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kdspurman
12-30-2015, 03:54 PM
Wednesday December 30th, 2015


Clippers @ Hornets
7:00PM


Nets @ Magic
7:00PM


Lakers @ Celtics
7:30 PM
NBA TV


Wizards @ Raptors
7:30 PM


Pacers @ Bulls
8:00PM


Jazz @ Wolves
8:00PM


Suns @ Spurs
8:30 PM


Warriors @ Mavs
8:30 PM


Nuggets @ Blazers
10:00PM
NBA TV


76ers @ Kings
10:00PM

tredigs
12-30-2015, 07:18 PM
Warriors @ Mass? Skipping the game and going to church to pray for quick Curry's return I see. Probably the right call.

kdspurman
12-30-2015, 07:28 PM
Warriors @ Mass? Skipping the game and going to church to pray for quick Curry's return I see. Probably the right call.

Haha nice catch :laugh2:

Did the thread from my phone... freaking auto correct. Thanks

Edit: definitely auto correct. I see it showed " Sunset @ Spurs" too

tredigs
12-30-2015, 07:50 PM
Haha. Because you know it's lights out for the Suns. I'm on to you ; )

jerellh528
12-30-2015, 08:40 PM
Kobes last game in boston, let's go! One of the few wins I want this season.

Chronz
12-30-2015, 10:36 PM
Clips are 3-0 since Blake went down, not sure what to make of that but sometimes I feel like its overkill having both he and CP3 with so many deficits throughout the rest of the roster. We can survive without Blake alot more than we can without CP3, that much is clear.

kdspurman
12-30-2015, 10:38 PM
Haha. Because you know it's lights out for the Suns. I'm on to you ; )

Didn't think of it, buts that's probably gonna be the case after the first half of action I've seen

tredigs
12-30-2015, 10:45 PM
Dubs down 18 at the half. I remember this feeling.

bgdreton
12-30-2015, 11:00 PM
If today doesn't show you who the mvp of the league is I just dont know what to say..... good game Mavs

kdspurman
12-30-2015, 11:43 PM
If today doesn't show you who the mvp of the league is I just dont know what to say..... good game Mavs

That's how we were last year without Kawhi. .500 ball club without him. MVP criteria just isn't that clear. This season, most knew Curry was the MVP already thus far due to how well he's played

zn23
12-31-2015, 12:04 AM
Games like this are why Klay Thompson can not be considered "The best SG in the game". He's simply not. He's a role player who benefits in this system as the 2nd or 3rd option on the team behind Steph. He's easier to shut down because he's not as fast, he doesn't have the dribbling skills to win one on one matchups.

Give me James Harden, DWade and Jimmy butler over Klay any day of the week.

kdspurman
12-31-2015, 12:12 AM
Games like this are why Klay Thompson can not be considered "The best SG in the game". He's simply not. He's a role player who benefits in this system as the 2nd or 3rd option on the team behind Steph. He's easier to shut down because he's not as fast, he doesn't have the dribbling skills to win one on one matchups.

Give me James Harden, DWade and Jimmy butler over Klay any day of the week.

It's was a pretty crappy showing by him after making those comments lol

SG position is pretty weak now overall but I just don't think he's the best either, I'd take Harden/Butler too for sure. Tomorrow going against Houston maybe he'll play better. Especially if Harden is defending him

Redrum187
12-31-2015, 12:15 AM
Wes Matthews was cloaked all over Klay Thompson. Thompson is not even close to having enough talent to be the best SG in the league, but he has a case for one of the best shooters at the SG position.

Both teams were without their starting PGs but losing Curry is obviously a bigger hit. Nevertheless, I give the Mavericks credit for annihilating the champions.

tredigs
12-31-2015, 12:36 AM
That's how we were last year without Kawhi. .500 ball club without him. MVP criteria just isn't that clear. This season, most knew Curry was the MVP already thus far due to how well he's played
Not that Kawhi doesn't have huge impact, but you guys were also missing Tony Parker for most of the games Kawhi missed as well. Looking at the starting lineups during his missed games and it's a lot of Cory Joseph/Danny Green/Kyle Anderson/Duncan. That's just not going to get it done, especially with how good the West was last year.

As for the Dubs game, a big problem with the lineup tonight is that with Livingston at PG, it takes away the Warriors best play which is the Curry/Draymond PnR at the 3pt line. Normally both players double Steph on that PnR and Curry gives it back to Green with a wide open lane to the rim or an open pass to one of the 3pt shooters if their man collapses. But the PnR is useless with Shaun since he can't shoot a 3, so there's no point to guard him out there. They just go under the screen and/or stay on Draymond. A lot of similar actions to that just make this offense bleh without Curry, despite being fantastic as complimentary pieces to him. If Curry ever did miss significant time they'd have to get a PG with a sure-fire 3pt shot to at least attempt a Warriors-lite offense.

tredigs
12-31-2015, 12:46 AM
Wes Matthews was cloaked all over Klay Thompson. Thompson is not even close to having enough talent to be the best SG in the league, but he has a case for one of the best shooters at the SG position.

Both teams were without their starting PGs but losing Curry is obviously a bigger hit. Nevertheless, I give the Mavericks credit for annihilating the champions.

Lol yes, I'd say it's fair to say "he has a case as one of the best shooters at the SG position". Ever.

That said, I'll be the first to say he's not the leagues best SG. I don't think very many people would think otherwise.

bgdreton
12-31-2015, 12:46 AM
If today doesn't show you who the mvp of the league is I just dont know what to say..... good game Mavs

That's how we were last year without Kawhi. .500 ball club without him. MVP criteria just isn't that clear. This season, most knew Curry was the MVP already thus far due to how well he's played

Yeah everyone was lost on offense and Klay just decided to chuck away forcing shots instead of letting it come to him

kdspurman
12-31-2015, 12:49 AM
Not that Kawhi doesn't have huge impact, but you guys were also missing Tony Parker for most of the games Kawhi missed as well. Looking at the starting lineups during his missed games and it's a lot of Cory Joseph/Danny Green/Kyle Anderson/Duncan. That's just not going to get it done, especially with how good the West was last year.

As for the Dubs game, a big problem with the lineup tonight is that with Livingston at PG, it takes away the Warriors best play which is the Curry/Draymond PnR at the 3pt line. Normally both players double Steph on that PnR and Curry gives it back to Green with a wide open lane to the rim or an open pass to one of the 3pt shooters if their teammate collapses. But the PnR is useless with Shaun since he can't shoot a 3, so there's no point to guard him out there. They just go under the screen and/or stay on Draymond. A lot of similar actions to that just make this offense bleh without Curry, despite being fantastic as complimentary pieces to him. If Curry ever did miss significant time they'd have to get a PG with a sure-fire 3pt shot to at least attempt a Warriors-lite offense.

Yea, but without Kawhi, it's an absolute night/day scenario, especially defensively. Teams scored on us with ease without him. Without TP and with Kawhi, they would've faired much better. The responsibility and impact Currys has offensively is what we were missing defensively.

Re: Warriors, do you think Klay could handle some PnR duties with Dray? I know he isn't near the playmaker or ball handler Curry is, but it'd at the very least keep teams honest running that

kdspurman
12-31-2015, 12:50 AM
Yeah everyone was lost on offense and Klay just decided to chuck away forcing shots instead of letting it come to him

Tomorrow should be better. Sometimes you want to show people you can be the guy too and try and force it. I didn't catch all the game, but if that's what Klay did, that probably had something to do with it

tredigs
12-31-2015, 01:02 AM
Yea, but without Kawhi, it's an absolute night/day scenario, especially defensively. Teams scored on us with ease without him. Without TP and with Kawhi, they would've faired much better. The responsibility and impact Currys has offensively is what we were missing defensively.

Re: Warriors, do you think Klay could handle some PnR duties with Dray? I know he isn't near the playmaker or ball handler Curry is, but it'd at the very least keep teams honest running that
Yeah, there's no doubt Kawhi >>> TP's impact, it just puts a team in a bad spot when you're missing multiple starters and have guys in the starting lineup who don't belong. Same thing with Barnes also missing tonight for GSW. Only without Curry + Barnes it looks like the Dubs might be a lot worse off than TP + Kawhi.

For the PnR, do you mean Draymond or Andre? Neither player are really strong enough in taking a player in ISO or hitting contested 3's to allow it to work unfortunately. But Andre and Barnes are the guys that the Warriors like to go to as the screen setting player instead of Draymond if a team tries to hide a center on them (like Bogut guarding Tony Allen). That's sort of what Cleveland did in the Finals by just leaving Iguodala open and overloading Curry.

kdspurman
12-31-2015, 01:13 AM
Yeah, there's no doubt Kawhi >>> TP's impact, it just puts a team in a bad spot when you're missing multiple starters and have guys in the starting lineup who don't belong. Same thing with Barnes also missing tonight for GSW. Only without Curry + Barnes it looks like the Dubs might be a lot worse off than TP + Kawhi.

For the PnR, do you mean Draymond or Andre? Neither player are really strong enough in taking a player in ISO or hitting contested 3's to allow it to work unfortunately. But Andre and Barnes are the guys that the Warriors like to go to as the screen setting player instead of Draymond if a team tries to hide a center on them (like Bogut guarding Tony Allen). That's sort of what Cleveland did in the Finals by just leaving Iguodala open and overloading Curry.

I meant Green. Like Klay/Green at the 3 point line, since you mentioned Curry does it a lot with him. Or even a Pick n Pop at the key, I know Green is a much improved shooter. How is he in the post btw? With less spacing, having someone to go down low a bit might not be a bad thing. I know Livingston with his size does some damage at times there

Hopefully it's only a couple games at most Curry misses, but I'm curious to see what Luke/Kerr plan to do without him tomorrow.

Wade n Fade
12-31-2015, 01:48 AM
I took the 76ers, Lakers, and Nuggets to win tonight. Almost had all three. If I had taken the Nuggets against the spread, I would've won. Who thought w/o Okafor, the 76ers could beat the Kings?

More-Than-Most
12-31-2015, 02:30 AM
I took the 76ers, Lakers, and Nuggets to win tonight. Almost had all three. If I had taken the Nuggets against the spread, I would've won. Who thought w/o Okafor, the 76ers could beat the Kings?

They had Oka.. He had 10 points/10 Rebounds.... Its the fact we actually have a legit PG now and not a damn dleague player running our team

Saddletramp
12-31-2015, 02:42 AM
Tomorrow should be better. Sometimes you want to show people you can be the guy too and try and force it. I didn't catch all the game, but if that's what Klay did, that probably had something to do with it

Even with Curry out (I think he'll still be out?) Klay should fare better because it's different being guarded against Harden as it is against Matthews and Klay isn't concerned with proving he's better than Matthews. Klay will want to eat Harden alive.


The Rockets are garbage this year, though so I bet the Warriors still win. God damn it.



(And yes, I know you know all of this already but I'm already a bottle deep so I guess I need to skedaddle on to other things before I go back to that LeBron thread.)

Redrum187
12-31-2015, 03:11 AM
If Curry ever did miss an extended period of time, I would love to see Klay be more of a ball handler, doing some of the pick and roll with Green. He needs experience as being the number 1 defensive focal point. It'll come in handy come playoff time (especially the Finals).

goingfor28
12-31-2015, 03:15 AM
Tonight clearly showed Klay is not a viable #1 option.

AnthonyTyrael2
12-31-2015, 03:26 AM
Games like this are why Klay Thompson can not be considered "The best SG in the game". He's simply not. He's a role player who benefits in this system as the 2nd or 3rd option on the team behind Steph. He's easier to shut down because he's not as fast, he doesn't have the dribbling skills to win one on one matchups.

Give me James Harden, DWade and Jimmy butler over Klay any day of the week.

You're def right that he's not #1 but then there are games when he's in the computer game modus. Arcade level. Harden can be a pain in the ***, in a negative way, too.

2-ONE-5
12-31-2015, 11:01 AM
I took the 76ers, Lakers, and Nuggets to win tonight. Almost had all three. If I had taken the Nuggets against the spread, I would've won. Who thought w/o Okafor, the 76ers could beat the Kings?

Okafor played and had a double double in 20 min. Played his best D this year too.

Vee-Rex
12-31-2015, 02:10 PM
Bulls/Pacers was a really entertaining game.

tredigs
12-31-2015, 02:17 PM
Tonight clearly showed Klay is not a viable #1 option.
Nothing is "clearly shown" in a 1 game sample size when a teams superstar whose offense is built around him is a game-time scratch and the rest of the team is left to pick up the pieces. Not to mention missing another starter. There are plenty of teams/situations where Klay could perform at a high level as a #1 option. Even on the Warriors, you'd have to give them 3 months of play/adjustment to have a decent idea of where Klay could be as a #1 option. Not 1 night in Dallas.

zn23
12-31-2015, 02:31 PM
Nothing is "clearly shown" in a 1 game sample size when a teams superstar whose offense is built around him is a game-time scratch and the rest of the team is left to pick up the pieces. Not to mention missing another starter. There are plenty of teams/situations where Klay could perform at a high level as a #1 option. Even on the Warriors, you'd have to give them 3 months of play/adjustment to have a decent idea of where Klay could be as a #1 option. Not 1 night in Dallas.


It's not just one game, it's a body of work as well. He hasn't played well in the playoffs either.

He doesn't have the skills to be a no.1 option on a team. You need to be more than a shooter. He has size and he can back down smaller guards. But his lack of quickness and his lack of dribbling ability to create his own shot is missing.

Vee-Rex
12-31-2015, 03:13 PM
Nothing is "clearly shown" in a 1 game sample size when a teams superstar whose offense is built around him is a game-time scratch and the rest of the team is left to pick up the pieces. Not to mention missing another starter. There are plenty of teams/situations where Klay could perform at a high level as a #1 option. Even on the Warriors, you'd have to give them 3 months of play/adjustment to have a decent idea of where Klay could be as a #1 option. Not 1 night in Dallas.

I see what you're saying, but I disagree. The bottom line is a #1 option needs to be able to create for themselves. Klay has not shown he can do that consistently when Curry is not on the floor. No matter how many months of play/adjustment, if he can't create for himself as a #1 option then he won't succeed. Simply running off screens and shooting off the pass all the time won't work as a #1 option.

Here's a look at Klay's stats (this year AND last) per 36 minutes w/o Curry on the floor:

22.1 points, 3.3 assists, 3.5 rebounds, 39.4% from the field, 38.1% on 3-pointers, 51.0% true shooting percentage.

Total of 597 minutes, and I'm not sure that's including last night's game.

tredigs
12-31-2015, 08:38 PM
^And 22 PPG is #1 option volume (would rank inside the top 10 most years). The shooting efficiency is a bit low, but what do you expect when those are the #'s primarily playing alongside reserves in a system not built for you and without another viable 16-20 ppg scorer to take some of the pressure off of him (which many #'s certainly have).

The point is, you don't truly know how he'd take to being a #1 option until he is in fact the #1 option. Part of his skill set (specifically the lack of playmaking on his part, is a result of that not being asked of him on a day to day basis and it likely not being the focus of his practice routine as a result). If that was something a team needed out of him, I'm sure it's something he'd work to improve. As is, he has essentially perfected his skill set for what the Warriors ask of him.

Klay with 17 points on 7-9 from the field so far in Houston btw. 1st quarter.

tredigs
01-01-2016, 12:25 PM
An efficient 38 points in a road b2b win it is for Klay. I'd say the potential to be a #1 is there. They'd be nothing like these current Warriors, but the potential is clearly there for him. That said, hopefully we never have to see it happen.

Vee-Rex
01-01-2016, 12:38 PM
By that logic, no one knows anything. Maybe Ibaka could be GOAT if he was ever the number one option. Maybe Bradley Beal could be GOAT if he was ever the number one option.

All we have to go by is stats and eye test, and judging by both, Klay doesn't appear to be able to be consistent enough to do it. Sure, he'll pop out some great games like last night especially if it isn't against a premier defense.

But just like you said that Dallas game was just one game, you have to take the same stance with this Rockets game.

Edit: (just using GOAT to express my point, I know you didn't say that) :)

tredigs
01-01-2016, 12:56 PM
I think I made his case pretty clear three posts up as a rebuttal to your comments (even tho' your sample size accounted for just ~15 games of action). Last night was just some anecdotal evidence. Guys who can't hack it as a #1 will very rarely drop an efficient 38+ in a road b2b. Give Klay a good system or even a very solid scorer and/or playmaker who can help him stretch the floor (I could rattle off 30 potential names here), and he'd be fine as a teams top scorer (lead a contender? No. But that's 4 of 30 teams). Certainly better than some who are already filling that role for other teams. Most of that game he was guarded by Corey Brewer and Ariza with Dwight manning the paint, who are not slouches defensively. Harden was often hid on Livingston, Rush, etc. Who by the way, do not make Klay's job any easier. Rush was left open to collapse on Klay and still couldn't hit the open three. On a team where they can't overload and he's still the #1 option, that's a 45+ point night.