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ClutchTime
11-18-2015, 11:09 AM
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2015/11/18/9754544/Kevin-mchale-fired-houston-rockets

After a disappointing 4-7 start to the season, the*Houston Rockets*have fired head coach*Kevin McHale, according to*Adrian Wojnarowski of Yahoo! Sports. Assistant coach*J.B. Bickerstaf will take over head coaching duties on an interim basis while Chris Finch will become associate head coach, per*Wojnarowski.

More details to come.

YAALREADYKNO
11-18-2015, 11:11 AM
Well damn that came outta nowhere

Lakers + Giants
11-18-2015, 11:15 AM
No more excuses. I keep seeing rockets fans post that the players weren't motivated because of mchale, that's not the coach's job. If players arent motivated on their own then they got bigger problems. They better step it up now.

Mr. Baller
11-18-2015, 11:16 AM
Needed to happen. Team is just giving no effort out there

kdspurman
11-18-2015, 11:20 AM
Needed to happen. Team is just giving no effort out there

Is that really McHale's fault though? They seemed to give more effort than this last year

Crackadalic
11-18-2015, 11:26 AM
Scopegoat. Just admit the team doesn't have any leadership from it's star player when the team is down

Scoots
11-18-2015, 11:34 AM
Well damn that came outta nowhere

They've been talking about it on ESPN radio for a week at least.

Any idea why the first McHale fired thread was closed?

FYL_McVeezy
11-18-2015, 11:35 AM
Dumb

Scoots
11-18-2015, 11:45 AM
No more excuses. I keep seeing rockets fans post that the players weren't motivated because of mchale, that's not the coach's job. If players arent motivated on their own then they got bigger problems. They better step it up now.

I disagree. The coach is the only person who can get the whole team together working at their best. You need players who are self motivating too, but not everyone is motivated the same way. If a player is under performing the coach is the person who controls their minutes, and is the only one who can tell them "fix it or you don't play" The best coaches put their players in the best situations to succeed which leads to more motivated players. The SF Giants don't win without Bochy managing the personalities in the clubhouse, the playing time on the field, and the game strategy.

I don't think McHale is the main issue, and the firing seems like giving up awfully quickly in this season, but to say that coaches have no responsibility for the effort the players on the floor give is just too simplistic a position.

kdspurman
11-18-2015, 11:47 AM
I disagree. The coach is the only person who can get the whole team together working at their best. You need players who are self motivating too, but not everyone is motivated the same way. If a player is under performing the coach is the person who controls their minutes, and is the only one who can tell them "fix it or you don't play" The best coaches put their players in the best situations to succeed which leads to more motivated players. The SF Giants don't win without Bochy managing the personalities in the clubhouse, the playing time on the field, and the game strategy.

I don't think McHale is the main issue, and the firing seems like giving up awfully quickly in this season, but to say that coaches have no responsibility for the effort the players on the floor give is just too simplistic a position.

I'd agree with that, however they had motivation last year it seemed. Harden was making an effort at times to play defense, guys seemed to be playing with a purpose. What changed from last year to this year?

GunFactor187
11-18-2015, 11:49 AM
Back to the Timberwolves perhaps?

WaDe03
11-18-2015, 12:02 PM
The amount of power Lil B and the Kardashians have is crazy.

sep11ie
11-18-2015, 12:03 PM
It is too hard to play basketball with no gameplan...like ever...

Mr. Baller
11-18-2015, 12:04 PM
Is that really McHale's fault though? They seemed to give more effort than this last year

I mean if he lost the locker room, then its time for a change. Don't think its his fault, but they can't keep getting blown out the gym every night and not expect a move to be made. This team has too much for talent for this.

Twolves88
11-18-2015, 12:04 PM
Back to the Timberwolves perhaps?

Please no. Keep him out of our country club. We already have the next in line from the club in mitchell....

Wade n Fade
11-18-2015, 12:08 PM
The Rockets lack quality backup bigs. When Howard and Jones are out, you cannot put Montejunas and Capella out there and expect to win consistently. Houston should've parted ways with Jones ages ago. Holding onto him for this long shows he has talent but is so frequently injured, that it's like he is never there. A trade for Chris Andersen would help Houston provide a plug and play C to give Harden a rest. Can't start a 2nd rounder at the 4 imo.

Scoots
11-18-2015, 12:13 PM
I'd agree with that, however they had motivation last year it seemed. Harden was making an effort at times to play defense, guys seemed to be playing with a purpose. What changed from last year to this year?

There were a lot of roster changes. I was surprised with some of them, but I didn't expect the result would be such lackluster play overall.

Scoots
11-18-2015, 12:20 PM
The Rockets lack quality backup bigs. When Howard and Jones are out, you cannot put Montejunas and Capella out there and expect to win consistently. Houston should've parted ways with Jones ages ago. Holding onto him for this long shows he has talent but is so frequently injured, that it's like he is never there. A trade for Chris Andersen would help Houston provide a plug and play C to give Harden a rest. Can't start a 2nd rounder at the 4 imo.

The +/- numbers for Capella MASSIVELY support playing him over Howard, so I'm not sure you have that right.

Probably the most surprising thing from watching a few rockets games this year is Harden's regression to playing nearly no D. Last year people called him a good defender ... it was never true, but at least he was trying hard and it showed on the teams defensive rating and on Harden's off/on numbers. Now Harden is nearly a minus 8 on defensive rating (Howard and Lawson the ones who are often blamed are nearly neutral on their defensive off/on numbers).

Everybody on the team is playing worse it seems (except maybe Capella, but nobody expected anything out of him anyhow). Some of that is the coaches fault, but it's not all on the coach either.

Wade n Fade
11-18-2015, 12:37 PM
The +/- numbers for Capella MASSIVELY support playing him over Howard, so I'm not sure you have that right.

Probably the most surprising thing from watching a few rockets games this year is Harden's regression to playing nearly no D. Last year people called him a good defender ... it was never true, but at least he was trying hard and it showed on the teams defensive rating and on Harden's off/on numbers. Now Harden is nearly a minus 8 on defensive rating (Howard and Lawson the ones who are often blamed are nearly neutral on their defensive off/on numbers).

Everybody on the team is playing worse it seems (except maybe Capella, but nobody expected anything out of him anyhow). Some of that is the coaches fault, but it's not all on the coach either.

+/- is just a fraction of evaluating a player's value. I think Capela isn't a quality big because he is not consistent enough. I think that Houston needs to acquire another PF or C. Maybe they can swing a package to Utah for Favors, mainly by trading away Jones, a few contracts, and picks? Or could they want to trade for a Denver big? Big Zebo would help the most because he is a proven vet and Memphis could look to move away from him after a bad start.

rhino17
11-18-2015, 12:38 PM
He lost the locker room, that much was clear. Ty Lawson said this week that the team would openly ignore defensive plays called by McHale

Something had to happen, not necessarily McHale's fault (although no one on earth would call him a "good" coach), but they had to move away from him if he has lost the team


The Rockets lack quality backup bigs. When Howard and Jones are out, you cannot put Montejunas and Capella out there and expect to win consistently. Houston should've parted ways with Jones ages ago. Holding onto him for this long shows he has talent but is so frequently injured, that it's like he is never there. A trade for Chris Andersen would help Houston provide a plug and play C to give Harden a rest. Can't start a 2nd rounder at the 4 imo.

WHat?!?!?

Vee-Rex
11-18-2015, 12:39 PM
The amount of power Lil B and the Kardashians have is crazy.

:laugh:

Wade n Fade
11-18-2015, 12:53 PM
He lost the locker room, that much was clear. Ty Lawson said this week that the team would openly ignore defensive plays called by McHale

Something had to happen, not necessarily McHale's fault (although no one on earth would call him a "good" coach), but they had to move away from him if he has lost the team



WHat?!?!?

You read what I typed? If you don't understand, then G-d help you.

PurpleLynch
11-18-2015, 12:55 PM
The Rockets lack quality backup bigs. When Howard and Jones are out, you cannot put Montejunas and Capella out there and expect to win consistently. Houston should've parted ways with Jones ages ago. Holding onto him for this long shows he has talent but is so frequently injured, that it's like he is never there. A trade for Chris Andersen would help Houston provide a plug and play C to give Harden a rest. Can't start a 2nd rounder at the 4 imo.

Actually,Houston's defensive rating is just a little better with Howard in(like 2 or 3 points better than the lineup with Capela),but their offensive rating skyrocks with Capela in and Howard out(like 20 points better or something). I'm not even joking,it's just stats.
There's clearly a problem and,while I didn't like McHale as a coach,I'm not convinced about his total responsability.
Harden and Howard aren't doing their job well,while Lawson is just turning the ball over:at this pace,it will be the worst season of his career considering only his turnovers.
It's early in the season and they have the talent to do better than this imo.

rhino17
11-18-2015, 12:57 PM
You read what I typed? If you don't understand, then G-d help you.

My reaction was to your "analysis," which made little sense.

Motijunas is their best big man and absolute best post player on the team. Jones is hot garbage, they should kept Smith, he fits the team a lot better. And Cappella is one of the best backup centers i the league. The rockets are one of the deepest teams in the NBA, effort and giving a **** is their problem

rhino17
11-18-2015, 01:03 PM
Looks like Scotty Brooks is the favorite to take over

Also considering Thibs and JVG

shep33
11-18-2015, 01:04 PM
Feel bad. Way too early. But maybe it pays off

kdspurman
11-18-2015, 01:07 PM
Looks like Scotty Brooks is the favorite to take over

Also considering Thibs and JVG

Brooks?? lol.. He's got ties to Harden but idk if he gets them over the top.

And i would be shocked if JVG considered it, after what happened w/Dwight & Stan tbh.

Vinylman
11-18-2015, 01:24 PM
The only reason it didn't happen last season was because they made it to the conference finals after the Clipper collapse...

McHale is an average coach but this is definitely driven by harden and howard lacking any kind of leadership...

Gonna laugh my *** off when Rockets have to give Howard a Max 5 year deal this offseason or lose him... either outcome is a disaster...

sep11ie
11-18-2015, 01:25 PM
So matter what it's gonna be someone with some Houston ties, Brooks, JVG(PLEASE!), Thibs or Mark Jackson.

tredigs
11-18-2015, 01:33 PM
I'd agree with that, however they had motivation last year it seemed. Harden was making an effort at times to play defense, guys seemed to be playing with a purpose. What changed from last year to this year?

Hint: http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/11/11/08/2E54B01E00000578-0-image-m-3_1447230653134.jpg

When your teams best players are Harden/Howard/Lawson, it's only a matter of time before implosion.

Scoots
11-18-2015, 02:00 PM
+/- is just a fraction of evaluating a player's value. I think Capela isn't a quality big because he is not consistent enough. I think that Houston needs to acquire another PF or C. Maybe they can swing a package to Utah for Favors, mainly by trading away Jones, a few contracts, and picks? Or could they want to trade for a Denver big? Big Zebo would help the most because he is a proven vet and Memphis could look to move away from him after a bad start.

I don't think Capella is a star or anything but the implication was that everybody other than the starters were hot garbage and Capella actually has been better than he was last year and is pretty good at some things.

NYKnickFanatic
11-18-2015, 02:06 PM
Any chance Thibs takes over this team this year?

phantasyyy
11-18-2015, 02:13 PM
Pretty strange firing even with their struggles, with the amount of injuries/new faces the team has had to adjust to..

Bevs & Howard is still working his way back to game shape playing in only 7 games each.
Montejunas whom hasn't even returned from injury yet.
Lawson who is adjusting to a new system.
As well as the losses of key rotational players in Smith and Prig.

Seems like a bit of an over-reach after only 11 games.. but then again the way they've been losing has been atrocious. Defensively their a mess but diving into the raw numbers offensively and you'll see that:
Perimeter players
Ariza is shooting 33.6%(31.6%) 11.4ppg/5.5reb/1.9ast
Brewer is shooting 29.9%(13.%) 6.3ppg/2.6reb/1.6ast
Harden is shooting 37.2%(26.2%) 27.3ppg/6reb/5.8ast
Lawson is shooting 33.3%(27.3%) 8.9ppg/3.5reb/5.6ast
Beverly is shooting 34.2%(33.3%) 4.7ppg/3.1reb/1.1 ast
Thornton is shooting 42.5%(34.5%) 13.1ppg/3.9reb/2.2ast
Terry is shooting 41.2%(33.3%) 4.4pppg/.6reb/1.1ast

Absolutely awful. not one starter above 40%, and the reserves just barely above.

Bigs
Howard shooting 62.9% 15ppg/12.6reb/1.7ast
Capela shooting 75% 7.6ppg/6.2reb/0.5ast
Harrell shooting 71.4% 4.9ppg/2.2reb
Jones shooting 53.1%(33.3%) 13.3ppg/5.8reb/1.3ast

AllBall
11-18-2015, 02:18 PM
Well, that was a knee jerk reaction.

No way JVG or Brooks takes the job.

Houston will have to settle for Thibs.

Regardless, a coaching change is not what was going to take that team to the next level.

West seems to be wide open at #4-8 seeds now more than ever.

Hawkeye15
11-18-2015, 02:22 PM
He lost the locker room, that much was clear. Ty Lawson said this week that the team would openly ignore defensive plays called by McHale

Something had to happen, not necessarily McHale's fault (although no one on earth would call him a "good" coach), but they had to move away from him if he has lost the team


and McHale's only strength is his ability to get players working hard and playing hard for him. He has never been an X and O guy. Rockets had no choice in the matter.

Hawkeye15
11-18-2015, 02:23 PM
Well, that was a knee jerk reaction.

No way JVG or Brooks takes the job.

Houston will have to settle for Thibs.

Regardless, a coaching change is not what was going to take that team to the next level.

West seems to be wide open at #4-8 seeds now more than ever.

Harden is not going to like Thibs

kdspurman
11-18-2015, 02:24 PM
Harden is not going to like Thibs

Idk if Dwight will either tbh

kdspurman
11-18-2015, 02:27 PM
Hint: http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/11/11/08/2E54B01E00000578-0-image-m-3_1447230653134.jpg

When your teams best players are Harden/Howard/Lawson, it's only a matter of time before implosion.

Yea, that makes sense lol.. My thing is now it's McHale's fault that these guys aren't playing well or motivated? That doesn't make sense to me.

Scoots
11-18-2015, 02:29 PM
Thibs, Brooks, JVG, and Jackson all seem like disaster coaching choices.

I think they should wait until the offseason when they can go after a lot more options.

AllBall
11-18-2015, 02:29 PM
Harden is not going to like Thibs



Idk if Dwight will either tbh

Well, if they need a rah! rah! guy then they get Mark Jackson.

diu9leilomo
11-18-2015, 02:39 PM
can rockets please take casey from us, - raps fan

thank you

JasonJohnHorn
11-18-2015, 02:50 PM
Just an excuse to bring in a better coach. This slow start is clearly due to injuries, and not coaching.

That said, this roster does need an upgrade at coach if they expect to contend.

JasonJohnHorn
11-18-2015, 02:51 PM
can rockets please take casey from us, - raps fan

thank you

Casey does a great job with the pieces he has. The only think you can fault him for is over achieving and hurting our draft position.

NYKnickFanatic
11-18-2015, 02:59 PM
What's with Raps fans and Casey? What is so bad about him?

phantasyyy
11-18-2015, 03:10 PM
What's with Raps fans and Casey? What is so bad about him?

everything

QuatreBarton
11-18-2015, 03:53 PM
What's with Raps fans and Casey? What is so bad about him?

He runs plays that make no sense for the players on the team, actually scratch that he doesn't run plays ever, his defensive schemes only work with certain types of players and he constantly says things that make no sense whatsoever to the media all the time.

Scoots
11-18-2015, 04:14 PM
Uh oh ... the Rockets are going to come for Luke Walton ... he's 12-0 and the Rox know it's all the coach :)

tredigs
11-18-2015, 04:40 PM
https://twitter.com/BillSimmons/status/667004967606030337

Haha, crazy but true.

Also crazy that so many people (including 51% of those in the Association) felt he was the MVP. Cream rises, all I'll say about that.

Sorry Rox fans, don't mean to pile on... but that's sort of what this fan-base rivarly (can't call it a real rivalry) has become.

Saddletramp
11-18-2015, 04:48 PM
Apologies if someone already corrected you as I always finish a thread before I comment/quote but this post is pretty ridiculous.


The Rockets lack quality backup bigs. When Howard and Jones are out, you cannot put Montejunas and Capella out there and expect to win consistently.

Capella is turning into a capable big and DMo hasn't played since weeks before the playoffs last year.


Houston should've parted ways with Jones ages ago. Holding onto him for this long shows he has talent but is so frequently injured, that it's like he is never there.

Jones shows flashes (like he'll have a great game and then 4 bad ones in a row) but he's not their starter, DMo is. Also, you kind of contradicted yourself.


A trade for Chris Andersen would help Houston provide a plug and play C to give Harden a rest. Can't start a 2nd rounder at the 4 imo.

Still trying to get rid of Andersen, eh? Also, DMo and Jones are both mid first rounders.

JasonJohnHorn
11-18-2015, 04:52 PM
Harden is not going to like Thibs

Thibs is not going to like Harden! lol

OKC would be ideal for Thibs I think.

Ariza's Better
11-18-2015, 04:59 PM
The rockets will roll with JB for the rest of the season and make a more permanent choice in the off-season which is right move. At the moment it's probably JB's job to loose.
I'm good with firing McHale, while its not 100% McHale's fault, he has to take some of the blame. When his main strength is getting players to play for him and they don't play for him, the coach has to go. McHale did a good job getting the rockets to a point, but rockets need a coach to take them over that final hump. I can see McHale getting a job as a coach with a young developing team which would suit him.

TrueFan420
11-18-2015, 05:03 PM
I wonder who they target

Saddletramp
11-18-2015, 05:14 PM
Yea, that makes sense lol.. My thing is now it's McHale's fault that these guys aren't playing well or motivated? That doesn't make sense to me.


What I posted in the Rockets forum thread:

Well, I guess they didn't like McHale anymore after all. Shocking/not shocking that he got fired.

Oh, and by the way, if Harden wasn't playing his hardest because he had beef with McHale (or anybody for that matter), that's garbage and embarrassing. This isn't middle school and you're not doing this for free. Act like a goddamn professional.

SteBO
11-18-2015, 05:30 PM
Team underachieves to start the year....the coaches fault. Rinse and repeat, it's the same stupidity.

kdspurman
11-18-2015, 05:34 PM
What I posted in the Rockets forum thread:

Well, I guess they didn't like McHale anymore after all. Shocking/not shocking that he got fired.

Oh, and by the way, if Harden wasn't playing his hardest because he had beef with McHale (or anybody for that matter), that's garbage and embarrassing. This isn't middle school and you're not doing this for free. Act like a goddamn professional.

Agreed 100%

Scoots
11-18-2015, 05:43 PM
Oh, and by the way, if Harden wasn't playing his hardest because he had beef with McHale (or anybody for that matter), that's garbage and embarrassing. This isn't middle school and you're not doing this for free. Act like a goddamn professional.

too right.

smith&wesson
11-18-2015, 05:59 PM
Thibs could coach the Rockets to a ship imo... but Howards lackadaisical attitude, and Hardens defense would drive Thibs crazy.

Oefarmy2005
11-18-2015, 06:20 PM
To anyone that says it's the coaches job to motivate players, let me ask you this. Is there any chance this team doesn't play hard if KG is the starting PF? Heck no. The leaders of the team are the ones who have to make sure their teammates are pulling their weight, ideally, leading by example. Absolutely stupid fire and way, way too early into the season. I feel bad for the Rocs, but they were the ones who paired Harden and Howard with zero veteran leadership, not to mention adding Lawson who was already a problem in the Denver locker room.

numba1CHANGsta
11-18-2015, 06:32 PM
Lol the Rockets are dumb for firing McHale. The problem isn't him, it's the roster. First off Dwight was out for some games which the Rockets lost. Another reason is the Rockets have no true PG or PF, the bench isn't that good, Dwight is overrated, and Harden is dating a Kardashian.

nyknicks1969
11-18-2015, 06:37 PM
Amazing how the smartest man in the world, Morey, gets off again with building a flawed squad.

8 years. No results that matter. 4th Coach.

smith&wesson
11-18-2015, 06:56 PM
Lol the Rockets are dumb for firing McHale. The problem isn't him, it's the roster. First off Dwight was out for some games which the Rockets lost. Another reason is the Rockets have no true PG or PF, the bench isn't that good, Dwight is overrated, and Harden is dating a Kardashian.

If you ask me Lawson/Beverly is a pretty dam good combination at the pg spot.

Saddletramp
11-18-2015, 07:11 PM
Whoever said that Harden's defense is back to being bad again this year is totally right. I thought he would at least keep up his average defense he attributed last year but it's back to being awful again.


I'm just going to chalk this up that the guys are back on the same page with a "fresh" coach and are going to play better and get it together going forward. They looked pretty good in the preseason so let's just consider that the first 11 games was another preseason, only those games count.

Man, that's embarrassing to type, let alone think.



If you ask me Lawson/Beverly is a pretty dam good combination at the pg spot.

On paper. But they haven't been performing well (yet, hopefully).

MonroeFAN
11-18-2015, 07:16 PM
No more excuses. I keep seeing rockets fans post that the players weren't motivated because of mchale, that's not the coach's job. If players arent motivated on their own then they got bigger problems. They better step it up now.

No more excuses? They won 56 games and made the WCF last year losing only to a team who doesn't look beatable.

Firing McHale should have come long after releasing Lawson. This is just stupid.

G_S_W
11-18-2015, 09:07 PM
The rockets are imploding.

Ty is busy getting drunk every night, DHo is chasing after his namesake, and Harden has completely gone off the rails.

Basically Maury Povich has collected 3 of the largest knuckleheads in the association and the chickens have come home to roost.

Re-signing a totally clueless mchale to try to rein them was a recipe for disaster. Even the clips couldn't save this team for very long.

More-Than-Most
11-18-2015, 09:19 PM
God forbid if a team ever actually put it on the players and didnt use the coach as a scape goat.. I ****ing hate this I really do... Why do players not playing hard or playing like **** because they didnt do **** in the offseason but party fall on the coaches shoulders?

More-Than-Most
11-18-2015, 09:21 PM
Scopegoat. Just admit the team doesn't have any leadership from it's star player when the team is down

pretty much spot ****ing on... This and Kobe was 100 percent right about Dwight. I am so sick of **** falling on the coach when you have 2 of the top players who just dont show up... The coach cant force people to play and cant bench the star players in fear of losing their jobs. Its ********

I hope they lose every ****ing game now.

WaDe03
11-18-2015, 09:21 PM
Lil B tweeted today about how he cursed Kevin Mchale for signing off to sale Harden bobble heads of him doing Lil Bs cooking dance without his permission. The result of the curse, Mchale is fired. If Harden doesn't apologize and give the basedgod the credit he deserves its just going to keep going downhill from here.

Also Khloe Kardashian will turn Harden into the next Odom. Kim Kardashian and Reggie Bush who was terrible after her, Kanye West is trash now and is talking about running for president. The Kardashian curse is real. Harden still has time to turn these things around but if he doesnt apologize and pictures of Harden and Romo/Beiber come out then there's no coming back for him.

Also look at Kevin Durant. After he talked trash about Lil B and Lil B came out with the song **** Kevin Durant he's been injury prone and hasn't made the finals since. I fear it's only going to get worse for the Thunder since Lil B and Westbrook have been beefing as well and Lil B said he looked like a sandwich.

HOW MANY MORE HAVE TO SUFFER BASED GOD!?

PraiseJesus
11-18-2015, 09:26 PM
The Rockets are a team of selfish primadonnas that play ugly basketball

Ariza's Better
11-18-2015, 10:56 PM
God forbid if a team ever actually put it on the players and didnt use the coach as a scape goat.. I ****ing hate this I really do... Why do players not playing hard or playing like **** because they didnt do **** in the offseason but party fall on the coaches shoulders?


pretty much spot ****ing on... This and Kobe was 100 percent right about Dwight. I am so sick of **** falling on the coach when you have 2 of the top players who just dont show up... The coach cant force people to play and cant bench the star players in fear of losing their jobs. Its ********

I hope they lose every ****ing game now.
I'm sorry but this is the biggest load of ****. Yes a coach can't force players to play but he can motivate them. And if their still underperforming they should be benched. Why was Brewer and Ariza playing ahead of KJ? Why did McHale keep benching Harnell when he was the only on scoring? Why hadn't rockets offense evolved in the pre-season? Why wasn't Lawson eased into the starting line up rather than starting straight away? Why was TJ getting so many mins? Why for a team that ran a lot of pick and rolls couldn't defend the pick and roll? Why wasn't Decker giving a chance?
As I said McHale isn't 100% to blame but a lot falls on his shoulders.

More-Than-Most
11-18-2015, 11:10 PM
I'm sorry but this is the biggest load of ****. Yes a coach can't force players to play but he can motivate them. And if their still underperforming they should be benched. Why was Brewer and Ariza playing ahead of KJ? Why did McHale keep benching Harnell when he was the only on scoring? Why hadn't rockets offense evolved in the pre-season? Why wasn't Lawson eased into the starting line up rather than starting straight away? Why was TJ getting so many mins? Why for a team that ran a lot of pick and rolls couldn't defend the pick and roll? Why wasn't Decker giving a chance?
As I said McHale isn't 100% to blame but a lot falls on his shoulders.

No... No it doesnt its a flat out excuse to try and fire the guys up which by the way usually happens if it is the coach the very next game... They are getting back into this game but have played like **** tonight as well against a bad blazers team... ITS THE PLAYERS... They should not need to be motivated... Grown *** men whom are suppose to be superstars should not need to be motivated or have their hands held... Whats the excuse gonna be now? will it be the GM next or the owner next or the bench players next and so on down the list.

Its a load of **** to you because you and your fan base thinks your players like Harden walk on water and they can do no wrong... When this bites them in the *** I wonder what the excuses will be next... It cant be the superstar player who shoots 50 times a game and doesnt play a lick of defense. Nope its the coach.

Ariza's Better
11-19-2015, 12:37 AM
No... No it doesnt its a flat out excuse to try and fire the guys up which by the way usually happens if it is the coach the very next game... They are getting back into this game but have played like **** tonight as well against a bad blazers team... ITS THE PLAYERS... They should not need to be motivated... Grown *** men whom are suppose to be superstars should not need to be motivated or have their hands held... Whats the excuse gonna be now? will it be the GM next or the owner next or the bench players next and so on down the list.

Its a load of **** to you because you and your fan base thinks your players like Harden walk on water and they can do no wrong... When this bites them in the *** I wonder what the excuses will be next... It cant be the superstar player who shoots 50 times a game and doesnt play a lick of defense. Nope its the coach.
So your saying the rockets should kept going with a coach who is failing at the one thing he is good at? I hope you know how stupid you sound. By the way the problems I listed aren't new problems, they have been facing ever since McHale took over as coach. The only reason he kept his job so long was because he could motivate players which he couldn't do anymore. Also don't try that "rockets fans only make excuses for harden" ********. You ask any rockets fan on this forum who was the biggest critic of harden during last post-season. But naw, McHale is the perfect coach apparently. Man it's easy to play that card.

Scoots
11-19-2015, 01:51 AM
Amazing how the smartest man in the world, Morey, gets off again with building a flawed squad.

8 years. No results that matter. 4th Coach.

Can you imagine what Morey would do to this team to add KD? He would probably trade anyone but Harden for KD and then they'd be learning a new offense under a new coach with yet another largely changed roster.

WCF appearance, blow up the team, struggle with an injured and flawed roster, fire the coach.

Morey is very capable of making the big deals ... but I'm not so sure about team building.

Scoots
11-19-2015, 02:14 AM
Heard a story that Westbrook is already dismissing Donovan's calls out of huddles and ignoring him during play. If the players refuse to listen at some point it becomes evident it's not all the coach ... but the Warriors showed that if the players are eager to learn and play as a team a new coach can make a huge difference.

Saddletramp
11-19-2015, 02:30 AM
Heard a story that Westbrook is already dismissing Donovan's calls out of huddles and ignoring him during play. If the players refuse to listen at some point it becomes evident it's not all the coach ... but the Warriors showed that if the players are eager to learn and play as a team a new coach can make a huge difference.

Every situation is different. That's pretty much what it boils down to. If Kerr woulda taken over the Thunder (with KD) do you think they would be champs and unbeaten this year? Do you think Brooks or McHale could have turned that Warriors team into champs and undefeated this year? Maybe, I guess. Sometimes it's just the perfect storm, sometimes it's just two or more things that don't correlate.

I'm sure the Warriors were eager to learn and play as a team under Jackson.

Saddletramp
11-19-2015, 02:40 AM
I'm sorry but this is the biggest load of ****. Yes a coach can't force players to play but he can motivate them. And if their still underperforming they should be benched.

I'm sorry but as much as I want to agree with a fellow Rockets fan, and disagree agree with More Than Most, I gotta pick this post apart. The biggest underperformer was Harden and no way is he being benched.


Why was Brewer and Ariza playing ahead of KJ?

Ariza is the starter and is playing his role better than probably anybody on the team so far. Brewer is looking bad but it's not like KJ is a 10 year vet playing great. Give it time. KJ might take Brewer's spot, but not yet.


Why did McHale keep benching Harnell when he was the only on scoring?

Harrell is a rookie. If the lone rookie playing is one of the bright spots (and he is), than you have bigger concerns.


Why hadn't rockets offense evolved in the pre-season? Why wasn't Lawson eased into the starting line up rather than starting straight away?

It's early, give it time.


Why was TJ getting so many mins? Why for a team that ran a lot of pick and rolls couldn't defend the pick and roll? Why wasn't Decker giving a chance?

1) TJ is the starter with DMo out. Harrell isn't ready to be the guy yet and Thornton was ok in small doses when going small.
2) The players didn't care and/or weren't prepared.
3) Decker was/is hurt.


As I said McHale isn't 100% to blame but a lot falls on his shoulders.

Yes and yes.

Scoots
11-19-2015, 02:51 AM
Every situation is different. That's pretty much what it boils down to. If Kerr woulda taken over the Thunder (with KD) do you think they would be champs and unbeaten this year? Do you think Brooks or McHale could have turned that Warriors team into champs and undefeated this year? Maybe, I guess. Sometimes it's just the perfect storm, sometimes it's just two or more things that don't correlate.

I'm sure the Warriors were eager to learn and play as a team under Jackson.

My point was that every situation is different ... McHale wasn't perfect for sure, but the players are far from innocent in the results the Rockets have had this year. It's a lot easier to replace the coach than the players ... but chances are some players are going to go too.

I think the Warriors success with a coaching change may have increased the rate of coaching changes in the league.

Saddletramp
11-19-2015, 02:56 AM
My point was that every situation is different ... McHale wasn't perfect for sure, but the players are far from innocent in the results the Rockets have had this year. It's a lot easier to replace the coach than the players ... but chances are some players are going to go too.

I think the Warriors success with a coaching change may have increased the rate of coaching changes in the league.

1) Yeah, Morey's not done.
2) You may be right.

Ariza's Better
11-19-2015, 03:19 AM
I'm sorry but as much as I want to agree with a fellow Rockets fan, and disagree agree with More Than Most, I gotta pick this post apart. The biggest underperformer was Harden and no way is he being benched.



Ariza is the starter and is playing his role better than probably anybody on the team so far. Brewer is looking bad but it's not like KJ is a 10 year vet playing great. Give it time. KJ might take Brewer's spot, but not yet.



Harrell is a rookie. If the lone rookie playing is one of the bright spots (and he is), than you have bigger concerns.



It's early, give it time.



1) TJ is the starter with DMo out. Harrell isn't ready to be the guy yet and Thornton was ok in small doses when going small.
2) The players didn't care and/or weren't prepared.
3) Decker was/is hurt.



Yes and yes.
As I said in my other post these aren't new problems, it's a running theme. McHale refusing to change things was a huge problem. And lets not pretend McHale hadn't benched a star player when he wasn't playing well.

G_S_W
11-19-2015, 05:00 AM
The Rockets are trash.

One play, and one play only. Harden ISO!

Scoots
11-19-2015, 12:01 PM
The Rockets are trash.

One play, and one play only. Harden ISO!

I wonder how much of that was McHale and how much was Harden. The Rockets won with Harden taking 29 shots, going 4-15 from 3, and Howard taking 5 shots. That sort of thing just reinforces the bad behavior. Last year's success seems to have made things worse.

AllBall
11-19-2015, 12:16 PM
As I said in my other post these aren't new problems, it's a running theme. McHale refusing to change things was a huge problem. And lets not pretend McHale hadn't benched a star player when he wasn't playing well.

Are you saying that he crossed a line doing that? Because I don't think so.

Ariza's Better
11-19-2015, 03:27 PM
Are you saying that he crossed a line doing that? Because I don't think so.
No, read my other posts. I'm saying he has done it before so what was stopping him this season.

rhino17
11-19-2015, 03:57 PM
People who don't follow the rockets are totally clueless as to the situation. No one has ever thought highly of kevin mchale as the coach. He was there as a figurehead and really has no discernable coaching skills. McHale didn't create any defensive schemes, that was entirely JB. Chris Finch runs the entire offense without input from McHale. He was a nobody who wore out his welcome and started rubbing people the wrong way, coaching staff included. Kevin is a nice guy, but he is in no way shape or form a good coach. The players respect JB and Finch more because they are the actual guys that help run the team.

G_S_W
11-19-2015, 04:14 PM
people who don't follow the rockets are totally clueless as to the situation. No one has ever thought highly of kevin mchale as the coach. He was there as a figurehead and really has no discernable coaching skills. Mchale didn't create any defensive schemes, that was entirely jb. chris finch runs the entire offense without input from mchale. he was a nobody who wore out his welcome and started rubbing people the wrong way, coaching staff included. Kevin is a nice guy, but he is in no way shape or form a good coach. The players respect jb and finch more because they are the actual guys that help run the team.

iso!

Htownballa1622
11-19-2015, 04:30 PM
I just find it funny how clueless and ignorant people are when it comes to what goes on in Houston.
You've got idiots like Stephen A. Smith screaming it's Dwight's fault when in reality, he already lost the locker room.
"He's coming off of a WCF birth...It's 11 games!"
Exactly, LAST YEAR we made the wcf. It's THIS year that the players have quit (Harden). I guess we should have just stayed getting BLOWN out by inferior teams until it was too late for a turnaround?

This team has major issues. McHale wasn't the ONLY issue but at this point it was time for a change. IMO he should have been fired after the Portland series two years ago.

Now, he's let go and gets his 12 million over the next 3 years and ppl are crying over it? STFU Espn. Carlisle can STFU. If you don't follow the team you're probably ignorant to what's going on.

G_S_W
11-19-2015, 10:52 PM
Rumors are that Maury's job is on the line.

Les is on the warpath and no one is safe.

slashsnake
11-20-2015, 08:10 AM
Honestly Kevin McHale doesn't turn the needle for me as a head coach. I can't say he wins or loses more games than (insert random ok coach here). I never really looked at them and said "wow, that's a 40 win team he got 55 wins out of" or "wow, those free agents are lining up to play for him".

So why not change the coach, get everyone a bit nervous, shake things up. You don't want to do that with your players yet. You aren't getting back equal value if you start dumping them off when you are losing.

Scoots
11-20-2015, 12:36 PM
Honestly Kevin McHale doesn't turn the needle for me as a head coach. I can't say he wins or loses more games than (insert random ok coach here). I never really looked at them and said "wow, that's a 40 win team he got 55 wins out of" or "wow, those free agents are lining up to play for him".

So why not change the coach, get everyone a bit nervous, shake things up. You don't want to do that with your players yet. You aren't getting back equal value if you start dumping them off when you are losing.

The issue there is that if McHale wasn't the coach for the long term then he should have been replaced in the off-season. Coaches have been replaced after winning seasons in the past, it's not all THAT uncommon really.

rhino17
11-20-2015, 12:48 PM
The issue there is that if McHale wasn't the coach for the long term then he should have been replaced in the off-season. Coaches have been replaced after winning seasons in the past, it's not all THAT uncommon really.

I don't think that is true. I think the deal was that it was Kevin's team until he lost it, which happened over the past couple weeks. He KNEW this was not his team for the long haul. He was not allowed to hire any assistant coaches on his own. He was given JB and Finch by Morey and Morey's long game has always been to have Finch be the eventual head coach. It was just a matter of time before those 2 guys moved up.

Scoots
11-20-2015, 01:10 PM
I don't think that is true. I think the deal was that it was Kevin's team until he lost it, which happened over the past couple weeks. He KNEW this was not his team for the long haul. He was not allowed to hire any assistant coaches on his own. He was given JB and Finch by Morey and Morey's long game has always been to have Finch be the eventual head coach. It was just a matter of time before those 2 guys moved up.

The Warriors had suggestions for Mark Jackson on his coaches but let him choose his own assistants and one more year to prove his worth, the team made the playoffs and played better but they fired him because the GM/Owner saw he wasn't the guy to take them to the next level. It sounds like the Rockets had the plan to replace McHale in place, so they should have done it in the off season. There is nothing to gain by staying with a coach who the front office, players, and the public know isn't the guy for another month, and by most accounts his job was in trouble last season so he should have been quietly let go in July.

FlashBolt
11-20-2015, 01:46 PM
Haha, stop blaming the coach. Your players were horrific to start with. McHale might be an average coach but he's also the scapegoat here. Let's look at the real reason why they aren't doing well.. Howard missed 4 games, Harden played like absolute trash their first four losses, and they don't like playing defense at all. The past 10 games, Harden has averaged 13 FT's per... Not sure what's going on here, either the guy is getting hit intentionally or this guy is a damn good actor. No one should be getting that many FT's in a game for ten straight games. BTW, these guys didn't even listen to the coach according to reports. I have no idea what that is about but these players are the ones who need to step up.

Scoots
11-20-2015, 02:23 PM
Haha, stop blaming the coach. Your players were horrific to start with. McHale might be an average coach but he's also the scapegoat here. Let's look at the real reason why they aren't doing well.. Howard missed 4 games, Harden played like absolute trash their first four losses, and they don't like playing defense at all. The past 10 games, Harden has averaged 13 FT's per... Not sure what's going on here, either the guy is getting hit intentionally or this guy is a damn good actor. No one should be getting that many FT's in a game for ten straight games. BTW, these guys didn't even listen to the coach according to reports. I have no idea what that is about but these players are the ones who need to step up.

Reports out of OKC sound the same with their new coach.

rhino17
11-20-2015, 06:04 PM
The Warriors had suggestions for Mark Jackson on his coaches but let him choose his own assistants and one more year to prove his worth, the team made the playoffs and played better but they fired him because the GM/Owner saw he wasn't the guy to take them to the next level. It sounds like the Rockets had the plan to replace McHale in place, so they should have done it in the off season. There is nothing to gain by staying with a coach who the front office, players, and the public know isn't the guy for another month, and by most accounts his job was in trouble last season so he should have been quietly let go in July.

i think it is pretty comparable to the Mark Jackson situation where golden state wasn't gonna take the next step until they got a new coach. They didn't do it this offseason, but at least they did do it. I'm glad they did it now rather than wait til the end of the season. At least they can maybe salvage this year in some capacity.

Scoots
11-20-2015, 07:28 PM
i think it is pretty comparable to the Mark Jackson situation where golden state wasn't gonna take the next step until they got a new coach. They didn't do it this offseason, but at least they did do it. I'm glad they did it now rather than wait til the end of the season. At least they can maybe salvage this year in some capacity.

True, true. But it does show some organizations dysfunction, or at least indecisiveness. People were calling for his head, then he's extended, then he's fired. Not good.

FlashBolt
11-21-2015, 02:58 AM
Coaching isn't the problem. Great players excel with or without a coach and quite frankly, Harden isn't doing that.

slashsnake
11-21-2015, 04:20 AM
Coaching isn't the problem. Great players excel with or without a coach and quite frankly, Harden isn't doing that.

Didn't Harden take them to the Conference Finals last year?

What you said sounds nice on paper, but exactly how far did Michael Jordan make it in the half of his career he played without Phil Jackson as his coach?


I kinda get your point... few coaches are difference makers, and I don't think McHale is one.

But right now you have Harden who does it all on offense, then the 30% shooters (Ariza, Lawson, Brewer, Beverly, Thornton) and the limited high percentage guys (Howard and Jones).

Its fine if you have a bunch of crappy offensive players if they can play D, but nobody is on that team. They have what? Harden playing inefficient but well. Dwight, Capela, and Jones playing average basketball and everyone else below average? Also they are a 3 ball team that can't hit the side of a barn right now.

Harden's biggest struggle if you ask me is he is trying to do everything on offense, then not getting much help on the other side of the court either.

FlashBolt
11-21-2015, 01:09 PM
Didn't Harden take them to the Conference Finals last year?

What you said sounds nice on paper, but exactly how far did Michael Jordan make it in the half of his career he played without Phil Jackson as his coach?


I kinda get your point... few coaches are difference makers, and I don't think McHale is one.

But right now you have Harden who does it all on offense, then the 30% shooters (Ariza, Lawson, Brewer, Beverly, Thornton) and the limited high percentage guys (Howard and Jones).

Its fine if you have a bunch of crappy offensive players if they can play D, but nobody is on that team. They have what? Harden playing inefficient but well. Dwight, Capela, and Jones playing average basketball and everyone else below average? Also they are a 3 ball team that can't hit the side of a barn right now.

Harden's biggest struggle if you ask me is he is trying to do everything on offense, then not getting much help on the other side of the court either.

That besides the point. A coach has little to do with great players being great. You either are great or not. I don't attribute Duncan's greatness to Pop despite Pop being a huge influence in Duncan's career. Jordan was heading into stardom without Jackson. Guys like LeBron were great with crappy coaches his entire career. My point isn't how far they have gotten without a coach. Clearly you need a coach to take your TEAM far. But Harden is playing like trash and that's not a coaching problem. Reports are out that his teammates are frustrated about his attitude/lackluster play. You saw the same against Memphis. Harden has to step up and be a leader. I haven't seen him take that step forward. He's been hiding while his team gets berated. His teammates that provided great level of production last season simply haven't been producing. That hurts too but I'd reckon Curry would light it up against anybody regardless of said team. LeBron would too. KD would. Westbrook would try his heart out. Do you see Harden stepping up at all? I haven't.

AllBall
11-21-2015, 10:38 PM
Coaching isn't the problem. Great players excel with or without a coach and quite frankly, Harden isn't doing that.

Especially on a team who already knew what they needed to do to win. Look at the Warriors.

Scoots
11-22-2015, 03:02 PM
Great coaching isn't needed to make great players, but great coaches make it easier on great players to be great AND make teams around them rather than a bunch of individuals.

TrueFan420
11-22-2015, 10:23 PM
So matter what it's gonna be someone with some Houston ties, Brooks, JVG(PLEASE!), Thibs or Mark Jackson.

Harden would love Jackson. So coach what's the offense game plan. We're gonna ISO you on the left, then the right then wherever you'd like.