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PurpleJesus
10-31-2015, 03:24 AM
its about to become the same debate that KG vs Duncan was for the late 90's and early 00's.

Raps18-19 Champ
10-31-2015, 03:27 AM
Both guys will be good but I think Towns will be better by a noticeable margin so I don't expect a debate

It'll be like Lebron and Melo. Melo is good but Lebron is a clear better player.

Sadds The Gr8
10-31-2015, 03:38 AM
Towns more versatile so I like him more. Both have been impressive so far

Vincent
10-31-2015, 03:40 AM
It's been two games lol

KAT is definitely the focal point on a much better team. He's going to have a chance to develop with a good number of players on that Minnesota team (Rubio, LaVine, Wiggins, Dieng, Shabazz... all will probably still be on the team in the future).

Okafor probably has 1 other guy that will be on the roster in 3-4 years (Noel).

We'll see how Okafor develops with Noel, but I don't know how to evaluate him until he's actually playing meaningful games with a roster that gives them a chance to win games (rather than putting up empty stats in a 20 point loss).

mngopher35
10-31-2015, 03:40 AM
I just posted in the GT but I have been impressed by Towns. He seems to already have an impact on both ends which really wasn't expected right away. I only watched about half of Okafors first game but he was impressive himself from what I saw.

5ass
10-31-2015, 03:47 AM
Don't forget AD.

PurpleJesus
10-31-2015, 04:18 AM
It's been two games lol



k...

?

PurpleJesus
10-31-2015, 04:30 AM
Towns more versatile so I like him more. Both have been impressive so far

With that reasoning, do you take KG over Duncan?

Vincent
10-31-2015, 04:38 AM
k...

?

Just too early to tell that's all. Especially to compare to TD and KG (two of the greatest PF/Cs to play the game). These guys might not even be the best PF/Cs to play in their era (AD, Griffin). And if Porzingis can reach his potential he might be considered up there as well.

Sadds The Gr8
10-31-2015, 04:48 AM
With that reasoning, do you take KG over Duncan?

I've always been more of a KG than Duncan guy. He was my fave player in his prime.

dnl123
10-31-2015, 05:04 AM
Just too early to tell that's all. Especially to compare to TD and KG (two of the greatest PF/Cs to play the game). These guys might not even be the best PF/Cs to play in their era (AD, Griffin). And if Porzingis can reach his potential he might be considered up there as well.

He was comparing the debate. Even before these guys played a game we knew their careers would be compared with one another for their entire careers. Also no offense, but if you think Porzingis has a potential ceiling anywhere near Towns you're straight up delusional.

Vincent
10-31-2015, 05:30 AM
He was comparing the debate. Even before these guys played a game we knew their careers would be compared with one another for their entire careers. Also no offense, but if you think Porzingis has a potential ceiling anywhere near Towns you're straight up delusional.

I wouldn't say delusional. Porzingis is raw, but he does have quite a bit of potential in terms of his height, length, mobility, athleticism, shooting ability, etc.

As for the sake of argument, the Towns will have a better chance of being the better player between him and Okafor due to his situation and his build and skill set.

I have been quite impressed with Town's scoring ability. His shooting ability was well documented going into the draft, but it's his back downs and quick drives to the basketball off the dribble that makes him really look polished and NBA ready (which were the skills I wondered would translate into the next level). And so far in the 1st two games, he has stayed out of foul trouble (which many questioned going into the season).

Okafor is going to be able to bully opposing teams inside, and has a great front court mate in Noel to help alleviate concerns about his interior defense. But he also has the problem of not really having many weapons to pass out to when teams decide to double or overload the action on the side of his post up. He's a good passer, but still a rookie. He's going to have quite a bit of turnovers as he gets used to reading NBA defenses.

PurpleJesus
10-31-2015, 05:41 AM
He was comparing the debate. Even before these guys played a game we knew their careers would be compared with one another for their entire careers. Also no offense,

Correct. They represent one of the biggest questions in basketball right now. Dominant on one side, or good on both sides? Throw back, or new school?

JasonJohnHorn
10-31-2015, 08:57 AM
Well.... two games in, it looks like you are comparing Garnett (Towns) to Horace Grant (Okafor).


I think we'll have to wait and see on this one. Let a couple of seasons play out first.

Towns has come in playing like an All-NBA player in his first couple of games, and he's making Wiggins look like an All-Rookie Second team selection instead of the ROY.

But too small a sample size.

2-ONE-5
10-31-2015, 09:00 AM
Well.... two games in, it looks like you are comparing Garnett (Towns) to Horace Grant (Okafor).


I think we'll have to wait and see on this one. Let a couple of seasons play out first.

Towns has come in playing like an All-NBA player in his first couple of games, and he's making Wiggins look like an All-Rookie Second team selection instead of the ROY.

But too small a sample size.

um what?

KnicksorBust
10-31-2015, 09:18 AM
Both guys will be good but I think Towns will be better by a noticeable margin so I don't expect a debate

It'll be like Lebron and Melo. Melo is good but Lebron is a clear better player.

I actually kind of like this comparison. It is no secret in the Knicks forum I was obsessed with Towns when I thought the Knicks had a chance at him. I will admit I am jealous. Great time to be a Wolves fan. It is like KG-Steph part 2 only this time with a higher ceiling and I doubt either goes Starbury.

JEDean89
10-31-2015, 12:27 PM
watching mudiay in denver, philly ****ed up so bad that hinkie should be taken out. oka is a great player no doubt, but unless the 76ers snag jamal murray, they will go into next year without a pg still. rubio is doing wonders for Towns, but who is passing the ball to Oka and Noel? Who is spacing the floor and taking attention off the two bigs? Philly is giving Oka nothing to support his style of play, he should be in a SVG 4 out 1 in system, and how will that ever happen with Embiid and Noel? Does Hinkie think he'll ever get fair value for those 2? oka is a generational talent, but he has to be in the right system surrounded by the right players. towns is more of a throw him in any system and he'll thrive. I can't believe that philly is doing what they are doing, young guys need vets, which they don't have, and they need a team they can play off of. if they don't get a PG by next year, i could see Noel signing the qualifying and seeking UFA.

D-Leethal
10-31-2015, 12:36 PM
watching mudiay in denver, philly ****ed up so bad that hinkie should be taken out. oka is a great player no doubt, but unless the 76ers snag jamal murray, they will go into next year without a pg still. rubio is doing wonders for Towns, but who is passing the ball to Oka and Noel? Who is spacing the floor and taking attention off the two bigs? Philly is giving Oka nothing to support his style of play, he should be in a SVG 4 out 1 in system, and how will that ever happen with Embiid and Noel? Does Hinkie think he'll ever get fair value for those 2? oka is a generational talent, but he has to be in the right system surrounded by the right players. towns is more of a throw him in any system and he'll thrive. I can't believe that philly is doing what they are doing, young guys need vets, which they don't have, and they need a team they can play off of. if they don't get a PG by next year, i could see Noel signing the qualifying and seeking UFA.

How would they be able to tank again with legitimate NBA players surrounding Okafor?

Gander13SM
10-31-2015, 12:46 PM
A bit early to say this but still I hope you're right.

I'm not sold on Okafor yet. But I love what I'm seeing from Towns. I can see him and Davis having some wars a couple years from now. I really hope Timberwolves can retain Towns-Wiggins-Rubio. I really like that, get a player like Harrison Barnes at the 3, then a decent 4 and you're good to go.

Rubio - Wiggins - Barnes - ????? - Towns

West just keeps getting better.

SMH!
10-31-2015, 01:04 PM
didnt take long to turn into a philly hate thread.

KnicksorBust
10-31-2015, 02:34 PM
A bit early to say this but still I hope you're right.

I'm not sold on Okafor yet. But I love what I'm seeing from Towns. I can see him and Davis having some wars a couple years from now. I really hope Timberwolves can retain Towns-Wiggins-Rubio. I really like that, get a player like Harrison Barnes at the 3, then a decent 4 and you're good to go.

Rubio - Wiggins - Barnes - ????? - Towns

West just keeps getting better.

If they got Barnes they could win the title with that core 4.

SMH!
10-31-2015, 03:11 PM
watching mudiay in denver, philly ****ed up so bad that hinkie should be taken out. oka is a great player no doubt, but unless the 76ers snag jamal murray, they will go into next year without a pg still. rubio is doing wonders for Towns, but who is passing the ball to Oka and Noel? Who is spacing the floor and taking attention off the two bigs? Philly is giving Oka nothing to support his style of play, he should be in a SVG 4 out 1 in system, and how will that ever happen with Embiid and Noel? Does Hinkie think he'll ever get fair value for those 2? oka is a generational talent, but he has to be in the right system surrounded by the right players. towns is more of a throw him in any system and he'll thrive. I can't believe that philly is doing what they are doing, young guys need vets, which they don't have, and they need a team they can play off of. if they don't get a PG by next year, i could see Noel signing the qualifying and seeking UFA.

you think Phil Jackson should be fired as well for passing on Mudiay?

Teeboy1487
10-31-2015, 03:13 PM
Towns is better and it's not even close imo. He's the sure thing. Just wait until he gets his jumpshot going. Watch out. Minnesota is in excellent shape for years to come.

JEDean89
10-31-2015, 03:37 PM
you think Phil Jackson should be fired as well for passing on Mudiay?

well the knicks have calderon, galloway and drafted grant also. they also have vets like lopez, afflalo, melo, williams, oquinn, etc... so its not apples to apples. if porzingis busts (he looks pretty good), phil deserves criticism, but PF was the knicks biggest need, and he got it, PG was philly's biggest need and they passed on a franchise caliber one to take a C, when they already had two... Mudiay, Saric, Noel + a lotto pick or two would be a much brighter future for them.

JAZZNC
10-31-2015, 04:12 PM
didnt take long to turn into a philly hate thread.

It isn't hate. It is just pointing out the ridiculous actions of the front office the last few years. The FO has made you guys a complete joke and people like you for some reason defend it. If I was a fan of the Sixers I would be nearing the end of my fandom.

FlashBolt
10-31-2015, 04:21 PM
Picking Porzingis was a total joke... and picking Russell when your star player has twice his USG% is a completely dumbfounded move by the Lakers. Either you tank and develop that player or you don't tank at all. You can't expect any player to grow under the Lakers if they aren't given an opportunity. Can't believe they passed on Okafor. You could have easily traded him for a valuable piece at the minimum. At the end of the day, Towns is probably going to have the highest ceiling. Him, Wiggins, Lavine, and Rubio have a huge opportunity to become a great team. Hell, they should probably look into getting Embiid. Why not?

5ass
10-31-2015, 05:05 PM
Picking Porzingis was a total joke... and picking Russell when your star player has twice his USG% is a completely dumbfounded move by the Lakers. Either you tank and develop that player or you don't tank at all. You can't expect any player to grow under the Lakers if they aren't given an opportunity. Can't believe they passed on Okafor. You could have easily traded him for a valuable piece at the minimum. At the end of the day, Towns is probably going to have the highest ceiling. Him, Wiggins, Lavine, and Rubio have a huge opportunity to become a great team. Hell, they should probably look into getting Embiid. Why not?

I disagree. I think Porzingis is going to be just as good as KAT if not better. He's just a little raw, but give him 3-4 years after he gains experience, refines his skills, and puts on some weight. He will be a 7'3 stretch 4/5 who can play very good defense, post up and get to the FT line thanks to his quickness and length. He will be able to play with basically any big man. That flexibility is also very important if they plan to sign a big man FA. There are plenty of good PGs in the league. The Knicks need to sign a star FA PG, not use a top 5 pick on one. They need to take advantage of being in NY and sign star FAs.

Ty22Mitchell
10-31-2015, 05:23 PM
Jahlil had one really good game and one really average game. Can't we wait until Christmas before we start comparing him to future HOF-ers?

sidenote: After two months of "hating" on Townes, I suppose it's time I start eating some crow.

nycericanguy
10-31-2015, 05:24 PM
Picking Porzingis was a total joke... and picking Russell when your star player has twice his USG% is a completely dumbfounded move by the Lakers. Either you tank and develop that player or you don't tank at all. You can't expect any player to grow under the Lakers if they aren't given an opportunity. Can't believe they passed on Okafor. You could have easily traded him for a valuable piece at the minimum. At the end of the day, Towns is probably going to have the highest ceiling. Him, Wiggins, Lavine, and Rubio have a huge opportunity to become a great team. Hell, they should probably look into getting Embiid. Why not?

u know whats a joke? judging 19 and 20 year olds after 2 games...

KP looks like he's going to be a damn good player, and Phil also got Grant at PG who looks like a stud.

FlashBolt
10-31-2015, 05:42 PM
Okay, how many games would you require to realize that Porzingis is a joke? And you just contradicted yourself! "KP looks like he's going to be a damn good player." Based off what exactly? Tell me how many games because I'm going to bookmark this page and then come back to you after that amount of games and you'll realize it then.

IBleedPurple
10-31-2015, 05:42 PM
I don't think we have anymore knowledge right now than when this was debated before/after the draft.

FlashBolt
10-31-2015, 05:45 PM
I disagree. I think Porzingis is going to be just as good as KAT if not better. He's just a little raw, but give him 3-4 years after he gains experience, refines his skills, and puts on some weight. He will be a 7'3 stretch 4/5 who can play very good defense, post up and get to the FT line thanks to his quickness and length. He will be able to play with basically any big man. That flexibility is also very important if they plan to sign a big man FA. There are plenty of good PGs in the league. The Knicks need to sign a star FA PG, not use a top 5 pick on one. They need to take advantage of being in NY and sign star FAs.

If you need 3-4 years to improve, then something is wrong. Knicks shouldn't have drafted a player who needs 3-4 years to improve seeing as how they have Melo now. That's another reason why Porzingis was a joke for the Knicks. Will he be better in 3-4 years? Who the hell knows? I mean, will Wiggins be a top ten player in 3-4 years? Will Embiid even play in 3-4 years? Just as good as KAT? Yeah.... OKAY. Knicks should have drafted someone more NBA ready considering Melo is getting paid big bucks for no reason since Porzingis needs 3-4 years to develop.

Crackadalic
10-31-2015, 05:54 PM
Okay, how many games would you require to realize that Porzingis is a joke? And you just contradicted yourself! "KP looks like he's going to be a damn good player." Based off what exactly? Tell me how many games because I'm going to bookmark this page and then come back to you after that amount of games and you'll realize it then.

How is he a joke tho. Your not giving any reason. He's be filling up the stat sheet and thats with Melo high usage on the team

5ass
10-31-2015, 05:55 PM
If you need 3-4 years to improve, then something is wrong. Knicks shouldn't have drafted a player who needs 3-4 years to improve seeing as how they have Melo now. That's another reason why Porzingis was a joke for the Knicks. Will he be better in 3-4 years? Who the hell knows? I mean, will Wiggins be a top ten player in 3-4 years? Will Embiid even play in 3-4 years? Just as good as KAT? Yeah.... OKAY. Knicks should have drafted someone more NBA ready considering Melo is getting paid big bucks for no reason since Porzingis needs 3-4 years to develop.

And which rookie is going to come in and help them win games? Mudiay and his inefficient shooting and high turnovers? He's averaging more turnovers than assists. Yes, I like his tools, but he's also going to need 3-4 years to be great also. Porzingis isn't good right now, but you never know what happens next season. People said Giannis was two years away from being two years away, yet he's producing at 20 yrs old.

Crackadalic
10-31-2015, 05:58 PM
If you want to go by these small *** sample size in 25 minutes of play KP is putting up 13 points 6.5 boards 1 block and 1 steal

Okafor is 37 minutes is putting up 18 points 6.5 boards 1 block and 1 steal

KAT is just beasting with his numbers so i don't need to compare really. He is the best of the bunch no question

da ThRONe
10-31-2015, 06:03 PM
I disagree. I think Porzingis is going to be just as good as KAT if not better. He's just a little raw, but give him 3-4 years after he gains experience, refines his skills, and puts on some weight. He will be a 7'3 stretch 4/5 who can play very good defense, post up and get to the FT line thanks to his quickness and length. He will be able to play with basically any big man. That flexibility is also very important if they plan to sign a big man FA. There are plenty of good PGs in the league. The Knicks need to sign a star FA PG, not use a top 5 pick on one. They need to take advantage of being in NY and sign star FAs.

This the Knicks messed up giving Melo a deal especially one with a no trade clause. They should have traded him last year instead of picking up FA(although they were solid signings) to compete for a playoff spot the next few years. Prozingers was a quality pick given his overall upside.

FlashBolt
10-31-2015, 06:08 PM
How the hell is Kristaps filling up the stat sheet? The guy is shooting 33% from the field. Granted, it'll probably improve but besides that, what is he filling? He'd better grab some rebounds considering he's what? 7'3? My argument is that for the Knicks to sign Melo into a rather lucrative contract all so they can spend another three seasons for Kristaps to "develop" is a total waste of effort. Many NY's wanted Stein or Mudiay. I think Stein would have made more sense since Grant is a total stud. But Stein is more NBA ready, has a lot of experience, can actually play defense, and he doesn't harm the team in any way. Porzingis needs to score because he can't do anything else. It was a joke pick for the NYK, never said Porzingis wouldn't be a good pick for another team.

Crackadalic
10-31-2015, 07:12 PM
How the hell is Kristaps filling up the stat sheet? The guy is shooting 33% from the field. Granted, it'll probably improve but besides that, what is he filling? He'd better grab some rebounds considering he's what? 7'3? My argument is that for the Knicks to sign Melo into a rather lucrative contract all so they can spend another three seasons for Kristaps to "develop" is a total waste of effort. Many NY's wanted Stein or Mudiay. I think Stein would have made more sense since Grant is a total stud. But Stein is more NBA ready, has a lot of experience, can actually play defense, and he doesn't harm the team in any way. Porzingis needs to score because he can't do anything else. It was a joke pick for the NYK, never said Porzingis wouldn't be a good pick for another team.

He is shooting a poor % but he is getting to the line a lot. I've seen a few times he got double even tripe team because of his size. Don't give me that he's 7'3 so he need to get more boards non sense. He is at the perimeter a lot a la dirk who he himself is a 7 footer and doesn't get crazy boards until his prime.

You can't tell me the kid doesn't have all star potential and i usual hold off calling any knick draft pick a star or even a legit borderline star.

You can't say he doesn't do nothing else when he is getting steals and blocks at a decent rate. That doesn't sound like someone who can just score. Your whole argument doesn't make any sense at all. Why waste a pick on a player who is nothing more then a starter as a ceiling. We already have lopez as our center. We needed a guy who can be a star soon. Not a ok starter

I see KP as a jack of all trades star. Kinda like AK47 at his prime that he isn't amazing at a lot of things but is good at a lot.

FlashBolt
10-31-2015, 07:28 PM
He is shooting a poor % but he is getting to the line a lot. I've seen a few times he got double even tripe team because of his size. Don't give me that he's 7'3 so he need to get more boards non sense. He is at the perimeter a lot a la dirk who he himself is a 7 footer and doesn't get crazy boards until his prime.

You can't tell me the kid doesn't have all star potential and i usual hold off calling any knick draft pick a star or even a legit borderline star.

You can't say he doesn't do nothing else when he is getting steals and blocks at a decent rate. That doesn't sound like someone who can just score. Your whole argument doesn't make any sense at all. Why waste a pick on a player who is nothing more then a starter as a ceiling. We already have lopez as our center. We needed a guy who can be a star soon. Not a ok starter

I see KP as a jack of all trades star. Kinda like AK47 at his prime that he isn't amazing at a lot of things but is good at a lot.

You're the first NYKer to like the guy... sorry but it was a terrible pick for NYK.

Gander13SM
10-31-2015, 07:59 PM
If you need 3-4 years to improve, then something is wrong.

LOL... what?! Are you new to the nba? Very few rookies come into the league and make an impact. No rookie comes into the league at their peak. Of course they take a couple years to improve. Big men can take 4 or 5 years to get to the level they were expected to be at.

Gander13SM
10-31-2015, 08:27 PM
If they got Barnes they could win the title with that core 4.

Lol. Not sure about that but they would at least have the talent to make the playoffs in the West. Barnes and Ryan Anderson are both free agents after this season.

Rubio - Wiggins - Barnes - Anderson - Towns

I like the spacing with something along those lines.

Sullinger is also a F.A

Rubio - Wiggins - Barnes - Sullinger - Towns.

As is Batum.

Rubio - Wiggins - Batum - Barnes - Towns.


None of this will ever happen but it's fun to imagine lol. Regardless. I really like this Rubio-Wiggins-Towns trio.

nycericanguy
10-31-2015, 08:28 PM
You're the first NYKer to like the guy... sorry but it was a terrible pick for NYK.

well you obviously have made up your mind about the guy or have some agenda...

He's looked good for a 19 year old so far and NY fans have really taken to him.

Crackadalic
10-31-2015, 08:32 PM
You're the first NYKer to like the guy... sorry but it was a terrible pick for NYK.

If he is a bad pick because of us resigning Melo then state that. Your not explaining well why it's a joke of a pick. I wanted Mudiay but days before the draft I warmed up with getting KP.

xxplayerxx23
10-31-2015, 10:16 PM
Porzingis has looked great for a guy that's "raw and weak" his shooting % will improve he shot well tonight. He's got the highest ceiling lol at a joke hilarious

More-Than-Most
10-31-2015, 11:03 PM
I didnt want oka because of his lack of defense... Preseason plus the start of this season he has shown he has worked hard on that defense and his offense is cant miss but has no help around him at all and was already double teamed in both games even with Noel out there.... Towns wont have that happen to him and will have a better chance to progress because of it.... I wanted Russ and still think he will be the best player from this draft but man russ even if it is 2 games is making me a non believer because of his defense... Russ might be the worst defensive player I have ever seen and it makes me think Oka/Towns will end up 2 of the best 3 from this draft with Por there as well

More-Than-Most
10-31-2015, 11:07 PM
Porzingis has looked great for a guy that's "raw and weak" his shooting % will improve he shot well tonight. He's got the highest ceiling lol at a joke hilarious

The dude has a Kobe Bryant work ethic... There is 0 chance he fails and his ceiling might be the highest of all players.

nyltd
11-01-2015, 01:07 AM
LOL... what?! Are you new to the nba? Very few rookies come into the league and make an impact. No rookie comes into the league at their peak. Of course they take a couple years to improve. Big men can take 4 or 5 years to get to the level they were expected to be at.

OJ mayo's rookie season was his peak

FlashBolt
11-01-2015, 02:09 AM
If he is a bad pick because of us resigning Melo then state that. Your not explaining well why it's a joke of a pick. I wanted Mudiay but days before the draft I warmed up with getting KP.

I did say that.. I said Porzingis was a bad pick for the NYK and then said because they don't have three years to develop players. It's also a given since I also said Russell was a bad pick for the Lakers right after.

2-ONE-5
11-01-2015, 08:56 AM
If you want to go by these small *** sample size in 25 minutes of play KP is putting up 13 points 6.5 boards 1 block and 1 steal

Okafor is 37 minutes is putting up 18 points 6.5 boards 1 block and 1 steal

KAT is just beasting with his numbers so i don't need to compare really. He is the best of the bunch no question

well put Towns up against Gobert/Favors and see how that works out. The list of big men in the league that can contain Okafor is very short and the JAzz bigs are on the top of the list of those who can

nycericanguy
11-01-2015, 09:25 AM
Towns, Okafor, Russell, Mudiay will all get a lot more playing time than KP. Because their bodies are more NBA ready, and 2 because their teams aren't really looking to make the playoffs. The knicks def consider themselves a playoff team so KP won't be allowed to make as many mistakes. But long term he can be just as good as any of them if not the best.

Gander13SM
11-01-2015, 09:35 AM
well put Towns up against Gobert/Favors and see how that works out. The list of big men in the league that can contain Okafor is very short and the JAzz bigs are on the top of the list of those who can

Favors isn't that great a defender, I mean he's not bad but you're making him out to be a DPOY candidate or something.

It's still early but my money is on KAT being better. Okafor just hasn't done anything that's impressed me yet. But that's just me personally. I like Noel more than Okafor.

ewing
11-01-2015, 10:20 AM
I did say that.. I said Porzingis was a bad pick for the NYK and then said because they don't have three years to develop players. It's also a given since I also said Russell was a bad pick for the Lakers right after.

are the NY Knicks going to stop being a franchise in the next two years?

JasonJohnHorn
11-01-2015, 10:36 AM
um what?
You're right... I should have said Harvey Grant.


First off... I hate this "two rookies are like Duncan/Garnett" $#!T. their rookies. They haven't proven anything.


But if you are going to look at two guys after 2 games and start comparing them, then Towns is clearly head and shoulders above Okafor.


Not only is his team 2-0 vs. Oak's 0-2, but he's getting 23 points to Oak's 23 and 14 rebouds to Oak's 6. 58% from the floor to 50%? 2 blocks per game to 1?

Is that even a conversation worth having?


I say let the season play out and wait until at least the AS break before we start having conversations like this. At that time, teams will have played them multiple times and had time to scout their game.


Until then, it doesn't seem like there is a point in this.

Can't we even wait until a couple of guys have half a season under their belt before we start comparing them to the two best power forwards to ever play the game?

nycericanguy
11-01-2015, 10:43 AM
I did say that.. I said Porzingis was a bad pick for the NYK and then said because they don't have three years to develop players. It's also a given since I also said Russell was a bad pick for the Lakers right after.

1st, KP won't necessarily take 3 years, maybe to reach his prime... but what player DOESNT take 3 years to reach their prime?

KP has already been a plus player on the court, and I'm sure he can do that and get better as the season goes on and contribute.

2nd, who was so incredibly NBA ready at #4 that they should have taken? Mudiay? I mean he's putting up decent numbers in DEN because they gave him full control and are letting him make a ton of mistakes... but Grant has been damn solid and you can say he's more NBA ready than Mudiay.

Grant + KP was a great combination for NY in the draft. Grant being the NBA ready PG that will likely start soon enough and already looks like he belongs, and KP the star potential guy that they can work in more slowly that can still contribute along the way.

Either way, your thinking is extremely short-sighted.

2-ONE-5
11-01-2015, 12:05 PM
Favors isn't that great a defender, I mean he's not bad but you're making him out to be a DPOY candidate or something.

It's still early but my money is on KAT being better. Okafor just hasn't done anything that's impressed me yet. But that's just me personally. I like Noel more than Okafor.

im not sure where you go the impression i made Favors sound like a DPOY. I said he and Gobert are possibly the best defensive big man duo in the league

Gander13SM
11-01-2015, 12:17 PM
im not sure where you go the impression i made Favors sound like a DPOY. I said he and Gobert are possibly the best defensive big man duo in the league

And that's not even close to being true. Favors is good defensively. Not great. And not good enough to be considered part of the best defensive duo.

2-ONE-5
11-01-2015, 12:35 PM
sure they are.

Gander13SM
11-01-2015, 12:50 PM
sure they are.

Bogut and Dray.
Horford and Millsap.
Gasol and Z-Bo.

Come on...

lonestarsummit
11-01-2015, 02:02 PM
Towns is looking way more polished than I would expect a rookie to look. I figured Jah and his opportunity in the Philly offense would make him the favorite but this will be a close race.

DillyDill
11-01-2015, 05:41 PM
What's even scarier about KP is he might not even be done growing. What if he ends up 7'5 my goodness!!

Da Knicks
11-01-2015, 06:09 PM
You're the first NYKer to like the guy... sorry but it was a terrible pick for NYK.

Not true, many people like him. If you watch a full game you can clearly see this guy is a player. His length alone bothers the opposing team, having a smooth j is just the cherry on top. Will he be an all star we can't say yes but a terrible pick? No

Hawkeye15
11-01-2015, 07:24 PM
I mean, I thought Towns had the best chance of being the top player from this draft class, and so far he looks more advanced than I thought he might. But we also played the Lakers and Nuggets, albeit on the road, but neither team has any defense in the slightest.

Probably need to wait 2-3 years to answer this. 19 year old big men sometimes take a bit longer.

ewing
11-02-2015, 11:12 AM
Bogut and Dray.
Horford and Millsap.
Gasol and Z-Bo.

Come on...

I'll take Favor and Gobert

2-ONE-5
11-02-2015, 11:17 AM
Bogut and Dray.
Horford and Millsap.
Gasol and Z-Bo.

Come on...

i never called them the best duo i simply said they have argument, which they do. Watching Gobert live for the first time Friday had me really impressed. Okafor did get the better of him 2-3 times where he just didnt finish but he made him work all night long and gobert was terrific at using his length to deny entry into the post.

PhillySportFan
11-02-2015, 12:03 PM
We generalize things too often, Gobert was a difficult matchup for Okafor because he is longer and more athletic. I think Jah still needs to figure out how to play against those types of guys, whereas guys like Millsap, Horford, Z-Bo are guys he could deal with better because they defend with their body more so.

FlashBolt
11-02-2015, 02:45 PM
Not true, many people like him. If you watch a full game you can clearly see this guy is a player. His length alone bothers the opposing team, having a smooth j is just the cherry on top. Will he be an all star we can't say yes but a terrible pick? No

I live in NY... trust me, 90% of the fans hated it, the other 10% were borderline just NYK fans because they live in NY so they had no idea who he was anyways.

5ass
11-02-2015, 03:15 PM
I live in NY... trust me, 90% of the fans hated it, the other 10% were borderline just NYK fans because they live in NY so they had no idea who he was anyways.

They hated it at the time because they were ignorant as to who Porzingis is. Because of that their thinking was "typical soft euro bust". Since then a lot of fans have warmed up to him. Ask Magic fans, Denver fans, Pistons fans, etc. Who tried their best to do some research on the guy at the time of the draft before drawing any conclusions and most liked him a lot. I know most Magic fans wanted Porzingis, and I'm still super jealous that the Knicks got him. He would've been a perfect fit next to Vucevic.

mngopher35
11-02-2015, 03:25 PM
They hated it at the time because they were ignorant as to who Porzingis is. Because of that their thinking was "typical soft euro bust". Since then a lot of fans have warmed up to him. Ask Magic fans, Denver fans, Pistons fans, etc. Who tried their best to do some research on the guy at the time of the draft before drawing any conclusions and most liked him a lot. I know most Magic fans wanted Porzingis, and I'm still super jealous that the Knicks got him. He would've been a perfect fit next to Vucevic.

Ya I think most people who actually looked into him around or before draft time thought he was the pick after Towns/Oka/Russell were gone. After seeing him play a bit in the summer league and a game and half of RS I think he looks pretty talented and could have good impact at both ends (probably not elite, but still too early to guage).

Hawkeye15
11-02-2015, 04:38 PM
Porzinigis to me looks like he will be a pretty good player. He kinda just does everything, and is very smart. Once he really gets stronger and gets a better feel of the NBA game, he could easily be an all star level player. 20-8-4-2-2 type who is a good defender and can penetrate.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
11-02-2015, 04:43 PM
Both guys will be good but I think Towns will be better by a noticeable margin so I don't expect a debate

It'll be like Lebron and Melo. Melo is good but Lebron is a clear better player.

Kinda like Howard/Okafor. Howard ran away with it.

PhillyFaninLA
11-03-2015, 07:51 AM
didnt take long to turn into a philly hate thread.

Its what happens when people are not capable of their own analysis or even original thought.

JEDean89
11-03-2015, 05:49 PM
I live in NY... trust me, 90% of the fans hated it, the other 10% were borderline just NYK fans because they live in NY so they had no idea who he was anyways.

you keep digging yourself in hole. kp is legit, and offers everything that oka and towns do. his PER is currently 17, he's shown freakish athleticism, and the ability to hit shots. calling him a joke shows a very low bball iq.

PhillyFaninLA
11-03-2015, 06:40 PM
you keep digging yourself in hole. kp is legit, and offers everything that oka and towns do. his PER is currently 17, he's shown freakish athleticism, and the ability to hit shots. calling him a joke shows a very low bball iq.

First he doesn't have what Okafer and Towns do....they have mass.....and all three players are different types of players.

KP is got a very thin body....my concern with him is that he ultimately won't have the ability to not be bounced around a bit leading to ticky tacky discomfort (not talking injury), he needs about 40 pounds of muscle or he may not ever realize his true potential.

No doubt he is skilled and has a work ethic to be admired, but when I look at him I see a body much like Shawn Bradley's and I see remarkably thin legs, and for a PF/C in the NBA that concerns me a bit.

You being a fan of his and saying that all 3 guys can do the same things (not directly but implying that) shows you may not truly understand the game of any of them.

KP can have a bright future, but he can't play a big man's game with a body that thin. I'm not talking stomach, I'm talking primarily legs, his arms don't look as bad.

tredigs
11-03-2015, 07:03 PM
First he doesn't have what Okafer and Towns do....they have mass.....and all three players are different types of players.

KP is got a very thin body....my concern with him is that he ultimately won't have the ability to not be bounced around a bit leading to ticky tacky discomfort (not talking injury), he needs about 40 pounds of muscle or he may not ever realize his true potential.

No doubt he is skilled and has a work ethic to be admired, but when I look at him I see a body much like Shawn Bradley's and I see remarkably thin legs, and for a PF/C in the NBA that concerns me a bit.

You being a fan of his and saying that all 3 guys can do the same things (not directly but implying that) shows you may not truly understand the game of any of them.

KP can have a bright future, but he can't play a big man's game with a body that thin. I'm not talking stomach, I'm talking primarily legs, his arms don't look as bad.

His legs are fine, and he's still a young/growing man. The kid just turned 20, he'll get stronger, and he's already clearly thicker/stronger than Bradley. You're not giving him enough credit: http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/27/files/2015/11/tim-duncan-kristaps-porzingis-nba-san-antonio-spurs-new-york-knicks-590x900.jpg

After watching that 1st half of him versus the Spurs, I'm sold on him. He's going to be a very good player. Townes as well. Okafor I'm not as sold on yet. He'll be a strong scorer, but I'm not sure what else he will bring. I'm generally pretty low on bigs who don't defend.

PhillyFaninLA
11-03-2015, 07:16 PM
His legs are fine, and he's still a young/growing man. The kid just turned 20, he'll get stronger, and he's already clearly thicker/stronger than Bradley. You're not giving him enough credit: http://cdn.fansided.com/wp-content/blogs.dir/27/files/2015/11/tim-duncan-kristaps-porzingis-nba-san-antonio-spurs-new-york-knicks-590x900.jpg

After watching that 1st half of him versus the Spurs, I'm sold on him. He's going to be a very good player. Townes as well. Okafor I'm not as sold on yet. He'll be a strong scorer, but I'm not sure what else he will bring. I'm generally pretty low on bigs who don't defend.

Read what you quoted.....I specifically said he is skilled and has a work ethic to be admired and I said he can have a bright future. These are the exact words I used in what you quoted and yes I am concerned about his legs thickness and I did point out that he needs to add mass and he's not clearly thicker than Bradley, he is stronger though.

I'm giving him plenty of credit, not sure how that is not giving him a ton of credit.....did you not read what you quoted and only pay attention to what you wanted to comment on?

JEDean89
11-03-2015, 07:36 PM
First he doesn't have what Okafer and Towns do....they have mass.....and all three players are different types of players.

KP is got a very thin body....my concern with him is that he ultimately won't have the ability to not be bounced around a bit leading to ticky tacky discomfort (not talking injury), he needs about 40 pounds of muscle or he may not ever realize his true potential.

No doubt he is skilled and has a work ethic to be admired, but when I look at him I see a body much like Shawn Bradley's and I see remarkably thin legs, and for a PF/C in the NBA that concerns me a bit.

You being a fan of his and saying that all 3 guys can do the same things (not directly but implying that) shows you may not truly understand the game of any of them.

KP can have a bright future, but he can't play a big man's game with a body that thin. I'm not talking stomach, I'm talking primarily legs, his arms don't look as bad.

dude you are just spitting air at this point. he's 240 lbs, and you must have a really short memory. Anthony Davis was 220, Pau was 230, KG was 230, Tyson was 235... what on earth makes you think that he can't put on weight from being 20? He's averaging like 9 rebounds in 25 minutes, what more do you want? He's getting a lot of steals and blocks, he's scoring in a variety of ways and is playing team ball. towns looks great and i think it will be a battle of the two this year for ROY with Mudiay also.

tredigs
11-03-2015, 07:37 PM
Read what you quoted.....I specifically said he is skilled and has a work ethic to be admired and I said he can have a bright future. These are the exact words I used in what you quoted and yes I am concerned about his legs thickness and I did point out that he needs to add mass and he's not clearly thicker than Bradley, he is stronger though.

I'm giving him plenty of credit, not sure how that is not giving him a ton of credit.....did you not read what you quoted and only pay attention to what you wanted to comment on?

Calm down. I read your comment, and determined that you are not giving him enough credit. Needs to add 40 lbs of muscle? No, that's ridiculous. If he adds 15-18 lbs of muscle with the level of athleticism he has, he'll be plenty big enough to dominate. This is Shawn Bradley, for comparison: http://www.sikids.com/sites/default/files/multimedia/photo_gallery/0706/nba.draft.busts/images/gallery9.jpg. Porz is already bigger than that, and is younger than Bradley as a rookie. And you don't need tank legs to dominate, especially as a stretch. KG (and a hundred others) made a pretty decent career out of theirs.

PhillyFaninLA
11-03-2015, 09:59 PM
dude you are just spitting air at this point. he's 240 lbs, and you must have a really short memory. Anthony Davis was 220, Pau was 230, KG was 230, Tyson was 235... what on earth makes you think that he can't put on weight from being 20? He's averaging like 9 rebounds in 25 minutes, what more do you want? He's getting a lot of steals and blocks, he's scoring in a variety of ways and is playing team ball. towns looks great and i think it will be a battle of the two this year for ROY with Mudiay also.


Show me exactly where I said he can't, I said he needs to.

Do you know how to read? Seriously without adjusting my words show me where I said he can't.....oh, its not there.

DillyDill
11-03-2015, 11:12 PM
We gotta add Prog to this he's gonna be a star. 3 headed monster KAT/Oak/Prog

FlashBolt
11-04-2015, 03:12 AM
you keep digging yourself in hole. kp is legit, and offers everything that oka and towns do. his PER is currently 17, he's shown freakish athleticism, and the ability to hit shots. calling him a joke shows a very low bball iq.

He's a joke of a pick for the NYK. Please learn to distinguish that. And what part of what I said was false? Offers everything Oka/Towns do? LOL, that's ridiculous. Stop defending the guy, he doesn't do what Oka/Towns can do.

Jeffy25
11-04-2015, 07:48 AM
I think Towns will be the better player.

And I would rather have him on my roster too


I like the two way play and rebounding. Towns will be AD I think.

Okafor is a beast, no doubt. But like the poster earlier said. Melo and Bron. Melo is a good player, but he isn't Bron.

Jeffy25
11-04-2015, 07:50 AM
you keep digging yourself in hole. kp is legit, and offers everything that oka and towns do. his PER is currently 17, he's shown freakish athleticism, and the ability to hit shots. calling him a joke shows a very low bball iq.

If we are going to talk about KP, then we need to talk about Cauldey-Stein too

2-ONE-5
11-04-2015, 09:55 AM
I think Towns will be the better player.

And I would rather have him on my roster too


I like the two way play and rebounding. Towns will be AD I think.

Okafor is a beast, no doubt. But like the poster earlier said. Melo and Bron. Melo is a good player, but he isn't Bron.

maybe but the gap between Okafor and Towns wont be as large as Melo and James.

ewing
11-04-2015, 12:27 PM
If we are going to talk about KP, then we need to talk about Cauldey-Stein too


I disagree, I think it pretty oblivious what Stein is going to be. If you draft Stein you want Tyson Chandler. I like him but he isn't much of a mystery. Their are a lot more question marks regarding how the other guys will translate and i think all 3 lead their fans to believe that they can be more then Tyson Chandler. In other news, Flashbolt is obviously a troll

Oefarmy2005
11-04-2015, 05:10 PM
Porzinigis to me looks like he will be a pretty good player. He kinda just does everything, and is very smart. Once he really gets stronger and gets a better feel of the NBA game, he could easily be an all star level player. 20-8-4-2-2 type who is a good defender and can penetrate.

Reminds me of AK47 a bit, during his good years, albeit with a better shot, so this guy will probably be an Allstar at some point. As far as KAT vs OKA, they are both one misstep away from being done for the season(like Jabari was last year), so I wouldn't base anything until 3 years in, minimum. I liked OKA more, but the Wolves picked KAT so I'm stuck cheering for him.

Vincent
11-04-2015, 05:22 PM
Kinda like Howard/Okafor. Howard ran away with it.

This is actually a really great comparison.

Howard was the athletic freak, and Okafor was the proven post scorer that dominated the college game.

Hopefully injuries won't pop in and out of Jahlil Okafor's career like Emeka Okafor. But I remember the debate early on in their careers that were pretty similar to the discussions we're having now.

Hawkeye15
11-04-2015, 08:45 PM
Reminds me of AK47 a bit, during his good years, albeit with a better shot, so this guy will probably be an Allstar at some point. As far as KAT vs OKA, they are both one misstep away from being done for the season(like Jabari was last year), so I wouldn't base anything until 3 years in, minimum. I liked OKA more, but the Wolves picked KAT so I'm stuck cheering for him.

yeah he is a better ball handling/shooting AK. And that is scary.

well, if you haven't seen in just 3 games that KAT has superstar potential, not sure what you are seeing. I am as reserved as they come about our puppies, but KAT has everyone drooling, for good reason. I am confident in saying he will not only be the best player from this draft, but one of the top 5 players in the game in a few years.

ewing
11-04-2015, 09:16 PM
yeah he is a better ball handling/shooting AK. And that is scary.

well, if you haven't seen in just 3 games that KAT has superstar potential, not sure what you are seeing. I am as reserved as they come about our puppies, but KAT has everyone drooling, for good reason. I am confident in saying he will not only be the best player from this draft, but one of the top 5 players in the game in a few years.

AK47 was an excellent ball handler and an elite passer. I'm starting to like the AK comparison but 7'3 is where KP has him that and a lot more touch. Seriously, this kids motor is sick at times. Skill have no idea how good he will be but he is skilled and active as hell

Hawkeye15
11-05-2015, 12:48 PM
AK47 was an excellent ball handler and an elite passer. I'm starting to like the AK comparison but 7'3 is where KP has him that and a lot more touch. Seriously, this kids motor is sick at times. Skill have no idea how good he will be but he is skilled and active as hell

AK was a pretty good ball handler, nothing special. The one thing he was so ridic at was moving without the ball.

Yeah, KP has a much better shot, and I think he is actually going to be a better player. I love his upside. Hell I already think he is a good player.

Waaaaaaay too early to say, but I am loving that the Lakers took Russell, who in my opinion, will be the far lesser player between Towns, Okafor, and KP.

ewing
11-05-2015, 12:53 PM
AK was a pretty good ball handler, nothing special. The one thing he was so ridic at was moving without the ball.

Yeah, KP has a much better shot, and I think he is actually going to be a better player. I love his upside. Hell I already think he is a good player.

Waaaaaaay too early to say, but I am loving that the Lakers took Russell, who in my opinion, will be the far lesser player between Towns, Okafor, and KP.


DWill took a lot away from AK47. He used to love leading that break

Hawkeye15
11-05-2015, 01:24 PM
DWill took a lot away from AK47. He used to love leading that break

is Dwill worth a ****?

ewing
11-05-2015, 02:32 PM
is Dwill worth a ****?


He's better then CP3. You didn't hear :)

Hawkeye15
11-05-2015, 02:40 PM
He's better then CP3. You didn't hear :)

I thought you were talking about Derrick Williams haha

DWill was never on CP3's level. Never understood the argument.

flea
11-05-2015, 02:52 PM
I thought you were talking about Derrick Williams haha

DWill was never on CP3's level. Never understood the argument.

I don't know, I'd have said they were pretty close offensively very early in their careers (never defensively). D-Will was a great P&R guard, he just got fat and lazy. It was a real argument 07-08.

flea
11-05-2015, 03:18 PM
RE: thread, jury still way out. Both have impressed early. Okafor will be a top 5 scorer soon, and it's not out of the realm of possiblity that KAT barges his way into that conversation in addition to his all-around game.

shep33
11-05-2015, 03:40 PM
Not sold on Oak yet, i think Towns will be a top 10 player in the NBA.

Iversonfan4life
11-05-2015, 03:45 PM
Not sold on Oak yet, i think Towns will be a top 10 player in the NBA.

Just out of curiosity what has Okafor not sold you on yet? Other than his rebounding which can easily improve.

2-ONE-5
11-06-2015, 10:07 AM
Just out of curiosity what has Okafor not sold you on yet? Other than his rebounding which can easily improve.

his rebounding isnt even a problem but those who stat watch will think so. He is doing a great job at boxing out his man to clear space for the rest of the team thats why see you guys like McConell and Canaan grabbing 7 boards in a game.

I really would expect a Laker fan to say hes not sold since it has to sting so so bad they passed on him. There is no other reason to say something like that at the moment when Okafor has been the better player.

bootsy
11-06-2015, 12:16 PM
Not sold on Oak yet, i think Towns will be a top 10 player in the NBA.

:rolleyes: Please.

tredigs
11-06-2015, 01:23 PM
Just out of curiosity what has Okafor not sold you on yet? Other than his rebounding which can easily improve.

Anything but scoring for me. I've seen him score, which we knew he can do. And that's valuable to be sure, but he doesn't seem concerned with playmaking or defense. Unfortunate signs for a big that has such lofty expectations.

Townes is showing that he has the potential to be a GREAT defender, and a very capable scorer. From a big, that's the player you want every time.

Also, a very real side effect of Hinkie's plan in Philly is a clear oversight (IMO) of a lack of leadership for these young guys. Townes has Garnett. That's invaluable. Who does Okafor have?

Yanks All Day
11-06-2015, 01:35 PM
The biggest surprise for Jahlil Okafor this season has been his proficiency from the free throw line. He was horrid at Duke. So much so that he was almost a late-game liability. He's taking 4 foul shots per game and averages 81.3% so far. If he was even at 70%, it would be pretty standard for a big man.

Through 4 games, he leads all centers in scoring per game, tied with Andre Drummond at 20.3 ppg. Anthony Davis and Blake Griffin are the only PF that score more than he does, with 20.8 and 28.2 ppg, respectively. He's played the least amount of minutes, taking by far the fewest shots, and has the 2nd highest fg% of the group. It's an impressive start, but it's only been 4 games.

Everyone knew Okafor was NBA ready offensively. Towns is more ready defensively and rebounds a little better. I think Okafor's build gives him a little higher of a ceiling, though. He's got the frame to grow even further into a dominant NBA big man. He'll be scoring 28 ppg in no time, especially with how polished he already is around the rim. Personally, I'd favor Okafor over Towns, but I think both Philly and Minny are pretty happy with their choices.

Iversonfan4life
11-06-2015, 01:48 PM
Anything but scoring for me. I've seen him score, which we knew he can do. And that's valuable to be sure, but he doesn't seem concerned with playmaking or defense. Unfortunate signs for a big that has such lofty expectations.

Townes is showing that he has the potential to be a GREAT defender, and a very capable scorer. From a big, that's the player you want every time.

Also, a very real side effect of Hinkie's plan in Philly is a clear oversight (IMO) of a lack of leadership for these young guys. Townes has Garnett. That's invaluable. Who does Okafor have?

Towns has more upside no doubt. Doesn't mean he is going to be the better player. Oaks defense has been better than advertised too, hes been a solid post defender this season and has had a few nice blocks including one where he denied giannis at the rim.

hes averaging 20 and 6 as a rookie and is one of the most efficient iso players in the game already. lack of leadership on the team is none issue.

Iversonfan4life
11-06-2015, 01:51 PM
his rebounding isnt even a problem but those who stat watch will think so. He is doing a great job at boxing out his man to clear space for the rest of the team thats why see you guys like McConell and Canaan grabbing 7 boards in a game.

I really would expect a Laker fan to say hes not sold since it has to sting so so bad they passed on him. There is no other reason to say something like that at the moment when Okafor has been the better player.

Wasn't going to say that bit about him being a sour laker's fan but was obviously thinking it haha.
I disagree though, Oak can box out his man and still come down with the board. I think hes still getting into game shape and exerts himself so much on teh offensive end that hes being a little more content with letting his teamamtes clean up the boards,

tredigs
11-06-2015, 02:23 PM
Towns has more upside no doubt. Doesn't mean he is going to be the better player. Oaks defense has been better than advertised too, hes been a solid post defender this season and has had a few nice blocks including one where he denied giannis at the rim.

hes averaging 20 and 6 as a rookie and is one of the most efficient iso players in the game already. lack of leadership on the team is none issue.

If you think lack of leadership on a perennial 15 win team full of young 20 yr olds is a "none issue", to each their own man. And I've been watching the Sixers and watched him in college. His defense is terrible, and the stats back that up in droves. I think that Townes both has massively more upside and is already arguably the better player.

2-ONE-5
11-06-2015, 02:34 PM
Anything but scoring for me. I've seen him score, which we knew he can do. And that's valuable to be sure, but he doesn't seem concerned with playmaking or defense. Unfortunate signs for a big that has such lofty expectations.

Townes is showing that he has the potential to be a GREAT defender, and a very capable scorer. From a big, that's the player you want every time.

Also, a very real side effect of Hinkie's plan in Philly is a clear oversight (IMO) of a lack of leadership for these young guys. Townes has Garnett. That's invaluable. Who does Okafor have?

if you think this then you really havent watched him play. His defense has been nothing short of solid. Im not sure how you expect a C to be some big playmaker, its not his job even though we have seen him run the fast break end to end. Since his first game he hasnt turned the ball over more than twice despite his high usage and being doule teamed. Cant believe poeple are still trying to nitpick.

2-ONE-5
11-06-2015, 02:37 PM
Wasn't going to say that bit about him being a sour laker's fan but was obviously thinking it haha.
I disagree though, Oak can box out his man and still come down with the board. I think hes still getting into game shape and exerts himself so much on teh offensive end that hes being a little more content with letting his teamamtes clean up the boards,

true he can box and out and chase boards and he has even mentioned that he will start going after boards more aggressively but its not a concern bcuz we have a pretty decent rebounding team as a whole, not to mention he plays with Noel who gobbles them up.

Iversonfan4life
11-06-2015, 03:13 PM
If you think lack of leadership on a perennial 15 win team full of young 20 yr olds is a "none issue", to each their own man. And I've been watching the Sixers and watched him in college. His defense is terrible, and the stats back that up in droves. I think that Townes both has massively more upside and is already arguably the better player.

Its more a lack of talent than leadership. we really only have 4 or 5 nba caliber players. not saying you dont have a point just dont think it applies to oakafor who is a natural leader and could probably teach most veteran centers in the league a thing or two about playing the position.

tredigs
11-06-2015, 03:20 PM
if you think this then you really havent watched him play. His defense has been nothing short of solid. Im not sure how you expect a C to be some big playmaker, its not his job even though we have seen him run the fast break end to end. Since his first game he hasnt turned the ball over more than twice despite his high usage and being doule teamed. Cant believe poeple are still trying to nitpick.

Why do you suppose that despite playing alongside Noel the Sixers defense as a whole has been terrible and that Okafor's defensive metrics are in the gutter? Even compared to the other Sixers he has a 110 D rating to their 107. That's not an end-all stat, but it fits right along with his other defensive metrics, his reputation, and the eye test. I've watched him play, and not as a die hard fan. As an objective observer.



Its more a lack of talent than leadership. we really only have 4 or 5 nba caliber players. not saying you dont have a point just dont think it applies to oakafor who is a natural leader and could probably teach most veteran centers in the league a thing or two about playing the position.
Leadership is vital to success in the league on so many different levels (forget wins and losses, that comes in time if the foundation is set and... has proper leadership). He could probably teach some of them how to attack the basket though, you're right, so there is that.

2-ONE-5
11-06-2015, 03:36 PM
i could care less what advanced stats say, you still need to use your eyes to validate so maybe give it a try? if you watched him like you claimed then you could see it. But you just made it clear that you actually haven't watched him play which is no surprise based on your comments.

We have Landry for all that overrated vet leadership by the way.

TheIlladelph16
11-06-2015, 03:56 PM
I'm pretty sure using any advanced statistic to make conclusions after four games of play is absurd, and shows that you lack basic understanding on the subject. You need much more of a sample size to make any conclusion.

You ask why despite playing with Noel, the Sixers D ratings are in the gutter... Maybe the fact that we are starting TJ McConnel at PG and two other perimeter players who aren't very good defenders has something to do with that.

Iversonfan4life
11-06-2015, 04:03 PM
Leadership is vital to success in the league on so many different levels (forget wins and losses, that comes in time if the foundation is set and... has proper leadership). He could probably teach some of them how to attack the basket though, you're right, so there is that.[/QUOTE]

i guess well agree to disagree on leadership being so vital. He could teach most centers a lot more than that. you really need to watch this season to better understand the point im trying to make. hes doing things on the offensive end that are making veteran nba defenders look stupid.

tredigs
11-06-2015, 04:03 PM
Ohhh you fiesty little 6ers fans, look at you squirm. I told you I watched him play (probably a hell of a lot more than you considering I followed him closely in college), I'm just trying to cut through your homerism with some raw stats that highlight everything myself and objective fans are seeing from him on that end. Watching him try to protect the rim or hedge a pick 'n roll is an exercise in futility. Maybe he'll eventually get there, he's young as can be, but by and large the signs are there that he's going to be an offensive minded big through and through.

2-ONE-5
11-06-2015, 04:47 PM
its not even homersim and im a die hard Duke fan too so no you havent watched him play more me, in fact less since you havent seen prob more than a half of a Sixers game. You act like he is some finished product and not a 19 year old rookie. No one is claming hes some all world defender or even better than Towns but he has surely been better than anyone was giving him credit for and has been anything but a liability on that end.

2-ONE-5
11-06-2015, 04:48 PM
if he stunk on D or seemed disinterested as you wrongly claim trust me Sixers fans would be all over him since that was his biggest knock coming here.

Iversonfan4life
11-06-2015, 05:32 PM
Ohhh you fiesty little 6ers fans, look at you squirm. I told you I watched him play (probably a hell of a lot more than you considering I followed him closely in college), I'm just trying to cut through your homerism with some raw stats that highlight everything myself and objective fans are seeing from him on that end. Watching him try to protect the rim or hedge a pick 'n roll is an exercise in futility. Maybe he'll eventually get there, he's young as can be, but by and large the signs are there that he's going to be an offensive minded big through and through.

I said watch him this season. Dont really care what you watched when he was at duke its a completely different game not to mention system he was in. through 4 games which isnt much i understand, he has looked solid on the defensive end. He is pretty bad at defending the pick an roll but thats one of those skills that comes with game expericence. Which he has very little of.

Hawkeye15
11-06-2015, 05:36 PM
I said watch him this season. Dont really care what you watched when he was at duke its a completely different game not to mention system he was in. through 4 games which isnt much i understand, he has looked solid on the defensive end. He is pretty bad at defending the pick an roll but thats one of those skills that comes with game expericence. Which he has very little of.

Towns has been good guarding the PnR. But that is because he played a lot on the perimeter in high school I suspect. PnR defense is not something you see as a big man until you get to the NBA, so it's easy to understand why so many bigs suck at it to begin with.

tredigs
11-06-2015, 05:42 PM
I said watch him this season. Dont really care what you watched when he was at duke its a completely different game not to mention system he was in. through 4 games which isnt much i understand, he has looked solid on the defensive end. He is pretty bad at defending the pick an roll but thats one of those skills that comes with game expericence. Which he has very little of.

Lol well, I've seen 50% of his NBA career minutes. I watched the Cavs game and the Jazz game because I wanted to see how those two stacked up offensively versus Gobert (got owned).

Listen, I'm not "hating" on Okafor. I think he's going to be a beast as a scorer. But he has a ways to go as a playmaker and a defender, period. Can he get there? Of course with the right amount of work he can improve, but by and large elite NBA defenders were HIGHLY elite college defenders, or at least show strong flashes of that, even as freshman (especially in modern college ball where all the elite players are freshman). Which obviously he did not.

KAT on the other hand did, which is why I love his future. He's also scoring at nearly the same rate as Okafor this season, albeit on a lower percentage. He won't be as good as Oka in that regard, I'm pretty sure of that.

Hawkeye15
11-06-2015, 05:55 PM
Lol well, I've seen 50% of his NBA career minutes. I watched the Cavs game and the Jazz game because I wanted to see how those two stacked up offensively versus Gobert (got owned).

Listen, I'm not "hating" on Okafor. I think he's going to be a beast as a scorer. But he has a ways to go as a playmaker and a defender, period. Can he get there? Of course with the right amount of work he can improve, but by and large elite NBA defenders were HIGHLY elite college defenders, or at least show strong flashes of that, even as freshman (especially in modern college ball where all the elite players are freshman). Which obviously he did not.

KAT on the other hand did, which is why I love his future. He's also scoring at nearly the same rate as Okafor this season, albeit on a lower percentage. He won't be as good as Oka in that regard, I'm pretty sure of that.

rebounding and defense always seem to translate from college into the NBA. If you aren't much of either it's not like you can't get better, but as you said, rather take the guy who we know already has that down, versus the guy who needs to expand it in his game.

I also think Towns might be a pretty good scorer, he will end up with 3 point range for sure.

FlashBolt
11-06-2015, 06:50 PM
I don't care how well your center can score.. Bargnani could score better than 90% of the centers but he can't rebound or defend. Your center should first and foremost be a rebounder/defender and everything else is a bonus (with FT shooting being really valuable these days). Okafor was a solid pickup for a rebuilding team but his ceiling isn't as high as Towns -- someone who can score when needed, above average defender, solid rebounder, great FT shooter, just everything about his game translates to winning basketball. Okafor will be a better scorer because of his size but as long as Towns can drop 18 PPG, he'll be fine.

Hawkeye15
11-06-2015, 07:59 PM
I don't care how well your center can score.. Bargnani could score better than 90% of the centers but he can't rebound or defend. Your center should first and foremost be a rebounder/defender and everything else is a bonus (with FT shooting being really valuable these days). Okafor was a solid pickup for a rebuilding team but his ceiling isn't as high as Towns -- someone who can score when needed, above average defender, solid rebounder, great FT shooter, just everything about his game translates to winning basketball. Okafor will be a better scorer because of his size but as long as Towns can drop 18 PPG, he'll be fine.

oh I think Towns may very well be a 22-13-4-2.5 player who defends the paint and can stretch the floor, and one of the better passing centers. Multiple all star games. I have already seen enough in 4 games.

tredigs
11-06-2015, 09:18 PM
Okafor is displaying some absolutely terrible rebounding prowess by the way. And it has nothing to do with him boxing out at an elite level and letting others get to it (as was mentioned earlier). I'm watching him and only him in this game and I have yet to see him box out a player. Mozgov is owning his position on both ends with ease.

tredigs
11-06-2015, 09:23 PM
I do love when he has the ball with his face to the basket though. Great ball-handling + slash/post moves.

Yanks All Day
11-06-2015, 11:18 PM
Justise Winslow is still the best player from this draft, by the way. Might take him a year or two to blossom ala Butler or Kawhi, but you're looking at the next great two-way player in the NBA.

More-Than-Most
11-06-2015, 11:35 PM
Justise Winslow is still the best player from this draft, by the way. Might take him a year or two to blossom ala Butler or Kawhi, but you're looking at the next great two-way player in the NBA.

I am sure it helps that he is one of the only guys in an ideal situation with a ton of help around him as well.

FlashBolt
11-07-2015, 12:26 AM
Lol.. he can turn into Butler and Kawhi all he wants. Towns might be the next NBA great.

mjbnjm
11-07-2015, 08:09 AM
its about to become the same debate that KG vs Duncan was for the late 90's and early 00's. http://computerstalk.com/red/images/42.gif http://computerstalk.com/red/images/41.gif http://computerstalk.com/red/images/40.gif

ewing
11-07-2015, 09:12 AM
its about to become the same debate that KG vs Duncan was for the late 90's and early 00's. http://computerstalk.com/red/images/42.gif http://computerstalk.com/red/images/41.gif http://computerstalk.com/red/images/40.gif

who is the over hyped 2nd option and who is Tim Duncan :)

JEDean89
11-07-2015, 09:39 AM
KAT: 14.8 ppg, 8.8 rpg, 2.8 blks, 49% FG, 28.85 MPG, 17.7 PER
Jah: 19.8 ppg, 5.6 rpg, .8 blks, 53% FG, 34.5 MPG, 16.7 PER
KP: 12.3 PPG, 8.3 rpg, 1.2 blks, 41% FG, 24 MPG, 20 PER
WCS: 7.2 PPG, 6.7 rpg, 1.3 blks, 71% FG, 22 MPG, 19.2 PER

so we see that there is not too much difference in terms of efficiency, with such a small sample size meaning little more than that at least all these guys can play. first, jahlil's rebounding numbers are abysmal, and he has no excuse with his frame and strength. second, KP's is really good, and so far is leading the rookies in both Offensive rebounds/rebound rate and Total Rebounds/rebound rate, so that's really encouraging and his putback slams are extremely unique. His PER and FG% are being held down by his 3 ball not being there. The NBA three is deep, and he is still adjusting his range. Third, KAT deserved the 1st overall pick, I still like him the most in this draft, and I think he and KP will headline this draft class, both are 7 fters who protect the rim, rebound, score and get steals. Can't wait to watch that matchup. 4th, WCS is more ready than I thought, he's scoring well and is the best defender in the group, he just may end up justifying his draft spot after all.

nycericanguy
11-07-2015, 03:41 PM
^ Agree on KP, the one thing he hasnt done well so far is shoot the 3, but we saw in SL and preseason that he CAN shoot the 3. Once that comes around his numbers will look much better.

Here's an interesting stat.

Tommy Beer: Porzingis is just the 3rd player this decade with at least 70 points & 50 rebs in their first 6 career games (Blake Griffin, Anthony Davis). 47 mins ago via Twitter TommyBeer

Pretty impressive considering KP is getting significantly less minutes than the other top picks.

Okafor can score the hell out of the ball, he's a better Al Jeff... but I think the Duncan comps were off because Duncan was such a complete player. KP & Towns look like they are going to affect the game in so many different ways on both ends. They are more new millennial type NBA players.

islanders11040
11-07-2015, 03:47 PM
Lol.. he can turn into Butler and Kawhi all he wants. Towns might be the next NBA great.
Have you come around on the Knicks Porzingis draft pick being a Joke yet? Probably not im assuming.

5ass
11-07-2015, 04:09 PM
Porzingis is the next great Euro, and IMO will be the best player in the draft.

Jamiecballer
11-07-2015, 04:17 PM
Porzingis is going to be incredible. i've only watched the highlights of his games so far but he is incredibly clever, assured, great stroke even plays physical. he's everything we wanted Barney to be.

FlashBolt
11-07-2015, 07:39 PM
Have you come around on the Knicks Porzingis draft pick being a Joke yet? Probably not im assuming.

So he's grabbing rebounds because he's tall and shooting 40% from the field? Yes, he was a joke pick for the NYK if they wanted to win. They aren't making the playoffs and they are just wasting Melo's years away. Do you really think Melo wants to rebuild?

nycericanguy
11-07-2015, 07:52 PM
So he's grabbing rebounds because he's tall and shooting 40% from the field? Yes, he was a joke pick for the NYK if they wanted to win. They aren't making the playoffs and they are just wasting Melo's years away. Do you really think Melo wants to rebuild?

who do you think NY should have picked if "they wanted to win"?

D-Leethal
11-07-2015, 09:43 PM
who do you think NY should have picked if "they wanted to win"?

lol, seriously. I think the nonsense about KP apparently being some scrub for 5 years before ever becoming a quality player can be shelved for good. He is as far ahead of the curve as anyone in the draft that didn't go #1 overall. He was the right pick at #4. Right here and now there is no legitimate argument against that.

Crackadalic
11-07-2015, 10:07 PM
Towns is by far the best player so far in this draft

islanders11040
11-07-2015, 10:12 PM
So he's grabbing rebounds because he's tall and shooting 40% from the field? Yes, he was a joke pick for the NYK if they wanted to win. They aren't making the playoffs and they are just wasting Melo's years away. Do you really think Melo wants to rebuild?

This is all Music to my ears. I love it.:clap:

mngopher35
11-07-2015, 10:18 PM
Towns is by far the best player so far in this draft

It is very early but I have been extremely impressed with Towns. I thought it would be a while for him to get up to speed but he has had an impact at both ends already.

More-Than-Most
11-07-2015, 11:10 PM
Towns is by far the best player so far in this draft

He has Wiggins... Oka has next to no help outside of Noel... The wolves have more around him but yea he is gonna be a beast soon.

Crackadalic
11-07-2015, 11:40 PM
He has Wiggins... Oka has next to no help outside of Noel... The wolves have more around him but yea he is gonna be a beast soon.

Yeah I get that but when I watch towns play he just looks so smart out there. His skills is off the charts

Towns/Okafor/KP in no order will dominate the nba in a few years. Glad the center position is getting much better in todays nba

More-Than-Most
11-07-2015, 11:52 PM
Yeah I get that but when I watch towns play he just looks so smart out there. His skills is off the charts

Towns/Okafor/KP in no order will dominate the nba in a few years. Glad the center position is getting much better in todays nba

yup... I think Oka is the most offensively gifted... I think Towns is the smartest and I think KP has the drive/work ethic/skills to be better than both.

Sadds The Gr8
11-08-2015, 02:39 AM
It is very early but I have been extremely impressed with Towns. I thought it would be a while for him to get up to speed but he has had an impact at both ends already.

I didnt think he'd be this good offensively so fast. He's been awesome

nycericanguy
11-08-2015, 09:51 AM
He has Wiggins... Oka has next to no help outside of Noel... The wolves have more around him but yea he is gonna be a beast soon.

none of these guys really have pressure to win now though... Okafor not having anyone else is kind of good being that he's getting more minutes and shots than any rookie.

Towns is playing significantly less minutes, yet averaging double the rebounds as Okafor and triple the blocks...pretty amazing. Not to mention MIN is actually decent this year, something Love could never do with that team. He's been really the most impressive.

More-Than-Most
11-08-2015, 02:11 PM
none of these guys really have pressure to win now though... Okafor not having anyone else is kind of good being that he's getting more minutes and shots than any rookie.

Towns is playing significantly less minutes, yet averaging double the rebounds as Okafor and triple the blocks...pretty amazing. Not to mention MIN is actually decent this year, something Love could never do with that team. He's been really the most impressive.

the rebound thing isnt as much of a concern considering Noel plays next to oka the majority of the time and it is a big deal how bad the sixers team is compared to the wolves... is Towns being double teamed 90 percent of the time?

I do think he should be pulling down about 2 more a game then he is but its not as big of a deal as others are making it because of the noel factor.

nycericanguy
11-08-2015, 02:32 PM
the rebound thing isnt as much of a concern considering Noel plays next to oka the majority of the time and it is a big deal how bad the sixers team is compared to the wolves... is Towns being double teamed 90 percent of the time?

I do think he should be pulling down about 2 more a game then he is but its not as big of a deal as others are making it because of the noel factor.

Well it's a double edged sword because he is getting so many minutes and shots BECAUSE Philly is so bad... if he were on a better team his per game numbers would probably look worse. Maybe 17 & 4 or something like that.

5rpg in 34mpg for a guy his size is pretty bad man... Noel isn't Dennis Rodman out there either... there are plenty of boards to go around.

His rebound rate is worse than even Bargs and Eddy Curry... and way worse than a guy like Brook Lopez who can't rebound for ****...lol. I didn't think that was possible

But at the end of the day he's a gifted scorer, I'd be happy with him on NY... but it is a troubling stat.

2-ONE-5
11-08-2015, 03:03 PM
its really not troubling in the least right now. we have a decent rebounding team and he does a good job boxing out his man to open space for the others, he will start to get more aggressive going after them as the season goes on. His offense, overall defense, FT's, and conditioning are all better then expected so far, he really is a special talent, thank you Lakers.

nycericanguy
11-08-2015, 03:27 PM
its really not troubling in the least right now. we have a decent rebounding team and he does a good job boxing out his man to open space for the others, he will start to get more aggressive going after them as the season goes on. His offense, overall defense, FT's, and conditioning are all better then expected so far, he really is a special talent, thank you Lakers.

I think you're lying to yourself if you say its not troubling even in the least that he's averaging 5rpg in 34mpg.

It's ok to love a prospect and still realize they have flaws.

I love KP, but he needs to gain weight and work on his handle.

More-Than-Most
11-08-2015, 03:35 PM
I think you're lying to yourself if you say its not troubling even in the least that he's averaging 5rpg in 34mpg.

It's ok to love a prospect and still realize they have flaws.

I love KP, but he needs to gain weight and work on his handle.

I dont love him as a prospect and wanted russ and agree with everything 2ONE5 just said :shrug:

D-Leethal
11-08-2015, 04:06 PM
I think you're lying to yourself if you say its not troubling even in the least that he's averaging 5rpg in 34mpg.

It's ok to love a prospect and still realize they have flaws.

I love KP, but he needs to gain weight and work on his handle.

One thing to say he needs to work on it, another thing to say its troubling. I don't think anyone is saying its troubling that KP hasn't put on weight or doesn't have guard-like handles. I wouldn't say it's troubling that Okafor is a crappy rebounder but I don't think he looks like a guy who will get you double digit boards. I'm a believer that boxing out is just as important as chasing boards, but if Okafor wants to be a HOF Center he will need to grab more boards and improve his agility on D.

Hawkeye15
11-08-2015, 04:55 PM
One thing to say he needs to work on it, another thing to say its troubling. I don't think anyone is saying its troubling that KP hasn't put on weight or doesn't have guard-like handles. I wouldn't say it's troubling that Okafor is a crappy rebounder but I don't think he looks like a guy who will get you double digit boards. I'm a believer that boxing out is just as important as chasing boards, but if Okafor wants to be a HOF Center he will need to grab more boards and improve his agility on D.

Okafor reminds me basically of Brook Lopez. That isn't a bad thing, very good offensive scoring offensive center, but you better pair an elite rim protecting rebounder next to him is all.

2-ONE-5
11-08-2015, 05:02 PM
I think you're lying to yourself if you say its not troubling even in the least that he's averaging 5rpg in 34mpg.

It's ok to love a prospect and still realize they have flaws.

I love KP, but he needs to gain weight and work on his handle.

i never said he didnt have flaws, he does, all of these rookies do. I also said right now its not an issue, he will improve in that area but right now he is making a positive impact on both ends of the floor. People just dont like to admit when they we were wrong about player so they continue to nitpick and its even worse bcuz most hate the Sixers and dont want to see us succeed.

Hawkeye15
11-08-2015, 05:11 PM
i never said he didnt have flaws, he does, all of these rookies do. I also said right now its not an issue, he will improve in that area but right now he is making a positive impact on both ends of the floor. People just dont like to admit when they we were wrong about player so they continue to nitpick and its even worse bcuz most hate the Sixers and dont want to see us succeed.

most people/scouts said he would be able to score right away, but would struggle defending and wasn't a good rebounder. Pretty much nailed it.

But judging 19 year old big men is hard to do. Some take longer to learn certain things, some never do.

2-ONE-5
11-08-2015, 05:21 PM
hes not struggling to defend though and as someone who watched him every game at Duke even im impressed with the offense so far. Lets not forget they all said he wasnt in good shape and coldnt hit foul shots.

Hawkeye15
11-08-2015, 05:29 PM
hes not struggling to defend though and as someone who watched him every game at Duke even im impressed with the offense so far. Lets not forget they all said he wasnt in good shape and coldnt hit foul shots.

I have only watched one Sixers game this year, and he looked like he was in good shape. I always thought his FT shooting would end up fine, the mechanics were there, he just missed a lot in college.

Go look up Karl Malone's college/rookie year from the line hahaha, you will puke

flea
11-08-2015, 06:39 PM
Like I've said here before, worries about Okafor's defense were overstated. His rotations are good and he's a high IQ player, and his man D is solid for a guy who couldn't afford fouls in college since he was the offensive centerpiece. I've watched the Magic game and part of the Jazz one and his defense has looked good to me, especially compared to most young bigs over the years, in that small sample I've seen.

Coach K runs a somewhat NBA styled man D, usually a bit more aggressive but it was scaled back last year and even went to some zones (mostly to save fouls and play conservatively since their offense was elite). Okafor learned in college that he's big and just putting himself in the play is often good enough, and that's what I've seen so far. Duke was bad defensively early but stepped it up midseason and ended up a defensive juggernaut through the tourny (finishing like 11th or 12th in defensive efficiency overall in the country). A lot of that was Okafor's improvement.

His defensive rebounding wasn't great last year but he was a good offensive rebounder, and that has carried over early. Sometimes you did see him resting last year, just boxing out his man and relying on teammates to chase boards. I'm sure he'll be good enough based on his frame and athleticism - a floor of Marc Gasol rebounding and a ceiling of Marcin Gortat. He doesn't have the instincts of savant rebounders but he's got plenty of physical tools and IQ to be good enough. I don't think he'll be disappointing like a Hibbert/Nene at rebounding.

Bruno
11-08-2015, 10:18 PM
Okafor could go down as the better offensive player, but I think Townes may go down as the overall better player.

very Dirk vs KG esque in its dynamic.

More-Than-Most
11-08-2015, 10:36 PM
Okafor could go down as the better offensive player, but I think Townes may go down as the overall better player.

very Dirk vs KG esque in its dynamic.

Spot on... I do think Noel will kinda keep that from happening to a degree... Noel will make OKA look much better on defense if that makes sense.

TheIlladelph16
11-09-2015, 04:42 PM
Spot on... I do think Noel will kinda keep that from happening to a degree... Noel will make OKA look much better on defense if that makes sense.

Noel is already playing himself into DPOY discussion, so I'd imagine playing the paint with him is definitely going to help.

Hawkeye15
11-09-2015, 05:18 PM
Noel is already playing himself into DPOY discussion, so I'd imagine playing the paint with him is definitely going to help.

they don't even think twice about a player from a team that is bottom 5 in defense. He will get no consideration.

TheIlladelph16
11-09-2015, 05:21 PM
they don't even think twice about a player from a team that is bottom 5 in defense. He will get no consideration.

While you are likely correct in reality, in the discussion of who could actually win the award on merit he would be involved.

Hawkeye15
11-09-2015, 05:24 PM
While you are likely correct in reality, in the discussion of who could actually win the award on merit he would be involved.

ok, an easier way. Top 2-3 defenders are not part of terrible defenses. Especially bigs. If Noel were a legit candidate, his team would be much stronger defensively. For instance, a young Dwight makes a bottom 5 team at least average on that end. Why? Because elite bigs keep easy shots at a very low rate for the opponent.

2-ONE-5
11-09-2015, 05:25 PM
Noel will certainly get consideration for votes if he is deserving, he got a third place vote last season after anchoring the tenth ranked D

Hawkeye15
11-09-2015, 05:30 PM
Noel will certainly get consideration for votes if he is deserving, he got a third place vote last season after anchoring the tenth ranked D

their defense needs to improve than.

I do think he has a future as getting some all NBA defensive team votes, and might make some.

2-ONE-5
11-10-2015, 10:02 AM
our D will improve. We have been without out Wroten and Covington who are strong defenders (more so Wroten). It took some time for the D to get going last year too. Sooner rather than later Noel will be in the running every year,

Oefarmy2005
11-10-2015, 03:35 PM
As far as KG vs Duncan thing, KG was always a better allarounder, while TD was a more gifted offensive player. TD was/is a great passer and a very good defender when it was all said and done, so I still think Okafor may have a chance in that regard. The low rebounding numbers is the one thing that troubles me though...

2-ONE-5
11-10-2015, 03:55 PM
As far as KG vs Duncan thing, KG was always a better allarounder, while TD was a more gifted offensive player. TD was/is a great passer and a very good defender when it was all said and done, so I still think Okafor may have a chance in that regard. The low rebounding numbers is the one thing that troubles me though...

he did grab 15 last night. Noel was out and Okafor was being counted on to clean up the glass and he came through. I expect him to build off that a remain more aggressive going forward.

Hawkeye15
11-10-2015, 06:54 PM
As far as KG vs Duncan thing, KG was always a better allarounder, while TD was a more gifted offensive player. TD was/is a great passer and a very good defender when it was all said and done, so I still think Okafor may have a chance in that regard. The low rebounding numbers is the one thing that troubles me though...

Duncan was a great defender/rebounder coming in though. In fact he was just great.

He also didn't run and hide come playoff time like KG did at times.