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Meth
12-23-2015, 10:03 PM
This past offseason, the Thunder fired Scott Brooks and hired college coach Billy Donovan. The knock on Brooks was obviously not being able to win a championship within that window despite having elite talent, as well as his lack of coaching specifically the lack of offensive sets the Thunder ran during the playoffs. Many questions were raised about Donovan's competency to coach in the professional level, specifically to inherit a team with elite talent, do what Brooks failed to do and succeed. About 28 games in and as of now, the Thunder are currently third in the West. I know it's still early, but...

is he a better coach than Scott Brooks? Is he utilizing his players correctly? Is Donovan the right coach for this team?

HandsOnTheWheel
12-23-2015, 10:36 PM
He looks like a vampire who woke up in the wrong century.

http://www.trbimg.com/img-54d6b0e2/turbine/os-magic-gators-billy-donovan-mike-bianchi-0208-20150207

MonroeFAN
12-23-2015, 10:37 PM
Team seems worse off, but the roster is significantly worse.

IBleedPurple
12-23-2015, 11:10 PM
It's early, but I expect the same postseason results.

tredigs
12-23-2015, 11:47 PM
I wasn't a Brooks fan, but Donovan is completely lost at the NBA level.

ewing
12-24-2015, 09:26 AM
never liked his hair

Yanks All Day
12-24-2015, 09:51 AM
He's 20-9 through 29 games. I'm going to give him some time before deciding. I think he's working with a significantly worse team than most would like to believe. OKC is KD and RW and a bunch of maybes. So it's not like he's coming in and getting a Spurs, Warriors, or Cavs squad.

That said, I think you have to give a coach at least 2 seasons at the NBA level before even beginning to make judgments. Being a coach in a professional sport is all about how you make adjustments, whether in-game, between games, or between seasons. Donovan might also have a vision for the roster that we don't see yet because that team hasn't been fully assembled 30 games into his tenure. For me, it's still way too early. But the Thunder are what they always have been so far: Two stars taking turns scoring the ball and hoping someone from the supporting cast steps up.

tredigs
12-24-2015, 01:28 PM
He's 20-9 through 29 games. I'm going to give him some time before deciding. I think he's working with a significantly worse team than most would like to believe. OKC is KD and RW and a bunch of maybes. So it's not like he's coming in and getting a Spurs, Warriors, or Cavs squad.

That said, I think you have to give a coach at least 2 seasons at the NBA level before even beginning to make judgments. Being a coach in a professional sport is all about how you make adjustments, whether in-game, between games, or between seasons. Donovan might also have a vision for the roster that we don't see yet because that team hasn't been fully assembled 30 games into his tenure. For me, it's still way too early. But the Thunder are what they always have been so far: Two stars taking turns scoring the ball and hoping someone from the supporting cast steps up.
He came in and got a squad with two top 6 players in the league (along with a defensive center, an offensive bench center, and a stretch 4 with elite defense in Ibaka). That team will not lose many games if they're on the court. Ironically, his biggest problem to me is that he does not leave them on the court. Nearly every game I've seen them lose is due to him sitting BOTH KD + Westbrook and watching the lead they had built fall by the wayside in that time frame. Not sure how long it is going to take him to understand that they're going to need to be staggered better.

Gander13SM
12-24-2015, 04:12 PM
Personally I've been underwhelmed. His offense isn't that different from what they were running before.

In fact... its the exact same.

He hasn't changed anything with them offensively it's still a bunch of high pick and rolls sprinkled with isos for 90% of the time.

I don't see what impact he's had. Could be a locker room thing.

There was a point in the season where KD/Russ had some horrible body language. They didn't look happy to be playing with each other at all. That seems to have changed somewhat and I'm wondering if it was Donovan who got it all back on track.

FlashBolt
12-25-2015, 03:42 AM
Terrible.. Brooks was way better and that's saying something. Donovan is lost, doesn't understand that college ball is not the same as the NBA level, he doesn't draw up any plays to get others involved (doesn't seem like he does), and he seems way too intimidated by KD/Westbrook. I thought it would get a bit better with Donovan since Brooks was just satisfied enough to win 50+ games but Donovan hasn't made this team better.

LA_Raiders
12-25-2015, 09:10 PM
They look exactly the same but a less dominant. They will end up with the same results. KD will be gone next year; then we will see what billy got.

Meth
06-01-2016, 02:12 AM
bump

third seed, beat the Spurs (who most thought would lose), took the Warriors to seven games... lost it after being up 3-1.

now that their season is done, how do you evaluate Donovan?

nastynice
06-01-2016, 03:11 AM
I think he's pretty good. His team almost always scores out of a timeout. KD and Russ never really seem gassed, so minute management seems fine. He also staggers them sometimes, which I know people think is a no brainer but lots of coaches don't do that (Altho that might start changing because of the Warriors). Also, he came into game 7 with an excellent game plan. Somehow the team got away from, I don't know how much of that falls on coach vs players, but it seemed to me he held up his end of the bargain regarding that.

I think he's a good coach. Obviously he has arguably 2 top 5 players, but this thunder team had lots of people stepping up at diff spots, coach gotta get some credit for that too

eDush
06-02-2016, 05:58 PM
He looks like a vampire who woke up in the wrong century.

http://www.trbimg.com/img-54d6b0e2/turbine/os-magic-gators-billy-donovan-mike-bianchi-0208-20150207if that's true, then that avatar you have on looks like Count Dracula :nod:

ghettosean
06-02-2016, 07:29 PM
I wasn't a Brooks fan, but Donovan is completely lost at the NBA level.

Has anyone seen this man????

Scoots
06-03-2016, 01:51 AM
I think he's okay ... better than Brooks, but his inability to get RW and KD to stay within an offensive framework is a knock on him AND them and the offensive scheme run while better than Brooks is still REALLY simple and makes some significant mistakes in maximizing the talent on the roster. Again this means either he's not a good coach or his players are not smart enough or engaged enough to do it. And before someone says it was his first year and it takes a while to install a more complex offense I will point out that Kerr took over the Warriors who ran a REALLY simple iso heavy offense and installed a complex mix of D'Antoni/Princeton/Spurs/Princeton and managed to win a title ... but his players were really smart and he got them to buy in.

KnicksorBust
06-03-2016, 02:55 PM
I think he's okay ... better than Brooks, but his inability to get RW and KD to stay within an offensive framework is a knock on him AND them and the offensive scheme run while better than Brooks is still REALLY simple and makes some significant mistakes in maximizing the talent on the roster. Again this means either he's not a good coach or his players are not smart enough or engaged enough to do it. And before someone says it was his first year and it takes a while to install a more complex offense I will point out that Kerr took over the Warriors who ran a REALLY simple iso heavy offense and installed a complex mix of D'Antoni/Princeton/Spurs/Princeton and managed to win a title ... but his players were really smart and he got them to buy in.

You really think it's that easy? Westbrook will never fit in a box... That's why he's gotta go...

flea
06-03-2016, 07:31 PM
I think he's okay ... better than Brooks, but his inability to get RW and KD to stay within an offensive framework is a knock on him AND them and the offensive scheme run while better than Brooks is still REALLY simple and makes some significant mistakes in maximizing the talent on the roster. Again this means either he's not a good coach or his players are not smart enough or engaged enough to do it. And before someone says it was his first year and it takes a while to install a more complex offense I will point out that Kerr took over the Warriors who ran a REALLY simple iso heavy offense and installed a complex mix of D'Antoni/Princeton/Spurs/Princeton and managed to win a title ... but his players were really smart and he got them to buy in.

Donovan was building his HOF career while Kerr was still riding the pine in the NBA. The reason a motion style offense works so swimmingly with the Warriors is not anything in particular to do with Kerr or how smart his players are - he's got the 2 best shooters in the NBA and the best passing frontcourt in the NBA. If anything all it proves is how dim-witted Mark Jackson was for running something other than a screen-heavy motion offense when he had such a dominant shooting backcourt.

The Thunder, on the other hand, have probably the 2 best ISO scorers in the NBA. And under Donovan they only improved - both Durant and Westbrook had their most efficient seasons to date, the offense became more fluid, they were handily the 3rd best team in the NBA by net adjusted rating, and their offense was the 2nd best by adjusted rating among any in the NBA over the last 6 seasons (only this year's Warriors was better).

Neither the Thunder nor Donovan was perfect in their first season together but everything he was criticized for early came around, they knocked off one of the elite teams of all time and took the other to 7 after a 3-1 lead, and Donovan got a lot more out of his roster than any coach this season. Hell he out-coached both Kerr and Popovich this postseason, I'd say it was a pretty good 1st year.

CHANGO
06-03-2016, 07:53 PM
I don't know who deserves the credit here, BUT, the defense that Thunder team played against the Spurs and Warriors was pretty damn GREAT. That defense alone could win you lot of games against a team not named the Warriors. So, yes, I think my opinion of the coach have changed with this postseason.

Still ways to go, but that's something.

ewing
06-03-2016, 11:27 PM
Donovan was building his HOF career while Kerr was still riding the pine in the NBA. The reason a motion style offense works so swimmingly with the Warriors is not anything in particular to do with Kerr or how smart his players are - he's got the 2 best shooters in the NBA and the best passing frontcourt in the NBA. If anything all it proves is how dim-witted Mark Jackson was for running something other than a screen-heavy motion offense when he had such a dominant shooting backcourt.

The Thunder, on the other hand, have probably the 2 best ISO scorers in the NBA. And under Donovan they only improved - both Durant and Westbrook had their most efficient seasons to date, the offense became more fluid, they were handily the 3rd best team in the NBA by net adjusted rating, and their offense was the 2nd best by adjusted rating among any in the NBA over the last 6 seasons (only this year's Warriors was better).

Neither the Thunder nor Donovan was perfect in their first season together but everything he was criticized for early came around, they knocked off one of the elite teams of all time and took the other to 7 after a 3-1 lead, and Donovan got a lot more out of his roster than any coach this season. Hell he out-coached both Kerr and Popovich this postseason, I'd say it was a pretty good 1st year.


that's all true. I have a hard time gauging him still. in the playoffs they looked like a college team winning on effort and talent and I cant get over ISOing KD 30 feet from the hole and telling to go take Curry off the dribble. Jesus just give it up and get it back in high post. its not brain surgery. they also had the typical OKC trouble integrating guys. Marrow and Singler in particular seem like guys that could contribute.

BKLYNpigeon
06-04-2016, 12:27 AM
Western Conference Finals OKC up 3-1, Coach Donovan is out coaching Kerr.

Lost 3-4 in the WCF to Warriors now everyone hates on him? LOL FOH.

Missing56&33
06-05-2016, 01:36 PM
This past offseason, the Thunder fired Scott Brooks and hired college coach Billy Donovan. The knock on Brooks was obviously not being able to win a championship within that window despite having elite talent, as well as his lack of coaching specifically the lack of offensive sets the Thunder ran during the playoffs. Many questions were raised about Donovan's competency to coach in the professional level, specifically to inherit a team with elite talent, do what Brooks failed to do and succeed. About 28 games in and as of now, the Thunder are currently third in the West. I know it's still early, but...

is he a better coach than Scott Brooks? Is he utilizing his players correctly? Is Donovan the right coach for this team?

great thread topic....IMO...BD is a very good coach and was a great decision by SP to bring him in and to fire SB.

First of all, I feel bad for Donovan and here's why....he's in a tough spot because of the two stars on the team. KD and RW are favorites of SP..... so whatever BD does it have to revolve around KD and RW and they are two self absorbed superstars.

SP(Sam Presti) has been both good and bad as a GM but never consistent and its cost the team dearly. SB(Scott Brooks was terrible....he played RS and KD into the ground .....he's the one that took SI away from the paint and made him a 3pt shooter....he played Derrick Fisher like he was 21 years old.....had no backbone what so ever.....traded Harden(worse mistake ever) let Reggie Jackson go....(second worse mistake).....but he did draft SA who is very good.......

But if you want to be a winner you can't have favorites....you got to make RW a 2SG and get a solid PG a true PG....but you need RW to buy into that idea and system.

BD love his PG's .....I'm sure that is what he wants to do but KD and RW are to self absorbed to buy into the concept.

With that being said....can RW and KD learn from their mistakes and grow in their current positions by trusting their teammates? I personally don't think so.

CardinalRed24
06-05-2016, 02:25 PM
Hiring Donovan was one of the best decisions they could have made. I think he did an amazing job with this team and will only continue to get better as a coach with more big league experience. Regardless, OKC is much better off with Billy as oppose to Scott Brooks. And I think he's going to have a very successful career coaching this young Thunder team.

eDush
06-05-2016, 07:49 PM
I think he's okay ... better than Brooks, but his inability to get RW and KD to stay within an offensive framework is a knock on him AND them and the offensive scheme run while better than Brooks is still REALLY simple and makes some significant mistakes in maximizing the talent on the roster. Again this means either he's not a good coach or his players are not smart enough or engaged enough to do it. And before someone says it was his first year and it takes a while to install a more complex offense I will point out that Kerr took over the Warriors who ran a REALLY simple iso heavy offense and installed a complex mix of D'Antoni/Princeton/Spurs/Princeton and managed to win a title ... but his players were really smart and he got them to buy in.

You really think it's that easy? Westbrook will never fit in a box... That's why he's gotta go...
:laugh2: Westy is NOT the problem...its Durant. No one is saying it's easy. He can't fit in a box if it's as large as the entire court he plays on. He doesn't make anyone better but himself and acts arrogant during post games interviews. Okay both of them are but i think Westy is trying to follow Durant footsteps in that department.

Scoots
06-06-2016, 01:00 AM
:laugh2: Westy is NOT the problem...its Durant. No one is saying it's easy. He can't fit in a box if it's as large as the entire court he plays on. He doesn't make anyone better but himself and acts arrogant during post games interviews. Okay both of them are but i think Westy is trying to follow Durant footsteps in that department.

I question both of their decision making regularly, but Durant is a better basketball player than RW but RW doesn't defer enough.

Donovan did a better job than Brooks, but when you can see dozens of plays where Durant just stands and watches it's either Donovan not building a better offense, Durant not running that better offense (also some blame to the coach), or Westbrook not running that better offense (also some blame to coach). So, it's either directly on Donovan, or indirectly it's on Donovan.

eDush
06-06-2016, 10:09 AM
:laugh2: Westy is NOT the problem...its Durant. No one is saying it's easy. He can't fit in a box if it's as large as the entire court he plays on. He doesn't make anyone better but himself and acts arrogant during post games interviews. Okay both of them are but i think Westy is trying to follow Durant footsteps in that department.

I question both of their decision making regularly, but Durant is a better basketball player than RW but RW doesn't defer enough.

Donovan did a better job than Brooks, but when you can see dozens of plays where Durant just stands and watches it's either Donovan not building a better offense, Durant not running that better offense (also some blame to the coach), or Westbrook not running that better offense (also some blame to coach). So, it's either directly on Donovan, or indirectly it's on Donovan.
Its indirectly since players with a giant size ego thinks they know better than the coach aka Lebron. Donovan is probably frustrated when he sees that happens but is reluctant to yell at him cause he is a soon to be free agent superstar. Brooks was more supportive of Durant ISO tendencies and given him the green light to shoot as often as he wants like Kerr allowing Curry the green light to do the same in his contract year as long as he plays defense :nod:

Scoots
06-06-2016, 11:09 AM
Its indirectly since players with a giant size ego thinks they know better than the coach aka Lebron. Donovan is probably frustrated when he sees that happens but is reluctant to yell at him cause he is a soon to be free agent superstar. Brooks was more supportive of Durant ISO tendencies and given him the green light to shoot as often as he wants like Kerr allowing Curry the green light to do the same in his contract year as long as he plays defense :nod:

Part of my point was that we don't know what offense Donovan is calling so if his offense has strong side motion for RW and Ibaka and leaves KD standing 30' from the hoop watching or if that's just what happens ... we can't tell the difference from our couches.

And Kerr doesn't allow Curry to shoot all he wants. Kerr actually tries to contain Curry occasionally. It was Walton who gave Curry, not just a green light, but pushed him to shoot a lot more than he did. Kerr is frequently caught gesticulating in frustration when the players take "bad" shots, and Curry takes a lot of "bad" shots.

eDush
06-06-2016, 11:38 AM
Its indirectly since players with a giant size ego thinks they know better than the coach aka Lebron. Donovan is probably frustrated when he sees that happens but is reluctant to yell at him cause he is a soon to be free agent superstar. Brooks was more supportive of Durant ISO tendencies and given him the green light to shoot as often as he wants like Kerr allowing Curry the green light to do the same in his contract year as long as he plays defense :nod:

Part of my point was that we don't know what offense Donovan is calling so if his offense has strong side motion for RW and Ibaka and leaves KD standing 30' from the hoop watching or if that's just what happens ... we can't tell the difference from our couches.

And Kerr doesn't allow Curry to shoot all he wants. Kerr actually tries to contain Curry occasionally. It was Walton who gave Curry, not just a green light, but pushed him to shoot a lot more than he did. Kerr is frequently caught gesticulating in frustration when the players take "bad" shots, and Curry takes a lot of "bad" shots.
You're right...it was Luke as he was an extension of Kerr but he does make the calls when he was in charge. Now we know why Kerr broke his clipboard and gave him the evil eye stare like he undermine his call but I'm sure it just look that way....

eDush
06-06-2016, 11:43 AM
We can only imagine how many stat boards he broke in the hospital in the first half as he saw Curry went Rambo with the ball :(

Scoots
06-06-2016, 12:20 PM
You're right...it was Luke as he was an extension of Kerr but he does make the calls when he was in charge. Now we know why Kerr broke his clipboard and gave him the evil eye stare like he undermine his call but I'm sure it just look that way....

That sounded sarcastic, but I'll respond as if it wasn't. Walton let the players play a lot more than Kerr who is more regimented and controlled and interested in "good" shots. Under Walton Green was hitting a higher percentage, scoring more, and playing faster and generally better. Kerr came back and Green struggled under the control for a while. Walton of course had the luxury of not losing for the first couple months he was a coach so he could get away with letting them go.

I wonder if, with Walton gone, Curry will feel free enough to go for the 15 3s a game Walton wanted.

eDush
06-06-2016, 05:36 PM
You're right...it was Luke as he was an extension of Kerr but he does make the calls when he was in charge. Now we know why Kerr broke his clipboard and gave him the evil eye stare like he undermine his call but I'm sure it just look that way....

That sounded sarcastic, but I'll respond as if it wasn't. Walton let the players play a lot more than Kerr who is more regimented and controlled and interested in "good" shots. Under Walton Green was hitting a higher percentage, scoring more, and playing faster and generally better. Kerr came back and Green struggled under the control for a while. Walton of course had the luxury of not losing for the first couple months he was a coach so he could get away with letting them go.

I wonder if, with Walton gone, Curry will feel free enough to go for the 15 3s a game Walton wanted.
It was part sarcasm with the evil eye. I wonder if the Lakers knows that Luke is not as regimented with Kerr's offense as they might like to avoid D'Angelo taking as many shots whether he has ice in his veins or not. I think Kerr would curtail his shooting to give everyone else on the team a chance to rise for his 'strength in numbers' approach where sharing the attempts is preferred unless absolutely necessary to regain the lead:nod:

:dance:

Scoots
06-06-2016, 06:52 PM
It was part sarcasm with the evil eye. I wonder if the Lakers knows that Luke is not as regimented with Kerr's offense as they might like to avoid D'Angelo taking as many shots whether he has ice in his veins or not. I think Kerr would curtail his shooting to give everyone else on the team a chance to rise for his 'strength in numbers' approach where sharing the attempts is preferred unless absolutely necessary to regain the lead:nod:

:dance:

The problem with that is that the more shots Curry takes the more efficient he gets.

JasonJohnHorn
06-08-2016, 06:29 PM
He's not a bad coach, obviously, but he hasn't made this team better. He got more out of Adams, but I think that is part of the natural progression of a player improving and entering his prime.

He's got a better front court than Brooks ever had.


You can't fault him for losing to GSW. They were the better team. Props for beating Pops, and pushing GSW to 7 games. I don't think Brooks would have done better. Alternately, I don't think that Brooks would have done much worse. It was a lateral move in my estimation. Change for the sake of change. Which is the worst kind of change.


That said, he should have had a better regular season record. That team is a 60-win team easily.

ewing
06-08-2016, 09:01 PM
He's not a bad coach, obviously, but he hasn't made this team better. He got more out of Adams, but I think that is part of the natural progression of a player improving and entering his prime.

He's got a better front court than Brooks ever had.


You can't fault him for losing to GSW. They were the better team. Props for beating Pops, and pushing GSW to 7 games. I don't think Brooks would have done better. Alternately, I don't think that Brooks would have done much worse. It was a lateral move in my estimation. Change for the sake of change. Which is the worst kind of change.


That said, he should have had a better regular season record. That team is a 60-win team easily.


I agree with the last statement but i did see an identity from the Thunder in this years playoffs. They D-ed the **** up and out worked people. I have to give Billy credit for that