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View Full Version : James Harden's Style of Play, Personality Reportedly Frustrating Rockets Players



spreadeagle
11-18-2015, 08:18 PM
According to Jeff Zillgitt and Sam Amick of USA Today, Rockets players have grown unhappy with guard James Harden's on-court play and "aloofness."

Harden, 26, is averaging his typical 27.3 points, 6.0 rebounds and 5.8 assists per game but has struggled mightily from the field. He's hitting 37.2 percent of his shots overall and a disconcerting 26.2 percent from three-point range on more than nine attempts per game.

Also an issue is Harden's defense, which was vastly improved during the Rockets' Western Conference Finals run a year ago but has regressed hard this season. Opponents are scoring 6.7 points more per 100 possessions with Harden on the floor, per Basketball-Reference. NBA.com's advanced stats show opposing players are making shots at a 3.7 percent higher clip when defended by Harden.

"He had such a bad reputation in 2014, and he worked very hard to correct that. Bad news: His problems are back," Matt Moore at CBS Sports wrote.

The Rockets currently sit 29th in defensive efficiency, ahead of only the injury-riddled New Orleans Pelicans, per NBA.com.

xbrackattackx
11-18-2015, 08:24 PM
Reminds me of another guy. Had all the talent, was a ball stopper and could score and was a all star. Sadly he fell off once he joined the Knicks. I have always said it would be hard to play with Harden. And that he would be a perfect 6 man. Like a Jamal Crawford on steroids.

More-Than-Most
11-18-2015, 09:09 PM
HE IS A LESSER CARMELO ANTHONY... You cant play at that position in the West and be as bad on defense as he is and expect everything to be alright because as soon as he struggles offensively he has Negative value and hurts the team a ton... Nobody is offensively unstoppable for the duration of a season so when you play no defense you get exposed. Steve Nash was a better Defender than Harden... Hardens defense did not improve like people were saying.. It improved but it had to because of how historically bad he was so even a little effort made him seem like a much better defender than he actually is... On top of this he gives no effort on D... He is a player I would never want on my team nomatter how much he can help offensively because of the price tag that comes along with him and the chances of winning a championship with said player who plays no defense.

But by all means lets keep putting him on top the MVP boards because he can score 28 PPG :rolleyes:

PraiseJesus
11-18-2015, 09:10 PM
Kardashin strikes again

More-Than-Most
11-18-2015, 09:26 PM
Kardashin strikes again

Epidemic?

kobe4thewinbang
11-18-2015, 09:44 PM
Pretty bad when the role players dislike the star. They still got Dwight, but I wonder if Dwight is also wishing Harden was on point and at least trying defensively. Harden might be traded to a team that doesn't need defense to win, eastern conference or something.

Scoots
11-18-2015, 10:26 PM
It was amazing how bad he was on D before last year and it was amazing how much his D improved with some effort (still not good, but not a negative) and it's amazing how bad it is this year.

One thing is for sure ... he's not going to get ignore.

Cal827
11-18-2015, 10:30 PM
Reminds me of another guy. Had all the talent, was a ball stopper and could score and was a all star. Sadly he fell off once he joined the Knicks. I have always said it would be hard to play with Harden. And that he would be a perfect 6 man. Like a Jamal Crawford on steroids.

Jeez, you guys need to stop complaining about T-Mac joining the Knicks.

More-Than-Most
11-18-2015, 10:50 PM
It was amazing how bad he was on D before last year and it was amazing how much his D improved with some effort (still not good, but not a negative) and it's amazing how bad it is this year.

One thing is for sure ... he's not going to get ignore.

It was still a Negative. A big Negative... he did get better but honestly he couldn't be any worse so there was no where to go but up. On defense the Rockets could put a trash can out there and it would play better defense than harden just by taking up space.

Redrum187
11-18-2015, 11:30 PM
Wes Matthews for James Harden base trade...

I know Rocket fans will piss and moan about this trade, but if they get another piece in the trade, it will make them a more complete basketball team.

PG: Ty Lawson (can control the ball now)
SG: Wes Matthews (3D)
SF: Trevor Ariza (3D)
PF: Dmo/Jones
C: Howard

Hawkeye15
11-18-2015, 11:46 PM
Lived in Houston for 14 years. I hate Harden. I don't like a single thing about his game outside the advanced numbers. He tampons his way into free throw attempts, and while I understand his offensive efficiency has been elite, how could anyone like his game? Prior to last seasons few stretches of him working hard on D, the dude was literally the worst defender I have ever seen for a so called "star" player.

He cares about himself. Bout it. I literally will not watch a Rocket game unless they are playing my team. They have the 2 biggest ******* of the "elite" players in Harden and Dwight.

Dade County
11-19-2015, 12:03 AM
Harden isn't going anywhere, houston hopes to reunite KD & Harden.

Howard will probably me moved this season if things dont getter better sooner then later (I think Howard is a free agent when this season ends).

-Kobe24-TJ19-
11-19-2015, 01:01 AM
STARTERS MIN FGM-A 3PM-A FTM-A OREB DREB REB AST STL BLK TO PF +/- PTS
James Harden, SG 47 11-29 4-15 19-20 1 7 8 11 5 1 5 2 +10 45

Scoots
11-19-2015, 01:41 AM
Oh yeah, it's ALL fixed now :confused:

slaker619
11-19-2015, 02:16 AM
Him & Howard could get traded if owner really trying to clean house

LakersIn5
11-19-2015, 02:38 AM
Harden wont get traded. Rockets just made the wcf. I doubt they would make farther than the wcf if they trade harden.

numba1CHANGsta
11-19-2015, 02:53 AM
Guess it's safe to say that we've seen Harden's peak, which was last year's MVP season. Now he'll just be a ball hog shooter with no leadership. Fame has got into his head a lot, if he had stayed in OKC I can see him mold into a better leader than what he is today.

Scoots
11-19-2015, 02:55 AM
Guess it's safe to say that we've seen Harden's peak, which was last year's MVP season. Now he'll just be a ball hog shooter with no leadership. Fame has got into his head a lot, if he had stayed in OKC I can see him mold into a better leader than what he is today.

... almost ... :)

Saddletramp
11-19-2015, 02:59 AM
... almost ... :)

Players voted him the MVP, and they kind of know what it takes......

Scoots
11-19-2015, 03:05 AM
Players voted him the MVP, and they kind of know what it takes......

Doesn't count the same, and I guarantee Harden agrees with me :)

I bet a bunch of those players are reconsidering their votes.

Bostonjorge
11-19-2015, 03:11 AM
Trade Harden for Paul George and boom everyone is happy.

IBleedPurple
11-19-2015, 03:14 AM
Players voted him the MVP, and they kind of know what it takes......

Doesn't count the same, and I guarantee Harden agrees with me :)

I bet a bunch of those players are reconsidering their votes.So players know less than writers? Don't think so.

Saddletramp
11-19-2015, 04:17 AM
Doesn't count the same, and I guarantee Harden agrees with me :)

I bet a bunch of those players are reconsidering their votes.

Writers always have an agenda, while players probably don't care that much. Curry was MVP, no doubt, but Harden did win the respect of his peers. As for this year? It's a different year.

xbrackattackx
11-19-2015, 08:14 AM
Jeez, you guys need to stop complaining about T-Mac joining the Knicks.

I was talking about Marbury! ;)

SteBO
11-19-2015, 09:10 AM
Lived in Houston for 14 years. I hate Harden. I don't like a single thing about his game outside the advanced numbers. He tampons his way into free throw attempts, and while I understand his offensive efficiency has been elite, how could anyone like his game? Prior to last seasons few stretches of him working hard on D, the dude was literally the worst defender I have ever seen for a so called "star" player.

He cares about himself. Bout it. I literally will not watch a Rocket game unless they are playing my team. They have the 2 biggest ******* of the "elite" players in Harden and Dwight.
Wow...it's like you digged into my psyche and stole my take. This is word for word, outside of living in Houston, my entire take on the Houston Rockets. I still think they'll be a playoff team, but they certainly aren't doing anything of relevance, though they were close last season. Firing McHale was just a pointless/idiotic move.....I'm waiting for the day an underachieving team decides to trade a player first before defaulting to coach termination.

nycericanguy
11-19-2015, 10:17 AM
Harden has always been the least enjoyable star to watch.

It's basically a free throw festival with him.

I don't like watching guys who's games revolve around trying to bait refs into giving them FT's... same reason I find Derozan so annoying to watch.

IndyRealist
11-19-2015, 11:13 AM
Trade Harden for Paul George and boom everyone is happy.

Who's this "everyone" you speak of? Certainly not people in Indiana.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-19-2015, 11:30 AM
Pretty bad when the role players dislike the star. They still got Dwight, but I wonder if Dwight is also wishing Harden was on point and at least trying defensively. Harden might be traded to a team that doesn't need defense to win, eastern conference or something.

I wouldn't be shocked if Dwight or Harden or both get traded eventually in a season or two if nothing improves. McHale already been fired. That usually sparks a team up when a guy is fired. But only lasts so long. Didn't the Hawks want Dwight?

Scoots
11-19-2015, 11:36 AM
So players know less than writers? Don't think so.

I think had the players vote been done without the knowledge of the MVP chase the result may have been different. The players were just saying to Harden that he was great too (which he was).

Cal827
11-19-2015, 12:18 PM
I was talking about Marbury! ;)

:laugh2: Well done

colinskik
11-19-2015, 12:22 PM
Harden has always been the least enjoyable star to watch.

It's basically a free throw festival with him.

I don't like watching guys who's games revolve around trying to bait refs into giving them FT's... same reason I find Derozan so annoying to watch.

Couldn't agree more about both these players. Not enjoyable to watch whatsoever and really not a way of playing the game that should be applauded.

Vee-Rex
11-19-2015, 12:47 PM
Not sure Rox fans can really defend Harden at this point.

Hopefully get turns it around soon. Still, when his primary way of scoring is at the free throw line it really rubs people the wrong way. When a guy goes 2/30 with 60 points on 56/57 free throws, it's pretty disgusting lol. Hopefully Rox fans can understand the criticism, no matter how much of the fouls are actually 'legit'.

Stinkyoutsider
11-19-2015, 01:39 PM
I think Harden's problem is that he's pressing too much. He took the MVP slight last year and is pressing even harder to become the MVP this year. It's really hurting his performances imo. He's got tunnel vision right now for the offensive side of the ball but he should realize it's not about winning an MVP but winning a championship. Harden will get the validation he wants if he works towards winning a title and leave the MVP talk to the fans and media...

As far as the Harden and Howard duo, neither one of them currently have the mentality of champions imo. I still can't believe that Howard made that statement about being a champ after Houston lost their playoff series. He's not going to win a title if he settles for being a "champ" after losing a playoff series and Harden is too worried about proving people that he was slighted for the MVP last year.

tredigs
11-19-2015, 02:10 PM
667400276605816833

yikes.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-19-2015, 02:40 PM
Maybe it's time Harden shaves that beard off. The beard isn't feared no longer.

phantasyyy
11-19-2015, 04:51 PM
Maybe a Rox fan can chime in but, how come Dwights shot attempts have dwindled to single digits..?

Isn't he still a threat to score from down there? -are they doubling him so he has to pass out of the double team?
I haven't watched any rox games this year but I've noticed that he doesn't even get any fga's the past 3 games.

6, 4, and 5 attempts, for 12, 5, and 7 points. That's unacceptable for the so called 2nd star? I mean he's a -32 for the season. what happened to him?

Saddletramp
11-19-2015, 05:40 PM
Maybe a Rox fan can chime in but, how come Dwights shot attempts have dwindled to single digits..?

Isn't he still a threat to score from down there? -are they doubling him so he has to pass out of the double team?
I haven't watched any rox games this year but I've noticed that he doesn't even get any fga's the past 3 games.

6, 4, and 5 attempts, for 12, 5, and 7 points. That's unacceptable for the so called 2nd star? I mean he's a -32 for the season. what happened to him?

Well, he's not 100% and guys have just been jacking up 3's (and mostly missing). Another thing is, the paint is always clogged so he doesn't have a lot of room. There were a few lobs last night where he had two or three guys covering him and they just throw him the ball. The paint's clogged because no one is hitting their threes. No practice yet so last night was still just the same ol' schemes and winging it ball.

Another crappy thing is he gets fouled a lot and it's not being called yet he gets at least two bad calls against him every game it seems. Jae Crowder grabbed his arm the other night with both hands and fell down. Dwight got called for the foul. Last night there was a screen in the corner where he wasn't moving, yet he gets called for a hard screen (yet other teams get away with actual illegal screens multiple times a quarter). He was also pushed on a alley oop attempt right in front of an official and it wasn't called. And in no way am I blaming refs for any losses but it's been pretty bad to start the season.

archdevil84
11-19-2015, 05:55 PM
Maybe it's time Harden shaves that beard off. The beard isn't feared no longer.

i dont think it was ever feared

brandt
11-19-2015, 09:31 PM
Maybe a Rox fan can chime in but, how come Dwights shot attempts have dwindled to single digits..?

Isn't he still a threat to score from down there? -are they doubling him so he has to pass out of the double team?
I haven't watched any rox games this year but I've noticed that he doesn't even get any fga's the past 3 games.

6, 4, and 5 attempts, for 12, 5, and 7 points. That's unacceptable for the so called 2nd star? I mean he's a -32 for the season. what happened to him?

Ty Lawson

brandt
11-19-2015, 09:37 PM
I have been a Rockets fan my whole life and can't stand Harden OR Howard. Sure, I'll root for them though if they are winning, but what fan wouldn't? I'm glad that his teammates are saying something though because I'm thinking one of two things will happen. He will try to improve his style on offense and defense or he will demand a trade. I wouldn't mind seeing him and Howard traded honestly.

lol, please
11-19-2015, 11:12 PM
Wow. I want to know mightybosstones thoughts on this.

Denverbronco007
11-20-2015, 12:36 AM
Lot of haters on here
The Rockets will eventually start shooting the ball better, and actually running plays..
Defense, and shooting % is hurting this team and the reason why they're losing right now... But, you people are crazy if you think the Rockets won't eventually figure things out. They have wayyyyyy to much talent on the roster, and when DMO comes back another post threat..
Stop Hating..
I will miss Mchale though

Denverbronco007
11-20-2015, 12:37 AM
Love the Rockets and Broncos :)

G_S_W
11-20-2015, 02:59 AM
Lot of haters on here
The Rockets will eventually start shooting the ball better, and actually running plays..
Defense, and shooting % is hurting this team and the reason why they're losing right now... But, you people are crazy if you think the Rockets won't eventually figure things out. They have wayyyyyy to much talent on the roster, and when DMO comes back another post threat..
Stop Hating..
I will miss Mchale though

The rockets don't have any offensive plays. There is only HARDEN ISO.

lol, please
11-20-2015, 04:22 PM
I mean, I really, really don't know what I am going to do with myself if bosstone doesn't show up and share some honest insight here.

tredigs
11-20-2015, 05:26 PM
I mean, I really, really don't know what I am going to do with myself if bosstone doesn't show up and share some honest insight here.

He's a fair weather fan who goes bezerk/leaves when the going gets rough, and I think has admitted as much. I don't expect to see him around much anymore.

We're seeing the true Harden surface, and it isn't pretty. At least he fooled enough dumb NBA players (the few who voted at least) to edge out Curry in CP3's award show and his fans can hang their hat on that illustrious mantle ; )

gatkins11
11-20-2015, 09:16 PM
Trade Harden for Paul George and boom everyone is happy.

Harden and Monta would be one of the worst defensive tandems ever.

FlashBolt
11-21-2015, 01:03 PM
I lost respect for Harden. He's too aloof in the way he portrays himself. Shows zero passion for the game and simply looks like he quits when he has a terrible game. I said a few days ago, how does this guy shoot 14 FT's per game? Either you get intentionally fouled or you are a great flopper. There is simply no way someone averages 14 FT's for ten straight games. 10 of his PPG total comes from FT's. Have we seen such a bad shooting efficiency but amount of points coming from FT's than this? He needs to fix up his three point shooting and start playing like a top five player like he was last season. Rockets go as far as Harden takes them. Dwight is a total clown. Sorry, can't believe this Dwight dwindled into a complete turd. He would have been their 1st option if this were his Orlando days. Ty Lawson was a terrible fit. In today's NBA, anyone who can handle the ball doesn't need another to do so. It's why low USG%/great defenders are getting paid big bucks. = why Beverley is such a valuable piece to their system. No idea what this team will be doing forward but it's pretty evident Dwight was a waste of money and they need players who have leadership skills. Harden has zero leadership skills.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-21-2015, 01:49 PM
Also showing that Howard is regressing his stock will drop. Only desperate teams looking for a name will trade for him. Mavs and Hawks wanted him before but not sure they wanna part with anything better for him. He burned his bridges with Lakers. Not sure Hawks part with Horford or Millsap. Mavs don't have much for big contracts to make it close.

Doubt they part with Matthews and/or Parsons. Not sure what other teams could use a center. Pacers? They have a bunch of bench guys making $4M to $5M each. Stuckey making $7M. Probably be 4 for 1 trade though. Blazers? But they be better off tanking. Celtics? But they probably don't wanna part with any picks or young assets for a regressing Howard. David Lee and some other asset? David Lee is like $15.4M and expiring contract. Howard is like $22M.

Hornets could get desperate. Maybe go twin towers with Howard and big Al? They have plenty of contracts to part with and still keep some starters to try and win. But just remember they just drafted Frank. So not sure they wanna bury him. Also doubt they trade him since they denied Celtics package on draft night trade idea. Pelicans? I believe Davis wants to play PF. So they could use a center and go twin towers. Not sure if they part with Anderson and some other piece. But they got so many injuries hard to get a trade going. Never mind I forgot Pelicans have Asik. Not sure if Bulls would want him.

Does Gasol play PF or center for the Bulls? Seems like Noah been rumored to be shopped around. Also Gibson seemed to always be rumored at trade deadline every year. Not sure if they just wanna trade for a name? Also could see Bulls trying to get another name paired up with Rose and Butler and Gasol. But Bulls have Mirotic as well. So not sure Bulls do it or not. Also Howard has a player option so he could bolt next summer from the new team trading for him. So some kinda extension would have to be in place if a team parts with a serious asset.

JEDean89
11-21-2015, 03:21 PM
Calling ******** on this one. Players voted Harden the MVP so how exactly do they hate his playing style? My guess is that there are some grumblings about his defensive effort and that the media has snowballed it into this. They added a huge new piece with Lawson, and with w/out Beverly, their defense lacks. Bever/Harden/Ariza/Jones/Howard should be their starters with Lawson, Thornton, Capela, Monteijunas as the bench. They need to figure out which lineups work together, so that James can score his 30 a night, and everyone will be happy.

Saddletramp
11-21-2015, 04:24 PM
1) Pretty sure Howard doesn't get traded. And if he does, the Rockets won't get equal value.

2) As of right now, pretty sure Howard opts in next year.

3) You guys are right, Harden needs to step it up on the floor and as a leader. Morey put a great team together (on paper) but the way they're playing, they won't make the playoffs. That's on a number of smaller things (injuries, low 3%, lack of play calling) but it's more on Howard and especially Harden.

Saddletramp
11-21-2015, 04:39 PM
Calling ******** on this one. Players voted Harden the MVP so how exactly do they hate his playing style? My guess is that there are some grumblings about his defensive effort and that the media has snowballed it into this. They added a huge new piece with Lawson, and with w/out Beverly, their defense lacks. Bever/Harden/Ariza/Jones/Howard should be their starters with Lawson, Thornton, Capela, Monteijunas as the bench. They need to figure out which lineups work together, so that James can score his 30 a night, and everyone will be happy.

While I agree with you (if they were winning, I doubt the players would care what James does, but his play is mainly the reason that they're losing), the bolder is off a bit. Lawson is already benched (McHale was going to do it before he got fired and JBB still did it) but Bev is out (again) with injury, making Jason Terry the starter again (he started last year when Bev went out). And DMo will be the starter when he comes back but he's been hurt all season.

FlashBolt
11-21-2015, 05:26 PM
I understand the bad play from the role players but that is why they are called role players. The superstars are the ones who have to step up. One is always injured/hasn't been healthy for quite some time. Even when he is healthy, he's no longer the dominant center he used to be and he can't score at all. Howard has to be a dominant opposing force. How does a rookie in Okafor have more scoring options than Howard? That is absurd. He has to be a 22/15 player if he wants to dominate (which won't happen). I'm thinking Harden just cares about the fabulous lifestyle of an NBA player more-so than winning. That huge Adidas contract probably made him care less or something. I'm surprised, really thought he would be the MVP this season and show some sort of leadership but he has been busy hiding behind fired coaches. And the worst part is he talks about how he should have been MVP and whatnot. Well, one guy is proving why he was the MVP and the other is just living in the past. For an elite team, you don't look at what your role players do from the bottom up. You gotta look at what your superstars do to help the role players get going.

lol, please
11-21-2015, 07:48 PM
I understand the bad play from the role players but that is why they are called role players. The superstars are the ones who have to step up. One is always injured/hasn't been healthy for quite some time. Even when he is healthy, he's no longer the dominant center he used to be and he can't score at all. Howard has to be a dominant opposing force. How does a rookie in Okafor have more scoring options than Howard? That is absurd. He has to be a 22/15 player if he wants to dominate (which won't happen). I'm thinking Harden just cares about the fabulous lifestyle of an NBA player more-so than winning. That huge Adidas contract probably made him care less or something. I'm surprised, really thought he would be the MVP this season and show some sort of leadership but he has been busy hiding behind fired coaches. And the worst part is he talks about how he should have been MVP and whatnot. Well, one guy is proving why he was the MVP and the other is just living in the past. For an elite team, you don't look at what your role players do from the bottom up. You gotta look at what your superstars do to help the role players get going.
Well said. Good post.

Gander13SM
11-21-2015, 08:25 PM
People are jumping the gun here imo.

Harden is an elite offensive player any way you slice it. He's going through a bit of a rocky start, but there's no way he doesn't revert back to his normal self soon enough.

He's been a top 10 player in this league for a couple years now. Form is temporary, class is permanent. This guy can ball.

On a side note, is it just me or are the Warriors getting lucky again? All the big threats are choking and dropping games or injured. Spurs are the only team worth mentioning.

(Just kidding, but I'm sure I'll see similar things being said soon in a more serious way).

Hardaway Here
11-21-2015, 11:34 PM
.

kyubi256
11-22-2015, 12:00 AM
He had a good defensive game today.

More-Than-Most
11-22-2015, 12:40 AM
I think they better fire their coach again because they still look as bad as they did before he got fired and Harden and Howard look like they are barely trying.

KnicksorBust
11-22-2015, 12:43 AM
He had a good defensive game today.

He actually did. Lmao. I was pissed watching it. I wanted lazy Harden.

D-Leethal
11-22-2015, 12:58 AM
Harden's iso ball stopping looks Melo look like he's playing hot potato.

Saddletramp
11-22-2015, 02:51 AM
The Rockets (Harden) looked better tonight. Carmelo looked like an average player at best. I only noticed him a few plays. But hey, they got the win so congrats.

IBleedPurple
11-22-2015, 06:07 AM
So players know less than writers? Don't think so.

I think had the players vote been done without the knowledge of the MVP chase the result may have been different. The players were just saying to Harden that he was great too (which he was).What? When players vote for MVP they aren't aware of the MVP chase?

lol, please
11-22-2015, 11:50 AM
He actually did. Lmao. I was pissed watching it. I wanted lazy Harden.
[emoji23]

Scoots
11-22-2015, 01:52 PM
What? When players vote for MVP they aren't aware of the MVP chase?

My point was that the players voted knowing Curry had won the "real" MVP award so they were more likely to vote for the guy who finished 2nd. Not that it's important.

D-Leethal
11-22-2015, 01:54 PM
The Rockets (Harden) looked better tonight. Carmelo looked like an average player at best. I only noticed him a few plays. But hey, they got the win so congrats.

Melo was in foul trouble the entire game, I think he played about 2 minutes between the 2nd and 3rd quarters. He shot well and gave us 14-6 in just over 20 minutes. Didn't need him though, and when he was on the court, he didn't force it and didn't ball stop. Thats probably why you didn't notice him.

I wasn't talking about last night though, was talking in general terms. Harden's ball stopping iso tactics is way worse than Melo's on his worst day.