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JEDean89
10-16-2015, 12:20 PM
Wow, the reports coming out continue to get worse. It is now thought that Embiid's 2nd surgery was the result of him not wearing his walking boot in Vegas, and worse, running and dunking on it. this is the highest level of unprofessionalism. i was a huge fan of the kid coming out, i mean, we just haven't seen a 7' 1" 7' 6" wingspan 260 lb guy who could play like that in a long long time. comps to hakeem were warranted, and i really can't understand what the 76ers org must be going through. To have a talent like that, who made it out of Africa and given the keys to the kingdom piss it all away over chicken strips and "pitchers of shirley temples", is a disgrace to himself, his family, and all those that would do anything to be in his place. Oden at least had somewhat of a work ethic, Embiid is fast reach Eddy Curry status and if I'm the 76ers, I'm planning my whole rebuild around the notion that this dude will never play for them.

the 76ers are actually closer than most people realize to fielding a nice roster. i think the jazz showed how fast a rebuild can turn around, and I think the Magic will show it again this year. If they have their own pick, which is top 3, and the Lakers, which is top 7-10, with Saric coming over, its not too hard to see what this team could be like. Imagine a combination of Simmons with their top pick and Jamal Murray with the Lakers. Suddenly, they have a nice starting 5, and Noel + a ton of picks to make trades. that said, they were a god awful team for an entire year so they could draft him, and to have that all be for nothing is a brutal reality behind tanking. still to this day, tanking for the #1 pick has only been succesful once, and that was the Spurs. The Warriors, IMO, showed a far better way to tank. They had Curry and Thompson, but no SF, so they tanked a season they weren't going to make the playoffs from like the 13th worst to the 7th, and landed Harrison Barnes. IMO, that is how you tank. Or if your the Wolves last year and you had Wiggins, then you tank, pick up Towns, and now you don't ever have to tank again, even if they are bad, they will give it 110% every night. By this Logic, I'd understand the Blazers tanking this year. Give them a nice SF like Ingram or Brown to pair with Lillard, Vonleh, McCollum and Leonard. Build a nice team, then tank for the final piece. then once you get that stud, do everything you can to surround him with as much talent as possible.

2-ONE-5
10-16-2015, 12:47 PM
Why is the NY fans always going after the Sixers plan the most?

2-ONE-5
10-16-2015, 12:48 PM
also we kind of knew this already here. The day after he dunked between his legs in warmups he was back in a boot....

PhillyFaninLA
10-16-2015, 01:43 PM
Still was worth the risk....if he would have worked, or somehow ends up working it could be huge...and besides with him injured we got Okafer so not to bad.

Tony_Starks
10-16-2015, 02:16 PM
I read that article. Hinkie is about to be in hot water. As if the Embiid pick wasn't questionable enough it looks like he was completely insubordinate about his rehab...to the extent the coach had to reprimand him. As well as not taking his diet seriously and other shenanigans.

Add to that the fact that apparently management was not very happy with the MCW deal and that whole Philly situation is one big debacle.

2-ONE-5
10-16-2015, 02:39 PM
when they see the 8th pick next year to go along with our top 1-5 pick i think they will get over it. this is prob thread worth but i love how the OP just continues to go out of his way to critique the way the team is being built like it has any relevance or like he knows what hes talking about

Vee-Rex
10-16-2015, 04:41 PM
I'm sorry but I don't see the love for Embiid. I think he's an immature prick.

People would cut off their testicles to have his talent and/or physical stature and have a shot in the league. 10 years ago I was 18 and I was far more mature than he appears to be.

kobe4thewinbang
10-16-2015, 09:44 PM
Could have been great but has a potato for a brain. Take the financial loss and let him go back to Cambodia or whatever fantasy land he lives in. At least Eddy Curry played. Hinkie's obviously getting fired and hopefully 76ers will be relevant in next 5 years. Should've traded MCW to Lakers.

More-Than-Most
10-16-2015, 10:39 PM
I read that article. Hinkie is about to be in hot water. As if the Embiid pick wasn't questionable enough it looks like he was completely insubordinate about his rehab...to the extent the coach had to reprimand him. As well as not taking his diet seriously and other shenanigans.

Add to that the fact that apparently management was not very happy with the MCW deal and that whole Philly situation is one big debacle.

Why is sixers management not happy about the MCW Deal? They must be stupid I guess because we gave up trash and got gold :shrug:

Also the Embiid pick was/is and will always be the right pick at the time nomatter what happens... You cant predict injuries and the dude had more potential than anyone else.

JEDean89
10-17-2015, 12:40 AM
i'm actually pro the MCW deal, that was a good move. i think taking Embiid was also the right move, but i do think that hinkie needs to rethink the lose at all cost mentality.

slaker619
10-17-2015, 12:57 AM
Been knew he was a bust

GoferKing_
10-17-2015, 06:31 AM
I knew Embiid would have injury issues, as same as I knew Oden will have.

FlakeyFool
10-17-2015, 10:29 AM
Oden has had them, not will have

beasted86
10-17-2015, 11:40 AM
Still was worth the risk....if he would have worked, or somehow ends up working it could be huge...and besides with him injured we got Okafer so not to bad.

How can it be looked at as a worthwhile risk coming right off the Bynum fiasco?

When a team is coming off that type of blunder is it smart to keep gambling big so immediately?

It's like a poker player losing an "all in" to a shorter stack, and directly on the next hand going all in with the little that he had remaining. Not a smart risk or gamble by the Sixers front office IMHO.

beasted86
10-17-2015, 11:46 AM
Why is sixers management not happy about the MCW Deal? They must be stupid I guess because we gave up trash and got gold :shrug:

Also the Embiid pick was/is and will always be the right pick at the time nomatter what happens... You cant predict injuries and the dude had more potential than anyone else.

I don't understand your part about predicting injuries when they drafted him with this injury that's somewhat volatile and difficult to heal without a reoccurring fracture.

This isn't a "Blake Griffin"where they drafted a 100% healthy player and got an unpredictable/unavoidable injury that cost him a season.

It might be fair to say he was/is the right pick because you believe he had/has the most potential, but not remotely realistic to say they could not predict this outcome. Not at all reasonable.

JEDean89
10-17-2015, 11:50 AM
^^^ but who do they take? there were 3 amazing talents in last years class. had they taken embiid over wiggins or parker, people should be outraged, however there was no 4th talent. exum and gordon are okay, but neither hold a candle to embiids upside, and who else? Smart, Randle? Embiid was the right choice, but taking 3 C's 3 years in a row is going to end in disaster. What if they get the 2nd pick this year? Simmons goes #1 to just about every team, but then what? Saric is a SF/PF, so is Ingram and Skal is a C, so they either have to take another C, or draft a redundant position. the only guys they really need are guards, and there's only one guy who stands out, and they'd likey either have to get absurdly lucky to draft him in his right place, or they will have to reach. If Hinkie goes into next season with 4 C's and a SF to show for 3 years of being a laughingstock then there should be riots in philly.

beasted86
10-17-2015, 12:02 PM
^^^ but who do they take? there were 3 amazing talents in last years class. had they taken embiid over wiggins or parker, people should be outraged, however there was no 4th talent. exum and gordon are okay, but neither hold a candle to embiids upside, and who else? Smart, Randle? Embiid was the right choice, but taking 3 C's 3 years in a row is going to end in disaster. What if they get the 2nd pick this year? Simmons goes #1 to just about every team, but then what? Saric is a SF/PF, so is Ingram and Skal is a C, so they either have to take another C, or draft a redundant position. the only guys they really need are guards, and there's only one guy who stands out, and they'd likey either have to get absurdly lucky to draft him in his right place, or they will have to reach. If Hinkie goes into next season with 4 C's and a SF to show for 3 years of being a laughingstock then there should be riots in philly.

There are times to take risks and there are times to play it safe in life. Ultimately you have to live with the results.

We judge those decision makers by the results not the hypothetical outcomes. IE: In 2010 Pat Riley cleared the entire roster except for 2 players: Chalmers and Beasley. Every single player otherwise was a free agent. If this was any other GM it would have probably blown up in their face and they would be regarded as one of the biggest idiots in the history of the league. But instead we judge him by the results of getting the big 3 and going to 4 straight Finals.

So the same applies here. We have no choice but to judge the Sixers GM Hinkie on the results. He used a 1st round 3rd overall pick on a player who may not play one single game for the team.

Similarly we would have heralded him as a genius if on that same draft night he traded that pick and this same fiasco happened to another team, and he went on to grab Wiggins or some other guy the following summer.

So for right now it was clearly a terrible decision.

Vinylman
10-17-2015, 12:13 PM
Why is sixers management not happy about the MCW Deal? They must be stupid I guess because we gave up trash and got gold :shrug:

Also the Embiid pick was/is and will always be the right pick at the time nomatter what happens... You cant predict injuries and the dude had more potential than anyone else.

quit using logic... it frustrates their troll narrative

Chronz
10-17-2015, 12:13 PM
I don't understand your part about predicting injuries when they drafted him with this injury that's somewhat volatile and difficult to heal without a reoccurring fracture.

This isn't a "Blake Griffin"where they drafted a 100% healthy player and got an unpredictable/unavoidable injury that cost him a season.

It might be fair to say he was/is the right pick because you believe he had/has the most potential, but not remotely realistic to say they could not predict this outcome. Not at all reasonable.

The thinking behind the draft was backed by management. They all knew it was a risk. Looks like it will never pay off for them with this kids immaturity.

Vinylman
10-17-2015, 12:18 PM
How can it be looked at as a worthwhile risk coming right off the Bynum fiasco?

When a team is coming off that type of blunder is it smart to keep gambling big so immediately?

It's like a poker player losing an "all in" to a shorter stack, and directly on the next hand going all in with the little that he had remaining. Not a smart risk or gamble by the Sixers front office IMHO.

who did you want at 3? Who?

That's what i thought

beasted86
10-17-2015, 12:25 PM
who did you want at 3? Who?

That's what i thought
Doesn't matter what I want. It matters what they got: Nothing.

They could have traded the pick up or down, but they choose not to. They could have drafted a different player at the same 3, they choose not to.

Ultimately they wasted a draft pick (and millions of dollars) on nothing (so far). I don't see how that is at all debatable. I don't even see how that is not viewed as fact rather than an opinion. Am I a troll for stating facts?

Vinylman
10-17-2015, 12:31 PM
Doesn't matter what I want. It matters what they got: Nothing.

They could have traded the pick up or down, but they choose not to. They could have drafted a different player at the same 3, they choose not to.

Ultimately they wasted a draft pick (and millions of dollars) on nothing (so far). I don't see how that is at all debatable. I don't even see how that is not viewed as fact rather than an opinion. Am I a troll for stating facts?

you didn't offer any facts ... you said they shouldn't have taken the risk (that in a nutshell is the definition of an OPINION)... unfortunately there is no one in the draft after the second spot in 2014 that wouldn't have taken Embiid...

It is easy to play monday morning quarterback but the FACTS are that every team after 2 would have taken him

beasted86
10-17-2015, 12:32 PM
The thinking behind the draft was backed by management. They all knew it was a risk. Looks like it will never pay off for them with this kids immaturity.

I get that.... What I'm saying is clearly their decision making team knew this was a possible outcome, but decided to go with it anyway.

This wasn't something they couldn't predict given the nature of this injury and medical history. At the end of the day they decided taking this risk was a better option than drafting a different player or trading the pick for other assets. Only people who should be mad at this outcome is the fans. Internally, there are no surprises among the Sixers brass I'm sure. They are all probably okay with this, and I'm guessing Hinkie is very safe in his job for the time being.

beasted86
10-17-2015, 12:35 PM
you didn't offer any facts ... you said they shouldn't have taken the risk (that in a nutshell is the definition of an OPINION)... unfortunately there is no one in the draft after the second spot in 2014 that wouldn't have taken Embiid...

It is easy to play monday morning quarterback but the FACTS are that every team after 2 would have taken him

Tell me where I said they should have drafted someone else in the post you just quoted. Please show me any part of that post that should be viewed as an opinion. I'm waiting to hear back.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
10-17-2015, 12:53 PM
Well 76ers were #3. Embiid would of went #1 if healthy. Cavs and Bucks weren't trading down. Embiid was next best pick. I would of taken him as well. Sucks he was injured and reinjured. But they got Okafor as a bonus. Think if Embiid was healthy rookie year. No way 76ers be dead last. Bucks would of taken Embiid if Cavs didn't if he was healthy. Bucks got #2 so we took Parker since we hope he's a better version of Glenn Robinson.

2-ONE-5
10-17-2015, 01:09 PM
Doesn't matter what I want. It matters what they got: Nothing.

They could have traded the pick up or down, but they choose not to. They could have drafted a different player at the same 3, they choose not to.

Ultimately they wasted a draft pick (and millions of dollars) on nothing (so far). I don't see how that is at all debatable. I don't even see how that is not viewed as fact rather than an opinion. Am I a troll for stating facts?

wellmdid end up getting the 8th pick from the same draft with Stauskus not like its a total loss for the class. Im fairly confident Embiid will see the court next year too

Vinylman
10-17-2015, 01:37 PM
Tell me where I said they should have drafted someone else in the post you just quoted. Please show me any part of that post that should be viewed as an opinion. I'm waiting to hear back.

the intelligence in this forum is at an all time low... i couldn't care less what you said in your response to my first post... your response is the old bait and switch... your response had nothing to do with what i originally responded to which was 100% opinion

beasted86
10-17-2015, 02:01 PM
wellmdid end up getting the 8th pick from the same draft with Stauskus not like its a total loss for the class. Im fairly confident Embiid will see the court next year too

Well I would expect this to be an ongoing issue.

I'm not a medical expect, but I'm forming that opinion based on expert responses. They've said usually when it was a non contract injury like this was its a structural problem. Unless he finds a way to slim down a lot, it doesn't seem like this will be a one time issue that once it's healed it's healed for good.

D-Leethal
10-17-2015, 02:31 PM
I don't think you can dog a team for picking a guy who turns into an injury prone trainwreck. You judge the pick based on the talent of the player when healthy, injuries can derail any career. You can't dog a GM for not being able to predict the unpredictable. Embiid was so much better than the rest of the pack at #3 you had to take him.

Wade n Fade
10-17-2015, 02:44 PM
I wouldn't be surprised Embiid gets dealt soon. Indiana and NY would probably be likely spots. Having a reclamation project in NY with the ability to get the potential 3rd piece in a triangle offense would make the Knicks scary if it works w/ Melo, Embiid, and Porzingas.

Indiana could pair Embiid with Myles Turner as their tandem bigs.

JEDean89
10-17-2015, 02:59 PM
i think the big thing that needs to be asked, is not about the injury, but the constant flow of reports about his immaturity. apparently, he had issues at kansas, notably dietary and lack of work ethic. he had, foot, knee and back injuries prior to being drafted, each one of which is a flag for a 7 footer, those are literally the 3 worst places for a big to get injured. in order to maintain a frame like his, a player mus have the best dietary habbits and keep his body in impeccable shape. he gets compared to hakeem, but have you seen hakeem today? he's in better shape than Embiid.

https://www.google.com/search?q=hakeem+olajuwon&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=681&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAmoVChMIpL39xpTKyAIVDeJjCh0INgqZ#tbm= isch&q=hakeem+olajuwon+2015&imgrc=kgXUgdBlMx2k_M%3A

i get it, because i'm young and immature, but the difference is in the dollars. Embiid is an ambassador of the game to Cameroon, a multi million dollar man (more money than i will likely ever make in my life), but he also has a lot of family in Africa that he can really change the lives of. at this point, for him to not realize the significance of the chance he's been given, he has to make a fully dedicated effort, otherwise trade him to a team that believes in him.

embiid learns the game at an incredibly fast rate. It's why he went from being a top 10 player to the consensus #1 before getting hurt. He's so big and long and moves so well and has such a fabulous touch around the basket that we should all feel robbed. From Russell, to Wilt, to Kareem, to Hakeem to Shaq, the NBA is at its best with a goliath for all the davids to try and slay. I truly hope that Joel figures it out before its too late, he can't afford any more setbacks. The 76ers have positioned themselves exactly so that they can absorb this loss. though jahlil isn't embiid, he's going to be a nightmare. he's about 3 inches shorter, and doesn't move or shoot as well, but is a more natural scorer. I'm curious what Hinkie is waiting for, Noel is going to be an all defensive team Center, you can't play him with Jahlil or Embiid, and you can't play Embiid with Jahlil.

my last point is about how difficult it will be the 76ers to get fair value back for Embiid, Noel or whomever they end up trading. morey laid out a nice blueprint, liquidate assets into picks, and save up for a star. the problem for the 76ers is, they don't have a star to trade for. It only gets worse going forward, Noel is up for an extension next year summer, they'll have to max him. Part of a top picks value is getting that player for 4 years on a cheap contract, Noel cannot be traded for a top 3 pick, it just doesn't happen like that. In fact, the only way to get return is to trade him for multiple assets, but the 76ers don't need multiple assets they need a star. IMO, the 76ers should have drafted Mudiay, and built around Saric, Mudiay, Noel, trade Embiid for a pick, and go into next year with a stud PG and C, with the possibility of adding another 2-3 lotto picks, and Saric in 2016. PG and C are the hardest positions to draft for, and the most important. I always feel its easier to find forwards and wings than to find a PG or C. Mudiay, Murray, Saric, Simmons, Noel, the 76ers super team that will never be.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
10-17-2015, 04:06 PM
I wouldn't be surprised Embiid gets dealt soon. Indiana and NY would probably be likely spots. Having a reclamation project in NY with the ability to get the potential 3rd piece in a triangle offense would make the Knicks scary if it works w/ Melo, Embiid, and Porzingas.

Indiana could pair Embiid with Myles Turner as their tandem bigs.

If I was 76ers I wouldn't trade Embiid for a long time. Have to see him play yet. Heck if he ever becomes Hakeem and dealt before they know he's who they thought they draft. The trade be horrible. Would be pennies on the dollar.

skywalker33
10-17-2015, 05:00 PM
you didn't offer any facts

It is easy to play monday morning quarterback but the FACTS are that every team after 2 would have taken him



1. They could have traded the pick up or down, but they choose not to.

2.They could have drafted a different player at the same 3, they choose not to.

3. Ultimately they wasted a draft pick (and millions of dollars) on nothing (so far).

I'd call those facts.

D-Leethal
10-17-2015, 06:21 PM
I didn't see the unflattering reports around his work ethic, diet etc. until now.

That said, I think when you draft THAT high and a prospect with THAT much potential, you have to draft based on talent and hope your staff can work out the work ethic and character kinks. I understand the Eddy Curry comparisons, but the same type of stuff can be said for Shaquille O'Neal, Andrew Bynum etc.

D-Leethal
10-17-2015, 06:28 PM
I am way against Philly's blind "tank, pray and wait" strategy, but in the scope of their rebuild, they made the right call taking a shot on Embiid. Nobody behind him in that draft was anywhere close to his talent, you have to take him there.

Embiid's case is basically why the Philly strategy is a joke though. You waste a full season and need EVERYTHING to go right for it to work out.

By EVERYTHING you have to tank perfectly despite NBA players trying to win every game they play (not an easy feat), THAN get lucky in the lottery drawing to land a top 3 pick, THAN hope that draft has a franchise talent available, THAN hope that franchise talent has the requisite work ethic and focus to be a star in the NBA (you already tanked, you have to take him regardless as in Embiid's case), THAN pray he doesn't hit the injury bug.

Tank, luck, hope, pray. That is reality in a 5 year tank-based rebuild.

I understand building through the draft but Philly has taken it to a whole new level, to the point where they refuse to move the franchise forward and build a competitive roster until their tanking bears a LeBron or AD type talent. Too much tank, luck, hope, pray involved and too little meticulous roster construction for my liking.

Too much of their strategy hinges on things outside of their control. Too little effort and emphasis on things they CAN control (like adding talent outside of the draft). It is the equivalent of closing your eyes and praying for a miracle.

JAZZNC
10-17-2015, 06:41 PM
I am way against Philly's blind "tank, pray and wait" strategy, but in the scope of their rebuild, they made the right call taking a shot on Embiid. Nobody behind him in that draft was anywhere close to his talent, you have to take him there.

Embiid's case is basically why the Philly strategy is a joke though. You waste a full season and need EVERYTHING to go right for it to work out.

By EVERYTHING you have to tank perfectly despite NBA players trying to win every game they play (not an easy feat), THAN get lucky in the lottery drawing to land a top 3 pick, THAN hope that draft has a franchise talent available, THAN hope that franchise talent has the requisite work ethic and focus to be a star in the NBA (you already tanked, you have to take him regardless as in Embiid's case), THAN pray he doesn't hit the injury bug.

Tank, luck, hope, pray. That is reality in a 5 year tank-based rebuild.

I understand building through the draft but Philly has taken it to a whole new level, to the point where they refuse to move the franchise forward and build a competitive roster until their tanking bears a LeBron or AD type talent. Too much tank, luck, hope, pray involved and too little meticulous roster construction for my liking.

Too much of their strategy hinges on things outside of their control. Too little effort and emphasis on things they CAN control (like adding talent outside of the draft). It is the equivalent of closing your eyes and praying for a miracle.
I agree with you on all of this. However, you did us the word "than" in all caps multiple times when you should have used "then".....smh

ewing
10-17-2015, 07:18 PM
I am way against Philly's blind "tank, pray and wait" strategy, but in the scope of their rebuild, they made the right call taking a shot on Embiid. Nobody behind him in that draft was anywhere close to his talent, you have to take him there.

Embiid's case is basically why the Philly strategy is a joke though. You waste a full season and need EVERYTHING to go right for it to work out.

By EVERYTHING you have to tank perfectly despite NBA players trying to win every game they play (not an easy feat), THAN get lucky in the lottery drawing to land a top 3 pick, THAN hope that draft has a franchise talent available, THAN hope that franchise talent has the requisite work ethic and focus to be a star in the NBA (you already tanked, you have to take him regardless as in Embiid's case), THAN pray he doesn't hit the injury bug.

Tank, luck, hope, pray. That is reality in a 5 year tank-based rebuild.

I understand building through the draft but Philly has taken it to a whole new level, to the point where they refuse to move the franchise forward and build a competitive roster until their tanking bears a LeBron or AD type talent. Too much tank, luck, hope, pray involved and too little meticulous roster construction for my liking.

Too much of their strategy hinges on things outside of their control. Too little effort and emphasis on things they CAN control (like adding talent outside of the draft). It is the equivalent of closing your eyes and praying for a miracle.


this. i agree with the pick but still think the 7ers are an embarrassment to the league

slashsnake
10-17-2015, 07:44 PM
I am way against Philly's blind "tank, pray and wait" strategy, but in the scope of their rebuild, they made the right call taking a shot on Embiid. Nobody behind him in that draft was anywhere close to his talent, you have to take him there.



Love this, unfortunately history doesn't often care WHY someone busted.

Oden was the obvious choice to take, you can't teach size, guy had an NBA build (270 lbs and no body fat), was a 16-10 player left handed (his right was recovering and still dominated playing with his off hand), the work ethic, smarts, love of the game. Great post moves you can't do anything about, good midrange jumper, played best on the biggest stage, and freakishly athletic (faster than durant, quicker in lane agility drill and better vert by half a foot than Durant in the NBA combine). Aaron Brooks was lighting quick early on. Oden ran a 3/4 court sprint at almost the same speed (3.2 vs. 3.26 seconds, Durant was 3.47). And scary athletic big men that can play both ends of the court change franchises and he was one of them.

Durant couldn't even bench his own backpack....

The choice was a no-brainer at the time, but how often is that referred to as Portland making the wrong move.

2-ONE-5
10-18-2015, 09:15 AM
If I was 76ers I wouldn't trade Embiid for a long time. Have to see him play yet. Heck if he ever becomes Hakeem and dealt before they know he's who they thought they draft. The trade be horrible. Would be pennies on the dollar.

yea hes not going anywhere while under contract. These reports are not 100% true either.

TheIlladelph16
10-18-2015, 11:04 AM
There are times to take risks and there are times to play it safe in life. Ultimately you have to live with the results.

When your team is in a rebuild, you take that risk by taking the player with the highest upside (by a mile). It's really not even a question. Sucks he's hurt again, and I'm holding out hope he gets healthy for next season, but it was the correct pick at the time. It could still pay off for them at some point down the line.

Vinylman
10-18-2015, 11:15 AM
I'd call those facts.

umm that isn't the post i responded to... of course i know it is hard for some of the slow on PSD to keep up

Scoots
10-18-2015, 03:50 PM
you didn't offer any facts ... you said they shouldn't have taken the risk (that in a nutshell is the definition of an OPINION)... unfortunately there is no one in the draft after the second spot in 2014 that wouldn't have taken Embiid...

It is easy to play monday morning quarterback but the FACTS are that every team after 2 would have taken him

I remember before the draft that some teams were said to have removed him from their draft boards.

I don't know what the teams and medical staffs knew, but if I was a GM and only knew what I knew as a fan at draft time ... I would have taken Embiid at 3.

2-ONE-5
10-18-2015, 05:14 PM
i never heard of team taking him off their boards and i dont really believe that. I know that a report came out that Boston was prepared to take him at 7 and i cant imagine Orlando would have passed at 4 either.

Ty22Mitchell
10-20-2015, 05:07 AM
I am way against Philly's blind "tank, pray and wait" strategy, but in the scope of their rebuild, they made the right call taking a shot on Embiid. Nobody behind him in that draft was anywhere close to his talent, you have to take him there.

Embiid's case is basically why the Philly strategy is a joke though. You waste a full season and need EVERYTHING to go right for it to work out.

By EVERYTHING you have to tank perfectly despite NBA players trying to win every game they play (not an easy feat), THAN get lucky in the lottery drawing to land a top 3 pick, THAN hope that draft has a franchise talent available, THAN hope that franchise talent has the requisite work ethic and focus to be a star in the NBA (you already tanked, you have to take him regardless as in Embiid's case), THAN pray he doesn't hit the injury bug.

Tank, luck, hope, pray. That is reality in a 5 year tank-based rebuild.

I understand building through the draft but Philly has taken it to a whole new level, to the point where they refuse to move the franchise forward and build a competitive roster until their tanking bears a LeBron or AD type talent. Too much tank, luck, hope, pray involved and too little meticulous roster construction for my liking.

Too much of their strategy hinges on things outside of their control. Too little effort and emphasis on things they CAN control (like adding talent outside of the draft). It is the equivalent of closing your eyes and praying for a miracle.

I'm hoping this doesn't hijack the thread, but IMO small market teams who want to win championships (not just make money) need to use everything at their disposals. My mantra is, "superstars win championships," and a small market (or mid level cities that don't attract free agents) has to obtain one anyway they can.

ewing
10-20-2015, 08:06 AM
I'm hoping this doesn't hijack the thread, but IMO small market teams who want to win championships (not just make money) need to use everything at their disposals. My mantra is, "superstars win championships," and a small market (or mid level cities that don't attract free agents) has to obtain one anyway they can.


I didn't realize Philly was like Peoria. I thought it was a major city and they couldn't attract free agents b/c they suck. Houston got two superstars outside the draft. Btw plenty of teams like Memphis, Portland, Atl have put out a very good product while playing in smaller markets. Sorry sucking til Bron falls in your lap is just not right to me.

2-ONE-5
10-20-2015, 09:13 AM
we landed Brand and traded for Bynum. After the Bynum experiment failed this current path was the only choice and what all us fans knew was next just maybe not to this extreme.

beasted86
10-20-2015, 09:22 AM
I didn't see the unflattering reports around his work ethic, diet etc. until now.

That said, I think when you draft THAT high and a prospect with THAT much potential, you have to draft based on talent and hope your staff can work out the work ethic and character kinks. I understand the Eddy Curry comparisons, but the same type of stuff can be said for Shaquille O'Neal, Andrew Bynum etc.

I don't get why so many people are afraid to judge the outcomes in hindsight.

Do you think I look back at the 2008 draft and still want to pick Beasley? Sure maybe Riley and his staff did their homework. Maybe he was the consensus 2nd best prospect. But did they do extra homework? Did they hire a personal investigator to get inside info from college and/or high school students and team mates? Could they find a way into his dorm and get traces of weed or other drugs? Could they have dug in and found out how much weed/drugs he regularly used? Forecasted how willing/unwilling he was to give them up completely? Did they really understand what strengths and deficiencies he had in his game in relation to what position he would play at the next level? IE, forecasting his transition to the NBA PF or SF?

I can understand not playing the results when there is absolutely no trace at all of those concerns before the draft and then them becoming a problem after the draft... But when they are known, widely accepted "concerns" on "many" scouting reports before the draft and they actually come to fruition, then that means the concern was justified and the staff didn't do quite enough or rolled the dice the wrong way. Every player has their own concerns and its up to these decision makers to basically see into the future. It's their actual job to know the unknown and dig into every little detail and trace of evidence when so much is at stake at the top of the draft. I can understand a GM not going to those types of lengths later in the draft, but not at the very top.

If they aren't 100% sold on a guy, there is always the choice of trading the pick.

We aren't talking about random freak health concerns/occurrences/personality traits that wasn't on anybody's radar whatsoever and manifested themselves 100% after the draft. We're talking about pre draft concerns that ultimately were proven right.

I also think the value each decision maker puts on their own staff's ability to "mold" a player after the draft is part of the skill of evaluating. Some GMs think they can mold players further than other GMs believe.

beasted86
10-20-2015, 09:34 AM
When your team is in a rebuild, you take that risk by taking the player with the highest upside (by a mile). It's really not even a question. Sucks he's hurt again, and I'm holding out hope he gets healthy for next season, but it was the correct pick at the time. It could still pay off for them at some point down the line.

I understand that I'm asking for a lot from the team management, but its just the way I see it.

It's definitely possible that a team can be coming off multiple losing seasons, have a "build thru the draft" strategy, and the GM still convincing their owner "hey, I don't think there's a worthwhile prospect in this year's pool we need to trade into next year's draft".

I know, I'm being demanding, but I just think this is what these guy's jobs are. Can't sit back with our outside info and say "I would have made the same pick" or "he was the consensus" when our views are limited. We didn't see the actual medical reports or hire X doctor to view/conduct a physical. We didn't do the interviews, etc. They did. They should know the things we didn't.

TheIlladelph16
10-20-2015, 09:45 AM
I understand that I'm asking for a lot from the team management, but its just the way I see it.

It's definitely possible that a team can be coming off multiple losing seasons, have a "build thru the draft" strategy, and the GM still convincing their owner "hey, I don't think there's a worthwhile prospect in this year's pool we need to trade into next year's draft".

I know, I'm being demanding, but I just think this is what these guy's jobs are. Can't sit back with our outside info and say "I would have made the same pick" or "he was the consensus" when our views are limited. We didn't see the actual medical reports or hire X doctor to view/conduct a physical. We didn't do the interviews, etc. They did. They should know the things we didn't.

I guess I'm confused. Embiid was absolutely worth the pick, and the management would have been crucified if they traded out of what was known as the best draft since Lebron's. You can't pass on a player like Embiid's potential in the hopes that the next draft would yield a player as good or pick as high.

I'm ok judging a pick in hindsight if the player fails to live up to expectations on the court, but not for injury when the player hasn't had the opportunity to or to not live up to expectations. They do know things that we don't obviously, and their team told them that the player's talent and potential outweighed his risk of reinjury.

Supposedly, he grew like 2-3 more inches when he was hurt which didn't help the healing and would likely be hard to predict as well.

Ty22Mitchell
10-20-2015, 09:54 AM
I didn't realize Philly was like Peoria. I thought it was a major city and they couldn't attract free agents b/c they suck. Houston got two superstars outside the draft. Btw plenty of teams like Memphis, Portland, Atl have put out a very good product while playing in smaller markets. Sorry sucking til Bron falls in your lap is just not right to me.

You make great points. I wasn't trying to disrespect the great city of Philadelphia, but I feel there are 3 cities that attract players; LA, Chi, NYC, (maybe MIA). After that, IMO, it boils down how good a team is, what they can offer a guy, etc. The teams you listed are definitely good teams, but none of those teams have or had any great chance of winning a championship. Houston has a chance, but at best they're the 3rd team out west. Those teams wull certainly make money, but they're not going to win championships.

I do agree that sucking for 10 years to get Bron is a high price though. How much time would you allow Hinke if you owned Philly?

ewing
10-20-2015, 10:00 AM
You make great points. I wasn't trying to disrespect the great city of Philadelphia, but I feel there are 3 cities that attract players; LA, Chi, NYC, (maybe MIA). After that, IMO, it boils down how good a team is, what they can offer a guy, etc. The teams you listed are definitely good teams, but none of those teams have or had any great chance of winning a championship. Houston has a chance, but at best they're the 3rd team out west. Those teams wull certainly make money, but they're not going to win championships.

I do agree that sucking for 10 years to get Bron is a high price though. How much time would you allow Hinke if you owned Philly?


I'd fire him today. I wasn't trolling when i said i think what they are doing is an embarrassment to the league. Once he showed that he was not willing to take any calculated risks and was just looking to tank until cant miss talent fell in his lap i lost respect for him

2-ONE-5
10-20-2015, 10:07 AM
I don't get why so many people are afraid to judge the outcomes in hindsight.

Do you think I look back at the 2008 draft and still want to pick Beasley? Sure maybe Riley and his staff did their homework. Maybe he was the consensus 2nd best prospect. But did they do extra homework? Did they hire a personal investigator to get inside info from college and/or high school students and team mates? Could they find a way into his dorm and get traces of weed or other drugs? Could they have dug in and found out how much weed/drugs he regularly used? Forecasted how willing/unwilling he was to give them up completely? Did they really understand what strengths and deficiencies he had in his game in relation to what position he would play at the next level? IE, forecasting his transition to the NBA PF or SF?

I can understand not playing the results when there is absolutely no trace at all of those concerns before the draft and then them becoming a problem after the draft... But when they are known, widely accepted "concerns" on "many" scouting reports before the draft and they actually come to fruition, then that means the concern was justified and the staff didn't do quite enough or rolled the dice the wrong way. Every player has their own concerns and its up to these decision makers to basically see into the future. It's their actual job to know the unknown and dig into every little detail and trace of evidence when so much is at stake at the top of the draft. I can understand a GM not going to those types of lengths later in the draft, but not at the very top.

If they aren't 100% sold on a guy, there is always the choice of trading the pick.

We aren't talking about random freak health concerns/occurrences/personality traits that wasn't on anybody's radar whatsoever and manifested themselves 100% after the draft. We're talking about pre draft concerns that ultimately were proven right.

I also think the value each decision maker puts on their own staff's ability to "mold" a player after the draft is part of the skill of evaluating. Some GMs think they can mold players further than other GMs believe.


my lord please tell me this isnt serious

Scoots
10-20-2015, 10:11 AM
we landed Brand and traded for Bynum. After the Bynum experiment failed this current path was the only choice and what all us fans knew was next just maybe not to this extreme.

Uh ... no. The team could have gone the traditional rebuild route. I'm not judging because I understand the plan, but in no way was this the only choice.

2-ONE-5
10-20-2015, 10:15 AM
You make great points. I wasn't trying to disrespect the great city of Philadelphia, but I feel there are 3 cities that attract players; LA, Chi, NYC, (maybe MIA). After that, IMO, it boils down how good a team is, what they can offer a guy, etc. The teams you listed are definitely good teams, but none of those teams have or had any great chance of winning a championship. Houston has a chance, but at best they're the 3rd team out west. Those teams wull certainly make money, but they're not going to win championships.

I do agree that sucking for 10 years to get Bron is a high price though. How much time would you allow Hinke if you owned Philly?

i dont think the big markets attract like the old days. Who have any of those teams signed recently that are high impact players? Bulls added an aging Gasol who was a good fit with the team, NY traded for Melo and thats it and its been a disaster most years since, and had James not been besties with Wade he prob never goes to Miami (Bosh still might), and Lakers had the Howard fiasco.

2-ONE-5
10-20-2015, 10:17 AM
Uh ... no. The team could have gone the traditional rebuild route. I'm not judging because I understand the plan, but in no way was this the only choice.

we were left with little cap space and little to no assets. A full rebuild is exactly what I wanted if the Bynum deal didnt work, it was necessary to get out of mediocrity.

JAZZNC
10-20-2015, 01:03 PM
we were left with little cap space and little to no assets. A full rebuild is exactly what I wanted if the Bynum deal didnt work, it was necessary to get out of mediocrity.
And it has certainly gotten you out of mediocrity....now you are the biggest joke of a franchise in the NBA.

And the Embiid pick was just horrible. I am sorry but a big man with BOTH foot and back issues at 18..... picking that guy is just dumb. You can talk about the upside all you want, it was a stupid pick. The writing was already on the wall that he was never gonna come close to playing a full season in the NBA. Add in that he is quite obviously an idiot (which somebody should have realized before drafting the guy) it was a terrible pick. I mean seriously name me one guy that size with foot AND back problems and the problems got better??

MILLERHIGHLIFE
10-20-2015, 01:23 PM
i dont think the big markets attract like the old days. Who have any of those teams signed recently that are high impact players? Bulls added an aging Gasol who was a good fit with the team, NY traded for Melo and thats it and its been a disaster most years since, and had James not been besties with Wade he prob never goes to Miami (Bosh still might), and Lakers had the Howard fiasco.

I agree that if it wasn't for Wade luring in LeBron Miami hasn't been a hotspot. Last big name was Zo they traded Glen Rice to get him. Before that they were bottom of the barrel. Knicks don't attract much either. As for Bulls yeah they landed Gasol but Bulls been playoff team for a while now. But prior to that remember when they had two max cap spots way back when and only landed Ron Mercer and missed out on Grant Hill and TMAC. Knicks landed guys this summer but they had tons of capspace. But they weren't their first choice free agents either. I think guys actually go where they think they can win now. So Lakers been down in the dumps not luring anything other then trash heap guys waiver wire like Boozer and Lin.

Tony_Starks
10-20-2015, 01:23 PM
You make great points. I wasn't trying to disrespect the great city of Philadelphia, but I feel there are 3 cities that attract players; LA, Chi, NYC, (maybe MIA). After that, IMO, it boils down how good a team is, what they can offer a guy, etc. The teams you listed are definitely good teams, but none of those teams have or had any great chance of winning a championship. Houston has a chance, but at best they're the 3rd team out west. Those teams wull certainly make money, but they're not going to win championships.

I do agree that sucking for 10 years to get Bron is a high price though. How much time would you allow Hinke if you owned Philly?


I'd fire him today. I wasn't trolling when i said i think what they are doing is an embarrassment to the league. Once he showed that he was not willing to take any calculated risks and was just looking to tank until cant miss talent fell in his lap i lost respect for him

pretty much.

I feel for the Philly fans that aren't in denial about this disgrace. They deserve better than to be a laughing stock in the hopes of one day lucking up on a once in a generation talent.

Scoots
10-20-2015, 01:40 PM
we were left with little cap space and little to no assets. A full rebuild is exactly what I wanted if the Bynum deal didnt work, it was necessary to get out of mediocrity.

I just meant that the team didn't HAVE to do it the way they did. To the extreme that they did. There was no quick solution, but not team has ever leveraged their cap and roster space the way the 76ers have over the last few years, so it's possible to rebuild other ways.

The Warriors were "rebuilding" for nearly 20 years before it finally worked so I totally understand the desire to get really bad for a few years in the hopes of wiping out all of the sins of the recent past and coming out with the best possible chance to build a young talented team to contend for many years.

2-ONE-5
10-20-2015, 01:48 PM
And it has certainly gotten you out of mediocrity....now you are the biggest joke of a franchise in the NBA.

And the Embiid pick was just horrible. I am sorry but a big man with BOTH foot and back issues at 18..... picking that guy is just dumb. You can talk about the upside all you want, it was a stupid pick. The writing was already on the wall that he was never gonna come close to playing a full season in the NBA. Add in that he is quite obviously an idiot (which somebody should have realized before drafting the guy) it was a terrible pick. I mean seriously name me one guy that size with foot AND back problems and the problems got better??

biggest joke yet havent finished last in either season of tanking, interesting. Rather blow it up and rebuild from scratch then continue to be a 7-10 seed going nowhere kind of like where Utah and PHX are stuck right now.

As for Embiid his back isnt even an issue anymore, he recovered normal and as far as i know nothing has went wrong with it so thats irrelevant. It was the right pick no matter how you wanna look at it. I mean look at who went right after him, we arent losing sleep over these guys for a number of different reasons and we did end up with Stauskus who went 8th (?) in that draft.

2-ONE-5
10-20-2015, 01:52 PM
I just meant that the team didn't HAVE to do it the way they did. To the extreme that they did. There was no quick solution, but not team has ever leveraged their cap and roster space the way the 76ers have over the last few years, so it's possible to rebuild other ways.

The Warriors were "rebuilding" for nearly 20 years before it finally worked so I totally understand the desire to get really bad for a few years in the hopes of wiping out all of the sins of the recent past and coming out with the best possible chance to build a young talented team to contend for many years.

well yea i dont disagree, i did say i didnt expect the team to go this this extreme but its still better than singing mediocre vets to bad deals and trying to squeak out a few wins. A team built around Holiday, Young, Hawes, Turner, Iggy was never going to improve upon the season they had the year before and would have tied up way too mcuh cap for what they are worth.

We still came away with a top 10 player form that draft and were lucky enough to land Okafor this year so that takes the sting out of the possibility of losing Embiid if he never recovers (i think he will to some extent anyway)

Scoots
10-20-2015, 02:02 PM
I really thought Okafor was under-rated coming into the draft. He's not likely to ever be an elite defender, but he may well be the best low post scorer in the NBA as a rookie. It's not the trend to build a team that way right now but when you've got a talent like Okafor your team will always have an option to get points and that is incredibly valuable.

I still wonder when Hinkie will start to value guards :)

2-ONE-5
10-20-2015, 02:33 PM
ha we are still waiting to find out when he values a point guard. he at least went out and got Staus at the 2. We tried to bring back Ish Smith who was really solid for us, like surprisingly solid but he turned down our offer to go be a third guard in DC. I think for now he wants to see how Wroten develops at the point even though he is best as 6th man.

beasted86
10-20-2015, 02:33 PM
my lord please tell me this isnt serious

Of course I'm serious when we're talking about handing $5M a year to a 19 year old which could potentially make or break my $500M+ dollar business.

beasted86
10-20-2015, 02:38 PM
well yea i dont disagree, i did say i didnt expect the team to go this this extreme but its still better than singing mediocre vets to bad deals and trying to squeak out a few wins. A team built around Holiday, Young, Hawes, Turner, Iggy was never going to improve upon the season they had the year before and would have tied up way too mcuh cap for what they are worth.

We still came away with a top 10 player form that draft and were lucky enough to land Okafor this year so that takes the sting out of the possibility of losing Embiid if he never recovers (i think he will to some extent anyway)
Being totally honest with you. A team of Holiday, Turner, Iguodala, Young, and Vucevic would be a top 4 seed right now in the East with any GM with half a brain able to fill the bench, and a solid coach like Collins.

2-ONE-5
10-20-2015, 03:16 PM
Vuc wouldnt of developed the was he has under the Collins though, im sure of that. If you believe Bynum can get on the court and be the beast he was just 2 years prior you make that trade every time. I also doubt that team is top 4 bcuz they just didnt fit together good enough when Jrue, Iggy, and Turner all play their best with the ball in their hand. Not to mention Iggy has aged some and regressed on O, Turner just isnt really any good, and Jrue has been plagued with foot probs since the trade.

2-ONE-5
10-20-2015, 03:17 PM
Of course I'm serious when we're talking about handing $5M a year to a 19 year old which could potentially make or break my $500M+ dollar business.

yea ummmm most of what you said is either illegal or against the CBA im sure. Also ill go out on a limb and see none of that has ever been done in NBA history nor will it ever.

JAZZNC
10-20-2015, 03:33 PM
biggest joke yet havent finished last in either season of tanking, interesting. Rather blow it up and rebuild from scratch then continue to be a 7-10 seed going nowhere kind of like where Utah and PHX are stuck right now.

As for Embiid his back isnt even an issue anymore, he recovered normal and as far as i know nothing has went wrong with it so thats irrelevant. It was the right pick no matter how you wanna look at it. I mean look at who went right after him, we arent losing sleep over these guys for a number of different reasons and we did end up with Stauskus who went 8th (?) in that draft.

Obviously you ha e paid zero attention to the rebuild in Utah, but I will let that slide because nobody pays attention to Utah. And yes, you guys are a joke of a team. No you didn't finish dead last the last two years but overall have the worst combined record over those two years so yes, for the past two seasons you have been the biggest joke in the NBA and the worst part is the FO wants that and people of your ilk are cool with it. Joke's on you.

And yes I'm sure Embiid hasn't reinjured his back because HE HASN'T BEEN PLAYING BASKETBALL! How is a back injury to a big man irrelevant? That is just blind homerism. And you never answered my question about big men with foot and back problems....when has a big ever had those kinda problems and had them get better as he got older? Quit talking about upside and look at the results. Two years and zero games played. How couldn't you have made a better pick?

ewing
10-20-2015, 03:37 PM
biggest joke yet havent finished last in either season of tanking, interesting. Rather blow it up and rebuild from scratch then continue to be a 7-10 seed going nowhere kind of like where Utah and PHX are stuck right now.

As for Embiid his back isnt even an issue anymore, he recovered normal and as far as i know nothing has went wrong with it so thats irrelevant. It was the right pick no matter how you wanna look at it. I mean look at who went right after him, we arent losing sleep over these guys for a number of different reasons and we did end up with Stauskus who went 8th (?) in that draft.


They Jazz aren't stuck they are actually trying to get better. They young have some very talented pieces and they don't have a lot invested. The They were by far the best defensive team in the NBA in the 2nd 1/2 of the season last year and should take another step forward this year. I think the Jazz have a shot at building something really nice

ewing
10-20-2015, 03:40 PM
I really thought Okafor was under-rated coming into the draft. He's not likely to ever be an elite defender, but he may well be the best low post scorer in the NBA as a rookie. It's not the trend to build a team that way right now but when you've got a talent like Okafor your team will always have an option to get points and that is incredibly valuable.

I still wonder when Hinkie will start to value guards :)


I agree on Okafor. I definitely see being the best rookie in the NBA this year. I think he had some work to do on his body if he was going to be a truly elite NBA player but he definitely has the tools.

ewing
10-20-2015, 03:50 PM
Obviously you ha e paid zero attention to the rebuild in Utah, but I will let that slide because nobody pays attention to Utah. And yes, you guys are a joke of a team.

And yes I'm sure Embiid hasn't reinjured his back because HE HASN'T BEEN PLAYING BASKETBALL! How is a back injury to a big man irrelevant? That is just blind homerism. And you never answered my question about big men with foot and back problems....when has a big ever had those kinda problems and had them get better as he got older? Quit talking about upside and look at the results. Two years and zero games played. How couldn't you have made a better pick?


yeah i just got to your post. I actually like your team. Gordon has always been a favorite on mine and now so is Gobert. I am not as big a Favors fan and am surprised you guys more or less stood pat this off season. I love Hayward and Gobert as foundation pieces and will be interested to see where this team goes. I would be shocked if we hear your name a lot at the trade deadline

2-ONE-5
10-20-2015, 04:31 PM
They Jazz aren't stuck they are actually trying to get better. They young have some very talented pieces and they don't have a lot invested. The They were by far the best defensive team in the NBA in the 2nd 1/2 of the season last year and should take another step forward this year. I think the Jazz have a shot at building something really nice

i never said the Jazz werent trying to get better but that team has limited upside.

2-ONE-5
10-20-2015, 04:33 PM
Obviously you ha e paid zero attention to the rebuild in Utah, but I will let that slide because nobody pays attention to Utah. And yes, you guys are a joke of a team. No you didn't finish dead last the last two years but overall have the worst combined record over those two years so yes, for the past two seasons you have been the biggest joke in the NBA and the worst part is the FO wants that and people of your ilk are cool with it. Joke's on you.

And yes I'm sure Embiid hasn't reinjured his back because HE HASN'T BEEN PLAYING BASKETBALL! How is a back injury to a big man irrelevant? That is just blind homerism. And you never answered my question about big men with foot and back problems....when has a big ever had those kinda problems and had them get better as he got older? Quit talking about upside and look at the results. Two years and zero games played. How couldn't you have made a better pick?

but Embiids career isnt over, it hasnt started and its still TBD. I dont care if we wait 5 years and he is playing 70% of games. Again who should we have took? It was a medicore class after the top 3

ewing
10-20-2015, 04:36 PM
i never said the Jazz werent trying to get better but that team has limited upside.


You said they were stuck. WhY? The team is super young and their most impactful players are Gobert and Gordon. One is just entering his prime and other hasn't yet. They are young, they have assets, and they are under the cap. I don't know who they are going to put around their foundational players but they have some good ones and they will have an opportunity to build around them. Their is no way of knowing what the Jazz's ceiling is right now, it an incomplete team but I think they are in a pretty good spot

2-ONE-5
10-20-2015, 05:38 PM
theyre not in a terrible spot but i dont think you can count on that core doing anything substantial and having late lotto picks year after year going forward wont help.

Vinylman
10-20-2015, 05:41 PM
You said they were stuck. WhY? The team is super young and their most impactful players are Gobert and Gordon. One is just entering his prime and other hasn't yet. They are young, they have assets, and they are under the cap. I don't know who they are going to put around their foundational players but they have some good ones and they will have an opportunity to build around them. Their is no way of knowing what the Jazz's ceiling is right now, it an incomplete team but I think they are in a pretty good spot

meh... they will be lucky to make the playoffs in the next 4 years...

impossible to add FA's and will be drafting mid-first for the foreseeable future

a couple of bright spots doesn't make their situation measurably better than the sixers. In fact if i had to choose between the two i would take Philly every time.

Scoots
10-20-2015, 07:39 PM
Obviously you ha e paid zero attention to the rebuild in Utah, but I will let that slide because nobody pays attention to Utah. And yes, you guys are a joke of a team. No you didn't finish dead last the last two years but overall have the worst combined record over those two years so yes, for the past two seasons you have been the biggest joke in the NBA and the worst part is the FO wants that and people of your ilk are cool with it. Joke's on you.

And yes I'm sure Embiid hasn't reinjured his back because HE HASN'T BEEN PLAYING BASKETBALL! How is a back injury to a big man irrelevant? That is just blind homerism. And you never answered my question about big men with foot and back problems....when has a big ever had those kinda problems and had them get better as he got older? Quit talking about upside and look at the results. Two years and zero games played. How couldn't you have made a better pick?

I have paid attention to Utah's rebuild ... if for no other reason than the Jazz' rebuild helped the Warriors win a title. I'm also a big Sloan and Stockton fan. The Jazz were pretty terrible 2 years ago and for half of last year ... they just finally woke up to the terribleness of certain players :)

There are bigs who have back/foot issues that get better with age because they learn exercises and equipment and routines to manage their bodies better and usually they are starting out very young and getting that big often comes with joint and muscle pains, Anthony Davis had back pains as a rookie but it's not chronic now ... (he's not a big, but Steph Curry still has the same weak ankles but by training and equipment he has managed the issue to make it a non-issue) ... it has happened ... but it is WAY more common for big men with problems with their wheels to get worse and worse.

Mave1002
10-20-2015, 10:50 PM
Ive always wanted my team to inquire about what it would take for the sixers to let him go.... Im guessing that they would ultimately trade him for almost nothing. He'd be a perfect fit for a team like the Lakers who's going on a full re-build.

Another team which I believe should take a peek: The Golden State Warriors. With Andrew Bogut on his way out in a season or two, Joel Embiid will be a low risk-extremely high reward type of player. I still wouldnt give up on him.

Lakers

Embiid-Upshaw-Black
Randle-Nance Jr.
???
Clarkson
Russell

Warriors

Embiid-Ezeli
Green-Speights
Barnes-Iggy-Looney
Klay-Rush
Steph-Livingston

Mave1002
10-20-2015, 10:53 PM
Ive always wanted my team to inquire about what it would take for the sixers to let him go.... Im guessing that they would ultimately trade him for almost nothing. He'd be a perfect fit for a team like the Lakers who's going on a full re-build.

Another team which I believe should take a peek: The Golden State Warriors. With Andrew Bogut on his way out in a season or two, Joel Embiid will be a low risk-extremely high reward type of player. I still wouldnt give up on him.

Lakers

Embiid-Upshaw-Black
Randle-Nance Jr.
???
Clarkson
Russell

Warriors

Embiid-Ezeli
Green-Speights
Barnes-Iggy-Looney
Klay-Rush
Steph-Livingston

My personal wish though... is that he eventually lands in New Orleans. Thatd be like David Robinson-Tim Duncan all over again.

Ty22Mitchell
10-21-2015, 06:49 AM
i dont think the big markets attract like the old days. Who have any of those teams signed recently that are high impact players? Bulls added an aging Gasol who was a good fit with the team, NY traded for Melo and thats it and its been a disaster most years since, and had James not been besties with Wade he prob never goes to Miami (Bosh still might), and Lakers had the Howard fiasco.

You may be convincing me, lol. I just did a little research to see what free agents have signed where in the last few years (http://hoopshabit.com/2014/12/02/nba-top-25-free-agent-signings-time/26/), and you may have a point. LBJ in Miami, Shaq LA, Rodman in the CHI. I'd be interested to see what is what championship teams over the last 25 years had one of their top 2/3 players be a free agent signing.

KnicksorBust
10-21-2015, 07:51 AM
My personal wish though... is that he eventually lands in New Orleans. Thatd be like David Robinson-Tim Duncan all over again.

So Philly has to trade him because he will never get healthy but once he goes to another team he is instantly a starting center and forms a d-rob/duncan duo. Sounds about right PSD. :)

On another note, still love the Philly re-build. It is near impossible to do what OKC did and hit on every pick but Noel is a strong defender, Okafor is an NBA starter and potential go-to option, and Covington is clearly a floor spacer. Find an unhappy star PG (Damian Lillard?) and that team would become a real threat with a huge upside for the future.

2-ONE-5
10-21-2015, 08:30 AM
Ive always wanted my team to inquire about what it would take for the sixers to let him go.... Im guessing that they would ultimately trade him for almost nothing. He'd be a perfect fit for a team like the Lakers who's going on a full re-build.

Another team which I believe should take a peek: The Golden State Warriors. With Andrew Bogut on his way out in a season or two, Joel Embiid will be a low risk-extremely high reward type of player. I still wouldnt give up on him.

Lakers

Embiid-Upshaw-Black
Randle-Nance Jr.
???
Clarkson
Russell

Warriors

Embiid-Ezeli
Green-Speights
Barnes-Iggy-Looney
Klay-Rush
Steph-Livingston

youre out of your mind if you think we would trade him for nothing. i cant say what it would be for but i wouldnt count on him being traded any time soon.

Ty22Mitchell
10-21-2015, 08:41 AM
Hey can anyone list a couple of championship teams that purposely tanked (accepted as likely by the vast majority of people) to get their superstar. I believe the Spurs did so to get Duncan, but is there anyone else? Thanks.

Scoots
10-21-2015, 10:29 AM
My personal wish though... is that he eventually lands in New Orleans. Thatd be like David Robinson-Tim Duncan all over again.

You just replied to yourself, quoting yourself, in the very next post. You know there is an edit button right?

I would happily trade the Warriors next 1st round pick to the 76ers for Embiid.

Scoots
10-21-2015, 10:30 AM
Hey can anyone list a couple of championship teams that purposely tanked (accepted as likely by the vast majority of people) to get their superstar. I believe the Spurs did so to get Duncan, but is there anyone else? Thanks.

The Cavs tanked to get LeBron and won an Eastern Conference Championship and made it to the finals. I'm not sure if the Cavs win a title soon it would count because now LeBron is a free agent acquisition.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
10-21-2015, 12:35 PM
Ive always wanted my team to inquire about what it would take for the sixers to let him go.... Im guessing that they would ultimately trade him for almost nothing. He'd be a perfect fit for a team like the Lakers who's going on a full re-build.

Another team which I believe should take a peek: The Golden State Warriors. With Andrew Bogut on his way out in a season or two, Joel Embiid will be a low risk-extremely high reward type of player. I still wouldnt give up on him.

Lakers

Embiid-Upshaw-Black
Randle-Nance Jr.
???
Clarkson
Russell

Warriors

Embiid-Ezeli
Green-Speights
Barnes-Iggy-Looney
Klay-Rush
Steph-Livingston

76ers GM would laugh and hang up the phone.

slashsnake
10-21-2015, 01:04 PM
Hey can anyone list a couple of championship teams that purposely tanked (accepted as likely by the vast majority of people) to get their superstar. I believe the Spurs did so to get Duncan, but is there anyone else? Thanks.

The Eddie Jones/Caron Butler tank season in Miami to get them Wade? That one was kind of the Pat Riley throwing in the towel on coaching season. Started bad, but not horrible, then just tanked after 30 or so games.

2-ONE-5
10-21-2015, 01:33 PM
Celtics tanked the year before the Big 3 i think it was? To get the highest pick possible to make a deal with. I might be off on the year though.

Gibby23
10-21-2015, 02:49 PM
Celtics tanked the year before the Big 3 i think it was? To get the highest pick possible to make a deal with. I might be off on the year though.

But they had Pierce. KG wasn't going to accept the trade if they didn't already have Pierce and added Allen.

2-ONE-5
10-21-2015, 03:49 PM
But they had Pierce. KG wasn't going to accept the trade if they didn't already have Pierce and added Allen.

well yea but that #5 pick was used to trade for Allen...

They still actively tanked for the pick, I remember some games Pierce being on the bench in the final mins of close games sometimes

slashsnake
10-21-2015, 06:09 PM
well yea but that #5 pick was used to trade for Allen...

They still actively tanked for the pick, I remember some games Pierce being on the bench in the final mins of close games sometimes

Yeah I'd call that one ok. The foot stress or whatever that had him out during that big losing streak (wasn't a fracture, I can't remember what term the Celtics used for it). Then he came back and they were almost a .500 team for a month, so they sat him the last 10 or so games of the year.

PhillySportFan
10-21-2015, 07:31 PM
So Philly has to trade him because he will never get healthy but once he goes to another team he is instantly a starting center and forms a d-rob/duncan duo. Sounds about right PSD. :)

On another note, still love the Philly re-build. It is near impossible to do what OKC did and hit on every pick but Noel is a strong defender, Okafor is an NBA starter and potential go-to option, and Covington is clearly a floor spacer. Find an unhappy star PG (Damian Lillard?) and that team would become a real threat with a huge upside for the future.

Yeah, that's the optimistic approach to most Sixers fans and one that's pretty reasonable. You're so right with your first comment, everyone saying low risk/high reward, lol. Regardless of the injuries Hinkie ain't trading him for nothing, that's for sure.Two 2nd's won't do the trick, lol.