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View Full Version : Harden is the one ruining the game



MygirlhatesCod
01-01-2016, 06:00 AM
I've seen some discussions about curry ruining the game for the youth but really if anyone should be be the one it's harden. His whole game is getting to the line!! Why is that not the discussion?????????

Ezekial
01-01-2016, 06:08 AM
Wrong forum.

Kenny Powders
01-01-2016, 08:30 AM
Has your girl ever tried salt cod?

blahblahyoutoo
01-01-2016, 10:43 AM
No one cares about harden

ewing
01-01-2016, 11:14 AM
Are you really varsity captain?

D-Leethal
01-01-2016, 12:11 PM
Stepback fadeaways and shoulder bump flops - every coaches dream practice.

chi-townlove1
01-01-2016, 01:48 PM
It's quite laughable how people are on Hardens d*ck as much as they are. The man is just not a good ALL AROUND basketball player. He's super one dimensional and like OP said, depends so much on getting to the line.

JLynn943
01-01-2016, 03:18 PM
The complete lack of effort on defense is a terrible example for younger players. Unfortunately, it's smart for him to flail and flop as much as he does. That's on the nba to fix.

Redrum187
01-01-2016, 04:36 PM
I dislike James Harden as much as the next guy, but lets not pretend James Harden is the first to not give a crap about the defensive end of the floor. It's silly to say because he sucks defensively that he is terrible for the game. You would have to make the case Stephen Curry was terrible for the game prior to last season. He was a liability until last season.

As for his flopping, I personally can't stand it. However, it works, does it not? So in essence, you'll say "doing something that works is ruining the game"? Stephen Curry shoots a ton of 3's, but guess what... it's working tremendously! Whoever thinks Curry is ruining the game for shooting 3's is ignorantly and anecdotally looking at one aspect of his game. The same is true with Harden getting to the free throw line.

prodigy
01-02-2016, 06:54 AM
Its not all Hardens fault refs call fake fouls. IDK what it is, but every game 3-5 fouls called for him that are just not there. NBA is by far the worse officiated sport I have ever seen.

sf-fanatic
01-02-2016, 07:06 AM
I dislike James Harden as much as the next guy, but lets not pretend James Harden is the first to not give a crap about the defensive end of the floor. It's silly to say because he sucks defensively that he is terrible for the game. You would have to make the case Stephen Curry was terrible for the game prior to last season. He was a liability until last season.

As for his flopping, I personally can't stand it. However, it works, does it not? So in essence, you'll say "doing something that works is ruining the game"? Stephen Curry shoots a ton of 3's, but guess what... it's working tremendously! Whoever thinks Curry is ruining the game for shooting 3's is ignorantly and anecdotally looking at one aspect of his game. The same is true with Harden getting to the free throw line.

I think the difference between Curry's past defensive struggles and Harden's defensive struggles is effort. Curry suffered from a lack of athleticism (size, speed, strength) while putting effort on D. Harden's is just due to a lack of effort.

DboneG
01-02-2016, 04:31 PM
James Harden like Stephen Curry take a ton of 3pt. shots. Harden don't take as many ill-advised shots as Curry. Harden has horrible defense. Harden turn the ball over way too much. Harden has at lease 1 to 2 mental lapses in games that I've watched him play. Getting to the free throw line is a good thing. Getting the other team in foul trouble is great. Harden has a persona that the fans like....(the beard, and the chef/mixing thing he does).


Is James Harden ruining the game? To a certain extent....yes.

Redrum187
01-02-2016, 04:36 PM
Is Coach Pop (greatest coach of all time in my opinion) "ruining" the game for being a huge proponent of hack a Shaq? No. If he feels it works and the rules allow for it, that isn't on Pop. Same goes with Harden.

IndyRealist
01-02-2016, 04:55 PM
It's not Harden's fault. The rules are what they are, he's simply using it to win games. The regardless of how people think about zone, hand checking, etc. the way the rules are called allow for players like James Harden.

Saddletramp
01-02-2016, 05:24 PM
The straight majority of the time, the fouls against him are legit. And not only does he not get legit fouls called for him multiple times a game (negating any "phantom calls" he "gets away with") but every once in awhile, the refs have a game where you can tell they don't want to be "fooled" by Harden's driving and they don't call blatant, legit fouls hardly at all that are against him. In those games, he darn near has to get hip checked to the floor to go to the line.


Doesn't matter, though. To some people he only earns 10% of his fouls and is ruining the game (by driving to the hoop within the rules).

G_S_W
01-02-2016, 05:49 PM
The straight majority of the time, the fouls against him are legit. And not only does he not get legit fouls called for him multiple times a game (negating any "phantom calls" he "gets away with") but every once in awhile, the refs have a game where you can tell they don't want to be "fooled" by Harden's driving and they don't call blatant, legit fouls hardly at all that are against him. In those games, he darn near has to get hip checked to the floor to go to the line.


Doesn't matter, though. To some people he only earns 10% of his fouls and is ruining the game (by driving to the hoop within the rules).

Hardon is one of the game's most embarrassing floppers and yes, he receives phantom calls all of the time.

Hardon's typical play is to

1. drive to the basket,

2. charge into a defender,

3. throw his head back rear-end collision style,

4. cry out "dear lawd!" and throw his hands and arms up

5. throw the ball into the air, perhaps in the direction of the basket, sometimes not

6. wait for a whistle

7. go to the free throw line, or

8. stand around doing nothing while the opponent scores a transition bucket on a rare non call.


Beautiful basketball indeed.

lol, please
01-02-2016, 06:13 PM
Has your girl ever tried salt cod?

Are you really varsity captain?

:laugh:

Hawkeye15
01-02-2016, 07:36 PM
It's not Harden's fault. The rules are what they are, he's simply using it to win games. The regardless of how people think about zone, hand checking, etc. the way the rules are called allow for players like James Harden.

partially agree. I do think it sends a poor message to younger players that you can literally ignore playing any defense at all, and still be considered the best at a position. But, that is for coach's to fix.

Htownballa1622
01-02-2016, 08:41 PM
Dumb thread.

Harden gets calls but he also has games where refs miss the most obvious calls way more than u think.

https://youtu.be/814YDuzfK9U

Chrisclover
01-02-2016, 08:43 PM
Harden's performance on the court is so unstable yet his nightlife is always so consistently "wonderful".
Let's just say he may be a player who scores effectively at times but he is so inconsistent and unfocused. I wouldn't choose him as a franchise player.

Ariza's Better
01-02-2016, 09:42 PM
No one is ruining the game of basketball. All the the threads that state "blah blah is ruining the game of basketball" are so dumb.

Allphakenny1
01-02-2016, 09:45 PM
The straight majority of the time, the fouls against him are legit. And not only does he not get legit fouls called for him multiple times a game (negating any "phantom calls" he "gets away with") but every once in awhile, the refs have a game where you can tell they don't want to be "fooled" by Harden's driving and they don't call blatant, legit fouls hardly at all that are against him. In those games, he darn near has to get hip checked to the floor to go to the line.


Doesn't matter, though. To some people he only earns 10% of his fouls and is ruining the game (by driving to the hoop within the rules).

I am by no means a fan of Harden, but I do not hate on him as much as everyone else. The problem I have is when he drives to the hoop, much of the time it appears that he is not looking to score, but looking to draw the foul. If the defender has their arm out, he throws his arm into their arm like he is trying to score and they hit him. He sometimes runs into the defender when their feet are not set, yet he hit them to draw the foul. He is not doing anything wrong as the league allows this, but most people do not like this style of play. I want the foul to be called if there is one, but I like the offensive player trying to score and may be fouled, instead of driving to get the foul.

In terms of officials not calling blatant fouls on Harden so they do not get fooled, which I agree with by the way, this is him sort of getting what he deserves. They see him tricking them sometimes into phantom foul calls on video, so they do not want to look bad again so they err on the side of the defender and not Harden. If this happens enough, Harden and others may realize they should just try to score instead of drive to get fouled and it would make for a better style of basketball (at least according to me).

Saddletramp
01-02-2016, 10:28 PM
I am by no means a fan of Harden, but I do not hate on him as much as everyone else. The problem I have is when he drives to the hoop, much of the time it appears that he is not looking to score, but looking to draw the foul. If the defender has their arm out, he throws his arm into their arm like he is trying to score and they hit him. He sometimes runs into the defender when their feet are not set, yet he hit them to draw the foul. He is not doing anything wrong as the league allows this, but most people do not like this style of play. I want the foul to be called if there is one, but I like the offensive player trying to score and may be fouled, instead of driving to get the foul.

In terms of officials not calling blatant fouls on Harden so they do not get fooled, which I agree with by the way, this is him sort of getting what he deserves. They see him tricking them sometimes into phantom foul calls on video, so they do not want to look bad again so they err on the side of the defender and not Harden. If this happens enough, Harden and others may realize they should just try to score instead of drive to get fouled and it would make for a better style of basketball (at least according to me).

To each their own and it's refreshing to see a level headed poster comment rationally (I'm guilty of being a jerk at times, too).

I honestly think Harden tries to score everytime he drives knowing the foul will just be icing on the cake. I know he resorts to drawing cheap fouls on the perimeter if someone has their arm out but most guys in the league try this if they can.


As far as the refs not wanting to be duped, it's completely wrong for a ref to not call a clear foul if one is committed for any reason. That's just terrible. I don't know what else to say other than I disagree if someone wants to "not be duped".

G_S_W
01-02-2016, 11:14 PM
It's hilarious watching Hardon destroying the offense with his endless ISO's. This idiot dribbles out the clock on every possession, pads his stat sheet and demoralizes his teammates.

Well, it looks like another losing streak for the rockets.

Leslie's going to blow it all up. Hardon, Ho, Maury, probably all gone by season's end.

That's what you get when you don't pay attention to player character, completely ignore team culture and sign players who spend more time at strip clubs than at practice.

Redrum187
01-03-2016, 02:04 AM
Hardon is one of the game's most embarrassing floppers and yes, he receives phantom calls all of the time.

Hardon's typical play is to

1. drive to the basket,

2. charge into a defender,

3. throw his head back rear-end collision style,

4. cry out "dear lawd!" and throw his hands and arms up

5. throw the ball into the air, perhaps in the direction of the basket, sometimes not

6. wait for a whistle

7. go to the free throw line, or

8. stand around doing nothing while the opponent scores a transition bucket on a rare non call.


Beautiful basketball indeed.

This had me literally laughing out loud. :laugh:

Redrum187
01-03-2016, 02:18 AM
Dumb thread.

Harden gets calls but he also has games where refs miss the most obvious calls way more than u think.

https://youtu.be/814YDuzfK9U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSyuUQZSFlU
I can do this probably 10 times for every one you show me though.

Harden haters: 90% of his foul calls are on flops
Harden lovers: 99% of his foul calls are legitimate
Rational fan of basketball: The majority of calls are legitimate, but a decent portion are flops and/or exaggeration.

Conclusion: If Harden stopped exaggerating his foul calls, I think he would gain some credibility. However, if he stops exaggerating, I think refs won't call a foul as much (just as the refs miss it on other players who legitimately get fouled but don't exaggerate the contact). It wouldn't be in his or the Rocket's best interest if he stopped exaggerating and flopping.

Htownballa1622
01-03-2016, 10:24 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSyuUQZSFlU
I can do this probably 10 times for every one you show me though.

Harden haters: 90% of his foul calls are on flops
Harden lovers: 99% of his foul calls are legitimate
Rational fan of basketball: The majority of calls are legitimate, but a decent portion are flops and/or exaggeration.

Conclusion: If Harden stopped exaggerating his foul calls, I think he would gain some credibility. However, if he stops exaggerating, I think refs won't call a foul as much (just as the refs miss it on other players who legitimately get fouled but don't exaggerate the contact). It wouldn't be in his or the Rocket's best interest if he stopped exaggerating and flopping.

You're 10 to my 1 ratio is about as relevant as ppl claiming he scores 90% of his points from the line.

I watch every minute of rocket basketball. Not saying u don't but you can't do that at a 10 to 1 missed call ratio. He sells calls but he is also one of the most aggressive drivers in the game.

Not his fault ppl are too dumb not to reach and swipe his arm most of the times. I never said 99% of his calls are legitimate but I can for a fact say there are games at a time where he doesn't flop and refs just swallow their whistles.

I hate flopping but I also hate Crappy refs so I see why he does it to get the attention of refs.

Nobody ever calls out other players that love to flop (cuz they aren't that relevant ) but there are many. Jj barea, Patty mills, wade, dirk.

Redrum187
01-03-2016, 10:37 PM
You're 10 to my 1 ratio is about as relevant as ppl claiming he scores 90% of his points from the line.

I watch every minute of rocket basketball. Not saying u don't but you can't do that at a 10 to 1 missed call ratio. He sells calls but he is also one of the most aggressive drivers in the game.

Not his fault ppl are too dumb not to reach and swipe his arm most of the times. I never said 99% of his calls are legitimate but I can for a fact say there are games at a time where he doesn't flop and refs just swallow their whistles.

I hate flopping but I also hate Crappy refs so I see why he does it to get the attention of refs.

Nobody ever calls out other players that love to flop (cuz they aren't that relevant ) but there are many. Jj barea, Patty mills, wade, dirk.

I think it's relevant that I could find 10 videos of him flopping for every 1 video you show the refs miss it... I don't see how it's not. The fact is, all players get fouled and the refs miss it. It's the players that exaggerate that typically get the call at a significantly more frequent rate than players who just naturally absorb the contact.

The issue people have (I think it's smart for him in all honesty) is that even legitimate contact he gets he acts like he was sniped from the stands. If every player did what Harden does, refs would have to pay attention to it. It's cheap, but it is 100% effective and if I'm Harden, I keep doing it no matter what.

Also, I really just made up the random %'s to prove a point. The majority of Rocket fans feel like almost all of his foul calls are legit while the haters think the majority are phantom. I think the truth is somewhere in the middle.

Scoots
01-04-2016, 04:18 PM
The straight majority of the time, the fouls against him are legit. And not only does he not get legit fouls called for him multiple times a game (negating any "phantom calls" he "gets away with") but every once in awhile, the refs have a game where you can tell they don't want to be "fooled" by Harden's driving and they don't call blatant, legit fouls hardly at all that are against him. In those games, he darn near has to get hip checked to the floor to go to the line.


Doesn't matter, though. To some people he only earns 10% of his fouls and is ruining the game (by driving to the hoop within the rules).

Harden is ABSOLUTELY getting fouled and earning most of the calls he gets ... I don't care. The game should change so the tactic doesn't work. If you don't like the late game intentional fouls to extend the game you should be against Harden's game. If you don't like hack-a you should be against Harden's game. If you don't like all the Clippers whining for calls you should be against Harden's game.

Basketball is beautiful when played to the spirit of the rules, and ugly when played to take advantage of the letter of the rules.

I understand and can admire the effort and thought put into taking advantage of the rules ... that doesn't make the result good.

I have no solution for a player like Harden other than changing the rules so offensive created contact is never a foul which I would be okay with ... but there is still an officiating issue as that is difficult to call.

Rockets fans who say Harden is not getting extra FTs because of his play ... all elite wing players are fouled a LOT more than they get fouls called. Harden is VERY skilled at getting the call to the point where it's automatic to him ... no shade on the man, just on the game as a whole.

Scoots
01-04-2016, 04:23 PM
I can for a fact say there are games at a time where he doesn't flop

For me to accept this you have to tell me your definition of "flop" ... to me it's any exaggerated contact, and I've never seen Harden drive 3 times in a game without some exaggeration in his movement let alone an entire game. I think Harden would really struggle to eliminate some of his exaggerations he's so thoroughly integrated them into his game.

BTW, I think Klay Thompson, Harrison Barnes, and even Steph Curry could/should take more advantage of Harden's tactics as long as the game is called this way.

kdspurman
01-04-2016, 05:16 PM
For me to accept this you have to tell me your definition of "flop" ... to me it's any exaggerated contact, and I've never seen Harden drive 3 times in a game without some exaggeration in his movement let alone an entire game. I think Harden would really struggle to eliminate some of his exaggerations he's so thoroughly integrated them into his game.

BTW, I think Klay Thompson, Harrison Barnes, and even Steph Curry could/should take more advantage of Harden's tactics as long as the game is called this way.

Yea that's true. It's not always about flopping on defensive to exaggerate a shove or something and falling down. Harden (and I think it's just habit now) seems to always throw his head back as he drives into the paint. It's probably too late to eliminate em' from his game as you said, but officials aren't really calling it every time anymore which is good.

FlashBolt
01-04-2016, 05:57 PM
The game will always be called this way because it's incredibly difficult to see a flop when there isn't a flop. Refs have to be unbiased so they can't label James Harden a flopper and not give him any calls if there are actual contact. Yeah, they can fine them but that doesn't change the fact that Harden is completely using flopping tactics to score. Sorry but it's 100% ruining the game. If you think it is okay just because there isn't a 100% solution to deal with it, then let's change the topic and have ten guys out there all flopping. Would you want to watch NBA still? I don't like Harden and he's been probably hanging around the self-proclaimed "champion", Dwight Howard. You don't scoff at someone saying they're the best SG and then get outperformed badly vs them. Most of his points are either coming from the FT line or excessive amount of shots.

MygirlhatesCod
01-04-2016, 06:49 PM
I understand the rockets fans coming to the defense of Harden. it would be difficult for me to do that if he was a warrior but I get the loyalty. either way you have to understand that it makes most fans eyes bleed to see. if that's the way you think the game should go, then watching someone play that free throw game at dave and busters must freak you out. I understand that he does get contact however that's gonna happen when you aim directly at a defender while running full speed.

Saddletramp
01-04-2016, 07:11 PM
To me, driving into the crowded lane and getting banged around or slapped up isn't flopping. To me, flopping is selling contact when there is very little or no contact. Harden does this sometimes, but a majority of guys in the league do this as well.


And lo****ingl at Warriors fans complaining about flopping when a guy like Speights or even Bogut at times gets a little push and falls back like they just got a shotgun blast to the chest. That, to me, is flopping. I see it enough with DMo and Brewer to where I just roll my eyes when anyone does it.

Or when a guy runs down the court and just stops in front of their man as soon as their man turns their head to look back at the ball. I've seen that way too much and that is also ruining the game.

And yeah, Hack a Shaq is ruining the game. Superstar calls have their part in ruining the game. Most charges are part of ruining the game; the vast majority of charges are guys that just step in front of a guy without playing any defense. Some charges are actually the guy just defending or whatever and another dude barrels him over; those are legit but for the most part charges are not legit. They have become a work around on the rules.

Scoots
01-04-2016, 07:27 PM
To me, driving into the crowded lane and getting banged around or slapped up isn't flopping. To me, flopping is selling contact when there is very little or no contact. Harden does this sometimes, but a majority of guys in the league do this as well.


And lo****ingl at Warriors fans complaining about flopping when a guy like Speights or even Bogut at times gets a little push and falls back like they just got a shotgun blast to the chest. That, to me, is flopping. I see it enough with DMo and Brewer to where I just roll my eyes when anyone does it.

Or when a guy runs down the court and just stops in front of their man as soon as their man turns their head to look back at the ball. I've seen that way too much and that is also ruining the game.

And yeah, Hack a Shaq is ruining the game. Superstar calls have their part in ruining the game. Most charges are part of ruining the game; the vast majority of charges are guys that just step in front of a guy without playing any defense. Some charges are actually the guy just defending or whatever and another dude barrels him over; those are legit but for the most part charges are not legit. They have become a work around on the rules.

And Speights + Bogut's usage is what compared to Harden's? Lots of players flop no doubt. Harden dominates the ball and the game and plays an ugly game. It's VERY effective, but it's not particularly aesthetically pleasing.

MygirlhatesCod
01-04-2016, 08:13 PM
To me, driving into the crowded lane and getting banged around or slapped up isn't flopping. To me, flopping is selling contact when there is very little or no contact. Harden does this sometimes, but a majority of guys in the league do this as well.


And lo****ingl at Warriors fans complaining about flopping when a guy like Speights or even Bogut at times gets a little push and falls back like they just got a shotgun blast to the chest. That, to me, is flopping. I see it enough with DMo and Brewer to where I just roll my eyes when anyone does it.

Or when a guy runs down the court and just stops in front of their man as soon as their man turns their head to look back at the ball. I've seen that way too much and that is also ruining the game.

And yeah, Hack a Shaq is ruining the game. Superstar calls have their part in ruining the game. Most charges are part of ruining the game; the vast majority of charges are guys that just step in front of a guy without playing any defense. Some charges are actually the guy just defending or whatever and another dude barrels him over; those are legit but for the most part charges are not legit. They have become a work around on the rules.

that's the issue!!! its not the game its an effective glitch. if you enjoy glitching you are a douche that takes the enjoyment out of playing anything.

Scoots
01-04-2016, 08:45 PM
that's the issue!!! its not the game its an effective glitch. if you enjoy glitching you are a douche that takes the enjoyment out of playing anything.
No need to get snotty about it.

phantasyyy
01-04-2016, 09:36 PM
To me, driving into the crowded lane and getting banged around or slapped up isn't flopping. To me, flopping is selling contact when there is very little or no contact. Harden does this sometimes, but a majority of guys in the league do this as well.


And lo****ingl at Warriors fans complaining about flopping when a guy like Speights or even Bogut at times gets a little push and falls back like they just got a shotgun blast to the chest. That, to me, is flopping. I see it enough with DMo and Brewer to where I just roll my eyes when anyone does it.

Or when a guy runs down the court and just stops in front of their man as soon as their man turns their head to look back at the ball. I've seen that way too much and that is also ruining the game.

And yeah, Hack a Shaq is ruining the game. Superstar calls have their part in ruining the game. Most charges are part of ruining the game; the vast majority of charges are guys that just step in front of a guy without playing any defense. Some charges are actually the guy just defending or whatever and another dude barrels him over; those are legit but for the most part charges are not legit. They have become a work around on the rules.

Stopping in front of a player I think is hilarious.. off the top of the head Cp3 and lowry are notorious for this and I die whenever they catch the offensive not looking and get barreled over.

Not sure how you can say charges are ruining the game, I mean IT IS defense to be able to know exactly where to be in order to take the charge. It pretty much confirms that your on point with your defensive coverage and are literally one step ahead of the offensive player.

MygirlhatesCod
01-04-2016, 10:43 PM
[QUOTE=Scoots;30644492]No need to get snotty about it.[/QUOTE/]

Don't be so easily offended it's an opinion. The whole point is that if you exploit a loophole like Harden does or glitch in a video game to win then to me that's a douche move. If that's snotty to you then you must be a fan of it and it's cool you are entitled to yours. That is the point of the forum right? To state your opinion.

Scoots
01-04-2016, 10:49 PM
[QUOTE=Scoots;30644492]No need to get snotty about it.[/QUOTE/]

Don't be so easily offended it's an opinion. The whole point is that if you exploit a loophole like Harden does or glitch in a video game to win then to me that's a douche move. If that's snotty to you then you must be a fan of it and it's cool you are entitled to yours. That is the point of the forum right? To state your opinion.
I wasn't offended but i don't think you elevate the discussion by calling saddletramp a douche.

MygirlhatesCod
01-04-2016, 10:57 PM
[QUOTE=MygirlhatesCod;30644828]
I wasn't offended but i don't think you elevate the discussion by calling saddletramp a douche.

I wasn't trying to say he was a douche specifically. more saying its a douche move. But I can see how it read that way. That wasn't my intention

Scoots
01-04-2016, 11:15 PM
[QUOTE=Scoots;30644847]

I wasn't trying to say he was a douche specifically. more saying its a douche move. But I can see how it read that way. That wasn't my intention
Okay. I certainly don't like hardens game ... But i dont think he's a bad person for taking advantage of the situation either.

MygirlhatesCod
01-04-2016, 11:26 PM
[QUOTE=MygirlhatesCod;30644873]
Okay. I certainly don't like hardens game ... But i dont think he's a bad person for taking advantage of the situation either.

You PC bro

Scoots
01-04-2016, 11:36 PM
[QUOTE=Scoots;30644923]

You PC bro
Nah. Just prefer a civil forum.

MygirlhatesCod
01-04-2016, 11:38 PM
[QUOTE=MygirlhatesCod;30644966]
Nah. Just prefer a civil forum.

Sound like that principle pc from south park