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View Full Version : Current Top-10 Players in the NBA (#3)



Shammyguy3
08-12-2015, 08:26 PM
Choose from the poll options and debate who the current Top Ten best players in the NBA are. This should not be based on who had the best season last year, but rather who you would choose for a team in order to win right now.

Additional options will be added as we go along based on who will realistically receive votes at that level (or if players are requested in the thread).

1. Lebron (73% of the vote)
2. Durant (55% of the vote)


#tredigs

Scoots
08-12-2015, 09:40 PM
Since I put Curry at #2 I'm putting Durant here.

Jets012
08-12-2015, 09:43 PM
I'm probably the only person who thinks this way, but CP3. He's better than Harden and now this will be where everyone disagrees with me, but I'll still put him over Curry. Curry is amazing, but I think CP3's body of work the last 3 years cannot be ignored. I generally like to see players perform well for 2-3 years, so I usually take their last 3 or so seasons when taking into account how they should be ranked. Davis is an animal, but he still has to prove he can continue this top play into next season and he still has a lot of work to do as a defender (he's still extremely overrated on that end due to his athleticism).

People will point out Curry's ring, but his team was phenomenal around him. I think if you put Paul on that team instead of Curry they don't miss a beat.

Paul's also the best defender at his position. I'll go with him. He doesn't get the respect due to his lack of postseason success, but I don't think the blame falls on him.

Shammyguy3
08-12-2015, 10:35 PM
I'm going Stephen Curry, his impact on a game surpasses Chris Paul imo.

KnicksorBust
08-12-2015, 10:44 PM
Well since the best player in the world is still out there might as well vote him 3rd. #absurd #diduwatchthisyear #onlygettingbetter #doesntneed30shotsfor30points #notinjured #unguardable #mvp #champ

Steph Curry

Tony_Starks
08-13-2015, 01:33 AM
1. KD
2. Curry
3. Lebron

da ThRONe
08-13-2015, 01:52 AM
Who voted "other"?

Anyway I went with Curry. I could see any of Griffin, Paul, or Westbrook here. Some people will say Davis, but for me he's more a system guy and really doesn't have the history I require to put him in the league of other guys on this list.

More-Than-Most
08-13-2015, 02:26 AM
I'm probably the only person who thinks this way, but CP3. He's better than Harden and now this will be where everyone disagrees with me, but I'll still put him over Curry. Curry is amazing, but I think CP3's body of work the last 3 years cannot be ignored. I generally like to see players perform well for 2-3 years, so I usually take their last 3 or so seasons when taking into account how they should be ranked. Davis is an animal, but he still has to prove he can continue this top play into next season and he still has a lot of work to do as a defender (he's still extremely overrated on that end due to his athleticism).

People will point out Curry's ring, but his team was phenomenal around him. I think if you put Paul on that team instead of Curry they don't miss a beat.

Paul's also the best defender at his position. I'll go with him. He doesn't get the respect due to his lack of postseason success, but I don't think the blame falls on him.

am In the CP3 boat as well... Its a disgrace how people underrate his all around play.... All of a sudden curry is better than him after having one season better where CP3 was maybe the 5th best player in all of basketball and is has been doing what curry did for years... Cp3 does just as much with less talent around him.... I don't mind saying curry is right there but get pissed off when all of a sudden people think its blasphemes to put CP3 ahead of him.... The only blasphemes thing is some actually consider harden better than CP3 and there is no universe of reality where that is true.

More-Than-Most
08-13-2015, 02:27 AM
I'm going Stephen Curry, his impact on a game surpasses Chris Paul imo.

CP3 plays much much better defense while almost being as good offensively and has less talent than curry has around him... Not sure how curry has more impact.

Gander13SM
08-13-2015, 02:51 AM
It has to be Curry here.

Only other guy you could really argue is CP3. But we're not talking about full body of work are we? We're talking about right now. And even defensively, Steph was better than CP3 last year in almost every statistical category. Steph had his career high in steals and career low in fouls. That's a crazy combination. He held his counterparts to below 40% from the field. The only point guard that surpassed him in defensive win shares was John Wall. Curry was 15th in the league overall for DWS. His DBPM surpassed CP3. And Steph's DRtg surpassed all other point guards, in fact the only players with a better drtg were Kawhi Leonard, Andre Iguodala, Tony Allen, Khris Middleton and Draymond Green.

And the reasons he was so good defensively? He worked on his game. The hand speed defensively is outstanding, he can deflect shots just as quickly as he can shoot. He's a more diciplined defender, not long ago he would reach and shoot the gap way to much but now he's a lot more judicious with his steals. He's beating guys to the spot, cutting off lanes and just putting on a ton of pressure.

Then there's his offense... We all know about that. Defenders having to pick him up from 30 feet out. The handles. The passing and court vision. The creativity. The efficiency.

Then the accolades. Reigning MVP. Reigning NBA Champion (something CP3 has never even came close to).

It's Steph here. Two or three years ago it would've been CP3 I suspect. But now. It's Steph.

rockets-fan
08-13-2015, 03:44 AM
Curry
Cp3
Davis

Round out my top 5

Harden
Blake
Westy
Melo
Not sure

Round out my top 10

slashsnake
08-13-2015, 04:33 AM
CP3 is such a tough one for me. I'll take a great big man defender over a perimeter defender any day of the week personally, same with a wing defender.

I thought last year he really took a step back in his aggressiveness. He still has the assists as he has some great offensive players there that keep getting better. He still has the points with his outside shots, but I don't think he attacked and broke teams down with penetration nearly as much as he has done in years past.

Not saying he isn't top 10... Heck I'd probably have him top 5 myself, and it is just splitting hairs but that's my thoughts on why I'd go with Curry or Davis here instead.



I want to see more offense out of Deandre or Kawhi before I'd move them into my top 10...

Westbrook I want to see him stay healthy for a full year to get into that top 5, and not sure he will playing with Durant (unless he becomes the alpha there)...

Cousins and Marc Gasol I really like, I'd want them in my top 10...

DanG
08-13-2015, 04:42 AM
LMAO @ people saying CP3>Curry

Cold hard truth: switch teams with cp3 and curry: warriors get knocked out by grizzlies and clippers win the ship.

CP3 is not a takeover the game type of player. He needs a SUPERSTAR beside him to win the championship. Don't give me the defense ********. Curry got it done and CP3 didn't even get past the 2nd round AGAIN with a player who put up 25/13/6 in the playoffs + Doc Rivers, DeAndre Jordan. Not impressed.


Anyway here's my top 10 :

1. LBJ
2. KD
3. Curry
4. AD
5. Harden
6. Westbrook
7. CP3
8. Griffin
9. Irving
10. Duncan

Longhornfan1234
08-13-2015, 05:52 AM
LMAO @ people saying CP3>Curry

Cold hard truth: switch teams with cp3 and curry: warriors get knocked out by grizzlies and clippers win the ship.

CP3 is not a takeover the game type of player. He needs a SUPERSTAR beside him to win the championship. Don't give me the defense ********. Curry got it done and CP3 didn't even get past the 2nd round AGAIN with a player who put up 25/13/6 in the playoffs + Doc Rivers, DeAndre Jordan. Not impressed.


Anyway here's my top 10 :

1. LBJ
2. KD
3. Curry
4. AD
5. Harden
6. Westbrook
7. CP3
8. Griffin
9. Irving
10. Duncan

Out at 13/9 on 53 TS% Duncan at the 10 spot.

naps
08-13-2015, 06:20 AM
AD. Are we not talking about next year? The guy already was insane this year including the playoff. Never understood why team success makes such a difference in ranking individuals. Where is the context? Can you imagine if the Pelicans were in the east? They could make it to the ECF and it really wouldn't be a shocker and all of a sudden AD is being considered as arguably the best player in the league. Isn't crazy? Antways, no one on this list should have a higher developmental projection for next year than AD. So this should be AD IMO as I find it very hard to make a case for anyone else over to he more impactful for his team.

kdspurman
08-13-2015, 09:04 AM
Went with CP3.

Chronz
08-13-2015, 10:14 AM
Can't vote on my phone but put me down for Curry.

Chronz
08-13-2015, 10:16 AM
LMAO @ people saying CP3>Curry

Cold hard truth: switch teams with cp3 and curry: warriors get knocked out by grizzlies and clippers win the ship.

CP3 is not a takeover the game type of player. He needs a SUPERSTAR beside him to win the championship. Don't give me the defense ********. Curry got it done and CP3 didn't even get past the 2nd round AGAIN with a player who put up 25/13/6 in the playoffs + Doc Rivers, DeAndre Jordan. Not impressed.


Anyway here's my top 10 :

1. LBJ
2. KD
3. Curry
4. AD
5. Harden
6. Westbrook
7. CP3
8. Griffin
9. Irving
10. Duncan
Lmao off at these cliches and nonsensical hypothetical

ManRam
08-13-2015, 12:14 PM
I think people have been a bit quick to hype Anthony Davis at times. I think his actual production has lagged slightly behind his public perception. But I think next year is the year he establishes himself as that super star and a top-3 player.

And, per the criteria which asks us to be more predictive than anything else, I'll vote for him. I think he makes that step and becomes that dominant two way player. No disrespect to Curry or an older CP3...or anyone else. But if I'm choosing a guy to win next year I think I'd go with him.

Hawkeye15
08-13-2015, 12:27 PM
Curry for me.

Minimal
08-13-2015, 12:43 PM
Curry is overrated AF

IKnowHoops
08-13-2015, 12:47 PM
AD. Are we not talking about next year? The guy already was insane this year including the playoff. Never understood why team success makes such a difference in ranking individuals. Where is the context? Can you imagine if the Pelicans were in the east? They could make it to the ECF and it really wouldn't be a shocker and all of a sudden AD is being considered as arguably the best player in the league. Isn't crazy? Antways, no one on this list should have a higher developmental projection for next year than AD. So this should be AD IMO as I find it very hard to make a case for anyone else over to he more impactful for his team.

This is where I'm at. If Im starting a team, I'm taking AD over Curry 7 days a week and twice on Sundays. AD put up crazy Drob stats. Im not taking Curry over Drob, or Hakeem, and AD is playing like those two. Between Durant and AD I can almost flip a coin right now. If I have Lebron on my Team, I'll take AD over KD. I dont think its close really. Curry is a beast, but IMO based on his stature, he can't effect the game like AD.

tredigs
08-13-2015, 12:48 PM
Oh good, I was going to put it up this morning. Thanks for expediting.


Curry is overrated AF

He's a monster dude. What about his game/impact feels overrated to you? Why do you think NBA players feel he is "the hardest player to guard in the NBA"?


This is where I'm at. If Im starting a team, I'm taking AD over Curry 7 days a week and twice on Sundays. AD put up crazy Drob stats. Im not taking Curry over Drob, or Hakeem, and AD is playing like those two. Between Durant and AD I can almost flip a coin right now. If I have Lebron on my Team, I'll take AD over KD. I dont think its close really. Curry is a beast, but IMO based on his stature, he can't effect the game like AD.

I'd argue - partly based on the Pels terrible D - that AD doesn't have massive impact defensively, and that Curry effects offense to a much, much larger degree than AD.

bucketss
08-13-2015, 01:05 PM
Anthony davis or curry very close for me.


stephen curry is the ultimate cheese lol.

Minimal
08-13-2015, 01:07 PM
He's a monster dude. What about his game/impact feels overrated to you? Why do you think NBA players feel he is "the hardest player to guard in the NBA"?
Hardest player to guard in the NBA for numerous years is LeBron James.
Defense is half of the game and Curry is one of the worst at it. He is a product of a great team and coaching, where players around him compliment him and greatly hide his weaknesses increasing his production.
Not saying Curry is bad or something, but he is not the 3rd best player in the NBA in my book.

Hawkeye15
08-13-2015, 01:11 PM
Hardest player to guard in the NBA for numerous years is LeBron James.
Defense is half of the game and Curry is one of the worst at it. He is a product of a great team and coaching, where players around him compliment him and greatly hide his weaknesses increasing his production.
Not saying Curry is bad or something, but he is not the 3rd best player in the NBA in my book.

Curry actually turned into a plus defender last year. GS was #1 in defense. He is the point of attack.

Curry is absolutely in the elite tier of players. The greatest shooter of all time, who can also create off the dribble, distribute, run an offense, and is for sure a plus defender starting last year.

Hawkeye15
08-13-2015, 01:12 PM
I have fought for Nash as the greatest shooter of all time, but after watching Curry more and more, he is it. I have never seen someone get shots off in such a short window, that no player in history would shoot, and I am actually surprised when they don't go in.

Minimal
08-13-2015, 01:28 PM
Curry actually turned into a plus defender last year. GS was #1 in defense. He is the point of attack.

Curry is absolutely in the elite tier of players. The greatest shooter of all time, who can also create off the dribble, distribute, run an offense, and is for sure a plus defender starting last year.
Curry is 12th on his team in Defensive Box Plus/Minus at only 0.3, thats playing on the best defensive team in NBA, he is at zero, while guys like Westbrook or Davis are first on their respected teams. Curry is a bad defender and always has been.

tredigs
08-13-2015, 01:29 PM
Hardest player to guard in the NBA for numerous years is LeBron James.
Defense is half of the game and Curry is one of the worst at it. He is a product of a great team and coaching, where players around him compliment him and greatly hide his weaknesses increasing his production.
Not saying Curry is bad or something, but he is not the 3rd best player in the NBA in my book.

I don't agree with that at all. He requires nowhere near the double+ teams that Curry does, and is by and large left open outside of 18 feet. He's also far less of a threat to have to chase around screens and tire defenses out. The stats and eye test back up Curry as being a tougher guard, but my comment was simply echoing that NBA players vote. Also, it was KD 2 years ago, not Lebron. There's no doubt that he puts immense pressure on D's as well, but anytime you can simply sag off defensively and ask your opponent to shoot, almost by definition he's an easier guard than somebody who you can't leave alone in the half court at virtually any distance (who also has better handles/separation ability to boot).


Curry is 12th on his team in Defensive Box Plus/Minus at only 0.3, thats playing on the best defensive team in NBA, he is at zero, while guys like Westbrook or Davis are first on their respected teams. Curry is a bad defender.
And yet, a plus defender. His DRPM is 1.91, ranks only behind Rubio (just ahead of Wall/Bledsoe/Lowry/Smart). His Offensive Box +/- was the 2nd best of this decade only behind Lebron in 09.

Hawkeye15
08-13-2015, 01:39 PM
I don't agree with that at all. He requires nowhere near the double+ teams that Curry does, and is by and large left open outside of 18 feet. He's also far less of a threat to have to chase around screens and tire defenses out. The stats and eye test back up Curry as being a tougher guard, but my comment was simply echoing that NBA players vote. Also, it was KD 2 years ago, not Lebron. There's no doubt that he puts immense pressure on D's as well, but anytime you can simply sag off defensively and ask your opponent to shoot, almost by definition he's an easier guard than somebody who you can't leave alone in the half court at virtually any distance (who also has better handles/separation ability to boot).


And yet, a plus defender. His DRPM is 1.91, ranks only behind Rubio (just ahead of Wall/Bledsoe/Lowry/Smart). His Offensive Box +/- was the 2nd best of this decade only behind Lebron in 09.

It's funny watching teams try and rotate while he is going around picks. They will literally give ANYONE else an open look from anywhere, versus a 26 footer off the dribble to Curry haha. I have watched basketball for 30 years now, and I have never seen a guy with that much range that needs just a nanosecond of a window to launch it.

Scoots
08-13-2015, 03:06 PM
This is where I'm at. If Im starting a team, I'm taking AD over Curry 7 days a week and twice on Sundays. AD put up crazy Drob stats. Im not taking Curry over Drob, or Hakeem, and AD is playing like those two. Between Durant and AD I can almost flip a coin right now. If I have Lebron on my Team, I'll take AD over KD. I dont think its close really. Curry is a beast, but IMO based on his stature, he can't effect the game like AD.

If I'm starting a team I take AD over every player in the NBA, but that wasn't the task ... it was taking players for winning next year. At least that was my take on it, and if I am doing that I start with LeBron, then Curry, then Durant (assuming 100% health), then AD. I guess it doesn't matter what order as long as you end up with those 4 and LeBron is willing to play the 4 :)

bucketss
08-13-2015, 03:21 PM
btw durant just said hes the best player in the world. wonder if he gets same backlash as lebron.

JAZZNC
08-13-2015, 03:50 PM
Curry for all the reasons stated already. Please add my vote for Curry to the poll.

nastynice
08-13-2015, 04:03 PM
chef curry cookin up that hot ****!!

da ThRONe
08-13-2015, 04:06 PM
AD. Are we not talking about next year? The guy already was insane this year including the playoff. Never understood why team success makes such a difference in ranking individuals. Where is the context? Can you imagine if the Pelicans were in the east? They could make it to the ECF and it really wouldn't be a shocker and all of a sudden AD is being considered as arguably the best player in the league. Isn't crazy? Antways, no one on this list should have a higher developmental projection for next year than AD. So this should be AD IMO as I find it very hard to make a case for anyone else over to he more impactful for his team.

As it been said when Davis missed time the team win loss record barely changed. We have a quality team. Davis is an efficiency monster, however his skillset as of now isn't on par with some other players. James Harden played in the West yet they finished second and they dealt with as many if not more injuries as my Pelicans. Win loss matter in basketball more than any sport because one player has the largest impact than any other sport. So when you on court presence doesn't move the needle much especially without another big time star player(is Howard with Harden over Griffin with Paul) that's is a much more accurate test of a players overall ability more than raw and advance stats.

Scoots
08-13-2015, 04:59 PM
btw durant just said hes the best player in the world. wonder if he gets same backlash as lebron.

He still plays in OKC, nobody will care.

mngopher35
08-13-2015, 05:22 PM
I think Curry gets the slight nod over Cp3 and Davis for me. Davis will be the best player in the league at some point I would guess, but he isn't quite on that level now. His impact defensively is improving but still not at an elite level and I don't think he is good enough to run an offense yet like the other two.

Paul is better defensively than Curry and Curry is better offensively imo. Curry has gotten to the point where he can completely change a teams game plan and if you give him any room he will hit it, if you don't he finds the open man. Paul can certainly run an offense but I am not sure he affects the defense in quite the same way. When it comes down to it a little better defense from a point guard isn't as important as Curry's offensive impact imo.

RLundi
08-13-2015, 05:25 PM
I'll take LeBron here.

1. Durant
2. Curry
3. LeBron
4. AD
5. Harden

If this thread is about the best player MOVING FORWARD and not last year or a lifetime achievement award, doesn't it make sense to (reasonably) take players who are already good and young in hopes and expectations that they'll improve even more? Durant and Curry will probably continue to improve while LeBron at the very best will level off. I'd slot AD ahead of LBJ but I'm not yet convinced he's as dominant as people are making him out to be, again, YET.

Scoots
08-13-2015, 07:05 PM
I'll take LeBron here.

1. Durant
2. Curry
3. LeBron
4. AD
5. Harden

If this thread is about the best player MOVING FORWARD and not last year or a lifetime achievement award, doesn't it make sense to (reasonably) take players who are already good and young in hopes and expectations that they'll improve even more? Durant and Curry will probably continue to improve while LeBron at the very best will level off. I'd slot AD ahead of LBJ but I'm not yet convinced he's as dominant as people are making him out to be, again, YET.

I think the point is about next year ONLY. So who is the 3rd best player (projecting next year) for a one year deal if all of the players in the NBA were unrestricted free agents.

Shammyguy3
08-13-2015, 07:24 PM
Oh good, I was going to put it up this morning. Thanks for expediting.

np, i can continue posting the threads if you want me to, or you can take it back over. Your call amigo


I think the point is about next year ONLY. So who is the 3rd best player (projecting next year) for a one year deal if all of the players in the NBA were unrestricted free agents.

it's actually about who you would pick right now as the X best player in the league, whether you yourself want to project that to next year or dock a player for aging next year is ultimately your choice

Shammyguy3
08-13-2015, 07:27 PM
Like others have said, the impact that Curry has with his shooting, passing, especially in the pick & roll game, is so profound offensively that even though he isn't the defender that Chris Paul is he must be better than him in the end. Imagine how effective the pick & roll game would be if Curry had Blake next to him? It would be even more difficult to defend than it is with CP3.

CP3's great, he was perhaps the best, second best, or third best player in the game at multiple points in his career for sure (at least in my opinion). But, the talent at the top of the league is crazy right now with Lebron, Durant, Curry, Davis, CP3, Westbrook, Griffin, Harden, etc so it's not a slight to him at all

EDUTEXANS
08-13-2015, 07:34 PM
In my opinion this is between Curry, Harden and Paul. And those are my answears, in this order, for the next three.

People focus on what Davis can develop into, rather than what he is right now. He definitely can become the 3rd or even 2nd best player by the end of the season. Hell, he can be the best. But this is based on a projection that he'll get better. And even though it's almost a safe projection, right now he's not quite there with the other three. And Curry and Harden are also really young and still developing.

So, Curry, Harden or Paul. Hard to argue against Curry after the season he had, but Harden had an MVP-worthy season, as well. To me, it's almost a coin flip. I'd love to know how would Curry do with that Rockets' team from last season and what Harden would have done with the Warriors. Anyway, I'm going with the MVP here.

I love Paul, and in the Playoffs, he really showed that he can take over a game, but it was not enough to beat Houston. With that said, I can chose him over Curry and Harden. I also think his defense is really overrated. Not his defense, but the fact that he plays good defense. Do people really think defense means "half" of the game? Come on.

EDUTEXANS
08-13-2015, 07:41 PM
I think the point is about next year ONLY. So who is the 3rd best player (projecting next year) for a one year deal if all of the players in the NBA were unrestricted free agents.

I think the point is about right now, period. No projections. Just who is better now, like NBA 2K ratings or something like that. Wasn't it like that in previous years?

KnicksorBust
08-13-2015, 07:52 PM
I don't agree with that at all. He requires nowhere near the double+ teams that Curry does, and is by and large left open outside of 18 feet. He's also far less of a threat to have to chase around screens and tire defenses out. The stats and eye test back up Curry as being a tougher guard, but my comment was simply echoing that NBA players vote. Also, it was KD 2 years ago, not Lebron. There's no doubt that he puts immense pressure on D's as well, but anytime you can simply sag off defensively and ask your opponent to shoot, almost by definition he's an easier guard than somebody who you can't leave alone in the half court at virtually any distance (who also has better handles/separation ability to boot).


And yet, a plus defender. His DRPM is 1.91, ranks only behind Rubio (just ahead of Wall/Bledsoe/Lowry/Smart). His Offensive Box +/- was the 2nd best of this decade only behind Lebron in 09.

It's funny watching teams try and rotate while he is going around picks. They will literally give ANYONE else an open look from anywhere, versus a 26 footer off the dribble to Curry haha. I have watched basketball for 30 years now, and I have never seen a guy with that much range that needs just a nanosecond of a window to launch it.

These two posts. My favorite play of the finals was Lebron (the "best player in the world") was guarding Iggy in transition. Iguodala actually HAD THE BALL IN HIS HANDS and Lebron left him to go double team Curry spotting up for 3. Iggy just drove right in for an easy layup. THAT can't be measured in a box score but demonstrates exactly how much of a threat Curry is at all times.

Tony_Starks
08-13-2015, 08:03 PM
btw durant just said hes the best player in the world. wonder if he gets same backlash as lebron.

Did he say it and then proceed to take a huge L?

Tony_Starks
08-13-2015, 08:04 PM
The amount of disrespect our current Most Valuable Player of the league is getting is disturbing.

Hardaway Here
08-13-2015, 08:31 PM
No shade or disrespect towards Curry but this is a toss up for me between him CP3, and AD. I don't feel fully comfortable saying he is the 3rd best with those two still in question. I'll wait and see how this season plays out for clarification.

Scoots
08-13-2015, 08:39 PM
I think the point is about right now, period. No projections. Just who is better now, like NBA 2K ratings or something like that. Wasn't it like that in previous years?

And yet Durant was voted #2 despite having not played a lot of games last season. That's projecting him to be 100% healthy ... so clearly some projecting is going on.

EDUTEXANS
08-13-2015, 08:57 PM
And yet Durant was voted #2 despite having not played a lot of games last season. That's projecting him to be 100% healthy ... so clearly some projecting is going on.

But that's different. And again, it's not something for next season. It's for now. I voted Durant for 2nd. He's the second better player in the league, in my opinion. That's it.

He might not ever be the same player he used to be, but that only depends on his recovery. Projecting Davis to be better than players who were better last season depends on not only Davis development, but everybody else's, as well.

nastynice
08-13-2015, 09:51 PM
The amount of disrespect our current Most Valuable Player of the league is getting is disturbing.

I wouldn't call it disrespect. He's got half the votes, and honestly cp3 and Harden and even AD, are also in that 2nd tier behind top tier lebron and KD (probably griffin, westbrook and gasol too). I always expect some kinda interchangable between players in the same tier, if clips won the chip then cp3 would probably have more votes, if rox won then harden would.

AD's almost wildcardish, he's so young and so good, his potential is SO high and sound, it makes sense why people can't help but factor in what kind of monster we all think he's going to turn into very soon here.

KnicksorBust
08-13-2015, 09:54 PM
The amount of disrespect our current Most Valuable Player of the league is getting is disturbing.

I wouldn't call it disrespect. He's got half the votes, and honestly cp3 and Harden and even AD, these guys plus Curry probably make the 4 players in that 2nd tier behind top tier lebron and KD. I always expect some kinda interchangable between players in the same tier, if clips won the chip then cp3 would probably have more votes, if rox won then harden would.

AD's almost wildcardish, he's so young and so good, his potential is SO high and sound, it makes sense why people can't help but factor in what kind of monster we all think he's going to turn into very soon here.

LOL in a reply saying how it is not disrespect you disrespect him yourself and leave him out of your top tier despite the fact that he is the MVP and his team won the title. What a joke.

Tony_Starks
08-13-2015, 10:11 PM
The amount of disrespect our current Most Valuable Player of the league is getting is disturbing.

I wouldn't call it disrespect. He's got half the votes, and honestly cp3 and Harden and even AD, are also in that 2nd tier behind top tier lebron and KD (probably griffin, westbrook and gasol too). I always expect some kinda interchangable between players in the same tier, if clips won the chip then cp3 would probably have more votes, if rox won then harden would.

AD's almost wildcardish, he's so young and so good, his potential is SO high and sound, it makes sense why people can't help but factor in what kind of monster we all think he's going to turn into very soon here.


If there is a tier higher than Steph Curry I have never seen it. This guy is as good as it gets, I'm really not sure what else he has to do to prove how great he is.

It's possible to have a great supporting cast AND still be the best player in the game, in fact that's exactly how championships happen.

Scoots
08-13-2015, 10:24 PM
But that's different. And again, it's not something for next season. It's for now. I voted Durant for 2nd. He's the second better player in the league, in my opinion. That's it.

He might not ever be the same player he used to be, but that only depends on his recovery. Projecting Davis to be better than players who were better last season depends on not only Davis development, but everybody else's, as well.

But based on NOW Durant is out because he's missed all of his teams recent games until NOW. To put him #2 you are PROJECTING that he will be both healthy, and not have lost anything from 2 years ago.

EDUTEXANS
08-13-2015, 10:59 PM
But based on NOW Durant is out because he's missed all of his teams recent games until NOW. To put him #2 you are PROJECTING that he will be both healthy, and not have lost anything from 2 years ago.

Fine, but it's a different projection. He has already developed into the player we're voting for, and we know how good he can be, because he has already been that.

Plus, he has said he's 100% and still put up 25, 6 and 4 on great efficiency last season, but in a limited number of games, of course.

da ThRONe
08-13-2015, 11:22 PM
If there is a tier higher than Steph Curry I have never seen it. This guy is as good as it gets, I'm really not sure what else he has to do to prove how great he is.

It's possible to have a great supporting cast AND still be the best player in the game, in fact that's exactly how championships happen.

I still think LeBron is in a tier of his own. But Durant and Curry are right below that. Then it's everybody else. I would say Paul, Griffin, Westbrook and Harden are all in the third tier.

mrblisterdundee
08-13-2015, 11:24 PM
1. LeBron James
2. Stephen Curry
3. James Harden
4. Anthony Davis
5. Kevin Durant
6. Chris Paul
7. Russell Westbrook
8. DeMarcus Cousins
9. Blake Griffin
10. LaMarcus Aldridge

I'm going to let Durant earn his spot, after two foot surgeries and only playing 27 games last season. Injuries can ruin any great player ask Penny Hardaway, Tray McGrady, Grant Hill, Yao Ming and plenty of others. Durant and Paul George will be interesting cases to watch.

Scoots
08-14-2015, 12:35 AM
People were putting Paul George in the top 4 last off-season before he got hurt ... if KD is still where he was despite his injury shouldn't PG be too?

nastynice
08-14-2015, 02:38 AM
LOL in a reply saying how it is not disrespect you disrespect him yourself and leave him out of your top tier despite the fact that he is the MVP and his team won the title. What a joke.


If there is a tier higher than Steph Curry I have never seen it. This guy is as good as it gets, I'm really not sure what else he has to do to prove how great he is.

It's possible to have a great supporting cast AND still be the best player in the game, in fact that's exactly how championships happen.

I think lebron and kd are still clearly above him. Now if steph does what he did this year for 2 more years then we can start talking about him being right there with those other two. Hell, if harden does what he did this year for 2 more years maybe we can also talk about him being there too. I think HOW LONG a player's been doing it play a factor here too, the post above me perfectly illustrates that with paul george. He started playing great but then got hurt, and now he's not found in anyone's top 10. KD got hurt and he's still at ranked here as #2. Its because KD played elite for quite a while, paul george didn't, so that factors in.

Look at blake griffin, two years ago imo he started to establish himself as the 3rd best player in the league, but he didn't continue with that and now he's kinda losing some of that status that he gained.

Look at lebron, he took the first half of the season off, yet still a consensus top tier player. If curry took the first half of the season off then almost no one would have him as an mvp candidate. Again, its cuz lebron's BEEN doing it, Curry hasn't. He's been GREAT, but this was really his first year as truly elite level player. If he keeps it up tho then he can start establishing himself as "best player in the league", or something to that degree.

Curry's my boy, I think he 100% deserved mvp, but there have been many mvps whom I wouldn't label as best player in the league throughout the years. I'm a dubs fan thru n thru, but maybe we just view this topic differently...

Gander13SM
08-14-2015, 04:07 AM
Curry has to do what for multiple years? Win a championship? The thing Durant has yet to do?

Logical.

Personally I still think KD is marginally better than Steph but it has little to do with accolades although they factor in somewhat.

And it's nothing to do with longevity because Curry has been doing this for the last three seasons. His improvement was on the defensive end. His offense has been at this level for a while now.

It's almost as if people liked him better when he was the plucky underdog vs Denver and San Antonio. The little guy coming back from injuries and catching fire in third quarters. For whatever reason. The more success a player has, the more "haters" they seem to get. The more success a player has, the more scrutinised he becomes.

It reminds me of the Clippers situation. CP3 is labelled as a choker. And yet everyone admires KD.. For what? Making it to the finals once with the supporting cast of James Harden, Russel Westbrook and Serge Ibaka? For not making it back there ever since? If KD was LeBron he would be getting a bunch of "ring" memes directed at him. But because his success is limited he doesn't seem to receive the same scrutiny. It's strange.

Regardless, I still say it's LBJ, KD, Steph, Harden, CP3, Davis, Leonard, Gasol, PG and Cousins.

LBJ and KD are interchangeable depending on how you value accolades. Steph and KD are interchangeable depending on how you view the league in the sense of "what have you done for me lately". The talent gap between Curry and KD is minimal although personally I think KD edges it. After that you can put the rest in any order you want.

But that's just my 2 cents.

Gander13SM
08-14-2015, 04:20 AM
I'm also concerned by the fact that when making the poll Kawhi Leonard was left off and would be in the "others" category.

When was the last time a player was named All-Defensive second team, All-Defensive first team, Defensive Player of the Year, Finals MVP and won an NBA Championship within a two year span.... and wasn't a top 10 player in the league?

As I've said. People value accolades differently. But the talent he has is undeniable. There is maybe one player who is more versatile defensively (Draymond) but I don't think there's anyone clear cut better defensively. He has improved his offense a lot and he's still so damn young (24). What he's achieved in his first four years is staggering.

Is it the Spurs effect? People don't watch because they think their system is boring? People think Kawhi is somehow a product of the system?

I don't quite understand it.

Minimal
08-14-2015, 07:16 AM
People were putting Paul George in the top 4 last off-season before he got hurt ... if KD is still where he was despite his injury shouldn't PG be too?
Are you joking? Who put him in top 4? I believe he was always in 10-15 tier on most lists. His best seasons PER was 20.1.
He was basically this seasons Jimmy Butler. Both won Most Improved Player award, made big strides, but didn't reach top 5 tier thats for sure.

da ThRONe
08-14-2015, 08:45 AM
Curry has to do what for multiple years? Win a championship? The thing Durant has yet to do?

Logical.

Personally I still think KD is marginally better than Steph but it has little to do with accolades although they factor in somewhat.

And it's nothing to do with longevity because Curry has been doing this for the last three seasons. His improvement was on the defensive end. His offense has been at this level for a while now.

It's almost as if people liked him better when he was the plucky underdog vs Denver and San Antonio. The little guy coming back from injuries and catching fire in third quarters. For whatever reason. The more success a player has, the more "haters" they seem to get. The more success a player has, the more scrutinised he becomes.

It reminds me of the Clippers situation. CP3 is labelled as a choker. And yet everyone admires KD.. For what? Making it to the finals once with the supporting cast of James Harden, Russel Westbrook and Serge Ibaka? For not making it back there ever since? If KD was LeBron he would be getting a bunch of "ring" memes directed at him. But because his success is limited he doesn't seem to receive the same scrutiny. It's strange.

Regardless, I still say it's LBJ, KD, Steph, Harden, CP3, Davis, Leonard, Gasol, PG and Cousins.

LBJ and KD are interchangeable depending on how you value accolades. Steph and KD are interchangeable depending on how you view the league in the sense of "what have you done for me lately". The talent gap between Curry and KD is minimal although personally I think KD edges it. After that you can put the rest in any order you want.

But that's just my 2 cents.

I would replace Davis with Griffin, replace George with Westbrook, and swap Gasol with Cousins.

James
Durant
Curry
Griffin
Paul
Westbrook
Harden
Cousins
Leonard
Gasol

Gander13SM
08-14-2015, 09:11 AM
I would replace Davis with Griffin, replace George with Westbrook, and swap Gasol with Cousins.

James
Durant
Curry
Griffin
Paul
Westbrook
Harden
Cousins
Leonard
Gasol

I don't think Westbrook is a top 10 player. He's a top 5 point guard but not a top 10 player IMO. People are getting carried away because he put up some horribly inefficient triple doubles while losing games.

He's an athletic monster and terrible decision maker. Some nights he looks like he's going to be one of the greats. Other nights he looks like a smaller version of Javale McGee. It's this Jekyll and Hyde scenario that prevents me from putting him in the top 10.

You might be right about Griffin.

Each to their own I suppose.

Minimal
08-14-2015, 09:49 AM
I don't think Westbrook is a top 10 player. He's a top 5 point guard but not a top 10 player IMO. People are getting carried away because he put up some horribly inefficient triple doubles while losing games.

He's an athletic monster and terrible decision maker. Some nights he looks like he's going to be one of the greats. Other nights he looks like a smaller version of Javale McGee. It's this Jekyll and Hyde scenario that prevents me from putting him in the top 10.

You might be right about Griffin.

Each to their own I suppose.
/facepalm

Gander13SM
08-14-2015, 11:55 AM
/facepalm

Your insight is staggering. I've never met someone with wit of this level. I'm not sure I can even comprehend this exquisite counter argument. Thank you for enlightening me and putting forth such a thrilling and well thought out post. I shall cherish this memory forever more.

And I beg your pardon but unfortunately I must now leave this topic, never to return. Perhaps our paths will cross again and you can bestow upon me more knowledge. I would greatly appreciate that.

Thank you.

Scoots
08-14-2015, 12:11 PM
When was the last time a player was named All-Defensive second team, All-Defensive first team, Defensive Player of the Year, Finals MVP and won an NBA Championship within a two year span.... and wasn't a top 10 player in the league?

It's not QUITE the same but Iguodala was all-defensive first team and finals MVP and does not belong on the top 10 list.

Minimal
08-14-2015, 12:13 PM
Your insight is staggering. I've never met someone with wit of this level. I'm not sure I can even comprehend this exquisite counter argument. Thank you for enlightening me and putting forth such a thrilling and well thought out post. I shall cherish this memory forever more.

And I beg your pardon but unfortunately I must now leave this topic, never to return. Perhaps our paths will cross again and you can bestow upon me more knowledge. I would greatly appreciate that.

Thank you.
Of course, Your Grace.

Hawkeye15
08-14-2015, 12:23 PM
I'm also concerned by the fact that when making the poll Kawhi Leonard was left off and would be in the "others" category.

When was the last time a player was named All-Defensive second team, All-Defensive first team, Defensive Player of the Year, Finals MVP and won an NBA Championship within a two year span.... and wasn't a top 10 player in the league?

As I've said. People value accolades differently. But the talent he has is undeniable. There is maybe one player who is more versatile defensively (Draymond) but I don't think there's anyone clear cut better defensively. He has improved his offense a lot and he's still so damn young (24). What he's achieved in his first four years is staggering.

Is it the Spurs effect? People don't watch because they think their system is boring? People think Kawhi is somehow a product of the system?

I don't quite understand it.

Leonard hasn't shown he can be a #1 guy at all though. He is a great talent, but can he be the #1 guy on a contending team? His Finals MVP was basically a team award. His advanced numbers put him well outside the top 10, but if we then factor in defense, he starts inching closer to it again.

He is a tough player to gauge, because we haven't seen him shoulder the level of responsibility that a lot of guys do, so he is tough to place.

I personally wouldn't say he is a top 10 player in the league. Top 20 for sure. I would have to think about it more to really place him.

tredigs
08-14-2015, 12:33 PM
I was going to leave it as CP3/Westbrook/Curry/AD/Griffin/Harden until the #5 vote, then add DMC, Gasol and Kawhi at that point. No point in adding a player who will not receive a vote. I do consider Kawhi a borderline top 10 player, though. He's not a top 15 offensive player and couldn't be the #1 on a title winning team (barring the perfect build), but he's top 3 defensively and overall an incredible talent. He rates just outside the top 10 in PER, WS/48 and VORP. And top 10 in BPM/RPM.

Gander13SM
08-14-2015, 01:13 PM
Leonard hasn't shown he can be a #1 guy at all though. He is a great talent, but can he be the #1 guy on a contending team? His Finals MVP was basically a team award. His advanced numbers put him well outside the top 10, but if we then factor in defense, he starts inching closer to it again.

He is a tough player to gauge, because we haven't seen him shoulder the level of responsibility that a lot of guys do, so he is tough to place.

I personally wouldn't say he is a top 10 player in the league. Top 20 for sure. I would have to think about it more to really place him.

I can see your point and I agree he's not a first option on offense. But he's still a solid offensive player. He's well rounded on that side. And he's easily a top 3 defender in the league. If not the best.

I guess it depends on what you value. For me, a guy doesn't need to be a number one option on offense to be a top 10 player of the time. I would've gladly argued Ben Wallace as a top 10 player during his prime years or Bobby Jones. And people can't be putting Marc Gasol on these lists if it's scoring they're interested in. I would say that Kawhis impact defensively is equal to or greater than the offense of the guys who are going to end up 7th, 8th, 9th etc.

But again, each to their own.

mngopher35
08-14-2015, 01:13 PM
I was going to leave it as CP3/Westbrook/Curry/AD/Griffin/Harden until the #5 vote, then add DMC, Gasol and Kawhi at that point. No point in adding a player who will not receive a vote. I do consider Kawhi a borderline top 10 player, though. He's not a top 15 offensive player and couldn't be the #1 on a title winning team (barring the perfect build), but he's top 3 defensively and overall an incredible talent. He rates just outside the top 10 in PER, WS/48 and VORP. And top 10 in BPM/RPM.

I would suggest adding Butler (and maybe PG) at the same time, I think Butler has an argument with Kawhi. Not important until later but I think that they are pretty close based on Butlers improvements last season (may not be enough but still close).

Tony_Starks
08-14-2015, 01:21 PM
Putting Lebron in "another tier" after watching him take a 2week vacay during the season and lose some explosiveness tells me you're truly in your sentimental feelings.

It's the equivalent of voting for George Bush next election.....

Hawkeye15
08-14-2015, 01:30 PM
I can see your point and I agree he's not a first option on offense. But he's still a solid offensive player. He's well rounded on that side. And he's easily a top 3 defender in the league. If not the best.

I guess it depends on what you value. For me, a guy doesn't need to be a number one option on offense to be a top 10 player of the time. I would've gladly argued Ben Wallace as a top 10 player during his prime years or Bobby Jones. And people can't be putting Marc Gasol on these lists if it's scoring they're interested in. I would say that Kawhis impact defensively is equal to or greater than the offense of the guys who are going to end up 7th, 8th, 9th etc.

But again, each to their own.

yep, and I can see your points. I tend to value guys who can take on that burden of high usage and responsibility, and still produce the most efficient numbers. Most players, as their usage rises, the efficiency suffers. Leonard's strengths are all on display, but his weaknesses are not, because he is in a perfect system to do so. Wallace ties directly into this example too. Are you really ranking Wallace a top 10 player if he is with Orlando those years? His game, is not one that will elevate a team from 21 wins, to 45 wins. He is the PERFECT clinching piece to a team, but depending on the makeup of the team, he doesn't instantly make a team drastically better.

LeBron/Durant/Harden/Curry, etc, those guys probably do. It's why I have a tough time ranking guys like KL, or Wallace. Are they good? Oh yeah, they are awesome. But I don't know where they belong in the hierarchy of the league. Like, you need a guy like them to win it all, but you need a LeBron, or Curry more.

Ebbs
08-14-2015, 01:36 PM
AD > Steph

Scoots
08-14-2015, 04:08 PM
AD > Steph

AD taller than Steph :)

Turner
08-14-2015, 04:54 PM
Other (Paul George)

Gander13SM
08-14-2015, 05:08 PM
yep, and I can see your points. I tend to value guys who can take on that burden of high usage and responsibility, and still produce the most efficient numbers. Most players, as their usage rises, the efficiency suffers. Leonard's strengths are all on display, but his weaknesses are not, because he is in a perfect system to do so. Wallace ties directly into this example too. Are you really ranking Wallace a top 10 player if he is with Orlando those years? His game, is not one that will elevate a team from 21 wins, to 45 wins. He is the PERFECT clinching piece to a team, but depending on the makeup of the team, he doesn't instantly make a team drastically better.

LeBron/Durant/Harden/Curry, etc, those guys probably do. It's why I have a tough time ranking guys like KL, or Wallace. Are they good? Oh yeah, they are awesome. But I don't know where they belong in the hierarchy of the league. Like, you need a guy like them to win it all, but you need a LeBron, or Curry more.

I see the logic in what you're saying I'm just not in complete agreement with you.

If you need to be able to handle the bulk of your teams offense to be a top 10 player. Then we should be replacing Marc Gasol with Carmelo Anthony. IMO

nastynice
08-14-2015, 05:42 PM
Curry has to do what for multiple years? Win a championship? The thing Durant has yet to do?

Logical.

Personally I still think KD is marginally better than Steph but it has little to do with accolades although they factor in somewhat.

And it's nothing to do with longevity because Curry has been doing this for the last three seasons. His improvement was on the defensive end. His offense has been at this level for a while now.

It's almost as if people liked him better when he was the plucky underdog vs Denver and San Antonio. The little guy coming back from injuries and catching fire in third quarters. For whatever reason. The more success a player has, the more "haters" they seem to get. The more success a player has, the more scrutinised he becomes.

It reminds me of the Clippers situation. CP3 is labelled as a choker. And yet everyone admires KD.. For what? Making it to the finals once with the supporting cast of James Harden, Russel Westbrook and Serge Ibaka? For not making it back there ever since? If KD was LeBron he would be getting a bunch of "ring" memes directed at him. But because his success is limited he doesn't seem to receive the same scrutiny. It's strange.

Regardless, I still say it's LBJ, KD, Steph, Harden, CP3, Davis, Leonard, Gasol, PG and Cousins.

LBJ and KD are interchangeable depending on how you value accolades. Steph and KD are interchangeable depending on how you view the league in the sense of "what have you done for me lately". The talent gap between Curry and KD is minimal although personally I think KD edges it. After that you can put the rest in any order you want.

But that's just my 2 cents.

Curry had to play at an elite level for multiple years, you really didn't get that from my post?

I'm not "hating" on Curry, look at my sig, why would I hate on my own favorite player? He was only elite last year, before that he was damn good by not elite. And how could you say his offense hasn't improved, he's way better at creating, less turnovers, and better at getting to the rim. His game has been improving big time, and hopefully still will

Gander13SM
08-14-2015, 05:46 PM
Curry had to play at an elite level for multiple years, you really didn't get that from my post?

I'm not "hating" on Curry, look at my sig, why would I hate on my own favorite player? He was only elite last year, before that he was damn good by not elite. And how could you say his offense hasn't improved, he's way better at creating, less turnovers, and better at getting to the rim. His game has been improving big time, and hopefully still will

He's always been this good offensively. He's always had the court vision to make the passes he's making. He's always had that nice little floater and the soft touch around the rim for finishing. Everything he's doing now on offense he's always done. He's sharpened his skill set but it's always been there. What's really changed is the system which has helped amplify his strengths.

FlashBolt
08-15-2015, 02:55 AM
I went with James Harden. Don't yell at me but I just think Curry's team was just better than the respective teammates of the players on the list. That's not a knock on Curry but I want to see what this team does in a healthy season (let's face it, this season crippled many teams; mine was hurt the most), and when you look at every team the GSW faced in the playoffs, even more injuries across the board.

tredigs
08-15-2015, 03:32 AM
I think Harden's a great choice who isn't getting enough love. I'm a Warrior fan but I can see an argument for Curry at #1 , 2 3 or 4.

FlashBolt
08-15-2015, 03:44 AM
I think Harden's a great choice who isn't getting enough love. I'm a Warrior fan but I can see an argument for Curry at #1 , 2 3 or 4.

Top Five has never been closer in my opinion. We saw that gap when LeBron was way over KD, then KD caught up and it was 1a/1b. Now it's pretty much up for grabs. I can easily see any top five list changing over the season.

James
KD
Harden
Curry
Davis

Would be interesting to see Davis's progression. He had a great season but I feel he's being way too overrated here. Him making the playoffs was a nice accomplishment but in reality, that would have gone to Dallas (with OKC being in top 4 seed).

Just checked the poll, curious to see why some people are choosing CP over Harden. Certainly a plausible choice but wow, would have expected Harden to have more than three votes.