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More-Than-Most
01-04-2016, 09:27 PM
http://www.prosportsdaily.com/articles/andre-iguodala-i-dont-want-my-daughter-playing-basketball-and-becoming-a-lesbian-389367.html


:laugh:

Redrum187
01-04-2016, 09:33 PM
He is an ignorant piece of crap if he thinks there is a correlation between playing basketball and becoming a lesbian. I have to ask the same question as I asked in the Kobe "light-skinned" thread: Do PC guys care if AI said this or does he get a pass because he's Black?

tredigs
01-04-2016, 09:34 PM
Lol... well at least says bitter ex-girlfriend who is trying to extort 40K a month more out of him. Gotta be mindful of how you use quotes. It's potential for libel depending on the setting and who cares.

jerellh528
01-04-2016, 09:38 PM
Lol I have noticed the correlation

Redrum187
01-04-2016, 09:49 PM
Lol I have noticed the correlation

Is the correlation "Lesbians tend to like playing basketball at a higher frequency than heterosexual women" or "playing basketball increases the likelihood of becoming a lesbian"? They might sound similar, but there is a clear distinction.

Scoots
01-04-2016, 10:36 PM
If a person had no preference then surrounding them with people who have a specific preference tends to lead the person without a preference to adopt the preference of the group.

It applies to everything.

Iguodala may be misguided or it may be out of context ... Iguodala is not the easiest guy to get to open up ... I hope it's not what he thinks.

SMH!
01-04-2016, 10:38 PM
well wnba is 99.9 percent lesbians

Scoots
01-04-2016, 10:38 PM
By the way my daughter was reading harry potter books at 5... Can i get MORE that $58k a month?

RLundi
01-04-2016, 10:44 PM
well wnba is 99.9 percent lesbians

:laugh2:

I have no idea why but this made me laugh.

mrblisterdundee
01-04-2016, 10:53 PM
Andre Iguodala is a Bible Thumper, so his comments don't really surprise me. But seriously; how often do you expect an insightful statement when a microphone is put in front of a professional athlete?

sep11ie
01-04-2016, 10:54 PM
I don't blame him.

sep11ie
01-04-2016, 10:55 PM
Although, if she has a jaw line like him at least she would be the bull.

lamzoka
01-04-2016, 11:05 PM
$58K a month. Gotta stop getting these Thots pregnant.

MasterWok
01-04-2016, 11:18 PM
Basketball players : offended because theyre not a lesbian

Lesbians : Offended because they don't play basketball

Captain Moroni
01-04-2016, 11:32 PM
Why can't the man state his opinion?
I don't want my kids going to college to be a gym teacher.....35k a year will ruin them.
It's there a correlation between women's pro and college sports and lesbianism? Absolutely there is, to deny that is laughable. My niece played college softball. Half the team was lesbian, and of those, only one felt they were born that way. It was a ritual on the team. To think the chances of becoming a lesbian is not higher in these college and pro teams is denying the facts.
Now if him slamming the lesbian lifestyle is what offends you. ....you have an argument. But the facts uphold his statements.

TrueFan420
01-04-2016, 11:36 PM
Andre Iguodala is a Bible Thumper, so his comments don't really surprise me. But seriously; how often do you expect an insightful statement when a microphone is put in front of a professional athlete?

He didn't say it to a microphone. This is alleged by ex who wants Iguodala to pay $58k a month in child support ... up from 16k a month.

More-Than-Most
01-04-2016, 11:45 PM
He didn't say it to a microphone. This is alleged by ex who wants Iguodala to pay $58k a month in child support ... up from 16k a month.

Well to be fair its kinda hard to feed the family on 16k a month. Why the **** couldnt I have been born a hot female.. Id have babies with all super basketball stars.

SportsFanatic10
01-05-2016, 12:03 AM
hahaha can't lie that **** is pretty funny. Obviously he shouldn't of said that though.

statquo
01-05-2016, 12:07 AM
Lmfao

TrueFan420
01-05-2016, 12:09 AM
Well to be fair its kinda hard to feed the family on 16k a month. Why the **** couldnt I have been born a hot female.. Id have babies with all super basketball stars.

Haha right

Shady66
01-05-2016, 12:24 AM
The title alone made me lol

JasonJohnHorn
01-05-2016, 12:35 AM
Before we starting judging Iggy on this, I think it is important to note there is not audio recording of him saying this. This is what somebody looking for child support payments said he said.

krazylegz
01-05-2016, 12:42 AM
this thread is stupid and false....you have it in quotations that andre said this.....his bitter ex girlfriend said this....STUPID EX GIRLFRIENDS SAY ALOT OF THINGS

krazylegz
01-05-2016, 12:45 AM
hahaha can't lie that **** is pretty funny. Obviously he shouldn't of said that though.

he didnt say that,hes crazy ex did...tmz just has an awful time for some reason putting the right header up for a story...tmz journalist are no different then bloggers, and is everything that is wrong with how the internet and social media works...and then to boot,prosportsdaily puts quotations around what was said like homeboy was the one who said it.......its almost comical

SportsFanatic10
01-05-2016, 12:57 AM
he didnt say that,hes crazy ex did...tmz just has an awful time for some reason putting the right header up for a story...tmz journalist are no different then bloggers, and is everything that is wrong with how the internet and social media works...and then to boot,prosportsdaily puts quotations around what was said like homeboy was the one who said it.......its almost comical

You're right...I should have bothered to read the article, but with the thread title having it in quotations I was fooled lol.

jerellh528
01-05-2016, 01:37 AM
Is the correlation "Lesbians tend to like playing basketball at a higher frequency than heterosexual women" or "playing basketball increases the likelihood of becoming a lesbian"? They might sound similar, but there is a clear distinction.

A bit of both probably to be honest. My woman is a former college basketball player and had a girlfriend on the team for a few years, but since quitting the game of basketball, she's a stern heterosexual. Perhaps just being around other girls all the time increases it? Or maybe the few girls on the team that are actually lesbians start coercing the other girls to experiment with lesbian stuff. I dunno, but there's definatley some correlation. Same exact thing happened to her sister too, lesbian during her basketball years, then stern heterosexual after she quit balling. So weird lol

meloman1592
01-05-2016, 02:19 AM
Although, if she has a jaw line like him at least she would be the bull.

Only jokes tonight on psd lmfaoooooooo

G_S_W
01-05-2016, 02:49 AM
I love this game of basketball.

However, the game's best players are rarely remarkable minds.

Witness Jimmy Butler. This moron actually removed the rear view mirror from his car. Not only is this illegal, but it is very obviously unsafe. Yeah, it makes sense "not to look back." But it doesn't mean you remove your rear view mirror.

Iggy, Dray and Klay are saying some really stupid things as of late. Just play and win a championship and STFU.

sixer04fan
01-05-2016, 03:04 AM
Is the correlation "Lesbians tend to like playing basketball at a higher frequency than heterosexual women" or "playing basketball increases the likelihood of becoming a lesbian"? They might sound similar, but there is a clear distinction.

Think you need to look up the difference between correlation and causation lol.

But seriously, Andre shouldn't have said that haha

Gander13SM
01-05-2016, 03:49 AM
So a jealous wife tells people he said that and we're all supposed to take it as gospel? Good job TMZ. Smh.

He's an intelligent man. I highly doubt this is true. But who knows.

Gander13SM
01-05-2016, 03:52 AM
A bit of both probably to be honest. My woman is a former college basketball player and had a girlfriend on the team for a few years, but since quitting the game of basketball, she's a stern heterosexual. Perhaps just being around other girls all the time increases it? Or maybe the few girls on the team that are actually lesbians start coercing the other girls to experiment with lesbian stuff. I dunno, but there's definatley some correlation. Same exact thing happened to her sister too, lesbian during her basketball years, then stern heterosexual after she quit balling. So weird lol

Sorry bro, you don't choose between your sexuality.

And it isn't basketball that's the thing in common. It's college. Everyone knows college is for experimenting like that. Always has been.

Either that or she's bisexual. But you don't choose to be gay and then choose to be straight. Doesn't work like that.

jerellh528
01-05-2016, 04:37 AM
Sorry bro, you don't choose between your sexuality.

And it isn't basketball that's the thing in common. It's college. Everyone knows college is for experimenting like that. Always has been.

Either that or she's bisexual. But you don't choose to be gay and then choose to be straight. Doesn't work like that.

Yeah well, I do agree that you're born with your sexuality. But this was only college for my girl, for her sister and my cousin, it was high school. anyways, it probably was more of an experimentation thing, but funny that if a guy sucks a dick, he's a homo, if a girl does it, she's experimenting lol.
She told me it was almost like a peer pressure thing, which I can believe because a lot of those girls can be aggressive and frankly, by the stories she's told me, I'd never want my daughter to play basketball either. It's basically sexual harassment and borderline assault daily from a lot of the team lesbians, it's like they take straight girls and almost "force" them to do stuff, all while putting on a smile and pretending to be friends.
I don't want to sound insensitive or whatever, but the whole female basketball lifestyle just doesn't sound appealing from what I've heard and I fault iggy 0% for not wanting his daughter to play basketball. He's been around the game his whole life, probably knows the inner workings of the female side of the sport too, they often intermingle.

Gander13SM
01-05-2016, 04:49 AM
Yeah well, I do agree that you're born with your sexuality. But this was only college for my girl, for her sister and my cousin, it was high school. anyways, it probably was more of an experimentation thing, but funny that if a guy sucks a dick, he's a homo, if a girl does it, she's experimenting lol.
She told me it was almost like a peer pressure thing, which I can believe because a lot of those girls can be aggressive and frankly, by the stories she's told me, I'd never want my daughter to play basketball either. It's basically sexual harassment and borderline assault daily from a lot of the team lesbians, it's like they take straight girls and almost "force" them to do stuff, all while putting on a smile and pretending to be friends.
I don't want to sound insensitive or whatever, but the whole female basketball lifestyle just doesn't sound appealing from what I've heard and I fault iggy 0% for not wanting his daughter to play basketball. He's been around the game his whole life, probably knows the inner workings of the female side of the sport too, they often intermingle.

Must be an American thing. I know about 7 or 8 women who played ball growing up in Europe and none of them have mentioned anything like this, and it's not like they're candid about it, they've always got crazy stories. I've trained with and played against female teams, all of whom were straight aside from one girl.

Sorry to hear your wife and her family went through so much "borderline assault". Must have been awful for them.

But I honestly think it's a very small amount, I think your story is the exception to the rule really. I don't think it's as common as people think.

Guess we'll never know.

Redrum187
01-05-2016, 05:20 AM
Think you need to look up the difference between correlation and causation lol.

But seriously, Andre shouldn't have said that haha

That was my point actually. There is no "correlation" and basketball is not the cause for lesbians becoming lesbians. The two aren't interchangeable.

Nevertheless, I think it's hilarious but I think IF he really said it, he'll get a pass.

MonroeFAN
01-05-2016, 05:22 AM
Odd that a black male would deny equality and acceptance of someone.

Guess black lesbian lives don't matter eh?

As for iggy, heck of a player. But is nearing #1 in on court complaint time and was a lot more enjoyable when he talked less.

Redrum187
01-05-2016, 05:31 AM
Odd that a black male would deny equality and acceptance of someone.

Guess black lesbians don't matter eh?

This is why no one takes that argument seriously, just in case anyone was wondering.

As for iggy, heck of a player. But is nearing #1 in on court complaint time and was a lot more enjoyable when he talked less.

#BlackLesbianLivesMatter

Munkeysuit
01-05-2016, 06:11 AM
Lmeow

ewing
01-05-2016, 10:24 AM
A bit of both probably to be honest. My woman is a former college basketball player and had a girlfriend on the team for a few years, but since quitting the game of basketball, she's a stern heterosexual. Perhaps just being around other girls all the time increases it? Or maybe the few girls on the team that are actually lesbians start coercing the other girls to experiment with lesbian stuff. I dunno, but there's definatley some correlation. Same exact thing happened to her sister too, lesbian during her basketball years, then stern heterosexual after she quit balling. So weird lol

Does that mean she plays the butch role with you in bed?

Captain Moroni
01-05-2016, 10:34 AM
Sorry bro, you don't choose between your sexuality.

And it isn't basketball that's the thing in common. It's college. Everyone knows college is for experimenting like that. Always has been.

Either that or she's bisexual. But you don't choose to be gay and then choose to be straight. Doesn't work like that.

This is the most ridiculous statement ever. So you are telling me that Every single human being who is Gay was born that way? I'm not suggesting that people are not born gay, that's a whole different argument.
So if the general population of Men is 1% gay, but the population of sexually abused young boys is 30% Gay were they born to be abused? Because it would be impossible for only abused as children gay men to be born that way. Your suggesting that No one can "become" gay. That is laughable.
A girl who is attracted to boys her whole life and is introduced to lesbian sex on a college basketball team can absolutely "become" gay. That is the whole point of iggy's alleged statement.
Was every single girl who became gay after experiencing lesbianism in college actually "born" that way? Maybe we are then all born gay, just haven't experienced it yet.
The idea that people can't "become" gay without being born Gay is 100% silly

Gander13SM
01-05-2016, 10:41 AM
So you are telling me that Every single human being who is Gay was born that way?


Yes. Because that's how it works.

You don't "become" gay. And nobody was born to be abused. Are you smoking crack? Abuse is abuse it doesnt matter what your sexuality is.

Nobody chooses to be gay. It's nature not nurture.

If a girl is attracted to boys but also open to participating in Lesbian sex she is bisexual. She is attracted to both and always will be. Nothing will change that.

Scoots
01-05-2016, 10:50 AM
Andre Iguodala is a Bible Thumper, so his comments don't really surprise me. But seriously; how often do you expect an insightful statement when a microphone is put in front of a professional athlete?

But there was no microphone ... it was hearsay ... maybe ... and it was TMZ.

Scoots
01-05-2016, 10:54 AM
I love this game of basketball.

However, the game's best players are rarely remarkable minds.

Witness Jimmy Butler. This moron actually removed the rear view mirror from his car. Not only is this illegal, but it is very obviously unsafe. Yeah, it makes sense "not to look back." But it doesn't mean you remove your rear view mirror.

Iggy, Dray and Klay are saying some really stupid things as of late. Just play and win a championship and STFU.

It's not illegal to remove the rear-view mirror inside the car. It's not required by any state. For most states the only required mirror is the drivers side mirror.

Tony_Starks
01-05-2016, 10:56 AM
Lol I have noticed the correlation

A significant correlation at that!! Lol

Scoots
01-05-2016, 11:00 AM
Sorry bro, you don't choose between your sexuality.

And it isn't basketball that's the thing in common. It's college. Everyone knows college is for experimenting like that. Always has been.

Either that or she's bisexual. But you don't choose to be gay and then choose to be straight. Doesn't work like that.

You choose your actions. What you think is private. To paraphrase Forrest Gump ... Lesbian is as lesbian does. If you are female and your only sexual partners are female you are behaving as a lesbian, just as the same is true of any behavior.

beasted86
01-05-2016, 11:01 AM
He is an ignorant piece of crap if he thinks there is a correlation between playing basketball and becoming a lesbian. I have to ask the same question as I asked in the Kobe "light-skinned" thread: Do PC guys care if AI said this or does he get a pass because he's Black?

Yeah, let's forget about this coming out in a custody/child support battle and is alleged by his baby mama about a 6 year old girl.

Because there are a ton of girls basketball leagues for 1st grade girls, right?

2016 is the year I hope people start using common sense and not feed the machine that wants to systematically tarnish the reputation of black men in media and entertainment like my man Eddie Griffin said a few days ago.

Scoots
01-05-2016, 11:03 AM
Maybe we are then all born gay, just haven't experienced it yet.

My gay friends seem to think every man they like is gay they just don't know it yet :)

Tony_Starks
01-05-2016, 11:15 AM
So we are really going to give credence to what some bitter ex broad says these days? Correction: a bitter ex seeking a child support increase.

FOH

Captain Moroni
01-05-2016, 11:15 AM
Yes. Because that's how it works.

You don't "become" gay. And nobody was born to be abused. Are you smoking crack? Abuse is abuse it doesnt matter what your sexuality is.

Nobody chooses to be gay. It's nature not nurture.

If a girl is attracted to boys but also open to participating in Lesbian sex she is bisexual. She is attracted to both and always will be. Nothing will change that.

I'm not arguing the "nature" part. But if you honestly think that someone can't "become" gay......you are out of your mind

IndyRealist
01-05-2016, 11:18 AM
Why can't the man state his opinion?
I don't want my kids going to college to be a gym teacher.....35k a year will ruin them.
It's there a correlation between women's pro and college sports and lesbianism? Absolutely there is, to deny that is laughable. My niece played college softball. Half the team was lesbian, and of those, only one felt they were born that way. It was a ritual on the team. To think the chances of becoming a lesbian is not higher in these college and pro teams is denying the facts.
Now if him slamming the lesbian lifestyle is what offends you. ....you have an argument. But the facts uphold his statements.

That's correlation, not causation. You don't know if lesbians are simply attracted to playing sports while hetero girls are not, versus playing sports causing lesbianism.

Captain Moroni
01-05-2016, 11:29 AM
That's correlation, not causation. You don't know if lesbians are simply attracted to playing sports while hetero girls are not, versus playing sports causing lesbianism.

Thing is, I have a vantage point here. My niece loved baseball. Even played on a boys team I coached. There was nothing Gay about her. She was always attracted to boys. Then came college. She played college softball and became Gay. For two years she had a steady girlfriend. She completely had nothing to do with guys at all. She wasn't bouncing between men and women, it was all 100% lesbian. Something she was introduced to by college teammates.
Now 4 years later, she is 100% straight. There are 6 other girls that she played with that have the same story. Don't tell me there is no correlation. If Iggy did indeed make that statement, whether we like it or not, he actually has a valid point.

Captain Moroni
01-05-2016, 11:36 AM
That's correlation, not causation. You don't know if lesbians are simply attracted to playing sports while hetero girls are not, versus playing sports causing lesbianism.

And nowhere did I say playing sports causes lesbianism. But the culture of women's college sports....different story altogether. Did you know that how a softball player wears her hair (ribbon, ponytail up or down or sideways) lets other girls know she is Gay? Crazy but true.

colinskik
01-05-2016, 12:22 PM
This is the most ridiculous statement ever. So you are telling me that Every single human being who is Gay was born that way? I'm not suggesting that people are not born gay, that's a whole different argument.
So if the general population of Men is 1% gay, but the population of sexually abused young boys is 30% Gay were they born to be abused? Because it would be impossible for only abused as children gay men to be born that way. Your suggesting that No one can "become" gay. That is laughable.
A girl who is attracted to boys her whole life and is introduced to lesbian sex on a college basketball team can absolutely "become" gay. That is the whole point of iggy's alleged statement.
Was every single girl who became gay after experiencing lesbianism in college actually "born" that way? Maybe we are then all born gay, just haven't experienced it yet.
The idea that people can't "become" gay without being born Gay is 100% silly

Hey Captain Moron — you just embarrassed yourself with this post, but you'll probably never know it.

CarolinaCDM
01-05-2016, 12:28 PM
I feel him

colinskik
01-05-2016, 12:28 PM
Thing is, I have a vantage point here. My niece loved baseball. Even played on a boys team I coached. There was nothing Gay about her. She was always attracted to boys. Then came college. She played college softball and became Gay. For two years she had a steady girlfriend. She completely had nothing to do with guys at all. She wasn't bouncing between men and women, it was all 100% lesbian. Something she was introduced to by college teammates.
Now 4 years later, she is 100% straight. There are 6 other girls that she played with that have the same story. Don't tell me there is no correlation. If Iggy did indeed make that statement, whether we like it or not, he actually has a valid point.

Newsflash bro — she's not 100% straight if she's been in homosexual relationships.

A number of factors are in play with your niece:
- She could be bisexual
- She could be denying her true sexual desires
- She could be conforming to the societal norm of heterosexual relations, either consciously or subconsciously.

If she spends time around females and begins engaging in sexual behavior with them, that's because she is acting on those feelings. Not because softball influenced her to be gay.

I don't know you or your sexual preference, but if you were around only guys for an extended period of time—say you served in the armed forces—would you start banging them?

cmellofan15
01-05-2016, 12:41 PM
I love this game of basketball.

However, the game's best players are rarely remarkable minds.

Witness Jimmy Butler. This moron actually removed the rear view mirror from his car. Not only is this illegal, but it is very obviously unsafe. Yeah, it makes sense "not to look back." But it doesn't mean you remove your rear view mirror.

Iggy, Dray and Klay are saying some really stupid things as of late. Just play and win a championship and STFU.

LMAO you're definitely the moron when Jimmy Butler knows more about traffic laws than you do. it's perfectly legal to remove your rear view mirror or to drive without one.

Gander13SM
01-05-2016, 02:31 PM
Thing is, I have a vantage point here. My niece loved baseball. Even played on a boys team I coached. There was nothing Gay about her. She was always attracted to boys. Then came college. She played college softball and became Gay. For two years she had a steady girlfriend. She completely had nothing to do with guys at all. She wasn't bouncing between men and women, it was all 100% lesbian. Something she was introduced to by college teammates.
Now 4 years later, she is 100% straight. There are 6 other girls that she played with that have the same story. Don't tell me there is no correlation. If Iggy did indeed make that statement, whether we like it or not, he actually has a valid point.

Your niece and her friends are either bisexual or lesbians pretending to be straight.

Sorry. But you don't "become" gay. You either are or you aren't. And you can't choose not to be gay.

If anyone at any point is ever attracted to the opposite sex they are at least bi curious.

The fact you have some personal matters going on here makes it more obvious as to why you're convinced you can become gay and then become straight again. You're just hoping that's the case.

Sorry. Your niece is Bi. At the minimum.


P.S being Bi doesn't mean you "bounce between" men and women. A good friend of mine is bisexual and he had two reasonably long relationships with women and then began a relationship with a man, now he's with a women again. (2007-2009 with one women, 2009-10 with another women, 2011-2014 with a guy then the last six months with a women).

It's not like bisexual people just walk around whoring themselves out.

You need to get a grip. You're being very ignorant of the matter.

IndyRealist
01-05-2016, 02:50 PM
And nowhere did I say playing sports causes lesbianism. But the culture of women's college sports....different story altogether. Did you know that how a softball player wears her hair (ribbon, ponytail up or down or sideways) lets other girls know she is Gay? Crazy but true.
This WHOLE thread is about playing sports being a direct cause of lesbianism.

IndyRealist
01-05-2016, 02:52 PM
Thing is, I have a vantage point here. My niece loved baseball. Even played on a boys team I coached. There was nothing Gay about her. She was always attracted to boys. Then came college. She played college softball and became Gay. For two years she had a steady girlfriend. She completely had nothing to do with guys at all. She wasn't bouncing between men and women, it was all 100% lesbian. Something she was introduced to by college teammates.
Now 4 years later, she is 100% straight. There are 6 other girls that she played with that have the same story. Don't tell me there is no correlation. If Iggy did indeed make that statement, whether we like it or not, he actually has a valid point.

....I didn't tell you there was no correlation. I said there was a correlation. I said it is not provable causation.

Captain Moroni
01-05-2016, 02:56 PM
Hey Captain Moron — you just embarrassed yourself with this post, but you'll probably never know it.

Why don't you enlighten me.

Captain Moroni
01-05-2016, 02:57 PM
This WHOLE thread is about playing sports being a direct cause of lesbianism.

Actually, if true and we still don't know if Iggy even said it, the reference was about the culture not the sport.

Captain Moroni
01-05-2016, 03:01 PM
Your niece and her friends are either bisexual or lesbians pretending to be straight.

Sorry. But you don't "become" gay. You either are or you aren't. And you can't choose not to be gay.

If anyone at any point is ever attracted to the opposite sex they are at least bi curious.

The fact you have some personal matters going on here makes it more obvious as to why you're convinced you can become gay and then become straight again. You're just hoping that's the case.

Sorry. Your niece is Bi. At the minimum.


P.S being Bi doesn't mean you "bounce between" men and women. A good friend of mine is bisexual and he had two reasonably long relationships with women and then began a relationship with a man, now he's with a women again. (2007-2009 with one women, 2009-10 with another women, 2011-2014 with a guy then the last six months with a women).

It's not like bisexual people just walk around whoring themselves out.

You need to get a grip. You're being very ignorant of the matter.

So, let me get this straight, No one in your eyes can "become" gay? Is that really your stance?
You are Born Gay or not, right? Let's cut the rhetoric and answer that question.
You are clearly stating that no one who was born heterosexual can become Gay correct?

Scoots
01-05-2016, 03:15 PM
being Bi doesn't mean you "bounce between" men and women. A good friend of mine is bisexual and he had two reasonably long relationships with women and then began a relationship with a man, now he's with a women again. (2007-2009 with one women, 2009-10 with another women, 2011-2014 with a guy then the last six months with a women).

It's not like bisexual people just walk around whoring themselves out.


That does sound like "bouncing between" to me :) The 2 bi people I know have ongoing relationships with people of different sexes at the same time ... not one then the other (though that happens too). A significant portion of the gay men I know would call themselves sluts, there is some definite whoring potential there ... I just assume it's because they are men not because they are gay.

Scoots
01-05-2016, 03:18 PM
So, let me get this straight, No one in your eyes can "become" gay? Is that really your stance?
You are Born Gay or not, right? Let's cut the rhetoric and answer that question.
You are clearly stating that no one who was born heterosexual can become Gay correct?

That is the preferred stance of the LGBT community. That it is NEVER choice.

If it's a choice then they could choose to not be and it means who they love might be "wrong". I don't care if it's choice, if it's a sub-conscious reaction to external stimuli, if it's genetic, or a result of bacteria. I love people for being the people they are and their sexual preference shouldn't matter either way unless they are interested in sex with me :)

Gander13SM
01-05-2016, 03:43 PM
So, let me get this straight, No one in your eyes can "become" gay? Is that really your stance?
You are Born Gay or not, right? Let's cut the rhetoric and answer that question.
You are clearly stating that no one who was born heterosexual can become Gay correct?

Correct.

You cannot "become" gay.

I'm not saying you know when you're 12 that you like the same sex. Hormones do crazy **** to people you might not realise until you're 18 or 20 or whatever, but you've always been gay.

I think it's ignorant to believe otherwise.

Gander13SM
01-05-2016, 03:44 PM
And Scoots, "bouncing around" to me implies sleeping with different people of different sees every other week. Not going from one serious relationship with a female to later being in a serious relationship with a male.

Each to their own though.

G_S_W
01-05-2016, 03:51 PM
LMAO you're definitely the moron when Jimmy Butler knows more about traffic laws than you do. it's perfectly legal to remove your rear view mirror or to drive without one.

You're just as dumb as he is.

http://ecomodder.com/wiki/index.php/Mirror_Laws_by_State_(U.S.)#Illinois

KingPosey
01-05-2016, 04:07 PM
Is the correlation "Lesbians tend to like playing basketball at a higher frequency than heterosexual women" or "playing basketball increases the likelihood of becoming a lesbian"? They might sound similar, but there is a clear distinction.

ya sometimes sarcasm and being serious seem similar as well, but there is a clear distinction.

MonroeFAN
01-05-2016, 04:29 PM
being Bi doesn't mean you "bounce between" men and women. A good friend of mine is bisexual and he had two reasonably long relationships with women and then began a relationship with a man, now he's with a women again. (2007-2009 with one women, 2009-10 with another women, 2011-2014 with a guy then the last six months with a women).

It's not like bisexual people just walk around whoring themselves out.


That does sound like "bouncing between" to me :)

Quickly becoming one of my favorite contributors here.

Redrum187
01-05-2016, 04:37 PM
Yeah, let's forget about this coming out in a custody/child support battle and is alleged by his baby mama about a 6 year old girl.

Because there are a ton of girls basketball leagues for 1st grade girls, right?

2016 is the year I hope people start using common sense and not feed the machine that wants to systematically tarnish the reputation of black men in media and entertainment like my man Eddie Griffin said a few days ago.

Maybe you should reread my post. I said "if he said it" and "if he thinks [that]".

Redrum187
01-05-2016, 04:40 PM
That's correlation, not causation. You don't know if lesbians are simply attracted to playing sports while hetero girls are not, versus playing sports causing lesbianism.

Exactly! I said this earlier but I don't think people fully understand this. lol

Redrum187
01-05-2016, 04:42 PM
Thing is, I have a vantage point here. My niece loved baseball. Even played on a boys team I coached. There was nothing Gay about her. She was always attracted to boys. Then came college. She played college softball and became Gay. For two years she had a steady girlfriend. She completely had nothing to do with guys at all. She wasn't bouncing between men and women, it was all 100% lesbian. Something she was introduced to by college teammates.
Now 4 years later, she is 100% straight. There are 6 other girls that she played with that have the same story. Don't tell me there is no correlation. If Iggy did indeed make that statement, whether we like it or not, he actually has a valid point.

I'm curious, if you were offered 1 million dollars to play in an all male major theater production for a few years, do you think you would have an increased likelihood of becoming gay (assuming a noticeable portion of the cast were gay)?

If you say "yes", then okay, we can agree to disagree.

If you say, "No, because the men won't be as aggressive as the lesbian basketball women." Then it's not basketball that is what is making people lesbian, it's either peer pressure for experimentation or assault like another poster mentioned his girl and girl's sister experience. Either way, basketball has absolutely NOTHING to do with it.

ewing
01-05-2016, 04:46 PM
I'm curious, if you were offered 1 million dollars to play in an all male major theater production for a few years, do you think you would have an increased likelihood of becoming gay (assuming a noticeable portion of the cast were gay)?

of course you would those guys are beautiful

Redrum187
01-05-2016, 04:47 PM
of course you would those guys are beautiful

Bahahahahaha! :P

mrblisterdundee
01-05-2016, 04:50 PM
Why can't the man state his opinion?
I don't want my kids going to college to be a gym teacher.....35k a year will ruin them.
It's there a correlation between women's pro and college sports and lesbianism? Absolutely there is, to deny that is laughable. My niece played college softball. Half the team was lesbian, and of those, only one felt they were born that way. It was a ritual on the team. To think the chances of becoming a lesbian is not higher in these college and pro teams is denying the facts.
Now if him slamming the lesbian lifestyle is what offends you. ....you have an argument. But the facts uphold his statements.

I seriously doubt there's ever been a census pointing to the percentage of lesbians in professional sports, so there aren't really any facts — just anecdotal evidence. Thanks, though, for acknowledging that it's dubious for people to be gay-bashing.

ewing
01-05-2016, 04:54 PM
Bahahahahaha! :P


i'm serious. If i was surrounded by hot smooth effeminate rich gay men leading a life of lessiure (popping mollies), I'd break

cmellofan15
01-05-2016, 05:00 PM
You're just as dumb as he is.

http://ecomodder.com/wiki/index.php/Mirror_Laws_by_State_(U.S.)#Illinois

"Every motor vehicle, operated singly or when towing another vehicle, shall be equipped with a mirror so located as to reflect to the driver a view"

LMAO thanks for proving my point for me, bud. This means you have to have a drivers side mirror (no where does it mention you have to have one located on your windshield, the one he removed).

Also don't you think there would be some sort of backlash if he were to blatantly do something illegal to prove a point..actually, nvm..you don't seem to be in touch with reality (or reading) so disregard that question.

rpgmaster86
01-05-2016, 05:02 PM
I'm curious, if you were offered 1 million dollars to play in an all male major theater production for a few years, do you think you would have an increased likelihood of becoming gay (assuming a noticeable portion of the cast were gay)?

If you say "yes", then okay, we can agree to disagree.

If you say, "No, because the men won't be as aggressive as the lesbian basketball women." Then it's not basketball that is what is making people lesbian, it's either peer pressure for experimentation or assault like another poster mentioned his girl and girl's sister experience. Either way, basketball has absolutely NOTHING to do with it.

at what age though? I think that makes a difference

Redrum187
01-05-2016, 07:40 PM
at what age though? I think that makes a difference

Well, he claims his niece "became" gay in college. So college age.

Redrum187
01-05-2016, 07:45 PM
Question: Why are children adopted by homosexual parents just as likely (slightly less if you want to be technical) as the rest of the population to be heterosexual and not homosexual at an even greater ratio?

Because being gay isn't contagious. One has to have an underlying predisposition with affections of someone with the same sex to ever "become" gay. A heterosexual woman playing basketball cannot "become" gay by simply shooting hoops. A straight man playing on broadway in an all-male cast won't "become" gay just by being around them.

Daaaarryyl
01-05-2016, 07:52 PM
I'm not arguing the "nature" part. But if you honestly think that someone can't "become" gay......you are out of your mind

I'm a straight man and I do not fear anything can make me gay LOL.

Are you really afraid something can turn you gay?

I. DO. NOT. Not even close!

I am not afraid of anything turning me gay, just like I don't believe in fairy tales and such.



Now, as a rational person, do you find it more likely:


-That something can "turn you gay"


OR

-That people have used stories ("I'm straight now" "It was a phase" "It was the evil spirits" "I was saved" "I grew out of it") just to cover their past actions?


I think it's pretty obvious which is more likely.

kubernetes
01-05-2016, 08:12 PM
Why can't the man state his opinion?
I don't want my kids going to college to be a gym teacher.....35k a year will ruin them.
It's there a correlation between women's pro and college sports and lesbianism? Absolutely there is, to deny that is laughable. My niece played college softball. Half the team was lesbian, and of those, only one felt they were born that way. It was a ritual on the team.

Right, and I'll bet you none of them remained homosexual after graduation.

People can certainly get drawn into homosexual behaviors, say because of the social environment or other stressors (think prison or sailing ships), but those people normally revert once they're out of those situations.

I'd say about a third of my friends now are queer women. "Queer" because "lesbian" is a pretty specific term that applies to very few women. Men tend to be either/or-- the number of true bisexual men is vanishingly small-- but women are more likely to be on the continuum. None of them chose their sexuality--they're just attracted to what they're attracted to.

As for whether people in general can really choose to become gay, I dunno, do you think you can? I was pretty open-minded in college and thought, "Who knows, maybe I'm not straight." But when I tried to look at men in a sexual way, it just didn't happen. I'm straight and no one taught me that--I knew I liked girls from an early age. The gay men I know were confused as hell growing up--they were supposed to like girls and they just didn't. If sexual preference could be taught, those guys should have become straight.

tredigs
01-05-2016, 08:22 PM
Question: Why are children adopted by homosexual parents just as likely (slightly less if you want to be technical) as the rest of the population to be heterosexual and not homosexual at an even greater ratio?

Because being gay isn't contagious. One has to have an underlying predisposition with affections of someone with the same sex to ever "become" gay. A heterosexual woman playing basketball cannot "become" gay by simply shooting hoops. A straight man playing on broadway in an all-male cast won't "become" gay just by being around them.

Well, here's the thing. As many studies indicate, there is no hard line "gay" or "straight". You may have an inherent predisposition to being gay, or being straight, but all individuals simply fall somewhere on the scale, and the environment that a person surrounds themselves in will by and large be the ultimate qualifier of whether or not they act in a gay, straight or bisexual manner. Do you think the Ancient Greeks were any more inherently homosexual than modern Greeks? No. It was just the society that they lived in to remove the idea of gay/straight and in turn flip it to dominant/submissive, regardless of sex. Grown men with adolescent boys was their interpretation of that. Today we call that pedophilia and to me it's correctly regarded as abhorrent and a disgusting abuse of power, but they called it Tuesday.

All that to say, IF Igoudala did say this and feels the way he does (which, let me be very clear, there is exactly zero proof of and this thread title is ridiculous), there is in fact a reality to the idea behind her comments. We know that lesbianism is extremely common in female hoops, and having his daughter join a group where that is in fact the case, could get her thinking and/or acting on her feelings (again, let me be very clear, I think that stance is ridiculous and a person should be free to be with whichever gender they choose). Not to say that would have any impact at her age, but later on in life if she stuck with it, it's a reasonable take to assume that it would increase her chances at experimenting and/or sticking with being a gay woman.

Daaaarryyl
01-05-2016, 08:26 PM
As for whether people in general can really choose to become gay, I dunno, do you think you can? I was pretty open-minded in college and thought, "Who knows, maybe I'm not straight." But when I tried to look at men in a sexual way, it just didn't happen. I'm straight and no one taught me that--I knew I liked girls from an early age. The gay men I know were confused as hell growing up--they were supposed to like girls and they just didn't. If sexual preference could be taught, those guys should have become straight.

But you didn't play softball or basketball with them, because you, apparently, would be gay now.


We talk about what people thought 200 years ago and laugh.

200 years from now I believe this is one of the subjects that will be laughed at.

Right there with a tendency for a 1 language person to mock a 2 (or more) language person's "second" language.


Something I saw a lot of growing up, but has fallen off over the years, thankfully.

Captain Moroni
01-05-2016, 08:36 PM
Correct.

You cannot "become" gay.

I'm not saying you know when you're 12 that you like the same sex. Hormones do crazy **** to people you might not realise until you're 18 or 20 or whatever, but you've always been gay.

I think it's ignorant to believe otherwise.

Shocking and ridiculous that anyone can believe this. Goes against any logic.
So if a complete heterosexual male age 40, goes to prison for 5 years, has sex with his cellmate, leaves prison , goes home and divorces his wife, marries his cellmate and lives a faithful gay life for the next 40 years, IS HE GAY? Answer that question.

Captain Moroni
01-05-2016, 08:49 PM
I'm curious, if you were offered 1 million dollars to play in an all male major theater production for a few years, do you think you would have an increased likelihood of becoming gay (assuming a noticeable portion of the cast were gay)?

If you say "yes", then okay, we can agree to disagree.

If you say, "No, because the men won't be as aggressive as the lesbian basketball women." Then it's not basketball that is what is making people lesbian, it's either peer pressure for experimentation or assault like another poster mentioned his girl and girl's sister experience. Either way, basketball has absolutely NOTHING to do with it.

I agree 100%. I never even alluded to anything contrary to this. Basketball has nothing to do with this.

Captain Moroni
01-05-2016, 08:52 PM
I'm a straight man and I do not fear anything can make me gay LOL.

Are you really afraid something can turn you gay?

I. DO. NOT. Not even close!

I am not afraid of anything turning me gay, just like I don't believe in fairy tales and such.



Now, as a rational person, do you find it more likely:


-That something can "turn you gay"


OR

-That people have used stories ("I'm straight now" "It was a phase" "It was the evil spirits" "I was saved" "I grew out of it") just to cover their past actions?


I think it's pretty obvious which is more likely.

Not sure there is any point here.

Daaaarryyl
01-05-2016, 08:56 PM
Not sure there is any point here.


Are you really afraid something can turn you gay?

You, personally.

Daaaarryyl
01-05-2016, 09:14 PM
Captain Moroni

Do you fear watching a certain movie? Or having a conversation with "certain people"? Or listening to a particular song because you may turn gay?

Redrum187
01-05-2016, 09:18 PM
Well, here's the thing. As many studies indicate, there is no hard line "gay" or "straight". You may have an inherent predisposition to being gay, or being straight, but all individuals simply fall somewhere on the scale, and the environment that a person surrounds themselves in will by and large be the ultimate qualifier of whether or not they act in a gay, straight or bisexual manner. Do you think the Ancient Greeks were any more inherently homosexual than modern Greeks? No. It was just the society that they lived in to remove the idea of gay/straight and in turn flip it to dominant/submissive, regardless of sex. Grown men with adolescent boys was their interpretation of that. Today we call that pedophilia and to me it's correctly regarded as abhorrent and a disgusting abuse of power, but they called it Tuesday.

All that to say, IF Igoudala did say this and feels the way he does (which, let me be very clear, there is exactly zero proof of and this thread title is ridiculous), there is in fact a reality to the idea behind her comments. We know that lesbianism is extremely common in female hoops, and having his daughter join a group where that is in fact the case, could get her thinking and/or acting on her feelings (again, let me be very clear, I think that stance is ridiculous and a person should be free to be with whichever gender they choose). Not to say that would have any impact at her age, but later on in life if she stuck with it, it's a reasonable take to assume that it would increase her chances at experimenting and/or sticking with being a gay woman.

There is a fundamentalist difference between "I don't want my daughter playing basketball and becoming a lesbian" and "I don't want my daughter playing basketball because it would increase her chances of experimenting with a potential predisposition towards homosexuality."

The first sentence means he thinks basketball is the cause of homosexuality for women. The latter is something completely different. If it was the latter, then it would be a safe assumption that he'd rather his daughter deny/suppress her true sexual orientation in the event she was gay (with his clear disapproval of homosexuality).

IndyRealist
01-05-2016, 09:20 PM
Actually, if true and we still don't know if Iggy even said it, the reference was about the culture not the sport.
That makes zero sense. Basketball culture is not separate from basketball. No one is saying that playing basketball causes a physiological change to a person's DNA to make them like the same sex.

I swear in another context this quote would start with, "I'm not racist, but...."

Redrum187
01-05-2016, 09:24 PM
Do heterosexual men have an increased probability of "becoming" gay when they shower/change in the locker room with each other after a game? What about in the military? If anything, one can twist it to be more sexual in nature than shooting a hoop in a basket.

PowerHouse
01-05-2016, 09:43 PM
Shocking and ridiculous that anyone can believe this. Goes against any logic.
So if a complete heterosexual male age 40, goes to prison for 5 years, has sex with his cellmate, leaves prison , goes home and divorces his wife, marries his cellmate and lives a faithful gay life for the next 40 years, IS HE GAY? Answer that question.

After reading all of your posts here obviously your stance is that being gay is a choice.

So when exactly did you choose to be straight? You're telling us that the 10-20% of the worlds population who are gay are endowed with this magical ability to make that kind of choice for themselves while the other 80-90% of us are just stuck into a life of heterosexuality? That is the most hilarious ignorance I've seen in quite a while. But by all means, keep the posts coming lol.

Daaaarryyl
01-05-2016, 09:45 PM
Captain Moroni

Do you fear watching a certain movie? Or having a conversation with "certain people"? Or listening to a particular song because you may turn gay?


Captain Moroni, since I only come to this forum once in a while and don't have all night, I'll answer for you.

Or at least what I assume you would post in your response:


"No!! What are you kidding me!?!? I'm not afraid of ANYTHING turning me gay. That's ludicrous!!

I've known who I am since I was young and nothing could every sway what arouses me sexually.

You're a fool if you think anything could change my sexuality!! A fool!!!

numba1CHANGsta
01-05-2016, 09:52 PM
Just curious, whats the percentage of the women in the WNBA who are lesbian?

Redrum187
01-05-2016, 09:58 PM
For Captain Moroni (are you LDS btw?):

There is a movie that just came out called "The Danish Girl." It was a very well made movie with the actor playing a transgender female, which is based on a true story. The man was married and trying to have children with his wife. He and his wife were artists. One day a female model for his wife failed to show up and so his wife asked him if he would put on some panty hose or leggings (not sure the exact name for it). Later on, she has him press the dress against his chest so she could complete the portrait she was doing (as the model never showed up). Later, she started doing portraits of her husband wearing the clothing and changing the hair style up to create a female with an intense resemblance to her husband (she told people it was a female relative of her husbands). Eventually, the man felt like who he thought he was on the inside when he would model for his wife in female clothing to the point he wanted to permanently live life as a female. I'll stop at this point to not further spoil the movie for anyone.

The point is, it's not unheard of for MARRIED men to be married and have children, then come out and live a life that is consistent with what they have always felt. Society makes it difficult sometimes. Sometimes it takes an extraordinary circumstance for them to live their life like how they feel on the inside. Sometimes it's rape, perhaps it's prison like you used in a question earlier... but there is a point where people stop living the "fake" life they were living and start being true to how they feel.

A truly heterosexual man wouldn't leave prison and decide to divorce his wife and live life as a gay man. He always had homosexual desires, even if he didn't act on it; It took prison to get him to come out and live that life.

I don't mean to twist sexual orientation with sexual identification, but I feel my point applies to your question. A truly heterosexual man will not be influence even the tiniest bit by wearing a dress or wearing panty hose.

Daaaarryyl
01-05-2016, 10:03 PM
After reading all of your posts here obviously your stance is that being gay is a choice.

So when exactly did you choose to be straight? You're telling us that the 10-20% of the worlds population who are gay are endowed with this magical ability to make that kind of choice for themselves while the other 80-90% of us are just stuck into a life of heterosexuality? That is the most hilarious ignorance I've seen in quite a while. But by all means, keep the posts coming lol.

Let's be frank about this, not all of us are particularly sophisticated.

They believe what mom and pop said and what society told them.

I heard all that growing up and little by little from personal experiences, found out it was all ********, or at least a large portion of it.

Some did not.

Daaaarryyl
01-05-2016, 10:07 PM
[SPOILER TAG]
[/SPOILER TAG]
Just curious, whats the percentage of the women in the WNBA who are lesbian?

I have no idea, but I believe it is a pretty high percentage.

yfern328
01-05-2016, 10:33 PM
Human sexuality lies on a ****ing spectrum you guys. Stop trying to peg it as just gay, straight, or bi. There are people that might identify as one of those but might experiment during a phase in their lives because again, human sexuality lies on a ****ing spectrum. It isn't black or white.

Iggy doesn't want his daughter around lesbian, bi-sexual, or bi curious girls if his daughter's sexuality is piqued by other women. That's his choice. He probably shouldn't let his daughter go to high school, or college, or enter the work force because she might explore her sexuality there too. That's his ****ing opinion. But his opinion is based on correlation and not causation. Additionally you have to understand he's super religious. I get where he draws his opinion. I disagree with it. But he's entitled to his ****ing opinion.

tredigs
01-05-2016, 10:55 PM
There is a fundamentalist difference between "I don't want my daughter playing basketball and becoming a lesbian" and "I don't want my daughter playing basketball because it would increase her chances of experimenting with a potential predisposition towards homosexuality."

The first sentence means he thinks basketball is the cause of homosexuality for women. The latter is something completely different. If it was the latter, then it would be a safe assumption that he'd rather his daughter deny/suppress her true sexual orientation in the event she was gay (with his clear disapproval of homosexuality).

You need to stop taking this as an absolute of what Igoudala said ("with his clear disapproval of homosexuality"). We have no ****ing clue what he said, or even if this is in fact something the girlfriend said/thinks but thought it would make for a good extortion tactic if she flipped the script and said he was the one who took this stance. But regardless, I think it's naive to think that even if he did in fact say this, that he is saying that basketball for women = clear homosexual. He's a very smart person, and likely knows dozens and dozens of pro WNBA players (and knows many are in fact straight). I'd say it's far more likely that he would be implying my take on the matter, that it simply puts her into a group where lesbians do run rampant (and yes, obviously in that scenario it would mean that it would be something he would not want for her. Something very common for a large percentage of adult men concerning their children, specifically religious adults). That said, again, we have no ****ing clue what he said or if he said anything because this is something reported from TMZ and the words of an ex-gf seeking tens of thousands of money and attempting to publicly defame him in the process.

99% of you would make for absolutely pathetic investigative journalists, I'll leave it at that.

Redrum187
01-05-2016, 11:51 PM
You need to stop taking this as an absolute of what Igoudala said ("with his clear disapproval of homosexuality"). We have no ****ing clue what he said, or even if this is in fact something the girlfriend said/thinks but thought it would make for a good extortion tactic if she flipped the script and said he was the one who took this stance. But regardless, I think it's naive to think that even if he did in fact say this, that he is saying that basketball for women = clear homosexual. He's a very smart person, and likely knows dozens and dozens of pro WNBA players (and knows many are in fact straight). I'd say it's far more likely that he would be implying my take on the matter, that it simply puts her into a group where lesbians do run rampant (and yes, obviously in that scenario it would mean that it would be something he would not want for her. Something very common for a large percentage of adult men concerning their children, specifically religious adults). That said, again, we have no ****ing clue what he said or if he said anything because this is something reported from TMZ and the words of an ex-gf seeking tens of thousands of money and attempting to publicly defame him in the process.

99% of you would make for absolutely pathetic investigative journalists, I'll leave it at that.

Umm... this is all dependent on if he said it. Every post I've specified with the conditional if. Of course we don't know if he really said it, but we are speaking hypothetically (if) he said it. And assuming he did say it, is it not clear that he disapproves? I don't understand why you're hyper sensitive about it.

As for the other bolded part, um... no one (not even G S W to my knowledge) has said he thinks basketball for women = clear homosexual. Assuming (again), that he did in fact say this verbatim, then yes, it's CLEAR that he disapproves of homosexuality as he doesn't want his daughter to play basketball (causation). If one cannot understand this isn't a correlation, it's a causation statement, there is nothing further to discuss.

As for the third bold part where you make the implication AI meant it that he doesn't want his daughter subjected to rampant lesbians, he would have said that instead of "I don't want my daughter playing basketball and becoming a lesbian." How the hell can anyone misunderstand or twist what he allegedly said with "I don't want my daughter subjected to rampant lesbians"?? :laugh:

Lastly, copy and paste any poster (even if G S W did it) that says AI for sure said this. From what I've read, people are discussing the content with the assumption he really said it, not accusing him of saying this with absolute certainty.

Redrum187
01-06-2016, 12:00 AM
Also... there are several people (myself included) who aren't even discussing the content as if AI really did say it, but rather the actual opinion that was allegedly given by his ex wife (regardless of who said or believes it, we are discussing if there is any validity in the statement).

"99% of you have pathetic reading comprehension, I'll leave it at that."

5ass
01-06-2016, 12:02 AM
I like lesbians.

Captain Moroni
01-06-2016, 12:04 AM
Are you really afraid something can turn you gay?

You, personally.

What are you talking about?

Captain Moroni
01-06-2016, 12:05 AM
Captain Moroni

Do you fear watching a certain movie? Or having a conversation with "certain people"? Or listening to a particular song because you may turn gay?

Why would I?

Captain Moroni
01-06-2016, 12:07 AM
Captain Moroni, since I only come to this forum once in a while and don't have all night, I'll answer for you.

Or at least what I assume you would post in your response:


"No!! What are you kidding me!?!? I'm not afraid of ANYTHING turning me gay. That's ludicrous!!

I've known who I am since I was young and nothing could every sway what arouses me sexually.

You're a fool if you think anything could change my sexuality!! A fool!!!

A stupid question followed up by a stupid answer. Both by the same person. Amazing.

Captain Moroni
01-06-2016, 12:12 AM
For Captain Moroni (are you LDS btw?):

There is a movie that just came out called "The Danish Girl." It was a very well made movie with the actor playing a transgender female, which is based on a true story. The man was married and trying to have children with his wife. He and his wife were artists. One day a female model for his wife failed to show up and so his wife asked him if he would put on some panty hose or leggings (not sure the exact name for it). Later on, she has him press the dress against his chest so she could complete the portrait she was doing (as the model never showed up). Later, she started doing portraits of her husband wearing the clothing and changing the hair style up to create a female with an intense resemblance to her husband (she told people it was a female relative of her husbands). Eventually, the man felt like who he thought he was on the inside when he would model for his wife in female clothing to the point he wanted to permanently live life as a female. I'll stop at this point to not further spoil the movie for anyone.

The point is, it's not unheard of for MARRIED men to be married and have children, then come out and live a life that is consistent with what they have always felt. Society makes it difficult sometimes. Sometimes it takes an extraordinary circumstance for them to live their life like how they feel on the inside. Sometimes it's rape, perhaps it's prison like you used in a question earlier... but there is a point where people stop living the "fake" life they were living and start being true to how they feel.

A truly heterosexual man wouldn't leave prison and decide to divorce his wife and live life as a gay man. He always had homosexual desires, even if he didn't act on it; It took prison to get him to come out and live that life.

I don't mean to twist sexual orientation with sexual identification, but I feel my point applies to your question. A truly heterosexual man will not be influence even the tiniest bit by wearing a dress or wearing panty hose.

I get your point. To say that every single man or woman that was once straight and after a traumatic event becomes gay was born Gay is just so closed minded.

Captain Moroni
01-06-2016, 12:22 AM
After reading all of your posts here obviously your stance is that being gay is a choice.

So when exactly did you choose to be straight? You're telling us that the 10-20% of the worlds population who are gay are endowed with this magical ability to make that kind of choice for themselves while the other 80-90% of us are just stuck into a life of heterosexuality? That is the most hilarious ignorance I've seen in quite a while. But by all means, keep the posts coming lol.

I have not said one word about homosexuality being a choice. My argument is quite simple, people can Become Gay. If homosexuality is something a person is born with, who can possibly argue? If a man looks me in the eye and says I was born this way, he was born that way. If another man tells me he became gay. He became gay.

tredigs
01-06-2016, 12:26 AM
Lastly, copy and paste any poster (even if G S W did it) that says AI for sure said this. From what I've read, people are discussing the content with the assumption he really said it, not accusing him of saying this with absolute certainty.



Andre Iguodala is a Bible Thumper, so his comments don't really surprise me. But seriously; how often do you expect an insightful statement when a microphone is put in front of a professional athlete?


I don't blame him.


Why can't the man state his opinion?
I don't want my kids going to college to be a gym teacher.....35k a year will ruin them.
It's there a correlation between women's pro and college sports and lesbianism? Absolutely there is, to deny that is laughable. My niece played college softball. Half the team was lesbian, and of those, only one felt they were born that way. It was a ritual on the team. To think the chances of becoming a lesbian is not higher in these college and pro teams is denying the facts.
Now if him slamming the lesbian lifestyle is what offends you. ....you have an argument. But the facts uphold his statements.


hahaha can't lie that **** is pretty funny. Obviously he shouldn't of said that though.

Lmao OK dude, that's the first page. What thread are you reading? Every one of these posts - including the OP's post and thread title - are replying to this TMZ article and the angry Ex-GF's word as if Igoudala said this in his own words on national TV.

As for your other points, you're trying to argue hypothetical semantics and it's not worth my time. Suffice to say I made my point/take clear.

Redrum187
01-06-2016, 12:28 AM
I get your point. To say that every single man or woman that was once straight and after a traumatic event becomes gay was born Gay is just so closed minded.

You might be right that it's close-minded. I try to be open-minded. That is why I asked: would it be a possibility that if you worked in theater with an all-male cast that you'd "become" gay? I'm not trying to answer or speak for you, but if you say "yes", then you're consistent with your point of view and opinion. If you say "No, there is no possibility", then you'd be contradicting your own opinion.

tredigs
01-06-2016, 12:30 AM
Certainly we know there's no scenario where even if this topic was broached by the couple, that the money-hungry angry ex-gf would misconstrue his words to paint him in the most negative light possible.

Redrum187
01-06-2016, 12:32 AM
Lmao OK dude, that's the first page. What thread are you reading? Every one of these posts - including the OP's post and thread title - are replying to this TMZ article and the angry Ex-GF's word as if Igoudala said this in his own words on national TV.

As for your other points, you're trying to argue hypothetical semantics and it's not worth my time. Suffice to say I made my point/take clear.

Bleh... That isn't the same thing as accusing him of saying it! Many of those people admitted to only reading the title (which is incorrectly titled with quotes). One uses quotes when they are relaying something that someone said verbatim. People saying that only read the title (which some later admitted to).

I'm talking about the discussion of "can someone become gay or are they all born that way".

Nevertheless, if you go back to all my posts, I've never once accused him and always used "if he said this" or "if he thinks this". Then the conversation graduated (over the last several pages) about the discussion of born gay or born + becoming gay in adulthood.

You would be preaching to the wrong guy if anyone said "AI absolutely said this".

tredigs
01-06-2016, 12:34 AM
You might be right that it's close-minded. I try to be open-minded. That is why I asked: would it be a possibility that if you worked in theater with an all-male cast that you'd "become" gay? I'm not trying to answer or speak for you, but if you say "yes", then you're consistent with your point of view and opinion. If you say "No, there is no possibility", then you'd be contradicting your own opinion.

Far more acceptable/likely in today's American society for females to explore their sexuality with another woman than a guy who has only been with women to do the same with another man (in a similarly gay-filled environment ie female hoops and a drama theatre). You do inherently understand that, right? Refer to my point on Ancient Greeks compared to modern Greeks.

Redrum187
01-06-2016, 12:39 AM
Far more acceptable/likely in today's American society for females to explore their sexuality with another woman than a guy who has only been with women to do the same with another man (in a similarly gay-filled environment ie female hoops and a drama theatre). You do inherently understand that, right? Refer to my point on Ancient Greeks compared to modern Greeks.

I totally agree with you. Gay men are stigmatized to a much greater degree than women are in today's society, but this doesn't necessarily mean that homosexuality and/or curiosity exists in women more so than men. It's just simply more acceptable, as such, more prevalent with females than men (at least openly). I'm not proud of this, but even I get a bit disgusted when I see two men kissing... but when I see two women kissing it either does nothing to me (if they are unattractive) or has a positive reaction from me. While I see this hypocritical/double-standard within myself, I have no idea how to view it any other way.

ewing
01-06-2016, 12:43 AM
this thread is... well you know. I'm not allowed to say it but its ... aww **** it.

tredigs
01-06-2016, 12:46 AM
I totally agree with you. Gay men are stigmatized to a much greater degree than women are in today's society, but this doesn't necessarily mean that homosexuality and/or curiosity exists in women more so than men. It's just simply more acceptable, as such, more prevalent with females than men (at least openly). I'm not proud of this, but even I get a bit disgusted when I see two men kissing... but when I see two women kissing it either does nothing to me (if they are unattractive) or has a positive reaction from me.

No doubt, likewise, but I'm not so proud that I'm ignorant to the fact that this seemingly visceral reaction is more than very likely a result of being brainwashed by how our current culture views this act, and not so much the act itself. You can apply nearly the exact same concept to something like a common American's reaction to seeing a dog killed/eaten by a rural Korean family. What's "shocking" is a product of your upbringing/environment, for the most part. And the more diverse and traveled the culture/environment you live in is, the less shocking/disgusting the realities of the wild world we live in become.

Redrum187
01-06-2016, 12:46 AM
Certainly we know there's no scenario where even if this topic was broached by the couple, that the money-hungry angry ex-gf would misconstrue his words to paint him in the most negative light possible.

People shouldn't believe with absolute certainty that AI said this, but in the same breath, are you saying it's acceptable to believe his wife is a money hungry liar without knowing for sure if AI did/didn't say this?

Redrum187
01-06-2016, 12:48 AM
No doubt, likewise, but I'm not so proud that I'm ignorant to the fact that this seemingly visceral reaction is more than very likely a result of being brainwashed by how our current culture views this act, and not so much the act itself. You can apply nearly the exact same concept to something like a common American's reaction to seeing a dog killed/eaten by a rural Korean family. What's "shocking" is a product of your upbringing/environment, for the most part. And the more diverse and traveled the culture/environment you live in is, the less shocking/disgusting the realities of the wild world we live in become.

Agreed.

tredigs
01-06-2016, 12:50 AM
People shouldn't believe with absolute certainty that AI said this, but in the same breath, are you saying it's acceptable to believe his wife is a money hungry liar without knowing for sure if AI did/didn't say this?

No, I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is that if I have no concrete reason/proof to believe something is true, then I'm going to tread that line very carefully when making a judgement on one person's word. And, let's be honest, she has incentive to defame his character and we do in FACT know that she is going through the court to seek an exorbitant amount of money from the dude, and that the relationship between the two is in fact clearly not amicable.

Captain Moroni
01-06-2016, 12:50 AM
You might be right that it's close-minded. I try to be open-minded. That is why I asked: would it be a possibility that if you worked in theater with an all-male cast that you'd "become" gay? I'm not trying to answer or speak for you, but if you say "yes", then you're consistent with your point of view and opinion. If you say "No, there is no possibility", then you'd be contradicting your own opinion.

If I was sexually molested as a child, by a man then yes, it would be possible. If I experimented with homosexuality, yes, I could indeed become gay. Does that answer your question?

tredigs
01-06-2016, 12:53 AM
@Redrum I think we agree for the most part and I get where you're coming from. I'm going to bow out of this now because honestly I don't feel like fueling the TMZ thread any more than I have. Plus Warriors.

ewing
01-06-2016, 12:53 AM
Do heterosexual men have an increased probability of "becoming" gay when they shower/change in the locker room with each other after a game? What about in the military? If anything, one can twist it to be more sexual in nature than shooting a hoop in a basket.

what if they live with a bunch of dudes in jail? l :hide:

Redrum187
01-06-2016, 01:19 AM
If I was sexually molested as a child, by a man then yes, it would be possible. If I experimented with homosexuality, yes, I could indeed become gay. Does that answer your question?

Not really no. I need more clarity.

Lets assume you weren't molested and have never experimented with homosexuality. Do you (personally) feel it's a possibility for you to "become" gay working in the all-male theater?

Captain Moroni
01-06-2016, 02:19 AM
Not really no. I need more clarity.

Lets assume you weren't molested and have never experimented with homosexuality. Do you (personally) feel it's a possibility for you to "become" gay working in the all-male theater?

I need more info. Am I 18, confused and willing to experiment in a way that I never thought of before. Would the pressure for me to try something new be relentless and peer pressured in a way that I finally caved?
Yes, if Anyone experienced Gay sex including me there is definitely a chance they would like it and become Gay.
If what you are asking me is would I become Gay just by working with Gay men, no. I own my own business and have hired 100's of women and never fell in love with any of them. But if I experimented with them and was unfaithful to my wife, than yes I could fall in love.

Captain Moroni
01-06-2016, 02:22 AM
No one has yet answered this question...

If 1% of men are Gay, and 20% of boys molested by men are Gay.....we're all of those molested boys born gay? Or did they become gay?

Gander13SM
01-06-2016, 02:23 AM
If I was sexually molested as a child, by a man then yes, it would be possible. If I experimented with homosexuality, yes, I could indeed become gay. Does that answer your question?

Why would being sexually molested make you more likely to become gay? You can't be this stupid you just can't.

I've never encountered anyone so ignorant in my life.

Gander13SM
01-06-2016, 02:25 AM
No one has yet answered this question...

If 1% of men are Gay, and 20% of boys molested by men are Gay.....we're all of those molested boys born gay? Or did they become gay?

They were born gay.

Where are you getting these numbers from?

Redrum187
01-06-2016, 02:31 AM
No one has yet answered this question...

If 1% of men are Gay, and 20% of boys molested by men are Gay.....we're all of those molested boys born gay? Or did they become gay?

This is just what I believe (it's not fact):

Assuming 20% of molested boys identify as gay post-molestation, their homosexual predispositions/desires were triggered. If they didn't have any predispositions, then no matter how many times a boy was molested by a man (or men), he won't "become" gay.

I think it's possible to have predispositions without actually acting on them or experimenting with them for a multitude of reasons (society stigmatizing it is a huge one). A lot of people are in denial about it too. Supposedly the Holy Spirit and Jesus removes homosexual desires... so says born again Christians I use to go to Church with. :rolleyes:

Gander13SM
01-06-2016, 02:41 AM
I'm out. No more of this for me.

Captain Moroni
01-06-2016, 03:43 AM
They were born gay.

Where are you getting these numbers from?

Why would being sexually molested make you more likely to become gay? You can't be this stupid you just can't.

I've never encountered anyone so ignorant in my life.



No one is this stubborn to prove their point. Only the insecure have to rely on insulting others to feel superior.
Act like an adult when trying to talk with others.

Captain Moroni
01-06-2016, 03:47 AM
This is just what I believe (it's not fact):

Assuming 20% of molested boys identify as gay post-molestation, their homosexual predispositions/desires were triggered. If they didn't have any predispositions, then no matter how many times a boy was molested by a man (or men), he won't "become" gay.

I think it's possible to have predispositions without actually acting on them or experimenting with them for a multitude of reasons (society stigmatizing it is a huge one). A lot of people are in denial about it too. Supposedly the Holy Spirit and Jesus removes homosexual desires... so says born again Christians I use to go to Church with. :rolleyes:

So now 20-30% of all men are Gay, we are just dormant? Do you really believe this?

Redrum187
01-06-2016, 04:12 AM
I need more info. Am I 18, confused and willing to experiment in a way that I never thought of before. Would the pressure for me to try something new be relentless and peer pressured in a way that I finally caved?
Yes, if Anyone experienced Gay sex including me there is definitely a chance they would like it and become Gay.
If what you are asking me is would I become Gay just by working with Gay men, no. I own my own business and have hired 100's of women and never fell in love with any of them. But if I experimented with them and was unfaithful to my wife, than yes I could fall in love.

I don't know, you know you better than I know you. :P

I'm using the real you in this scenario (assuming you haven't been molested and/or experimenting with homosexuality).

So all the information you're asking, fill in the blanks with your personal life history and answer the question. Would you be capable of "becoming" gay working in an all-male cast theater production? Why or why not?

Redrum187
01-06-2016, 04:14 AM
So now 20-30% of all men are Gay, we are just dormant? Do you really believe this?

Sure, why not? I can't account for a percentage of them as I'm not even sure if the percentage is even accurate, however, a lot of men in the world choose to keep their homosexual desires/predispositions dormant. Some of them cease to keep it so for a variety of reasons, while others will die without anyone knowing it. Is it that unbelievable that someone would believe this?

I strongly encourage you to watch the movie, The Danish Girl. It's a perfect example of people keeping predispositions dormant.

Redrum187
01-06-2016, 04:39 AM
I think one of the underlying difference the two sides are having is this:

The people who think someone can "become" gay falsely assume "sexual behavior" and "sexual orientation" are synonymous and interchangeable.

A change in sexual behavior (a man goes to prison and engages in sex) is not the same thing as a change in sexual orientation.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/mar/04/ben-carson/ben-carson-many-prisoners-go-straight-come-out-gay/


"It’s possible that people go into prison unaware of their sexuality, and then once they are exposed to homosexual behavior as an inmate, they realize that they are gay or bisexual, Helen Eigenberg, who also studies prison sexuality as a professor at the University of Tennessee at Chattanooga, said in an interview with PolitiFact."

beasted86
01-06-2016, 08:23 AM
This thread is so.... I don't feel like getting banned.

Anyway, I always feel like there are a ton of people (both straight and gay) that "want there to really be more gay people" in the world. They are somewhat obsessed with it. Attempting to find facts and push truths upon the masses to show something. They are trying desperately to prove the normalcy of homosexuality. Reading a handful of posts in this thread there are quite a few of these people. I don't understand that agenda and never will. Is it to somehow lessen hatred? If that's the root effort, maybe I can get behind it. Is it because they want others to come out of the closet? Why do you in fact want others to come out of the closet? I don't get it. I don't understand why the personal choices that affect almost nobody other than each individual even matters or creates these long debates.

Also, I can't believe I read above that someone said a child who was molested simply had their inner underlying sexual interest triggered and that's why they are more likely to be gay/lesbian as an adult. I feel sad that there are loonies like this existing in society.

Redrum187
01-06-2016, 08:56 AM
This thread is so.... I don't feel like getting banned.

Anyway, I always feel like there are a ton of people (both straight and gay) that "want there to really be more gay people" in the world. They are somewhat obsessed with it. Attempting to find facts and push truths upon the masses to show something. They are trying desperately to prove the normalcy of homosexuality. Reading a handful of posts in this thread there are quite a few of these people. I don't understand that agenda and never will. Is it to somehow lessen hatred? If that's the root effort, maybe I can get behind it. Is it because they want others to come out of the closet? Why do you in fact want others to come out of the closet? I don't get it. I don't understand why the personal choices that affect almost nobody other than each individual even matters or creates these long debates.

Also, I can't believe I read above that someone said a child who was molested simply had their inner underlying sexual interest triggered and that's why they are more likely to be gay/lesbian as an adult. I feel sad that there are loonies like this existing in society.

I'm curious who said that? I'd disagree that they are "more likely to be gay" as a direct result of being molested. However I would agree with him/her that there are triggers for people that motivate them to live their lives how they feel on the inside. That isn't a new revelation.

Scoots
01-06-2016, 11:51 AM
First about me as a background for this discussion: I'm straight, am very comfortable with my orientation and everybody elses choices. I have marched in two pride parades with very good friends. I lived for years with a man (roommate) who's mother was a leading member of the Dykes on Bikes group so many have seen in the parade back in the day. One of my best friends is a pre-op trans who was born male but feels female. My 10 year old daughters best friend says she's a lesbian (who has not acted on it) and who's birth father (who she does not live with) is at least a cross dresser but may be trans, I don't know. I have gay friends who have begged me to try the other team.

I believe that it doesn't matter why someone is homosexual or bisexual or heterosexual.

I believe that not all people acting homosexual, bisexual, or heterosexual are acting on their core "sexual identity"

I believe that the easiest way to deal with this is that people tend to identify themselves in the above groups by who they are in a sexual relationship with and that they tend to support their decisions after the fact and there is no reasonable way to argue it away. People who are in homosexual relationships are likely to argue that they always were in their sex just as people who are in hetero relationships are likely to argue that they always were in the other.

The only reason it matters if people are born one way or the other or become one way or another is to emotionally protect members of each group from their own insecurities.

I learned about some of this stuff the hard way when I talked about "normal" and "not normal" with the aforementioned "Dykes on Bikes" and was immediately threatened to be beaten to death (not entirely in jest) by a HUGE rubber phallus. Once I explained that my use of "normal" was using the mathematical definition and not the psychological definition I learned a lot about the emotional weight of words like "normal" and "choose" and "become" to members of the LGBT community ... so lets just not use those terms.

My gay friends believe all men are gay, they just don't know it ... yet. :)

beasted86
01-06-2016, 01:03 PM
I'm curious who said that? I'd disagree that they are "more likely to be gay" as a direct result of being molested. However I would agree with him/her that there are triggers for people that motivate them to live their lives how they feel on the inside. That isn't a new revelation.

I shun the complete notion that molestation of a child can trigger anything 'natural' that was already underlying. That's completely absurd and quite a sickening idea.

And to back up the "more likely to" comment along with discussion earlier by another poster, yes it's true. I've read studies that peg it at 3-4x more likely than children who weren't molested.

Gander13SM
01-06-2016, 01:41 PM
I shun the complete notion that molestation of a child can trigger anything 'natural' that was already underlying. That's completely absurd and quite a sickening idea.

And to back up the "more likely to" comment along with discussion earlier by another poster, yes it's true. I've read studies that peg it at 3-4x more likely than children who weren't molested.

I find it sickening and absurd that people believe being molested could make you gay.

You can't turn someone gay. You either are or you aren't.

If anything, being molested is more likely to put you off gay sex even more. If a gay man is raped he's not going to become more gay. You can't rape someone who is straight and turn them gay. If anything a traumatic event like that would have the opposite effect.

It's not like rape victims are thinking "well gee golly that was fun. Maybe I should put more **** up my ***?"

Are you a ****ing lunatic?

Saying men being raped by other men are more likely to be gay is absolutely insane.

This is by far the most ignorant **** I've ever seen.

I really am done. Why did I read through this thread again? Jesus Christ.

IndyRealist
01-06-2016, 01:45 PM
This thread and another seem to be attracting the same posters, so i'll say it here: read your g#&$!#n sources you cite. Most times they contradict what you're trying to say, but you just zeroed in on the couple of stats that support your position without reading the context. And that makes you look like a moron.

beasted86
01-06-2016, 02:02 PM
I find it sickening and absurd that people believe being molested could make you gay.

You can't turn someone gay. You either are or you aren't.

If anything, being molested is more likely to put you off gay sex even more. If a gay man is raped he's not going to become more gay. You can't rape someone who is straight and turn them gay. If anything a traumatic event like that would have the opposite effect.

It's not like rape victims are thinking "well gee golly that was fun. Maybe I should put more **** up my ***?"

Are you a ****ing lunatic?

Saying men being raped by other men are more likely to be gay is absolutely insane.

This is by far the most ignorant **** I've ever seen.

I really am done. Why did I read through this thread again? Jesus Christ.

First things first, comparing men and children are completely different discussions and only somebody who is completely ignorant about growth and development would confuse the two and try and make any analogy or correlation using the two different groups.

So I'll just leave it, there will be no secondary point. I'm not going to discuss anything further with someone who can't comprehend something this simple and furthermore put words into my mouth.

LOb0
01-06-2016, 02:39 PM
Lmao Iggy

krazylegz
01-06-2016, 02:56 PM
thread close please....he didnt even say it....his crazy ex girlfriend did

beasted86
01-06-2016, 03:31 PM
This thread and another seem to be attracting the same posters, so i'll say it here: read your g#&$!#n sources you cite. Most times they contradict what you're trying to say, but you just zeroed in on the couple of stats that support your position without reading the context. And that makes you look like a moron.

I don't know who exactly you're talking to or about, but since I supported a statistic mentioned earlier by someone else, I'll drop a source that backs up what the other person and I said:


Nevertheless, it is disturbing to find that although under 4 percent of boys are molested by men, a recent major study found that the rate of childhood molestation by men among homosexual or bisexual men was nearly ten times that (35 percent). It is also notable that 75 percent of homosexual men report their first homosexual experience prior to the age of sixteen, as compared to 22 percent of heterosexual men reporting their first heterosexual experience. (5) http://www.citizenlink.com/2010/06/17/childhood-sexual-abuse-and-male-homosexuality/


Anyway, what people want to actually do with that data... I have no clue. Maybe if you work in health sciences or whatever.

Me personally, I don't know or care about nature vs nurture, or how many straight or gay people there are in the world like I said earlier. My only observation was that it's sick when I hear people trying to basically say molestation has essentially no effect on a child's development. People who think such things to me have a couple screws loose upstairs.

Redrum187
01-06-2016, 05:14 PM
I don't know who exactly you're talking to or about, but since I supported a statistic mentioned earlier by someone else, I'll drop a source that backs up what the other person and I said:

http://www.citizenlink.com/2010/06/17/childhood-sexual-abuse-and-male-homosexuality/


Anyway, what people want to actually do with that data... I have no clue. Maybe if you work in health sciences or whatever.

Me personally, I don't know or care about nature vs nurture, or how many straight or gay people there are in the world like I said earlier. My only observation was that it's sick when I hear people trying to basically say molestation has essentially no effect on a child's development. People who think such things to me have a couple screws loose upstairs.

Can you copy/paste anyone saying that molestation has no affect on a child's development please?

I'm pretty sure both sides agree molestation carries with it negative ramifications. They might disagree as to what the ramifications are exactly. You happen to think being molested as a child increases the likelihood of "becoming" gay. Others (myself included) think that there are psychological factors that affect the child. As stated previously, I just don't think a person is more inclined to "become" gay as result of being molested, not that it "essentially has no affect on their development". That is astronomically different.

Redrum187
01-06-2016, 05:19 PM
I'm curious if there is a correlation with people who think a person can "become" gay and people who think a divine entity (Jesus, Allah, etc...) can "undo" it.

Captain Moroni
01-06-2016, 11:55 PM
I don't know, you know you better than I know you. :P

I'm using the real you in this scenario (assuming you haven't been molested and/or experimenting with homosexuality).

So all the information you're asking, fill in the blanks with your personal life history and answer the question. Would you be capable of "becoming" gay working in an all-male cast theater production? Why or why not?

Anything is possible

Captain Moroni
01-06-2016, 11:57 PM
Sure, why not? I can't account for a percentage of them as I'm not even sure if the percentage is even accurate, however, a lot of men in the world choose to keep their homosexual desires/predispositions dormant. Some of them cease to keep it so for a variety of reasons, while others will die without anyone knowing it. Is it that unbelievable that someone would believe this?

I strongly encourage you to watch the movie, The Danish Girl. It's a perfect example of people keeping predispositions dormant.

You seem to separate bisexual with homosexual, but include "homosexual desires" as a cover all. Are you suggesting bisexual men are not at all homosexual as well?

Captain Moroni
01-07-2016, 12:02 AM
I find it sickening and absurd that people believe being molested could make you gay.

You can't turn someone gay. You either are or you aren't.

If anything, being molested is more likely to put you off gay sex even more. If a gay man is raped he's not going to become more gay. You can't rape someone who is straight and turn them gay. If anything a traumatic event like that would have the opposite effect.

It's not like rape victims are thinking "well gee golly that was fun. Maybe I should put more **** up my ***?"

Are you a ****ing lunatic?

Saying men being raped by other men are more likely to be gay is absolutely insane.

This is by far the most ignorant **** I've ever seen.

I really am done. Why did I read through this thread again? Jesus Christ.

I'm not saying that being molested will make you Gay. But the evidence and facts definitely point to it becoming a HUGE factor in why some men become Gay. Science proves this, why are you so opposed to the idea?
I'm also not talking about a grown man, but a child. The amount of Gay men that have been molested as boys is amazingly high. Yet you close off your mind to any correlation? Pretty closed minded.

Captain Moroni
01-07-2016, 12:05 AM
Can you copy/paste anyone saying that molestation has no affect on a child's development please?

I'm pretty sure both sides agree molestation carries with it negative ramifications. They might disagree as to what the ramifications are exactly. You happen to think being molested as a child increases the likelihood of "becoming" gay. Others (myself included) think that there are psychological factors that affect the child. As stated previously, I just don't think a person is more inclined to "become" gay as result of being molested, not that it "essentially has no affect on their development". That is astronomically different.

Yet so many Gay men have the exact same story of being molested at a young age by a man. Don't you find that even remotely strange?

Captain Moroni
01-07-2016, 12:07 AM
They were born gay.

Where are you getting these numbers from?

Every single Gay man that ever existed?

Redrum187
01-07-2016, 12:27 AM
Yet so many Gay men have the exact same story of being molested at a young age by a man. Don't you find that even remotely strange?

I find it terribly sad and unfortunate.

More males have been molested by men and end up being heterosexual than homosexual but I won't argue that their molestation made them "become" heterosexual. I'd argue they were heterosexual to begin with.

Redrum187
01-07-2016, 12:30 AM
You seem to separate bisexual with homosexual, but include "homosexual desires" as a cover all. Are you suggesting bisexual men are not at all homosexual as well?

I'm not sure what you mean by separating bisexual with homosexual. Are you asking if I distinguish the two?

If so, yes. Homosexual = same sex, bisexual = both sexes.

Bisexual men have homosexual predispositions/desires as well as heterosexual.

Sadds The Gr8
01-07-2016, 12:39 AM
Looool

Lakers + Giants
01-07-2016, 12:53 AM
I've never understood people that believe you're born gay. I 100% will never believe that.

raiderposting
01-07-2016, 02:42 AM
I've never understood people that believe you're born gay. I 100% will never believe that.

So what you're saying is that you've technically thought about ****ing a dude. Nothing wrong with that but your comment is proof you're not 100% straight and you have fear/ a phobia. It's a spectrum bro. Since I'm 100% straight I'm 100% sure you are born like that.

Lakers + Giants
01-07-2016, 04:35 AM
So what you're saying is that you've technically thought about ****ing a dude. Nothing wrong with that but your comment is proof you're not 100% straight and you have fear/ a phobia. It's a spectrum bro. Since I'm 100% straight I'm 100% sure you are born like that.

Idk how u got that out of my post haha. What im saying is somewhere down the line you know whether you're gay or straight. Not everyone finds out at the same time, but i do believe it's your decision. It's not something you're born with or predetermined.

Redrum187
01-07-2016, 04:52 AM
Idk how u got that out of my post haha. What im saying is somewhere down the line you know whether you're gay or straight. Not everyone finds out at the same time, but i do believe it's your decision. It's not something you're born with or predetermined.

Can homosexual people simply choose to cease in desiring people of the same sex and instantaneously be transformed to heterosexuals?

Lakers + Giants
01-07-2016, 04:58 AM
Can homosexual people simply choose to cease in desiring people of the same sex and instantaneously be transformed to heterosexuals?

well if they're homosexual they've already made their decision, they can also be bisexual.

JWO35
01-07-2016, 10:02 AM
thread close please....he didnt even say it....his crazy ex girlfriend did

People don't click links anymore, they just read the title and go off that.

And people wonder why PSD is on the decline, BS threads like this does not belong on a sports website(I'm sure OP didn't anticipate for his thread to be hijacked)...seriously arguing sexuality is one of the most commented threads on a NBA forum :facepalm:

Captain Moroni
01-07-2016, 11:12 AM
This is where the lines get blurred.
People want to define Gay/Homosexual or Bisexual as being different in nature.
The reality is that if you are a man having consensual sex with another man you are Gay. You are a homosexual. The fact that you are also having sex with a woman does not mean that you are not Gay.
If I like Ford trucks AND I like Chevy trucks, call me Bi-Auto all you like. It doesn't mean I don't like Chevy, just because I like Ford.
I understand the terms Bi-sexual and Gay are used to determine if one is still attracted to women as well, but make no mistake about it, bi-sexual men are homosexual. The term does not exclude those who are sleeping with women as well.
Here is the Websters dictionary description of "Homosexual"
Full Definition of homosexual
1
: of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex
2
: of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex
ho·mo·sex·u·al·ly adverb

Scoots
01-07-2016, 11:45 AM
Idk how u got that out of my post haha. What im saying is somewhere down the line you know whether you're gay or straight. Not everyone finds out at the same time, but i do believe it's your decision. It's not something you're born with or predetermined.

There are things about you that you were not born with nor that were your decision.

Hawkeye15
01-07-2016, 11:50 AM
Idk how u got that out of my post haha. What im saying is somewhere down the line you know whether you're gay or straight. Not everyone finds out at the same time, but i do believe it's your decision. It's not something you're born with or predetermined.

I could buy that maybe you are not born gay, but chemically as you develop you do become gay/straight/bi. But it's determined in your makeup somewhere along the lines, you don't just wake up one day, and go, "I like dudes".

Like, no matter how hard I tried, I could never be sexually turned on by a man. It can't happen. I have no choice...

ewing
01-07-2016, 11:57 AM
I could buy that maybe you are not born gay, but chemically as you develop you do become gay/straight/bi. But it's determined in your makeup somewhere along the lines, you don't just wake up one day, and go, "I like dudes".

Like, no matter how hard I tried, I could never be sexually turned on by a man. It can't happen. I have no choice...

Even if you were working in the all-male theater?

Lakers + Giants
01-07-2016, 12:00 PM
I could buy that maybe you are not born gay, but chemically as you develop you do become gay/straight/bi. But it's determined in your makeup somewhere along the lines, you don't just wake up one day, and go, "I like dudes".

Like, no matter how hard I tried, I could never be sexually turned on by a man. It can't happen. I have no choice...

Neither can I. I just think that somewhere / sonetime in your life you made that decision. You know what you like and that's what suits you. Imo that's decision based, not something you're born with. That's just always been my belief.

Lakers + Giants
01-07-2016, 12:01 PM
Even if you were working in the all-male theater?

:laugh2:

Scoots
01-07-2016, 01:36 PM
I could buy that maybe you are not born gay, but chemically as you develop you do become gay/straight/bi. But it's determined in your makeup somewhere along the lines, you don't just wake up one day, and go, "I like dudes".

Like, no matter how hard I tried, I could never be sexually turned on by a man. It can't happen. I have no choice...

My gay friends think you (and essentially all men) are gay, you just don't know it yet. Maybe there is some dude out there that would just do it for you. I can look at Brad Pitt and see a fine looking guy ... I don't get aroused looking at him (assuming he's not next to his wife) ... but maybe there is someone out there that would do it for me. Who knows.

My best friend in high-school dated and slept with girls ... then one day he decided he was pitching for the wrong team. Maybe he was in denial before that day, but he says not ... he still really cared for his girlfriend at the time ... but he switched teams and never had a second thought about going back. HE doesn't know if he was born gay or if something happened to him or if it was a choice ... it just is.

My daughter has liked boys from very early in her childhood ... yesterday she came out of her room with a very lesbian hair-do and she's been spending time with a girl who identifies as a lesbian (she's 11). It's not a coincidence. I don't know if my daughter will end up straight or not, but I bet she will be more likely to suppress any homosexual urges if she has them, possibly for her entire life, if lesbian love is never modeled for her.

There is no cut a dried answer to this ... we don't KNOW how or why homosexual desires happen. The human genome has been mapped, there is no gene that turns it on or off, but that's about all we know about that. As long as someone is happy in life and happy with who they are what more can someone want for someone else, for themselves, or from someone else?

Captain Moroni
01-07-2016, 02:51 PM
Even if you were working in the all-male theater?

Now that was funny
I actually burst out laughing

Captain Moroni
01-07-2016, 02:53 PM
Are Spiritual Religious people born that way?

Redrum187
01-07-2016, 05:02 PM
well if they're homosexual they've already made their decision, they can also be bisexual.

But your argument is that "it's a choice". How can a preferential choice be unchangeable? If I'm going to WhatABurger to eat a hamburger, I can instantly choose to go to Del Taco instead and eat a Macho Nacho.

You're essentially saying, "Being gay is a choice. After choosing to be gay, it's not a choice anymore because they can't choose to stop liking people of the same sex and instantaneously transform to "becoming" heterosexual." In which case, it's not a choice. :laugh:

Redrum187
01-07-2016, 05:12 PM
This is where the lines get blurred.
People want to define Gay/Homosexual or Bisexual as being different in nature.
The reality is that if you are a man having consensual sex with another man you are Gay. You are a homosexual. The fact that you are also having sex with a woman does not mean that you are not Gay.
If I like Ford trucks AND I like Chevy trucks, call me Bi-Auto all you like. It doesn't mean I don't like Chevy, just because I like Ford.
I understand the terms Bi-sexual and Gay are used to determine if one is still attracted to women as well, but make no mistake about it, bi-sexual men are homosexual. The term does not exclude those who are sleeping with women as well.
Here is the Websters dictionary description of "Homosexual"
Full Definition of homosexual
1
: of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex
2
: of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex
ho·mo·sex·u·al·ly adverb

Do you remember when you asked me how I distinguished them and I answered? What did you think of my response?

As for your description that bisexual people are homosexual doesn't make any sense. Would you call the color "purple" 2 other names (red and blue)? Purple, as you probably know, is comprised of 2 colors. No one calls purple "red" or "blue", but rather it's specific term "purple". You're essentially saying a bisexual is a homosexual which IF true, would mean homosexuals are bisexuals... which isn't the case.

True or False:

A bisexual person is a person with homosexual and heterosexual desires.

FlashBolt
01-07-2016, 05:22 PM
You don't turn gay.. you are either born with it deep down and it has to be triggered or you won't. In reality, we are all gay in some way. If we look at the mirror and picture ourselves as appealing, there is some sort of "gay" judgement going on to some degree. What Iggy said was disgraceful, though. I'm not sure what his stance or view of it is completely but that's just not right.

FlashBolt
01-07-2016, 05:25 PM
Idk how u got that out of my post haha. What im saying is somewhere down the line you know whether you're gay or straight. Not everyone finds out at the same time, but i do believe it's your decision. It's not something you're born with or predetermined.

Your opinion doesn't correlate with what studies show, though. You can't "decide" to be gay. Who the hell would decide to be bullied, laughed at, mocked, and everything else? Who the hell would decide to be gay and not come out of the closet for a portion of their lives? Homosexuals commit suicide because well, they are homosexuals. Not saying I agree with the idea of a guy being with a guy and vice-versa but it isn't a decision.

Redrum187
01-07-2016, 05:34 PM
Your opinion doesn't correlate with what studies show, though. You can't "decide" to be gay. Who the hell would decide to be bullied, laughed at, mocked, and everything else? Who the hell would decide to be gay and not come out of the closet for a portion of their lives? Homosexuals commit suicide because well, they are homosexuals. Not saying I agree with the idea of a guy being with a guy and vice-versa but it isn't a decision.

Agreed. I have a friend who once told me, "A person decides which genre of porn they are going to watch, not which genre they are going to like." lol

Hawkeye15
01-07-2016, 05:44 PM
Neither can I. I just think that somewhere / sonetime in your life you made that decision. You know what you like and that's what suits you. Imo that's decision based, not something you're born with. That's just always been my belief.

Oh I don't think it's a decision, somewhere, chemically, your body signals what you are attracted to, and what you are not attracted to. Does it come in the womb? Idk. Does it come later? Idk. But I don't believe someone chooses to be gay, straight, or bi. It is chemically in them.

Hawkeye15
01-07-2016, 05:45 PM
My gay friends think you (and essentially all men) are gay, you just don't know it yet. Maybe there is some dude out there that would just do it for you. I can look at Brad Pitt and see a fine looking guy ... I don't get aroused looking at him (assuming he's not next to his wife) ... but maybe there is someone out there that would do it for me. Who knows.

My best friend in high-school dated and slept with girls ... then one day he decided he was pitching for the wrong team. Maybe he was in denial before that day, but he says not ... he still really cared for his girlfriend at the time ... but he switched teams and never had a second thought about going back. HE doesn't know if he was born gay or if something happened to him or if it was a choice ... it just is.

My daughter has liked boys from very early in her childhood ... yesterday she came out of her room with a very lesbian hair-do and she's been spending time with a girl who identifies as a lesbian (she's 11). It's not a coincidence. I don't know if my daughter will end up straight or not, but I bet she will be more likely to suppress any homosexual urges if she has them, possibly for her entire life, if lesbian love is never modeled for her.

There is no cut a dried answer to this ... we don't KNOW how or why homosexual desires happen. The human genome has been mapped, there is no gene that turns it on or off, but that's about all we know about that. As long as someone is happy in life and happy with who they are what more can someone want for someone else, for themselves, or from someone else?

I can tell you for a fact, that there is no man out there that is going to turn me on dude. I can fully admit when a man is good looking, or has a nice body. But the mere thought of physical contact sexually with a man literally churns my stomach.

Scoots
01-07-2016, 06:03 PM
I can tell you for a fact, that there is no man out there that is going to turn me on dude. I can fully admit when a man is good looking, or has a nice body. But the mere thought of physical contact sexually with a man literally churns my stomach.

LOL ... okay. It wouldn't "churn my stomach" but it doesn't do anything for me

Hawkeye15
01-07-2016, 06:10 PM
LOL ... okay. It wouldn't "churn my stomach" but it doesn't do anything for me

Frankly I don't get how women want to have sex with us. No wonder they are a much stronger chance at being bisexual haha

FlashBolt
01-07-2016, 06:20 PM
Frankly I don't get how women want to have sex with us. No wonder they are a much stronger chance at being bisexual haha

Hormones. I'm guessing males have a certain female hormone that causes them to be attracted to a certain gender. Some chemical imbalance nonsense is my thought on it.

Hawkeye15
01-07-2016, 06:43 PM
Hormones. I'm guessing males have a certain female hormone that causes them to be attracted to a certain gender. Some chemical imbalance nonsense is my thought on it.

well that, and we give them the baby juice. So evolution would force them to want us.

Lakers + Giants
01-07-2016, 07:15 PM
But your argument is that "it's a choice". How can a preferential choice be unchangeable? If I'm going to WhatABurger to eat a hamburger, I can instantly choose to go to Del Taco instead and eat a Macho Nacho.

You're essentially saying, "Being gay is a choice. After choosing to be gay, it's not a choice anymore because they can't choose to stop liking people of the same sex and instantaneously transform to "becoming" heterosexual." In which case, it's not a choice. :laugh:

I never said you couldn't switch, im saying i believe it's a decision. I do think some people are capable of switching, not all, but some.


Your opinion doesn't correlate with what studies show, though. You can't "decide" to be gay. Who the hell would decide to be bullied, laughed at, mocked, and everything else? Who the hell would decide to be gay and not come out of the closet for a portion of their lives? Homosexuals commit suicide because well, they are homosexuals. Not saying I agree with the idea of a guy being with a guy and vice-versa but it isn't a decision.

Well, you're not choosing to be bullied lmao. That's on the people who are homophobic. Idgaf about someone elses sexual orientation, their sexual preference doesn't affect me in the slightest.

Lakers + Giants
01-07-2016, 07:19 PM
My gay friends think you (and essentially all men) are gay, you just don't know it yet. Maybe there is some dude out there that would just do it for you. I can look at Brad Pitt and see a fine looking guy ... I don't get aroused looking at him (assuming he's not next to his wife) ... but maybe there is someone out there that would do it for me. Who knows.

My best friend in high-school dated and slept with girls ... then one day he decided he was pitching for the wrong team. Maybe he was in denial before that day, but he says not ... he still really cared for his girlfriend at the time ... but he switched teams and never had a second thought about going back. HE doesn't know if he was born gay or if something happened to him or if it was a choice ... it just is.

My daughter has liked boys from very early in her childhood ... yesterday she came out of her room with a very lesbian hair-do and she's been spending time with a girl who identifies as a lesbian (she's 11). It's not a coincidence. I don't know if my daughter will end up straight or not, but I bet she will be more likely to suppress any homosexual urges if she has them, possibly for her entire life, if lesbian love is never modeled for her.

There is no cut a dried answer to this ... we don't KNOW how or why homosexual desires happen. The human genome has been mapped, there is no gene that turns it on or off, but that's about all we know about that. As long as someone is happy in life and happy with who they are what more can someone want for someone else, for themselves, or from someone else?

This goes with what i basically been saying.

In all honesty i don't think there's a clear cut answer. I just hate when people try to force their belief on us and try to pass it off as if its 100% true. Same goes with religion, but i don't even want to go there lmao.

Hawkeye15
01-07-2016, 08:12 PM
This goes with what i basically been saying.

In all honesty i don't think there's a clear cut answer. I just hate when people try to force their belief on us and try to pass it off as if its 100% true. Same goes with religion, but i don't even want to go there lmao.

if you are bi (which clearly his example is), then it's a choice. Some of us don't have a choice to be gay or straight. It is just in our makeup chemically.

IndyRealist
01-07-2016, 08:13 PM
I've never understood people that believe you're born gay. I 100% will never believe that.

Science disagrees with you. Most studies suggest that it is a structural difference in the way your brain is wired.

http://cercor.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2014/09/12/cercor.bhu194.full

http://www.behavioralneuroscience.org/neurogenetics_files/Rahman%20-%202005%20-%20Neuroscience%20and%20Biobehavioral%20Reviews.pd f

http://www.bu.edu/mbs/files/2013/01/NerveSpring2010-pdf.pdf


“the apparent interconnected nature of varying brain regions
suggests that factors operating early in development differentiate
on the basis of gender and sexual orientation within sexually
dimorphic structures and brain function in a cumulative manner"

Incredibly interesting research has been done on intersex infants (formerly known as hermaphrodites) who had corrective surgery performed at as an infant, go onto adulthood, yet identify with the opposite gender they were assigned to regardless of whether they knew they had corrective surgery or not.

https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/voices/why-are-doctors-still-performing-genital-surgery-on-infants

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/intersex-children-pose-ethical-dilemma-doctors-parents-genital/story?id=13153068

Jim Bruce was born with XY male chromosomes but ambiguous genitals. Doctors couldn't be sure if he had a large clitoris or a small penis and were convinced he could never live a "satisfactory life" as a man.

So shortly after his birth in 1976, Bruce's external organ and testes were surgically removed and he was raised as a girl.

He struggled for years, preferring "rough and tumble" play and being attracted to girls.

"I was unhappy, but it was really difficult to ask questions," said Bruce, now a 34-year-old writer from California.

When he was 12, Bruce was given female hormones so his body would feminize. Then, at 18, he prepared for a vaginoplasty -- "designed to allow me "to have sex with my husband."

But he knew something was wrong and, battling depression, sought his medical records when he was 19.

"I knew that I wasn't a girl," he said.

Lakers + Giants
01-07-2016, 08:35 PM
@Indy

http://socialinqueery.com/2013/03/18/no-one-is-born-gay-or-straight-here-are-5-reasons-why/

http://borngay.procon.org/view.source.php?sourceID=003512


"No one knows what causes heterosexuality, homosexuality or bisexuality. Homosexuality was once thought to be the result of troubled family dynamics or faulty psychological development. Those assumptions are now understood to have been based on misinformation and prejudice. Currently there is a renewed interest in searching for biological etiologies for homosexuality. However, to date there are no replicated scientific studies supporting any specific biological etiology for homosexuality. Similarly, no specific psychosocial or family dynamic cause for homosexuality has been identified, including histories of childhood sexual abuse. Sexual abuse does not appear to be more prevalent in children who grow up to identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual, than in children who identify as heterosexual."

lol, please
01-07-2016, 08:37 PM
Science disagrees with you. Most studies suggest that it is a structural difference in the way your brain is wired.

http://cercor.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2014/09/12/cercor.bhu194.full

http://www.behavioralneuroscience.org/neurogenetics_files/Rahman%20-%202005%20-%20Neuroscience%20and%20Biobehavioral%20Reviews.pd f

http://www.bu.edu/mbs/files/2013/01/NerveSpring2010-pdf.pdf


Incredibly interesting research has been done on intersex infants (formerly known as hermaphrodites) who had corrective surgery performed at as an infant, go onto adulthood, yet identify with the opposite gender they were assigned to regardless of whether they knew they had corrective surgery or not.

https://www.opensocietyfoundations.org/voices/why-are-doctors-still-performing-genital-surgery-on-infants

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/intersex-children-pose-ethical-dilemma-doctors-parents-genital/story?id=13153068

You don't really refute his point.

And, an infant who got their testicles removed and was administered hormones still considers himself a boy? I'd be surprised if he didn't. He had testicles for crying out loud.

And please don't reach for a rebuttal related to "trannys", it wouldn't even dignify a response.

Captain Moroni
01-07-2016, 08:59 PM
Some People are born to be spiritual.
Others choose to be spiritual.
If Some Hoimosexuals were born that way
Then Some people Choose to be Homosexual.
It's actually quite easy to understand

Captain Moroni
01-07-2016, 09:01 PM
You can call a Man a Bi-sexual all you want. If he is happily having sex with anther man, he is a Homosexual. And in most cases, he chose that.

Lakers + Giants
01-07-2016, 09:10 PM
Some People are born to be spiritual.
Others choose to be spiritual.
If Some Hoimosexuals were born that way
Then Some people Choose to be Homosexual.
It's actually quite easy to understand

This is what i believe as well. Some choose some dont. But not everyone is born with their sexual preference already determined.

lol, please
01-07-2016, 09:13 PM
You can call a Man a Bi-sexual all you want. If he is happily having sex with anther man, he is a Homosexual. And in most cases, he chose that.

One of my favorite stories as of late, is the very hilarious tale of Yusaf Mack:

http://heavy.com/sports/2015/10/yusaf-mack-video-philly-interview-facebook-page-dawgpound-usa/

He did a gay porn vid for 4k and assumed no one he knew would see, then got put on blast, tried to backtrack and told a story to the media saying he got drugged and basically raped, then when they threatened him with a lawsuit, he changed his story again and claimed to be bisexual.

:laugh2:

You can't make this stuff up, like Tommy Lee Jones said in No Country for Old Men.

IndyRealist
01-07-2016, 10:16 PM
@Indy

http://socialinqueery.com/2013/03/18/no-one-is-born-gay-or-straight-here-are-5-reasons-why/

http://borngay.procon.org/view.source.php?sourceID=003512
Source #1 is a blog.
Source #2: ""Gay, Lesbian and Bisexual Fact Sheet," May 2000"


I'm pointing you to recent scientific research.

Redrum187
01-07-2016, 10:17 PM
I never said you couldn't switch, im saying i believe it's a decision. I do think some people are capable of switching, not all, but some.

So then directly answer the questioned I asked a page or two ago without saying "but they already made their choice." I'm asking a theoretical question.

Can gay people make a conscious "decision" or "choice" to stop liking people of the same sex and then make a "decision" or "choice" to start liking people of the opposite sex, thereby making them heterosexual instantaneously?

IndyRealist
01-07-2016, 10:18 PM
You don't really refute his point.

And, an infant who got their testicles removed and was administered hormones still considers himself a boy? I'd be surprised if he didn't. He had testicles for crying out loud.

And please don't reach for a rebuttal related to "trannys", it wouldn't even dignify a response.

You just did. "an infant who got their testicles removed and was administered hormones still considers himself a boy? I'd be surprised if he didn't." If sexuality were a choice, then a child who was surgically corrected to be a girl, raised as a girl, given hormone treatments and additional surgery to be a girl, KNOWS she is a he, then how is it choice?

Did you read the research pointing to differences in brain structure and connectivity? That former men who identify as female have brain connections of a woman and not a man, and vice versa? 80% of brain development occurs by age 3. So a toddler decided that they are going to be sexually attracted to the same gender, as opposed to EVERYTHING THEY'RE TAUGHT TO THAT POINT?

Redrum187
01-07-2016, 10:23 PM
This is where the lines get blurred.
People want to define Gay/Homosexual or Bisexual as being different in nature.
The reality is that if you are a man having consensual sex with another man you are Gay. You are a homosexual. The fact that you are also having sex with a woman does not mean that you are not Gay.
If I like Ford trucks AND I like Chevy trucks, call me Bi-Auto all you like. It doesn't mean I don't like Chevy, just because I like Ford.
I understand the terms Bi-sexual and Gay are used to determine if one is still attracted to women as well, but make no mistake about it, bi-sexual men are homosexual. The term does not exclude those who are sleeping with women as well.
Here is the Websters dictionary description of "Homosexual"
Full Definition of homosexual
1
: of, relating to, or characterized by a tendency to direct sexual desire toward another of the same sex
2
: of, relating to, or involving sexual intercourse between persons of the same sex
ho·mo·sex·u·al·ly adverb

***To Captain Moroni***

Do you remember when you asked me how I distinguished them and I answered? What did you think of my response?

As for your description that bisexual people are homosexual doesn't make any sense. Would you call the color "purple" 2 other names (red and blue)? Purple, as you probably know, is comprised of 2 colors. No one calls purple "red" or "blue", but rather it's specific term "purple". You're essentially saying a bisexual is a homosexual which IF true, would mean homosexuals are bisexuals... which isn't the case.

True or False:

A bisexual person is a person with homosexual and heterosexual desires.

Lakers + Giants
01-07-2016, 11:19 PM
So then directly answer the questioned I asked a page or two ago without saying "but they already made their choice." I'm asking a theoretical question.

Can gay people make a conscious "decision" or "choice" to stop liking people of the same sex and then make a "decision" or "choice" to start liking people of the opposite sex, thereby making them heterosexual instantaneously?

check scoots post (#166) , 2nd paragraph.

Alayla
01-07-2016, 11:56 PM
People don't become lesbians or gays or transgenders etc that's simply not how it works.
If your attracted to a certain gender you always where it does not just randomly change.

ewing
01-08-2016, 12:30 AM
I've had girls get much better looking after slobbing my knob, maybe its the same

Redrum187
01-08-2016, 12:36 AM
check scoots post (#166) , 2nd paragraph.


My best friend in high-school dated and slept with girls ... then one day he decided he was pitching for the wrong team. Maybe he was in denial before that day, but he says not ... he still really cared for his girlfriend at the time ... but he switched teams and never had a second thought about going back. HE doesn't know if he was born gay or if something happened to him or if it was a choice ... it just is.

Hahaha... when he says his friend "decided he was pitching for the wrong", I don't think he literally meant he made a conscious decision. If you read what Scoots says in other posts, he verifies this by saying it's not a decision or choice. :laugh:

But I take it from your response that yes, you think people can decide they no longer want to be attracted to a particular sex?

If so, are you saying you're capable of not liking women right this very second, and consciously "decide" or "choose" to like men, at the drop of a hat (assuming you wanted to)?

Lakers + Giants
01-08-2016, 12:41 AM
Hahaha... when he says his friend "decided" he liked men, I don't think he literally meant he made a conscious decision. If you read what he says, he says he doesn't think it was a choice at all. :laugh:

But I take it from your response that yes, you think people can decide they no longer want to be attracted to a particular sex?

If so, are you saying you're capable of not liking women right this very second, and conscious "decide" or "choose" to like men, at the drop of a hat?

Me personally? No.

Do i think someone else can? Yea.

Not at the drop of a hat obviously but i do think they could end up changing their mind at one point. Like i had stated before, I don't think that's the case about everyone, but I do believe some people are capable of changing their sexual preference.

Redrum187
01-08-2016, 12:48 AM
Me personally? No.

Do i think someone else can? Yea.

Not at the drop of a hat obviously but i do think they could end up changing their mind at one point. Like i had stated before, I don't think that's the case about everyone, but I do believe some people are capable of changing their sexual preference.

Scoots said his friend has no idea if he was born gay or made a choice... it just is. You would think that if his friend made a conscious choice to switch teams, he'd know about it.

I've known many homosexual people throughout my life. Not one of them has ever claimed they made a conscious decision to like someone of the same sex; They just did. I've had so many homosexuals tell me they wish they weren't gay. That if they could change their sexual orientation they would because of social factors. Are they lying or is it just a coincidence that the numerous gay people I knew didn't have that ability (but still, others might)?

Has any gay person admitted to you that they had this ability to consciously stop liking a particular sex in favor of the other? If not, where are you getting this information that maybe not all, but some people are able to "decide" they want to be attracted to the other sex?

Redrum187
01-08-2016, 12:56 AM
What's more probable and logical to believe:

1.) Someone can have the ability to control the sex they are attracted to.

or

2.) A heterosexual person comes out as gay as an adult may have had homosexual desires/predispositions his entire life.

MasterWok
01-08-2016, 12:57 AM
I doubt you flat out asked many of these homosexuals if they made a choice or not

not to jump in or anything

IndyRealist
01-08-2016, 12:58 AM
Me personally? No.

Do i think someone else can? Yea.

Not at the drop of a hat obviously but i do think they could end up changing their mind at one point. Like i had stated before, I don't think that's the case about everyone, but I do believe some people are capable of changing their sexual preference.

Despite all evidence to the contrary. Despite your admission that YOU cannot, but somehow magically it's different for other people. I gave you EVIDENCE that sexual orientation and gender identity are biologically determined, you've provided nothing of consequence to support your position. Yet you are here repeating it over and over like that will somehow make it true. I'm really confused as to why you can't even see the possibility that you might be wrong. What makes you so adamant that people choose to be gay when you didn't choose to be straight?

ewing
01-08-2016, 01:02 AM
What's more probable and logical to believe:

1.) Someone can have the ability to control the sex they are attracted to.

or

2.) A heterosexual person comes out as gay as an adult may have had homosexual desires/predispositions his entire life.


neither. what is problem is when people disvalue someone for having consensual sex.

Redrum187
01-08-2016, 01:03 AM
I don't think that's the case about everyone, but I do believe some people are capable of changing their sexual preference.


Neither can I. I just think that somewhere / sonetime in your life you made that decision. You know what you like and that's what suits you. Imo that's decision based, not something you're born with....


I've never understood people that believe you're born gay. I 100% will never believe that.

You're kind of contradicting yourself right now. You said earlier that everyone makes the decision of who to be sexually attracted to... then you say not everyone can change their sexual desires, only some can.

Which is it? :laugh:

IndyRealist
01-08-2016, 01:06 AM
I doubt you flat out asked many of these homosexuals if they made a choice or not

not to jump in or anything

You'd be surprised how often it comes up, when you hang out regularly. Most of the gay people I know are rather preoccupied with how much it sucks to be gay.

Redrum187
01-08-2016, 01:08 AM
I doubt you flat out asked many of these homosexuals if they made a choice or not

not to jump in or anything

I've asked many and more often than not they tell me without even asking when we discuss social issues.

You can doubt, but you have no idea what I do for work or who I've befriended throughout the years.

Redrum187
01-08-2016, 01:09 AM
neither. what is problem is when people disvalue someone for having consensual sex.

Come again?

Redrum187
01-08-2016, 01:09 AM
You'd be surprised how often it comes up, when you hang out regularly. Most of the gay people I know are rather preoccupied with how much it sucks to be gay.

Yes, especially my clients.

ewing
01-08-2016, 01:12 AM
Come again?

*devalue

ewing
01-08-2016, 01:13 AM
You'd be surprised how often it comes up, when you hang out regularly. Most of the gay people I know are rather preoccupied with how much it sucks to be gay.

guys is relationship with women seem to think the same thing

Lakers + Giants
01-08-2016, 01:19 AM
You're kind of contradicting yourself right now. You said earlier that everyone makes the decision of who to be sexually attracted to... then you say not everyone can change their sexual desires, only some can.

Which is it? :laugh:

How have I contradicted myself? I've stated some all along. I've never said all.

Redrum187
01-08-2016, 01:31 AM
How have I contradicted myself? I've stated some all along. I've never said all.


I just think that somewhere / sonetime in your life you made that decision. You know what you like and that's what suits you.

1.) Sometime in your life, you [people] made the decision to be attracted to the sex you are attracted to.
2.) Not everyone can decide which sex to be attracted to, only some can.

How can you not see the clear contradiction? You're saying that heterosexual people decided to be attracted to the opposite sex, and homosexual people decided to be attracted to people of the same sex. In the same breath, you claim only some can decide which sex to like. How can "only some" people decide when you said everyone decides at some time in their life which sex to be attracted to?

Lakers + Giants
01-08-2016, 02:51 AM
1.) Sometime in your life, you [people] made the decision to be attracted to the sex you are attracted to.
2.) Not everyone can decide which sex to be attracted to, only some can.

How can you not see the clear contradiction? You're saying that heterosexual people decided to be attracted to the opposite sex, and homosexual people decided to be attracted to people of the same sex. In the same breath, you claim only some can decide which sex to like. How can "only some" people decide when you said everyone decides at some time in their life which sex to be attracted to?

@ #2 I never said that..

I said that not everyone can switch from one sexual preference to another...


Do i think someone else can? Yea.

Not at the drop of a hat obviously but i do think they could end up changing their mind at one point. Like i had stated before, I don't think that's the case about everyone, but I do believe some people are capable of changing their sexual preference.

That's from one of my previous posts.

Redrum187
01-08-2016, 03:12 AM
@ #2 I never said that..

I said that not everyone can switch from one sexual preference to another...



That's from one of my previous posts.

So let me get this straight. You believe the following:

1.) People are born asexual. (You said people choose at some time in their life who to be attracted to.)
2.) Once you make your initial "choice" on who to be attracted to, some people can switch (flip-flop).
3.) Most people who initially "choose" to be heterosexual or homosexual in life cannot switch even though they were originally able to choose who they want to be attracted to; It is no longer an option for them. "Set it and forget it."

Do you mind my asking where your beliefs originate from?

Lakers + Giants
01-08-2016, 03:17 AM
So let me get this straight. You believe the following:

1.) People are born asexual. (You said people choose at some time in their life who to be attracted to.)
2.) Once you make your initial "choice" on who to be attracted to, some people can switch (flip-flop).
3.) Most people who initially "choose" to be heterosexual or homosexual in life cannot switch even though they were originally able to choose who they want to be attracted to; It is no longer an option for them. "Set it and forget it."

Do you mind my asking where your beliefs originate from?

Yes to all 3 of those/

Those are just my personal beliefs. Simple as that lmao.

Redrum187
01-08-2016, 03:18 AM
Yes to all 3 of those/

Those are just my personal beliefs. Simple as that lmao.

Right, and I we can respectfully disagree but even G S W has some origin of why he believes the way that he does. There isn't any sort of scientific study you base it off of though?

Lakers + Giants
01-08-2016, 03:22 AM
Despite all evidence to the contrary. Despite your admission that YOU cannot, but somehow magically it's different for other people. I gave you EVIDENCE that sexual orientation and gender identity are biologically determined, you've provided nothing of consequence to support your position. Yet you are here repeating it over and over like that will somehow make it true. I'm really confused as to why you can't even see the possibility that you might be wrong. What makes you so adamant that people choose to be gay when you didn't choose to be straight?

I dont think I'm wrong, I also never said you guys were wrong either. I believe the answer to whether someone is born gay or decides to become gay is in between. Some might be born gay, some might make the decision. I just don't believe that it's 100% true that all people are born with their sexual preference predetermined.

Lakers + Giants
01-08-2016, 03:26 AM
Right, and I we can respectfully disagree but even G S W has some origin of why he believes the way that he does. There isn't any sort of scientific study you base it off of though?

Nope, My personal beliefs, I don't try to instill them on anyone, just what I've always personally believed.

Could I be wrong? Hell yea lmao. But do I honestly believe it? Yea. The one Thing i don't do is try to force others to believe the same **** i believe in.

Redrum187
01-08-2016, 03:28 AM
Nope, My personal beliefs, I don't try to instill them on anyone, just what I've always personally believed.

Could I be wrong? Hell yea lmao. But do I honestly believe it? Yea. The one Thing i don't do is try to force others to believe the same **** i believe in.

That's good you don't do that. I definitely don't try to do that. However, I have a desire to understand people more than I want them to believe what I believe. My asking the person questions is a testament to my desire to understand. The inability to agree to disagree would be for the people who aren't content unless the other changes their mind.

Lakers + Giants
01-08-2016, 03:31 AM
That's good you don't do that. I definitely don't try to do that. However, I have a desire to understand people more than I want them to believe what I believe. My asking the person questions is a testament to my desire to understand. The inability to agree to disagree would be for the people who aren't content unless the other changes their mind.

Yea I understand. Was just pointing out that this is strictly what I believe. I'm not trying to get people to think that I'm right and everyone else is wrong.

All good. :cheers:

Captain Moroni
01-08-2016, 03:34 AM
It's ironic that the people who are so passionate about their position of fairness are the nastiest people on these boards. The insults and berating of human beings who differ from their opinions is eye opening to who they really are.
Agree to disagree, no one is changing their opinions because you called them a name.
My belief will never change because you believe something else.
I have been honest to my belief.
I have also not attacked anyone.
Some of you need to mature a bit. Not everyone agrees with you all the time. Get over it.

Lakers + Giants
01-08-2016, 03:35 AM
it's ironic that the people who are so passionate about their position of fairness are the nastiest people on these boards. The insults and berating of human beings who differ from their opinions is eye opening to who they really are.
Agree to disagree, no one is changing their opinions because you called them a name.
My belief will never change because you believe something else.
I have been honest to my belief.
I have also not attacked anyone.
Some of you need to mature a bit. Not everyone agrees with you all the time. Get over it.

this x100

IndyRealist
01-08-2016, 12:08 PM
I dont think I'm wrong, I also never said you guys were wrong either. I believe the answer to whether someone is born gay or decides to become gay is in between. Some might be born gay, some might make the decision. I just don't believe that it's 100% true that all people are born with their sexual preference predetermined.

I was gonna question why you believe that way in face of evidence to the contrary, but at this point it's no longer productive. Thanks for being civil, man.

FlashBolt
01-08-2016, 02:11 PM
I don't care for this topic at all other than it sending a terrible message out there to the already established WNBA players. But being gay is as much of a decision as being born black/white/Asian/Hispanic. You simply don't choose.. and tell me, if you did choose to be gay or heterosexual, can you tell me how the process was? Just curious...

Scoots
01-08-2016, 03:40 PM
I don't know that anyone is born gay ... I assume most people don't choose their sexual preference ... I believe some do.

To support that:
- It's possible the event that sets your sexual preference is in the first week of post natal life ... we don't know ... it could be before that ... we don't know. I don't think "born this way" is really important to believe to move the conversation along, and geneticists haven't been able to find a genetic corollary.

- When people become conscious of a physical desire for someone else the first time ... it was the first time. We have no idea what caused it. It could be internal or external ... it could be anything.

- I know people who are attracted to people independent of their genitalia but are only ever in relationships with people of one sex. They are making a choice to be solely homosexual or heterosexual. Often that choice is driven by social factors, but a choice it is.

Redrum187
01-08-2016, 05:40 PM
I don't know that anyone is born gay ... I assume most people don't choose their sexual preference ... I believe some do.

To support that:
- It's possible the event that sets your sexual preference is in the first week of post natal life ... we don't know ... it could be before that ... we don't know. I don't think "born this way" is really important to believe to move the conversation along, and geneticists haven't been able to find a genetic corollary.

- When people become conscious of a physical desire for someone else the first time ... it was the first time. We have no idea what caused it. It could be internal or external ... it could be anything.

- I know people who are attracted to people independent of their genitalia but are only ever in relationships with people of one sex. They are making a choice to be solely homosexual or heterosexual. Often that choice is driven by social factors, but a choice it is.

A person with homosexual desires/predispositions that chooses not to act on it is considered homosexual by some, but others state he has to actively choose to act on those feelings.

I, personally, use to think a person had to act on it, thereby making a conscious choice to be homosexual. I ignored the fact that they still had underlying homosexual desires even if they didn't act on it. That had more to do with being brainwashed a Christian. They teach that the sin isn't the desire/predisposition, it's acting on them.

In short, does one have to act on their desires to be considered a homosexual? I'm leaning no. "Recovering" alcoholics may not choose to act on their desires, but they are still alcoholics. Married men that don't act on their desire for other women are still heterosexual.

Scoots
01-08-2016, 05:52 PM
A person with homosexual desires/predispositions that chooses not to act on it is considered homosexual by some, but others state he has to actively choose to act on those feelings.

I, personally, use to think a person had to act on it, thereby making a conscious choice to be homosexual. I ignored the fact that they still had underlying homosexual desires even if they didn't act on it. That had more to do with being brainwashed a Christian. They teach that the sin isn't the desire/predisposition, it's acting on them.

In short, does one have to act on their desires to be considered a homosexual? I'm leaning no. "Recovering" alcoholics may not choose to act on their desires, but they are still alcoholics. Married men that don't act on their desire for other women are still heterosexual.

That gets back on the definition of homosexual and also my gay friends contention that every man is gay they just don't know it.

It's possible at some point in my life I was attracted to a male ... I don't know ... if it happened, was I homosexual for that moment? Am I still? Am I bisexual? I honestly don't know ... but I do know that if someone doesn't act on it nor at least say that that is their preference then saying that they are homosexual is a reach at best.

There are people who were alcoholics and who then claimed that they no longer had ANY desire for alcohol and who can actually drink responsibly ... I'm not sure that's a good analogy. (I was a falling down drunk and would get the shakes if I didn't drink a significant amount every day ... I drove drunk ... I moved to a different state, got a new group of friends, recognized the destructive spiral my life was in, and gave up the booze. Now I can drink if I want.)

lol, please
01-08-2016, 06:16 PM
Not everyone agrees with you all the time. Get over it.

Been telling the gay/LGTBTCBY crowd this for years.

Stop looking for excuses to victimize yourself, and grow a pair, or whatever the equivalent might be for the latest trend of sexual identification.

Redrum187
01-08-2016, 06:22 PM
That gets back on the definition of homosexual and also my gay friends contention that every man is gay they just don't know it.

It's possible at some point in my life I was attracted to a male ... I don't know ... if it happened, was I homosexual for that moment? Am I still? Am I bisexual? I honestly don't know ... but I do know that if someone doesn't act on it nor at least say that that is their preference then saying that they are homosexual is a reach at best.

There are people who were alcoholics and who then claimed that they no longer had ANY desire for alcohol and who can actually drink responsibly ... I'm not sure that's a good analogy. (I was a falling down drunk and would get the shakes if I didn't drink a significant amount every day ... I drove drunk ... I moved to a different state, got a new group of friends, recognized the destructive spiral my life was in, and gave up the booze. Now I can drink if I want.)

I think you missed my point (or I wasn't clear enough) about the alcoholic analogy. Let's assume an alcoholic wasn't "cured" of his desire to drink (which the majority still have). They don't cease to be alcoholics simply because they don't act on it.

I think that is why I try to put an emphasis on "having homosexual desires/predispositions". That much, both sides can agree on, even if they differ in belief on one having to act on it.

Question: If a Christian doesn't act on his sexual desires for women, is he considered "asexual" because even if he has the desire, he hasn't acted on it (which would be a stretch to classify him as heterosexual)?

I think if the Christian admitted to having heterosexual desires he ought to be considered a heterosexual, but people who believe one has to act on it have to deny him that title as it goes against their logic.

Scoots
01-08-2016, 06:32 PM
I think you missed my point (or I wasn't clear enough) about the alcoholic analogy. Let's assume an alcoholic wasn't "cured" of his desire to drink (which the majority still have). They don't cease to be alcoholics simply because they don't act on it.

I think that is why I try to put an emphasis on "having homosexual desires/predispositions". That much, both sides can agree on, even if they differ in belief on one having to act on it.

Question: If a Christian doesn't act on his sexual desires for women, is he considered "asexual" because even if he has the desire, he hasn't acted on it (which would be a stretch to classify him as heterosexual)?

I think if the Christian admitted to only finding females sexually attractive he ought to be considered a heterosexual, but people who believe one has to act on it have to deny him that title as it goes against their logic.

Gotcha on the alcoholic thing, I misconstrued your point.

I think something as personal as sexual preference we can't really assign a label to it without consent from the person being labeled.

Scoots
01-08-2016, 06:45 PM
I have a physically male friend who loves women but believes she's a woman in a man's body. We can label her a homosexual because she is in her mind even though she's only ever had heterosexual sex with women.

When that kind of thing can happen there really isn't much point in labeling people nor debating whether it was a choice or nature or nurture or whatever. It doesn't help the person in the situation and I don't think it really helps the people outside the situation either.

My wife is uncomfortable with the idea of talking to our daughters about sex when the time comes so it's been decided that I am the one who's going to take that job. I can understand the discomfort she feels ... some people have the same discomfort ... that discomfort may cause them to try to avoid all sexual discussions with their children and thus avoid situations with a lot of homosexual people present. It's not specifically homophobia ... it's just that they want to avoid an uncomfortable discussion. My 8 year old asked me the other day what a dildo is ... that was not easy ... and people like easy.