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Redrum187
12-30-2015, 09:33 PM
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nba/2015/12/30/movement-on-social-media-asks-lebron-james-to-get-involved/78061996/


DENVER (AP) — LeBron James stuck his feet into the bucket filled with ice water as he talked about his role in social issues.

Right after scoring 34 points in a win over the Denver Nuggets on Tuesday night, the Cleveland Cavaliers star was asked about his reaction to a grand jury declining to indict two white Cleveland police officers in the fatal shooting of Tamir Rice, a 12-year-old black boy who had a pellet gun.

"For me, I've always been a guy who's took pride in the knowledge of every situation I've ever spoke on," James said. "To be completely honest, I haven't really been on top of this issue. So it's hard for me to comment on it."

There's a movement on social media urging James' involvement. The hashtag "NoJusticeNoLeBron" is picking up momentum, with activists asking James to miss games as a protest to the grand jury's decision. James hasn't heard much about it.

Tamir Rice was carrying what turned out to be a pellet gun when Timothy Loehmann shot and killed the boy within two seconds of emerging from his police cruiser in November 2014. On Monday, prosecutors said a grand jury concluded that Loehmann reasonably believed that it was a real gun and that his life was in danger.

"I understand that any lives that's lost, what we want more than anything, is prayer and the best for the family. For anyone," James said. "But for me to comment on this situation, I don't have enough knowledge about it."

When James played in Miami, he led a protest by the Heat players, who wore hooded sweatshirts for a photo shoot to protest the death of teenager Trayvon Martin. Last season, James wore an "I Can't Breathe" T-shirt in New York after Eric Garner was killed while being arrested.

James knows his voice and status can help him have a positive impact.

"I've been very outspoken about what I believe in, what hits home for me," James said. "There have been so many more issues going on that I haven't spoken about.

"There's been the San Bernardino massacres, been guys going to the movie theaters, shooting up movie theaters, there's been other issues. I don't have much knowledge so I don't speak about it."

James added that this issue is "bigger than LeBron. It's bigger than me.

"It's about everyone. Gun violence and tragedies and kids losing lives at a young age, some way, somehow, we have to understand that that matters more than just an individual."

What are your thoughts on this? Would you respect LeBron if he sat out games for this non-basketball related issue?

Saddletramp
12-30-2015, 09:56 PM
If players start sitting out games because of stuff like this than why stop at LeBron? Cancel the next Cavs home game. Anyone that feels this way across the league should sit out their next game. "Oh my god, the Suns players are actually suiting up for their game tonight?!?!?!?! They don't care about Tamir Rice! Let's get 'em!"


This wasn't a situation that affected the actual NBA like the Sterling thing. Not playing doesn't solve a thing and where will it end? It was a tragedy that happened but stories like this happen every single day. Should he sit out next time something like this happens and again when the verdict of not guilty comes in? Should French players have sat out after the Paris massacre?


If he/they want to, let them but I think it's garbage people are pressuring him to do anything.

Ty22Mitchell
12-30-2015, 10:06 PM
Doesn't really matter to me. LeBron is an adult, and he can make his own choices.

numba1CHANGsta
12-30-2015, 10:10 PM
He wouldn't do it if he didn't have two all-stars playing on the team

Raps18-19 Champ
12-30-2015, 10:11 PM
There's no good reason for Lebron sitting out so no.

kobe4thewinbang
12-30-2015, 10:14 PM
Maybe black people should quit waving guns around.

Ty22Mitchell
12-30-2015, 10:17 PM
If players start sitting out games because of stuff like this than why stop at LeBron? Cancel the next Cavs home game. Anyone that feels this way across the league should sit out their next game. "Oh my god, the Suns players are actually suiting up for their game tonight?!?!?!?! They don't care about Tamir Rice! Let's get 'em!"


This wasn't a situation that affected the actual NBA like the Sterling thing. Not playing doesn't solve a thing and where will it end? It was a tragedy that happened but stories like this happen every single day. Should he sit out next time something like this happens and again when the verdict of not guilty comes in? Should French players have sat out after the Paris massacre?


If he/they want to, let them but I think it's garbage people are pressuring him to do anything.

Just out of curiosity, were you against the protests in the 60's as well? Were you against the 68 black power protest too? Technically, the racism they were protesting didn't affect the actual event of the Olympics.

I don't really care about the cause, but individuals (specifically one's who carry a lot of wait) can affect change in large way by refusing to participate the system they view as corrupt. If Dan Gilbert wanted to cancel the Cav's game to protest, then who really cares. It's his business, his monetary loses. If Lebron wants to sit out, it's his game check.

I just read your last line. Feel free not to reply

Saddletramp
12-30-2015, 10:35 PM
Just out of curiosity, were you against the protests in the 60's as well? Were you against the 68 black power protest too? Technically, the racism they were protesting didn't affect the actual event of the Olympics.

I don't really care about the cause, but individuals (specifically one's who carry a lot of wait) can affect change in large way by refusing to participate the system they view as corrupt. If Dan Gilbert wanted to cancel the Cav's game to protest, then who really cares. It's his business, his monetary loses. If Lebron wants to sit out, it's his game check.

I just read your last line. Feel free not to reply

Not exactly sure why you're asking me questions based on my post before you finish reading my whole post, but whatever.

Although I wasn't alive in the 60's (I'm a Jimmy Carter kid) looking at them since I had/have nothing against them. You want to protest something with hand gestures or with a march? Cool. If LeBron wants to sit out a game because he feels that strongly about something? Cool. If everytime some sort of injustice happens people want him or others to show they care by sitting out a game? Horseshit.


If LeBron didn't play a team sport and had no teammates, front office or team owners to let down (let alone the fans) than I'd still think it's wrong to appeal to him to sit out in protest. The way he dealt with it is basically by saying "if I sat out everytime something crappy happened, I'd hardly ever play."


That guy gets so much **** it's not even funny. Posting something on social media is one thing. Not doing your job is another where others are depending/paying you.

Ty22Mitchell
12-30-2015, 10:48 PM
Not exactly sure why you're asking me questions based on my post before you finish reading my whole post, but whatever.

Although I wasn't alive in the 60's (I'm a Jimmy Carter kid) looking at them since I had/have nothing against them. You want to protest something with hand gestures or with a march? Cool. If LeBron wants to sit out a game because he feels that strongly about something? Cool. If everytime some sort of injustice happens people want him or others to show they care by sitting out a game? Horseshit.


If LeBron didn't play a team sport and had no teammates, front office or team owners to let down (let alone the fans) than I'd still think it's wrong to appeal to him to sit out in protest. The way he dealt with it is basically by saying "if I sat out everytime something crappy happened, I'd hardly ever play."


That guy gets so much **** it's not even funny. Posting something on social media is one thing. Not doing your job is another where others are depending/paying you.

A lot of times I skim read posts on here, because of the severe lack of brevity on internet forums.

I think I see what you mean. And I definitely agree with some of your points. The mob rule of the past few years has gotten a little ridiculous.

blahblahyoutoo
12-31-2015, 01:11 AM
What are your thoughts on this? Would you respect LeBron if he sat out games for this non-basketball related issue?

no, i actually respect lebron more for trying to be educated before he speaks on the issue, unlike every other lemming out there looking to automatically crucify cops without knowing the facts.

chi-townlove1
12-31-2015, 01:35 AM
Maybe black people should quit waving guns around.

While I want to laugh, you opened a can of worms that others may not take kindly too.

prodigy
12-31-2015, 01:49 AM
Can I not go to work then? I mean if LeBron don't have too...

I feel horrible for the family but we gotta look at facts. I don't know much about this either. But gotta use our heads. parents need to teach kids not to wave and point guns in public. The Cops screwed up too, But without cops society would be horrible. I'm more incline to side with them.

chi-townlove1
12-31-2015, 01:56 AM
Can I not go to work then? I mean if LeBron don't have too...

I feel horrible for the family but we gotta look at facts. I don't know much about this either. But gotta use our heads. parents need to teach kids not to wave and point guns in public. The Cops screwed up too, But without cops society would be horrible. I'm more incline to side with them.


Well said.

Tony_Starks
12-31-2015, 01:56 AM
Mature of Lebron not to approach the topic when he's not fully informed. He was very outspoken about Trayvon Martin's murder and other injustices so he's definitely not afraid to speak up.

Still no need to succumb to the mob mentality though.

blahblahyoutoo
12-31-2015, 01:57 AM
Mature of Lebron not to approach the topic when he's not fully informed. He was very outspoken about Trayvon Martin's murder and other injustices so he's definitely not afraid to speak up.

Still no need to succumb to the mob mentality though.

he probably learned his lesson because trayvon was responsible for his own death and lebron didn't want to look stupid backing up another guilty thug.

IKnowHoops
12-31-2015, 02:24 AM
Can I not go to work then? I mean if LeBron don't have too...

I feel horrible for the family but we gotta look at facts. I don't know much about this either. But gotta use our heads. parents need to teach kids not to wave and point guns in public. The Cops screwed up too, But without cops society would be horrible. I'm more incline to side with them.

Something Ive noticed though, and its not a black thing either...cops shoot to kill more and more even when they don't have to...and the reason is, dead people can't testify. A dude just got killed for coming at cops with a knife from 30 feet away. They unloaded on him. For what? People get shot in the back for running away from cops. And they unload trying to kill. Cops shoot to kill because they dont want someone telling on them for being racist/dirty/hunters/etc.

IKnowHoops
12-31-2015, 02:26 AM
he probably learned his lesson because trayvon was responsible for his own death and lebron didn't want to look stupid backing up another guilty thug.

:punish:

Saddletramp
12-31-2015, 02:27 AM
Something Ive noticed though, and its not a black thing either...cops shoot to kill more and more even when they don't have to...and the reason is, dead people can't testify. A dude just got killed for coming at cops with a knife from 30 feet away. They unloaded on him. For what? People get shot in the back for running away from cops. And they unload trying to kill. Cops shoot to kill because they dont want someone telling on them for being racist/dirty/hunters/etc.

This has always probably been happening to one degree or another but with social media, car and vest cameras and somewhat of a deterioration of the Thin Blue Line, it's coming out more and more these days. Cops are essential but the bad ones are pure ****ing evil.

Hawkeye15
12-31-2015, 02:31 AM
If informed, I have no problem with an athlete, or anyone famous, sitting it out. But, they should not be paid for the period of time they sit out. It's their choice to do so, they should sacrifice like anyone else does.

LA_Raiders
12-31-2015, 02:50 AM
He should know about the subject by now, specially if they are calling his name for support. Anyway he did respond correctly, don't speak if you don't know...

jerellh528
12-31-2015, 03:06 AM
Something Ive noticed though, and its not a black thing either...cops shoot to kill more and more even when they don't have to...and the reason is, dead people can't testify. A dude just got killed for coming at cops with a knife from 30 feet away. They unloaded on him. For what? People get shot in the back for running away from cops. And they unload trying to kill. Cops shoot to kill because they dont want someone telling on them for being racist/dirty/hunters/etc.

Yes, if you discharge a firearm, your intention is to kill. What is your point? Police killings justified and otherwise account for less than 0.0003 percent of the American population, let's say 75% of that number are justified killings, which is probably on the low end and that would put unjustified police killings at 0.00007% of the American population. The agenda driven Media has people like you in a frenzy.

Rush
12-31-2015, 03:33 AM
Something Ive noticed though, and its not a black thing either...cops shoot to kill more and more even when they don't have to...and the reason is, dead people can't testify. A dude just got killed for coming at cops with a knife from 30 feet away. They unloaded on him. For what? People get shot in the back for running away from cops. And they unload trying to kill. Cops shoot to kill because they dont want someone telling on them for being racist/dirty/hunters/etc.

Shooting a man coming at you with a knife is justified. What's the intention of the person with the knife? To severely harm or kill. Someone can close on you quick within 30 feet. What else do you expect the cop to do? Charge at him at him and risk getting slashed by the knife? No, screw that. Drop the knife.

Cops don't shoot to kill because they don't want any witnesses. They shoot to kill because they think it's warranted in most cases.

The cop shooting the guy running away was 100% wrong. There was no reason for that.

prodigy
12-31-2015, 03:41 AM
Something Ive noticed though, and its not a black thing either...cops shoot to kill more and more even when they don't have to...and the reason is, dead people can't testify. A dude just got killed for coming at cops with a knife from 30 feet away. They unloaded on him. For what? People get shot in the back for running away from cops. And they unload trying to kill. Cops shoot to kill because they dont want someone telling on them for being racist/dirty/hunters/etc.

If someone is pointing a gun at me I'm shooting to kill them. Because if I just hit them in leg that person could still shoot me. So if its between me and you, I'm picking me.

Gander13SM
12-31-2015, 03:44 AM
Shooting a man coming at you with a knife is justified. What's the intention of the person with the knife? To severely harm or kill. Someone can close on you quick within 30 feet. What else do you expect the cop to do? Charge at him at him and risk getting slashed by the knife? No, screw that. Drop the knife.

Cops don't shoot to kill because they don't want any witnesses. They shoot to kill because they think it's warranted in most cases.

The cop shooting the guy running away was 100% wrong. There was no reason for that.

How do you think officers in countries where the police don't carry guns would deal with that situation? Just out of interest.

Redrum187
12-31-2015, 03:46 AM
How do you think officers in countries where the police don't carry guns would deal with that situation? Just out of interest.

Like a security guard? :P

prodigy
12-31-2015, 03:51 AM
How do you think officers in countries where the police don't carry guns would deal with that situation? Just out of interest.

get stabbed... Or have some great fighting skills, Honestly. knife's are deadly. If you are charging a cop with a knife or gun you are prob not a very good person and society might be better off without you. Not trying to offend anyone or justify killing someone. But lets be real. Cops make bad decisions and we have bad cops. But MOST are honest men and women supporting families.

tdg823
12-31-2015, 04:31 AM
Yes, if you discharge a firearm, your intention is to kill. What is your point? Police killings justified and otherwise account for less than 0.0003 percent of the American population, let's say 75% of that number are justified killings, which is probably on the low end and that would put unjustified police killings at 0.00007% of the American population. The agenda driven Media has people like you in a frenzy.

Actually the false agenda I see the media driving is that there is a war on cops which is not only false, but dangerous to promote. Yes there are plenty of good cops, but why do they protect the bad ones? Police killings account for more questionable deaths than say, ISIS, so go tell the terrorism fearing people about your .00007% stat. Police exhibit consistent patterns of inappropriate and abusive behavior. Prosecutors constantly do shady stuff to protect them because they are crucial to their job and share a camaraderie. Grand Juries somehow function completely differently when a cop becomes involved. They escalate when their job is often to deescalate. If they are responsible, essentially for their own accountability, protected in their decisions and blindly revered by large parts of society, well that's a recipe for trouble that we've been brewing since the 80's. And some of you think it's got to do with body cameras, cell phones, etc. No we just have proof now (for what good it does when indicting a cop). This stuff has always happened. Some of you just made blanket assumptions that criminals are evil and cops are good, so of course those poor people and minorities brought it on themselves. It'll take a while for cop culture to adjust to potentially being watched, they're used to doing their jobs (and abuses) with impunity. So what if they beat a man half to death on camera sadistically, did it get the Rodney King 4 indicted? That set a standard for (some) of us to have to deal with. In summation, the war is by cops, not on cops and their ingrained, cultural lack of accountability is largely the problem (there's also an economic and military component to factor in, but we'll save that one for now).

tdg823
12-31-2015, 04:34 AM
Funny, when the Clive Bundy people pointed guns at cops (big ones and lots of 'em) they weren't so quick to get all testosteroney on them. Maybe something there, maybe not, I'll just leave that out there.

tdg823
12-31-2015, 04:42 AM
Maybe black people should quit waving guns around. I'm just a bit older than all this concealed carry stuff, but I'm much more concerned with the middle class white guys waving guns around anymore. In my experience, they tend to but a bit more emotionally stable but psychologically more unstable than many of the younger black kids with the guns. Their guns also tend to be bigger. Also they are carry their weapons to prove some kind of "point" in many cases vs. carrying it for perceived "protection" form a (somewhat self imposed in a micro way, but ya know strain theory, if you look at it in a macro way that's debatable, whatever I'll concede it here for the sake of simplicity) dangerous life style. Who's motivation and mindset are scarier to you?

tdg823
12-31-2015, 04:44 AM
Some of you might want to watch the video by the way...

tdg823
12-31-2015, 05:10 AM
Maybe black people should quit waving guns around. Granted, it doesn't settle anything, but I'll just leave this for you to look over http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/8-white-people-who-pointed-guns-police-officers-and-managed-not-get-killed

lamzoka
12-31-2015, 07:54 AM
A 12 years old playing with a toy gun and got murdered within 2 seconds of the police cruiser pulling up to the scene and some of you still think "he's a thug who's responsible for his own death"


How about the cop that pulled up to the scene gun blazing without knowing the facts?

But I'm not surprise man... Some of you are just happy to see another young black kid dead.

IndyRealist
12-31-2015, 08:42 AM
My god the nonsense in this thread....

No, Lebron should not miss games in protest. One, it's his job. He has a responsibility to fulfill his contractual obligations.

Second, what good does it do for him to forfeit salary? It's easy to say someone should protest when it's not your money. How about having him come to a rally? Or appear in a commercial? Or something that doesn't involve giving up hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Third, we all know Lebron wants to be loved. He can't stand when people don't like him, which is likely why you haven't seen him weigh in on any issues.

IndyRealist
12-31-2015, 08:48 AM
Maybe black people should quit waving guns around.

Funny, because for white people that falls under "open carry" and the 2nd Amendment. Having a gun in public is not a crime in and of itself.

Hardaway Here
12-31-2015, 08:48 AM
Maybe black people should quit waving guns around.


he probably learned his lesson because trayvon was responsible for his own death and lebron didn't want to look stupid backing up another guilty thug.

See ignorant statements like these are so widespread in this country today its ridiculous. Neither child was responsible for their deaths. Both of them were minding their own damn business and Trayvon wasn't even killed by a cop so that makes that situation even worst. Tamir Rice was a 12 year old child in the park minding his own business playing. You know that thing kids seem to do so rarely these days. He was where a 12 year old is supposed to be in a PARK PLAYING. There is no justification for any of these deaths. Especially considering they were both children who didn't threaten the life of either party. THEY DIDN'T GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO CONFRONT THE PERSON THAT KILLED THEM. Yet they get called thugs. People are so delusional in this country it's just beyond ridiculous. White privilege goes a long way. If you don't think it exist you might as well be walking through life with your eyes closed and ears shut.

HeartOfStarks
12-31-2015, 09:52 AM
^^ I basically agree with everything you say here, and another fact not really brought up yet I think is the fact that this particular cop had a history of emotional breakdowns at gun ranges, had been fired as a cop a couple years before, couldn't get work as a cop, and then finally was hired by Cleveland PD months before this shooting. So he seems like someone unfit for this job/responsibility IMO.

I 100% think a special prosecutor need to be brought in on every single one of these controversial cop shooting cases- how can you have a prosecutor who works closely with the department and is likely buddies with many of them prosecuting them, it's a clear conflict of interest.

All that said, and I do think this shooting at the very least should have gone to trial (no cpr after etc.), if you look at the video, it does appear in the beginning of it that the kid aims the gun at someone walking by, no? Just to be completely fair here, if he did in fact aim that gun at a passerby, and the gun looked how it does in the photos being released, I wouldn't really call that "just innocently playing." Granted he's a kid and may have just been being immature but if he aimed that gun you can see why someone would be legitimately threatened.

With that said yes there is 100% institutional racism in our criminal justice and policing system and its been that way for decades (centuries really). Talking about appropriate reforms should not be shut down.

And I'm fine with what Lebron said btw

C-ross12
12-31-2015, 10:40 AM
I've been impressed with LeBron outside of basketball ever since "the decision". He told college recruiters to piss off trying to recruit his young boy. Gave a bunch of scholarships away to kids in the area. I was fine with the "I cant breathe" stuff. Now he didn't give in the activists pushing for him to sit out.

As Indy pointed out earlier, LeBron has obligations under his contract that he needs to fulfill. In my opinion its pretty low of those activists to try to squeeze LeBron like that. Lets be honest, this is selfish activists doing whatever they can to push their agenda.

blahblahyoutoo
12-31-2015, 12:07 PM
See ignorant statements like these are so widespread in this country today its ridiculous. Neither child was responsible for their deaths. Both of them were minding their own damn business and Trayvon wasn't even killed by a cop so that makes that situation even worst. Tamir Rice was a 12 year old child in the park minding his own business playing. You know that thing kids seem to do so rarely these days. He was where a 12 year old is supposed to be in a PARK PLAYING. There is no justification for any of these deaths. Especially considering they were both children who didn't threaten the life of either party. THEY DIDN'T GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO CONFRONT THE PERSON THAT KILLED THEM. Yet they get called thugs. People are so delusional in this country it's just beyond ridiculous. White privilege goes a long way. If you don't think it exist you might as well be walking through life with your eyes closed and ears shut.

ORLY? here's some light reading for you to peruse.

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2012-03-26/story/authorities-release-new-details-paint-trayvon-martin-aggressor


That is the account Zimmerman gave police, and much of it has been corroborated by witnesses, authorities say.

In his version of events, he had turned around and was walking back to his SUV when Trayvon approached him from behind, the two exchanged words then Trayvon punched him in the nose, sending him to the ground, and began beating him.





He had been suspended from school in Miami after being found with an empty marijuana baggie.

model student we have here. i'm shocked no one has come out to say he was an aspiring rapper turning his life around.



http://www.usnews.com/news/newsgram/articles/2013/07/09/forensic-pathologist-says-trayvon-martin-was-on-top-of-zimmerman


Vincent Di Maio, a former chief medical examiner from Texas, told the jury that the evidence was consistent with Zimmerman's account. The powder burns found on Martin's shirt show that the shirt was two to four inches from his body, indicating he was leaning over Zimmerman when he was shot, Di Maio said.

"If you are lying on your back your clothing is going to be against your chest," Di Maio said, according to ABC News. "The clothing is consistent with someone leaning over the person doing the shooting."

yes, so ignant.

D-Leethal
12-31-2015, 01:52 PM
Granted, it doesn't settle anything, but I'll just leave this for you to look over http://www.alternet.org/civil-liberties/8-white-people-who-pointed-guns-police-officers-and-managed-not-get-killed

Come on, you don't think the press could dig up a measly 8 instances of an armed black person being confronted and NOT getting shot by officers? I understand it only makes the headlines when they do get shot, but I'd say the article about those who didn't would be infinitely longer.

D-Leethal
12-31-2015, 02:00 PM
A 12 years old playing with a toy gun and got murdered within 2 seconds of the police cruiser pulling up to the scene and some of you still think "he's a thug who's responsible for his own death"


How about the cop that pulled up to the scene gun blazing without knowing the facts?

But I'm not surprise man... Some of you are just happy to see another young black kid dead.

I would blame whoever called the cops more than the cops themselves. They were responding to a call that a person was waiving a gun around in a park loaded with children.

You think you can tell a toy gun from a real gun in that scenario?

Cops could have easily rolled up as aggressive as they did because they were trying to shield the children in the park from the deranged gunman they thought they were responding to (i.e. driving their car on the grass directly infront of Tamir Rice creating a barrier between he and the civilians they thought they were protecting).

Funny thing is all of these super liberal, anti-cop cities are the ones running most rampant with black on black gun violence. If blacks weren't out there shooting each other at astronomical rates, the cops wouldn't be running up to these scenes ready for a gunfight. Unfortunately, that is all they see in these inner urban areas and that is what they expect when they confront these people.

You live in NY - you should understand first hand what happened when De Blasio told cops to chill the **** out, got rid of stop and frisk. Black and black gun violence has skyrocketed. There are bad seeds in every walk of life, but the Cops aren't the underlying problem here.

The war on cops has done nothing at all but make us all less safe, and lead to increase inner city crime, guns and shooting.

D-Leethal
12-31-2015, 02:03 PM
I've been impressed with LeBron outside of basketball ever since "the decision". He told college recruiters to piss off trying to recruit his young boy. Gave a bunch of scholarships away to kids in the area. I was fine with the "I cant breathe" stuff. Now he didn't give in the activists pushing for him to sit out.

As Indy pointed out earlier, LeBron has obligations under his contract that he needs to fulfill. In my opinion its pretty low of those activists to try to squeeze LeBron like that. Lets be honest, this is selfish activists doing whatever they can to push their agenda.

Agree - the BLM mentality of "you're either with us, or siding with the enemy" is selfish as hell. They shouldn't put negative spotlight from within their movement on A+ black role models like LeBron.

I really just wish they even remotely acknowledged the black on black violence issues that trump the cop shootings when it comes to losing young black lives over nonsense.

Hawkeye15
12-31-2015, 02:28 PM
Funny thing is all of these super liberal, anti-cop cities are the ones running most rampant with black on black gun violence. If blacks weren't out there shooting each other at astronomical rates, the cops wouldn't be running up to these scenes ready for a gunfight. Unfortunately, that is all they see in these inner urban areas and that is what they expect when they confront these people.

The war on cops has done nothing at all but make us all less safe, and lead to increase inner city crime, guns and shooting.


10000% agree

blahblahyoutoo
12-31-2015, 02:51 PM
A 12 years old playing with a toy gun and got murdered within 2 seconds of the police cruiser pulling up to the scene and some of you still think "he's a thug who's responsible for his own death"


How about the cop that pulled up to the scene gun blazing without knowing the facts?

But I'm not surprise man... Some of you are just happy to see another young black kid dead.

how about everyone backing the BLM "movement" do some reading up on "facts" before joining these rallies.
if they were more informed, maybe they would realize that cops aren't as big of a danger to blacks as other blacks are.
maybe if they chose some actual innocent blacks to be martyrs, instead of thugs like trayvon, gray and brown, people would take them more seriously.

lamzoka
12-31-2015, 03:07 PM
how about everyone backing the BLM "movement" do some reading up on "facts" before joining these rallies.
if they were more informed, maybe they would realize that cops aren't as big of a danger to blacks as other blacks are.
maybe if they chose some actual innocent blacks to be martyrs, instead of thugs like trayvon, gray and brown, people would take them more seriously.

You make me ****ing sick. You clearly have something against black people. What have we done to you? Did your wife or girlfriend cheated on you with a black guy? Did your mom cheated on your dad with a black guy? What's the problem? Let's us know. Maybe we can help.

Zimmerman provoked Martin then killed him. But he's the "thug".
And Zimmerman threatened his wife with a shotgun. But I don't hear anybody calling him a thug.

mngopher35
12-31-2015, 03:21 PM
You make me ****ing sick. You clearly have something against black people. What have we done to you? Did your wife or girlfriend cheated on you with a black guy? Did your mom cheated on your dad with a black guy? What's the problem? Let's us know. Maybe we can help.

Zimmerman provoked Martin then killed him. But he's the "thug".
And Zimmerman threatened his wife with a shotgun. But I don't hear anybody calling him a thug.

Who cares if Zimmerman threatens his wife with a shotgun (and other similar incidents). Tryvon got suspended from school for having a marijuana baggie, he's the real thug...

cmellofan15
12-31-2015, 03:53 PM
I would blame whoever called the cops more than the cops themselves. They were responding to a call that a person was waiving a gun around in a park loaded with children.

You think you can tell a toy gun from a real gun in that scenario?

Cops could have easily rolled up as aggressive as they did because they were trying to shield the children in the park from the deranged gunman they thought they were responding to (i.e. driving their car on the grass directly infront of Tamir Rice creating a barrier between he and the civilians they thought they were protecting).

Funny thing is all of these super liberal, anti-cop cities are the ones running most rampant with black on black gun violence. If blacks weren't out there shooting each other at astronomical rates, the cops wouldn't be running up to these scenes ready for a gunfight. Unfortunately, that is all they see in these inner urban areas and that is what they expect when they confront these people.

You live in NY - you should understand first hand what happened when De Blasio told cops to chill the **** out, got rid of stop and frisk. Black and black gun violence has skyrocketed. There are bad seeds in every walk of life, but the Cops aren't the underlying problem here.

The war on cops has done nothing at all but make us all less safe, and lead to increase inner city crime, guns and shooting.

lmao there's a war on cops? cop deaths are down this year 3% (by gunfire down by 17%), while Illinois and Maryland (where black on black violence is pretty prevelant) accounted for 6 of the 129 deaths...

and you do realize stop and frisk never stopped, right? they still have it although they have decreased frequency (while maintaining a heavy bias towards african americans and hispanic americans). and since they started decreasing the frequency of the stops in 2011 the crime rate and murder rate has been decreasing steadily each year ("dropping from 515 in 2011 to 419 the next year, 335 in 2013 and 333 last year").

but yeah, the whole "war on cops" notion is hilarious

blahblahyoutoo
12-31-2015, 04:37 PM
You make me ****ing sick. You clearly have something against black people. What have we done to you? Did your wife or girlfriend cheated on you with a black guy? Did your mom cheated on your dad with a black guy? What's the problem? Let's us know. Maybe we can help.

Zimmerman provoked Martin then killed him. But he's the "thug".
And Zimmerman threatened his wife with a shotgun. But I don't hear anybody calling him a thug.

nope, no issues with honest, good natured black people. have a few co-workers that are black that are civilized people, not thugs like the aforementioned. the issues I have are with thugs (of any color) and this "movement" whose followers are completely ignorant of the facts.

please provide links of this provocation (and I'm sure plenty have called him names worse than "thug"), and how a provocation warrants physical assault.
also please respond to the gray and brown situations.
k thx bye.

basch152
12-31-2015, 04:59 PM
nope, no issues with honest, good natured black people. have a few co-workers that are black that are civilized people, not thugs like the aforementioned. the issues I have are with thugs (of any color) and this "movement" whose followers are completely ignorant of the facts.

please provide links of this provocation (and I'm sure plenty have called him names worse than "thug"), and how a provocation warrants physical assault.
also please respond to the gray and brown situations.
k thx bye.

It's hilarious you don't realize how racist you are.

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 04:59 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/03/19/hands-up-dont-shoot-did-not-happen-in-ferguson/

Black Lives Matter is a complete and utter fraud. Which is why I expect Lebron to support it one way, shape or form at some point.

"Yet the Department of Justice’s March 4, 2015, investigative report on the shooting of Michael Brown found federal investigators could not confirm witness accounts that Brown signaled surrender before being killed execution-style. The department’s descriptions of about 40 witness testimonies show the original claims that Brown had his hands up were not accurate."

"The DOJ has concluded Wilson did not know whether Brown was armed, acted out of self-defense and was justified in killing Brown. The majority of witnesses told federal investigators that the initial claims that Brown’s hands were up were not accurate."

Redrum187
12-31-2015, 05:00 PM
Funny, because for white people that falls under "open carry" and the 2nd Amendment. Having a gun in public is not a crime in and of itself.

I'm pretty sure pointing a gun at people (check video and 911 call) is not protected in the 2nd Amendment, White, Black, Purple.... etc, doesn't matter.

Having a gun in public is not a crime, but pointing it at people is.

Redrum187
12-31-2015, 05:08 PM
Funny, when the Clive Bundy people pointed guns at cops (big ones and lots of 'em) they weren't so quick to get all testosteroney on them. Maybe something there, maybe not, I'll just leave that out there.

Were they the exact same cops as the Tamir Rice ones? Are cops robotic machines made in a factory set with a specific default protocol or do they all have different cognitive abilities with a range of justifiable behavior within the law? Were the gathers pointing guns at random pedestrians as well as the cops? Were they in the same city/state in respect to their laws? What the hell does this have to do with Tamir Rice?

Redrum187
12-31-2015, 05:19 PM
Cops could have easily rolled up as aggressive as they did because they were trying to shield the children in the park from the deranged gunman they thought they were responding to (i.e. driving their car on the grass directly infront of Tamir Rice creating a barrier between he and the civilians they thought they were protecting).

Funny thing is all of these super liberal, anti-cop cities are the ones running most rampant with black on black gun violence. If blacks weren't out there shooting each other at astronomical rates, the cops wouldn't be running up to these scenes ready for a gunfight. Unfortunately, that is all they see in these inner urban areas and that is what they expect when they confront these people.

Bingo! Lets not talk about the Black-on-Black killings. Lets focus on the issue where fewer Blacks are being gunned down (most of the time justifiably).

People's priorities are insanely off. It makes me think of the people who thought preserving "the sanctity of [heterosexual] marriage" was the nation's biggest priority/concern as opposed to the failing economy in the 2008 and 2012 presidential elections.

blahblahyoutoo
12-31-2015, 05:29 PM
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/fact-checker/wp/2015/03/19/hands-up-dont-shoot-did-not-happen-in-ferguson/

Black Lives Matter is a complete and utter fraud. Which is why I expect Lebron to support it one way, shape or form at some point.

"Yet the Department of Justice’s March 4, 2015, investigative report on the shooting of Michael Brown found federal investigators could not confirm witness accounts that Brown signaled surrender before being killed execution-style. The department’s descriptions of about 40 witness testimonies show the original claims that Brown had his hands up were not accurate."

"The DOJ has concluded Wilson did not know whether Brown was armed, acted out of self-defense and was justified in killing Brown. The majority of witnesses told federal investigators that the initial claims that Brown’s hands were up were not accurate."

#handsupdontshoot
#blacklivesmatter

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 05:32 PM
It's hilarious you don't realize how racist you are.

FYI, blacks commit half of all homicides in the US, despite being only 1/8 of the US population. Blacks are also responsible for 40% of all violent crime aside from homicide in the US.

Those are the facts.

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 05:34 PM
Bingo! Lets not talk about the Black-on-Black killings. Lets focus on the issue where fewer Blacks are being gunned down (most of the time justifiably).

People's priorities are insanely off. It makes me think of the people who thought preserving "the sanctity of [heterosexual] marriage" was the nation's biggest priority/concern as opposed to the failing economy in the 2008 and 2012 presidential elections.

The children of homosexual couples are far more likely to suffer from mental health issues.

The failing economy is a result of the federal reserve system which is essentially a completely fraudulent system. Both are wrong. No need to choose between either.

Redrum187
12-31-2015, 05:36 PM
A 12 years old playing with a toy gun and got murdered within 2 seconds of the police cruiser pulling up to the scene and some of you still think "he's a thug who's responsible for his own death"


How about the cop that pulled up to the scene gun blazing without knowing the facts?

But I'm not surprise man... Some of you are just happy to see another young black kid dead.

Fact 1: 9-1-1 caller informs dispatcher that a kid is pointing a gun at people at a park. Caller had no way of knowing definitively if it was real, but we now know it was modified airsoft gun.

Fact 2: There were people (children as well) at the park, making for a potential dangerous scenario when considering there is no way to know the gun was a modified airsoft gun.

Fact 3: I'll only speak for the state I live in, 100% of cops are allowed to use deadly force when threatened with a firearm. I would be shocked if Ohio didn't have the same allowance.

Fact 4: Tamir Rice reached for his gun as the cop pulled up.

Fact 5: As he pulls up, the cop almost immediately shoots Tamir Rice as he sees him reaching for the gun.

Fact 6: If it weren't for A, then B would have never happened.

If it weren't for Tamir Rice pointing a gun at people in a public park, then there would not have been a 9-1-1 call. If it weren't for the 9-1-1 call, then there would not have been a cop dispatched to the park. If it weren't for Tamir Rice reaching for what appears to be a genuine (non-replica airsoft gun) firearm, the cop wouldn't have shot/killed him.

I don't think even Jesse Jackson could deny any of these facts.

So my question is, how was Tamir Rice NOT responsible for his death?

Redrum187
12-31-2015, 05:41 PM
The children of homosexual couples are far more likely to suffer from mental health issues.

The failing economy is a result of the federal reserve system which is essentially a completely fraudulent system. Both are wrong. No need to choose between either.

1.) Homosexual couples could still have and/or adopt children. This has absolutely nothing to do with "gay marriage".
2.) Assuming you're correct that children of homosexual couples are more likely to suffer from mental health (which is kind of irrelevant to say), it affects people on an exponentially lesser extent than the "fraudulent system" that is the Federal Reserve which is responsible for the economy. In essence, one ought to be a clear priority.

We all need air, water, and food; In that order. If we have no air, having all the water and food in the world is pointless.

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 05:45 PM
1.) Homosexual couples could still adopt children. This has absolutely nothing to do with "gay marriage".
2.) Assuming you're correct that children of homosexual couples are more likely to suffer from mental health (which is kind of irrelevant to say), it affects people on an astronomical lesser extent than the "fraudulent system" that is the Federal Reserve which is responsible for the economy. In essence, one ought to be a clear priority.

We all need air, water, and food; In that order. If we have no air, having all the water and food in the world is pointless.

It should be illegal for gay couples to adopt, "married" or not.

I don't consider it to be more important than the economy/federal reserve scam but I believe both are important and I support anyone who is fighting against one or both.

blahblahyoutoo
12-31-2015, 05:49 PM
It's hilarious you don't realize how racist you are.

do explain to me how you came to that conclusion based on my post. please, do tell.

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 05:50 PM
Fact 1: 9-1-1 caller informs dispatcher that a kid is pointing a gun at people at a park. Caller had no way of knowing definitively if it was real, but we now know it was modified airsoft gun.

Fact 2: There were people (children as well) at the park, making for a potential dangerous scenario when considering there is no way to know the gun was a modified airsoft gun.

Fact 3: I'll only speak for the state I live in, 100% of cops are allowed to use deadly force when threatened with a firearm. I would be shocked if Ohio didn't have the same allowance.

Fact 4: Tamir Rice reached for his gun as the cop pulled up.

Fact 5: As he pulls up, the cop almost immediately shoots Tamir Rice as he sees him reaching for the gun.

Fact 6: If it weren't for A, then B would have never happened.

If it weren't for Tamir Rice pointing a gun at people in a public park, then there would not have been a 9-1-1 call. If it weren't for the 9-1-1 call, then there would not have been a cop dispatched to the park. If it weren't Tamir Rice reaching for what appears to be a genuine (non-replica airsoft gun) firearm, the cop wouldn't have shot/killed him.

I don't think even Jesse Jackson could deny any of these facts.

So my question is, how was Tamir Rice NOT responsible for his death?

Despite his age, Tamir Rice stood 5'7" and weighed 195 lbs. He could easily have been mistaken for an adult at a quick glance, which is all the information people have from a distance.

Rice had already been warned THAT DAY that carrying a pellet gun could get him into trouble.

blahblahyoutoo
12-31-2015, 05:51 PM
Fact 1: 9-1-1 caller informs dispatcher that a kid is pointing a gun at people at a park. Caller had no way of knowing definitively if it was real, but we now know it was modified airsoft gun.

Fact 2: There were people (children as well) at the park, making for a potential dangerous scenario when considering there is no way to know the gun was a modified airsoft gun.

Fact 3: I'll only speak for the state I live in, 100% of cops are allowed to use deadly force when threatened with a firearm. I would be shocked if Ohio didn't have the same allowance.

Fact 4: Tamir Rice reached for his gun as the cop pulled up.

Fact 5: As he pulls up, the cop almost immediately shoots Tamir Rice as he sees him reaching for the gun.

Fact 6: If it weren't for A, then B would have never happened.

If it weren't for Tamir Rice pointing a gun at people in a public park, then there would not have been a 9-1-1 call. If it weren't for the 9-1-1 call, then there would not have been a cop dispatched to the park. If it weren't for Tamir Rice reaching for what appears to be a genuine (non-replica airsoft gun) firearm, the cop wouldn't have shot/killed him.

I don't think even Jesse Jackson could deny any of these facts.

So my question is, how was Tamir Rice NOT responsible for his death?

be...be... because facts be RACES!!!

C-ross12
12-31-2015, 05:52 PM
Agree - the BLM mentality of "you're either with us, or siding with the enemy" is selfish as hell. They shouldn't put negative spotlight from within their movement on A+ black role models like LeBron.

I really just wish they even remotely acknowledged the black on black violence issues that trump the cop shootings when it comes to losing young black lives over nonsense.

You really hit the nail on the head there. Its like BLM is worried about a paper cut when it's bleeding profusely out of a gun shot wound (no pun intended). Black on Black, inner city violence should absolutely be the number 1 issue to deal with.

Ironically, I believe if the black on black crime is dealt with to a significant degree, then cops shooting blacks will also go down significantly. I believe that 99%+ of cops aren't racist. What I believed has happened is cops have trained themselves to somewhat profile black people, mainly as a defense mechanism. That has without doubt led to some unfortunate circumstances, especially against black people who have done nothing wrong.

Ferguson was so disappointing to me because it was a chance to have a real discussion about the real problem in the law enforcement field today; and that's the militarization of simple law enforcement agencies. We see these cops look more and more like armies then police stations. Seeing multiple men all geared up in camo walking behind tanks going down Main street is becoming more and more of a problem. But unfortunately that doesn't quite get the ratings that a white cop shooting a black guy gets.

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 05:52 PM
If you point a gun at a park full of kids and pull a gun from your waist as the police approach, what do you think will happen?

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 05:53 PM
Acknowledging black on black crime means taking responsibility.

Blaming the cops and playing victim is far easier.

hashtagtawanabrawley

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 06:07 PM
Here's a photo of Tamir's gun:

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2015/06/tamir_rices_friend_says_he_rem.html

It does not look like a toy.

Also, Rice had been reported by witnesses as shooting at car tires and also pointing the gun at people repeatedly.

Then, he reached into his waistband after he was told to put his hands up.

Gander13SM
12-31-2015, 06:11 PM
Every empire on this earth has fallen.

mngopher35
12-31-2015, 06:15 PM
The idea that an issue shouldn't be talked about because there are bigger problems doesn't make sense to me. We have had far less deaths due to ISIS than cops in America but it's still a major issue for example.

I don't agree with all of the ways BLM handle themselves or protest but the need to raise awareness is definitely there. In our system there has long been racial profiling and discrimination against african americans from cops. Many many more African Americans get put into jail for Marijuana possession for example when statistically it is a similar number who partake in the activity (also many times used to try and paint them as thugs after the fact, see blahblah post above on that).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/06/04/the-blackwhite-marijuana-arrest-gap-in-nine-charts/

Then we get to the deaths from law enforcement, this time a 12 year old with a toy gun killed within a couple of seconds (no attempt to help after either). Even if this case isn't one that you think is worthy there are plenty to choose from and I think it is quite hard to side with the cops every time without bias honestly (same can be said the other way, cops aren't always at fault either like some claim). The thing is that even when the cops are at fault they many times will get off due to our justice system and them being friends with the prosecutors etc. In this case a municipal court judge back in June said it should go to trial but the prosecutor did everything in his power to prevent that in the process (basically the opposite of normal). I am not even saying these guys are 100% guilty but they should definitely be put to trial.

I don't know that there is a clear cut way to solve the problem but there must be something done at this point. The BLM movement may not be perfect but at least awareness of the issue has grown big time so maybe some steps can be taken to start fixing the system. It may not be the biggest issue we face but I find it very hard to not take this seriously when a large population in the U.S. (African Americans) are being openly murdered and discriminated against from people who are supposed to be there to protect (usually without punishment).

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 06:19 PM
Every empire on this earth has fallen.

George Soros is the puppetmaster behind black lives matter. He has also donated $7 billion to the likes of SPLC, La Raza and Planned Parenthood among other left-socialist organizations.

Basically, his goal is to take down the US and hand over power to the UN and World Bank.

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 06:25 PM
Something Ive noticed though, and its not a black thing either...cops shoot to kill more and more even when they don't have to...and the reason is, dead people can't testify. A dude just got killed for coming at cops with a knife from 30 feet away. They unloaded on him. For what? People get shot in the back for running away from cops. And they unload trying to kill. Cops shoot to kill because they dont want someone telling on them for being racist/dirty/hunters/etc.

Yet you have no evidence.

Tamir Rice had been pointing the airsoft gun (orange tip removed) at people that day and shooting at tires.

He also reached for the gun (very realistic looking) when the police approached.

This shooting was justifiable.

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 06:27 PM
This has always probably been happening to one degree or another but with social media, car and vest cameras and somewhat of a deterioration of the Thin Blue Line, it's coming out more and more these days. Cops are essential but the bad ones are pure ****ing evil.

Are you saying the police involved are pure evil? They shot someone who was reaching into his waistband for a very realistic looking gun. Someone who had already pointed the gun at several people and had shot the gun in public. This is not evil.

blahblahyoutoo
12-31-2015, 06:28 PM
You really hit the nail on the head there. Its like BLM is worried about a paper cut when it's bleeding profusely out of a gun shot wound (no pun intended). Black on Black, inner city violence should absolutely be the number 1 issue to deal with.

Ironically, I believe if the black on black crime is dealt with to a significant degree, then cops shooting blacks will also go down significantly. I believe that 99%+ of cops aren't racist. What I believed has happened is cops have trained themselves to somewhat profile black people, mainly as a defense mechanism. That has without doubt led to some unfortunate circumstances, especially against black people who have done nothing wrong.

Ferguson was so disappointing to me because it was a chance to have a real discussion about the real problem in the law enforcement field today; and that's the militarization of simple law enforcement agencies. We see these cops look more and more like armies then police stations. Seeing multiple men all geared up in camo walking behind tanks going down Main street is becoming more and more of a problem. But unfortunately that doesn't quite get the ratings that a white cop shooting a black guy gets.

BLM is a farce. they hold "protests" and "rallies" in university libraries, interrupt speeches, block traffic in major city roadways, but they would never do this where it's needed most- in inner city ghettos where most black lives are lost.

humans are behavioral and instinctual creatures. we profile by nature. it's not because we're racist. if people wearing green wigs were committing 95% of the crime in NYC (as blacks and hispanics do -FACT), then cops would be profiling people wearing green wigs. it's simple facts and statistics but liberals will spin it as racism.

i walk by dozens of heavily armed service men in fatigues and rifles every work day. i've been "stopped and frisked". it doesn't bother me one bit.
the idiots that get shot are the ones that don't comply, and worse, attack the cop. someone should show these idiots Chris Rock's clip on how to act when pulled over by a cop if you don't want to get shot.

blahblahyoutoo
12-31-2015, 06:30 PM
Every empire on this earth has fallen.

ours will fall soon because we're being divided from within.

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 06:44 PM
The idea that an issue shouldn't be talked about because there are bigger problems doesn't make sense to me. We have had far less deaths due to ISIS than cops in America but it's still a major issue for example.

I don't agree with all of the ways BLM handle themselves or protest but the need to raise awareness is definitely there. In our system there has long been racial profiling and discrimination against african americans from cops. Many many more African Americans get put into jail for Marijuana possession for example when statistically it is a similar number who partake in the activity (also many times used to try and paint them as thugs after the fact, see blahblah post above on that).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/06/04/the-blackwhite-marijuana-arrest-gap-in-nine-charts/

Then we get to the deaths from law enforcement, this time a 12 year old with a toy gun killed within a couple of seconds (no attempt to help after either). Even if this case isn't one that you think is worthy there are plenty to choose from and I think it is quite hard to side with the cops every time without bias honestly (same can be said the other way, cops aren't always at fault either like some claim). The thing is that even when the cops are at fault they many times will get off due to our justice system and them being friends with the prosecutors etc. In this case a municipal court judge back in June said it should go to trial but the prosecutor did everything in his power to prevent that in the process (basically the opposite of normal). I am not even saying these guys are 100% guilty but they should definitely be put to trial.

I don't know that there is a clear cut way to solve the problem but there must be something done at this point. The BLM movement may not be perfect but at least awareness of the issue has grown big time so maybe some steps can be taken to start fixing the system. It may not be the biggest issue we face but I find it very hard to not take this seriously when a large population in the U.S. (African Americans) are being openly murdered and discriminated against from people who are supposed to be there to protect (usually without punishment).

BLM is based upon a set of false premises:

1. that Michael Brown was innocent. He clearly wasn't. He grabbed for an officer's gun with the clear intent of killing him. He did not put his hands up. That is a complete and utter lie.

2. Police target blacks. The facts are that blacks, while 1/8 of the US population, are responsible for HALF of all US homicides. Blacks are also responsible for 40% of all violent crime.

Blacks are not "targeted or profiled." They commit far more crimes, esp. violent crime than whites or asians. They come into contact with the police because they engage in crime at the highest rate.

This is not an issue of racism. This is an issue of police responding to crime reports.

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 06:45 PM
ours will fall soon because we're being divided from within.

Sad, but true. You have the neo-nazi right extremists movement on one side, and white and black liberals funded by Soros on the left.

Saddletramp
12-31-2015, 06:50 PM
Are you saying the police involved are pure evil? They shot someone who was reaching into his waistband for a very realistic looking gun. Someone who had already pointed the gun at several people and had shot the gun in public. This is not evil.

I didn't say they were. Stop putting words in my mouth.

Saddletramp
12-31-2015, 06:55 PM
BLM is a farce. they hold "protests" and "rallies" in university libraries, interrupt speeches, block traffic in major city roadways, but they would never do this where it's needed most- in inner city ghettos where most black lives are lost.

humans are behavioral and instinctual creatures. we profile by nature. it's not because we're racist. if people wearing green wigs were committing 95% of the crime in NYC (as blacks and hispanics do -FACT), then cops would be profiling people wearing green wigs. it's simple facts and statistics but liberals will spin it as racism.

i walk by dozens of heavily armed service men in fatigues and rifles every work day. i've been "stopped and frisked". it doesn't bother me one bit.
the idiots that get shot are the ones that don't comply, and worse, attack the cop. someone should show these idiots Chris Rock's clip on how to act when pulled over by a cop if you don't want to get shot.

The bolder there is not a fact. Black kid gets caught with a joint? CRIME. Wall Street ****s over the economy of the whole country? TAX PAYER BAILOUT. One guy (from what I remember) went to jail for that financial crisis so none of those crimes count. But that's way worse than some minorites smoking a plant.


White privledge has many awesome rewards. I'm assuming you know that just as well as anybody.

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 06:58 PM
The idea that an issue shouldn't be talked about because there are bigger problems doesn't make sense to me. We have had far less deaths due to ISIS than cops in America but it's still a major issue for example.

I don't agree with all of the ways BLM handle themselves or protest but the need to raise awareness is definitely there. In our system there has long been racial profiling and discrimination against african americans from cops. Many many more African Americans get put into jail for Marijuana possession for example when statistically it is a similar number who partake in the activity (also many times used to try and paint them as thugs after the fact, see blahblah post above on that).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/06/04/the-blackwhite-marijuana-arrest-gap-in-nine-charts/

Then we get to the deaths from law enforcement, this time a 12 year old with a toy gun killed within a couple of seconds (no attempt to help after either). Even if this case isn't one that you think is worthy there are plenty to choose from and I think it is quite hard to side with the cops every time without bias honestly (same can be said the other way, cops aren't always at fault either like some claim). The thing is that even when the cops are at fault they many times will get off due to our justice system and them being friends with the prosecutors etc. In this case a municipal court judge back in June said it should go to trial but the prosecutor did everything in his power to prevent that in the process (basically the opposite of normal). I am not even saying these guys are 100% guilty but they should definitely be put to trial.

I don't know that there is a clear cut way to solve the problem but there must be something done at this point. The BLM movement may not be perfect but at least awareness of the issue has grown big time so maybe some steps can be taken to start fixing the system. It may not be the biggest issue we face but I find it very hard to not take this seriously when a large population in the U.S. (African Americans) are being openly murdered and discriminated against from people who are supposed to be there to protect (usually without punishment).

You should pull a lebron and get your facts straight before speaking:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/21/police-kill-more-whites-than-blacks-but-minority-d/?page=all

1 in 60,000 blacks will be killed by a police officer. 1 in 200,000 whites will be killed by a police officer. However, blacks commit half of all homicides and 40% of all violent crime.

So, blacks are 3X as likely to be killed by a cop. However, blacks commit 3X to 4X as many violent crimes as whites.

Bottom line: Blacks are far more likely to commit violent crimes and therefore far more likely to get killed and shot by cops.

The solution is simple: stop killing people and committing violent crimes and the police won't bother you.

elledaddy
12-31-2015, 06:58 PM
Man this thread is great. Thank you guys so much for this.
Thank you G S W
Thank you Blahblahyoutoo
Thank you kobe4thewinbang
And thank you my fellow knicks fan D-lethal

Thank you gentlemen for the knowledge

mngopher35
12-31-2015, 07:02 PM
BLM is based upon a set of false premises:

1. that Michael Brown was innocent. He clearly wasn't. He grabbed for an officer's gun with the clear intent of killing him. He did not put his hands up. That is a complete and utter lie.

2. Police target blacks. The facts are that blacks, while 1/8 of the US population, are responsible for HALF of all US homicides. Blacks are also responsible for 40% of all violent crime.

Blacks are not "targeted or profiled." They commit far more crimes, esp. violent crime than whites or asians. They come into contact with the police because they engage in crime at the highest rate.

This is not an issue of racism. This is an issue of police responding to crime reports.

Just because blacks commit more crimes does not mean that it is ok to profile every African American as criminal, that is racism. As stated before even when you have similar amounts of whites and African Americans doing an illegal activity (recreational marijuana) there is a huge huge gap in who actually gets convicted. On top of this when there is probable cause to believe a cop was in the wrong it gets swept under the rug due to the lack of integrity in the justice system (many prosecutors work with and are friends with the cops).

This is an issue with racism/profiling within the police force, it has actually been an issue for a long time. Since BLM formed it has gotten much more publicity and people talking about change though. I don't think they are always in the right with their actions but it has at least gotten many people to wake up and call for change.

BTW I believe most cops are good people and try their best to do their job. It is a smaller percentage that do many of the things we are talking about here (just like it is a smaller percentage of black people killing than black people being good citizens).

mngopher35
12-31-2015, 07:09 PM
You should pull a lebron and get your facts straight before speaking:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/apr/21/police-kill-more-whites-than-blacks-but-minority-d/?page=all

1 in 60,000 blacks will be killed by a police officer. 1 in 200,000 whites will be killed by a police officer. However, blacks commit half of all homicides and 40% of all violent crime.

So, blacks are 3X as likely to be killed by a cop. However, blacks commit 3X to 4X as many violent crimes as whites.

Bottom line: Blacks are far more likely to commit violent crimes and therefore far more likely to get killed and shot by cops.

The solution is simple: stop killing people and committing violent crimes and the police won't bother you.

The thing is in many (most?) of these cases the African American in question actually never killed anyone or commited violent crimes so they don't fit the bill. If you have info on the number killed by cops without violent crimes commited it would actually apply.

What you are showing is a general statistic which if used by the cops to make their decisions would be racist/profiling. Blacks might be more likely to commit violent crimes, but to judge the innocent people on that standard is completely unfair.

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 07:09 PM
Just because blacks commit more crimes does not mean that it is ok to profile every African American as criminal, that is racism. As stated before even when you have similar amounts of whites and African Americans doing an illegal activity (recreational marijuana) there is a huge huge gap in who actually gets convicted. On top of this when there is probable cause to believe a cop was in the wrong it gets swept under the rug due to the lack of integrity in the justice system (many prosecutors work with and are friends with the cops).

This is an issue with racism/profiling within the police force, it has actually been an issue for a long time. Since BLM formed it has gotten much more publicity and people talking about change though. I don't think they are always in the right with their actions but it has at least gotten many people to wake up and call for change.

BTW I believe most cops are good people and try their best to do their job. It is a smaller percentage that do many of the things we are talking about here (just like it is a smaller percentage of black people killing than black people being good citizens).

Last I checked, BLM wasn't complaining about marijuana conviction rates, you are.

Here are the facts:

1. BLM is predicated upon a false premise. Namely, the hoax and fabrication that Michael Brown "put his hands up." He did the exact opposite. He tried to take a police officer's gun to try to kill him. The officer defended himself and got shot and killed.

This is BLM's version of "racism" and "racial profiling" as you call it.

2. Blacks and whites are killed by police in exact proportion to their rate of violent crime. There is no "profiling." The police respond to reports of violent crime. And the majority of those reports are by blacks.

3. Police do not have to "profile" Blacks as criminals. It is common knowledge that blacks commit violent crimes at a far higher rate than any other population. Blacks, whites, asians, hispanics and native americans know this.

This is not racism, it's a fact. It's like saying buying chocolate ice cream with almond slices is "profiling" ice cream as delicious.

It's really amazing how much stupidity that some people are capable of.

Next thing you know, people will be saying it's "profiling" to call water wet.

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 07:11 PM
The thing is in many (most?) of these cases the African American in question actually never killed anyone or commited violent crimes so they don't fit the bill. If you have info on the number killed by cops without violent crimes commited it would actually apply.

What you are showing is a general statistic which if used by the cops to make their decisions would be racist/profiling. Black males might be more likely to commit violent crimes, but to judge the innocent people on that standard is completely unfair.

Seriously, you are out of your mind. If you honestly believe most people accused of homicide are falsely accused, you're an idiot.

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 07:12 PM
Just because blacks commit more crimes does not mean that it is ok to profile every African American as criminal, that is racism. As stated before even when you have similar amounts of whites and African Americans doing an illegal activity (recreational marijuana) there is a huge huge gap in who actually gets convicted. On top of this when there is probable cause to believe a cop was in the wrong it gets swept under the rug due to the lack of integrity in the justice system (many prosecutors work with and are friends with the cops).

This is an issue with racism/profiling within the police force, it has actually been an issue for a long time. Since BLM formed it has gotten much more publicity and people talking about change though. I don't think they are always in the right with their actions but it has at least gotten many people to wake up and call for change.

BTW I believe most cops are good people and try their best to do their job. It is a smaller percentage that do many of the things we are talking about here (just like it is a smaller percentage of black people killing than black people being good citizens).

What evidence do you have that the police profile every African American as a criminal?

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 07:14 PM
MNgopher please follow the example of lebron. He stays silent when he has no facts. I suggest you do the same.

blahblahyoutoo
12-31-2015, 07:19 PM
The bolder there is not a fact. Black kid gets caught with a joint? CRIME. Wall Street ****s over the economy of the whole country? TAX PAYER BAILOUT. One guy (from what I remember) went to jail for that financial crisis so none of those crimes count. But that's way worse than some minorites smoking a plant.


White privledge has many awesome rewards. I'm assuming you know that just as well as anybody.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/06/nypd-report-details-crime_n_1862771.html


97 percent of all shooting suspects in the city were black or Latino.
ha derp, derp.

mngopher35
12-31-2015, 07:20 PM
Last I checked, BLM wasn't complaining about marijuana conviction rates, you are.

Here are the facts:

1. BLM is predicated upon a false premise. Namely, the hoax and fabrication that Michael Brown "put his hands up." He did the exact opposite. He tried to take a police officer's gun to try to kill him. The officer defended himself and got shot and killed.

This is BLM's version of "racism" and "racial profiling" as you call it.

2. Blacks and whites are killed by police in exact proportion to their rate of violent crime. There is no "profiling." The police respond to reports of violent crime. And the majority of those reports are by blacks.

3. Police do not have to "profile" Blacks as criminals. It is common knowledge that blacks commit violent crimes at a far higher rate than any other population. Blacks, whites, asians, hispanics and native americans know this.

This is not racism, it's a fact. It's like saying buying chocolate ice cream with almond slices is "profiling" ice cream as delicious.

It's really amazing how much stupidity that some people are capable of.

Next thing you know, people will be saying it's "profiling" to call water wet.

They are complaining about racism/profiling from cops and that helps prove they have a point. You have been trying to claim it doesn't happen when it clearly does (which is why you want to throw it aside).

1. I have said time and time again I don't agree with everything they do. Just because they are sometimes wrong and sometimes right doesn't change that they have created awareness about an issue that clearly needs it.

2. Covered in my last post but again many times these people did not commit violent crimes so that is irrellevant to these cases.

3. When/if police choose to act on what you just said and treat african americans differently due to what you call "common knowledge" then it absolutely is racial profiling. In fact it's basically the definition.

I agree that it is a fact supported by those statistics. To generalize African Americans as a whole like this is when the problem arises (you seem to be doing exactly that within your posts).

Feel free to call me stupid for not agreeing with your opinions, that is usually the best way to discuss topics...

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 07:25 PM
They are complaining about racism/profiling from cops and that helps prove they have a point. You have been trying to claim it doesn't happen when it clearly does (which is why you want to throw it aside).

1. I have said time and time again I don't agree with everything they do. Just because they are sometimes wrong and sometimes right doesn't change that they have created awareness about an issue that clearly needs it.

2. Covered in my last post but again many times these people did not commit violent crimes so that is irrellevant to these cases.

3. When/if police choose to act on what you just said and treat african americans differently due to what you call "common knowledge" then it absolutely is racial profiling. In fact it's basically the definition.

I agree that it is a fact supported by those statistics. To generalize African Americans as a whole like this is when the problem arises (you seem to be doing exactly that within your posts).

Feel free to call me stupid for not agreeing with your opinions, that is usually the best way to discuss topics...

I'm not calling you stupid, I called you an idiot.

You're an idiot because you've forwarded a long list of accusations without the slightest shred of evidence.

Fewer blacks are killed by police officers even though Blacks commit homicide and violent crimes at a 300% to 400% rate than the general population.

The solution is simple. When blacks stop killing people and committing violent crime at a rate 300X to 400X the rate of the general population, they'll have fewer problems with police.

mngopher35
12-31-2015, 07:26 PM
Seriously, you are out of your mind. If you honestly believe most people accused of homicide are falsely accused, you're an idiot.

I am out of my mind for something I never said?

I am talking about the cases of Trayvon and Tamir mostly but there have been plenty similar ones in the news etc. I am saying that these high profile cases where BLM usually gets involved and we hear in the news is when police kill an african american who hasn't commited murder/violent crimes.

Again those stats you used don't touch on this at all and are irrelevant to the types of cases we are discussing. Again

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 07:27 PM
MNgother, stop talking out of your ***.

The bottom line is that blacks are responsible for their own problems. You're scapegoating the cops as a distraction and diversion from this simple fact.

mngopher35
12-31-2015, 07:28 PM
What evidence do you have that the police profile every African American as a criminal?

WTF again I never said that. If you want some evidence that this exists I provided a clear example with the Marijuana use and convictions link but you brushed it aside because it doesn't fit your agenda.

elledaddy
12-31-2015, 07:28 PM
They are complaining about racism/profiling from cops and that helps prove they have a point. You have been trying to claim it doesn't happen when it clearly does (which is why you want to throw it aside).

1. I have said time and time again I don't agree with everything they do. Just because they are sometimes wrong and sometimes right doesn't change that they have created awareness about an issue that clearly needs it.

2. Covered in my last post but again many times these people did not commit violent crimes so that is irrellevant to these cases.

3. When/if police choose to act on what you just said and treat african americans differently due to what you call "common knowledge" then it absolutely is racial profiling. In fact it's basically the definition.

I agree that it is a fact supported by those statistics. To generalize African Americans as a whole like this is when the problem arises (you seem to be doing exactly that within your posts).

Feel free to call me stupid for not agreeing with your opinions, that is usually the best way to discuss topics...

Just stop........ Just gracefully tap out of the discussion

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 07:30 PM
I am out of my mind for something I never said?

I am talking about the cases of Trayvon and Tamir mostly but there have been plenty similar ones in the news etc. I am saying that these high profile cases where BLM usually gets involved and we hear in the news is when police kill an african american who hasn't commited murder/violent crimes.

Again those stats you used don't touch on this at all and are irrelevant to the types of cases we are discussing. Again

How is the Trayvon case an example of racial profiling by cops? Seriously, your mind is so jumbled right now, you're better off just taking a break.

Tamir had been pointing a very realistic looking airsoft at multiple people in a public space and had shot the gun several times at automobiles as well.

He approached the police and reached into his waistband for the gun before he was shot.

In any event, neither case demonstrates that the police consider all blacks to be criminals, which is beyond idiotic.

blahblahyoutoo
12-31-2015, 07:30 PM
A 12 years old playing with a toy gun and got murdered within 2 seconds of the police cruiser pulling up to the scene and some of you still think "he's a thug who's responsible for his own death"


How about the cop that pulled up to the scene gun blazing without knowing the facts?

But I'm not surprise man... Some of you are just happy to see another young black kid dead.

the only fact he needed to know was that the boy was drawing/aiming his weapon at an officer.
i see you're still in this thread. feel free to respond to the other question i axed you in another post at your leisure. take your time to formulate a well written, factual, logical response.

mngopher35
12-31-2015, 07:31 PM
MNgopher please follow the example of lebron. He stays silent when he has no facts. I suggest you do the same.

Much of what we are discussing is opinion and the facts I brought were immediately brushed aside anyways. Maybe you should stick with the discussion more instead of side rants and jabs...

mngopher35
12-31-2015, 07:36 PM
How is the Trayvon case an example of racial profiling by cops? Seriously, your mind is so jumbled right now, you're better off just taking a break.

Tamir had been pointing a very realistic looking airsoft at multiple people in a public space and had shot the gun several times at automobiles as well.

He approached the police and reached into his waistband for the gun before he was shot.

In any event, neither case demonstrates that the police consider all blacks to be criminals, which is beyond idiotic.

I don't know specifically in this case if there was and neither do you. What we do know is that cases of African Americans who haven't committed these violent acts you keep speaking of continues to happen and usually without punishment.

I stated long ago that most police aren't like this. Keep calling me an idiot for things I never said.

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 07:37 PM
Much of what we are discussing is opinion and the facts I brought were immediately brushed aside anyways. Maybe you should stick with the discussion more instead of side rants and jabs...

Wrong. ALL of what YOU are discussing are opinions totally unsupported by the facts. Opinions unsupported by facts are called lies.

I am discussing facts backed by eyewitness testimony under oath and indisputable forensic evidence.

Your opinions are being "brushed aside" because you have no facts. I brought facts, you brought idiocy.

The claim that all police profile all blacks as criminals is idiotic. You are willingly presenting opinions without facts. In other words, you are lying.

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 07:38 PM
I don't know specifically in this case if there was and neither do you. What we do know is that cases of African Americans who haven't committed these violent acts you keep speaking of continues to happen and usually without punishment.

I stated long ago that most police aren't like this. Keep calling me an idiot for things I never said.

You're an idiot because you are citing Trayvon Martin as an example of racial profiling by the police. If you are too stupid to figure out that the two cases are totally unrelated, no one can help you.

Then again, you cited marijuana convictions as evidence that cops murder blacks indiscriminately, so whatever.

mngopher35
12-31-2015, 07:38 PM
Just stop........ Just gracefully tap out of the discussion

If you care to discuss feel free but from GSW I have got nothing but irrelevant info, ignoring and not responding to any points made, words put in my mouth, and name calling. I am all for discussion but it seems that in here it is just state your opinion and start going at any one who disagrees (and not in a debate type sense, more attacking style).

mngopher35
12-31-2015, 07:45 PM
You're an idiot because you are citing Trayvon Martin as an example of racial profiling by the police. If you are too stupid to figure out that the two cases are totally unrelated, no one can help you.

Then again, you cited marijuana convictions as evidence that cops murder blacks indiscriminately, so whatever.

If you can show me where I said that go ahead. Otherwise this is another example of you putting words in my mouth.

Again I have said that racial profiling does exist and is an issue (not in one specific case, potentially but we don't know). I backed this up. I also said that for the most part cops are good and do not do this, it is just a small percent. Lastly I don't agree with everything BLM does but that doesn't mean I don't think they have any reason for their actions.

Hope that helps, maybe re-read my posts from now on.

mngopher35
12-31-2015, 07:50 PM
Wrong. ALL of what YOU are discussing are opinions totally unsupported by the facts. Opinions unsupported by facts are called lies.

I am discussing facts backed by eyewitness testimony under oath and indisputable forensic evidence.

Your opinions are being "brushed aside" because you have no facts. I brought facts, you brought idiocy.

The claim that all police profile all blacks as criminals is idiotic. You are willingly presenting opinions without facts. In other words, you are lying.

LOL you have done nothing but bring irrelevent issues up, name call, put words in my mouth (basically every post) and refuse to discuss points as I bring them up (usually pick a small point and blow it into something I never said).

One more time so maybe you get it NO WAY DO I THINK ALL POLICE PROFILE AFRICAN AMERICANS.

elledaddy
12-31-2015, 07:50 PM
If you care to discuss feel free but from GSW I have got nothing but irrelevant info, ignoring and not responding to any points made, words put in my mouth, and name calling. I am all for discussion but it seems that in here it is just state your opinion and start going at any one who disagrees (and not in a debate type sense, more attacking style).

His agenda is clear. Your arguments/points are falling on deaf ears. It's no difference between his current argument and when ppl talk eye test vs advanced stats numbers in sports. Anyone can make numbers/certain statistics speak to whatever point they are pushing. Save your argument for someone who is atleast somewhat open minded.

mngopher35
12-31-2015, 07:52 PM
His agenda is clear. Your arguments/points are falling on deaf ears. It's no difference between his current argument and when ppl talk eye test vs advanced stats numbers in sports. Anyone can make numbers/certain statistics speak to whatever point they are pushing. Save your argument for someone who is atleast somewhat open minded.

Ahhh I see what you were saying. I have been thinking the same thing so you are probably right. NBA forum probably wasn't the best place anyways.

cmellofan15
12-31-2015, 07:56 PM
Wrong. ALL of what YOU are discussing are opinions totally unsupported by the facts. Opinions unsupported by facts are called lies.

I am discussing facts backed by eyewitness testimony under oath and indisputable forensic evidence.

Your opinions are being "brushed aside" because you have no facts. I brought facts, you brought idiocy.

The claim that all police profile all blacks as criminals is idiotic. You are willingly presenting opinions without facts. In other words, you are lying.

where did you read this in the thread? you are making stuff up and trying to sensationalize what he's saying when he's said nothing of the sort. In other words, you are lying. lmao try reading next time bud.

Redrum187
12-31-2015, 07:58 PM
Just because blacks commit more crimes does not mean that it is ok to profile every African American as criminal, that is racism. As stated before even when you have similar amounts of whites and African Americans doing an illegal activity (recreational marijuana) there is a huge huge gap in who actually gets convicted. On top of this when there is probable cause to believe a cop was in the wrong it gets swept under the rug due to the lack of integrity in the justice system (many prosecutors work with and are friends with the cops).

Giving you the benefit of the doubt, the Tamir Rice incident has absolutely NOTHING to do with it as he was within his jurisdiction to do what he did. Attack the court system, not the majority of innocent cops who unfortunately have to justifiably end someone's life in an effort to save others as well as himself.

The hypocrisy I see is this:

Black Lives Matter: It's not okay to lump all Black people as the thugs and criminals that the statistics show.

Rational human-being: That's true, not all Black people commit crimes. It's unfair to assume all Blacks are up to no good when seen on the street by anyone, especially cops.

Black Lives Matter: Cops racially discriminate against all Black people. They would rather shoot and kill a Black person than a White person. Ignore the guilty conduct of Tamir Rice and realize he was 12 years old and he was Black. Black lives matter.

Rational human-being: Umm.. you're lumping all cops as the same now? You think more often than not, cops go against what is in their jurisdiction and MURDER Black people unjustifiably? How the hell is Tamir Rice not responsible for his own death?

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 08:02 PM
Just because blacks commit more crimes does not mean that it is ok to profile every African American as criminal, that is racism.

Yes, obviously, all cops profile all blacks as criminals.

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 08:06 PM
Giving you the benefit of the doubt, the Tamir Rice incident has absolutely NOTHING to do with it as he was within his jurisdiction to do what he did. Attack the court system, not the majority of innocent cops who unfortunately have to justifiably end someone's life in an effort to save others as well as himself.

The hypocrisy I see is this:

Black Lives Matter: It's not okay to lump all Black people as the thugs and criminals that the statistics show.

Rational human-being: That's true, not all Black people commit crimes. It's unfair to assume all Blacks are up to no good when seen on the street by anyone, especially cops.

Black Lives Matter: Cops racially discriminate against all Black people. They would rather shoot and kill a Black person than a White person. Ignore the guilty conduct of Tamir Rice and realize he was 12 years old and he was Black. Black lives matter.

Rational human-being: Umm.. you're lumping all cops as the same now? You think more often than not, cops go against what is in their jurisdiction and MURDER Black people unjustifiably? How the hell is Tamir Rice not responsible for his own death?

Excellent point. BLM assumes all cops are guilty and racist, and assume that every black person is innocent.

It's beyond idiocy. The facts are irrelevant.

Where was the outrage when Al Sharpton perpetrated the Tawana Brawley fraud?

Where is the outrage over all of the dead blacks at the hands of fellow blacks?

Where is the outrage by feminists all of the women, black and white raped by black men?

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 08:08 PM
LOL you have done nothing but bring irrelevent issues up, name call, put words in my mouth (basically every post) and refuse to discuss points as I bring them up (usually pick a small point and blow it into something I never said).

One more time so maybe you get it NO WAY DO I THINK ALL POLICE PROFILE AFRICAN AMERICANS.
Your exact words:


"Just because blacks commit more crimes does not mean that it is ok to profile every African American as criminal, that is racism."

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 08:09 PM
Much of what we are discussing is opinion and the facts I brought were immediately brushed aside anyways. Maybe you should stick with the discussion more instead of side rants and jabs...

You have not brought a single fact into this discussion at any point in time. Just sayin'

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 08:11 PM
If you can show me where I said that go ahead. Otherwise this is another example of you putting words in my mouth.

Again I have said that racial profiling does exist and is an issue (not in one specific case, potentially but we don't know). I backed this up. I also said that for the most part cops are good and do not do this, it is just a small percent. Lastly I don't agree with everything BLM does but that doesn't mean I don't think they have any reason for their actions.

Hope that helps, maybe re-read my posts from now on.

No, lol, you did not "back this up." You have no evidence of racial profiling by police. None.

Instead you stated (without a shred of evidence) that all blacks are profiled (by some unnamed group--obviously the police by implication).

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 08:13 PM
The real issue here is that tamir drew a realistic looking gun from his waistband and was shot by a police officer in self defense. That's all there is to it.

Any inference of racism or racial profiling is idiotic. Which of course doesn't prevent mngopher from trying to do so (and than backtracking and then trying to accuse all officers of racial profiling, and the backtracking, etc.)

Redrum187
12-31-2015, 08:14 PM
I am out of my mind for something I never said?

I am talking about the cases of Trayvon and Tamir mostly but there have been plenty similar ones in the news etc. I am saying that these high profile cases where BLM usually gets involved and we hear in the news is when police kill an african american who hasn't commited murder/violent crimes.

Again those stats you used don't touch on this at all and are irrelevant to the types of cases we are discussing. Again

What is your point in stating that the Black people (justifiably) killed by the Cops have never killed anyone? Does it mean they weren't in the wrong prior to being killed? No, they were wrong (in the majority of cases and in the Tamir Rice case) and the Cops were justified.

I think G_S_W is quite insane in all honesty, but I have to actually agree that statistics and psychology have a huge part to play.

As stated previously, if 95% of people wearing green wigs killed people for the past 500 years, society would have a predisposition to be more cautious around people with green wigs. This doesn't give Cops jurisdiction to randomly shoot and kill INNOCENT people wearing green wigs. However, if a person with a green wig had a gun in his or her waist, reached for it as the cop was approaching, how can anyone blame the cop for thinking the green wig person is going to get his gun and shoot him? Even if that particular person in a green wig has never killed anyone, that does nothing to the Cop's psyche.

Saddletramp
12-31-2015, 08:15 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/06/nypd-report-details-crime_n_1862771.html


ha derp, derp.

So, is it shooting suspects, crimes committed or what?

Actually, never mind. If you think minorities aren't targeted more simply for the color of their skin, then we have nothing to discuss.

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 08:16 PM
Black Lives Matter: It's not okay to lump all Black people as the thugs and criminals that the statistics show.

Rational human-being: That's true, not all Black people commit crimes. It's unfair to assume all Blacks are up to no good when seen on the street by anyone, especially cops.

Black Lives Matter: Cops racially discriminate against all Black people. They would rather shoot and kill a Black person than a White person. Ignore the guilty conduct of Tamir Rice and realize he was 12 years old and he was Black. Black lives matter.

Rational human-being: Umm.. you're lumping all cops as the same now? You think more often than not, cops go against what is in their jurisdiction and MURDER Black people unjustifiably? How the hell is Tamir Rice not responsible for his own death?

Actually, BLM is predicated upon a total hoax and fabrication. Michael Brown was not innocent. He attempted to murder a police officer and he was shot and killed by an officer in self defense.

No one in this thread has acknowledged this simple and indisputable fact.

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 08:18 PM
So, is it shooting suspects, crimes committed or what?

Actually, never mind. If you think minorities aren't targeted more simply for the color of their skin, then we have nothing to discuss.

But you have no evidence that minorities are targeted for the color of their skin. Where's your evidence, much less proof of this?

When I say Michael Brown was NOT innocent, but attempted to reach for an officer's gun in order to kill him, and was shot by a cop in self defense, I can offer proof of my claim.

You are simply talking out of your ---.

Saddletramp
12-31-2015, 08:20 PM
MNgother, stop talking out of your ***.

The bottom line is that blacks are responsible for their own problems. You're scapegoating the cops as a distraction and diversion from this simple fact.

Wow. Thought you were pretty sheltered, now I know it.


Happy New Years, guys.

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 08:23 PM
Wow. Thought you were pretty sheltered, now I know it.


Happy New Years, guys.

So, obviously, black people's problems are killed by cops who profile all blacks as criminals and shoot them indiscriminately.

And way to back up your opinions (ie lies) with facts. Oh, you don't have any facts.

Ducking the question = sound argument. Well played.

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 08:25 PM
Wow. Thought you were pretty sheltered, now I know it.


Happy New Years, guys.

Where is your evidence that minorities are targeted for the color of their skin?

BTW, whites are "minorities" in numerous cities in the US.

mngopher35
12-31-2015, 08:25 PM
Yes, obviously, all cops profile all blacks as criminals.

I never said all cops do this, I was making a statement in response to one of your points. You kept bringing up the stats of how many black people are responsible for homicides and I am saying if cops use that info in the future to make generalizations it becomes racist.

I don't think most do that, but I do think it happens.

Saddletramp
12-31-2015, 08:25 PM
But you have no evidence that minorities are targeted for the color of their skin. Where's your evidence, much less proof of this?

When I say Michael Brown was NOT innocent, but attempted to reach for an officer's gun in order to kill him, and was shot by a cop in self defense, I can offer proof of my claim.

You are simply talking out of your ---.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I've heard of racism deniers but thank god I don't interact with any of them in real life. Holy ****.

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 08:27 PM
What is your point in stating that the Black people (justifiably) killed by the Cops have never killed anyone? Does it mean they weren't in the wrong prior to being killed? No, they were wrong (in the majority of cases and in the Tamir Rice case) and the Cops were justified.

I think G_S_W is quite insane in all honesty, but I have to actually agree that statistics and psychology have a huge part to play.

As stated previously, if 95% of people wearing green wigs killed people for the past 500 years, society would have a predisposition to be more cautious around people with green wigs. This doesn't give Cops jurisdiction to randomly shoot and kill INNOCENT people wearing green wigs. However, if a person with a green wig had a gun in his or her waist, reached for it as the cop was approaching, how can anyone blame the cop for thinking the green wig person is going to get his gun and shoot him? Even if that particular person in a green wig has never killed anyone, that does nothing to the Cop's psyche.

Posting facts and evidence = "insanity." Brilliant argument.

Look up ad hominem sometime, eh?

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 08:30 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I've heard of racism deniers but thank god I don't interact with any of them in real life. Holy ****.

This is the THIRD time I'm asking this question: where is your evidence that minorities are targeted on the basis of skin color?

Tamir was "targeted" because he had been pointing a realistic looking gun at multiple people and shooting the gun at automobiles. His skin color had nothing to do with it.

Again, for the FOURTH TIME produce your evidence that blacks are "targeted."

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 08:36 PM
I never said all cops do this, I was making a statement in response to one of your points. You kept bringing up the stats of how many black people are responsible for homicides and I am saying if cops use that info in the future to make generalizations it becomes racist.

I don't think most do that, but I do think it happens.

Finally, you admit that cops don't engage in racial profiling, because you have no facts to support the claim.

What's the point in this hypothetical then?

Tamir was shot in self defense. It has nothing to do with race. If he hadn't been shooting at automobies, and pointing his realistic airsoft at people, and hadn't reached for it while approaching the police, he would still be alive.

What do any of those facts have to do with race? Nothing.

The fact of the matter is, it's common sense to recognize that blacks commit crimes at a far higher rate than any other population in the US. It's common sense and common knowledge, not racism.

mngopher35
12-31-2015, 08:36 PM
Giving you the benefit of the doubt, the Tamir Rice incident has absolutely NOTHING to do with it as he was within his jurisdiction to do what he did. Attack the court system, not the majority of innocent cops who unfortunately have to justifiably end someone's life in an effort to save others as well as himself.

The hypocrisy I see is this:

Black Lives Matter: It's not okay to lump all Black people as the thugs and criminals that the statistics show.

Rational human-being: That's true, not all Black people commit crimes. It's unfair to assume all Blacks are up to no good when seen on the street by anyone, especially cops.

Black Lives Matter: Cops racially discriminate against all Black people. They would rather shoot and kill a Black person than a White person. Ignore the guilty conduct of Tamir Rice and realize he was 12 years old and he was Black. Black lives matter.

Rational human-being: Umm.. you're lumping all cops as the same now? You think more often than not, cops go against what is in their jurisdiction and MURDER Black people unjustifiably? How the hell is Tamir Rice not responsible for his own death?

I totally agree about that hypocrisy and think it happens a lot in other issues as well (where people need to realize it is the minority causing problems not an entire group of people).

I don't see the rice case quite as easy as you seem to but I will say I do have an issue with the justice system here as much as the cops involved as you said. I honestly am not completely sure if they were in the wrong or not but the prosecutors job is to get it to trial and he was basically doing the opposite (providing written statement so they didn't have to be cross examined, his use of media etc). If you have some in depth info or case for this and want to make a point I would love to hear it though, there definitely could be more to the story than I know.

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 08:42 PM
I totally agree about that hypocrisy and think it happens a lot in other issues as well (where people need to realize it is the minority causing problems not an entire group of people).

I don't see the rice case quite as easy as you seem to but I will say I do have an issue with the justice system here as much as the cops involved as you said. I honestly am not completely sure if they were in the wrong or not but the prosecutors job is to get it to trial and he was basically doing the opposite (providing written statement so they didn't have to be cross examined, his use of media etc). If you have some in depth info or case for this and want to make a point I would love to hear it though, there definitely could be more to the story than I know.

It is definitely correct that most blacks are law abiding, as are most people of all races.

Having said that, the crime rates among black males in their mid teens to late 20's is astronomically higher than it is for any other group. And crime rates across the board for blacks generally speaking regardless of age is far higher.

Therefore, middle aged blacks and female blacks also commit crime at a far higher rate than whites or other groups of similar age or gender.

Humans are hardwired to be on the alert for danger. Whenever there is relevant information that could potentially protect them from harm, they will utilize it.

This is simply the human brain working to protect us from danger--it has nothing to do with "racism" per se.

Saddletramp
12-31-2015, 08:49 PM
This is the THIRD time I'm asking this question: where is your evidence that minorities are targeted on the basis of skin color?

Tamir was "targeted" because he had been pointing a realistic looking gun at multiple people and shooting the gun at automobiles. His skin color had nothing to do with it.

Again, for the FOURTH TIME produce your evidence that blacks are "targeted."

I love how you ask me a fourth time and made a big deal about it in the same post you asked me a third time.

I guess you don't know any black people (not surprised) but every single one that I know is profiled like crazy. Also, when you google racial profiling statistics, these statistics show up. Amazing how that works!


Here you go:

http://www.civilrights.org/publications/reports/racial-profiling2011/the-reality-of-racial.html

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 08:52 PM
Lebron did the right thing. He kept his mouth shut and promised only to speak when he had a better understanding of the situation.

Unfortunately, some of the knuckleheads defending or even criticizing BLM won't do the same.

You all are crying racism and racial profiling without the slightest shred of evidence.

Never mind that MORE whites than blacks are killed by cops.

Never mind that blacks themselves rely on the police to answer 911 calls for their own protection.

Never mind that blacks are more satisfied with the response of police than whites.

The facts don't matter at all. Why?

RACISM

No evidence required.

All refuting evidence ignored.

Great job, PSD!

mngopher35
12-31-2015, 08:57 PM
What is your point in stating that the Black people (justifiably) killed by the Cops have never killed anyone? Does it mean they weren't in the wrong prior to being killed? No, they were wrong (in the majority of cases and in the Tamir Rice case) and the Cops were justified.

I think G_S_W is quite insane in all honesty, but I have to actually agree that statistics and psychology have a huge part to play.

As stated previously, if 95% of people wearing green wigs killed people for the past 500 years, society would have a predisposition to be more cautious around people with green wigs. This doesn't give Cops jurisdiction to randomly shoot and kill INNOCENT people wearing green wigs. However, if a person with a green wig had a gun in his or her waist, reached for it as the cop was approaching, how can anyone blame the cop for thinking the green wig person is going to get his gun and shoot him? Even if that particular person in a green wig has never killed anyone, that does nothing to the Cop's psyche.

Umm he used a stat with that info so I discredited it because it doesn't apply to most of these cases. Just because they haven't killed doesn't mean cops won't have justification, I'm not saying that at all. Case by case basis for sure.

I am saying the ratio of black murders to black deaths by cop is irrelevant to the issue of these african americans who did not kill anyone. A relevant statistic to this discussion would be something like the # of people killed without committing murder within each race. I know cops will go after murders etc. with extra caution/force as they have a proven individual history, it is when you take that same approach just due to being African American that is the issue.

I get what you are saying but once cops start taking action based on general statistics then it is the start of profiling. If it were a white kid instead of Rice and the same cop wouldn't have acted in the same way due just to that fact (based on the stats) then it is a problem. Not saying that is the case here though, just an example.

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 09:06 PM
http://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2015/07/hispanics_in_the_us_are_more_violent_than_nonhispa nic_whites.html

A few basic stats:

Per capita:

1. blacks commit 9X (900%) more violent felonies than whites, 11X the murder rate, 5X the rape rate

2. hispanics commit 6.5X more violent felonies than whites, 6.6X the murder rate, 3.5X the rape rate

cmellofan15
12-31-2015, 09:06 PM
People aren't born with green wigs on their head lmao

mngopher35
12-31-2015, 09:08 PM
Finally, you admit that cops don't engage in racial profiling, because you have no facts to support the claim.

What's the point in this hypothetical then?

Tamir was shot in self defense. It has nothing to do with race. If he hadn't been shooting at automobies, and pointing his realistic airsoft at people, and hadn't reached for it while approaching the police, he would still be alive.

What do any of those facts have to do with race? Nothing.

The fact of the matter is, it's common sense to recognize that blacks commit crimes at a far higher rate than any other population in the US. It's common sense and common knowledge, not racism.

I have said from the start not all cops do it, just a small amount.

I agree about the facts and black crime but if you use that to generalize you are profiling. Thats the definition. If you think of/treat someone differently because of their race you are racial profiling (even if due to statistics).

What you see as a kid who deserved it for playing with a toy gun in an inappropriate manner, I see as something any kid from my old neighborhood did/has done. We used to play with airsoft guns all the time and even had cops tell us we couldn't do it at the park (all white, no 911 and good neighborhood so different scenario of course). The entire situation was handled badly IMO from the 911 call to the police to the prosecution. I am not saying the police are in the wrong 100% even though my personal feelings are it was handled wrong. I am not a cop who deals with this every day so I will not say my opinion is right no matter what like you appear to think of your own.

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 09:16 PM
I have said from the start not all cops do it, just a small amount.

I agree about the facts and black crime but if you use that to generalize you are profiling. Thats the definition. If you think of/treat someone differently because of their race you are racial profiling (even if due to statistics).

What you see as a kid who deserved it for playing with a toy gun in an inappropriate manner, I see as something any kid from my old neighborhood did/has done. We used to play with airsoft guns all the time and even had cops tell us we couldn't do it at the park (all white and good neighborhood so different scenario of course). The entire situation was handled badly IMO from the 911 call to the police to the prosecution. I am not saying the police are in the wrong 100% even though my personal feelings are it was handled wrong. I am not a cop who deals with this every day so I will not say my opinion is right no matter what like you appear to think of your own.

Tamir pointed the airsoft (no orange plug) gun at multiple people, pointed it at the park in general, shot the gun at automobiles and reached for the gun his waistband while approaching the police.

The gun is very realistic looking, esp. from a distance.

Those are the indisputable facts.

I have also presented facts regarding the astronomical rates of crime amongst blacks and hispanics.

It is impossible for police to ignore the evidence. The police are looking to stop criminals. Blacks and hispanics are committing crimes, esp. violent crimes at far higher rates than other populations. It's just that simple.

The police don't consider all blacks and hispanics to be criminals. They know, just like blacks and hispanics themselves, that blacks and hispanics commit a much larger percentage of crime than other populations.

Obviously, blacks engage in racial profiling themselves. Why? Because they know that more of their fellow blacks are engaged in crime than other groups. By definition, blacks themselves engage in racial profiling and are racist, as much or more so than whites.

Therefore, blacks are more "racist" than any other group.

G_S_W
12-31-2015, 09:19 PM
I have said from the start not all cops do it, just a small amount.

I agree about the facts and black crime but if you use that to generalize you are profiling. Thats the definition. If you think of/treat someone differently because of their race you are racial profiling (even if due to statistics).

What you see as a kid who deserved it for playing with a toy gun in an inappropriate manner, I see as something any kid from my old neighborhood did/has done. We used to play with airsoft guns all the time and even had cops tell us we couldn't do it at the park (all white, no 911 and good neighborhood so different scenario of course). The entire situation was handled badly IMO from the 911 call to the police to the prosecution. I am not saying the police are in the wrong 100% even though my personal feelings are it was handled wrong. I am not a cop who deals with this every day so I will not say my opinion is right no matter what like you appear to think of your own.

I disagree. I think EVERYONE recognizes that blacks and hispanics commit more crime. I call this common sense and common knowledge. You call it "racism" and racial profiling.

Blacks are the most racist group of all, because they are more aware of all of the crimes their fellow blacks are committing. How do I know this? BECAUSE BLACKS ARE THE MOST LIKELY TO BE VICTIMIZED BY BLACK CRIMINALS.

Simply being aware of facts apparently makes you a racist.

Therefore, when a black person calls 911 because another black is committing a crime, or is even suspected of a crime, this is "racism."

blahblahyoutoo
12-31-2015, 09:22 PM
Where is your evidence that minorities are targeted for the color of their skin?

BTW, whites are "minorities" in numerous cities in the US.

Damn those minority Asians and their drive by shootings in the hood being disproportionately targeted by cops. Oh wait...

Redrum187
12-31-2015, 09:26 PM
People aren't born with green wigs on their head lmao

I guess that analogy went over your green wig... jk. =p

Redrum187
12-31-2015, 09:37 PM
What you see as a kid who deserved it for playing with a toy gun in an inappropriate manner, I see as something any kid from my old neighborhood did/has done.

I'm having a really difficult time understanding why people want to call it a "toy" gun. It's a gun, period. It may not have the ability to penetrate someone's skull, but it is nevertheless an offensive weapon which was modified for an obvious reason... to make look like the type of weapon it was meant to replicate.

If someone had Tamir Rice's "toy gun" and robbed a bank, he or she would be charged with armed robbery. Courts have defined "armed robbery" as robbery using a weapon. A weapon has previously been defined by an object that could cause death or inflict serious bodily harm. Could a pellet gun (even with the red tip) be fired at someone's eye balls, thereby making him blind and in excruciating pain? Absolutely. This isn't a toy, no more than an AK47 is a toy.

mngopher35
12-31-2015, 09:39 PM
I disagree. I think EVERYONE recognizes that blacks and hispanics commit more crime. I call this common sense and common knowledge. You call it "racism" and racial profiling.

Blacks are the most racist group of all, because they are more aware of all of the crimes their fellow blacks are committing. How do I know this? BECAUSE BLACKS ARE THE MOST LIKELY TO BE VICTIMIZED BY BLACK CRIMINALS.

Simply being aware of facts apparently makes you a racist.

Therefore, when a black person calls 911 because another black is committing a crime, or is even suspected of a crime, this is "racism."

WTF, again I never said that. I am and have been saying that recognizing those facts and acting differently towards a specific race based on those stats are two different things. You just can't seem to have a discussion without being completely irrational towards the other side.

I dunno if you can't read or just do this on purpose but as others have proposed I should just end this. You seem incapable of discussion and continually misrepresent my words (or just straight up lie). Even people who have agreed with a point or two of yours call you crazy, something is clearly wrong with you and this topic.

Redrum187
12-31-2015, 09:41 PM
THIS is a toy gun.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61IgIqKfWTL._SL1296_.jpg

Redrum187
12-31-2015, 09:42 PM
I'm having a really difficult time understanding why people want to call it a "toy" gun. It's a gun, period. It may not have the ability to penetrate someone's skull, but it is nevertheless an offensive weapon which was modified for an obvious reason... to make look like the type of weapon it was meant to replicate.

If someone had Tamir Rice's "toy gun" and robbed a bank, he or she would be charged with armed robbery. Courts have defined "armed robbery" as robbery using a weapon. A weapon has previously been defined by an object that could cause death or inflict serious bodily harm. Could a pellet gun (even with the red tip) be fired at someone's eye balls, thereby making him blind and in excruciating pain? Absolutely. This isn't a toy, no more than an AK47 is a toy.

Bump.

mngopher35
12-31-2015, 09:58 PM
I'm having a really difficult time understanding why people want to call it a "toy" gun. It's a gun, period. It may not have the ability to penetrate someone's skull, but it is nevertheless an offensive weapon which was modified for an obvious reason... to make look like the type of weapon it was meant to replicate.

If someone had Tamir Rice's "toy gun" and robbed a bank, he or she could potentially be charged with armed robbery. Courts have defined "armed robbery" as robbery using a weapon. A weapon has previously been defined by an object that could cause death or inflict serious bodily harm. Could a pellet gun (even with the red tip) be fired at someone's eye balls, thereby making him blind and in excruciating pain? Absolutely. This isn't a toy, no more than an AK47 is a toy.

Hmmm I disagree but might see what you are saying. I think it is very obvious that an AK47 is different than airsoft and that is why rules are way different. To me it is a toy gun since that's what I used it as but if we want to call it more than a toy I see that.

However just because it was a toy gun to me does not mean that the police knew that or had any way to know that (due to the 911 operator). As you mentioned it was modified as well so even if it were in clear view they wouldn't have known most likely. I dunno what your point is here but if this is it I agree. If the point is anyone with any sort of gun (even toy types) should be treated like someone with an AK47 I strongly disagree.

mngopher35
12-31-2015, 10:02 PM
THIS is a toy gun.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/61IgIqKfWTL._SL1296_.jpg

This could also be used to harm people so I am not sure what the difference is? Stories have come out about people using chemicals and it hurting people badly. It is a toy gun being misused to injure, but it appears we both call it a toy gun. Tamir misused his gone to shoot at cars and by taking adjusting it to look more real etc. but that doesn't mean it had anywhere near the threat of an actual gun imo, similar to the toy above.

kobe4thewinbang
12-31-2015, 10:26 PM
While I want to laugh, you opened a can of worms that others may not take kindly too.When a self-respecting and responsible black gun owner with a permit gets controversially shot, I might care. But again it's just another idiot threatening people.

kobe4thewinbang
12-31-2015, 10:30 PM
H
Something Ive noticed though, and its not a black thing either...cops shoot to kill more and more even when they don't have to...and the reason is, dead people can't testify. A dude just got killed for coming at cops with a knife from 30 feet away. They unloaded on him. For what? People get shot in the back for running away from cops. And they unload trying to kill. Cops shoot to kill because they dont want someone telling on them for being racist/dirty/hunters/etc.Anyone that threatens a cop with a weapon is allowed to be shot. Not about mercy, about decency and natural selection. Don't need people like that in the world.

kobe4thewinbang
12-31-2015, 10:38 PM
See ignorant statements like these are so widespread in this country today its ridiculous. Neither child was responsible for their deaths. Both of them were minding their own damn business and Trayvon wasn't even killed by a cop so that makes that situation even worst. Tamir Rice was a 12 year old child in the park minding his own business playing. You know that thing kids seem to do so rarely these days. He was where a 12 year old is supposed to be in a PARK PLAYING. There is no justification for any of these deaths. Especially considering they were both children who didn't threaten the life of either party. THEY DIDN'T GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO CONFRONT THE PERSON THAT KILLED THEM. Yet they get called thugs. People are so delusional in this country it's just beyond ridiculous. White privilege goes a long way. If you don't think it exist you might as well be walking through life with your eyes closed and ears shut.Playing in the park with a gun. James Holmes just wanted to role play as the Joker at the movies too.

kobe4thewinbang
12-31-2015, 10:47 PM
Funny, because for white people that falls under "open carry" and the 2nd Amendment. Having a gun in public is not a crime in and of itself.I trust Jedediah with the AR-15 on his back more than J-Dog on the block with a Mac 10. One has a permit and knows how to behave in society. And cops shoot immediately because sometimes they get shot at immediately. Usually by black "protestors."

flea
12-31-2015, 11:00 PM
Just a couple clarifications:

First, if you use a toy gun (or even a candy bar like in the great Charlie Sheen movie The Chase) in the commission of a robbery then it's going to be armed robbery unless whoever you rob somehow knows for certain it's not a gun. You can't jokingly rob someone and then say J/K when the cops show up, same goes for using weapons.

Second, it's not the job of prosecutors to pursue every case in an attempt to get it before a jury trial. Most of the time prosecutors just decline to move forward with a case if they feel there isn't enough evidence. Sometimes in high profile cases (as we've seen) they'll use the grand jury as political cover. It's perfectly okay to be critical of that but part of a prosecutor's job is deciding which crimes to pursue since taxpayer resources are not infinite. I'm sympathetic in the Rice case but I see how it would be difficult, or even near impossible, to get any sort of criminal conviction given what the facts are and what occurred on video. Tragic situation.

ATX
12-31-2015, 11:18 PM
A 12 years old playing with a toy gun and got murdered within 2 seconds of the police cruiser pulling up to the scene and some of you still think "he's a thug who's responsible for his own death"


How about the cop that pulled up to the scene gun blazing without knowing the facts?

But I'm not surprise man... Some of you are just happy to see another young black kid dead.

:clap:

I find it sad that I actually feel relieved that somebody out there has it correct and "Gets it"...Meaning that most of us know this was an injustice, however seemingly only the ignorant and bitterly hateful come out to speak on such topics. He was 12....Toy gun...A child at play and an officer without any use of rationale decided it best to take this poor child's life. It's bad enough that posters are defending the officers rash and terrible poor judgement, but to say the murdered child at play was a thug...I mean...What world am I living in? It's not a world that I want to live in, and it goes to show just how far America has fallen from it's values....Funny though, as that is always what the hateful preach...Values, but what true hypocrites they are....Taking a human life, a child's life...Over a toy gun, when there were so many alternative ways to handle the situation. Thank you lamzoka for showing me that there are still good human beings out there on the internet.

Redrum187
12-31-2015, 11:39 PM
Hmmm I disagree but might see what you are saying. I think it is very obvious that an AK47 is different than airsoft and that is why rules are way different. To me it is a toy gun since that's what I used it as but if we want to call it more than a toy I see that.

However just because it was a toy gun to me does not mean that the police knew that or had any way to know that (due to the 911 operator). As you mentioned it was modified as well so even if it were in clear view they wouldn't have known most likely. I dunno what your point is here but if this is it I agree. If the point is anyone with any sort of gun (even toy types) should be treated like someone with an AK47 I strongly disagree.

I wasn't suggesting his weapon is the same caliber as an AK47, but it was used in the same regard as an AK47 in the context of using it to commit a crime. If people use a water pistol with chemicals, then yes, it's more than just a "water gun", it's a biological weapon, and therefore not a toy gun.

I suppose all this is a moot point when talking about the Tamir Rice incident, as we both agree there was no way for the cop to know. My point is that people may be using the term "toy gun" to make it seem like what the cop did was outrageous and unwarranted and to lessen how foolish Tamir's decision making was that day.

I have used knives since I was 12 years old, but I wouldn't ever call them a "toy knife". Sure, a samurai sword can do a lot more damage than any of the knives I owned, but it doesn't make my knife incapable of inflicting fatal wounds. Can I call an AK47 a "toy" if I use it for target practice and when comparing it to a nuclear bomb, it's noticeably less dangerous? I wouldn't call the AK47 a toy... even if it doesn't inflict as much damage as a nuclear bomb.

Redrum187
12-31-2015, 11:46 PM
Just a couple clarifications:

First, if you use a toy gun (or even a candy bar like in the great Charlie Sheen movie The Chase) in the commission of a robbery then it's going to be armed robbery unless whoever you rob somehow knows for certain it's not a gun. You can't jokingly rob someone and then say J/K when the cops show up, same goes for using weapons.

Second, it's not the job of prosecutors to pursue every case in an attempt to get it before a jury trial. Most of the time prosecutors just decline to move forward with a case if they feel there isn't enough evidence. Sometimes in high profile cases (as we've seen) they'll use the grand jury as political cover. It's perfectly okay to be critical of that but part of a prosecutor's job is deciding which crimes to pursue since taxpayer resources are not infinite. I'm sympathetic in the Rice case but I see how it would be difficult, or even near impossible, to get any sort of criminal conviction given what the facts are and what occurred on video. Tragic situation.

For the bolded, yes, that is the case most of the time. However, a Florida court has said otherwise. I personally think it ought to be automatically armed robbery though. As you said, there is no way for the victim to know...

http://lawandorder.blogs.gainesville.com/10652/court-rules-that-robbers-using-toy-guns-are-not-really-armed/

Nevertheless, what Tamir Rice had isn't a "toy" or "fake" in the legal sense, it's 100% classified as a "weapon." Even the Florida court would rule it armed robbery due to the capabilities of Tamir's weapon... excuse me, "toy" (if used to rob of course).

mngopher35
01-01-2016, 12:02 AM
Just a couple clarifications:

First, if you use a toy gun (or even a candy bar like in the great Charlie Sheen movie The Chase) in the commission of a robbery then it's going to be armed robbery unless whoever you rob somehow knows for certain it's not a gun. You can't jokingly rob someone and then say J/K when the cops show up, same goes for using weapons.

Second, it's not the job of prosecutors to pursue every case in an attempt to get it before a jury trial. Most of the time prosecutors just decline to move forward with a case if they feel there isn't enough evidence. Sometimes in high profile cases (as we've seen) they'll use the grand jury as political cover. It's perfectly okay to be critical of that but part of a prosecutor's job is deciding which crimes to pursue since taxpayer resources are not infinite. I'm sympathetic in the Rice case but I see how it would be difficult, or even near impossible, to get any sort of criminal conviction given what the facts are and what occurred on video. Tragic situation.

I can't find where I said it but I'm pretty sure that 2nd point is off something I said but you are correct if I said it differently. The main point/issue I have with that is when it comes to cops the way they handle it is many times very different than usually handled, very possibly/likely due to their relationships. It is their job to decide if it should go to court and in the grand jury they present the case. They don't have to represent both sides though, just what they want people to hear which is where issues generally occur when it comes to cops.

In the Rice case specifically there was no doubt the prosecutor didn't want it going to trial (he recommended it I believe). This after a judge in June said there was enough evidence for trial the prosecutor pushed for grand jury instead but that in itself isn't extreme. He basically played the role of defense in the grand jury hearing, not even cross examining them (I believe they just used written statements so it couldn't happen). Attorneys on the other side questioned him throughout the process obviously and asked him to step down but he seemed pretty set on getting everything dropped. It is just a very flawed system that needs to be addressed IMO.

I am not so sure that a criminal conviction is unlikely although I don't think they would be convicted of murder in the end (but what about some of the lesser charges possible?). Hard to say for sure without both sides truly being represented but I would have a hard time convicting off of what I currently know I guess (I'm sure there are plenty of details I don't). I just want it to be a fair process, it seems like many are starting to see these issues and hopefully there will be change soon.

Redrum187
01-01-2016, 12:05 AM
:clap:

I find it sad that I actually feel relieved that somebody out there has it correct and "Gets it"...Meaning that most of us know this was an injustice, however seemingly only the ignorant and bitterly hateful come out to speak on such topics. He was 12....Toy gun...A child at play and an officer without any use of rationale decided it best to take this poor child's life. It's bad enough that posters are defending the officers rash and terrible poor judgement, but to say the murdered child at play was a thug...I mean...What world am I living in? It's not a world that I want to live in, and it goes to show just how far America has fallen from it's values....Funny though, as that is always what the hateful preach...Values, but what true hypocrites they are....Taking a human life, a child's life...Over a toy gun, when there were so many alternative ways to handle the situation. Thank you lamzoka for showing me that there are still good human beings out there on the internet.

Questions for you:

1.) The "toy", which is legally classified as a weapon, was incapable of inflicting harm? If it was capable of inflicting harm, how much harm must it inflict before you stop calling it a "toy"?

2.) Tamir was "playing" with his "toy" at a park. If my son was playing with a legitimate toy AK47 replica that was modded to appear exactly like an AK47 (but it didn't project anything) and was pointing it at your mom's face, would you be like, "Awe mom, the cute little boy is just playing." or would you actually be quite fearful? Since when is shooting cars and pointing a weapon that looks like another weapon with a larger caliber at people just "playing"?

3.) Do you suggest the cop should have asked the kid as he was reaching for his weapon, "Excuse me son, does that weapon shoot 10mm (40 cal) bullets or pellets? I know they sell pellet guns that are modeled after higher caliber weapons but they typically have a red tip. I don't see a red tip, so that's why I'm asking. By the way, this has nothing to do with racial profiling, I'm just responding to a 9-1-1 call about a Black person pointing a gun at people."

What if a cop went through all that but the person reaching for the gun had a higher caliber weapon? By the time the cop said "Excuse me..." the person would have already pulled the weapon out from his waist and blown the cop away.

4.) You say the cop had irrational thought/judgment for following textbook justifiable protocol, but admire Tamir for "playing" (shooting cars and pointing his gun at people) for being a good ole kid. Do you think Tamir showed great judgment when he was told to keep his hands down but instead reach for his weapon from his waist? :rolleyes:

mngopher35
01-01-2016, 12:18 AM
I wasn't suggesting his weapon is the same caliber as an AK47, but it was used in the same regard as an AK47 in the context of using it to commit a crime. If people use a water pistol with chemicals, then yes, it's more than just a "water gun", it's a biological weapon, and therefore not a toy gun.

I suppose all this is a moot point when talking about the Tamir Rice incident, as we both agree there was no way for the cop to know. My point is that people may be using the term "toy gun" to make it seem like what the cop did was outrageous and unwarranted and to lessen how foolish Tamir's decision making was that day.

I have used knives since I was 12 years old, but I wouldn't ever call them a "toy knife". Sure, a samurai sword can do a lot more damage than any of the knives I owned, but it doesn't make my knife incapable of inflicting fatal wounds. Can I call an AK47 a "toy" if I use it for target practice and when comparing it to a nuclear bomb, it's noticeably less dangerous? I wouldn't call the AK47 a toy... even if it doesn't inflict as much damage as a nuclear bomb.

Ya we seem to agree about the main point and I understand what you are saying but there is a distinction to me. There is a reason Airsoft guns are treated differently legally and it is because of how less harmful/dangerous they are (I'm pretty sure, could be wrong if so explain).

I in no way intended to use the toy part in the way you suggest, I even clarified that. What about just calling it what it is instead of using the word toy, a plastic pellet gun? Calling it no more of a toy than an AK47 is the opposite extreme of what you are fighting against (calling it a toy).

blahblahyoutoo
01-01-2016, 12:30 AM
:clap:

I find it sad that I actually feel relieved that somebody out there has it correct and "Gets it"...Meaning that most of us know this was an injustice, however seemingly only the ignorant and bitterly hateful come out to speak on such topics. He was 12....Toy gun...A child at play and an officer without any use of rationale decided it best to take this poor child's life. It's bad enough that posters are defending the officers rash and terrible poor judgement, but to say the murdered child at play was a thug...I mean...What world am I living in? It's not a world that I want to live in, and it goes to show just how far America has fallen from it's values....Funny though, as that is always what the hateful preach...Values, but what true hypocrites they are....Taking a human life, a child's life...Over a toy gun, when there were so many alternative ways to handle the situation. Thank you lamzoka for showing me that there are still good human beings out there on the internet.

gents, what we haz here is another brilliant individual who hears "cop shoots black child" and makes no attempt to gather the facts before posting, and automatically condemns the cop and assume the victim played no role in his death.
he's the typical "uninformed" (trying to be kind here) American that's rallying behind BLM.

walk a day in the shoes of a cop and maybe you might understand.

G_S_W
01-01-2016, 12:42 AM
Tamir walked towards a cop and reached for a gun in his waistband.

Guess what happened next.

Saddletramp
01-01-2016, 12:43 AM
walk a day in the shoes of a cop and maybe you might understand.

Walk a day in the shoes of a black person and maybe you might understand, too.

Redrum187
01-01-2016, 01:02 AM
Ya we seem to agree about the main point and I understand what you are saying but there is a distinction to me. There is a reason Airsoft guns are treated differently legally and it is because of how less harmful/dangerous they are (I'm pretty sure, could be wrong if so explain).

I in no way intended to use the toy part in the way you suggest, I even clarified that. What about just calling it what it is instead of using the word toy, a plastic pellet gun? Calling it no more of a toy than an AK47 is the opposite extreme of what you are fighting against (calling it a toy).

You're correct in that airsoft guns are treated differently than the other weapons they are meant to replicate in that one needs a license for one, and not for the other (airsoft gun). However, when used criminally, there is no distinction whatsoever.

I also don't think I'm calling it the opposite extreme of a toy. I'm just calling it what it is, a gun.

Gun: a weapon incorporating a metal tube from which bullets, shells, or other missiles are propelled by explosive force, typically making a characteristic loud, sharp noise.

I'm even good with calling it a "weapon" as the courts have specifically defined. I don't mean to say his gun/weapon is the same caliber or the same in licensing as an AK47 (they are illegal anyways). But wouldn't you sort of agree that calling it a toy downplays the severity of the "object" Tamir had? I'm just simply using standard definitions from google and the court, I am definitely not an extremist.

What do children use their pellet gun for? To shoot at object and/or targets. That's exactly what I use my FN Five-Seven for. I don't call it a toy. When my father bought me my first pellet gun, he was responsible enough to teach me weapons are NOT toys. If we call Tamir's weapon a toy because it's not as lethal as an AK47, then anyone is justified in calling their AK47 a toy because by comparison to a nuclear weapon, it's not nearly as lethal. It's foolish to think that way.

mngopher35
01-01-2016, 01:17 AM
You're correct in that airsoft guns are treated differently than the other weapons they are meant to replicate in that one needs a license for one, and not for the other (airsoft gun). However, when used criminally, there is no distinction whatsoever.

I also don't think I'm calling it the opposite extreme of a toy. I'm just calling it what it is, a gun.

Gun: a weapon incorporating a metal tube from which bullets, shells, or other missiles are propelled by explosive force, typically making a characteristic loud, sharp noise.

I'm even good with calling it a "weapon" as the courts have specifically defined. I don't mean to say his gun/weapon is the same caliber or the same in licensing as an AK47 (they are illegal anyways). But wouldn't you sort of agree that calling it a toy downplays the severity of the "object" Tamir had? I'm just simply using standard definitions from google and the court, I am definitely not an extremist.

Sure, just like saying it isn't more of a toy than an AK47 downplays it way too much IMO. Both can
be said and justified in their own way but in the end he was far less of a danger than if he had an AK47. Again I have seen airsoft guns used in similar ways to this and even in front of cops and while you say the law says it is the same there is absolutely 0 chance an officer reacts the same way IF HE KNOWS which type you have. That is because there is actually a very big difference between the two.

In this case the officer didn't know so that can't be put solely on him (responding to a call where he was told a gun was present, wasn't specified to him likely fake). To call it a toy just to amplify the fault of a police officer is wrong I agree, but I have been calling them toy guns my entire life (without question honestly) and even clarified that distinction. I just think you are trying way to hard to be on the opposite end of what you claim they are doing in your comparisons. Again though outside of minor definitions and what to call it here we seem to agree on the big point.

tdg823
01-01-2016, 01:24 AM
I would blame whoever called the cops more than the cops themselves. They were responding to a call that a person was waiving a gun around in a park loaded with children.

You think you can tell a toy gun from a real gun in that scenario?

Cops could have easily rolled up as aggressive as they did because they were trying to shield the children in the park from the deranged gunman they thought they were responding to (i.e. driving their car on the grass directly infront of Tamir Rice creating a barrier between he and the civilians they thought they were protecting).

Funny thing is all of these super liberal, anti-cop cities are the ones running most rampant with black on black gun violence. If blacks weren't out there shooting each other at astronomical rates, the cops wouldn't be running up to these scenes ready for a gunfight. Unfortunately, that is all they see in these inner urban areas and that is what they expect when they confront these people.

You live in NY - you should understand first hand what happened when De Blasio told cops to chill the **** out, got rid of stop and frisk. Black and black gun violence has skyrocketed. There are bad seeds in every walk of life, but the Cops aren't the underlying problem here.

The war on cops has done nothing at all but make us all less safe, and lead to increase inner city crime, guns and shooting. What war on cops?

Redrum187
01-01-2016, 01:43 AM
Sure, just like saying it isn't more of a toy than an AK47 downplays it way too much IMO. Both can
be said and justified in their own way but in the end he was far less of a danger than if he had an AK47. Again I have seen airsoft guns used in similar ways to this and even in front of cops and while you say the law says it is the same there is absolutely 0 chance an officer reacts the same way IF HE KNOWS which type you have. That is because there is actually a very big difference between the two.

In this case the officer didn't know so that can't be put solely on him (responding to a call where he was told a gun was present, wasn't specified to him likely fake). To call it a toy just to amplify the fault of a police officer is wrong I agree, but I have been calling them toy guns my entire life (without question honestly) and even clarified that distinction. I just think you are trying way to hard to be on the opposite end of what you claim they are doing in your comparisons. Again though outside of minor definitions and what to call it here we seem to agree on the big point.

Read ATX's post. He uses it in the context I am saying. I believe you when you say you aren't. Unfortunately, I know way too many people who think exactly like ATX so I definitely am passionate about calling a spade a spade pertaining to guns.

Also, I agree, had the cop known it shot pellets and not 10 mm bullets, I can understand the outrage many are having. That wasn't the point I was making though.

tdg823
01-01-2016, 01:47 AM
The idea that an issue shouldn't be talked about because there are bigger problems doesn't make sense to me. We have had far less deaths due to ISIS than cops in America but it's still a major issue for example.

I don't agree with all of the ways BLM handle themselves or protest but the need to raise awareness is definitely there. In our system there has long been racial profiling and discrimination against african americans from cops. Many many more African Americans get put into jail for Marijuana possession for example when statistically it is a similar number who partake in the activity (also many times used to try and paint them as thugs after the fact, see blahblah post above on that).

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/06/04/the-blackwhite-marijuana-arrest-gap-in-nine-charts/

Then we get to the deaths from law enforcement, this time a 12 year old with a toy gun killed within a couple of seconds (no attempt to help after either). Even if this case isn't one that you think is worthy there are plenty to choose from and I think it is quite hard to side with the cops every time without bias honestly (same can be said the other way, cops aren't always at fault either like some claim). The thing is that even when the cops are at fault they many times will get off due to our justice system and them being friends with the prosecutors etc. In this case a municipal court judge back in June said it should go to trial but the prosecutor did everything in his power to prevent that in the process (basically the opposite of normal). I am not even saying these guys are 100% guilty but they should definitely be put to trial.

I don't know that there is a clear cut way to solve the problem but there must be something done at this point. The BLM movement may not be perfect but at least awareness of the issue has grown big time so maybe some steps can be taken to start fixing the system. It may not be the biggest issue we face but I find it very hard to not take this seriously when a large population in the U.S. (African Americans) are being openly murdered and discriminated against from people who are supposed to be there to protect (usually without punishment).
Solid post. And as for the black on black violence, is it just intellectual dishonesty or do you guys really not see the difference between criminal acts that are commonly found in any poverty stricken area, race aside, in which the perps usually face the consequences of their actions and criminal acts by individuals representing and wielding the full power of the state with multiple lethal and abusive tools at their disposal who are protected in an unreasonable way by that state? You really apply the same standards there? You realize that is a complete apples to oranges comparison? And I'm not going down the road of how instituitionally we've cut off the resources to those areas forcing people to adapt by any deviant behavior necessary, that none of you are really any better and that in similar situations you'd behave largely the same... or that a lack of economic understanding leads people like many of you to not see that there will always be ghettos and poverty level classes in this country no matter how motivated, moral or educated they are. Certain people will always find a way to blame theses people and ignore the fact that they are a necessary, fundamental part of how our country functions. Somehow (hmm?) these people victimized are often minority. If the system functioned so that white's were the poor, poverty stricken class with generational issues of social and emotional adjustment (because millions of people like this MUST EXIST IN THIS COUNTRY, a basic economic fact) would you be so comfortable assigning negative attributes to them?

tdg823
01-01-2016, 01:54 AM
BLM is based upon a set of false premises:

1. that Michael Brown was innocent. He clearly wasn't. He grabbed for an officer's gun with the clear intent of killing him. He did not put his hands up. That is a complete and utter lie.

2. Police target blacks. The facts are that blacks, while 1/8 of the US population, are responsible for HALF of all US homicides. Blacks are also responsible for 40% of all violent crime.

Blacks are not "targeted or profiled." They commit far more crimes, esp. violent crime than whites or asians. They come into contact with the police because they engage in crime at the highest rate.

This is not an issue of racism. This is an issue of police responding to crime reports.
I'm going to try real hard not to rehash the Ferguson thing, but some thoughts 1) some of you might want to look at the standards for indictment by grand jury in cop related cases versus otherwise. Apply the noncop standard, factor in the witness inconsistencies on BOTH sides and tell me again whether it should have gone to trial; 2) Do some research on prosecutor McColloughs (sic) previous history, particularly the Jack in the Box case. Factor in what we've learned about prosecutorial misconduct in similar cases in Chicago and otherwise since then and reconsider this case. Before you mention the DOJ report, who handled all the evidence and witnesses initially that they dealt with?

tdg823
01-01-2016, 02:00 AM
BLM is based upon a set of false premises:

1. that Michael Brown was innocent. He clearly wasn't. He grabbed for an officer's gun with the clear intent of killing him. He did not put his hands up. That is a complete and utter lie.

2. Police target blacks. The facts are that blacks, while 1/8 of the US population, are responsible for HALF of all US homicides. Blacks are also responsible for 40% of all violent crime.

Blacks are not "targeted or profiled." They commit far more crimes, esp. violent crime than whites or asians. They come into contact with the police because they engage in crime at the highest rate.

This is not an issue of racism. This is an issue of police responding to crime reports.They are policed more. Middle class and upper class neighborhoods carry and do drugs at the same rate as poor blacks. They commit traffic offenses at the same rates. Police actually police heavier in poor and minority areas. It's simple math and common sense that many (not all) of the crime stats will be higher for them because of this. If they did stop and frisk in the suburbs and actually prosecuted, you'd have a lot of white kids trying to figure out how to get a job with a criminal record. But you know facts are racist...

tdg823
01-01-2016, 02:05 AM
MNgother, stop talking out of your ***.

The bottom line is that blacks are responsible for their own problems. You're scapegoating the cops as a distraction and diversion from this simple fact.You have such a small view of the world.

tdg823
01-01-2016, 02:14 AM
Excellent point. BLM assumes all cops are guilty and racist, and assume that every black person is innocent.
It's beyond idiocy. The facts are irrelevant.

Where was the outrage when Al Sharpton perpetrated the Tawana Brawley fraud?

Where is the outrage over all of the dead blacks at the hands of fellow blacks?

Where is the outrage by feminists all of the women, black and white raped by black men? Utterly ridiculous statement, undermines credibility on the posters part. You speak of evidence, show me one shred of evidence to support such a blanket statement. What is sought is accountability on all sides, fair and equally applied. This is not a hard point to understand, what you stated is something completely different and flat out false. Absolutes rarely exist especially when applied to humans and their interactions. Please retract.

tdg823
01-01-2016, 02:20 AM
I totally agree about that hypocrisy and think it happens a lot in other issues as well (where people need to realize it is the minority causing problems not an entire group of people).

I don't see the rice case quite as easy as you seem to but I will say I do have an issue with the justice system here as much as the cops involved as you said. I honestly am not completely sure if they were in the wrong or not but the prosecutors job is to get it to trial and he was basically doing the opposite (providing written statement so they didn't have to be cross examined, his use of media etc). If you have some in depth info or case for this and want to make a point I would love to hear it though, there definitely could be more to the story than I know.Happened like that in Ferguson too. Funny how they do that?

blahblahyoutoo
01-01-2016, 02:52 AM
ahh, the age old excuse of socio-economic factors as a reason for criminal activity.
let's use Chinatown NYC as an example then. large minority population, coming to the city/country with nothing but the shirt on their backs, barely speak a word of english, but low crime rates. why aren't the front pages of NY papers flooded with Chinese on Chinese violence?
it's far easier to blame whitey and the cops than to look within the culture and see where the failure lies.
no talk of having children out of wedlock, single parent households, focus on education. no, because you is a sell out if you speak proper english, is I right?

there are nations where the average person has far less than what our average welfare recipient has, provided to them for FREE (food, rent, cell phones, spending money) and violence isn't a problem because they're not focused on having the latest Jordan kicks and playing knock out games, is I right?

socio-economic factors, or racism, aren't the reason for inner city problems. it's cultural.


Solid post. And as for the black on black violence, is it just intellectual dishonesty or do you guys really not see the difference between criminal acts that are commonly found in any poverty stricken area, race aside, in which the perps usually face the consequences of their actions and criminal acts by individuals representing and wielding the full power of the state with multiple lethal and abusive tools at their disposal who are protected in an unreasonable way by that state? You really apply the same standards there? You realize that is a complete apples to oranges comparison? And I'm not going down the road of how instituitionally we've cut off the resources to those areas forcing people to adapt by any deviant behavior necessary, that none of you are really any better and that in similar situations you'd behave largely the same... or that a lack of economic understanding leads people like many of you to not see that there will always be ghettos and poverty level classes in this country no matter how motivated, moral or educated they are. Certain people will always find a way to blame theses people and ignore the fact that they are a necessary, fundamental part of how our country functions. Somehow (hmm?) these people victimized are often minority. If the system functioned so that white's were the poor, poverty stricken class with generational issues of social and emotional adjustment (because millions of people like this MUST EXIST IN THIS COUNTRY, a basic economic fact) would you be so comfortable assigning negative attributes to them?

cmellofan15
01-01-2016, 03:06 AM
I trust Jedediah with the AR-15 on his back more than J-Dog on the block with a Mac 10. One has a permit and knows how to behave in society. And cops shoot immediately because sometimes they get shot at immediately. Usually by black "protestors."

Lmao black people are shooting at cops now? News to me..I bet you can't find a singles statistic to support your claim, mostly because I've seen all the statistics show that cop deaths are declining.

Generalizing people is pathetic and shows how ignorant you are, especially when the generalization is far from the truth.

tdg823
01-01-2016, 03:06 AM
ahh, the age old excuse of socio-economic factors as a reason for criminal activity.
let's use Chinatown NYC as an example then. large minority population, coming to the city/country with nothing but the shirt on their backs, barely speak a word of english, but low crime rates. why aren't the front pages of NY papers flooded with Chinese on Chinese violence?
it's far easier to blame whitey and the cops than to look within the culture and see where the failure lies.
no talk of having children out of wedlock, single parent households, focus on education. no, because you is a sell out if you speak proper english, is I right?

there are nations where the average person has far less than what our average welfare recipient has, provided to them for FREE (food, rent, cell phones, spending money) and violence isn't a problem because they're not focused on having the latest Jordan kicks and playing knock out games, is I right?

socio-economic factors, or racism, aren't the reason for inner city problems. it's cultural.Two rules in life, emotion taints rational decision making and small samples are notoriously unreliable. I could stand to do more research on the Chinatown thing, but the latter (plus I believe they get small business loans easier when they come over, weren't burdened with a criminal record here from stop and friskiness and had a much more stable upbringing [maybe not on that last point]) just might apply here. Plus I believe Chinatown had a notorious organized crime issue, correct? Hmm.

prodigy
01-01-2016, 03:17 AM
Funny, because for white people that falls under "open carry" and the 2nd Amendment. Having a gun in public is not a crime in and of itself.

You are just as bad and raciest as those ''white people''. Don't ever and I mean EVER mention a entire race and try to speak on how they think again. That's ignorant. Those sick comments u quoted only represent the posters who made them. not all white people thank you!

prodigy
01-01-2016, 03:21 AM
everyone is guilty and in the wrong. at 12 years old you gotta know u can't wave and point guns at people. def not when you spray paint the tip black to look real. But as officials you cannot drive up that close and trigger happy.

Saddletramp
01-01-2016, 03:30 AM
The reason there's less crime in any American Chinatown is because those neighborhoods police themselves. You have a problem with a business associate or neighbor in Chinatown? You don't go to the cops. Jesus, people.

mngopher35
01-01-2016, 03:38 AM
Happened like that in Ferguson too. Funny how they do that?

Ha thats actually the post Flea was referencing I believe (couldn't find it earlier). So when I say it is the job of the prosecutor what I should of said is it is up to the prosecutor on if it goes to trial (as flea mentioned many times with cops they take it to grand jury).

Ya, I have a huge issue with how that works. It needs to be fixed IMO or else prosecutors will continue to get cops off, possibly even when they are guilty (not necessarily saying this time it is, but the possibility is clearly there).

AIRMAR72
01-01-2016, 03:56 AM
Maybe black people should quit waving guns around.

And white people should stop making the guns

tdg823
01-01-2016, 03:57 AM
ahh, the age old excuse of socio-economic factors as a reason for criminal activity.
let's use Chinatown NYC as an example then. large minority population, coming to the city/country with nothing but the shirt on their backs, barely speak a word of english, but low crime rates. why aren't the front pages of NY papers flooded with Chinese on Chinese violence?
it's far easier to blame whitey and the cops than to look within the culture and see where the failure lies.
no talk of having children out of wedlock, single parent households, focus on education. no, because you is a sell out if you speak proper english, is I right?

there are nations where the average person has far less than what our average welfare recipient has, provided to them for FREE (food, rent, cell phones, spending money) and violence isn't a problem because they're not focused on having the latest Jordan kicks and playing knock out games, is I right?

socio-economic factors, or racism, aren't the reason for inner city problems. it's cultural.Single parent houses and children out of wedlock....Before Reagan, voodoo (supply side) economics and free trade people could feel comfortable and secure raising a family. You got out of high school, rolled into a good paying, secure job at a factory and bought a house. Many people in such a situation would find a wife and start a family relatively soon. No investment in years of college or accumulation of great debt was needed. But Vietnam helped spread drugs in black communities, Reagan and O. North continued this trend. Reagan led the busting up of unions and in the name of "job creators" (that jokes on us) outsourced jobs and diverted taxes from economically productive social programs to economically draining trusts and shareholders. Without collective bargaining, workers lacked the leverage to fight back. Wages stagnated and declined and the 70% of the economy that is spending of discretionary income by the middle and lower classes dried up. The areas hit hardest were those hubs of manufacturing and minorities, big cities. As the means to provide for a family disappeared, so did the incentive to have one. Not that screwing stopped. It's human nature, you'd do the same. Without access to health care, contraceptives or mommy or daddy to sneak you off for a secret abortion (looking at you middle class white girls) these minorities were more prone to pregnancy. Fathers whose fathers and their father before them had never see someone actually be able to succeed by doing it the right way (Cosby show was special because only on TV could many poor blacks see that the could actually work hard and make it, reality was much harsher for most) did what they truly felt in their heart they had to do to be men and fathers. And right or wrong, it wasn't go make enough at Mcd's to spend responsibly and still not be able to feed your child halfway through the pay. The drugs were already there, black people didn't bring them there. Once again, in the same situation...People don't have the means to start families, whether they want to or not. People that many of you consider "bad" are really doing everything they can to be good and I've really truly seen that personally on more than one occasion. Bring back the Timken Plant, Hoover and Republic Steel and see if crime, absent fathers and drug use don't decline in Canton, Ohio and the surrounding area. Socioeconomic reasons are real, even if trying to think it through to the extent required to understand might make your head hurt.

AIRMAR72
01-01-2016, 04:06 AM
Who cares if Zimmerman threatens his wife with a shotgun (and other similar incidents). Tryvon got suspended from school for having a marijuana baggie, he's the real thug... you punkass raw flesh white fool wtf you trying start smelly wet dog

tdg823
01-01-2016, 04:08 AM
ahh, the age old excuse of socio-economic factors as a reason for criminal activity.
let's use Chinatown NYC as an example then. large minority population, coming to the city/country with nothing but the shirt on their backs, barely speak a word of english, but low crime rates. why aren't the front pages of NY papers flooded with Chinese on Chinese violence?
it's far easier to blame whitey and the cops than to look within the culture and see where the failure lies.
no talk of having children out of wedlock, single parent households, focus on education. no, because you is a sell out if you speak proper english, is I right?

there are nations where the average person has far less than what our average welfare recipient has, provided to them for FREE (food, rent, cell phones, spending money) and violence isn't a problem because they're not focused on having the latest Jordan kicks and playing knock out games, is I right?

socio-economic factors, or racism, aren't the reason for inner city problems. it's cultural.Eduaction? Know anything about school funding? Do you know the way that public schools are funded in Ohio is so unfair it's been deemed unconstitutional? And that nothing's changed? You should look into some of that stuff. And please, please, please address the issue of full employment and cyclical poverty. Do you understand what I mean when I say that ghettos and poverty classes are required in certain numbers to make our economy work? Whether these people are lazy or not, they are a product of the system. They have to exist in the state they are in for us to have affordable goods and services, right or wrong. If everyone in the country woke up today and had a fire under their butt, swore off bad habits worked hard, was the definition of responsible...Every single person in the country, no one left acting "lazy, worthless, etc." Do you realize that the welfare and unemployment numbers would barely budge? Homelessness, hunger, most anything associated with "those people" would stay the same. That means that the system is the issue. Sure plenty of people in that system might be an issue to, but if you fix them, the system produces the same results anyway. Tweak the system and you tweak the outcome. This is a very important point that many people who cast blame ignore or don't understand. So I'm asking, do you understand this? IF so and you disagree, please explain.

tdg823
01-01-2016, 04:31 AM
Then there's the psychology of being poor... short term satisfaction and questionable spending habits almost make sense and aren't nearly as ridiculous as thought. If you're going to be broke Thursday no matter what, does it matter if you're broke Wednesday too? So by something small and petty Tuesday, screw it, it's one of the few times you'll feel good about something this week. Too much junk food on food stamps (I remember ripping them out of the book as a kid btw), but do you know how expensive it is to eat healthy? Eat at McD's because the grocery store is too far away, I can only get a ride there occasionally (ever tried to grocery shop on a bus? As a kid I'd just steal the shopping cart if it was too much to carry on my 3 mile walk), oh and there's an Arab (or Korean or whatever foreign store owner stereotype applies for you) store around the corner with food, but it's mostly junk too and twice the price. People lack self esteem from never having anything and being disrespected and stepped on their whole lives so they have rims and flashy jewelry. It's the only status and respect that they see as attainable, it's something to provide them with some sense (however petty) of self worth. It's a poor decision, but a reasonable person can at least see the thought process that took them from A to B. I understand you expect better of people, but if you put 100,000 people in any difficult situation a large % won't make it. Don't use the few that do to dismiss the reality facing those left behind or dismiss the reality that it's a difficult situation and not everyone has, or can be expected to overcome extraordinary circumstances. Heck, I've experienced a lot of this and still was probably born on first or second base compared to others I grew up around. That so many of you are so sadistically critical of those that don't let's face it excel, is somewhere between infuriating and depressing. You have NO idea what these people face but wish them harm (indirectly) anyway. You know what "getting by" will get you being raised in a poor neighborhood? At best it might keep you out of jail and with a stable residence. You have to excel to do what you people want. Most of you don't excel, you get by but you want so much more form certain other people? Why? Because they are different than you? Hmm...

tdg823
01-01-2016, 04:34 AM
ahh, the age old excuse of socio-economic factors as a reason for criminal activity.
let's use Chinatown NYC as an example then. large minority population, coming to the city/country with nothing but the shirt on their backs, barely speak a word of english, but low crime rates. why aren't the front pages of NY papers flooded with Chinese on Chinese violence?
it's far easier to blame whitey and the cops than to look within the culture and see where the failure lies.
no talk of having children out of wedlock, single parent households, focus on education. no, because you is a sell out if you speak proper english, is I right?

there are nations where the average person has far less than what our average welfare recipient has, provided to them for FREE (food, rent, cell phones, spending money) and violence isn't a problem because they're not focused on having the latest Jordan kicks and playing knock out games, is I right?

socio-economic factors, or racism, aren't the reason for inner city problems. it's cultural. And here's my first use of the R word today. If it's cultural you're saying that blacks just have it hard wired into them to be ******* u*s right? Like genetically? Dr. Murray can you please clarify because that's almost textbook racism as I see it...

mngopher35
01-01-2016, 04:37 AM
you punkass raw flesh white fool wtf you trying start smelly wet dog

settle down, it was sarcasm. A poster before had tried to use a suspension (or similar) due to a marijuana baggie to take a shot at Trayvons character. Not only is that dumb in itself IMO, but he also completely ignores the very checkered past of Zimmerman

Redrum187
01-01-2016, 05:13 AM
And white people should stop making the guns

Do you blame gun manufacturers for domestic violence with firearms? Do you wish they were prosecuted? Is the gun (or toy as a lot of people are wanting to call it) manufacturer to blame for Tamir pointing his gun at other people and shooting at cars? Do Tamir AND his parents have any responsibility or is it entirely on the gun manufacturers?

prodigy
01-01-2016, 05:40 AM
Do you blame gun manufacturers for domestic violence with firearms? Do you wish they were prosecuted? Is the gun (or toy as a lot of people are wanting to call it) manufacturer to blame for Tamir pointing his gun at other people and shooting at cars? Do Tamir AND his parents have any responsibility or is it entirely on the gun manufacturers?

This. Cops were in the wrong too, but common now. Lets not act like this kid did nothing wrong. It sucks, hate to see a young person die.

Crazy thing is when that one guy was thrown in the back of a police van by a black cop, and van driven by a black cop, white cops were still blamed. It is what it is, We all need to stop the hate from both sides.

Redrum187
01-01-2016, 05:50 AM
Single parent houses and children out of wedlock....Before Reagan, voodoo (supply side) economics and free trade people could feel comfortable and secure raising a family. You got out of high school, rolled into a good paying, secure job at a factory and bought a house. Many people in such a situation would find a wife and start a family relatively soon. No investment in years of college or accumulation of great debt was needed. But Vietnam helped spread drugs in black communities, Reagan and O. North continued this trend. Reagan led the busting up of unions and in the name of "job creators" (that jokes on us) outsourced jobs and diverted taxes from economically productive social programs to economically draining trusts and shareholders. Without collective bargaining, workers lacked the leverage to fight back. Wages stagnated and declined and the 70% of the economy that is spending of discretionary income by the middle and lower classes dried up. The areas hit hardest were those hubs of manufacturing and minorities, big cities. As the means to provide for a family disappeared, so did the incentive to have one. Not that screwing stopped. It's human nature, you'd do the same. Without access to health care, contraceptives or mommy or daddy to sneak you off for a secret abortion (looking at you middle class white girls) these minorities were more prone to pregnancy. Fathers whose fathers and their father before them had never see someone actually be able to succeed by doing it the right way (Cosby show was special because only on TV could many poor blacks see that the could actually work hard and make it, reality was much harsher for most) did what they truly felt in their heart they had to do to be men and fathers. And right or wrong, it wasn't go make enough at Mcd's to spend responsibly and still not be able to feed your child halfway through the pay. The drugs were already there, black people didn't bring them there. Once again, in the same situation...People don't have the means to start families, whether they want to or not. People that many of you consider "bad" are really doing everything they can to be good and I've really truly seen that personally on more than one occasion. Bring back the Timken Plant, Hoover and Republic Steel and see if crime, absent fathers and drug use don't decline in Canton, Ohio and the surrounding area. Socioeconomic reasons are real, even if trying to think it through to the extent required to understand might make your head hurt.

I agree with a decent amount of what you're saying (mostly about Reagan), but um... no. You seem to sugarcoat and/or give a pass for bad decision making. It's one thing to intellectually understand why people make bad decisions (which I fully believe you do btw), it's another to alleviate full responsibility for their actions.

As for the bold part, I would most definitely NOT do the same. I'm not sure why you think rational and responsible human beings would continue to have unprotected sex when the means to have a family isn't available. Is it because the poor people (White, Black, Hispanic, etc...) do it? The major reason why these kids resort to making bad choices is first and foremost their parents (the majority of the time). I know some ridiculously poor families with mother and father in the home who actually teach their children how to make good decisions. Hell, I even know single parent mothers who do the exact same.

When tragedies like this happen, people want a scapegoat. They are hurting inside for the loss of a 12 year old boy, his family, etc... It's so easy to blame a cop for doing what is 100% authorized, than it is to blame an already mourning parent (or parents). Many would think it would be insensitive to point blame at the parents, but I argue it's insensitive to NOT bring attention to parents like them.

I feel terrible for Tamir's parents. I would 100% guarantee that if Tamir's parents had the ability to go back in time and do a redo, they would most definitely change their parenting and/or teach Tamir to know better than to do what he did the day he died. I'm not judging them and saying they were bad parents, but show me a troubled youth, I'll show you a troubled home.

Lastly, I also feel terrible for the cop. He did what I would want MY dad to do if he was in that situation. Protect the community as well as himself above all else, within standard protocol procedure (as he did). The cop had to live with the prospect of going to jail for doing his damn job. He has to live with (justifiably) killing a 12 year old kid for the rest of his life. Unless this cop is a sociopath (which I'm sure the haters will think he is), this will affect him mentally. If he is married, I almost guarantee it'll affect his marriage in one shape or form as well.

tdg823
01-01-2016, 06:03 AM
So you would practice abstinence if reasonable means of protection weren't available to you? Well judging by the success of abstinence only sex ed and promise keepers or whatever that group is called I'm going to just state that I'm very skeptical. I'm sure you would approach it with that mindset, but let's be honest short of fugly or disease, abstinence ain't happenin' for you r anyone else. But that unrealistic moral high ground is a secure place to preach from, right?
It's not about giving a pass on poor decision making. It's about understanding the thought process that leads one to poor decision, the conditions influencing those thoughts, understanding that there are 10's if not 100's of millions of people in this very country dealing with these no-good choice thought processes and decisions and realizing that a certain percentage of the aren't bad people but aren't exemplars either and fail to live up to your standards. How do people get to the point of making poor decisions? Is it genetic or can environmental and social issues play the major factor? If it's the latter than I'm right or at least in the ballpark. If I'm not than the racists of the world are right. It's either naturally within them or acting on them from outside of themselves, genetic or environmental. Without declaring absolutes, pick a side that you feel is the major driving force and stake your ground. Conservatives offer cuts and taking things away from normal people but they leave out the results. What they really desire, in all honesty is that those that they don't like simply go somewhere out of sight and die quietly. Liberals just want some of someone else's money. Neither is noble, but I find it an easy choice.

Redrum187
01-01-2016, 06:15 AM
So you would practice abstinence if reasonable means of protection weren't available to you? Well judging by the success of abstinence only sex ed and promise keepers or whatever that group is called I'm going to just state that I'm very skeptical. I'm sure you would approach it with that mindset, but let's be honest short of fugly or disease, abstinence ain't happenin' for you r anyone else. But that unrealistic moral high ground is a secure place to preach from, right?

There are other things to do that don't involve ejaculating inside a female. If I can't even afford a condom it's a no brainer that finishing inside a female is not going to happen. You call it "taking the moral high ground" by somehow twisting this to mean I'd be abstinent, I call it being pragmatic and responsible. For someone as articulate as you are in your post, I am confused why you think "abstinence" is the only other alternative or that I was somehow implying that. :laugh:

Also, there are many FREE clinics (especially in low SES areas) that give away contraception. If you can't afford a condom, you can't afford to take the chance of producing life. Do you disagree?

Lastly, just because you are would ultimately have unprotected sex when you couldn't handle the ramifications of sex, doesn't mean everyone else will ignore reason/logic. Speak for yourself.

tdg823
01-01-2016, 06:23 AM
The pulling out method doesn't exactly have a great track record either if you didn't hear. Try doing just oral stuff for awhile and see how long you and your girl last before you give in. There's is one Planned Parenthood in my area, it stopped offering condoms awhile ago (budget cuts probably), everyone knows the STD clinic downtown, go there and get condoms if you want to be seen there and have a ride. Don't know anywhere else. Many states don't actually have easily accessible clinics and such in poor areas for those without a car (especially I believe in the south). You assume easy solutions without actually being able to understand.

Redrum187
01-01-2016, 06:26 AM
It's not about giving a pass on poor decision making. It's about understanding the thought process that leads one to poor decision, the conditions influencing those thoughts, understanding that there are 10's if not 100's of millions of people in this very country dealing with these no-good choice thought processes and decisions and realizing that a certain percentage of the aren't bad people but aren't exemplars either and fail to live up to your standards. How do people get to the point of making poor decisions? Is it genetic or can environmental and social issues play the major factor? If it's the latter than I'm right or at least in the ballpark. If I'm not than the racists of the world are right. It's either naturally within them or acting on them from outside of themselves, genetic or environmental. Without declaring absolutes, pick a side that you feel is the major driving force and stake your ground. Conservatives offer cuts and taking things away from normal people but they leave out the results. What they really desire, in all honesty is that those that they don't like simply go somewhere out of sight and die quietly. Liberals just want some of someone else's money. Neither is noble, but I find it an easy choice.

If it's not a free pass, do you have any condemnation? How does one fix something they don't acknowledge as broken? Do you think creating excuses or reasons helps to rise above their conditions? Nope, if you've been involved in any sort of rehabilitation program, you'd know your way of thinking is toxic for people like you're describing. It's great to understand (which you've clearly shown) why people make bad decisions, but what good is stating the reason and/or excuse if there is no accountability and plan to change their terrible decision making?

You're essentially saying to the over-weight man that says, "I'm 400 lbs, this twinkie isn't going to do anything more really." has a somewhat reasonable point (you don't think it's absurd and fully faulty). No, he is 400 lbs and a twinkie will be perpetuating his dysfunction. It's irrational and illogical to think that the twinkie will have no affect on him because he's already 400 lbs. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, it keeps him at the status quo... how is the status quo working for him exactly? =/

tdg823
01-01-2016, 06:39 AM
People by like the trillions have had sex throughout human history without really being able to handle the consequences. You act like having irresponsible sex isn't a distinctly human trait. It always has been. It's not about me and my decision making. It's being honest and realistic about what's going to happen with large groups of people. If 10 million people have little access to contraceptive care it's absurd to think that 99% of them will proceed sexually responsibly no matter their race, age, upbringing or income level. You will have lots and lots of unplanned pregnancies. Problem and Fact. Solution please? I'm not speaking for you or me, just like I'm not speaking for anyone when I say people will develop bacteria from hygiene issues. "Well I wash my ***** regularly, speak for yourself that you don't bathe". Nope, doesn't work like that, we are imperfect creatures, some more than others. How we accept approach and deal with it says volumes about us individually and as a society.

Redrum187
01-01-2016, 06:45 AM
The pulling out method doesn't exactly have a great track record either if you didn't hear. Try doing just oral stuff for awhile and see how long you and your girl last before you give in. There's is one Planned Parenthood in my area, it stopped offering condoms awhile ago (budget cuts probably), everyone knows the STD clinic downtown, go there and get condoms if you want to be seen there and have a ride. Don't know anywhere else. Many states don't actually have easily accessible clinics and such in poor areas for those without a car (especially I believe in the south). You assume easy solutions without actually being able to understand.

What makes you think I don't understand? Do you think I'm impotent (I don't have desires like any other healthy male)? I don't know of these clinics that offer free condoms?

Speaking for just myself, if I was unable to afford a condom and there were no clinics within a 10 light year radius, of course me and my girl would want to have sex. Two things would happen: A.) I'd sell plasma just to buy some condoms, or B.) it would encourage me exponentially more to get any sort job where I had income coming in TO have sex. This isn't a moral high ground, it's just being responsible and pragmatic. Understand the difference.

Also, if your desire is so great that you'd be willing to have unprotected sex, who gives a crap who sees you at the STD clinic? Anyone at the STD clinic either has an STD or wants what you went there for, condoms. You're going to be irresponsible and potentially bring a life into this world when you aren't even able to afford a condom ALL because you don't want people to see you there. Yikes... :confused:

tdg823
01-01-2016, 06:54 AM
When I condemn it falls mostly along the lines of crimes of intent (very bad) vs. crimes of passion (not as bad).
Rehab is great for the individual but societally it's largely useless band aid. If you don't address the social conditions that cause addiction, you'll just cycle in new addicts to replace old ones. If think large scale, so yeah my advice might not be the best at the personal level, but it's not intended for that. I'm actually quite harsh on individuals usually, just lenient in a macro sense.
The fat guy needs first to realize that he has a problem and second to develop a broader gameplan for his physical and emotional well being. Given those things, I don't care if he has the twinkie.

Redrum187
01-01-2016, 06:57 AM
People by like the trillions have had sex throughout human history without really being able to handle the consequences. You act like having irresponsible sex isn't a distinctly human trait. It always has been. It's not about me and my decision making. It's being honest and realistic about what's going to happen with large groups of people. If 10 million people have little access to contraceptive care it's absurd to think that 99% of them will proceed sexually responsibly no matter their race, age, upbringing or income level. You will have lots and lots of unplanned pregnancies. Problem and Fact. Solution please? I'm not speaking for you or me, just like I'm not speaking for anyone when I say people will develop bacteria from hygiene issues. "Well I wash my ***** regularly, speak for yourself that you don't bathe". Nope, doesn't work like that, we are imperfect creatures, some more than others. How we accept approach and deal with it says volumes about us individually and as a society.

1.) I never said or implied having unprotected sex is a distinct human trait. How am I acting like it is? Because some people can think pragmatically and understand the consequences of just doing whatever feels right?

2.) If you think contraception is as rare or as difficult as you're trying to make it sound, you know less about it than I originally gave you credit for. You even used the excuse of not wanting to be seen at an STD clinic as if it's a reasonable explanation to NOT go there and use it.

3.) Of course it's absurd to think 99% of people will be sexually responsible without contraception. Hell, giving everyone in the world a lifetime supply of condoms won't even yield close to 99% of people actually using it. You'll have people that think with their smaller head more than pragmatically, saying, "Naw, it doesn't feel as good with a condom babe. I'm not wearing it."

Your solution is no solution. You understand why it is the way it is, but throw your hands up and say "well, they are going to do that anyways... it's historically been done". My solution is to educate within the home. If children are taught in the home, there isn't a guarantee they will retain it, but there is an exponentially greater chance that they do! To pretend like there isn't a correlation between in home teaching/parenting and better decision making is to ignore reality.

Redrum187
01-01-2016, 07:08 AM
One more thing before I go. I do agree that SES plays a huge variable here, I just think it's the easier excuse to use. You can't change the economy individually... but you can change what happens in and what is being taught in the home. As stated earlier, I can easily show you several families from just my personal life/experience that are way below the poverty line, yet because of the parents being proactive in raising their children, their kids make good decisions. That is the variable that RARELY if ever gets talked about in the media.

Rush
01-01-2016, 07:30 AM
How do you think officers in countries where the police don't carry guns would deal with that situation? Just out of interest.

Pepper spray or taser are the two that come to mind. Personally, the taser would be the way to go for me. Unfortunately, not all police departments can carry tasers.

For example, the SFPD are not allowed to carry tasers because the people voted against it. Now due to that, they shot and killed a man wielding a knife who had just previously stabbed someone and came at an officer. If the police had the taser as an option he may be alive today. I really don't have any sympathy for that man, but there very well may be less killings if it were an alternative.

tdg823
01-01-2016, 07:45 AM
You're still making assumption about means and resources that not everyone has, but I admit I do tire of this sex tangent. If you accept social and environmental causes it somewhat undermines earlier arguments. Somewhat. I understand that human behavior is not often responsible and pragmatic. I also have solutions but they are far too socialistic for your liking I bet, beyond being largely incompatible with our current system. I'm about to the point of giving up on solutions and praying for a revolution honestly, but I have a young son and he's tamed some of my more militant desires. Beyond which you never actually addressed the economic component of my argument, which is the cause that all effects follow.

D-Leethal
01-01-2016, 12:49 PM
lmao there's a war on cops? cop deaths are down this year 3% (by gunfire down by 17%), while Illinois and Maryland (where black on black violence is pretty prevelant) accounted for 6 of the 129 deaths...

and you do realize stop and frisk never stopped, right? they still have it although they have decreased frequency (while maintaining a heavy bias towards african americans and hispanic americans). and since they started decreasing the frequency of the stops in 2011 the crime rate and murder rate has been decreasing steadily each year ("dropping from 515 in 2011 to 419 the next year, 335 in 2013 and 333 last year").

but yeah, the whole "war on cops" notion is hilarious

By "war on cops" I didn't mean a widespread coordinated attack on cops. I meant the stigmatization of our police force, the public condemnation of the police from its leaders (Mayors these big cities, President Obama). Morale in the police force is in the toilet (although I'd say Obama's policies as a whole has devastated morale across every sector of this country), police funding and budgets are getting slashed across the board, I would imagine the allure of a once-proud career as a police officer has also gone into the toilet, scrutiny of the use of force have made officers take a reactive approach rather than an offensive approach (which makes everyone less safe on the streets). The "war on cops" is a mentality that cops are the enemy. I don't think anyone could argue that is where we currently stand amongst a huge portion of our population, and that has residual effects that make us all less safe.

You are right - I misspoke about Stop and Frisk, it has not been abandoned, just ruled unconstitutional on a federal level and scaled back completely. Did you ever think that maybe the stop and frisk policies targeted high crime neighborhoods that just so happened to be inhabited by minorities? Or are you one of those guys that thinks a white dude on wall street should be frisked for a gun the same way a loiterer on a known drug dealing street corner should? You sound like you would rather be politically correct than logical and effective.

I've also never seen anything that tells me shootings or violent felonies are down in any of the major crime cities. I'd like to see where you are getting your information.

http://c9.nrostatic.com/sites/default/files/black-lives-matter-murder-rates.png

Redrum187
01-01-2016, 03:08 PM
You're still making assumption about means and resources that not everyone has, but I admit I do tire of this sex tangent. If you accept social and environmental causes it somewhat undermines earlier arguments. Somewhat. I understand that human behavior is not often responsible and pragmatic. I also have solutions but they are far too socialistic for your liking I bet, beyond being largely incompatible with our current system. I'm about to the point of giving up on solutions and praying for a revolution honestly, but I have a young son and he's tamed some of my more militant desires. Beyond which you never actually addressed the economic component of my argument, which is the cause that all effects follow.

True, I didn't go in depth about SES because I actually agreed a lot with what you were saying about it. It is a crucial variable here. You hit the nail on the head on why they do what they do. It's just that on the macro, an individual can't change society or capitalism, BUT they can change their own life via their decision making. Between SES and proactive parents, proactive parents are the independent variable here. Even the richest of parents aren't as better off as poor parents that are proactively involved in their children's lives. I think this is a testament to how more vital parents are than the SES of the family.

blahblahyoutoo
01-01-2016, 03:24 PM
they are a product of their culture. education starts at home, not at school.
other minorities are able to do more with less. they don't even speak the language so they're already at a disadvantage, but yet within a few years, they will have accelerated past those who have been on the government dole for generations because they value self reliance an hard work.
i know it's a popular argument of liberals, but stop shifting the blame others and start looking within.


Eduaction? Know anything about school funding? Do you know the way that public schools are funded in Ohio is so unfair it's been deemed unconstitutional? And that nothing's changed? You should look into some of that stuff. And please, please, please address the issue of full employment and cyclical poverty. Do you understand what I mean when I say that ghettos and poverty classes are required in certain numbers to make our economy work? Whether these people are lazy or not, they are a product of the system. They have to exist in the state they are in for us to have affordable goods and services, right or wrong. If everyone in the country woke up today and had a fire under their butt, swore off bad habits worked hard, was the definition of responsible...Every single person in the country, no one left acting "lazy, worthless, etc." Do you realize that the welfare and unemployment numbers would barely budge? Homelessness, hunger, most anything associated with "those people" would stay the same. That means that the system is the issue. Sure plenty of people in that system might be an issue to, but if you fix them, the system produces the same results anyway. Tweak the system and you tweak the outcome. This is a very important point that many people who cast blame ignore or don't understand. So I'm asking, do you understand this? IF so and you disagree, please explain.

blahblahyoutoo
01-01-2016, 03:26 PM
And here's my first use of the R word today. If it's cultural you're saying that blacks just have it hard wired into them to be ******* u*s right? Like genetically? Dr. Murray can you please clarify because that's almost textbook racism as I see it...

first off, culture is not synonymous with race. get your facts straight.
secondly, yes. inner city ghetto black culture (different from non-ghetto afraican american black or african black culture) is toxic. lets see you argue this one.

ATX
01-01-2016, 03:36 PM
^^^Can we get someone to ban this racist from spreading his anti African American agenda?

blahblahyoutoo
01-01-2016, 05:05 PM
^^^Can we get someone to ban this racist from spreading his anti African American agenda?

african americans are a race? or are cultures a race? i'm confused. edumacate me plz.

G_S_W
01-01-2016, 05:36 PM
They are policed more. Middle class and upper class neighborhoods carry and do drugs at the same rate as poor blacks. They commit traffic offenses at the same rates. Police actually police heavier in poor and minority areas. It's simple math and common sense that many (not all) of the crime stats will be higher for them because of this. If they did stop and frisk in the suburbs and actually prosecuted, you'd have a lot of white kids trying to figure out how to get a job with a criminal record. But you know facts are racist...

Blacks commit more crime in every country they inhabit. This is true not only in the US, but in canada and great britain. Let's not even mention the entire continent of Africa. The difference in crime rates are not small. Blacks commit 3X to 4X more violent crimes than their white counterparts.

European countries and Europeans commit fewer crimes than blacks across the board, and Asians and Asian countries commit the fewest crimes.

This has nothing to do with being "policed more." Take a look at South Africa. The police force is almost exclusively black yet black crime rates are the highest in the world per capita.

tdg823
01-01-2016, 09:13 PM
they are a product of their culture. education starts at home, not at school.
other minorities are able to do more with less. they don't even speak the language so they're already at a disadvantage, but yet within a few years, they will have accelerated past those who have been on the government dole for generations because they value self reliance an hard work.
i know it's a popular argument of liberals, but stop shifting the blame others and start looking within.If you put my words in the little grey box in your response, why didn't you answer 99% of the questions in that box?

"first off, culture is not synonymous with race. get your facts straight."Fair point, my error I concede that one. Then is it race or culture? If it's culture than whites in similar situations might be likely to act the same yes? Is it too obvious where I'm leading you here?

"they are a product of their culture. education starts at home, not at school.
other minorities are able to do more with less. they don't even speak the language so they're already at a disadvantage, but yet within a few years, they will have accelerated past those who have been on the government dole for generations because they value self reliance an hard work."
To address this would require me rehashing too many of my previous posts

"Blacks commit more crime in every country they inhabit."

Never heard that one before, curious to look into it, but still largely fits under most of what I've said previously. Are blacks typically lower on the socioeconomic scale? Than their crime rates will be higher. And colonialism has stripped many of those countries of their resources and stability and set them back 100 years. So yeah they might be a little backwards. But don't let world conditions get in the way of racism.

G_S_W
01-01-2016, 10:09 PM
If you put my words in the little grey box in your response, why didn't you answer 99% of the questions in that box?

"first off, culture is not synonymous with race. get your facts straight."Fair point, my error I concede that one. Then is it race or culture? If it's culture than whites in similar situations might be likely to act the same yes? Is it too obvious where I'm leading you here?

"they are a product of their culture. education starts at home, not at school.
other minorities are able to do more with less. they don't even speak the language so they're already at a disadvantage, but yet within a few years, they will have accelerated past those who have been on the government dole for generations because they value self reliance an hard work."
To address this would require me rehashing too many of my previous posts

"Blacks commit more crime in every country they inhabit."

Never heard that one before, curious to look into it, but still largely fits under most of what I've said previously. Are blacks typically lower on the socioeconomic scale? Than their crime rates will be higher. And colonialism has stripped many of those countries of their resources and stability and set them back 100 years. So yeah they might be a little backwards. But don't let world conditions get in the way of racism.

Typically lower on the socioeconomic scale? More like always, at least on average.

In the case of South Africa, colonialism brought roads, schools, hospitals, clothing, literacy, along with the mining industry. How many centuries had africans been living there without even knowing that diamonds were there, much less able to mine them?

Now that the blacks are in power, the economy is in shambles, society is in total chaos and the rate of crime is astronomical.

G_S_W
01-01-2016, 10:12 PM
In south africa, there are 563,000 rapes every year. The white population is just 4%. Not too difficult who's responsible for the crime there.

Redrum187
01-01-2016, 10:13 PM
If you put my words in the little grey box in your response, why didn't you answer 99% of the questions in that box?

"first off, culture is not synonymous with race. get your facts straight."Fair point, my error I concede that one. Then is it race or culture? If it's culture than whites in similar situations might be likely to act the same yes? Is it too obvious where I'm leading you here?

"they are a product of their culture. education starts at home, not at school.
other minorities are able to do more with less. they don't even speak the language so they're already at a disadvantage, but yet within a few years, they will have accelerated past those who have been on the government dole for generations because they value self reliance an hard work."
To address this would require me rehashing too many of my previous posts

"Blacks commit more crime in every country they inhabit."

Never heard that one before, curious to look into it, but still largely fits under most of what I've said previously. Are blacks typically lower on the socioeconomic scale? Than their crime rates will be higher. And colonialism has stripped many of those countries of their resources and stability and set them back 100 years. So yeah they might be a little backwards. But don't let world conditions get in the way of racism.

I know you think SES is the biggest issue (and apparently you think it has more impact than parents parenting in the home as well)... so I have to ask... Is it easier to change an entire world economy or to change one individual's life?

No one (or at least I'm not) is saying that life is easy for Blacks around the world. No one is saying there aren't obstacles to climb. No one is saying that there haven't been historical injustices. The real question, do we sit back and regurgitate the same exact reasons for why people make bad decisions or do we give realistic council to our children in the home? To me, spewing the reasons (which we totally agree with btw) and pawning them off as excuses for their bad decisions is counter-productive. It does absolutely no good other than make the people who are making bad decisions feel a little bit better about themselves. This does not evoke change in their lives whatsoever. Would you rather the people making bad decisions feel superficially good for the moment, or would you rather they change their lives for the better?

G_S_W
01-01-2016, 10:20 PM
I know you think SES is the biggest issue (and apparently you think it has more impact than parents parenting in the home as well)... so I have to ask... Is it easier to change an entire world economy or to change one individual's life?

No one (or at least I'm not) is saying that life is easy for Blacks around the world. No one is saying there aren't obstacles to climb. No one is saying that there haven't been historical injustices. The real question, do we sit back and regurgitate the same exact reasons for why people make bad decisions or do we give realistic council to our children in the home? To me, spewing the reasons (which we totally agree with btw) and pawning them off as excuses for their bad decisions is counter-productive. It does absolutely no good other than make the people who are making bad decisions feel a little bit better about themselves. This does not evoke change in their lives whatsoever. Would you rather the people making bad decisions feel superficially good for the moment, or would you rather they change their lives for the better?

You put it rather more politely, but yeah, it's always far easier to blame whitey than to take responsibility for your own actions.

Never mind that you've been waving around an AK replica all day, pointing it at people, pointing it at a park, shooting at automobiles, then walking rapidly towards a cop and reaching for it in your waistband.

All that's whitey's fault.

Redrum187
01-01-2016, 10:22 PM
Lets put the two variables into perspective (SES and teaching in the home).

1.) Will having a higher SES improve parents being proactive in their children's lives? No. Talk to a wealthy White kid and you'll see similar dysfunction as you would in a lower SES home.

Will having parents who are proactive in their children's lives help teach them to make better decisions? Absolutely! I don't even think you could argue this for the majority of cases.

2.) Will having a higher SES automatically make children learn to make better decisions? No. There is a story about a homeless man who was given a significant amount of cash. People were curious if he'd actually use it to better his life. Unfortunately, it all went away and he was homeless again. Of course this is just one story, but he isn't unique. Look at professional athletes. A lot of them make millions and spend money at an incredible rate. They grew up poor and now they get the means to buy everything they ever wanted. At the conclusion of their career, they end up going broke. SES doesn't teach people to make better decisions.

Will parents teaching their children the dos and don'ts, the rights and wrongs, have a significant impact on children learning to make better decisions? Absolutely! If our parents aren't the ones who mold our minds and develop our moral compass, who is suppose to do it? The schools?

If you catch this theme, waving a wand and magically giving all Black people a higher SES won't alleviate all or even most of their problems. Parents being teachers to their children is an exponentially greater tool.

G_S_W
01-01-2016, 10:29 PM
Lets put the two variables into perspective (SES and teaching in the home).

1.) Will having a higher SES improve parents being proactive in their children's lives? No. Talk to a wealthy White kid and you'll see similar dysfunction as you would in a lower SES home.

Will having parents who are proactive in their children's lives help teach them to make better decisions? Absolutely! I don't even think you could argue this for the majority of cases.

2.) Will having a higher SES automatically make children learn to make better decisions? No. There is a story about a homeless man who was given a significant amount of cash. People were curious if he'd actually use it to better his life. Unfortunately, it all went away and he was homeless again. Of course this is just one story, but he isn't unique. Look at professional athletes. A lot of them make millions and spend money at an incredible rate. They grew up poor and now they get the means to buy everything they ever wanted. At the conclusion of their career, they end up going broke. SES doesn't teach people to make better decisions.

Will parents teaching their children the dos and don'ts, the rights and wrongs, have a significant impact on children learning to make better decisions? Absolutely! If our parents aren't the ones who mold our minds and develop our moral compass, who is suppose to do it? The schools?

If you catch this theme, waving a wand and magically giving all Black people a higher SES won't alleviate all or even most of their problems. Parents being teachers to their children is an exponentially greater tool.

You're ignoring the role of biology. Blacks are more aggressive, impulsive and socially dominant.

Who do you think are participating in the knockout game? It's black male teens and young adults.

This suggests that the parents of black kids are also more impulsive and aggressive than their white and asian counterparts.

There are well known cases in the nfl for example, of two players, one of whom knocked his wife out cold in an elevator and simply dragged her out like an animal. Another beat his child viciously, until he was bleeding.

tdg823
01-01-2016, 10:35 PM
Alright, we're starting to beat a dead horse here with all the environment/outcome stuff, I think we're all just repeating ourselves there. Be happy to keep it going if I must, but let's pivot a bit. What about the economics of it, that there has to be a poverty class in a capitalistic country? Read my "light a fire under their butts" post again and respond to that please. The system produces losers or creative destruction. No matter how hard they try someone in our system will be a loser. Does that mean it's still always their fault?

G_S_W
01-01-2016, 10:38 PM
Alright, we're starting to beat a dead horse here with all the environment/outcome stuff, I think we're all just repeating ourselves there. Be happy to keep it going if I must, but let's pivot a bit. What about the economics of it, that there has to be a poverty class in a capitalistic country? Read my "light a fire under their butts" post again and respond to that please. The system produces losers or creative destruction. No matter how hard they try someone in our system will be a loser. Does that mean it's still always their fault?

Economically speaking, a disproportionate percentage of those "losers" as you put it, are of african and hispanic ancestry.

And no, it's not their fault. It just means that blacks and hispanics aren't as capable intellectually and of course will tend to suffer in a technologically advanced society.

PurpleLynch
01-01-2016, 10:38 PM
You're ignoring the role of biology. Blacks are more aggressive, impulsive and socially dominant.

Who do you think are participating in the knockout game? It's black male teens and young adults.

This suggests that the parents of black kids are also more impulsive and aggressive than their white and asian counterparts.

There are well known cases in the nfl for example, of two players, one of whom knocked his wife out cold in an elevator and simply dragged her out like an animal. Another beat his child viciously, until he was bleeding.

Mmm,I see,another Trump's brainwashed slave.
Good luck USA,it will be hard for you with people like this poster having the right to vote.

PS:I'm white and I live in Italy.

PS2:I probably fed a troll,sorry for that.

tdg823
01-01-2016, 10:41 PM
Typically lower on the socioeconomic scale? More like always, at least on average.

In the case of South Africa, colonialism brought roads, schools, hospitals, clothing, literacy, along with the mining industry. How many centuries had africans been living there without even knowing that diamonds were there, much less able to mine them?

Now that the blacks are in power, the economy is in shambles, society is in total chaos and the rate of crime is astronomical. So you think colonialism was a benefit for those countries, huh? I was intent on leaving all this stuff alone, but really? Of course that was how they thought right? Your typical colonial overseer? "those backwards negros, why without us, what would they have? It's a blessing that we enslave them, take their resources, eradicate their culture and leave no semblance of stability when we leave". You sir were born in the wrong era. You would have been great heading a plantation or one of those big ships the sharks followed in the Atlantic. Maybe you'd do better as a reconstruction era white domestic terrorist?

G_S_W
01-01-2016, 10:42 PM
Mmm,I see,another Trump's brainwashed slave.
Good luck USA,it will be hard for you with people like this poster having the right to vote.

PS:I'm white and I live in Italy.

PS2:I probably fed a troll,sorry for that.

Unfortunate, you cannot refute the facts. Better to engage in name calling and tap out.

G_S_W
01-01-2016, 10:45 PM
http://stuffblackpeopledontlike.blogspot.com/2012/05/black-people-responsible-for-virtually.html

"In Atlanta, African-Americans are 54 percent of the population, but are responsible for 100 percent of homicide, 95 percent of rape, 94 percent of robbery, 84 percent of aggravated assault, and 93 percent of burglary.
Source: APD Uniform Crime Reports, Apr 2011 to Apr 2012"

tdg823
01-01-2016, 11:05 PM
You're ignoring the role of biology. Blacks are more aggressive, impulsive and socially dominant.
Who do you think are participating in the knockout game? It's black male teens and young adults.

This suggests that the parents of black kids are also more impulsive and aggressive than their white and asian counterparts.

There are well known cases in the nfl for example, of two players, one of whom knocked his wife out cold in an elevator and simply dragged her out like an animal. Another beat his child viciously, until he was bleeding.Give someone enough rope...

You think that blacks are biologically predisposed to being **** ups then right? Like it's born into them a part of their genes is to be angry, have poor impulse control and... who knows. That is undeniably racist, which is fine. I prefer people be who they are and not be deceptive. No race is "biologically" inclined towards anything. Period. Japanese aren't better at math, they spend more time in school. Blacks aren't better athletes, they have less access to after school programs, extracurriculars and other socially occupying activities and spend more time on average playing sports and being physical. Theses are all examples of soft racism that we mostly accept. No race has any type of biological disposition. Groups that live in relatively isolated areas and don't have a wide exchange of genes can perpetuate traits for a finite time (provided some genetic diversity is introduced or develops). Widen the gene pool, even within that one specific race, and these traits aren't distinguishable over time. I believe it's Sweden or one of those countries is an interesting example of genetic isolation perpetuating traits (blond hair, blue eyes). Only a racist mindset (actively or not, consciously or not) can lead you to make such a statement. Write that one down and read it when you're an old man, it might make you tear up for having been such an *** as a younger man.

tdg823
01-01-2016, 11:10 PM
http://stuffblackpeopledontlike.blogspot.com/2012/05/black-people-responsible-for-virtually.html

"In Atlanta, African-Americans are 54 percent of the population, but are responsible for 100 percent of homicide, 95 percent of rape, 94 percent of robbery, 84 percent of aggravated assault, and 93 percent of burglary.
Source: APD Uniform Crime Reports, Apr 2011 to Apr 2012"
Without even checking the link, I highly doubt that in Atlanta not ONE nonwhite person committed a homicide. Not one, huh? 95% of rape? I might get on a domestic terrorist watch list if I click on your link, no thanks.

tdg823
01-01-2016, 11:11 PM
When you watch basketball, do you just see trained monkeys out there on the court? They are so well behaved though! They speak so well! Credit to whatever white person reprogrammed them to act like that...

G_S_W
01-01-2016, 11:14 PM
Give someone enough rope...

You think that blacks are biologically predisposed to being **** ups then right? Like it's born into them a part of their genes is to be angry, have poor impulse control and... who knows. That is undeniably racist, which is fine. I prefer people be who they are and not be deceptive. No race is "biologically" inclined towards anything. Period. Japanese aren't better at math, they spend more time in school. Blacks aren't better athletes, they have less access to after school programs, extracurriculars and other socially occupying activities and spend more time on average playing sports and being physical. Theses are all examples of soft racism that we mostly accept. No race has any type of biological disposition.

I don't know what rock you've been living under, but as one of the more obvious examples, let's take the nba. What percentage of nba players are white and asian? What percentage are black?

Chinese are 1/5 of the world's population. What percentage of nba players are of chinese ancestry? What percentage are of asian ancestry since the nba's inception?

Take a look at international crime statistics, or crime statistics anywhere, blacks are massively overrepresented.

These are patterns true everywhere around the world, and have been so for many centuries.

Look at greg oden. He is barely able to walk but can post the equivalent of nba all star numbers as a professional in china. Sub nba level scrubs can post mvp caliber numbers in china.

tdg823
01-01-2016, 11:18 PM
I lied, I clicked on the link. My response hasn't changed. Not a credible site anyway. Spend some time in the comments section of that site...Wow! Those your people GSW? That the crowd you run with? Yeah, I'm never comin' to party with you...

tdg823
01-01-2016, 11:23 PM
I don't know what rock you've been living under, but as one of the more obvious examples, let's take the nba. What percentage of nba players are white and asian? What percentage are black?

Chinese are 1/5 of the world's population. What percentage of nba players are of chinese ancestry? What percentage are of asian ancestry since the nba's inception?

Take a look at international crime statistics, or crime statistics anywhere, blacks are massively overrepresented.

These are patterns true everywhere around the world, and have been so for many centuries.

Look at greg oden. He is barely able to walk but can post the equivalent of nba all star numbers as a professional in china. Sub nba level scrubs can post mvp caliber numbers in china.Given the back and forth we've had I have zero idea what Greg Oden playing ball in China has to do with anything, but hey...

First show me evidence of these patterns in contrast to whites in similar situations, I have a feeling you're cherry picking information Second you are aware that I've addressed that point already right? If you refute it fine, but don't dismiss its existence.

G_S_W
01-01-2016, 11:24 PM
The facts are indisputable. Ignoring them makes you just that. Ignorant.

tdg823
01-01-2016, 11:27 PM
I don't know what rock you've been living under, but as one of the more obvious examples, let's take the nba. What percentage of nba players are white and asian? What percentage are black?

Chinese are 1/5 of the world's population. What percentage of nba players are of chinese ancestry? What percentage are of asian ancestry since the nba's inception?

Take a look at international crime statistics, or crime statistics anywhere, blacks are massively overrepresented.

These are patterns true everywhere around the world, and have been so for many centuries.

Look at greg oden. He is barely able to walk but can post the equivalent of nba all star numbers as a professional in china. Sub nba level scrubs can post mvp caliber numbers in china.
And you do understand genetics right? I mean I just know the very basics, but are you up to speed there? Because you didn't really address that. You just said Chinese don't play pro ball. I did touch on that point in the post you just got done reading. It's what people do, not how they are born (mostly). Black folks don't roll out of the womb able to dunk or do a crossover (Believe it or not!). That would be genetic.

blahblahyoutoo
01-01-2016, 11:31 PM
https://iq-research.org/en/page/average-iq-by-country
don't know if it's genetics. could be environmental, nutritional, who knows.

but if we can accept that there are biological/physiological differences between races (blacks have bigger noses, lips, penises, more testosterone and are larger than whites and asians in general), then I wouldn't be surprised if there were differences at an intellectual level.



Give someone enough rope...

You think that blacks are biologically predisposed to being **** ups then right? Like it's born into them a part of their genes is to be angry, have poor impulse control and... who knows. That is undeniably racist, which is fine. I prefer people be who they are and not be deceptive. No race is "biologically" inclined towards anything. Period. Japanese aren't better at math, they spend more time in school. Blacks aren't better athletes, they have less access to after school programs, extracurriculars and other socially occupying activities and spend more time on average playing sports and being physical. Theses are all examples of soft racism that we mostly accept. No race has any type of biological disposition. Groups that live in relatively isolated areas and don't have a wide exchange of genes can perpetuate traits for a finite time (provided some genetic diversity is introduced or develops). Widen the gene pool, even within that one specific race, and these traits aren't distinguishable over time. I believe it's Sweden or one of those countries is an interesting example of genetic isolation perpetuating traits (blond hair, blue eyes). Only a racist mindset (actively or not, consciously or not) can lead you to make such a statement. Write that one down and read it when you're an old man, it might make you tear up for having been such an *** as a younger man.

tdg823
01-01-2016, 11:47 PM
Alright, I only screw with you guys when I'm bored at work. Getting ready to leave, can't get too in-depth, but Charles Murray's work has been discredited since the Bell Curve came out. Will find the data on that when I come back to work. IQ tests are have somewhat of an inherent cultural bias. Look that up yourself if you're impatient.

tdg823
01-01-2016, 11:57 PM
https://iq-research.org/en/page/average-iq-by-country
don't know if it's genetics. could be environmental, nutritional, who knows.

but if we can accept that there are biological/physiological differences between races (blacks have bigger noses, lips, penises, more testosterone and are larger than whites and asians in general), then I wouldn't be surprised if there were differences at an intellectual level.

Just wrong....so, so wrong... Everything you type just screams bigotry through and through. I wonder how many cringes you've caused people reading your posts? I reference the gene pool thing again, never figured out what your familiarity with genetics is though. 99% of what you cited is perception not reality and the 1% (if I cede that which I don't necessarily) would be do to limited genetic exchange and heavy genetic manipulation (by slave owners) during the slave days. We are only a handful of generations removed from that so there might, might (again, I'm skeptical) be a residual affect. Continents I'm going to go out on a limb here, share genetic traits more so. What I'm saying is location is more important than race in perpetuating traits among generations. Once again that is a soft, gentle, benevolent racism at work. Sometimes blacks perpetuate it themselves for short term gain and long term detriment.

Redrum187
01-01-2016, 11:58 PM
You're ignoring the role of biology. Blacks are more aggressive, impulsive and socially dominant.

Who do you think are participating in the knockout game? It's black male teens and young adults.

This suggests that the parents of black kids are also more impulsive and aggressive than their white and asian counterparts.

There are well known cases in the nfl for example, of two players, one of whom knocked his wife out cold in an elevator and simply dragged her out like an animal. Another beat his child viciously, until he was bleeding.

Do you have any studies I can read that suggest biological factors as a reason for Blacks being more aggressive/impulsive/socially dominant?

tdg823
01-02-2016, 12:00 AM
Richard and Tatu argues that differences in national income are correlated with differences in the average national intelligence quotient (IQ).
You do realize that of the like 10 sentences next to your chart that this one discrediting one is in there right? That this plays into what I've been saying all along? Who's side are you on anyway?

Redrum187
01-02-2016, 12:06 AM
Alright, we're starting to beat a dead horse here with all the environment/outcome stuff, I think we're all just repeating ourselves there. Be happy to keep it going if I must, but let's pivot a bit. What about the economics of it, that there has to be a poverty class in a capitalistic country? Read my "light a fire under their butts" post again and respond to that please. The system produces losers or creative destruction. No matter how hard they try someone in our system will be a loser. Does that mean it's still always their fault?

I agree with the economics issue. There are winners and losers in capitalism, or it simply doesn't work. Fortunately for us (but not the rest of the world), US losers will be the cream of the crop in the majority of other countries in the world. The losers won't affect the US to the same degree it affects other countries because our large economy.

This macro view of economy isn't going to change any time soon. It's ridiculous to even debate this because for the revolution you're seeking, it'll need a WWIII only it'll be civil wars in every country, trying to take down the establishment that is a proponent of capitalism.

I don't mean to beat a dead horse, but I believe individually helping one's self is a much more realistic and pragmatic solution. Perhaps when enough people have changed themselves, they can look at the bigger picture... but that isn't even close to being the case.

G_S_W
01-02-2016, 12:57 AM
Well, that is the whole point of blm. It's to bring down "the system." This means creating racial strife, destroying any trust in authority, and insisting upon hippie dippie concepts such as "everyone is equal." Which is clearly as far from reality as it gets.

G_S_W
01-02-2016, 12:59 AM
Just wrong....so, so wrong... Everything you type just screams bigotry through and through. I wonder how many cringes you've caused people reading your posts? I reference the gene pool thing again, never figured out what your familiarity with genetics is though. 99% of what you cited is perception not reality and the 1% (if I cede that which I don't necessarily) would be do to limited genetic exchange and heavy genetic manipulation (by slave owners) during the slave days. We are only a handful of generations removed from that so there might, might (again, I'm skeptical) be a residual affect. Continents I'm going to go out on a limb here, share genetic traits more so. What I'm saying is location is more important than race in perpetuating traits among generations. Once again that is a soft, gentle, benevolent racism at work. Sometimes blacks perpetuate it themselves for short term gain and long term detriment.

This is absolutely incorrect. Look at crime rates of blacks in africa, europe and north america. Violent crime rates for blacks are typically fourfold what they are for whites in european countries. In Africa, well, they are astronomical.

G_S_W
01-02-2016, 01:05 AM
Do you have any studies I can read that suggest biological factors as a reason for Blacks being more aggressive/impulsive/socially dominant?

Look up philippe rushton on youtube. There are numerous of his talks available. They all summarize his book Race, Evolution and Behavior. Quite interesting.

Blacks are taller, wider shouldered, narrower hips, longer limbs, bigger hands, faster reflexes, more muscular, run faster, jump higher than whites and asians.

The adage white men can't jump is correct, at least compared to blacks. There have been a few exceptional leapers among whites, but typically top white players get by on the basis of IQ and skillset (dirk, bird, mchale, nash, stockton, etc.).

Redrum187
01-02-2016, 01:10 AM
Look up philippe rushton on youtube. There are numerous of his talks available. They all summarize his book Race, Evolution and Behavior. Quite interesting.

Blacks are taller, wider shouldered, narrower hips, longer limbs, bigger hands, faster reflexes, more muscular, run faster, jump higher than whites and asians.

The adage white men can't jump is correct, at least compared to blacks. There have been a few exceptional leapers among whites, but typically top white players get by on the basis of IQ and skillset (dirk, bird, mchale, nash, stockton, etc.).

Okay, but you're saying biological factors are responsible for their aggression, impulsion, and social dominance. Those have nothing to do with genetic traits like you're mentioning in this post. Where is the link exactly?

G_S_W
01-02-2016, 01:18 AM
Okay, but you're saying biological factors are responsible for their aggression, impulsion, and social dominance. Those have nothing to do with genetic traits like you're mentioning in this post. Where is the link exactly?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t1mgrTGeDPM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9FGHtfnYWY

Impulsivity, aggression and social dominance are a function of testosterone level. Blacks have higher levels of testosterone than asians and whites.

PurpleLynch
01-02-2016, 08:22 AM
Unfortunate, you cannot refute the facts. Better to engage in name calling and tap out.

The "facts"? Your "facts" are based on the theories of a professor who wrote that book you mentioned("Race,evolution,behavior")in 1995.
That book was almost uninamously labeled as scientific trash and anthropologically incorrect.
Stop talking like what you are saying is something of true,it is not and since you think that this book is scientifically relevant,read also the opposite opinions of other professors.

Do you know how is it categorized racial anthropology?As "pseudo-science". And you know why? Because it was born in the XIX sec in Europe and since then,countless studies showed how biased and scientifically incorrect it was and it is.
In 1980 there was also a sort of reprise of these theories,that's where your man is coming from,no surprise.

I think it's important also remembering the Pioneer Fund,an american no-profit foundation directed by Rushton from 2002 to his death in 2012. This foundation welcomed and founded some intellectuals who created masterpieces like "The testing of Negro Intelligence"(1958) and the magazine "The New Patriot"(1966-1967),with articles like "Early Jews and the rise of jewish money power".

I'm sorry for the name calling,but it felt so good after you wrote all that kind of weird stuff(black are more inclined to crime than others just because they biologically have more testosterone and so they are inclined to make acts of violence.My gosh! Why no one thought about that in all these years!Oh wait,just look at the history of racism and their scientific claims,dating back to the XIX sec as I already said).

I didn't tap out,I just feel like if I have to argue with someone who thinks that the Earth is flat in 2016,I'll take the "make fun of him" route instead of the "explaining in reasonable ways" one. It's just me,it's probably a deficiency I have and it's not good,but who is perfect after all?

Your political agenda is so blatant! At least user Lionel20 on the NFL forum masked his real intentions behind countless numbers and infinite stats. It felt way more professional.
You,right now,are talking like the stereotypical drunk uncle during family reunions.

blahblahyoutoo
01-02-2016, 01:30 PM
"The Whites who explored China were just as racist as those who explored Africa, but their descriptions were different from what they and the Arabs had written about Africans. In 1275 Marco Polo arrived in China from his native Italy to open trade with the Mongol Empire. He found that the Chinese had well built roads, bridges, cities connected by canals, census takers, markets, standardized weights and measures, and not only coins, but paper money as well. Even a postal system was in existence. All of these made him marvel when he compared the Chinese to what he saw in Europe and the Middle East.
Even though he was an Italian, proud of his people and well aware of the greatness of Ancient Rome, Marco Polo wrote: “Surely there is no more intelligent race on earth than the Chinese.”"

do we have accounts of what sub-suharan africa was like in the 1200-1300s?


The "facts"? Your "facts" are based on the theories of a professor who wrote that book you mentioned("Race,evolution,behavior")in 1995.
That book was almost uninamously labeled as scientific trash and anthropologically incorrect.
Stop talking like what you are saying is something of true,it is not and since you think that this book is scientifically relevant,read also the opposite opinions of other professors.

Do you know how is it categorized racial anthropology?As "pseudo-science". And you know why? Because it was born in the XIX sec in Europe and since then,countless studies showed how biased and scientifically incorrect it was and it is.
In 1980 there was also a sort of reprise of these theories,that's where your man is coming from,no surprise.

I think it's important also remembering the Pioneer Fund,an american no-profit foundation directed by Rushton from 2002 to his death in 2012. This foundation welcomed and founded some intellectuals who created masterpieces like "The testing of Negro Intelligence"(1958) and the magazine "The New Patriot"(1966-1967),with articles like "Early Jews and the rise of jewish money power".

I'm sorry for the name calling,but it felt so good after you wrote all that kind of weird stuff(black are more inclined to crime than others just because they biologically have more testosterone and so they are inclined to make acts of violence.My gosh! Why no one thought about that in all these years!Oh wait,just look at the history of racism and their scientific claims,dating back to the XIX sec as I already said).

I didn't tap out,I just feel like if I have to argue with someone who thinks that the Earth is flat in 2016,I'll take the "make fun of him" route instead of the "explaining in reasonable ways" one. It's just me,it's probably a deficiency I have and it's not good,but who is perfect after all?

Your political agenda is so blatant! At least user Lionel20 on the NFL forum masked his real intentions behind countless numbers and infinite stats. It felt way more professional.
You,right now,are talking like the stereotypical drunk uncle during family reunions.

Vee-Rex
01-02-2016, 02:34 PM
Lol wow people are racist. Anonymity on the internet allows it, since I'm sure 99% of it would never be said in front of black people in person.

Racism isn't just "hey let's hang all black people they're just monkeys!", it's more complex than that. The lack of education and proper parenting (it's a vicious cycle) is the primary reason why the black communities have these issues. Having grown up in like every horrible part of Cleveland (I'm black guys!!!11), I understand the nature of my fellow blacks and why they do the things they do.

I usually come down hard on them too, since there's no excuse to do some of the things they do. But I empathize, and the lack of empathy is usually the distinguishing factor in understanding. Racists don't sympathize or empathize.

Vee-Rex
01-02-2016, 02:48 PM
Lol wow people are racist. Anonymity on the internet allows it, since I'm sure 99% of it would never be said in front of black people in person.

Racism isn't just "hey let's hang all black people they're just monkeys!", it's more complex than that. The lack of education and proper parenting (it's a vicious cycle) is the primary reason why the black communities have these issues. Having grown up in like every horrible part of Cleveland (I'm black guys!!!11), I understand the nature of my fellow blacks and why they do the things they do.

I usually come down hard on them too, since there's no excuse to do some of the things they do. But I empathize, and the lack of empathy is usually the distinguishing factor in understanding. Racists don't sympathize or empathize.

Btw, I felt I needed to add this:

It's ridiculous to expect LBJ to sit out games because of this. The NBA is his career, and I'm sure BLM activists aren't quitting their jobs. Also as someone else mentioned, where do you draw the line? Should Durant sit out if something happens in Oklahoma City? Steph in Oakland? I like that LBJ gives his thoughts on these matters, but it's unfair to want him to stop/pause his career.

Another btw, Tamir's death was because of a corrupted person. Just because he was white doesn't mean all whites are corrupted or the entire Cleveland Police Department is corrupted. Poor parenting is a factor in this.

Regardless, I understand the movement from BLM (yes, all lives matter but the point is being missed if that's anyone's response), and I hope there's some positive changes happening as a result.

SportsFanatic10
01-02-2016, 03:46 PM
These dumb activists trying to get Lebron to sit out games and miss paychecks makes no sense, he should just laugh at them. It wouldn't be fair to the city of Cleveland, his teamates and the Cavs organization, let alone himself, and all NBA fans for him to do this. Also it wouldn't change anything either.

Redrum187
01-02-2016, 04:32 PM
Btw, I felt I needed to add this:

It's ridiculous to expect LBJ to sit out games because of this. The NBA is his career, and I'm sure BLM activists aren't quitting their jobs. Also as someone else mentioned, where do you draw the line? Should Durant sit out if something happens in Oklahoma City? Steph in Oakland? I like that LBJ gives his thoughts on these matters, but it's unfair to want him to stop/pause his career.

Another btw, Tamir's death was because of a corrupted person. Just because he was white doesn't mean all whites are corrupted or the entire Cleveland Police Department is corrupted. Poor parenting is a factor in this.

Regardless, I understand the movement from BLM (yes, all lives matter but the point is being missed if that's anyone's response), and I hope there's some positive changes happening as a result.

What is your reasoning for why the cop was corrupted out of curiosity?

G_S_W
01-02-2016, 04:44 PM
Lol wow people are racist. Anonymity on the internet allows it, since I'm sure 99% of it would never be said in front of black people in person.

Racism isn't just "hey let's hang all black people they're just monkeys!", it's more complex than that. The lack of education and proper parenting (it's a vicious cycle) is the primary reason why the black communities have these issues. Having grown up in like every horrible part of Cleveland (I'm black guys!!!11), I understand the nature of my fellow blacks and why they do the things they do.

I usually come down hard on them too, since there's no excuse to do some of the things they do. But I empathize, and the lack of empathy is usually the distinguishing factor in understanding. Racists don't sympathize or empathize.

I don't think anyone would disagree with this point. As a matter of fact, it was europeans who introduced schools, literacy, hospitals, roads, the entirety of the mining industry and civilization as we generally know it to south africa.

Now that the europeans were forced out of power, the blacks have reverted back to their previous patterns of behavior. Rape in south africa is the highest on the planet. The economy is in shambles. Investors are afraid to come anywhere near south africa.

The communist infiltrated ANC have made good on their promise to kill white farmers.

South Africa is a very interesting case study showing that yes, indeed, it is very likely that blacks are incapable of governing themselves. There is a distinct possibility that they simply lack the native intelligence.


If you look at the academic achievement of the racial groups: european, asian, african and mixed peoples (hispanics), the asians come out on top, whites are intermediate, and blacks invariably finish last.

This is the entire purpose of affirmative action. It is to allow blacks to enter elite universities since they cannot compete academically and gain admission otherwise.

G_S_W
01-02-2016, 05:15 PM
"The Whites who explored China were just as racist as those who explored Africa, but their descriptions were different from what they and the Arabs had written about Africans. In 1275 Marco Polo arrived in China from his native Italy to open trade with the Mongol Empire. He found that the Chinese had well built roads, bridges, cities connected by canals, census takers, markets, standardized weights and measures, and not only coins, but paper money as well. Even a postal system was in existence. All of these made him marvel when he compared the Chinese to what he saw in Europe and the Middle East.
Even though he was an Italian, proud of his people and well aware of the greatness of Ancient Rome, Marco Polo wrote: “Surely there is no more intelligent race on earth than the Chinese.”"

do we have accounts of what sub-suharan africa was like in the 1200-1300s?

Rushton also points out that the chinese had engaged in large scale exploration by sea in the 15th century well in advance of columbus. Admiral Zhang He commanded an extraordinary armada of dozens of ships, the largest being 400 feet long, 150 feet wide. Columbus, traveling nearly a century later, had ships only 90 feet by 30 feet, with a total crew of only 90 vs. He's 28,000 crew.

He's armada traveled to east africa, and had the capability to travel further south around south africa. However, imperial command decided that such a voyage was not advisable since there was no guarantee of financial return.

If they had done so, He's crew could have extended china's empire to europe.

G_S_W
01-02-2016, 05:23 PM
do we have accounts of what sub-suharan africa was like in the 1200-1300s?

The first explorers in East Africa wrote that they were shocked by the nudity, paganism, cannibalism, and poverty of the natives. Some claimed Blacks had the nature "of wild animals... most of them go naked... the child does not know his father, and they eat people." Another claimed they had a natural sense of rhythm so that if a Black "were to fall from heaven to earth he would beat time as he goes down." A few even wrote books and made paintings of Africans with over-sized sex organs. Sound familiar? All just a reflection of racism? Maybe so, but these examples are not from 19th Century European colonialists or KKK hate literature. They come from the Muslim Arabs who first entered Black Africa over 1,200 years ago (in the 700s), as detailed in Bernard Lewis's 1990 book, Race and Slavery in the Middle East.

Several hundred years later, European explorers had the same impressions. They wrote that Africans seemed to have a very low intelligence and few words to express complex thoughts. They praised some tribes for making fine pottery, forging iron, carving wooden art, and making musical instruments. But more often, they were shocked by the near nakedness of the people, their poor sanitary habits, simple houses, and small villages. They found no wheels for making pots, grinding corn, or for transport, no farm animals, no writing, no money, and no numbering systems.

G_S_W
01-02-2016, 05:32 PM
The "facts"? Your "facts" are based on the theories of a professor who wrote that book you mentioned("Race,evolution,behavior")in 1995.
That book was almost uninamously labeled as scientific trash and anthropologically incorrect.
Stop talking like what you are saying is something of true,it is not and since you think that this book is scientifically relevant,read also the opposite opinions of other professors.

Do you know how is it categorized racial anthropology?As "pseudo-science". And you know why? Because it was born in the XIX sec in Europe and since then,countless studies showed how biased and scientifically incorrect it was and it is.
In 1980 there was also a sort of reprise of these theories,that's where your man is coming from,no surprise.

I think it's important also remembering the Pioneer Fund,an american no-profit foundation directed by Rushton from 2002 to his death in 2012. This foundation welcomed and founded some intellectuals who created masterpieces like "The testing of Negro Intelligence"(1958) and the magazine "The New Patriot"(1966-1967),with articles like "Early Jews and the rise of jewish money power".

I'm sorry for the name calling,but it felt so good after you wrote all that kind of weird stuff(black are more inclined to crime than others just because they biologically have more testosterone and so they are inclined to make acts of violence.My gosh! Why no one thought about that in all these years!Oh wait,just look at the history of racism and their scientific claims,dating back to the XIX sec as I already said).

I didn't tap out,I just feel like if I have to argue with someone who thinks that the Earth is flat in 2016,I'll take the "make fun of him" route instead of the "explaining in reasonable ways" one. It's just me,it's probably a deficiency I have and it's not good,but who is perfect after all?

Your political agenda is so blatant! At least user Lionel20 on the NFL forum masked his real intentions behind countless numbers and infinite stats. It felt way more professional.
You,right now,are talking like the stereotypical drunk uncle during family reunions.

This is the typical reaction to Rushton's work. I am quite certain you have not read the book cited.

The reaction is a refusal to engage any of the facts and findings and simply to resort to name calling and mudslinging. As was the case with David Suzuki. As you can see, Rushton calmly and deliberately lays out the facts, while Suzuki and a number of members of the audience engaged in name calling and invective.

To their credit, a number of students did criticize Suzuki for his total lack of effort, and many did applaud Rushton.

Personally, I don't consider Rushton's work to be a work which either shows or intends to show, racial inferiority or superiority. It simply demonstrates that there are distinct, clear average differences which quite frankly are unmistakable.

Everyone recognizes these racial differences from an early age. But are only later brainwashed by liberal media and marxist professors that race is only skin deep.

Everyone else who still refuses to succumb are tarred and feathered into submission.

Here is the "debate"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9FGHtfnYWY

G_S_W
01-02-2016, 05:36 PM
Btw, I felt I needed to add this:

It's ridiculous to expect LBJ to sit out games because of this. The NBA is his career, and I'm sure BLM activists aren't quitting their jobs. Also as someone else mentioned, where do you draw the line? Should Durant sit out if something happens in Oklahoma City? Steph in Oakland? I like that LBJ gives his thoughts on these matters, but it's unfair to want him to stop/pause his career.

Another btw, Tamir's death was because of a corrupted person. Just because he was white doesn't mean all whites are corrupted or the entire Cleveland Police Department is corrupted. Poor parenting is a factor in this.

Regardless, I understand the movement from BLM (yes, all lives matter but the point is being missed if that's anyone's response), and I hope there's some positive changes happening as a result.

The goal of BLM (whether the activists themselves recognize this or not) is to destroy American society fromt he inside out. Their goal is to foment racial strife and division and to erode the authority of police and government.

And they are doing a damned good job of it, btw.

Vee-Rex
01-02-2016, 08:14 PM
What is your reasoning for why the cop was corrupted out of curiosity?

The cop's history and background.

PurpleLynch
01-02-2016, 09:32 PM
This is the typical reaction to Rushton's work. I am quite certain you have not read the book cited.

The reaction is a refusal to engage any of the facts and findings and simply to resort to name calling and mudslinging. As was the case with David Suzuki. As you can see, Rushton calmly and deliberately lays out the facts, while Suzuki and a number of members of the audience engaged in name calling and invective.

To their credit, a number of students did criticize Suzuki for his total lack of effort, and many did applaud Rushton.

Personally, I don't consider Rushton's work to be a work which either shows or intends to show, racial inferiority or superiority. It simply demonstrates that there are distinct, clear average differences which quite frankly are unmistakable.

Everyone recognizes these racial differences from an early age. But are only later brainwashed by liberal media and marxist professors that race is only skin deep.

Everyone else who still refuses to succumb are tarred and feathered into submission.

Here is the "debate"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9FGHtfnYWY


Rushton has not only contributed to American Renaissance publications and graced their conferences with his presence but also offered praise and support for the "scholarly" work on racial differences of Henry Garrett, who spent the last two decades of his life opposing the extension of the Constitution to blacks on the basis that the "normal" black resembled a European after frontal lobotomy. Informed of Garrett's assertion that blacks were not entitled to equality because their "ancestors were ... savages in an African jungle," Rushton dismissed the observation as quoted "selectively from Garrett's writing", finding nothing opprobrious in such sentiments because the leader of the scientific opposition to civil rights had made other statements about black inferiority that were, according to Rushton, "quite objective in tone and backed by standard social science evidence." Quite apart from the questionable logic in defending a blatant call to deprive citizens of their rights by citing Garrett's less offensive writing—as if it were evidence of Ted Bundy's innocence that there were some women he had met and not killed—there was no sense on Rushton's part that all of Garrett's assertions, whether or not "objective," were utterly irrelevant to constitutional guarantees, which are not predicated on scientific demonstrations of intellectual equality.-William H. Tucker

It's really difficult having a debate like this via PSD,that's why I post this. Futhermore,it's impossible having a correct scientific discussion if one of the debater has a strong political agenda like Rushton had.

PurpleLynch
01-02-2016, 09:46 PM
Also,white collar crime is a bigger problem than crimes commited by blacks as far as I know.

I mean,if I had to ask,this world economy crisis was more on blacks or white?
Because I'm really sure it's the latter. But that doesn't mean that white people are evil or more inclined to **** you with subprime mortgages.
You should take a stroll in a white supremacist rally,just to see if they are different from the savages you imagine blacks to be.
Probably the truth is that as humans, we're all animals,some can restrain themselves from dangerous social behavior while others don't. It doesn't matter the colour of your skin.
Ah right,China,who gives home to more than a billion of chinese people,is also one of the biggest country for human trafficking. Weren't they more intelligent than us? AT least,Rushton said it like that,first asians,then white and last blacks.

Back on topic,Lebron should do whatever he wants,there isn't no obligation for him.

G_S_W
01-02-2016, 09:59 PM
Rushton has not only contributed to American Renaissance publications and graced their conferences with his presence but also offered praise and support for the "scholarly" work on racial differences of Henry Garrett, who spent the last two decades of his life opposing the extension of the Constitution to blacks on the basis that the "normal" black resembled a European after frontal lobotomy. Informed of Garrett's assertion that blacks were not entitled to equality because their "ancestors were ... savages in an African jungle," Rushton dismissed the observation as quoted "selectively from Garrett's writing", finding nothing opprobrious in such sentiments because the leader of the scientific opposition to civil rights had made other statements about black inferiority that were, according to Rushton, "quite objective in tone and backed by standard social science evidence." Quite apart from the questionable logic in defending a blatant call to deprive citizens of their rights by citing Garrett's less offensive writing—as if it were evidence of Ted Bundy's innocence that there were some women he had met and not killed—there was no sense on Rushton's part that all of Garrett's assertions, whether or not "objective," were utterly irrelevant to constitutional guarantees, which are not predicated on scientific demonstrations of intellectual equality.-William H. Tucker

It's really difficult having a debate like this via PSD,that's why I post this. Futhermore,it's impossible having a correct scientific discussion if one of the debater has a strong political agenda like Rushton had.

You don't provide any evidence of Rushton's supposed "strong political agenda" You say that Garrett has a political agenda. Do you not understand that they are two different people? Also, the bizarre comparison to Ted Bundy is a very weak ad hominem attack, very typical of the morally righteous liberal marxist left.

I find it informative that leftists oppose creationism and christianity being taught in schools, advocate teaching evolution then claim that humans are totally immune from any evolutionary/environmental pressures.

mike_noodles
01-02-2016, 10:02 PM
Using your celebrity for the betterment of society is a terrific thing and I have a lotta respect for Lebron, however, this is not the right way to do it.

JWO35
01-02-2016, 10:05 PM
Looking through this thread....what the actual ****?

G_S_W
01-02-2016, 10:09 PM
Also,white collar crime is a bigger problem than crimes commited by blacks as far as I know.

I mean,if I had to ask,this world economy crisis was more on blacks or white?
Because I'm really sure it's the latter. But that doesn't mean that white people are evil or more inclined to **** you with subprime mortgages.
You should take a stroll in a white supremacist rally,just to see if they are different from the savages you imagine blacks to be.
Probably the truth is that as humans, we're all animals,some can restrain themselves from dangerous social behavior while others don't. It doesn't matter the colour of your skin.
Ah right,China,who gives home to more than a billion of chinese people,is also one of the biggest country for human trafficking. Weren't they more intelligent than us? AT least,Rushton said it like that,first asians,then white and last blacks.

Back on topic,Lebron should do whatever he wants,there isn't no obligation for him.

To try to address as many of your points as possible:

1. white collar crime or even the biggest criminal racket of all the ponzi scheme known as the federal reserve, takes us away from the topic at hand: which is Tamir Rice, blm and lbj.

It is well known that jews are massively overrepresented among billionaires, control the federal reserve, control puppet politicians like obama, and have perpetrated the massive fraud otherwise known as the holocaust.

The crimes of jews far outweighs those of blacks to a degree that is almost unfathomable. They were also heavily involved in the leadership of the communist revolution which took the lives of some 30 million europeans. Ironic that they engaged in such slaughter while constantly reminding people of the holocaust that they supposedly suffered through.

Jews such as David Stern and Adam Silver control the NBA as well. Jews love to promote multiculturalism and racial acceptance, since they are typically outsiders and cannot operate effectively if their unwillingness to adopt national loyalties is ever scrutinized.

2. Your ethnicity, race and therefore your genetic inheritance has an enormous impact on your behavior, intelligence and temperament. This is true whether you are talking about blacks in the US, the UK, Africa or the Caribbean. Asians in the US, Canada, England, or in Asia all have similar temperament and intelligence.


3. crime exists in all countries, among all peoples. I am simply stating that there are average differences between groups, not that any group is totally free of crime or that every individual of a single group is a criminal. That's ludicrous.

G_S_W
01-02-2016, 10:10 PM
Using your celebrity for the betterment of society is a terrific thing and I have a lotta respect for Lebron, however, this is not the right way to do it.

Fortunately, lebron chose not to speak to the subject for the moment. A wise decision indeed.