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View Full Version : Jose Fernandez: ERod, Betts, Vazquez, Moncada AND a pitcher?



MiamiBoy77
12-08-2015, 01:29 PM
So now there is a report that a mystery team is making a strong push for him. Could we be that team?

Growing up in Miami (recently moved away) and watching him pitch, I would give up anything and everything that the Marlins want in order to get him.

He is young, we can afford to pay him, and him/Price would give us by far the best 1-2 punch in baseball.

So the Marlins want MLB talent AND prospects. I would give them:

JBJ, Hanley or Sandoval (their choice), their choice of a top of the line pitcher not named Rodriguez or Owens, and then any hitters they want outside of Moncada.

I guess the question is, will DD really lose his mind and go ALL in? Also, how much would you give for Jose?

j-bay
12-08-2015, 01:37 PM
MAKE IT STOP! PLEASE! They aren't going to take Hanley or Sandoval or JBJR. Quit trying to make the deal cheap, as much as I would like it to be. It's going to take most of our top prospects.

ruckus16969
12-08-2015, 01:40 PM
I'd be open to it. Espinoza would have to go, probably Devers or Benintendi. Owens would have to go, JBJ would go

So

Espinoza
Owens
JBJ
Benintendi/Devers
Then 2 mid level guys.

I'd still do it

AI
12-08-2015, 01:41 PM
In before close. This is not happening. They paid Price $217M to avoid this type of move.

AI
12-08-2015, 01:43 PM
I'd be open to it. Espinoza would have to go, probably Devers or Benintendi. Owens would have to go, JBJ would go

So

Espinoza
Owens
JBJ
Benintendi/Devers
Then 2 mid level guys.

I'd still do it

And that would be absolutely moronic, to mortgage our present/future for a SP who will start getting expensive and is littered with red flags: injury history, personality and his agent (Boras client so he would cost a fortune to extend)

Sarge
12-08-2015, 01:48 PM
And that would be absolutely moronic, to mortgage our present/future for a SP who will start getting expensive and is littered with red flags: injury history, personality and his agent (Boras client so he would cost a fortune to extend)

+1 not worth it...and I don't think that would be enough. I think youd have to replace JBJ with Betts or Xander for them to talk to you.

Nomar
12-08-2015, 01:50 PM
In before close. This is not happening. They paid Price $217M to avoid this type of move.

Agreed. If we trade for a good pitcher it will be for someone less expensive that doesn't jeopardize our future. This would kill our farm.

ruckus16969
12-08-2015, 02:24 PM
We got pretty lucky with the last batch of prospects with Vasquez Swihart Erod Betts XB and JBJ all working out for the most part. But that hardly ever happens of our top 10 we will be lucky if 1 or 2 pans out. I would rather use them to get a proven ace.

Now this is all just for conversation and fun cause I'd say the chance of us getting him would be less than 5%.

But I do think it should be considered and talked about. Explored. I think we actually have pieces that could get it done and not cripple us

MiamiBoy77
12-08-2015, 02:35 PM
Mortgage our future for him?? He's 23 years old. He could be our future. If you do not want to give up our entire farm for him, I understand. But to want to hold on to our high end pitching prospects?

We pray that our prospects can pitch like Jose already has at the major league level. Again he is just 23.

If it took Espinosa/Devers/JBJ/B.Johnson/3 mid level players I think that is very worth it.

Guys, we have SO MUCH minor league potential. Not all of them can play. We have to move pieces at some point. A few years ago Cecchini was untouchable.

Edit: sorry I had to add something else. We just signed David F'ing Price. Why not go all out???

AI
12-08-2015, 02:56 PM
Mortgage our future for him?? He's 23 years old. He could be our future. If you do not want to give up our entire farm for him, I understand. But to want to hold on to our high end pitching prospects?

Yes, it is in fact mortgaging our future, regardless of how old Fernandez is. Not to mention, he already had Tommy John and had injury problems last season. Not an arm I would like to invest in heavily both in acquisition cost (prospects) and potential extension (Boras client).


We pray that our prospects can pitch like Jose already has at the major league level. Again he is just 23.

If it took Espinosa/Devers/JBJ/B.Johnson/3 mid level players I think that is very worth it.

No. They don't pray, they do their research using the information they have in order to make the most rationale decision possible. In this case, it's pretty obvious that trading that type of package for Jose is in fact mortgaging our future. You are trading a massive amount of excess value for a pitcher that certainly isn't worth the long-term risk.


Guys, we have SO MUCH minor league potential. Not all of them can play. We have to move pieces at some point. A few years ago Cecchini was untouchable.

Cecchini was never untouchable, and under this new regime, I'm pretty sure you'll see a more aggressive approach to trading guys before their value plummets than we did under Cherington, who was obviously more conservative.


Edit: sorry I had to add something else. We just signed David F'ing Price. Why not go all out???

Because we signed Price to a $217M deal in order to stay away from this type of deal you are proposing, why is that so difficult to understand? People like you on this forum have tunnel vision when it comes to this team, it's like you'll do anything to win now with no regard to how it can completely destroy our team going forward. It's ridiculous.

Bo Sox Fan
12-08-2015, 02:59 PM
Stay far, far, far the **** away from Jose Fernandez. You want to dismantle the farm system for a guy who blew out his elbow 2 years ago and has only averaged 56 innings in each of the last 2 years?

Give your head a shake.

celticsman2009
12-08-2015, 03:02 PM
While I'm satisfied with the offseason so far, it's always fun to dream. If Miami would take Erod instead of Espinoza, I'd be more inclined to make a deal.

E-Rod
Devers
Kopech
Owens

AI
12-08-2015, 03:10 PM
We got pretty lucky with the last batch of prospects with Vasquez Swihart Erod Betts XB and JBJ all working out for the most part. But that hardly ever happens of our top 10 we will be lucky if 1 or 2 pans out. I would rather use them to get a proven ace.

Is it really luck though? They traded Iglesias over Xander. They decided to keep Swihart and Betts instead of trading them for an ace like everyone was clamoring for us to do. We specifically traded for E-Rod at a time where he wasn't really performing well in the minors with the Orioles, that certainly changed once he got here. We kept JBJ even after all his struggles offensively at the major league level. It has all worked out for us because they exercised patience and stuck to their internal evaluations of said players.

People think I'm against trading prospects, I'm not, I'm just against stupid trades and I'm a firm believer that meeting Miami's asking price for their damaged goods will end up being a massive mistake.


Now this is all just for conversation and fun cause I'd say the chance of us getting him would be less than 5%.

But I do think it should be considered and talked about. Explored. I think we actually have pieces that could get it done and not cripple us

Any trade for Fernandez, will in fact, cripple us. How you do not see that is beyond me. We can sit here and act like Devers and Swihart will get it done, it won't. Knowing how ridiculous the Marlins front office is, they are probably asking for one of Xander/Betts and a solid package of our best prospects.

Moncada, Espinoza, Devers, Owens and someone like Chavis. That's the type of deal it would take. That would absolutely cripple our farm system and set this team back going forward.

Celtic AL
12-08-2015, 03:12 PM
i understand he's 23 and hes a great pitcher buts its not worth trading the Heart of the farm for him. Also I cant mortgage a guy who already had TJ Surgery. Its Just to damn risky.

MiamiBoy77
12-08-2015, 03:17 PM
Because we signed Price to a $217M deal in order to stay away from this type of deal you are proposing, why is that so difficult to understand? People like you on this forum have tunnel vision when it comes to this team, it's like you'll do anything to win now with no regard to how it can completely destroy our team going forward. It's ridiculous.

People like me?? You know absolutely nothing about me. That is a little ridiculous. Taking personal shots just because I feel we should trade for a certain player?

We will see how these prospects turn out. This has been a 1 page conversation, man. No need to get so heated. "Why is this so hard to understand?" Why is it so hard for you to understand that this is a forum, where fans of a team talk about things. You disagree, okay. But no need to throw out my thought. Last time I checked, neither of us are inside the front office. What you said is just as much of an opinion as what I said.

RedSoxtober
12-08-2015, 03:40 PM
Mortgage our future for him?? He's 23 years old. He could be our future. If you do not want to give up our entire farm for him, I understand. But to want to hold on to our high end pitching prospects?
Two strong rumors have surfaced around Fernandez. First, the Dodgers were asked for Seager and Urias to headline their package. Second, teams have reportedly been asked for 5-6 prospects with at least two of the players either MLB or MLB-ready. Even without getting into the specifics of the Sox' system that is a pretty steep price.

Looking specifically at the Sox we're probably talking about a package that starts with Moncada (Seager equiv) and Espinoza (Urias equiv). That's a rough guess because Seager (#1) and Urias (#4) were both top five MLB prospects at midseason and had progressed to MLB at 21 and AAA at 18 respectively. By contrast, neither of those top two specs from the Sox has yet moved past A-ball (though Moncada seems to have been deliberately slowed in order to smooth his adjustment to the US). If you were exceptionally lucky you might be able to get them to bite on Castillo as an MLB-ready complementary piece and Marrero for a starting middle infielder. That's probably wishful thinking, though, dealing pieces we're inclined to give away. Recently acquired Elias might still interest them along with JBJ rather than Castillo. Maybe Austin Rei as a throw-in to help their receiving corps. Without getting too carried away with any particular player in the package that seems far too expensive a price to pay for a SP entering his arb years and Boras as his agent. Since you already said "any hitter not named Moncada" I would assume that you would agree.


We pray that our prospects can pitch like Jose already has at the major league level. Again he is just 23.
I won't deny that there is an element of truth to this. There is at least one question both sides of the equation, however. On the Fernandez side there is a reasonable question about whether or not his past performance is any indication of the future. The injury history, at least the potential fear-factor of it, could alter his approach if it does not actually bite him down the line. On the Sox' side, the question is also around how much the (recent) past is an indication of the future for prospect growth. We've moved from a highly analytical group to an old-school eye-test/scouting guy and combined that with three last place finishes in four years (hence, higher talent salted through the system). We've also finally added some legitimate international prospects. At least for the short term there seems to be a good reason to think that the new crop of players is actually different than the past.


Edit: sorry I had to add something else. We just signed David F'ing Price. Why not go all out???
I agree with AI on this. Dombroski mentioned that the extraordinary price of SPs was the reason they moved in the direction of signing Price rather than trading. That's why we don't go "all out" here -- at least in this way. I'd rather send a lesser package for a #2A like Salazar/Carasco.


Stay far, far, far the **** away from Jose Fernandez. You want to dismantle the farm system for a guy who blew out his elbow 2 years ago and has only averaged 56 innings in each of the last 2 years?

I agree that there is cause for concern but the reference to innings pitched is a little absurd. His TJ occurred about six weeks into the 2014 season and that robbed him of both the remainder of that season and half of the next (first game back was at the start of July). OF COURSE he was going to have a low IP total for the last two years.

The only reasonable question, IMO, is whether the shoulder issue this August was "fruit of the poison tree" or an entirely new issue. It would not surprise me if he was compensating for the elbow when he returned this year. He came back remarkably quickly from the surgery; just under 14 months is easily the fastest that I've heard of for TJ. So if he was compensating the missed 3 or 4 starts in Aug are not that big a deal from an injury perspective (unless it's stays in his head and he continues to do so). If it's an entirely new injury then it's a very real concern going forward. He could be the elite Nomar performer who's strung to tight physically to maintain his performance. My money is on the compensation angle... and I'd be willing to wait a year and even miss out on a deal to see how he responds in 2016 to be sure.

MiamiBoy77
12-08-2015, 03:49 PM
Two strong rumors have surfaced around Fernandez. First, the Dodgers were asked for Seager and Urias to headline their package. Second, teams have reportedly been asked for 5-6 prospects with at least two of the players either MLB or MLB-ready. Even without getting into the specifics of the Sox' system that is a pretty steep price.

Looking specifically at the Sox we're probably talking about a package that starts with Moncada (Seager equiv) and Espinoza (Urias equiv). That's a rough guess because Seager (#1) and Urias (#4) were both top five MLB prospects at midseason and had progressed to MLB at 21 and AAA at 18 respectively. By contrast, neither of those top two specs from the Sox has yet moved past A-ball (though Moncada seems to have been deliberately slowed in order to smooth his adjustment to the US). If you were exceptionally lucky you might be able to get them to bite on Castillo as an MLB-ready complementary piece and Marrero for a starting middle infielder. That's probably wishful thinking, though, dealing pieces we're inclined to give away. Recently acquired Elias might still interest them along with JBJ rather than Castillo. Maybe Austin Rei as a throw-in to help their receiving corps. Without getting too carried away with any particular player in the package that seems far too expensive a price to pay for a SP entering his arb years and Boras as his agent. Since you already said "any hitter not named Moncada" I would assume that you would agree.


I won't deny that there is an element of truth to this. There is at least one question both sides of the equation, however. On the Fernandez side there is a reasonable question about whether or not his past performance is any indication of the future. The injury history, at least the potential fear-factor of it, could alter his approach if it does not actually bite him down the line. On the Sox' side, the question is also around how much the (recent) past is an indication of the future for prospect growth. We've moved from a highly analytical group to an old-school eye-test/scouting guy and combined that with three last place finishes in four years (hence, higher talent salted through the system). We've also finally added some legitimate international prospects. At least for the short term there seems to be a good reason to think that the new crop of players is actually different than the past.


I agree with AI on this. Dombroski mentioned that the extraordinary price of SPs was the reason they moved in the direction of signing Price rather than trading. That's why we don't go "all out" here -- at least in this way. I'd rather send a lesser package for a #2A like Salazar/Carasco.



I agree that there is cause for concern but the reference to innings pitched is a little absurd. His TJ occurred about six weeks into the 2014 season and that robbed him of both the remainder of that season and half of the next (first game back was at the start of July). OF COURSE he was going to have a low IP total for the last two years.

The only reasonable question, IMO, is whether the shoulder issue this August was "fruit of the poison tree" or an entirely new issue. It would not surprise me if he was compensating for the elbow when he returned this year. He came back remarkably quickly from the surgery; just under 14 months is easily the fastest that I've heard of for TJ. So if he was compensating the missed 3 or 4 starts in Aug are not that big a deal from an injury perspective (unless it's stays in his head and he continues to do so). If it's an entirely new injury then it's a very real concern going forward. He could be the elite Nomar performer who's strung to tight physically to maintain his performance. My money is on the compensation angle... and I'd be willing to wait a year and even miss out on a deal to see how he responds in 2016 to be sure.

This, sir, is a fantastic response. Well done.

If the Marlins asked for something like Moncada/Owens/Jbj/Plus then I would probably have to say no. I think Moncada is a very special talent, just like Jose. However, I would be okay sending a package of Devers/JBJ/Espinoza/Brian Johnson/Marrero/Rei (the 6 players you mentioned, 3 in JBJ/BJ/Marrero who could be in the majors soon if not immediately).

I just think if our doctors clear him, a rotation of Price/Fernandez/Rodriguez/Porcello/Buchholz with a back end bullpen of Smith/Uehara/Tazawa/Kimbrel is one that can win multiple world series.

Even with giving up all 6 above, we still have a deep farm system and another high draft pick coming this year.

AI
12-08-2015, 03:57 PM
People like me?? You know absolutely nothing about me. That is a little ridiculous. Taking personal shots just because I feel we should trade for a certain player?

We will see how these prospects turn out. This has been a 1 page conversation, man. No need to get so heated. "Why is this so hard to understand?" Why is it so hard for you to understand that this is a forum, where fans of a team talk about things. You disagree, okay. But no need to throw out my thought. Last time I checked, neither of us are inside the front office. What you said is just as much of an opinion as what I said.

I simply answered to your reply to my original post. You said "We signed Price why not go all out?" which is why I made the tunnel vision comment. And yes, this is a forum, you have an opinion, and if I don't agree with said opinion, I'll state why which is exactly what I did. No need to take things personal.

AI
12-08-2015, 04:42 PM
As an alternative to Fernandez, who seems to be the hot ticket, there are guys who we could arguably get for much less that could be very solid acquisitions for us. I think Alex Cobb presents a very good buy-low option for us. You could also expand the deal and try to pry away a bullpen piece like Jake McGee, who would give us a power arm from the left side, something we currently don't have.

ruckus16969
12-08-2015, 05:58 PM
I like Carasco allot.

MiamiBoy77
12-08-2015, 06:12 PM
I like both Cobb and Carrasco. Could add Shelby Miller and Teheran to that list.

ruckus16969
12-08-2015, 06:15 PM
After looking at the numbers Salazar seems like he would be better. He is younger. Has way more team control. But he would probably cost way more

-Lavigne43-
12-08-2015, 06:55 PM
I think it's very naive to think the Marlins would agree to a deal without Mookie/Xander being in it. It would just end up opening another hole on our major league roster. Dombrowski has proven to be bluntly honest about the teams plans for acquisitions, and the explanation for that strategy. He said explicitly that the reason they chose to sign Price instead of trading for a young SP is because any trade for a young SP would require opening holes on the major league roster. I believe it was Speier who said that every team they talked to for a controlled young SP would not do a deal without Mookie/Xander being in it. You all vastly underestimate Fernandez's trade value.

ruckus16969
12-08-2015, 09:24 PM
I think we could get it done with those guys. The Marlins will probably start around there. Doesn't mean we are going to send them what they ask us right off the rip.

I would have to think that one of our top 3 guys in Moncada Espinoza and Devers than probably JBJ. Then Owens or Johnson. Maybe Kelly And probably Swihart or Vasquez.

If they got offered 4 of those guys I think they would bite and be happy too.

Let's say Moncada is off limits

SO
Espinoza
Owens
JBJ
Vasquez
Marrero
Kelly

That offer would get it done. Maybe even subtract a piece from it. I'm not for this by any means.

This is over 25 years of control of quality players. 5 guys that could step right onto there mag or league roster.

The only reason I think your wrong is because we are so deep in youth.

AI
12-08-2015, 09:38 PM
Can we please close this thread? It's giving me a headache. :laugh2:

Fla.SticKy
12-08-2015, 09:50 PM
Doesn't matter what package you guys throw together, it's gonna be to much. I don't think we should deplete the farm for him. Fact is, Moncada, Betts, or Xander will have to probably be involved. I honestly think we need #2 but we definitely should go another route. If things pan out, this team and farm can make us really good for a long time.

AI
12-08-2015, 10:33 PM
Looking at the type of package Atlanta got for Shelby Miller, and what Miami was asking for in talks with the D-Backs...


Hearing that #Marlins had deal working with D-Backs: Jose Fernandez for Corbin, Swanson and 3 others -- until Zona landed Shelby Miller.

A similar package from us would be E-Rod, Moncada and 3 more prospects. Thanks, but no thanks.

AI
12-08-2015, 10:55 PM
For #Dodgers to land Jose Fernandez from #Marlins hearing it would take Urias, Seager, Pederson and two more. #WinterMeetings

Red Sox equivalent: Espinoza, Moncada, Benintendi and two more.


Heard #Marlins #Dbacks were discussion Jose for Corbin, Inciarte, Blair, Swanson, Drury.

Red Sox equivalent: E-Rod, JBJ, Kopech, Moncada and Devers.

You guys still want to trade for Jose?

Bo Sox Fan
12-08-2015, 11:29 PM
A big reason Price signed here is because the farm is flush with talent for years, he said so himself in his introduction.

I doubt we want to ruffle his feathers already by blowing it up.

RedSoxtober
12-09-2015, 01:53 AM
Red Sox equivalent: Espinoza, Moncada, Benintendi and two more.



Red Sox equivalent: E-Rod, JBJ, Kopech, Moncada and Devers.

You guys still want to trade for Jose?

That's batshit crazy stuff right there.

randyisgoinsolo
12-09-2015, 11:14 AM
I say wait until he's a free agent he'll be 26 by then. Why overpay for someone who has an injury history and an agent that doesn't always like to extend his players?

AI
12-09-2015, 01:23 PM
One thing that, to my surprise, still hasn't been mentioned, is that whoever acquires Fernandez will get a SP who will be on an innings limit for 2 out of the 3 years that they have him under control.

ruckus16969
12-09-2015, 01:58 PM
Looking at the type of package Atlanta got for Shelby Miller, and what Miami was asking for in talks with the D-Backs...



A similar package from us would be E-Rod, Moncada and 3 more prospects. Thanks, but no thanks.

I'd have to pass.

RedSoxtober
12-09-2015, 05:31 PM
I believe it was Speier who said that every team they talked to for a controlled young SP would not do a deal without Mookie/Xander being in it. You all vastly underestimate Fernandez's trade value.

I suggested Espinoza/Moncada to headline as the closest things we had to the request for Seager/Urias from the Dodgers because I was focused primarily on aligning prospects. However, both Mookie and Xander could can play an up-the-middle IF (or OF) position with a potential premium bat. Mookie exceeded rookie limits in 2014 but the amount of time prior to callups (when the service time clock pauses) was fairly short so he's still got 5yrs of service time left and would probably be a bit more desirable and easily slides in where Seager fits. E-Rod over Espinoza may be in the eye of the beholder and somewhat dependent on whether they want players closer to MLB.

If the Fish asked also for Pederson as one report suggested? At least JBJ if they're not willing to wait on Benintendi.

Whether you're looking for E-Rod/Mookie/JBJ/+2 or Espinoza/Moncada/Benintendi/+2 matters little to me. It reminds me of the Johan Santana sweepstakes when the Twins wanted Clay or Lester, Masterson, and a few more. None of the prices are remotely worth the return.

Corey
12-09-2015, 11:43 PM
Boston is always going to have the ability to shell out in free agency. There's no need to mortage the farm for a kid that has already had TJ and hasn't pitched big innings either of the last two years.

If you're going to trade top end prospects, guys who project to be everyday players in the near future (or already), it better be for a sure thing that you know can put you over the top.

We have the benefit of having a big payroll with almost unlimited resources in terms of spending. It makes no sense for us to go after him, especially after Price.

RedSoxtober
12-10-2015, 01:09 PM
Boston is always going to have the ability to shell out in free agency. There's no need to mortage the farm for a kid that has already had TJ and hasn't pitched big innings either of the last two years.
I don't disagree with the sentiment but, again, critiquing Fernandez for low innings totals the last two years is stupid. The surgery and recovery occurred DURING those two seasons (May 2014 surgery -- July 2015 return) so of course his totals are going to be low.

ruckus16969
12-11-2015, 04:27 AM
I don't think the Fish where interested in moving him. They where gauging interest. The price they were asking is absurd.

Although makes me think that Stanton must be rip ship. Ownership sold him this big story about how they are going to spend to put a winning team on the field and a year after he signs they are shopping the 2nd best player on the team. Ridiculous really.

ruckus16969
12-11-2015, 04:31 AM
But I would "consider" trading 2 more of our top 5 prospects and whatever it's takes for filler pieces to put our team over the top. Be it a big time bat or another really good pitcher. I'd much rather use the guys who may or may not become good mlb players to get very good mlb players

AI
12-11-2015, 12:49 PM
“We thought we might be able to piece something together with the Red Sox,” said a Marlins official. “With ERod (Eduardo Rodriguez), Mookie Betts, Christian Vazquez, Yoan Moncada and another pitcher I thought we had something that might work.” Why not?

Close thread. Wow the Marlins are crazy.

Station 13
12-11-2015, 01:22 PM
those fish, cray cray

homie564
12-11-2015, 03:30 PM
:laugh::laugh:

j-bay
12-11-2015, 03:43 PM
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Qw9S7KLfCrs
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=O3id-Fb8ooY

homie564
12-11-2015, 03:47 PM
That is such a joke "we thought we might have something that might work", yeah no **** Sherlock :laugh2: that front office is on disco biscuits

Polish Post
12-11-2015, 04:53 PM
Fernandez has his flaws, but he's the real deal. I'd give up E Rod, JBJ, Castillo, Moncada, Vazquez and a pitching prospect of their choice. I've grown tired over the years, seeing the prospects heralded as the future, only to see injury or ineffectiveness rob us one by one of their promise. I say get the guy who is a stud at the MLB level. Win now.

papipapsmanny
12-11-2015, 08:42 PM
Most I give up is Espinoza, Devers, Owens, Marrero, and Vazquez for him

AI
12-11-2015, 09:21 PM
Most I give up is Espinoza, Devers, Owens, Marrero, and Vazquez for him

Shall we throw in the rights to Henry's soccer club in as well?

papipapsmanny
12-11-2015, 10:12 PM
Shall we throw in the rights to Henry's soccer club in as well?

Marrero has no future here and looks like a defensive replacement at best in late inning situations. Owens is a potential 3 starter (which we have a log Jam of). Vazquez is coming off a major injury and is an everyday catcher if you accept his probably sub .310 wOBA.

Devers and Espinoza are the prize for Miami. Espinoza is purely projection at this point. Devers has some substance but still a good amount of projection at this point as well

Devers and Espinoza at this point have just as much potential of becoming nothing as they do of becoming what many hope they will.

It is a risk I am willing to take at this point for a guy like Fernandez.

Getting Fernandez all while protecting Swihart, Betts, Bogaerts, E-Rod, and keeping other valuable prospects such as Moncada, Benintendi, Kopech, Travis, and Chavis, with a 12 pick coming soon. I'd do that deal

Is it an overpay... perhaps but that is usually the case when going for players like Fernandez when they are 23

bagwell368
12-11-2015, 11:21 PM
Specs are overrated, but this package is just an "ask" IMO. Ignore this sort of "deal", counter if interested.

papipapsmanny
12-11-2015, 11:45 PM
Specs are overrated, but this package is just an "ask" IMO. Ignore this sort of "deal", counter if interested.

well hopefully or the GM was on acid.

Betts for Fernandez is a deal both sides think about, but for them to ask for Betts Plus Plus is ridiculous.

RedSoxtober
12-12-2015, 12:37 AM
Vazquez is coming off a major injury and is an everyday catcher if you accept his probably sub .310 wOBA.

...

It is a risk I am willing to take at this point for a guy like Fernandez.

Vazquez "is coming off a major injury" but Fernandez is apparently not? I guess you just see what you want to see in cases like this.

MasterWok
12-12-2015, 03:50 AM
Why does it have to be specified ?

Fla.SticKy
12-12-2015, 04:55 AM
Close thread. Wow the Marlins are crazy.
Sweet Jesus, they lost all rational thinking with this horse **** of a so called deal. SMH

ruckus16969
12-12-2015, 07:05 AM
Most I give up is Espinoza, Devers, Owens, Marrero, and Vazquez for him

That's a huge package lol. But I'd do it. I'd like to swap out Devers if possible

ruckus16969
12-12-2015, 07:08 AM
Vazquez "is coming off a major injury" but Fernandez is apparently not? I guess you just see what you want to see in cases like this.

Fernandez is a bit more proven than Vasquez bud

Green_Monster
12-12-2015, 09:56 AM
Fernandez is a bit more proven than Vasquez bud

That does not change the fact that he's coming off a major injury.

AI
12-12-2015, 11:17 AM
Nothing like giving up 25+ years of control for 3 years of a pitcher with a serious injury history, a bad attitude and a douchebag for an agent (Boras). Not to mention, he'll be on an innings limit for 2/3 seasons we have him under control.

BGeer091
12-12-2015, 11:22 AM
Peter Abraham reported that Miami didn't want all of those players. Just a combo of them.

I guess my question is this. Is Fernandez going to still be a 2.5 era guy in the American League??

Station 13
12-12-2015, 11:40 AM
Peter Abraham didn't report anything. He quote exactly what Gammon said.

BGeer091
12-12-2015, 11:48 AM
Peter Abraham didn't report anything. He quote exactly what Gammon said.

Check again. Look at his twitter

RedSoxtober
12-12-2015, 12:17 PM
Fernandez is a bit more proven than Vasquez bud

Fernandez' TJ surgery was just as "significant" as Vazquez bud.

papipapsmanny
12-12-2015, 03:23 PM
Vazquez "is coming off a major injury" but Fernandez is apparently not? I guess you just see what you want to see in cases like this.

Not at all. Huge difference between a guy who has proven to be an ACE and has proven that he has healed from it and can still produce at the same level

Compared to Vazquez whose is still injured, and has had some set backs for a guy whose potential is a borderline starter.

That's just the way it is, not "what I want to see"

MiamiBoy77
12-13-2015, 06:47 AM
Most I give up is Espinoza, Devers, Owens, Marrero, and Vazquez for him

This seems about right, I would even throw in Rusney and I think the Marlins should be more than happy with that. They won't be, but they should.

RedSoxtober
12-13-2015, 02:50 PM
Not at all. Huge difference between a guy who has proven to be an ACE and has proven that he has healed from it and can still produce at the same level

Compared to Vazquez whose is still injured, and has had some set backs for a guy whose potential is a borderline starter.

That's just the way it is, not "what I want to see"

When he's pitched a full season I'll agree that he has proven to be healthy. However, when he returns from an injury just as significant as Vazquez and misses three weeks after only a month? No, he's not yet proven that he's clear IMO. If you think differently, good for you.

Vazquez has not had any set backs in his recovery BTW. What was termed a "set back" in the papers was only the loss of opportunity to play in winter ball because the club he was going to play with had folded. IMO it was an intentional overstatement to grab views.

GrkGawdofWalkz
12-14-2015, 09:28 AM
First off, can we agree that Fernandez is going to cost way too much to whomever he goes. He costs the Shelby Miller deal and then some. It just does not make sense. He's also not completely healthy coming off TJ surgery in late 2013. I would love to acquire him because when he's healthy he's one of the top five pitchers in baseball and is only 23. Personally, Betts is off limits in any discussion as is Bogaerts which eliminates one of the ready MLB pieces their looking for. He probably gets dealt in July.

ruckus16969
12-14-2015, 02:54 PM
Hypothetically who would you guys want. . ..

Jose Fernandez or Felix Hernandez

homie564
12-14-2015, 04:19 PM
Hypothetically who would you guys want. . ..

Jose Fernandez or Felix Hernandez

Fernandez without question... But not at the cost. Not all that interested in King Felix.

RedSoxtober
12-15-2015, 04:45 PM
Vazquez, after a bit of an odyssey to find a team in the Puerto Rican Winter League with whom he could play this winter, has been performing well as a DH for Santurce. Entering Tuesday, he was showing his characteristic high-contact ability, hitting .305/.333/.356 in 16 games for Santurce. Over the weekend, Vazquez was named the MVP of the league’s All-Star Game on the strength of a couple hits, a walk, and three RBIs.Speier

homie564
12-15-2015, 06:34 PM
.689 OPS is still a bit worrisome

RedSoxtober
12-15-2015, 07:09 PM
It'd place him right in the middle of the pack for all catchers with 300 more more PA. Not spectacular but certainly enough to make it in MLB with defense as good as his.

Bo Sox Fan
12-15-2015, 07:10 PM
.689 OPS is still a bit worrisome

The oppositions inability to create offence and run on him is also worrisome. Not for Boston of course.

It's nice to have a younger David Ross / Ryan Hanigan type for literally free against the big market budget for the next 5+ years.