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View Full Version : Current Top-20 Players (#15)



Shammyguy3
09-23-2015, 09:54 PM
Choose from the poll options and debate who the current Top 20 best players in the NBA are. This should not be based on who had the best season last year, but rather who you would choose for a team in order to win right now.

Additional options will be added as we go along based on who will realistically receive votes at that level (or if players are requested in the thread).


1. Lebron (73% of the vote)
2. Durant (55% of the vote)
3. Curry (55% of the vote)
4. Davis (50% of the vote)
5. Harden (57% of the vote)
6. Paul (52% of the vote)
7. Westbrook (82% of the vote)
8. Griffin (59% of the vote)
9. Cousins (29% of the vote)
10. Leonard (39% of the vote)
11. Gasol (41% of the vote)
12. Melo (28% of the vote)
13. Butler (39% of the vote)
14. Wall (33% of the vote)
15. ?

Raps18-19 Champ
09-23-2015, 11:00 PM
Andrew Wiggins.

mrblisterdundee
09-23-2015, 11:08 PM
Some injuries and regressions come into play, but Aldridge is the best on the ballot right now.

Allphakenny1
09-24-2015, 01:24 AM
Duncan or Aldridge here! Would be fine with Duncan, but it looks like it is Wade or Aldridge is the vote, so my vote is equally as much against Wade as it is for Aldridge here.

kdspurman
09-24-2015, 10:11 AM
Curious to hear some thoughts on Wade from the voters. They're votin', just not talking lol

Slug3
09-24-2015, 10:13 AM
Curious to hear some thoughts on Wade from the voters. They're votin', just not talking lol

As a Heat fan, I have Aldridge here.

nycericanguy
09-24-2015, 10:15 AM
PSD is way too quick to crown young players as top 10.

Khawi Leonard just looks weird up there as a top 10 player.

Great role player, sure... but here's a guy who has never played more than 66 games in a season, or more than 31mpg, or scored more than 16ppg, never even made an all star team, and yet he is now a top 10 player and above LMA, Melo, Gasol, Duncan, Wall, Butler...etc...?

Makes no sense, he's a great role player in a great situation. But if you asked him to carry a team, play 75+ games, play 36+mpg...etc... can he handle that? Would his defense not take a serious hit? Would his efficiency be the same?

Meanwhile you have a stat padder like DMC as #9 above some really great players even though he can't even get his team to 30 wins? He's now the best C in the game? Let me tell you, Ewing, Shaq, Hakeem, D-Rob, Duncan, even lower tier guys like Mourning, & Dwight... those guys ALWAYS had their teams extremely competitive and in the playoffs... You're not the best C in the game if you can't even lead your team to 30 wins or shoot above 46%...sorry. Just like Love was never a top 5 player like most here ranked him, despite his awesome numbers at the time.

This list is REALLY bad and all over the place... I guess that's why no one is even voting this year. Anyway rant over...

kdspurman
09-24-2015, 11:14 AM
As a Heat fan, I have Aldridge here.

Yea, I was leaning LMA slightly over TD but idk really just yet. Been back & forth on the 2.

Re: my comment, it's fine to vote for whoever, it just seems like the same folks been voting for Wade but aren't making comments/debates about it. That's not fun :)

Tony_Starks
09-24-2015, 11:59 AM
AD is already 4, Cousins barely cracks 9, and Aldridge MIGHT get 15?

Jesus H Christ.

Shammyguy3
09-24-2015, 12:33 PM
AD is already 4, Cousins barely cracks 9, and Aldridge MIGHT get 15?

Jesus H Christ.

You complain quite a bit but never give reasoning for why these players shouldn't be ranked this highly.

Tony_Starks
09-24-2015, 01:07 PM
AD is already 4, Cousins barely cracks 9, and Aldridge MIGHT get 15?

Jesus H Christ.

You complain quite a bit but never give reasoning for why these players shouldn't be ranked this highly.


Aldridge and Cousins have both already proven they can continue to play at an elite level as the focal point of the offense for years, LMA to the point where took a team predicted to not even make the playoffs to the 2nd round of the playoffs and then the 1st round last year on a injured hand. AD had injury issues early, after last season we are now just about to see what happens when he gets the "superstar" treatment all year long.

He's a superb talent but he's being put into a elite category too soon.

MILLERHIGHLIFE
09-24-2015, 02:30 PM
I picked Timmy.

tredigs
09-24-2015, 02:56 PM
Aldridge and Cousins have both already proven they can continue to play at an elite level as the focal point of the offense for years, LMA to the point where took a team predicted to not even make the playoffs to the 2nd round of the playoffs and then the 1st round last year on a injured hand. AD had injury issues early, after last season we are now just about to see what happens when he gets the "superstar" treatment all year long.

He's a superb talent but he's being put into a elite category too soon.
LMA + Cousins both have issues finishing still, and LMA is just not a good defender with Cousins arguably/maybe just getting there. As a big, that's a pretty big hit. Lamarcus is not a good playmaker, either. Numbers aside, the more you watch him the more you know he's definitely not a top 10 player.

AD is a freak. He's in his third season and has now lead the league in blocks back to back years as a super efficient ~25/10 player who took the team on his back to the playoffs in a ridiculously talent-rich conference. I know you're not a fan of any advanced stats or even PER, but a #1 PER of 30.8 is not a fluke. The only players who have ever posted a single season PER above that threshold are named Lebron James, Wilt Chamberlain and Michael Jordan.

Chronz
09-24-2015, 03:00 PM
Agreed, its no fluke. What exactly does getting the superstar treatment do to a player and do we have any examples of this alleged phenomena Tony?

Tony_Starks
09-24-2015, 03:46 PM
Allegedly getting the "superstar" treatment is the difference between a team conceding a certain player is going to get his numbers and a team making a specific gameplan to stop YOU night in, night out.

From Tonys amateur observation it would appear that AD has officially arrived to the point where you're treating him like a young KG/Duncan in his prime on a nightly. Look at the love he gets on this site for example.

I agree his defense is what it is, there's no answer for that. I'd still like to see what happens when those double teams start coming fast now. Will he step his passing game up like a Blake Griffin? He's adding 3point range to the arsenal, how's that going to work out? Can his body hold up under the demand of being "the man?"

It's far from a given that you can just pencil in his usual numbers this year without improvement......

tredigs
09-24-2015, 04:14 PM
Well, his durability is definitely an issue and it's what keeps him out of the top 3 for myself (tho' Durant's is an issue now too), but if you don't think teams are already gameplanning for AD, I don't know what to tell you. He went against a fully pre-planned gameplan + the toughest defensive frontcourt in the NBA in the 1st round between Draymond/Bogut (a tougher task than Demarcus for one has ever faced), and he still crushed us. 32/11/2 + 3 blocks. The points and blocks being the most of any player in the playoffs. GSW draped/pounded him all series and what did he do? Got to the line 9 times a game and hit them at a 89% clip... yes, the best big in the league hits FT's at a ~89% clip when the pressure is at its peak. That's insane. His D isn't what Tim or KG were at, but the potential is there and he's clearly the real thing.

Chronz
09-24-2015, 04:37 PM
Allegedly getting the "superstar" treatment is the difference between a team conceding a certain player is going to get his numbers and a team making a specific gameplan to stop YOU night in, night out.

From Tonys amateur observation it would appear that AD has officially arrived to the point where you're treating him like a young KG/Duncan in his prime on a nightly. Look at the love he gets on this site for example.

I agree his defense is what it is, there's no answer for that. I'd still like to see what happens when those double teams start coming fast now. Will he step his passing game up like a Blake Griffin? He's adding 3point range to the arsenal, how's that going to work out? Can his body hold up under the demand of being "the man?"

It's far from a given that you can just pencil in his usual numbers this year without improvement......

So, again, any examples of this phenomena? Is he suppose to suddenly revert to a highly inferior level of production/impact? Lets say he fails, somehow, what exactly are you expecting him to look like? Is he suddenly going to stop being the best outlet option in the game? How likely is it that players with his youth/potential get worse with age? Any examples of the "superstar treatment" stunting a players growth/impact?

His defense is actually the weakest part of his game I think. Thats bound to improve, but his offense basically consists of quick hitting action, how do you double that? And if they are going to swarm him even more somehow, isnt that the purpose of a superstar, to attract that attention? So if hes getting the superstar treatment, what ever that means, doesn't that justify the ranking you're arguing against? Doesn't getting that treatment make him a superstar?

Not really sure I understand your BG example, hes been getting doubled since year 2 IMO and has gradually improved his entire game (while declining in other aspects) but thats expected, AD has taken greater leaps in a shorter amount of time. I doubt he will ever be a great passer like BG but he wasn't that last year.

I hope he doesn't get 3pt range but its crazy how quickly hes emerged as a jumpshooter, it took BG FOREVER just to be an average mid range shooter and hes often left open anyways.


Funny you mentioned prime Duncan/KG, well, would you be getting mad if people knew they were already on that level at a young age or did we have to wait for this "Superstar treatment" from them too? Even though they just continued improving.

As for this gem: It's far from a given that you can just pencil in his usual numbers this year without improvement......

Basketball statistics remain among the most consistent year to year, player to player, more than any other sport, so while its far from a given, its even further removed to assume this phenomena has ever actually mattered when discussing the games best. Its FAR more likely he continues to enhance his impact even if his statistics stagnate or decline abit. So long as he remains one of the best producers, his intangible impact will only improve with this added attention.

Chronz
09-24-2015, 04:38 PM
PS, I didn't vote for AD, I think hes abit overrated due to his hellish statistics, middling defense and overall lack of playmaking but I dont know how far much lower you would put him.

valade16
09-24-2015, 05:04 PM
As an unabashed Portland fan AD is better than Aldridge and it's really not close.

nycericanguy
09-24-2015, 05:14 PM
AD is a monster who at 22 already led a team with Tyreke Evans as the 2nd best player to a playoff spot out west and 45 wins. How can anyone seriously dispute his status?

DMC did nothing with Evans in SAC... he's not even in the same conversation as AD. DMC is a high usage, low %, high TO, one way stat padder with a poor attitude to boot.

Raps18-19 Champ
09-24-2015, 07:37 PM
Just disregard Heat fan votes.

Sadds The Gr8
09-25-2015, 01:26 AM
As an unabashed Portland fan AD is better than Aldridge and it's really not close.

how does the majority of portland feel about LMA? do they hate him now?

valade16
09-25-2015, 09:40 AM
how does the majority of portland feel about LMA? do they hate him now?

It changes by the day. One day we'll rage at him but the next we'll be understanding :laugh2: . I don't think the impact will really set in until the season starts.

Slug3
09-25-2015, 10:07 AM
Just disregard Heat fan votes.

Woooo buddy, then that would make my Aldridge vote not count.

FlashBolt
09-26-2015, 12:29 AM
Allegedly getting the "superstar" treatment is the difference between a team conceding a certain player is going to get his numbers and a team making a specific gameplan to stop YOU night in, night out.

From Tonys amateur observation it would appear that AD has officially arrived to the point where you're treating him like a young KG/Duncan in his prime on a nightly. Look at the love he gets on this site for example.

I agree his defense is what it is, there's no answer for that. I'd still like to see what happens when those double teams start coming fast now. Will he step his passing game up like a Blake Griffin? He's adding 3point range to the arsenal, how's that going to work out? Can his body hold up under the demand of being "the man?"

It's far from a given that you can just pencil in his usual numbers this year without improvement......

I disagree on that outlook.

1) AD is noticeably better than Blake Griffin. An AD with CP3 combo would make Blake+CP3 look mediocre. His defense can improve, he seems to pick his spots much too often. Blake Griffin was never at this level.
2) Which five players are better than AD? I had AD at the fifth spot (behind LeBron, KD, Harden, Curry), but I can't find anyone out there who I'd take over AD on that spot.
3) Cousins has a lot of work to do. He's a liability when he lets his emotions get to him and I'm going to have to see him start working with the coach before I can trust him. He has a bad rep while Anthony Davis is all positive.
4) LaMarcus Aldridge is incredibly overrated. He can score and rebound but his lack of defense, passing, and he's incredibly inefficient because he relies too much on his jumper. Top five PF but I don't see what's so special about this guy. High volume, inefficient scorer.


Tim Duncan has to be the obvious choice here. Still have yet to see anyone defend their Wade vote.

Just wanted to add onto Tredigs post, yeah, his defense isn't up there with Timmy/KG, but I think his skillset is much higher than both of them. He's been developing a three pointer, can handle the ball, and is more athletic than both of them.

Raps18-19 Champ
09-26-2015, 01:21 AM
Woooo buddy, then that would make my Aldridge vote not count.

Yea but it makes the thread more accurate in the long run.

kdspurman
09-26-2015, 11:04 AM
I disagree on that outlook.

1) AD is noticeably better than Blake Griffin. An AD with CP3 combo would make Blake+CP3 look mediocre. His defense can improve, he seems to pick his spots much too often. Blake Griffin was never at this level.
2) Which five players are better than AD? I had AD at the fifth spot (behind LeBron, KD, Harden, Curry), but I can't find anyone out there who I'd take over AD on that spot.
3) Cousins has a lot of work to do. He's a liability when he lets his emotions get to him and I'm going to have to see him start working with the coach before I can trust him. He has a bad rep while Anthony Davis is all positive.
4) LaMarcus Aldridge is incredibly overrated. He can score and rebound but his lack of defense, passing, and he's incredibly inefficient because he relies too much on his jumper. Top five PF but I don't see what's so special about this guy. High volume, inefficient scorer.


Tim Duncan has to be the obvious choice here. Still have yet to see anyone defend their Wade vote.

Just wanted to add onto Tredigs post, yeah, his defense isn't up there with Timmy/KG, but I think his skillset is much higher than both of them. He's been developing a three pointer, can handle the ball, and is more athletic than both of them.

I don't know I'd consider more athletic part of a skillset. Duncan could beat you in so many ways, I think his skillset was far higher than AD's to this point. Better passer, post player, footwork, defender, hook shot, IQ, you name it. I think the problem is Duncan has been around so long people are forgetting young Duncan. He was also actually a very good ball handler too and quite quick with the ball so IDK if I'd say AD is a better ball handler yet. He's not on Griffin's level of handling the ball who has really good handles for a PF. (I can't recall exactly KG's ball handling but I remembered him having some handles as well, especially out on the perimeter before he takes that mid range shot)

Duncan's first playoff game as a rookie (well his 4th quarter) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB7XD8km7L0

Look at how many different ways he scores the ball and his ball handling on certain possessions. That's skillset there. Davis isn't quite there to this point in his career.

To touch on LMA, he's actually a better passer/defender than people give him credit for. And/or him not being consistent enough or dialed in defensively. I think a change in environment + Pop and Co. and it'll be displayed more.

Zach Lowe touches on both

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-adjustment-bureau-how-lamarcus-aldridge-will-fit-in-with-the-spurs/

flea
09-26-2015, 11:17 AM
Sad how people have forgotten what Duncan could do. Davis is a long and athletic finisher, a jumpshooter, and that's pretty much it for his offense. If he's lucky he'll be as good as prime Duncan offensively (probably never defensively) but no way is he even close at this point.

FlashBolt
09-27-2015, 02:51 AM
I don't know I'd consider more athletic part of a skillset. Duncan could beat you in so many ways, I think his skillset was far higher than AD's to this point. Better passer, post player, footwork, defender, hook shot, IQ, you name it. I think the problem is Duncan has been around so long people are forgetting young Duncan. He was also actually a very good ball handler too and quite quick with the ball so IDK if I'd say AD is a better ball handler yet. He's not on Griffin's level of handling the ball who has really good handles for a PF. (I can't recall exactly KG's ball handling but I remembered him having some handles as well, especially out on the perimeter before he takes that mid range shot)

Duncan's first playoff game as a rookie (well his 4th quarter) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FB7XD8km7L0

Look at how many different ways he scores the ball and his ball handling on certain possessions. That's skillset there. Davis isn't quite there to this point in his career.

To touch on LMA, he's actually a better passer/defender than people give him credit for. And/or him not being consistent enough or dialed in defensively. I think a change in environment + Pop and Co. and it'll be displayed more.

Zach Lowe touches on both

http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-adjustment-bureau-how-lamarcus-aldridge-will-fit-in-with-the-spurs/

Athleticism is part of a skillset. I probably phrased it wrongly but AD's potential is right there. I mean what can't this guy do? Duncan could do a lot of things but I think in terms of variety, AD is more advanced.

kdspurman
09-27-2015, 10:47 AM
Athleticism is part of a skillset. I probably phrased it wrongly but AD's potential is right there. I mean what can't this guy do? Duncan could do a lot of things but I think in terms of variety, AD is more advanced.

I disagree that he's more advanced than anything TD did with the exception maybe of the mid range/3 shot. Duncan's game is/was all about variety. AD doesn't have a strong back to basket game, his defense is a little overrated, (though improving) passing out of double teams; just overall IQ.. He's more comparable to KG offensively cause both didn't play with their back to the basket that much. More of step out jump shooters. Young Duncan scored in so many ways. He's got a long ways to go to catch Duncan in terms of post game, footwork, defense, etc...

I agree potential is there.. but he ain't there yet. Not too close either IMO.