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View Full Version : Who is leading the race for ROY?



JasonJohnHorn
11-30-2015, 02:00 PM
Looks like Towns, Porzingis and Okafor are a the top of the list so far.

Who do you think is leading the charge so far? And just to make it interesting, which rookies are winding out your top five?

lamzoka
11-30-2015, 02:07 PM
1- KAT
2-KP
3-Okafor
4-Mudiay
5-Winslow

FlashBolt
11-30-2015, 02:14 PM
Towns>Porzingis>Okafor.

Towns is a much more efficient player than Porzingis now. Both are putting similar numbers but one does so more consistently and is having a bigger impact especially on the WC.

Porzingis is easily the second here. He's the most talked about rookie and has excelled past expectations. Putting in some huge numbers but needs to be a bit more consistent and also, find where his shot is more comfortable. He needs to stop fouling but that should be an easy fix as he gets more NBA in him. Love his ability to step up when it matters, too. Without him, Knicks would be losing quite some games tbh.

Okafor here. I like his game a lot this early into his career but wow, he hasn't won a single game. Hard to believe that they are 0-16 or whatever but that just leads me to believe that Okafor isn't having a huge impact on this team like Porz/Towns are. I get that his team is terrible but 0-16 doesn't look good regardless of who you are.

nycericanguy
11-30-2015, 02:28 PM
Towns but KP has narrowed the gap considerably the last couple of weeks.

nycericanguy
11-30-2015, 02:32 PM
Towns>Porzingis>Okafor.

Towns is a much more efficient player than Porzingis now. Both are putting similar numbers but one does so more consistently and is having a bigger impact especially on the WC.

Porzingis is easily the second here. He's the most talked about rookie and has excelled past expectations. Putting in some huge numbers but needs to be a bit more consistent and also, find where his shot is more comfortable. He needs to stop fouling but that should be an easy fix as he gets more NBA in him. Love his ability to step up when it matters, too. Without him, Knicks would be losing quite some games tbh.

Okafor here. I like his game a lot this early into his career but wow, he hasn't won a single game. Hard to believe that they are 0-16 or whatever but that just leads me to believe that Okafor isn't having a huge impact on this team like Porz/Towns are. I get that his team is terrible but 0-16 doesn't look good regardless of who you are.

I agree with your post except the bolded. There isn't much difference between the east and west so far this year. KP is on a less talented team and has been the Knicks 2nd best player, heck, you can make an argument for him being the Knicks best player so far... and he's been their best defender by far. So I don't think you can say Towns has had a bigger impact.

FlashBolt
11-30-2015, 02:46 PM
I agree with your post except the bolded. There isn't much difference between the east and west so far this year. KP is on a less talented team and has been the Knicks 2nd best player, heck, you can make an argument for him being the Knicks best player so far... and he's been their best defender by far. So I don't think you can say Towns has had a bigger impact.

I do believe that because you can't just look at averages here. Look at their games played and judge them individually. Towns has been consistent for his team all season long. Though, East is catching up, West is still a better conference right now. Towns has put up numbers in wins/losses. Here, I'll use his previous four losses as an example.

Vs LAC (17 points, 8 rebounds, 3 steals) 62% shooting
Vs Detroit (18 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 blocks, 3 steals) 80% shooting
Vs Orlando (21 points, 12 rebounds, 6 blocks) 65% shooting
Vs Memphis (14 points, 9 rebounds) 46% shooting

So what you see is that KAT has an impact when he wins/loses. When Kristaps team loses, he's usually having a bad shooting night. But then you look at his rebounding numbers which are higher than KAT. Well, he's playing much more minutes than KAT is in those games.

I just think KAT has a bigger impact for his team presently because he's consistent in wins/losses.

nycericanguy
11-30-2015, 02:53 PM
I do believe that because you can't just look at averages here. Look at their games played and judge them individually. Towns has been consistent for his team all season long. Though, East is catching up, West is still a better conference right now. Towns has put up numbers in wins/losses. Here, I'll use his previous four losses as an example.

Vs LAC (17 points, 8 rebounds, 3 steals) 62% shooting
Vs Detroit (18 points, 7 rebounds, 3 assists, 2 blocks, 3 steals) 80% shooting
Vs Orlando (21 points, 12 rebounds, 6 blocks) 65% shooting
Vs Memphis (14 points, 9 rebounds) 46% shooting

So what you see is that KAT has an impact when he wins/loses. When Kristaps team loses, he's usually having a bad shooting night. But then you look at his rebounding numbers which are higher than KAT. Well, he's playing much more minutes than KAT is in those games.

I just think KAT has a bigger impact for his team presently because he's consistent in wins/losses.

Towns just had a 3 game stretch where he averaged 6 points and 5 rebounds.

None of these rookies have been that consistent, it's part of being a rookie.

The east has been better so far this year. I think Towns and KP have had a similar impact, I don't think you can really say one has had a bigger impact than the other. They both came to awful teams and now they both have been key players as those teams have both been around .500 this year. Though I think MIN has a lot more talent.

KnicksorBust
11-30-2015, 02:54 PM
1- KAT
2-KP
3-Okafor
4-Mudiay
5-Winslow

Mudiay has been a roller coaster and guys like Bjelica and McConnell are worth a look at replacing him in the top 5 but otherwise this list is good.

FlashBolt
11-30-2015, 03:04 PM
Towns just had a 3 game stretch where he averaged 6 points and 5 rebounds.

None of these rookies have been that consistent, it's part of being a rookie.

The east has been better so far this year. I think Towns and KP have had a similar impact, I don't think you can really say one has had a bigger impact than the other. They both came to awful teams and now they both have been key players as those teams have both been around .500 this year. Though I think MIN has a lot more talent.

Sorry, West is still better. And that 3 game stretch where he averaged 6 points/5 rebounds was because he was very limited in those games since Wiggins was taking most of the shots and because he played very few minutes. His performance was consistent nonetheless. None of these rookies have been consistent? Dude, Towns has been consistent... he rarely has a terrible shooting game and his rebounding per36 is the same for ever game.

nycericanguy
11-30-2015, 03:09 PM
Sorry, West is still better. And that 3 game stretch where he averaged 6 points/5 rebounds was because he was very limited in those games since Wiggins was taking most of the shots and because he played very few minutes. His performance was consistent nonetheless. None of these rookies have been consistent? Dude, Towns has been consistent... he rarely has a terrible shooting game and his rebounding per36 is the same for ever game.

why because you say so?...lol. East has been better statistically...

Don't make excuses... Towns has been great, but you're reaching for arguments to favor him, even though I've already said he's been above KP so far. KP has been pretty consistent too, scored in double figures and grabbed at least 6 rebounds in 15 of 18 games.

FlashBolt
11-30-2015, 03:24 PM
why because you say so?...lol. East has been better statistically...

Don't make excuses... Towns has been great, but you're reaching for arguments to favor him, even though I've already said he's been above KP so far. KP has been pretty consistent too, scored in double figures and grabbed at least 6 rebounds in 15 of 18 games.

Lol, so what are your arguments as to why KAT has been better? I'm not reaching at all... he has been more consistent. Check their averages/game logs. That's the proof you need. KP hasn't been consistently offensively like KAT has been. Again, he'll shoot 50% one game and then drop to 25% the next.. check the game logs. East has been better? I don't care what statistics show you, KAT has played better against the better teams than KP has.. and if you can't disprove that, IDC how good East has been. To say KAT is not more consistent than KP is bull. It's the only reason why KAT is ahead of him. Can you tell me why you put KAT ahead of KP? Record of East vs West is 29-29 and it was a much slower start for the WC teams than usual.

2-ONE-5
11-30-2015, 03:45 PM
you all know that wins and impact has absolutely nothing to do with winning ROY right?

nycericanguy
11-30-2015, 03:47 PM
Lol, so what are your arguments as to why KAT has been better? I'm not reaching at all... he has been more consistent. Check their averages/game logs. That's the proof you need. KP hasn't been consistently offensively like KAT has been. Again, he'll shoot 50% one game and then drop to 25% the next.. check the game logs. East has been better? I don't care what statistics show you, KAT has played better against the better teams than KP has.. and if you can't disprove that, IDC how good East has been. To say KAT is not more consistent than KP is bull. It's the only reason why KAT is ahead of him. Can you tell me why you put KAT ahead of KP? Record of East vs West is 29-29 and it was a much slower start for the WC teams than usual.

he's scored more, rebounded more, blocked more shots and he's been more efficient.

I'm not too caught up in game to game FG % as a measure of consistency. KP shoots a lot of 3's, his game in general is much more perimeter based, so his game to game FG% will reflect that. But he's been a pretty consistent producer on both ends whether his jumper falls or not.

nycericanguy
11-30-2015, 03:50 PM
you all know that wins and impact has absolutely nothing to do with winning ROY right?

That's partly because rookies tend to be negative impact players. But this year, KP and Towns have been by far positive impact rookies.

I think usually it's the guy with the highest PPG that wins ROY... but the league in general has been more advanced stat oriented lately... I'm not so sure just winning the PPG column will be enough this year. Okafor will have to outscore KP & Towns by alot more than 2-3 points IMO if he's going to win it the way things stand.

2-ONE-5
11-30-2015, 05:16 PM
dont buy it. all 3 teams are doing pretty much what was expected, obviously the sixers were expected to have a t least a few wins by now but injuries have played a big role in that. Okafor is already 3+ pt ahead in scoring and catching in rebounds daily with being only 1 per game behind right now from both but even still I think Towns wins if he continues to have around the same line he has now.

nycericanguy
11-30-2015, 05:57 PM
dont buy it. all 3 teams are doing pretty much what was expected, obviously the sixers were expected to have a t least a few wins by now but injuries have played a big role in that. Okafor is already 3+ pt ahead in scoring and catching in rebounds daily with being only 1 per game behind right now from both but even still I think Towns wins if he continues to have around the same line he has now.

Knicks and Twolves were expected to be around .500? Not from what all the predictions and PSD said...lol. Knicks were the laughing stock of PSD and would be "lucky to win 30"...according to most. Heck TOR fans have a thread from before the season where they all predicted they'd get a top 7 pick from NY this year, most actually predicted a top 3 pick!

If the season ended today i'd be very surprised if Okafor won the ROY just because he's scoring 3ppg more...voters aren't going to completely ignore every other category or impact except PPG. I mean he's taking like 5-6 shots more than any other rookie... he damn well score more!...lol

Redrum187
11-30-2015, 06:05 PM
It's hands down KAT for me so far (11/30/2015).

KAT is playing slightly less while outproducing KP. KAT has better FG %, 3 pt%, ft%, more rebounds, same assist, more blocks, same steals, more points. He leads his team as THE MAN, KP is 2nd fiddle to Melo. The Timberwolves also have a slightly better winning percentage with superior wins over the better teams in the NBA (2x Hawks, Heat, Bulls, etc...).

Playing time will be a huge variable going forward. If KAT and KP get relatively equal playing time, I think KAT will get it. If KP's time on the floor trends upward and KAT stays lower, I wouldn't be surprised if KP wins it.

Redrum187
11-30-2015, 06:10 PM
Knicks and Twolves were expected to be around .500? Not from what all the predictions and PSD said...lol. Knicks were the laughing stock of PSD and would be "lucky to win 30"...according to most. Heck TOR fans have a thread from before the season where they all predicted they'd get a top 7 pick from NY this year, most actually predicted a top 3 pick!

If the season ended today i'd be very surprised if Okafor won the ROY just because he's scoring 3ppg more...voters aren't going to completely ignore every other category or impact except PPG. I mean he's taking like 5-6 shots more than any other rookie... he damn well score more!...lol

I don't know what the expectations were from PSD over New York prior to the season opener, but I thought the Knicks were going to be more than solid.

I have always been an admirer of Lopez and Afflalo as role players. With the pleasant surprise of KP, one would think Afflalo, KP, and Lopez around Melo would make the Knicks a playoff team. Even prior to KP's play, I thought they would be good enough to make it in.

I still think they have a decent shot at making the playoffs, although I'm slightly less confident than I was at the start of the year. Afflalo is playing now, and KP will continue to improve, so hopefully I wasn't wrong and the Knicks do make the postseason.

JasonJohnHorn
11-30-2015, 06:13 PM
dont buy it. all 3 teams are doing pretty much what was expected, obviously the sixers were expected to have a t least a few wins by now but injuries have played a big role in that. Okafor is already 3+ pt ahead in scoring and catching in rebounds daily with being only 1 per game behind right now from both but even still I think Towns wins if he continues to have around the same line he has now.

I think only the Knicks are where they were expected to be.

I don't recall anybody suggesting the T-Wolves would be in playoff contention, or that the 76ers would break the record for most consecutive losses despite adding the #2 pick to their roster.


The 76ers are WAY worse than anybody expected; the T-Wolves are much better; and the Knicks are about where they were expected to be.

nycericanguy
11-30-2015, 06:14 PM
It's hands down KAT for me so far (11/30/2015).

KAT is playing slightly less while outproducing KP. KAT has better FG %, 3 pt%, ft%, more rebounds, same assist, more blocks, same steals, more points. He leads his team as THE MAN, KP is 2nd fiddle to Melo. The Timberwolves also have a slightly better winning percentage with superior wins over the better teams in the NBA (2x Hawks, Heat, Bulls, etc...).

Playing time will be a huge variable going forward. If KAT and KP get relatively equal playing time, I think KAT will get it. If KP's time on the floor trends upward and KAT stays lower, I wouldn't be surprised if KP wins it.

I would say MIN is much more Wiggins team right now.

You can make the case that Towns has been MIN's best player though, TBH you can make the case for KP as well in NY.

Redrum187
11-30-2015, 08:55 PM
I would say MIN is much more Wiggins team right now.

You can make the case that Towns has been MIN's best player though, TBH you can make the case for KP as well in NY.

You might be right about that. Wiggins is definitely their go-to player offensively at the very least. I'm curious who Timberwolves fans think is their main player (Wiggins or KAT).

warfelg
11-30-2015, 09:16 PM
Mudiay has been a roller coaster and guys like Bjelica and McConnell are worth a look at replacing him in the top 5 but otherwise this list is good.

As in the Sixers PG?

Dude belongs no where near that list. 17 games and 1 free throw attempt. Shooting horribly. Defense worse than Harden.

FraziersKnicks
11-30-2015, 09:22 PM
1. Karl-Anthony Towns
2. Kristaps Porzingis
3. Jahlil Okafor

AllBall
11-30-2015, 09:51 PM
Karl-Anthony Towns, and it's not even close.

Redrum187
11-30-2015, 09:54 PM
Karl-Anthony Towns, and it's not even close.

I think KP is slowly closing the gap, but I do think it's without question KAT so far.

JEDean89
11-30-2015, 10:13 PM
1) KAT
2) KP
3) Jokic (Ignorant to not be talking more about this guy)
4) Okafor

Those 4 bigs have been really good. Jokic is shooting 54% from the field, and 40% from deep. He scores, passes, and plays defense, and is producing in his limited mins. he's been a 10 and 6 guy in 20 minutes his last 5 games, and has really been impressive. Oka needs a purpose and a team before we can really judge. His job shouldn't be to put up empty stats on a losing team.

2-ONE-5
12-01-2015, 10:10 AM
Knicks and Twolves were expected to be around .500? Not from what all the predictions and PSD said...lol. Knicks were the laughing stock of PSD and would be "lucky to win 30"...according to most. Heck TOR fans have a thread from before the season where they all predicted they'd get a top 7 pick from NY this year, most actually predicted a top 3 pick!

If the season ended today i'd be very surprised if Okafor won the ROY just because he's scoring 3ppg more...voters aren't going to completely ignore every other category or impact except PPG. I mean he's taking like 5-6 shots more than any other rookie... he damn well score more!...lol

i never said he would win it, that logic came from an NY poster of scoring x amount more. However if he closes the gap in rebounding/blks while shooting the best he will have his case.

2-ONE-5
12-01-2015, 10:12 AM
I think only the Knicks are where they were expected to be.

I don't recall anybody suggesting the T-Wolves would be in playoff contention, or that the 76ers would break the record for most consecutive losses despite adding the #2 pick to their roster.


The 76ers are WAY worse than anybody expected; the T-Wolves are much better; and the Knicks are about where they were expected to be.

again the Sixers struggles are due to injuries, we would have about 3-5 wins by now if the team was fully healthy all year-we still dont have a point guard for 2 more weeks. Wolves are kind of where I thought they would be for now but they will fade as the season goes on.

2-ONE-5
12-01-2015, 10:16 AM
1) KAT
2) KP
3) Jokic (Ignorant to not be talking more about this guy)
4) Okafor

Those 4 bigs have been really good. Jokic is shooting 54% from the field, and 40% from deep. He scores, passes, and plays defense, and is producing in his limited mins. he's been a 10 and 6 guy in 20 minutes his last 5 games, and has really been impressive. Oka needs a purpose and a team before we can really judge. His job shouldn't be to put up empty stats on a losing team.

lol you just made up those numbers. Jokic shoots .4 three per game at 33% and avgs 7 and 5 in 17 min. No hes not in contention for ROY you homer

MonroeFAN
12-01-2015, 01:23 PM
Oak is the clear cut choice and it's not even close in my universe.

It isn't a rookies job to win games. It's a numbers game.

nycericanguy
12-01-2015, 01:46 PM
Oak is the clear cut choice and it's not even close in my universe.

It isn't a rookies job to win games. It's a numbers game.

you must mean it's a PPG game then because that's the only number Okafor has over KP & Towns.

2-ONE-5
12-01-2015, 02:07 PM
you must mean it's a PPG game then because that's the only number Okafor has over KP & Towns.

shoots better, scores more, assists more then KP and barely behind him in blocks and rebs. Its Towns award to lose while KP and Okafor battle for 2nd with almost no competition.

nycericanguy
12-01-2015, 02:21 PM
shoots better, scores more, assists more then KP and barely behind him in blocks and rebs. Its Towns award to lose while KP and Okafor battle for 2nd with almost no competition.

You only look at things on the surface.

Okafor has a higher fg%... well of course he does, all his shots are in the paint. 46% is actually pretty awful for a guy that only shoots in the paint. If you look at TRUE SHOOTING %, Okafor is behind Towns & KP.

Barely behind in reb and blocks? Well again that's because he plays a lot more than most rookies. Look at rebounds PER 36 or TRB% which is what % of available rebounds does he get... and he's far behind KP & Towns again. Okafor gets 9rpg PER 36 minutes, Towns & KP each get 12. Okafor grabs 13% of available rebounds, Towns & KP 18%.

You should try to understand what numbers mean and apply them in context instead of just looking at PER GAME averages in such a basic manner. You wouldn't say Tyson Chandler shoots better than Steph Curry just because he has a higher basic FG% would you? Because of course a guy that only shoots in the paint is going to have a higher FG%. But when you factor 3's and FT's then you get TRUE SHOOTING % and Okafor is last among the 3 big men in that category. It takes him 16 shots to get 17 points, simply put, that is not good.

2-ONE-5
12-01-2015, 03:02 PM
on the surface is all that matters, bro. Okafor is the only one to face doubles and play with a team of misfits outside of a few guys. PER is simply a suggestion of what is possible, not what will happen.

Scoots
12-01-2015, 03:55 PM
You only look at things on the surface.

Okafor has a higher fg%... well of course he does, all his shots are in the paint. 46% is actually pretty awful for a guy that only shoots in the paint. If you look at TRUE SHOOTING %, Okafor is behind Towns & KP.

Barely behind in reb and blocks? Well again that's because he plays a lot more than most rookies. Look at rebounds PER 36 or TRB% which is what % of available rebounds does he get... and he's far behind KP & Towns again. Okafor gets 9rpg PER 36 minutes, Towns & KP each get 12. Okafor grabs 13% of available rebounds, Towns & KP 18%.

You should try to understand what numbers mean and apply them in context instead of just looking at PER GAME averages in such a basic manner. You wouldn't say Tyson Chandler shoots better than Steph Curry just because he has a higher basic FG% would you? Because of course a guy that only shoots in the paint is going to have a higher FG%. But when you factor 3's and FT's then you get TRUE SHOOTING % and Okafor is last among the 3 big men in that category. It takes him 16 shots to get 17 points, simply put, that is not good.

The real question is do the voters care ... the answer is no. The voters are mostly just going to look at per game ... but they are also going to look at the story and lately Oka hasn't been doing himself any favors. Towns and KP have the better narrative now.

MonroeFAN
12-02-2015, 03:59 AM
It is 100% a points game.

IMO it isn't even close. Despite Phili being an embarrassment to the league, He has my vote. Maybe KP? Towns got benched, not sure how you could suggest it's him.

Yashimack
12-02-2015, 05:04 AM
Anyone who says KP should win over OKafor is just crazy. Is KP a better player than OKa? Who knows. But looking at numbers OK is over KP. People fail to realize okafor has no team around him. You cant blame the record on him. You guys can put kp or towns on that 76ers team and you'll get the same results. Give okafore the knicks or Minnesota and he'll produce with ws.

Chronz
12-02-2015, 05:45 AM
on the surface is all that matters, bro. Okafor is the only one to face doubles and play with a team of misfits outside of a few guys. PER is simply a suggestion of what is possible, not what will happen.
Still ignoring efficiency but.....
What? Are you talking about PER or per minute production, either way, BOTH are actually happening. Per possession and per minute rates are just as important as the raw tallies and Im pretty sure there are very few left in the media who think other wise.

Chronz
12-02-2015, 05:46 AM
Anyone who says KP should win over OKafor is just crazy. Is KP a better player than OKa? Who knows. But looking at numbers OK is over KP. People fail to realize okafor has no team around him. You cant blame the record on him. You guys can put kp or towns on that 76ers team and you'll get the same results. Give okafore the knicks or Minnesota and he'll produce with ws.

Based on numbers, I trust the statisticians more than your empty theories.

Chronz
12-02-2015, 05:48 AM
The real question is do the voters care ... the answer is no. The voters are mostly just going to look at per game ... but they are also going to look at the story and lately Oka hasn't been doing himself any favors. Towns and KP have the better narrative now.

I agree, that is the real question. I just disagree with your answer, the voters arent as dumb as they were years ago.

More-Than-Most
12-02-2015, 05:52 AM
Still ignoring efficiency but.....
What? Are you talking about PER or per minute production, either way, BOTH are actually happening. Per possession and per minute rates are just as important as the raw tallies and Im pretty sure there are very few left in the media who think other wise.

so is the fact that OKA gets doubled like 60 percent of the time where Towns and Porz havent been doubled at all this year but of course that doesnt hurt efficiency

Chronz
12-02-2015, 05:56 AM
so is the fact that OKA gets doubled like 60 percent of the time where Towns and Porz havent been doubled at all this year but of course that doesnt hurt efficiency

Fake %'s do not exonerate inefficiency. Its like you think he can shoot 30% but so long as hes getting doubled, its A-OK.

tredigs
12-02-2015, 06:23 AM
Anyone who says KP should win over OKafor is just crazy. Is KP a better player than OKa? Who knows. But looking at numbers OK is over KP. People fail to realize okafor has no team around him. You cant blame the record on him. You guys can put kp or towns on that 76ers team and you'll get the same results. Give okafore the knicks or Minnesota and he'll produce with ws.

That would depend on what #'s you're looking at. If RPM is your thing, you'd have to cycle through 412 names before you got to Okafor, where he ranks dead last in the association.

More-Than-Most
12-02-2015, 07:46 AM
Fake %'s do not exonerate inefficiency. Its like you think he can shoot 30% but so long as hes getting doubled, its A-OK.

Not at all... But like I said its alot easier to do things when he doesnt have the double team on him... Town and KP can just do as they please because they have help around them... The most recent Game they tried to not double OKA was the wolves where they put towns on him and he got utterly destroyed on both ends of the floor and tonight against Randle who played him really really well.

Also being doubled and shooting 46 percent is alot better than the 30 percent you were throwing out there. First people were complaining about his Rebounds without realizing the dude has Noel next to him and that will Limit him... They now have Noel coming off the Bench and his Rebounds went through the roof... Then they decide to **** on his Free throw percentage saying there is no way he can sustain it but he is sitting near 70 percent. His shooting percentage will go up once he has help around him and dont have to force himself to take awkward shots because he is constantly doubled or out of position trying to help out D-league players...

Basically basketball 101

People cant have it both ways... You cant say the sixers have the worst team ever and not give their rookie who has carried the load a large amount of credit... I would love to see what he can do if he had a wiggins/Melo or a damn Point guard

tsubibo
12-02-2015, 08:12 AM
Town would be leading candidate for ROY for me. Porzingis a close second. I like Towns consistency. KP has so far defied expectations. Remember the peoples reactions when he was drafted.

MonroeFAN
12-02-2015, 08:46 AM
Fairly certain every year the top PPG scorer out of the class gets it.

Am I wrong? I'm looking at a list and no one really jumps out at me.

nycericanguy
12-02-2015, 10:23 AM
so is the fact that OKA gets doubled like 60 percent of the time where Towns and Porz havent been doubled at all this year but of course that doesnt hurt efficiency

well thats a number you just made up, regardless he still manages to get up 16 shots per game which is wayyy more than any other rookie. he also doesn't get to the FT all that much for a guy that gets doubled down low as much as you claim. that usually results in a lot of FT's.

nycericanguy
12-02-2015, 10:24 AM
Fairly certain every year the top PPG scorer out of the class gets it.

Am I wrong? I'm looking at a list and no one really jumps out at me.

Ok, but is that YOUR opinion? Do you think Okafor is the ROTY because he has a higher PPG? and that's all that matters? Or do you just think he'll win because of that?

ewing
12-02-2015, 10:31 AM
guys tell me more about how the league is sitting up nights game planning how to defend Oka in the post

Hawkeye15
12-02-2015, 02:29 PM
Mitchell is cutting Towns minutes to rest him for the long run, and Dieng is playing more. That hurts Towns case

nycericanguy
12-02-2015, 02:33 PM
Mitchell is cutting Towns minutes to rest him for the long run, and Dieng is playing more. That hurts Towns case

thats kind of odd, it's not like he was playing HUGE minutes. 27mpg seemed about right for him.

But I'd be surprised if anyone outside of Okafor ended up with over 30mpg anyway. KP is going to hit a wall soon, he's used to a 40 game season playing 20mpg and 1 or 2 games a week. Fisher has left him out there a bit too long lately IMO.

2-ONE-5
12-02-2015, 02:39 PM
they're all use to the shorter season and less travel. I said before it could come down to who bounced back from the rookie wall the fastest/best. Okafors current funk and likely suspension is going to hurt his chances, im expecting him to get like 10 games.

mngopher35
12-02-2015, 02:46 PM
Hawk what are your thoughts on that? So far I pretty much can't stand Mitchell and his rotations/in game decisions (like last night).

As said towns isn't getting quite the same time and he hasn't been quite as impactful when in the game. Should be a good race for roy between the 3 bigs.

5ass
12-02-2015, 02:51 PM
Mitchell is cutting Towns minutes to rest him for the long run, and Dieng is playing more. That hurts Towns case

I don't think its about resting him. The wolves front court was getting out played and out rebounded by Vucevic and Nicholson. Dieng was playing better than Towns. He's only 20 years old, he'll have rough nights. How many times did Okafor go 2-9 in the first half and still Brown kept him in the game? The difference is Mitchell has other options (Dieng) to try to win him games.

5ass
12-02-2015, 02:56 PM
Hawk what are your thoughts on that? So far I pretty much can't stand Mitchell and his rotations/in game decisions (like last night).

As said towns isn't getting quite the same time and he hasn't been quite as impactful when in the game. Should be a good race for roy between the 3 bigs.

IMO Mitchell made the right move last night. They were able to close a 17 point deficit with Towns on the bench. I get that you want to see Towns play, but sometimes you have to put your team in the best position to win. At least you don't have a #5 pick (Hezonja) getting DNPs.

mngopher35
12-02-2015, 03:03 PM
IMO Mitchell made the right move last night. They were able to close a 17 point deficit with Towns on the bench. I get that you want to see Towns play, but sometimes you have to put your team in the best position to win. At least you don't have a #5 pick (Hezonja) getting DNPs.

KG was on the bench for much of that run too but he got put in over Towns (this has happened before and KG has cost us). After coming in KG contributed to a 24 sec violation, missed jumper, you guys got an offensive rebound, and he didn't contest a layup by payton. I am not saying all of these things happen but my guess is we have 2 points and one extra stop if Towns is in.

I don't think KG puts us in the best position to win (and it has showed multiple times late IMO) and I also think the play calling for the final shot was pathetic. I do agree part of it is that I want to see Towns get time though. With a rebuilding team like this I think it would make sense to just play him anyway, but in this case I think he also would be better late in games than KG has been.

mngopher35
12-02-2015, 03:07 PM
Also I was disappointed to not get to see hezonja though, how has he done when he gets time?

5ass
12-02-2015, 03:29 PM
KG was on the bench for much of that run too but he got put in over Towns (this has happened before and KG has cost us). After coming in KG contributed to a 24 sec violation, missed jumper, you guys got an offensive rebound, and he didn't contest a layup by payton. I am not saying all of these things happen but my guess is we have 2 points and one extra stop if Towns is in.

I don't think KG puts us in the best position to win (and it has showed multiple times late IMO) and I also think the play calling for the final shot was pathetic. I do agree part of it is that I want to see Towns get time though. With a rebuilding team like this I think it would make sense to just play him anyway, but in this case I think he also would be better late in games than KG has been.

I agree that KG made some mistakes there in the 4th, but I wouldn't say it was his fault for Payton scoring. He was trying to stay on Nicholson who was at the 3 pt line. Payton just crossed up Rubio and layed it in. We did a good job spacing the floor, so if you're going to blame anyone, its Rubio IMO. Also that 24 second violation wasn't really all on KG. As for the final shot, well there isn't much you can do when the Magic know you need a three, plus Gordon played excellent defense on Wiggins.

5ass
12-02-2015, 03:39 PM
I don't know if it was a mistake playing KG over Towns, but its not surprising that Mitchell wanted a vet to close the game instead of his rookie who wasn't playing well. Maybe you're right, Towns would've helped the wolves win who knows. Get why you're frustrated if this happens often.

Hezonja has looked alright when he's gotten minutes. He really needs to work on his ball handling, but other than that he's been making good passes, playing physical, playing good defense, and making threes. The problem is that he gets stripped a lot of times when he tries to dribble into the paint.

mngopher35
12-02-2015, 03:41 PM
I agree that KG made some mistakes there in the 4th, but I wouldn't say it was his fault for Payton scoring. He was trying to stay on Nicholson who was at the 3 pt line. Payton just crossed up Rubio and layed it in. We did a good job spacing the floor, so if you're going to blame anyone, its Rubio IMO. Also that 24 second violation wasn't really all on KG. As for the final shot, well there isn't much you can do when the Magic know you need a three, plus Gordon played excellent defense on Wiggins.

The shot clock violation was completely his fault. He had it with 3 seconds wide open and chose to pass to a guarded player instead leaving no time (he clearly looked to the bench and took the blame even). I am not saying Towns for sure would have blocked it or anything but he would have had a chance, KG was only a step or two away by the time Payton layed it in I believe. Either way that's 3-4 plays he could have helped make a positive instead of negative or nothing. This also isn't the first time we have been in these situations and had the same problems (most obvious was taking Towns out late vs. Bulls only to have Gasol rebound and put back the tying basket over KG who had been the replacement). It just happens a lot and Mitchell seems to continuously stick with it.

The last shot was well guarded but when everyone knows what is coming that is what happens. He didn't try extra motion, double screens, mis direction or anything. We set a pick for him that didn't work so we called another TO. Out of that we had pretty much no play other than give it to him and hope for the best. It isn't the end of the world or anything but game after game of seeing poor coaching adds up.

mngopher35
12-02-2015, 03:50 PM
I don't know if it was a mistake playing KG over Towns, but its not surprising that Mitchell wanted a vet to close the game instead of his rookie who wasn't playing well. Maybe you're right, Towns would've helped the wolves win who knows. Get why you're frustrated if this happens often.

I don't know either but I have seen enough of KG late to know he is hurting many times. It just makes a lot more sense to me to let Towns get the late game experience since he likely would be an upgrade on top of that. If this were a single situation I would probably agree with you though since Towns wasn't playing very well but this has been a common theme. It has more to due with building frustration on my end probably (not that we don't win, but that it seems like he isn't putting us in the best chance to win while also sitting young guys).


Hezonja has looked alright when he's gotten minutes. He really needs to work on his ball handling, but other than that he's been making good passes, playing physical, playing good defense, and making threes. The problem is that he gets stripped a lot of times when he tries to dribble into the paint.

Wiggins had handling issues last year but seems to have improve in that category and it makes a huge difference (he's not even that good at it yet either). I was curious about him at draft time but haven't seen more than about 30 minutes of him total. Seems like he has some talent if things come together but ya I saw a few turnovers in that small time.

nycericanguy
12-02-2015, 03:54 PM
Okafor vs KP tonight should be fun.

5ass
12-02-2015, 04:03 PM
The shot clock violation was completely his fault. He had it with 3 seconds wide open and chose to pass to a guarded player instead leaving no time (he clearly looked to the bench and took the blame even). I am not saying Towns for sure would have blocked it or anything but he would have had a chance, KG was only a step or two away by the time Payton layed it in I believe. Either way that's 3-4 plays he could have helped make a positive instead of negative or nothing. This also isn't the first time we have been in these situations and had the same problems (most obvious was taking Towns out late vs. Bulls only to have Gasol rebound and put back the tying basket over KG who had been the replacement). It just happens a lot and Mitchell seems to continuously stick with it.

The last shot was well guarded but when everyone knows what is coming that is what happens. He didn't try extra motion, double screens, mis direction or anything. We set a pick for him that didn't work so we called another TO. Out of that we had pretty much no play other than give it to him and hope for the best. It isn't the end of the world or anything but game after game of seeing poor coaching adds up.
My bad I thought KG was the one who received the pass on that 24 second violation.
I still think it was mainly Rubio's fault for Payton's lay up, KG was able to swipe at the ball, but Payton was just stronger.
As for the last play, Skiles put some good defenders on the court and wanted to switch everything.

2-ONE-5
12-02-2015, 04:15 PM
Okafor vs KP tonight should be fun.

would be cool to see them guard eachother but i imagine it will be Noel vs KP which is also pretty interesting

mngopher35
12-02-2015, 04:20 PM
The shot clock violation was completely his fault. He had it with 3 seconds wide open and chose to pass to a guarded player instead leaving no time (he clearly looked to the bench and took the blame even). I am not saying Towns for sure would have blocked it or anything but he would have had a chance, KG was only a step or two away by the time Payton layed it in I believe. Either way that's 3-4 plays he could have helped make a positive instead of negative or nothing. This also isn't the first time we have been in these situations and had the same problems (most obvious was taking Towns out late vs. Bulls only to have Gasol rebound and put back the tying basket over KG who had been the replacement). It just happens a lot and Mitchell seems to continuously stick with it.

The last shot was well guarded but when everyone knows what is coming that is what happens. He didn't try extra motion, double screens, mis direction or anything. We set a pick for him that didn't work so we called another TO. Out of that we had pretty much no play other than give it to him and hope for the best. It isn't the end of the world or anything but game after game of seeing poor coaching adds up.
My bad I thought KG was the one who received the pass on that 24 second violation.
I still think it was mainly Rubio's fault for Payton's lay up, KG was able to swipe at the ball, but Payton was just stronger.
As for the last play, Skiles put some good defenders on the court and wanted to switch everything.

It was, I am just saying that towns would have given us a chance to stop it maybe (who knows if he could have Payton made a nice play). Like I said it is a bit more cumulative for me since it's happened in multiple games. Last game alone wouldn't make me question Mitchell too much if it were an outlier but it's the same stuff I've seen all year.

mngopher35
12-02-2015, 04:22 PM
I was wondering that, will it be lopez/Noel guarding the rookies? Even though they won't be on each other that still gives each of them a defensive challenge. Hopefully we get a mix of both.

Hawkeye15
12-02-2015, 04:26 PM
Hawk what are your thoughts on that? So far I pretty much can't stand Mitchell and his rotations/in game decisions (like last night).

As said towns isn't getting quite the same time and he hasn't been quite as impactful when in the game. Should be a good race for roy between the 3 bigs.

when you have a lot of young talent, you should play them as many minutes as you can spare, so I don't mind Mitchell having basically an 11 man rotation. It does 1 of 4 things:
1- Develops the young player into a contributor for a winner down the line
2- Increases his trade value
3- Shows you that you have nothing more than a role player
4- Decreases his trade value

You have to know what you have. For instance, Dieng, is probably not on our roster in a year or two, someone will give him starter minutes, and we should cash in for him.

Dieng is playing very well this year, and his PnR defense is a little better than Towns, which is all teams do to close games. I do disagree with pulling Towns for such large stretches, but he will get his time.

Hawkeye15
12-02-2015, 04:27 PM
IMO Mitchell made the right move last night. They were able to close a 17 point deficit with Towns on the bench. I get that you want to see Towns play, but sometimes you have to put your team in the best position to win. At least you don't have a #5 pick (Hezonja) getting DNPs.

We are speaking in general. Towns isn't finishing games, and is playing less and less.

5ass
12-02-2015, 04:29 PM
It was, I am just saying that towns would have given us a chance to stop it maybe (who knows if he could have Payton made a nice play). Like I said it is a bit more cumulative for me since it's happened in multiple games. Last game alone wouldn't make me question Mitchell too much if it were an outlier but it's the same stuff I've seen all year.

Yeah since its happening often I get your frustration.

nycericanguy
12-02-2015, 04:32 PM
We are speaking in general. Towns isn't finishing games, and is playing less and less.

Seems like it's a production thing though no? Why else would a coach cut a promising rookie's minutes to 20-ish?

MIN is trying to win this year so I think Mitch would just go with the guys he thinks give him the best chance.

Fisher benched KP late in the 4th of several games early in the year, it wasn't a minutes thing but rather a trying to win thing.

Hawkeye15
12-02-2015, 04:34 PM
Seems like it's a production thing though no? Why else would a coach cut a promising rookie's minutes to 20-ish?

MIN is trying to win this year so I think Mitch would just go with the guys he thinks give him the best chance.

Fisher benched KP late in the 4th of several games early in the year, it wasn't a minutes thing but rather a trying to win thing.

right. And currently, Dieng is playing a bit better than Towns. That doesn't mean that if Towns comes back around and starts playing really well he won't see the minutes increase. The dude tried to go coast to coast yesterday for no reason at all, and bricked a layup. There is a reason he was pulled. Give the ball to ****ing Rubio and run down the floor Towns haha

mngopher35
12-02-2015, 04:48 PM
when you have a lot of young talent, you should play them as many minutes as you can spare, so I don't mind Mitchell having basically an 11 man rotation. It does 1 of 4 things:
1- Develops the young player into a contributor for a winner down the line
2- Increases his trade value
3- Shows you that you have nothing more than a role player
4- Decreases his trade value

You have to know what you have. For instance, Dieng, is probably not on our roster in a year or two, someone will give him starter minutes, and we should cash in for him.

Dieng is playing very well this year, and his PnR defense is a little better than Towns, which is all teams do to close games. I do disagree with pulling Towns for such large stretches, but he will get his time.

I agree with a lot of this, I am not so mad with him playing everyone but more so the minutes and time of game some players get at the expense of younger guys. Prince/KG and Towns/Shabazz are the obvious ones. I like that we have some vets mixed in to help the younger guys generally speaking. I just don't like how much time Prince has gotten compared to other more productive wings, especially when one of them is younger and only at 20 mpg like Shabazz. I don't like that KG is getting put in late when he has been costly so far this year in those situations and we have a future star on the bench who could use that experience. We rarely come out of breaks with a good play in place to attack the defense, even when its end of game situations like last night.

I don't think we change anything this year anyways I guess but he definitely hasn't done anything to make me think he should be considered as an option moving forward.

mngopher35
12-02-2015, 04:56 PM
Seems like it's a production thing though no? Why else would a coach cut a promising rookie's minutes to 20-ish?

MIN is trying to win this year so I think Mitch would just go with the guys he thinks give him the best chance.

Fisher benched KP late in the 4th of several games early in the year, it wasn't a minutes thing but rather a trying to win thing.


right. And currently, Dieng is playing a bit better than Towns. That doesn't mean that if Towns comes back around and starts playing really well he won't see the minutes increase. The dude tried to go coast to coast yesterday for no reason at all, and bricked a layup. There is a reason he was pulled. Give the ball to ****ing Rubio and run down the floor Towns haha

Even at the beginning of the year Towns was getting pulled late in games at times when he was playing well. It seems like Mitchell has an issue with him playing late no matter what the situation (that bulls game I mentioned where he put KG in only to screw up Towns had a 17/13/4 night).

I agree about Dieng recently but why not try them together late in games instead of having KG out there? It won't work in every situation but last night I don't think the matchup of nicholson would have hurt either of them. I would much prefer to see what we have and let young players grow than watch KG out there so often late (and not playing well).

MonroeFAN
12-02-2015, 05:06 PM
Fairly certain every year the top PPG scorer out of the class gets it.

Am I wrong? I'm looking at a list and no one really jumps out at me.

Ok, but is that YOUR opinion? Do you think Okafor is the ROTY because he has a higher PPG? and that's all that matters? Or do you just think he'll win because of that?

If it were up to me, rookie with the biggest impact it's KP rather easily. I personally think Oak is the least talented and will have the worst career of the 3.

If it's who I think will win its Oak tho. I realize that is kinda whack, but the voting process is kinda whack.

ewing
12-02-2015, 05:11 PM
going with willie cauley stein

tredigs
12-02-2015, 05:12 PM
The off field stuff is going to have a major effect. As will advanced stats. The voting is done by sportswriters, who more and more are looking deeper into the numbers. Okafor rates terribly in any advanced metric you can find, on both ends. If things stay the course I'd bet against him winning.

warfelg
12-02-2015, 05:46 PM
The off field stuff is going to have a major effect. As will advanced stats. The voting is done by sportswriters, who more and more are looking deeper into the numbers. Okafor rates terribly in any advanced metric you can find, on both ends. If things stay the course I'd bet against him winning.

MCW's advanced numbers were quite terrible too...

Yashimack
12-02-2015, 05:51 PM
That would depend on what #'s you're looking at. If RPM is your thing, you'd have to cycle through 412 names before you got to Okafor, where he ranks dead last in the association.

Im talking about points per game. When Okafor gets some talent around him to help ease the load you guys a see okafor is a beast. The Lakers will regret skipping over him.

Yashimack
12-02-2015, 05:53 PM
I have a question if the knicks had the #3 pick who do you guys think they would of drafted KP still or Okafor?

5ass
12-02-2015, 06:00 PM
I have a question if the knicks had the #3 pick who do you guys think they would of drafted KP still or Okafor?

Who knows. It would've been the right decision though IMO.

Hawkeye15
12-02-2015, 06:12 PM
MCW's advanced numbers were quite terrible too...

he had zip competition. Terrible rookie class

nycericanguy
12-02-2015, 06:24 PM
I have a question if the knicks had the #3 pick who do you guys think they would of drafted KP still or Okafor?

There was a report the other day saying Phil's top adviser told him that even with the #1 pick they should go with KP...that he was a generational talent, but that Phil would not have been able to pass on Okafor if he fell to #4.

I think they wouldve taken Okafor.

nycericanguy
12-02-2015, 06:25 PM
MCW's advanced numbers were quite terrible too...

that draft class sucked though... now you have 3 strong candidates and Russ has been playing better.

I think Okafor would have to blow away the other guys in scoring to win all things considered. As it stands I don't think sportswriters would give it to him just because he scores 2-3 more points on 5-6 more shot attempts. They will look a little deeper than that.

Hawkeye15
12-02-2015, 06:28 PM
The off field stuff is going to have a major effect. As will advanced stats. The voting is done by sportswriters, who more and more are looking deeper into the numbers. Okafor rates terribly in any advanced metric you can find, on both ends. If things stay the course I'd bet against him winning.

Until I see it, I won't believe that they really consider anyone for ROY outside the guy who plays a lot and scores the most PPG. It's like they don't even try with the ROY voting.

tredigs
12-02-2015, 06:35 PM
Until I see it, I won't believe that they really consider anyone for ROY outside the guy who plays a lot and scores the most PPG. It's like they don't even try with the ROY voting.

Here's the thing though, the Sixers are legendarily bad, Okafor's been in a ton of trouble, and I think it's just a pretty widely held understanding that KP and Townes have both been better. Okafor playing more minutes and getting the uptick on a couple counting stats helps his case, but there's just a lot going against him right now.

Townes was the #1 pick plus has outplayed expectations, and KP has been a mini revelation over in NY. He's super inconsistent, but his #'s are probably going to continue to rise as the season progresses, and whether we like it or not he's probably going to be a starter in the All Star Game (NY/Latvia votes). If they had the vote today, no chance Okafor wins, and I personally don't think that's going to change.

tredigs
12-02-2015, 06:49 PM
Sixers just now suspended Okafor for a couple games. Trying to do a little preemptive damage control it seems.

Hawkeye15
12-02-2015, 06:56 PM
Here's the thing though, the Sixers are legendarily bad, Okafor's been in a ton of trouble, and I think it's just a pretty widely held understanding that KP and Townes have both been better. Okafor playing more minutes and getting the uptick on a couple counting stats helps his case, but there's just a lot going against him right now.

Townes was the #1 pick plus has outplayed expectations, and KP has been a mini revelation over in NY. He's super inconsistent, but his #'s are probably going to continue to rise as the season progresses, and whether we like it or not he's probably going to be a starter in the All Star Game (NY/Latvia votes). If they had the vote today, no chance Okafor wins, and I personally don't think that's going to change.

I worry about the reduction in Towns minutes honestly.

chipurmunki
12-02-2015, 09:06 PM
it's not okafor. the idiot can't stay out of trouble. it has to be porzingis at this point.

More-Than-Most
12-02-2015, 09:39 PM
also let me add... Towns is by far and away the ROY and its not close.

nycericanguy
12-02-2015, 09:41 PM
also let me add... Towns is by far and away the ROY and its not close.

Towns & KP's #'s and team situations could not be anymore close actually.

mngopher35
12-03-2015, 12:52 AM
Towns hasn't been playing as well lately and is losing minutes. He might still be in the lead but it isn't by much if so.

MonroeFAN
12-03-2015, 05:09 AM
@tredigs,

I would think Towns is last now right? Kid has barely been playing.

tredigs
12-03-2015, 05:36 AM
^He's still playing 20-25 a night, but for some reason Mitchell is sitting him 4th quarters the past week+... I don't know what that's about.

I'm sure he'd still get more votes than Okafor though (if we're talking about a 1st half vote or something). Between his advanced stats and off-field troubles both being in the dumpster, he's got himself an uphill battle this year. But KAT will need the playing time to tick back up. I bet KP wins it though. He's got the talent, will get the playing time, and he'll get the press. Especially if he's an All Star starter.

FraziersKnicks
12-03-2015, 06:03 AM
As Towns minutes are going down and Okafor is doing whatever he can to make himself look like an idiot off the court, KP's case is getting stronger and stronger.

KP: 28.1 MPG, 13.8 PPG, 9.3 RPG, 0.9 APG, 0.7 SPG, 2.0 BPG, 1.8 TOPG, 52.5 TS%, 19.8 PER, .148 WS/48
KAT: 28.0 MPG, 14.4 PPG, 9.4 RPG, 0.9 APG, 0.8 SPG, 2.2 BPG, 2.1 TOPG, 57.6 TS%, 21.4 PER, .160 WS/48

So scoring, rebounds, assists, steals, blocks and turnovers are all pretty much the same. KAT has been more of an efficient scorer which also gives him the slightly better advanced numbers.

Knicks are 9-10 and Minny are 8-10, so both guys are helping their teams overachieve. I think Minny are more surprising than the Knicks so that's another nod for Towns.

Overall, Towns is still in the lead because he's more efficient and KP doesn't hold any statistical advantages to overlook that, but KP is right there behind him.

I think it's fair to say Okafor trails both by quite a margin now.

2-ONE-5
12-03-2015, 09:54 AM
in what world are the Knicks overachieving? Most expected them to be a few games under .500 or hit .500. thats not a knock on KP either to take away his impact but you guys added enoguh players to fight for the 7-8 seed so being 9-10 is shocking anyone especially in the east

2-ONE-5
12-03-2015, 09:55 AM
regardless of Oaks situation he certainly isnt trailing by quite a margin.

FraziersKnicks
12-03-2015, 11:21 AM
in what world are the Knicks overachieving? Most expected them to be a few games under .500 or hit .500. thats not a knock on KP either to take away his impact but you guys added enoguh players to fight for the 7-8 seed so being 9-10 is shocking anyone especially in the east

Most people thought the Knicks would be lucky to win 30 games this season. They're definitely performing above expectation.


regardless of Oaks situation he certainly isnt trailing by quite a margin.

Well make an argument for the guy that doesn't focus around his 3 points a game extra. He currently grades out as one of the worst starting centers in the league according to advanced numbers, who's scoring inefficiently on a high volume of possessions.

If the votes take into account advanced numbers, KP and Towns have a sizeable advantage over him.

nycericanguy
12-03-2015, 11:32 AM
in what world are the Knicks overachieving? Most expected them to be a few games under .500 or hit .500. thats not a knock on KP either to take away his impact but you guys added enoguh players to fight for the 7-8 seed so being 9-10 is shocking anyone especially in the east

I expected around a .500 team... but most people didn't... all you have to do is go back on these forums to before the season started or googled 2015 nba season predictions...

http://www.docsports.com/current/nba-season-win-totals-predictions.html - NY 29.5 wins

http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/13772067/nba-westgate-las-vegas-superbook-releases-2015-16-season-win-totals - NY 31.5 wins

http://www.sportsrepublicng.com/nba-season-preview-espns-power-rankings-for-2015-16/ - knicks predicted 2nd worst team in east behind only PHIlly.

http://www.blazersedge.com/2015/9/22/9367055/new-york-knicks-2015-16-nba-season-preview-carmelo-anthony-afflalo-porzingis - NY - 29 wins

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/bdl-s-2015-16-nba-season-previews--new-york-knicks-194048047.html NY 30 wins


show me any publication that predicted NY would win 40+ games?

mrblisterdundee
12-03-2015, 12:07 PM
1- KAT
2-KP
3-Okafor
4-Mudiay
5-Winslow

This, although Porzingis is neck-and-neck with Towns. What a good story out of New York.

2-ONE-5
12-03-2015, 12:12 PM
Most people thought the Knicks would be lucky to win 30 games this season. They're definitely performing above expectation.

i dont know how you define most. my impression was 35-40 wins from most around here and in the media which always seemed accruate given the additions


Well make an argument for the guy that doesn't focus around his 3 points a game extra. He currently grades out as one of the worst starting centers in the league according to advanced numbers, who's scoring inefficiently on a high volume of possessions.

If the votes take into account advanced numbers, KP and Towns have a sizeable advantage over him.

i never made the arument of pts but you cant discredit it or pretend like he doesnt see the most attention and has the least help and no point guard. I also never said he would win it just that he is in the race with a chance (assuming he has his head back on straight) which he is All the advance numbers suggest the team is worse when he is on the floor but first game without him what happened after 6 straight games down to the wire?

2-ONE-5
12-03-2015, 12:16 PM
I expected around a .500 team... but most people didn't... all you have to do is go back on these forums to before the season started or googled 2015 nba season predictions...

http://www.docsports.com/current/nba-season-win-totals-predictions.html - NY 29.5 wins

http://espn.go.com/chalk/story/_/id/13772067/nba-westgate-las-vegas-superbook-releases-2015-16-season-win-totals - NY 31.5 wins

http://www.sportsrepublicng.com/nba-season-preview-espns-power-rankings-for-2015-16/ - knicks predicted 2nd worst team in east behind only PHIlly.

http://www.blazersedge.com/2015/9/22/9367055/new-york-knicks-2015-16-nba-season-preview-carmelo-anthony-afflalo-porzingis - NY - 29 wins

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/bdl-s-2015-16-nba-season-previews--new-york-knicks-194048047.html NY 30 wins


show me any publication that predicted NY would win 40+ games?

i never said any predicted 40+ wins. the season isnt over either, werent you guys just on a 4-5 games losing steak?

nycericanguy
12-03-2015, 12:19 PM
i never said any predicted 40+ wins. the season isnt over either, werent you guys just on a 4-5 games losing steak?

you JUST said "in what world are the Knicks overachieving? Most expected them to be a few games under .500 or hit .500."....lol... so which is it?

2-ONE-5
12-03-2015, 12:55 PM
um floor and ceiling. im not sure there was an NY fan not predicting 40+ wins so there is your balance dude. so if they only win 32-35 games did they overachieve?

nycericanguy
12-03-2015, 02:57 PM
um floor and ceiling. im not sure there was an NY fan not predicting 40+ wins so there is your balance dude. so if they only win 32-35 games did they overachieve?

i have no idea what you're even talking about anymore. you go back on everything u say. you said NY was not overachieving because they were expected to be around a .500 team anyway.

then I show you everyone predicting them winning 29 games, and now you say no one ever said they'd win 40?...lol... so then if everyone thought they'd win 29 and they are on pace to win 40ish... then they are OVERACHIEVING!...

AI
12-03-2015, 03:02 PM
KP's minutes are steadily increasing and he's adjusting to the NBA game rather easily, which surprises me. I think he'll end up winning the ROY but could easily see Towns winning it as well. Okafor is a non-factor in this as far as I'm concerned. Why isn't Towns getting minutes in the 4th quarter anymore? Seems odd.

2-ONE-5
12-03-2015, 03:22 PM
i have no idea what you're even talking about anymore. you go back on everything u say. you said NY was not overachieving because they were expected to be around a .500 team anyway.

then I show you everyone predicting them winning 29 games, and now you say no one ever said they'd win 40?...lol... so then if everyone thought they'd win 29 and they are on pace to win 40ish... then they are OVERACHIEVING!...

you nitpicked a few sites that included like maybe 2 credible sites. the knicks are a 35 win team who could win a few more and at the moment they arent overachieving with an easy SOS

nycericanguy
12-03-2015, 03:30 PM
you nitpicked a few sites that included like maybe 2 credible sites. the knicks are a 35 win team who could win a few more and at the moment they arent overachieving with an easy SOS

actually i just googled it and picked the ones that had win totals... not nitpicked at all.

show me a site that predicted them anywhere near .500 then? I couldn't find one.

bottom line is the majority of "experts" and PSD had the knick lucky to win 30, so yes being around .500 would be overachieving, you just hate the Knicks and don't want to give KP credit for having as big an impact as he's had. he's having the biggest impact of any rookie this year and in a long time.

and how have the knicks had an easy schedule?

nycericanguy
12-03-2015, 04:08 PM
KP just won rookie of the month... so I guess voters are looking at more than just volume PPG.

2-ONE-5
12-03-2015, 05:04 PM
actually i just googled it and picked the ones that had win totals... not nitpicked at all.

show me a site that predicted them anywhere near .500 then? I couldn't find one.

bottom line is the majority of "experts" and PSD had the knick lucky to win 30, so yes being around .500 would be overachieving, you just hate the Knicks and don't want to give KP credit for having as big an impact as he's had. he's having the biggest impact of any rookie this year and in a long time.

and how have the knicks had an easy schedule?

i do hate the Knicks (the whole div too) but havent discredited Porz once in any of these debates, not once.

nycericanguy
12-05-2015, 02:04 PM
I think KP has overtaken Towns right now.

This kid is playing at a legit all star level right now.

And I remember so many people arguing with me saying he wouldn't even CONTRIBUTE for "3-4 years"...lol.

zn23
12-05-2015, 02:11 PM
KP has slightly moved past Towns as this point.

The difference is they way they're trending. Towns appears to have hit a rookie wall and his numbers have been decreasing since his hot start, meanwhile Porzingis has been putting up great numbers his last 10 games.

TheNumber37
12-05-2015, 02:33 PM
Porzingis just got comfortable like 5 games ago.

warfelg
12-05-2015, 02:37 PM
Still got about 60 games to go. Plenty of time for walls, guys to figure stuff out, and (god forbid) injuries.

nycericanguy
12-05-2015, 02:41 PM
Still got about 60 games to go. Plenty of time for walls, guys to figure stuff out, and (god forbid) injuries.

well that's pretty obvious... we are talking about who's leading NOW.

Gander13SM
12-05-2015, 05:52 PM
Still plenty of time to go but right now I'm going to side with Porzingis.

FraziersKnicks
12-08-2015, 06:49 AM
Porzingis in his last 9 games:

17.9 PPG, 9.7 RPG, 3.1 BPG on .526/.480/.900

No doubt that it's a two horse race between Towns and Porzingis right now and it's looking the closest it has all year.