PDA

View Full Version : Adam Silver reportedly played a significant role in the 76ers hiring Jerry Colangelo.



spreadeagle
12-08-2015, 11:06 PM
Adam Silver reportedly played a significant role in the 76ers hiring Jerry Colangelo.

The NBA commissioner wasn’t just altruistically promoting the good of the game and spirit of competition.

He was appeasing his bosses.

Brian Windhorst of ESPN:

Since the summer of 2014, NBA owners have been lobbying the league’s front office to step in with regard to the direction of the Philadelphia 76ers, sources told ESPN.com on Monday night. It was that effort that helped lead to the hiring of Jerry Colangelo to a senior position earlier Monday, the sources said.

Owners routinely complained about the economic drag the 76ers were inflicting on the league as the revenues of one of the largest-market teams — a franchise expected to contribute more robustly to league revenue-sharing — sagged. For many teams, games featuring the starless and woeful 76ers as the visiting team have been the lowest-attended of the season, sources said. http://nba.nbcsports.com/2015/12/08/report-nba-owners-lobbied-adam-silver-to-do-something-about-76ers/

Scoots
12-08-2015, 11:17 PM
So now they HAVE to win the lottery right?

warfelg
12-08-2015, 11:46 PM
So now they HAVE to win the lottery right?

I hate to put the conspiracy thoughts out there but quid pro quo?

In reality, there's been a ton of this questioning going on:
If the other owners forced this partnership wouldn't of there been some leak of this happening? But there wasn't. So the thought out there was other owners were telling Harris to get a basketball person in there, Hinkie called Silver asking for help, Silver mentioned Colangelo, got them in contact with each other, and Harris brought him in.

canzano55
12-08-2015, 11:59 PM
Lol you know you're a friggen terrible organization when opposing franchises are saying you suck so bad that you're costing them dollars.

Philly will eventually be good someday but I will make it my mission in life to remind their fans of this pathetic fiasco for as long as I live.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
12-09-2015, 12:07 AM
something had to be done with that horrible organisation

More-Than-Most
12-09-2015, 12:15 AM
Lol you know you're a friggen terrible organization when opposing franchises are saying you suck so bad that you're costing them dollars.

Philly will eventually be good someday but I will make it my mission in life to remind their fans of this pathetic fiasco for as long as I live.

The same thing other organzations have done for so very many years... Warriors/cavs and on down the list... Again the sixers have been tanking for 3 seasons where they have never been the worst team in basketball and never got the number 1 pick... The lakers will be going on their 3rd year next year where they will be just as bad... So remind as often as you like because this is no different then several other teams... Except 2 of our draft picks in 2 years just have been bad luck with Embiid injuries and saric not being able to get out of his contract

More-Than-Most
12-09-2015, 12:17 AM
something had to be done with that horrible organisation

Byron scott... Benching 2 of your better players just to further the tank while allowing Kobe to shoot 40 times a game... Do not throw stones at other organizations right now please

ewing
12-09-2015, 12:32 AM
at least when my franchise was so laughable that the NBA stepped in made us hire an OG the fan base had already turned on Zeke and Jim Dolan.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
12-09-2015, 12:41 AM
Byron scott... Benching 2 of your better players just to further the tank while allowing Kobe to shoot 40 times a game... Do not throw stones at other organizations right now please

:laugh:

What philly has done the last 3 years is sickening :puke:

This should have never been allowed in the first place, but great to see that league's office is stepping in to clear this mess of a situation

Scoots
12-09-2015, 01:23 AM
Byron scott... Benching 2 of your better players just to further the tank while allowing Kobe to shoot 40 times a game... Do not throw stones at other organizations right now please

Yes, but the Lakers still sell tickets and merch. Now that Kobe has announced their sales have actually gone up.

slaker619
12-09-2015, 01:38 AM
I'm fed up with the 76ers and the disrespect their doing to there fans & city

Westbrook36
12-09-2015, 02:19 AM
I'm fed up with the 76ers and the disrespect their doing to there fans & city

This is why I look at it as a 76ers fan

The trade where we sent Nikola Vucevic, our protected future first rounder, Mo Harkless, and Andre Iguodala for Andrew Bynum is part of the reason why I'm mostly on board with the process we've been going on. We've had some bad luck with draft position for the stockpile of centers (Missing out on Wiggins/Parker, then DLo Russell).

The Noel/Dario Saric trade was complete magic from Hinkie, he traded Jrue Holiday for a strong defensive big with fairly good defensive upside and a european player who has played well overseas (FIBA European Young Player of the Year X2). The problem being that Saric hasn't been able to come over to the US yet, although next year he can. Not only did we swing Jrue for that, but in the process obtained our protected future first rounder back from the Magic.

After losing out on Wiggins (Who I wanted terribly bad) and Parker (who I would have taken over Embiid initially) we draft Joel Embiid. Embiid has all the talent and athletic ability in the world, some of his moves at Kansas resemble Hakeem...Just the touch and feel of his offensive game looked potentially game changing. Through the roof potential as far as the centers of today are concerned, but the downside/risk of the injury...

Now after two surgeries we are unsure of what type of product we see out of Embiid. The reports seem hopeful with the bone graft, his youth, and some other factors on the table. This is a wait and see approach at this point, he has more value to this franchise on the team then via trade. Big Z of the Cavs had a similar injury (3 surgeries), big 7'3 center who has been speaking with Embiid about his situation. That injury is tricky and he's grown 2 inches, something to consider about his setback.


Joel Embiid (foot) was spotted getting up some set shots at practice on Friday.
He was still wearing the boot and wasn't moving around, but this can still be viewed as progress. To be clear, he is still fully expected to miss the entire 2015-16 season. In other news, the 76ers measured Embiid on Friday and officially listed him as 7'2", meaning he has grown two inches since being drafted out of Kansas.

-Rotoworld


Joel Embiid did not re-break the navicular bone in his right foot, according to GM Sam Hinkie.
The initial reports out of Philadelphia were that Embiid had experienced "less healing than anticipated," but a later report indicated that Embiid had indeed re-broken his navicular bone. According to Hinkie, who describes himself as a "nightmare in the doctor's office" due to the amount of questions he asks, the doctors told him Embiid would have been in "a shocking amount of pain" if he did re-break the bone in his foot, which was not the case. Either way, Embiid is expected to miss the entire 2015-16 season, so there's no reason to draft him in any league.

-rotoworld


Then we have Okafor, BPA after receiving the third pick again. Insurance incase Embiid is never able to hit the court, has a high offensive ceiling which is nice to see. Depending on his work ethic he'll either become a good defensive player or really lag on that end. Unsure if Noel and Okafor can work together, but we need to add other positions to find out.

I could see some people being upset that we haven't signed veteran players to fill the roster and all. Then I look at the like Lou Williams on the lakers, I see why they would sign him, but it's only clogging the minutes of Clarkson/Randell with Kobe still around.

This year has become a wasted year with Embiid injury and Saric not being able to come over until 2016-2017. With another high selection, potentially Lakers pick, MIA/OKC picks, and a whole lot flexibility towards the future it's hard not to like what we see after years of mediocrity.

More-Than-Most
12-09-2015, 03:54 AM
This is why I look at it as a 76ers fan

The trade where we sent Nikola Vucevic, our protected future first rounder, Mo Harkless, and Andre Iguodala for Andrew Bynum is part of the reason why I'm mostly on board with the process we've been going on. We've had some bad luck with draft position for the stockpile of centers (Missing out on Wiggins/Parker, then DLo Russell).

The Noel/Dario Saric trade was complete magic from Hinkie, he traded Jrue Holiday for a strong defensive big with fairly good defensive upside and a european player who has played well overseas (FIBA European Young Player of the Year X2). The problem being that Saric hasn't been able to come over to the US yet, although next year he can. Not only did we swing Jrue for that, but in the process obtained our protected future first rounder back from the Magic.

After losing out on Wiggins (Who I wanted terribly bad) and Parker (who I would have taken over Embiid initially) we draft Joel Embiid. Embiid has all the talent and athletic ability in the world, some of his moves at Kansas resemble Hakeem...Just the touch and feel of his offensive game looked potentially game changing. Through the roof potential as far as the centers of today are concerned, but the downside/risk of the injury...

Now after two surgeries we are unsure of what type of product we see out of Embiid. The reports seem hopeful with the bone graft, his youth, and some other factors on the table. This is a wait and see approach at this point, he has more value to this franchise on the team then via trade. Big Z of the Cavs had a similar injury (3 surgeries), big 7'3 center who has been speaking with Embiid about his situation. That injury is tricky and he's grown 2 inches, something to consider about his setback.



-Rotoworld



-rotoworld


Then we have Okafor, BPA after receiving the third pick again. Insurance incase Embiid is never able to hit the court, has a high offensive ceiling which is nice to see. Depending on his work ethic he'll either become a good defensive player or really lag on that end. Unsure if Noel and Okafor can work together, but we need to add other positions to find out.

I could see some people being upset that we haven't signed veteran players to fill the roster and all. Then I look at the like Lou Williams on the lakers, I see why they would sign him, but it's only clogging the minutes of Clarkson/Randell with Kobe still around.

This year has become a wasted year with Embiid injury and Saric not being able to come over until 2016-2017. With another high selection, potentially Lakers pick, MIA/OKC picks, and a whole lot flexibility towards the future it's hard not to like what we see after years of mediocrity.

you just wasted your time man... There is no room in this area for logic when it comes to the 76ers and people that spew the hate just look at tanking instead of actually doing their homework on the entire situation like the Bynum trade and Embiid injuries and saric not being able to come over and missing out on Wiggins/Russ/Wall.

McAllen Tx
12-09-2015, 05:22 AM
you just wasted your time man... There is no room in this area for logic when it comes to the 76ers and people that spew the hate just look at tanking instead of actually doing their homework on the entire situation like the Bynum trade and Embiid injuries and saric not being able to come over and missing out on Wiggins/Russ/Wall.

What people have a problem with is for how long that Philly has been tanking. This is their 4th year. You get a 3 year tank period then live with the results. Yes Philly has had some bad luck but oh well aint nobody trying to hear their cries.

They screwed up their tanking period and tryed to keep tanking thinking the other owners werent gonna do anything about it. The other owners forced Colangelo on them to clean up their mess. Thats embarrassing.

sixer04fan
12-09-2015, 06:40 AM
What people have a problem with is for how long that Philly has been tanking. This is their 4th year. You get a 3 year tank period then live with the results. Yes Philly has had some bad luck but oh well aint nobody trying to hear their cries.

They screwed up their tanking period and tryed to keep tanking thinking the other owners werent gonna do anything about it. The other owners forced Colangelo on them to clean up their mess. Thats embarrassing.

This is the 3rd year. Hinkie arrived here prior to the 2013 draft. He then made the Jrue Holiday trade for Nerlens Noel at the draft and that was the first domino of the tank. So according to your own logic on this timeframe, you shouldn't have a problem with it yet lol

PhillyFaninLA
12-09-2015, 07:32 AM
I'm fed up with the 76ers and the disrespect their doing to there fans & city

As a Sixers fan I don't feel they are doing that...they are trying to build something, and that required a complete tear down first, now its time to see what they will build.

PhillyFaninLA
12-09-2015, 07:35 AM
This is the 3rd year. Hinkie arrived here prior to the 2013 draft. He then made the Jrue Holiday trade for Nerlens Noel at the draft and that was the first domino of the tank. So according to your own logic on this timeframe, you shouldn't have a problem with it yet lol


Yeah, hence MTM's comment about people not doing homework

2-ONE-5
12-09-2015, 08:40 AM
something had to be done with that horrible organisation

something has to be done with your horrible spelling

McAllen Tx
12-09-2015, 09:03 AM
This is the 3rd year. Hinkie arrived here prior to the 2013 draft. He then made the Jrue Holiday trade for Nerlens Noel at the draft and that was the first domino of the tank. So according to your own logic on this timeframe, you shouldn't have a problem with it yet lol

I admit I didnt do my homework. Philly just hasnt even tried to hide it the last 2 years and this one it seems alot longer then a little over 2 years.

Anyways I said 3 year tank period but it could be 2. We'll find out soon enough with this Colangelo hiring. If you guys make ANY moves that hurt the tank we will know you over-stayed your welcome in tank nation. If you guys stay course then he just came in to help steer the ship cause Hinkie was gonna sink you guys. He did great acquiring assets but he didnt get insurance to protect them assets.

That whole Okafor thing really put a dark cloud over the whole organization. Would of been non-news if it was an isolated incident, a young kid getting drunk and into a fight, but it was like 4 things in like a month span. Even one where apparently he had a gun pointed at him. And he's the face of your franchise, doesnt look good for the whole organization.

But like I said, we'll find out the reason Colangelo was forced on you guys soon enough.

2-ONE-5
12-09-2015, 09:58 AM
The Okafor stuff is already forgotten about i feel like. you cant go into a full rebuild and expect to see drastic changes in two years, it doenst happen overnight. Hinkie has been open from the start and said this would take patience bcuz thats how player development works. No one has anything to say when we play a string of competitive games that we prob should have won but everytime there is a blowout everyone comes from the woodwork like its some big deal when in reality its not and it happens to every team (except GS). JC coming in suggests that we will become more serious in FA and/or pursing a bigger trade next year which fits the imaginary time line when you look at the assets that Hinkie has collected.

warfelg
12-09-2015, 10:09 AM
I think two things about this hire that people aren't addressing which the NBA owners were getting tired of:

1) Fractured relationships with agents. Someone had to repair that. Between the 4 year contracts, the rotation of players, and the buying out vets, I think agents were tired of dealing with Hinkie.

2) Lack of transparency. Brett Brown literally had to do all the talking for the organization, and the only times Hinkie was ever available to the press was post trade deadline and post draft. Those were the only times you get things from Hinkie. I think that other owners were tired of this vail of secrecy around the franchise.

I think, even a token vet here or there sticking around, and a little more openness from the FO, and more people go to games and get excited about the team. Then the team is making more money. Then there's less of a hit to the revenue sharing.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
12-09-2015, 10:58 AM
Another Jerry thread? What's the point? Move it to 76ers thread. Bad enough we have a couple Warriors threads about when the streak ends. What next a Markieff trade thread for each team he's rumored to? NBA main board is fallen apart.

Scoots
12-09-2015, 11:41 AM
I wonder if the agents were annoyed with the Sixers being a pressure valve where teams always had that Sixers option to dump bad contracts they didn't want and that being available takes some leverage away from agents?

I see this as a positive for the team and the fans. Nothing is going to change this year, but with a lot of picks this year the extra knowledge and talent on hand should only help the team next year and the fans have been saying the tanking is over already this year so The Process has reached the point where team building can start.

-Kobe24-TJ19-
12-09-2015, 11:46 AM
something has to be done with your horrible spelling

not my 1st language

But when do you guys expect to make the playoffs? East is getting stronger and stronger every year. There are only two very bad teams (76ers, Nets)

Everyone else is fighting for a playoff spot. All those teams are relatively young too.

I cant see Philly making the playoffs before 2017.

warfelg
12-09-2015, 11:51 AM
I wonder if the agents were annoyed with the Sixers being a pressure valve where teams always had that Sixers option to dump bad contracts they didn't want and that being available takes some leverage away from agents?

I see this as a positive for the team and the fans. Nothing is going to change this year, but with a lot of picks this year the extra knowledge and talent on hand should only help the team next year and the fans have been saying the tanking is over already this year so The Process has reached the point where team building can start.

If the pressure from other owners was because of revenue sharing, then I think there was definitely some pressure from agents.

I think that there were some agents hoping their just sub max players could garner interest from us, and with our massive amounts of cap space, we could push them to a max level deal. Add in the number of 4 year, non-guaranteed, cheap deals on top of that. Agents despised Hinkie. And just shoveling more crap on the pile: How many players did we buy out at a lower rate costing agents millions in fees?

warfelg
12-09-2015, 11:57 AM
not my 1st language

But when do you guys expect to make the playoffs? East is getting stronger and stronger every year. There are only two very bad teams (76ers, Nets)

Everyone else is fighting for a playoff spot. All those teams are relatively young too.

I cant see Philly making the playoffs before 2017.

2017 is about when most of us expected it anyways. You can go back in our forum and check it out. Most of us plotted out and thought that when we traded Jrue it would go:
2013/14 - Top 3 pick (check)
2014/15 - Top 5 pick (check)
But here's where we kinda took a wrong turn. We thought 2015/16 offseason we would be in a place to add a FA or 2, build on what we have, be a late lotto team. 2016/17 be pressing for a playoff team.

But that didn't happen. This year we kinda fell off the rails. And we aren't too sure what to think because we feel kinda behind where we should be at this point.

beasted86
12-09-2015, 04:22 PM
It's good to see the NBA is aware of the situation, but I'm not sure much can change.

76ers aren't the first team to lose miserably (basically on purpose), but they are the first one to do it in this format: No known vets, a bunch of new D League call ups each season, sagging below the cap for multiple seasons, and trading the players you just drafted.

That's what makes this different and that much more dull of a product.

76ers are too deep into the approach to turn back, so I'm not sure what Colangelo can do to liven the state of the franchise. They've been branded a loser around the NBA. When scrub middling players like Jared Dudley take to the radio to say he doesn't think Hinkie knows what he's doing, what real chance do they have of signing anyone in free agency? Zero, unless it's an insane overpay. You can't even trade picks for 4+ year veterans because as soon as they are a free agent they will leave unrestricted.

Hinkie, Colangelo and anyone else running this show has no choice but to continue building through the draft or trading picks for younger players who will be restricted.

warfelg
12-09-2015, 04:33 PM
It's good to see the NBA is aware of the situation, but I'm not sure much can change.

76ers aren't the first team to lose miserably (basically on purpose), but they are the first one to do it in this format: No known vets, a bunch of new D League call ups each season, sagging below the cap for multiple seasons, and trading the players you just drafted.

That's what makes this different and that much more dull of a product.

Well to dispell some of those: lots of the DLeague callups have been 10 day contracts. And Robert Covington was a D League call up...
We actually haven't been below the floor....technically.
We only did it twice: Once was MCW, and we clearly won that trade. The other was KJ, who we signed to an odd contract and didn't want to overpay for.


76ers are too deep into the approach to turn back, so I'm not sure what Colangelo can do to liven the state of the franchise. They've been branded a loser around the NBA. When scrub middling players like Jared Dudley take to the radio to say he doesn't think Hinkie knows what he's doing, what real chance do they have of signing anyone in free agency? Zero, unless it's an insane overpay. You can't even trade picks for 4+ year veterans because as soon as they are a free agent they will leave unrestricted.

Hinkie, Colangelo and anyone else running this show has no choice but to continue building through the draft or trading picks for younger players who will be restricted.

Actually we aren't stuck. People said that the C's were stuck at one point and needed to trade PP. But then they too their assets and turned them into Ray Allen and KG, and FA's suddenly came through.

I think that's what's going to end up happening for us. We'll use some of these assets, and maybe not and Allen of KG level player (That they were at the time), but wee till make a move that brings in some vet that interests players. Colangelo has great relationships with players and agents, he'll get the needle moving.

I think what Colangelo was brought in for, and what Owners want to see, and Silver for that matter, is this first domino of Assets to players to fall. Once that happens, things will start to turn around.

JEDean89
12-09-2015, 07:28 PM
hinkie forgot the most important element of tanking. Good drafting. It's not just the #1 pick, the cavs got 3 in 4 years, those first 2 barely moved the needle for them. The Pelicans got Davis, who's amazing, but now they are middling and will lose him. The Wolves look okay, but like, pleh. The truth is that tanking is a 6-10 year plan no matter how you slice it. Only OKC has gone from full tank to contender in like 5 years. They got close, real close, but they are an outlier. Other teams got lucky in the draft (Lakers w/ Kobe, Spurs w/ Duncan), but they only one with big time FA's or other stars. Hinkie hasn't drafted well. Okafor, Noel, Embiid is the opposite of what a tank should look like 3 years in. For the love of god you can't just draft 3 C's, thinking 2 can play together, and that you'll get good value for the 3rd. Noel will not get them a young guard or wing of equal value because those guys aren't for sale. They also aren't hitting with their later draft picks. Some look okay on paper, but most are just putting up empty stats. A real talent evaluator is needed to get those talents. Okafor was good, but KP is a transcendant talent like they were looking for. They passed on him, like teams passed on Kobe, like the Blazers passed on Durant, Paul George, Kawhi, Butler, Curry, Thompson, Chris Paul, and many other top players. Because the draft is a crapshoot. Joe Dumars drafted Drummond, Monroe and... Darko. Even the Spurs miss on draft picks.

Sixers just need to draft a freaking PG and Wing, and stop this mess.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
12-09-2015, 07:57 PM
hinkie forgot the most important element of tanking. Good drafting. It's not just the #1 pick, the cavs got 3 in 4 years, those first 2 barely moved the needle for them. The Pelicans got Davis, who's amazing, but now they are middling and will lose him. The Wolves look okay, but like, pleh. The truth is that tanking is a 6-10 year plan no matter how you slice it. Only OKC has gone from full tank to contender in like 5 years. They got close, real close, but they are an outlier. Other teams got lucky in the draft (Lakers w/ Kobe, Spurs w/ Duncan), but they only one with big time FA's or other stars. Hinkie hasn't drafted well. Okafor, Noel, Embiid is the opposite of what a tank should look like 3 years in. For the love of god you can't just draft 3 C's, thinking 2 can play together, and that you'll get good value for the 3rd. Noel will not get them a young guard or wing of equal value because those guys aren't for sale. They also aren't hitting with their later draft picks. Some look okay on paper, but most are just putting up empty stats. A real talent evaluator is needed to get those talents. Okafor was good, but KP is a transcendant talent like they were looking for. They passed on him, like teams passed on Kobe, like the Blazers passed on Durant, Paul George, Kawhi, Butler, Curry, Thompson, Chris Paul, and many other top players. Because the draft is a crapshoot. Joe Dumars drafted Drummond, Monroe and... Darko. Even the Spurs miss on draft picks.

Sixers just need to draft a freaking PG and Wing, and stop this mess.

I don't mind the 76ers drafting. It's a hell of a lot better then the Cavs when they were gift wrapped lottery picks left and right. Cavs botched Bennett and Thompson picks. Wiggins is good but traded for win now move of Love. Which I still think was a stupid move to keep LeBron happy. Could of went cheap with Wiggins on rookie scale deal and went after free agents. Now they got multiple guys like on max deals. Well hopefully LeBron is happy with the Cavs roster cause it wont change much unless teams are gullible to trade for them bad contracts.

warfelg
12-09-2015, 08:04 PM
I don't mind the 76ers drafting. It's a hell of a lot better then the Cavs when they were gift wrapped lottery picks left and right. Cavs botched Bennett and Thompson picks. Wiggins is good but traded for win now move of Love. Which I still think was a stupid move to keep LeBron happy. Could of went cheap with Wiggins on rookie scale deal and went after free agents. Now they got multiple guys like on max deals. Well hopefully LeBron is happy with the Cavs roster cause it wont change much unless teams are gullible to trade for them bad contracts.

I mean, as much as it's a couple of players at same position, we took 3 BPA. And all three of those BPA picks were regarded at one point or another the best player in that draft.

ewing
12-09-2015, 09:09 PM
I mean, as much as it's a couple of players at same position, we took 3 BPA. And all three of those BPA picks were regarded at one point or another the best player in that draft.

you aren't going to take guys that you don't consider the BPA. Fact is after watching guys play i don't think Noel or Oka were the best players available and the other guy hasn't played. Of course there is reasoning behind way they made the picks they did but so far they aren't really paying off.

Raps18-19 Champ
12-09-2015, 09:10 PM
Collusion.

More-Than-Most
12-09-2015, 10:40 PM
What people have a problem with is for how long that Philly has been tanking. This is their 4th year. You get a 3 year tank period then live with the results. Yes Philly has had some bad luck but oh well aint nobody trying to hear their cries.

They screwed up their tanking period and tryed to keep tanking thinking the other owners werent gonna do anything about it. The other owners forced Colangelo on them to clean up their mess. Thats embarrassing.

Exhibit A on not doing his Home work... This is the 3rd year... and in those 3 years again we have never been the worst team in the league or gotten the top overall pick.

JAZZNC
12-09-2015, 11:52 PM
Exhibit A on not doing his Home work... This is the 3rd year... and in those 3 years again we have never been the worst team in the league or gotten the top overall pick.

But over those three years combines you have the worst record so over the course of 3 years you have been the worst team in the NBA so yes you are trying to be horrible and have succeeded. It just hasn't worked because you guys haven't drafted well and just simply haven't tried. It is really a joke.

Alayla
12-10-2015, 11:18 AM
But over those three years combines you have the worst record so over the course of 3 years you have been the worst team in the NBA so yes you are trying to be horrible and have succeeded. It just hasn't worked because you guys haven't drafted well and just simply haven't tried. It is really a joke.

Im really starting to get annoyed with how common this comment is becoming.
Who do you take over Noel at 6 in 2013?
Over MCW at 11? Giannis Antetokounmpo mabye? is he worth more than the lakers pick we got for MCW?

Who under Joel Embiid would you have taken in 2014 at 3 even knowing Embiid is injured? even in retrospect the only one i might trade Embiid for right now would be Aaron Gordon who has looked nice. But certainly not nice enough for any sane person to pass on a potential superstar in the draft.
As a Bonus btw Nick Stauskas who was picked 8 was basically tacted on to the end of a trade for free for us.

in 2014 at 10 people talk about trading Payton for Saric at nauseum mostly with the excuse that Saric has not played a moment in the NBA yet but not being aware that it was expected he wouldn't until next season anyway and everything hes said and done so far has supported that expectation plus people ignore our first from the Bynum Deal back from that trade so its not until that pick is used that we see the fruit of that trade and have the basis to judge it. Ps. there is not a single person below #12 id trade Saric for.

Who do you pick over KJ Mcdaniels at 32 in 2014? yes we ended up forced to trade him over a werid contract situation but it was an excellent selection.

As for 2015 i will concede that in hindsight Porzingis is doing better than Okafor but hindsight is 20-20 and its not like Okafor is any less of a player than he was projected to be so far he was seen as a impact player day one who will get you a rough 20-10 with no defense. He has more or less met those expectations so regardless of what was below him you got exactly what you intended to get with the pick so i don't see the problem (this coming from someone who is not high on Okafor).

This isnt even covering less popular 2nd round hits such as Grant who are starting to figure it out on the court
They may not be instant production on the court right now and it may be a bit of a cluster**** atm but saying we have not drafted well is provably wrong even in hindsight all of our picks to this point make perfect sense.

McAllen Tx
12-10-2015, 11:41 AM
Exhibit A on not doing his Home work... This is the 3rd year... and in those 3 years again we have never been the worst team in the league or gotten the top overall pick.

I already conceded the fact that I didnt do my homework, are you gonna call my parents?

But like Jazz stated, over the last 2+ years Philly has the worst record overall. Philly doesnt even try to hide the fact that they're trying to lose. Even cats cover up their shyte.

sixer04fan
12-10-2015, 12:05 PM
VC, just own it man. Yeah, we suck! Lol. Let em hate. We know what's good.

Let them spend their time talking **** on another city's basketball team. Just stewing in their own negativity. It's not gonna change anything so they're just wasting their energy. If the Sixers tanking pisses anyone off, which it clearly does, then the joke's actually on them for allowing themselves to get worked up over it.

ewing
12-10-2015, 12:43 PM
Im really starting to get annoyed with how common this comment is becoming.
Who do you take over Noel at 6 in 2013?
Over MCW at 11? Giannis Antetokounmpo mabye? is he worth more than the lakers pick we got for MCW?

Who under Joel Embiid would you have taken in 2014 at 3 even knowing Embiid is injured? even in retrospect the only one i might trade Embiid for right now would be Aaron Gordon who has looked nice. But certainly not nice enough for any sane person to pass on a potential superstar in the draft.
As a Bonus btw Nick Stauskas who was picked 8 was basically tacted on to the end of a trade for free for us.

in 2014 at 10 people talk about trading Payton for Saric at nauseum mostly with the excuse that Saric has not played a moment in the NBA yet but not being aware that it was expected he wouldn't until next season anyway and everything hes said and done so far has supported that expectation plus people ignore our first from the Bynum Deal back from that trade so its not until that pick is used that we see the fruit of that trade and have the basis to judge it. Ps. there is not a single person below #12 id trade Saric for.

Who do you pick over KJ Mcdaniels at 32 in 2014? yes we ended up forced to trade him over a werid contract situation but it was an excellent selection.

As for 2015 i will concede that in hindsight Porzingis is doing better than Okafor but hindsight is 20-20 and its not like Okafor is any less of a player than he was projected to be so far he was seen as a impact player day one who will get you a rough 20-10 with no defense. He has more or less met those expectations so regardless of what was below him you got exactly what you intended to get with the pick so i don't see the problem (this coming from someone who is not high on Okafor).

This isnt even covering less popular 2nd round hits such as Grant who are starting to figure it out on the court
They may not be instant production on the court right now and it may be a bit of a cluster**** atm but saying we have not drafted well is provably wrong even in hindsight all of our picks to this point make perfect sense.



You have one center who doesn't play at all, one who only plays defense, and one who only plays offense. No offense but so far Philly has little to show for all there loses.

Gibby23
12-10-2015, 01:13 PM
The same thing other organzations have done for so very many years... Warriors/cavs and on down the list... Again the sixers have been tanking for 3 seasons where they have never been the worst team in basketball and never got the number 1 pick... The lakers will be going on their 3rd year next year where they will be just as bad... So remind as often as you like because this is no different then several other teams... Except 2 of our draft picks in 2 years just have been bad luck with Embiid injuries and saric not being able to get out of his contract

People still go to Lakers games, they are near sell outs, like 99%. People don't go to Sixers games it is like 73%. That is a problem if one of the biggest markets can't sell tickets. Notice it was for revenue sharing purposes and not a W/L thing.

2-ONE-5
12-10-2015, 01:30 PM
how is it our fault we dont have a legend on a retirement tour?

Raidaz4Life
12-10-2015, 01:33 PM
how is it our fault we dont have a legend on a retirement tour?

I'm sure you guys could get AI on the phone at anytime

Gibby23
12-10-2015, 01:35 PM
how is it our fault we dont have a legend on a retirement tour?

Even the last 2 years with Kobe hurt and a garbage team the lakers have been at 98% while the sixers are last or 2nd to last at 68%

Hawkeye15
12-10-2015, 02:11 PM
This is why I look at it as a 76ers fan

The trade where we sent Nikola Vucevic, our protected future first rounder, Mo Harkless, and Andre Iguodala for Andrew Bynum is part of the reason why I'm mostly on board with the process we've been going on. We've had some bad luck with draft position for the stockpile of centers (Missing out on Wiggins/Parker, then DLo Russell).

The Noel/Dario Saric trade was complete magic from Hinkie, he traded Jrue Holiday for a strong defensive big with fairly good defensive upside and a european player who has played well overseas (FIBA European Young Player of the Year X2). The problem being that Saric hasn't been able to come over to the US yet, although next year he can. Not only did we swing Jrue for that, but in the process obtained our protected future first rounder back from the Magic.

After losing out on Wiggins (Who I wanted terribly bad) and Parker (who I would have taken over Embiid initially) we draft Joel Embiid. Embiid has all the talent and athletic ability in the world, some of his moves at Kansas resemble Hakeem...Just the touch and feel of his offensive game looked potentially game changing. Through the roof potential as far as the centers of today are concerned, but the downside/risk of the injury...

Now after two surgeries we are unsure of what type of product we see out of Embiid. The reports seem hopeful with the bone graft, his youth, and some other factors on the table. This is a wait and see approach at this point, he has more value to this franchise on the team then via trade. Big Z of the Cavs had a similar injury (3 surgeries), big 7'3 center who has been speaking with Embiid about his situation. That injury is tricky and he's grown 2 inches, something to consider about his setback.



-Rotoworld



-rotoworld


Then we have Okafor, BPA after receiving the third pick again. Insurance incase Embiid is never able to hit the court, has a high offensive ceiling which is nice to see. Depending on his work ethic he'll either become a good defensive player or really lag on that end. Unsure if Noel and Okafor can work together, but we need to add other positions to find out.

I could see some people being upset that we haven't signed veteran players to fill the roster and all. Then I look at the like Lou Williams on the lakers, I see why they would sign him, but it's only clogging the minutes of Clarkson/Randell with Kobe still around.

This year has become a wasted year with Embiid injury and Saric not being able to come over until 2016-2017. With another high selection, potentially Lakers pick, MIA/OKC picks, and a whole lot flexibility towards the future it's hard not to like what we see after years of mediocrity.

I have always gotten the plan. The problem is, the Sixers just haven't been able to score that franchise changing player in the last few drafts (Okafor, jury is still out, I think he will be an excellent player). Here we are again, with Ben Simmons at the top of the board. Will the Sixers finally get their guy?

Honestly, the only thing that made me shake my head this whole process, is when they took back to back players that were hurt and would miss the upcoming season. That is straight up admitting a ploy to lose, lose, lose. But I also can't blame Hinkie. Many would have done the same if their plan was to bottom out and grab as many young assets as they could.

Hell, I don't even think the owners care about the actual tanking. They are just pissed that a routinely large profit team isn't kicking into the pie anymore.

Hawkeye15
12-10-2015, 02:13 PM
Im really starting to get annoyed with how common this comment is becoming.
Who do you take over Noel at 6 in 2013?
Over MCW at 11? Giannis Antetokounmpo mabye? is he worth more than the lakers pick we got for MCW?

Who under Joel Embiid would you have taken in 2014 at 3 even knowing Embiid is injured? even in retrospect the only one i might trade Embiid for right now would be Aaron Gordon who has looked nice. But certainly not nice enough for any sane person to pass on a potential superstar in the draft.
As a Bonus btw Nick Stauskas who was picked 8 was basically tacted on to the end of a trade for free for us.

in 2014 at 10 people talk about trading Payton for Saric at nauseum mostly with the excuse that Saric has not played a moment in the NBA yet but not being aware that it was expected he wouldn't until next season anyway and everything hes said and done so far has supported that expectation plus people ignore our first from the Bynum Deal back from that trade so its not until that pick is used that we see the fruit of that trade and have the basis to judge it. Ps. there is not a single person below #12 id trade Saric for.

Who do you pick over KJ Mcdaniels at 32 in 2014? yes we ended up forced to trade him over a werid contract situation but it was an excellent selection.

As for 2015 i will concede that in hindsight Porzingis is doing better than Okafor but hindsight is 20-20 and its not like Okafor is any less of a player than he was projected to be so far he was seen as a impact player day one who will get you a rough 20-10 with no defense. He has more or less met those expectations so regardless of what was below him you got exactly what you intended to get with the pick so i don't see the problem (this coming from someone who is not high on Okafor).

This isnt even covering less popular 2nd round hits such as Grant who are starting to figure it out on the court
They may not be instant production on the court right now and it may be a bit of a cluster**** atm but saying we have not drafted well is provably wrong even in hindsight all of our picks to this point make perfect sense.

agreed. You were given the Wolves shaft, meaning, since 1989, prior to this last year (Towns), every single time we had a high lottery pick, we would end up at the spot where the talent dropped big time.

warfelg
12-10-2015, 02:16 PM
Even the last 2 years with Kobe hurt and a garbage team the lakers have been at 98% while the sixers are last or 2nd to last at 68%

This article is a little older, but we aren't anywhere close to last. Timberwolves, Pistons, Hawks, Wizards, Raptors, Kings, Pels, Bucks, Jazz, Suns, Magic, Bobcats were all worse draws than us last year.

http://regressing.deadspin.com/which-nba-teams-are-the-best-and-worst-road-draws-1502074286

Even this year we are 19 out of 30 in away team draw. Bulls, Blazers, Jazz, Suns, Heat, Magic, Pistons, Kings, Celtics, Clippers, Bucks have all been a worse average draw.

http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance/_/sort/awayAvg

Gibby23
12-10-2015, 02:29 PM
This article is a little older, but we aren't anywhere close to last. Timberwolves, Pistons, Hawks, Wizards, Raptors, Kings, Pels, Bucks, Jazz, Suns, Magic, Bobcats were all worse draws than us last year.

http://regressing.deadspin.com/which-nba-teams-are-the-best-and-worst-road-draws-1502074286

Even this year we are 19 out of 30 in away team draw. Bulls, Blazers, Jazz, Suns, Heat, Magic, Pistons, Kings, Celtics, Clippers, Bucks have all been a worse average draw.

http://espn.go.com/nba/attendance/_/sort/awayAvg


If you look at home attendance the sixers were last in 2015, 2nd to last in 2014, and are 26th out of 30 this year. You have the filter on road games.

Scoots
12-10-2015, 02:35 PM
Collusion.

The CBA comes with a congressional exemption ... they can't collude they are treated as a single corporation, and nothing was forced on the Sixers owner.

I think this is positive for everybody but Hinkie. The Process doesn't have to change as so many Sixers fans have said multiple times that the tanking is over now already so all that has changed is that the front office will talk to the press more and they will have more eyes on the talent in the draft and free agency.

Alayla
12-10-2015, 02:36 PM
You have one center who doesn't play at all, one who only plays defense, and one who only plays offense. No offense but so far Philly has little to show for all there loses.

You still don't GET it do you? the idea was never to have something to show for it in year 3 let alone when all of our losses never got us the top pick.
What we DO have is a huge amount of assets and even if from this point on we drafted like Kahn and never saw another worthwhile pick on the floor again we have already won.

At any time overnight you can flip these assets and cap space for a contending team ala Boston 2007.
People keep shortsightedly looking at what is on the floor right now and saying (SEE SEE LOOK YOU DON'T HAVE A WINNING PRODUCT ON THE COURT SO MUCH FOR THE TANK HAHA).

What they don't realize is that in the blink of an eye we can change that at will now with a war-chest of assets just waiting to be cashed in.
Hell i should cut you guys some slack because some times even other Philly fans forget just how blessed of a situation we are in. At this point its likely that none of the players on the court today will be a fixture in the final team besides maybe Embiid if for no other reason than hes more valuable to us than any other team in the NBA at this point.

Scoots
12-10-2015, 02:46 PM
One thing that I hadn't thought about that has been pissing off the other owners ... any leaguewide salary underfall is split evenly between all teams. That means that this year the Cavs and all the teams over the cap and over the tax line will have to pay 1/30th of the salary underfall which is coming considerably more from the Sixers than any other team for multiple years in a row while they are WAY over the cap. I haven't checked lately but IIRC the Sixers are going to have to trade for Joe Johnson+ to get up to the floor this year.

So ... the Sixers are pissing off:

Their own casual fans who don't understand.

The fans of other teams who have paid for game tickets against them with their season tickets.

All of the arena staffs and marketing staffs for every team in the NBA who have 1 to several games a year where attendance is going to suffer.

Avid NBA fans who are offended by a team not trying to win for multiple years in a row and for trying to "manipulate" the system for their own gain.

Agents who don't like having Hinkie take some of the agents leverage against other teams.

Owners who don't like losing potential revenue.

Owners who don't like having to answer questions about tanking, particularly because they know they might have to tank in the future.

Owners who don't like writing checks to pay someone elses debts.

I presume their own players are not happy with the losing and with being a mockery.

There were rumbles about the players being upset about the moves to get up to the salary cap floor just before the deadline which literally took millions out of the pockets of the guys who showed up to play all year.

I understand the process and I find it interesting, but anybody who doesn't understand why people in general don't like it ... they have not been paying attention.

Alayla
12-10-2015, 02:48 PM
agreed. You were given the Wolves shaft, meaning, since 1989, prior to this last year (Towns), every single time we had a high lottery pick, we would end up at the spot where the talent dropped big time.

I feel you but johnny flynn over curry was a confusing one even at the time it paints an ugly picture in my head haha.

ewing
12-10-2015, 02:49 PM
You still don't GET it do you? the idea was never to have something to show for it in year 3 let alone when all of our losses never got us the top pick.
What we DO have is a huge amount of assets and even if from this point on we drafted like Kahn and never saw another worthwhile pick on the floor again we have already won.

At any time overnight you can flip these assets and cap space for a contending team ala Boston 2007.
People keep shortsightedly looking at what is on the floor right now and saying (SEE SEE LOOK YOU DON'T HAVE A WINNING PRODUCT ON THE COURT SO MUCH FOR THE TANK HAHA).

What they don't realize is that in the blink of an eye we can change that at will now with a war-chest of assets just waiting to be cashed in.
Hell i should cut you guys some slack because some times even other Philly fans forget just how blessed of a situation we are in. At this point its likely that none of the players on the court today will be a fixture in the final team besides maybe Embiid if for no other reason than hes more valuable to us than any other team in the NBA at this point.

So far so good. 3 lotto picks. 3 centers and one of them looks like he maybe a player in this league. To bad he also seems to have some serious maturity issues but if i was a 76ers fan i'd be happy i had him. I will say its really good for your future that your awful GM didn't invest in anything and you guys have a bunch of picks. Jerry is in a good spot to start a rebuild.

JEDean89
12-10-2015, 02:57 PM
Yeah I would be happy if I'm JC. Hinkie was awful, no doubt. You don't draft 3 C's, when there are talents like Porzingis on the table. However, Sarric has a chance to be good, and maybe Oka can turn into a 2 way player. I think you guys have to get either Simmons, Bender or Murray to call this a good rebuild.

The problem most people ignore about rebuilding is the problem the Jazz and Magic are suddenly being faced with. They got loads of young talent and are now contending for playoff spots, but they didn't get a #1 option, and will be forced to rebuild yet again in 4-5 years time. The 76ers are looking like they are going to be facing the same problem. If they get the 3rd pick in this years draft, they will be forced to take a big, and they will miss out on yet another transcendant star. I just don't see this type of rebuild becoming the new norm. I'd much rather tank like the Wolves or Nuggets, who have a team in place, but needed a couple stars, but have vets to help out.

Alayla
12-10-2015, 03:05 PM
Yeah I would be happy if I'm JC. Hinkie was awful, no doubt. You don't draft 3 C's, when there are talents like Porzingis on the table. However, Sarric has a chance to be good, and maybe Oka can turn into a 2 way player. I think you guys have to get either Simmons, Bender or Murray to call this a good rebuild.

The problem most people ignore about rebuilding is the problem the Jazz and Magic are suddenly being faced with. They got loads of young talent and are now contending for playoff spots, but they didn't get a #1 option, and will be forced to rebuild yet again in 4-5 years time. The 76ers are looking like they are going to be facing the same problem. If they get the 3rd pick in this years draft, they will be forced to take a big, and they will miss out on yet another transcendant star. I just don't see this type of rebuild becoming the new norm. I'd much rather tank like the Wolves or Nuggets, who have a team in place, but needed a couple stars, but have vets to help out.

Hindsight is 20-20 no one would have picked him over Okafor at the time idc what team you are not to mention as i said these are asessts to the 76ers almost none of them will be on the final roster.

5ass
12-10-2015, 03:21 PM
Yeah I would be happy if I'm JC. Hinkie was awful, no doubt. You don't draft 3 C's, when there are talents like Porzingis on the table. However, Sarric has a chance to be good, and maybe Oka can turn into a 2 way player. I think you guys have to get either Simmons, Bender or Murray to call this a good rebuild.

The problem most people ignore about rebuilding is the problem the Jazz and Magic are suddenly being faced with. They got loads of young talent and are now contending for playoff spots, but they didn't get a #1 option, and will be forced to rebuild yet again in 4-5 years time. The 76ers are looking like they are going to be facing the same problem. If they get the 3rd pick in this years draft, they will be forced to take a big, and they will miss out on yet another transcendant star. I just don't see this type of rebuild becoming the new norm. I'd much rather tank like the Wolves or Nuggets, who have a team in place, but needed a couple stars, but have vets to help out.

People are so obsessed with having a #1 option. There are only like 6 of them in the league. Curry, Westbrook, Durant, George, Harden, LeBron. I dont see the Magic rebuilding in 4-5 years. They don't want a guy that dominates the ball anyway, they want to play in an offense that shares ball like the Spurs and Hawks.

5ass
12-10-2015, 03:26 PM
I forgot PG. Also the Magic made the most of their draft picks. Hennigan did the best with what he had to work with. Oladipo draft doesn't have a #1 option, we picked 4th in 2014, and 5th in 2015. What did you want them to keep Vaughn and keep on losing games?

warfelg
12-10-2015, 04:11 PM
I forgot PG. Also the Magic made the most of their draft picks. Hennigan did the best with what he had to work with. Oladipo draft doesn't have a #1 option, we picked 4th in 2014, and 5th in 2015. What did you want them to keep Vaughn and keep on losing games?

Well a big thing too was Hinkie's focus was to have as many assets as possible so that if a move came along to make, he would have to best assets to make that move. He enshrewed team construction for asset collection.

Now has every single move lit the world on fire? Hell no.

We've come out of this with Noel, Okafor, Saric, Embiid, Our picks intact, LAL pick, OKC pick, Miami Pick, a couple of future second round picks, RoCo, Wroten, Grant. All of that has some value to us as ability to make potential moves.

I think what has bothered some is he has enshrewed really building a team, has these assets, have what a lot of people think is a big time talent in Okafor, and he hasn't done anything to put complementary talent.

Wrigheyes4MVP
12-10-2015, 04:15 PM
The problem isn't the 76ers. It's the nature of the NBA and the lottery. I don't know the solution, but other sports don't have this constant problem.

Alayla
12-10-2015, 04:17 PM
Well a big thing too was Hinkie's focus was to have as many assets as possible so that if a move came along to make, he would have to best assets to make that move. He enshrewed team construction for asset collection.

Now has every single move lit the world on fire? Hell no.

We've come out of this with Noel, Okafor, Saric, Embiid, Our picks intact, LAL pick, OKC pick, Miami Pick, a couple of future second round picks, RoCo, Wroten, Grant. All of that has some value to us as ability to make potential moves.

I think what has bothered some is he has enshrewed really building a team, has these assets, have what a lot of people think is a big time talent in Okafor, and he hasn't done anything to put complementary talent.

Id be miffed if i believed Okafor was the guy but i don't im not anywhere close to sold on that idea.
But we have been over that xD.

5ass
12-10-2015, 04:28 PM
Well a big thing too was Hinkie's focus was to have as many assets as possible so that if a move came along to make, he would have to best assets to make that move. He enshrewed team construction for asset collection.

Now has every single move lit the world on fire? Hell no.

We've come out of this with Noel, Okafor, Saric, Embiid, Our picks intact, LAL pick, OKC pick, Miami Pick, a couple of future second round picks, RoCo, Wroten, Grant. All of that has some value to us as ability to make potential moves.

I think what has bothered some is he has enshrewed really building a team, has these assets, have what a lot of people think is a big time talent in Okafor, and he hasn't done anything to put complementary talent.

That's the problem. Hinkie is good at collecting assets (though the owners were way more patient than others), but there's more to being a great GM. This is the third year of their rebuild and the fans still have no idea what this team will look like in a couple of years. Half these players you listed probably won't be on the team.

warfelg
12-10-2015, 04:29 PM
The problem isn't the 76ers. It's the nature of the NBA and the lottery. I don't know the solution, but other sports don't have this constant problem.

Not just the lottery but the nature of player movement.

NFL and NHL do hard caps to make sure teams don't spend over a certain amount to make player movement and balance the teams.
MLB now has the pick rule on top 10 picks and signing class A FA's. They also aren't as dependent on 1 player and, for the most part, need player development. So drafting players takes a little longer to pay off.

NBA has no hard cap, only a luxury. So good team (more revenue) + rich owner = overspending. Add in a system where anyone with the 15 worse records can get the #1 pick and it creates prolonged issues.

NBA really needs to go to hard cap for 14 players, max salaries under that. Every team gets 1 player they can pay outside that cap number, no max number.

JEDean89
12-10-2015, 04:53 PM
Hindsight is 20-20 no one would have picked him over Okafor at the time idc what team you are not to mention as i said these are asessts to the 76ers almost none of them will be on the final roster.

yes but everything in the nba is judged in hindsight. and jerry gets to come in with all the assets and compared to this guy who missed on talent and picked similar players. the bar has been set low in philly. no one will remember that Oka was the better pick at the time, like the darko siutation. all people remember is the talent that was missed.

warfelg
12-10-2015, 04:56 PM
yes but everything in the nba is judged in hindsight. and jerry gets to come in with all the assets and compared to this guy who missed on talent and picked similar players. the bar has been set low in philly. no one will remember that Oka was the better pick at the time, like the darko siutation. all people remember is the talent that was missed.

So 20ish games into Oka's career and he's a write off? Is that what you're saying? Give up on him because it's 20 games in and he's not racking up 30-15? Because that's what your making sound like. To me it sounds like you're saying players don't develop. That things don't change. Hell why does anyone play past game 20 and ruin their legacy?

JEDean89
12-10-2015, 04:56 PM
People are so obsessed with having a #1 option. There are only like 6 of them in the league. Curry, Westbrook, Durant, George, Harden, LeBron. I dont see the Magic rebuilding in 4-5 years. They don't want a guy that dominates the ball anyway, they want to play in an offense that shares ball like the Spurs and Hawks.

dude, only the spurs have won without a true #1 option in like, forever. if the magic don't get a guy who can score in intense halfcourt sets against the best defenses in the league, they will struggle to win.

Hawkeye15
12-10-2015, 05:36 PM
I feel you but johnny flynn over curry was a confusing one even at the time it paints an ugly picture in my head haha.

I removed that from my mind so I have no idea what you are talking about....

warfelg
12-10-2015, 05:48 PM
dude, only the spurs have won without a true #1 option in like, forever. if the magic don't get a guy who can score in intense halfcourt sets against the best defenses in the league, they will struggle to win.

Spurs have won with #1 guys.

Robinson > Duncan > Parker > now Leonard.

Spurs have just such a great job of surrounding their #1 guys with great talent. I would say more so than any other team in the NBA. It's why they have been consistently better than any other franchise since the mid-90's. They manage to put so much around their guy, that he has great support if he has a terrible night.

2-ONE-5
12-10-2015, 05:51 PM
yes but everything in the nba is judged in hindsight. and jerry gets to come in with all the assets and compared to this guy who missed on talent and picked similar players. the bar has been set low in philly. no one will remember that Oka was the better pick at the time, like the darko siutation. all people remember is the talent that was missed.

wow this is nothing like the Darko situation, get real. you act like its been determined who the best players in this class are after 20 games.

5ass
12-10-2015, 06:09 PM
dude, only the spurs have won without a true #1 option in like, forever. if the magic don't get a guy who can score in intense halfcourt sets against the best defenses in the league, they will struggle to win.

Spurs and Pistons. It won't be easy, but it could happen. I'm not saying the Magic are guaranteed a championship, but you build that type of team and keep them together for a decade, and they have a chance. With our versatility, depth, athleticism and defense we're already a tough team to beat, and we're no where close to our ceiling.

They have two 20 yr old top 5 picks coming off the bench playing less than 20 mpg, are the second youngest team in the league, and have probably been in more close losses than any team in the NBA. Still, they're 2 games above 0.500. I think they're doing a good job of winning right now. Maybe they consolidate some of their assets and get a true #1 option, because they do have a lot of assets. Maybe we make the play offs this year and attract a star FA. Maybe someone on our roster emerges into that type of player. Who knows, but to say they'll be rebuilding in 4-5 years? Come on now. Hell, just a few years ago we made the finals without a true #1 option.

Scoots
12-10-2015, 06:22 PM
I make a well reasoned and reasonable post and it's just ignored :)

I like having tanking teams in the NBA, it gives the other teams a place to dump their terrible contracts.

There really is no solution to the lottery/tanking issue.

- Every team (all 30) have an equal shot at every pick. (then at some point a title winner will get the 1st pick and everyone will lose their minds)

- Each team rotates through each pick so you get the first overall pick once every 30 years. Yeah right that will work GREAT.

- Add the bottom seeded playoff teams into the lottery to keep teams from tanking the end of the season.

- And my personal preference is do away with the draft entirely, have the NBA assign players to a round pool based on internal scouts and each team can sign one player from each pool each year and that right to sign is itself tradeable. That's the only way I can come up with where every team will be maximally incentivized to win and build a quality program, and where losing teams don't necessarily get screwed out of the better prospects.

warfelg
12-10-2015, 07:05 PM
I make a well reasoned and reasonable post and it's just ignored :)

I like having tanking teams in the NBA, it gives the other teams a place to dump their terrible contracts.

There really is no solution to the lottery/tanking issue.

- Every team (all 30) have an equal shot at every pick. (then at some point a title winner will get the 1st pick and everyone will lose their minds)

- Each team rotates through each pick so you get the first overall pick once every 30 years. Yeah right that will work GREAT.

- Add the bottom seeded playoff teams into the lottery to keep teams from tanking the end of the season.

- And my personal preference is do away with the draft entirely, have the NBA assign players to a round pool based on internal scouts and each team can sign one player from each pool each year and that right to sign is itself tradeable. That's the only way I can come up with where every team will be maximally incentivized to win and build a quality program, and where losing teams don't necessarily get screwed out of the better prospects.

Eh those are all bad IMO.

I think a great Lotto reform is to tier the lotto groupings so there's little difference between each one. Something like:
Tier 1 Lotto teams, worst 5 teams, each with 10% chance of #1 pick. (50% chance top pick is a bottom 5 team)
Tier 2 Lotto teams, 6-10 worst teams, each with a 6% chance of #1 pick. (30% chance top pick is from this group)
Tier 3 Lotto teams, 11-15 worst teams, each with a 4% chance of #1 pick. (20% chance top pick is from this group)

Then re-adjust odds for pick two for a 60/25/15 split, pick 3 gets a 75/15/10 split. After that all picks are ranked based off record.

But to me the issue with the entire system isn't the draft or the lotto system. It's the FA/Cap system. Which is why I wrote:

Not just the lottery but the nature of player movement.

NFL and NHL do hard caps to make sure teams don't spend over a certain amount to make player movement and balance the teams.
MLB now has the pick rule on top 10 picks and signing class A FA's. They also aren't as dependent on 1 player and, for the most part, need player development. So drafting players takes a little longer to pay off.

NBA has no hard cap, only a luxury. So good team (more revenue) + rich owner = overspending. Add in a system where anyone with the 15 worse records can get the #1 pick and it creates prolonged issues.

NBA really needs to go to hard cap for 14 players, max salaries under that. Every team gets 1 player they can pay outside that cap number, no max number.

Alayla
12-10-2015, 11:06 PM
dude, only the spurs have won without a true #1 option in like, forever. if the magic don't get a guy who can score in intense halfcourt sets against the best defenses in the league, they will struggle to win.

2004 Pistons say Hi also considering the spurs hold claim to about a 3rd of the rings in the last 15 years id say that saying (only the spurs did it) is a pretty misleading thing in the first place.

Also i love how your claiming both the sixers and the magic 2 of the by far youngest teams in the NBA don't have a number one option on the roster or on the way so definitively as if you know the future

ewing
12-10-2015, 11:14 PM
whenever i **** up from now on im just going to call it the process.

Alayla
12-10-2015, 11:16 PM
yes but everything in the nba is judged in hindsight. and jerry gets to come in with all the assets and compared to this guy who missed on talent and picked similar players. the bar has been set low in philly. no one will remember that Oka was the better pick at the time, like the darko siutation. all people remember is the talent that was missed.

Yes well in hindsight so far the sixers got exactly what they expected out of there pick comparing Okafor to Darko at this stage is mind boggling you just went full homer i know you thrilled about porzingis but SLOW YOUR ROLE LOL. this is not a pick a fringe starter over Wade Melo and Bosh situation we don't even know if porzingis will have as good of a career as any of those guys yet but nothing suggests Okafor is going to bust yet also so its a pointless comparison.
Basketball is not played in a vaccum plenty of players started off like porzingis and okafor have only to suck every year atfer there rookie year we dont even know if these 2 are players in the NBA yet let alone who was the better draftpick in the long haul.
What happened to giving kids 5 or 6 years before we look back at there class and decide the studs and duds these days people label players busts the first day they step on the court its mind blowing.

More-Than-Most
12-10-2015, 11:55 PM
The problem isn't the 76ers. It's the nature of the NBA and the lottery. I don't know the solution, but other sports don't have this constant problem.

This plus superstars wanting to play with other superstars and building superteams and making lesser teams have to always draft well or tank... If James doesnt go back to the cavs how long would the cavs be one of the worst teams in basketball... the hawks have built a good team but that team will never ever win a championship because they are without a superstar... now we are in an era where all superstars want to team up... Shaq/Wade... Lebron/Wade/Bosh.... Howard/Harden and Durant next year just watch.. They need to fix both the lottery and the superteam crap

valade16
12-11-2015, 08:53 AM
You still don't GET it do you? the idea was never to have something to show for it in year 3 let alone when all of our losses never got us the top pick.
What we DO have is a huge amount of assets and even if from this point on we drafted like Kahn and never saw another worthwhile pick on the floor again we have already won.

At any time overnight you can flip these assets and cap space for a contending team ala Boston 2007.
People keep shortsightedly looking at what is on the floor right now and saying (SEE SEE LOOK YOU DON'T HAVE A WINNING PRODUCT ON THE COURT SO MUCH FOR THE TANK HAHA).

What they don't realize is that in the blink of an eye we can change that at will now with a war-chest of assets just waiting to be cashed in.
Hell i should cut you guys some slack because some times even other Philly fans forget just how blessed of a situation we are in. At this point its likely that none of the players on the court today will be a fixture in the final team besides maybe Embiid if for no other reason than hes more valuable to us than any other team in the NBA at this point.

When I think of blessed NBA teams, the first that comes to mind is the 1-23 76ers

2-ONE-5
12-11-2015, 10:13 AM
the goal was to be blessed for the future after a few years, the first phase is complete, this offseason will begin the next step.

valade16
12-11-2015, 11:33 AM
the goal was to be blessed for the future after a few years, the first phase is complete, this offseason will begin the next step.

I'm assuming you mean the ambiguous phrase of a few years and not literally a few years, which would be two since we're in year 3 and the record is worse than it's ever been.

But that was one of two questions I tried to ask 76er fans about this rebuild, how long do you expect it to take before you're competing/respectable and what level of success do you expect to have for how many years of tanking?

Clearly the owner thought these 3 years (with a strong indication there would be a 4th and probably a 5th year of not being very good) was simply too long to start competing.

Jamiecballer
12-11-2015, 11:49 AM
Sixers are reaping what they sowed

2-ONE-5
12-11-2015, 12:26 PM
I'm assuming you mean the ambiguous phrase of a few years and not literally a few years, which would be two since we're in year 3 and the record is worse than it's ever been.

But that was one of two questions I tried to ask 76er fans about this rebuild, how long do you expect it to take before you're competing/respectable and what level of success do you expect to have for how many years of tanking?

Clearly the owner thought these 3 years (with a strong indication there would be a 4th and probably a 5th year of not being very good) was simply too long to start competing.

no i mean we have collected probably more assets than any team in history under hinkie. The tear down is complete and some building blocks have been added. Fully expect to be in the playoffs within 2 years, if not next depending how the offseason goes. The owners knew exactly what they were getting into and nothing has changed with the JC hire, nor will it. The owners actually passed on Hinkie the year prior to the Bynum fiasco and then offered him the job the following year and green lit his strategy and at the money the franchise is worth more now than when purchased.

ewing
12-11-2015, 12:55 PM
no i mean we have collected probably more assets than any team in history under hinkie. The tear down is complete and some building blocks have been added. Fully expect to be in the playoffs within 2 years, if not next depending how the offseason goes. The owners knew exactly what they were getting into and nothing has changed with the JC hire, nor will it. The owners actually passed on Hinkie the year prior to the Bynum fiasco and then offered him the job the following year and green lit his strategy and at the money the franchise is worth more now than when purchased.

How do they have the most assets ever? I'd like for my knicks to have Okafor and your picks. they also have the ability to spend money if players want to come, if they spend that money wisely they can acquire assets. You know who has assets? the GSW

2-ONE-5
12-11-2015, 01:18 PM
Okafor, Noel, Covington, and Wroten are all players who would play on any team in the league in some capacity. We have the Lakers top 3 protected pick for 2 years then it becomes unprotected, the right to swap picks with the Kings the next 2 years if they have the better pick and if we dont swap we get first rounders in like 2018-19 or something, Heat and OKC first rounders this year and to top if off our own probably top 3-4 pick. Oh and cap room out da ***. Yea those are assets, the best pakcage of assets in the league at this present moment

ewing
12-11-2015, 02:33 PM
Okafor, Noel, Covington, and Wroten are all players who would play on any team in the league in some capacity. We have the Lakers top 3 protected pick for 2 years then it becomes unprotected, the right to swap picks with the Kings the next 2 years if they have the better pick and if we dont swap we get first rounders in like 2018-19 or something, Heat and OKC first rounders this year and to top if off our own probably top 3-4 pick. Oh and cap room out da ***. Yea those are assets, the best pakcage of assets in the league at this present moment


Picks and Okafor are the only assets with significant value. Cap space is not an asset. It allows you to peruse assets.

2-ONE-5
12-11-2015, 02:39 PM
cap space is absolutely an asset. Our cap space has gotten players and picks for free. The Kings deal was a result of our cap space, we have been given 2nd round picks just to help facilitate trades bcuz of our cap sapce, etc

ewing
12-11-2015, 02:53 PM
cap space is absolutely an asset. Our cap space has gotten players and picks for free. The Kings deal was a result of our cap space, we have been given 2nd round picks just to help facilitate trades bcuz of our cap sapce, etc


cap space gives you flexibility in pursuing assets through signings and trades, it is not an asset. If you team had the most asset ever they wouldn't be 1-22.

2-ONE-5
12-11-2015, 03:02 PM
we can agree to disagree then. we got Stauskus and the picks from the Kings bcuz of our cap sapce for a salary dump

5ass
12-11-2015, 03:12 PM
More assets than any team in NBA history LOL

warfelg
12-11-2015, 03:23 PM
More assets than any team in NBA history LOL

Even I'm chuckling at that. I would argue we have more opportunities at changing our roster than most other teams right now. But that's as far as I'll go. Because the cap space is useless unless we can make a salary dump move or sign a FA.

Alayla
12-11-2015, 03:53 PM
Picks and Okafor are the only assets with significant value. Cap space is not an asset. It allows you to peruse assets.

http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/asset.html
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/asset
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/asset

Since this has become an argument of definitions let me boil this down for you so you can digest it Cap room is by definition an asset. Now lets move on to more productive aspects of this debate please and thank you.

Alayla
12-11-2015, 03:56 PM
More assets than any team in NBA history LOL

That was definitely frustration talking i cant blame him given the way people decide to act about this situation but hes definitely wrong in that statement.

Alayla
12-11-2015, 03:57 PM
Even I'm chuckling at that. I would argue we have more opportunities at changing our roster than most other teams right now. But that's as far as I'll go. Because the cap space is useless unless we can make a salary dump move or sign a FA.

Most flexibility ever might actually be debatable and that's a great place to be in.

ewing
12-11-2015, 03:58 PM
http://www.businessdictionary.com/definition/asset.html
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/asset
http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us/definition/american_english/asset

Since this has become an argument of definitions let me boil this down for you so you can digest it Cap room is by definition an asset. Now lets move on to more productive aspects of this debate please and thank you.


no it isn't.

2-ONE-5
12-11-2015, 04:16 PM
That was definitely frustration talking i cant blame him given the way people decide to act about this situation but hes definitely wrong in that statement.

i stand by it. find me a team that ever this many tradable pieces, cap space and first round picks in one draft at the same time to go with anywhere from 1-4 potential all-star caliber players (in their prime)? Now how it all opans is is a whole other thing

2-ONE-5
12-11-2015, 04:17 PM
no it isn't.

so the Vlade just gave us Stauskus, Landry, Thompson, and 2 first round picks for the hell of it?

ewing
12-11-2015, 04:26 PM
so the Vlade just gave us Stauskus, Landry, Thompson, and 2 first round picks for the hell of it?

your space would have allowed you to swallow Derrick Rose's final two years without matching salaries before the year started as well. Making that move would have been dumb but you could have done it. Right now the Sixers have Okafor and picks as assets they also have flexibility in pursuing future assets

warfelg
12-11-2015, 04:30 PM
your space would have allowed you to swallow Derrick Rose's final two years without matching salaries before the year started as well. Making that move would have been dumb but you could have done it. Right now the Sixers have Okafor and picks as assets they also have flexibility in pursuing future assets

And Noel, Wroten, Robert Covington, Jeremi Grant, Dario Saric. I know you make it your job to trash us and short change us, but you don't know jack if you think they aren't assets.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
12-11-2015, 04:33 PM
Capspace is nice when you land the said player you're aiming for. But it's also toxic with a empty roster and tons of money. Some free agents wanna be the final piece not the first piece and the team still sucks. Also there's times having cap ya canmiss out. Some free agents stayed and the teams with max cap slots stuck hanging onto the bag of money.

Kinda like when Bulls and Knicks both had a few max cap slots for TMAC and Grant Hill back in the day. Duncan and Pierce and Dirk stayed. Hill stayed with Magic and TMAC sign with Magic. Bulls signed Ron Mercer and don't have a clue what Knicks got stuck signing. Capspace isn't as valuable as it was like 5 years ago eating dead weight. Teams are guarding their first round picks now. Also new TV deal every team has tons of cap now. But yeah you can eat dead weight to get picks and hang around minimum cap apron. But cap going up most likely less dead weight traded. More like buyouts now.

5ass
12-11-2015, 04:43 PM
There are going to be like 20-25 team that can offer a max next season. Why would a star FA want to come to a team on pace to barely win 4 games this season?

warfelg
12-11-2015, 04:44 PM
Capspace is nice when you land the said player you're aiming for. But it's also toxic with a empty roster and tons of money. Some free agents wanna be the final piece not the first piece and the team still sucks. Also there's times having cap ya canmiss out. Some free agents stayed and the teams with max cap slots stuck hanging onto the bag of money.

Kinda like when Bulls and Knicks both had a few max cap slots for TMAC and Grant Hill back in the day. Duncan and Pierce and Dirk stayed. Hill stayed with Magic and TMAC sign with Magic. Bulls signed Ron Mercer and don't have a clue what Knicks got stuck signing. Capspace isn't as valuable as it was like 5 years ago eating dead weight. Teams are guarding their first round picks now. Also new TV deal every team has tons of cap now. But yeah you can eat dead weight to get picks and hang around minimum cap apron. But cap going up most likely less dead weight traded. More like buyouts now.

Cap space is such a double edged sword when it comes to being a possible "asset":

On one side you have to have cap room to be able to sign a guy. Without the "asset" of space you are unable to pursue any free agents. You can't make moves to do an unbalanced money trade where you bring in a guy making more money than you are sending out.

On the flip side, when you have that much space, you usually (not always) have a reason for that much space. And getting a guy to come to you takes that much more work to get a guy to come to you. Getting a player to sign with you takes a really really good pitch, or the ability to being in multiple of the big money players.

2-ONE-5
12-11-2015, 05:29 PM
your space would have allowed you to swallow Derrick Rose's final two years without matching salaries before the year started as well. Making that move would have been dumb but you could have done it. Right now the Sixers have Okafor and picks as assets they also have flexibility in pursuing future assets

you didnt answer my question

ewing
12-11-2015, 06:28 PM
you didnt answer my question

no they wouldn't. that doesn't make cap space an asset it allowed you to pursue assets. cap space isn't winning you any games.

ewing
12-11-2015, 08:46 PM
to be fair the only "assets" i see my knicks having are Zinger, AA, Melo, and maybe Robin and i don't think Melo and Robin are very good assets but they make us potentially good enough to attract other players and give Zinger a nice home to develop in. You are just bad and guy isn't good enough to fetch you a 1st rounder he is just filler in my mind. I have a lot of reservation about Noel but he is an asset and i guess the Euro is too but i don't like evaluating guys i have never seen

warfelg
12-11-2015, 09:00 PM
to be fair the only "assets" i see my knicks having are Zinger, AA, Melo, and maybe Robin and i don't think Melo and Robin are very good assets but they make us potentially good enough to attract other players and give Zinger a nice home to develop in. You are just bad and guy isn't good enough to fetch you a 1st rounder he is just filler in my mind. I have a lot of reservation about Noel but he is an asset and i guess the Euro is too but i don't like evaluating guys i have never seen

This is the most horrible, biased look at what a team has asset wise I've seen in a long time. RoCo, Wroten, Noel have all garnered quite a few calls from other teams. Add in Grant having a good year and Saric and we have more assets than you are admitting.

ewing
12-12-2015, 12:50 AM
This is the most horrible, biased look at what a team has asset wise I've seen in a long time. RoCo, Wroten, Noel have all garnered quite a few calls from other teams. Add in Grant having a good year and Saric and we have more assets than you are admitting.

i doubt the phone is ringing off the hook. I saw your post and realized i extended it to what i would see as an asset and not what has value. Someone might want Noel or the Euro. the other guys are dudes that no one is ever calling about- they could be add ons but that is it. On my team i am huge fan of Langston Galloaway. I think he could develop into a starting PG in this league but i know he isn't fetching me better then a 2nd rounder and on a team that wins no games a guy like that isn't an asset unless he gets better. I do hope he gets better and team gets better.

slashsnake
12-12-2015, 06:38 AM
This is the most horrible, biased look at what a team has asset wise I've seen in a long time. RoCo, Wroten, Noel have all garnered quite a few calls from other teams. Add in Grant having a good year and Saric and we have more assets than you are admitting.

I don't know about that....

The first thing that I would look at when taking the best producing players on an awful team is if they don't look special, are they going to get those same opportunities on my team. And for most of those guys... No. RoCo probably isn't going to have a usage rate higher than Butler or Bosh or Dirk on most teams.

Okafor, sure asset.

Covington? I think he's maxed... A 3 point shooter who can board a bit, definitely not a worthy starter but doing that on a very weak team.

Wroten too. Not a good defender, all left hand and can't pick and roll. Not a good jump shot, looks like he's been shoved 30 minutes a game and he answered with meh. Trying to come back from a torn ACL and his best asset was his athleticism. They tried everything last year before he got hurt to make him the man. Heck his usage rate was higher than Durant or Curry.

Noel maybe... but you spent a 6th round pick on him 2 years ago. I don't know if I'd give up a lottery pick for him especially with how he's been playing this year. I was really hoping him to take a step up this season.

Grant I thought looks the most limited. At the rim he's ok, but it isn't like he has anything to consider a midrange shot and his 3 is just gone now.


Sure I'd make a call maybe on a couple of those guys, but I am not giving up good assets for almost any of them. It's a lot of risk with guys that look like they are just getting minutes because they are on a bad team.

In the end their cap space is there because none of their own guys are worth it. Call it an asset if you want, but I'd much rather be up against the cap because Westbrook is costing me 20 mil than having 20 mil to try and entice someone.


Saric maybe you're willing to give up something worthwhile for. Something that moves the needle. I like his shot and sure they are cutting the heck out of his minutes in Europe, but I get that. Top 10 pick? I am not so sure.

I just struggle to call that roster having more assets than any other in the league. Too many guys there strike me as Wayne Ellington/Wesley Johnson types. Sure they are getting 15-5 as starters if you force them minutes on a bad team, but they are going to be a 5 and 3 guy in 10-15 minutes of play anywhere else.

I'm sure they've gotten calls about guys. Develop some of them deep on the bench and take a flier on them. But just because Cleveland offers you a 2nd round pick for one of them doesn't mean getting that call makes him a nice asset.

warfelg
12-12-2015, 10:56 AM
I don't know about that....

The first thing that I would look at when taking the best producing players on an awful team is if they don't look special, are they going to get those same opportunities on my team. And for most of those guys... No. RoCo probably isn't going to have a usage rate higher than Butler or Bosh or Dirk on most teams.

Okafor, sure asset.

Covington? I think he's maxed... A 3 point shooter who can board a bit, definitely not a worthy starter but doing that on a very weak team.

He's shooting 32% from three, his defense is developing and getting much stronger, and he's becoming a better dribble drive. He's likely out second best starter and definitely has earned his spot in the NBA.


Wroten too. Not a good defender, all left hand and can't pick and roll. Not a good jump shot, looks like he's been shoved 30 minutes a game and he answered with meh. Trying to come back from a torn ACL and his best asset was his athleticism. They tried everything last year before he got hurt to make him the man. Heck his usage rate was higher than Durant or Curry.

His athleticism hasn't really taken a hit. He's coming back, and sure a little rusty. He actually is a decent defender. He is what he is, better off as a speed spark guy off the bench.


Noel maybe... but you spent a 6th round pick on him 2 years ago. I don't know if I'd give up a lottery pick for him especially with how he's been playing this year. I was really hoping him to take a step up this season.

Opinions of Noel have dipped to an all time comical low IMO. Of course no one watches games, and sees how he's lost with Okafor on the court because they don't mesh well since they both are the yin and yang of the exact same player. When Noel is out there without Okafor he looks the exact same as he did at the end of last year. Doesn't help that our PG situation has been **** and offensively he's a pick and roll monster.


Grant I thought looks the most limited. At the rim he's ok, but it isn't like he has anything to consider a midrange shot and his 3 is just gone now.[/QUOTE

And he has been much improved.

[QUOTE=slashsnake;30588573]Sure I'd make a call maybe on a couple of those guys, but I am not giving up good assets for almost any of them. It's a lot of risk with guys that look like they are just getting minutes because they are on a bad team.

In the end their cap space is there because none of their own guys are worth it. Call it an asset if you want, but I'd much rather be up against the cap because Westbrook is costing me 20 mil than having 20 mil to try and entice someone.

Well first off our cap space is there not because none of our own guys aren't worth it, it's because we can't extend any of them yet. And second, I'm in disagreement about cap space being an asset. If you look a little further up thread, I talk about how cap space is a double edged sword. You need cap space to sign a FA when you need one. But at the same time, when you have cap space it usually means you'll struggle to attract a guy because you don't have a star under contract.


Saric maybe you're willing to give up something worthwhile for. Something that moves the needle. I like his shot and sure they are cutting the heck out of his minutes in Europe, but I get that. Top 10 pick? I am not so sure.

Saric is an off one to talk about. He has all the skills you would like. But make no mistake, just because we as fans don't get to see him, doesn't mean that GM's around the league don't know about him.


I just struggle to call that roster having more assets than any other in the league. Too many guys there strike me as Wayne Ellington/Wesley Johnson types. Sure they are getting 15-5 as starters if you force them minutes on a bad team, but they are going to be a 5 and 3 guy in 10-15 minutes of play anywhere else.

I'm sure they've gotten calls about guys. Develop some of them deep on the bench and take a flier on them. But just because Cleveland offers you a 2nd round pick for one of them doesn't mean getting that call makes him a nice asset.

And here's the big issue here, you've talked about all these guys as a 1-for-1 asset swap. And hell, some of these guys are better than MCW, and MCW alone netted us the LAL top-3 protected pick.

But for the most part, we talk in our forum about packaging a few of these assets together for a move. When you do something like Noel, Wroten, Grant, OKC pick, Miami pick together it definitely gets you something worthwhile to both sides.

And this is what massively frustrates us Sixers fans. Everyone wants to talk about us like we don't have a single thing worthwhile at all and it's simply not true. It will be interesting if/when we make a move what went out and what comes in, just to compare how many here say what little we have.

I think the main issue with our team, and my big criticism of Hinkie, has been that a team has been enshrewed for having assets. There's been quite a few young guys moved in the last year or two for very little that I would have happily given up something to get them. Has Shabazz Napier been great? No. But given what the Magic gave up, I would have easily given that up for him. Jeremy Lamb was traded for a second and cap space basically, something we should have matched.

But like I said, when/if we move any of these players it will be interesting to see what we've got vs what everyone would expect these players to get us.

PhillyFaninLA
12-12-2015, 02:58 PM
I heard a rumor that the Sixers are looking to bring in Brand as a mentor. While his playing days are pretty much done, I love the idea of him mentoring our bigs. When we had him before I saw him as this type of guy, I hope we do it and he does prove to be a mentor type.

I'm thinking of a guy like Aaron Mckie at the end of his career before we went into coaching.

mngopher35
12-12-2015, 03:01 PM
I dunno, I don't see much value from Grant/Wroten really, Covington maybe some as a role player. Okafor, Noel, Saric, and your firsts are things I think other teams would actually consider trading something for (even if combined with those other pieces as throw ins they would be the key).

If you look around the league though that is actually a pretty solid list of prospects/picks, even if its not the best out there. Most teams with better assets wouldn't be willing to trade theirs either (Wiggins/Towns for example).

BKLYNpigeon
12-12-2015, 03:39 PM
Adam Silver works for the NBA Owners. Hi did the right thing.


If Sixers Drafted Porzingis, nobody would be complaining.

beasted86
12-12-2015, 07:50 PM
Well to dispell some of those: lots of the DLeague callups have been 10 day contracts. And Robert Covington was a D League call up...
We actually haven't been below the floor....technically.
We only did it twice: Once was MCW, and we clearly won that trade. The other was KJ, who we signed to an odd contract and didn't want to overpay for.
-Regardless... tons of D-League call ups over multiple seasons. Most teams don't do this, even when tanking. Some teams might do it for 1 season, not multiple seasons. I feel the Sixers are treading new territory here.
-I didn't say below the floor. They've been below the cap all 3 seasons so far. Also new territory. I'm not sure the last time a team was below the cap for 3 consecutive seasons rebuilding or not rebuilding, if ever.
-Nonetheless its been done. Forget winning or not winning, tanking or not tanking. Hard for fans (outside diehards) to follow a team with new faces for the team's best player over 3 seasons now. This is part of the brand/image problem that is being discussed, and why they are making this move. And the jury is still out on the MCW trade. Jason Kidd was a poor fit in Dallas his first go round, also on a heavily rebuilding team trying to mixmatch the personalities/skills of the Three Js (Jason Kidd, Jimmy Jackson, Jamal Mashburn). Kidd looked like a poor fit and Dallas "sold high" or so they thought. So MCW can still turn it around with different pieces around him.


Actually we aren't stuck. People said that the C's were stuck at one point and needed to trade PP. But then they too their assets and turned them into Ray Allen and KG, and FA's suddenly came through.

I think that's what's going to end up happening for us. We'll use some of these assets, and maybe not and Allen of KG level player (That they were at the time), but wee till make a move that brings in some vet that interests players. Colangelo has great relationships with players and agents, he'll get the needle moving.

I think what Colangelo was brought in for, and what Owners want to see, and Silver for that matter, is this first domino of Assets to players to fall. Once that happens, things will start to turn around.

If the management group can find good vets that are already under contract, sure, I see them having no problem flipping assets for a good vet. But I feel confident saying they will not be able to trade for a premier player with 1 or 2 seasons left and resign them without a massive overpay.

Alayla
12-12-2015, 09:05 PM
-Regardless... tons of D-League call ups over multiple seasons. Most teams don't do this, even when tanking. Some teams might do it for 1 season, not multiple seasons. I feel the Sixers are treading new territory here.
-I didn't say below the floor. They've been below the cap all 3 seasons so far. Also new territory. I'm not sure the last time a team was below the cap for 3 consecutive seasons rebuilding or not rebuilding, if ever.
-Nonetheless its been done. Forget winning or not winning, tanking or not tanking. Hard for fans (outside diehards) to follow a team with new faces for the team's best player over 3 seasons now. This is part of the brand/image problem that is being discussed, and why they are making this move. And the jury is still out on the MCW trade. Jason Kidd was a poor fit in Dallas his first go round, also on a heavily rebuilding team trying to mixmatch the personalities/skills of the Three Js (Jason Kidd, Jimmy Jackson, Jamal Mashburn). Kidd looked like a poor fit and Dallas "sold high" or so they thought. So MCW can still turn it around with different pieces around him.


If the management group can find good vets that are already under contract, sure, I see them having no problem flipping assets for a good vet. But I feel confident saying they will not be able to trade for a premier player with 1 or 2 seasons left and resign them without a massive overpay.

:facepalm: wow ok yes MCW will turn things around and light up the league becoming a first balad HOFer yes totally realistic people are aware he is already 24 right? He has not gotten a lick better since being draft and he has massive holes in his game.
If he ends up being a all-star caliber player it will be when hes like 30 and has developed a shot and has an up year and gets the nod on the fringe he will never be a guy you build around the potential just isn't there.
Getting the Lakers pick for that is a unquestionable steal.

5ass
12-12-2015, 09:39 PM
:facepalm: wow ok yes MCW will turn things around and light up the league becoming a first balad HOFer yes totally realistic people are aware he is already 24 right? He has not gotten a lick better since being draft and he has massive holes in his game.
If he ends up being a all-star caliber player it will be when hes like 30 and has developed a shot and has an up year and gets the nod on the fringe he will never be a guy you build around the potential just isn't there.
Getting the Lakers pick for that is a unquestionable steal.

What if the Lakers keep their pick this year, sign multiple legit FAs next year, and the pick falls between 12-20? Or what if the Sixers draft a bust? I think that's what he means.

Alayla
12-12-2015, 10:36 PM
What if the Lakers keep their pick this year, sign multiple legit FAs next year, and the pick falls between 12-20? Or what if the Sixers draft a bust? I think that's what he means.

that's clearly not what he means and very unlikely to happen anyway.
at that point you might as well say what if that pick is involved in a trade for Durant sounds just about as likely lol.

2-ONE-5
12-12-2015, 10:38 PM
who is going to the lakers next year? Even if KD went they still arent a contender with that roster. Not many impact FAs next year

5ass
12-12-2015, 10:52 PM
that's clearly not what he means and very unlikely to happen anyway.
at that point you might as well say what if that pick is involved in a trade for Durant sounds just about as likely lol.

That's how I interpreted it. I don't see how its clearly not the case, but I'll let him speak for himself. I don't see why it's very unlikely to happen either. Lakers still have a shot at having the worst record this season, but even if they're second worst, theirs still more chance they keep the pick. So they go into next season with three lottery picks and tons of capspace. With Kobe gone, and with how much capspace they will have, most FAs well be knocking on their door. Remember, not only do they have a huge amount of money in expiring contracts, the salary cap is going to rise by 30 million. They'd have to spend a huge amount of money, like 40 million, just to reach the salary FLOOR. Not the cap, the floor. They'd have about 70 million to reach the cap. That's a crazy amount, and they're still the Lakers.

Alayla
12-12-2015, 11:27 PM
That's how I interpreted it. I don't see how its clearly not the case, but I'll let him speak for himself. I don't see why it's very unlikely to happen either. Lakers still have a shot at having the worst record this season, but even if they're second worst, theirs still more chance they keep the pick. So they go into next season with three lottery picks and tons of capspace. With Kobe gone, and with how much capspace they will have, most FAs well be knocking on their door. Remember, not only do they have a huge amount of money in expiring contracts, the salary cap is going to rise by 30 million. They'd have to spend a huge amount of money, like 40 million, just to reach the salary FLOOR. Not the cap, the floor. They'd have about 70 million to reach the cap. That's a crazy amount, and they're still the Lakers.

yes because being a large market has helped them so much to this point... i heard the same arugements about this pick last season and scoffed at them then.
But even if they made a robbery in FA it still wouldn't assure them a playoff spot or even a winning basketball team there is alot more to winning games than talent look at the Nash Kobe Artest Gasol Howard Lakers for proof of that.

ewing
12-13-2015, 12:42 AM
:facepalm: wow ok yes MCW will turn things around and light up the league becoming a first balad HOFer yes totally realistic people are aware he is already 24 right? He has not gotten a lick better since being draft and he has massive holes in his game.
If he ends up being a all-star caliber player it will be when hes like 30 and has developed a shot and has an up year and gets the nod on the fringe he will never be a guy you build around the potential just isn't there.
Getting the Lakers pick for that is a unquestionable steal.

the best spot the pick can be is 6. You are acting like MCW has to be a HOFer not to be better then who the sixers pick 6 or later after waiting multiple years to be compensated. **** you had just taken MCW 11th the year before and i think he was a pretty good pick. I don't think the sixers got took but it was not a steal either.

More-Than-Most
12-13-2015, 12:56 AM
What if the Lakers keep their pick this year, sign multiple legit FAs next year, and the pick falls between 12-20? Or what if the Sixers draft a bust? I think that's what he means.

the sixers still win the trade... 12-20 pick------------------------->MCW... He was and always has been medicore to bad.. He has so many holes in his games and won ROY because there was no draft class competition... I was pro this trade and wanted him gone and he has shown nothing at all since he has been gone... He will never be a good player sorry

More-Than-Most
12-13-2015, 12:58 AM
That's how I interpreted it. I don't see how its clearly not the case, but I'll let him speak for himself. I don't see why it's very unlikely to happen either. Lakers still have a shot at having the worst record this season, but even if they're second worst, theirs still more chance they keep the pick. So they go into next season with three lottery picks and tons of capspace. With Kobe gone, and with how much capspace they will have, most FAs well be knocking on their door. Remember, not only do they have a huge amount of money in expiring contracts, the salary cap is going to rise by 30 million. They'd have to spend a huge amount of money, like 40 million, just to reach the salary FLOOR. Not the cap, the floor. They'd have about 70 million to reach the cap. That's a crazy amount, and they're still the Lakers.

Everyone thought free agents would be knocking on their door the past few years and it hasnt happened and its not just because of Kobe but because of the front office/Ownership as well and Lakers fans will back me up on that... Free agents will go where the money goes and most free agents now a day want to go where another superstar is and that will only be the lakers if they trade Randle/Clarkson/Russ or something along those lines for like a cousins who I am a big fan of but would think is a terrible move... They have such a bright future with Russ/Randle and clarkson and just need to bide their time a bit.

More-Than-Most
12-13-2015, 01:01 AM
the best spot the pick can be is 6. You are acting like MCW has to be a HOFer not to be better then who the sixers pick 6 or later after waiting multiple years to be compensated. **** you had just taken MCW 11th the year before and i think he was a pretty good pick. I don't think the sixers got took but it was not a steal either.

It was flat out a steal... That draft was horse **** man... Sorry it just was and MCW had so so so many holes in his games and has not improved at all since... We could draft a bad player no doubt but MCW will never be a good player so this was a steal when it happened and might end up as a wash at worst for the sixers if the pick we get busts.

ewing
12-13-2015, 01:34 AM
It was flat out a steal... That draft was horse **** man... Sorry it just was and MCW had so so so many holes in his games and has not improved at all since... We could draft a bad player no doubt but MCW will never be a good player so this was a steal when it happened and might end up as a wash at worst for the sixers if the pick we get busts.

IDK. I think we have different opinions of MCW. I think he is a decent bench player. He is missing a jump shot and at this point IDK it may never come. Still, trading a 6'7 kid with PG skills after his rookie year who is a jump shot away from being a legit starting player for what winds up being a mid round pick years later is not a flat out steal IMO. Again. i don't think they got took but it wasn't a steal IMO.

Alayla
12-13-2015, 04:59 AM
the best spot the pick can be is 6. You are acting like MCW has to be a HOFer not to be better then who the sixers pick 6 or later after waiting multiple years to be compensated. **** you had just taken MCW 11th the year before and i think he was a pretty good pick. I don't think the sixers got took but it was not a steal either.

lol? top 5 protection last year top 3 protection this year unprotected next year
how is that pick 6 at best?
Also i think your late to the party on just how hardcore MCW sucks http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/2596108/michael-carter-williams
i think i was giving him to much credit in truth the chance this kid becomes and allstar is pretty much nonexistent even as a 1 off.

Alayla
12-13-2015, 05:02 AM
IDK. I think we have different opinions of MCW. I think he is a decent bench player. He is missing a jump shot and at this point IDK it may never come. Still, trading a 6'7 kid with PG skills after his rookie year who is a jump shot away from being a legit starting player for what winds up being a mid round pick years later is not a flat out steal IMO. Again. i don't think they got took but it wasn't a steal IMO.

your debating with 2 sixers fans about the kid... if anyone should be high on him its us but mabye you feel its a bitter reaction to the trade?
Go ask bucks fans how they feel about it MCW is lucky to be seeing the court.

ewing
12-13-2015, 07:36 AM
your debating with 2 sixers fans about the kid... if anyone should be high on him its us but mabye you feel its a bitter reaction to the trade?
Go ask bucks fans how they feel about it MCW is lucky to be seeing the court.

I think you guys are likely defend anything this team does. We have fan knicks like that too. In our forum there were posters who did nothing rave about Jeremy Lin until he the day signed with Houston then raved about how much sucked the next day.

warfelg
12-13-2015, 10:26 AM
your debating with 2 sixers fans about the kid... if anyone should be high on him its us but mabye you feel its a bitter reaction to the trade?
Go ask bucks fans how they feel about it MCW is lucky to be seeing the court.

Don't forget Noel is basically a nobody. Noel is better than MCW. Easily.

beasted86
12-13-2015, 12:00 PM
What if the Lakers keep their pick this year, sign multiple legit FAs next year, and the pick falls between 12-20? Or what if the Sixers draft a bust? I think that's what he means.
This is all definitely possible, along with MCW having a bounce back season. He did average 17/6/6 and 2 steals. It's very possible for him to duplicate that production at some point soon, while there's no guarantee the player the Sixers eventually get will not be a bust, an injury bust or not come over for years. After all, they spent a 3rd and 6th overall pick on guys like that already.

Alayla
12-13-2015, 09:58 PM
This is all definitely possible, along with MCW having a bounce back season. He did average 17/6/6 and 2 steals. It's very possible for him to duplicate that production at some point soon, while there's no guarantee the player the Sixers eventually get will not be a bust, an injury bust or not come over for years. After all, they spent a 3rd and 6th overall pick on guys like that already.

Noel is not by any means in any way shape or form a bust he has proven to be one of the best defenders in the NBA already.

As for Embiid the Jury is out right now hard to call a kid who has yet to step on the court yet a bust.
People use that term far to liberally these days.

ewing
12-14-2015, 10:55 AM
Noel is not by any means in any way shape or form a bust he has proven to be one of the best defenders in the NBA already.

As for Embiid the Jury is out right now hard to call a kid who has yet to step on the court yet a bust.
People use that term far to liberally these days.

How?

beasted86
12-14-2015, 11:07 AM
Noel is not by any means in any way shape or form a bust he has proven to be one of the best defenders in the NBA already.

As for Embiid the Jury is out right now hard to call a kid who has yet to step on the court yet a bust.
People use that term far to liberally these days.

Noel is a solid NBA player, but before the ACL injury there was talk of him going number one overall. And as a matter of emphasis, Philly fans were talking about him being a number one talent also and that it would be totally worth losing 1 season of his because he was an absolute steal.

So I guess it's all matter of perspective.

As for Embiid, in any normal matter of opinion, it's okay to call him an injury bust so far.

Alayla
12-14-2015, 11:36 AM
Noel is a solid NBA player, but before the ACL injury there was talk of him going number one overall. And as a matter of emphasis, Philly fans were talking about him being a number one talent also and that it would be totally worth losing 1 season of his because he was an absolute steal.

So I guess it's all matter of perspective.

As for Embiid, in any normal matter of opinion, it's okay to call him an injury bust so far.

So far sure but i dislike the way people use that word in a general sense i get mad when people throw the book at other teams young guys too like Russel getting **** for honestly a situation outside of his control.

Alayla
12-14-2015, 11:39 AM
How?

where you MIA all of last season? he was in the defensive player of the year discussion near the end of last year and everything actually watch him play preferably a game where okafor isnt on the court and hes able to play Center.
He will remind you of a camby or a chandler very quickly if there is anyone on this team worth keeping its Noel
im much higher on him than on Okafor.

Alayla
12-14-2015, 11:47 AM
I think you guys are likely defend anything this team does. We have fan knicks like that too. In our forum there were posters who did nothing rave about Jeremy Lin until he the day signed with Houston then raved about how much sucked the next day.

Well that's not how i work at all i was never a fan of MCW at any point because of his lack of any form of outside shot and his habit of pressing.
I'm not a fan of most of the other players on the team right now also or the implications of the JC hire.
go look on the sixers board for about 15 minutes and wacth how many times i have flatly told the people there they are overvalueing guys like Okafor Wroten Wood etc even grant to an extent
Pretty much anyone on the team not named Noel or Covington would be exposed to an extent on another roster and not find minutes or at least struggle to stand out in the case of Okafor.

TLDR I was not a fan of MCW from the word go he showed flashes sometimes and gave me hope but i feel the same way about him that i do about Okafor very limited ceiling and would be worse on any other team in the league than he is here right now.

ewing
12-14-2015, 11:53 AM
where you MIA all of last season? he was in the defensive player of the year discussion near the end of last year and everything actually watch him play preferably a game where okafor isnt on the court and hes able to play Center.
He will remind you of a camby or a chandler very quickly if there is anyone on this team worth keeping its Noel
im much higher on him than on Okafor.


He got 1 3rd place vote for defensive player of the year. You can be high on him but I don't see how he hasn't proven to be one of the best defenders in the NBA.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
12-14-2015, 11:58 AM
your debating with 2 sixers fans about the kid... if anyone should be high on him its us but mabye you feel its a bitter reaction to the trade?
Go ask bucks fans how they feel about it MCW is lucky to be seeing the court.

Bucks starting Mayo at PG and MCW as 6th man. It kinda lit a fire under MCW lately. Other wise he's been trash most games this season. Personally as a Bucks fan I rather left 76ers out of the trade and took the Lakers pick from the Suns. Since the Suns were getting the best piece of the trade in Knight so we should of taken Lakers pick. But Kidd thinks he can turn MCW into himself. MCW is night and day most games. Every 7 games he has one great game with elite defense then vanishes other games.

ewing
12-14-2015, 12:02 PM
lol? top 5 protection last year top 3 protection this year unprotected next year
how is that pick 6 at best?
Also i think your late to the party on just how hardcore MCW sucks http://espn.go.com/nba/player/stats/_/id/2596108/michael-carter-williams
i think i was giving him to much credit in truth the chance this kid becomes and allstar is pretty much nonexistent even as a 1 off.


I didn't realize the the protection on the picked changed. thxs

warfelg
12-14-2015, 12:10 PM
Bucks starting Mayo at PG and MCW as 6th man. It kinda lit a fire under MCW lately. Other wise he's been trash most games this season. Personally as a Bucks fan I rather left 76ers out of the trade and took the Lakers pick from the Suns. Since the Suns were getting the best piece of the trade in Knight so we should of taken Lakers pick. But Kidd thinks he can turn MCW into himself. MCW is night and day most games. Every 7 games he has one great game with elite defense then vanishes other games.

This is the way he was with us as well. In a two week stretch he would look like trash, then all the sudden have this game where you said "wow, he's putting it together and looks like something". And right when you buy into that hope, it all comes crashing down again.

Alayla
12-14-2015, 09:33 PM
He got 1 3rd place vote for defensive player of the year. You can be high on him but I don't see how he hasn't proven to be one of the best defenders in the NBA.

If your even in the conversation as a rookie on one of the worst teams in the NBA and you lead a team like the Sixers to a top 10 defense there is no way your NOT an elite defensive prospect.
Then consider conventional basketball wisdom is that centers take about 4 seasons to start really getting there footing in the league and showing what they really are and there is not many sane people who wouldn't be high on Noel's Defense.

As for peoples feelings about him during the draft they basically said expect an elite defender who will be a major project offensively and he has been every bit exactly as advertised in the draft. I'm not sure how you argue someone who is doing exactly what scouts implied he would do is a bust especially when that player is 21 and lost a full season to injury and even if he was not doing as expected you don't call 21 year old players busts PERIOD.

What is with this trend of people writing off 19 and 20 year old kids in there first couple years lately? i remember when i first joined PSD people calling curry a kid with glass ankles who would never amount to anything and it was just as mindboggingly stupid at the time as it is now in retrospect only now those same people rave about him as the potential GOAT.
I guess what im trying to say is stop living in the moment give kids a awhile to develop before judging them.

If someone told you right now Porginzgis is as good as he will ever be you would rightfully be defending him because that's just an asinine statement right? So why do that to the young players of another fanbase?

ewing
12-14-2015, 09:47 PM
If your even in the conversation as a rookie on one of the worst teams in the NBA and you lead a team like the Sixers to a top 10 defense there is no way your NOT an elite defensive prospect.
Then consider conventional basketball wisdom is that centers take about 4 seasons to start really getting there footing in the league and showing what they really are and there is not many sane people who wouldn't be high on Noel's Defense.

As for peoples feelings about him during the draft they basically said expect an elite defender who will be a major project offensively and he has been every bit exactly as advertised in the draft. I'm not sure how you argue someone who is doing exactly what scouts implied he would do is a bust especially when that player is 21 and lost a full season to injury and even if he was not doing as expected you don't call 21 year old players busts PERIOD.

What is with this trend of people writing off 19 and 20 year old kids in there first couple years lately? i remember when i first joined PSD people calling curry a kid with glass ankles who would never amount to anything and it was just as mindboggingly stupid at the time as it is now in retrospect only now those same people rave about him as the potential GOAT.
I guess what im trying to say is stop living in the moment give kids a awhile to develop before judging them.

If someone told you right now Porginzgis is as good as he will ever be you would rightfully be defending him because that's just an asinine statement right? So why do that to the young players of another fanbase?



I said you can be high on him but he hasn't proven anything yet. i'll stand by that. if i said KP had proven that he is an offensive force in this league you'd say i he hasn't and you'd be right as well.

Alayla
12-14-2015, 11:02 PM
I said you can be high on him but he hasn't proven anything yet. i'll stand by that. if i said KP had proven that he is an offensive force in this league you'd say i he hasn't and you'd be right as well.

A full season is alot more time to work with than a 4th of a season.
but everything in KP's tool kit implies a player one hell of a player
Just as everything in Noels Defenseive tool kit does
Both of these players by extension cant be called busts.
Or did you forget that was the centeric point of the discussion?

ewing
12-14-2015, 11:33 PM
A full season is alot more time to work with than a 4th of a season.
but everything in KP's tool kit implies a player one hell of a player
Just as everything in Noels Defenseive tool kit does
Both of these players by extension cant be called busts.
Or did you forget that was the centeric point of the discussion?

thats what you tried to change it to after i asked you how he has proven to be one the best defensive players in the league? and then said i don't think that proves anything after you gave your explanation.

PhillyFaninLA
12-15-2015, 10:02 AM
So now they HAVE to win the lottery right? http://s.coop/1xo07 http://s.coop/1xon9
http://s.coop/1wz2k

No, if the Kings win the lottery we can swap so we have 2 shots at it

Alayla
12-15-2015, 11:00 PM
thats what you tried to change it to after i asked you how he has proven to be one the best defensive players in the league? and then said i don't think that proves anything after you gave your explanation.

No the original thing that i was replying to was the notion that Noel has been a Bust and that's what i'm disputing above all else at this point i could do what most people do and dismiss you as a rabid Knicks fan who hypes there own prospects and takes jabs at anyone not on your team but im trying to be reasonable here i would appericate you give me the same respect and actually argue how Noel is apparently a bust because whenever someone says it all i get from them is hes not putting up 20 10 and how his offense is so bad even though that was expected.
Someone is a bust when you don't get the value expected from the player your picking.
Everything said about Noel before the draft implied exactly what we got so in what way is he a bust?

valade16
12-15-2015, 11:15 PM
Noel is definitely not a bust, but I don't think anyone believes he's a franchise caliber player either.

warfelg
12-15-2015, 11:24 PM
Noel is definitely not a bust, but I don't think anyone believes he's a franchise caliber player either.

You are describing where almost every Sixers fan falls on Noel.

ewing
12-15-2015, 11:48 PM
No the original thing that i was replying to was the notion that Noel has been a Bust and that's what i'm disputing above all else at this point i could do what most people do and dismiss you as a rabid Knicks fan who hypes there own prospects and takes jabs at anyone not on your team but im trying to be reasonable here i would appericate you give me the same respect and actually argue how Noel is apparently a bust because whenever someone says it all i get from them is hes not putting up 20 10 and how his offense is so bad even though that was expected.
Someone is a bust when you don't get the value expected from the player your picking.
Everything said about Noel before the draft implied exactly what we got so in what way is he a bust?


i never said he was a bust. I said he isn't a player i would be interested in trading for. I later did admit he was an asset. I only challenged you when you said things like he has proven to be one of the best defenders in the league and GMs around league are calling about guys like Convington and Wroten. I am haven't been very impressed by Noel. You can be high on him i have no problem with that but I dont think he hasn't proven much.

Alayla
12-16-2015, 02:53 AM
i never said he was a bust. I said he isn't a player i would be interested in trading for. I later did admit he was an asset. I only challenged you when you said things like he has proven to be one of the best defenders in the league and GMs around league are calling about guys like Convington and Wroten. I am haven't been very impressed by Noel. You can be high on him i have no problem with that but I dont think he hasn't proven much.

You personally may not have but beasted (that heat fan) did and when i replied to him you instantly contested me telling me you more or less agree with him.
I suppose that may be a reach on my part but still hes been way to effective in his role to ignore people throwing words like that around hopefully we are at least on the same page there.

As for Gms around the league calling about covington and Wroten when did i ever say anything to that effect?
In fact i might be the lowest on Wroten amoung all sixers fans dude is trash and is a very selfish player reminds me of an even WORSE Nick Young type who was a poor mans Lou Will with more size when he was here.
Lou Will pissed me off to begin with so id say that sums my feelings up about Wroten.