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View Full Version : Is Steph Curry the new "Best player on the planet"



nickdymez
12-03-2015, 03:14 PM
He's playing some of the best basketball I've ever seen, all while winning championships and league MVP's. Also putting up historic numbers in the process.

Discuss...

lamzoka
12-03-2015, 03:19 PM
Yes, and its not even debatable.

jerellh528
12-03-2015, 03:28 PM
Kd is still up there.

Gibby23
12-03-2015, 03:33 PM
He has been since last year. Even better this year.

Hawkeye15
12-03-2015, 03:38 PM
Yes, he has pushed himself ahead of the other elite. The most unstoppable force I have seen since Jordan.

AIRMAR72
12-03-2015, 03:49 PM
yes, he has pushed himself ahead of the other elite. The most unstoppable force i have seen since jordan. exactly

blahblahyoutoo
12-03-2015, 03:50 PM
his size hurts him on defense but he is definitely by far the best offensive player of dare I say all time.
his ball handling, passing, decision making, finishing around the rim, and of course outside shooting make him the biggest threat.

blahblahyoutoo
12-03-2015, 03:51 PM
Yes, he has pushed himself ahead of the other elite. The most unstoppable force I have seen since Jordan.

his ball handling and outside shooting are far better than MJ's at any point in his career. the only thing jordan has over curry is dunks and defense.

rapjuicer06
12-03-2015, 03:55 PM
his ball handling and outside shooting are far better than MJ's at any point in his career. the only thing jordan has over curry is dunks and defense.

I disagree. Jordan had one of the best back to the basket games of all-time. Curry doesn't come close to that.

bucketss
12-03-2015, 03:57 PM
2 titles > 1





;)

Scoots
12-03-2015, 04:05 PM
MJ is irrelevant to this thread.

Is Curry the top player in the NBA today? Yes. Is it a huge gap? No, but it's not tiny either.

chi-townlove1
12-03-2015, 04:16 PM
Stop with the MJ comparisons. Just stop. He's not even better than Lebron or Kobe at their peaks. But as an offensive player, he may be the most unstoppable force I have ever seen in my 23 years.

Tony_Starks
12-03-2015, 04:18 PM
He already was last year but this year he's making it absolutely undeniable.

blahblahyoutoo
12-03-2015, 04:20 PM
I disagree. Jordan had one of the best back to the basket games of all-time. Curry doesn't come close to that.

sorry, forgot about post up game, and yes MJ's is far superior.
Offensively speaking;
MJ better at post up, dunking
Curry better at shooting, ball handling
Too close to tell: passing, finishing around the rim (not counting dunks)

nastynice
12-03-2015, 04:25 PM
I guess at the moment he is, but imo to say "best player on the planet", or just "best player", really has to take longevity into account. Curry's been doing it for a season and a quarter, I think he needs to keep doing it for a little while longer. IMO, at this point in time, that title is still lebron's. Just the way it really took multiple years for me to give that title from kobe to lebron, same with giving it from lebron to whoever else.

nastynice
12-03-2015, 04:29 PM
sorry, forgot about post up game, and yes MJ's is far superior.
Offensively speaking;
MJ better at post up, dunking
Curry better at shooting, ball handling
To close to tell: passing, finishing around the rim (not counting dunks)

I would give passing to curry. This boy is ON POINT!

Hawkeye15
12-03-2015, 04:30 PM
his ball handling and outside shooting are far better than MJ's at any point in his career. the only thing jordan has over curry is dunks and defense.

what I mean is, everyone in the building knows what Jordan was going to do, and what Curry is going to do. And there is nothing you can do to stop it from happening. Their games don't resemble each others at all, I simply meant Curry, like Jordan before him, can do anything he wishes on the basketball court with the ball in his hands.

nickdymez
12-03-2015, 04:43 PM
what I mean is, everyone in the building knows what Jordan was going to do, and what Curry is going to do. And there is nothing you can do to stop it from happening. Their games don't resemble each others at all, I simply meant Curry, like Jordan before him, can do anything he wishes on the basketball court with the ball in his hands.

I agree with the first statement you made in this thread. Curry is unbelievable

tredigs
12-03-2015, 05:08 PM
I feel like it's Durant who can change this narrative, not LBJ. It's been multiple years now that Lebron has not been at his peak level on a night in/night out basis, and that's pretty important to me when ranking players. I already had KD above LBJ before his injuries started, and watching him this year, he hasn't slowed down a bit. Just needs to stay on the court (obviously priority #1 for anybody who wants to keep/grow their rank).

blahblahyoutoo
12-03-2015, 05:11 PM
what I mean is, everyone in the building knows what Jordan was going to do, and what Curry is going to do. And there is nothing you can do to stop it from happening. Their games don't resemble each others at all, I simply meant Curry, like Jordan before him, can do anything he wishes on the basketball court with the ball in his hands.
right but you can still break down their individual skill sets and it's pretty clear between those two who was better at a particular one of those skills.

Hawkeye15
12-03-2015, 05:21 PM
right but you can still break down their individual skill sets and it's pretty clear between those two who was better at a particular one of those skills.

you are missing my point. They are both unstoppable offensive machines, obviously in different ways. But you can't stop Curry. The only way to stop Curry, it to build a wall around him, and he will gladly defer to his awesome teammates.

The dude pulled up from 30 and made it look like a layup last night. Twice. Who the hell can do that?

tredigs
12-03-2015, 05:28 PM
you are missing my point. They are both unstoppable offensive machines, obviously in different ways. But you can't stop Curry. The only way to stop Curry, it to build a wall around him, and he will gladly defer to his awesome teammates.

The dude pulled up from 30 and made it look like a layup last night. Twice. Who the hell can do that?

I remember some coach did that to him at Davidson because he didn't think he had the talent to stop him 1v1. Curry just ended up passing all game to wide open teammates and they won by 30. He was the nations leading scorer but had 0 points lol.

sheesh
12-03-2015, 05:28 PM
To be honest I think LeBron and KD are still the best players in the league.

DanG
12-03-2015, 05:45 PM
Yes he is the best by a significant margin. Usually when the media crowns someone as 'the new best player' LeBron always has an answer even in the regular season, but right now he doesn't seem to have that in him anymore.

I just can't wait for OKC-GSW in the WCF. Shame the East is as lame as always. PG with his mediocre supporting cast will probably face LeBron and get swept.

nickdymez
12-03-2015, 05:57 PM
To be honest I think LeBron and KD are still the best players in the league.

Why

Saddletramp
12-03-2015, 06:17 PM
I guess at the moment he is, but imo to say "best player on the planet", or just "best player", really has to take longevity into account. Curry's been doing it for a season and a quarter, I think he needs to keep doing it for a little while longer. IMO, at this point in time, that title is still lebron's.

I agree with this. But if I had the top pick in a re-draft today (of actual franchises, not fantasy), I'd probably pick Curry and build around him. The only thing causing my pause would be how much the system has to do with his dominance, but his ball handling and hitting those crazy threes aren't as predicated on a system (getting open, sure, but I see wide open threes missed a lot this year :cough:Harden:cough: :cough:Kobe:cough:


Just the way it really took multiple years for me to give that title from kobe to lebron, same with giving it from lebron to whoever else.

I disagree with this, though. I'm not knocking Kobe, he was great. But I never thought he stood out as big as LeBron has. There's a difference between saying a guy is the best player in the NBA and saying he's the best in the world (even if by default the best player in the NBA is the best in the world). LeBron took his team to deep runs and a few titles while Kobe led his team to deep runs a few more titles and a few inconsequential years. When the talent and coaching is there, both guys flourished. When it wasn't, one guy did. I'm wondering if Curry would be more like LeBron or more like Kobe.


Man, the Kobephiles are going to bash me for that and I'm assuming tredigs will slap me around for it, too.

mngopher35
12-03-2015, 06:21 PM
It was a nice run for Lebron (not many other players have been considered the best 5+ years) but at this point I would say yes. Curry is just at another level right now than anyone else playing, it is unreal. One of the best starts to a season we have ever seen and he's improved from last year where he won MVP, FMVP and was arguably the best player.

nickdymez
12-03-2015, 06:53 PM
I agree with this. But if I had the top pick in a re-draft today (of actual franchises, not fantasy), I'd probably pick Curry and build around him. The only thing causing my pause would be how much the system has to do with his dominance, but his ball handling and hitting those crazy threes aren't as predicated on a system (getting open, sure, but I see wide open threes missed a lot this year :cough:Harden:cough: :cough:Kobe:cough:



I disagree with this, though. I'm not knocking Kobe, he was great. But I never thought he stood out as big as LeBron has. There's a difference between saying a guy is the best player in the NBA and saying he's the best in the world (even if by default the best player in the NBA is the best in the world). LeBron took his team to deep runs and a few titles while Kobe led his team to deep runs a few more titles and a few inconsequential years. When the talent and coaching is there, both guys flourished. When it wasn't, one guy did. I'm wondering if Curry would be more like LeBron or more like Kobe.


Man, the Kobephiles are going to bash me for that and I'm assuming tredigs will slap me around for it, too.

Kobe took a pretty bad team to the brink of the second round in a deep west. But whatever, im starting to see now that most people really were traumatized by Kobe and choose to block out all of his ridiculous accomplishments and downplay his dominance.

Scoots
12-03-2015, 07:34 PM
The past and the "peak" are irrelevant. The best on the planet is on the planet now. I'll take the top 5 guys from the NBA now for a pickup game over the best 5 all time. Hell, Wilt is dead, he'd be constantly getting 3 second calls.

On the planet means now ... today, not 3, 5, 20, or 40 years ago.

Scoots
12-03-2015, 07:36 PM
Kobe took a pretty bad team to the brink of the second round in a deep west. But whatever, im starting to see now that most people really were traumatized by Kobe and choose to block out all of his ridiculous accomplishments and downplay his dominance.

Are you arguing that the ancient Kobe with no wheels is in the discussion for the best player in the NBA?

Saddletramp
12-03-2015, 07:55 PM
The past and the "peak" are irrelevant. The best on the planet is on the planet now. I'll take the top 5 guys from the NBA now for a pickup game over the best 5 all time. Hell, Wilt is dead, he'd be constantly getting 3 second calls.

On the planet means now ... today, not 3, 5, 20, or 40 years ago.

Not sure where you've gotten this. No one is saying anything about retired guys (although that 3 Second Wilt line is pretty good; I lol'ed). But a guy that is/was the Best Player on the Planet doesn't lose that crown easily to a (past) good player that's playing at an incredible level on a new system highlighting his skills and surrounded by a stacked team. The way it's going, no question Curry will get the crown (he might already have it) but some believe it takes a little bit more time. In me saying that I'd pick him in a real world redraft, I'm already at least on the fence and leaning.

sheesh
12-03-2015, 07:58 PM
LeBron is a tank.

If I absolutely need a money bucket I want KD.

Saddletramp
12-03-2015, 07:59 PM
Are you arguing that the ancient Kobe with no wheels is in the discussion for the best player in the NBA?

No, he's not. He was arguing my point that I didn't think he was the undisputed top player in the world (even if he technically was) before LeBron. Not going to argue with him because I really don't care and that convo never goes anywhere anyway.

Bostonjorge
12-03-2015, 08:10 PM
LeBron is a tank.

If I absolutely need a money bucket I want KD.
Curry already little brother Lebron and
Westbrook is little brothering KD.

bgdreton
12-03-2015, 08:25 PM
Ill leave this here

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/stephen-curry-is-the-revolution/

Hawkeye15
12-03-2015, 08:53 PM
Are you arguing that the ancient Kobe with no wheels is in the discussion for the best player in the NBA?

no, haha, you misread his post

KnicksorBust
12-03-2015, 11:16 PM
To me he has already answered that question with his Championship. Lebron people won't be swayed until he does it again. A lot of people don't like to switch jockeys after one race. Understandable but he was better last year and there is absolutely no reason why Curry would get worse or Lebron would get better. Lebron is still #2 but the torch has been passed.

I am more interested to see if Curry can continue playing at this high a level because his current season is VERY interesting from a historical standpoint.

nastynice
12-04-2015, 02:48 AM
Ill leave this here

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/stephen-curry-is-the-revolution/

lol, holy ****. He truly is breaking new ground as a scorer, that is just insane. Its almost unfair, lol. I hope he keeps it up, not only keeps it up, but the trend keeps going up and up. Its pretty crazy how good he is, I never woulda thought he'd get THIS good. I felt like that year we lost in the 2nd round, that he was really good all star material, and I was happy with that. Thought he still had some room for improvement, but never did I think this much! What a beautiful surprise this past two years have been!

And his passing has been under the radar too. Cross court passes, one handed passes, bounce pass, everything, its almost always automatically right in stride or shooting stroke. The guy has really taken his game to another level

joedaheights
12-04-2015, 04:18 AM
Yes, he has pushed himself ahead of the other elite. The most unstoppable force I have seen since Jordan.

Ever hear of a guy named Shaquille O'neal?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZQOCXGFosE

Watch that. He's a thoroughbred. Jordan was a thoroughbred. Bryant was to a lesser extent.. Lebron is. These are guys who have all the skill and can just dunk all over you if you make them. In O'neal's case, he was so dominant it was insane, not much skill needed.. though his skill is underrated.

What Curry is doing is a testament to how weak the league is. The Bulls are #2 in the east... I'm a Bulls fan, and I can tell you that Knicks and Cavs teams that lost to Jordan's Bulls would pistol whip these Bulls.

Let's see, Dirk is 55 years old and he and Deron Williams are #4 in the West. Yeah, the league is blown out...

Curry isn't anything like O'neal or Jordan or a lot of other guys. He's a shorter, better passing Reggie Miller if Miller was on a loaded team in a very weak league. Period.

PurpleJesus
12-04-2015, 04:20 AM
Absolutely. The way he is playing now has surpassed Lebron in his prime, IMO. If he plays this way in the playoffs for the next 6-8 years...

well, people hate when others mention Jordan in the same sentence as current players, so I will just stop now.

tredigs
12-04-2015, 04:55 AM
Ever hear of a guy named Shaquille O'neal?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZQOCXGFosE

Watch that. He's a thoroughbred. Jordan was a thoroughbred. Bryant was to a lesser extent.. Lebron is. These are guys who have all the skill and can just dunk all over you if you make them. In O'neal's case, he was so dominant it was insane, not much skill needed.. though his skill is underrated.

What Curry is doing is a testament to how weak the league is. The Bulls are #2 in the east... I'm a Bulls fan, and I can tell you that Knicks and Cavs teams that lost to Jordan's Bulls would pistol whip these Bulls.

Let's see, Dirk is 55 years old and he and Deron Williams are #4 in the West. Yeah, the league is blown out...

Curry isn't anything like O'neal or Jordan or a lot of other guys. He's a shorter, better passing Reggie Miller if Miller was on a loaded team in a very weak league. Period.

Yes Jody, a "weak league" that has more advanced offensive + defensive schemes than ever before (obviously), and is more saturated with athletic freaks than at any time prior (if Westbrook was a 90's point, I am positive that you would ignorantly point to him as an example of a PG that would dominate Curry on both ends, however we live in reality and know that isn't the case). Comparing Reggie to Curry is a sorry joke, as are all of your posts.

More-Than-Most
12-04-2015, 05:23 AM
Absolutely. The way he is playing now has surpassed Lebron in his prime, IMO. If he plays this way in the playoffs for the next 6-8 years...

well, people hate when others mention Jordan in the same sentence as current players, so I will just stop now.

No No he hasn't surpassed an Mvp and what shoulda been the defensive player of the year in his prime... Lebron in his prime was close to curry offensively and undeniably better defensively... Just stop.

More-Than-Most
12-04-2015, 05:24 AM
Curry is by far the best player and nobody not even me can deny that... The dude is a video game... You expect him to slow down at some point on this season or have a bad stretch but the way he shoots I dont think he will... That 28 point quarter was the best thing I have seen in a long time.

dnl123
12-04-2015, 05:27 AM
Most dominant player the game right now. He has snatched that mantle from Lebron even though Lebron's versatility on defense still makes him so incredibly valuable. Curry needs to keep up this level of performance for a while before I put him in a category with guys that some of you have mentioned (MJ, Lebron,etc.). I would estimate that he will win MVP this year and I would bet he will win the award at least one more time. That would put him in some elite company. Let's not count the chickens before they hatch. He is 27 and will be 28 in March. I'd say he has at least 3-5 years of top tier basketball left in him which I'm excited to watch.

More-Than-Most
12-04-2015, 05:27 AM
Yes Jody, a "weak league" that has more advanced offensive + defensive schemes than ever before (obviously), and is more saturated with athletic freaks than at any time prior (if Westbrook was a 90's point, I am positive that you would ignorantly point to him as an example of a PG that would dominate Curry on both ends, however we live in reality and know that isn't the case). Comparing Reggie to Curry is a sorry joke, as are all of your posts.

Its sad but this type of stuff will only get worse the better he gets... Everyone loved James early on until the second he was going to end up better then Kobe and the second people thought he might surpass the Goat... I have never seen anything like the hate players get as soon as they are close or compared to Jordan in any way shape or form... All logic just goes right out the window and the bashing begins... Curry if this continues you will hear the league is soft even though players are bigger/stronger/faster and teams are deeper esp out west.... Then if he ever even loses 1 finals even if he plays like a God in peoples minds he can never surpass Jordan.

nastynice
12-04-2015, 05:35 AM
Ever hear of a guy named Shaquille O'neal?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZQOCXGFosE

Watch that. He's a thoroughbred. Jordan was a thoroughbred. Bryant was to a lesser extent.. Lebron is. These are guys who have all the skill and can just dunk all over you if you make them. In O'neal's case, he was so dominant it was insane, not much skill needed.. though his skill is underrated.

What Curry is doing is a testament to how weak the league is. The Bulls are #2 in the east... I'm a Bulls fan, and I can tell you that Knicks and Cavs teams that lost to Jordan's Bulls would pistol whip these Bulls.

Let's see, Dirk is 55 years old and he and Deron Williams are #4 in the West. Yeah, the league is blown out...

Curry isn't anything like O'neal or Jordan or a lot of other guys. He's a shorter, better passing Reggie Miller if Miller was on a loaded team in a very weak league. Period.

lol!

I personally wouldn't even compare curry to lebron, much less jordan, but when jordan fans start getting nervous and saying this weak nonsense, it makes me wonder, is he really showing potential to reach that type of level? Why so scared?

On a serious note tho, I do like the shaq comparison, because absolutely does effect opposing defenses much the same way, just on the opposite end of the spectrum. With shaq, ALL EYES had to be on the paint, because shaq was just too unstoppable without basically having the entire team account for him. With curry, all eyes are on him as soon as he crosses the half court line, same reason, absolutely unstoppable unless the entire team accounts for him. Shaq, big and inside. Curry, small and outside.

MonroeFAN
12-04-2015, 05:41 AM
Yeah no longer a valid debate IMO. Curry has to be the best right now.

bgdreton
12-04-2015, 06:13 AM
Yes, he has pushed himself ahead of the other elite. The most unstoppable force I have seen since Jordan.

Ever hear of a guy named Shaquille O'neal?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZQOCXGFosE

Watch that. He's a thoroughbred. Jordan was a thoroughbred. Bryant was to a lesser extent.. Lebron is. These are guys who have all the skill and can just dunk all over you if you make them. In O'neal's case, he was so dominant it was insane, not much skill needed.. though his skill is underrated.

What Curry is doing is a testament to how weak the league is. The Bulls are #2 in the east... I'm a Bulls fan, and I can tell you that Knicks and Cavs teams that lost to Jordan's Bulls would pistol whip these Bulls.

Let's see, Dirk is 55 years old and he and Deron Williams are #4 in the West. Yeah, the league is blown out...

Curry isn't anything like O'neal or Jordan or a lot of other guys. He's a shorter, better passing Reggie Miller if Miller was on a loaded team in a very weak league. Period.

Are there any other excuses you want to add?

PurpleJesus
12-04-2015, 06:19 AM
No No he hasn't surpassed an Mvp and what shoulda been the defensive player of the year in his prime... Lebron in his prime was close to curry offensively and undeniably better defensively... Just stop.

How about you read things, and take them into context?

Just stop.

Kashmir13579
12-04-2015, 06:19 AM
My GF loves him

More-Than-Most
12-04-2015, 06:38 AM
How about you read things, and take them into context?

Just stop.

I think I read it perfectly fine... Right now you think he has played better than Lebron did in his prime which is false... Again Lebron was offensively unstoppable almost to the degree of curry but defensively he should have won defensive player of the year and the MVP... DEFENSE DOES MATTER... Lebron in his prime was a 2 way force.

PhillyFaninLA
12-04-2015, 07:09 AM
2 titles > 1;)


Team accomplishment not individual....if you and others can't understand that then you clearly don't understand the game and how to judge and individual

LongIslandIcedZ
12-04-2015, 09:26 AM
Right now? Absolutely. I want to see what LeBron does in the playoffs before I take his crown away, but it's Curry right now.

Tony_Starks
12-04-2015, 10:05 AM
I love the fact that Curry is so sick that people can't even hate on him yet.

I will definitely enjoy this while it last, this guy is a joy to watch. Seriously.

Scoots
12-04-2015, 10:53 AM
Not sure where you've gotten this. No one is saying anything about retired guys (although that 3 Second Wilt line is pretty good; I lol'ed). But a guy that is/was the Best Player on the Planet doesn't lose that crown easily to a (past) good player that's playing at an incredible level on a new system highlighting his skills and surrounded by a stacked team. The way it's going, no question Curry will get the crown (he might already have it) but some believe it takes a little bit more time. In me saying that I'd pick him in a real world redraft, I'm already at least on the fence and leaning.

I just think the thread is about the best today, so players who may or may not have been better in the past are irrelevant. I just don't understand how a thread about the best player today became about players who have retired or who are past their peak and who had a better peak.

Glad you liked the joke ... I had to decide if Wilt would make my all-time 5 man team or if it would be KAJ ... found myself thinking about which one could play 4 if it came to that ... just so I could use the joke :)

By the way ... I don't think Wilt makes my all-time 5 man team ... but I think Curry does if we are playing with today's rules.

Scoots
12-04-2015, 10:55 AM
no, haha, you misread his post

Actually I didn't. I'm just trying to drag this thread kicking and screaming away from yet another discussion of who was better when and keep it to today.

Hawkeye15
12-04-2015, 11:14 AM
Ever hear of a guy named Shaquille O'neal?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZQOCXGFosE

Watch that. He's a thoroughbred. Jordan was a thoroughbred. Bryant was to a lesser extent.. Lebron is. These are guys who have all the skill and can just dunk all over you if you make them. In O'neal's case, he was so dominant it was insane, not much skill needed.. though his skill is underrated.

What Curry is doing is a testament to how weak the league is. The Bulls are #2 in the east... I'm a Bulls fan, and I can tell you that Knicks and Cavs teams that lost to Jordan's Bulls would pistol whip these Bulls.

Let's see, Dirk is 55 years old and he and Deron Williams are #4 in the West. Yeah, the league is blown out...

Curry isn't anything like O'neal or Jordan or a lot of other guys. He's a shorter, better passing Reggie Miller if Miller was on a loaded team in a very weak league. Period.

who?

Vee-Rex
12-04-2015, 11:27 AM
Absolutely. The way he is playing now has surpassed Lebron in his prime, IMO. If he plays this way in the playoffs for the next 6-8 years...

well, people hate when others mention Jordan in the same sentence as current players, so I will just stop now.

off-topic question but are you in an espn fantasy football league?

On-topic: TIME TO STOP FIGHTING IT

I understand people that still believe Bron is the best in the world. But yeah, Curry's that man now. It'll take some time.

Hawkeye15
12-04-2015, 11:36 AM
off-topic question but are you in an espn fantasy football league?

On-topic: TIME TO STOP FIGHTING IT

I understand people that still believe Bron is the best in the world. But yeah, Curry's that man now. It'll take some time.

Bron was the best player in the world by 2007, but it took 2-3 years for people to realize it. It's natural

Scoots
12-04-2015, 12:05 PM
who?

hah!

Stinkyoutsider
12-04-2015, 12:31 PM
I'm not sure if he's the overall top player but offensively, I think I can go with that.

The run he's on is incredible. I figured he would be extra motivated after his apology interview and he hasn't disappointed me in the least. And with all of that, I still hear some people doubt his team today. Curry seems like he's a friendly guy on the outside, but I think he's playing angry and I love it. He's not only looking to beat people, but he's looking to destroy them in such a way to have them question if they picked the right career choice.

Usually, teams start to figure out how to stop a guy from dominating them but I don't think you can do that with Curry? He's just as good a ball handler and passer so if you trap or double him off the pick and roll, he'll still beat you. And he's open whenever he gets past the half court line too.

Hawkeye15
12-04-2015, 01:18 PM
I'm not sure if he's the overall top player but offensively, I think I can go with that.

The run he's on is incredible. I figured he would be extra motivated after his apology interview and he hasn't disappointed me in the least. And with all of that, I still hear some people doubt his team today. Curry seems like he's a friendly guy on the outside, but I think he's playing angry and I love it. He's not only looking to beat people, but he's looking to destroy them in such a way to have them question if they picked the right career choice.

Usually, teams start to figure out how to stop a guy from dominating them but I don't think you can do that with Curry? He's just as good a ball handler and passer so if you trap or double him off the pick and roll, he'll still beat you. And he's open whenever he gets past the half court line too.

Curry is a threat when he gets out of his car at the arena haha

joedaheights
12-04-2015, 01:21 PM
lol!

I personally wouldn't even compare curry to lebron, much less jordan, but when jordan fans start getting nervous and saying this weak nonsense, it makes me wonder, is he really showing potential to reach that type of level? Why so scared?

On a serious note tho, I do like the shaq comparison, because absolutely does effect opposing defenses much the same way, just on the opposite end of the spectrum. With shaq, ALL EYES had to be on the paint, because shaq was just too unstoppable without basically having the entire team account for him. With curry, all eyes are on him as soon as he crosses the half court line, same reason, absolutely unstoppable unless the entire team accounts for him. Shaq, big and inside. Curry, small and outside.

It's not nervousness it's irritation. Every time someone does something in any sport, modernists have to start acting like he's the greatest... It's such a cheap thing... Do anything and boom you're instantly the best and better than everyone who came before you.

You tell people ... This is a weak league and you show them the teams and they just don't freaking get it. The Bulls are a #2 seed and Jimmy Butler is there star. Somewhere out there players like Glen Rice, Mitch Richmond and Steve Smith are salivating over the idea of if they only played today. You realize Ton Harper in his prime was far superior to jimmy butler, right? And who is butlers team? Noah who gets months older by the hour... Gasol might as well be 45... And Derrick Rose.. A walking blubbering vagina with legs that former president George Herbert walker bush wouldn't trade his legs for. And that's a second place team in a conference??

You don't consider the difference in eras or anything else and just say "oh yeah he's just like shaq but from the outside." He's NOTHING LIKE SHAQ! And I am a Jordan fan... So I was rooting AGAINST THE LAKERS.

My god people are getting stupid. They aren't playing anyone. The west #2 spurs are mostly a team ready for the old timers game they used to have on all star weekend...

lol, please
12-04-2015, 01:56 PM
Yes, he has pushed himself ahead of the other elite. The most unstoppable force I have seen since Jordan.

Pretty much.

But why are so many people making the same thread? :confused: this is like the 3rd exact same thread topic in 3 weeks.

nickdymez
12-04-2015, 01:58 PM
Pretty much.

But why are so many people making the same thread? :confused: this is like the 3rd exact same thread topic in 3 weeks.

I didn't see the other ones.

joedaheights
12-04-2015, 02:05 PM
I've heard it all my man. "Kobe Bryant at 22 = 3 rings, Michael = 0" ... Tiger Woods was definitely going to break Jacks majors record. Even heading into last playoffs the Lebron crowd was eyeing Michael. Barry Bonds was supposedly better than Willie Mays when it turned out that Barry Bonds plus a warehouse full of cattle roids was pretty close.

Ever ask yourself why?

Michael still sells shoes and everything else more than anyone ... But he's the exception.

By and large, 99% of the time... You'll never sell more shoes, jerseys, Mountain Dew code reds, hats and everything else under the sun than you will if you convince the masses that right now is THE PLACE TO BE MORE THAN ANY MOMENT EVER. Wealthy people who own shoe companies, apparel companies and everything else.. They know that sales won't be as high if the reaction to Curry, Lebron, Duncan, Garnett, Bryant, Wade, Billups or any other champion is "yeah these guys are great but man I wish it was like it was in 84... Bird calling his teammates a bunch of women... Rambis getting clothes lined and w war ensuing?? That was great."

I'd hate to burst you guys bubble but if Jimmy butler leads a team to a ring ESPN will be sitting in a room like "okay, who is going to tweet a question comparing butler to Jordan... We can't do it this year but if we ask the Question now and he wins two more, we can just endlessly hammer away at it with mark Jackson, Reggie miller, Bob costas."

It's a script dude. They bring it out all the time.

Case in point. It was really hard to market Tim Duncan .., so hard that their hours and hours of marketing meetings could only produce "the big fundamental".

I rest my case.

Hawkeye15
12-04-2015, 02:15 PM
I've heard it all my man. "Kobe Bryant at 22 = 3 rings, Michael = 0" ... Tiger Woods was definitely going to break Jacks majors record. Even heading into last playoffs the Lebron crowd was eyeing Michael. Barry Bonds was supposedly better than Willie Mays when it turned out that Barry Bonds plus a warehouse full of cattle roids was pretty close.

Ever ask yourself why?

Michael still sells shoes and everything else more than anyone ... But he's the exception.

By and large, 99% of the time... You'll never sell more shoes, jerseys, Mountain Dew code reds, hats and everything else under the sun than you will if you convince the masses that right now is THE PLACE TO BE MORE THAN ANY MOMENT EVER. Wealthy people who own shoe companies, apparel companies and everything else.. They know that sales won't be as high if the reaction to Curry, Lebron, Duncan, Garnett, Bryant, Wade, Billups or any other champion is "yeah these guys are great but man I wish it was like it was in 84... Bird calling his teammates a bunch of women... Rambis getting clothes lined and w war ensuing?? That was great."

I'd hate to burst you guys bubble but if Jimmy butler leads a team to a ring ESPN will be sitting in a room like "okay, who is going to tweet a question comparing butler to Jordan... We can't do it this year but if we ask the Question now and he wins two more, we can just endlessly hammer away at it with mark Jackson, Reggie miller, Bob costas."

It's a script dude. They bring it out all the time.

Case in point. It was really hard to market Tim Duncan .., so hard that their hours and hours of marketing meetings could only produce "the big fundamental".

I rest my case.

What are you trying to say here, sorry?

joedaheights
12-04-2015, 02:24 PM
What are you trying to say here, sorry?

That no matter who is "right now" the media is going to push the same agenda that they are the best this or that. It's curry now... In three years it could be Jimmy butler or whoever and it will be the same stuff.

I can do the picture or the stick figure version if you need it. I cater to all I.Q. Levels...

nickdymez
12-04-2015, 02:27 PM
What are you trying to say here, sorry?

lmao. I get what hes trying to say, he just took the long way to get there. He's saying that the whole "best player on the planet" tittle and ones like it, are manipulated by ESPN and the major sports brands (NFL, NBA,NHL, etc). So whomever they deem "the greatest player on the planet" is what we get. I believe.

nycericanguy
12-04-2015, 02:33 PM
Curry is having a great run but it's 20 games... i'm sure many players have put up 32/6/5 on great efficiency for 20 games.

such a different game now too... Curry is shooting over 11 three's per game... that would NEVER have happened 20 years ago no matter how great a shooter u were.

Do people prefer this kind of play though? I feel like it minimizes players to just a defensive C and a bunch of shooters. I kind of miss the old post play. And teams would still score a ton that way...but there was more diversity vs just 3pt chucking and dunks.

tredigs
12-04-2015, 02:57 PM
The hilarious part is just knowing how much jody would be claiming that a team like OKC would absolutely own this current league if they were around in the 90's. He'd have mentioned the Westbrook name right along side Mitch Richmond, and the thought of them ever missing the post-season, even if Durant only played 30 games (just with the dominance of Westbrook + Ibaka and their freakishness alone supplemented by a 1/3 season from an All-Timer), would be scornfully laughed off as modern day media blowhardness by jod.

Yet, that just happened. In this league. That team wasn't good enough for the playoffs. The Bulls and their +1.1 win differential aren't scaring anybody, and absolutely will not maintain their standing (we're 19 games into the year mind you... there's a lot of 'noise' in the records) unless their play gets a lot better. Mavs are +0.4. Even worse example from you earlier. +/- is a much better indicator of who will eventually end up where than standings will ~19 games in.

Now, imagine if the 80's and 90's had 1/5 of the oversees talent that is currently around. Now THAT would have been an impressive situation.

tredigs
12-04-2015, 03:52 PM
Curry is having a great run but it's 20 games... i'm sure many players have put up 32/6/5 on great efficiency for 20 games.

such a different game now too... Curry is shooting over 11 three's per game... that would NEVER have happened 20 years ago no matter how great a shooter u were.

Do people prefer this kind of play though? I feel like it minimizes players to just a defensive C and a bunch of shooters. I kind of miss the old post play. And teams would still score a ton that way...but there was more diversity vs just 3pt chucking and dunks.

"Great" probably yes by Jordan, bu his level of efficiency? Nah, never been done. Honestly I could argue it's the best 20 game stretch in the history of basketball. I just saw all these stats rattled off: His 33.6 PPG per-36 minutes would be on pace for the highest ever outside of Chamberlain (just ahead of mid 80's Jordan), and his TS% is 70%. You might not like 3's, but he has 8 of them in 4 separate games (sat 3 of the 4th quarters) and 5 20+ point quarters so far this year. He's on pace to make 410 threes (most ever is himself last season at 286) on 46%, which correlates to 69% from the field. His PER is 35.1 (never done for 20 games). He has the 2nd most steals in the NBA (down 1 steal to Lowry). He also leads the NBA in paint scoring over Deandre Jordan at 66%.

Lastly, the team is 20-0 with a +15.4 margin of victory. With him on the court (685 minutes) they have a 121 offensive rating. With him off (280 minutes), they have a 103.8 Offensive rating (their D goes from 99 rating on to 103 off).

Ipso facto, the hype is warranted.

ewing
12-04-2015, 03:55 PM
yep

nycericanguy
12-04-2015, 03:56 PM
"Great" probably yes by Jordan, bu his level of efficiency? Nah, never been done. Honestly I could argue it's the best 20 game stretch in the history of basketball. I just saw all these stats rattled off: His 33.6 PPG per-36 minutes would be on pace for the highest ever outside of Chamberlain (just ahead of mid 80's Jordan), and his TS% is 70%. You might not like 3's, but he has 8 of them in 4 separate games and 5 20+ point quarters so far this year. He's on pace to make 410 threes (most ever is himself last season at 286) on 46%, which correlates to 69% from the field. His PER is 35.1 (never done for 20 games). He has the 2nd most steals in the NBA (down 1 steal to Lowry). He also leads the NBA in paint scoring over Deandre Jordan at 66%.

Lastly, the team is 20-0 with a +15.4 margin of victory. With him on the court (685 minutes) they have a 121 offensive rating. With him off (280 minutes), they have a 103.8 Offensive rating (their D goes from 99 rating on to 103 off).

Ipso facto, the hype is warranted.

not that i dont like 3's, but it's all about moderation and we;re heading down a path where literally 50% of all FG attempts might be 3's.

Again you have to look at stats in context... today's players are going to have higher TS% because of the way the 3 ball is used now... but to me that doesn't really make them better or even more efficient. it's just a different game.

i agree though this is something i've personally never seen, tho i was too young during jordan's prime.

Hawkeye15
12-04-2015, 04:00 PM
That no matter who is "right now" the media is going to push the same agenda that they are the best this or that. It's curry now... In three years it could be Jimmy butler or whoever and it will be the same stuff.

I can do the picture or the stick figure version if you need it. I cater to all I.Q. Levels...

It has been 20 years since I have seen someone as unstoppable as Curry. So no, it's not everday.

The only reason I even brought Jordan up, was to say Curry is the most unstoppable player I have seen offensively since Jordan. It was never a comparison.

Hawkeye15
12-04-2015, 04:01 PM
lmao. I get what hes trying to say, he just took the long way to get there. He's saying that the whole "best player on the planet" tittle and ones like it, are manipulated by ESPN and the major sports brands (NFL, NBA,NHL, etc). So whomever they deem "the greatest player on the planet" is what we get. I believe.

I stopped watching espn like forever ago. Like you, I make up my own mind when it comes to who is good/bad/awesome/sucks.

Hawkeye15
12-04-2015, 04:04 PM
not that i dont like 3's, but it's all about moderation and we;re heading down a path where literally 50% of all FG attempts might be 3's.

Again you have to look at stats in context... today's players are going to have higher TS% because of the way the 3 ball is used now... but to me that doesn't really make them better or even more efficient. it's just a different game.
i agree though this is something i've personally never seen, tho i was too young during jordan's prime.

you still have to make them, and nobody does it as a sheer volume weapon as Curry.

The name of the game has always been to score as many points as you can, in the possessions you are allowed. As time goes by, the people in the game are figuring out better ways to do that.

nastynice
12-04-2015, 04:09 PM
It's not nervousness it's irritation. Every time someone does something in any sport, modernists have to start acting like he's the greatest... It's such a cheap thing... Do anything and boom you're instantly the best and better than everyone who came before you.

You tell people ... This is a weak league and you show them the teams and they just don't freaking get it. The Bulls are a #2 seed and Jimmy Butler is there star. Somewhere out there players like Glen Rice, Mitch Richmond and Steve Smith are salivating over the idea of if they only played today. You realize Ton Harper in his prime was far superior to jimmy butler, right? And who is butlers team? Noah who gets months older by the hour... Gasol might as well be 45... And Derrick Rose.. A walking blubbering vagina with legs that former president George Herbert walker bush wouldn't trade his legs for. And that's a second place team in a conference??

You don't consider the difference in eras or anything else and just say "oh yeah he's just like shaq but from the outside." He's NOTHING LIKE SHAQ! And I am a Jordan fan... So I was rooting AGAINST THE LAKERS.

My god people are getting stupid. They aren't playing anyone. The west #2 spurs are mostly a team ready for the old timers game they used to have on all star weekend...

I get what ur saying, and I agree, everyone's quick with these comparisons and its stupid. The two don't even play the same position (mj and curry). But when you start saying off the wall things like the league is weak, then clearly there is something that got u trippin, cuz boy that don't make no damn sense at all. Last year the 7 seed was a 50 win team! Few years back a 48 win team (could have been 50 even) missed the playoffs. I mean we are seeing a historically great western conference for some time now, and ur saying the league is weak now?? wtf??

For a couple years now you can legitimately make a case for 6-8 teams every year being able to come out of the west. The talent is ridiculous. You get the right match up, you get that squad hitting their stride, and we've been looking at 5+ teams LEGITIMATELY contending for the finals in the west. How many teams could you say that about during jordan's time. Even take a handful of years. Rox, spurs, jazz, bulls, knicks, pacers, magic. 7 teams over a span of a handful of years, I mean hell, we had that just two years ago in the west alone, just that ONE year, ONE conference.

I get what ur saying, but to say the league is weaker now, clearly some kinda insanity taking place.

And yes, Curry can be compared to shaq in that their has never been this dominant a force seen in the league before (shaq inside, curry outside), where literally ALL FIVE defenders have to know where he is the second he steps across half court. If there has been a player like that, I clearly missed it, you're gonna have to remind me. Legacy wise, obviously Curry is nowhere near shaq, but that's not what I was trying to get at.

I honestly agree with you, I've already said its already pushing it to put him above lebron as league's best, but ur arguments just make no sense.

nycericanguy
12-04-2015, 04:14 PM
you still have to make them, and nobody does it as a sheer volume weapon as Curry.

The name of the game has always been to score as many points as you can, in the possessions you are allowed. As time goes by, the people in the game are figuring out better ways to do that.

agreed, but it's also freedom. no coach would have allowed Reggie miller to shoot 10 3's a game back then. and it's also guys practicing that shot more now that it's such a big weapon.

not discrediting curry, just saying it's a factor... gotta look at things within context.

nastynice
12-04-2015, 04:16 PM
He also leads the NBA in paint scoring over Deandre Jordan at 66%.


HAHA, wow, is this for real??

This guy Curry, man, I think he's starting to develop that killer inside him. That same killer kobe was born with. That same killer lebron started to develop his first year in miami (which unfortunately never reached its potential). Can't really say til playoffs come around, but it sure looks like it. I sure as hell hope so!!

Its like he doesn't give a ****. They're up 15, he wants to be up by 20. Theyre up 25, he wants to be up by 35. They're up 40, he wants to be up by 45. He's ****in gangsta, I love it!

tredigs
12-04-2015, 04:54 PM
not that i dont like 3's, but it's all about moderation and we;re heading down a path where literally 50% of all FG attempts might be 3's.

Again you have to look at stats in context... today's players are going to have higher TS% because of the way the 3 ball is used now... but to me that doesn't really make them better or even more efficient. it's just a different game.

i agree though this is something i've personally never seen, tho i was too young during jordan's prime.

I mean, it's not like it's a gifted shot. You still have to be able to get them off and hit them at an efficient rate for them to be a good look % wise. For Harden or Kobe or D. Rose right now they're killing their teams and their TS% with the 3 ball. If you run down the highest TS% all time, the vast majority are post players. The only 3pt specialist who sneak in there at the top are Korver last year (godly 49% 3pt shooting), next closest was Kerr in '93.

Dubs shoot the most 3's right now (and have by far the highest%), but they still use less than 1/3rd of their offensive possessions shooting them. Efficiency wise they should probably shoot more (they shoot the equivalent of 65% field goal from three, and 53% from 2), so they might ramp it up a bit more, but realistically they take every realistic 3 they can and have better suited personnel to take threes than every other team, and there's not likely to be many in the near future who can match them in that respect.

To each their own though. I know some love slow methodical post play and in/out basketball. For me, the style I'm seeing in Golden State is supremely entertaining. That said, the Rox have tied for the most 3's, and I can't watch them play. It's about much more than the 3's.

naps
12-04-2015, 05:02 PM
He is the best offensive player on the planet, by a distant margin. I don't know if I can say he is the best player though. It's still that guy from Akron, IMO. We have seen the finals last year, the difference between the two was pretty clear. Also, we can't forget KD. I woupd wait till the end of this season before crowning anyone new.

tredigs
12-04-2015, 05:05 PM
He also leads the NBA in paint scoring over Deandre Jordan at 66%.



HAHA, wow, is this for real??


Yup. And he's shooting 75% from 0-3 feet on a career high volume for himself (~20% of his shots). That's #1 in the league over DJ and higher than DJ's ever posted (who leads the league in this stat every year since essentially all he does is dunk there. Steph Curry is the most dominant paint player in the NBA right now :laugh:

tredigs
12-04-2015, 05:13 PM
This is all gonna suck when Kawhi and his demon defense shut him down in game 1 of the playoffs and Curry struggles to adjust.

joedaheights
12-04-2015, 05:28 PM
The hilarious part is just knowing how much jody would be claiming that a team like OKC would absolutely own this current league if they were around in the 90's. He'd have mentioned the Westbrook name right along side Mitch Richmond, and the thought of them ever missing the post-season, even if Durant only played 30 games (just with the dominance of Westbrook + Ibaka and their freakishness alone supplemented by a 1/3 season from an All-Timer), would be scornfully laughed off as modern day media blowhardness by jod.

Yet, that just happened. In this league. That team wasn't good enough for the playoffs. The Bulls and their +1.1 win differential aren't scaring anybody, and absolutely will not maintain their standing (we're 19 games into the year mind you... there's a lot of 'noise' in the records) unless their play gets a lot better. Mavs are +0.4. Even worse example from you earlier. +/- is a much better indicator of who will eventually end up where than standings will ~19 games in.

Now, imagine if the 80's and 90's had 1/5 of the oversees talent that is currently around. Now THAT would have been an impressive situation.

Like I've told you many times man, if it's legit in any era I'll say so.

How did I know you're "foreign talent guy." Hilarious. It was pretty funny watching Jordan guard Vlade Divac for long stretches of the 91 finals because Phil Jackson just wasn't afraid of Divac doing anything to Jordan, and he didn't.

But for all the hype about foreign players, what has been the real impact?

Legit:
Dirk Nowitzki (the only foreign player to lead a team to a ring)
Manu Ginobili
Tony Parker
Drazen Petrovic

Did I miss something else in terms of players who make the best in the game more than blink?

Divac was meh? Toni Kukoc was supposed to be the European Magic Johnson... He was closer to Craig Ehlo lol. Andres Nocioni. Yao Ming?? Lmfao ... Yeah he ended up being one of the games all time greats.

You have your 500% surplus of foreign talent. I'll take post play and far more skilled players. Many of whom were as athletic or more than today. Can you picture Scottie Pippen playing today and not being in the top 3 of mvp conversations?

phantasyyy
12-04-2015, 05:42 PM
He is the best offensive player on the planet, by a distant margin. I don't know if I can say he is the best player though. It's still that guy from Akron, IMO. We have seen the finals last year, the difference between the two was pretty clear. Also, we can't forget KD. I woupd wait till the end of this season before crowning anyone new.

Curry's was born in Akron Ohio :D so I guess you've declared him the best player in the world

Hawkeye15
12-04-2015, 05:57 PM
agreed, but it's also freedom. no coach would have allowed Reggie miller to shoot 10 3's a game back then. and it's also guys practicing that shot more now that it's such a big weapon.

not discrediting curry, just saying it's a factor... gotta look at things within context.

if he was hitting 46% while shooting pull ups from 30, and coming off picks and getting his release off in less than half a second, damn right his coach would have let him.

MTar786
12-04-2015, 07:39 PM
curry is making his way to the jordan ranks. he cant just get there in one season. but hypothetically speaking if the rest of his career goes like how the first 20 games of this season have.. then curry will be the GOAT imo.

tredigs
12-04-2015, 08:23 PM
Like I've told you many times man, if it's legit in any era I'll say so.

How did I know you're "foreign talent guy." Hilarious. It was pretty funny watching Jordan guard Vlade Divac for long stretches of the 91 finals because Phil Jackson just wasn't afraid of Divac doing anything to Jordan, and he didn't.

But for all the hype about foreign players, what has been the real impact?

Legit:
Dirk Nowitzki (the only foreign player to lead a team to a ring)
Manu Ginobili
Tony Parker
Drazen Petrovic

Did I miss something else in terms of players who make the best in the game more than blink?

Divac was meh? Toni Kukoc was supposed to be the European Magic Johnson... He was closer to Craig Ehlo lol. Andres Nocioni. Yao Ming?? Lmfao ... Yeah he ended up being one of the games all time greats.

You have your 500% surplus of foreign talent. I'll take post play and far more skilled players. Many of whom were as athletic or more than today. Can you picture Scottie Pippen playing today and not being in the top 3 of mvp conversations?

Haha are you trying to say that you're "anti foreign talent guy"? Because, that seems like a fairly foolish stance to simply deny the influence that a consistently growing talent pool can have on the game. Do you want me to run down some of the non-US talent that have had an effect on the game since MJ? Yes? OK:

Tony Parker
Manu Ginobili
Marc Gasol
Pau Gasol
Steve Nash
Dirk Nowitzki
Yao Ming
Serge Ibaka
Goran Dragic
Deng
Rubio
Gallinari
Batum
Al Horford
Pek
Nene
Bogut
Giannis
Andrew Wiggins 2 years ago
Porzingis this year
Ben Simmons next year

^That's three straight seasons where it's possible THE best player in the draft will be from outside of the states. Regardless, that's a list full of NBA starters, some being All Stars, DPOY's, MVP's and/or Finals MVP's.

PS: @ Dirk being "the only foreign player to lead a team to a championship"? Where do you think Hakeem is from, west Texas?? Tim Duncan's born and raised in the "US Virgin Island" territory. IE, an island in between Haiti and South America. Virgin Islanders aren't allowed to vote for the President of the US. He's more foreign than American.

Couple a talent pool influx along with a clear overhaul + upgrade of both offensive and defensive schemes used in the current NBA, and yes, you likely have a tougher league overall.

Up your BBIQ player.

AIRMAR72
12-04-2015, 08:46 PM
To be honest I think LeBron and KD are still the best players in the league. I would love to agree cause I like Bron as person and a basketball player and Kevin Durant but Curry is the BEST player in the NBA right NOW we have never seen a shooter like steph Curry...NEVER. I guarantee the league WILL push the 3point line further back because of Curry. Steph is a game changer his WILL power is off da charts the ball is now apart of his soul, like the GREAT Michael Jordan who was clearly the last NBA player to inherited that gift Curry can score on anyone at anytime the hesitation drive to basket pulling up in your face underpressure and drains it with ease are backyard playground moves and he makes look so easy thats greatness I've been waiting for over 20yrs to see a player with jordan scoring dominance and Curry is that man he WILL only get better if he stays healthy

beasted86
12-05-2015, 10:07 AM
Not for me.

He's not more athletic, faster, stronger or taller than everyone. He's still more skilled than 90% of the field, especially shooting and handling. But I feel like if you put him on the Sixers or Nets he'd be good, but not great. Those skills wouldn't be utilized the same way with the floor spacing against him and the bigs able to hedge and trap every pick and roll.

He would be your average 20 a game scorer nowhere close to MVP consideration.

You put LeBron or Durant on the Sixers, they are still stronger, faster, taller, more athletic and more skilled than their peers. Their efficiency takes a hit but they could force the issue and get to the FT line 10 times a game and still average 25+ a night because of it.

Curry cannot just "out athleticism" his opponent and get whatever shot he wants or get to the FT line every time down the floor. Those other guys can. Curry is limited to whatever the system gives him or relent to taking more 25 ft threes than he already takes.

He's still in the top 5 players I'd take if there was some type or redraft and I had no clue of what other players I could get later on.

Gander13SM
12-05-2015, 10:52 AM
Yes. And it isn't even close.

ewing
12-05-2015, 10:52 AM
if he was hitting 46% while shooting pull ups from 30, and coming off picks and getting his release off in less than half a second, damn right his coach would have let him.

if you held Curry like they held Reggie off screens you'd foul out in under 6 mins. The game has changed. Reggie was a great player and great shooter. What makes curry a better offensive player is his ability to create with the bounce but Reggie, who was underrated then, would be lethal now.

Gander13SM
12-05-2015, 12:45 PM
if you held Curry like they held Reggie off screens you'd foul out in under 6 mins.


What a load of B.S

tredigs
12-05-2015, 12:49 PM
Not for me.

He's not more athletic, faster, stronger or taller than everyone. He's still more skilled than 90% of the field, especially shooting and handling. But I feel like if you put him on the Sixers or Nets he'd be good, but not great. Those skills wouldn't be utilized the same way with the floor spacing against him and the bigs able to hedge and trap every pick and roll.

He would be your average 20 a game scorer nowhere close to MVP consideration.

You put LeBron or Durant on the Sixers, they are still stronger, faster, taller, more athletic and more skilled than their peers. Their efficiency takes a hit but they could force the issue and get to the FT line 10 times a game and still average 25+ a night because of it.

Curry cannot just "out athleticism" his opponent and get whatever shot he wants or get to the FT line every time down the floor. Those other guys can. Curry is limited to whatever the system gives him or relent to taking more 25 ft threes than he already takes.

He's still in the top 5 players I'd take if there was some type or redraft and I had no clue of what other players I could get later on.

Just out of sincere curiosity have you been watching the Warriors play a decent amount this season? I think your take is fine, but ultimately totally off base. At this point I think the only two players that can give Curry real trouble is Kawhi and Jimmy Butler. Maybe PG. But, he has such a motor that even in that scenario he'd effectively run them out of their offensive game. And those are all the same guys who give LeBron massive fits. Against neutral comp I think Currys takeover ability far exceeds Bron at this point. I do question if you've seen him play to call him an avg 20 per game scorer on a random team. To call him more skilled than 90% of the field is a massive understatement. I'd struggle to name five players more skilled than his current level all time.

Vee-Rex
12-05-2015, 03:48 PM
What a load of B.S

I'm not sure I agree with ewings statement but Reggie was held/fouled far more than what would be allowed in today's game.

Dude was knocking down threes while getting hacked in midair fairly regularly with no fouls called.

beasted86
12-05-2015, 03:51 PM
Just out of sincere curiosity have you been watching the Warriors play a decent amount this season? I think your take is fine, but ultimately totally off base. At this point I think the only two players that can give Curry real trouble is Kawhi and Jimmy Butler. Maybe PG. But, he has such a motor that even in that scenario he'd effectively run them out of their offensive game. And those are all the same guys who give LeBron massive fits. Against neutral comp I think Currys takeover ability far exceeds Bron at this point. I do question if you've seen him play to call him an avg 20 per game scorer on a random team. To call him more skilled than 90% of the field is a massive understatement. I'd struggle to name five players more skilled than his current level all time.
To answer your first question, I've watched about 4 of their games so far.

Secondly, no single player can shut down or limit a superstar for starters. It takes a team scheme. So I'm not sure where you are going with your secondary point of what Curry can do against Leonard and Butler.

There is no takeover ability of Curry if he has no spacing. The main crux of what I'm suggesting is Curry is a system player. He's great in his own right, but without his supporting cast he'd be putting up Lilliard or Bledsoe numbers -- two guys who probably won't finish top 20 in MVP voting.

My suggestion is LeBron and somewhat Durant cannot be stopped by anyone from getting 25+ regardless of the team. I concede under his current team and system Curry is unstoppable, but in a different setting Curry doesn't have the physical advantage to simply speed by all his opponents, see over his opponents, or out-muscle his man on any given night. He must play within a scheme like most small guards. I'm not sure how Curry would look sporting a sub 30% assisted percentage like Kobe, LeBron and Wade did for a couple seasons while still getting 29+ a night.


And finally, I'm not really sure I'm cutting him short in skills. Curry is elite in a set of skills, but not all. Is Curry finishing strong through contact / over his man? Posting up other guards? Consistently finishing with double digit assists? This is just a small list of examples of the vast array of skills any one guard can have and he's not excelling in these areas. So I wouldn't say it's an understatement or even any indictment of how great I do think he is saying he's more skilled than 90% of the league. He's having a career year in rebounding and steals so far so he looks more rounded than usual. Anyway, the thing is he's so far ahead in a few categories it nearly makes the others seem trivial.

BKLYNpigeon
12-05-2015, 05:02 PM
Not for me.

He's not more athletic, faster, stronger or taller than everyone. He's still more skilled than 90% of the field, especially shooting and handling. But I feel like if you put him on the Sixers or Nets he'd be good, but not great. Those skills wouldn't be utilized the same way with the floor spacing against him and the bigs able to hedge and trap every pick and roll.

He would be your average 20 a game scorer nowhere close to MVP consideration.

You put LeBron or Durant on the Sixers, they are still stronger, faster, taller, more athletic and more skilled than their peers. Their efficiency takes a hit but they could force the issue and get to the FT line 10 times a game and still average 25+ a night because of it.

Curry cannot just "out athleticism" his opponent and get whatever shot he wants or get to the FT line every time down the floor. Those other guys can. Curry is limited to whatever the system gives him or relent to taking more 25 ft threes than he already takes.

He's still in the top 5 players I'd take if there was some type or redraft and I had no clue of what other players I could get later on.


Great use of use of the English language. lol

The game is more then just "athleticism." You need coaches, teammates, system to harness your skills and effectiveness as a Basketball player.

Gander13SM
12-05-2015, 05:17 PM
I'll take skill over athleticism any day.

Gander13SM
12-05-2015, 05:51 PM
There's a brilliant article about Steph on fivethirtyeight.


Among players with more than 200 shots, Curry was only the fourth-most-efficient shooter on a shot-by-shot basis (behind Kyle Korver, DeAndre Jordan and Kevin Durant). Yet Curry has more than 1,600 shots in that span, while none of the other three players has even half that. He has 371 total points added from shooting efficiency alone, with Korver in second place with 247. Note that this doesn’t include additional value from free throws earned — which would probably make Curry’s advantage even greater (Curry has 416 made free throws in the period, compared to Kyle Korver’s 118).

This year, Curry is making his 2014-15 MVP season seem practically pedestrian. Curry is playing better in a number of ways — among other things, he is on pace to set career highs in stealing and rebounding, and he has his best defensive rating to date. He is also hitting a career high in shot attempts per 100 possessions (29.0 this year vs. 25.1 last year) and 3-point attempts per 100 possessions (15.5 this year vs. 12.1 last year). Most importantly, even though he’s taking all these extra shots, his shooting efficiency has gone up!



Curry has hit 45 percent with a defender between 2 and 4 feet away, 44 percent with a defender between 4 and 6 feet away, and 47 percent with the closest defender more than 6 feet away. Yes, that’s right, Curry shoots threes about as well with a defender 2 to 4 feet away (classified as “tight” by NBA.com) as an average NBA shooter does with the nearest defender 12 feet away.


Curry takes a huge portion of his shots early in the shot clock (more than 50 percent) and is deadly on these. His worst time frame is with around 12 to 16 seconds left — where he has still made 42 percent. Then, he somehow shoots better and better as the clock runs down! In addition to being another example of how the traditional ideas of “good” and “bad” shots don’t really apply to Curry, this also has the very practical implication that Curry’s teammates should be willing to pass up reasonably good shots even if it means Curry will have less time to set up his own.

[SPOILER TAG]https://espnfivethirtyeight.files.wordpress.com/2015/12/morris-stephcurry-9.png?w=610&h=647[/SPOILER TAG]


http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/stephen-curry-is-the-revolution/?ex_cid=538twitter

ewing
12-05-2015, 05:57 PM
What a load of B.S

It true. Curry is a better offensive player but they let held a lot more in that era and Reggie was the last guy you were willing to give air space to, so guess who got held the most. I'm sure people grab Curry for the same reason it just not as allowed today

Gander13SM
12-05-2015, 06:03 PM
It true. Curry is a better offensive player but they let held a lot more in that era and Reggie was the last guy you were willing to give air space to, so guess who got held the most. I'm sure people grab Curry for the same reason it just not as allowed today

Yes. But it wouldn't effect him nearly as much as people think. Also, are less fouls called now than in the 90s. If anything, you would've fouled out in the 90s trying to guard Steph.

beasted86
12-05-2015, 07:24 PM
Great use of use of the English language. lol

The game is more then just "athleticism." You need coaches, teammates, system to harness your skills and effectiveness as a Basketball player.

But I thought this thread was about the best player on the planet hands down regardless of these factors?

For example, a player like Jordan transcends coaches, teammates, and system and was putting up 37 a night with a mediocre combination of the 3.

If you simply want to take things at surface value, then sure, right now at this time and current situation during this 20 game start to the season, he's flat out one of the greatest ever during this streak. The numbers back it up as well as it passing the eye test.

lol, please
12-05-2015, 11:10 PM
It true. Curry is a better offensive player but they let held a lot more in that era and Reggie was the last guy you were willing to give air space to, so guess who got held the most. I'm sure people grab Curry for the same reason it just not as allowed today

The 90s era was stronger and had more talent depth, but not a team in that decade could stop this Warriors team.

ewing
12-05-2015, 11:12 PM
Yes. But it wouldn't effect him nearly as much as people think. Also, are less fouls called now than in the 90s. If anything, you would've fouled out in the 90s trying to guard Steph.


im not saying anything about how old rules would affect Curry. I'm just saying that it was different. the fact that there are less fouls called now doesn't mean that there are more fouls now. Its the opposite. I am a knick fan and hated Reggie Miller. If you defended anyone the way John Starks defended Reggie Miller you would foul out in 6 mins.

ewing
12-05-2015, 11:15 PM
The 90s era was stronger and had more talent depth, but not a team in that decade could stop this Warriors team.

i don't know why you guys are so defensive. saying **** was different isn't a slight on the Warriors or Curry. It was different. In todays game Reggie Miller wouldn't have been near as good as Curry. He would have shot a TON of 3s though.

Gander13SM
12-06-2015, 04:25 AM
im not saying anything about how old rules would affect Curry. I'm just saying that it was different. the fact that there are less fouls called now doesn't mean that there are more fouls now. Its the opposite. I am a knick fan and hated Reggie Miller. If you defended anyone the way John Starks defended Reggie Miller you would foul out in 6 mins.

I disagree. It's tougher now. Defenses are more sophisticated and scoring one on one is more of a difficult thing to do now. You have to be a smarter offensive player now than you did back then.

ewing
12-06-2015, 06:13 AM
I disagree. It's tougher now. Defenses are more sophisticated and scoring one on one is more of a difficult thing to do now. You have to be a smarter offensive player now than you did back then.

you're sopshisticated

AIRMAR72
12-06-2015, 11:00 AM
I disagree. It's tougher now. Defenses are more sophisticated and scoring one on one is more of a difficult thing to do now. You have to be a smarter offensive player now than you did back then.
Rubbish

5ass
12-06-2015, 11:07 AM
Rubbish

Rabbits.

Gander13SM
12-06-2015, 11:29 AM
Rubbish

That's a great rebuttal. Glad we had this conversation.

tredigs
12-06-2015, 12:31 PM
@JoeD, Going back to an earlier point/comparison made in this thread, you know who's Reggie Miller of the current NBA who is benefiting from the offense he is in? Klay Thompson. Klay Thompson's Reggie Miller reborn as a stoic. If he had Reggie's heart/fearlessness and had his own team, he's Reggie. Steph Curry is a monster from another planet who eats the soul of all teams he plays against.

ewing
12-06-2015, 01:03 PM
@JoeD, Going back to an earlier point/comparison made in this thread, you know who's Reggie Miller of the current NBA who is benefiting from the offense he is in? Klay Thompson. Klay Thompson's Reggie Miller reborn as a stoic. If he had Reggie's heart/fearlessness and had his own team, he's Reggie. Steph Curry is a monster from another planet who eats the soul of all teams he plays against.

the Curry Thompson comparison is a good one though Reggie was a better shooter.

tredigs
12-06-2015, 01:32 PM
the Curry Thompson comparison is a good one though Reggie was a better shooter.

Reggie/Thompson* yeah. Klay's got a better 3pt stroke but overall Reggie's a better shooter. He was also an alpha. Klay's cool with his role, and I don't think he'd kill as an alpha. Again going back to Jody's earlier post about being "your standard 20 ppg guy" in reference to Curry that got a round of laughs by me, that's essentially what Klay would be with more shots in a lead role.

Bartlee23
12-06-2015, 01:48 PM
Reggie/Thompson* yeah. Klay's got a better 3pt stroke but overall Reggie's a better shooter. He was also an alpha. Klay's cool with his role, and I don't think he'd kill as an alpha. Again going back to Jody's earlier post about being "your standard 20 ppg guy" in reference to Curry that got a round of laughs by me, that's essentially what Klay would be with more shots in a lead role.

Just out of curiosity how old are you? Have you every truly seen Reggie play other than YouTube videos or caught a game on "hardwood classics??" You even quote in your post " if he had Reggie's heart/fearlessness" he would be just like Reggie? He doesn't, he isn't as good and there really is no comparison.

Reggie is arguably a top 50-75 player of all time. By the time Thompson's career is done he won't be even close to that plateau. People seem to either have short memories, are too young to have seen other players/era's play or in all honesty just aren't very educated. Everyone is so quick to pick the next (fill in the blank.) These are proven superstars you are comparing to... not a "flavor of the month." That comparison was at best laughable.

ewing
12-06-2015, 01:54 PM
Reggie/Thompson* yeah. Klay's got a better 3pt stroke but overall Reggie's a better shooter. He was also an alpha. Klay's cool with his role, and I don't think he'd kill as an alpha. Again going back to Jody's earlier post about being "your standard 20 ppg guy" in reference to Curry that got a round of laughs by me, that's essentially what Klay would be with more shots in a lead role.

Klay certainly has a prettier stroke i don't know about better. Reggie had to work like hell to get looks in a super slow paced game as his teams number one option. he took more off balance 3s then Klay imo and still shot a heck of a %. Klay shot is pretty as **** but i don't he is the shooter or shot maker reggie was. He is a Reggie Miller lite. IS see similarities in there games but Reggie was just better IMO. As for Curry not being more then a decent scorer in that era i don't agree with that at all.

tredigs
12-06-2015, 01:57 PM
Just out of curiosity how old are you? Have you every truly seen Reggie play other than YouTube videos or caught a game on "hardwood classics??" You even quote in your post " if he had Reggie's heart/fearlessness" he would be just like Reggie? He doesn't, he isn't as good and there really is no comparison.

Reggie is arguably a top 50-75 player of all time. By the time Thompson's career is done he won't be even close to that plateau. People seem to either have short memories, are too young to have seen other players/era's play or in all honesty just aren't very educated. Everyone is so quick to pick the next (fill in the blank.) These are proven superstars you are comparing to... not a "flavor of the month." That comparison was at best laughable.
I'm in my 30's and seen the best of Reggie. It's a far, far better comparison than Curry/Reggie. Klay has a ton of skill and is one of the ten best 3pt shooters all time, he just is. Reggie had insane fire + creativity and was an alpha, but skill wise it's not a stretch to compare the two. Put Klay on the Sixers and he's Reggie lite with better D.

ewing
12-06-2015, 02:18 PM
I'm in my 30's and seen the best of Reggie. It's a far, far better comparison than Curry/Reggie. Klay has a ton of skill and is one of the ten best 3pt shooters all time, he just is. Reggie had insane fire + creativity and was an alpha, but skill wise it's not a stretch to compare the two. Put Klay on the Sixers and he's Reggie lite with better D.

Admittedly i rate Reggie higher then most but he was very good defender and i think he would be an even better one today. He probably was a little taller then Klay and looks longer to me. His only weakness was that he wasn't the strongest guy but was a very smart defender and think he would excel on that end today do to his length and smarts. I agree with Reggie lite for Klay though. They are both great without the ball and good smart defenders with excellent size at the 2. Klay is definitely a better comparison then Curry. Curry is a clearly better with the bounce both pulling up and driving, plus he is a better passer, they are really only comparable in catch and shoot situations.

Bartlee23
12-06-2015, 07:11 PM
I'm in my 30's and seen the best of Reggie. It's a far, far better comparison than Curry/Reggie. Klay has a ton of skill and is one of the ten best 3pt shooters all time, he just is. Reggie had insane fire + creativity and was an alpha, but skill wise it's not a stretch to compare the two. Put Klay on the Sixers and he's Reggie lite with better D.

My mistake.... I didn't know I was talking to an "expert." "HE JUST IS"... well you convinced me... sorry to question your expertise....lol.

Wow... now Thompson is " one of the best ten 3pt shooters of all time???" So Golden State has TWO of the greatest 3pt shooters of all time??? I just don't know what to say. Thompson has proved basically "nothing" in his career yet Reggie is a hall of famer,one of the top players to ever play the game and has the history to prove it? I will respectfully bow out of this conversation because it proved what I said before " either too young, short memory, or not very educated"... I wonder which one it is?

Allphakenny1
12-06-2015, 07:45 PM
If Thompson does not have an injury riddled career, I would be shocked if he does not finish in the top ten 3pt shooters of all time. He is like 25 years old (or so, too lazy to look it up), and he is half way to the top ten all time 3pts made. I get that he gets more open looks with Curry on his team, but he also takes far less shots than if he were a #1 option. His efficiency would go down, but his overall makes and points would go up. Plus he constantly makes threes with defenders in his face, he does not need open looks to make it.

So yes, the Warriors have two of the top 3pt shooters of all time on the same team at the same time.

AIRMAR72
12-06-2015, 08:17 PM
Rabbits. would you like some carrots

AIRMAR72
12-06-2015, 08:20 PM
That's a great rebuttal. Glad we had this conversation. its a waste of my time to articulate any of comments to younglings who don't know NBA basketball

mjt20mik
12-06-2015, 09:03 PM
Why do people still compare the 90s to now? It was a different game.

I only see physical guards being able to survive the 90s. Westbrook, Paul, Wade all come to mind.

But since we don't have handchecking anymore, it is without a doubt hes the best player on the planet right now. His team has been very lucky to be healthy too. Minimal injuries to their core (Steph, Klay, Green).

Gander13SM
12-06-2015, 09:27 PM
its a waste of my time to articulate any of comments to younglings who don't know NBA basketball

Sure it is. But it isn't a waste of your time to come back onto the forum, read my reply and type out "it would be a waste of my time to reply"... no. Of course not.

It's not like you could have typed out an actual reply in that same time, nope.

Good to see you spending your time by telling people you can't waste your time discussing things when you could be using that time to tell people you're not going to waste your time.

Nice one.

Allphakenny1
12-06-2015, 10:16 PM
Why do people still compare the 90s to now? It was a different game.

I only see physical guards being able to survive the 90s. Westbrook, Paul, Wade all come to mind.

But since we don't have handchecking anymore, it is without a doubt hes the best player on the planet right now. His team has been very lucky to be healthy too. Minimal injuries to their core (Steph, Klay, Green).

Curry dominates in the 90's, far better than Iverson who people salivated over at that time period. Also, Warriors had plenty of injuries, just the back-ups step up when it happens. Iggy for Barnes, Ezeli for Bogut, Green for Lee, etc.

tredigs
12-06-2015, 11:10 PM
My mistake.... I didn't know I was talking to an "expert." "HE JUST IS"... well you convinced me... sorry to question your expertise....lol.

Wow... now Thompson is " one of the best ten 3pt shooters of all time???" So Golden State has TWO of the greatest 3pt shooters of all time??? I just don't know what to say. Thompson has proved basically "nothing" in his career yet Reggie is a hall of famer,one of the top players to ever play the game and has the history to prove it? I will respectfully bow out of this conversation because it proved what I said before " either too young, short memory, or not very educated"... I wonder which one it is?

Who are you again?

Yes minion, both Splash Brothers of the 2015/16 NBA defending champion 23-0 Golden State Warriors are top ten 3pt shooters of all time. Are >2000 3pt attempts not a big enough sample size for you? I think the writing is on the wall for anybody worth their salt. Klay has the 12th best 3pt% in NBA history on volumes that rank 28th, 19th and 9th all time. Guess who you doesn't approach any of those feats in his career? That's right you genius you, you guessed it. Reggie Miller. The 48th highest 3pt% shooter All Time whose career high volume is less than Klay's 2014/15 season. # wise Klay's 22/3/3 on 46/44/88 was prime Reggie to a tee. As I've said, I clearly give the nod to Miller, but to scoff at the comparison as a "Reggie-lite" just further highlights the revisionist-history douchebaggery that runs rampant in some. I've seen a decade+ of Reggie in real time, and I've seen hundreds of Klay's game. It's an apt comparison.

And for the bonus round, let's hear your ten players you'd rank above Klay Thompson in 3pt shooting.

tredigs
12-06-2015, 11:16 PM
Why do people still compare the 90s to now? It was a different game.

I only see physical guards being able to survive the 90s. Westbrook, Paul, Wade all come to mind.

But since we don't have handchecking anymore, it is without a doubt hes the best player on the planet right now. His team has been very lucky to be healthy too. Minimal injuries to their core (Steph, Klay, Green).
Mark Price was one of the best guards I saw play in the 90's. Would you describe him as physical?

Bartlee23
12-06-2015, 11:35 PM
Who are you again?

Yes minion, both Splash Brothers of the 2015/16 NBA defending champion 23-0 Golden State Warriors are top ten 3pt shooters of all time. Are >2000 3pt attempts not a big enough sample size for you? I think the writing is on the wall for anybody worth their salt. Klay has the 12th best 3pt% in NBA history on volumes that rank 28th, 19th and 9th all time. Guess who you doesn't approach any of those feats in his career? That's right you genius you, you guessed it. Reggie Miller. The 48th highest 3pt% shooter All Time whose career high volume is less than Klay's 2014/15 season. # wise Klay's 22/3/3 on 46/44/88 was prime Reggie to a tee. As I've said, I clearly give the nod to Miller, but to scoff at the comparison as a "Reggie-lite" just further highlights the revisionist-history douchebaggery that runs rampant in some. I've seen a decade+ of Reggie in real time, and I've seen hundreds of Klay's game. It's an apt comparison.

And for the bonus round, let's hear your ten players you'd rank above Klay Thompson in 3pt shooting.

Actually the question is... Who are you? I made no claims.

Gladly....

Ray Allen

Reggie Miller

Jason Terry

Paul Pierce

Chauncey Billups

Rashard Lewis

Kyle Korver

Steve Kerr

Peja Stojakovic

Dale Ellis

Steve Nash

Dirk Nowitzki

Mike Miller

Glen Rice

Brent Barry

Stephen Curry

Mark Price

Allan Houston

Jeff Hornacek

Dell Curry

Larry Bird

In no particular order... how many is that? I may have missed a few. The game is different now pal... just because a guy jacks up 6+ three's a game doesn't make him "the greatest." That's cool though, you're entitled to your opinion as I am mine. I just don't consider Thompson in my top list yet. People are too quick to label people with these titles before their career has basically even started. (and accomplished nothing.. a championship is a TEAM award) My opinion......

Allphakenny1
12-06-2015, 11:49 PM
Actually the question is... Who are you? I made no claims.

Gladly....

Ray Allen

Reggie Miller

Jason Terry

Paul Pierce

Chauncey Billups

Rashard Lewis

Kyle Korver

Steve Kerr

Peja Stojakovic

Dale Ellis

Steve Nash

Dirk Nowitzki

Mike Miller

Glen Rice

Brent Barry

Stephen Curry

Mark Price

Allan Houston

Jeff Hornacek

Dell Curry

Larry Bird

In no particular order... how many is that? I may have missed a few. The game is different now pal... just because a guy jacks up 6+ three's a game doesn't make him "the greatest." That's cool though, you're entitled to your opinion as I am mine. I just don't consider Thompson in my top list yet. People are too quick to label people with these titles before their career has basically even started. (and accomplished nothing.. a championship is a TEAM award) My opinion......

Wow, most of those players are no where near Thompson, but I think I see your problem. for example, if a player plays 20 years in the league and makes 2,500 3's and another player plays 10 years and makes 2,000 3's on similar efficiency, you would say the 20 year player is better simply because he made more. It seem you have an inability to predict (or better yet project) a players abilities to see where they may end up in their career. It is not your fault you cannot see this, it just must be something you are lacking. Just trust those who are in the know that if Thompson stays healthy he will be in the top ten all time 3pt shooters.

Chronz
12-06-2015, 11:56 PM
Mark Price was one of the best guards I saw play in the 90's. Would you describe him as physical?

Shows how much you know, that dude practically invented the term bully ball. Wait, couldve been the guy who popularized splitting the double. One or the other but you definitely had to be buff to play back then, its why Maggette was so awesome in our era.

tredigs
12-06-2015, 11:56 PM
Hahah I was drinking a beer after work and literally spit it out laughing when the third name was Jason Terry. Felt like something out of a cartoon. We're done with this discussion. As previously outlined, Klay's resume is stronger than virtually everyone on that list. 3pt shooting is not something you need 10 years of dominance in to know where a player is at. A half decade is plenty. It's get on the bus now, or be the kid walking to school.

Enjoy the walk.

Bartlee23
12-07-2015, 12:10 AM
Wow, most of those players are no where near Thompson, but I think I see your problem. for example, if a player plays 20 years in the league and makes 2,500 3's and another player plays 10 years and makes 2,000 3's on similar efficiency, you would say the 20 year player is better simply because he made more. It seem you have an inability to predict (or better yet project) a players abilities to see where they may end up in their career. It is not your fault you cannot see this, it just must be something you are lacking. Just trust those who are in the know that if Thompson stays healthy he will be in the top ten all time 3pt shooters.

Actually a lot of those players I mentioned are hall of famers,MVP's,multiple year all-stars and all-NBA players but you keep your "if" and "will be's"... understand the game just fine pal.. what you "lack" is the comprehension that people have different opinions. Notice the word "yet" I used. Doesn't mean he won't be there you're playing a game that hasn't even been finished...

Bartlee23
12-07-2015, 12:17 AM
Hahah I was drinking a beer after work and literally spit it out laughing when the third name was Jason Terry. Felt like something out of a cartoon. We're done with this discussion. As previously outlined, Klay's resume is stronger than virtually everyone on that list. 3pt shooting is not something you need 10 years of dominance in to know where a player is at. A half decade is plenty. It's get on the bus now, or be the kid walking to school.

Enjoy the walk.

Sorry you had to work on a Sunday. Hope the beer is good. Sorry I don't watch cartoons but I do have an opinion. I could really care less about your "predictions" of what Thompson may do by the end of his career.

Again do you understand the word "yet?" Go read my former post.. don't have time to waste. You asked for my top players.. I named them. The list has some pretty solid credentials compared to a player who has basically nothing on his resume as far as personal accolades. Think what you want but you're right we are " done with this discussion" if you can't accept another persons opinion then you make it worthless to even talk to.

tredigs
12-07-2015, 12:27 AM
Let's make it clearer to illustrate my point. Klay Thompson - right now, today - shoots the three ball at a volume and an efficiency that is better than 99.9% of those to ever play basketball, and it would squarely rank in the top ten all time to do so. Where he fits into a historical reference based on career stats, etc, is irrelevant. He's a 43% 3pt shooter who shoots it on massive volume. Like 8 players ever could do what he does.

Allphakenny1
12-07-2015, 01:11 AM
Actually a lot of those players I mentioned are hall of famers,MVP's,multiple year all-stars and all-NBA players but you keep your "if" and "will be's"... understand the game just fine pal.. what you "lack" is the comprehension that people have different opinions. Notice the word "yet" I used. Doesn't mean he won't be there you're playing a game that hasn't even been finished...

Irrelevant if we are only talking about 3pt shooting. Also, Tredigs nailed it above. We are not talking about career stats, we are talking about who is a better 3pt shooter overall. If you think he will be in the top 10 at the end of his career then we are in agreement and arguing for nothing. If you think Thompson will not end his career as a top ten 3pt shooter then we disagree.

Vinny642
12-07-2015, 01:38 AM
If I have a Fantasy Draft for this one season, and I have first pick... it is Curry EASILY

Chronz
12-07-2015, 02:24 AM
Irrelevant if we are only talking about 3pt shooting. Also, Tredigs nailed it above. We are not talking about career stats, we are talking about who is a better 3pt shooter overall. If you think he will be in the top 10 at the end of his career then we are in agreement and arguing for nothing. If you think Thompson will not end his career as a top ten 3pt shooter then we disagree.

Who cares tho. Curry could snap his neck tomorrow and it wouldn't prevent me from knowing I witnessed the greatest bomber of all time.

Munkeysuit
12-07-2015, 07:53 AM
Steph Curry has been playing out of his mind lately and it doesn't seem like its flukey to me, he's the real deal!
BUT! he is not the best player in basketball, that crown still belongs to Lebron James by a mile! you minus Lebron from this Cavs team and they barely win 30 games, you do the same with Steph and they (The Warriors) still make the playoffs. If I'd look to crown Curry with anything right now it would be that he's definitely the best shooter in the game hands down and there is nobody even in the same area code as him, he is also the most entertaining and exciting to watch as well!
Let me put this into it's proper perspective...Curry isn't even the 3rd best player in basketball either! as I would take Russell Westbrook over him as an all around player ANY DAY! I am not at all disrespecting Curry, he's definitely one of my fav players to watch, but Westbrook and James are ahead of him in my opinion.

Scoots
12-07-2015, 11:37 AM
If you are talking about the top 3 shooter of all time I think it should be based on a short sustained peak. One game, one week, one month are all too short, but I think one season is probably long enough. Volume has to be a big part of it as well because if you are not taking many shots per game then it's not a primary weapon ... so lets set a minimum number of attempts for any qualifying season at 164 or 2 per game.

Using the metric of at least 2 attempts per game the list for career shooting is (in order of 3pt %):
Steph Curry
Hubert Davis
Drazen Petrovic
Jason Kapono
Kyle Korver
Steve Novak
Steve Nash
Anthony Morrow
Klay Thompson
Wesley Person

So ... top 10 for Klay :)

http://stats.nba.com/leaders/alltime/#!?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StatCategory=FG3_PCT&CF=FG3A*GE*2

Don't know where I can find the same for best individual season.

Scoots
12-07-2015, 11:50 AM
If you are talking about the top 3 shooter of all time I think it should be based on a short sustained peak. One game, one week, one month are all too short, but I think one season is probably long enough. Volume has to be a big part of it as well because if you are not taking many shots per game then it's not a primary weapon ... so lets set a minimum number of attempts for any qualifying season at 164 or 2 per game.

Using the metric of at least 2 attempts per game the list for career shooting is (in order of 3pt %):
Steph Curry
Hubert Davis
Drazen Petrovic
Jason Kapono
Kyle Korver
Steve Novak
Steve Nash
Anthony Morrow
Klay Thompson
Wesley Person

So ... top 10 for Klay :)

http://stats.nba.com/leaders/alltime/#!?SeasonType=Regular%20Season&StatCategory=FG3_PCT&CF=FG3A*GE*2

Don't know where I can find the same for best individual season.

By the way, on that list there are 4 players over 5 attempts per game: Curry, Thompson, Stojakovic, and Allen. Only Curry and Thompson are over 6 per game. In the top 10 only Curry, Thompson, and Korver are over 4 per game.

Bartlee23
12-07-2015, 01:32 PM
By the way, on that list there are 4 players over 5 attempts per game: Curry, Thompson, Stojakovic, and Allen. Only Curry and Thompson are over 6 per game. In the top 10 only Curry, Thompson, and Korver are over 4 per game.

Great job doing the research. My list was strictly off the top of my head and I will admit I did no research. (I did have a handful of your guys though) My point was Thompson has only played for 5 years... his career is not complete. I guess I just judge players differently from a lifetime aspect rather than a career that has not even been completed. Looking at career 3 point shooters I see percentage wise Thompson does not fall in the top 10.

1. Steve Kerr .4540
2. Stephen Curry .4431
3. Hubert Davis .4409
4. Drazen Petrovic* .4374
5. Jason Kapono .4336
6. Kyle Korver .4324
7. Steve Novak .4313
8. Tim Legler .4312
9. Steve Nash .4278
10. Anthony Morrow .4277
11. B.J. Armstrong .4250
12. Klay Thompson .4185

Doesn't mean he won't get there which I will say again I used the word "yet." If Thompson were to shoot the same amount of 3's for the next three years and he makes 33% of them is he still in your mind a " top 10 three point shooter?" It might not happen... but it could? Nobody can predict the future..

Let me give you this as an example.. Derrick Rose... rookie of the year, multiple conference finals appearances, multiple time all-star and the guy even won an MVP.... you got him in your "top 100 players of all time?" but come on.. he won awards that only the select few can say they have (ROY/MVP) He almost singlehandedly beat Miami with a team that had no offense.... so he's got to be "top 100" right?

People nowadays are very quick to put these titles or labels on people before they've really done/accomplished anything. Look at New York with Kristaps... the guy has played 20 games and you have fans already calling him "rookie of the year"," the next Dirk "... " one of the next all-time great players"... I know you're excited about your team.. world champions, about to "possibly?" repeat, has a shot at maybe the best season ever but let's sit back and enjoy... things can change in a heartbeat.

I like Thompson but as far as listing him as a "Reggie lite" or whatever the comparison was.. sorry... not buying it. 5 years vs a lifetime tells me different. Again these are just my "opinions" which I am entitled to and for those reasons... "I'm out".....

Vee-Rex
12-07-2015, 01:59 PM
Great job doing the research. My list was strictly off the top of my head and I will admit I did no research. (I did have a handful of your guys though) My point was Thompson has only played for 5 years... his career is not complete. I guess I just judge players differently from a lifetime aspect rather than a career that has not even been completed. Looking at career 3 point shooters I see percentage wise Thompson does not fall in the top 10.

1. Steve Kerr .4540
2. Stephen Curry .4431
3. Hubert Davis .4409
4. Drazen Petrovic* .4374
5. Jason Kapono .4336
6. Kyle Korver .4324
7. Steve Novak .4313
8. Tim Legler .4312
9. Steve Nash .4278
10. Anthony Morrow .4277
11. B.J. Armstrong .4250
12. Klay Thompson .4185

Doesn't mean he won't get there which I will say again I used the word "yet." If Thompson were to shoot the same amount of 3's for the next three years and he makes 33% of them is he still in your mind a " top 10 three point shooter?" It might not happen... but it could? Nobody can predict the future..

Let me give you this as an example.. Derrick Rose... rookie of the year, multiple conference finals appearances, multiple time all-star and the guy even won an MVP.... you got him in your "top 100 players of all time?" but come on.. he won awards that only the select few can say they have (ROY/MVP) He almost singlehandedly beat Miami with a team that had no offense.... so he's got to be "top 100" right?

People nowadays are very quick to put these titles or labels on people before they've really done/accomplished anything. Look at New York with Kristaps... the guy has played 20 games and you have fans already calling him "rookie of the year"," the next Dirk "... " one of the next all-time great players"... I know you're excited about your team.. world champions, about to "possibly?" repeat, has a shot at maybe the best season ever but let's sit back and enjoy... things can change in a heartbeat.

I like Thompson but as far as listing him as a "Reggie lite" or whatever the comparison was.. sorry... not buying it. 5 years vs a lifetime tells me different. Again these are just my "opinions" which I am entitled to and for those reasons... "I'm out".....

Well said. Everyone are prisoners of the moment.

I think the appropriate thing to say is, "Klay has a good chance to be a top 10 3pt shooter of all time."

To Chronz: If Curry retired tomorrow then I can say, "I believe I witnessed the greatest shooter of all time." Nothing is wrong with that. But if I go and say he's factually the best shooter ever even if he retired tomorrow then I'm doing a disservice for those guys who excelled for many years. Longevity has to mean something when talking about all-time. Career has to happen, otherwise the determined time to become an "all-time" player becomes arbitrary.

Scoots
12-07-2015, 02:11 PM
Great job doing the research. My list was strictly off the top of my head and I will admit I did no research. (I did have a handful of your guys though) My point was Thompson has only played for 5 years... his career is not complete. I guess I just judge players differently from a lifetime aspect rather than a career that has not even been completed. Looking at career 3 point shooters I see percentage wise Thompson does not fall in the top 10.

1. Steve Kerr .4540
2. Stephen Curry .4431
3. Hubert Davis .4409
4. Drazen Petrovic* .4374
5. Jason Kapono .4336
6. Kyle Korver .4324
7. Steve Novak .4313
8. Tim Legler .4312
9. Steve Nash .4278
10. Anthony Morrow .4277
11. B.J. Armstrong .4250
12. Klay Thompson .4185

Doesn't mean he won't get there which I will say again I used the word "yet." If Thompson were to shoot the same amount of 3's for the next three years and he makes 33% of them is he still in your mind a " top 10 three point shooter?" It might not happen... but it could? Nobody can predict the future..

Let me give you this as an example.. Derrick Rose... rookie of the year, multiple conference finals appearances, multiple time all-star and the guy even won an MVP.... you got him in your "top 100 players of all time?" but come on.. he won awards that only the select few can say they have (ROY/MVP) He almost singlehandedly beat Miami with a team that had no offense.... so he's got to be "top 100" right?

People nowadays are very quick to put these titles or labels on people before they've really done/accomplished anything. Look at New York with Kristaps... the guy has played 20 games and you have fans already calling him "rookie of the year"," the next Dirk "... " one of the next all-time great players"... I know you're excited about your team.. world champions, about to "possibly?" repeat, has a shot at maybe the best season ever but let's sit back and enjoy... things can change in a heartbeat.

I like Thompson but as far as listing him as a "Reggie lite" or whatever the comparison was.. sorry... not buying it. 5 years vs a lifetime tells me different. Again these are just my "opinions" which I am entitled to and for those reasons... "I'm out".....

There are a few issues with that list though ... Kerr, Legler, and others on those lists played in the shortened line era which had a dramatic effect on percentages with those two players posting multiple seasons over .500 in those years.

Also, I made the point (but couldn't find the data) that the extended peak of a career could be considered more important than longevity, in which case Thompson's last 3 years in the NBA is (I think) top 10 all time among 3 year segments that don't include the shorter line.

There is data (I don't have time to look for it at the moment) that shows that shooting more 3s has a direct connection to shooting a lower percentage ... the fact that Thompson is shooting at a significantly higher rate than all but one player in NBA history and is still managing to do it at a high % is a significant indicator of his place in history.

Is anything decided yet? Nope. But it's certainly not unreasonable to put Klay in the top 10.

Hawkeye15
12-07-2015, 02:16 PM
Let's make it clearer to illustrate my point. Klay Thompson - right now, today - shoots the three ball at a volume and an efficiency that is better than 99.9% of those to ever play basketball, and it would squarely rank in the top ten all time to do so. Where he fits into a historical reference based on career stats, etc, is irrelevant. He's a 43% 3pt shooter who shoots it on massive volume. Like 8 players ever could do what he does.

to be fair, if many of the older gunners (Bird for example), came up in the new era, they would be doing it too.

tredigs
12-07-2015, 03:00 PM
Well said. Everyone are prisoners of the moment.

I think the appropriate thing to say is, "Klay has a good chance to be a top 10 3pt shooter of all time."

To Chronz: If Curry retired tomorrow then I can say, "I believe I witnessed the greatest shooter of all time." Nothing is wrong with that. But if I go and say he's factually the best shooter ever even if he retired tomorrow then I'm doing a disservice for those guys who excelled for many years. Longevity has to mean something when talking about all-time. Career has to happen, otherwise the determined time to become an "all-time" player becomes arbitrary.
There's no prisoner of the moment here. It's nostalgia of the past. Due to the points Scoots and I have mentioned, it is much easier to place him inside the top ten than out of it. But if it makes you guys feel better, we can simply call him a 99.9% level 3pt shooter and leave it at that. I believe my initial point that started this argument stands regardless of the semantics here.

tredigs
12-07-2015, 03:10 PM
to be fair, if many of the older gunners (Bird for example), came up in the new era, they would be doing it too.

Not at his efficiency though. To be already squarely in the top 15 efficiency wise on per-game volumes that rank in the top 3 all time sort of dispel that.

Bartlee23
12-07-2015, 03:13 PM
There are a few issues with that list though ... Kerr, Legler, and others on those lists played in the shortened line era which had a dramatic effect on percentages with those two players posting multiple seasons over .500 in those years.

Also, I made the point (but couldn't find the data) that the extended peak of a career could be considered more important than longevity, in which case Thompson's last 3 years in the NBA is (I think) top 10 all time among 3 year segments that don't include the shorter line.

There is data (I don't have time to look for it at the moment) that shows that shooting more 3s has a direct connection to shooting a lower percentage ... the fact that Thompson is shooting at a significantly higher rate than all but one player in NBA history and is still managing to do it at a high % is a significant indicator of his place in history.

Is anything decided yet? Nope. But it's certainly not unreasonable to put Klay in the top 10.

Good point... ok let's take Kerr... in the three seasons of the "shortened line era" Kerr shot .524,.515 and .464 percent... let's take those out (do I also get to take out 92-93 when he was 0-2?) He still shoots at an amazing high clip. Legler I'll give you... he very well could be an effect of the shortened line.. still was a great shooter though. Again that's great.. you have your opinion and I have mine. You are entitled to that.. agree to disagree?

Thompson is in your top 10... but he's not in mine.

Gander13SM
12-07-2015, 03:14 PM
There's no prisoner of the moment here. It's nostalgia of the past. Due to the points Scoots and I have mentioned, it is much easier to place him inside the top ten than out of it. But if it makes you guys feel better, we can simply call him a 99.9% level 3pt shooter and leave it at that. I believe my initial point that started this argument stands regardless of the semantics here.

There's a lot of that going around with these guys.

ewing
12-07-2015, 03:38 PM
Iguodala is shooting 45% from downtown. I think GS is cheating

Hawkeye15
12-07-2015, 03:44 PM
Not at his efficiency though. To be already squarely in the top 15 efficiency wise on per-game volumes that rank in the top 3 all time sort of dispel that.

But we don't know that. My only point is, the reason you have shooters now with such gaudy high volume efficiency from deep is because they were raised playing that way.

"Many" might have been a bad term. I am saying, the list wouldn't be all that short if the league understood the impact of the deep ball from it's inception. Hell, Curry hit more 3's by himself by game 4 of the finals last year than every team in the first "3 point" year did the entire playoffs.

Hawkeye15
12-07-2015, 03:46 PM
Trust me, Curry is the best shooter I have ever seen. But it's not JUST because he shoots so many and is still a high percentage shooter. It's because he defies the laws of shooting mechanics. Everything we were taught on shooting (not fading, being square on take off, follow through, not pulling the hand back on release, etc), he does it, and does it with ease.

He is like watching a video game. And it's actually hilarious watching teams trip over themselves to try and contain him.

lol, please
12-07-2015, 03:59 PM
But we don't know that. My only point is, the reason you have shooters now with such gaudy high volume efficiency from deep is because they were raised playing that way.

"Many" might have been a bad term. I am saying, the list wouldn't be all that short if the league understood the impact of the deep ball from it's inception. Hell, Curry hit more 3's by himself by game 4 of the finals last year than every team in the first "3 point" year did the entire playoffs.

Well said. Good post.

tredigs
12-07-2015, 04:00 PM
But we don't know that. My only point is, the reason you have shooters now with such gaudy high volume efficiency from deep is because they were raised playing that way.

"Many" might have been a bad term. I am saying, the list wouldn't be all that short if the league understood the impact of the deep ball from it's inception. Hell, Curry hit more 3's by himself by game 4 of the finals last year than every team in the first "3 point" year did the entire playoffs.

Well yeah, but that's a whole different convo. I'm taking the players at face value and saying if they were transplanted into this NBA where higher volume is the norm. Which, in that scenario there percentages would very likely take a slight dip overall if their volume doubled or tripled to Klay's volume. If they grew up practicing the shot relentlessly as he did, sure, there's room for argument there. But it is a different argument.

And agreed, Klay and Curry are not a fair comparison when it comes to 3pt shooting, but that goes for Curry and anyone. Most 3pt shooters are in Klay's mold, just on lesser volume/efficiency.

ewing
12-07-2015, 04:02 PM
But we don't know that. My only point is, the reason you have shooters now with such gaudy high volume efficiency from deep is because they were raised playing that way.

"Many" might have been a bad term. I am saying, the list wouldn't be all that short if the league understood the impact of the deep ball from it's inception. Hell, Curry hit more 3's by himself by game 4 of the finals last year than every team in the first "3 point" year did the entire playoffs.


It not that people just figured out that 3 was worth more then 2 either. Guys needed to grow up shooting it, having a bunch of guys on the floor at the same time that can shoot it changes things, different rules changed ect Pinto saw this coming in the 80s the players as a whole weren't ready for it yet and rules style of play weren't as conducive to it. That said Curry is the best shooter I've ever seen and Kaly is damn good too. I do agree you that guys like Reggie Miller, Chuck Person, Larry Bird etc would have taken a lot more 3s if they played today's NBA. It seems foolish to think otherwise.

Gander13SM
12-07-2015, 04:09 PM
What he (Curry) is doing right now defies all logic, he's transcending the game like only the legends have done.

It's not just a scorer having a good year or being "one of the top 5". It's a scorer doing something we have literally never seen before, the efficiency is mind boggling.

A guy on twitter summed it up best, he plotted a couple of graphs with USG% on the X axis and TS% on the Y. The trend that people would expect to see is a decrease in TS% the greater the USG% and vice versa, some would decrease more than others obviously just because of talent levels.

He took some of the seasons from some of the best players to play the game and where Steph Curry lands on the chart is hilarious...

[SPOILER TAG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVmDLw9UsAAidDE.png[/SPOILER TAG]

[SPOILER TAG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVmbVXqUAAAOwDM.png[/SPOILER TAG]


He can't keep this up, eventually Warriors WILL lose, that's obvious. And eventually Curry will have to cool down, maybe not in terms of raw production but his efficiency? Something has to give, the odds of him keeping this up for an entire season are beyond crazy.

What a start to the year though.

Hawkeye15
12-07-2015, 04:24 PM
It not that people just figured out that 3 was worth more then 2 either. Guys needed to grow up shooting it, having a bunch of guys on the floor at the same time that can shoot it changes things, different rules changed ect Pinto saw this coming in the 80s the players as a whole weren't ready for it yet and rules style of play weren't as conducive to it. That said Curry is the best shooter I've ever seen and Kaly is damn good too. I do agree you that guys like Reggie Miller, Chuck Person, Larry Bird etc would have taken a lot more 3s if they played today's NBA. It seems foolish to think otherwise.

Exactly. When the three point line was instituted, guys had never shot it. So it took a number of years to really incorporate it into the game.

Analytics have driven the long 2 out of the game. While anyone understands 3 is more than 2, the difference in the efficiency it drives up wasn't fully understood at first.

Scoots
12-07-2015, 04:25 PM
Even if Curry doesn't cool down himself ... Last I looked there were 8 Warriors over 40% from 3 ... there is no way that stays true ... and those players regressing will make things harder on Curry as it will increase his usage even higher while removing some more space.

Hawkeye15
12-07-2015, 04:25 PM
Well yeah, but that's a whole different convo. I'm taking the players at face value and saying if they were transplanted into this NBA where higher volume is the norm. Which, in that scenario there percentages would very likely take a slight dip overall if their volume doubled or tripled to Klay's volume. If they grew up practicing the shot relentlessly as he did, sure, there's room for argument there. But it is a different argument.

And agreed, Klay and Curry are not a fair comparison when it comes to 3pt shooting, but that goes for Curry and anyone. Most 3pt shooters are in Klay's mold, just on lesser volume/efficiency.

Klay's life is unfair though haha. I have never seen a shooter of his caliber get so many easy looks, because teams are more worried about his teammate 40 feet from the rim than they are Klay open in the corner.

That is straight up bs haha

TrueFan420
12-07-2015, 04:46 PM
Those two charts are nuts

lol, please
12-07-2015, 05:00 PM
What he (Curry) is doing right now defies all logic, he's transcending the game like only the legends have done.

It's not just a scorer having a good year or being "one of the top 5". It's a scorer doing something we have literally never seen before, the efficiency is mind boggling.

A guy on twitter summed it up best, he plotted a couple of graphs with USG% on the X axis and TS% on the Y. The trend that people would expect to see is a decrease in TS% the greater the USG% and vice versa, some would decrease more than others obviously just because of talent levels.

He took some of the seasons from some of the best players to play the game and where Steph Curry lands on the chart is hilarious...

[SPOILER TAG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVmDLw9UsAAidDE.png[/SPOILER TAG]

[SPOILER TAG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CVmbVXqUAAAOwDM.png[/SPOILER TAG]


He can't keep this up, eventually Warriors WILL lose, that's obvious. And eventually Curry will have to cool down, maybe not in terms of raw production but his efficiency? Something has to give, the odds of him keeping this up for an entire season are beyond crazy.

What a start to the year though.
Great post.

Look at how lonely Kobe looks in the top chart, and LeChoke looks on the bottom one. :laugh:

The only thing I disagree with here, is that Curry won't sustain. Curry will not just sustain, he will get better.

Exactly. When the three point line was instituted, guys had never shot it. So it took a number of years to really incorporate it into the game.

Analytics have driven the long 2 out of the game. While anyone understands 3 is more than 2, the difference in the efficiency it drives up wasn't fully understood at first.

Please explain what you mean here. Players shouldn't attempt long 2s? Even if they are inefficient at 3s?

Hawkeye15
12-07-2015, 05:04 PM
Great post.

Look at how lonely Kobe looks in the top chart, and LeChoke looks on the bottom one. :laugh:

The only thing I disagree with here, is that Curry won't sustain. Curry will not just sustain, he will get better.


Please explain what you mean here. Players shouldn't attempt long 2s? Even if they are inefficient at 3s?

The long 2 is the most inefficient shot in the game. Fact. It became that the moment the three point line was instituted. There is a reason why Kobe for instance, will never stack up, efficiency wise, to many other of the top players he gets compared to. He can't shoot 3's, and took too many long 2's. He is well above average at making them, but it still isn't a shot condusive to breeding efficiency.

Example: in 1991, when I was in 9th grade, I got pulled from a game for shooting a 19 footer. My coach just looked at me and said, "if you are going to take that shot, back up a foot and make it count more if you make it". This was well before advanced stats.

Gander13SM
12-07-2015, 05:07 PM
LolPlease, the odds of him keeping it up are really not good at all haha.

If he does people would have to seriously consider it as possibly being the greatest individual season any player has ever had in basketball history (in regards to scoring).

I just don't see it. I mean look at the charts lol it's just not realistic.

Hawkeye15
12-07-2015, 05:08 PM
Phillies, the odds of him keeping it up are really not good at all haha.

If he does people would have to seriously consider it as possibly being the greatest individual season any player has ever had in basketball history (in regards to scoring).

I just don't see it. I mean look at the charts :lol: it's just not realistic.

He may regress some, but we are witnessing a true outlier when it comes to shooting.

tredigs
12-07-2015, 05:09 PM
Phillies, the odds of him keeping it up are really not good at all haha.

If he does people would have to seriously consider it as possibly being the greatest individual season any player has ever had in basketball history (in regards to scoring).

I just don't see it. I mean look at the charts :lol: it's just not realistic.

per-36 minutes it's only behind Wilt's 50 pt season right now in scoring, and on a way, way higher shooting percentage. It's not entirely sustainable, but 50/45/90 on >30 PPG in 32-34 mpg seems like the place that he's at. Which is a top scoring season ever.

Gander13SM
12-07-2015, 05:10 PM
Those two charts are nuts

Yep.

I can't stop looking at them lmfao. It's just flat out ridiculous.

Scoots
12-07-2015, 06:31 PM
per-36 minutes it's only behind Wilt's 50 pt season right now in scoring, and on a way, way higher shooting percentage. It's not entirely sustainable, but 50/45/90 on >30 PPG in 32-34 mpg seems like the place that he's at. Which is a top scoring season ever.

Bill Simmons podcast? That's where I heard that stat ... totally amazing.

Here's another one:
Steph Curry is 4-of-10 on 30+ ft shots. CLE, HOU, LAC, LAL, ATL, BOS, BRK, CHA, DAL, DEN, MIL, NOP, ORL, PHX, SAS, UTA and WAS are 4-of-119. — Tom Haberstroh (@tomhaberstroh) December 3, 2015

Hawkeye15
12-07-2015, 06:34 PM
Bill Simmons podcast? That's where I heard that stat ... totally amazing.

Here's another one:
Steph Curry is 4-of-10 on 30+ ft shots. CLE, HOU, LAC, LAL, ATL, BOS, BRK, CHA, DAL, DEN, MIL, NOP, ORL, PHX, SAS, UTA and WAS are 4-of-119. — Tom Haberstroh (@tomhaberstroh) December 3, 2015

when Glen Rice was at Michigan, Iowa's coach said, "You have to guard him when he enters the building". I think you have to guard Curry when he gets out of his car in the parking lot.

There isn't much footage to find, but Iowa had a kid named Chris Kingsbury in the early 90's, with range that was unreal. He was a boozer though, so he ended up souring out. But he would pull up from 35 with a green light, 18 seconds to go on the clock.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2lxyVupqqS4

tredigs
12-07-2015, 11:55 PM
Bill Simmons podcast? That's where I heard that stat ... totally amazing.

Here's another one:
Steph Curry is 4-of-10 on 30+ ft shots. CLE, HOU, LAC, LAL, ATL, BOS, BRK, CHA, DAL, DEN, MIL, NOP, ORL, PHX, SAS, UTA and WAS are 4-of-119. — Tom Haberstroh (@tomhaberstroh) December 3, 2015

Coincidentally I saw it from Tom Haberstroh (who got it from a StatMuse tweet I think), who Simmons probably scooped it from (heard it on Simmons too). Yeah, saw that 30ft range stat from Tom off a SportsCenter segment also. Pretty crazy. Even if he can't always hit that shot at that clip, the fact that defenses now have to respect it and guard him that much farther out just makes life on his teammates that much easier. It's much more dangerous than Shaq's paint domination for that fact. Plus, you could foul Shaq and know you're getting a 50% foul shooter at the stripe. Foul Curry and you're essentially putting the GOAT foul shooter at the line (only him/Nash/Price are >90%).

Vee-Rex
12-08-2015, 12:31 AM
There's no prisoner of the moment here. It's nostalgia of the past. Due to the points Scoots and I have mentioned, it is much easier to place him inside the top ten than out of it. But if it makes you guys feel better, we can simply call him a 99.9% level 3pt shooter and leave it at that. I believe my initial point that started this argument stands regardless of the semantics here.

Listen, I get it.

Stephen Curry is having a beyond human year so far.

Klay Thompson's career so far is pointing in a top 10 3pt shooter of all time sort of direction.

But until Thompson's career is finished or close to finished, I cannot call him top 10. Maybe you can. Maybe the stats and eye test is showing you that he's top 5 for you. But I guarantee every other person on that top 10 list has had fans declaring them to be the best 3pt shooters they've seen.

I'd bet there's fans of the 10-20 list that had moments (multiple seasons) in which they believed their 3pt shooters were top 10.

3pt% at times can fluctuate significantly throughout a player's career, and most players experience a sharp decrease toward the end of their careers. Older you get, the more tired you get, the less lift on your shot you get, the less you are able to fight through screens, etc...

Just be fair, dude, and accept that a 5-year span isn't enough for some people to call your player top 10 in 3pt shooting. Now if Klay was shooting something astronomical or inhuman (55%) or something for his career then I can understand that.

Not being a prisoner of the moment has nothing to do with nostalgia because... well, these guys haven't even come close to finishing their careers, you know?

tredigs
12-08-2015, 12:42 AM
Listen, I get it.

Stephen Curry is having a beyond human year so far.

Klay Thompson's career so far is pointing in a top 10 3pt shooter of all time sort of direction.

But until Thompson's career is finished or close to finished, I cannot call him top 10. Maybe you can. Maybe the stats and eye test is showing you that he's top 5 for you. But I guarantee every other person on that top 10 list has had fans declaring them to be the best 3pt shooters they've seen.

I'd bet there's fans of the 10-20 list that had moments (multiple seasons) in which they believed their 3pt shooters were top 10.

3pt% at times can fluctuate significantly throughout a player's career, and most players experience a sharp decrease toward the end of their careers. Older you get, the more tired you get, the less lift on your shot you get, the less you are able to fight through screens, etc...

Just be fair, dude, and accept that a 5-year span isn't enough for some people to call your player top 10 in 3pt shooting. Now if Klay was shooting something astronomical or inhuman (55%) or something for his career then I can understand that.

Not being a prisoner of the moment has nothing to do with nostalgia because... well, these guys haven't even come close to finishing their careers, you know?

You have to understand that I don't care about career standing here. I'm saying that you have a peak/prime top-10 (call it 12 or 15 if it makes you feel better, but it's closer to 5 in reality) All-Time 3pt shooter in Klay Thompson.

This whole stupid side-bar started when Bartree tried to compare Steph Curry to Reggie Miller of this generation ("but with a better pass game"), and I laughed him out of the room while mentioning Klay Thompson is a much more apt comparison. Saying he was the Stoic/Non-Alpha version of Miller; A Reggie-lite in many ways. On a random team, our friend Bartlee thinks Curry is your standard 20 ppg scorer. This is the person who you are siding with in your debate.

Bartlee23
12-08-2015, 09:03 AM
You have to understand that I don't care about career standing here. I'm saying that you have a peak/prime top-10 (call it 12 or 15 if it makes you feel better, but it's closer to 5 in reality) All-Time 3pt shooter in Klay Thompson.

This whole stupid side-bar started when Bartree tried to compare Steph Curry to Reggie Miller of this generation ("but with a better pass game"), and I laughed him out of the room while mentioning Klay Thompson is a much more apt comparison. Saying he was the Stoic/Non-Alpha version of Miller; A Reggie-lite in many ways. On a random team, our friend Bartlee thinks Curry is your standard 20 ppg scorer. This is the person who you are siding with in your debate.

Please quote where I "compared Curry to Reggie of this generation?" While you're at it please quote where I said ANYTHING about "Curry is your "standard 20ppg scorer?????" Think you got the wrong guy pal.... weren't you the guy who watched cartoons and couldn't drink a beer?

Vee-Rex
12-08-2015, 11:23 AM
You have to understand that I don't care about career standing here. I'm saying that you have a peak/prime top-10 (call it 12 or 15 if it makes you feel better, but it's closer to 5 in reality) All-Time 3pt shooter in Klay Thompson.

This whole stupid side-bar started when Bartree tried to compare Steph Curry to Reggie Miller of this generation ("but with a better pass game"), and I laughed him out of the room while mentioning Klay Thompson is a much more apt comparison. Saying he was the Stoic/Non-Alpha version of Miller; A Reggie-lite in many ways. On a random team, our friend Bartlee thinks Curry is your standard 20 ppg scorer. This is the person who you are siding with in your debate.

I'm not on any -side- of this debate. I happened to agree with most of what he said in that one post. And it's true. If we're giving a guy top places on all-time lists after a 5 year career (and he isn't performing at an unprecedented level) then we are being prisoners of the moment.

And there isn't a counter-argument to that other than, "well i see how gud he iz an i know wut i see!"

People are starting to freak out that other people aren't worshipping these guys right away and it's like... chill out, give it time and things will sort themselves out.

tredigs
12-08-2015, 03:21 PM
I'm not on any -side- of this debate. I happened to agree with most of what he said in that one post. And it's true. If we're giving a guy top places on all-time lists after a 5 year career (and he isn't performing at an unprecedented level) then we are being prisoners of the moment.

And there isn't a counter-argument to that other than, "well i see how gud he iz an i know wut i see!"

People are starting to freak out that other people aren't worshipping these guys right away and it's like... chill out, give it time and things will sort themselves out.

Your annoying jibberish writing aside, there is a legitimate counter-argument. I'll make it crystal clear one last time then be done with the Klay Thompson portion of this debate: No player other than Stephen Curry has ever made more 3's in a season on a higher 3pt% than Klay Thompson. When a 3pt shooter has that stat on his resume, as well as two other seasons that rank top 30 in all time 3's made in a season, as well as having an overall 3pt% that ranks 12th best ever (where his per-game volume is so much higher than most above him), it's a very sound argument to call him top 10.

There's no need to see a larger sample size. He's made more career threes than Larry Bird. More than Steve Kerr. He'll pass John Stockton later tonight, and Mark Price before the season is over.

Bartlee23
12-08-2015, 04:38 PM
You have to understand that I don't care about career standing here. I'm saying that you have a peak/prime top-10 (call it 12 or 15 if it makes you feel better, but it's closer to 5 in reality) All-Time 3pt shooter in Klay Thompson.

This whole stupid side-bar started when Bartree tried to compare Steph Curry to Reggie Miller of this generation ("but with a better pass game"), and I laughed him out of the room while mentioning Klay Thompson is a much more apt comparison. Saying he was the Stoic/Non-Alpha version of Miller; A Reggie-lite in many ways. On a random team, our friend Bartlee thinks Curry is your standard 20 ppg scorer. This is the person who you are siding with in your debate.

Still waiting for the quotes??

tredigs
12-08-2015, 04:44 PM
Still waiting for the quotes??

Pardon, it was JoeD who initiated the Curry/Miller comparison, you just piled on his point when I said Klay was the better fit for that argument. I keep getting you two mixed up. But I think he stopped posting in here after my foreign player rebuttal post to him.

Vee-Rex
12-08-2015, 04:49 PM
Your annoying jibberish writing aside, there is a legitimate counter-argument. I'll make it crystal clear one last time then be done with the Klay Thompson portion of this debate: No player other than Stephen Curry has ever made more 3's in a season on a higher 3pt% than Klay Thompson.

Dude, you're cherry-picking specific stats and trying to use it to fuel an argument that will never be objectively decided until later on in that man's career. Do you realize how many 'records' I can name for guys as 3point shooters if I cherry-pick?

1. JR Smith has the most games where he has made 10 3's or more.
2. Kyle Korver is the only man in the history of the NBA who has finished above 47% in 3pt percentage THREE TIMES (Klay has never finished above 47%).
3. Steve Kerr is the only man in the history of the NBA to finish above 50% in 3pt percentage twice.

I could go on and on and on.

You're subjectively viewing Klay's 3pt fga as a main factor and using it to eliminate other candidates.

I'm saying that although his accolades are impressive and accurately reflect how gifted of a shooter he is, I cannot call him top 10 all time on 5 seasons alone. Won't do it for him, won't do it for any player in any category in the NBA. Ever. And there's nothing wrong with that.


There's no need to see a larger sample size. He's made more career threes than Larry Bird. More than Steve Kerr. He'll pass John Stockton later tonight, and Mark Price before the season is over.

LOL really? So has Ryan Anderson, J.J. Redick, Wesley Matthews, James Harden, Kevin Durant, Steve Blake, Danny Granger, Kirk Hinrich, Ben Gordon, etc... all has made more than the guys you listed.

Ryan Anderson has only played about 700 more minutes in his career than Thompson (about 25 games worth, so he is quite close in terms of production. Anderson is a career .424 3pt shooter, Klay is .444.) Yet NO one, not one person on here has even dared to call Anderson a top 10 all time 3pt shooter.

You dudes are getting worse and worse, and are so ridiculously chained up in the moment that next week we'll be declaring Klay and Steph as the best backcourt of all-time. Anyone not agreeing are 'uhh nozstaljik', amirite?

They're amazing, we all know that... and if you feel Klay is top 10, nothing's wrong with that. I just disagree.

Bartlee23
12-08-2015, 04:58 PM
Your annoying jibberish writing aside, there is a legitimate counter-argument. I'll make it crystal clear one last time then be done with the Klay Thompson portion of this debate: No player other than Stephen Curry has ever made more 3's in a season on a higher 3pt% than Klay Thompson. When a 3pt shooter has that stat on his resume, as well as two other seasons that rank top 30 in all time 3's made in a season, as well as having an overall 3pt% that ranks 12th best ever (where his per-game volume is so much higher than most above him), it's a very sound argument to call him top 10.

There's no need to see a larger sample size. He's made more career threes than Larry Bird. More than Steve Kerr. He'll pass John Stockton later tonight, and Mark Price before the season is over.

Peja Stojaovic 2007-2008 .441 on 524 attempts... probably more people but to be honest with you I'm getting kind of tired... anything else you want to get wrong?

tredigs
12-08-2015, 05:04 PM
Cherry picking stats? Rather than get up in a huff, why not provide me more important 3pt shooting stats for declaring the best prime 3pt shooters than 3pt% and 3pt volume? The importance of Klay having more 3's made than the players I mentioned is because you seem to have an issue with declaring him in the discussion after just 5 years, yet his sample size is larger than others who you would be very willing to discuss as top 10. Them doing it on a lower volume over more years does not help their case, I'd argue it helps Klay's.

Also, Ryan Anderson is a career 37.8% 3pt shooter and has never reached 42.4%. What are you talking about?

Vee-Rex
12-08-2015, 05:06 PM
Peja Stojaovic 2007-2008 .441 on 524 attempts... probably more people but to be honest with you I'm getting kind of tired... anything else you want to get wrong?

Damn beat me to it... I was just looking up Peja.

Anyway, no hard feelings towards you guys. I'd be ultra excited too if I was a fan of the Dubs and had Curry/Klay on my team.

tredigs
12-08-2015, 05:07 PM
Peja Stojaovic 2007-2008 .441 on 524 attempts... probably more people but to be honest with you I'm getting kind of tired... anything else you want to get wrong?


Damn beat me to it... I was just looking up Peja.

Anyway, no hard feelings towards you guys. I'd be ultra excited too if I was a fan of the Dubs and had Curry/Klay on my team.



Klay Thompson last year made 239 threes on 545 attempts on 43.9%. Peja's 231 on 44.1% were easily the closest to eclipsing the point that I made, but no. My point was still correct.

Anything else I need to spoon feed to you two?

Vee-Rex
12-08-2015, 05:14 PM
Cherry picking stats? Rather than get up in a huff, why not provide me more important 3pt shooting stats for declaring the best prime 3pt shooters than 3pt% and 3pt volume? The importance of Klay having more 3's made than the players I mentioned is because you seem to have an issue with declaring him in the discussion after just 5 years, yet his sample size is larger than others who you would be very willing to discuss as top 10. Them doing it on a lower volume over more years does not help their case, I'd argue it helps Klay's.

Also, Ryan Anderson is a career 37.8% 3pt shooter and has never reached 42.4%. What are you talking about?

I'm not up in a huff, more like in disbelief.

I just looked Anderson up and was looking at the wrong numbers. My bad on that. That was in response to the point you were trying to make.

In terms of lower volume, a lot of that had to do with them simply not getting as many minutes as Klay.

The reason why 5 years is not enough is because his 3pt % is much more easily molded. Even with a lot of 3pa, an off year or two can mean he'd drop 15-20 spots on the all-time percentage list. One off year could vastly change everything you're arguing about.

Klay is ON PACE and looks like he'll end up top 10, if not top 5. But 3pt shooters have such enormous fluctuations in their 3pt percentages that I can't crown him that right now.

That's just... basic logic. I don't see what's so hard to understand about that.

Bartlee23
12-08-2015, 05:15 PM
Klay Thompson last year made 239 threes on 545 attempts on 43.9%. Peja's 231 on 44.1% were easily the closest to eclipsing the point that I made, but no. My point was still correct.

Anything else I need to spoon feed to you two?

Not really.. I already see who the baby is here...look man I would never of came back if you didn't throw me under the bus saying something I NEVER said.... cool you have your beliefs, I have mine. Go reread my Derrick Rose comparison and let's see if you feel the same way in another 5 years... sorry your "point" was not correct.

valade16
12-08-2015, 05:31 PM
Klay Thompson's 5 seasons his 3PT% (by worst to best) have been:

40.1%
41.4%
41.7%
42.0%
43.9%

That is remarkably consistent. I don't think it's reasonable to assume he's going to have multiple seasons so bad it will drop him markedly on the all-time list.

In fact, I think a good statistical comparison is Reggie Miller (despite me thinking Reggie was a more impactful overall player).

For 12 seasons (1989-2000) Reggie was remarkably consistent having only 1 truly sub-par shooting season (34.8%). He eclipsed 40% 8/12 times during that run (and was at 39.9% in the other).

So it's not outside the realm of possibility to suggest a 3PT Shooter as good as Klay will stay relatively consistent %-wise throughout his career.

tredigs
12-08-2015, 05:41 PM
Not really.. I already see who the baby is here...look man I would never of came back if you didn't throw me under the bus saying something I NEVER said.... cool you have your beliefs, I have mine. Go reread my Derrick Rose comparison and let's see if you feel the same way in another 5 years... sorry your "point" was not correct.
You tried to call me out, was rude about it, and yet hilariously you were wrong.

Now it's "you have your belief I have mine". That's called a white flag.

But agreed, moving on.

Vee-Rex
12-08-2015, 05:49 PM
Klay Thompson's 5 seasons his 3PT% (by worst to best) have been:

40.1%
41.4%
41.7%
42.0%
43.9%

That is remarkably consistent. I don't think it's reasonable to assume he's going to have multiple seasons so bad it will drop him markedly on the all-time list.

In fact, I think a good statistical comparison is Reggie Miller (despite me thinking Reggie was a more impactful overall player).

For 12 seasons (1989-2000) Reggie was remarkably consistent having only 1 truly sub-par shooting season (34.8%). He eclipsed 40% 8/12 times during that run (and was at 39.9% in the other).

So it's not outside the realm of possibility to suggest a 3PT Shooter as good as Klay will stay relatively consistent %-wise throughout his career.

I just used those numbers. The average is .418 for his FG percentage.

I gave him 4 more seasons at .418% and just one season at .34%, so that his total seasons are at 10 seasons. Averaged it out and he drops to a tie at 18th/19th overall in NBA history.

That's just one off season. Do 2 off seasons using the same metric and it's 28th/29th.

Now I don't believe he'll have 2 off seasons, but one in the next 4 years is entirely possible and could change his outlook altogether. He's definitely on pace, though.

Bartlee23
12-08-2015, 05:55 PM
You tried to call me out, was rude about it, and yet hilariously you were wrong.

Now it's "you have your belief I have mine". That's called a white flag.

But agreed, moving on.

No "white flag" here pal... where exactly was I wrong? Already you "mistaken" me for someone else, was WRONG in your point about three pointers/percentage in a season and basically every "point" you've tried to make(and failed) was based upon projections and your opinions which are something you CAN'T predict.

You just don't understand how pigheaded and childish you are? Where exactly was I "wrong ???" The only one "hilarious" here is you and your "predictions".... see Derrick Rose.

tredigs
12-08-2015, 06:03 PM
No "white flag" here pal... where exactly was I wrong? Already you "mistaken" me for someone else, was WRONG in your point about three pointers/percentage in a season and basically every "point" you've tried to make(and failed) was based upon projections and your opinions which are something you CAN'T predict.

You just don't understand how pigheaded and childish you are? Where exactly was I "wrong ???" The only one "hilarious" here is you and your "predictions".... see Derrick Rose.


No player other than Stephen Curry has ever made more 3's in a season on a higher 3pt% than Klay Thompson.


Bartlee, what's a bigger number: Two-hundred thirty nine (Klay), or two-hundred thirty one (Peja)?

Can you stop quoting me and embarrassing yourself so this can be done here?

I literally have to spell this out for you because the first two attempts are not working.

Vee-Rex
12-08-2015, 06:06 PM
Bartlee, what's a bigger number: Two-hundred thirty nine (Klay), or two-hundred thirty one (Peja)?

Can you stop quoting me and embarrassing yourself so this can be done here?

I literally have to spell this out for you because the first two attempts are not working.

It's literally so close that it makes using it as a backbone for your argument rather... silly, don't you think?

Bartlee23
12-08-2015, 06:12 PM
Bartlee, what's a bigger number: Two-hundred thirty nine (Klay), or two-hundred thirty one (Peja)?

Can you stop quoting me and embarrassing yourself so this can be done here?

I literally have to spell this out for you because the first two attempts are not working.

If you want to call 8 more 3's made (yet Peja shot a HIGHER percentage...) you win... unfortunately again EVERY other point you "attempted" to make was on projection for the future which you can't do.

Thompson is a great shooter but you're predicting the end of the movie before it even started. Again I'll ask you the same question I asked the other guy... if Thompson shoots the same amount of three's for the next three years and only makes 33% of them.... is he a top 10 three point shooter of all time??? It may not happen... but it COULD !!!!!!!!!!!!!! You don't know this information making everything you have said INVALID.. give it up, enjoy your team, players, "maybe" a historical year/championship.. but sorry you are so wrong on this and you just don't get it.

tredigs
12-08-2015, 06:12 PM
It's literally so close that it makes using it as a backbone for your argument rather... silly, don't you think?

Uh no, it doesn't. I did not use it to directly compare Klay to Peja. It was a blanket statement to compare Klay's peak 3pt shooting to every other person in NBA history. You both called it out as incorrect for some dumb reason, and you were both wrong.

Gagan136
12-08-2015, 06:34 PM
Ray Allen
Peja
Reggie
Curry
Drazen
Korver
Bird
Nash
Rice

All three point shooters i would take over klay

jerellh528
12-08-2015, 06:35 PM
Klay Thompson's 5 seasons his 3PT% (by worst to best) have been:

40.1%
41.4%
41.7%
42.0%
43.9%

That is remarkably consistent. I don't think it's reasonable to assume he's going to have multiple seasons so bad it will drop him markedly on the all-time list.

In fact, I think a good statistical comparison is Reggie Miller (despite me thinking Reggie was a more impactful overall player).

For 12 seasons (1989-2000) Reggie was remarkably consistent having only 1 truly sub-par shooting season (34.8%). He eclipsed 40% 8/12 times during that run (and was at 39.9% in the other).

So it's not outside the realm of possibility to suggest a 3PT Shooter as good as Klay will stay relatively consistent %-wise throughout his career.

Yeah the only thing we don't know about klay is if he could still produce those #s as the main shooter on the team that defenses have to deal with. Put him on a team with no curry and let's see how he does, curry draws sooooo much attention that pretty much everyone on the warriors are shooting lights out, where guys like Miller and peja were the shooters on their respective teams that defenses accounted for. Not saying klay is anything less than a fantastic shooter and I really like klay, but he's got a pretty substantial advantage over some of the others since he's got curry who absorbs defenders like a black hole.

Vee-Rex
12-08-2015, 06:42 PM
Uh no, it doesn't. I did not use it to directly compare Klay to Peja. It was a blanket statement to compare Klay's peak 3pt shooting to every other person in NBA history. You both called it out as incorrect for some dumb reason, and you were both wrong.

Uh, you used it as a backbone. Here's your quote:


I'll make it crystal clear one last time then be done with the Klay Thompson portion of this debate: No player other than Stephen Curry has ever made more 3's in a season on a higher 3pt% than Klay Thompson.

You absolutely used it as a backbone when Peja only had 8 less 3point shots made. 8 less. Then you went on to cherry-pick random (while impressive, I showed I could do the same with other shooters) statistics in order to 'strengthen' your assertion that Klay Thompson is right now, indisputably a top 10 3pt shooter of all-time.

I've shown how 1 'off' season in the next 4 years could drop him down the all-time 3pt list by roughly 60% (12th place to 19th place).

You're the one overreacting here to others that are simply saying Klay isonpacebutnotyet to being top 10 all-time.

tredigs
12-08-2015, 06:51 PM
Yeah the only thing we don't know about klay is if he could still produce those #s as the main shooter on the team that defenses have to deal with. Put him on a team with no curry and let's see how he does, curry draws sooooo much attention that pretty much everyone on the warriors are shooting lights out, where guys like Miller and peja were the shooters on their respective teams that defenses accounted for. Not saying klay is anything less than a fantastic shooter and I really like klay, but he's got a pretty substantial advantage over some of the others since he's got curry who absorbs defenders like a black hole.

Hawk brought that up and while it's a valid comment, very few of those in a top ten 3pt shooting list would be described as #1 offensive options on their team. We talk about Kerr in this discussion and the guy was a super low volume 3pt shooter who played with Michael Jordan and spent part of his career under the benefit of a shortened 3pt line (his highest volume/top% seasons). I'd say that's a bigger benefit than playing with Curry. Especially when we see how Klay can just absolutely erupt on teams at times, regardless of how tough the D is. The guy probably makes three triples a week that are a higher degree of difficulty than most in Kerr's career. Somebody could probably find his on/off #'s with Curry and see how it plays, though. Would be interesting to see.

@Vee-Rex, the fact that one of the greatest 3pt shooters ever had a single season that came close to making my point false, does not in fact make my point false. Don't be bitter that you both don't understand how to fact check. The "backbone" was that it was him versus everybody ever, not him v Peja.

Hawkeye15
12-08-2015, 07:56 PM
Yeah the only thing we don't know about klay is if he could still produce those #s as the main shooter on the team that defenses have to deal with. Put him on a team with no curry and let's see how he does, curry draws sooooo much attention that pretty much everyone on the warriors are shooting lights out, where guys like Miller and peja were the shooters on their respective teams that defenses accounted for. Not saying klay is anything less than a fantastic shooter and I really like klay, but he's got a pretty substantial advantage over some of the others since he's got curry who absorbs defenders like a black hole.

bingo. Put Klay on the Wolves, who have zero three point shooters. Teams aren't leaving him in the corner alone so they can cover our PG 40 feet from the rim on the other side haha.

Not saying he wouldn't still be a great shooter. But he has the best shooter EVER to attract attention next to him. That matters.

Hawkeye15
12-08-2015, 07:57 PM
Hawk brought that up and while it's a valid comment, very few of those in a top ten 3pt shooting list would be described as #1 offensive options on their team. We talk about Kerr in this discussion and the guy was a super low volume 3pt shooter who played with Michael Jordan and spent part of his career under the benefit of a shortened 3pt line (his highest volume/top% seasons). I'd say that's a bigger benefit than playing with Curry. Especially when we see how Klay can just absolutely erupt on teams at times, regardless of how tough the D is. The guy probably makes three triples a week that are a higher degree of difficulty than most in Kerr's career. Somebody could probably find his on/off #'s with Curry and see how it plays, though. Would be interesting to see.

@Vee-Rex, the fact that one of the greatest 3pt shooters ever had a single season that came close to making my point false, does not in fact make my point false. Don't be bitter that you both don't understand how to fact check. The "backbone" was that it was him versus everybody ever, not him v Peja.

Which is what makes Curry so unique. Outside Bird, are any of the top 10 shooters #1 options on their teams over time? Hell most were snipers by trade.

And Tre, I love ya buddy, but you need to go back to bed, and get up on the right side today haha

Vee-Rex
12-08-2015, 08:02 PM
@Vee-Rex, the fact that one of the greatest 3pt shooters ever had a single season that came close to making my point false, does not in fact make my point false. Don't be bitter that you both don't understand how to fact check. The "backbone" was that it was him versus everybody ever, not him v Peja.

Doesn't make your point false, it makes it significantly weaker.

It's like if I say X player (who has only played 4 seasons in his career) has made the most blocks in a season and use that as the backbone of my argument to say he is a top 10 blocker all-time, when another blocker came just several short (and had a much more successful career).

I would normally call it idiotic but if someone is a fan, they'll obviously be biased. Especially if their team is wrecking the league in record fashion and just won a ring. I get that.

However, I'm not gonna drink the koolaid about someone being top 10 all-time after just 4 seasons. That would be truly bonkers.

tredigs
12-08-2015, 08:18 PM
No, you know what player would significantly weaken my point? If Ryan Anderson was the closest player to eclipse Klay's #'s in 2014/15. Not an All-Time great 3pt shooter.

Your argument skills are so lacking.

Fun fact: First quarter is half way through and Klay is about to tie John Stockton's career 3pt total with his next shot.

Vee-Rex
12-08-2015, 08:21 PM
We love you, Tre. :laugh:

tredigs
12-08-2015, 08:27 PM
Annnnd down goes Stockton. Next.

tredigs
12-08-2015, 08:54 PM
Klay Thompson went 9 for 9 from three in ONE quarter. On only 25 instances has any player made more than 9 threes in an entire game.

I'll just keep posting fun facts here and there.

valade16
12-08-2015, 08:55 PM
Yeah the only thing we don't know about klay is if he could still produce those #s as the main shooter on the team that defenses have to deal with. Put him on a team with no curry and let's see how he does, curry draws sooooo much attention that pretty much everyone on the warriors are shooting lights out, where guys like Miller and peja were the shooters on their respective teams that defenses accounted for. Not saying klay is anything less than a fantastic shooter and I really like klay, but he's got a pretty substantial advantage over some of the others since he's got curry who absorbs defenders like a black hole.

Agreed, which is why I said I still consider Reggie Miller better because he was able to shoot that well as the #1 option and lead the Pacers to the ECF multiple times and the Finals once.

But then again, the only 2 guys remotely close to Klay's PPG ahead of him on the 3PT% list are Drazen Petrovic and Steve Nash. So I think there is something to be said about Klay being a 17+ PPG scorer who shoots so well from deep, even if he is not the #1 option and enjoys a lot of space thanks to the attention Curry gets.

Gander13SM
12-08-2015, 09:07 PM
That 3 Klay just made where George reached and he spun around then just splashed the shot still off balance.

99% of the other names on that list you guys posted could never have done that.

tredigs
12-08-2015, 09:12 PM
Fun fact: Klay Thompson just made 8 threes (8-10) in the first half versus the Pacers.

The most threes made by these payers ever in a single (full) game:

Steve Nash: 8 (only time he made more than 7)

Ray Allen: 10 (only time he made more than 8)

Peja: 10 (only time he made more than 7)

Steve Kerr: 5

Reggie Miller: 8 (accomplished 2x)

Gander13SM
12-08-2015, 09:16 PM
8 in the first half... nba record for most 3s by one player in a single game is 12.

Took Kobe 37 minutes to set that record.

Klay has played 18 minutes so far.

tredigs
12-08-2015, 09:24 PM
Reggie Miller got his 8 on 16 attempts. Klay could sit the 2nd half of tonights game and it would be a better 3pt shooting night than Reggie Millers best ever. He was being defended by Paul George.

Gagan136
12-08-2015, 09:25 PM
8 in the first half... nba record for most 3s by one player in a single game is 12.

Took Kobe 37 minutes to set that record.

Klay has played 18 minutes so far.

Hey now dont forget about Donyell Marshall lol

nastynice
12-08-2015, 09:47 PM
My mistake.... I didn't know I was talking to an "expert." "HE JUST IS"... well you convinced me... sorry to question your expertise....lol.

Wow... now Thompson is " one of the best ten 3pt shooters of all time???" So Golden State has TWO of the greatest 3pt shooters of all time??? I just don't know what to say. Thompson has proved basically "nothing" in his career yet Reggie is a hall of famer,one of the top players to ever play the game and has the history to prove it? I will respectfully bow out of this conversation because it proved what I said before " either too young, short memory, or not very educated"... I wonder which one it is?

relax, old man, no one cares about another one of your cookie cutter rants about how great you are since you started watching basketball since the days they'd shoot in a bucket and climb a ladder to get the ball out!




lol, i'm just ****in with u, don't take it serious!

Bartlee23
12-08-2015, 09:49 PM
Fun fact...

Most 3-point field goals made in a game
12 by Kobe Bryant, Los Angeles Lakers (vs. Seattle SuperSonics) on January 7, 2003 (12/18)[5]
12 by Donyell Marshall, Toronto Raptors (vs. Philadelphia 76ers) on March 13, 2005 (12/19)

Most 3-point field goals attempted in a game
22 by J. R. Smith, New York Knicks (at Miami Heat) on April 6, 2014 (10/22)[6]

Most 3-point field goals made in a half
10 by Chandler Parsons, Houston Rockets (vs. Memphis Grizzlies) on January 24, 2014 (10/11)

Most 3-point field goals made in a game, no misses
9 by Latrell Sprewell, New York Knicks (vs. Los Angeles Clippers) on February 4, 2003
9 by Ben Gordon, Chicago Bulls (vs. Washington Wizards) on April 14, 2006
9 by Ben Gordon, Detroit Pistons (at Denver Nuggets) on March 21, 2012

Most consecutive 3-point field goals made to start a game
10 by Ty Lawson, Denver Nuggets (vs. Minnesota Timberwolves) on April 9, 2011 (10/11)

Most 3-point field goals attempted in a game, none made
11 by Antoine Walker, Boston Celtics (vs. Philadelphia 76ers) on December 17, 2001
11 by Trey Burke, Utah Jazz (vs. Atlanta Hawks) on January 2, 2015[

Highest 3-point field goal percentage
53.6% by Kyle Korver, 2009–10

Most 3-point field goals made
286 by Stephen Curry, 2014–15

Highest 3-point field goal percentage
45.4% by Steve Kerr

Most consecutive 3-point field goals made
13 by Brent Price from January 15–19, 1996 and Terry Mills from December 4–7, 1996

Wow... Thompson just made 8 three pointers in the first half and Reggie never did this ??? My apologies... he MUST be better than Reggie... I guess Chandler Parsons must be the GOAT because he made 10? and Brent Price made 13 straight... there's hall of fame material right there.... lol.

Don't you get what a JOKE this has become? What are you going to say when he goes 1-6 one day?? Had a bad game ?? Ball was "deflated ?? " Thompson should probably sit the rest of the game... he wouldn't want to hurt Reggie's feelings.

tredigs
12-08-2015, 09:52 PM
You know when all factors start pointing in one direction? Yeah, you might want to take notice.

Anyway, Klay finishes 10 for 14. Top 10 3pt performance ever. In less than 3 quarters of action.

Gander13SM
12-08-2015, 09:53 PM
They should have let him play the 4th. Would've wrecked that record.

Bartlee23
12-08-2015, 09:57 PM
relax, old man, no one cares about another one of your cookie cutter rants about how great you are since you started watching basketball since the days they'd shoot in a bucket and climb a ladder to get the ball out!



lol, i'm just ****in with u, don't take it serious!


Actually my friend I'm not that old.. just use common sense. I've read some of you're posts and you've got good opinions/ideas on things but go back and read any of my posts on this and tell me you disagree with any of it and why. ( Without using the words if,could,might,etc) This seems to be an issue..

Allphakenny1
12-08-2015, 10:56 PM
The problem here is why do people generally assume Curry is a top ten 3pt shooter, most say he's the best 3pt shooter ever, but Thompson is not. Before this year, Thompson was on pace to make more than Curry for his career. Not sure if that stat still holds now. If we have a large enough sample size, and I think 5 years is large enough, then we should be able to project. All projections say that Thompson should be an all time top ten 3pt shooter at the end of his career.

Allphakenny1
12-08-2015, 11:00 PM
BTW, I am not saying that Thompson is better than Curry. I am saying if we assume Curry is top ten when he is around top 30 all time right now, then we should be able to project Thompson as well. Or else we should say that Curry is not even atop 30 all time 3pt shooter; how ridiculous does that sound?

ewing
12-08-2015, 11:43 PM
Which is what makes Curry so unique. Outside Bird, are any of the top 10 shooters #1 options on their teams over time? Hell most were snipers by trade.

And Tre, I love ya buddy, but you need to go back to bed, and get up on the right side today haha

You know who was

ewing
12-08-2015, 11:56 PM
No, you know what player would significantly weaken my point? If Ryan Anderson was the closest player to eclipse Klay's #'s in 2014/15. Not an All-Time great 3pt shooter.

Your argument skills are so lacking.

Fun fact: First quarter is half way through and Klay is about to tie John Stockton's career 3pt total with his next shot.

you win

valade16
12-09-2015, 10:28 AM
Reggie Miller got his 8 on 16 attempts. Klay could sit the 2nd half of tonights game and it would be a better 3pt shooting night than Reggie Millers best ever. He was being defended by Paul George.

I see what you're saying... but...

Scott Skiles has more assists in a game than John Stockton (or anyone else for that matter).

At passing: Scott Skiles > John Stockton

Scoots
12-09-2015, 11:31 AM
Reggie was better than Thompson has been. But it's closer than I would have expected a couple years ago.

tredigs
12-09-2015, 02:53 PM
I see what you're saying... but...

Scott Skiles has more assists in a game than John Stockton (or anyone else for that matter).

At passing: Scott Skiles > John Stockton

Oh word, does Skiles also have multiple top assists per game seasons all time under his belt to help supplement that fun little factoid? Does he have one of the best Assist:TO ratios in NBA history?

See my last statement: When all factors start pointing in one direction, it's wise to take notice. Alk earlier brought up a point that none of you could quote or refute and it has massive relevance. Many already consider Curry the best 3pt shooter (some overall shooter) in NBA history. Yet, it's asinine for others to be able to do the same for Klay as top ten from 3pt range despite the piles of evidence he's built? Yeah, not for me. This is not a homer thing, I could care less what team he's on. Hell, I laugh at the fact that Klay's considered an All-NBA level defensive talent and I was vehement that Jimmy Butler > Klay when that debate was brought up last year. But, as a 3pt gunner, there are simply not 10 players ever to do it better than him. And all the evidence suggests I'm correct.

ewing
12-09-2015, 03:11 PM
Oh word, does Skiles also have multiple top assists per game seasons all time under his belt to help supplement that fun little factoid? Does he have one of the best Assist:TO ratios in NBA history?

See my last statement: When all factors start pointing in one direction, it's wise to take notice. Alk earlier brought up a point that none of you could quote or refute and it has massive relevance. Many already consider Curry the best 3pt shooter (some overall shooter) in NBA history. Yet, it's asinine for others to be able to do the same for Klay as top ten from 3pt range despite the piles of evidence he's built? Yeah, not for me. This is not a homer thing, I could care less what team he's on. Hell, I laugh at the fact that Klay's considered an All-NBA level defensive talent and I was vehement that Jimmy Butler > Klay when that debate was brought up last year. But, as a 3pt gunner, there are simply not 10 players ever to do it better than him. And all the evidence suggests I'm correct.


your problem is you care about evidence

DFSgold
12-09-2015, 03:27 PM
That was an amazing performance. It's fun to watch these guys having fun every night.

valade16
12-09-2015, 03:44 PM
Oh word, does Skiles also have multiple top assists per game seasons all time under his belt to help supplement that fun little factoid? Does he have one of the best Assist:TO ratios in NBA history?

See my last statement: When all factors start pointing in one direction, it's wise to take notice. Alk earlier brought up a point that none of you could quote or refute and it has massive relevance. Many already consider Curry the best 3pt shooter (some overall shooter) in NBA history. Yet, it's asinine for others to be able to do the same for Klay as top ten from 3pt range despite the piles of evidence he's built? Yeah, not for me. This is not a homer thing, I could care less what team he's on. Hell, I laugh at the fact that Klay's considered an All-NBA level defensive talent and I was vehement that Jimmy Butler > Klay when that debate was brought up last year. But, as a 3pt gunner, there are simply not 10 players ever to do it better than him. And all the evidence suggests I'm correct.

I agree regarding the consensus of evidence pointing one direction. I don't know if I'd call Klay Top 10 all-time yet, but he's certainly around that area and he'll probably move way up.

I was more so pointing out that one game better than Reggie Miller or Ray Allen doesn't necessarily make him better than those 2.

I've always been high on Klay (as you might remember, I said he was better than Draymond and apparently, I was very wrong). He's certainly at or near the top 10 best 3PT shooters ever.

tredigs
12-09-2015, 04:01 PM
I agree regarding the consensus of evidence pointing one direction. I don't know if I'd call Klay Top 10 all-time yet, but he's certainly around that area and he'll probably move way up.

I was more so pointing out that one game better than Reggie Miller or Ray Allen doesn't necessarily make him better than those 2.

I've always been high on Klay (as you might remember, I said he was better than Draymond and apparently, I was very wrong). He's certainly at or near the top 10 best 3PT shooters ever.

Yeah, I certainly wouldn't point to a single stat either. It's definitely a mounting of evidence thing. And to be honest it was not even about Reggie/Klay specifically, he just happened to be the All-Time shooting great known for massive 3pt barrages who I decided to use in that comment.

And yeah, the reason Draymond is better is because he effects the game all over the place. It's extremely rare that his stamp is not all over the place in Warriors wins. Klay... Klay can get lost outside of his 3pt shot a bit more than I'd like.

lol, please
12-09-2015, 04:45 PM
Klay Thompson went 9 for 9 from three in ONE quarter. On only 25 instances has any player made more than 9 threes in an entire game.

I'll just keep posting fun facts here and there.

http://forums.prosportsdaily.com/showthread.php?902104-Which-of-These-Two-Players-is-was-a-Better-3pt-Shooter

Wrigheyes4MVP
12-11-2015, 01:46 PM
It's still too soon to say he is the best, but he is clearly playing the best this season and you could argue last season (although I would say no to last season). I thought Lebron and a healthy Durant were slightly better overall than Curry before this season. Let's see how the rest of the year plays out. So far this year though, he has been the best by a mile. It's still a relatively small sample size and its not like Durant and Lebron are disappearing all of a sudden. He's one of the top 3 for sure and is playing the best this season is the more accurate way to describe it.

It's like Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic. Lebron is like Federer, the great player who is still great but may be regressing just a bit and is losing his title as the best. He still has plenty left in the tank though. Durant is like Nadal, the guy who probably has the best all around talent but injuries have become a problem for him and have taken their toll. Curry is like Djokovic, the new #1 player in the world who is dominating and setting records. How about that... a tennis analogy.

If Curry keeps it up, he'll do what Djokovic did and fully establish himself as the best in the world. But, he's still a year or two away from establishing it. If his game slips a bit or an injury occurs, Lebron and Durant are both close enough to overtake him again. If this was a power rankings though, I'd have Curry at #1 at the moment. Hard to deny he is playing the best right now. I'd really like to see if he is still having the best season by the end of the year though. Overall I think its still close enough between the 3 top guys to not have a clear answer even though Curry's arrow is pointing up.

tredigs
12-11-2015, 01:59 PM
It's still too soon to say he is the best, but he is clearly playing the best this season and you could argue last season (although I would say no to last season). I thought Lebron and a healthy Durant were slightly better overall than Curry before this season. Let's see how the rest of the year plays out. So far this year though, he has been the best by a mile. It's still a relatively small sample size and its not like Durant and Lebron are disappearing all of a sudden. He's one of the top 3 for sure and is playing the best this season is the more accurate way to describe it.

It's like Federer, Nadal, and Djokovic. Lebron is like Federer, the great player who is still great but may be regressing just a bit and is losing his title as the best. He still has plenty left in the tank though. Durant is like Nadal, the guy who probably has the best all around talent but injuries have become a problem for him and have taken their toll. Curry is like Djokovic, the new #1 player in the world who is dominating and setting records. How about that... a tennis analogy.

If Curry keeps it up, he's heading for that title of best in the world. But, he's still a year or two away from establishing it. If his game slips a bit or an injury occurs, Lebron and Durant are both close enough to overtake him again. If this was a power rankings though, I'd have Curry at #1 at the moment. Hard to deny he is playing the best right now. I'd really like to see if he is still having the best season by the end of the year though.

It's an interesting and common way of looking at it. So, let's say two years from now he's still playing at a similar level and is above everyone else. Do you then tack on the prior years that you didn't include him as the best in the world because you now came to accept that he was?

Hawkeye15
12-11-2015, 02:23 PM
It's an interesting and common way of looking at it. So, let's say two years from now he's still playing at a similar level and is above everyone else. Do you then tack on the prior years that you didn't include him as the best in the world because you now came to accept that he was?

That is exactly how it works. LeBron became the best player in the world in 2007. But it wasn't until 2009-10' or so, where people began to really agree that he indeed had been the best player for a few years.

It's always hard when the new kid on the block starts kicking everyones butts, to realize you just witnessed a change of the guard.

tredigs
12-11-2015, 03:03 PM
That is exactly how it works. LeBron became the best player in the world in 2007. But it wasn't until 2009-10' or so, where people began to really agree that he indeed had been the best player for a few years.

It's always hard when the new kid on the block starts kicking everyones butts, to realize you just witnessed a change of the guard.

Seems a little different in Curry's case because I feel like most (not all) of the time you have the build up of the player as being top 3 for a few years before he wins the ring, and once that rings come is when the torch is considered passed (so long as his day to day play is still the best). That's how it was for MJ, how it was for Shaq, and how it was for Lebron. A lot of people still latched on to Kobe as #1 until '10/'11 because Kobe was the MVP in '08 and in the following two seasons he was still All NBA 1st Team Defensive + Overall and was the Finals MVP both years. It took the Lakers finally falling short in the playoffs for the narrative to completely shift to Lebron (even though he was clearly the best). And even then, that was the year Lebron was outplayed by D Wade in the Finals, which STILL left the haters a ton of room to criticize him as not truly being the leagues alpha when it mattered most.

Overall point: There will always be detractors despite mountains of evidence.

Vee-Rex
12-11-2015, 03:51 PM
Seems a little different in Curry's case because I feel like most (not all) of the time you have the build up of the player as being top 3 for a few years before he wins the ring, and once that rings come is when the torch is considered passed (so long as his day to day play is still the best). That's how it was for MJ, how it was for Shaq, and how it was for Lebron. A lot of people still latched on to Kobe as #1 until '10/'11 because Kobe was the MVP in '08 and in the following two seasons he was still All NBA 1st Team Defensive + Overall and was the Finals MVP both years. It took the Lakers finally falling short in the playoffs for the narrative to completely shift to Lebron (even though he was clearly the best). And even then, that was the year Lebron was outplayed by D Wade in the Finals, which STILL left the haters a ton of room to criticize him as not truly being the leagues alpha when it mattered most.

Overall point: There will always be detractors despite mountains of evidence.

To be fair, Curry has only had 1 year in which he was considered better than LeBron, and it's the year he couldn't even win finals MVP. To some, it doesn't matter that his team won the finals.

I've passed the torch mainly because of his consistent play this year, but it's understandable if people still want to wait another year.

tredigs
12-11-2015, 04:40 PM
To be fair, Curry has only had 1 year in which he was considered better than LeBron, and it's the year he couldn't even win finals MVP. To some, it doesn't matter that his team won the finals.

I've passed the torch mainly because of his consistent play this year, but it's understandable if people still want to wait another year.

Well that's why I'm saying his story is different. He's clearly the best on a daily basis over the past year+, but already has the ring. In most cases like this people want to wait to see the ring, but he got it all in the same season.


To be fair to his FMVP omission, Curry demanded a ton of attention and was by far the teams best offensive player (I mean, we know Iggy's high FG% was because Blatt simply decided to overload defensively and leave one guy open on the perimeter as the best worst-case scenario, and he capitalized on that. Curry's Finals was better than plenty of Finals MVP's winners in years past, he just didn't have enough cache' yet, hell some win it just on name/prior playoff games). There's exactly nobody who would argue Iggy > Curry, it was just a circumstantial win. In Bron's first Finals with a capable alpha option on his team, he too would have not won Finals MVP (except they lost). It's not that rare. And certainly did not change my opinion that Bron was already clearly the best day in/day out player in the game.

Regardless, I don't think this is a debate that matters to be honest. He's the reigning MVP who effectively locked up this years MVP faster than anyone I can think of. Now it's just the separation mode where some already say he's the clear best player, and others will reserve judgement until/if they win the title again (tho Lebron will have to win the Finals MVP for this side of the argument to hold water). There's not much of a middle ground.

valade16
12-11-2015, 05:42 PM
The thing is, this year Curry is so thoroughly blowing away everyone I just don't see how it can be a debate at this point. We are going to look back on this year in consideration for the best season in NBA history if he keeps it up.

If you take out Curry right now I don't think anybody else's season would crack the Top 25 greatest seasons we've ever seen, possibly Top 50 (although KD, Kawhi and Paul George's years possibly could).

If this were a race he'd have lapped the field. It really has nothing to do with how good everyone else is playing. KD, PG, Bron and Kawhi are all having MVP caliber years, but Curry is simply on another level.

Vee-Rex
12-11-2015, 06:11 PM
Well that's why I'm saying his story is different. He's clearly the best on a daily basis over the past year+, but already has the ring. In most cases like this people want to wait to see the ring, but he got it all in the same season.


To be fair to his FMVP omission, Curry demanded a ton of attention and was by far the teams best offensive player (I mean, we know Iggy's high FG% was because Blatt simply decided to overload defensively and leave one guy open on the perimeter as the best worst-case scenario, and he capitalized on that. Curry's Finals was better than plenty of Finals MVP's winners in years past, he just didn't have enough cache' yet, hell some win it just on name/prior playoff games). There's exactly nobody who would argue Iggy > Curry, it was just a circumstantial win. In Bron's first Finals with a capable alpha option on his team, he too would have not won Finals MVP (except they lost). It's not that rare. And certainly did not change my opinion that Bron was already clearly the best day in/day out player in the game.

Regardless, I don't think this is a debate that matters to be honest. He's the reigning MVP who effectively locked up this years MVP faster than anyone I can think of. Now it's just the separation mode where some already say he's the clear best player, and others will reserve judgement until/if they win the title again (tho Lebron will have to win the Finals MVP for this side of the argument to hold water). There's not much of a middle ground.

That's true. I honestly feel like the FMVP could've gone to Curry. I'm guessing people's expectations were higher so they failed to see just how big of an impact Curry actually had on the finals.


The thing is, this year Curry is so thoroughly blowing away everyone I just don't see how it can be a debate at this point. We are going to look back on this year in consideration for the best season in NBA history if he keeps it up.

Normally I give it more time to hand over the crown too, but Steph is just on another level entirely. His numbers are slowly going down, but he'd literally have to play like crap for the rest of the season to not win another mvp and we all know that's not gonna happen.

JordansBulls
12-11-2015, 07:55 PM
He was the best last year as well. Had the best stats in the season and playoffs and won title.

giantspwn
12-12-2015, 01:41 AM
The thing is, this year Curry is so thoroughly blowing away everyone I just don't see how it can be a debate at this point. We are going to look back on this year in consideration for the best season in NBA history if he keeps it up.

If you take out Curry right now I don't think anybody else's season would crack the Top 25 greatest seasons we've ever seen, possibly Top 50 (although KD, Kawhi and Paul George's years possibly could).

If this were a race he'd have lapped the field. It really has nothing to do with how good everyone else is playing. KD, PG, Bron and Kawhi are all having MVP caliber years, but Curry is simply on another level.

I agree with what your saying but lets not hand him the mvp yet. Season only being 1/3 the way over. Even if he's lapped everyone, this season's a marathon. God forbid a significant injury and Walton/Kerr's reluctance to play him as much minutes in the 2nd half of the year could see one of those other guys catch up near where he's at.

prodigy
12-12-2015, 06:26 AM
Well that's why I'm saying his story is different. He's clearly the best on a daily basis over the past year+, but already has the ring. In most cases like this people want to wait to see the ring, but he got it all in the same season.

This is also ur opinion BTW. Its not a fact. As I said before I'll take the best all around player in the game Lebron James. Who does most things better then Curry. Curry avg more points because he's a great 3 pt shooter. Lebron scores 25 + driving and battling inside.

Badluck33
12-12-2015, 08:25 AM
"If steph Curry isn't playing basketball, is LBJ still GOAT?"

Should I start this thread or does someone else want to do it?

tredigs
12-12-2015, 10:26 AM
This is also ur opinion BTW. Its not a fact. As I said before I'll take the best all around player in the game Lebron James. Who does most things better then Curry. Curry avg more points because he's a great 3 pt shooter. Lebron scores 25 + driving and battling inside.

Open your eyes my friend.