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Wade n Fade
12-15-2015, 06:36 PM
So the Heat might look to move Whiteside. http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/miami-heat/heat-blog/sfl-miami-heat-hassan-whiteside-s121515-story.html

Ira Winderman pointed out a similar situation where there was chatter about Chalmers being on the move to Memphis, then it died down, then the trade happened. Miami has made major moves in the past when it counted. With less picks available, Miami doesn't have the prospects to put together to entice a team to commit to a trade. If Sac took back Whiteside + Winslow + Deng and maybe a Birdman or McBob, then that's a start, but Miami cannot trade many picks because of their previous deals. For Sac, a deal for Boogie w/ Miami makes little sense, but if Karl had his way, Boogie would be gone tomorrow morning. A trade for Dwight would not involve Winslow at all. Miami cannot trade for Howard because he is a headache, but there could be talks for a deal.

warfelg
12-15-2015, 07:08 PM
As much as it could hurt them short term, moving Whiteside would be a good move for Miami. With Wade and Bosh starting to get up there in age, and Winslow as about it outside of Whiteside for young players, and lacking their own pick, Miami should get out ahead here.

Who needs/wants a center to shake things up though? Dallas? Toronto? NOP?

Raidaz4Life
12-15-2015, 07:15 PM
I'd trade Clarkson for him

slaker619
12-15-2015, 07:15 PM
Damn

5ass
12-15-2015, 07:17 PM
The problem is Whiteside might not have much value with him being an UFA.

Wade n Fade
12-15-2015, 07:23 PM
Whiteside alone can fetch a good haul, but Miami wants a young big to pair with Bosh in the front court. If that's Bum Howard, then I have no choice but to accept if I was a fan because Whiteside leaving could allow us to lure a Durant or another SF here next offseason. I just don't want to lose Winslow. He is the real deal.

Eagles4Lyfe
12-15-2015, 07:24 PM
As much as it could hurt them short term, moving Whiteside would be a good move for Miami. With Wade and Bosh starting to get up there in age, and Winslow as about it outside of Whiteside for young players, and lacking their own pick, Miami should get out ahead here.

Who needs/wants a center to shake things up though? Dallas? Toronto? NOP?

Why do the Raptors need to trade for a center when they have a superior one already.

warfelg
12-15-2015, 07:27 PM
Why do the Raptors need to trade for a center when they have a superior one already.

Is Val that much better? I dunno, I was kinda tossing out teams.

bucketss
12-15-2015, 07:36 PM
not suprised.

whiteside will be a FA, he will be looking for a max. and coach doesn't seem to play him in the 4th. i suggested a dwight trade but was laughed at by heat fans :o

Wade n Fade
12-15-2015, 07:42 PM
Why do the Raptors need to trade for a center when they have a superior one already.

Cmon, I love the Raptors too, but J-Val isn't as good as Whiteside. Whiteside is a better defensive anchor w/ blocking, a higher PER, a better rebounder, and has a high shooting percentage close to the rim. His athleticism is off the charts too. He has much more potential than J-Val.

Wade n Fade
12-15-2015, 07:48 PM
not suprised.

whiteside will be a FA, he will be looking for a max. and coach doesn't seem to play him in the 4th. i suggested a dwight trade but was laughed at by heat fans :o

Believe it or not, that's the only realistic option at this point in time. Unless the Kings cave into Karl's demands or the Heat include Winslow, then it's Howard. I call him Coward Howard or Bum Howard, but subjectivity aside, Dwight is still one of the premium bigs in the league. His contract is about to end in a year or two. The Heat get a big with bird rights under contract for a year or two, don't have to give up Winslow, get to keep Wade's rights, and Houston is able to get more flexibility. I am not a fan of Howard due to his health issues, but I would be content if the Heat traded for him w/o giving Winslow. With that in mind, a Dragic, Wade, Winslow, Bosh, and Howard starting 5 is scary as hell.

basketballkitty
12-15-2015, 07:50 PM
Rather then look to trade Whiteside...who won't return much because he is a walk away free agent after this season...the Heat aught to be looking for some SUCKER out there to take " Goran Dragic " off their hands. What a overrated BUST he's turned out to be.

Dade County
12-15-2015, 07:50 PM
AD then KD in the offseason

Tony_Starks
12-15-2015, 07:53 PM
No way Sacramento gives up Cousins for Whiteside.

Vlade likes to smoke cigars, not crack.

Vee-Rex
12-15-2015, 07:54 PM
Believe it or not, that's the only realistic option at this point in time. Unless the Kings cave into Karl's demands or the Heat include Winslow, then it's Howard. I call him Coward Howard or Bum Howard, but subjectivity aside, Dwight is still one of the premium bigs in the league. His contract is about to end in a year or two. The Heat get a big with bird rights under contract for a year or two, don't have to give up Winslow, get to keep Wade's rights, and Houston is able to get more flexibility. I am not a fan of Howard due to his health issues, but I would be content if the Heat traded for him w/o giving Winslow. With that in mind, a Dragic, Wade, Winslow, Bosh, and Howard starting 5 is scary as hell.

Not really. Howard sucks.

Necrosis
12-15-2015, 08:08 PM
Cmon, I love the Raptors too, but J-Val isn't as good as Whiteside. Whiteside is a better defensive anchor w/ blocking, a higher PER, a better rebounder, and has a high shooting percentage close to the rim. His athleticism is off the charts too. He has much more potential than J-Val.

No no no.. homerism bro.

Let's be objective here, I like both, I wanted to draft whiteside, he reminded me of a young theo ratliff, much bigger, not as agile.
Hassan is 26 years of age, Jonas is 23, who has more potential? quite clearly jonas, hence the high draft pick, he was a high potential big.

Hassan scores mostly off putbacks, oops or rolls to the rim. Jonas is far far more efficient back to the basket player, in fact he is one of the best PPP wise. So despite points per game similarities Jonas has far more potential. Dwight is an example, physically gifted but cant shoot mid range, struggles at the line etc. Jonas has far more potential as a offensive centerpiece. In three years at 26 he could be scoring 16-20ppg, that's realistic. He is a good mid range shooter, quick release.

Hassan is a far better shot blocker, he is better here, and Jonas will never be as good a shot blocker. Hassan is better as a post defender and both struggle with rotations compared to some of the best defensive big men.

Hassan is more athletic, Jonas has a bigger frame, similar wingspan, 7'7, Jonas is wider and still growing. Jonas will be stronger when he is 26, he is already bullying people at 23, Hassan was weak inside with the kings, that was his knock. He has fixed that quite obviously.

Jonas is a much better free throw shooter, it's not close, it's as lopsided as the blocks.

Jonas is on a decent contract considering his age, Hassan may want a max who would you rather have?

Dade County
12-15-2015, 08:22 PM
AD then KD in the offseason

WaDe03
12-15-2015, 08:35 PM
Rumors are the Heat are going after Cousins Melo or Howard. Winslow and Whiteside will probably be gone. We're in win now mode.

GiantsSwaGG
12-15-2015, 08:54 PM
Melo for Whiteside and Winslow

HandsOnTheWheel
12-15-2015, 08:57 PM
Rumor has it.

tredigs
12-15-2015, 09:30 PM
Just mentioned this in the Howard thread, but this kid ranks 23rrd in RPM among centers. It's not an "end all" stat by any means, but personally it confirms my thoughts on him as a player. He does not understand how to rotate defensively and in general is just a blind shot-blocker on the court. He is not a winning player. And I get the feeling he's even worse in the locker room. I would not accept him on a minimum contract on my team if I was a GM.

Athletically, a beast, but I understand why he was in China 2 years ago.

blahblahyoutoo
12-15-2015, 09:43 PM
No way Sacramento gives up Cousins for Whiteside.

Vlade likes to smoke cigars, not crack.

george karl and cousins don't get along.
whiteside and winslow for cousins? i'd do it.

Dade County
12-15-2015, 09:44 PM
AD & Anderson for Whitesidem Winslow, Tyler Johnson, McRob & Deng

I fixed that for you.

Why the hell would Miami trade both Whiteside & Winslow for Melo... But I know my trade is crazier lmao

.....


But I get a feeling that Miami will some how get a star player back in this trade, so I am hoping its AD; this will give us that edge we need to land KD in the offseason (yeah Wade is going to have to play ball and sign a lengthy contract that spreads his money out).

blahblahyoutoo
12-15-2015, 09:49 PM
Just mentioned this in the Howard thread, but this kid ranks 23rrd in RPM among centers. It's not an "end all" stat by any means, but personally it confirms my thoughts on him as a player. He does not understand how to rotate defensively and in general is just a blind shot-blocker on the court. He is not a winning player. And I get the feeling he's even worse in the locker room. I would not accept him on a minimum contract on my team if I was a GM.

Athletically, a beast, but I understand why he was in China 2 years ago.

our numbers are better when he's on the bench.

warfelg
12-15-2015, 09:54 PM
I'm still laughing at the idea of Whiteside, Winslow, McRob, Deng being enough to get AD.

At that point Sixers could offer Noel, Saric, Grant, Wroten, LAL pick and get him.

Point being, it's no where near enough.

WaDe03
12-15-2015, 10:02 PM
I'm still laughing at the idea of Whiteside, Winslow, McRob, Deng being enough to get AD.

At that point Sixers could offer Noel, Saric, Grant, Wroten, LAL pick and get him.

Point being, it's no where near enough.

Ummmmmmm that Sixers trade would be nowhere near as good as the trade from the Heat he proposed lol. Obviously neither will happen though.

WaDe03
12-15-2015, 10:03 PM
Just mentioned this in the Howard thread, but this kid ranks 23rrd in RPM among centers. It's not an "end all" stat by any means, but personally it confirms my thoughts on him as a player. He does not understand how to rotate defensively and in general is just a blind shot-blocker on the court. He is not a winning player. And I get the feeling he's even worse in the locker room. I would not accept him on a minimum contract on my team if I was a GM.

Athletically, a beast, but I understand why he was in China 2 years ago.

Lmao! You wouldn't even pay the minimum for Whiteside? That may be the dumbest thing I've ever read on this forum. He's head and shoulders better than Bogut.

BKLYNpigeon
12-15-2015, 10:07 PM
Whiteside is a Liability. He can't finish a game in the 4th because all Whiteside is worried about stuffing his stats. He doesn't really play great help defense and doesn't rotate well at all. Just cares about getting blocks. lol

Thats why Miami doesn't want to pay him.

warfelg
12-15-2015, 10:08 PM
Ummmmmmm that Sixers trade would be nowhere near as good as the trade from the Heat he proposed lol. Obviously neither will happen though.

1 young play, no picks, 1 old guy that will walk, 1 guy that could walk (and at a position they gave out stupid money), and Josh ****ing McRoberts.

That is one sad package.

Controlled C for another 2 years, 4 years of a PF with point forward skills, a RFA combo guard, a 3 spot player under team control for 2 more years, and a potential top 5 pick.

Still not great for a superstar but better.

Dade County
12-15-2015, 10:20 PM
I'm still laughing at the idea of Whiteside, Winslow, McRob, Deng being enough to get AD.

At that point Sixers could offer Noel, Saric, Grant, Wroten, LAL pick and get him.

Point being, it's no where near enough.

lmao

Nothing would be good enough for AD, and of course I know that.


Ummmmmmm that Sixers trade would be nowhere near as good as the trade from the Heat he proposed lol. Obviously neither will happen though.

Agreed.

HandsOnTheWheel
12-15-2015, 10:26 PM
Just mentioned this in the Howard thread, but this kid ranks 23rrd in RPM among centers. It's not an "end all" stat by any means, but personally it confirms my thoughts on him as a player. He does not understand how to rotate defensively and in general is just a blind shot-blocker on the court. He is not a winning player. And I get the feeling he's even worse in the locker room. I would not accept him on a minimum contract on my team if I was a GM.

Athletically, a beast, but I understand why he was in China 2 years ago.
I wouldn't want you as a GM if I were an owner. LOL.

tredigs
12-15-2015, 10:29 PM
Lmao! You wouldn't even pay the minimum for Whiteside? That may be the dumbest thing I've ever read on this forum. He's head and shoulders better than Bogut.

There is no scenario where I would want Whiteside + his ego on the team over Bogut OR Ezeli. I'm not sure if you've caught on, but Whiteside is a black hole offensively. Hence having 11 total assists in his entire career. As I said, him being ranked 23rd among centers in RPM was not a shocker. I was more tempered in calling him "not a winner", but to be clear, the Chinese ball-player is a loser. It's clear as day.


AGAIN another stat I just checked is his net offensive/def on-off rating. He's -9.4. That's not a fluke. Believe what you will, but this kid is loser.

Chronz
12-15-2015, 10:31 PM
No way Sacramento gives up Cousins for Whiteside.

Vlade likes to smoke cigars, not crack.

Noice

tredigs
12-15-2015, 10:32 PM
I wouldn't want you as a GM if I were an owner. LOL.

Shocking that you guys suck when he is on the court, ay?

HandsOnTheWheel
12-15-2015, 10:50 PM
A little late to backtrack. There's a reason why he doesn't play 4th quarters anymore. His +/- went way down once teams started playing small to close out games and on top of that, he is an awful FT shooter prompting teams to intentionally foul him.

To say you wouldn't sign him to the minimum? IDK man.

tredigs
12-15-2015, 10:55 PM
A little late to backtrack. There's a reason why he doesn't play 4th quarters anymore. His +/- went way down once teams started playing small to close out games and on top of that, he is an awful FT shooter prompting teams to intentionally foul him.

To say you wouldn't sign him to the minimum? IDK man.

What does he offer the Warriors? Or any winning organization? As you said, he's benched in 4th quarters on a slightly above .500 team. That's his peak.

Chronz
12-15-2015, 10:59 PM
There is no scenario where I would want Whiteside + his ego on the team over Bogut OR Ezeli. I'm not sure if you've caught on, but Whiteside is a black hole offensively. Hence having 11 total assists in his entire career. As I said, him being ranked 23rd among centers in RPM was not a shocker. I was more tempered in calling him "not a winner", but to be clear, the Chinese ball-player is a loser. It's clear as day.


AGAIN another stat I just checked is his net offensive/def on-off rating. He's -9.4. That's not a fluke. Believe what you will, but this kid is loser.

His individual production is off the charts but watching him play, I do sorta get that Javale vibe. Miami fans were insisting his lack of passing acumen was by design but that wouldn't explain his turnovers and insanely low assists. I can never accept more passing turnovers than assists. DJ for example, is a good passer who understands his role .Whiteside just wants to score ALL the time.

tredigs
12-15-2015, 11:02 PM
His individual production is off the charts but watching him play, I do sorta get that Javale vibe. Miami fans were insisting his lack of passing acumen was by design but that wouldn't explain his turnovers and insanely low assists. I can never accept more passing turnovers than assists. DJ for example, is a good passer who understands his role .Whiteside just wants to score ALL the time.

When I watch Whiteside I see Nick Young in a larger frame.

jerellh528
12-15-2015, 11:04 PM
But with less swag. I'm glad ppl are seeing whiteside for what he is. He was becoming massively overrated on this board for a while

HandsOnTheWheel
12-15-2015, 11:20 PM
What does he offer the Warriors?

Ahhhh, so you meant if you were a GM of the Warriors, gotcha.


Or any winning organization?
Define winning organization.


As you said, he's benched in 4th quarters on a slightly above .500 team. That's his peak.
It's no different with Deandre Jordan. Heat have a slightly better record than the Clips ATM. So "winning organizations" wouldn't sign Jordan to the minimum either? The two cases are relatively similar.

tredigs
12-15-2015, 11:32 PM
Ahhhh, so you meant if you were a GM of the Warriors, gotcha.


Define winning organization.


It's no different with Deandre Jordan. Heat have a slightly better record than the Clips ATM. So "winning organizations" wouldn't sign Jordan to the minimum either? The two cases are relatively similar.

Oh I don't LOVE DJ, but he's head and shoulders above Whiteside imo. He knows his place defensively, and although also overrated in my opinion, he's a plus defender. I don't look forward to seeing him on the court, but with Whiteside if I have a bet against the Heat, I love him getting minutes. He's so athletic and talented, but SO stupid. He does not even get when to stick and when to switch on a PnR. How is that possible for a 26 yr old professional player? He gets burned on it constantly.

To your last point, let's say a winning organization is a team that will be a playoff presence. I would not want him on any team that is trying to contend. It actually shocks me how many Heat fans defend him. Why do you suppose your team is massively worse off when he is on the court? How do you explain that?

Chronz
12-15-2015, 11:35 PM
Whiteside reminds me of a younger DJ on defense, DJ used to play defenders for the block instead of preventing the shot in the first place. Thats why DJ used to get benched come 4th quarters. DJ is still overrated but hes anchoring everything we do defensively.

JasonJohnHorn
12-15-2015, 11:44 PM
No way Sacramento gives up Cousins for Whiteside.

Vlade likes to smoke cigars, not crack.

If there are other pieces involved, it's not a crazy idea.

HandsOnTheWheel
12-16-2015, 12:09 AM
Oh I don't LOVE DJ, but he's head and shoulders above Whiteside imo. He knows his place defensively, and although also overrated in my opinion, he's a plus defender. I don't look forward to seeing him on the court, but with Whiteside if I have a bet against the Heat, I love him getting minutes. He's so athletic and talented, but SO stupid. He does not even get when to stick and when to switch on a PnR. How is that possible for a 26 yr old professional player? He gets burned on it constantly.

To your last point, let's say a winning organization is a team that will be a playoff presence. I would not want him on any team that is trying to contend. It actually shocks me how many Heat fans defend him. Why do you suppose your team is massively worse off when he is on the court? How do you explain that?

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Head+and+shoulders

I see.

kobe4thewinbang
12-16-2015, 12:23 AM
Why would they trade Whiteside? He's a glue guy and they can just let the Wade and Bosh era die, which won't be for a while (at least with Bosh).

Wade n Fade
12-16-2015, 01:24 AM
Since the DeAndre Jordan comparisons are quite popular with Whiteside, Jordan got paid big time this past offseason. Whitened needs to develop his offensive game more, but the shooting % is similar to Jordan's, the blocks too, and Whiteside is an elite rebounder too. If I am Houston, I would gladly take a young potential center like Whiteside because he is a better fit in Houston because he isn't the type of guy who needs a "rest" schedule like Howard. Howard is a threat, but he isn't what he once was. I still think that it's realistically Howard or trade Whiteside for assets. I trust Riley and will let him do his thing.

WaDe03
12-16-2015, 01:31 AM
I agree with some of the criticism of Whiteside. He needs to get his defensive IQ up. But can you imagine him with a higher defensive IQ when he's already the best **** blocker in the league by a wide margin? He may be 26 but everyone on here knows the NBA is head and shoulders above any other league and he only has like a full year of experience. He may be older but he's basically a rookie with experience. If you give me a rookie who does the things he does I would be ecstatic.

tredigs
12-16-2015, 02:30 AM
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Head+and+shoulders

I see.

Was that supposed to be witty? I'm not following.

HandsOnTheWheel
12-16-2015, 03:28 AM
I thought it was.

numba1CHANGsta
12-16-2015, 07:00 AM
This wouldn't make sense for SAC. First off Whiteside would be a FA, which means SAC would give up Cousins for a half a season rental. Plus MIA don't have many picks to offer. If Cousins gets traded it could be to a team who has multiple first round picks, maybe BOS?

ewing
12-16-2015, 09:49 AM
As much as it could hurt them short term, moving Whiteside would be a good move for Miami. With Wade and Bosh starting to get up there in age, and Winslow as about it outside of Whiteside for young players, and lacking their own pick, Miami should get out ahead here.

Who needs/wants a center to shake things up though? Dallas? Toronto? NOP?

The Heat might be the second best team in the East and you want them to blow it up?. What are you a sixers fan? If Whiteside starts to be a consistent offensive player as the season goes on and they stay healthy they could come out of the East

ewing
12-16-2015, 09:50 AM
Whiteside alone can fetch a good haul, but Miami wants a young big to pair with Bosh in the front court. If that's Bum Howard, then I have no choice but to accept if I was a fan because Whiteside leaving could allow us to lure a Durant or another SF here next offseason. I just don't want to lose Winslow. He is the real deal.


Unless, they have seriously reservations about Whitesides mental makeup i do not see how this is a good idea

ewing
12-16-2015, 09:54 AM
Rumors are the Heat are going after Cousins Melo or Howard. Winslow and Whiteside will probably be gone. We're in win now mode.

you can have Melo. Put Whiteside next to KP and we have two 7 footers that can RUN

ewing
12-16-2015, 09:57 AM
Ummmmmmm that Sixers trade would be nowhere near as good as the trade from the Heat he proposed lol. Obviously neither will happen though.


Hinkie does nothing all day but field calls about Wroten and Grant. You didn't know?

warfelg
12-16-2015, 09:57 AM
The Heat might be the second best team in the East and you want them to blow it up?. What are you a sixers fan? If Whiteside starts to be a consistent offensive player as the season goes on and they stay healthy they could come out of the East

Where did I say blow it up? I said if they can move Whiteside and bring in young players and/or future picks they should. As in with Wade/Bosh there they have a chance, and instead of taking a 1 year shot at a title with Howard, they should add to their future to keep the window open.

If they move Winslow/Whiteside for Howard, they are blowing up their future for the now.
If they move Whiteside for a young player, a older C, and a lotto protected pick, they are re-tooling the now while keeping the future bright.

nycericanguy
12-16-2015, 09:58 AM
I said before the year Whiteside was being dramatically overrated. Alot of MIA fans calling him a top 3 C and all star.

He puts up some decent RAW numbers, but he's not a skilled basketball player and he has a McGee type BBall IQ.

that the guy has 9 assists in his CAREER... is astonishingly and embarrassing. He's a big body and might score some points but he's not going to make any sort of correct pass out of the post and he can't hit a FT. He blocks shots but MIA is still better with him defensively OFF the court.

He's a big athlete, not a basketball player.

nycericanguy
12-16-2015, 09:59 AM
you can have Melo. Put Whiteside next to KP and we have two 7 footers that can RUN

that doesn't work in today's league anymore, and Whiteside has no bird rights so we'd have a hard time resigning him.

ewing
12-16-2015, 10:05 AM
Where did I say blow it up? I said if they can move Whiteside and bring in young players and/or future picks they should. As in with Wade/Bosh there they have a chance, and instead of taking a 1 year shot at a title with Howard, they should add to their future to keep the window open.

If they move Winslow/Whiteside for Howard, they are blowing up their future for the now.
If they move Whiteside for a young player, a older C, and a lotto protected pick, they are re-tooling the now while keeping the future bright.

"As much as it could hurt them short term, moving Whiteside would be a good move for Miami". If you move Whiteside for future picks you are closing your window with Bosh and Wade. Right now they if things break right they can make noise.

ewing
12-16-2015, 10:06 AM
that doesn't work in today's league anymore, and Whiteside has no bird rights so we'd have a hard time resigning him.

Spurs seem to be winning games.

warfelg
12-16-2015, 10:07 AM
I said before the year Whiteside was being dramatically overrated. Alot of MIA fans calling him a top 3 C and all star.

He puts up some decent RAW numbers, but he's not a skilled basketball player and he has a McGee type BBall IQ.

that the guy has 9 assists in his CAREER... is astonishingly and embarrassing. He's a big body and might score some points but he's not going to make any sort of correct pass out of the post and he can't hit a FT. He blocks shots but MIA is still better with him defensively OFF the court.

He's a big athlete, not a basketball player.

I think it speaks to the sad state of big men in the NBA. Look at the number of C's in the NBA getting $10m AAV that in no way would have gotten it 10-20 years ago.

nycericanguy
12-16-2015, 10:09 AM
Spurs seem to be winning games.

Whiteside is a moron, he's no Duncan.

warfelg
12-16-2015, 10:10 AM
"As much as it could hurt them short term, moving Whiteside would be a good move for Miami". If you move Whiteside for future picks you are closing your window with Bosh and Wade. Right now they if things break right they can make noise.

Again how is that blowing it up? Heck from reading this entire thread, they might be better off without him anyways. It might hurt them in being 3 seed rather than 2 seed.

ewing
12-16-2015, 10:17 AM
Again how is that blowing it up? Heck from reading this entire thread, they might be better off without him anyways. It might hurt them in being 3 seed rather than 2 seed.


if you are the 2 seed you don't trade a 26 year old center with Whitesides ability for future picks unless you think the dude is a lost cause for some reason. If they think Whiteside is time bomb and want him out of town the way Karl wants DC out of town go for it. Otherwise when you are a 2nd seed with veteran leaders you don't take steps backwards.

warfelg
12-16-2015, 10:21 AM
if you are the 2 seed you don't trade a 26 year old center with Whitesides ability for future picks unless you think the dude is a lost cause for some reason. If they think Whiteside is time bomb and want him out of town the way Karl wants DC out of town go for it. Otherwise when you are a 2nd seed with veteran leaders you don't take steps backwards.

So then your stance is they should keep him?

I mean from the way it sounds, they are serious about moving him. And if I were in a spot were I was moving a player like Whiteside, and I lacked picks and young players like the Heat, I would try to get some of those in return to set up a continued stretch of winning.

ewing
12-16-2015, 10:29 AM
So then your stance is they should keep him?

I mean from the way it sounds, they are serious about moving him. And if I were in a spot were I was moving a player like Whiteside, and I lacked picks and young players like the Heat, I would try to get some of those in return to set up a continued stretch of winning.


I would not trade him with the intention of taking step backwards to go forward down the line

basketballkitty
12-16-2015, 10:38 AM
I would not trade him with the intention of taking step backwards to go forward down the line



But what you're missing is that there is no way the Heat can keep him beyond this year....no way possible. So they are not in any type of bargaining position to get a huge haul back for him. They will have to take what they can get....and best case is a single Mid-1st round pick...in the 18-23 area. But Miami is not going to get a High 1st rounder or a good young player for Whiteside when the team trading for him will have no leverage to keep him there after this season.

ewing
12-16-2015, 10:44 AM
But what you're missing is that there is no way the Heat can keep him beyond this year....no way possible. So they are not in any type of bargaining position to get a huge haul back for him. They will have to take what they can get....and best case is a single Mid-1st round pick...in the 18-23 area. But Miami is not going to get a High 1st rounder or a good young player for Whiteside when the team trading for him will have no leverage to keep him there after this season.


I did not realize the Heat would not have the space/bird rights to bring him back. That is a ****** spot. I thought the "Jeremy Lin rule" made it so they could match. Under normal circumstances i would never intentionally take steps backwards in Miami's situation. thanks

nycericanguy
12-16-2015, 10:56 AM
But what you're missing is that there is no way the Heat can keep him beyond this year....no way possible. So they are not in any type of bargaining position to get a huge haul back for him. They will have to take what they can get....and best case is a single Mid-1st round pick...in the 18-23 area. But Miami is not going to get a High 1st rounder or a good young player for Whiteside when the team trading for him will have no leverage to keep him there after this season.

thats simply not true... they only have 48m in committed cap. Wade can be resigned for 12-15m per year. still leaves more than enough for Whiteside.

the question is, does MIA want to pay WHiteside that much? i sure wouldnt

True Sports Fan
12-16-2015, 11:12 AM
No way Sacramento gives up Cousins for Whiteside.

Vlade likes to smoke cigars, not crack.

x100

warfelg
12-16-2015, 11:18 AM
thats simply not true... they only have 48m in committed cap. Wade can be resigned for 12-15m per year. still leaves more than enough for Whiteside.

the question is, does MIA want to pay WHiteside that much? i sure wouldnt

Well it's not that cut and dry.

For the Heat to keep both Whiteside and Wade, they would have to make a risky move. Whiteside has Early Bird Rights, which they would have to renounce or he's limited to $8mil AAV, and they would have to renounce the Bird Rights to Wade to get his cap hold off the books. Then they could feasibly sign Whiteside to the Max, and use the remaining space on Wade, and fill out the other 8 spots with min contracts.

And there's a reason so many players set up their contracts to end this year:
Higher cap means bigger max deal.

What would be best for the Heat is a cost controlled big (a guy on rookie contract), getting a late first (replace the picks they don't have), and maybe some other small part.

That would give them the ability to use the remainder of the cap to really bring in some quality players to fill out the team, rather than a bunch of over the hill ring chasers like they have been doing.

Synyster89
12-16-2015, 11:28 AM
if you are the 2 seed you don't trade a 26 year old center with Whitesides ability for future picks unless you think the dude is a lost cause for some reason. If they think Whiteside is time bomb and want him out of town the way Karl wants DC out of town go for it. Otherwise when you are a 2nd seed with veteran leaders you don't take steps backwards.

Why do you keep referring to the Heat as the 2 seed? I get they are .5 games out of 2nd place, but they are also only 1.5 games from not being in the playoffs at all. The East is so tightly grouped, it is way too premature to start declaring them the 2 seed.

nycericanguy
12-16-2015, 11:32 AM
Well it's not that cut and dry.

For the Heat to keep both Whiteside and Wade, they would have to make a risky move. Whiteside has Early Bird Rights, which they would have to renounce or he's limited to $8mil AAV, and they would have to renounce the Bird Rights to Wade to get his cap hold off the books. Then they could feasibly sign Whiteside to the Max, and use the remaining space on Wade, and fill out the other 8 spots with min contracts.

And there's a reason so many players set up their contracts to end this year:
Higher cap means bigger max deal.

What would be best for the Heat is a cost controlled big (a guy on rookie contract), getting a late first (replace the picks they don't have), and maybe some other small part.

That would give them the ability to use the remainder of the cap to really bring in some quality players to fill out the team, rather than a bunch of over the hill ring chasers like they have been doing.

Bird rights don't play any factor here. MIA has the cap space to sign both.

What good are Wade's bird rights anyway? His cap hold would be over $20m with bird rights! They are better off renouncing him and signing him for $13-15m over 3-4 years or so.

Whiteside's bird rights are also irrelevant because he is going to get more than $9m... if they are going to sign him they need to sign him with their cap not with bird rights.

Unless i'm missing something, it's exactly that cut and dry.

ewing
12-16-2015, 11:39 AM
Why do you keep referring to the Heat as the 2 seed? I get they are .5 games out of 2nd place, but they are also only 1.5 games from not being in the playoffs at all. The East is so tightly grouped, it is way too premature to start declaring them the 2 seed.

He referred to them as a 2 seed as constituted. I took that as meaning he thinks right now the Heat are the 2nd best team in the East. I think if the Heat stay healthy I think they can make noise. If Whiteside develops some more over the course of the season and they stay healthy i think they are very dangerous.

Vee-Rex
12-16-2015, 12:46 PM
He referred to them as a 2 seed as constituted. I took that as meaning he thinks right now the Heat are the 2nd best team in the East. I think if the Heat stay healthy I think they can make noise. If Whiteside develops some more over the course of the season and they stay healthy i think they are very dangerous.

You know, before the season started I claimed the Heat needed to blow it up but that was a heavily debated topic and many people disagreed. I feel the same, if not more so. They have too many inconsistencies coupled with some glaring improvements needed to the roster.

1. Bosh is inconsistent
2. Wade is inconsistent
3. Dragic is inconsistent (and not playing well) because he's a poor fit for the system
4. No depth. The bench sucks
5. No good 3-point shooters.

Combine the above with the fact that Wade has to remain healthy and Spoelstra is mediocre. Whiteside is a moron and can cause locker-room issues at any given moment.

This team is going to decline when the season wears on and players get tired/acquire nagging injuries. The lack of depth is going to be destructive. We're only 24 games in and Wade is having the worst year in his career. His numbers are only going to go down (or he'll miss more games). For a 34 year old he's playing very well, but it's time for this franchise to look at the future.

All the contract issues that will crop up with Wade and Whiteside most likely going for a max... they need to completely blow it up and try to build around Winslow. Keep Wade (just because) and get rid of the rest for draft picks and future assets.

warfelg
12-16-2015, 12:57 PM
You know, before the season started I claimed the Heat needed to blow it up but that was a heavily debated topic and many people disagreed. I feel the same, if not more so. They have too many inconsistencies coupled with some glaring improvements needed to the roster.

1. Bosh is inconsistent
2. Wade is inconsistent
3. Dragic is inconsistent (and not playing well) because he's a poor fit for the system
4. No depth. The bench sucks
5. No good 3-point shooters.

Combine the above with the fact that Wade has to remain healthy and Spoelstra is mediocre. Whiteside is a moron and can cause locker-room issues at any given moment.

This team is going to decline when the season wears on and players get tired/acquire nagging injuries. The lack of depth is going to be destructive. We're only 24 games in and Wade is having the worst year in his career. His numbers are only going to go down (or he'll miss more games). For a 34 year old he's playing very well, but it's time for this franchise to look at the future.

All the contract issues that will crop up with Wade and Whiteside most likely going for a max... they need to completely blow it up and try to build around Winslow. Keep Wade (just because) and get rid of the rest for draft picks and future assets.

Interesting take. I think they should retool around Bosh, Wade, Winslow to get younger but still competitive. I'm not sure who you could move or for what since I'm not in front of my computer.

COOLbeans
12-16-2015, 02:33 PM
Dubs should move Bogut packaged with maybe Barnes for Whiteside.

Though in the end the Dubs will re-sign Barnes imo

Sadds The Gr8
12-16-2015, 02:44 PM
and ppl here were calling him a top 3 C a couple weeks ago...lol

hugepatsfan
12-16-2015, 03:02 PM
BOS doesn't have win now pieces but we could really use a shot blocker and we could offer MIA some picks/young players. Not sure they'd be interested in that sort of deal but if they are BOS could get involved.

AllBall
12-16-2015, 03:24 PM
It would be hard to move Whiteside because of his contract, but I wouldn't put anything past Riley.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
12-16-2015, 07:26 PM
Bird rights don't play any factor here. MIA has the cap space to sign both.

What good are Wade's bird rights anyway? His cap hold would be over $20m with bird rights! They are better off renouncing him and signing him for $13-15m over 3-4 years or so.

Whiteside's bird rights are also irrelevant because he is going to get more than $9m... if they are going to sign him they need to sign him with their cap not with bird rights.

Unless i'm missing something, it's exactly that cut and dry.

Spot on. Other then no full Bird rights mean Heat cant go over the cap to sign Whiteside. He has to be signed before they run out of cap room. Which be in the early goings of free agency. But most likely he will wanna be wined and dined like most free agents and take a tour of the country. So all in all if he lollygags around Miami could lose out on other free agents if they wanna strike fast. Wade probably has to be signed last.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
12-16-2015, 07:31 PM
It would be hard to move Whiteside because of his contract, but I wouldn't put anything past Riley.

He wouldn't be hard to trade just need more salary of other players throw in. Just not complete garage players to decrease the value to off set it.

MonroeFAN
12-16-2015, 07:53 PM
As much as it could hurt them short term, moving Whiteside would be a good move for Miami. With Wade and Bosh starting to get up there in age, and Winslow as about it outside of Whiteside for young players, and lacking their own pick, Miami should get out ahead here.

Who needs/wants a center to shake things up though? Dallas? Toronto? NOP?

Why do the Raptors need to trade for a center when they have a superior one already.

Yeah right