-loss record being far out of line for their efficiency levels and flukish wins) is something I cant really hold against the Dubs.



Overratedness depends on perspective so what Im trying to get across is that they can overachieve in the regular season, but that gets harder to do in the playoffs. And I guess the guys who believed in Dallas the most were always the Dallas fans

I get what you're saying. I also agree it's the Dallas fans that tend to believe the most in Dallas. The same is true about Clippers fan believing the most in the Clippers, New York fans believing the most about the Knicks, etc...

Having said that, you said the Clippers have been the most underrated team. On what merits are they the most underrated by your standards out of curiosity?

Sanjay
01-11-2016, 07:11 PM
I think the Knicks are the most underrated team in the league. Going into this season, people were saying they will be better with the additions of Afflalo and R. Lopez, but I was confident they would make the playoffs. They have played above expectation and are currently only 1.5 games out of the 8th seed in the East.

Redrum187
01-11-2016, 07:22 PM
I think the Knicks are the most underrated team in the league. Going into this season, people were saying they will be better with the additions of Afflalo and R. Lopez, but I was confident they would make the playoffs. They have played above expectation and are currently only 1.5 games out of the 8th seed in the East.

I totally expected them to make the playoffs. I hope they do even more now. I want KP to develop and see what he's capable of.

JasonJohnHorn
01-11-2016, 09:33 PM
LAC and the Mavs.


LAC can beat any team in a 7-game series, though a few have an edge and would likely win the series. Still.... LAC could beat anybody, and given that so many are complaining about how bad they are, thye seem the obvious answer.

Alternately, nobody seems to be talking about the Mavs, and they've been winning consistently.

Washington as well. When they get Beal back they will be in the hunt in the East. Not the best, but very competitive.

KnicksorBust
01-11-2016, 09:40 PM
LAC and the Mavs.


LAC can beat any team in a 7-game series, though a few have an edge and would likely win the series. Still.... LAC could beat anybody, and given that so many are complaining about how bad they are, thye seem the obvious answer.

Alternately, nobody seems to be talking about the Mavs, and they've been winning consistently.

Washington as well. When they get Beal back they will be in the hunt in the East. Not the best, but very competitive.

Honestly where do you believe the Clippers should be ranked? People have them top 5. Unless you think they are better than GSW, SAS, or CLE, then they are appropriately ranked.