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Matter.
12-17-2015, 12:34 PM
Thursday, December 17, 2015


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Time: 7:00 PM ET
Location: Time Warner Cable Arena, Charlotte, NC


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Time: 8:00 PM ET
Location: Quicken Loans Arena, Cleveland, OH


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Time: 10:30 PM ET
Location: Staples Center, Los Angeles, CA

Vee-Rex
12-17-2015, 09:33 PM
Cavs are gonna lose by 18. We can't stop OKC.

Vee-Rex
12-17-2015, 10:06 PM
Kevin Love sucks.

zn23
12-17-2015, 10:27 PM
The Raps just got shafted hard by the officials...

Walker loses the ball, Kyle Lowry and Biyombo call for timeout at 2.8 seconds, the ref doesn't make the call until Derozan gets to half and drains a half court shot.

So not only did the raps not get time back on the clock, which should have been 2.8 seconds, they also don't count the half court shot by Derozan and instead only give the Raps 0.7 seconds. Unbelievable.

ClutchTime
12-17-2015, 10:46 PM
Hornets win in OT.

Vee-Rex
12-17-2015, 10:46 PM
OKC is the superior team, no matter what the result is. Our problem isn't even our offense. We have no answer for Durant and Westy.

Vee-Rex
12-17-2015, 11:04 PM
I feel like the Cavs are playing at 110% intensity and OKC is playing at 80% intensity.

Vee-Rex
12-17-2015, 11:08 PM
This is an entertaining game

Vee-Rex
12-17-2015, 11:08 PM
OKC left Durant and Westy out for far too long

Vee-Rex
12-17-2015, 11:16 PM
Cavs playing like their lives are on the line. OKC is lackadaisical... rather surprising.

zn23
12-17-2015, 11:37 PM
LeBron is pretty amazing...

SteBO
12-17-2015, 11:48 PM
OKC left Durant and Westy out for far too long
And THIS is what lost OKC the game combined with LBJ doing what LBJ does. That lineup to start the 4th quarter was just awful.

5ass
12-17-2015, 11:55 PM
OKC left Durant and Westy out for far too long

That's because Thunder FO put a terrible team around them. Even on paper it was obvious there was a lack of talent surrounding their big three. Re-signed Kanter and he can't even play 30 mpg because his defense is so terrible. What a shame. A dynasty ruined.

tredigs
12-18-2015, 12:03 AM
OKC left Durant and Westy out for far too long

He does this all the time. And their play as a team drops significantly every time. I cannot for the life of me understand how he does not close the leak on this very simple fix. It's OK to stagger the two at times, Billy.

Two very strange plays involving Lebron b2b. One where he simply crushed Jason Day's wife and sent her to the hospital (followed by JR Smith cracking up watching the jumbo-tron on national TV which was just awkward), and the next where he passed the ball to himself and was not called for a travel. They showed it on replay and the ref was directly in front of them. I cannot for the life of me understand how that was not called.

tredigs
12-18-2015, 12:05 AM
That's because Thunder FO put a terrible team around them. Even on paper it was obvious there was a lack of talent surrounding their big three. Re-signed Kanter and he can't even play 30 mpg because his defense is so terrible. What a shame. A dynasty ruined.

At least they still have Ibaka, and Adams is a capable defensive center. I think Kanter works fine as a bench piece. What made no sense was the trade of Lamb for Dion ****ing Waiters. Horrible move. They do need a 3+D guy as well. This team is coached really poorly - worse than under Brooks - and that is hurting them as much as anything. Still the third best team in the West and who knows what happens in the post-season, but they've definitely underwhelmed.

Arch Stanton
12-18-2015, 12:41 AM
OKC is the superior team, no matter what the result is. Our problem isn't even our offense. We have no answer for Durant and Westy.

Huh? Stop with the master of panic crap. This is a meaningless game that we won.

Arch Stanton
12-18-2015, 12:47 AM
FYI everyone when LeBron dribble-dribble-shoots, or holds the ball for extended periods of time, he's most likely resting and/or slowing/controlling the pace. It certainly looks ugly, but most often effective.

flea
12-18-2015, 12:57 AM
At least they still have Ibaka, and Adams is a capable defensive center. I think Kanter works fine as a bench piece. What made no sense was the trade of Lamb for Dion ****ing Waiters. Horrible move. They do need a 3+D guy as well. This team is coached really poorly - worse than under Brooks - and that is hurting them as much as anything. Still the third best team in the West and who knows what happens in the post-season, but they've definitely underwhelmed.

Lol I guess it's nice when you're underwhelming and yet you're the consensus 3rd best team in the league only because the 2 in front of you are defensive and offensive juggernauts. Maybe the defense has underwhelmed but both of OKC's stars are having career years and they look a lot better than under Brooks to me. You've been on the "Billy Donovan is a bad coach" since day 1 though, I still don't get it. It's not his fault Kanter doesn't understand that centers belong under the rim on transition defense.

I think they've performed fine considering they're definitely less talented than the top 2 teams. Underwhelming so far to me is Rockets, maybe the Clippers. But the season is young yet.

Arch Stanton
12-18-2015, 01:16 AM
I think OKC is top heavy. Do I need to elaborate?

Vee-Rex
12-18-2015, 01:19 AM
Huh? Stop with the master of panic crap. This is a meaningless game that we won.

They looked like the better team, it's just an observation. Yet they just didn't match the intensity of the Cavs.

Maybe it's because they were on the 2nd night of a b2b. Westy wasn't quite as aggressive as he normally is and Durant was in chill mode, yet they seemed to move the ball better. Their points looked much much easier than the Cavs points.

1. Gave up tons of transition points on what should be fundamental defense.
2. Not aggressive
3. Got destroyed on the rebounds in the 4th.

All signs of being tired OR not having the kind of fire you want out of your team. Take your pick - either way they'll lose against top opponents if they can't play as hard.

Vee-Rex
12-18-2015, 01:22 AM
With Shumpert and Irving I think it's a much closer comparison in terms of talent and overall effectiveness.

With that said, I'm proud of the defensive play of Richard Jefferson and Kevin Love. RJ was all over Durant and Love was active on anyone coming in the paint.

Arch Stanton
12-18-2015, 01:28 AM
They looked like the better team, it's just an observation. Yet they just didn't match the intensity of the Cavs.

Maybe it's because they were on the 2nd night of a b2b. Westy wasn't quite as aggressive as he normally is and Durant was in chill mode, yet they seemed to move the ball better. Their points looked much much easier than the Cavs points.

1. Gave up tons of transition points on what should be fundamental defense.
2. Not aggressive
3. Got destroyed on the rebounds in the 4th.

All signs of being tired OR not having the kind of fire you want out of your team. Take your pick - either way they'll lose against top opponents if they can't play as hard.

Meh, it's unrealistic to assess either team this early in the season and with the circumstances both teams dealt with. That being said, I really don't see OKC as a threat. They're top heavy talent wise and I don't see them beating SAS or GS in a playoff series. Does anyone?

Sadds The Gr8
12-18-2015, 01:30 AM
Reggie briefin Kobe like crazy

Arch Stanton
12-18-2015, 01:31 AM
TNT, ESPN, and NBATV need to stop playing the 4 win Lakers on national TV. They're an embarrassment. Please play teams that are good.

lakerfan85
12-18-2015, 01:35 AM
They're going to play them because Kobe is retiring..

FlashBolt
12-18-2015, 01:36 AM
TNT, ESPN, and NBATV need to stop playing the 4 win Lakers on national TV. They're an embarrassment. Please play teams that are good.

Lakers still draw ratings so they will be played whether or not anyone wants it to be. Great game by the Cavs today, though. We should have won but for some reason, Billy thinks it's a great idea to bench KD/Westbrook while LeBron and Co. go on a lengthy run. I also hate Dion Waiters with a passion.

FlashBolt
12-18-2015, 01:37 AM
They're going to play them because Kobe is retiring..

Schedule was made before he was retiring officially, though. Lakers are always going to be played. Too big of a market/fanbase for it not to be.

lakerfan85
12-18-2015, 01:41 AM
There's been some games picked up since the announcement though..

Arch Stanton
12-18-2015, 01:43 AM
Lakers still draw ratings so they will be played whether or not anyone wants it to be. Great game by the Cavs today, though. We should have won but for some reason, Billy thinks it's a great idea to bench KD/Westbrook while LeBron and Co. go on a lengthy run. I also hate Dion Waiters with a passion.

Did NY draw ratings, when they played like an expansion team the past ten years? I don't remember them getting the same attention when they were that awful?
Yeah I don't get why OKC took on Dion... Thank you for that. We call him Saint Weirdo, which is his anagram.

IKnowHoops
12-18-2015, 03:37 AM
Dion Waiters, man was I wrong about him. He is one of the more severe cases of having a lot of talent and athletic ability to play basketball, but mentally is bad enough to negate the talent enough to have a garbage impact on the game. Beasley also falls into this category as well.

Lebron still looks athletically superior to everyone. So as much as he's lost, he's still got that leg on everyone. Not saying he is the fastest or strongest, but his combo os size and speed is still unmatched, and its still not close IMO.

At the end of the day I think Steph is playing the best basket ball in the NBA...but I will be surprised if Lebron isn't the best player on the floor that night when they play.

Ya know even though Steph is playing the best ball in the league consistently, there are nights when he's not the best player on the floor, or even the best player on his team. Its rare, like probably 4 times this year, but to me anyway, it always seems like Lebron is the best player on the floor. Like he always does just enough to be the best player. The only problem with that is he plays to his competition. He always looks amazing against KD

Yanks All Day
12-18-2015, 10:15 AM
I actually completely disagree with the idea that Oklahoma City is even comparable to the Cavs. The healthy Thunder played about evenly with the Cavaliers who were missing Kyrie Irving, Iman Shumpert, Mo Williams. That's probably their THREE best guards.

At the end of the day, OKC is the exact same team they've been since Harden was traded away: Kevin Durant and Russell Westbrook creating all the offense and hoping everyone else can get a little hot. Ibaka can't create his own shot. Adams and Kanter are big bodies, and everyone else is a spotty role player. If one of KD or RW is off even a little, the Thunder have no chance of beating a good team.

Last night, LeBron took over ball handling duties and took over the game. Cleveland's next 5 scorers were Tristan Thompson (14), Richard Jefferson (13), Dellavedova, Love, and Smith (11 each). So Cleveland's best player showed up, its top 3 guards were out, and Kevin Love had a bad game, and they still pulled one out against OKC. On a night where KD and RW combined for 17/35 for 52 points. The problem is that OKC has nothing else. We're all enamored by the pairing of Durant and Westbrook that we overlook the fact that they're just not that well-rounded of a team.

If a healthy Cavs team played a healthy Thunder team in a 7 game series, Cleveland would win 4 straight games by 15 each. Cleveland's best player is better than OKC's best player and the Cavs are a more well-rounded team top-to-bottom than the Thunder.

Vee-Rex
12-18-2015, 11:47 AM
Kevin Love doesn't show up for big games. I'm noticing that trend having watched almost all his games as a Cavalier. His lack of athleticism really hurts him when his opponents are flying around with high energy.

IDK, I guess I simply disagree and think OKC matches up very well with us. Their points were all so easy. They lost that game purely on bad substitutions and lack of effort.

I do think a fully healthy Cavs team can beat the Thunder in a 7 game series just as I think we can beat anyone, but it definitely wouldn't be easy and it definitely wouldn't be a 4 game sweep.

Yanks All Day
12-18-2015, 01:40 PM
Kevin Love doesn't show up for big games. I'm noticing that trend having watched almost all his games as a Cavalier. His lack of athleticism really hurts him when his opponents are flying around with high energy.

IDK, I guess I simply disagree and think OKC matches up very well with us. Their points were all so easy. They lost that game purely on bad substitutions and lack of effort.

I do think a fully healthy Cavs team can beat the Thunder in a 7 game series just as I think we can beat anyone, but it definitely wouldn't be easy and it definitely wouldn't be a 4 game sweep.

OKC's problem is, and always has been, a lack of consistent scoring outside of Durant and Westbrook. They got rid of Harden and went with Ibaka. I think it was a great move. He's a defensive presence and is expanding his range. He's their mismatch against teams like San Antonio. Great.

The issue is that they've never replaced that scoring with anyone else. Kevin Martin was alright, but was largely a miss. Guys like Waiters aren't the answer. They just don't have another scorer. It's why LeBron never loses to Kevin Durant. KD has to stick LBJ, but LeBron is a willing passer. His teams usually have more options. Smith and Shumpert can actually put the ball on the floor and make a defender miss. Irving and Love are stars. He has teammates that can score 15 points each on any given night and take the burden off LeBron. Westbrook and KD don't have that luxury. It results in LBJ guarding KD, and KD becoming a little more inefficient than he'd like. It means Westbrook has to expend more energy covering guards that can actually score the ball.

OKC just doesn't have the team that gives LeBron-led teams problems. His Heat dominated them in the Finals. His Cavs beat them while short-handed. It's just a bad matchup because LeBron's teams have multiple scorers while OKC has 2. So if they slip up or tire at all, it's a loss. KD and RW shot 50% last night and scored 52 points and lost. LeBron and Kevin Love (his 2nd best last night) combined for 44 points on 16-37 (43%) shooting, and that's while missing one of the best scorers in the NBA in Kyrie Irving.

It's not a fair matchup for OKC. They rely on 2 stars and hope role players get hot, with Ibaka the only consistent contributor. The rest are prayers. Andre Roberson started at the 2. Cleveland gets to rely on 3 stars when healthy, and can count on 3 or 4 other role players (Shumpert, Smith, Thompson, Mosgov) consistently scoring 10+ points. It's less pressure on Cleveland's stars. Heck, LeBron had 7 turnovers last night even.

Walking away from last night's game, I thought "OK, that looks about right for the Thunder." But for Cleveland it was "Wow. They played bad. They were missing 3 quality guards. And still pulled it out." OKC is a name value team, and they have been for years. They have a great star combo and little else. It's great for regular season success, but it's also the reason they don't win championships or consistently beat great teams. Quite frankly, they're just overrated.

Arch Stanton
12-18-2015, 01:53 PM
Kevin Love doesn't show up for big games. I'm noticing that trend having watched almost all his games as a Cavalier. His lack of athleticism really hurts him when his opponents are flying around with high energy.

IDK, I guess I simply disagree and think OKC matches up very well with us. Their points were all so easy. They lost that game purely on bad substitutions and lack of effort.

I do think a fully healthy Cavs team can beat the Thunder in a 7 game series just as I think we can beat anyone, but it definitely wouldn't be easy and it definitely wouldn't be a 4 game sweep.

I don't think this is necessarily true. He played really well in the playoffs last season, before he got hurt. I think it just depends on the match up.

tredigs
12-18-2015, 02:03 PM
OKC was also on the road and on a b2b. I don't love the way they're constructed and their new coach is an absolute joke with his rotations that sit Durant + Westbrook at the same time for far too long every game, but that road b2b matters quite a bit. KD always has high scoring, efficient games versus Bron. He's actually only scored less than 25 on him once, and it was 24 on 50% from the field in his first game as a rookie in Seatle. That part is not their issue. They are indeed outmatched by Bron's teams the majority of the time they've played, and LBJ gets up for the matchup big time. That's as hard as I've seen him try this season.

Vee-Rex
12-18-2015, 02:19 PM
OKC's problem is, and always has been, a lack of consistent scoring outside of Durant and Westbrook. They got rid of Harden and went with Ibaka. I think it was a great move. He's a defensive presence and is expanding his range. He's their mismatch against teams like San Antonio. Great.

The issue is that they've never replaced that scoring with anyone else. Kevin Martin was alright, but was largely a miss. Guys like Waiters aren't the answer. They just don't have another scorer. It's why LeBron never loses to Kevin Durant. KD has to stick LBJ, but LeBron is a willing passer. His teams usually have more options. Smith and Shumpert can actually put the ball on the floor and make a defender miss. Irving and Love are stars. He has teammates that can score 15 points each on any given night and take the burden off LeBron. Westbrook and KD don't have that luxury. It results in LBJ guarding KD, and KD becoming a little more inefficient than he'd like. It means Westbrook has to expend more energy covering guards that can actually score the ball.

OKC just doesn't have the team that gives LeBron-led teams problems. His Heat dominated them in the Finals. His Cavs beat them while short-handed. It's just a bad matchup because LeBron's teams have multiple scorers while OKC has 2. So if they slip up or tire at all, it's a loss. KD and RW shot 50% last night and scored 52 points and lost. LeBron and Kevin Love (his 2nd best last night) combined for 44 points on 16-37 (43%) shooting, and that's while missing one of the best scorers in the NBA in Kyrie Irving.

It's not a fair matchup for OKC. They rely on 2 stars and hope role players get hot, with Ibaka the only consistent contributor. The rest are prayers. Andre Roberson started at the 2. Cleveland gets to rely on 3 stars when healthy, and can count on 3 or 4 other role players (Shumpert, Smith, Thompson, Mosgov) consistently scoring 10+ points. It's less pressure on Cleveland's stars. Heck, LeBron had 7 turnovers last night even.

Walking away from last night's game, I thought "OK, that looks about right for the Thunder." But for Cleveland it was "Wow. They played bad. They were missing 3 quality guards. And still pulled it out." OKC is a name value team, and they have been for years. They have a great star combo and little else. It's great for regular season success, but it's also the reason they don't win championships or consistently beat great teams. Quite frankly, they're just overrated.

I can't really disagree with your post... you make a ton of great points. All of you do, tbh.

I just felt really uncomfortable with the flow of that game and wouldn't feel confident in a 7-game series against the Thunder with last night's Cavs team. Although the Thunder got more calls their way, the Cavs got some very questionable calls their way in the 4th, and a simple coaching adjustment would've probably gotten the Thunder a win even with the lackluster effort.

tredigs
12-18-2015, 02:39 PM
Dion Waiters, man was I wrong about him. He is one of the more severe cases of having a lot of talent and athletic ability to play basketball, but mentally is bad enough to negate the talent enough to have a garbage impact on the game. Beasley also falls into this category as well.

Lebron still looks athletically superior to everyone. So as much as he's lost, he's still got that leg on everyone. Not saying he is the fastest or strongest, but his combo os size and speed is still unmatched, and its still not close IMO.

At the end of the day I think Steph is playing the best basket ball in the NBA...but I will be surprised if Lebron isn't the best player on the floor that night when they play.

Ya know even though Steph is playing the best ball in the league consistently, there are nights when he's not the best player on the floor, or even the best player on his team. Its rare, like probably 4 times this year, but to me anyway, it always seems like Lebron is the best player on the floor. Like he always does just enough to be the best player. The only problem with that is he plays to his competition. He always looks amazing against KD

We'll see. Even on what we'd call an "off night", Curry still demands an amount of attention that I have not seen matched by any other player, and that (along with the double teams they produce beyond the 3pt line on PnR's) to me is arguably the most important commodity in the NBA for winning games. Draymond roams free offensively and has the luxury of choosing to shoot an open three or kick it out to a wide open 3pt shooter (if they cave to help). The Cavs are long and strong and are best suited to cover a Curry/Draymond PnR as anyone, but we'll see if they're ready for how in tune the Warriors have become offensively right now. Also, I'd argue the Cavs don't have a player capable outside of Bron having the overall dominant performance of Draymond, or simply going red-hot offensively like Klay. Probably no player other than Curry or Klay are actual threats for 25+ point quarters to their level when they get going, and Curry smartly goes into full distributor mode when he sees Klay feeling it. I don't think it's a negative thing to not be the best player every night, I like the ultra team-ball mentality (not to say Bron isn't like that or that Kyrie won't have plenty of nights where he's the best player on the floor for them when he's back).

DanG
12-18-2015, 02:43 PM
Not surprised by OKC's play. Ibaka is so inconsistant and his defense is overrated too IMO... if the key to your success is Ibaka shooting wide open 3s then you are not going very far. Last night he made a couple, but he is literally wide open on every single one. Him and Roberson should be good defensively yet OKC ranks #11 in defensive efficiency. Their biggest competitions SAS, GSW and CLE rank #1, #5, #10 respectively. Obviously Cleveland is missing Shumpert and Kyrie plus we all know they will be on another level when the playoffs come. It's just the wrong players on the wrong team man. You have to have a Shooting Guard who can score because KD and Russ get so much attention. Last night it was just tough to watch Roberson, he is so hesitant to take wide open threes and those extra passes what he makes explains why they have so many turnovers, damn they rank 26th in the league.

It's not about putting talented players on the team, you have to have chemistry and a fit. They need to make moves before the deadline or they'll get demolished by GSW or SAS.

IKnowHoops
12-19-2015, 12:30 AM
We'll see. Even on what we'd call an "off night", Curry still demands an amount of attention that I have not seen matched by any other player, and that (along with the double teams they produce beyond the 3pt line on PnR's) to me is arguably the most important commodity in the NBA for winning games. Draymond roams free offensively and has the luxury of choosing to shoot an open three or kick it out to a wide open 3pt shooter (if they cave to help). The Cavs are long and strong and are best suited to cover a Curry/Draymond PnR as anyone, but we'll see if they're ready for how in tune the Warriors have become offensively right now. Also, I'd argue the Cavs don't have a player capable outside of Bron having the overall dominant performance of Draymond, or simply going red-hot offensively like Klay. Probably no player other than Curry or Klay are actual threats for 25+ point quarters to their level when they get going, and Curry smartly goes into full distributor mode when he sees Klay feeling it. I don't think it's a negative thing to not be the best player every night, I like the ultra team-ball mentality (not to say Bron isn't like that or that Kyrie won't have plenty of nights where he's the best player on the floor for them when he's back).

I agree