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View Full Version : Is it time to trade Cousins?



JasonJohnHorn
12-10-2015, 11:37 AM
If it was 1984, or even 1995 for that matter, I think DeMarcus Cousins would be one of the most sought after players in the league. He has a great skill set. Strong post game, great rebounder, solid playmaker, and he's great at drawing fouls. He reminds me in many ways of Charles Barkley.


The problem is, it's 2015, not 1995 or 85.

DMC is currently shooting .445 inside the arc, and is taking over 4 shots a game from down town at a rate of .313. Granted, he's shooting a little lower than he was last year, but even at 49%, his FG% is simply not efficient enough to be a primary scorer on a contender.

Last year we saw that a team that is relatively average, the Hawks (no offense intended), we able to pull out 60 wins! This was due, in large part, to the fact that they were letting Korver and Carrol take a combined 10+ shots a game, with Korker hitting about 50% and Carroll hitting about 40%. Even on the low end, that gave these two role players about average of 13.5 points for ever 10 shots.

You put that against DMC, who hits, at best, 5/10, and all you got for those efforts is 10 points.

The Warriors demonstrate how huge the gap is as they actually have a team that is far above average. DMC is shooting inside the arc at about 45%; the Warriors have 6 players whose 3-point percentage is above that. This means that even on a good night, if DMC is hitting 5/10 shots, the Kings will be outpaced, in some instances, by as much as 5 points for every 10 shots.


This is an over simplification, yes. You need a post presence to make sure the defence can't cheat. It also opens things up for guys on the wing, but even with an elite player like Tim Duncan, one of the greatest coaches to ever draw a play realized that leaning too heavily on post play would ruin the team's chances of winning. Duncan could have easily been averaging 25+ points a game well into his 30's, but Pop knew that relying on too many shots in the paint was going to reduce his team's potential. So he shifted away from that and started to instead used the presence of Tim Duncan as a way to spread defences out and create more open 3's.

Surely, we can concede that Duncan is (or at least in his prime was) a better scoring option than DMC. Given that the Spurs have seen so much success when they move away from running the offense through Duncan, other post players must concede that their primary function is to be good enough to spread the defence and open things up for other players, and not be the primary scorer themselves.

Yes, you need solid post players. The Hawks, for instance, wouldn't have been able to get open shots for Korver and Carroll without the post play of Horford and Milsap. But if a team is going to contend in today's NBA, they can't have a guy shooting well under .500 inside the arc taking the lion's share of the team's shots.


DMC, though, seems to think the offence should run through him, and as long as he believes that, and as long as he's demanding getting that, the Kings will not contend. They will struggle to even be playoff team.

DMC's stock is still pretty high, and he's locked in for a couple of years after this season. I think it's time to move on. The Kings will not get equal value back, but even if they manage to make a trade where they get a guy like Bogut back along with somebody like Barnes of Klay, or even a guy like Horford and Korver (just hypothetical scenarios, not an actual suggestion), they would have better offensive options than what they currently have with DMC.


Running 25-post plays a game is simply not a winning game-plan in today's NBA. I think it's time for the Kings to seriously look into moving DMC, unless they can convince him that he should be taking fewer shots and they start running plays for guys who can shoot the three ball. That means Cassipi and McLemore taking more 3's, and DMC taking far fewer shots.

Thoughts?

nycericanguy
12-10-2015, 12:33 PM
most overrated player in the league

MonroeFAN
12-10-2015, 12:40 PM
I'm surprised he takes and makes 3's. I would take 30+ % from downtown if it makes the defense honest. But it's not what I would call a good possession.

Something has got to give though, he's not getting it done. basically don't know the answer.

dhopisthename
12-10-2015, 01:12 PM
cousins needs to go to a different team and either learn how to be a good teammate or something. he is just massive waste of talent at this point

MonroeFAN
12-10-2015, 01:22 PM
Yeah the organization as a whole just appears to lack structure. That can be turned around quickly tho

FriedTofuz
12-10-2015, 02:06 PM
Demar Derozan + Jonas Valancuinas + 2 1st round picks.

Scoots
12-10-2015, 02:51 PM
He's a stud no doubt, but dysfunctional teams make for dysfunctional players.

I guarantee the Warriors and Spurs would LOVE to have him.

5ass
12-10-2015, 03:05 PM
I don't think the offense is the problem. It's their defense IMO. I really like cousins, but ilve been saying the kings needed to blow it up before the offseason. He's a really good player, but the Kings just don't have the capability to build a contender around him. I really wanted the Magic to trade Vucevic and Hezonja for him, but the problem is I don't want him as a leader of a young team. He might mess up the Magic's chemistry.

BHF
12-10-2015, 03:17 PM
Demar Derozan + Jonas Valancuinas + 2 1st round picks.

Too much and a big risk, maybe DD and two first round picks or Val and two first round picks, but not both of them and the first round picks.

nycericanguy
12-10-2015, 03:41 PM
Demar Derozan + Jonas Valancuinas + 2 1st round picks.

why? whats so great about DMC?

I mean maybe a change of scenery does him well, but he's a risk and not exactly the kind of guy you want to build around.

flea
12-10-2015, 03:43 PM
Lol at comparing him to Barkley. You could maybe say he's a very poor man's Barkley, but the comparison is even worse than Andre Iguodala to Lebron James.

Dude shoots 46% from 2 for his career, 63% at the rim, and 35% in the post area. That's his problem offensively - he's not good enough in the post. It has nothing to do with whether post games can win in today's game and everything to do with him not being good enough in that part of the floor.

Sure he's a good jumpshooter, and probably balances out to an above average offensive center, but his defense is not good and he's about as low IQ as it comes when you're talking about taking the right shots at the right times (from what I've seen). Sick of hearing how this loser is a star. Does he have promise even though this is already his age 25 season? Sure, but for now he's Antoine Walker.

nycericanguy
12-10-2015, 04:07 PM
Lol at comparing him to Barkley. You could maybe say he's a very poor man's Barkley, but the comparison is even worse than Andre Iguodala to Lebron James.

Dude shoots 46% from 2 for his career, 63% at the rim, and 35% in the post area. That's his problem offensively - he's not good enough in the post. It has nothing to do with whether post games can win in today's game and everything to do with him not being good enough in that part of the floor.

Sure he's a good jumpshooter, and probably balances out to an above average offensive center, but his defense is not good and he's about as low IQ as it comes when you're talking about taking the right shots at the right times (from what I've seen). Sick of hearing how this loser is a star. Does he have promise even though this is already his age 25 season? Sure, but for now he's Antoine Walker.

that's a great comp... i can't believe the amount of love DMC gets on here as a "top 8 player"... How about leading your team to 30 wins for once first? He's a 7 foot JR smith.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
12-10-2015, 04:20 PM
Cousins is no Barkley. Cousins probably a more athletic Derrick Coleman.

ewing
12-10-2015, 04:24 PM
Cousins is no Barkley. Cousins probably a more athletic Derrick Coleman.

Cousins is no derrick coleman

Scoots
12-10-2015, 06:27 PM
Cousins is no derrick coleman

Ouch :)

True Sports Fan
12-10-2015, 06:38 PM
His role IS to shoot more from outside.

Just a couple games ago he was shooting well over 40% from three.

Insane how many clueless people are commentating without an idea of his role and what he's asked to do.

True Sports Fan
12-10-2015, 06:40 PM
Demar Derozan + Jonas Valancuinas + 2 1st round picks.

Stick to 2k fam

ewing
12-10-2015, 06:45 PM
Ouch :)

the only hole in DC game was that he stopped caring. he was better.

MonroeFAN
12-10-2015, 06:53 PM
His role IS to shoot more from outside.

Just a couple games ago he was shooting well over 40% from three.

Insane how many clueless people are commentating without an idea of his role and what he's asked to do.

You're 8-15 and have basically never been a plus ball club with him on your roster (outside of the run with Malone I think?) I would rather be clueless than in denial.

His role is irrelevant knowing the above information.

JasonJohnHorn
12-10-2015, 07:35 PM
His role IS to shoot more from outside.

Just a couple games ago he was shooting well over 40% from three.

Insane how many clueless people are commentating without an idea of his role and what he's asked to do.

A couple of games ago? Really? WOW!!! And a couple of games before that it was under .300.


The last game it was 1/3. The game before that it was 0/3.

He is LITERALLY shooting 15% in the last TWO games.

"A couple of games ago he shot 40%".

Right, and a couple of games ago Terrance Ross shot 66% from the floor. Don't mean he's going to hold it up all year.


Over 20 games, he's shooting 30% and ain't getting much better. Maybe he does, but the bottom line is he has to shoot 40% from there in today's NBA if you want to keep up with the better teams in the league.

basketballkitty
12-10-2015, 08:16 PM
More like it's time to keep Cousins and Rondo...and trade Karl!!

5ass
12-10-2015, 09:48 PM
More like it's time to keep Cousins and Rondo...and trade Karl!!

Fire Karl and trade them all.

da ThRONe
12-11-2015, 12:16 AM
I'd wait this is the best team Cousins has had. Let them gel some before making a decision. Efficiency is great, but Cousins has a ton of skills and can put a ton of pressure on a defense.

kobe4thewinbang
12-11-2015, 04:43 AM
I think his value is as high as ever. Kings are scrappy this year and losing lots of close games. He has shown a touch from deep and beast play inside. E.g. like Horford. I wouldn't be surprised if someone offers a lot for him. Kings probably won't contend despite being a better team now.

Shammyguy3
12-11-2015, 12:03 PM
i would love for the Bulls to trade Mirotic/Snell/cap fillers for him

ewing
12-11-2015, 12:05 PM
More like it's time to keep Cousins and Rondo...and trade Karl!!

maybe they can do a some kind of speed coaching type thing until these guys find someone they click with

Stinkyoutsider
12-11-2015, 12:45 PM
I agree with some of the comments here about Cousins. I think his attitude and overall mentality are really getting in the way of him becoming a true star player. I actually like to say that Cousins right now is somewhat of a poor man's Zach Randolph even though Randolph produces a little more than Cousins in the low post. Neither guy is a great athlete or defender and they both need the ball in their hands to be special.

With the Kings not being a big club like the Lakers, Knicks, or Clippers, it's also hard to find veteran players who would compliment his game (and deal with his attitude swings).

No, I don't think it's time to get rid of Cousins but if the Kings can pull of what the Twolves have done and get 2 top quality future NBA caliber stars in Wiggins and Towns (and both can commit to the club long term), then I think the Kings have to think about this. I'm sure the Twolves felt the same way about Kevin Love but they had no choice but to move since Love was leaving for nothing.

tp13baby
12-11-2015, 01:26 PM
To Denver for Faried Jokic and a first.

Wrigheyes4MVP
12-11-2015, 01:30 PM
The Kings are 8-8 with Cousins. They are 1-7 without Cousins. He had a few miserable games recently, but other than that he's been awesome for the most part and has carried his team on his back. The problem is he has missed too many games. If he were healthy all year they'd probaly be around .500 and right in the thick of the race for a playoff spot in the West. Rondo has played well enough to make them a .500ish team. He's been better than a lot of people expected.

Wrigheyes4MVP
12-11-2015, 01:32 PM
I agree with some of the comments here about Cousins. I think his attitude and overall mentality are really getting in the way of him becoming a true star player. I actually like to say that Cousins right now is somewhat of a poor man's Zach Randolph even though Randolph produces a little more than Cousins in the low post. Neither guy is a great athlete or defender and they both need the ball in their hands to be special.

With the Kings not being a big club like the Lakers, Knicks, or Clippers, it's also hard to find veteran players who would compliment his game (and deal with his attitude swings).

No, I don't think it's time to get rid of Cousins but if the Kings can pull of what the Twolves have done and get 2 top quality future NBA caliber stars in Wiggins and Towns (and both can commit to the club long term), then I think the Kings have to think about this. I'm sure the Twolves felt the same way about Kevin Love but they had no choice but to move since Love was leaving for nothing.

Yeah, I don't know if the Kings will win with Cousins, but the time to trade him is not now. The time to trade him is at the end of his contract when there is no time left to turn things around in Sacramento. They will never get anything near equal value for him in return. Just gonna have to ride it out for now.

Wrigheyes4MVP
12-11-2015, 01:35 PM
You're 8-15 and have basically never been a plus ball club with him on your roster (outside of the run with Malone I think?) I would rather be clueless than in denial.

His role is irrelevant knowing the above information.

8-8 with Cousins, 1-7 without Cousins

5ass
12-11-2015, 03:20 PM
i would love for the Bulls to trade Mirotic/Snell/cap fillers for him

Bulls can't get him without giving up Butler. That package is not even close.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
12-11-2015, 03:20 PM
i would love for the Bulls to trade Mirotic/Snell/cap fillers for him

Divac laughs and hangs up the phone.

kobe4thewinbang
12-11-2015, 05:31 PM
Bulls can't get him without giving up Butler. That package is not even close.Plus I'm pretty sure Bulls are keeping Mirotic for the forseeable future.

5ass
12-11-2015, 05:37 PM
Plus I'm pretty sure Bulls are keeping Mirotic for the forseeable future.

Why? Mirotic is nothing special. He's almost 25 now, and on a real contender, he'd be a 20 mpg bench player.