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View Full Version : Jimmy Butler Calls Out Hoiberg!



nycericanguy
12-20-2015, 09:59 AM
“I believe in the guys in this locker room, yeah,'' Butler said, when asked if this team needed a change in personnel as a shake-up. “But I also believe that we probably have to be coached a lot harder at times. I'm sorry, I know that Fred's a laid-back guy, and I really respect him for that. But when guys aren't doing what they're supposed to do, you gotta get on guys, myself included. You gotta do what you're supposed to do when you're out there playing basketball.

“It's on everybody. But I just think when it's coming from [Hoiberg] it's a lot different. It's different when a player is telling another player, and a coach is telling a player. I know it's really not in him like that, but I think at times that's what we need.''

“It's not even about being coached a certain way for five years,'' Butler continued, when the name of former coach Tom Thibodeau was brought up. “It's about making everybody do their job. We weren't doing what we were supposed to be doing, what we wrote up on that [locker room] board before the game, and nobody spoke up about it. I did, probably not enough times, but I think [Hoiberg] has to hold everybody accountable, from the number one player to however many guys we got. Everyone has to do their job.''

“Basketball is basketball,'' Butler said, when asked about the transition from Thibodeau to Hoiberg being a difficult one. “Players are going to play the game. But it's different. I'm not going to say it's not.''

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/eye-on-basketball/25420242/jimmy-butler-laid-back-fred-hoiberg-has-to-coach-bulls-harder

Man he had a lot to say, sounds like he's been holding it back for a while. Completely threw Hoiberg under the bus.

And this is just hilarious...

https://twitter.com/kcjhoop/status/678434894079463424

Thibs got a lot of flak for playing guys too many minutes but Hoiberg left his starters out there for entire overtimes while having guys fresh on the bench.

bbcmillionaire
12-20-2015, 10:11 AM
Lol that's not throwing Fred under a bus. I'm pretty sure he and other players told Fred that as well, but this title is misleading at best

nycericanguy
12-20-2015, 10:16 AM
Lol that's not throwing Fred under a bus. I'm pretty sure he and other players told Fred that as well, but this title is misleading at best

lol wtf? how is the title misleading?

He absolutely called him out and he absolutely threw him under the bus. Can't remember a player coming out like that publicly and talking about his coach like that. Not something you say to media.

warfelg
12-20-2015, 10:38 AM
Not a good situation. Definitely something to watch in the coming weeks. It's a shame they ran into those Heat teams, because that might have been their peak years as a team.

McAllen Tx
12-20-2015, 10:44 AM
Didnt sound like he threw Hoiberg under the bus, I took it that he's letting Hoiberg know he gots his back. Exactly what a rookie coach needs, for his star player to have his back.

Looks to me that he's taking shots at Rose.

shep33
12-20-2015, 10:58 AM
The biggest problem on that team is Rose. He's been straight up awful this year.

beasted86
12-20-2015, 11:33 AM
Bulls need to move on from the Rose/Noah era.

Trade both for whatever you can get. I think Brooklyn would take a half season flyer on Noah and possibly Rose (if he plans on opting out), try and bring some fans back to the games.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=qy6angj

This is Butler's team now. I don't think he's necessarily calling out the coach, just saying everyone needs to be accountable.

shep33
12-20-2015, 11:45 AM
Bulls need to move on from the Rose/Noah era.

Trade both for whatever you can get. I think Brooklyn would take a half season flyer on Noah and possibly Rose (if he plans on opting out), try and bring some fans back to the games.

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=qy6angj

This is Butler's team now. I don't think he's necessarily calling out the coach, just saying everyone needs to be accountable.


Exactly. They need to rebuild honestly. I would maybe hang onto Noah though. Pau is probably gone after this year. Rose could maybe make a nice 6th man somewhere, but his value is terrible. Dude isn't a top 20 point guard and he's making elite money

Captain Moroni
12-20-2015, 11:46 AM
I know they played a lot of minutes on Friday, but the Bulls I've come to expect the last 5 years was not what showed up last night. Their defense still good was not what it once was. Rose is just not dominant anymore

QueensG718
12-20-2015, 11:52 AM
Butler let his coach out to dry to the media. How is this not throwing him under the bus. To me this sounds like he three his coach and teammate's under the bus. They might need to blow it up.

phantasyyy
12-20-2015, 12:26 PM
Any Chicago fans want to chime in? I'd love to hear what they think about the transition from Thibs->Hoiberg.

Do you miss Thibs? - Are the defensive chops they're displaying now just remnants from a familiar defensive philosophy they harped on the last 5 years?

What are we missing about their offensive schemes, I thought Hoiberg was suppose to make them better on that end. What happened to Noah - is it just a lack of involvement? I mean the dude did anchor the offensive sets for long periods of injuries to rose

WOwolfOL
12-20-2015, 01:18 PM
The Bulls are holding their opponents to a league low .416 FG%, 5th in 3P% at .323, 10th in opponents PPG (by virtue of being pretty awful on offense - 2nd worst in FG% and bottom 10 in PPG) at 99.3, 2nd behind only the Spurs in Drtg at 100.0

It's pretty apparent the defense is not a problem.

They need shooters and they need to shed a big or two. The FO is being incredibly stubborn. Rose is a big problem but one they are absolutely stuck with so they need to get some more guys who can score to make up for his deficiency.

Bobby Portis has been exiled to the bench even though he clearly showed incredible potential during SL and PS. He finally gets 20+ minutes and he produces 20/11 right off the bat.

It's absurd that the guy hasn't played more.

basketballkitty
12-20-2015, 01:38 PM
Butler let his coach out to dry to the media. How is this not throwing him under the bus. To me this sounds like he three his coach and teammate's under the bus. They might need to blow it up.




Did you read the part where Butler says...I know Coach is a Laid back guy...and I RESPECT HIM for that ?...He RESPECTS him....How exactly is that hanging him out to dry or throwing him under a Bus. The Quote was said solely to self motivate Butler and the team and Hoiberg to put forth more effort.

There's NOTHING to see here folks.

GiantsSwaGG
12-20-2015, 01:41 PM
Portis looks good, plus he's a 4 that can space the floor. He struggle a but obviously that's due to lack of playing time. Plays hard, should be seeing more playing time

effen5
12-20-2015, 01:56 PM
This team is such a ****ing mess. You fire a guy for not resting his players and had mediocre offense for a guy who doesn't rest his players and is even more worse on offense.

The front office is a joke. Outside of jimmy this team is full of one way players. They need to blow this team up like yesterday. They are that bad.

kdspurman
12-20-2015, 01:56 PM
I don't think he necessarily threw him under the bus, but saying this to the media won't help that perception. If he felt this, he shouldve discussed it behind closed doors. Some coaches aren't capable of doing what he's asking.

SteveZissou
12-20-2015, 01:59 PM
From reading that, it also can be interpreted at a shot to maybe rose. Like McAllen said.

He needs to hold everyone accountable. From the number one guy to the rest.
The gameplan is on the board, and not everyone is executing it (rose).

Butler can try to get on them (player to player) but it's a different effect when the coach holds the guys accountable.

DamnGoat
12-20-2015, 02:10 PM
Regardless of the comments (which really aren't that bad, but just probably didn't need to be said to the media), this roster badly needs an overhaul. Their window has passed and they've suddenly become an old, uninspiring team to watch (which kinda already happened last year) with a lot of pieces that either don't fit or aren't very good anymore.

I'm counting down the days til Rose's contract expires and I hope the FO has the balls to actually shake up the roster by moving guys like Pau & Taj this season.

stambrose84
12-20-2015, 03:21 PM
any chicago fans want to chime in? I'd love to hear what they think about the transition from thibs->hoiberg.

Do you miss thibs? - are the defensive chops they're displaying now just remnants from a familiar defensive philosophy they harped on the last 5 years?

What are we missing about their offensive schemes, i thought hoiberg was suppose to make them better on that end. What happened to noah - is it just a lack of involvement? I mean the dude did anchor the offensive sets for long periods of injuries to rose

everybody needs to do their job and jimmy needs to shut up!!! And they play basketball not finding a cure for cancer

stambrose84
12-20-2015, 03:54 PM
lol wtf? How is the title misleading?

He absolutely called him out and he absolutely threw him under the bus. Can't remember a player coming out like that publicly and talking about his coach like that. Not something you say to media.

amen he needs to sit or suspend him 95 million to shoot you mouth off? You play basketball and listen to your boss and shut up and how well did he play against the knicks? and melo lit you up for 27 and you call your COACH out?? CrapOLA

effen5
12-20-2015, 04:08 PM
amen he needs to sit or suspend him 95 million to shoot you mouth off? You play basketball and listen to your boss and shut up and how well did he play against the knicks? and melo lit you up for 27 and you call your COACH out?? CrapOLA

Umm he also dropped a very efficient 45 and played the entire second half and all 4 ots against the pistons. He's clearly the best player on the team and he's right. Fred needs to start doing a better job.

stambrose84
12-20-2015, 04:15 PM
Umm he also dropped a very efficient 45 and played the entire second half and all 4 ots against the pistons. He's clearly the best player on the team and he's right. Fred needs to start doing a better job.

how does Fred need to do a better job? and you have called your boss out? and how does that work? they have back to backs in the NBA and if he was tired he could of said something to him? sorry but he gets paid 95 million and if he is so tired then say something or better idea? rip you coach in public? is it that hard to play basketball?

phantasyyy
12-20-2015, 04:32 PM
how does Fred need to do a better job? and you have called your boss out? and how does that work? they have back to backs in the NBA and if he was tired he could of said something to him? sorry but he gets paid 95 million and if he is so tired then say something or better idea? rip you coach in public? is it that hard to play basketball?

Fred that you..?

I mean its pretty ridiculous to play the starters the entire 4th + overtime with the depth the team enjoys. I mean he has Noah coming off the bench playing under 25m a game.

5ass
12-20-2015, 06:48 PM
Trade him to the Magic for Hezonja+Harris+Napier. Bulls then trade Noah+Niko+Taj+Snell+MCD for picks/more young prospects (I'm thinking Snell, McDermott, Napier for Schroder),. Tank and go through a full rebuild. Butler gets to play under one of the toughest coaches in the league, and can lead a young Magic team as the main star.

Payton/Watson
Fournier/oladipo
Butler/Gordon
Frye/nicholson
Vucevic/smith/Dedmon

Once Gordon replaces Frye, and Oladipo replaces Fournier, the defense would be incredible. This offseason we go after Horford and then go deep into the play offs. We'd match up perfectly with the Cavs. Butler would guard Lebron, Gordon would guard Love, and Payton/Oladipo would guard Irving. Gives Butler a shot at finally beating LeBron in the play offs.

Let me dream...

KG2TB
12-20-2015, 07:11 PM
It's funny when people comare the coach/player relationship to that of regular workers/bosses. In todays NBA, the players hold the power. They're the ones getting paid more than the coaches. Does anyone here get paid more than their boss? Ok...

Clearly, it's a different dynamic. To be technical, Jimmy's boss is Jerry Reinsdorf and to a lesser extent Garpax. Fred is the coach, not a "boss." Overall, the comments aren't a huge deal. Should have stayed in house but it's not the first time a star player criticized his coach in some way.

As far as the roster, like most say on here, it needs a shakeup. Our defense is still elite, even better than last year, but the offense has taken a step back. A lot of that has to do with Rose playing horrendous basketball outside of maybe 4 games. At the end of the day, the roster is the problem.

McAllen Tx
12-20-2015, 07:13 PM
From reading that, it also can be interpreted at a shot to maybe rose. Like McAllen said.

He needs to hold everyone accountable. From the number one guy to the rest.
The gameplan is on the board, and not everyone is executing it (rose).

Butler can try to get on them (player to player) but it's a different effect when the coach holds the guys accountable.

This is what I took from his comments. He wasnt meaning anything negative towards Hoiberg but rather taking shots at Rose. But not just taking shots at Rose but letting Hoiberg know he gots his back.

This isnt gonna be your usual new coach vrs star player. This coach has the teams real star player support. Hoiberg does need to man up now and let Rose know he isnt running things no more.

With Sacs reluctance to trade Cousins they could probably be willing to take on Rose for Rondo and some.

Bartlee23
12-20-2015, 07:53 PM
Any Chicago fans want to chime in? I'd love to hear what they think about the transition from Thibs->Hoiberg.

Do you miss Thibs? - Are the defensive chops they're displaying now just remnants from a familiar defensive philosophy they harped on the last 5 years?

What are we missing about their offensive schemes, I thought Hoiberg was suppose to make them better on that end. What happened to Noah - is it just a lack of involvement? I mean the dude did anchor the offensive sets for long periods of injuries to rose

Noah,Rose,Gibson,Hinrich,Dunleavy...these guys are the past. Had their chance against Miami and failed. Gasol is ready to jump ship... Snell and McDermott haven't shown enough yet... Butler,Mirotic and Portis.. these guys are the future and IMO the only players worth keeping. The rest are just fill-ins.

Hoiberg.. good college coach maybe a good assistant coach? IMO he was brought in for cheap to play coach until the team decides what direction they want to go in. Chicago IMO needs to rebuild in the worst way. Their ship has come and gone. Unfortunately they have an owner who only cares about filling the seats. Chicago fans will always come and he knows that... throw in a couple of "names" ,be competitive enough to make the playoffs and cash in for what you can get.. that IMO is their philosophy... pretty sad.

Been a Chicago fan a long time and it's sad... almost unwatchable. Time for a change once they can either get rid of some of these players or wait for the contracts to end. IMO this team is going nowhere but an early playoff exit.. and that's not much to say.

stambrose84
12-20-2015, 08:29 PM
Fred that you..?

I mean its pretty ridiculous to play the starters the entire 4th + overtime with the depth the team enjoys. I mean he has Noah coming off the bench playing under 25m a game.

NOPE!!! didnt answer the question.... if they needed to sit BECAUSE WERE TIRED, THEY COULDNT SAY ANYTHING? REALLY?? DONT PIN IT ALL ON FRED

Stunner
12-20-2015, 08:31 PM
Butler and Hoiberg met today. Described to me as "good talk."

https://twitter.com/kcjhoop/status/678710859963723776

stambrose84
12-20-2015, 08:33 PM
it's funny when people comare the coach/player relationship to that of regular workers/bosses. In todays nba, the players hold the power. They're the ones getting paid more than the coaches. Does anyone here get paid more than their boss? Ok...

Clearly, it's a different dynamic. To be technical, jimmy's boss is jerry reinsdorf and to a lesser extent garpax. Fred is the coach, not a "boss." overall, the comments aren't a huge deal. Should have stayed in house but it's not the first time a star player criticized his coach in some way.

As far as the roster, like most say on here, it needs a shakeup. Our defense is still elite, even better than last year, but the offense has taken a step back. A lot of that has to do with rose playing horrendous basketball outside of maybe 4 games. At the end of the day, the roster is the problem.

well said.. And nothing will be done? And if the next player goes off on fred ?? Nothing? Again? So jimmy gonna call out jerry?? And gar/pax? To have to sit?

stambrose84
12-20-2015, 08:35 PM
noah,rose,gibson,hinrich,dunleavy...these guys are the past. Had their chance against miami and failed. Gasol is ready to jump ship... Snell and mcdermott haven't shown enough yet... Butler,mirotic and portis.. These guys are the future and imo the only players worth keeping. The rest are just fill-ins.

Hoiberg.. Good college coach maybe a good assistant coach? Imo he was brought in for cheap to play coach until the team decides what direction they want to go in. Chicago imo needs to rebuild in the worst way. Their ship has come and gone. Unfortunately they have an owner who only cares about filling the seats. Chicago fans will always come and he knows that... Throw in a couple of "names" ,be competitive enough to make the playoffs and cash in for what you can get.. That imo is their philosophy... Pretty sad.

Been a chicago fan a long time and it's sad... Almost unwatchable. Time for a change once they can either get rid of some of these players or wait for the contracts to end. Imo this team is going nowhere but an early playoff exit.. And that's not much to say.

well said......... Blow it up!!!!
And nothing happens to jimmy? And if the next player goes off on fred? Nothing again?

stambrose84
12-20-2015, 08:51 PM
[QUOTE=Stunner;30610501]Butler and Hoiberg met today. Described to me as "good talk."

https://twitter.com/kcjhoop/status/678710859963723776[/QUOTE

so the next player that calls out Fred? what will happen to that person? just a "good talking too"? #sithim
who is in charge??

Bartlee23
12-20-2015, 08:58 PM
well said......... Blow it up!!!!
And nothing happens to jimmy? And if the next player goes off on fred? Nothing again?

I actually took no offense to what Jimmy said... it's nice to see someone cares.( you'll never see that from ownership) how much Jimmy makes is only based on what he has earned,what people are paying to watch him play and btw when it's all said and done won't be seeing even half that money. It has nothing to do with anything. Should he have said that to the media?... probably not because they will spin it 10 different ways... was what he said true??? Hmm... Hoiberg like I said again IMO is a band aid... someone there to play the role at a reasonable price. IMO he is way over his head. College and the NBA are two completely different ball games.

This team needs to be in a transition period, needs new ownership (which is not going to happen) and direction. They are going nowhere. Cut your losses and look towards the future. Butler is far from the problem and spoke his mind. Players are human too believe it or not.

KnicksFan4Years
12-20-2015, 09:50 PM
I don't think Hoiberg should feel slighted/called out/thrown under the bus.

Butler basically said:
We know you are chill and we are cool with that. Sometimes we get off the rails and you gotta step outside your comfort zone to do what must be done (be a hard ***) and let us have it. We are big boys, we can take it and we won't hold it against you.

Only way this hurts Hoiberg is if he never gets the stones to come out of his comfort zone. Just like players, coaches need to show a sense of urgency sometimes.

nycericanguy
12-20-2015, 11:04 PM
He said Hoiberg isn't getting on guys enough or coaching hard enough. And some people are saying he wasn't calling him out?...lol.

I do think he tried to backtrack by saying guys needed to get on each other, but clearly he was initially talking about Hoiberg and then probably backtracked a bit.

very rare for a guy to say that about a coach... usually players are so PC about that stuff.

McAllen Tx
12-20-2015, 11:15 PM
Butler and Hoiberg met today. Described to me as "good talk."

https://twitter.com/kcjhoop/status/678710859963723776

I bet Roses ears were on fire the whole time.

Arch Stanton
12-20-2015, 11:31 PM
People have to understand that anything players and coaches say by news outlets are almost always taken out of context. These news outlets need to sell material and that often means doctoring tape. Now I don't doubt that there are some growing pains with the Bulls and their new coach, it's normal. And I'm also not stating that perhaps there is some issues within the team that involves the coach and players. But I'm fairly certain all of this is getting blown up to GRAB interest.

nycericanguy
12-20-2015, 11:42 PM
People have to understand that anything players and coaches say by news outlets are almost always taken out of context. These news outlets need to sell material and that often means doctoring tape. Now I don't doubt that there are some growing pains with the Bulls and their new coach, it's normal. And I'm also not stating that perhaps there is some issues within the team that involves the coach and players. But I'm fairly certain all of this is getting blown up to GRAB interest.

he went on for about 3-4 paragraphs... this is clearly not one of those taken out of context situations.

kobe4thewinbang
12-21-2015, 03:20 AM
Trade him to the Magic for Hezonja+Harris+Napier. Bulls then trade Noah+Niko+Taj+Snell+MCD for picks/more young prospects (I'm thinking Snell, McDermott, Napier for Schroder),. Tank and go through a full rebuild. Butler gets to play under one of the toughest coaches in the league, and can lead a young Magic team as the main star.

Payton/Watson
Fournier/oladipo
Butler/Gordon
Frye/nicholson
Vucevic/smith/Dedmon

Once Gordon replaces Frye, and Oladipo replaces Fournier, the defense would be incredible. This offseason we go after Horford and then go deep into the play offs. We'd match up perfectly with the Cavs. Butler would guard Lebron, Gordon would guard Love, and Payton/Oladipo would guard Irving. Gives Butler a shot at finally beating LeBron in the play offs.

Let me dream...Something like that...2K probably your only chance to see that happen.

MonroeFAN
12-21-2015, 12:36 PM
This team is such a ****ing mess. You fire a guy for not resting his players and had mediocre offense for a guy who doesn't rest his players and is even more worse on offense.

The front office is a joke. Outside of jimmy this team is full of one way players. They need to blow this team up like yesterday. They are that bad.

Serious question here.

You're 15 - 10. What are your expectations for this team, and if they're beyond 15 - 10 then why?

5ass
12-21-2015, 07:57 PM
Something like that...2K probably your only chance to see that happen.

Fine replace Horford with Terrence Jones to make it more realistic LOL. Seriously though, I think that's a decent package for Butler if you add a couple of 1sts. Mario is a top 5 pick with high potential, and Harris is a productive 23 yr old who has improved every season. He hasn't reached his ceiling yet, and he doesn't get plays ran for him. He'll get you 20 PPG easy on another team. I think U can flip him and Noah for Myles Turner.


I would love Butler on the Magic. I think he makes us the second best team, and best defensive team in the east instantly. He's the key if we want to beat LeBron. He also gives us a closer and someone who can get to the FT line. I'd also love to have him as a mentor to all the young guys on our team so he can teach them how to take their game to the next level.

JasonJohnHorn
12-22-2015, 06:47 PM
He's calling him out. Yes. Throwing him under the bus? I'm not sure. I don't like him going about it through the media. That's for sure. That's something the vets have to go to the coach and discuss in private.

However, it may have the desired effect. Butler is saying "I'm the star and I'm telling you it's ok to call me out. Call out Rose. Call out Gasol. Call out everybody that's not doing their job. That is your job."

I think a rookie coach with so many vets like Noah, and like Gasol, and Rose, might feel like "I have no place to question a former MVP, and former NBA Champion, and a National Champion, and an All-Star". Butler is telling him he can and letting him know he has his back.

5ass
12-22-2015, 07:55 PM
The way I see it is Butler is actually criticizing his teammates for not doing their job. The thing is he called out hoidberg to send the message across to his teammates without having to deal with their inflated egos. The message is clear, butler needs his teammates to perform. I'm sure hoidberg can handle a little criticism for the good of the team.

72 Wins
12-23-2015, 11:55 AM
IMO he was brought in for cheap to play coach until the team decides what direction they want to go in.

5 year/25 million dollar contract is hardly cheap or the salary for a "fill in." Bulls are locked in. If the atificial claims about Reinsdorf is correct, you think they are going to fire him after a year or something and eat that (again)?

effen5
12-23-2015, 04:58 PM
Serious question here.

You're 15 - 10. What are your expectations for this team, and if they're beyond 15 - 10 then why?

I had this team winning 42 to 45 wins...my expectations for this team is extremely low. This team has been in basketball hell the day derrick rose won the mvp.

Bartlee23
12-23-2015, 05:54 PM
5 year/25 million dollar contract is hardly cheap or the salary for a "fill in." Bulls are locked in. If the atificial claims about Reinsdorf is correct, you think they are going to fire him after a year or something and eat that (again)?

Go look and see how many coaches have 5 year contracts. This is right before the league is going to explode with salaries ( yes this does include coaches if you want a good one)

Who said anything about " firing him after a year or something" ???? Believe it or not in a year or so that will be a very reasonable contract. What is "atificial claims" ??? If you are referring to claims that Reinsdorf could care less about the Bulls, brings in his "yes men" to run things, and even said he'd "trade Bulls championships for a White Sox world series" (just say the word and I'll show you the article) but you knew that right?

I guarantee I've been a Chicago fan longer than you and if you don't believe any of what's out there then I don't know what to say. Just out of curiosity what exactly are you expecting from a first year coach, has a team moving into rebuild mold and really no direction? Rebuild team.. first year coach... hmm....

zn23
12-23-2015, 07:51 PM
Calling out the coach is so easy to do. I'm not saying Hoiberg isn't at fault for their struggles, but when is someone on the Bulls going to openly criticize Derrick Rose?

Derrick Rose has been unmitigated disaster this year. When is someone going to call out Derrick Rose for attempting 15 shots per game?

effen5
12-23-2015, 07:57 PM
This team lost it's identity when they fired Thibs. This team doesn't even know how to play anymore. It's embarrassing.

effen5
12-23-2015, 07:59 PM
Calling out the coach is so easy to do. I'm not saying Hoiberg isn't at fault for their struggles, but when is someone on the Bulls going to openly criticize Derrick Rose?

Derrick Rose has been unmitigated disaster this year. When is someone going to call out Derrick Rose for attempting 15 shots per game?

Because he's Garpax's *****.

KG2TB
12-23-2015, 08:33 PM
This team lost it's identity when they fired Thibs. This team doesn't even know how to play anymore. It's embarrassing.

Yeah, they were so great last year and had an amazing identity of not even being top 10 defensively. Thibs started the circle comments in the pre season and the team was up and down all year. Even losing to the 6ers :laugh2:

Your love for thibs is weird. The bulls had the same problems last year as they do this year. If there's any difference between the two teams, it's so marginal that it's basically trivial. The bulls have lacked an identity for 2 seasons now.

effen5
12-24-2015, 12:03 AM
Yeah, they were so great last year and had an amazing identity of not even being top 10 defensively. Thibs started the circle comments in the pre season and the team was up and down all year. Even losing to the 6ers :laugh2:

Your love for thibs is weird. The bulls had the same problems last year as they do this year. If there's any difference between the two teams, it's so marginal that it's basically trivial. The bulls have lacked an identity for 2 seasons now.

Sure there were times where they looked looked up and down but at the same time you can also include that injuries were also a big part of why they dropped in defense...specifically jono being hurt all year.

Yes we lost to Philly last year...but at the same time...thibs hasn't had superstar talent outside of one year during his tenure as a bull. As we can see now how almost everyone on this team is underperforming, thibs maximized everyones talents...from Marco to nate to even dj augustin. Pau even had his best year under thibs.

As much as jono hated thibs...hes the reason why they were so up and down last year. He's the energy guy for this team. He was the leader of this team the last 5 years but he played hurt all year.

The issue with this team last year wasn't thibs...it was far from it. He maxed all the ****** talent garpax threw at him. The other issue other than jono was the mentality of derrick rose whose ****** play trickled down to everyone. Look how derrick is playing this year and how the rest of the players are following his lead by playing nonchalantly.

How garpax still has a job is unbelievable. They didnt make any significant trades or signings during roses injury yet they fired thibs because he didnt win enough playoff games? 2 years ago...thibs took a team with marco, nate, and noah to the playoffs to the second round to the heat...where JL3 had an impact game.... I mean seriously...the lack of talent on this team the last few years is alarming.

Too bad Pax is going to get the Kenny Williams treatment and have a job for life. This team will never win a title until JR is dead.

Shammyguy3
12-24-2015, 01:06 PM
Sure there were times where they looked looked up and down but at the same time you can also include that injuries were also a big part of why they dropped in defense...specifically jono being hurt all year.

Yes we lost to Philly last year...but at the same time...thibs hasn't had superstar talent outside of one year during his tenure as a bull. As we can see now how almost everyone on this team is underperforming, thibs maximized everyones talents...from Marco to nate to even dj augustin. Pau even had his best year under thibs.

As much as jono hated thibs...hes the reason why they were so up and down last year. He's the energy guy for this team. He was the leader of this team the last 5 years but he played hurt all year.

The issue with this team last year wasn't thibs...it was far from it. He maxed all the ****** talent garpax threw at him. The other issue other than jono was the mentality of derrick rose whose ****** play trickled down to everyone. Look how derrick is playing this year and how the rest of the players are following his lead by playing nonchalantly.

How garpax still has a job is unbelievable. They didnt make any significant trades or signings during roses injury yet they fired thibs because he didnt win enough playoff games? 2 years ago...thibs took a team with marco, nate, and noah to the playoffs to the second round to the heat...where JL3 had an impact game.... I mean seriously...the lack of talent on this team the last few years is alarming.

Too bad Pax is going to get the Kenny Williams treatment and have a job for life. This team will never win a title until JR is dead.

Thibs definitely did that, but it was not ****** talent that was given to Thibs. I think it just so happens that when the team started tuning Thibs out is when they started to reach their peaks or started to hit their decline. Pau is old and has a lot of miles on him, he played in the summer like it was his swan song for Spain and now under a new system he just looks terrible. Rose is worse than ever, but that's completely unavoidable on GarPax's front. Noah is older and often hurt, Taj is older and likely playing through being hurt like he always has, etc.


I don't think Thibs being here instead of Fred would see different results from this team. It's just not as talented as it was a year ago, which yes I do blame GarPax a good bit for not making more moves to help Fred out.


EDIT: another thing, how would the Bulls have won without GarPax at the helm? Would another GM have come in and made this roster a championship winner? Highly doubtful - because there's no way a different GM and VP would have convinced Lebron or Melo to come here. And there's no way that we could have acquired Kevin Durant, Stephen Curry, Anthony Davis, etc in a trade.

The Bulls FO did the best they could when they had to revert to plan Bs, not their fault Rose's injury crippled this franchise for 4+ seasons.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
12-24-2015, 02:56 PM
Queue in a million Butler trade ideas. j/k

5ass
12-24-2015, 03:30 PM
Queue in a million Butler trade ideas. j/k

Butler for Mario, Harris and 2 1st round picks... hell, i'll add the Lakers pick as well since its Christmas. So 3 1sts, Mario, and Harris

effen5
12-24-2015, 04:37 PM
Thibs definitely did that, but it was not ****** talent that was given to Thibs. I think it just so happens that when the team started tuning Thibs out is when they started to reach their peaks or started to hit their decline. Pau is old and has a lot of miles on him, he played in the summer like it was his swan song for Spain and now under a new system he just looks terrible. Rose is worse than ever, but that's completely unavoidable on GarPax's front. Noah is older and often hurt, Taj is older and likely playing through being hurt like he always has, etc.


I don't think Thibs being here instead of Fred would see different results from this team. It's just not as talented as it was a year ago, which yes I do blame GarPax a good bit for not making more moves to help Fred out.


EDIT: another thing, how would the Bulls have won without GarPax at the helm? Would another GM have come in and made this roster a championship winner? Highly doubtful - because there's no way a different GM and VP would have convinced Lebron or Melo to come here. And there's no way that we could have acquired Kevin Durant, Stephen Curry, Anthony Davis, etc in a trade.

The Bulls FO did the best they could when they had to revert to plan Bs, not their fault Rose's injury crippled this franchise for 4+ seasons.

Then at what point can we blame the front office for consistently failing at bringing in another playmaker to this team? Do we give them another ten years to see if they can bring in another player? And you absolutely do not know what another gm could have done to bring in a free agent....the fact of the matter is this...this front office has a terrible reputation around the league, and the other fact is that they cannot bring in another playmaker via free agency or trade and we have to bank on free agency which is extremely difficult to do.

And I've been saying that this team hasn't been talented for years now and needed a change from 2 years ago...you know this. You know I've wanted the front office fired for a long time now.

2-ONE-5
12-24-2015, 05:53 PM
Butler to Philly for Saric, Noel, and 2 first rounders.

5ass
12-24-2015, 06:20 PM
Butler to Philly for Saric, Noel, and 2 first rounders.

Besides the value here, I don't think he's a good fit for Philly. They really still only have Okafor, who isn't a good player right now. They're still not making the play offs this year, and no more high picks, so Okafor+Butler is going to have to be your foundation. It'll take a year or two for them to acquire a good enough supporting cast, and develop Okafor. So basically Butler would be 28 before he's on a legit team that can make some noise in the play offs. Okafor would be 21-22. By the time Okafor hits his peak, Butler would be declining. This gives the Sixes a very short window of opportunity to win the championship (that's IF Okafor develops into a stud and the Sixers assemble a very good supporting cast)

FriedTofuz
12-24-2015, 06:23 PM
derozan for butler straight up.

Shammyguy3
12-24-2015, 08:23 PM
Then at what point can we blame the front office for consistently failing at bringing in another playmaker to this team? Do we give them another ten years to see if they can bring in another player? And you absolutely do not know what another gm could have done to bring in a free agent....the fact of the matter is this...this front office has a terrible reputation around the league, and the other fact is that they cannot bring in another playmaker via free agency or trade and we have to bank on free agency which is extremely difficult to do.

And I've been saying that this team hasn't been talented for years now and needed a change from 2 years ago...you know this. You know I've wanted the front office fired for a long time now.



The only blame that I lay at the Front Office's feet is:
1) handling the Thibs situation in not the best fashion internally, not necessarily in the media and open which I think they were fine with
2) not having the balls to blow this team up this season.

You bring up this terrible reputation for the front office, yet how come we were able to sign Boozer and Pau to below market value deals? Let's face it, if you don't have Lebron James, Stephen Curry, Dirk Nowitzki, Greg Popovich + company, you aren't likely to win. The Bulls had their shot with Rose in his prime, the second we got multiple playmakers on the team (Butler, Noah, Pau) Rose was done. The timing never lined up. I can't blame the FO for Rose's injuries crippling the franchise.

I'd give this front office 2 more seasons after this with Hoiberg as their last shot. If that doesn't cut it, then it's likely time for a new direction with new people and fresh connections.

Stunner
12-24-2015, 09:10 PM
Butler for Mario, Harris and 2 1st round picks... hell, i'll add the Lakers pick as well since its Christmas. So 3 1sts, Mario, and Harris

Turn Harris into Oladipo and deal

5ass
12-24-2015, 09:34 PM
Turn Harris into Oladipo and deal

They're about the same age and Harris is the better player. Don't sleep on Harris. His defense took a MAJOR step forward this season. He's also a good rebounder for both forward positions. He's not getting many shots with the Magic, but he's a 20 PPG guy for sure. He still has a high ceiling IMO. I would not be surprised if in his prime he's as good as Paul Millsap. Maybe Victor has more potential, but I think Harris is more likely to realise his potential. This is coming from someone who didn't want the Magic to resign Harris. Now I'm so glad we did.

The only reason I would want Oladipo on the Magic is because the perimeter defense with Payton, Oladipo, Gordon, Fournier and Butler would be elite.

What if we sent Harris+Noah to the Pacers with Myles Turner (+ a 1st round pick) going to the Bulls? Mario, Turner and 3 1sts seems like a good package. We could also throw in Napier so you could move him to a third team. I think the Hawks might be a good trade parter with Schroder going to the Bulls. Bulls would need to move one or two of McDermott, Niko, Snell, ect.

But if you can end up with

Schroder
Mario
Portis
Turner
and 4 EXTRA 1st round picks in the next two years that would be a great start to a rebuild. It really shouldn't take more than two/three years to rebuild.

KG2TB
12-25-2015, 01:16 AM
I'm curious what Magic fans would want for Harris. If the Bulls offered any type of package that didn't include Jimmy Butler, would there be any interest? What would it take? Or would they tell us to **** off?

5ass
12-25-2015, 03:58 AM
I'm curious what Magic fans would want for Harris. If the Bulls offered any type of package that didn't include Jimmy Butler, would there be any interest? What would it take? Or would they tell us to **** off?

He's our second leading scorer. We're not going to trade him for multiple decent assets. We have more than enough depth already. I don't see it happening, unless a third team gets involved. Even then its unlikely because I think the Magic are probably looking to trade their assets for an established star.

2-ONE-5
12-25-2015, 10:13 AM
Besides the value here, I don't think he's a good fit for Philly. They really still only have Okafor, who isn't a good player right now. They're still not making the play offs this year, and no more high picks, so Okafor+Butler is going to have to be your foundation. It'll take a year or two for them to acquire a good enough supporting cast, and develop Okafor. So basically Butler would be 28 before he's on a legit team that can make some noise in the play offs. Okafor would be 21-22. By the time Okafor hits his peak, Butler would be declining. This gives the Sixes a very short window of opportunity to win the championship (that's IF Okafor develops into a stud and the Sixers assemble a very good supporting cast)

Butler is a good fit anywhere and he was scheduled to meet with us in the offseason and lol Okafor isnt good right now (im not arguing that in here though)

5ass
12-25-2015, 03:41 PM
Butler is a good fit anywhere and he was scheduled to meet with us in the offseason and lol Okafor isnt good right now (im not arguing that in here though)

He's good for a rookie, but as an NBA player Okafor isn't good yet. That's ok, most rookies aren't

2-ONE-5
12-25-2015, 04:31 PM
lol ok.

5ass
12-25-2015, 04:43 PM
lol ok.

Humour me. Where do you think he ranks among starting centres?

KG2TB
12-26-2015, 02:18 AM
He's our second leading scorer. We're not going to trade him for multiple decent assets. We have more than enough depth already. I don't see it happening, unless a third team gets involved. Even then its unlikely because I think the Magic are probably looking to trade their assets for an established star.

Makes sense and that's what I figured. I don't think it would happen. However, what do you think of this deal: Pau Gasol, Niko Mirotic, Tony Snell, Kings pick for Tobias?

5ass
12-26-2015, 02:34 AM
Makes sense and that's what I figured. I don't think it would happen. However, what do you think of this deal: Pau Gasol, Niko Mirotic, Tony Snell, Kings pick for Tobias?

Gasol wouldn't fit here. Defensively it won't work with him and Vucevic.

KG2TB
12-26-2015, 02:44 AM
Gasol wouldn't fit here. Defensively it won't work with him and Vucevic.

Noah?

5ass
12-26-2015, 02:50 AM
Noah?

I would still pass. Can't trade a very productive 23 year old for a declining center. Not good for the future.

KG2TB
12-26-2015, 03:02 AM
I would still pass. Can't trade a very productive 23 year old for a declining center. Not good for the future.

Agreed. Best offer we could muster would probably be something like Taj, Niko, Doug, Snell, 1st rounder for Tobias. That's a haul and a half, but I think both teams actually get better. At least in the long term.

5ass
12-26-2015, 03:33 AM
Agreed. Best offer we could muster would probably be something like Taj, Niko, Doug, Snell, 1st rounder for Tobias. That's a haul and a half, but I think both teams actually get better. At least in the long term.

I'd still pass lol. Sorry but what does this trade achieve for us? Taj is useful, him and Frye can cover like 36mpg at PF. McD won't find minutes here with Gordon, Mario and Fournier taking up SF minutes. We need a shooter, but its going to be Mario. Snell would have the same problem. Mirotic would battle with Andrew Nicholson for minutes at PF, and honestly he probably loses that battle. We don't need depth. Team is already very deep and basically every single player having a career year. Why mess with what's working? Unless its a star coming back, I don't see a trade being made.

KG2TB
12-26-2015, 03:41 AM
I'd still pass lol. Sorry but what does this trade achieve for us? Taj is useful, him and Frye can cover like 36mpg at PF. McD won't find minutes here with Gordon, Mario and Fournier taking up SF minutes. We need a shooter, but its going to be Mario. Snell would have the same problem. Mirotic would battle with Andrew Nicholson for minutes at PF, and honestly he probably loses that battle. We don't need depth. Team is already very deep and basically every single player having a career year. Why mess with what's working? Unless its a star coming back, I don't see a trade being made.

Like I said, I don't think the Bulls have the pieces to get it done. I'm just throwing out some packages that could be offered up but would ultimately fall short.

Gander13SM
12-26-2015, 08:06 AM
Like I said, I don't think the Bulls have the pieces to get it done. I'm just throwing out some packages that could be offered up but would ultimately fall short.

A third or fourth team would need to be involved. Maybe something involving Cousins to Orlando for draft picks and Vucevic plus a couple of young wings, Harris to Chicago.