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View Full Version : Why are the Clippers such trash defensively?



Chronz
12-11-2015, 04:23 PM
Doc oversaw some incredible defenses during his Boston days and this was suppose to be the year the players finally adapted to his system, then he goes and changes their defensive principles to start the year.

I keep hearing how JJ isn't a bad defender despite his stature, that CP3 is still among the better defensive PG's, DJ is suppose to be a DPOY level defender according to the voters (hes not but surely hes above average??), Blake is inconsistent but hes not the one holding him back (or is he). They've added some actual athletes on the perimeter this year, so whats the hold up?

ewing
12-11-2015, 04:47 PM
i made this thread about a year ago and i think you told me it was perimeter defense

5ass
12-11-2015, 05:06 PM
I saw a comparison of DJ vs Vucevic's defensive numbers a couple of days ago. I believe Vucevic had slightly better #s. Not saying they're on the same level, but DJ is close to an average defender IMO. I just don't think the Clippers players are that concerned about defense. I really think DJ and Griffin are more concerned about being superstars. You could see that in DJs initial decision to leave the Clippers this summer. He wanted to be the main star and a focus on offense in Dallas.

Chronz
12-11-2015, 05:10 PM
I have a few theories but I thought this would be the year the bigs dominated on that end and we added some decent athletes on the perimeter. Is it the lack of size outside DJ (Josh Smith is playing alot of Center), is it the coaching staffs inability to find the right rotation? Or which players are generally overrated on that end....

5ass
12-11-2015, 05:26 PM
I cannot answer these questions because I haven't watched the clippers more than twice this season. I would like to hear your theories though.

Chronz
12-11-2015, 05:34 PM
I meant to quote Ewing but I approve of your post as well, its true, DJ made most of his impact with his offense yet people think of him as a defender, its kind of funny. Honestly hes just a durable/efficient machine and thats why he made All-NBA but this year his motor isn't running the same.

Scoots
12-11-2015, 05:37 PM
Defense is about communication, hustle, and decision making more than athleticism.

The Clippers have guys who look like they are jumping assignments when they shouldn't and not staying home when they should. Their rotations are clumsy and it looks like the bigs and the wings are not on the same page on where the force should be sometimes.

They just look disjointed, which can make even good individual defenders look bad.

flea
12-11-2015, 05:49 PM
I've only seen a few Clips games this year, including part of last night's. I'd place the blame on the frontcourt defense, especially Blake/DJ, even though offense looks like the problem just strictly looking at team ratings.

You figured there'd be a dropoff from Barnes leaving (may not be a top flight wing defender anymore but he knew the system and kept himself in the plays he should) but statistically they're not a whole lot worse than last year's mediocre showing. Probably the difference from the years prior was bench+Barnes's athleticism and the 2 bigs not really improving. The collapse vs. the Harden-less Rockets was basically entirely on the bigs allowing dunk after dunk. Big man defense is more about IQ and instinct than "hustle" and no amount of Thibses or Auerbachs will turns weak defenders into strong ones.

I think the switch to a more conservative defense was good, even if the results end up being the same. I think they could even go more conservative and just give up on P&R defense altogether and run a zone like the Warriors do (even if they don't have the length or interior men to make it hum like the Warriors do). I actually think this could work because both Reddick and Paul play good defense with their arms and feet instead of hands, and understand post angles, and therefore aren't as big of a liability as you would think on bigger offensive players.

For a team like the Clippers the idea is not to let your defense lose you games, not rely on it winning them. Unfortunately they may be the 00's Suns all over again when it's said and done.

flea
12-11-2015, 05:53 PM
Also the lack of offense on the bench is still glaring. Don't see how they could even consider getting rid of Crawford since PP is done and everyone else is either bad or D league bad. I would run more set plays for Reddick and stagger his minutes with Paul so you always have an offensive guard on hand. The Pistons got away with Rip Hamilton as their primary offensive option for an entire postseason run (yes I realize it was the D that got them there) so there's no reason memorizing a series of set plays with reads couldn't keep their offense afloat for the 15 minutes Paul sits a night.

5ass
12-11-2015, 05:58 PM
Defense is about communication, hustle, and decision making more than athleticism.

The Clippers have guys who look like they are jumping assignments when they shouldn't and not staying home when they should. Their rotations are clumsy and it looks like the bigs and the wings are not on the same page on where the force should be sometimes.

They just look disjointed, which can make even good individual defenders look bad.

It really is. Just look at the Magic, they went from 25th in defensive rating last season, to 5th so far this season. Its essentially the same team. In fact, our best rim protector hasn't been playing at all (Dedmon).

shep33
12-11-2015, 06:24 PM
They need to hire Thibs... also KG is one of the greatest defensive players/organizers i've ever seen

MILLERHIGHLIFE
12-11-2015, 06:41 PM
I use to laugh when Jordan was rated highly back in the day and plenty on PSD said they take Jordan over Larry Sanders back in 2010. All Jordan does is block and throw down a flashy dunk once in a while but cant hit any free throws. Jordan been so over rated since he imitated Shaqs free throw form but still cant make any anyway. Clippers should of just let him walk to Mavs.

The Senator
12-12-2015, 08:27 PM
To be fair, Larry Sanders didn't exactly turn into an All NBA quality player.

Bostonjorge
12-12-2015, 08:47 PM
Clippers started the season strong and Jordan was playing at a high level. Then the warriors took their soul away in that first matchup.

MonroeFAN
12-13-2015, 03:01 AM
Because the refs can't carry them defensively?

<3

ewing
12-13-2015, 07:37 AM
maybe Doc just sucks

leprechaun5
12-13-2015, 08:48 AM
maybe Doc just sucks

He's definitely overrated. That D on Boston was all KG and Thibs. Doc always struggled with rotations.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
12-13-2015, 11:54 AM
To be fair, Larry Sanders didn't exactly turn into an All NBA quality player. 2010 Sanders was a beast. Second in league in block shots to Ibaka. After that season yeah he went down hill.

D-Leethal
12-13-2015, 01:39 PM
I meant to quote Ewing but I approve of your post as well, its true, DJ made most of his impact with his offense yet people think of him as a defender, its kind of funny. Honestly hes just a durable/efficient machine and thats why he made All-NBA but this year his motor isn't running the same.

DJ got paid, an unfortunate reality in the NBA is once you get paid, your motor takes a hit. A rare breed are those that bring the same intensity and effort year 1 of a max deal as they did the year prior to the max deal.

Gander13SM
12-13-2015, 01:46 PM
They don't have any high caliber defenders outside of CP3.

DJ is criminally overrated and none of their wings can defend aside from Redick but even then he's hit and miss.

Having Josh Smith play center doesn't help. He's not Draymond or whatever.

They're just bad defenders as individuals. No system can cover up that much ineptitude.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
12-13-2015, 02:32 PM
They don't have any high caliber defenders outside of CP3.

DJ is criminally overrated and none of their wings can defend aside from Redick but even then he's hit and miss.

Having Josh Smith play center doesn't help. He's not Draymond or whatever.

They're just bad defenders as individuals. No system can cover up that much ineptitude.

Moute use to be high caliber defender. But them days are gone.

Gander13SM
12-13-2015, 03:07 PM
Moute use to be high caliber defender. But them days are gone.

Completely forgot about him. Good shout.

FriedTofuz
12-13-2015, 04:07 PM
Doc oversaw some incredible defenses during his Boston days and this was suppose to be the year the players finally adapted to his system, then he goes and changes their defensive principles to start the year.

I keep hearing how JJ isn't a bad defender despite his stature, that CP3 is still among the better defensive PG's, DJ is suppose to be a DPOY level defender according to the voters (hes not but surely hes above average??), Blake is inconsistent but hes not the one holding him back (or is he). They've added some actual athletes on the perimeter this year, so whats the hold up?

I stopped reading after this. Doc is the problem. He needs to go.

Chronz
12-14-2015, 04:46 PM
Also the lack of offense on the bench is still glaring. Don't see how they could even consider getting rid of Crawford since PP is done and everyone else is either bad or D league bad. I would run more set plays for Reddick and stagger his minutes with Paul so you always have an offensive guard on hand. The Pistons got away with Rip Hamilton as their primary offensive option for an entire postseason run (yes I realize it was the D that got them there) so there's no reason memorizing a series of set plays with reads couldn't keep their offense afloat for the 15 minutes Paul sits a night.

I wonder what the bench would look like without Crawford, is his volume scoring really as valuable as we think given his horrendous efficiency. Before this year I would argue it is, but this is a declining Jamal. I honestly think the offense would be serviceable if we just decided to stick with only 2 of JC, Austin and Lance on the floor, but all 3 of them together does nothing for us. Im conflicted with Jamal, for whatever reason, he cant confine himself to just shooting when open, hes wasting about 4 possessions a game with his brickfest at this rate. Lance should be given free reign, allowing JC / Wesley Johnson to spot up.

Hes trying this hockey rotation thing where the subs play together but hes staggering it more so that either DJ or Blake can be with them. Ive noticed hes trying to spend more time of JJ with his son, I guess to make it easier for him to run a structured set but its not working. He really doesn't understand the nuances of setting up someone coming off a curl. CP3 makes it look so easy, like a cheap assist, but there really is an art to his misdirection.

Chronz
12-14-2015, 04:51 PM
Moute use to be high caliber defender. But them days are gone.

I disagree, hes been our best defender and since inserting him into the starting lineup, we've had one of the best defenses in the league (top5-7 IIRC). Small sample size I know, but hes been a boon. Hes a good part time starter but Wesley should be getting the bulk of the minutes alongside the starters, to close games. If we could combine Moute and Wesley, we'd have a legit starter.

Chronz
12-14-2015, 04:56 PM
They don't have any high caliber defenders outside of CP3.

DJ is criminally overrated and none of their wings can defend aside from Redick but even then he's hit and miss.

Having Josh Smith play center doesn't help. He's not Draymond or whatever.

They're just bad defenders as individuals. No system can cover up that much ineptitude.

Smith playing Center is a big factor IMO. Hes a quality defender at the 4, but at the 5, with guys like Pierce and Jamal flanking him/playing matador D, hes overmatched

Its why hes slowly starting to play Josh more alongside DJ but then Blake has to play more C. Its a tricky problem to solve given the lack of legit Centers

Chronz
12-14-2015, 05:00 PM
DJ got paid, an unfortunate reality in the NBA is once you get paid, your motor takes a hit. A rare breed are those that bring the same intensity and effort year 1 of a max deal as they did the year prior to the max deal.

Tell me about it, hes setting picks and not rolling, dropping passes because he doesn't think its coming to him. There are nights when he brings it but too often he looks disinterested. I wonder how much of that has to do with coming to grips that he will never get the bigger role he wanted in Dallas while playing here. He looks (and I could be wrong here) more active when hes a part of the 2nd unit (with Josh Smith and Lance) and I wonder if he looks as that group as his time to shine. Ill look up the numbers on that one after a few more games.

KB24PG16
12-14-2015, 05:08 PM
doc is being exposed as a coach and as a gm

Chronz
12-14-2015, 11:17 PM
Because the refs can't carry them defensively?

<3

Id settle for them helping us on either side of the ball

<3