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View Full Version : Current Top-10 Players in the NBA (#8)



Shammyguy3
08-29-2015, 12:04 PM
Choose from the poll options and debate who the current Top Ten best players in the NBA are. This should not be based on who had the best season last year, but rather who you would choose for a team in order to win right now.

Additional options will be added as we go along based on who will realistically receive votes at that level (or if players are requested in the thread).

1. Lebron (73% of the vote)
2. Durant (55% of the vote)
3. Curry (55% of the vote)
4. Davis (50% of the vote)
5. Harden (57% of the vote)
6. Paul (52% of the vote)
7. Westbrook (82% of the vote)
8. ?

Shammyguy3
08-29-2015, 12:12 PM
has to be blake here, then #9 i think can go a lot of directions

Clippersfan86
08-29-2015, 01:05 PM
has to be blake here, then #9 i think can go a lot of directions

Agreed. BTW props to PSD for the turnout and unbiased stuff in these polls/threads you've made lately. This is one of the very few times I've seen the forum as a whole keep homering out of it and just analyze for what it is. Many people with a so called horse in the race have said they felt this was a perfect list so far and they had no objections (although who knows, Blake and coming players are more controversial).

JAZZNC
08-29-2015, 04:21 PM
I would have to say Blake Griffin. Even with his defensive problems ( which I think are largely due to his measurables) he can just do so much on offense. I feel like he could do things like Westbrook did last year if Paul wasn't around and do it more efficiently than Westy.

PS-Add my vote please, I can't access the poll.

Sadds The Gr8
08-29-2015, 05:07 PM
has to be blake here, then #9 i think can go a lot of directions

boooooooooooooogiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeee

MELO 15
08-29-2015, 07:06 PM
boooooooooooooogiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeee

stop it!

Bruno
08-29-2015, 08:43 PM
I'd take Leonard before Blake. better two way player, best two way player left on the board along with Marc who's aging and Butler. I have Blake at #9 or #10.

Allphakenny1
08-29-2015, 11:04 PM
I'd take Leonard before Blake. better two way player, best two way player left on the board along with Marc who's aging and Butler. I have Blake at #9 or #10.

I really like Leonard, but you are vastly overrating him right now. He may turn into that superstar someday, but he is just an all-star right now (not an insult). If he is the best player on your team you are not going very far. Griffin can carry a team much further as the star right now so he should be the obvious choice right here.

JAZZNC
08-29-2015, 11:22 PM
I'd take Leonard before Blake. better two way player, best two way player left on the board along with Marc who's aging and Butler. I have Blake at #9 or #10.
That is just ridiculous. I have no idea how you can rate Leonard ahead of Griffin? Leonard is nowhere close to top ten IMO. He just isn't good enough on the offensive end.

CousinsEvansDUO
08-30-2015, 12:58 AM
Cousins

Allphakenny1
08-30-2015, 01:04 AM
Cousins

He should have been #3, right?

KnicksorBust
08-30-2015, 11:22 AM
Still salty Curry lost to Durant

phantasyyy
08-30-2015, 11:59 AM
I think we wont see Leonard take that next step offensively to lead the team(ever) if not until Duncan/Gino/Parker retires. Especially with Alridge coming in to be the focal point there, but I think in the next year or two when Gino and Duncan hang it up, we'll see a deadly Leonard becoming that 1B. His mid range jumper is already money..

That said I have him behind Marc, Boogie, Aldridge with him on par with Melo(depending on how he returns) and Klay

Shammyguy3
08-30-2015, 09:38 PM
I would have to say Blake Griffin. Even with his defensive problems ( which I think are largely due to his measurables) he can just do so much on offense. I feel like he could do things like Westbrook did last year if Paul wasn't around and do it more efficiently than Westy.

PS-Add my vote please, I can't access the poll.
your vote has been added


boooooooooooooogiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeeee

likely where i'm voting myself, but idk if he'll get the #9 slot

Fowl Rick
08-31-2015, 12:44 AM
I understand Blake going here, but honestly i'll take cousins. In my opinion he'll be the best centre in the league 2015-2016 season. I know i'm reaching a little bit here, I could see Leonard or Blake going here. I'm sticking with Boogie tho!!!

FlashBolt
08-31-2015, 02:04 PM
Leonard the 8th best player? The dude isn't even the best player on his team!

pebloemer
08-31-2015, 02:14 PM
Leonard the 8th best player? The dude isn't even the best player on his team!

Although the polls will say the same thing about the guy that will win the vote.

I agree though, Leonard isn't in the Top 10 discussion for me.

tredigs
08-31-2015, 02:24 PM
Kawhi is the best player on his team. And that's a silly argument anyway considering the player being voted in is going below another player on his own team.

When you're the best wing defender in the NBA + a Finals MVP and DPOY who rebounds and scores at +levels, you're in the top 10 discussion for me. I don't think it's a fluke that the only players who finished above Kawhi in RPM are Curry/Lebron/Harden/AD.

Clippersfan86
08-31-2015, 04:22 PM
Kawhi is the best player on his team. And that's a silly argument anyway considering the player being voted in is going below another player on his own team.

When you're the best wing defender in the NBA + a Finals MVP and DPOY who rebounds and scores at +levels, you're in the top 10 discussion for me. I don't think it's a fluke that the only players who finished above Kawhi in RPM are Curry/Lebron/Harden/AD.

Not a fluke, more of an a anomaly. He's way better than people in here are saying, but he definitely wouldn't be the 5th best player in the NBA. One problem with metrics is they are specific criterias and if players just so happen to dominate at that aspect, they could potentially appear way better than they really are (Tyson Chandler's 125 Ortg or whatever for so many years). I'm by no means claiming to be a stats expect, just stating the obvious that sometimes they can be off.

Clippersfan86
08-31-2015, 04:23 PM
Oh and I honestly would probably take Kawhi over Cousins and Gasol if I was starting a team, so he's definitely in the discussion.

kdspurman
08-31-2015, 04:28 PM
Kawhi is the best player on his team. And that's a silly argument anyway considering the player being voted in is going below another player on his own team.

When you're the best wing defender in the NBA + a Finals MVP and DPOY who rebounds and scores at +levels, you're in the top 10 discussion for me. I don't think it's a fluke that the only players who finished above Kawhi in RPM are Curry/Lebron/Harden/AD.

Definitely not a fluke. Spurs with and without Leonard are 2 very different teams. I just think people don't realize the impact he has. However playing in SA + being as quiet and laid back as he is will do that.

tredigs
08-31-2015, 04:30 PM
Not a fluke, more of an a anomaly. He's way better than people in here are saying, but he definitely wouldn't be the 5th best player in the NBA. One problem with metrics is they are specific criterias and if players just so happen to dominate at that aspect, they could potentially appear way better than they really are (Tyson Chandler's 125 Ortg or whatever for so many years). I'm by no means claiming to be a stats expect, just stating the obvious that sometimes they can be off.

Well that's a totally different stat, though. And it doesn't account for usage or role. It's not like Offensive rating has anything to do with the best offensive players. Similarly for RPM (as all stats), but what I am saying is that I do in fact think Kawhi may have top 5-10 impact in the NBA. Worth mentioning that the smartest sports bettor in the world (haralabo) with statistical resources that NBA teams had been trying to purchase off of him for millions for over half a decade openly considers Kawhi a top 10 player in the NBA and laughs at people who don't understand his understated dominance.

flea
08-31-2015, 04:35 PM
I watched more than half the Spurs games last year and I'd still say Duncan is the best player on that team. Kawhi might surpass him this year, and I agree he is an underrated 2-way player if people think Blake is significantly better than him, but Duncan had the team with the 5th or 6th best record in the West without Kawhi or Splitter. If it was just Duncan out I seriously doubt the Spurs are in the playoff picture.

Chronz
08-31-2015, 04:50 PM
Not a fluke, more of an a anomaly. He's way better than people in here are saying, but he definitely wouldn't be the 5th best player in the NBA. One problem with metrics is they are specific criterias and if players just so happen to dominate at that aspect, they could potentially appear way better than they really are (Tyson Chandler's 125 Ortg or whatever for so many years). I'm by no means claiming to be a stats expect, just stating the obvious that sometimes they can be off.

You do realize pointing out Tysons O-Rtg is similar to pointing out his FG%. What exactly are you trying to allude to? Those are facts, not subjective appearances.

Chronz
08-31-2015, 04:54 PM
I watched more than half the Spurs games last year and I'd still say Duncan is the best player on that team. Kawhi might surpass him this year, and I agree he is an underrated 2-way player if people think Blake is significantly better than him, but Duncan had the team with the 5th or 6th best record in the West without Kawhi or Splitter. If it was just Duncan out I seriously doubt the Spurs are in the playoff picture.

So much of our perception of players relies on who they have as teammates and their own personal replacement value. You can be a better player and have a lesser influence on your own team. Like between Tmac and Yao, Yao was the superior player towards the end, yet when Tmac wasn't out there, the team suffered drastically. Thats because when Yao came out, Dikembe came in, Tmac's replacement was a lowly Luther Head. Easy to see why the team missed Mac more.

So while I agree the Spurs may need Duncan more, its certainly up for debate. Thats when I look at individual statistics and both still have a case. Whenever they go, can we just vote for the other immediately after?

Bruno
08-31-2015, 05:12 PM
That is just ridiculous. I have no idea how you can rate Leonard ahead of Griffin? Leonard is nowhere close to top ten IMO. He just isn't good enough on the offensive end.

His defense is on another level and its a two way sport. guys who are excellent playing two ways will always have the edge on guys who are specialists on one side of the ball imo.

Bruno
08-31-2015, 05:15 PM
I really like Leonard, but you are vastly overrating him right now. He may turn into that superstar someday, but he is just an all-star right now (not an insult). If he is the best player on your team you are not going very far. Griffin can carry a team much further as the star right now so he should be the obvious choice right here.

I disagree. He is that player and nobody notices because of the machine he's a part of. If he were on a poor team all of his numbers would be higher. Blake is great, but gimme Leonard all day.

kdspurman
08-31-2015, 05:35 PM
I disagree. He is that player and nobody notices because of the machine he's a part of. If he were on a poor team all of his numbers would be higher. Blake is great, but gimme Leonard all day.

Kinda like Ben Wallace, the wing version. His impact defensively (and now offensively gradually, his post game/fade-away is getting quite good) is crazy high.

There are many similarities w/him and Pippen IMO. he's started to handle the ball more now, so I'd expect his play-making ability and court vision to be the next leaps he takes.

Bruno
08-31-2015, 06:40 PM
Kinda like Ben Wallace, the wing version. His impact defensively (and now offensively gradually, his post game/fade-away is getting quite good) is crazy high.

There are many similarities w/him and Pippen IMO. he's started to handle the ball more now, so I'd expect his play-making ability and court vision to be the next leaps he takes.

I agree.

I want to defend his offense for a second. Guy averaged 20 a game against the Clippers. He put up 32 in his best offensive game. He's shot 41.7% from three in the playoffs as a Spur in 200 career attempts. He is a special offensive player, who's finding his footing in a legendary system. When Leonard commits to being aggressive he's a handful on offense. I think he's already that guy, its just a matter of the rest of the Spurs forcing the reigns on him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tgpVqWHdrM

Defense needs to explanation. He can anchor from the wing and guard four positions at a top three level at least. No disrespect to Blake, who is excellent. The Spurs are built around Tim Duncan, in a way he's still the most important Spur because of how it was constructed. But that doesn't mean Leonard isn't better at this point in time as an individual player. he's still underrated as an individual player.

kdspurman
08-31-2015, 06:52 PM
I agree.

I want to defend his offense for a second. Guy averaged 20 a game against the Clippers. He put up 32 in his best offensive game. He's shot 41.7% from three in the playoffs as a Spur in 200 career attempts. He is a special offensive player, who's finding his footing in a legendary system. When Leonard commits to being aggressive he's a handful on offense. I think he's already that guy, its just a matter of the rest of the Spurs forcing the reigns on him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tgpVqWHdrM

Defense needs to explanation. He can anchor from the wing and guard four positions at a top three level at least. No disrespect to Blake, who is excellent. The Spurs are built around Tim Duncan, in a way he's still the most important Spur because of how it was constructed. But that doesn't mean Leonard isn't better at this point in time as an individual player. he's still underrated as an individual player.

Oh for sure, I agree. His offense the last season compared to his rookie season is night and day, and like you said when he's given the reigns it'll only get better. When Pop challenged him to be aggressive in the finals, Games 3-5 he was special. His post game had become quite good, he backs down most players with ease, he has a nice little jump hook (easy to do with mitts his size) and his mid range shot and jump shooting in general is pretty consistent.

From a scoring point of view, I don't think there's any question he has the game to score the ball. He does it differently then the games best scorers of course, but I feel very confident with the ball in his hands if we needed a bucket.

His ball handling and court vision are coming a long too, I think we'll see him handling the ball a bit more this year, especially in pick and roll and pick and pop situations, just so he can start reading certain situations and get more comfortable.

Def think people underrate him a little overall, but everyone's entitled to their opinions. But if I had to pick either Duncan or Leonard to be out for a 10 game stretch it would be Duncan, and I love the guy of course. But the way the game is played today, how guard/sf oriented it is, Kawhis presence is missed too much. Our -.500 record without him proves that.

flea
08-31-2015, 06:55 PM
I agree.

I want to defend his offense for a second. Guy averaged 20 a game against the Clippers. He put up 32 in his best offensive game. He's shot 41.7% from three in the playoffs as a Spur in 200 career attempts. He is a special offensive player, who's finding his footing in a legendary system. When Leonard commits to being aggressive he's a handful on offense. I think he's already that guy, its just a matter of the rest of the Spurs forcing the reigns on him.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tgpVqWHdrM

Defense needs to explanation. He can anchor from the wing and guard four positions at a top three level at least. No disrespect to Blake, who is excellent. The Spurs are built around Tim Duncan, in a way he's still the most important Spur because of how it was constructed. But that doesn't mean Leonard isn't better at this point in time as an individual player. he's still underrated as an individual player.

Wouldn't really agree on this point, unless you're talking about their defense in which case yes it's built around him. Offensively it hasn't been built around him in a long time, he's just been versatile enough to play with any sort of team. For at least 7 or 8 years it's been built around Tony Parker - shooters on the perimeter and P&R sets. That's why they taught Kawhi (a non-shooter and PF in college) to shoot 3s. Last season they gave Kawhi probably 10 or so ISO opportunities, and he was good as long as the jumper was falling. Went quietly towards the end of the Clips series because it wasn't.

Will be interesting to see if he gets the same amount of touches this year with a premiere big man scorer joining the team. Like kdspur said, his playmaking could leave something to be desired at times and he definitely is more of an asset within the offense at this point. But there's lots of promise for a diverse, prototypical SF's game.

Clippersfan86
08-31-2015, 09:33 PM
You do realize pointing out Tysons O-Rtg is similar to pointing out his FG%. What exactly are you trying to allude to? Those are facts, not subjective appearances.

Isn't ORTG more like PPP? Or to be technical more like points per 100 possessions? Or something like that. I will readily admit I'm not a stats guru, but do the numbers come out similar to FG?