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View Full Version : why dont the thunder get criticized for never doing anything during the offseason?



MTar786
08-17-2015, 08:01 PM
the thunder never upgrade during the off season.. ever
After the finals ended i thought to myself.. 'the thunder are gonna win it all next season'
My opinion has obviously changed after the spurs clips and everyone else made good changes to their roster.
If i was KD or westbrook i would be conuting the days till i could sign with someone else

archdevil84
08-17-2015, 08:14 PM
i dont think the thunder are gonna be very impressive this year. not in the spurs-clippers-warriors league atleast, unless durant goes absolute bananas (which he can do). i'm guessing 4th seed and 2nd round exit for them this year

FOXHOUND
08-17-2015, 08:45 PM
Because when you have arguably the most talent in the NBA, which has been the case with OKC for the past 4-5 seasons, you don't really need to do much in the offseason. They also made that deadline move which netted them players, you know like Kanter.

What did you expect them to do besides resign Kanter? They have a new coach, isn't that a bit more than "anything"?

JasonJohnHorn
08-17-2015, 09:39 PM
Firstly, the first year they should have made it to the finals, they did.

After that, it was the GM giving away Harden, and then injuries.

And that said, they've had three deep playoff runs; on finals and two conference finals.

I don't think they've under performed in the post season ever. They've lost to teams who were better than them, and they've been hampered by injury and a ownership that didn't want to pay to keep a talented roster together.

sens#11fan
08-17-2015, 09:57 PM
Honestly, I think OKC is good enough to win it all next season. Their team is pretty deep right now as they have players that compliment KD and Westbrook, with the proper coaching. Billy Donovan was arguably the best at drawing plays last year (in college), which can translate well for the team if the team buys into it. OKC has fell short these last couple of years because of injuries to Ibaka, Kd and Westbrook. You can't really argue that their front office isn't doing much to improve the team with their additions of Waiter, Kanter, and DJ during the trade deadline. There is only so much you can do when you live in a small city, you have to overpay in order to attract big talent. Atleast, they resigned Kanter showing that they want to contend. Again, OKC will have a good shot at winning next year if their team is healthy for the postseason and if the Donovan experiment works.

FlashBolt
08-17-2015, 10:41 PM
Because we have our core. At this point, it is about getting healthy. I've been a fan of trading Westbrook (not that I don't like him but he doesn't fit with KD as well as other PG's) for CP3 for quite some time now. Our biggest improvement has been our center position. Kendrick was a huge waste of money, Collison is just okay. With Kanter/Adams, we have a much better frontcourt than ever.

TheNumber37
08-17-2015, 10:57 PM
They do.

They also have 2 of the top 7 players in the NBA, not much to race towards but support and depth.

They drafted Cameron Payne who is gonna be big for them

Scoots
08-17-2015, 11:31 PM
The answer to the OP is ... It's OKC, nobody who isn't a fan of the team cares at all, and the fans have consumed the Kool-Aid.

Realistically, the team did improve. I like the draft picks, and they did make a mid-season move to add talent, and they brought in a new coach for one last shot with KD.

broncosfan4eva
08-17-2015, 11:45 PM
i think this is OKCs year they have a all-star coaching staff now, lets hope they can stay healthy.

Dade County
08-17-2015, 11:56 PM
WHen I think about the Thunder organization... I stop short of Epic Failure to hold a great team together (but as soon as KD or West leaves... I am flaming the **** out of their front office).



I mean seriously, just because they are a small market team they didn't want to go into the Tax to keep Harden?

I mean, I think about other organization, and it's hard for me to believe they would have traded Harden for the same reasons too (it just doesn't make sense to me).


Harden would have token a little longer to blossom but damn he still would have reached his potential eventually.

And the end game rotations would have placed HArden at the SG spot. The man would have started sooner then later (long story short).


I just don't understand. Why even try to pick from Harden or Ibaka; WHY NOT KEEP EVERYONE! I know it's not my money, but damn it someone should have sat the owner down and let him know **** like this doesn't happen all the time (maybe once every 25yrs LoL).

FlashBolt
08-18-2015, 01:58 AM
When will you people realize that Harden+Westbrook+KD will never work if you want them each to fulfill their potential. You can't possibly put three high USG% players and 1st option type players on the same team and expect MVP caliber performances daily. Get over it, seriously. Ibaka+Westbrook+KD will win more games than Harden+KD+Westbrook. Now, if you're asking me if Harden+KD>Westbrook+KD, then I'd agree. I really think Westbrook being a PG for OKC is a terrible fit.

kdspurman
08-18-2015, 08:08 AM
When will you people realize that Harden+Westbrook+KD will never work if you want them each to fulfill their potential. You can't possibly put three high USG% players and 1st option type players on the same team and expect MVP caliber performances daily. Get over it, seriously. Ibaka+Westbrook+KD will win more games than Harden+KD+Westbrook. Now, if you're asking me if Harden+KD>Westbrook+KD, then I'd agree. I really think Westbrook being a PG for OKC is a terrible fit.

I think that kind of dynamic could have worked, but you have to have the right people with the right mindset. I don't think MVP caliber performances would be required either necessarily, just overall consistently good play. With that, comes sacrificing some #'s which is where the right mindset comes into play

Dade County
08-18-2015, 09:16 AM
When will you people realize that Harden+Westbrook+KD will never work if you want them each to fulfill their potential. You can't possibly put three high USG% players and 1st option type players on the same team and expect MVP caliber performances daily. Get over it, seriously. Ibaka+Westbrook+KD will win more games than Harden+KD+Westbrook. Now, if you're asking me if Harden+KD>Westbrook+KD, then I'd agree. I really think Westbrook being a PG for OKC is a terrible fit.


Crazy talk...


It would just take a offensive system/game plan to fully utilize what they bring to the table. Sports doesn't work the way you are saying; more talent with the right coaching brings about dominance.

Of course you couldn't just let them take turns, running their on iso plays or what not; you would just crate a good ball movement offense to take advantage of the talent.

Let Pat Riley would have had this young core (West, Harden, KD, Ibaka), you think you could have typed the nonsense you just did (I am not bashing you, please don't take it that way *Flashbolt*)? That team would have been kept together no matter what.

Hawkeye15
08-18-2015, 09:54 AM
because they don't really need to, nor do they have the means to do anything outside fine tuning. But with injuries to Durant/Westbrook, they really don't know what needs to be fine tuned until they get a healthy team on the floor and see where their championship aspirations need tweeking.....

valade16
08-18-2015, 10:16 AM
The Thunder have done a terrible job in terms of managing their talent. When you look at what they've had since their 1st Finals run to now in terms of who is gone and who they have the talent drop-off is staggering.

Loss:
James Harden
Jeff Green
Reggie Jackson
Thabo Sefolosha
Kevin Martin

Added:
Enes Kanter
Dion Waiters
Stephen Adams
Anthony Morrow


They've lost a tremendous amount of talent. It's truly incredible how bad they screwed up the best position (talent-wise) in the NBA at the time.

Tony_Starks
08-18-2015, 11:10 AM
When you have the best player in the game, and Russ who is top 5 easy, you just fill in the gaps.

People get a little too caught up in names but talent wise they have a nice cast. First off people are still sleeping on Kanter, he's about to be official this year. The frontcourt combo of Adams/ McGary is also very nice and interchangeable. Morrow is one of the best at what he does, Waiters is a wild card but he started to look more comfortable. I would've liked to see them add like a Andre Miller for that vet pg stability, that's probably my biggest knock on them.

All boils down to KDs foot. If he could've came back last season I actually had them beating GS in the Finals because Russ would've absolutely ate Steph alive.

Healthy KD and Russ and they are the best in the West.

Vinylman
08-18-2015, 11:21 AM
One could argue that their problem was TO MUCH activity in the past...

I would assume if they had to do it over that they would have extended Harden and then traded him during the season rather than before it. They would have had multiple ridiculous offers at the deadline if they had extended him already.

valade16
08-18-2015, 11:32 AM
When you have the best player in the game, and Russ who is top 5 easy, you just fill in the gaps.

People get a little too caught up in names but talent wise they have a nice cast. First off people are still sleeping on Kanter, he's about to be official this year. The frontcourt combo of Adams/ McGary is also very nice and interchangeable. Morrow is one of the best at what he does, Waiters is a wild card but he started to look more comfortable. I would've liked to see them add like a Andre Miller for that vet pg stability, that's probably my biggest knock on them.

All boils down to KDs foot. If he could've came back last season I actually had them beating GS in the Finals because Russ would've absolutely ate Steph alive.

Healthy KD and Russ and they are the best in the West.

Kanter will be what he is: a good scoring big who is one of the worst big men defenders in the league.

Hawkeye15
08-18-2015, 11:38 AM
The Thunder have done a terrible job in terms of managing their talent. When you look at what they've had since their 1st Finals run to now in terms of who is gone and who they have the talent drop-off is staggering.

Loss:
James Harden
Jeff Green
Reggie Jackson
Thabo Sefolosha
Kevin Martin

Added:
Enes Kanter
Dion Waiters
Stephen Adams
Anthony Morrow


They've lost a tremendous amount of talent. It's truly incredible how bad they screwed up the best position (talent-wise) in the NBA at the time.

$$$$

Hawkeye15
08-18-2015, 11:41 AM
One could argue that their problem was TO MUCH activity in the past...

I would assume if they had to do it over that they would have extended Harden and then traded him during the season rather than before it. They would have had multiple ridiculous offers at the deadline if they had extended him already.

yeah I mean I am not going to kill them for drafting TOO well, and not being able to hold onto everyone via trades, etc. But I thought they lost some Harden leverage by not doing what you suggested here. They could have gotten a much better deal had they just extended him then put him on the trade market.

Tony_Starks
08-18-2015, 11:47 AM
When you have the best player in the game, and Russ who is top 5 easy, you just fill in the gaps.

People get a little too caught up in names but talent wise they have a nice cast. First off people are still sleeping on Kanter, he's about to be official this year. The frontcourt combo of Adams/ McGary is also very nice and interchangeable. Morrow is one of the best at what he does, Waiters is a wild card but he started to look more comfortable. I would've liked to see them add like a Andre Miller for that vet pg stability, that's probably my biggest knock on them.

All boils down to KDs foot. If he could've came back last season I actually had them beating GS in the Finals because Russ would've absolutely ate Steph alive.

Healthy KD and Russ and they are the best in the West.

Kanter will be what he is: a good scoring big who is one of the worst big men defenders in the league.

But who needs him to defend? They still got Ibaka to erase all those mistakes.

If he's crashing boards and giving you buckets that's more than enough.

Vinylman
08-18-2015, 12:02 PM
Kanter will be what he is: a good scoring big who is one of the worst big men defenders in the league.

Kanter doesn't really need to play above average D because he will usually be playing alongside either Ibaka or Adams...

Vinylman
08-18-2015, 12:05 PM
yeah I mean I am not going to kill them for drafting TOO well, and not being able to hold onto everyone via trades, etc. But I thought they lost some Harden leverage by not doing what you suggested here. They could have gotten a much better deal had they just extended him then put him on the trade market.

yeah... I never understood it either but they always make moves earlier than they have to from a LT standpoint (Green).

Having him under contract would also have given them a broader market.

valade16
08-18-2015, 12:41 PM
Kanter doesn't really need to play above average D because he will usually be playing alongside either Ibaka or Adams...

It's not about him not needing to play above average D it's about him playing any D at all.

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/4/8/8370347/thunder-defense-statistics-analysis-enes-kanter-serge-ibaka-russell-westbrook-injuries-2015

Even with Ibaka last season the Thunder's D was 25th when Ibaka and Kanter played together. 29th with Kanter and no Ibaka and 10th with Ibaka and no Kanter.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/the-curious-case-of-enes-kanter/

All of this is encapsulated in ESPNís Real Plus-Minus metric (RPM), which ranks Kanter at 385th in the league (-3.28), due mostly to his abysmal -3.75 defensive RPM rating. To give more perspective, Kanter ranks dead last in defensive RPM among all qualified centers, including Andrea Bargnani of the New York Knicks.


Kanter was the dead last defensive Center last season. As in the worst in the league. The leap in play to get Kanter to play even average D would be sizeable at this point.

Kanter is closer to having Shaq's offensive impact than he is to having Marcin Gortat's defensive impact...

Hawkeye15
08-18-2015, 12:42 PM
yeah... I never understood it either but they always make moves earlier than they have to from a LT standpoint (Green).

Having him under contract would also have given them a broader market.

oh god yes, because every team bidding now knows he is locked up for 4-5 years.

JasonJohnHorn
08-18-2015, 12:57 PM
The Thunder have done a terrible job in terms of managing their talent. When you look at what they've had since their 1st Finals run to now in terms of who is gone and who they have the talent drop-off is staggering.

Loss:
James Harden
Jeff Green
Reggie Jackson
Thabo Sefolosha
Kevin Martin

Added:
Enes Kanter
Dion Waiters
Stephen Adams
Anthony Morrow


They've lost a tremendous amount of talent. It's truly incredible how bad they screwed up the best position (talent-wise) in the NBA at the time.

Right?

The fact that they've regressed has nothing to do with coaching or KD and Westy not playing up to par and everything to do with letting talented players go.

Kanter is a great pick up, and so is Singler (in terms of spreading the floor), but at the end of the day, they lost one of the best defensive guards in the league (Sefolosha), perhaps the best back-up point in the league (Jackson; at least judging from how he performed with the Pistons), the leagues best shooting guard (Harden) and the All-Star shooting guard who replaced him (Martin), you can't expect a team to continue to compete at a high level.

Look at the Bulls with MJ and Pippen and no Grant (who wasn't even an All-Star mind you), they got dominated by the Magic; with Grant they won three ring beating out a massively talented Knicks team, as well as the Lakers, Suns and Trailblazers.

And that's just one guy. When you are talking about Harden, Jackson, and Sefolosha... that is a HUGE impact.

MTar786
08-18-2015, 01:01 PM
When you have the best player in the game, and Russ who is top 5 easy, you just fill in the gaps.

People get a little too caught up in names but talent wise they have a nice cast. First off people are still sleeping on Kanter, he's about to be official this year. The frontcourt combo of Adams/ McGary is also very nice and interchangeable. Morrow is one of the best at what he does, Waiters is a wild card but he started to look more comfortable. I would've liked to see them add like a Andre Miller for that vet pg stability, that's probably my biggest knock on them.

All boils down to KDs foot. If he could've came back last season I actually had them beating GS in the Finals because Russ would've absolutely ate Steph alive.

Healthy KD and Russ and they are the best in the West.

no, that is not how you win championships. I grew up watching the lakers 3peat. with a duo way better than kd and westbrook. and even shaq and kobe needed the right pieces around them. even the lakers made slight changes after each ring and big changes when they didnt win it all. People who are saying the thunder are fine and have been fine obviously dont share the same opinion as i do, because IMO every year since they got to the finals should have been considered a wasted year if they didnt win it all. same goes for this year..

kdspurman
08-18-2015, 01:06 PM
no, that is not how you win championships. I grew up watching the lakers 3peat. with a duo way better than kd and westbrook. and even shaq and kobe needed the right pieces around them. even the lakers made slight changes after each ring and big changes when they didnt win it all. People who are saying the thunder are fine and have been fine obviously dont share the same opinion as i do, because IMO every year since they got to the finals should have been considered a wasted year if they didnt win it all. same goes for this year..

It's tough to say whether they are or aren't fine due to the injuries they've had. I think their bench play even when healthy has been pretty poor, so that's definitely something to criticize, or it could've been Brooks just not playing them enough. That issue may have been resolved by removing Brooks from the picture, so we'll see this season

Vinylman
08-18-2015, 02:15 PM
It's not about him not needing to play above average D it's about him playing any D at all.

http://www.sbnation.com/2015/4/8/8370347/thunder-defense-statistics-analysis-enes-kanter-serge-ibaka-russell-westbrook-injuries-2015

Even with Ibaka last season the Thunder's D was 25th when Ibaka and Kanter played together. 29th with Kanter and no Ibaka and 10th with Ibaka and no Kanter.

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/the-curious-case-of-enes-kanter/

All of this is encapsulated in ESPNís Real Plus-Minus metric (RPM), which ranks Kanter at 385th in the league (-3.28), due mostly to his abysmal -3.75 defensive RPM rating. To give more perspective, Kanter ranks dead last in defensive RPM among all qualified centers, including Andrea Bargnani of the New York Knicks.


Kanter was the dead last defensive Center last season. As in the worst in the league. The leap in play to get Kanter to play even average D would be sizeable at this point.

Kanter is closer to having Shaq's offensive impact than he is to having Marcin Gortat's defensive impact...

using the exact same stats where did OKC rank as a team for the full year? Not a big fan of isolating numbers and not providing context...

phantasyyy
08-18-2015, 02:18 PM
When you have the best player in the game, and Russ who is top 5 easy, you just fill in the gaps.

People get a little too caught up in names but talent wise they have a nice cast. First off people are still sleeping on Kanter, he's about to be official this year. The frontcourt combo of Adams/ McGary is also very nice and interchangeable. Morrow is one of the best at what he does, Waiters is a wild card but he started to look more comfortable. I would've liked to see them add like a Andre Miller for that vet pg stability, that's probably my biggest knock on them.

All boils down to KDs foot. If he could've came back last season I actually had them beating GS in the Finals because Russ would've absolutely ate Steph alive.

Healthy KD and Russ and they are the best in the West.

Uhh.. Steph wouldn't have guarded Westbrook those honors would go to mainly Iggy and sometimes Klay(when he isn't guarding Durant) He would most likely be hidden on either waiters or morrow-whoever the 2 guard is.

I'm not necessarily saying Warriors would win, but mind you they were pretty good last year and to say that if KD came back they would win is just ignoring the strengths the warriors have. If anything they are the most equipped in dealing with perimeter threats with defensive guards in Iggy, Barnes, Klay and even Green to through on both Westy and KD.

Jury is still out on this OKC squad, to be honest scoring was and never will be a problem with a Westbrook and Durant led squad - and if anything the Kanter addition improves upon a strength they already have while leaving a massive hole in the interior in terms of defense. Ibaka is a great great defender but he cant guard two people at one time.

phantasyyy
08-18-2015, 02:20 PM
Right?

The fact that they've regressed has nothing to do with coaching or KD and Westy not playing up to par and everything to do with letting talented players for.

Kanter is a great pick up, and so is Singler (in terms of spreading the floor), but at the end of the day, they lost one of the best defensive guards in the league (Sefolosha), perhaps the best back-up point in the league (Jackson; at least judging from how he performed with the Pistons), the leagues best shooting guard (Harden) and the All-Star shooting guard who replaced him (Martin), you can't expect a team to continue to compete at a high level.

Look at the Bulls with MJ and Pippen and no Grant (who wasn't even an All-Star mind you), they got dominated by the Magic; with Grant they won three ring beating out a massively talented Knicks team, as well as the Lakers, Suns and Trailblazers.

And that's just one guy. When you are talking about Harden, Jackson, and Sefolosha... that is a HUGE impact.

That was the year that MJ just came back so you cant really say they lost just because they didtn have Grant, he returned to play on pretty much at the end of the season on March 19th. obviously adjusting to playing with Jordan again was an issue there as well

valade16
08-18-2015, 03:00 PM
using the exact same stats where did OKC rank as a team for the full year? Not a big fan of isolating numbers and not providing context...

Which stats are you referring? Their Drtg?

On the season it was 16th. Before Kanter it was 10th and after it was 25th with Kanter/Ibaka and 29th with Kanter w/o Ibaka. The Previous season their Drtg was 6th FWIW as well.

I'd also point out the Utah Jazz's Drtg was 14th on the season but when Kanter was traded it was Top 3 best in the league from that point on.

There is no context you can provide that paints Kanter as anything but a terrible defender. Every defensive stat imaginable all says the same thing: his defense is horrible.

Tony_Starks
08-18-2015, 03:07 PM
When you have the best player in the game, and Russ who is top 5 easy, you just fill in the gaps.

People get a little too caught up in names but talent wise they have a nice cast. First off people are still sleeping on Kanter, he's about to be official this year. The frontcourt combo of Adams/ McGary is also very nice and interchangeable. Morrow is one of the best at what he does, Waiters is a wild card but he started to look more comfortable. I would've liked to see them add like a Andre Miller for that vet pg stability, that's probably my biggest knock on them.

All boils down to KDs foot. If he could've came back last season I actually had them beating GS in the Finals because Russ would've absolutely ate Steph alive.

Healthy KD and Russ and they are the best in the West.

no, that is not how you win championships. I grew up watching the lakers 3peat. with a duo way better than kd and westbrook. and even shaq and kobe needed the right pieces around them. even the lakers made slight changes after each ring and big changes when they didnt win it all. People who are saying the thunder are fine and have been fine obviously dont share the same opinion as i do, because IMO every year since they got to the finals should have been considered a wasted year if they didnt win it all. same goes for this year..

Well that is what I meant by "fill in the gaps." I don't mean fill it in with scrubs I mean fill in the gaps with pieces that compliment like the Lakers did.

If you look at it they have 2 superstar scorers capable of carrying a team so what do they need to compliment them? Rim protection? Check. Spot up shooter? Check. Hustle player(s)? Check. Bench? Hmmmmm, idk....

Those are always the main championship ingredients. Throw in reliable 6th man Harden and you got yearly contender but what's done is done.

Still if healthy they are in good position depending on how quickly Donovan can get acclimated to the NBA, which I'm very confident he will.

mngopher35
08-18-2015, 03:42 PM
using the exact same stats where did OKC rank as a team for the full year? Not a big fan of isolating numbers and not providing context...

The thing with Kanter is it happened no matter where he was, he hurts the team on that end. He goes to OKC and their defensive rating drops. He leaves Utah and they jump up to the best defense in the league post trade. He really is a huge liability on that end. I think they would be better off bringing him off the bench to be honest.

mngopher35
08-18-2015, 03:50 PM
OKC is interesting because I really think they have the right pieces at the top. They have made some bad moves and lost the possibility of having amazing depth but things can still work out. Durant is an elite scorer, Westbrook is an elite attacker/creator, and Ibaka fits nicely as an ok 3rd option but with range who also rebounds and protects the paint.

It is interesting how OKC and even Durant have escaped criticism for so long. It seems like many just want to blame Westbrook when bad things happen unfortunately. Hopefully they come back healthy and we can really see where this team is at and if they need to shake things up.

Bostonjorge
08-18-2015, 07:52 PM
I also think OKC front office can't get it done. They don't want to pay the players they build up. Then turn around and over pay Kanter. OKC is still a scary team with Westbrook and Durant. Best combo in the league today.

At this point I believe Westbrook and Durant are equals and the number one and number two on this team is not yet decided for this upcoming season.

sens#11fan
08-19-2015, 08:06 AM
I agree, Kanter is a defensive liability. I think he is more suited for the 6th man role for OKC, as Adams is better at the defensive end and has shown he can score in the paint last season. Also, OKC did overpay for Kanter, however, he is one of the more polished big men in terms of scoring. OKC needed a big men who could score easy baskets in the paint and as an added bonus he can shoot from 15 feet away.

2-ONE-5
08-19-2015, 08:51 AM
the thunder never upgrade during the off season.. ever
After the finals ended i thought to myself.. 'the thunder are gonna win it all next season'
My opinion has obviously changed after the spurs clips and everyone else made good changes to their roster.
If i was KD or westbrook i would be conuting the days till i could sign with someone else

they made their moves last deadline.

Vinylman
08-19-2015, 11:34 AM
Which stats are you referring? Their Drtg?

On the season it was 16th. Before Kanter it was 10th and after it was 25th with Kanter/Ibaka and 29th with Kanter w/o Ibaka. The Previous season their Drtg was 6th FWIW as well.

I'd also point out the Utah Jazz's Drtg was 14th on the season but when Kanter was traded it was Top 3 best in the league from that point on.

There is no context you can provide that paints Kanter as anything but a terrible defender. Every defensive stat imaginable all says the same thing: his defense is horrible.

I am not trying to characterize him as anything... what I was wondering was what you posted above. It will be interesting to see how OKC does this year at full strength...

fwiw... ibaka and Kanter only played 9 games together last year and all of those were without Durant. I am pretty sure that OKC at full strength can at least be middle of the pack.

2-ONE-5
08-19-2015, 02:45 PM
Kanters D wont even matter much bcuz only GSW will be able to keep up with OKCs scoring if they stay healthy.

Hopper15
08-19-2015, 05:07 PM
Kanters D wont even matter much bcuz only GSW will be able to keep up with OKCs scoring if they stay healthy.

OKC just better keep Kanter off the floor in the 4th quarter. He can't switch or defend the P&R at all.

JasonJohnHorn
08-19-2015, 09:19 PM
That was the year that MJ just came back so you cant really say they lost just because they didtn have Grant, he returned to play on pretty much at the end of the season on March 19th. obviously adjusting to playing with Jordan again was an issue there as well

I'd concede to that if I were talking about regular season record,but I'm talking about playoffs. Jordan's FG% in the playoffs that year, was higher than it was the last time he won the title, and higher than the following three years, so he was shooting the ball very well. His assist average was also higher than two of the following three titles, as was his rebounding average and his 3pt percentage. The only category where his numbers were't up to snuff was turnover, but he had an increase of less than 2 a game, which is huge but only translates to, at the most, 4 points a game, and three of the four games Orlando won was by more than four points.

jordan played at an MVP level in the playoffs that year. He was rusty in the regular season when he first got back in, but he had kept in shape for baseball, and practiced with the Bulls for a couple weeks before suiting up, and they were still running the same system.

The biggest different was the loss of Grant and Cartwright. Had they still had Cartwright's size and defense to slow shaq down (Cartwright was no Mutumbo, but he knew how to make young guys work hard for the points they got), and Grant to help out on the glass, they would have won that series. It was, after all, a 6-game series in the conference finals.

The loss of Grant was huge. Could you imagine the Bull letting Grant go the year AFTER they made it to the conference finals because they didn't want to pay for three guys, and then letting BJ Armstrong go? And then letting Paxon go, and then losing Pippen to injury in the playoffs one year, and then losing Jordan for most of the regular season? Would the Bulls have really been in any better a position than OKC under that situation?

And then consider that none of those players (Grant, Armstrong, and Paxon) was NEARLY as good as Harden....it becomes clear that OKC has had even more severe losses.

If the Bulls had been dropping players like that, Jordan wouldn't have won until the mid 90's at the earliest, unless he left for NY.

slashsnake
08-20-2015, 04:41 AM
the thunder never upgrade during the off season.. ever
After the finals ended i thought to myself.. 'the thunder are gonna win it all next season'
My opinion has obviously changed after the spurs clips and everyone else made good changes to their roster.
If i was KD or westbrook i would be conuting the days till i could sign with someone else

It's Oklahoma City. Not exactly a hotbed for players wanting to move there. My guess is they will try it and maybe make a trade as a last ditch effort before Durant/Westbrook head off to free agency.

kingsdelez24
08-22-2015, 05:47 PM
WHen I think about the Thunder organization... I stop short of Epic Failure to hold a great team together (but as soon as KD or West leaves... I am flaming the **** out of their front office).



I mean seriously, just because they are a small market team they didn't want to go into the Tax to keep Harden?

I mean, I think about other organization, and it's hard for me to believe they would have traded Harden for the same reasons too (it just doesn't make sense to me).


Harden would have token a little longer to blossom but damn he still would have reached his potential eventually.

And the end game rotations would have placed HArden at the SG spot. The man would have started sooner then later (long story short).


I just don't understand. Why even try to pick from Harden or Ibaka; WHY NOT KEEP EVERYONE! I know it's not my money, but damn it someone should have sat the owner down and let him know **** like this doesn't happen all the time (maybe once every 25yrs LoL).

A heat fan talking about keeping great teams together is rich. The team that fell apart in all sorts of ways after their 06 championship, then crumpled when LeBron left

mrblisterdundee
08-22-2015, 08:07 PM
The Thunder have been pretty solid from the draft. With a drafted core including Kevin Durant, Russell Westbrook, James Harden and Serge Ibaka, there aren't many ways to go wrong.
But the Thunder, of course, suck in free agency, highlighted by letting James Harden walk away and letting Portland booby trap them into maxing out Enes Kanter.

Dade County
08-23-2015, 12:03 AM
A heat fan talking about keeping great teams together is rich. The team that fell apart in all sorts of ways after their 06 championship, then crumpled when LeBron left


Dear Goodness...

How does the situations compare to OKC? (I know I will get NO answer to this)


Would Pat Riley have traded away Harden, just not to pay the tax?

Was a key player traded from the HEAT in 07 to cause them to fail? Was Lbj traded?


Your post is ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ps6TLpdtrWM

Corey
08-23-2015, 12:34 AM
Tf

They're rolling out a starting lineup of:

Westbrook - Morrow - Durant - Ibaka - Adams

with a bench of

Augustin - Waiters - Roberson - Collison - Kanter

Leftovers of Payne, Singler, McGary

What exactly do you want them to do? They have one of the best teams in the league.




Continuity is so underrated.

Sadds The Gr8
08-23-2015, 12:53 AM
Tf

They're rolling out a starting lineup of:

Westbrook - Morrow - Durant - Ibaka - Adams

with a bench of

Augustin - Waiters - Roberson - Collison - Kanter

Leftovers of Payne, Singler, McGary

What exactly do you want them to do? They have one of the best teams in the league.




Continuity is so underrated.

I think Kanter starts.

GoferKing_
08-23-2015, 06:50 AM
Well, they are out of contention, soon West or Durant will be gone (or both) and then 10+ years of being the bottom team of the league.xD

Corey
08-23-2015, 12:37 PM
I think Kanter starts.

I dont want him to. He might.

But regardless the depth of that team was the point of my post.

They dont get criticized because there's nothing to criticize right now. They would have been a top team if they didnt have injury problems.

Sadds The Gr8
08-23-2015, 12:52 PM
I dont want him to. He might.

But regardless the depth of that team was the point of my post.

They dont get criticized because there's nothing to criticize right now. They would have been a top team if they didnt have injury problems.
Yea plus they never really have cap space because they have 2 superstars. Only thing u can blame their FO for is harden, and they've gotten killed for that trade.