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Tony_Starks
12-15-2015, 04:38 PM
This story has Howard eventually ending up in Miami because of supposedly being tired of playing "second fiddle" to Harden.

Kindof a hard to believe. A) that Miami would give up a promising young Whiteside for a Dwight on the downside of his career

B) that Howard still wants to be "the man" at this stage in his career.

I'm sure the losing is Houston has them all frustrated but idk......


http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2015/12/15/sheridan-dwight-howard-unhappy-in-houston-headed-to-miami/

Redrum187
12-15-2015, 04:55 PM
According to the article, the Heat aren't really giving up anything. They can only offer Whiteside half of what his projected worth will be next season unless they renounce their rights to Wade. It would actually be smart to get someone on equal caliber rather than letting Whiteside walk for nothing.

What's strange is that the writer thinks he'll be the man over Chris Bosh and Wade? Granted, the most inefficient he has in his entire career (due to his progressive decline), I still see him and Bosh averaging more shot attempts than Howard.

Yanks All Day
12-15-2015, 04:59 PM
Hassan Whiteside is 26 and makes $981,348k this year. Dwight Howard is 30 and makes $22m. On the surface, it makes no sense. Given, Whiteside is about to get a big contract and Howard only has a player option for next year, in case cap space is the idea, but Miami has Dragic, Wade, and Bosh for right now and Winslow and Whiteside for the future. They'd be fools to give it up for Dwight Howard, and Pat Riley is no fool.

Ty22Mitchell
12-15-2015, 04:59 PM
IMO, Dwight would be a great piece to add to a championship club. I myself have a secret desire for Dwight to return to the Lakers (don't tell anyone), if they can pull a miracle and get KD (let's be honest, it's unlikely).

My problem with this report, if it is true, is at 30 years old a person should understand their strengths and weaknesses. Dwight isn't good enough, nor does it seem he has the temperament, to be THE GUY. IMO he isn't a cerebral player where he can reinvent himself. He is who he is at this point.

Ty22Mitchell
12-15-2015, 05:03 PM
Hassan Whiteside is 26 and makes $981,348k this year. Dwight Howard is 30 and makes $22m. On the surface, it makes no sense. Given, Whiteside is about to get a big contract and Howard only has a player option for next year, in case cap space is the idea, but Miami has Dragic, Wade, and Bosh for right now and Winslow and Whiteside for the future. They'd be fools to give it up for Dwight Howard, and Pat Riley is no fool.

According to OP's URL Miami is going to lose Whiteside this offseason because he'll demand a max contract, which they won't be able to pay. Do you know if that is accurate or not?

Tony_Starks
12-15-2015, 05:16 PM
IMO, Dwight would be a great piece to add to a championship club. I myself have a secret desire for Dwight to return to the Lakers (don't tell anyone), if they can pull a miracle and get KD (let's be honest, it's unlikely).

My problem with this report, if it is true, is at 30 years old a person should understand their strengths and weaknesses. Dwight isn't good enough, nor does it seem he has the temperament, to be THE GUY. IMO he isn't a cerebral player where he can reinvent himself. He is who he is at this point.

That's my skepticism with this report. As childish as Dwight is it's still hard for me to imagine he STILL insist on being "the man."

That would go way past immature and right on into delusional.

Snakeyestx
12-15-2015, 05:33 PM
The problem in Houston is the system, not the roster - and that system is run by the former assistant coach of the same system that is the problem - obviously improvements aren't forthcoming if all you're doing is having someone else draw up the same garbage plays.

SteBO
12-15-2015, 05:36 PM
According to OP's URL Miami is going to lose Whiteside this offseason because he'll demand a max contract, which they won't be able to pay. Do you know if that is accurate or not?
Miami can offer him the max. Thing is, Miami doesn't WANT to nor should they. He isn't worth the max. Too bad all it takes is one desperate team for that to be case in terms of market value.

Chronz
12-15-2015, 05:36 PM
IMO, Dwight would be a great piece to add to a championship club. I myself have a secret desire for Dwight to return to the Lakers (don't tell anyone), if they can pull a miracle and get KD (let's be honest, it's unlikely).

My problem with this report, if it is true, is at 30 years old a person should understand their strengths and weaknesses. Dwight isn't good enough, nor does it seem he has the temperament, to be THE GUY. IMO he isn't a cerebral player where he can reinvent himself. He is who he is at this point.
He's a 6" 9 version of Iverson. Incapable of coming to grips with his declining talent.

Chronz
12-15-2015, 05:38 PM
Miami can offer him the max. Thing is, Miami doesn't WANT to nor should they. He isn't worth the max. Too bad all it takes is one desperate team for that to be case in terms of market value.

Link? Unless they give up Wade how do they give him the max (Which he IS worth btw)

SteBO
12-15-2015, 05:39 PM
Link? Unless they give up Wade how do they give him the max (Which he IS worth btw)
No link necessary. Wade comes off the books after this season. He signed a one-year, $20 million deal.

LakersKB24
12-15-2015, 05:47 PM
According to OP's URL Miami is going to lose Whiteside this offseason because he'll demand a max contract, which they won't be able to pay. Do you know if that is accurate or not?

I would say, that Pat Riley will find a way to keep him. If you look at their payroll for next season they have about 48 million in salaries, which would mean that with the current cap, they would have 22 million to spend. However, the cap is expected to rise up to almost 90 million, due to the new TV deal if I'm not mistaken, so they could theoretically have about 40 million to spend.

Obviously, Wade is expiring and I don't think they will let him walk. Right now he makes 20 million and if we assume that he won't take more, they could throw the rest at Whiteside.

The thing is that I would think, that if the cap rises, salaries will rise as well and maybe Wade will demand more than what he gets right now. If that's the case the Heat might really have a problem, because Whiteside doesn't have Bird Rights so the Heat would have to make a choice. I don't believe they can sign Whiteside for the max first and then use Wade's Bird Rights.

Keep in mind that this is based on speculation, because there is no official salary cap for next year yet, but I would be surprised if they Heat won't be able to keep both.

5ass
12-15-2015, 06:18 PM
He should come back to Orlando and back up Vucevic.

warfelg
12-15-2015, 06:29 PM
I've got to ask what is wrong with this guy. I mean he's been on, what 3 teams in 5 years now? Unhappy with all three? And at best he gives you offensively what DeAndre Jordan gives you?

He is the tip of the spear that is the me first douchbaggery.

kdspurman
12-15-2015, 07:23 PM
The problem in Houston is the system, not the roster - and that system is run by the former assistant coach of the same system that is the problem - obviously improvements aren't forthcoming if all you're doing is having someone else draw up the same garbage plays.

It's got to be on the players too, at least in terms of effort and what not. With Harden he will always be the focal point, so it'll pretty much run through him regardless

TrueFan420
12-15-2015, 07:26 PM
I remember wanting to trade the lakers boguts expiring and Barnes to sign and trade us Dwight. Boy am I glad that didn't happen.

bucketss
12-15-2015, 07:40 PM
if im the cavs id give him tristan thompson

Aust
12-15-2015, 07:54 PM
Hahaha, this is satisfying to hear after the ribbing we constantly took from Rockets fans.

I've heard mixed responses. Can the Heat keep Whiteside? Is it possible they can keep both Wade and Whiteside? What about the rising cap?
There's no way I'd make that swap if I were Miami unless I'm in a bad situation.

D-BAGDAN
12-15-2015, 07:55 PM
Dwight isnt going to be happy anywhere unless a title is just handed to him. Typical entitled athlete that thinks the world revolves around him. If you want to win as a franchise, build without Dwight

Teeboy1487
12-15-2015, 08:20 PM
We all saw this coming lol. I have no opinion of Dwight Howard. Houston should just let him walk. That way, he can't ride Lebron's cocktails to a championship because they lack the cap. Don't trade him to a good situation. Let the coward walk.

JasonJohnHorn
12-15-2015, 08:33 PM
Dwight will NEVER be a great piece for a championship team because he will ALWAYS think he should be the man.

This is what happened in Orlando. They made a run to the final, and in the Conference finals, in a series they dominated, he walks into interviews and says he need more touches? WTF? He was on the way to the finals and he was more concerned about his scoring average than winning.

He was the same way in in LAL.

Now reports are saying he's the same way in HOU?


As talented as he is, he's only going to be a locker room issue. He'll be a distraction. He could be playing i GSW and he's be asking why Klay and Curry get more shots than him.

And what's worse, when they wanted to run the pick-and-roll with him and Nash, he put the kibosh on that and want the ball in the post.


It is so frustrating to see such a talented player who is so COMPLETELY out of touch with his limitations.

JasonJohnHorn
12-15-2015, 08:38 PM
Hahaha, this is satisfying to hear after the ribbing we constantly took from Rockets fans.

I've heard mixed responses. Can the Heat keep Whiteside? Is it possible they can keep both Wade and Whiteside? What about the rising cap?
There's no way I'd make that swap if I were Miami unless I'm in a bad situation.

I don't make that trade either; They already have Bosh for a post scorer, so Howard will just whine that he's not getting enough touches, and their defensive/rebounder is doing both better than Dwight right now, AND he's young, AND he's cheaper AND he doesn't cry that he's not getting enough touches.

basketballkitty
12-15-2015, 09:07 PM
Miami CANNOT offer Whiteside the Max. He signed an original 2 year deal, and CBA rules site the Early Bird rule which means the Heat can ONLY offer him about half of a Full Max salary....or to get Whitesides full Bird rights, he would have to play one more season in Miami at basically the league minimum...and that is NOT going to happen. And it's also a fact that 8 million will not get it done with so many other teams having a ton of free agent money to spend. So Miami has to either trade him...which won't bring much cause whatever team trading for him cannot extend him...and he could walk out on them. Or the Heat can keep him all this season, and lose him for nothing.


But it is an absolute impossibility that Miami will keep him beyond this season.

nycericanguy
12-15-2015, 09:15 PM
Miami CANNOT offer Whiteside the Max. He signed an original 2 year deal, and CBA rules site the Early Bird rule which means the Heat can ONLY offer him about half of a Full Max salary....or to get Whitesides full Bird rights, he would have to play one more season in Miami at basically the league minimum...and that is NOT going to happen. And it's also a fact that 8 million will not get it done with so many other teams having a ton of free agent money to spend. So Miami has to either trade him...which won't bring much cause whatever team trading for him cannot extend him...and he could walk out on them. Or the Heat can keep him all this season, and lose him for nothing.


But it is an absolute impossibility that Miami will keep him beyond this season.

they have the cap space to sign him to whatever they want... just can't go over the cap to sign him. But they only have $48 committed next year. They can resign Wade at $15m or so and still have enough to give Whiteside $20m.

phantasyyy
12-15-2015, 09:17 PM
they have the cap space to sign him to whatever they want... just can't go over the cap to sign him. But they only have $48 committed next year. They can resign Wade at $15m or so and still have enough to give Whiteside $20m.

Couldn't they just throw the max at whiteside/whatever other free agent that want THEN go over the cap to resign Wade... I mean surely that would best course of action to use the cap space?

phantasyyy
12-15-2015, 09:19 PM
Dwight will NEVER be a great piece for a championship team because he will ALWAYS think he should be the man.

This is what happened in Orlando. They made a run to the final, and in the Conference finals, in a series they dominated, he walks into interviews and says he need more touches? WTF? He was on the way to the finals and he was more concerned about his scoring average than winning.

He was the same way in in LAL.

Now reports are saying he's the same way in HOU?


As talented as he is, he's only going to be a locker room issue. He'll be a distraction. He could be playing i GSW and he's be asking why Klay and Curry get more shots than him.

And what's worse, when they wanted to run the pick-and-roll with him and Nash, he put the kibosh on that and want the ball in the post.


It is so frustrating to see such a talented player who is so COMPLETELY out of touch with his limitations.

I mean he is only averaging 13pts on 8fga.. shooting 60%, clearly something is going wrong with their offensive plan of attack. Team is 12-13 i think its time they stop chucking so many 3's and work the ball into the paint a little more to feed him

warfelg
12-15-2015, 09:21 PM
Couldn't they just throw the max at whiteside/whatever other free agent that want THEN go over the cap to resign Wade... I mean surely that would best course of action to use the cap space?

Wouldn't that require them renouncing rights to Wade or something like that?

tredigs
12-15-2015, 09:23 PM
When I watch Whiteside play he never, ever impresses me. Such an overrated shot blocker of a player. Ultra low BBIQ, even defensively. Just checked his RPM stats and he ranks 23rd among centers. Not surprised. He is not a winner.

WaDe03
12-15-2015, 10:11 PM
Guys the Heat can offer Whiteside the max lol. His max will be 22M I believe. **** Howard he's straight garbage in a maintenance program and a *****. Sorry for being so harsh but he's one of the only players I hate. I can't stand someone who is always fun and games on the court and doesn't play to win. He never looks like he cares win or lose.

We Will work something out for Cousins I believe. If not him then we will get Melo.

Chronz
12-15-2015, 10:28 PM
No link necessary. Wade comes off the books after this season. He signed a one-year, $20 million deal.

Thats kind of what Im hinting at. Would you trade Wade for Whiteside?

WaDe03
12-15-2015, 11:19 PM
Thats kind of what Im hinting at. Would you trade Wade for Whiteside?

We have enough for both lol.

RowBTrice
12-15-2015, 11:20 PM
Go figure.....he always gets unhappy.

warfelg
12-15-2015, 11:26 PM
Go figure.....he always gets unhappy.

Yup. Honestly, he would be better off just signing a bunch of 2-year deals from here on out. Be a hired gun for some 6-7-8-9 seed teams that will give you the money.

basketballkitty
12-16-2015, 12:24 AM
Guys the Heat can offer Whiteside the max lol. His max will be 22M I believe. **** Howard he's straight garbage in a maintenance program and a *****. Sorry for being so harsh but he's one of the only players I hate. I can't stand someone who is always fun and games on the court and doesn't play to win. He never looks like he cares win or lose.

We Will work something out for Cousins I believe. If not him then we will get Melo.





No they can't. Only way is if the Heat just renounce D-Wade's rights...and NO WAY will they ever do that. He is an Institution in Miami...so the MOST they can offer Whiteside will be 8 to 9 million...and no waydoes he accept that. Here is a piece from an article below....''





First of all, unless the Heat renounce their rights to Dwyane Wade, NBA salary cap rules will preclude them from offering Whiteside his full market value. Miami would be able to offer between $8-9 million, which is at least half of what the kid can get on the open market. On a full max deal, Whiteside would be looking at a $90 million payday, and nobody walks away from a $90 million payday.
Read more at http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2015/12/15/sheridan-dwight-howard-unhappy-in-houston-headed-to-miami/#LPXoG6Sh6cdBC7SW.99






There, got it now son ?



http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2015/12/15/sheridan-dwight-howard-unhappy-in-houston-headed-to-miami/

DODGERS&LAKERS
12-16-2015, 12:28 AM
We have enough for both lol.
well, they are at $49 million right now for next year with the cap projected to be at 89. You have to minus a couple million for your draft pick slot. They would then have to renounce every other player on the team which means you lose their bird rights. They wouldd both have to sign for about*$19 million that first year and fill out the roster with minimum contracts for the other 6 slots.

warfelg
12-16-2015, 12:30 AM
well, they are at $49 million right now for next year with the cap projected to be at 89. You have to minus a couple million for your draft pick slot. They would then have to renounce every other player on the team which means you lose their bird rights. They wouldd both have to sign for about*$19 million that first year and fill out the roster with minimum contracts for the other 8 slots.

Unless that pick is top-10 it doesn't matter.

Chronz
12-16-2015, 12:44 AM
We have enough for both lol.

We'll see

jerellh528
12-16-2015, 12:45 AM
It's kind of like you almost forget Howard is even in the league until reports like this come out. I'm not going to lie, it's pretty nice to see this after all the crap rocket fans gave laker fans about dwightmare. It's obvious he's a mental midget who has no clue what he wants.

TheNumber37
12-16-2015, 12:54 AM
He's a 6" 9 version of Iverson. Incapable of coming to grips with his declining talent.

Iverson> Howard

Iverson could definitely be THE GUY and win it all with him.

Wade n Fade
12-16-2015, 01:29 AM
I wonder how Phoenix or San Antonio would handle a Dwight Howard maintenance program relative to Houston?

WaDe03
12-16-2015, 01:36 AM
No they can't. Only way is if the Heat just renounce D-Wade's rights...and NO WAY will they ever do that. He is an Institution in Miami...so the MOST they can offer Whiteside will be 8 to 9 million...and no waydoes he accept that. Here is a piece from an article below....''





First of all, unless the Heat renounce their rights to Dwyane Wade, NBA salary cap rules will preclude them from offering Whiteside his full market value. Miami would be able to offer between $8-9 million, which is at least half of what the kid can get on the open market. On a full max deal, Whiteside would be looking at a $90 million payday, and nobody walks away from a $90 million payday.
Read more at http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2015/12/15/sheridan-dwight-howard-unhappy-in-houston-headed-to-miami/#LPXoG6Sh6cdBC7SW.99






There, got it now son ?



http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2015/12/15/sheridan-dwight-howard-unhappy-in-houston-headed-to-miami/

Why does that matter though? I'm no genius but I've seen many say Sheridan doesn't know what he's talking about with the cap situation. We owe 48 for next year and that's if we don't trade McRoberts. You sign Whiteside at his max of 22M which will have us at 70M. The limit is like 89 or 90 and Wade is a free agent. Why couldn't they just sign Wade to like a 4 year 15M a year deal that would put us at 85M?

WaDe03
12-16-2015, 01:37 AM
We'll see

Probably not lol. Seems like Riley has some **** he's about to shock the world with.

PowerHouse
12-16-2015, 02:11 AM
:yawn::yawn::yawn::yawn:

Another team, another disgruntled Howard. What else is new?

This is now the third team he's caused friction with, whatever team he goes to next watch out cuz the friction is now coming to you.

Chronz
12-16-2015, 02:50 AM
Probably not lol. Seems like Riley has some **** he's about to shock the world with.

Well lets put it this way, do you think Wade will command more than hes made this year or will he gladly accept a substantially lesser deal than what Bosh got last year?

WaDe03
12-16-2015, 03:13 AM
Well lets put it this way, do you think Wade will command more than hes made this year or will he gladly accept a substantially lesser deal than what Bosh got last year?

I think he takes a team friendly deal that won't be too much. He's better than Bosh so he deserves more money if the 2 but I think he'll stay for something like 4 year 60M. I could be completely wrong though. It really just depends on what happens with these trade rumors. If we get Cousins it will be great because I think his deal is like 16M a year so that will give us more money as opposed to Whitesides 22M.

G_S_W
12-16-2015, 03:19 AM
It's pretty amazing how far Howard has fallen off. Dude was a complete mess physically even on his first day in houston, and he's only deteriorated from that point on.

Maury probably wants howard to start practicing his 3's and become a stretch 4 from here on out, lol.

sep11ie
12-16-2015, 03:40 AM
It's pretty amazing how far Howard has fallen off. Dude was a complete mess physically even on his first day in houston, and he's only deteriorated from that point on.

Maury probably wants howard to start practicing his 3's and become a stretch 4 from here on out, lol.

Yea, Maury.

5ass
12-16-2015, 04:25 AM
Glad the Magic got what they could for him just as he was about to fall apart.

JJ_JKidd
12-16-2015, 04:33 AM
Delete thread. Nothing new here..

TylerSL
12-16-2015, 05:10 AM
I believe I would honestly puke if we traded Whiteside AND Winslow to Houston for Howard......... I'd rather risk losing Whiteside this summer than trading him for Howard. By now it should be beyond evident that Dwight is the wrong horse to back. We cannot trade Whiteside/Winslow (basically our future) for an aging Dwight Howard because he's not even as good as Hassan at this point. The injuries have taken their toll on him and he's not the imposing player he used to be, not even half of it. On top of that, he carries all sorts of off-court drama around because he's so immature. Aside from being jealous of Kobe AND James Harden because they were better than him, he has tried and successfully gotten his head coach fired before. If we made this move I would consider to completely stop watching basketball altogether. It's that bad of an idea, seriously.

Now if we could acquire Cousins for Whiteside/Winslow, that at least deserves a conversation........

TylerSL
12-16-2015, 05:23 AM
Miami CANNOT offer Whiteside the Max. He signed an original 2 year deal, and CBA rules site the Early Bird rule which means the Heat can ONLY offer him about half of a Full Max salary....or to get Whitesides full Bird rights, he would have to play one more season in Miami at basically the league minimum...and that is NOT going to happen. And it's also a fact that 8 million will not get it done with so many other teams having a ton of free agent money to spend. So Miami has to either trade him...which won't bring much cause whatever team trading for him cannot extend him...and he could walk out on them. Or the Heat can keep him all this season, and lose him for nothing.


But it is an absolute impossibility that Miami will keep him beyond this season.

We can only offer him the early bird right rule that is about half of what a max would be OR sign him using actual cap space. Depending on the moves we make and what contracts we free up will determine how much cap we can have next season. It is HIGHLY unlikely we will be able to offer him a max contract because we will have Bosh/Dragic on the books, Wade's hold/impending new deal, and guys like McRoberts, and Winslow making a couple million each. Needless to say, I'd rather take my chances with this than giving up Whiteside and probably Winslow too if the return is just Dwight Howard...

mike_noodles
12-16-2015, 09:04 AM
SMH. Who raised this guy? His mother must be embarrassed.

warfelg
12-16-2015, 09:09 AM
Why does that matter though? I'm no genius but I've seen many say Sheridan doesn't know what he's talking about with the cap situation. We owe 48 for next year and that's if we don't trade McRoberts. You sign Whiteside at his max of 22M which will have us at 70M. The limit is like 89 or 90 and Wade is a free agent. Why couldn't they just sign Wade to like a 4 year 15M a year deal that would put us at 85M?

You would have to either sign Wade first or renounce his rights. Here's the explanation:

39. Why do free agents continue to count against team salary?

It closes a loophole. Teams otherwise would be able to sign other teams' free agents using their cap room, and then turn their attention to their own free agents using the Bird exception. This rule restricts their ability to do that. It uses the player's current status (type of free agent, whether coming off a rookie contract, and previous salary) as a rough guideline to predict the amount the player is likely to receive in his next contract, and sets that amount aside in the form of a cap hold. But while it functions as a rough guideline, it's obviously not perfect -- for example, in 2005 Michael Redd's free agent amount was just $6 million, even though the Bucks intended to re-sign him for the maximum salary. By waiting to sign Redd last, the Bucks were able to take advantage of the difference by signing Bobby Simmons. Had they signed Redd first, they would not have had enough cap room to sign Simmons.

There will be a "hold" on the Heat cap for Wade's 2015-16 salary $20 mil. So to do that and offer Whiteside more money, they would have to sign Wade to a lesser deal first, then sign Whiteside. The other option would be to renounce the rights to Wade, sign Whiteside, and hopefully have enough cap left to bring in Wade at a salary he likes.

Everything you could want to know on the subject is here:
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q35

Htownballa1622
12-16-2015, 11:43 AM
NEWSFLASH!

EVERYONE in Houston is unhappy.

I'm sure he's not happy with his role especially as they play like crap. No defense. Terrible offense. Harden reverting back to a lazy defender. There's a lot wrong in Houston right now. They'll try to correct it however they see fit. If one thing I can tell you about the Rockets organization is that they don't sit on their hands. They aren't afraid of roster or shakeups (almost to a fault). Anyone is expendable.

BUT this doesn't mean he's going to get traded or leave. Where is he going to go? I find it funny that everyone takes these reports as gold like they don't come with the words "Rumor" or "Allegedly" attached to it.

SLY WILLIAMS
12-16-2015, 11:47 AM
Dwight has declined. We all do with age but I understand where he is coming from. He is a post player. Post players are dependent on other players getting them the ball. The guy is shooting around 59% but only gets 8 FGA a game. That is too little for a guy like Dwight.

Tony_Starks
12-16-2015, 11:48 AM
It's pretty amazing how far Howard has fallen off. Dude was a complete mess physically even on his first day in houston, and he's only deteriorated from that point on.

Maury probably wants howard to start practicing his 3's and become a stretch 4 from here on out, lol.

Yea, Maury.

Howard may actually end up on Maury by 2017.

Advanced stats.

Htownballa1622
12-16-2015, 11:52 AM
I've got to ask what is wrong with this guy. I mean he's been on, what 3 teams in 5 years now? Unhappy with all three? And at best he gives you offensively what DeAndre Jordan gives you?

He is the tip of the spear that is the me first douchbaggery.

Good job twisting things to fit your narrative.

He's also been on 3 teams in what? 12 years? And yeah, Deandre has definitely (at best ) averaged 18 ppg :rolleyes:

Good luck with dealing with those types of players in Philly that are exactly what you're trying to describe Dwight as.

kdspurman
12-16-2015, 11:58 AM
NEWSFLASH!

EVERYONE in Houston is unhappy.

I'm sure he's not happy with his role especially as they play like crap. No defense. Terrible offense. Harden reverting back to a lazy defender. There's a lot wrong in Houston right now. They'll try to correct it however they see fit. If one thing I can tell you about the Rockets organization is that they don't sit on their hands. They aren't afraid of roster or shakeups (almost to a fault). Anyone is expendable.

BUT this doesn't mean he's going to get traded or leave. Where is he going to go? I find it funny that everyone takes these reports as gold like they don't come with the words "Rumor" or "Allegedly" attached to it.

What changed from last year honestly? Locker room issues this year? I don't know if I believe it's the coaching, but that's just my opinion.

warfelg
12-16-2015, 12:00 PM
Good job twisting things to fit your narrative.

He's also been on 3 teams in what? 12 years? And yeah, Deandre has definitely (at best ) averaged 18 ppg :rolleyes:

Good luck with dealing with those types of players in Philly that are exactly what you're trying to describe Dwight as.

How did I twist things?

He's been on 3 teams in 3 years where his complaint is HE isn't getting what HE wants. All reports center around that. He wanted out of Orlando because he wasn't getting the ball when he wants it. He left LA because he didn't get the ball when he wants it. Now he wants out of Houston because, tell me if you've heard this before, he's not getting the ball when he wants it.

When in reality he's a limited offensive player, who made an early living off put backs, fast break dunks, and ally-oops. In other words: Exactly what you get offensively from DeAndre Jordan.

Htownballa1622
12-16-2015, 12:04 PM
What changed from last year honestly? Locker room issues this year? I don't know if I believe it's the coaching, but that's just my opinion.

Good question.

I think it's the answer everyone here has been looking for.

Honestly it's a culmination of many different things but to me. It starts and ends with James.

He's being lazy on defense and it's showing poor leadership so others feed off of that and play bad too. I don't think coaching is the main issue but it's not helping. Brewer getting minutes over Thornton is dumb but I understand they're trying to showcase him to trade.

Also, I meant to tell you. I was wrong about SAS. I'm not sure if anyone anticipated this level of defense. Duncan has been amazing defensively. I just wish Danny Green would shoot better to not slaughter my fantasy team haha.

Htownballa1622
12-16-2015, 12:09 PM
How did I twist things?

He's been on 3 teams in 3 years where his complaint is HE isn't getting what HE wants. All reports center around that. He wanted out of Orlando because he wasn't getting the ball when he wants it. He left LA because he didn't get the ball when he wants it. Now he wants out of Houston because, tell me if you've heard this before, he's not getting the ball when he wants it.

When in reality he's a limited offensive player, who made an early living off put backs, fast break dunks, and ally-oops. In other words: Exactly what you get offensively from DeAndre Jordan.

He left Orlando because that was a sinking ship. His time there was over.

He left L.A. because he saw that flawed roster and he didn't mesh with Kobe.

REPORTS are that he wants the ball more. RUMORS but is he wrong? He's averaging his fewest amount of points but he isn't getting looks. Time will tell if he leaves Houston but let's not act like these aren't REPORTS and SPECULATION.

Morey even said as much this morning on a radio interview that the reports were bs.

He is similar in how he scores to Deandre but you said "at best."

Deandre has never been as effective as Dwight's best. So, you're wrong. Again.

ewing
12-16-2015, 12:12 PM
When was there this serious competition to be top fiddler?

warfelg
12-16-2015, 12:16 PM
When was there this serious competition to be top fiddler?

There hasn't been. Dwight has always pictured himself as the offensive focal point. That's the common part of every report where he's been.

ewing
12-16-2015, 12:20 PM
There hasn't been. Dwight has always pictured himself as the offensive focal point. That's the common part of every report where he's been.

I'm talking about actual fiddlers?

warfelg
12-16-2015, 12:21 PM
I'm talking about actual fiddlers?

Johnny and the devil?

ewing
12-16-2015, 12:25 PM
Johnny and the devil?

Good one. He was the best that had ever been

kdspurman
12-16-2015, 12:29 PM
Good question.

I think it's the answer everyone here has been looking for.

Honestly it's a culmination of many different things but to me. It starts and ends with James.

He's being lazy on defense and it's showing poor leadership so others feed off of that and play bad too. I don't think coaching is the main issue but it's not helping. Brewer getting minutes over Thornton is dumb but I understand they're trying to showcase him to trade.

Also, I meant to tell you. I was wrong about SAS. I'm not sure if anyone anticipated this level of defense. Duncan has been amazing defensively. I just wish Danny Green would shoot better to not slaughter my fantasy team haha.

Yea.. Maybe the need to make some moves then coaching & roster. 2 coaching changes in a season is rare but who knows. It might be needed at this point.

But yea, I've noticed James reverting back. Definitely not leading by example and that can rub folks teammates the wrong way. Especially when the team is not successful. Hopefully they can get it going though. Ideally after Christmas :)

And yea, I thought their defense would take a hit too. I for sure didn't anticipate this, but it's been fun to watch. And you might be better off cutting him and picking up Patty Mills if you need 3 point shooting lol. He'll get it going eventually, but right now he's just cold as ice.

Tony_Starks
12-16-2015, 12:40 PM
He is 5th on the team in touches. Even being as limited as he is offensively, that is pretty outrageous.

The problem is when it comes to Bigs who've had at least 75 post ups he ranks 20th out of 22. He is not now, nor has he ever been a good post player. Never will be. In fact he's even a worse post player now that his health is in decline. Yet he wants it on the block and has been historically opposed to simply being a pick and roll guy.

At the end of the day I would say you've got to let him at least touch the rock more. Forget shooting, let the guy touch it to stay involved. Harden has no earthly business dancing around with the ball shooting 41%.

Now if he seriously expects it on the block all day like Patrick Ewing I'd tell him to kick rocks!

Htownballa1622
12-16-2015, 12:42 PM
Yea.. Maybe the need to make some moves then coaching & roster. 2 coaching changes in a season is rare but who knows. It might be needed at this point.

But yea, I've noticed James reverting back. Definitely not leading by example and that can rub folks teammates the wrong way. Especially when the team is not successful. Hopefully they can get it going though. Ideally after Christmas :)

And yea, I thought their defense would take a hit too. I for sure didn't anticipate this, but it's been fun to watch. And you might be better off cutting him and picking up Patty Mills if you need 3 point shooting lol. He'll get it going eventually, but right now he's just cold as ice.

Haha. I hear ya. I wouldn't be surprised if we made it a games on Christmas. They tend to play up or down to the level of their opponent. We will see.

Thanks for tip on Green. :cheers:

warfelg
12-16-2015, 12:53 PM
He is 5th on the team in touches. Even being as limited as he is offensively, that is pretty outrageous.

The problem is when it comes to Bigs who've had at least 75 post ups he ranks 20th out of 22. He is not now, nor has he ever been a good post player. Never will be. In fact he's even a worse post player now that his health is in decline. Yet he wants it on the block and has been historically opposed to simply being a pick and roll guy.

At the end of the day I would say you've got to let him at least touch the rock more. Forget shooting, let the guy touch it to stay involved. Harden has no earthly business dancing around with the ball shooting 41%.

Now if he seriously expects it on the block all day like Patrick Ewing I'd tell him to kick rocks!

Yup. This is what he wants. Despite being a poor post player he thinks an offense should work around him and playing in the post.

Chronz
12-16-2015, 01:13 PM
He is 5th on the team in touches. Even being as limited as he is offensively, that is pretty outrageous.

The problem is when it comes to Bigs who've had at least 75 post ups he ranks 20th out of 22. He is not now, nor has he ever been a good post player. Never will be. In fact he's even a worse post player now that his health is in decline. Yet he wants it on the block and has been historically opposed to simply being a pick and roll guy.

At the end of the day I would say you've got to let him at least touch the rock more. Forget shooting, let the guy touch it to stay involved. Harden has no earthly business dancing around with the ball shooting 41%.

Now if he seriously expects it on the block all day like Patrick Ewing I'd tell him to kick rocks!

Not true, he was a very effective post player in Orlando and in the playoffs with Houston hes usually upped his post play.

Stinkyoutsider
12-16-2015, 01:21 PM
If Howard still has in his mind that he can still play as well as he did when he was in Orlando, then he should be unhappy. He should be calling and demanding for the ball to the point that he makes the coaching staff tell him to stop asking. We all know Howard's offensive game is limited and has regressed imo from the time he was the focal point in Orlando but if I was him and I wanted glory, I would be bringing it up every day in practice and meetings.

Honestly, I think Howard gets frustrated at times but he has come to accept that the Rockets run their offense through Harden.

If I'm Howard, I'm in the gym this summer and developing a shooting touch and reestablishing the post moves I did have in the past so I can be a factor offensively out to around 13 feet. As much as Howard would root for Harden to be the guy offensively, Howard has to be thinking that he has enough talent to take over this team.

But, maybe not? Maybe Howard is happy with how things are? With him being primarily a defensive player now.

Tony_Starks
12-16-2015, 01:50 PM
He is 5th on the team in touches. Even being as limited as he is offensively, that is pretty outrageous.

The problem is when it comes to Bigs who've had at least 75 post ups he ranks 20th out of 22. He is not now, nor has he ever been a good post player. Never will be. In fact he's even a worse post player now that his health is in decline. Yet he wants it on the block and has been historically opposed to simply being a pick and roll guy.

At the end of the day I would say you've got to let him at least touch the rock more. Forget shooting, let the guy touch it to stay involved. Harden has no earthly business dancing around with the ball shooting 41%.

Now if he seriously expects it on the block all day like Patrick Ewing I'd tell him to kick rocks!

Not true, he was a very effective post player in Orlando and in the playoffs with Houston hes usually upped his post play.


I know it's time for the Christmas spirit but you have a very generous view of a "very effective" post player. The Howard I remember in Orlando was an athletic beast you couldn't keep off the glass.. coming out of the sky for lobs and put backs...along with the occasional running hook, jump hook, or face up move. Most of his points NEVER came from straight up back to the basket hoops.

The Howard I see today is virtually the same minus the athletic beast part.

Htownballa1622
12-16-2015, 02:17 PM
Via Calvin watkins (espn houston writer)
Rockets center Dwight Howard said he hasn't said anything regarding his unhappiness regarding the team's performance. The Rockets fell at Sacramento, 107-97, on Tuesday night.
"I haven't said nothing to nobody about anything," Howard said to reporters. "I've been positive, trying to turn this thing around anyway possible. People always going to make up lies or rumors to get off. But I haven't said nothing or anything to anybody. Thats never been a focus. (It's) to try to get these guys to play better, to make myself to play better."

Good job guys.

Slug3
12-16-2015, 02:26 PM
Not true, he was a very effective post player in Orlando and in the playoffs with Houston hes usually upped his post play.

Having known SVG comes from the tree of Pat Riley he pretty much runs a lot of Pats plays (or did). Howard was not a great post player. I am sure a lot of Orlando fans that watched him there can chime in, but they pretty much just swung the ball back and forth around the perimeter and have Howard look to get good position from going block to block. He was not great at making good moves on the block unless he had good position under the basket.

kdspurman
12-16-2015, 02:45 PM
Via Calvin watkins (espn houston writer)
Rockets center Dwight Howard said he hasn't said anything regarding his unhappiness regarding the team's performance. The Rockets fell at Sacramento, 107-97, on Tuesday night.
"I haven't said nothing to nobody about anything," Howard said to reporters. "I've been positive, trying to turn this thing around anyway possible. People always going to make up lies or rumors to get off. But I haven't said nothing or anything to anybody. Thats never been a focus. (It's) to try to get these guys to play better, to make myself to play better."

Good job guys.

He could be telling the truth..... But just to play devils advocate (:D) , I think he said something similar when he was in Orlando and the whole Stan Van Gundy incident was going down. It's tough to determine whether a guy is being honest, or whether the media is stirring things up and trying to determine what's real.

FlashBolt
12-16-2015, 03:06 PM
Howard is the biggest crybaby I've ever seen in the game. I can't believe this was a guy who could have been MVP quite some times back at Orlando, a 4x DPOY, and a legitimate top five player during his prime. How the hell did he turn into a pile of turd? He could have been the man at Lakers playing alongside Pau/Kobe/remove Nash and grab a very decent PG (which are in abundance right now), but he chose to play with Harden and now is frustrated that he isn't the main focus point at Houston? There is no way Houston is trading Harden unless you are offering: Davis, Westbrook, Curry, LeBron, or Durant. Even if they do give him the ball, what do you expect him to do? He has zero offensive pressure these days. Teams aren't even fouling him because he poses zero threat. Miami will be making a huge mistake trading Whiteside for Howard.. he's a headache.

Chronz
12-16-2015, 03:19 PM
I know it's time for the Christmas spirit but you have a very generous view of a "very effective" post player. The Howard I remember in Orlando was an athletic beast you couldn't keep off the glass.. coming out of the sky for lobs and put backs...along with the occasional running hook, jump hook, or face up move. Most of his points NEVER came from straight up back to the basket hoops.

The Howard I see today is virtually the same minus the athletic beast part.

Sounds like you didn't watch much of him then, nor did you pay attention to the stats. He was scoring more points out of the post than anyone else in the league and at a high clip during his peak days. His athleticism was sapped his final year in Orlando and he didn't have the time to adapt gradually the way most bigs decline. I swear I've corrected you on this before, if not you, then I've told enough Laker fans who kept ******** on him to make me forget which of you haters were which.

Chronz
12-16-2015, 03:27 PM
Having known SVG comes from the tree of Pat Riley he pretty much runs a lot of Pats plays (or did). Howard was not a great post player. I am sure a lot of Orlando fans that watched him there can chime in, but they pretty much just swung the ball back and forth around the perimeter and have Howard look to get good position from going block to block. He was not great at making good moves on the block unless he had good position under the basket.
Ummm, Riley used to run a TON of post plays for his bigs so Im not seeing what you're talking about, hell, Stan is allowing alot for Andre Drummond today (who ACTUALLY sucks at them)
As for Magic fans chiming in, they did, ask ManRam about him. We had this convo 4 years ago about how Dwight demanded the ball and was actually becoming an effective post player after working with Hakeem. Post play has gone extinct for reasons beyond its own effectiveness, its just more efficient to seek out 3's.

Going from block to block and establishing position is exactly why he was an effective post player, its prolly why he sustained back injuries tbh. Again, he was scoring more points out of the post than anyone else in the game at his peak, Ill try to rummage up the old synergy stats but its hogwash to say hes NEVER been good at it when as recently as his series vs Portland he was destroying Robin Lopez 1v1. He destroyed the Hawks in Orlando in terms of post effectiveness. You guys seriously want to reimagine his career and ignore his progression all because hes a shell of himself athletically? Why?

FlashBolt
12-16-2015, 03:29 PM
Sounds like you didn't watch much of him then, nor did you pay attention to the stats. He was scoring more points out of the post than anyone else in the league and at a high clip during his peak days. His athleticism was sapped his final year in Orlando and he didn't have the time to adapt gradually the way most bigs decline. I swear I've corrected you on this before, if not you, then I've told enough Laker fans who kept ******** on him to make me forget which of you haters were which.

You actually showed just how terrible of a player Howard is. His dominance was straight off athleticism and quite frankly, his game was based off that. So that brings to question, why didn't this guy focus on developing his offensive arsenal? He still can't hit FT's, he hasn't tried to work on an outside game to complement the three point shooting phenomenon, he has just a few moves which are below:

1) Baby hook -- which any center can do.
2) Ball fake with a dribble and then drive to the opposite direction.
3) One dribble and a spin.

So for ten+ seasons, he hasn't developed a single go-to-move that centers need to dominate. Shaq dominated out of sheer athleticism but he was on another level in terms of aggression. Dwight is a softy who doesn't have that extra anger in him to just pummel the opposing player.

He's a center who had everything it took physically, but mentally, he may be the weakest center I've seen in the game.

I'm probably going to get the "LeBron plays off athleticism as well." Completely disagree. He has worked on his game that doesn't require athleticism. His BBIQ is genuinely one of the highest in the game's history.

5ass
12-16-2015, 03:37 PM
Sounds like you didn't watch much of him then, nor did you pay attention to the stats. He was scoring more points out of the post than anyone else in the league and at a high clip during his peak days. His athleticism was sapped his final year in Orlando and he didn't have the time to adapt gradually the way most bigs decline. I swear I've corrected you on this before, if not you, then I've told enough Laker fans who kept ******** on him to make me forget which of you haters were which.

Yeah prime Dwight was a very effective post player. At times he was straight up unstoppable. That's why he got fouled so much. If you didn't have one or two big and strong centers on your team, you'd have a hard time stopping prime Dwight.

I remember I used to think he sometimes didn't get the ball as much as he should've. He'd dominate the post in the first half, and then in the second half, the team just ignores him. Dwight used to complain about that and I agreed with him. Hell, so did SVG. I think that was before Hedo's return.

5ass
12-16-2015, 03:38 PM
He was pretty good in the post, but he's no Andrew Nicholson :)

Tony_Starks
12-16-2015, 03:52 PM
I think people are confusing "effective" with actually having a post game. In his Orlando heyday he was extremely effective in the paint because he was beasting, but had a limited back to the basket arsenal. As Flash pointed out he has yet to develop a go to, same rudimentary 3 moves which are very predictable and not very consistent. If he scores 30 off those you tip your hat to him, and they probably lose the game because the rest of the teams rhythm has been thrown off from force feeding him the rock.

You know how Blake's game was basically to just dunk everything in sight and then gradually developed into being a more well rounded threat fundamentally? Howard has basically did the opposite of that....

Tony_Starks
12-16-2015, 04:02 PM
Sounds like you didn't watch much of him then, nor did you pay attention to the stats. He was scoring more points out of the post than anyone else in the league and at a high clip during his peak days. His athleticism was sapped his final year in Orlando and he didn't have the time to adapt gradually the way most bigs decline. I swear I've corrected you on this before, if not you, then I've told enough Laker fans who kept ******** on him to make me forget which of you haters were which.

You actually showed just how terrible of a player Howard is. His dominance was straight off athleticism and quite frankly, his game was based off that. So that brings to question, why didn't this guy focus on developing his offensive arsenal? He still can't hit FT's, he hasn't tried to work on an outside game to complement the three point shooting phenomenon, he has just a few moves which are below:

1) Baby hook -- which any center can do.
2) Ball fake with a dribble and then drive to the opposite direction.
3) One dribble and a spin.

So for ten+ seasons, he hasn't developed a single go-to-move that centers need to dominate. Shaq dominated out of sheer athleticism but he was on another level in terms of aggression. Dwight is a softy who doesn't have that extra anger in him to just pummel the opposing player.

He's a center who had everything it took physically, but mentally, he may be the weakest center I've seen in the game.

I'm probably going to get the "LeBron plays off athleticism as well." Completely disagree. He has worked on his game that doesn't require athleticism. His BBIQ is genuinely one of the highest in the game's history.

As dominant as Shaq was he still had a few fundamental go tos: his jump hook was reliable, his "black tornado" spin off a defender leaning on him, and a great series of up and under and pivot moves. Besides developing into a great passer out of the double team and could even start the break off a rebound.

Dunks aside Shaq was very fundamentally sound, which is what made him so dominant.

That's why he's so critical of Dwight, he has the physical attributes but refused to develop the game to compliment them.

5ass
12-16-2015, 04:06 PM
Ummm, Riley used to run a TON of post plays for his bigs so Im not seeing what you're talking about, hell, Stan is allowing alot for Andre Drummond today (who ACTUALLY sucks at them)
As for Magic fans chiming in, they did, ask ManRam about him. We had this convo 4 years ago about how Dwight demanded the ball and was actually becoming an effective post player after working with Hakeem. Post play has gone extinct for reasons beyond its own effectiveness, its just more efficient to seek out 3's.

Going from block to block and establishing position is exactly why he was an effective post player, its prolly why he sustained back injuries tbh. Again, he was scoring more points out of the post than anyone else in the game at his peak, Ill try to rummage up the old synergy stats but its hogwash to say hes NEVER been good at it when as recently as his series vs Portland he was destroying Robin Lopez 1v1. He destroyed the Hawks in Orlando in terms of post effectiveness. You guys seriously want to reimagine his career and ignore his progression all because hes a shell of himself athletically? Why?

Exactly. Give credit where credit is due.

SeoulBeatz
12-16-2015, 04:14 PM
As dominant as Shaq was he still had a few fundamental go tos: his jump hook was reliable, his "black tornado" spin off a defender leaning on him, and a great series of up and under and pivot moves. Besides developing into a great passer out of the double team and could even start the break off a rebound.

Dunks aside Shaq was very fundamentally sound, which is what made him so dominant.

That's why he's so critical of Dwight, he has the physical attributes but refused to develop the game to compliment them.

Yeah if you go back and watch some shaq highlights/game-film he was truly a freak of nature. No one that big should be THAT coordinated. He had incredible footwork and body control, pair that with his humungous frame and he was unstoppable.

Tony_Starks
12-16-2015, 04:29 PM
As dominant as Shaq was he still had a few fundamental go tos: his jump hook was reliable, his "black tornado" spin off a defender leaning on him, and a great series of up and under and pivot moves. Besides developing into a great passer out of the double team and could even start the break off a rebound.

Dunks aside Shaq was very fundamentally sound, which is what made him so dominant.

That's why he's so critical of Dwight, he has the physical attributes but refused to develop the game to compliment them.

Yeah if you go back and watch some shaq highlights/game-film he was truly a freak of nature. No one that big should be THAT coordinated. He had incredible footwork and body control, pair that with his humungous frame and he was unstoppable.

Man I remember his famous birthday game against the Clippers when they refused to accommodate his ticket request for his family. Amidst the carnage I remember him grabbing a board, bringing it up himself, then proceeding to throw Kobe a lob off the dribble for a sick reverse dunk.

Never seen anybody his size do things like that, crazy!

Htownballa1622
12-16-2015, 05:02 PM
He could be telling the truth..... But just to play devils advocate (:D) , I think he said something similar when he was in Orlando and the whole Stan Van Gundy incident was going down. It's tough to determine whether a guy is being honest, or whether the media is stirring things up and trying to determine what's real.

Oh most definitely. He is kind of wishy washy but I just think that ppl here are QUICK to jump down his throat once they see his name.

There are a few names out there(Lebron, Dwight) that if anything is said about them with the word "rumor" or "allegedly" ....ppl like to run with it like it's the truth.

That was my point. I get yours too.

FlashBolt
12-16-2015, 07:11 PM
Exactly. Give credit where credit is due.

Yeah, let's give a crybaby credit... He leaves Orlando where he was the man, gets traded to LAL and I can't blame him here but he clearly didn't like getting yelled at by Kobe since he's a softy, signs with the Rockets and after losing, says he's already a champion? Now, there are rumors about how he's unhappy about the situatuon he is at right now? How does someone like that get any credit these days? Sorry, but Howard had it all. Most dominating center we've seen since Shaq, a top ten defensive center ever, and was just hitting his peak. He hasn't progressed at all since his third season with the Magic.

Saddletramp
12-16-2015, 08:14 PM
Yeah, let's give a crybaby credit... He leaves Orlando where he was the man, gets traded to LAL and I can't blame him here but he clearly didn't like getting yelled at by Kobe since he's a softy, signs with the Rockets and after losing, says he's already a champion? Now, there are rumors about how he's unhappy about the situatuon he is at right now? How does someone like that get any credit these days? Sorry, but Howard had it all. Most dominating center we've seen since Shaq, a top ten defensive center ever, and was just hitting his peak. He hasn't progressed at all since his third season with the Magic.

So you're giving him credit? Sarcasm, contradictory statements and believing rumors all lumped in to one post. Welcome back from whatever reason you were gone; you've been firing on all cylinders today trying to get your awful cred back.


PS, You have!

WaDe03
12-16-2015, 09:55 PM
You would have to either sign Wade first or renounce his rights. Here's the explanation:


There will be a "hold" on the Heat cap for Wade's 2015-16 salary $20 mil. So to do that and offer Whiteside more money, they would have to sign Wade to a lesser deal first, then sign Whiteside. The other option would be to renounce the rights to Wade, sign Whiteside, and hopefully have enough cap left to bring in Wade at a salary he likes.

Everything you could want to know on the subject is here:
http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q35

Thanks!

Laker Legend42
12-16-2015, 10:44 PM
D12 needs to understand that he will more than likely never be the number one option on any team. The problem is he values himself and his game higher than everyone else. If there is a coach out there that can get him in to being the defensive superstar they will have a real player on their hands. With his jumping and rebounding ability getting points should be the least of his problems.

Chronz
12-17-2015, 05:28 AM
You actually showed just how terrible of a player Howard is.
Terrible? LOL, lets at least try to be objective here.


His dominance was straight off athleticism and quite frankly, his game was based off that.
Such a cliche, even the best footwork doesn't work without athletic ability. Dwights game was more athletically based, no question, but at 6"9 you kind of expect that. Even Hakeems moves looked predictable once his athleticism waned, Dwight isn't Dream, that doesn't erase the fact that he was one of the best post players in the game at his peak, and if not for injury, may have evolved differently.



So that brings to question, why didn't this guy focus on developing his offensive arsenal?
Actually it brings into question why you comment on things you dont pay attention to. He DID work on his arsenal, he learned actual go to moves that utilized his quickness/agility. Its not his fault his back gave out on him.


He still can't hit FT's, he hasn't tried to work on an outside game to complement the three point shooting phenomenon,
Newsflash, some of the best post players of all time never discovered consistency at the line, in the case of Dwight, he was actually improving in that area. 3pt shooting is irrelevant when discussing POST PLAY.


he has just a few moves which are below:

1) Baby hook -- which any center can do.
2) Ball fake with a dribble and then drive to the opposite direction.
3) One dribble and a spin.

Again, some of the best players of all time have said you dont need many moves, just a few counters, which he did learn. He improved his decision making when the doubles came, he stopped hesitating and went straight into an attack move. He was doing his part before the injuries mounted.


So for ten+ seasons, he hasn't developed a single go-to-move that centers need to dominate. Shaq dominated out of sheer athleticism but he was on another level in terms of aggression. Dwight is a softy who doesn't have that extra anger in him to just pummel the opposing player.


LOL, a softie? No player since Shaq was hacked the way he was. Lets just agree to disagree because we weren't watching the same player, Ill side with my eyes and the stats that back them over your unsubstantiated opinion. You expect him to be Shaq when hes not built that way? Even Shaq was worthless in the post once his athletic ability waned, not to the degree of Dwight but what else do you expect from a less impressive physical specimen?


He's a center who had everything it took physically, but mentally, he may be the weakest center I've seen in the game.

Thats nice, didn't prevent him from being a great post player at his peak.


I'm probably going to get the "LeBron plays off athleticism as well." Completely disagree. He has worked on his game that doesn't require athleticism. His BBIQ is genuinely one of the highest in the game's history.
You didn't get a single Bron mention so bad try with the preemptive argument.

Chronz
12-17-2015, 05:37 AM
I think people are confusing "effective" with actually having a post game. In his Orlando heyday he was extremely effective in the paint because he was beasting, but had a limited back to the basket arsenal. As Flash pointed out he has yet to develop a go to, same rudimentary 3 moves which are very predictable and not very consistent. If he scores 30 off those you tip your hat to him, and they probably lose the game because the rest of the teams rhythm has been thrown off from force feeding him the rock.

You know how Blake's game was basically to just dunk everything in sight and then gradually developed into being a more well rounded threat fundamentally? Howard has basically did the opposite of that....
Nobody is confusing anything, I dont care if you have 100 moves or 3, what matters are the results, the simple fact of the matter is that Dwight had one of the best post games, his "beasting" improved because he worked on his POST/B2B game. He suffered a career altering injury that diminished his learning curve.

As for the Blake mention, no I dont know what you're talking about. He improved his outlet shooting but if you think he was ever just a dunker then you weren't paying close enough attention. His footwork was bad but he was athletic enough and had a soft enough touch to make it work. Hes actually gone LESS to the post as hes aged, considering hes a small PF with no length, its prolly the best move, but if Blake were to all of sudden suffer a debilitating injury, I guarantee he wouldn't revolve his game around post play. Hes not built like Kareem to just keep skyhooking till hes 40 (btw, even Kareem became predictable and easy to stop). In fact, I'd argue Dwight made more progression with his post play than Blake has and thats because Dwight was beginning to learn how to best utilize his athletic superiority.


Hakeem never forgot how to perform the dream shake, he just lost the threat of the drive and his jumper declined with his legs. The Dwight we see today is a FAR cry from the specimen he used to be, its not his fault his back gave out. Despite that, as recently as the Portland series he was crushing it in the post. Post moves look alot better when you have the agility to perform them.

Tony_Starks
12-17-2015, 01:28 PM
Well regardless if you believe in the myth that his post game ever existed one thing is certain: the Orlando Dwight gone. Long gone.

That being said I still believe the Houston version of Dwight should be involved more. You can run the ball through him and at last make him a threat offensively.

I actually feel sorry for the dude at this point, reminds me of how D'Antoni would basically just ignore him the majority of the game and then on those rare occasions they decided to give him the ball expect him to produce.

He's getting the Kwame Brown treatment.

Chronz
12-17-2015, 02:13 PM
I think he's come to grips with the reality of his talent. He's all for taking days off when as recently as LA the dude was playing hurt without fear. And I see no myth, just facts. Watch his playoff games and pay attention to the numbers.

5ass
12-17-2015, 02:57 PM
Agreed with everything Chronz has said. Just before he got hurt he was starting to add a bank shot as well. No myth, just facts, Dwight was so effective teams used do double/triple team him and foul him very often.

Shawn2timer
12-17-2015, 03:19 PM
Dwight's a b*t*h. Always has been, still is

Tony_Starks
12-17-2015, 07:01 PM
Why is Harden not catching more flack for the debacle in Houston? The dude is chucking at 41% and has regressed on D...if that's even possible. He's younger, perfectly healthy, and just recently was pontificating about how he's the best in the game, he was really the MVP last year.....blah blah blah.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
12-17-2015, 07:47 PM
http://www.basketballinsiders.com/nba-am-the-problem-with-dwight-howard/

Nice write up about Howard and the cap if he opts out this summer. He could get 4/$120M. Yeesh.

warfelg
12-17-2015, 07:48 PM
Why is Harden not catching more flack for the debacle in Houston? The dude is chucking at 41% and has regressed on D...if that's even possible. He's younger, perfectly healthy, and just recently was pontificating about how he's the best in the game, he was really the MVP last year.....blah blah blah.

I think Houston let too much of what kept Harden in check walk away. Who's the guy there that will tell him no or set him straight?

Saddletramp
12-17-2015, 10:40 PM
I think Houston let too much of what kept Harden in check walk away. Who's the guy there that will tell him no or set him straight?

Who? McHale? This has been a problem all season. I honestly don't know why Harden looks so uninterested and regressing but it's really annoying.

Chronz
12-18-2015, 05:55 AM
Agreed with everything Chronz has said. Just before he got hurt he was starting to add a bank shot as well. No myth, just facts, Dwight was so effective teams used do double/triple team him and foul him very often.

No myths, just facts. Could you jock my verbiage any harder? I do remember the banker he was developing tho. Funny, I bet these guys would say Duncan himself lost that bank shot instead of his athletic ability. Some guys just dont know.

Ty22Mitchell
12-18-2015, 09:45 AM
Jesus Christ, Chronz just murdered like 8 posters in this thread. Lol.

Tony_Starks
12-18-2015, 01:29 PM
Why is Harden not catching more flack for the debacle in Houston? The dude is chucking at 41% and has regressed on D...if that's even possible. He's younger, perfectly healthy, and just recently was pontificating about how he's the best in the game, he was really the MVP last year.....blah blah blah.

I think Houston let too much of what kept Harden in check walk away. Who's the guy there that will tell him no or set him straight?

The problem is when you pay a guy franchise money like that you expect him to be the face of the franchise leader and he's just not built for it. He isn't, and Dwight for damn sure isn't.

Harden had 25 points last night shooting 7/24 and didn't play a lick of defense. Had he been playing anyone besides the farewell tour it would've been a huge L.

( Kobe was 9/16 btw ;)

MILLERHIGHLIFE
12-18-2015, 02:35 PM
Wizards is another team linked to Howard besides Celtics and Heat and Bulls. Article mentioned even if Wizards traded for Howard they still have another max slot for Durant. But article suggested Gortat and Nene for Howard. Doubt Morey settles for that. Lots of shady rumors sites this year. Kinda depressing. Most these bogus sites make Bleacher report look legit. lol

ewing
12-18-2015, 02:38 PM
Wizards is another team linked to Howard besides Celtics and Heat and Bulls. Article mentioned even if Wizards traded for Howard they still have another max slot for Durant. But article suggested Gortat and Nene for Howard. Doubt Morey settles for that. Lots of shady rumors sites this year. Kinda depressing. Most these bogus sites make Bleacher report look legit. lol

Howard would be a disaster in Wash. They would have two ball dominate players that can't shoot outside the paint

Tg11
12-25-2015, 04:26 PM
Dwight Howard can you imagine if he went to the Raptors? Could you imagine? With Toronto I think Howard could basically resurrect himself there as a perennial big man especially if he were to end up there but honestly realistically Howard will go to either the Heat, Bulls, Warriors, Cavs, Lakers, Thunder or Knicks

FriedTofuz
12-27-2015, 04:30 AM
Dwight seems to bring down every team that he goes too, maybe he's the problem.

Saddletramp
12-27-2015, 03:59 PM
Dwight seems to bring down every team that he goes too, maybe he's the problem.

So true. After taking the Magic to the Finals and helping this Rockets team get to the WCF, it's just him bringing these teams down. Without him, they would have won that championship for Orlando and without him they would have beaten the Warriors last year. To-ta-lly.

Oh, and that Lakers team was totally on him. A bunch of over the hill and injured guys were taking that team deep until Howard got his back wrecked. So of course, that's on him, too.

Your takes on basketball are always refreshingly spot on.

Scoots
12-27-2015, 04:39 PM
Howard unhappy has been the story about him for a decade.

FriedTofuz
12-28-2015, 03:35 AM
So true. After taking the Magic to the Finals and helping this Rockets team get to the WCF, it's just him bringing these teams down. Without him, they would have won that championship for Orlando and without him they would have beaten the Warriors last year. To-ta-lly.

Oh, and that Lakers team was totally on him. A bunch of over the hill and injured guys were taking that team deep until Howard got his back wrecked. So of course, that's on him, too.

Your takes on basketball are always refreshingly spot on.

The level of sarcasm is real Ahaha

Chrisclover
12-28-2015, 05:39 AM
This story has Howard eventually ending up in Miami because of supposedly being tired of playing "second fiddle" to Harden.

Kindof a hard to believe. A) that Miami would give up a promising young Whiteside for a Dwight on the downside of his career

B) that Howard still wants to be "the man" at this stage in his career.

I'm sure the losing is Houston has them all frustrated but idk......


http://www.sheridanhoops.com/2015/12/15/sheridan-dwight-howard-unhappy-in-houston-headed-to-miami/
Whiteside isn't staying because he would definitely ask for a new hefty contract beyond what the Heat are capable of offering. Trading him is not that bad. His current contract is so cheap so garbage contracts are needed .

Chrisclover
12-28-2015, 05:52 AM
IMO, Dwight would be a great piece to add to a championship club. I myself have a secret desire for Dwight to return to the Lakers (don't tell anyone), if they can pull a miracle and get KD (let's be honest, it's unlikely).

My problem with this report, if it is true, is at 30 years old a person should understand their strengths and weaknesses. Dwight isn't good enough, nor does it seem he has the temperament, to be THE GUY. IMO he isn't a cerebral player where he can reinvent himself. He is who he is at this point.
Who do you think Howard is now?
IMO, he is above average but far away from elite.

Gander13SM
12-28-2015, 07:50 AM
I miss Orlando Dwight. Guy was a monster.

chjh
12-29-2015, 02:27 AM
According to OP's URL Miami is going to lose Whiteside this offseason because he'll demand a max contract, which they won't be able to pay. Do you know if that is accurate or not?http://s.coop/1xpjb http://s.coop/1xpmd

rhino17
12-29-2015, 03:01 AM
Dwight has NEVER spent any time in his life even attempting to develop even a BASIC post game. Him demanding the ball on offense is laughable. Why should the rockets waste time on him in the post when he has spent no time on it himself? Every time he touches a ball in the post is one more play taken away from DMO in the post. He is not a #1 player, he is not even a #2 player. His goal right now should be to play like Deandre. He can play pick and roll and try to get back to an elite level defensively (which he absolutely is not anymore).

G_S_W
12-29-2015, 03:53 AM
DHo was broken down by the time he arrived in LA and his physical deterioration has only worsened since then. He's a shell of his former self, basically sleepwalking through the regular season in hopes of putting forth at least some semblance of his former all nba self for a handful of games in the postseason.

Unfortunately, he's now demoralized by hardon's ballhogging on top of his physical problems, and things have gotten far worse.

With the new cap coming, however, he'll get whatever he wants. If Tristan Thompson is worth $20 mil a year, DHo will get his $30 mil per.

Scoots
12-29-2015, 12:11 PM
Dwight has NEVER spent any time in his life even attempting to develop even a BASIC post game. Him demanding the ball on offense is laughable. Why should the rockets waste time on him in the post when he has spent no time on it himself? Every time he touches a ball in the post is one more play taken away from DMO in the post. He is not a #1 player, he is not even a #2 player. His goal right now should be to play like Deandre. He can play pick and roll and try to get back to an elite level defensively (which he absolutely is not anymore).

The thing is, DeAndre wants the ball in the post too. The promise of being featured more in the offense is what lured Jordan to sign with Dallas in the first place. All of the centers want to be Hakeem ... none of them are close. I can think of 2 centers with real old-style post games ... but there are probably 60 of them in the NBA who think they should be getting double digit post shot attempts every game.

beasted86
12-29-2015, 12:29 PM
According to OP's URL Miami is going to lose Whiteside this offseason because he'll demand a max contract, which they won't be able to pay. Do you know if that is accurate or not?http://s.coop/1xpjb http://s.coop/1xpmd

It's inaccurate. The HEAT has the cap space to sign Whiteside to his max ($22M) and give Wade a near max contract. They just wouldn't have money left over to do anything else, including simply resigning Deng or another starting caliber SF.

They will need to get Whiteside to sign for less than his max, along with Wade taking less than he did this summer if they want to actually add players instead of coming back with the same team sans Deng.

Scoots
12-29-2015, 01:42 PM
It's inaccurate. The HEAT has the cap space to sign Whiteside to his max ($22M) and give Wade a near max contract. They just wouldn't have money left over to do anything else, including simply resigning Deng or another starting caliber SF.

They will need to get Whiteside to sign for less than his max, along with Wade taking less than he did this summer if they want to actually add players instead of coming back with the same team sans Deng.

There is still the real possibility that Whiteside's offensive game and free throw shooting will limit his usefulness to the point that he's not worth paying what he will demand too.

beasted86
12-29-2015, 02:53 PM
There is still the real possibility that Whiteside's offensive game and free throw shooting will limit his usefulness to the point that he's not worth paying what he will demand too.

Well unfortunately foolish GMs have ruined the market.

Robin Lopez - 4y/54 = $13.5M per
Omer Asik - 5y/60 = $12M per
Tyson Chandler 4y/52 = $13M per
Tristan Thompson 5y/82 = $16.4M per
DeAndre Jordan 4y/87 = $21.7M per

So the choices are to either overpay him or not have a Center. He has a bigger impact than most of those players. Miami will be forced to pay upwards of $15M. How much upwards? Hopefully Riley can do some convincing and negotiating so the team isn't handcuffed.